Rewarding talent
UPDATE: Bit more re the reshuffle. As with Linda Fabiani, the new Culture Minister Mike Russell works from within the office of the first minister, alongside Bruce Crawford.
But Mr Russell, a former SNP chief executive, will have a key new responsibility: for the constitution.
As such, he'll prepare the submission to the Calman Commission on borrowing powers for Holyrood. And he'll lay the path to the proposed referendum on independence next year.
When he was party chief exec, Mr Russell was the number one lieutenant to Alex Salmond in his first incarnation as SNP leader.
Together, they devised and pursued party strategy.
Now he's back in that role - but, this time, inside government. As one observer commented, Mike Russell makes his best contributions when he's placed right at the core of decision making.
- - - - - - - - - -
An intriguing reshuffle at Holyrood - although not one that laps upon the shores of the cabinet.
Three ministers outwith cabinet have been sacked: Culture Minister Linda Fabiani, Schools Minister Maureen Watt and Communities and Sports Minister Stewart Maxwell.
Each was thought to have faced difficulties, either generally or with particular issues: Creative Scotland in the case of Ms Fabiani and SportScotland in the case of Mr Maxwell.
So far, no particular intrigue. But look at their replacements: Mike Russell at culture; Roseanna Cunningham replacing him at environment; Keith Brown at schools and Alex Neil at communities.
Alex Salmond says this represents "fresh talent". Few would dispute the word talent - and they are "fresh" in that three of them have no ministerial experience.
But, with the exception of Mr Brown who has performed with diligence at Holyrood, these are scarcely untested politicians. To the contrary, they are big names with a hinterland of their own in the SNP.
Indeed, both Mike Russell and Roseanna Cunningham contested the leadership against Mr Salmond.
Further, Alex Neil was in the past a critic of the strategy of the SNP under Mr Salmond and John Swinney. I stress, "in the past".
He has been notably, indeed virulently, loyal in more recent years, firmly backing the government from the back benches.
It would appear that any residual disquiet over his colleagues in the mind of the FM has vanished or at least subsided to the extent of bringing them inside the team and/or promoting them.
Partly, he is rewarding palpable talent. Partly, he may be following the doctrine of LBJ regarding the positioning of your potential critics vis a vis your canvas accommodation.
Removing the tongue from my cheek, I should add that each of the three is intelligent, thoughtful, vocally skilled and open to ideas: not universal characteristics in politics.
Indeed, as a junior minister, Mike Russell has frequently been tipped for cabinet rank in future.
They all deserve their promotion. My congratulations to them. Condolences to the departing three.
I'm 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~59~RS~)
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What a disappointment. Reading that headline, I thought we were finally going to see the back of Jacqui Smith ... and Hazel Blears ... and Ed Balls ... and Alastair Darling ...
Instead, it's just inconsequential happenings in faraway places.
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My thinking is it MIGHT include Cabinet level changes. Well one. Depending if Salmond is in a particularly blood-thirsty mood!
http://malcintheburgh.blogspot.com/2009/02/ministerial-roundabout.html
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I wonder how quickly the SNP bloggers will be posting praises of Mr Salmond's leadership and how this reshuffle shows how brilliant the SNP is?
Reshuffles are a usual part of politics and I hope that the debate will focus on the details of why the individuals are changing rather than the usual SNP bloggers' spin.
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As we wait for news of the reshuffle may I bring your attention to the latest news concerning '' The Angel Of The South''.
The horse which is 33 times larger than life, costing 2 million pounds (estimated) is to be erected in Kent. One can only hope that the rear end points to the west by north west, the direction of Westminster.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/7880889.stm
Wansanshoo
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Okay... well wrong. Really a minor shuffle then. Some strength coming in in the shape of Alex and Roseanna though.
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Wee Eck, Master Butcher
Interesting take, that Salmond "asked [the now former Ministers] to make way", rather than showing supreme powers of leadership and having them frog-marched out of his sight.
What would he have done had the individuals concerned declined his suggestion...?
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I think Roseanna Cunninghame and Alex Neil, while not exactly up and coming youngsters, are both high profile and excellent debaters. I think they strengthen the Government and are a step up on those they replace.
Don't know much about Keith Brown. Hope he's more capable than his namesake El Gordo.
As an aside - and cue accusations of paranoia here - but would a Brown reshuffle in Westminster attract such a negative headline from the BBC, as "3 Sacked in Labour Reshuffle?"
I doubt it personally.
Same old BBC.
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Pick a card, any card...
I don't rate Cunningham at all after an extremely poor performance on Dimblebore's QT when in the running for the SNP leadership. She completely let off the Scottish subsidy promulgators quite gutlessly. I'm sure she has her supporters but I'm not one of them.
Russel and Neil are stalwarts. Especially Neil. Sorry to see Fabiani go but anecdotally I had heard she can be rather weak in argument.
Brian: why no word on the Glenrothes register? Could you please clarify the moderation procedure here and explain the reasons for any delays. Please do so as the shine sadly came off the EBC a long time ago.
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Steps to a "Cabinet of Rivals", a la Abe Lincoln...?
Good moves, it seems likely.
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Brian,
The most intriguing aspect of this reshuffle is this:
Just who will take over from Alex Neil as the 'rottweiler of the backbenches' for the SNP'??
I think Alex and Roseanna will be fine successes though Mike Russell seems to me to be too much a lover of the sound of his own voice.
This is an overall strengthening of the SNP Government and all three are eminently capable of exploiting the appalling weaknesses in both the leadership and the shadow cabinet of the LPoWiS.
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#3 Westfifer.
There is no need to sing the praises of the SNP, fortunately the opposition do a splendid job of shooting themselves in the foot regularly. Example below:
http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2009/02/speakers-three-day-week.html
Wansanshoo
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dear_wendy - Yes, agreed. All a bit melodramtic when this is little more than a reshuffle. Personally, I think Alex Neil should have been a minister all along.
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Surprised that Linda Fabiana went but delighted that Alex Neil, Mike Russell and Roseanna Cunningham have been promoted nearer to their abilities. Mike Brown is a welcome change too.
The most important aspect of this though is that Salmond now feels confident enough to include former 'rivals' in his team.
This is just the kind of cohesion the SNP now needs as it gears up for this very important electoral period between now and the Referendum on November 30th, not forgetting the Holyrood elections in 2011.
Overall a good move in the current circumstances.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Quite interesting to a disinterested outsider. Three of the awkward squad replace three "nice" operators. Is this the price of unity, some kind of sop to harder factions demanding a bigger say?
Does Salmond simply broaden the front of his virtual one-man band, by setting bigger beasts on the opposition?
Time will tell. It certainly doesn't play well as "fresh" talent. Must be a stronger motive somewhere. Salmond must hope none of the stronger personalities rock the boat. Definitely a risk, I'd say.
Mike Russell seems to be in the right job now, and I expect him to do well.
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Sacked? Disappointed headline Brian + BBC.
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Keith Brown won the Ochil seat after the Great George Reid retired. Mr Brown unlike the other Broon is a welcome part of Scottish politics. I only hope we can also win the Ochil seat at Westminister next year.
Well Done Keith.
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Brian, it looks to me like a deliberate decision to give more prominence to some of the more familiar SNP "names" ahead of the next Westminster and Holyrood elections. Probably a wise decision with regard to party unity if it succeeds in keeping the "hinterlands" that you mention happy.
#7 dear_wendy:
As an aside - and cue accusations of paranoia here - but would a Brown reshuffle in Westminster attract such a negative headline from the BBC, as "3 Sacked in Labour Reshuffle?"
I also noticed the slant the headline puts on this story, so no accusations of paranoia from me this time. It follows hot on the heels of the Beeb's Salmond stokes R & A row article. "Stoking a row"? Not exactly a neutral way of headlining that particular article either.
