Comfort food
Agriculture, we learn today, is primarily about the provision of food. Well, that's a comfort.
For this searing analysis, we are indebted to the Scottish Government and, in particular, to Rural Affairs Secretary Richard Lochhead who has been addressing a conference in Oxford.
Ach, stop it, Brian. Enough of this urban cynicism. Mr Lochhead is striving to promote an industry which is worth some £7.5bn to the Scottish economy.
I freely confess that my knowledge of rural matters is not great, despite my being the grandson of an Angus farm grieve.
From him and his kin, I learned sundry songs and rural lore. Even today, I can sing all the words of "Nicky Tams", that magnificent ballad of Angus country life.
As a coy loon on the Press and Journal in Aberdeen, I occasionally subbed the fish prices. Ling, coley, gutted haddock, round haddock and the rest.
Calamity to get them wrong.
Serious gig
At a still younger age, I was wont to pick berries in Blairgowrie and at small-holdings near Dundee. However, that's about as far as it goes.
But back to Mr Lochhead. The Oxford conference is a serious gig with speakers from the EU and the UK Cabinet alongside the Scottish governmental contribution.
Mr Lochhead's core argument is that the interests of Scotland diverge in this sector from policies which he attributes to his UK counterparts.
No surprise there, given that he is a Nationalist. He seeks further powers for the Scottish Parliament in this sector.
However, his detailed analysis is intriguing - and perhaps worthy of further debate.
The minister asserts that UK ministers are backing a relatively speedy end to farming subsidies as part of reforms to the European Common Agricultural Policy.
This, says Mr Lochhead, is "not Scotland's vision". Public support for farming, he said, was "wholly justified" in the light of challenges which he said were "unique" in Scotland.
An argument, one imagines, which will find favour in, for example, France where agriculture is traditionally accorded key importance. Perhaps Mr Lochhead should revive the Auld Alliance.
I'm 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~52~RS~)
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And it would be interesting to find out how much of that £7.5 billion actually ends up in Scotland, rather than being skimmed off by the taxman in Westminster.
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"Berry Up, Berry Doon. Berry alang the Hulltoon"
It's "sma-holdings" Brehn, nut "small"!
Also protecting the farming and fishing industry in Scotland has got nothing to do with being a 'nationalist'. It is due to the fact that in these economic hard times protecting the means of production in this important sector means we all benefit in Scotland, whether we are a nationalist of not.
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I would really like to see some detail of what type of subsidy the SNP propose. The current system doesn't work and has for large parts of Scotland played a significant role in destroying Agricultural Communities.
The problem with CAP is that it rewards large efficient farmers who can easily survive without subsidy in greater volumes than the small farmer. This finacially empowers large farmers to buy smaller ones out, who can't survive even with the current subsidy.
Therefore large landowners get richer and more powerful. When the land is of poor value, many crofters for example have just given up production as subsidy can now be had without any work.
So the current system is really a disaster for rural Scotland, so if we are to have a different system then fine but I can't see how this would work within the EU.
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Wrong approach again. The CAP needs reformed. But why is Scotland unique amongst Europe, let alone the UK?
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An updated version of a classic for 2009?
(In strong Doric accent, can't help with tune - it's not on YouTube yet...)
Ma bloo Gray coo,
Ma bloo Gray coo,
I've got a smashin' heard,
O bloo Gray coos,
You can hud awa yer smelly pigs,
An cock-a-doodle-doos,
For I've got a smashin' heard o bloo Gray coos!
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"But why is Scotland unique amongst Europe, let alone the UK?"
Gosh, if it's the same, we could have independence, like those other European countries!
;->
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Subsidies and fishing quota juridiction should never have been handed over to Brussels/Strasbourg in the original European ECONOMIC Union days.
Britian's and Scotland's needs are peculiar to these lands, and far different to those of Mediteranean countries.
We need to step out of the full EU gamut, and start determining Britain's/Scotland's own subsidies and quotas again.
Alas, not a single brave politician on the horizon to take up the mantle!
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Re #5
DASH!! I made an error, in such an important song... :-(
(I'm sorry Robert Lovie.)
Take two!
An updated version of a classic for 2009?
(In strong Doric accent, can't help with tune - it's not on YouTube yet...)
Ma bloo Gray coo,
Ma bloo Gray coo,
I'm affa, affa fond o' my,
Bonnay, bonnay bloos,
You can hud awa yer smelly pigs,
An cock-a-doodle-doos,
For I've got a smashin' heard o' bloo Gray coos!
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Brian writes:
"No surprise there, given that he is a Nationalist. He seeks further powers for the Scottish Parliament in this sector."
Well, if seeking more powers makes you a nationalist then let's have independence, as the last poll suggested that around 80% of Scots want more powers.
As an aside, I suggested on the last thread that the Scottish media would re-align itself after Labour's howler with the Forth bridge funding. My prediction was that we would now see a plethora of headlines based around holyrood statements and the like from Labour.
Well, we didn't have long to wait for the 'rebalancing' of our political news. The Herald has one of those 'as if by magic' stories based on a Labour MSP's grandmother waiting 8 hours for a hospital bed.
Expect more stories of this nature in the coming days as the Scottish press seek to repair the damage Labour has inflicted on itself.
Attacks on LIT/SFT, school/hospital scare stories and cuts will feature prominently.
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#7 newsjock
You have a problem with "Britain's/Scotland's" interests being seen as the same as those of the rest of Europe?
Am I to surmise from "Britain's/Scotland's" that you also have a problem with Scotland's interests being seen as not the same as those of the rest of Britain?
Sorry to assume you have so many problems!
