It's not easy being Green
Update: And so the budget duly carried - by 123 votes to 2. The two being the Greens.
Intriguingly, there was little jubilation in the chamber on the government benches.
Perhaps it was a sense of dislocation caused by the unexpected experience of Labour and the SNP voting together.
Perhaps it was weariness. Anyway, it's through.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Update: The Greens say they'll vote "No" - unless they receive assurances that the proposed insulation scheme will be free and area-based: that is, not triggered by individual applications.
Right now, they say ministers have dropped this approach. Plus they've now been offered less.
You'll remember the deal on offer last week, eventually, was £22m from the government plus £11m leveraged in from "social partners".
Now it's £15m plus £15m. But the key point, according to the Greens, is that it is a means-tested scheme.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
And then there was one. One party still opposed to the Budget, that is.
And that party would be? The Greens - whose opposition tipped the balance last week.
This morning Labour's Iain Gray added his voice to the litany of support for the £33bn spending package.
Mr Gray freely concedes - how could he otherwise - that he has compromised still further in discussions with the first minister.
A few members of the wicked media suggested to Mr Gray that he had settled for a package eerily similar to what was on offer last week.
To the contrary, said Mr Gray, the deal done today guarantees new apprenticeships for 7,800 people - plus guarantees for apprentices who lose their jobs, money for retraining in struggling areas, a summit on jobs and money for town centre regeneration.
These various ideas have been in the ether for some time but, according to Mr Gray, this is the first time they have all come together.
Cash anxiety
That is true. But it would still appear the offer of 7,800 apprenticeships for a single year was previously made - although not included in the budget bill because there was no deal with Labour.
Still, no matter. Considerable compromise there has been.
There is no guarantee for subsequent years - partly because of anxiety over cash, partly because of concern that Scottish industry may not be able to expand its apprentice system so rapidly.
So what's really changed? As with the Lib Dems yesterday, Labour has taken the temperature - and detected voter disquiet with political machinations at a time of economic crisis.
To grasp the importance of this deal, you have to appreciate the degree of mutual suspicion and hostility between Labour and the SNP.
It's tangible. You can taste it.
Right to the last minute, there were murmurings in Labour ranks, murmurings from senior figures, that the SNP seek to exclude Labour from the emerging consensus.
Formal offer
One even said they reckoned Alex Salmond had two competing spirits on his shoulders: one urging a deal, one counselling mischief.
Ministers are adamant, insistent that they were always eager to reach as wide an accommodation as possible. And so it proved.
Which brings us to the Greens. They have now been made a formal offer with regard to their proposed home insulation package. But it seems that it is less than was on offer last week.
Not surprisingly, given that Mr Swinney has now had to find extra cash to deal with Labour.
Will the Greens vote "no"? I'll get back to you. But the budget carries. And, right now, the Scottish Government will live with that.
I'm 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~00~RS~)
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O' yes there are!
;-)
ed
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"Still, no matter."
Unfortunately, Brian, it does matter - to the people of Scotland.
We have had our country's budget process needlessly delayed just so the petty and vindictive Labour in Scotland could indulge in their pathetic party-political posturing.
The Scottish public will not forget Labour's wilful disregard for people's needs during these especially difficult economic times.
Most people have had it up to the eyeballs with the confrontational politics that achieves nothing for the people but inflated political egos.
If these Labour dinosaurs don't get it they will soon have it spelled out loud and clear at the next Scottish elections.
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Heheh. Tiny fringe party in "Failure to Wield Power Disproportionate to their Size" Shocker.
If this news turns out to be true it will be a deliciously schadenfreude-laden slap to the Greens.
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I'll bet the greens are wondering where it all went wrong.
Did it go wrong because all 3 parties who rejected the budget last week were expecting the others to back it?
Either way, the budget now looks set to pass - and due to the recent irrelevance of the greens - they have been sidelined along with the SNP's offer regarding housing insulation.
Maybe there's a lesson in there for the greens - something of a comprimise between swallowing your pride and looking a gift horse in the mouth.
I can't wait until the next election - where the remnants of the rainbow parliament will disappear into the ether for good.
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up with the requests for a blog on the missing register at Glenrothes you will not put eh Brian?
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Disappointing to hear that money has been diverted from the Greens to Labour.
I hope Swinney isn't punishing them for Harvie's childish behaviour last week. He may be a numptie but the insulation idea is a good one.
Labour should have been told to sling their hook!
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Brian
Are you sure that the apprentices deal is the same as the one Labour rejected last week.
While it is not possible to be 100% accurate, my understanding was that Labour were offered 7800 apprenticeships in 2009 and the same in 2010, and the sticking point was no agreement for 2011.
If so it would appear that Labour are voting yes to a budget that contains less for them than the budget they said no to last week.
You could not make it up.
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Scots wha hae (a budget...finally)
Scott, wha frae discussions fled,
Trots, wham Grey has badly led,
Greens, wi' insulated heads,
Get tae bu*?erie!
Now's the day, and now's the hour:
See the budget battle lour,
See you all, frae Salmond cower -
Bairns and numpties!
Wha thinks Tavish is sae brave?
2p tax cut?! Hear him rave!
Tavish dinnae misbehave!
U-turn for Swinney!
Wha thinks Labour is sae braw?
As Grey spins, we all guffaw!
When will he contract lockjaw?
Gies peace, ya tumshie!
The Opposition grunts and strains,
Electoral prospects doon the drain!
Between them they've scarce got the brains,
O' a chimpanzee!
Hear the proud U-turners crow:
"We're the smartest, doncherknow!"
Grey and Scott, those fine fellows!
Tweedledum an' dee!
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The Green Party lost their edge.
If they were sensible they would have realised the risks when they voted 'No' first time round.
Are the Greens suprised of the offer now?
Lib Dems and Labour are supporting the budget... the Greens better accept the deal or loose everything and that will also include the voters respect.
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Brian
Isn't it amazing? How long have we had the pretendy wee? And now, only now has the penny dropped that the only reason that the Scots are prepared to put up with the Holyrood talking shop is that they all get together to produce the "best" result for us.
Well done the Labour, Conservative + Unionist, Liberal Democrat and Scottish National parties and the independent. We will wait and see if the Green Party can be added to the list of congratulatees.
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I must admit the Patrick Harvie is doing nothing for the Greens post Robin Harper, the whole reason why people voted for the Greens.
His immaturity in debates, asking for a minister's word, when a ministers says something will happen in parliament, this is a matter for record, no need to keep shouting and throwing stones, how clearer can a minister be?
I believe this will be the death nail for smaller parties in the parliament, voters will look to existing parties. And now the SNP have a new ally, in the libs, who needs the Greens...
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Contradiction in terms though it is, there's an interesting article on that rum old cove Charlie Gordon on the Lib Dem Voice (or should that be whisper?) webpage. Also in the Herald.
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" What's really changed " Brian ? What changed was that Labour and the Lib dems might have been forced to fight an election, with I suspect, disastrous results. Now all of a sudden minds become focussed as the danger of falling off the gravy train looms large. The monster loony green party are meanwhile out of the loop and will no doubt exact terrible retribution at the first oppurtunity whether it's in the public interest or not. The opposition parties in Scotland , with possibly the exception of , dare I say it, the Tories, are , to use the words of the great celtic sage John Reid , " Not fit for purpose."
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The Greens were lucky to end up with two MSPs after the last election - all other 'minority interest' parties were swept aside as people realised that they could actually change the Executive/Government rather than simply register a protest vote against the Laberal rabble - but I suspect that the party will rue the public rantings of Mr Harvie (who came across as a maniac looking for an axe to wield) next time we go to the ballot box.
Advice to the Labour and LibDem leaders - if you want to protest against the budget in future (whilst still ensuring that the process is not brought to its knees as this time) - the leaders alone should support (possibly claiming to be putting Scotland's interests before party) whilst ensuring that the party bloc (sans leader) votes against.
--
The budget will be passed, that much is now certain - and it is best for Scotland that it is.
Notwithstanding any enduring misgivings about the respective stances, I commend Messrs Scott and Gray for ultimately realising that politics isn't a playground game; it's people's lives that they are dealing with...
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Im afraid I have no sympathy for the Greens , idology got in the way of good politics. And I hope that the SNP do no let there independence goal get in the way of good political compromise ,I would rather Holyrood have more control over Scotlands affairs by the SNP working with the Lib Dems than Scotland being stuck on the roundabout Labour had planned for us.
A wee note of well done to the Conservatives cant vote for you yet (to tied to Westminster) but well done .
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The Greens are finished in Scotland.
Both Patrick Harvie and Robin Harper have pushed narrow self-interest to the point were it is now impossible to have any meaningful discussions.
Any future green agenda will now be settled by the main parties.
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"So what's really changed? As with the Lib Dems yesterday, Labour has taken the temperature - and detected voter disquiet with political machinations at a time of economic crisis."
Actual story should read: "Terrified Labour Party Accept Original Offer To Avoid Election".
Actual BBC spin is desperately trying to portray Gray as a hero rather than an self-important incompetent.
As to the greens: let them vote against, Patrick Harvie still looks to have signed his party's death warrant at the next election for me (certainly in his own Glasgow 'region' anyway!)
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#7 dubbieside, bang on - they are taking whatever they are offered now because th ey know the alternatives and their even worse for them. Plus the Liberals kinda sold them out when they realised they were facing electoral oblivion first!
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I thought the political farce here in England could not be more childish but reading the recent comments about the present situation taking place in Northern Britain proves that mad or unbalanced people can get elected into the asylum ( paid for by the poor deluded English)at Holyrood
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Forfar-loon, that is phenomenal. I don't agree (at least not 100%) with the content, but happy to acknowledge the skill!
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Loon (8),
Simply Brilliant"
Slainte!
ed
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forfar-loon *8
Brilliant.
The line, Hear the proud U-turners crow is great.
You should try to get someone to sing it and put it on Labour you are a UTube.
Would be a big hit.
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Ironic that the Parish council now accept the all-round deal on the budget it refused to ratify last week.
