Oh, such wickedness!
Distinguished visitors in the gallery today for questions to the first minister, parliamentary conveners all.
John O'Donoghue, Ceann Comhairle in Dail Eireann; Stephen Rodan, the speaker of the House of Keys in the Isle of Man; Inge Lonning, President of the Norwegian Lagting; Steve Peters, Speaker of the Legislative Assembly of Ontario; and Michael Polley, Speaker of the House of Assembly of the Parliament of Tasmania.
They listened as Annabel Goldie suggested the first minister had a face like a haggis.
That is not, incidentally, to traduce Miss Goldie's contribution. It featured sustained, witty invective on the subject of the currency, skipping blithely from defending Scots pound notes to condemning the Euro.
And the haggis? Bella reckons that a Scots Euro note, if such a thing were to emerge, would feature either Mr Salmond's own visage - or the great chieftain o' the puddin' race.
Perhaps, she opined, folk wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
Oh, such wickedness! And was Alex Salmond crushed? What do you think?
Debate by insult
Plainly relishing the attack, he fought back personfully - reflecting on his own forthcoming appearance in The Broons before stating that he was far too discreet to suggest which cartoon character Miss Goldie resembled.
There must be room, on occasion, for a touch of flyting, the ancient Scots art of debate by insult. This was Grade A flyting - from both participants.
Actually, it was a rather good session of FMQs all round. Labour's Iain Gray pursued Mr Salmond on the topic of knife crime, in particular the issue of whether carrying a knife should attract a mandatory prison sentence.
Mr Salmond responded deftly, stressing the complexities involved in such an apparently simple request.
Tavish Scott, too, was on a strong topic, one he has made his own: the takeover of HBOS by Lloyds.
Today he suggested parliamentary inquiries into the implications and gained a degree of qualified support from Mr Salmond who noted, in passing, that Lloyds had also announced actions which might be said to assist Scotland.
Fine mimic
I suspect the watching Speakers, here for last night's Parliamentary Burns Supper, would have been impressed by the standard of disputation in the Land o' Cakes.
PS: Incidentally, all the best from me to Steve Rodan of the House of Keys. I remember him, roughly a thousand years ago, when he was a prominent Liberal in Scotland.
Indeed, he stood in Moray and Nairn, as I recall.
Again if I remember aright, he was a rather fine mimic. Isn't it intriguing how things come around?
I'm 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~02~RS~)
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Who (or what) SHOULD appear on Scottish notes, whether Euro or pound?
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Its just a shame that we couldn't watch FMQ on the BBC today, owing to a game of tennis being shown instead. I thought the BBC might at least have put FMQ onto BBC Parliament instead, but no, that had a game of ping-pong being played at Westminster.
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Yep ! FMQ's certainly seemed like good entertainment - at least the way Brian tells it.
It's a pity that too often we concentrate to excess on haggis, whisky and tartan to "sell" this bonny nation of ours.
Surely the Holyrood spinners or some such quango could come up with something new and original.
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#1 Theres probably only 2 answers to that, Adam Smith and Robert the Bruce. If it has to be buildings then Edinburgh Castle and the Wallace Monument?
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#1. Forfarian
Some suggestions depending on your political viewpoint:
SNP - Sean Connery, Alex Salmond, Shrek, Paw Broon, Rev I M Jolly, Barack Obama
Labour - Tony Blair, Margaret Thatcher, Peter Mandelson, George Foulkes, any merchant banker
Lib Dems - The Krankies
Conservatives - Rab C Nesbitt & Mary Doll
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A fiver to the first person who can give me the dictionary definition of "personfully".
(Source required)
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# 3
Tartan, shortbread, whisky and Robbie Burns are what sells us. Without them we would be a poorer nation, both financially and culturally.
Do you really want us to ignore our best products?
That's a bit like asking Paris to forget about the Eiffel Tower or Rome to get rid of all these old bits of buildings lying around and tidy the place.
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#3, newsjock (or should that be Samson, see below)
An "excess [of] haggis, whisky and tartan"?
You Philistine! (i.e. like Samson)
There aren't enough wild haggis, underground whisky streams or tartan-fleeced sheep for my liking. And where have all the bagpipers of my childhood gone?
Policy of the day - a penny off the rates for every business that puts tartan in its windows.
As for something 'new and original', could any concept be more nauseating than "Silicon Glen"?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#5, Neil_Small147
Rab C Nesbitt on our banknotes?
Not sure whether the notion should have us racing towards independence, or fleeing in the opposite direction.
Personally, having considered the matter, I tend to favour natural history.
What could be a more fitting image for a £100 note than a red deer stag, proud and resplendent as per the 'Monarch of the Glen'?
Other images should include a salmon (just to see how many SNP supporters add the letter D to the 'title' of the image).
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#10, The_Forfarian
Would that be £60 worth of Red Deer and £40 worth of Sika Deer?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7842458.stm
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#10 - "Other images should include a salmon (just to see how many SNP supporters add the letter D to the 'title' of the image)."
It would take some fly to hook that fish!
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The real question is will it be Broons face on the first million pound UK banknote since he is totally responsible for the dire state of the UK economy.
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Dont know why we should change the picture on our currency surely lots of people are happy with the Giro, seriously we should go for the Euro or at least should have done a few years ago, They probably wouldnt have us anymore
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My personal preference is for a maintenance of the more 'republican' (i.e. less fixated on the queen) notes in Scotland vs. English Bank notes generally.
Eventually: intellectual, economic and literary worthies; landscapes - edinburgh, stirling, brodick castle etc ...
(On the Euro notes of an independent Scotland).
A stylized lion-rampant could be the identifying hallmark.
In the meantime I wish the current Westmonster Govt would just ensure that the pound is worth something in another 6 months. In the last 6 months (5 of which I have spent in the US) the pound has slipped from 1.90 US dollars into the 1.30s now.
All this while the dollar has been struggling back and forth with the Euro, and losing significant ground against the Yen and others!
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/currency/11/12/twelve_month.stm
So please can we have a sensible economic policy first from ultra-Unionist ideologue-and-incompetence Broon, to save something of the British and Scottish economies ... and then we can discuss the pretty pictures afterwards!
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Iain Gray should be commended for raising the ''crime'' issue earlier today, amazingly whilst on the topic he failed to mention Peter Hain once.
Wansanshoo.
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The condition of many Five pound notes these days is more like Rab C Nesbitt's wardrobe than anything else.