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"Perhaps Mr Lochhead should revive the Auld Alliance."
As a matter of fact, an independent Scotland would probably have little difficulty in reviving the Auld Alliance, which would not suit England at all. A campaign for restoring that alliance could do worse than set up its stall in the Luxembourg Gardens within a stone's throw from the Senate and in the shadow of a statue of a royal personage which bears the following inscription: Marie Stuart, Queen of France.
It is nice to see a UK journalist take even a feigned interest in the agricultural sector. In France the media faithfully follow the pattern of the agricultural and indeed viticultural year as if it were an integral part of the fabric of national life, which, of course, it is. Any industry which puts food on the table is of central interest and importance. Producing something which is of real rather than illusory value is a skill, occupation and indeed preoccupation which Scotland would do well to focus upon, cultivate and esteem, as the French do.
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Considering how Scotland was sold out on the Fishing industry issue from Heath onwards we 'Nationalists' have every right to be sensitive about our interests in these regards. Two words for those who disagree: Ben Bradshaw.
As for the Auld Alliance. Does anyone recall at the height of the BSE fiasco/tragedy the French under Jospin continued the ban on English/British beef imports but offered the (relatively) unaffected Scotch beef industry a pass to French markets. Under protest from the SNP "fellow Scot" and apparent Francophile and Francophone Tony Blair rejected the offer out of hand. Quelle surprise I agree...
Of course an independent Scotland would be welcomed by France into the EU fold. France and Scotland had the first dual nationality act in the world and Aubigny-Sur-Nere still belongs to Scotland. Vive la vielle alliance! Vive la France! Vive l'Ecosse libre!
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#9 - greenock boy. evening , there was a spat all last week in the herald , the letters page and on line with regard to Iain McWhirter's piece about his stay with the NHS and how positive an experience it was and how much a surprise it was to him after the years of negative press it receives.
from what i saw the positives well out numbered the negatives and they therefore had to have another go this week.
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#9 Greenockboy...
Yes I'm afraid you're right.
But what I think is really worrying is that there seems to be an "anti-change" alliance which is absolutely determined to do things the old way. Hence Labour's pressure to use PFI for the new Forth Bridge, the obvious contempt that Brian Taylor has for anything the SNP say or do, the Labour MSP's grandmother story and of course the anti LIT gang that includes the mainly Tory aligned CBI and IoD.
This - at a time when we desparately need to change how we think and operate in this country in order not just to extract ourselves from the economic mire that the Govt and the City have got us into but to plan how we do things in the future - is truly depressing but it tells us very cleary who represents the past and who represents the future!
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Auld Alliance? OMG, mass the clans we're going over the border!
I can just see it, one one side we have the unionist bloggers and on the other the nationalists. Both sides armed to the teeth with laptops and high-speed broadband (wireless of course).
The first few posts go on, usually the nationalists who are quick off the mark. The unionists frantically jump onto Wiki in the hope of dishing some dirt.
Meanwhile, everyone else is on Google trying to find out just exactly what is Titian. The answers are revealing: a moon around Saturn, an Italian footballer or some Greek mythological creature. Eight spelling attempts later and they discover that in fact is something that the Scottish Government want to spend 17 million on (no wonder they need a cash advance for the bridge).
I'll stick to sarcasm for this subject since I know little about the CAP (at least I'm being honest).
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Virtually every nationalist movement in the history of the world has had a special place for agriculture, especially small-scale peasant holdings. At best, it's a farce, retarding the development of the country.
It's easy to imagine an independent Scotland with the nationalists in charge developing an untouchable, unproductive smallholder class utterly dependent on subsidies. Paid for by the taxpayer. Like the ultra-orthodox in Israel.
As for bluelaw and frankly praising France, they must mean a different France from the nuclear-powered, nuclear-armed, empire-hanging-onto, butchers-apron, Britanny-and-Corsica-owning country I'm thinking of.
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The time is long past when food prices in the EU should be left to market forces. Paying subsidy on the production of agricultural produce is financial madness. It is in effect an import tax on food coming into Europe from the rest of the world. However these subsidies are the mainstay of the French and German agricultural industry, and fuel also, a huge machinery industry in these countries, hence no desire in Europe to get rid of the subsidy. Like every other facet of the EU the CAP is geared to giving the maximum benefit to the Franco German alliance. Agriculture in Britain/ Scotland has now also become dependent on subsidy except for the large farming conglomerates who regard subsidies as a nice little earner, when in fact they were intended to help farmers struggling to survive in less favoured areas. Supply and demand must at some point become the norm., or we will be stuck with artificially high food prices .
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Neil_Small147:
Neil has found out the master plan!
The Homecoming is not about tourism, it's the clans uniting back under the Scottish banner, just like their father's father before them.
Nice work agent Small.
;-)
Here is some general knowledge for you, CAP is the most expensive project which the European Union funds. (I think, it's been years since I learnt about it)
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Anaxim:
This blog has only just began and we are already witnessing scaremongering stories.
"It's easy to imagine an independent Scotland with the nationalists in charge developing an untouchable, unproductive smallholder class utterly dependent on subsidies."
If the nationalists were in charge of an independent Scotland, who knows what would happen? Besides Scotland benefits from CAP, are you suggesting we remove this burden since taxpayers subsidise the system?
Agriculture is important for every country. It's important because relying on imports is as dangerous as relying on energy abroad, but no, you rant and rave and create stories for the kiddies about how incapable nationalists are.