Clearly the over expensive house of councillors, the Scottish parliament is an incompetent expense that Scotland can not afford in these difficult times.Surely it's wrong to fund one single painting, when so many people face unemployment.
What is the last quote we had on the very expensive tram line being built in Edindburgh and is a tram line more important than say a new forth bridge crossing?.
While we are on the subject of the tram-line does anyone know how got the contract?.
The Parish council full of the Rt Rev, Jolly's
all doom and gloom and far to expensive.
How much does the whole Parliament cost, from the 129 MSP's to the back-room staff.
Chocking the life out of our regional council.
It's very clear that consensus and proportional representation doesn't work and the white collar Parish council is a complete washout, the proverbial white elephant.
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What is the point of the Greens?
In modern politics, ALL political parties espouse environmentalist credentials - because it's a vote-winner!
With the one and only plank of their ideology now crowded by behemoths, all the Greens can do is sit on the sidelines saying "It's not enough!"
'The journey of a thousand miles begins with but a single step,' and we're now well down the road to living within our (natural resource) means, or at least controlling our excesses.
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Minuend (16),
I certainly hope not. Their insistence upon a better deal for insulation may have been a bit clumsily done, but it was and remains a sensible project.The real culprits were the two "serious" parties who thought they could get away with voting "no", without actually bringing the budget down (as I am by no means the first to note).
Had the Greens gone along and voted "yes", the "serious" opposition parties would have had plenty to say about narrow margins and allsorts, while not having risked themselves (or so they thought)
They are wearing those fabled new clothes... and it's chilly.
Schadenfreude is sweet
ed
We labour under the misconception that saving the planet may have to wait until we've saved The Economy. I hope the cart can pull the horse...
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Bovine View
Cooooeee!
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# 19, Such ignorance! I thought you were meant to be a UKIP nutter?!
Illogically attacking the whole Scottish population as somehow "sponging off England" doesn't do your case any good. Especially when the opposite is clearly proven by independent stats and even the reformed GERS report!
Also, England remains a country under your bizarre system I see, but Scotland is transmuted into "North Briton". Hilarious!
Do enjoy being reduced to a bankrupt country, isolated but with continuing delusions of grandeur; once Scotland leaves the unfair and exploitative British state for its more prosperous future!
Just think, then you can keep the pound forever and then restore the old imperial weights system ... its just a shame you will be using wheelbarrows to take said cash to the shops.
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Compared to the Westmonster Junket, the Holyrood Parliament is very cost-effective. Considering that MSPs are paid less, get less in expenses and legislate and oversee the lion's share of Scottish laws and legislation: it is clear it is the London Parliament which is a gross waste of taxpayer's money.
What percentage of laws Scottish Labour MPs vote on do you think concern their constituents? 5% maybe 10%?
Yet - they get paid more, get more in expenses, a less open expenses system (at the moment) and a far lighter workload.
Now, where do you think the part-timers go?
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#8 forfar-loon,
That's the best thing I've read all year. Thanks for the laugh :)
Respect!!
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Maybe we should have a referendum on how well the Scottish parliament has done.
Ask the people, if they feel that the Scottish
parliament has made a difference to their life's.
It seems to me that regional council and society in general are being smothered by additional level of bureaucratic expensive outlets. (parish councils)
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Ref. post 23 from derekbarker;
The buckshot approach will not work here or anywhere else, I'm afraid. If you really want to contribute something to the post you may find that a more focused approach will bring you better results.
In the meantime, as my grandfather used to say when confronted by the bizzare; " Awo and bile yer chuckies".
Best wishes.
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I hope that, once the budget is finally passed, Presiding Officer Alex Fergusson will take a long, hard look at his conduct in this matter.
He has a casting VOTE, but refused to exercise (or indeed exorcise) the responsibility which comes with same; if Parliament wanted to put a Standing Order in place which required a majority of votes cast in order to pass legislation, then that would be in place.
That the 'aye or nay' of legislation can come down to the judgment of the Presiding Officer is both burden and responsibility, but it is his - and his alone - to exercise; citing 'normal practice' is a cop-out, and further belittles both the office and the present holder thereof.
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#24
Forfarian, exactly what is the point in any fringe party, that cant carry their opinions
and beliefes to the people.Surely it's time to end fringe parties like the SNP.
The last thing Scotland needs in this recession(aka depression) is a minority government.
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Forfarian,
Examples, please. I'm afraid my glasses need some tinting. I see little sign of such reform while percapita resource use in "the West" continues to increase...Peace and community
ed
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Derek Barker:
#23.
Thank you Derek. Thank you so much for sticking around, with you here, the rest of us (especailly me) look better.
"Ironic that the Parish council now accept the all-round deal on the budget it refused to ratify last week."
Yes, right after the multiple polls that indicated the public was for the budget, and that the two parties who voted 'No' would come out worse if an election was called...
"Clearly the over expensive house of councillors, the Scottish parliament is an incompetent expense that Scotland can not afford in these difficult times.Surely it's wrong to fund one single painting, when so many people face unemployment."
Yes, democracy bites doesn't it? The Scottish Parliament has demonstrated the benefits of PR, all parties, and independents are able to put forward their views and can not be ignored by the Government (unlikily the Gov has a majority).
I believe Westminister costs more. I say we double our savings and disband the Londin Parliament. At least we have the EU Parliament still standing. I am sure they would not mind taking on some extra roles in the UK, and fill in for Westminister, right?
The painting, bought by the Scottish Government, public donations and other organisationg that are or partly funded by WESTMINISTER (you forget that bit in the last blog) may help encourage international tourism. It's hardly sitting above Gordon Brown's chair in his private office now....
"What is the last quote we had on the very expensive tram line being built in Edindburgh and is a tram line more important than say a new forth bridge crossing?."
I know. Unionists quite clearly put their hatred for the SNP before the people of Scotland. And at a time when we need funds to help the wider economy, can the Unionist Parties please admitt that the Edinburgh Trams are a shambles?
"How much does the whole Parliament cost, from the 129 MSP's to the back-room staff.
Chocking the life out of our regional council."
Quite a fair bit, but I have an idea. I shall become leader, no Emperor of United Kingdom (later to be named Tom's Empire). I will demand to be paid 1mill per year (not including expensives) and I will fullfill the roles of all Parliament. To make further savings I will use the military to enforce my will. I've just got rid of all the councils, and Parliaments. I must have saved a bundle.
How does that sound?
"All Hail Emperor Tom."
"It's very clear that consensus and proportional representation doesn't work..."
Perhaps, China appears to becoming a world super power. Is our type of democracy, and capitalism wrong? It's far better then minority rule that we see from Westminister...
Since when did it become okay for a small group to dictate their views against the majority? or who are capable of ignoring one whole group and carry of governing...
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Post 17,
10/10!!
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Brian,
Should your headline not say:
It's not easy being a (green) tube???
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Now approved, the Scottish Budget will deliver: -
- Help for households to beat the credit crunch, providing extra funding for councils to freeze the Council Tax for another year.
- Another cut in the cost of single prescriptions from April, down from £5 to £4... with 12-month pre-payment certificates cut by £10 to £38.
- Business rates for 120,000 small businesses will be abolished, helping shops and local firms cut costs and protect jobs in these tough times.
- £230 million of accelerated infrastructure spending to keep the Scottish economy moving and support 4,700 jobs.
- Extra funds to help train 1,000 additional police officers, to put more bobbies on the beat and improve safety on our streets.
- £15 million to help provide home insulation for 90,000 homes - targeted on those most in need.
- £16 million to recruit 18,500 new apprentices.
PLUS: -
- £300 million more for the NHS.
- £70 million more to invest in affordable housing.
- £60 million more for town centre renewal.
- £40 million more in funding for free personal care for the elderly.
- A total of £1.8 billion in additional expenditure - securing a total of 35,000 jobs!
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At last Labour have had to appear to be in the loop but really the budget should have been past last week with or without the Green's support. What a waste of time and energy Mr Harvie.
I think it only right that Loft insulation should be means tested and 15 million seems fair as a starter.
Why did the Lib Dems and Labour take so long when weeks ago we knew that they were going to vote against for the sheer hell of it?
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Like my friend and neighbour Ed, I most certainly hope this is not the end of minor parties in the Parliament. I think they are part of what keeps the place honest. And the home insulation proposal is undoubtedly a good one - using less energy from any source is in the long run better all round than building new facilities to generate energy more cleanly.
However, there's no doubt that the Greens mishandled this particular episode. It's a shame, but I think political inexperience showed.
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After following the various debates in the Scottish Parliament, I have decided that I was right to leave my Motherland because of the then dominent Socialist regime and the 65% benefit scrounger population. The First Ministers dream of a Homecoming plan will not work as I like thousand of ex-pat Scots are too ashamed of the current nonsense being enacted in Scotland and will not encourage me to plan a visit with my grand children to educate them in the glorious heritage that hundreds of years of clan history is responsible for part of their genetic makeup.Sad that a proud nation has lost its way and will end up as a Fourth World laughing stock
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Forfarian (32),
I disagree. The P.O. made his interpretation of his duty known in advance, so nobody could credibly accuse him of bias, party or otherwise.
I also happen to agree with his interpretation, but that's another matter.
Slainte
ed
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#32
Surely he should get back to his other job managing a footbal team!
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#30 derekbarker
"Ask the people, if they feel that the Scottish
parliament has made a difference to their life's."
Yes? Their life's what?
You can't have a referendum without a question in it Derek ;-)
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#23 and #30
Who is this person masquerading as derekbarker?
Where is the usual mad rambling nonsense?
Or is it too early in the day for his substance of choice to have kicked in...?
Whatever...
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#23 and #30
Who is this person masquerading as derekbarker?
Where is the usual mad rambling nonsense?
Or is it too early in the day for his substance of choice to have kicked in...?
Whatever...
Two rational, well-made points - a positive contribution, and food for thought.
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#38
cynical, in all fairness the SNP said they would deliver over 300 new police last year.
Actual new police Zilch, Zero, Nil.
Dont hold your breath on any of the said above in your post and the SNP's budget.