The Tories need to ask why so many different notes in Scotland. For many traders south of the border (who see Scots notes rarely) that is a problem. If they they only had one Scottish Tenner to get familiar with good , but three !
As for keeping the pound well that is a load of sentimental "balderdash and piffle". None of the Euro countries have lost any of their national identities. As for the interest rate argument - there are the same variations (rich towns, poor towns) in the sterling area as the Euro area.
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#8 forfar
Silicon Fen?
#15 pmk
Surely the emphasis should be on Scots inventions that the world has taken up. So
the Declaration of Arbroath,
the telephone,
economics,
rather than
Robert the Bruce,
haggis,
bagpipes.
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Re
Wouldn't just be labour who would want mrs T on the notes, have you forgotten ecks deep devotion to the lady?
Our landscape does sell the nation, but nations are also about people. We have had some great ones in History, like Alexander Fleming who advanced the cause of medicine in a way that positively affected everyone on the planet.
Real achievement, more than most politicians.
We need to get back to teh days when we had a steady stream of innovation in Scotland.
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#6. bighullabaloo
Personfully - [Etymology:- a politically correct bastardisation of "manfully" q.v.]
1 Resolutely
Sorce:- me, known when young as "the walking dictionary"
I'll take any note featuring Alex Bell and Donaldson's Hospital.
I hope Brian was being whimsical in his use of this word. It annoys me that people assume men to be males; men is all humanity, the differentiation is between wap and wo or those with weapons and those with wombs.
PS person is a mask used by an actor to indicate a different character
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For those who haven't noticed, First Minister's Questions is on tonight (Thursday) on BBC TWO Scotland at 11.30pm
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#19 northhighlander
I thought about Fleming but it was really the 2nd World War that developed penicillin The analogy would be The Danes claiming tidal power on account of King Cnut
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Having previously been against it, I'd rather we'd just go for the Euro and be done with it. It might help the economy.
As for pictures on notes, anything but a politician.
Still plenty of innovation in Scotland. Problem is holding onto the idea, developing it in Scotland and making the thing.
As for Mr Straw and Mr Hain. Immediate resignations please. Not because they are Labour, but they have "overlooked". If they cannot look after their own immediate affairs, what the hell are they doing in positions of responsibility that affects the whole of the UK?
And my view applies to all politicians, regardless of party or policies. If there is one group of individuals who should be beyond reproach it is them.
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Why not have emblems of our natural heritage without which non of us would here and many of these species are heading for extinction never to be replaced. People come and go as do peoples perception of who is great depending on ones mood.
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#20 handclapping
Obviously the "source" required has to be a reputable dictionary of the English language before I'd be willing to pay out the fiver.
To save you the bother you won't find "personfully" in any reputable dictionary of the English langauge because the word doesn't exist (I've checked).
I'm guessing that if the word did exist, your synonym for it (i.e. "manfully") would be very near the mark.
I am, however, absolutely certain that your explanation for it's appearance in the article (it's a politically correct bastardisation) is absolutely 100% obviously true.
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All this talk of who should appear on banknotes - and it seems most likely to continue to be people-dominated if only so that those making the decision can laud their personal heroes - suggests that one of the Homecoming enterprises should be the compilation of a '100 Greatest Scots' (or maybe just 50.
Cynical maybe, but what would be the betting that the Top 25 would contain two teams of an Old Firm select...?
In terms of the far-reaching and enduring impact of his work, my Top Scot would be John Loudon McAdam (Ayrshire's other great son), the impact of whose roadbuilding innovation continues to change the world.
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For their impact on Scottish society:
Arthur Bell
Charles Mackay and James Whyte
John Dewar
Giacomo Justerini and Alfred Brooks
William Teacher
and, of course, John 'Johnnie' Walker
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Actually, I felt the 'haggis' line did undermine the rest of what Aunty Annabel was saying. I'm not generally likely to be a Tory voter and I don't suppose she'll be worrying about my opinion, but I thought that was uncalled-for and had no place in a debating chamber.
Given the piece elsewhere on this site about the European Parliament, and how shocked the other nations are by UK MEPs behaviour (the latest article says UKIP but I'm sure the diary/blog comment referred to UK MEPs generally), was a slanging match really the best reflection of Scotland and Holyrood to be given to our visitors from round the Isles and farther afield?
By all means, have the cut and thrust of political debate, but keep it about policy, let's not descend to the level of Newman & Baddiel's 'History Today'... "does the First Minister realise that his mum goes blebleblebleblebleh"
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Ian Bell in coruscating mode in the Herald.
"Ms Goldie appeared neither to know nor care. She was after a joke - sometimes known as a policy in Tory circles - and nothing was going to get in her way."
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#29 oldnat, that was truly independent journalism!
I don't agree with Ian Bell in this instance, but I am glad he is still willing to stick his neck out and write things like that.
If only there were more like him in the Labour-dominated cliques which make up 90% of the Scottish press.
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The most ridiculous criticism thus far from labour, that has managed to make it into an article, must go to Margaret Curran.
In a story in today's herald, she complains that the SNP are not taking the homecoming seriously (honest) and that despite many events already sold out, or on their way to being sold out she also attacks the SNP for failing to monitor the numbers who are visiting due to the homecoming.
It has been pointed out to her that monitoring of this nature cannot begin until the people actually arrive and can be questioned and that monitoring will indeed take place when visitors start to arrive.
Makes you wonder about Labour in Scotland.
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I see Kenny MacAskill is in his usual form. Not content with not jailing violent offenders (I know of two local cases) he decides to pop over to Canada.
No doubt some here will say the press are once more out to get him. But consider this - if Labour were in power and a senior minister decided to get a long distance haggis supper, the SNP too would be up in arms.
Some may also say that because of the Homecoming, it is important to be out there. But Burns Night comes round every year - those who are murdered due to knives don't have this luxury.
#27 Forfarian
You missed out the tonic wine. Absolutely essential to Scottish culture these days.
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Good New Year all - just back from the jungles and deserts.
#2 tarbatness
Us expats can't get the regular BBC feed of FMQs anyway because of iPlayer restrictions, but it's streamed live on Holyrood TV. The best link to bookmark is Scottish Parliament FMQs, which has an archive of FMQs with the 8 most recent sessions should you miss one. I'm watching yesterday's as I write this.