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15. Neil_Small147
That's funny Neil! When you suggested a televised forum with the posters on here a while ago, I'd thought along the same lines i.e. everyone round the table frantically typing answers, letting their expressions tell the story while they looked around meaningfully on hitting 'Enter' with real purpose! A good sketch. With our usually busy lives, you have to laugh. :-)
Btw, the sum total of my knowledge on this thread etc. amounted to a smart ****** comment and a corrupted bothy ballad! Other than that I once read something about the CAP always struggling to be fair to all the countries involved at once, so there's a lot of fighting, sorry discussion about it.
#16 Anaxim
"As for .... praising France, they must mean a different France from the nuclear-powered, nuclear-armed, empire-hanging-onto, butchers-apron, Britanny-and-Corsica-owning country I'm thinking of."
It probably is...
"Anaxim - an Abomination made not from lust, but piece by labored piece from mechanical designs inspired by apocalyptic impulses.
- They are constructs that were never purged as they should be, creations of civilizations long forgotten that are self aware, and the designs crafted by gods of the forge that simply went terribly wrong. While just a deific type of animated construct, the Anaxim is intent on exacting revenge for being consigned to the scrap heap by it's creators."
Wow. Is this planet "Imperia" where you've cheerfully spent many an hour? (online gaming?). Cool. Explains your 'dark' view of France / the world. Maybe it was your nephew and you liked the name. I do not wish to be unduly harsh. Can I ask are there any Scottish-based characters and did they evolve from haggis merged with thistles dramatically created through wondrous hydro electric? Do they have metal kilts and cyber shields? Ace! :-)
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It may (or may not) interest fellow posters to know that the Scotsman will tomorrow publish an article based on letters between the first Minister and Sean Connery.
The article contains the following:
"The correspondence, sent at the taxpayers' expense, all went to Sir Sean's tax haven in the Bahamas and has been branded "bizarre and deeply, deeply embarrassing" by Labour.
It also revealed the starry-eyed Mr Salmond played secretary to the Hollywood icon, forwarding him scripts and fan mail sent to the Scottish Government."
As I have said earlier, stand by for more of this guff as the notorious Scottish press seek to redress the balance in light of Labour's own goal over the Forth bridge funding.
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Its quite interesting to see how some are switched on and others who think that we can import our food and leave the richest farmers to produce what they find most profitable.
What was the 67 war in Israel about, water as they needed it to irrigate their produce for export and home consumption. That water is running out as it is in a lot of the developing world who we import food from depriving their citizens of 1 square meal in a day. 1 billion people go hungry and thirsty every day partly because of exporting to the more developed nations.
I agree mostly with #3 northhighlander (won't please #15) that a subsidy is a necessary part to provide and maintain a rural economy. What needs to stop are the "big boys" being able to claim as they are the ones who clear the land of people to increase their private wealth and degrade the local environment using highly intensive farming practices. Sharny Dubs
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Goodness, it get's better and better. Such is the mess that labour have made of this that the Tories (the London ones) have stepped into the row.
They are now criticising Labour's intransigence whilst at the same time using the old 'Gripe and Grievance' cliche to describe the SNP.
They have apparently requested talks with the SNP on the matter. The SNP have declined the offer saying that the priority is to setup a meeting with Yvette Cooper.
The Scotsman of course headline it as 'SNP shun Tory offer' - however, the reality is that Labour are on a hiding to nothing over this.
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21. At 9:33pm on 06 Jan 2009, greenockboy wrote:
Much as I admire Mr Connery as an actor, I wish he would keep out of politics. How can anyone who lives out of the country bang the drum about independence? Do you seriously think he will return to Scotland come independence? I cannot see the tax levels changing too much.
The same applies to celeb supporters of Labour and the other parties.
If celebs etc wish to enter politics, at least follow the footsteps of Clint Eastwood and Arnie and stand for office.
Back to the CAP. I know it costs far too much but I doubt anything will change. France and Germany rely on it too much.
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Neil_Small147 asks:
"How can anyone who lives out of the country bang the drum about independence?"
Easy, I worked in various European countries for several years and advocated independence. Many people have argued that an independent Scotland would offer more opportunity and may have prevented many people from leaving in the first place.
Connery pays more in taxes than many wealthy people who reside in the UK.
If I knew your occupation then I could just as easy say that I admire you as an 'accountant, plumber, brickie, lawyer ...' but I wish you would keep out of politics.
On a related note, no one has yet held Jim Murphy to account after he disgracefully misrepresented the comments of the Norwegian minister in the Commons and described our near neighbours as insolvent.
Incidently, my prediction of a flurry of anti SNP non stories as a result of the mess Labour are in over the bridge funding is proving accurate.
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"But why is Scotland unique amongst Europe, let alone the UK?"
It isn't. He wasn't saying that at all. The current reforms were only narrowly pushed through alot of the Mitteleuropa countries were thoroughly opposed.
Remember it was the Anglo-Saxon model economy - now so discredited, as the US and the UK are the epicenters of the global economic crisis - which drove the reforms.
No doubt that the CAP does need reformed (it has for too long effectively been a French bribe), but the reforms proposed should be revisited in light of extremely tough economic times and more gently phased.
Economic policies which cause the collapse of particular strains of farming in Europe at this time would be suicidal. CAP reform needs reshaped.
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To be quite fair. Does anyone here know of the personal circumstances surrounding Sean Connery?
It has been shown that Connery has paid tax into the treasury on multiple occasions, perhaps not the full amount, but still a large amount of money we are talking about which pay for services that the man will never use!
Also I do not see anyone talking about the tens of thousands of British living in Spain or Portugal, are they not tax deserters for leaving Britain to live in the sunshine? How dare they!
Jeez, certain people will complain about anything. I think they are jelous that they, themselves, are not living away and are stuck where they are now.