On this general subject of media bias that has re-emerged recently I would add a couple of thoughts:
1. It's a big, bad world out there! If you don't like the media, change it! Become a journalist/editor/owner! Stop buying/reading whichever rag has upset you. Grumbling won't do much good.
2. Aren't there enough pro-independence Scots around (see the latest TNS poll: 38%) to sustain a newspaper (or other media outlet)? Looking at the breakdown of that TNS poll there are certainly some target demographics to aim any such newspaper at.
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Brian,
So I would be right in assuming he probably had a hand in the excellent draft constitution for an independent Scotland I saw some years ago? I was wondering whether those who so often accuse the SNP of having 'no developed policies' or the like had really bothered to look.Slainte
ed
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Perhaps the ex-culture minister can now focus on her constituency now.
Apart from that nothing of major interest. I think the opposition is getting a little bit carried away.
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#148 oldnat
"To my unknown referrer."
I would suspect that its a secondary wave of mods who glean down the blog and indiscriminately refer them without good reason other than their own bias, using against house rules as excuse. Also if one looks at any post which has not been opened it is usually barred eventually.
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please! (-13.1C) -4.9C
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Not bad Brian. Only a month after I broke this story.
http://green-scotland.blogspot.com/2009/01/brooms-update.html
Green_Anorak
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'Sacking' seems a little imflammatory (not even in quotes since no-one has actually used the word). These are all big names promoted deservedly. But everyone can't be equal so others have to move aside. Alex Salmond is on 5 Live now, which seems like 'burying' the issue in plain sight... Q
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#14 greenockboy
Glenrothes election register must be found
"This also happened in Renfrewshire a number of years ago when a set of registers for local elections went missing, strangely enough the registers covered a number of council wards where the uniform swing across Renfrewshire against Labour came to a sudden stop, only to continue in the neighbouring wards."
#21 wrong thread sorry!
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please! (-13.1C) -4.5C
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Good to see Mike Russell getting a beefed up role within Government.
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Well! Well! I quite like Alex Neil, in fact, he almost sounds to left at times to be a member of the nats?Hmmmm!
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Brian
A real culture clash here.
Your thread reads like the analyses of the Kremlin watchers of the Cold War. Quite right if you believe in adversarial politics as the only way. However that concept is as out of date as the Cold War; government now impinges on so much of our lives that no one party, or opposition, can hold all the truths. Our Scottish solution of having to build consensus has made trying to push our politics back into the adversarial mould irrelevant.
I would doubt that those who lost positions were "sacked". Strategy would say that the more SNP people there are who can hold and have held ministerial position the better the argument that Scots can manage their own affairs, even if they are Nationalists.
As Scottish politics editor you must have had some say in the choosing of "sacked". Would you care to share with us your thoughts on the appropriateness of that choice?
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#18 forfar-loon
I'm with you. Were that I had a bit more experience and contacts, I'd be interested in starting one.
It wouldn't even need to be out-and-out pro independence (pro-referendum, perchance?), just give the issue a fair run.
I used to think complaints of anti-nat media bias were largely a chip-on-the-shoulderism, but recently it has been getting increasingly blatant. I wouldn't necessarily say it's malicious, more a failure of the establishment (overlong channelled into a Westminister mindset) to recognise the way things have changed.
Over on the Herald political blogs, Dinwoodie levels a similar charge at Labour, but the media is suffering from the very same ailment.
http://www.theherald.co.uk/politics/politicalblogs/index.var.13665.0.too_small_for_their_boots.php#comments
(sorry, dunno how to do a fancy link)
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Big Wullie,
Links tutorial
Slainte!
ed
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Long ago, I gave up on the print media.
Now, the only newspapers I acquire are the ones free with a CD or DVD (especially at weekends), and sometimes they get no further than the bin outside the newsagent's!
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I'm equally miffed by the headline since it seems to be the least acrimonious reshuffle in recent history. I look forward to seeing the BBC's wonderfully objective headline on independence day...
"SNP rip Scotland kicking and screaming from universally loved and perfectly functioning union."
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Quite a accolade, being one of the first ex-SNP Ministers!
BTW, what does an SNP 'has been' (as is "has been a Minister") do?
The other parties can recommend for nomination to the House of Lords, but the SNP has set its face against such action.
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Re my #32:
References to "ex-SNP Ministers" should be read as "SNP ex-Ministers".
As per announcement of the famous Thai snooker player had his country of origin not changed its name:
"Wattana, Siam".
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The use of the word "sacked" in the headline is unusual for the BBC.
A word search reveals that when it has come to previous news of cabinet reshuffles at Westminster and Holyrood by the BBC the word "sacked" is not used at all in the main headline. Why use it now?
The only occasion it has been used has been to describe political reshuffles in Chad, Afghanistan and Iran. All muslim countries, all at odds with West. Strange that!
The use of the word "sacked" by BBC reporters at Pacific Quay displays a hostile mindset where the first instinct is to denigrate this SNP government.
Perhaps the talents of these journalists would be better used in a foreign assignment to Chad, Afghanistan and Iran. Obviously such a journalistic reshuffle could not be construed by others as BBC journalists being "sacked" from their current jobs.
NOT GOOD BBC SCOTLAND, NOT NEARLY GOOD ENOUGH!
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forfar-loon
Your point 1) about the media is valid up to a point.
In my own case I used to buy The Herald six days a week, now I would not let it into my house except as a chip wrapper. Judging by the circulation figures finding a copy used as a chip wrapper is unlikely.
I unfortunately however do not have that luxury with the BBC. I cannot say I do not like the pro Labour, anti SNP slant that the BBC puts on everything, so I am not paying the TV tax anymore. I and everyone else cannot legally own a TV if I do not pay this tax.
Do I resent this and grudge paying this TV tax, too right I do.
P.S. This is why the moderation argument will fall on deaf ears, the money comes in regardless of the level of service. No willing customers, only conscripted payers.
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35. At 3:52pm on 10 Feb 2009, dubbieside wrote:
forfar-loon
"Your point 1) about the media is valid up to a point."
Emmm! your 2nd point about the 1st point
points to the 1st point in your 2nd point.
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Re the SNPs refusal to have their own members in the House of Lords.
I think they are mistaken here. While some Lords appear to be easily pushed in one direction, most are actually quite reliable.
Parliament does need an oversight, and the SNP can justify their own existence in their. it would certainly benefit Scotland. And the SNP must remember that their primary role is to represent their own constituents.
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dubbieside @ #35
"I and everyone else cannot legally own a TV if I do not pay this tax."
You can OWN a television set without having a TV licence; you just cannot make use of any television receiver (i.e. TV, VCR, etc.) without same.
Mind you, a top-of-the-range 42-inch plasma set would be an expensive ornament if you decided not to watch TV ever again.
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Dissapointed with the headline Brian, at any other time it would have read "Cabinet reshuffle" .Come on BBC how biased a headline is this.
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Is it just me or has Derick Barker totally lost the plot.
Can someone interpret his reply to my post, because I cannot.
Am I the only one on here who when I see the name Derick Barker think, just what incoherent rubbish will he post now.
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Well, at least the modding seems up to speed this afternoon....
Shock News - A reshuffle. Then why it is being painted by the BBC as "sackings" ?
Reshuffles happen in any Government or Opposition Party. Will we see "Labour Sackings" or "Iain Grey moves to "freshen his team" prior to storming to power in '11" ?
The usual ticket in the next conference raffle for the car for the correct answer.
It may be bringing in the rivals, but doesn't it also show a bit of a shift to the so-called Fundamentalist (or even Left) wing of the party ?
Glad to see Linda Fabiani go, see my previous posts on The Yartz. Also good to see Mike Russell a bit closer to the top table.
Reading between the lines, this catch-all thing of "responsibility for the Constitution" sounds a bit interesting...has MR been tasked with starting to outline That Document in preparation for The Glorious Day ?