#29 oldnat
Thanks for the link to Ian Bell's illuminating sketch which demonstrates that (along with Brian) there are still just a few North British journalists capable of both thought and humour.
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I thought I would share this little gem with you all,
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5568569.ece
I love it ! Coupled with newspaper reports of singular praise for other labour politicians,allegedly written by ordinary punters and then disclosed as close friend /husbands, this lady has gone for GOLD!
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#27 The_Forfarian
Good list, but Major James Grant would be equally worthy of a mention in despatches.
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Goldie was extremely rude to the First Minister and for the entire BBC, even Brian, to enjoin in this and take pleasure at her jibes just shows up what a pathetic Unionist mob they are. And then they wonder why people are so disengaged from politics and why the BBC has such a hard time justifying its extortion fee.
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#36 bluelaw
Having now finished watching yesterday's FMQs, I agree that Aunty A went a bit OTT, although as always the FM gave as good as he got.
OTOH, I think you're also going rather OTT yourself, at least in decrying Brian over this, as the text above was clearly written with tongue firmly in cheek.
What's interesting is that both NuLab and the Tories persist in treating FMQs as PMQs lite whereas the LibDems are now taking it (and being taken) more seriously as Scott has the wits to avoid the slapstick the unionist parties seem to love.
Off out now, but back tonight I hope.
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#36 bluelaw
Lighten up a bit. Alex is big enough and capable enough (I was going to say ugly enough but that might just be adding further injury to insult) to look after himself and isn't averse to the use of the odd, deft cutting and sarcastic put-down of his opponats either.
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#28 -nodrog75:
Good post! Thanks for the reference to MWE! Good memories!
In any case, Eck should have responded with "That's you, that is"!
:-0
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32 Neil_Small147
"I see Kenny MacAskill is in his usual form. Not content with not jailing violent offenders (I know of two local cases) he decides to pop over to Canada."
As I and others see this as Unionist media spin do you think that ministers sit at every meeting dictating the agenda and content this is left for committees and Kenny only signs off the final draft.
In the financial mess that the whole UK is in is it not better that a minister promotes the Homecoming where Tourism is going to play a more important role in these times rather than sitting twiddling his thumbs while the nitty gritty is worked out.
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#36 bluelaw
I agree with others, Alex is quite capable of handling himself, and Annabel is at ;east funny, unlike some of the others there.
#37 browndov
They all try and treat FMQs like PMQs, even Alex himself does. I wish they would just drop the whole thing and perhaps (if they do not already) show work done in committees.
The coverage of the Westminster Committees is usually very good, as it gets away from the partisan politics normally associated with PMQs.
And how could the heathens forget Irn Bru!! Only in Scotland can you have the world's most unhealthy breakfast (which I admit is rather nice) following an evening's activites which are also rather unhealthy :)
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How about we put our Queen on our Scottish bank notes?
*room suddenyl goes silent...for once*
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Brian Monteith: British pound keeps us united . . in poverty
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#42 Thomas_Porter
What? Nicola on our euro notes?
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#42 Thomas
I hadn't appreciated that Freddie Mercury et al were Scottish...
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#40 cynicalhighlander
As yes, the Unionist media again.
Well, I know how Government works. And I'm well aware about committees and junior ministers etc.
If you want someone to promote the Homecoming, then use someone who will be recognised at least. Send Alex (I'm being serious). He has the charisma to grab the attention of an audience.
I'm fairly confident to state that Kenny is not exactly a world figure. Alex is. And there are many others who are not politicians who would be better to represent Scotland around the world.
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I don't agree. I think it's the thin end of the wedge and considering what has gone on am no longer prepared to overlook it. I'm afraid I look at these things from a 'zero tolerance' perspective.
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I've always found the Pound Note Nationalism a fascinating aspect of UK debate. I think it must be because I have real difficulty having an attachment to these little coins, and notes, with the face of the monarch stamped upon them.
The Tories famously tried to save the pound from that crafty lot in Brussels and people shrugged their shoulders. UKIP use the Pound sign as part of their acronym. Neither of the campaigns particularly caught the imagination of anyone other than those who miss those 'pink bits' on the map. George Foulkes waved a Scottish Note during FMQ's to waves of laughter and pointing, as he tried to accuse Salmond of being the de'il behind moves to scrap the Scottish notes by aspiring to join the Euro. So who is it who wants to save the Pound and why?
Nairn wrote that the UK has never really cohered logically, but relied on other types of glue to bind the polity: a superiority complex forged from memories of Empire, and a concomitant, strong elite culture. There is a strange self-referential authority that many from Westminster claim in their debates about the future of the UK polity, falling into the trap that the state is somehow neutral, failing to understand the point of view that this may be the very worst way to organise things. Part of this is due to a self-interest, but it's also to do with the same idea held by those that wave around the Pound, that this is not merely a currency but an important symbol of something of Britishness. And the fear of its loss has as much to do with the end of claims to this self-referential authority, as it has to do with the symbolism, thereby revealing how important such symbols are to the British polity, and how fragile, and ultimately empty, the worth of these symbols.
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Brian
Just watched FMQ on the iplayer. Re Aunty Bella,s comment about AS and a haggis. Liked his response, though I could not help wondering what the response would be from The Gray man and Tavish.
They would probably have raised endless points of order, demanded an inquiry into standards, and demanded our favorite aunties resignation.
Or would it be "Please sir that big girl is being nasty to me, I'm going to tell my mum"
Interesting Broon appearing in The Broons. I guess that will be the only contribution he will make to the homecoming given how much he hates Scotland. Whats the betting if AS was not going to be in it, he would not have let them use him.
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Is it even possible that the unionists are implying that Kenny MacAskill is soft on crime?
About as credible as worrying that Jackie Baillie is missing too many breakfasts or Pauline MacNeil would be better if she wasn't so soft spoken.
As for Annabel's jibe about Salmond. I switched on BBC Scotland News yesterday evening just before 530pm to hear the newsreader say " this of course refers to Annabel Goldie saying that Alex Salmond looks like a haggis. Now the traffic News...."
If the First Minister had said that Miss Goldie had a face like a haggis people would have thought it very rude. I suspect that if Miss Goldie had hinted that he resembled one of the Broons it wouldn't have got a gleeful mention on the Scottish evening news.
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#47 bluelaw
So comparisons with the great chieftain o' the puddin' race aside, are you now maintaining that it is, in fact , Auntie Annabel who is the unacceptable face of Scottish Politics?