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Can anyone tell me the exact time that the Glenrothes story disappeared from the Scottish Politics page ?
I had predicted 4pm in my #146 on "A Done Deal" and would like to know how accurate I was.
C'moan Brian, Gie's a Blog.
(I notice that we now also have a link to "The Best Bits of Newsnicht". That'll be a gey short video then.)
#8 forfar-loon
Outstanding my boy. I had been going to knock off a little ditty myself to the tune of "Mad Dogs and Englishmen" but there are only so many rhymes you can use with "Tavish Scott is a nutter".
Oh, By The Way, has the Northern British BBC mentioned how The Grey Man Saved The World, The Budget, Scottish Democracy and the reputation of the Parly, and wrung, oh just Huuuuge concessions from the weak and vacillating SNP Finance Minister yet ?
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123 - 2 with no abstentions. who were the three missing. I'M DESPERATE TO KNOW!!
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derekbarker
Do you think that your endless repetitive comments impress anyone but yourself?
Do you think, if I say parish council, often enough some other numptie will take up my mantra?
I would like a layer of government removed also, but arguments have to be won by sound reason and debate, none of which, on the evidence of your posts, you are capable.
You sound very much like reluctant expat, or am2 or maybe salmonella, maybe you are all three, but who cares.
You will probably reply but I think the best action to take with your boring repetitive posts is to scroll down past the 50th repetition of parish council.
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Brian, I worry for your sanity. your colleagues on news drive on radio Scotland surpassed themselves tonight.
yet again they told us it was all the greens fault they alone voted down last weeks budget. all 2 of them
but it is OK the labour party got the concessions they were looking for and they alone saved the day and ensured the budget was passed.
they didn't mention the missing register?
maybe their journalistic source isn't carrying that story mmm wonder why?
sid
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#45
aye-write, no point in having a referendum on independence, when less than 25% of Scot's support it.
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#8 forfar-loon
Fantastic - nothing more needs saying really. Why not suggest I M Jolly performs it for Comic Relief?
Next thread, please, Brian.
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derekbarker:
#30.
"Maybe we should have a referendum on how well the Scottish parliament has done."
Do you not feel that the referendum would be a waste of taxpayers money?
What's the purpose? To see who supports the Parliament, or not?
It would be hard to examine and be a reliable indication of the publics feelings about the Scottish Parliament.
Ballot papers do not consist of enough space for people to explain why they are voting the way they do.
For example, I appreciate that we have the Scottish Parliament, but I believe that the Scottish Parliament has to have more powers in order to be effective for the people of Scotland.
Economically and financially we are a sitting duck!
I support the Scottish Parliament in general, and believe we are on the correct path. But am I satisfied? No, I believe more can be done and I will persue that.
But that's not what you are hoping for... You hope that the public vote No in order to close the Parliament, but as I have said you will get mixed reactions and voting No does not mean you are against the Parliament in the same way you are.
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#41, more lies: 65% of Scots are "scroungers on benefits" apparently, very nice touch.
No evidence, no plausible way of proving such a ridiculous claim true.
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#38
Cynic, the "DEJA VU" budget, did the SNP not release something very similar last year.
You know the one with all those broken promises.
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#27
I object to his/her comments. I am not a member of UKIP but support them in Euro elections. My history is one in which he/she are too young to remember. Blowing up ER11
phone boxes in Craigmiller ect, Stealing the Stone of Scone amongst other adventures
was when I was a Republican Scottish Nationalist.However we found we could not excite the support of the dole scrounging socialist brainwashed apathectic population, got fed up and sold out to for a mess of pottage to the Anglo Saxons who bow the knee to the Hanoverian descendants ( Whose numbers included Butcher Cumberland ) Do not question my love of my ancestors from Mull
I will die proud of being A Scot
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Lockduart:
#41.
"After following the various debates in the Scottish Parliament, I have decided that I was right to leave my Motherland because of the then dominent Socialist regime and the 65% benefit scrounger population."
Lot's have changed over the years. Scotland is less socialist, even the SNP and Labour who claim to be socialists have adopted some right wing policies.
Are you suggesting that 65 percent of the Scottish population claims benefits? ...You've been away a long time. Too long perhaps. Your vision of Scotland is nothing that I have witnessed. It's no suprise as I am the new generation, the generation that will be deciding the fate of Scotland (sorry to push you older generations out, but hey I am the voter of tomorro...)
"The First Ministers dream of a Homecoming plan will not work..."
It's not actually SNP-policy. The Homecoming was supported through cross party support. The First Ministers dream...? No... it's ours, and we would like to see people of Scottish origin to take interest in their culture and to encourage others who find out culture and history fantastic to come to Scotland and take part in the events.
Is their a problem for celebrating all things Scottish?
"...as I like thousand of ex-pat Scots are too ashamed of the current nonsense being enacted in Scotland..."
Nonsense? Please explain....
"...and will not encourage me to plan a visit with my grand children to educate them in the glorious heritage that hundreds of years of clan history is responsible for part of their genetic makeup."
That's ashame. There always happens to be one person who spoils the fun for everyone else.
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#41 Lockduart
Could you just take a pen and stick it in your eye - it would be a lot quicker......
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#27
Re My reply to he/she, my Grand Daughter seeing me typing out my post observed you have always been a good ambassador for Scots abroad and not Rab C Nesbitt ( The Scottish Socialist icon)
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#53. derekbarker
"aye-write, no point in having a referendum on independence, when less than 25% of Scot's support it."
Yawn....
I'll let oldnat kick your but over that one.
;-)
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#47, seems the normal or 'real' (I use the term loosely) Derek has returned on post 53 - 25% indeed!
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The Greens day will come, I hope in an independent Scotland. But they must work with the SNP and not isolate themselves.
TDBs
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Derek Barker
#53.
"aye-write, no point in having a referendum on independence, when less than 25% of Scot's support it."
Okay. First things first, polls are not 100 percent correct. For example the Irish vote on the EU Treaty turned out to be refused by the people, despite many polls showing that the people will vote "Yes".
Also lets look at those polls. Less then 50 percent of the people support the status quo. Like usual we see independence with between 30-40 percent and the same for the status qouo. But then we see a huge amount of "I don't know". It will be the undecided who will be the people who decide Scotland's future.
Perhaps you should ask your Labour chums why they do not use Westminister and force Scotland to have a Yes/No question about independence?
Have the vote tomorro, Union wins and the SNP will be embarressed and damaged politically... no longer can they claim what an independent Scotland could do when the majority are proven to be against it.
But hey... Labour are aware that the referendum on independence would be close. Perhaps even already won by the pro-independence movement.
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#58, and I object to you spreading lies about this country! 65% scroungers. Get a grip.
Age alone is clearly no guarantee of wisdom.
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#60
aye-write
Just what I expected from some ill educated failed Leaving certificate socialist buffoon
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lockduart reads just like power_to_the_people on NR's blog. I suspect they are one and the same. Best ignored.
derek, who has finally abandoned Labour policy and wants to end devolution while he fights to retain British jobs for British workers (even though he's actually supporting people who want Lincolnshire jobs for Lincolnshire workers).
Patrick Harvie
So that's 3 irrelevancies mentioned in a single post!
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http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ZI9ZC-oL5KQ/SYmsCusf3CI/AAAAAAAAEMk/-3sYo913q1w/s1600-h/YahhoUS.png
Brown admits "depression"
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some 'blether' this, over an hour processing time per post!
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#41
Might I indicate very clearly that ignorance regularly disfigures this blog and inevitably it is the product of inadequate pseudo Scots who have not in my memory produced one single, reliable and defensible reason why Scotland should not take on the normal responsibility of running its own affairs.
All these people trade in is misinformation, insult and cringing lack of self esteem which thankfully does not infect most intelligent and progressive Scots. The cringing Scot is our enemy and we have nothing to fear if the absolute rubbish Lockduart offers us is the best they can do.
There is nothing in his contribution that could not have been pulled together by a chimpanzee and I doubt if he is in fact a Scot at all.
Onwards and upwards for the little nation that invented the modern world. Perhaps a subsidised travel pass to help us rid ourselves of the cringers might be included in Mr Swinney's next budget.
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#41 Lockduart
If you have managed to escape the "motherland" and be as adventurous to end up....let's say in England..... then you'll be living in a country where the majority of the population are more dependent upon the state and state subvention, than the Scots are.
Indeed the reasons, quite probably, that much of England north of the Home Counties is so impoverished is probably due to that same dependence on the state, which in certain areas is utter and absolute.
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#41 lockduart,
If we could expand your argument. Just how will the glorious heritage improve Scotlands' deep rooted poverty problem.
The current admin are clearly not creating the kind of jobs and social conditions to lift area's like Glasgow east out of the poverty trap. Do the SNP really believe that the coming investment in Glasgow east from the 2014 commonwealth games will eradicate all poverty in that area?.
Just where exactly did that promise to create thousands of skilled jobs in the re-newable energy section go to. Is it on hold?.
Mr Trump may have got his way in Aberdeen however a golf course on the so called gulf coast is hardly a productive measure that will be felt in the run down area's of Dundee.
It is a bit scary when 5 out of ten school leavers end up packing beans on supermarket shelves, Jeez! Mr Tesco is delighted with Mr Swinney's low level approach to school leavers and career's.
What about our American style private home initative, if you cant afford a home buy a cardboard box.
If the SNP are serious about ending PFI and PPP then they will have to increase our local skill's in the council massively, as of yet i see no additional job in local council? or will they simply private tender any new goverment builds out to the private sector?.
You see we can talk all we want to about 18th, new apprenticeships but the reality is, that it's a drop in the ocean and those area's most effected by poverty will still be effected by poverty come the next budget.
Buying a kilt or a tartan bonnet and waving a flag for independence wont cure all of Scotland's ill's.
Did it not sound ridiculous, when the lib/dems said they were sending a letter to Calman to ask if Scotland could borrow money, christ! who will we borrow money off and how much would we borrow.
This strange church that the nationalist are building, where the front preacher is all things to all people, is anything but Jolly.
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#62
aye-write, Mrs Fantastic goes astray again.
"Yawn....