As to what an SNP ex-Minister does, I would suggest that they go back to their constituencies and prepare for Independence. We have been pleasingly free of internicine carping so far, can we keep it that way and remember that we can save the splits for after we have our nation back.
#18 forfar-loon, #28 uillieam-beag
The SNP keep trying to start a pro-independence paper by subscription and it keeps going nowhere fast.
The fact of the matter is, as I was just listening to Mayo on 5Live, is that Print Media is dying on its feet. Naturally, no mention of the papers of Northern Britain, but the figures that I caught up on were that the Sunday Independent was now at 175,000 as opposed to 350,000 and that the Daily was "not in much better shape" and that the News of the Screws "had just crept back above 3 million" from a peak of nearly five.
Would I buy a daily "Scottish Independent News" ? I'm right in that High pro-Independence demographic.
Actually, no. I don't buy a daily paper and haven't done so for years. I may however subscribe to a website (if they had blogs/forums where the modding was up to a decent speed :} )
On Modding, I did a quick(ish) run through of most of the major BBC Blogs last night at about 8pm. Their average modding time at that point was just over 2 hours.
However, we do seem to be the only ones volubly bitching about it !
[Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please! ]
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Ed Iglehart @ #19:
The [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator] (2002) is quite a good read, if you like that sort of thing - and I do!
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#40
Ah, so you ignore the 1st point in the 2nd part of your 1st parted point.
So your 1st part- departed of the 2nd part forms your 1st parted point.
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#40 dubbieside
Think yourself lucky (see end previous thread!)
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#41 Chiefy1724
"The SNP keep trying to start a pro-independence paper by subscription and it keeps going nowhere fast.
The fact of the matter is, as I was just listening to Mayo on 5Live, is that Print Media is dying on its feet."
True.
But could they not start an online journal e-mailed to all of us that wants it every few days/week or so?
(If they do, when I last looked at their website it didn't seem obvious.)
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#46
Hey! big- baloo, no need for that!
What about the three sacked ministers
were they not up to the job?
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#47 derekbarker
I'd reply to your post, but I didn't bother to read it.
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In my previous post (#22) I pointed out that Brian's breaking news is actually old news - I broke this story over a month ago on my Green Scotland blog. I included a link to my blog in post #22, which has apparently fallen foul of BBC rules (enter 'green scotland blog' into a search engine and you'll find it).
Apparently that previous post has been 'referred for moderation' because in a post last year I applauded Plane Stupid for taking non-violent direct action against airport expansion. Condoning law-breaking is apparently verboten with the BBC. It was okay for Ghandi, Martin Luther King and the suffragettes, but of course Auntie knows best.
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#35 dubbieside:
You're right of course. Individually we are somewhat restricted in what we can do to effect change within the media.
My point was aimed also at any SNP bigwigs out there. If I were in their ghillie brogues I'd see it as of great strategic importance to secure more sympathetic treatment by the media. The way to do that is to get SNP supporters into positions of influence within the media, not simply to grumble at how unfair it is.
#41 chiefy:
You're absolutely right with regard to the decline of print media, some sort of news website was more what I was thinking about (and more what people want these days). Setting this up from scratch would be no mean feat however, so perhaps the most realistic way ahead is for some rich SNP supporter to buy one of the existing rags.
That said I was struck by the vast array of womens magazines in my local Sainsbury's last night - given the lower female support for independence perhaps the SNP should think about a takeover of one of these august journals?! ;o)
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sack - displace: terminate the employment of; discharge from an office or position,
Is that not what happened?
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The state of the media in Scotland won't be tolerated for much longer, I suspect. People can and will act with their wallets and their viewing habits. As more and more people recognise the inbuilt bias, they will just stop buying into the various publications and outlets, surely.
Let me state my own example.
Before the SNP formed a government I used to buy the Scotsman everyday although it didn't please my own politics to do so. It just seemed to be the least worst publication for the East of Scotland.
Since the SNP formed a government, the Scotsman editorials and columns have moved their stance to almost exclusively opposing the SNP. Gradually, I found that I would pick up the paper on the newstand, read the main political articles and if it didn't have too severe a slant or offered a balanced perspective I would buy it that day. These days I find that too tedious and just assume that I won't find any balanced reporting at all and I just stopped buying it completely. From their share price and circulation claims, I suspect that I'm not alone in rejecting them.
Re TV habits, I find that the STV political journalists are just as biased and so I now never watch STV news and political programs. Further than that, I resent watching general STV programs because of the way that can reflect on the viewing figures and influence the advertisers. I now only turn to STV if absolutely necessary. There are plenty entertainment options amongst the freeview stations who don't falsely claim to be Scottish Television.
Regarding the BBC, I have to pay the license fee and thus support an organisation that spews output, to my political ear, that differs in content to the output from a certain Lord Haw Haw of a few years back but doesn't differ much in intent. The SNP is a legally accepted political organisation and yet is treated as though it were a terrorist organisation by the BBC editors.
Does anyone know how to deal with the BBC bias when we can't stop payment to it without cutting ourselves off from the world completely? Is there any way of getting news and politics into the home with a balanced content?
(I have certainly stopped buying the inaccurate and incomplete publication that is the Radio Times. (Have you noticed that they don't even publish the schedule for Radio Scotland))?
Is there a case for another go at a "Scottish Daily News"? Is it worth a survey of potential buyers for such a publication?
Best wishes.
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aye_write 44
His posts there make no sense either, still he is consistent, he writes junk on all the treads.
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#52 I believe the answer to this is someone setting up a news commentary blog with 4 or 5 editors from different political backgrounds from the Scottish blog scene/media.
Unfortunately, as ever, its a case of finding the right people, the cash to fund such an enterprise and then capturing the audience.
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On the BBC Website and also text on BBC Scotland a story appeared entitled " Ban sees bar staff breathe easy". This is not a new story but goes back to 2007, how did the BBC miss this or is it just a case of putting out propaganda. Tobacco Control are dredging the barrel if they have to put out old stories as new ones.
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No 3 Westfifer
What are you talking about? I suppose you don't like the SNP bloggers as they're usually correct. Fifer in the G Broon mould I expect. Come out from underneath your blanket as life goes on...
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#51 amicusalba
You forgot to tell us that that usage is slang or maybe you didn't want to shew how Auntie's standards were slipping?
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#52
The nation within the state.
Are you calling for, one news paper!
one radio channel!
one voice!
one party!
one state!
one TV channel!
one mind!
Are you not being a bit narrow?.
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I see the "SACKING" of three SNP ministers is now the main BBC Scotland headline.
What about the "SACKING" of 2300 Royal Bank of Scotland workers? Well it transpires that BBC in its wisdom has described that as "JOB CUTS"!
Maybe a few more "JOB CUTS" at Pacific Quay will concentrate minds on what is really important.
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#54
BrianSH, I see you are also concerned at the missing 33Bn, yes where has all that cash gone?.
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Its the glass half full or the glass half empty isn't it?
If three got "sacked" then surely three others got "promoted" - but I suppose that slant is far too positive :-)
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#58
It looks to me as if you are blowing this completely out of proportion! The poor person is merely a pro-SNP Scot fed up of anti-SNP bias throughout Scottish media. I saw no indication whatsoever that the comment in question was advocating what you seem to be implying are fascist-style policies.
Furthermore, you seem to show exactly the sort of bias against this blogger's views that they are complaining about! So can the question, this time validly, be asked:
Are you not being a bit narrow?
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#3
Ironic that you should talk about "spin", i would say. You seem to be using a fairly hefty amount of "spin" yourself.
And I too hope that the debate will be focused on details, rather than the admittedly not-so-usual anti-SNP speeches.
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#58, Derek you are effectively defending the Status-Quo of,
one newspaper!
one radio channel!
one voice!
one party!
one state!
one TV channel!
one mind!