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Look out for Iceland taking the UK to the European court over the use of anti terrorism laws to freeze it's banks assets.
Be interesting to see how the Scottish media spin this one - if they report it !!
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Neil_Small147:
"I know it costs far too much but I doubt anything will change. France and Germany rely on it too much.2
How did you reach that conclusion? Does it cost far too much for the overall purpose of CAP? France and Germany are the main countries who benefit, but Scotland benefits aswell from CAP.
Just a few small points to test you, you better be reading up on CAP!
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Thomas_Porter:
"If the nationalists were in charge of an independent Scotland, who knows what would happen?"
Agricultural protectionism is a standard nationalist tactic. It's hardly unrealistic to suggest that it would happen in Scotland.
"Besides Scotland benefits from CAP, are you suggesting we remove this burden since taxpayers subsidise the system?"
I'd like to scrap the CAP, yes, and replace it with something cheaper. The special pleading of Mr. Lochhead just weakens the EU. I have no doubt every country could invent 'unique challenges' if they wanted.
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Brian:
[Urban-Cynicism]....
I agree with your remarks totally; about knowing next to nothing about rural farmers and there struggles.....
You, can always learn something about the rural areas....
~Dennis Junior~
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Anaxim
I meant the Franco-Scottish comments quite lightly although it's telling no comment was forthcoming from Unionists on Jospin's offer to help the Scotch beef industry and Blair's haughty rebuttals. How, I wonder, would Blair have reacted if England had been offered French terms and Scotland hadn't?
I see no reason why Scotland can't have good relations with France and indeed every other country in the world. France may well be all the things Anaxim accuses it of but what of Scotland being part of the UK and therefore just as complicit in much of the same things France is accused of. Why would we want to be so closely associated with a country like the UK when Independence affords Scotland a completely new chance to reconstitute its foreign policy and relationship with the rest of the world?
The only agrarian based feudalism that will dog Scotland post-independence is the legacy of a British ruling class who have carved Scotland up like a patchwork quilt not least for tax breaks and to ensure Scotland remains the perennial playground for rich Anglos.
Sean Connery is a hero. The former Unionist who embraced the SNP after he became disillusioned by the contempt Tory/Lab govts showed a consortium of TU and business leaders he was part of which sought to prevent industrial strife on Clydeside has defended Scotland for 40 years and done much in terms of charity work. He has always accepted the will of the Scottish people, always talked the place up and incidentally he has always paid tax. Considering the battering he has already taken at the hands of the Scottish press I'm sure the latest attacks will seem like light relief.
I have tried to be polite about Brian as it is his blog after all but if as others suggest he despises the SNP I may reconsider. Not that any change of attitude on my part matters particularly.
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#24 Neil_Small147
Re celebs in politics. Looks like you're not getting your wish. That Caledonia one is getting done for release with some celebs involved.
Spooky, I'd said about having a song...
I think KT Tunstall would have the right sound for something 'charty' if they ever wanted that. She sounds a bit 'imaginitive' though when I've heard her talk.
Anyway, this time I am going.
This just isn't doing it no mo' :-/
My top posters:
Out of a good bunch of goodies (you know who you are) - oldnat.
But I confess I prefered the baddies.
All time tops - Anglophone.
Worth a mention - Anaxim.
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#33 aye_write
18 minutes for 1000 words. I'm impressed.
Brian
Too superficial even with your caveats. EU subsidies are still related to production even if past production. Now it is easier to produce grain on the fens of Cambridgeshire than the glens of Aberdeen so there is a divergence of views. The "UK" gov't sees the East Anglian grain barons and thinks "Why do they need subsidy?", it doesn't see North East farmer still struggling to get his harvest in October. Our petendy wee does and thinks he needs help.
The thrust of the CAP reform is towards payment for "countryside", ie no-one in there right mind holidays in the plains of Paris for their scenic attributes but they do like seeing cows in the Alps and deer forest in Scotland and are hoping to switch payment away from the plains and fens to go towards preserving the Alps and glens. This is not termed subsidy in eurospeak even though you and I would account it such. It may be Mr Lochhead misspoke if he used the s-word but in pointing out that there were different priorities in Scotland and England he was just doing his job.
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#34 handclapping
"#33 aye_write
18 minutes for 1000 words. I'm impressed."
Just to tidy up, I know your remark is cutting (that's fine...) but you lost me. I was where I burst my nationalist bubble. I think brigadierjohn alluded to that being necessary.
My reasons for my having posted a lot on here, if that is what you are getting at: Originally, to be discredited, so testing my father's notion that it would be worth practicing my writing - I hadn't asked him, or aspired to do any. Unusually for a north east man, he'd just come out with it. Soon this was beside the point.
Secondly, while supporting nationalism I knew there was something not quite right about doing so. I thought maybe I would be enlightened on here, amongst all the good writers. Young enough to be drawn in by the notion of it all and just old enough to question the integrity, I got my answers.
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#16 Anaxim
Who would have suspected that a few hardly contestable observations about agriculture and its place in French life would elicit such an intemperate francophobic diatribe? There I am being disingenuous, of course, as I cannot realistically be expected to be unaware that anglocentric francophobia is indissociable from British nationalism down the ages. The French have always got in the way of the English and their supporters, who have resented it and still do. That is undeniable.
If pertinent reference to distinctions that are to be drawn between the UK and France in relation to the topic under discussion are not to be tolerated on the ground that they constitute "praise" of France, an admission has been made, I think, that the drawing of these distinctions is unfavourable to the UK. This is not acceptable so far as anglo-unionists are concerned, apparently. As my non-anglocentric perspective has already been subjected to anglo-unionist classification as "dangerous" here, I suppose that one should not be surprised by this.