I'll let oldnat kick your but over that one."
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#65
Thomas, can you confirm that Elgin is run like this link suggests.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeCEX79-GmI
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#68
Oldnats wrote
"derek, who has finally abandoned Labour policy and wants to end devolution while he fights to retain British jobs for British workers (even though he's actually supporting people who want Lincolnshire jobs for Lincolnshire workers)."
Oldnat you read the lines wrong. I'm saying that the forefathers of devolution wanted power to be distributed to local people.If you think that an over expensive parliament in Edinburgh constitutes devolution, then you are no more than a glorified tartan tory,
who fell for Blairs nonsense hook line and sinker.
I truely do prefer westminster, debating Scotland's issues rather than the parish council.
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#67 Lockduart
"#60
aye-write
Just what I expected from some ill educated failed Leaving certificate socialist buffoon"
You're right I did fail (rather spectacularly).
I was supposed to be an intepreter/lawyer or some such - yes, funny I know.
Never was any good at doing what I was told however.
So maybe I am stupid, but not in the way you thought.
I am not and have NEVER been a "socialist".
My worry about them is:
Socialist = economic incompetent/incontinent = pi$$es money away = country broke.
(You could vote any way you liked where I grew up but if you voted Labour - OMG! That confirmed your position as a low life imbecile sc*m.)
And I don't fancy taxing myself/husband/the country to destruction.
Now, you were saying I am a socialist...
Look, I have no venom for you. What you said in your #58 rang true:
"However we found we could not excite the support of the dole scrounging socialist brainwashed apathectic population, got fed up and sold out to for a mess of pottage to the Anglo Saxons who bow the knee to the Hanoverian descendants"
I know of many who have or have had that same really strong "been let down" feeling. I do not criticise your emotion.
But, Lockduart, have you noticed times have changed. I have supported independence since I was around five (in 1979). I recall the dull despondancy that followed in those succeeding years - children do.
So I am with you on those strong feelings of being proud to be a Scot. I don't even care if you don't like me, I'd still stand shoulder to shoulder for Scotland's future.
The truth is we are not far away we think from a referendum. This is our big chance.
Still want to cast me aside to the "ignorance tip" now Lochduart?
I don't want to go down your road.
Should I?
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#67, thats right Lockduart, because your 5 and a half minutes of "research" on Scotland uncovered: 1) "65% are on benefits"
2) everyone is a socialist.
Care to tell us if you found that in the Torygraph (Alan Cochrane influenced?), or just lifted it wholesale from xenophobe Kelvin McKenzie's bit?
Tell me ... you really look at the problems and opportunities in modern Scotland and think ... "well clearly Europe and a Hanoverian Monarchy are the problem"?!
The Iraq War? Afghanistan?
Lack of opportunity making the military an artificially attractive option for many?
Trident?
Nuclear Power? Green Energy?
ID cards?
Large-scale brain-drain?
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#73, derekbarker:
"5 out of ten school leavers end up packing beans on supermarket shelves"
...and 65% end up as benefit scroungers.
Methinks something doesn't add up...
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Lockduart
I can just picture you in the pub with all your English mates after you have all finished your morris dancing practice.
Their tame wee jock will amuse them again by running down his own country.
I hope you are happy when they pat you on the head and give you your bonio, you will have surely earned it.
Send your granddaughter to Scotland, let her see what real Scots are like. She might grow up to think that we are all little sniveling wingers like you.
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#74 derekbarker
"#62
aye-write, Mrs Fantastic goes astray again.
"Yawn....
I'll let oldnat kick your but over that one.""
It's Ms.
And what oldnat and I get up to inour spare time is our business, and you have to support independence to join in.
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73.derekbarker
I think your boss is needing help with the depression, torturing terrorists and collecting a soldier from Afghanistan under the official secrets act charged with passing information to an aid worker of the number of civilian casualties (collateral damage). Better run now or you might be next.
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I've been watching this on Newsnight Scotland - the labour party chap has been banging on about this 'significant number' of 8000 apprenticeships. Which is all they wanted out of the budget, which they voted against last time, even though these 8000 aopprecticeships were already there!
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Brian
I have just watched Gray on Newsnight North Britain trying to re write history.
He achieved through his fantastic negotiations and I quote just under 8000 apprenticeships. Following the Labour spin manual if you repeat this often enough you may even convince yourself, so he repeated it about ten times.
The problem for Gray is that last week on the table for definite were 7800 apprenticeships, does he think we are all daft?
He is also trying to put his spin on the Labour "how do we hold a vote of no confidence" his only problem was he had no confidence in his vote of no confidence.
Still I suppose the Record will believe him, though after the last opinion poll, not many other people will.
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Snecked,
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.
-Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Democracy is a device that insures we
shall be governed no better than we deserve.
-George Bernard Shaw
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance
Confucius
Ignorance is a voluntary misfortune
Nicholas Ling
It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in an argument
William G. McAdoo
Minds are like parachutes-they only function when they are open
Thomas Dewar
;-)
ed
(The Mods (who are as Gods) will probably say that's all "off topic")
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Just watched Scottish Questions. What a dirge! If people think the Scottish parliament is bad they shoud watch that for 20 minutes!
What a useless mob, especially the pompous middle english shadow scottish secretary (whoever he is).
What is the point in Jim Murphy.
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75.derekbarker
Labour MPs infatuated with the SNP or was it love at first sight. Swoon!
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Derek Barker:
"The current admin are clearly not creating the kind of jobs and social conditions to lift area's like Glasgow east out of the poverty trap. Do the SNP really believe that the coming investment in Glasgow east from the 2014 commonwealth games will eradicate all poverty in that area?."
The current administration? The Scottish Parliament does not raise her own taxes, has no economic, or financial power and has a budget that is set. What do'you expect?
Glasgow East has been neglected for years, decades even. You can find that under the last Tory Government, Glasgow East fell apart quickly.
The CommonWealth Games shall provide investment and create opportunites that were not there before. With investment, companies will have the resources to train young teenagers at a skill. We may not see immediate improvements, but when the next generations grows up with these skills they will have the chance to earn more then they would without the same opportunity and will live better lives.
Out of poverty? No but we are taking the steps in the right direction.
"Just where exactly did that promise to create thousands of skilled jobs in the re-newable energy section go to. Is it on hold?."
How'd you think the renewable technology has suddenly appeared in Scotland? There is more to come as more plans are accepted by the Scottish Government!
"Mr Trump may have got his way in Aberdeen however a golf course on the so called gulf coast is hardly a productive measure that will be felt in the run down area's of Dundee."
Again, WRONG. For many reasons, Trump will seek a skilled workforce. Dundee is in Scotland, quite close to Aberdeen. Heck, I had (or I should say my father) recently hired a group from Dundee who are willing to travel here to fit in new windows. The money they earn will be spent locally, back home... in Dundee.
"It is a bit scary when 5 out of ten school leavers end up packing beans on supermarket shelves, Jeez! Mr Tesco is delighted with Mr Swinney's low level approach to school leavers and career's."
To be honest there is nothing wrong with your statement. I have friends, some training to be engineers, lawyers, others even learing further about politics. Most work at Asda, few at Tesco.
Question, why do my friends work at the supermarkets? 1. They need the money for their cars/motorbikes. 2. Some pay towards their keep at home 3. Their folks do not give handouts for clothes which we all need etc.
Perhaps you should go to your local supermarket and ask a teen if they go to college, or university. You might a learn a thing or two.
"What about our American style private home initative, if you cant afford a home buy a cardboard box."
The SNP Government, wanting to stop the right to buy? The same Government who has built hundreds of new homes when the last administration built 4 in 8 years?
"Did it not sound ridiculous, when the lib/dems said they were sending a letter to Calman to ask if Scotland could borrow money, christ! who will we borrow money off and how much would we borrow."
Gordon Brown may have good contacts. I wonder where he managed to borrow the hundreds of billions of pounds....
It does make me laugh, I suspect China has been giving out handouts to Britain.
Chinese PM in Britain... Trade agreements signed?
It makes you wonder...
You were all worried that the Bank of China may make a bid for HBOS, well if we do not keep up interest payments then China will effectly own ALL our nationalised banks.
Good times. The UK is practially burning to the ground.
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Derek Barker:
75.
"Thomas, can you confirm that Elgin is run like this link suggests."
No. Elgin is not my 'turf', I am from Aberdeen.
However, 8 years being homeless? Is Moray Council run by the SNP for 8 whole years?
From my research the Scottish National Party has been a minority at the council for sometime.
However I do have a question or questions.
Did the SNP create the right to buy council homes policy?
Are the SNP neglecting their duty and not creating new council homes?
I will answer for you.
The SNP are against the right to buy. Since that policy was introduced it has been more difficult for those in need to be found housing and for the young to get a home of their own.
The SNP has also built more homes then the last administrated managed in the 8 years they were in power for.
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So the little green men have been sidelined again, and the entire legislative body of the UK constitutional sub-unit known as Scotland has shown that pressure of pressing depressing events and depressingly circumscribed funding is pushing environmental considerations a little way down the list of priorities, although the environmental mantra will still be recited and green targets will still be maintained, unless other considerations eventually conspire to overwhelm them.
Given the monumental momentousness of recent global events, which led even the supreme UK overlord to utter what is being referred to as "the D word" in his legislative underhouse yesterday, you must be getting pretty depressed by now.
By now you will have tumbled to the fact that the waves of mindless optimism at the time of the dawning of the new millennium are turning out to be somewhat short of justified by subsequent developments. The theme for this century is not optimism after all but is, in fact, . . . "Depression"! Global depression, in which the template of the future will be forged. Apologies for sounding so Delphic, but it is not that hard to see what is staring you in the face, unless you insist on ignoring it.
Funny how things turn out, isn't it? Except that it is not so funny, really, particularly as the worst is yet to come, as you may have begun to suspect as the new Iranian satellite started bleeping overhead the other day. Fortunately for Scotland, there is "the Edinburgh-Tehran axis" to protect you. Or not, as the case may be.