As demonstrated by the Hootsman-Record-BBC Alliance. You couldn't fit a playing card between the line these great "institutions" (and others) of journalism normally take on 90% of Scottish issues.
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#50 forfar loon, women's mags of that ilk (yer Chat, TAB and the like) tend to trend Conservative. Law and order, the precious little kiddies, etc. Though I spotted that one the other day was offering a prize of the visit of the Home Secretary! This isn't usual, though.
To capture that market the Nats would have to out Tory the Tories. Ouch.
#52 bobbibishop, everyone's biased against the government of the day. That's what makes newspapers and blogs et al interesting, they're looking for scoops, scandal...Uncritical reporting would pall a bit would it not?
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#63 Dispairing, Derek just does his thing and speaks his mind, I think. I quite like it, especially when he goes off on one. Keep it up cde!
In re details, not too qualified to comment except that I met Ms Fabiani in the dim and distant past and she was really nice. What I do think is interesting is as Mr Taylor said, the change in focus of that role towards the constitution and away from what might be seen as more "frivolous" aspects of the brief in the run up to 2010.
We live in interesting times, innit?
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My comment at 14 was removed, shame as it contained a few titbits that generally don't see the light of day in the Scottish media, I didn't save a copy so will draft another some time.
Before I go on I'd like to thank aye_write for the generous remarks. To answer (her?) question of a blog, I have no aims in that direction, although I am a sortware developer.
The problem with a blog is that people have to seek it out, whereas the target of our comments should generally be the 'casual reader'.
An internet journal, promoted by a recognised and respected body could work, but it would take a great deal of effort in order to ensure quality content and to edit.
I agree with the points made regarding the pejorative wording of the 'Sacked' headline, and yes I also noticed the same 'style' of wording on the 'all male' Golf story.
These not so subtle tactics are what we have come to expect and simply add to the burying of stories and the promotion of others.
We have to continue highlighting the double standards and indeed the blatant bias.
This week will see complaints against The Herald and The Scotsman heard by the Press Complaints Commission. The complaints revolve around the headlines run by these papers the day after Holyrood's Presiding Officer announced an inquiry into the procedures he conforms to when dealing with complaints.
Both papers ran headlines that stated quite unequivocally that the inquiry was into the truthfullness or veracity of ministerial statements, this was untrue.
Both papers were in clear breach of the codes of the PCC, indeed The Herald swiftly removed the article from their site within days.
Comment using the the three F's,
abuse free, informative and factual.
Cheers.
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I don't think the SNP would ever allow ex-ministers to go to the Lords like other partys.
However as ex "Speaker" okay presiding officer, George Reid should certainly be recognised. Look at not only Lord Steele but he is also a Knight.
If not the Lords for George Reid why can't he be made SIR?
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Well Brian like changes at a football club only time will tell.
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Meanwhile,...
Dead cats bouncingBoing Boing!
ed
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Greenock Boy,
A model?Follow the micro$oft way, and "borrow" a good idea...
Slainte!
ed
(and always keep a copy ;-))
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Haing read your blogs for over two years, and I can also confirm that I am not a member of any political party, I find that I am more than a little concerned by the lack of respect to the general public made by these chancers. I am a middle-aged disabled transplantee who relies on his saving to survive, and I am more than a little annoyed that these unqualified plonkers have left me in a position where I have lost lots and can see no light at the end of the tunnel. These bankers NEED to be taken to acount by the public (who have bailled them out and paid them huge bonuses fot their collective failures), but they are laughing all the way to the ban (probably offshore) and we the savers in this country Scotland, as it happens) are left to bail out the institutions where our money should have been safe. The present PM and his followers in the Commons and the Lords should be preparing themselves for destitution and poverty like the majority of the Electorate, since GB and his like have feasted on the expenses and stuffed the rest of us. This may be my one and only blog in me life, but the Labour fiasco has left me incensed since no-one seems capable of taking the responsibilty for their GREED and their actions. I am totally disollusioned by all of you!
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Re House of Lords:
What is the point of HoL when has-been Westminster politicians are sent there to see out their days, only to seek to reinvent themselves as Scottish politicians and take an MSP seat away from someone who will still be around in 30-40 years' time to reap what they sow today?
Yes, Lord Foulkes of Cumnock, I mean you...
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#72, the2hearted1:
A good post, and not - I hope - the last we shall hear from you.
I cannot see the sense of propping up the banking system which failed so catastrophically. Better to have let RBS and HBOS fail, then use taxpayers' money to compensate the customers rather than to bale out the executives' s(t)inking ship!.
Peter Rogers would surely have rejected such a scenario for a putative "Carry On Banking" as too fanciful and far-fetched.
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Re 40
Derek has an opinion no less legitimate because you don't like it.
Re Bighulabaloo
The phrase pots and kettles comes to mind
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#19, Ed_Iglehart
Good point.
My #42 included a link (albeit indirect) to the Draft Constitution from September 2002 - easy to find via any search engine ("draft constitution for an independent Scotland") - but apparently PDFs are still verboten as targets.
A very good read for those who like that sort of thing (I do!), and an eminently sensible starting point for establishing the mechanisms for an independent Scotland.
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Mideast Peace Policies Hinge on Israeli Vote
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oldnat
Just had a chance to have a good look at the System 3 poll which you highlighted yesterday - and the breakdown certainly makes interesting reading.
Perhaps, we should phase-in independence on a geographical basis: start in the north (the Highlands and Islands first), and work south (next, Moray and the two Aberdeens, City and Shire) and so on.
It seems that it's only south of the old Central Region that there is entrenched opposition.
Instead of North Britain, perhaps we could have a "North Scotland"...
---
Obvious question: whose oil would it be then?
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52. At 4:49pm on 10 Feb 2009, bobbishop wrote:
The state of the media in Scotland won't be tolerated for much longer, I suspect. People can and will act with their wallets and their viewing habits. As more and more people recognise the inbuilt bias, they will just stop buying into the various publications and outlets, surely.
------------------
I think you are there. Printed media - ie newspapers - are gradually dying out. But the circulation of the Herald (or at least before the changes) and the Scotsman are not sufficient to change politics much.
The tabloid press still sells well, but most people are not interested in politics to any great depth. They look at headline policies; price of pint, cigs, taxes and so on. They have little interest in base rates, fiscal spending etc.
aye_right mentioned the SNP should start an online journal. Good idea.
I subscribe to a weekly newsletter from David Cameron (I know, heathen!) and it makes good reading. The SNP should be using a similar method of communication. It's cheaper than mailshots for starters.
The Conservatives have produced an excellent marketing tool and there is no harm in copying the format.
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Just what has Kenny got on Eck???
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More Labour snouts caught in the trough.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2009/feb/09/michael-white-jacqui-smith
But - don't worry - she'll get away with it ... they usually do.
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I think a small re-shuffle is a good thing... after all, it's not like anyone is really going to the Bru tomorrow... "sacked" you say Mr Taylor?
I have always been an admirer of Roseanna Cunningham (...shut up, not like that!) I think she is a good substitution to bring off the bench for the second half of the term; a fresh pair of legs if you like... (..oops not again!).
The one thing that can be said for the SNP is that there is a depth of talent in the squad which is far better than that of the opposition and this might well make the difference come the end of the season...
unless any of the opposition could tempt any of the Scots currently playing in the English leagues to come home of course...
...Brown to return to Holyrood for a modest signing on fee at Labour Unionited? I don't think so.
*;o)
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northhighlander 75
Derek has an opinion no less legitimate because you don't like it.
35. At 3:52pm on 10 Feb 2009, dubbieside wrote:
forfar-loon
"Your point 1) about the media is valid up to a point."
Emmm! your 2nd point about the 1st point
points to the 1st point in your 2nd point.