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#48, timepassescarmichael wrote:
"I have real difficulty having an attachment to these little coins, and notes, with the face of the monarch stamped upon them. "
Well, apart from a certain Master Porter, most contributors here appear to agree (at least, about the monarch part - unless you mean the 'Monarch of the Glen'), although whether Lord Ilay or Sir Walter Scott are any better is debatable.
With both RBS and BoS mired in financial difficulty, perhaps they should consider a joint issue of notes to limit costs, with the hope that Clydesdale would fall into line - thereby achieving a definitive Scottish banknote design. (I confess I don't know if this would be permissible, having regard to the dispensation which allows Scottsh banks to issue notes; it might be that each bank would have to issue its own notes but these could easily be made identical in all respects other than the naming of the issuing bank.)
As it is, cash is quickly going out of fashion, and with the likely rollout of 'wave and pay' technology (allowing so humble an item as a newspaper or a packet of crisps to be purchased via a payment card), the need to use other than plastic will be further limited.
Already, less than 20 per cent of my 'cash' expenditure uses notes and coins, whilst my debit card can often be used several times in a day.
At the situation progresses, does it really matter what we call the currency? Transactions will be reduced to mere numbers on a bank statement.
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#35, Brownedov
Good call.
I knew there was a seventh which should have come to mind, if only because having a 'Six-Up' to drink (consisting of one shot of each brand) doesn't have the right sound!
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Of course Goldie, like Gray and Scott, is the unacceptable face of Scottish politics. She's nothing but an agent for a foreign government.
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Watching FMQs, and the ready wit of Alex Salmond (like him or loathe him - and few are ambivalent - he is a card), I do think that Jack McConnell can count himself lucky that he only had to face Ms Sturgeon [what is it with SNP and 'fishy' names?; sorry, I'd better not carp on about that] and didn't have to go into the chamber once a week with the prospect of being kippered by Wee Eck.
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Neil_Small147 castigates MacAskill for going to Canada when there is a summit on knife crime. Now, there is nothing wrong in forming the opinion that the knife summit required the attendance of the ustice Minister, we’re all entitled to our opinion. However, Neil deliberately seeks to belittle the visit, and indeed Burn’s suppers, by describing the it’s purpose as to attend a “long distance haggis supper”. This insulting description is unneccessary and one is left wondering why Neil felt the need to add it to his comment.
Furthermore, by presenting the visit (as the media and Labour are doing) as nothing more than a MacAskill social jaunt of little merit we can begin to have doubts as to the motives of those who are presenting it thus. The actual story is that he is honouring a long standing commitment to go to Canada in order to promote the homecoming, so why not say this?
This commitment was made before the knife crime summit was organised. Fergus Ewing, whose portfolio includes violence, anti-social behaviour and youth crime, is attending the summit in MacAskill’s absence, an able and as you can see a very apt deputy. It could be argued that the nature of the summit fits more with Ewing’s portfolio than that of MacAskill
This story is as a result of another Labour MSP calling for yet another ministerial resignation (this time Kenny MacAskill). I wonder just how many times Labour MSP’s have called for the resignation of SNP ministers? perhaps someone could compile a list.
Neil adds the ‘no doubt some will say’ criticism of anyone who suggests that this is an example of press bias against the SNP. Perhaps it is Neil, perhaps it isn’t, however my own opinion is that it pales into insignificance when compared to other more important stories. I am also of the opinion that Labour complaints of this nature are vaccuous and aimed only at providing some kind of diversion in Scotland to the economic disaster that is unfolding as a result of the incompetence of their own party at both Westminster level and Holyrood.
As far as the press in Scotland are concerned, I have yet to see anyone post a comment that sought to explain the campaign we witnessed recently where everything and anything was used in order to produce an anti SNP story. I make no apologies for highlighting the fact that I, and others, predicted that it would happen.
As Brown now takes a deserved hammering from a very real media down South, I confidently predict that stories of the one Neil alludes to will again feature prominently in Scotland.
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#54
OK, I confess, I walked face first into that one.
So much for my feeble attempt to inject a note of humour into the proceedings. Perhaps I should just leave that to Brian (or maybe aye_write) in future.
Feasgar Mhath!
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#46. Neil_Small147
An example of media bias
"It did this against the background of a lot of misreporting in the press and Gordon Brown’s stated desire to return it to class B."
Why not Nicola as she will turn more heads than Alex except she is busy trying to sort out past administrations failings to the health service which is fundamental to all our wellbeing.
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#54, bluelaw:
"Of course Goldie ... is the unacceptable face of Scottish politics. She's nothing but an agent for a foreign government."
Annabel Goldie, agent of the Brown government ?!?!?
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I don't have a sense of humour about independence and the treatment of Scots under union. People laugh while people die.
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More pathetic partisan and largely-baseless stories on the beeb today I see. Cathie Jamieson blah blah blah thinly-disguised Liebour press-release, blah blah blah (anyone care to take note Fergus Ewing, who is attending the Conference, has responsibility for both violent and youth crime is - incidentally?), Douglas Fraser ... Scotland's Recession ... (nothing to do with decision-makers in London ...). Distractions all.
What is Broon doing to 'save' the UK economy, he has personally so damaged (via the last 11 years of financial policy)? If his idea is still: "the same as last time", why is the media NOT on the spot demanding answers? Instead of indulging Aunty Bella, and other untrustworthy distant relations (the Liebour front bench, which admittedly I largely cannot name)!
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#60 Bluelaw
Without wishing to appear facetious, woudn't that last part still hold true in an independant Scotland? Or does the fact that they would die free make a difference?
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#59,
well Brown certainly is a Tory in disguise. I think he is likely to have a good deal more in common with Goldie politically, than say Goldie and Cameron.
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#58 cynical highlander
I'm all for Nicola as well. She is the one MSP I rate highest in the Scottish Parliament.
#54 bluelaw
I think you need to take a step back here.
Foreign government? So, are the only politicians allowed in Scotland either SNP or Greens?
#54 greenockboy
My opinion of Kenny MacAskill is mine and mine alone. I don't need the numpties in the other parties to decide for me.
I don't care if it is a long-standing committment: yes, absolutely you send someone, but not him. He's not exactly going to have them coming over in droves now, is he?
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Best political joke of the day,
Gordon Brown thinks that denial is a river that runs through Egypt.
As I said before his times up when the jokes start about him, though this one was in The Telegraph so not as unexpected as jokes about him in Scotlands national comic the Daily Record.