The main strands of the historic pattern of the unfolding upheaval are already beginning to be perceived by the more perceptive among the population. No, I do not mean Robert Peston. Relax. Through mists of swirling snowflakes one can just about distinguish approaching economic and social disintegration accompanied by protectionist political descent into global disharmony and a reduction of the excess population of the planet as breakdown spreads and re-alignment of economic and political power takes shape in a process akin to a shifting of tectonic plates, leading ultimately to a form of economy perhaps inspired to a degree by the thinking of the little green men who today were sidelined in the Scottish Parliament.
Those who were spurned today will rule the roost tomorrow? You have been warned. The day of the little green men may be coming, even if it may appear at the moment to be going. Improbable? Listen, you are living in a country governed by the Scottish National Party. What was more improbable than that at the dawning of the millennium?
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Derek Barker
#76.
"I'm saying that the forefathers of devolution wanted power to be distributed to local people."
Your are a misguided pup. The purpose of the Scottish Parliament were mainly political. After the Conservative Government, Scots did not want to repeat the situation and independence sounded sweeter.
In the words of Labour, "To stop nationalism dead."
"I truely do prefer westminster, debating Scotland's issues rather than the parish council."
That's the problem. Westminister is the British National Parliament.
Scotland is the minority group. The people who will debate and decide Scottish issues will not be Scots, and won't be living in Scotland, and as a default may not give a hoot about Scotland.
You are quite possibly the worst person to hold discussions with.
It's interesting that you appear against the Scottish Government centrallising everything, then suggest it would be better off if Westminister debates and effectivly controls LOCAL SCOTTISH ISSUES.
It does not make sense.
Please explain why you would prefer English, Irish and Welsh Member of Parliament to debate, discuss and rule issues concerning Scotland?
You may aswell agrue at the same time that Brussels may be the better option and Westminister should hand over all remaining powers.
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aye-write
You shouldn't confuse incompetent Labour Governments (including the present bunch of chancers) with socialism.
The post war Labour government achieved massively and was probably the best UK Government of the last 100 years.
I don't believe any UK Government since then has had the perspicacity to understand it was in charge of a post imperial and failing state and both Tory and Labour have pursued the chimera of ever improving standards of living and more affluence without doing any of the hard things that would have cleared the boards to allow such to come about.
They have both sought to buy power with IOUs they now can't honour.
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#81 aye_write
"what oldnat and I get up to in our spare time is our business"
Lass, you would be fuelling my fantasies, if I was still young enough to remember what the fantasies should be about. :-)
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#92 sneckedagain
The problem with the particular form of socialism espoused by Atlee's government (that both my parents voted for) was it's centralism.
There was a lot of "municipal socialism" around - as in the publicly owned gas and electricity generation - which meant that many essential services in Scotland were in public ownership, but under community control.
Tom Johnstone (probably the greatest ever Scottish Secretary of State) did much to ensure that not all of Scotland's infrastructure was swallowed up by centralism. without him, there would have been little of Scottish identity left.
The tragedy of New Labour is that they abandoned socialism, but maintained their belief in the centralisation of power - the worst of all possible stances.
That derekbarker wants to embrace these worst excesses of centralisation of power in London, is testament to the irrelevance of his party in a modern Scotland.
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#89 Thomas ... i would argue that the right to buy has encouraged a lot of poorer people to be able to buy their homes. Dont forget you only buy the house you have lived in (myself included) . They would have been staying in their house maybe for the rest of their lives either bought or rented anyway. What is wrong is people having more than 1 house. Wealthy people buying houses to let out is wrong. There have been a lot of new houses built in the Huntly area. They are all sitting empty because they are for letting. I dont know about you buy i couldnt afford 500 quid a month to let a house, but the same 500 quid going into my mortgage sounds better to me. The housing crisis will only be fixed if somebody comes up with cheap housing and building companys are willing to build them. Since the world is built on greed that wont happen.
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I think that Brownlee chap summed it up pretty well...
"At Westminster, the defeat of a budget would bring down the government. At Holyrood, it seems, it brings down the opposition - at least, some of them."
As for the mystery of the missing registers, the story did indeed disappear from the politics page about 4 o'clock - as predicted. Lingered a while on the local news for Edinburgh, East and Fife but its gone from there too
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#95
Rabbie, what decade was your house built
and more importantly what type of substances were used to build your home.
All over Scotland homes that were bought through the right to buy in the 80's and 90's
are being condemned and people cant sell them due to hazzardous materials used at the time they were built.
Rabbie, the right to buy may just have been the catalyst to the now depression, the only reason thatcher and her government introduced the right to buy was to off load poor homes and streamline the council's effectiveness. In other words it was a con?.
Equity is shot to pieces and the full burden of home ownership is the mark that modern Scotland will carry for a century.
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#97 Good morning Derek...up nice and early. My house was built in the 50's its built with bricks and i can assure you its quite solid.
I dont think 'the right to buy' will have caused this depression . Its more likely the need for everyone to spend more than they can afford. Credit cards and interest free credit is not good. How can the government encourage more lending when the very reason a lot of people are skint is because they have borrowed to much. Its human nature to want things ..the feelgood factor, but then get into financial trouble. Fair enough business's need money to expand but normal people should not be encouraged to spend more than they can afford through loans. If you want to blame someone you have to look at the banks for taking on the debts of some of Americas sub prime lending companies.
Tell me whats the difference between the Tories streamlining the councils effectiveness by right to buy and Labour handing out all the houses to Housing Associations and private companys.
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We're going to build a fantastic country, the best these islands have ever seen and that makes Englanders like barker and duart sick. Good.
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#85. Ed Iglehart
What do I think of Western civilization? I think it would be a very good idea. -
Gandhi.
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#97 - rabbiehippo - "I don't think the right to buy will have caused this depression"
Caused, maybe not, but it's certainly a contributing factor.
As you say yourself, "Normal people should not be encouraged to spend more than they can afford through loans"
In my view this is exactly what 'right to buy' did - it fanned the asperational flames that have now come to consume the housing/property market. "Human nature . . . the feelgood factor", again as you say, but not one of the better aspects of human nature and one that has been encouraged by successive Tory/Labour governments to the point where it became naked, unsustainable, greed.
More importantly, I think, is that the 'right to buy', by depleting Scotland's Social/Council housing stock removed an essential 'pressure valve' from the economy.
One of the reasons for having social/council housing is that it enables low income/starter families to escape the worst of their debt burden by moving down when times are hard.
Without this option - or with this option much less widely available - households are crippled by payments they can't afford on properties that are no longer increasing in value and, as we're now seeing the banks who gambled blindly on either payments being made or defaulted properties having more value than when they were bought - become crippled themselves by the excess of debt relative to equity in a credit bloated system.
You're right that there's not much difference between losing council/social housing stock to private individuals or losing it to companies/housing associations but two wrongs, as is frequently observed, don't make a right.
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"it's not easy being green" ........ or labour red either.
While they desperately try to spin the massive political embarrassment that has been their performance over the Scottish budget as a win, which only the stupid and members of the clone army will buy, they have been shown as having neither the ability to cope with the reality of the current political landscape in Scotland, nor the bravery or conviction of the principles to push for an election and put their case to the Scottish people .
With the Westminster administration managing to make us the worst-placed of the developing countries (or union of) to cope with the economic downturn and their trained monkeys in Scotland making the usual mess of it, I can hear the mutterings of Private Fraser coming from Labout HQ - "we're aw doomed !"
No wonder the labour supporters on this blog are all coming unhinged
shuggily peg and vote of confidence for Mr Gray ........
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Totally off subject ... but is the BBC anything to do with Scotland at all. Even the front page on the BBC News website is chaos in England and Wales with the snow yet 'some schools closed in Scotland' when its over 200 . Also the Radio 2 news this morning .... ' more heavy snow in Northern England ,Bristol and East Anglia' but nothing about Scotland even tho i was driving through 4 inches of unploughed snow in a blizzard. Grrrr it makes me mad ... and some people wonder why i want independence !!!!
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The Scottish Government.
What music that phrase is to the ears of this Englishman.
The sight of Wee 'Eck purring contentedly away in Holyrood yesterday really warmed the cockles of this Englishmans heart.
What is good for the SNP is also good for us English who also yearn to be politically independent.
Keep up the good work!
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#101 One major contributing factor to the housing problem that i know off is immigrants. Im not racist in any way but my friend needs to get a larger house due to having a boy and a girl who now need a bedroom to themselves and they cant because Polish people are somehow jumping the list. As i said cheaper houses need to be built ...but builders are only interested in 3/4 bedroom houses that cost a fortune . No wonder the situation is bad.
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Rabbiehippo:
#95.
"I would argue that the right to buy has encouraged a lot of poorer people to be able to buy their homes."
Of course. The right to buy was a good policy... on paper. However you are correct, the policy encouraged those living in council homes to purchase their properties. In the long term there is no way we can manage to rebuild the council homes purchased.
I do hope you are not denying that the 'right to buy' has not had an effect on the shortage of homes recently?
Do you not believe that's really when poor people were hurt?
"What is wrong is people having more than 1 house. Wealthy people buying houses to let out is wrong."
You are very wrong here. Letting properties in some cases are peoples incomes. They trade in homes, buy them, let them out and that's their business.
It's not dedicated to the wealthy. I know of people on... 'low' salaries who have bought several properties and are renting them.
After a while going by your logic, I could leave my parent's council home (it's actually private but bare with me), then live in a council home myself. After several years I may decide to purchase my home... after several years my parents could pass away and I could be left with two homes..
Have you thought of this?
"I dont know about you buy i couldnt afford 500 quid a month to let a house, but the same 500 quid going into my mortgage sounds better to me."
Yes. It does sound better. However why do you have to buy a council property?
Should the state provide you with cheap housing?
If you choose to live doing a career which does not afford you a private house, then should you, and you alone live the way to chose?
I don't believe the right to buy works. If you can't afford a house, you can't afford the house. I don't see why the state should give you property at low prices. Unsustainable.
"The housing crisis will only be fixed if somebody comes up with cheap housing and building companys are willing to build them. Since the world is built on greed that wont happen."