Ok you explain what he means by this, because I dont know what is is talking about.
Is this a legitimate opinion or just incoherent rambling?
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For years the snp have complained about westminster selling off scottish assets,they then get control of one of scotlands most prized possissions{its forests}and low and behold Mike Russel like some junkie who sells the family silver to get a quick fix is willing to lease out scotlands forests to the""spivs and greedy market men"who the"wee banker"blamed for the fall of HBOS and RBS. Scotlands party i think not
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Re 78
Now the Concept of a North Scotland independant and free of Central belt domination is something I would be tempted to vote for!
Seriously maybe you have hit on something though, Independance through a system of reform of democracy throughout all levels, with more responsibility for local decisions at a local level, then we might have something worth the pain of change.
Don't think that is what you meant though unfortunately.
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Re 77
I hope this election represents a change of direction for Israel and eventually some peace and justice for the Palestinians.
This war must stop before the situation spirals out of control. If this conflict was resolved than I think extremists around the world would have their biggest driver removed.
This must be good for peace and security around the world. I hope Obama uses his considerable leverage to push the peace process forward and stop the madness.
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#75 northhighlander
- Re 40
Derek has an opinion no less legitimate because you don't like it. -
If you can work out from db's #36 what db's opinion is, respect.
If you can explain how you deconstructed the post
- Emmm! your 2nd point about the 1st point
points to the 1st point in your 2nd point. -
to make out what opinion db has/had, double the respect.
If I knew what db's opinion was I could like it or dislike it, but in #40 dubbieside was asking for help in interpreting post #36 from db, so that part of your post is a non-sequitur.
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I too was surprised at the widespread use - and emphasis - by the BBC of the word 'sacking'. Surely it's just a fairly routine shifting of the furniture, not unremarkable after nearly two years down the line?
It was used on BBC radio Scotland at lunchtime, teatime and on Reporting Scotland this evening, as well as online and in Brian's blog. Conspiracy theory, anyone?
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#51 You're right about the definition of the word. The recurring objection to the word 'sack' here is that when it is used in a journalistic headline it has an extra veneer of shock. (I'm sure we all gasped when we read the headline, and we all went 'Huh?' when we read the story.) As pointed out by #34 it is just not used in this way in UK politics, and gives an un-necessary air of disaster. Q
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Speaking of Mike Russell I was somewhat surprised to see that he's keen to save the Red squirrels in Scotland. I can only presume he is keen to preserve a small number as a sort of memento mori...
For as we all know, over the last 50 years the Red squirrels have enjoyed the run of Scotland, busily hoarding any expenses, erm I mean nuts, that they could lay their greedy paws on, much to the detriment of their fellow creatures. However, the poor Reds are now restricted to a few strongholds in the central belt and their numbers are set to be further decimated following the ill-advised introduction of the Gray squirrel.
This noxious pest outcompetes the Reds for media attention but then proceeds to paralyse all creatures that come near with its interminable, monotonous screeching.
Fortunately a solution is at hand. The natural predator of the Gray is the Salmond, a quicker witted, more agile foe that tears strips off the Gray any time it ventures too close.
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re my #87
Sorry all. The slowness of the moderation meant I did not know that dubbieside had already covered the point in his #83
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northhighlander @ #85
One of the benefits of greater powers for Holyrood would hopefully be that, with an increased workload, more powers and responsibilities would be further devolved down to more local bodies.
By and large, I believe that, far from power being devolved (a top-down approach) - Westminster to Holyrood to local authority - popular will should be expressed through an evolution upwards (a bottom-up approach), although this tends towards the notional system of soviets in the old USSR...
...or, inded, of Old Labour with TU leaders casting millions of votes at a time.
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#84 modfather
How are you going to raise the money to plant a billion new trees in Scotland then?
Trees take a long time but it would be something apart from GB's debts that we could leave to our children and grand children.
The big worry is that just as the civil servants made a right hash of writing PFI contracts they'd make a hash of writing these leases and we wouldn't get the benefits we are expecting. It's not just the money it's also the maintenance, harvesting and replanting and 70/80 years into the future. The likelyhood of getting it wrong are pretty high.
But we do need the money from somewhere to get more trees in the ground
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#86, northhighlander:
"I hope this election represents a change of direction for Israel "
Sadly, I think change will only come about when Israel can no longer rely upon the United States to veto any motion of condemnation tabled at the UN Security Council.
Over to you, President Obama....
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FYI #26. Alex Neil started out in the Labour Party in Scotland in the '60s, then helped set up the breakaway Scottish Labour Party in the '70s with Jim Sillars. Quite 'left' indeed. The SLP collapsed along with the rest of the Nationalist heap following the failure of the (successful) referendum to secure a Scottish Assembly in 1979. Q
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#84 themodfather
Welcome. Great username!
However, the inclusion of leasing the forests in the Climate Change Bill is a little more complex than you suggest.
Very worthy of debate, and Brian might well post a thread on this.
I have respect for concerns that politicians might be planning the worst of all possible worlds in their legislation. However, it is dangerous to assume that this will automatically be the case. For example, Mike Russell has frequently stated that community leasing will be high on the agenda.
You are entitled to feel that Armageddon is nigh, but you need to provide chapter and verse on the detail of the Bill, and your concerns about it, if you are going to persuade the rest of us.
Simple statements about "selling off Scottish assets" are not sufficient, unless you can justify them.
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Media bias, media bias, media bias, the cybernats seem incapable of approaching an issue in any other way. As Ed Inglehart said a while ago, without the possibility of failure, there's no chance of success. Once you've turned all debate into a question of media bias, there is no possibility of failure. Anything, absolutely anything, that goes wrong can be blamed on media bias.
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All this talk of a pro-independence e-publication is exactly what I have been thinking about over the last year. I believe it cold work as a weekly e-zine, and would most certainly be very interested in joining a team of others to make it come true. If anyone else is interested, please contact me on [Personal details removed by Moderator] It could work and if we pool resources, it will be a whole lot easier. i love the Huffington Post format as well
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#85 northhighlander
"Re 78
Now the Concept of a North Scotland independant and free of Central belt domination is something I would be tempted to vote for!
Seriously maybe you have hit on something though, Independance through a system of reform of democracy throughout all levels, with more responsibility for local decisions at a local level, then we might have something worth the pain of change.
Don't think that is what you meant though unfortunately."
More decisions made at the local level are I think what many of us on here have said we aspire to (oldnat, brownedov etc.).
Is independence not a step on the road to this goal? By moving from Westminster to Holyrood decisions are already tailored to a more 'local' level with 'local' interests adressed more directly as opposed to now, where issues can and are dominated by one particular region or area of the country and whose interests and priorities do not reflect your own.
Now I know you will argue that the status quo would still exist, albeit under another guise. If anything has been shown recently regarding Scottish politics it is that there are growing differences and distinctions from the 'traditional' Westminster politics we have been used to for generations.
I would urge you not to tar the current devolved institution, nor indeed a future indpeendent government, with the same brush of successive Westminster government failures to address particular community needs. Indeed 'change', as someone else has recently said, is what we heve been aspiring to, and in that vain is it not worth at least seeing if that change comes to fruition?
Don't right off what an independent Scotland could do for the needs of rural areas just yet.
On a lighter note, it must be hell for you having to travel to the domineering central belt of a weekend/evening to see your team ;-)
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Forfarian (78), Hey! I'm in the South, and I want independence too! I have much sympathy with Northhighlander's #85 desire not to be dominated by the Central Belt, but it would be hard to do worse than we've seen, and just maybe somebody might finally get round to making 'local' government more local than this!
Slainte!
ed
P.S We've got plenty of Reds here!
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#85 northhighlander
"Now the Concept of a North Scotland independant and free of Central belt domination is something I would be tempted to vote for!