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I note we haven't saw Reluctant-to-be-Scottish of late.
He must be too busy shorting Pound against Dollar positions; typically for a unionist enriching himself at the detriment of all.
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"I'm all for Nicola as well. She is the one MSP I rate highest in the Scottish Parliament."
You chaps confirm my view that a successful woman politician, if liked, will have the added advantage from it that loads of men will favour her - cool.
(Who have we women got? Jeez:-)
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#66 BrianSH
Awww, give the poor guy a break. It can't be easy for him now that his "Britain is not officially in a recession" crutch has been swept away from under him.
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#66
"He must be too busy shorting Pound against Dollar positions; typically for a unionist enriching himself at the detriment of all."
Does the SNP still hold with their plan of adopting beggar-thy-neighbour tax policies come independence?
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(Who have we women got? Jeez:-)
;-)
ed
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wonder if the huffy brooding Gordon would have refused to phone and congratulate Nicola if she was SNP leader in May 2007?
I still giggle about Salmonds Jewish mother "he doesnt call, he doesnt write" line which finally humiliated Brown into picking up the phone.
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I Dinna ken what I did, but it's emboldened us all
Sorry!
;-((
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#70
Very funny - esp. if you substitute a male MSP of your choice! Doesn't do it though...
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When a girl realises she isn't the only pebble on the beach, she becomes a little boulder...
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#73 Ed Iglehart
Grrr don't know if this helps but I've looked at page source and its seems to show how you use html in your links and the use of "strong", I'm a novice!
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#73 Ed Iglehart
With a bit of luck, you'll also embolden Neil_Small to be willing to take a risk or two through change, rather than a risk or twenty-two through the status quo.
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Neil_Small147 says:
"My opinion of Kenny MacAskill is mine and mine alone. I don't need the numpties in the other parties to decide for me."
What if it is your opinion, that isn't the point I was making. The point is that there are far more important stories in both Scotland and the UK than this, far more. It is a question of prominence, this is not, I repeat not the most important story in Scotland.
it's prominence on the front pages must be due to some other factor, what do you think that factosr is?
Neil_Small147 adds:
"I don't care if it is a long-standing committment:"We know you don't care, you've made that clear.
Neil_Small147 ends:
"He's not exactly going to have them coming over in droves now, is he?"
I don't know, and nor do you.
Incidently, you haven't explained the 'haggis supper remark'.
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If you think a few token "Scots MPs" can distract from the frightening and depressing reality of our relationship with foreign govt at Westminster that's up to you.
Yes, it would make a difference Scots dying as members of a free and independent nation because at least they would be involved in wars that the Scots either agreed or disagreed with their partaking in and had mandated for accordingly. Not as is the case at present and as shown on TV yesterday where we have recruiting Sergeants in Glasgow hoping for rich pickings off Scotland's now even more impoverished streets for wars that have nothing to do with our interests and everything to do with serving the interests of an Imperialistic London and its Anglo ruling class. And the latter btw has nothing but contempt for ordinary Scots - just like Goldie and her Porridge jibe, we're just something to be made fun of unless we get uppity and then the scorn and insults really start to come our way.
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#69 Anaxim
What else have we got, 'Britain' has nothing left to sell the world other than Burns suppers and Bonny glens!. Even the financial service industries have been revealed to be nothing more than smoke and mirrors.
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Highlander,
I don't use 'strong' so that's some artefact of the parser. I suspect it may be an inaccurate 'paste' on my part, whereby I've stuck the link (which should be bold in #70, but isn't) either before or after my [bold][unbold] hotkeyed link instead of between them...Doh!
Hints for using html on these blogs are here
Anyway, apologies to all, and
Slainte!
ed
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#56 - greenockboy, as has been noted on more than one occasion, our Neil seems to accept Unionist propaganda rather uncritically. In fairness, though, after the flaws in the propaganda have been pointed out, he generally arrives at a more informed opinion.
There's no denying, however, that the Scottish media have went to town on this (are they really that desperate to divert attention away from our Gordy?). The front page headline in that infamous Nu-lab mouthpiece, the Record, was an absolute disgrace, "Stabbed in the Back" (what idiot thought that was an appropriate use of words to highlight MacAskill was not attending a conference on knife crime?) Let's forget the fact that MacAskill isn't really the best person to attend, that Ewing has more experience and knowledge of dealing with knife crime, Labour have spoken and everyone else should fall in line.
Unfortunately, many will.
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#67 - "You chaps confirm my view that a successful woman politician, if liked, will have the added advantage from it that loads of men will favour her "
While it's true that a woman politician can become very successful if liked, the opposite is equally true. Nicola is generally a smart cookie and makes few mistakes, and most forgive her those few because of she is popular. But you only have to contrast that with the treatment handed out to the likes of Bendy Wendy and Jackie Bailie to see what happens if a woman politician isn't liked (and boy, those two are definately not liked!)
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I have just come up with an idea. I shall sell insurance policies to 'non-emboldened' Scots, insuring them in the event of it 'all going horribly wrong' because of independence.
Like most insurance companies I won't pay out of course but it might make some folk feel better.
I could be quids (or euros) in.
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'non-emboldened' Scots'
loving that euphemism but I suppose if youre looking for business "North Brit fearties" could alienate people :O)
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#83 ForteanJo
"But you only have to contrast that with the treatment handed out to the likes of Bendy Wendy and Jackie Bailie to see what happens if a woman politician isn't liked (and boy, those two are definately not liked!)"
I absolutely agree! I can't stand women who bring the rest of us women into disrepute - I could name several, mostly all from the Labour party. They are a type (very 'cringy' on Question Time).
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67. At 4:36pm on 23 Jan 2009, aye_write:
She is probably the most professional and competent politician we have. I was on the QT show in Glasgow two years ago and off camera she was as effective as on. I also have it on good authority that away from public she is very effective.
You could say that Alex Salmond is the figurehead, but in my personal opinion not the person to take things to the next level.
Unionist-biased media or not, he has had a few punctures with his comments. Nicola so far seems untroubled and unlikely to be either.
As for certain comments made, I am not influenced by the flipping tabloid press. And I would not buy the Record if paid to do. The only publication I buy religiously is Private Eye. They don't care what party they criticise. And by the way, I was aware MacAskill was flying over to Canada before the press splashed it everywhere.