It's all about demand. There happens to be many struggling to get onto the property ladder and as a result prices will rise because many want the property.
We simply need more houses, more then enough to fill demand and hopefully as a result prices will fall slightly due to fall in difficulty finding a home.
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At the time of writing, although it's missing from this site's Scotland pages, the By-election registers go missing [timestamp 20:14 Tuesday] story is still linked to from the main Politics [timestamp 10:42 Thursday] pages, although it's only two up from the bottom of the page and clearly soon destined for oblivion.
What's shocking is that there has been no update since Tuesday. Even the Herald finally got around to reporting it yesterday with their Demand for inquiry as Glenrothes by-election register is lost.
Along with other Scottish print media, they now report that the "official register of all those who voted in the crucial Glenrothes by-election in November was lost within days of being handed over by the returning officer to the sheriff clerk in Kirkcaldy, it has been revealed.".
So to add to the other issues involved, we must hope that the promised independent enquiry looks at the issue of why it took two calendar months for the SCS to admit it.
As others have said, these elections are reserved matters and under the control of the Electoral Commission, so this is not a failure of the Scottish Government, making the remarks from NuLab that "an SNP government department lost confidential personal data again" risible. Can their chums in the BBC not at least ask them to justify that slur and update the story responsibly?
Neither the SCS nor the Electoral Commission have anything to say on the matter on their websites.
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#102 googlehoo
Good post and too true.
Even the Scotsman this morning manage a nice put down of Gray's reds in their SNP all smiles as they secure near-unanimous Budget backing, where they say: "Labour had initially demanded 7,800 new apprentices each year for the next three years. Last week, the party was offered what it wanted, but only for one year, not three. This was not good enough for Labour, so the party voted against the Budget. Yesterday, though, having secured other minor concessions around the edge of this same one-year pledge, Labour decided to back the Budget."
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John Constable , we will!
Will you?
Would'nt our world be a better place with three contented ,independent countries side by side?
The English and Welsh would be our allies and friends , not too sure how Northern
Ireland would fit in theirs being the most complex relationship ,but friends non the less!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#105 rabbiehippo
We need prefabs. Take a design like the "Weetabix school" and make it into a 2 bed home to the specifications for the elderly and wheelchair users. Put a block of 6 of them up on an acre on farmland outside every village with a primary school.
Not only solves the problem of the lack of affordable rural housing for the people who actually live and work there but eases the pressure on the towns as people would move out to live in the country.
Trouble would be getting all the councils to buy in so you could get a guaranteed 60,000 of them and make them really cheap.
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As anticipated, the Glenrothes story has also now dropped off the list on this site's main Politics page [timestamp 12:13 Thursday] - perhaps someone reads these comments after all but a pity they don't act on them.
Having just watched Gray's miserable performance on FMQs only increases my astonishment that anyone thinks his party has any credibility whatsover left.
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#101 - I might suggest, only slightly facetiously, that the incumbent Westminster government are well on their way to solving the wider immigration problem by, somewhat pyrrically, making the UK a significantly worse economic and social prospect than countries elsewhere in the EU.
Poland's immigration problems are, I suspect, just beginning.
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Just watched FMQs, and while I am not a fan of the parliamentary debates in general, I was pleasantly surprised by the tone and level of discussion.
It made a change from the usual school ground antics and was a breath of fresh air in comparison to the circus that is Westminster.
It was very interesting to note (and was mentioned in the post-game analysis) that Alex Salmond and Tavish Scott were not as adversarial as they have been in the past - perhaps a new, fledgling alliance on some areas of policy ......
Iain Gray was as usual, all at sea, and seems incapable of dealing with Salmond, and Auntie Annabel was on her usual form, trying to force the FM to meet with the PM (or even Capn. Darling) to discuss the economy - I think she knew from the start that she was on a hiding to nothing there, she just wanted to make the point that 'call me Dave' is willing to work with whomever is the FM when he get Gordon's job.
Lastly, the leader of the Greens (can't remember his name) sat in his seat with a face like thunder - obviously not a happy man. He looked like someone has stolen his favourite toy and I suspect that there will be retribution for the SNP over the whole budget affair if the Greens find themselves as the balancing vote in the future.
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Brian
The one person who comes out of this budget with real credit is John Swinney. After the support of the Lib Dems was secure, he could have rubbed Labour and the Greens noses in it, as I, and I suspect many SNP supporters would have liked, possibly including Alex Salmond.
In resisting this temptation he showed true statesmanship and should be applauded by all people who wish to see the Scottish Parliament grow and prosper.
Will Labour really learn a lesson from this, and also the polls that followed? I don't know but I am not holding my breath. That would take maturity and common sense, both qualities that if not lacking in the Labour ranks, are surely being well hidden.
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#112 Brownedov
As we have been told so often by certain people on these boards, there is no cynical burying of inconvenient truths by the BBC.
Unless, that is, you are the sort of person who is incapable of ignoring it happening right in front of your face!
If people are predicting it is going to happen, publicly commenting on it as it happens, then confirming it has happened, then it's getting beyond a joke.
If that sort of process is acceptable as proof of a fact for the world's scientific community, then it's good enough for me.
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DisgustedDorothy @ 109
I'm afraid my fellow native English kin are far too apathetic about politics to stir from their slumbers.
That is why we English are currently witnessing England being run mostly by expat Scottish professional politicians.
As I see it, the only hope for those of us native English who want English independence, within the framework of the EU, is for the SNP to succeed in Scotland and correspondingly Plaid in Wales.
Which will free us all.
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#112 Brownedov
Did you actually watch FMQs or is that just the standard cut and paste comment on Mr Gray that you slot into your blog comments every week at this time, irrespective?
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#112 Brownedov
Standing by waiting for Brian Taylor to tell us all what a creditable performance Gray has just put in at FMQs. Which is fine, except it doesn't tally with the evidence provided by your own eyes.
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#93 oldnat
"#81 aye_write
"what oldnat and I get up to in our spare time is our business"
"Lass, you would be fuelling my fantasies, if I was still young enough to remember what the fantasies should be about. :-)"
My comment, admittedly poorly put, was supposed to peeve Derek off, and not be a rather feeble attempt at flirting (I'd have made a better job!).
Now where is that book "Staying Married for Dummies"? ;-)
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Further to Brownedov's post at 107:
The election register story as 'registered' with many outwith the political spectrum.
This is similar to the way Labour and the Lib Dems behaviour over budget vote seeped into mainstream Scottish society.
Both of these stories are clearly hugely significant, so much so that ordinary Scots are aware of them. Yet, the Scottish media singularly refuse to acknowledge their importance.
That not one paper has headlined Labour's humiliating budget 'U' turn is not surprising to those of us who have long since recognised their agenda.
The missing register story has deeper and more worrying implications though. For this potentially strikes at the heart of our democratic process.
The media in Scotland are either not aware of the implications of such registers disappearing or, more worryingly (and probable), they are ignoring them.
What reasons can they have for continuing with this stance?
It is becoming apparent that, in terms of political coverage, the media in Scotland exists as a means of bolstering the Union. Events that may suggest the undermining of the democratic process in Scotland will be buried if, by investigating them, the Union may be undermined.
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"The Budget carries- and right now, the Scottish Government will live with that".
Brian, I'm tempted to say that they certainly will, for the whole process has shown that Northern British NuLab, The Liberals and the Greens put their own partisan interests above those of the people of Scotland.
And then the what can only be politely described as Undignified thrashing around by the Liberals and Northern British NuLab to do anything, ANYTHING to avoid even the remotest possibility of the whole thing leading to an Election.
We also saw the unedifying spectacle of Patrick and Robin sitting at the back scowling like Maw had taken their sweeties away at Decision Time. Still not doing yourselves any favours, gentlemen. Just as well there are 2 and a bit years to go, eh ?
IMHO, the whole thing has merely hastened the Glorious Day.
It can't have gone un-noticed by the Scottish Public that the caliber of Northern British NuLab and the Liberals is so low that they look like silly wee kids.
However, even given that most of Northern British NuLab cut their political teeth in the One-Party-State Councils of the West of Scotland, they still seem not to have sussed that they actually don't control the Parly anymore.
Has the delegation from the Liberals been knocking at Nicol Who?s office yet asking him to spend more time with his party and less with his family ? They are going nowhere under Tavish as leader and I wonder if they have twigged that fact ?
Agree with brownedov RE: The Grey Man. Another outstanding performance, rapidly growing into the role of The Leader of the Northern British Labour Party in The Scottish Parliament and living up to the lamentable standards of his predecessors, (The Late DD excepted, rest his specs). Isn't it about time in their internal cycle that he was replaced anyway ?
Will he be jetting off down to London (Or Getting His Lordship the List Member for the Lothians to drive him down so's he can claim the exes ?) for "urgent discussions" ? I think we should have an Opposition Question Time where the Government get to ask "When will the Leader of the Northern British NuLab Party in the Scottish parliament next be meeting the Prime Minister, and what will they be discussing ?"
(I think we should be told. After all, if The Grey Man wanted to be FM, he should at least get a bit of practice in at answering questions because dampty sure that he can't ask them !)
Oh, did we mention that the Glenrothes story seems to have been killed off ? It's quite easy. What went wrong, why, who's responsible and what can we do to make sure that it doesn't happen again. When and if the registers finally reappear, I'm sure that forensic examination Will reveal that all was well, but can we just make sure please ?
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#111 handclapping
Excellent idea. Not only would it be cost effective, with modern materials it would be eco-friendly and need not be a "blot on the landscape".
Obviously councils would have to designate the land but Housing Associations could help to drive and run the project, perhaps using some of the funding given to refloat the banks at very very low, preferential interest rates for what would be a virtually no-risk venture.
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#115 dubbieside
Excellent comment, and I particularly liked your "maturity and common sense, both qualities that if not lacking in the Labour ranks, are surely being well hidden" - how true.
#116 bighullabaloo
Sadly true, but at least they allow us on these threads to report on what other media are saying - better than nothing, I suppose. If this really is a non-story it would be better for auntie to put it all in one place with some legal commentary.