Seriously maybe you have hit on something though, Independance through a system of reform of democracy throughout all levels, with more responsibility for local decisions at a local level, then we might have something worth the pain of change."
Good grief!
You can be tempted by change :-)
(At the risk of cheesing you right off again!) Isn't that what independence could be for? Construct these changes into the likes of the draft document I quoted you on the other thread and in independence implement them?
(I'm not sure if politicians can deliver "all that" if they are not first in a system that does enable them to do it. Perhaps if as you say they have to earn such acommodation, is the lack of it not a partial contributory factor in their not having earned it. All I'm saying is that I think the two are importantly linked, and that is why I would consider constitutional change :-)
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Forfarian,
I can't seem to find a link to the "draft constitution for an independent Scotland" Just mentions of it....and your 42 is in limbo...
You might send the link to Obama, and I'll arrange an indirect link like this
Slainte
ed
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Dinwoodie has turned out a decent piece of journalism here,
http://www.theherald.co.uk/politics/news/display.var.2488428.0.Top_team_bolstered_for_next_two_years.php
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Modfather and Handclapping,
It may be that Mike Russell's re-deployment is a good thing in more ways than one...I have a longstanding interest in forests and forestry matters.
I don't know much about the current SNP proposals yet, but I do feel that the one thing we must not allow is the loss of the 8% of Scotland we own. We should do our very best to increase this tremendous public asset and increase its richness and diversity.
I have deep suspicion of any idea involving giving over control of any public asset to corporations.
We shall see, but we must be watchful
Slainte
P.S. Forfarian, some worrying perspective
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My posting has been binned by the moderators because I enclosed my email address I suspect. But the gist of the posting was to say how I support the idea of setting up an e-publication to provide a media forum ffrom a pro independence news viewpoint. I have been working on ways to do this, which I regard as viable, but it needs a team to work on it. I am a bit stuck now as to how to rally fellow enthusiasts, but in the meantime perhaps those interested in collaborating could post here and I will try to think of ways to get us known to each other.
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Freedom fighter,
You could communicate with other interested parties by [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator] It's free, and anyone interested can communicate through 'comments'
Alternatively you can send comments to Obama I'm quite sure he won't mind, and discretion is assured...
Slainte!
ed
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#93 Handclapping
Surely we have a large unemployed workforce currently paid for by the state?
Couldn't we utilize this to plant to trees and whatnot?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#105. At 03:51am on 11 Feb 2009, freedom_fighter
This any use?
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#103 pattymkirkwood
Thanks for the link - a good read and a fair headline. Even more surprising is the reasonableness of the headline and content of other Herald story on this: Salmond buries hatchet and brings old foes into the fold. Is it possible that they're getting the message?
The Scotsman's In from the cold ... Salmond's critics join the team is also fair comment and avoids a "negative" headline.
Even the Record has a headline few could argue with in their: Alex Salmond: Independence is 'within touching distance', which concentrates on Russell's role, but gives fair comment on the other changes.
The Courier manages a neutral headline with their Salmond carries out first reshuffle, but the content starts with the sackings, although they do quote Salmond as saying: "There have been no failures in the ministerial team but I have asked them to make way to give colleagues an opportunity to show what they can contribute".
OTOH, the Press & Journal headline is from the BBC school, with Heads roll in Salmond shake-up and going on in that vein.
To be fair to Brian, his Rewarding talent title for this topic thread is much less pejorative than the Ministers sacked in SNP reshuffle of the main story on this website.
Off out again for the day, but back tonight if the queues aren't too long, I hope.
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
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What's the difference between an SNP Government reshuffle and a Labour Government in the eyes of the BBC?
"Ministers sacked in SNP reshuffle"
"Tony Blair makes cabinet changes"
In the first instance the headline is negative and suggestive of somethiig has gone wrong or someone has not performed.
In the second instance, a neutral statement of fact.
Both are BBC headlines frrom this website.
When will unionist propaganda tools like the BBC give impartial treatment to Scottish affairs?
Stupid question TDBs!
TDBs
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Regarding the BBC bais against the SNP, I have emailed them several time for an explanation - with no reply. Speaks volumes.
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And whats more I have to pay them £140.00 per year.
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#67 greenockboy
"Before I go on I'd like to thank aye_write for the generous remarks. To answer (her?) question of a blog, I have no aims in that direction, although I am a sortware developer."
Yes, "her".
(Nope, I'm not an online tranny ;-)
And you would appear to be an asset. Plus, software developer....you sound a bit handy....
"The problem with a blog is that people have to seek it out, whereas the target of our comments should generally be the 'casual reader'."
Yes, I know, and it needs to have content added at least daily to enable it to be found. I was only spinning ideas in the air. But folks' imaginations have been captured.
Perhaps I'd add to the casual reader, the casual subscriber and even the "spammed"!
I always thought the SNP/independence movement should copy the ideas of the Obama campaign for the referendum. Some online bits could we not copy cheaply!
"An internet journal, promoted by a recognised and respected body could work, but it would take a great deal of effort in order to ensure quality content and to edit."
Yes. Or, it could become respected as it is circulated.
The SNP could do it, perhaps better the Scottish Independence Council (SIC), or even anyone with the knowledge (or pass the knowledge to someone keen and able).
Would one easy way be to have multiple authors....This would require though one or perhaps a couple of editors to filter and regulate. Could be done. Texts for the journal could be sent to the editors.
I see a benefit of pooling resources (e.g. info. from posts on here?) and compiling it into a standardly acceptable format, by which I mean appealing and digestible to the public. The tone and language is the key here...I state the obvious (but if no one does...)
#79 Neil_Small147
"Printed media - ie newspapers - are gradually dying out. But the circulation of the Herald (or at least before the changes) and the Scotsman are not sufficient to change politics much.
The tabloid press still sells well, but most people are not interested in politics to any great depth. They look at headline policies; price of pint, cigs, taxes and so on. They have little interest in base rates, fiscal spending etc.
aye_right mentioned the SNP should start an online journal. Good idea."
Well, thank you, but I stole it from oldnat (who realised I was heading in that direction ;-)
"I subscribe to a weekly newsletter from David Cameron (I know, heathen!) and it makes good reading. The SNP should be using a similar method of communication. It's cheaper than mailshots for starters.
The Conservatives have produced an excellent marketing tool and there is no harm in copying the format."
It's alright, I like comedy aswell ;-)
I think it would be cool, and lots of agree...
#105 freedom_fighter
"My posting has been binned by the moderators because I enclosed my email address I suspect. But the gist of the posting was to say how I support the idea of setting up an e-publication to provide a media forum ffrom a pro independence news viewpoint. I have been working on ways to do this, which I regard as viable, but it needs a team to work on it."
Great this can be done :-)
You are not the first or only one of us to have thought about it, you will have realised :-)
"I am a bit stuck now as to how to rally fellow enthusiasts, but in the meantime perhaps those interested in collaborating could post here and I will try to think of ways to get us known to each other."
Great. This can be done.... ;-)
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Delayed waiting for a colleague, so I had time to look at some of the London media.
As a PS to my #110, you may care to compare the cringeworhtiness of this site's and the Scottish print media coverage of the greedy bankers and NuLab with the main comment on the issue in today's Indy from Mark Steel: New Labour encouraged every aspect of this avarice, with the sub-title "The people who couldn't see what was obvious are allowed to carry on".
Unlike the BBC, Steel is - as always - prepared to call a spade and lays in to the government with comments like: Why not say it's the worst for 2,000 years, when the great crash of 9AD was caused by the gross overvaluation of aqueducts? Or the worst for 65 million years, when the Jurassic currency disaster led to bankers throwing themselves from the top of brontosaureses, followed by the eventual disappearance of all dinosaurs, despite the Prime Minister having boasted: "We have finally put an end to the cycle of evolution and extinction."