#60 bluelaw. Can you please this comment. Is there some outbreak of anti-Scottish disease? And your comment about recruiting sergeants is appalling. This is not Britain 1916. You need a reality check.
#78 greenockboy: Haggis supper - go to the local chippie and ask for one. Perhaps the metaphor was too complex for some people.
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#87 Neil_Small147
Well, she gets my vote!
Interestingly, I first liked her because I found her similar to Alex Salmond, just in her approach to camera, intonation and such like. I hadn't heard much about her at the time and I found the above added gravitas to her image. As leader however Nicola may or may not be quite so bulletproof. I'm glad you like her though.
Were you on the panel or did you speak from the audience!
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#87 Neil_Small147
You are right this isn't Britain 1916 but we won't be too far ahead
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88. At 7:59pm on 23 Jan 2009, aye_write wrote:
#87 Neil_Small147
Were you on the panel or did you speak from the audience!
I was on the panel for the run through they do prior to the show proper! It really is an eye-opener and gives you an idea what it must be like sitting there for real. I'd highly recommend anyone to apply for the show. Maybe Brian can get invites for a few from here onto the panel proper. :p (and no I don't work for the BBC either!)
I did get one comment out near the end which was aired. This will surprise a few here but I ripped into the "left-wing BBC and their bias against Scotland". Pointing out that the HYS at the time seemed determined to drive a wedge between Scotland and England.
I may not be an SNP fanatic, but I am patriotic.
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My comment about recruiting sergeants is entirely spot-on. You can bet your last devalued pound that post-industrial Scotland is a much better place for the British Army to recruit than recession-resistant Surrey or Sussex. In fact having grown up in a rich part of the SE it's saddening and depressing to have met so many young Scots who actually have so few choices but a life in the Army. It's so much more a part of the culture that it's shocking. I assure you their socio-economic counterparts in the SE England do not regard or rather do not have to regard the Army in anything like the same light.
I do not envy what befell the Irish historically but I envy their present circumstances. I will say though that at least they had the courage to cut through all the nonsense and 'needing to be convinced' and got their country back.
Scotland is treated no better in reality than any other colonial possession. We are given just enough not to embarrass England on its doorstep. English troops aren't on the streets of Scotland because they don't have to be as we have rolled over, played dead and let them get exactly what they wanted for centuries.
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#90 Neil_Small147
You go into their house and decry your hosts! Good for you!
Don't waste your opportunities.
As for going on the show, as soon as my bum was on the seat I'm sure my foot would be in my mouth. Would dress up as David Dimbleby and sit next to him though, maybe....Davina Dimbleby?
;-)
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91. At 8:20pm on 23 Jan 2009, bluelaw:
So what do you propose then? A ban on Scottish people joining the forces?
Have you served?
I have. And for several years until redundancy under the Tories. Part of that was working in the recruitment side. And it's not about drill sergeants press-ganging youngsters in.
I gained an immense amount of skills, many I use in my current job. I did leave school with good qualification but joined the RAF as it was my desire to do so.
Sometimes the Armed Forces are the best hope for many. People are not stupid. They do accept that they may have to fight wherever the Government of the day sends them. But it is personal choice.
To suggest that the Army/Navy/Air Force is deliberately targetting young Scots to make up depleted numbers to fight on overseas wars is an appalling comment to make.
I don't agree with what is happening in Iraq or Afghanistan. People can see what is happening but they stil wish to join up.
Just because you are unhappy with the current Westminster Government and Union does not mean that young people should be denied, in some cases, the one chance they have to make something of themselves.
Your comments about English soldiers on streets is total nonsense as well. If you must make comments at least make sensible ones and not those that are full of bile.
As for centuries past, the Scots spent more time killing each other than the English ever did.
But it's never Scotland's fault, is it?
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#87 - "Unionist-biased media or not, he has had a few punctures with his comments."
Obviously, Salmond is the big bear any Unionist would love to take down so all the efforts are concentrated on him, with some side shows for the likes of MacAskill, etc. That being the case, occasionally the Unionists will be able to trip Salmond up from time to time.
"As for certain comments made, I am not influenced by the flipping tabloid press"
The reason I made that comment, Neil, is that on more than one occasion, you have aped an criticism that had been levelled by a Labour MP/MSP, only to concede that the criticism was perhaps not warranted when the other side of the equation was pointed out to you. The most recent example was in the demand for the return of "old bones" (a meaningless motion, as you put). This was the same accusation made by Labour. However, when it was pointed out that there was some merit in the request, and other countries throughout the world are engaged in these types of "reclaiming heritiage" actions, you conceded that you were "all for educating people and where appropriate ensuring artifacts are returned". So hardly a meaningless motion, then, was it?
From this quick about face (at 8:55 pm, you agreed with the Labour criticism, at 11:15 pm you didn't), it's difficult to believe that you hadn't simply been handed your original opinion by a Unionist media. And that isn't a unique example. A trawl through the archives shows this happening on more than one occasion.
"by the way, I was aware MacAskill was flying over to Canada before the press splashed it everywhere."
Yet you choose not to criticise MacAskill until Labour (and the Unionist media) had done so. Now, either that's because you were waiting for an opinion to be handed to you or...well, actually I can't think of another reason, other than you chose to keep your own counsel. However, if that was your reason for keeping quiet about MacAskill at first, it's bad form to then join in the criticism at a later stage. Reeks of kicking a man when he's down.
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94. At 8:47pm on 23 Jan 2009, ForteanJo:
Old bones? How else do you want me to describe what's left of an old queen then? 200 odd pieces of calcium?
My God, if you think Christine Grahame is the pinnacle off politics then best of luck to you. Do you think her latest venture into the realms of rock is good as well? For your information, the story regrding AC/DC was posted on the BBC, without any criticism whatsoever.
And stop taking comments out of context, that's what the unionist media do. Or hadn't you noticed in the glare of Alex.
But if you wish to trawl the blogs to make personal attacks then by all means do so. At least it keeps you busy.
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Nothing like a mature voice?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GPgm69pMRUU
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#93 - "Your comments about English soldiers on streets is total nonsense as well. If you must make comments at least make sensible ones and not those that are full of bile."
Yes, because a Westminster government has never deployed troops in earnest on Scottish streets. Oh, but wait, they have and in the last 100 years too.
But still, a ridiculous comment. Although, I'm sure Unionists would have said the same 100 years ago.