On the subject of territorial possessions that has been raised, although this is off-topic, there is, of course, ammunition for fruitless cross-Channel sniping ad infinitum. Although I personally am not in favour of overseas possessions in principle, I recognize that complex issues are involved and that each case needs to be examined on its merits. Perhaps we should refer your somewhat ill-considered remarks on empire to the inhabitants of the islands of St Pierre et Miquelon to see if they would prefer to be swallowed up by the anglophone world of North America that surrounds them. I am afraid that I already know the answer to that: it is 'non' for some reason, as it was during the Second World War, to the embarrassment and frustration of the UK and the USA.
Nearer to home, I might, perhaps, just in passing, draw attention to the fact that the islands which one can see off the Norman coast and which are so near to it that they seem to be naturally part of France (which is indeed a frequently expressed French view of the matter, not least in Brittany) are, in point of fact, a UK dependency, where the French language has been all but extirpated and where Woolworths employees have recently discovered that they will not be receiving the redundancy payments that are due to their colleagues in Blighty because the Channel Islands are indeed not part of the UK but are "owned" by it.
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are you off for good aye-write?
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One of the most amazing things on reading the postings here is how little most people actually understand rural Scotland and what is happening to the communities in it. It must also be said it is pretty clear how little most of Scotland actually cares. Some of the comments display an astonishing level of ignorance.
I would have thought given what is happening in parts of Europe with the Russion gas supplies even the most blinkered amongst us would realise that food is an essential part of life. At present a frightening proportion of our food is imported, even simple things like milk can come from as far as Poland.
From an environmental viewpoint this is very damaging and costly, but surprisingly this is ignored by most environmetalists.
Most rural communities are changing because agriculture is no longer able to support families, crofts and small farms have gone from being the centres of families to liabilities. The CAP will eventually finish of the work started at the Highland Clearances, by ensuring the indiginous poulation and culture of the Highlands is lost for ever.
Reform of agricultural subsidy is esential for rural Scotland, ground must be put back ito production. Every nation needs to retain the ability to feed itself.
If the SNP understood this and were willing to fight for this I would vote for them every time. But they understand rural issues no better than Labour. In effect they haven't got a clue.
That is my main gripe against independance. We would simply replace domination by Westminster with Domination by Holyrood. For rural communities, nothing changes. Every so often one bunch of Numpties gets replaced by another, be they in Edinburgh or London, it is simply incompetence as usual.
So perhaps Scots should think about where the food they eat comes from, next time you are at the supermarket look at the labels and see where things come from. Imagine what could happen if the food distribution system became unstable across the world. Then decide if we need Scottish agriculture or not.
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Bluelaw
Sean connery is an actor not a hero. (James Bond wasn't real).
A hero is someone who fights for his country, like our soldiers in Afghanistan, or medical staff who dedicate their life's work to treating patients, or a person who spends their life working for a charity because they believe in its aims.
Sean Connery has done little for anybody apart from himself. It is easy to shout for Scottish Independance from Marbella, if he wants to be taken seriously then he should come and live and pay tax in Scotland.
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#39 northhighlander
As I understand it, Sean Connery, like other uncommonly wealthy people, has homes in several countries. This is in the nature of uncommonly wealthy people.
It is not unknown for uncommonly wealthy Scots to have homes abroad and to accommodate the wishes of their spouses on the subject of which country they spend most time in. As Lady Connery is not of UK origin, it is not surprising that the Connerys are often overseas.
I fail to see why Sir Sean Connery's wealth and celebrity life style should disqualify him from doing what he can to advance a cause which he believes in. It is, after all, not a crime to be wealthy or to be a celebrity. What is a crime so far as some people are concerned, however, is to support Scottish independence. The higher the profile of the criminal in such a case, the more heinous the crime.
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#30 - what stupendous ignorance to conflate the policies of a few 'peasant parties' in Eastern Europe with that of Left of Centre Parties. It is wholly unrealistic to make such assumptions over the future of an independent Scotland.
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#38. northhighlander
Why spoil a lot of good common sense points by putting this anti SNP junk.
"If the SNP understood this and were willing to fight for this I would vote for them every time. But they understand rural issues no better than Labour. In effect they haven't got a clue."
If the SNP created a land of milk and honey they would wrong in your eyes, get real.
Bacon butties anyone
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#39 northhighlander
Careful what you say! Come the revolution you will be joining me in the cells for "questionning".
Funny thing is, look at a picture of Lenin and think who he resembles :)
(I'll hand myself in to the nearest SNP office immediately)
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As I have said, damage limitation time for Labour as the Scottish press does it?s part by producing anti SNP articles and headlining statements from Labour MSP?s and MP?s.
Here are a few from today
The Herald:
'Nationalists accused over lack of funding plan for bridge'
'Cold snap chaos hits hospitals' (An embelishment of Labour MSP McMahon granny story)
'Alex Salmond's gifts to Sean Connery revealed' (Lifted from The Scotsman)
'Murphy?s unity call' (Another headline from a usesless Jim Murphy statement)
'LibDem leader joins prison name row' (Prison story used to attack the SNP)
The Scotsman has more of the same, I don?t have the inclination to list them.
The Scottish press are utterly predictable, so brazen is this tripe that one can only wonder what they think they are achieving.
Surely they must realise that the law of diminishing returns has kicked in and that the electorate need more than simply headlines based around the latest rant from Andy Kerr or empty rhetoric from Murphy.