TTFN
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
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West Lothian Council Tax frozen
It does seem a bit premature to announce next year's Council Tax rate BEFORE being [officially] told how much revenue support will be forthcoming from the Scottish Government.
I have no doubt that councils have received an indication of what to expect, but it is politically naive to draw any conclusions as a result. And WLC will not have made friends at Holyrood by breaching the effective embargo on dissemination of the information prior to the Finance Secretary's statement to Parliament...
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It seems the Mods (who are as Gods) don't want Squirrels to pass nuggets...
Pity
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Brownedov @ #115
Brilliant quote from Mark Steel, which certainly bears repeating:
"Why not say it's the worst ... for 65 million years, when the Jurassic currency disaster led to bankers throwing themselves from the top of brontosaureses, followed by the eventual disappearance of all dinosaurs, despite the Prime Minister having boasted: "We have finally put an end to the cycle of evolution and extinction."
ROFL
In fact, I may just go out and buy the relevant newspaper (for the first time ever, although I occasionally access the website), to have a hard copy of the original.
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As promised, a link to the Draft Constitution, which cannot be linked directly due to BBC policy regarding PDF links (they institute a 'download')...
My compliments to Forfarian (and to the squirrels
Slainte!
ed
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northhighlander
I am still waiting on your explanation of Derick Barkers reply to my post.
As I freely admitted I did not have a clue what he was talking about, but I thought that you would explain all, given your thoughtful intervention.
Is there anyone out there who can explain just what Derick Barker was talking about?
Derick if you send an explanation use one of your other names as I usually scroll down when I see your posts.
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#119, Ed_Iglehart
Well done for getting the [indirect] link to publish on this page.
The 'Draft Constitution' should be read by those who think that, once independence is achieved, the SNP will scratch their heads and say, "What do we do now?"
Given that the SNP's determination to seek to give the Scottish people a chance to say 'aye' or 'nay' before the next Holyrood election, perhaps a renewed edition (probably unchanged) should be published.
Then it would be up to the other parties to say what they find so objectionable.
Perhaps, it is the idea that the constitution could only be changed if the general population voted for the change in a referendum.
Imagine that!
Asking the people what they want!
Oh, the horror!!!
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The leasing of the forests is shocking to be honest, and if given the go ahead it is going to give teh opposition much needed ammunition, and this time they won't be firing blanks.
Leasing over 75 years? The first year will give the private company an instant profit.
It is not PFI, but then it is still giving control of a public owned item to a private company, which is the general basis of PFI.
Big mistake I think here, especially since our natural resources are one of our major benefits.
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Re post 114, aye_right
Interested party here.
Best wishes.
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Anyone who thinks a bias against SNP policy is new, look at the headline from the launch of the SNP Draft Constitution in 2002:
SNP takes aim at the monarchy
What was the party's sin?
To suggest that, despite the fact that Constitution explicitly provides for continuation of the monarchy, a referendum could be held to move to an elected Head of State.
In other words, EXACTLY the current position in the United Kingdom.
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#112
Emailing a waste of time. Write them a letter. They are obliged to reply. They might not do so. Then you make a complaint.
tel 0141-422-6000. Be prepared for a war of attrition or a surprising number of times at which whoever is in charge is not available.
This is known as the "Glenrothes Registers Effect"
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Re #84, #96, #104, #122
Like others, I am very concerned about the idea of leasing Scotland's forests.
I think that this is something that should be very carefully scrutinised as this has the potential to be a significant loss for Scotland.
Firstly, I am concerned about the length of time of the lease. 75 years feels like we are raising funds now from something for which future generations will 'pay'.
Secondly, I believe that over the next 50 years a country's natural resources will play an increasing role in the wealth of that country as populations increase and resources dwindle. In the past we have focused on manufacturing and service sectors as indications of the health of an economy, but as resources become scarce, I suspect that resources, especially renewable resource, will become the key to a healthy economy.
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Gies a job!
;-)
ed
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#126 googlehoo
You are so right about the need for natural resources. You've just to look at the budget horse-trading to see how high in present politics leaving a billion trees for our grandchildren figures, even with the Greens.
So how are we to get the money to plant an extra billion trees?
I've nothing in principle against leasing off our present forests and recycling the money into new forests. The devil is in the detail.
How do we prevent the lease income being used for paying MSP's expenses rather than new forests. Governments can't stand hypothecated cash flows, all cash should be available for the trough!
How do we prevent the disasters of inadequate specification of the obligations of the leases? There is form in the PFI where the early contracts were a total rip off. It could easily happen again and this time it's not 25/30 years but 70/80 years.
How do we ensure that the lessees fulfil their obligations to maintain, replant etc.? Who in their right minds would accept a bank guarantee now extending over 80 years?
But we have to find some way of finding the cash now so we can leave our descendants something other than bare hillsides and Gordon Brown's toxic debt.
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#126 googlehoo
I agree with you there. I don't know the details of this proposed lease, but I would be cautious of such a proposal.
On the other hand, a lease is preferable to a sale of assets.
I agree with your last paragraph too, and if the future does indeed head in that direction it will be all the more important for Scotland to be independent and in full control of these resources.
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Borrow it. And follow the lead nfrom FDR in the last Great Depression by putting those among the unemployed who fancy some healthy outdoor work the opportunity.It might even be that certain former bankers could use the exercise...and as to planting trees...
But the last thing we should consider is losing control of 8% of Scotland (or even 1%). A nation which can't care for its Natural assets has no business calling itself a nation.
For the Trees
ed
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#107 BrianSH
- Surely we have a large unemployed workforce currently paid for by the state?
Couldn't we utilize this to plant to trees and whatnot? -
Don't be sensible!
Given the Treasury response to handing over Council Tax Benefit to allow LIT, we'd be told that tree planting was a job and they'd take away all the workers' JSA and leave the Scottish Parliament to find the money.
Daft, but GB will do anything to keep the Union intact!
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#123 bobbishop
Noted :-)
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From my previous link
'nuff said!Slainte!
ed
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#131
handclapping
I think you will find that the LIT tax proposal has gone with the wind' like so many other SNP promises!
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On the subject of tree planting, there was an article in National Geographic a month or three back about efforts to stem soil erosion in China. Workers were paid for the number of trees planted, so naturally they planted as many as they could as quickly as they could. The result was that many of the saplings blew over in the first wind and a great deal of money was spent without much improvement to the retention of soil.
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#130 Ed
We've just had two blogs on Scotland's inability to borrow, so we are still stuck with where does the money come from.
It's not as bad as "buy two, get the use of one for 25 years" but without good, proper and enforceable requirements built into the leases we would be loosing control of these natural resouces for 70/80 years and if the gov't half-inches the money we'd have nothing to show for it.
As for the Johny Appleseed, bloke tried it in N. Africa; the goats loved it! What is the Scottish goat population, actually should be deer / rabbits / sheep. Amazing that any trees regenerate in Scotland at all.
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REWARDING TALENT
ON another slant of Brian's blog sorry but I still think that although the SNP are hell bent about not taking part in the Lords - which I totally agree with. I still feel that SNP politicians should accept Knighthoods.
I don't altogether agree with the current Honours system but its there and Knights were Knights long before 1707 and the Act of Union.
Alex Salmond is a member of the privy cousel.
I would want nae urge George Reid to be named Sir!
I don't expect a reply from any other posters cos I aint part of the blog.
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Loon (135), I have come across bundles of trees stashed/discarded unplanted in situations where pay was on a piecework basis. Sadly, all too often, supervision and examination of the actual plantings is needed. Such supervision is an added cost, but is usual for paid planting. Grant will not be paid for trees not planted, and if 'establishment' densities are insufficient, the second portion of the grant will be withheld, and the whole grant may be reclaimed in the case of long-term failure...
Of course, when planting is voluntary, fewer trees per day/hour get planted, but usually with a bit more TLC. An experienced planter can plant well and fast.