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#118 salmondella
"Did you actually watch FMQs or is that just the standard cut and paste comment on Mr Gray that you slot into your blog comments every week at this time, irrespective?"
Yep, watched it live thanks to http://www.holyrood.tv/
Us expats can't watch on the iPlayer thanks to IP restrictions except for radio.
I'm afraid I've never seen a speech from Gray that was better that mediocre. If you have seen stirring oratory from him and have a link, I'll happily watch and give you my feedback.
#119 bighullabaloo
For the new thread, I think.
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<RICHPOST><BLOCKQUOTE><I>"Dear BBC Blog contributor,<BR /><BR />Thank you for contributing to a BBC Blog. Unfortunately we've had to remove your content below...<BR />If you can rewrite your contribution to remove the problem, we'd be happy for you to post it again.<BR />...<BR />Regards,<BR /><BR />The BBC Blog Team"</I></BLOCKQUOTE><B>It would be helpful if they told me (as they usually do) what the problem was) - any ideas?</B><BR /><BR />Posting:<BR />Oldnat,<BLOCKQUOTE><I>" The problem with the particular form of socialism espoused by Atlee's government (that both my parents voted for) was it's centralism....<BR />The tragedy of New Labour is that they abandoned socialism, but maintained their belief in the centralisation of power - the worst of all possible stances."</I></BLOCKQUOTE>That reminds me, <BLOCKQUOTE><I>"By now it should be pretty obvious that central planning is of a piece with absentee ownership and does not work.<BR /><BR /><A HREF="http://home2.btconnect.com/tipiglen/forward.html"><B>-- Wendell Berry</B></A></I></BLOCKQUOTE>and, [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]"In central government culture, agencies and all, The career structure is largely colonial, where movement towards the centre is regarded as advancement. This does not relate to rural situations, where movement towards home is more difficult, but infinitely more worthwhile...." </I></BLOCKQUOTE>Just thoughts<BR />ed </RICHPOST>
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#121 greenockboy
Absolutely, which is what I find so perplexing, in the same way that I find Duff Gordon's inability to apologise for anything inexplicable.
Clearing the air and coming clean with the facts always offers some hope for future recovery.
Denying or trying to bury them always leaves a sour taste and future suspicions.
Mods seem slow just now, so will aim to look back later.
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Brownedov, Chiefy, etc. -
Looking at some of the previous comments, it seems to me people are rapidly losing patience with BBC Scotland's burying of stories and facts the journalists don't like. Unfortunately for them the public are too sophisticated now to swallow such practices of distorting news by ommission and emphasis.
I think the ordinary populace, and I mean those who don't usually pay a lot of close attention to political matters, are willing to accept a certain amount of distortion of the facts in the media.
But in my view we're getting close to the point where the trust of those people is being so abused that they aren't going to put up with it any more. The fabrications and distortions are becoming too obvious, too ridiculous and too frequent.
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#121. greenockboy
Scottish Parliament 2004
Found above link via here.
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#111
Yes Handclapping, good idea! what about the use of natural materials, log cabins, you can build some fantasic endurance tested log cabins in nowadays, that also have all the amenities that a community of various people would need.
I would also suggest a return to traditional buildings within the town,s and cities.
And of course traditional craft apprenticeships.
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At the risk of duplication, I've found the error in my previous post, an extra "l" (htmll) ;-(
That reminds me, and, one of my own,Just thoughtsHeerewith corrected ;-) Excuse crosss possstingg
Oldnat,
ed
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#125, Brownedov:
"I'm afraid I've never seen a speech from Gray that was better that mediocre."
I must have missed that one, since 'mediocre' is a height I have yet to see Mr Gray scale.
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Brownedov,
Sentence could use some work. It is neither hard to understand an inability to apologise for the inexplicable, nor is Broon's inability inexplicable...;-)Dead slow.Slainte
ed
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Brian
Post 131 still not moderated. Could the BBC not dispense with J.Ross; we could get 10 dozen extra mods for that money.
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Brian
That's the full 3 hours now. It's happened before on the midnight shift but on a working weekday afternoon! We're not going to get the after-dinner speakers 'till past midnight at this rate.
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#132 The_Forfarian
"I must have missed that one, since 'mediocre' is a height I have yet to see Mr Gray scale."
ROFL and point taken - I was only trying to be polite.
#133 Ed Iglehart
"Sentence could use some work."
Quite right. Too hasty with the post button again.
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#134 handclapping
Seconded!
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#92 sneckedagain
"aye-write
"You shouldn't confuse incompetent Labour Governments (including the present bunch of chancers) with socialism.
The post war Labour government achieved massively and was probably the best UK Government of the last 100 years."
sneckedagain,
Please know that I posted my original rant re socialism in order to guilt Lockduart into a suitable change of heart (or momentary murmur!).
I have no such strong feelings against policy with a social conscience, just misgivings - but I have them about most things.
I thank you for your information re Labour post war. I remember something about that in one of Andrew Marr's documentaries on Britain. You remind me, I must remind myself ;-)
"I don't believe any UK Government since then has had the perspicacity to understand it was in charge of a post imperial and failing state and both Tory and Labour have pursued the chimera of ever improving standards of living and more affluence without doing any of the hard things that would have cleared the boards to allow such to come about.
They have both sought to buy power with IOUs they now can't honour."
I'd be a fool however not to wholeheartedly agree with the rest of your sentiments above.
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Everyone
Re council housing.
It is a fairly important point to make I think that the concept of social housing should be for its specific social purpose i.e. NOT as a lifestyle choice.
I'd hope that those who NEED this hand should get it, i.e. those who are on the road but not yet ready to buy, or have fallen on hard times etc. etc.
I do not believe in the principle of a right to a council house as a 'settling down' decision. It flies in the face of those who work damn hard to afford a house, then work damn hard to replace the kitchen, replace the bathroom, change the windows etc.
I am not against helping those, in part through our family's large tax burden, who need it. That is admirable and a respectable part of a civilised caring society to boot.
But it's a bit rich (pardon the phrase) to watch as dedicated council tenants get all their home improvements handed to them on a plate. Surely this is the principle taken too far.
I'd advise to look closely at having these duplicitous systems, as only resentment will ensue.
PS I appreciate the complexity of the situations of those seeking to 'move on' from long term unemployment etc. perhaps, and how it is hard to step forward away from this lifestyle to the next.
But, by the same token, I'm not at all convinced that I don't also sometimes see no desire whatsoever in some sectors to aspire towards or achieve this. Efforts to help that would be ones perhaps better spent?
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#111 Handclapping .... aye something along the lines of prefabs is what i thought would work . One bedroom jobbies for all the single folks or couples and leave the better bigger houses for familys. Make them enviromentally sound whilst your at it. Its the only way to sort out the housing problem.
#106 Thomas... as it happens i now have a well paid job. The problem is that i also now have debt. When you move out of your mammies house and have to find a house of your own ...good luck. Life is not as rosy as you seem to have it. Cheers
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#139 re 'dedicated housing tenants getting all their home improvements handed on a plate' . When we bought our house the kitchen was 10 years old and the bathroom from 19oatcake. It had a crappy old fireplace and the windows are starting to need replacing. We have taken the liability off the council now to fix all those things by buying the house we lived in for the previous 10 years. The fact that the rent had more than doubled from when we moved in was a contributing factor in our decision to buy. Anyway ive had my say, but its easy for people to critizise when they are wrapped up in cotton wool.
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#141 rabbiehippo
I'm not sure how I am criticising you. You decided not to moan and complain and put up with your 'crappy' bits. OK, maybe they (council) weren't immediately forthcoming with the new stuff - it tends to come in a block roll out? You wait but you get. I've seen what I describe in Macduff and around. It was new door and windows. Hand outs.
Re your jibe. We pay our way.
Have you tried life with one wage and four children 2-7?
Wrapped up in cotton wool it AIN'T.
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142 Sorry there i didnt make myself clear. My cotton wool comment was aimed at Thomas_Porter who was rather quick to point out that if you cant afford a house you should be buying one. From someone who is quite young and stays with his parents i think going out and living by yourself and having to pay for so much its quite a shock. I have 2 kids myself and until i started getting family tax we really struggled. There are not many jobs in small towns like Turriff and Huntly so unless you want to live in Aberdeen (where i work) and you are put by the council in a house in the country you have to commute. Fair enough Thomas thinks that the right to buy is wrong but ive taken advantage of it and i think i deserve it since ive been paying taxes since i was 18. Cheers
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#143 rabbiehippo
Ah! Sorry. Got you now.
I know where you describe - went to Academy in Turriff (hated). Between '86 and '92 for your interest. Husband commutes in to town (Aberdeen). Know the areas.
Thomas I think, though sounding good often, rides on the back of someone he knows well (his Dad?) who is involved in politics, who he, how shall I say, absorbes information from and uses as his with his undenied skill, but it's somewhat transparent nonetheless.
I bear no grudge, I ought to have done more learning of this sort when I was his age. But a fall does you no harm, and I at least have that badge.
Re council houses, I am not sure how right to buy sits with me. My husband's mum and dad bought there's in Ayrshire. I think it depends very much on the context of the sale as regards the other systems in place i.e. why are the houses being sold, do we need to keep it or sell, is there still adequate council housing left etc. The answers to these points go towards determining the rights and wrongs of it for me.
:-)
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#125 Brownedov
Well the papers lead on the "Salmond Slump" from yesterday's FMQs so maybe it is time for you to remove your blinkers and take a more objective view. Maybe it would be easier for you to do that if you actually lived here?
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#144 I know Thomas is a good loon and probably holds that 'the right to buy' is an evil tory policy and i too dont bear grudges. I think cheap social houseing is whats needed. Something that can be put up quickly but not like in the states where they have lots of people living in trailers.Something permanent. At the end of the day money is sqaundered on lots of other things and various tax scams are being carried out by big business all over and nobody seems to care. I dont think selling a house to people who have looked after it for 10 years at a discount price is necessary a bad thing . Besides if they can afford to buy it they are hardly gonna be dole scroungers .