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#32 bluelaw:
"The only agrarian based feudalism that will dog Scotland post-independence is the legacy of a British ruling class who have carved Scotland up like a patchwork quilt not least for tax breaks and to ensure Scotland remains the perennial playground for rich Anglos."
The SNP's gameplan has long included attracting rich people with tax breaks and other incentives. Witness the calling in of Trumpton, or the efforts to attract Russian oligarchs. No doubt in your world, these are examples of 'much-needed inward investment'.
At the moment, the SNP are planning to lease (effectively privatise) a hefty chunk of Scotland's forests to plug holes in their gimmick-strewn budget. With the help of the Conservatives, of course.
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We often see independence supporters being portrayed as intollerant and dictatorial. Sometimes the pejorative terms are quite explicit, other times the suggestions are more subtle, but the aim is the same - to demonise.
The comment usually follows one or other from a Unionist that attacks independence or similar, where the poster 'jokingly warns his fellow non nationalist.
So it is with Neil_Small147 when he says:
"Careful what you say! Come the revolution you will be joining me in the cells for "questionning"."
The suggestion is clear, independence supporters will 'gather up' those who do not agree with independence. This is a tactic employed on other forums and one that is intended to irritate, whilst at the same time subliminally suggest to the undecided reader that the independence movement and it's supporters are somehow 'insidious'.
The irony of course is that the very state that this Union represents is slowly but surely eroding those liberties the Unionists apparently hold so dear. It was also compliant when the USA were gathering up individuals and 'rendering' them via Scottish airports.
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Post 45 is bile strewn garbage.
Trump was originally courted by Labour, Labour and the Tory's were recently courting Russian billionaires.
Your definition of the SNP's gameplan is complete fabrication.
Leasing something is not privatising, it is leasing.
"Gimmick strewn budget" is a meaningless phrase unless you explain which policies are gimmicks, why they are gimmicks, what proportion of their budget are gimmicks.
Is it only the SNP who have (in your eyes) gimmicks?
I'm afraid your posts are regularly no more than bile induced rants. You rarely, if ever, qualify anything you say, preferring to adopt the 'name calling' methodology
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Anaxim:
"No doubt in your world, these are examples of 'much-needed inward investment'."
Another ignorant comment.
Well the Americans were good for one thing. GWB and their administration proved that tax breaks for the rich were good, because it's the 10% richest members of the American society who invest back into the economy (far outweighing the small time businessman) and which creates or supports thousands of jobs.
Of course, that was America, the same rules may not apply in the United Kingdom, but then it does make sense to encourage the super wealthy into Scotland because they are capable of providing one million there and another here which can only benefit the Scottish economy.
But no, the rich are bad, there all tax deserters...
"I'd like to scrap the CAP, yes, and replace it with something cheaper."
Please tell me your plans. How can we scrap CAP, and replace CAP with something that can continue to provide support to our Scottish economy?
So far, you plan to get rid of it. But then Scotland would loose out. You sound like Labour, kicking Scotland where it hurts.
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Northhighlander:
#39.
"Sean Connery has done little for anybody apart from himself. It is easy to shout for Scottish Independance from Marbella, if he wants to be taken seriously then he should come and live and pay tax in Scotland."
Yes, how dare he! How dare Connery pay millions of pounds into the British Treasury...
Have you heard of Google? Perhaps you should use it.
I guess in your independent Scotland, we would close the borders so nobody can leave!
There's more to the world apart from your computer screen. I suggest you travel for a year around the world and then you may see or possibly fall in love with another country.
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#37 bluelaw
No, that would probably require levels of 'hudding my tongue' I don't posses! I'll still read these pages (of course I don't know everything) and if something really new or intriguing pops up, I might post.
I think one best way of helping the independence movement is to expose it and see it in the same low regard as most Unionists do. Their views must be given credit. Then I might try to convince them.
I'm going to write a paragraph (OK, a few) beginning 'The problem with nationalism is'. The big sticking point as I see it is that it contains a notion and it can be legitimately pulped the same way other notions can. (Notions aren't deserving of reality status, are mere manifestations of people's flaws...) I won't post it for fear of boring the train fan from the last thread.
Also it's weak to feel like you can't help but do something. Safer to be in complete control of whether you do or not.
I have to say when first reading Blether with Brian I was cheered that there were so many good nationalists. So keep going you all :-)
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I wonder how Iain Gray took the news that "Labour's newest councillor", Colin Deans, has decided he doesn't want to be part of the Labour party after all. Is it true he doesn't care since Deans has served all the purpose he was going to?
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33 Aye-Write
Thanks...that's really sweet of you. I stay away for ages and find an unsolicited testimonial on my return. In the end, everyone loves a good baddie.
I'd love to do a little bit of satire about the CAP...it was very helpful to Ireland I seem to remember but I shan't be tempted. Rather like the famous dog cartoon in Private Eye I have "given up blogging and gone back to barking aimlessly in the dark".
Happy New Year to you all and as ever...be careful what you wish for.
PS: As he's been getting a bit of stick... like the Evil Queen in Snow White, Sean Connery is no longer the fairest in land and has been been roundly and rudely usurped by Daniel Craig as the best Bond. In fact, much as I like him, I wish Sean would stick to politics as the Honourable Member for Marbella South. He's a bit of a one trick pony as an actor (or voiceover artiste since he went endomorphic)...why didn't his agent get hime a part in Mama Mia for God's sake? I'm sure he can sing better than Pierce Brosnan. Think of the hit numbers?
Danshing Queen
Esshh- oh- Essh!
Shoopertrooper
Shlipping froo ma Fingersh!
Over to you!