A blast from the past
;-)
ed
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#134
derkbarker
I think you will find that the SNP intends to fight the next election on their plan to bring in LIT if you have the good sense to find out what you are talking about before you open your mouth.
Masterly strategy.
I had already suggested widely that this is exactly what the SNP should do and I'm over the moon about it.
I'm afraid the BBC is seriously distorting this issue and the corporation continues to sink in my estimation. As always the truth will emerge in good time.
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The Forestry Commission is losing about £6million per week at the moment and our forestry is not being properly developed for the huge economic bonanza it can bring us.
As it takes at least 40 years for a sitka spruce to reach maturity and much longer for better woods leasing for any less than 75 years makes no sense.
I suggest those interested should read the proposals which will lead to more employent in Scottish forestry, many more trees being planted, more mixed plantations and renewal of native species and an actual profit for the nation before posting nonsense prompted by what are little more than lies invented by Labour and the LibDems (who have just incidentally voted in favour of the principle in Parliament).
Leasing is not privatising nor is it selling though the Labout Government at westminster is pushing proposals to seel of the Forestry Commission in England.
Bunch of prize hypocrites
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#140
6 million per week, thats about 312 million a year in losses, are you sure about that sneckedagain or are you just upset about LIT and thought you would throw any figure at us?
Say sonny! is the beaver biting!
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As I expected it is a club as per no reply to my 137 oh well good club take care o' yer members by the way
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#140. sneckedagain
"As it takes at least 40 years for a sitka spruce to reach maturity and much longer for better woods leasing for any less than 75 years makes no sense"
40 years is when they reach approx. maximum annual increment this doesn't make them mature that is usually 70+ years. An economic decision not a silvacultural one.
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#142 rickyross3359
If I knew owt about the subject I'd respond, but I don't so I can't
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#142. rickyross3359
Blame the mods who are determined to turn these blogs into slogs, almost as slow as royal mail.
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#137 rickyross3359
I didn't know what you meant. I am compiling a list of posters who are interested in an online journal - does that include you?
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Rickyross3359... get yourself back home to Ibrox... your mum's shouting that your tea is ready.
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#142 rickyross3359
You made a comment. I read it, fair point - but didn't think it needed a reply.
This blog isn't here to "reward" posters for posting.
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141
The Forestry Commission is losing between £800,000 and £1million per day. I don't make figures up and you must curb your insistence on commenting on every subject when you obviously know very little about most of them .
I live in area of huge Forestry Commission activity. It is not an efficient organisation and progressively over the last couple of decades less well funded. Without borrowing powers the Scottish Government is in no position to provide the level of investment the Forestry Commission needs to make it operate better.
143
Agreed. I should have said harvestable rather than mature
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#137 rickyross3359
So you really did mean that :-P
Well, look on any blog and find kiki_dread. She (?) posts relentlessly...and no one ever replies!
Does she let that stop her?
No!
:-D
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Snecked (140),
Something doesn't add up: From the annual accounts for 2007/8( http://www.forestry.gov.uk/forestry/infd-6ahms9 ):or something just above half a million per week, not 6 million.
Can you substantiate your figure?
Much more information freely available at this link
The following includes Forestry Commission (Grants etc) and Forest Enterprise:Or a net outflow of around 70 million or around 1.3 million a week, including grants, which must surely be classed as "investment"...
Slainte
ed
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#149
You should force the issue, take a look at the link.
[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
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Forty to forty five years produces a sitka spruce in a size which suits modern computer-run sawmills (the largest in Europe is visible from where I type (or rather the glow of its all-night lights is)), and they don't want (can't handle) anything bigger than 18 inches diameter....In its natural state a sitka spruce can easily live for 300m years and grow to 300 feet in height and well over six feet diameter....But we would be better advised to grow quality hardwoods where better land is available, and they are best managed as continuous cover, harvesting the "worst" at around 150 years of age or so...as described here
As to employment, forestry is a rather poor employer, providing around one job in 50 here in the Stewartry from one third of the land....The Indians referenced above do much better, and so could we with more locally added value, etc.
Sorry to go on, but it's a matter close to my heart/mind
Slainte
ed
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Make that 300 years ;-(
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The Drumtochty Sitka
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Handclapping (136),
I'm less interested in "where from" than in "What for". I'm much more prepared to accept going into debt for the purpose of investing than for the purpose of current expenditure, and forests are certainly an example of the former.As to "Where from", perhaps we could issue "Forest Bonds"? I'm sure there are plenty of imaginative possibilities. One major economic problem with Forestry is that we've already used up our natural "birthright" forests, and thus need to re-invest to replenish them, while the "third world" are still able to treat their forests as natural gifts, free of cost and thus available to bidders without the cost impediments under which our forests must operate.
When/if the Third World forests have been finally denuded (if this comes before the Earth has denuded itself of Homo Colossus), they will have to consider re-investing to renew their forests, but in the meantime they can under-bid us. Another reason not to unquestioningly reject "protectionism"? I think so.Food for thought
Slainte
ed
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#153
You're correct. The figures I've heard bandied about by some pretty knowledgeable people in forestry are "per week " and not "per day" as I have mistakenly been using them.
However the fact is that forestry in costing us rather than benefitting us and employs a fraction of what it should employ and is falling down badly in its task of achieving the widely agreed target of doubling the acreage of Scotland under forestry.
Without fiscal autonomy or the powers to borrow we have very few options to get things moving.
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Snecked,
At 27 million p.a. for the management of 8% of Scotland, it comes to something just above a fiver per Scot. I reckon we all get at least that much benefit, but that's a matter of opinion.I agree, but I'm very wary of handing the task to giant corporations (as you will have noted from previous posts).We should concentrate on how our own corporation might be improved, and to bee fair, this is what the Forestry Commission has been doing (to the best of its limited ability) for all the time I have been an observer/commenter (almost four decades).
So first, we need fiscal powers. Then we need more "ordinary folk" to actually take an interest. Most foresters I know are deeply frustrated by the public's almost complete apathy, and leap eagerly upon any show of interest. Actually, where there isn't apathy, there's hostility - from hill walkers who mourn the barren, overgrazed hills to those who complain of the vast swathes of uniform Sitka.
Actually, the forests being planted today are far more "green" and varied than those being complained about. A forester once said to me, "Ah, but you see, in forestry, we have to live with our mistakes for a long time..."
Even in the most hard-nosed commercial plantings today, edges and watercourses must be planted in mostly native hardwoods, a proportion of 'open space' is mandatory, and following clear-felling of large stands planted half-a-century ago, the new planting must avoid the "swathes" of single species. Adjoining stands cannot be felled until at least seven years have passed or there is three meters of new growth....The new rules are much more enlightened. Foresters continue to learn.
If you'd told me thirty years ago that I'd be defending the Forestry Commission, I'd have laughed in your face. Today, I'll share a pint with either 'side'.
Slainte!
ed
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#158 Ed,
Not all hillwalkers mourn the barren, overgrazed hills. We are becoming more enlightened as well, and I personally love the current trend to regenerate native woodland, and wish there was a whole lot more of it. Amongst my walking friends I'd say this feeling is almost universal. Nothing would make me happier than to see our hills swathed in native forests from which the local people could derive a sustainable living.
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Correction to my 159.
One thing would make me happier, and that is if this could come about in an independent Scotland where the people actually have the power and the choice to make things like this happen.
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I think it is a good thing that they don't have any ministerial experience. Sometimes experienced politicians get “stuck” in their own world and don’t notice what is actually going on in the real world. Government should have younger, dynamic, talented people who have achieved something in their life. It doesn’t matter, whether they have managed a school or succeeded in business as long as they can bring something in. However, it probably will be appropriate to place an experienced teacher in charge of schools and experienced buy to let mortgage advisor in charge of finance, etc.
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