"To suggest that the Army/Navy/Air Force is deliberately targetting young Scots to make up depleted numbers to fight on overseas wars is an appalling comment to make."
By all accounts, recruitment for Scottish forces is up by approx 15% due to the credit crunch (and that figure came from reports in November - what would it be now?) This follows years where, nationally, recruitment fell due to factors such as Iraq, etc.
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Good old Alf those were the days that was.
I see bendy Wendy's cohort likes to help a family business at our expense old habits seem ingrained.
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Neil_Small147 writes:
"greenockboy: Haggis supper - go to the local chippie and ask for one. Perhaps the metaphor was too complex for some people."
I know what a haggis supper is, everyone who reads these comments also knows what it is, if they are Scottish. Ad-hominem attacks like this are no substitute for informative and qualified comment.
Furthermore, it was not a metaphor, it was a disparaging remark that you are now clearly trying to portray as something altogether different.
I repeat, this story does not merit front page headlines of the sort we are witnessing.
Here are a few stories that probably did merit such, but never appeared in the Scottish press!!
Brown bounce over as tories take 14% poll lead.
Marshall resigns amid £500,000 expenses row.
Brown has lost confidence of 60% of UK business leaders.
Iceland attack Labour over 'insolvency' remarks.
Iceland to take UK to court over asset seizure.
Norway criticise Murphy over remarks.
Government in £461 million bale out of London Olympic projects.
Britain close to bankruptcy say experts.
Brown has wrecked UK economy say experts.
Gordon Brown refuses to admit return of 'boom and bust'
We'll have to go begging to the IMF, says Cameron.
Anyone of these stories merits at least a lead headline in the politics section of a Scottish quality journal. They are all at least as important, probably more so, than the MacAskill story headlined today.
Indeed, the Marshall story merited not only a headline (an accurate one !!) but further investigation.
The MacAskill headline had some effect in Greenock today as a relative of mine testified. Many people swallowed the whole story without even appreciating the fact that Fergus Ewing's portfolio was arguably more suited to attending.
Some actually believed that the SNP have ignored the summit, such is the power of a headline.
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#95 - "Old bones? How else do you want me to describe what's left of an old queen then? 200 odd pieces of calcium?"
So, Neil, are we back to the Labour attack that the request for the return of Mary's remains is a "meaningless motion"? That's how you originally described the request. Nothing taken out of context, your words.
As for trawling the blogs to make personal attacks...don't be silly, you're no where near that relevant. I merely pointed that out for your own benefit. Ken thyself, 'n a' that. Others on this blog ken you weel enough a' ready.
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#94 Fortean man, you are on fire tonight!
(I've unashamedly blog raked - admittedly half the time for my own stuff! ;-)
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Neil_Small147 wrote:
"My God, if you think Christine Grahame is the pinnacle off politics then best of luck to you."
Neil, you are in danger of losing credibility by addressing opinions that people have not expressed.
You have also accused another poster of making personal attacks. However there is a clear difference in highlighting possible inconsistencies on your posts and a personal attack.
The poster has qualified his assertion that you appear to form opinions based on headlines. Feel free to explain how and why he is incorrect, for, as far as I can see he has provided evidence to back up his point.
People are addressing your comments and from time to time pointing out some inconsistencies in your claims, they are not personnally attacking you.
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Scots pound meets the Goldie standard while sterling struggles
The first paragraph brought a smile.
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#99, Just another example,
BBC cannot broadcast an appeal for Gazan civilians (in case the public thinks it is 'not impartial'); but it can put out material verging on Labour propaganda north of the border!
Instead of pursuing any of the very important stories you suggest, we get this constant sneering tone against anything the Holyrood administration does/says, does not do/does not say.
The MacAskill Story is important, but not half as significant as they economic turmoil brought on by maladministration on the UK Govt's part.
Why are we not hearing about recent polls? Or seeking answers from Broon and his darling as to why the economy is in freefall, and why - specifically - it will be worse here than any other major economy?
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I don't care what skills people get in the Army. The british Army recruits its squaddies from poor areas. When the lower ranks of the British Army are mostly made up of middle class Southerners then I'll change my mind.
Aside from that, no self respecting Scot should have anything to do with the British Army. No matter how decent or well intentioned the recruit may be they are nothing more than badly paid, badly funded, badly protected, badly led Mercenaries fighting Imperialistic wars for an Anglo-American elite that treats ordinary Scots and English with nothing but contempt.
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97. At 9:26pm on 23 Jan 2009, ForteanJo wrote:
#93 - "Your comments about English soldiers on streets is total nonsense as well. If you must make comments at least make sensible ones and not those that are full of bile."
Yes, because a Westminster government has never deployed troops in earnest on Scottish streets. Oh, but wait, they have and in the last 100 years too.
But still, a ridiculous comment. Although, I'm sure Unionists would have said the same 100 years ago.
"To suggest that the Army/Navy/Air Force is deliberately targetting young Scots to make up depleted numbers to fight on overseas wars is an appalling comment to make."
By all accounts, recruitment for Scottish forces is up by approx 15% due to the credit crunch (and that figure came from reports in November - what would it be now?) This follows years where, nationally, recruitment fell due to factors such as Iraq, etc.
-------------------
My comments were aimed that the post in question implied that the Armed Forces were deliberately targetting recruits in order to send them to Iraq. Read bluelaw's post if you don't believe me. Recruitment always goes up when the economy drops. It's not only Scotland suffering, many parts of England are as well.
As for your post #100.
A Labour attack re Mary Queen of Scots? Most people thought this and and the AC/DC motion were a total waste of time. Even old_nat backed me up re Christine Grahame.
#102 greenockboy
The media may be biased I agree, but Christine Grahame was a godsend for them with her two recent motions, which do have their time and place I suppose, but not right in the middle of 1979 revisited. Why did she not raise a motion, for example criticising Mr Straw and Mr Hain? OK, it's Westminister but it reminds the public that it isn't only Wendy who is prone to "oversight".
Labour are the masters if spin, even if they are heading for the abyss.
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Forteanjo, I just made some reference to the "soldiers in the streets" etc on my last post, but look at #105 and you will see exactly what I am getting at.
The Geneva Convention describes a mercenary as "motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party".
I hope the poster remembers this whenever there is a civil emergency (fire, flood etc) and the Armed Forces are called out to support them. Of course they will be too busy fighting wars to make money.