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#47 are you the same greenockboy who bored these blogs with your accusations and pleas to the moderators over the blogging behaviour of reluctant-expat. Pot Kettle Black come to mind!!
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#46 greenockboy
You obviously do not understand humour.
If you have read my more recent posts, you will see that I sit in the middle wih regards to independence, but with a leaning towards nationalism.
What concerns me is that some of the independence supporters on here (not all of whom are SNP voters), have the same attitude as do those in favour of the union.
You, as do some of the more fundamentalist union supporters, have to accept that neither option - or even the middle ground - is going to be perfect.
Look at some of the posts on this subject: on side you have the national media out to kill of the SNP, and on the other the SNP faling to provide basic healthcare. Neither is true.
I am not out to demonise supporters of either cause. But I do not tolerate those who cannot or will not accept questions about their political aspirations. If the SNP want an independent Scotland, they must provide proper answers. Likewise, those who criticise the SNP must provide factual evidence.
If you wish to remain hardcore that is fine, but you will potentially alienate the undecided amongst the electorate.
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Post 53:
Reluctant-Expat was posting insult and abuse, he swamped threads with this sort of comment.
Neil_Small147 says:
"You obviously do not understand humour."
Of course I do, however I also recognise subtle demonisation disguised as humour.
Neil_Small147 says:
"Look at some of the posts on this subject: on side you have the national media out to kill of the SNP"
No, you have comments that highlight the sort of political coverage indicative of a biased media. I myself predicted exactly the kind of articles that would appear from today onwards.
Neil_Small147 says:
"I am not out to demonise supporters of either cause."
But you just did, here are the comments you have tried to excuse as 'jokes'.
"Careful what you say! Come the revolution you will be joining me in the cells for "questionning".
Funny thing is, look at a picture of Lenin and think who he resembles."
For these comments to be funny, one has to subscribe to the 'nationalists are intollerant' school of thought, if only momentarily.
In the same way as one has to subscribe to the 'Irishmen are thick' train of thought in order to find the anti-Irish jokes funny, or the 'black people' are sub-human' train of thought in order to find racist jokes funny or the 'Jews/Scots are mean' train of thought in order to find those kind of jokes funny.
The joke eventually creates a stereotype of it's target that permeates into mainstream conciousness, So we end up with Scot's/Jews are mean, Irish are stupid, Blacks are inferior, Arabs are untrustworthy, Italians are corrupt and Independence supporters are fascists.
Relax though, it's only a joke!!
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#52. Anglophone
Anglophone, your response is like a dagger through my cold dead heart! It?s true (unfortunately, this being the planet on which I?ve landed), I am sweet, and transparent. Your sort are never my neighbours!
If I were the dark, charmed I?d listen. Happy howling ;-)
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#32 of course Sean Connery is a hero....
....it must have been another S.Connery esq who pocketed half a million quid to advertise Japanese whisky in the 1990s.
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#53 I think you will find there are lots of pots and lot of kettles, and even some pans, most of whom make the same old pointless noise.....starting with yourself.
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56 Aye-Write
"Tis the tale told by an idiot - full of sound and fury, signifying nothing";-)
Thanks for the kind words (I think?)
Yaarp!
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#35. aye_write
#33. At 01:57am on 07 Jan 2009, aye_write wrote: ...
87. freakowski wrote:
Re #75 Aye_whatever ...
I expect a thousand word essay in response ...
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88. At 02:15am on 07 Jan 2009, aye_write wrote:
#87 freakowski
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#48 Thomas Porter:
"Please tell me your plans. How can we scrap CAP, and replace CAP with something that can continue to provide support to our Scottish economy?
So far, you plan to get rid of it. But then Scotland would loose out. You sound like Labour, kicking Scotland where it hurts."
You're treating the EU like a sugar-daddy. It will fall apart if you have a ton of people talking up their country's 'unique challenges' and demanding money from the central pot. Scotland's economy should be self-supporting.
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#35. aye_write
#33. At 01:57am on 07 Jan 2009, aye_write wrote: ... on this thread and on the previous one
#88. At 02:15am on 07 Jan 2009, aye_write
This comment is awaiting moderation.
and as I suspected it was a response to
87. freakowski
Re #75 Aye_whatever ...
...
I expect a thousand word essay in response ...
that was 18 minutes for the 1000 words.
It used to take me about 3 nights to do 1000 words for the OU.
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#60
Sorry. That is part of the drafting of 62. I must have picked up some hidden control in the cutting and pasting.
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Re 40
Sean Connery can live where he likes. I am a firm believer in Freedom. He has chosen not to make his main residence in Scotland. Fair enough.
So leave those who do live in Scotland to decide on our future. If he wants to be part of that future come and live here. Otherwise leave us alone.
My main point is how absolutely ridiculous it is to refer to him as a Hero. He plainly is not.
Re 42
I do not single out the SNP for criticism, Labour are no better. Funny how you pick and distort the one sentence mentioning the SNP....
We lack politicians in this country who understand rural issues. There are no visionaries at this time.
If you check previous posts you will see that I am happy to give credit to the SNP where it is due. There have been some sucesses and I hope there are more. More concentration on the issues and less on spin and perhaps there could be a lot more.
Again I reiterate why would I want to swap government from Westminster for government from Holyrood. Neither offer very much that would make my part of this island better to live in.
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#59 Anglophone
They were sincere, if thorough!
Of course it all matters not. :-)
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#53 greenockboy
I am not demonising. I am not insulting and I certainly never, ever bring race or religion into my humour.
You are either overly-sensitive or enjoy political correctness.
You talk on your posts about people using the slightest opportunity to demean the SNP. Well you do this with many of your responses to other posters and demean them.