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#146 rabbiehippo
True :-)
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#145 salmondella
I'm afraid I don't get any papers except the FT on a Saturday, but if you could put in which of the papers are leading on this "Salmond Slump", I'd be interested to have a look.
I misread it at first and was looking for a salmon slump which didn't help.
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#145 salmondella
"Well the papers lead on the "Salmond Slump" from yesterday's FMQs so maybe it is time for you to remove your blinkers and take a more objective view."
Sorry? Care to quote a source and/or a URL?
I had a skim through the Scottish media websites this morning and noticed nothing along the lines you suggest.
With the mods so slow, I just had another more detailed look via the links on this website's What the Scottish papers say. On the Herald, Scotsman, Daily Record, Press & Journal and Courier websites I found nothing along the lines you suggest.
If anything, I thought they all seemed less stridently anti-SNP than usual, with even the Herald saying things like: "Labour were forced into an embarrassing reverse as MSPs overwhelmingly passed the government's budget at the second time of asking".
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No 145
Typical from you. So the recession is partly Alex Salmonds fault not Gordon( 'I won't deal with an SNP government') Broon's. Whatever GB does seems to have a detrimental effect on his countrymen. You take your blinkers off(don't believe the hype, make up your own mind). What do you expect the Scots Govt. to do? Most of the budget is allocated already. Give us more of OUR own money and we will do what's best for all Scots. Just can't get through to some folk!
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The problem of selling council houses was that the policy was not thought through.
No council was going to build council houses if this cost (say) £60,000 per unit when they then had to sell it for £30,000 and they didn't even get that money back.
So they all stopped building and now we have a huge shortage of social housing as a result of that.
There should have been a clause inserted that those who bought council houses could only realise what they had paid if they sold it and any profit went back to the council.
Many people bought these cheap council houses with the express intention of making a lot of money selling which had nothing to do with the supposed aims of the policy. The government should have underwritten the scheme by ensuring that for every council house sold the council had to build a replacement and had the money to to do so.
Despite some benefits from this scheme - and it is an undoubted fact that people look after homes they own rather better than ones they rent - the real reason for it was to break the power the huge Labour authorities execised through housing and to make lots of little Tories.
Sadly what has happened is that all the best properties are sold and he local authorities are left with inadequate resources to look after the dumps that are left . But then again anybody with half a functioning brain could have worked out that this was exactly what would happen.
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The slow moderation is in danger of killing this blog
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#148 handclapping
"I misread it at first and was looking for a salmon slump which didn't help."
That is funny! Imagine though if you'd found it and then posted back about it ;-D
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First Minister accused of creating a 'Salmond slump' in new schools and road building
Labour blaims 'Salmond Slump' on lack of cash for big building projects
Sleaze! nothing more than clutching at straws to try and blame the SNP for all of labours dismal failings.
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Since your on about housing hows this! Council house tenants offered £30,000 bribes to move out
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#154 cynicalHighlander
#155 cynicalHighlander
sh!t
and
thick
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#145 salmondella
PS to my #149. Sorry - I hadn't looked at the London media, virtually all of which is staunchly unionist.
However, when you say "maybe it is time for you to remove your blinkers and take a more objective view" I suggest that you will get even less objectivity when viewed from London than you will from a small, landlocked, democratic country in Europe surrounded by much larger neighbours but greatly envied by most of them.
#154 cynicalHighlander
Thanks for the links.
Odd that the Torygraph has such a love affair with the PFI (oft criticised by the English Tories) and Gray (to be fair, perhaps less idiotic than his master), but their unionism must be even stronger than their hatred for the "socialists".
The Thunderer article seems much the same.
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From the links posted, it would seem that the term "Salmond Slump" did not emerge from the imaginative minds of the journalists involved, but from NuLab's immense creativity....
Yuk!
ed
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#157 Brownedov
Not so odd;
PFI: private, cue the Barclays, profitable, cue big bonuses for the boys in the banks, so worth support.
Gray: they were always for leaders not followers, cue total worship of Maggie
unionism: without Scotland the UK-S is not on for the top table anywhere even if they can afford Trident on there own and have somewhere to park it, cue flag waving jingoism and we all listened to the ( o'clock news during the war
socialism: so long since we had any they think it is a sort of pinko Tory, cue fooled by the "Labour" in the name of the present gov't.
The interesting thing is that it's the London media that have picked up on this "Salmond Slump" from the LP briefing notes. They probably think they can get away with reprpoducing LP spin as none of their readers will notice. The Scots media are begining wake up to the fact that people can read the LP website news and are noticing when the LP words are reproduced verbatim as "journalistic output".
I wonder how fast the readership of the "qualities" will fall off now the the "crisis" has passed and we just have to slog our way through the depr / rec ession
Having had a foray through the media I'm quite happy to do without apart from the local weekly and the Sat FT
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Rabbiehippo and Aye_write:
I do not believe the 'right to buy' is an evil Tory conspiracy or a terrible policy in general.
However I am young, at the moment I could be looking to move into private housing in 3 or 4 years (depending on circumstances).
And I do not think either of you would deny that housing is expensive (more so then 10 years ago) and the overall amount of council homes have fallen.
What am I suppose to do?
I do not have enough experience or the qaulifications to walk into a top job and pay 200k for a normal family home in Aberdeen.
Council housing would be an option, but due to demand from migrants, and thanks to the right to buy... well you see how difficult it will be for me.
The right to buy has to be stopped (it's against human rights denying migrants homes) untill demand falls below supplies. Then maybe it could then be introduced.
Let's not forget the purpose of council homes ;-)
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Of course, silly me, it is all due to a media conspiracy that the 'Salmond Slump' was the key point picked up from FMQs ;-)
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#161 salmondella ( I remembered about the d!)
Don't worry. We all look silly sometimes, particularly as we get older. Don't let it get to you. Keep on posting. 8-)
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#158 Ed Iglehart
Yep. It all seems to come from a Scottish Labour press release: SNP donors criticise Salmond slump. I see they also have an RSS feed - which I guess is how the Torygraph and the Thunderer got hold of it and printed it more or less unchanged on an otherwise slow news day.
#159 handclapping
Points taken - I must have switched off my analytical engine for the week-end.
#161 salmondella
OK - the Official Report on FMQs confirms that near the end of his 4th question he said: "In Scotland, the credit crunch comes on top of the Salmond slump". It clearly passed me by as I watched, and Brian clearly didn't think it worth a new thread - I wonder if he noticed it.
Time to move this discussion to the newer thread, I think.
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The phantasy Salmond Slump is meant as a a direct contrast to the fragile Brown Bounce which is now the Brown Bust. Despite continuous attempts in all the media to insist that "the honeymoon is over" and the SNP is in retreat and there is a Salmond slump opinion polls doggedly and stubbornly show the SNP in a much stronger position than it was before the Scottish Parliament election and all the paper talk in the world won't change that for many of the thrawn Scots.
The basic word on the street is that the SNP is doing its best in very difficult circumstances.
The SNP is going through a fire storm of dishonest media bias at the moment but this is having a steadily diminishing return.
Eeven the Herald and the BBC, both of which maintained a limited degree of integrity until fairly recently, have fallen.
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#160 Thomas_Porter
Em, why don't you rent like everybody else did?
Save up (good for you) and see how go?
Is your dad in the SNP?
:-)
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#164 sneckedagain.
Well! Well! snakey, you old rattle, put your fork tongue away and speak the truth.
Wee wobbling eck has lost the argument and is on the edge, the people dont like his arrogant way and wee, wee, wee Nicola is
stocking the horse.
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aye_write
#165.
"Em, why don't you rent like everybody else did?"
It would be practically impossible. In Aberdeen you may be looking at over 400 pounds monthly for a one bedroom flat. Even that is not certain because of the amount of skilled labour in Aberdeen. Thousands upon thousands of Poles have came to Aberdeen, and I am not counting the amount of other nationalities such as Romanian or Bulgarian.
"Save up (good for you) and see how go?"
I'm good with money. I love money, more I have the happier I am. But even with what I make I could not afford to live alone long term unless I was in a council home.
"Is your dad in the SNP?"
Nope, Conservative.
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#169
Not a chance aye-write! I'd have her purring like a cheshire, meaow!
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#170 Thomas_Porter
OK Thom, but I have done the renting in Aberdeen thing.
You can share a house or flat with a room to yourself and shared living/kitchen quarters.
My husband has a cr*ppy bedsit when he first moved up (since been pulled down) as it was that or don't take the job he'd got. Even after three years in job, when he had to move he could only afford to rent a room.
He wasn't too good for that (he now earns a lot).
Now we are in agreement on here I think that you seem intelligent (I for one am quite jealous), so how come you haven't come up with this already. Btw, my brother currently rents in Aberdeen and my two sisters also did, so it's sh!t I know, but remember it's only a stepping stone :-)
PS Interesting Conservative. Well, better than Labour!
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#166
I have no idea what your recent posts are about. Have you had a scoop or two?
It's "stalking " as in "stalking horse" not
"stocking".
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#172
No! what part of insightful political means do you bring, apart from the Scottish jobs for Scottish people one.
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#175
Well you old snake you got you leg around that one.........Hssssss
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#175 sneckedagain
Probably best left to derek and the mods to decide whether what he actually wrote is a libel.
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Aye_write:
#173.
"You can share a house or flat with a room to yourself and shared living/kitchen quarters.
Now we are in agreement on here I think that you seem intelligent (I for one am quite jealous), so how come you haven't come up with this already. Btw, my brother currently rents in Aberdeen and my two sisters also did, so it's sh!t I know, but remember it's only a stepping stone :-)
PS Interesting Conservative. Well, better than Labour!"
I would not mind sharing a house or renting a room. However I am slightly old fashioned and I would prefer settling down and having a family during my 20's. It's possible that by going to University and in 4-6 years I could be earning around about 30k annually at least. But it seems these days young people do have to live at home longer because the world has became more of an expensive place.
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Neil's post on the Relaxation thread timed at 1903 appeared at 2145. Thomas post above timed at 1904 appeared at 2214.
Half an hour to deal with one minute's posts!
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