God help us if our politicians in the SNP - and there are some good ones - ever turn out with the same attitudes as you.
Perhaps some attention to the likes of oldnat or aye_right. Both very supportive of their own views but prepared to listen and if necessary accept someone else's views.
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#61 Scotland's economy is more than self-supporting - look at all the nice shiny things the UK govt has spent the money on ... someone else's nuclear weapons, someone else's war, soon to be ID cards for all someone else's Olympics and our own Commonwealth games too ...
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#62 handclapping
"#88. At 02:15am on 07 Jan 2009, aye_write
This comment is awaiting moderation."
Ah, you hadn't yet read it. I got confused - I'd only written 57 words. That's 6 hours for my essay.
(I must have taken some of The Brig's imodium, if not the stronger stuff.)
Ah, ridicule. Ah, well.
I'm not inadvertently cheesing anybody else off - you and I fear oldnat, is enough. :-)
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Connery is still the best Bond.
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#64 northhighlander
As I understand it, Sean Connery is a citizen of the United Kingdom. I am not aware that he is a citizen of any other state. His place of residence does not deprive him of either his citizenship or certain rights associated with that citizenship.
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#66 Neil_Small147
"Perhaps some attention to the likes of oldnat or aye_right. Both very supportive of their own views but prepared to listen and if necessary accept someone else's views."
Thank you, Neil - you are a fair fellow. :->
(Wow, oldnat or aye_write - do you accept PayPal?)
You won't believe it now, but I much rated your #54 (though I wouldn't mean an SNP supporter any ill!) but declined to say because I've stopped posting! (Workmen in - bored!)
But spare a thought for oldnat - he's been tainted. ;-)
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Neil_Small147 says:
"I am not demonising. I am not insulting and I certainly never, ever bring race or religion into my humour."
I do not accuse you of bringing race or religion into your humour, and you know that, you have decided to use the political affiliation of Scots.
I am pointing out that 'jokes' aimed at one group or another are almost always a subtle way of creating or reinforcing a stereotype, THAT is what I am accusing you of doing.
You believe it is acceptable to portray Scottish independence supporters as intollerant facists and pass it off as a 'joke'.
You have now resorted to posting a series of slights and insults at me, however they have no effect.
The fact remains that Unionists have consistently tried to conflate intolerance, nazism, xenophobia, facism, Stalin, Hitler etc with the SNP/Independence and Alex Salmond.
You state that anyone objecting to comments/jokes of this sort are oversensitive or are politically correct. You are entitled to your view, I disagree with it.
I would imagine that every SNP politician and independence supporter would take the same view as me to both of your 'jokes'.
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Anaxim:
#61.
As I suspected.
"You're treating the EU like a sugar-daddy. It will fall apart if you have a ton of people talking up their country's 'unique challenges' and demanding money from the central pot. Scotland's economy should be self-supporting."
You have no alternatives offer, or even made the effort to mention why CAP should be reformed.
I have not said that country's should be talking up their country's unique challenges to receive money from the central pot.
Please do not attempt to change what I wrote supporting CAP to suggest that I would also support country's asking for money for ANY matter...
CAP is a special case and their to support the farmers, sometimes the poorest earner, and also there to ensure we receive the best qaulity of resources while maintaining other issues surrounding farming.
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#72 greenockboy
"I would imagine that every SNP politician and independence supporter would take the same view as me to both of your 'jokes'."
greenockboy, I want to sympathise with your position, but I can't.
It's good we independence supporters want to look like we have the high ground - we do have it.
But, control, while not necessarily lying with the joker, tends not I think to lie with those taking issue with the joke. Even if they are correct, can prove their charge, or both.
It unfairly bestows lack of perspective on them. Then gives the jokes more credence than their jokey status denies. Some prefer to take the risk, however.
The contrast with your intelligent monitoring of the anti-SNP media position is obvious. Respect for you is already assumed. Don't allow others the tune-calling hat - you wear it! :-)
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"I have not said that country's should be talking up their country's unique challenges to receive money from the central pot."
I never said you thought that. But the principles of special pleading you are upholding will inevitably result in it happening. What would you say to an Italian who wanted EU money to support their small scale artisans? Our crofters are special, your artisans aren't?
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What Crofters? There's none left. Westminster saw to it centuries ago. The Union dividend in all its munificent glory...
G-boy. I agree with a-w. Your monitoring is illuminating. Let others soak up the Unionist bile if you're adversely affected. Isn't there an old saying about not messing with dirty people because you'll end up like them...
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Anaxim:
There you go.
I never mentioned that I would support the same theory in practise on other issues.
But there you have it, you are suggesting (even though so far it appears to not happened, even though CAP's been around for many years already) that it'll lead to some type of mass movement of country's asking for favours.
You are spinning what is about CAP into a larger situation where you have a bunch of What If this happened or that.
Can we please stick to what is happening now and let's not blind ourselves with all these possibilities...
What if the sky falls tomorro...?
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"But why is Scotland unique amongst Europe, let alone the UK?"
Gosh, if it's the same, we could have independence, like those other European countries...LOL :)
PS enjoy the blog...
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No comfort here for British Nationalists, but Scotland can probably be self-sufficient in most foods. The remarkable thing about the table linked above is that the past dozen years have seen the UK go from over 70% self sufficiency to less than 60% - a decline of around 17% (on the 1995 base), and, no doubt, this will be proclaimed as an achievement of the wondrous Global Market, which will also be used as an excuse when it finally becomes perceived as a problem instead....but on no account must we allow protectionism to interfere with the "rationalisation" of our agriculture...
Discomfort food?;-) ed
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