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No doubt people get great skills in the army, and many join out of a genuine desire to serve 'their country' - whatever they happen to identify that as (and in my experience I am surprised by the number who unambiguously say "Scotland fullstop").
bluelaw #105 has a point in saying that so many are recruited from poor areas, where there is little or no alternative, but IMPO goes too far in saying that "no self respecting Scot should have anything to do with the British Army". While I admit it makes me personally uncomfortable, and I agree that the wars they are currently fighting are largely dreamed up for the Govt's own nefarious reasons ... you should not damn the troops on the ground for the "war aims" of the Generals or the politicians who sent them there.
Incidentally I think Neil #93 near acknowledges the point on limited opportunities when he says that it is the best option for many - or words to that effect. The point is it shouldn't be, and in the future it mustn't be.
That said, while I dislike wars; I dislike more those who 'take the king's shilling' and then decide this one isn't for them!
#93 Neil, while I respect your opinion and the fact that you have 'served your country', I have to disagree with you partially as well.
You say the Tories effectively made you redundant (from the military).
You have to acknowledge that redundancy from civilian jobs is now driving army recruitment!
I personally know individuals who have been searching for employment for months, who have effectively given-up and turned to the military.
People who have dropped out of training too and joined-up, because they realise the lack of opportunities waiting for them.
"To suggest that the Army/Navy/Air Force is deliberately targetting young Scots to make up depleted numbers to fight on overseas wars is an appalling comment to make."
It looks an awful lot like a simple fact to me. Scots are being particularly targeted. Indeed, the Army (which refuses to fly the Saltire alongside the Union Jack at many of its bases - most notably Edinburgh Castle), is using the Saltire alone, without the Union Jack, in many of its recent recruitment 'adverts' on the television.
Why else would the army, which refuses to fly the Saltire alongside the Union Jack, use solely the Saltire in recruitment drives - other than to maximise the number of young Scots who would consider that career path?
Why else would these individuals be targeted other than to make up depleted numbers in the army? An army which far from 'coming home' (as the beeb will no doubt tell us), is going to have the absolute numbers currently in Iraq simply shifted to Afghanistan (due to the foreign policy aims of the new Obama Administration in the US).
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#106 - "As for your post #100.
A Labour attack re Mary Queen of Scots? Most people thought this and and the AC/DC motion were a total waste of time. Even old_nat backed me up re Christine Grahame. "
I don't have a problem with people thinking the demand is a waste of time, etc. Personally, I think at the moment there are other priorities (I did say that in my original post). However, I appreciate that others think that this is an important issue and Labour is being hypocritical when the Labour Government are acceding to request from the likes of Egypt whilst Labour MPs are poo-pooing requests from SNP MSPs, with the obvious implication that Egyptian heritage is somehow important whilst Scottish heritage is not.
But that wasn't the issue I was highlighting. What I was highlighting was your rapid conversion from critic to conceding that Grahame's request had some merit. A conversion that happened so fast, it's easy to believe that you hadn't really considered the issue in the first place, that you had just had the intended knee-jerk reaction Labour were aiming for. And the minute somebody said "aye, but...", you about faced and said "aye, right enough".
Now, this isn't intended as a personal attack, indeed I did qualify my original comments by stating that you usually come back with a more informed opinion once an issue is opened up and shown to be less black and white than Labour like to paint it.
But where are we with Grahame's motions. Okay, the AC/DC was ill-judged (I did say that) but the request for the return of Mary's bones. Was that a meaningless motion too (I notice you're back to grouping the 2 together) or are you still "all for educating people and where appropriate ensuring artifacts are returned"?
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108. At 11:29pm on 23 Jan 2009, pattymkirkwood:
It was the TONE that got my back up. The Armed Forces have been running light for about 20 years now. But the advertising is different depending on what part of the country they are recruiting from.
I agree that many people are turning to the forces since there is no other option, and the Armed Forces provide a much greater package of recognised qualifications than in the past.
I am totally against the Iraq campaign. I could accept the reasons for Afghanistan at the start (just after 9/11) but not Iraq. From a resource perspective, Iraq is the reason Afghanistan is such a mess, since Iraq got priority on equipment and supplies.
Many people identify the Armed Forces as the problem - the problem as you correctly surmise lies with the Government.
Easy to blame the troops for their career choice- but what is the alternative?
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Neil, they're all discussing you, so I might aswell!
Fortean,
Under Neil's star sign, Aquarius (stay with me, it's not quite religion!), with his birthday in, no, tomorrow, he is supposed to be fascinated by solving life's mysteries, to the point of playing devil's advocate in order that the mysteries don't get sloved. There is other stuff, but I am bored all of a sudden. (It's only fun.)
Therefore, I am saying, is it worth questioning whether Neil firmly believes all that he says, or is he happy trying to avoid doing that? Nonsense over. (This nonsense over. :-)
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#110, Neil - my point is we need to ensure there are alternatives for people, so areas don't develop where this is the only choice for many. This is only beginning to touch many people I know well; but these areas exist and have been out there for decades where the choice is effectively: the armed forces or unemployment. It is not good enough.
You will not be surprised to find out I think it is another issue that the full range of powers of a sovereign nation-state would equip us best to solve in Scotland. There is too much self-interest on the part of the Westminster Govt. in ensuring that Scotland continues to contribute disproportionately to military ranks to actually tackle the issue. We can leave that debate aside for now.
Incidentally, I can appreciate your point about the tone. I too despise the Iraq adventure, but it is unhelpful and unfair to damn those merely carrying out their jobs.
As you can tell the Saltire/Union Jack issue is something of a bugbear for me. It is wholly disingenuous for the army to recruit under one flag and have their soldiers fight exclusively under another.
Thanks for the reply.
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#112 "Mercenaries" for me is simply too far. I do not approve of what they have been ordered to do, but I do not blame them. Instead, it is the fault of the high-up commanders and politicians.
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Have you seen the Telegraph forecasting a Depression comparable to the Great Depression of the 1930s?
We are living in interesting times, my dears. The foundations of the UK state are crumbling.
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#115 U-Boat_thingy
Naturally I do not wish the cloud, I rue its ill effects, but for the silver-lining, I'm to say 'excellent'.
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#87 Neil_Small147
"I was on the QT show in Glasgow two years ago"
The Beeb don't pick the pre-show panel at random. Normally, they ask political parties/community organisations(?) to nominate an appropriate spokesperson for the warm-up.
Who nominated you?
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Neil_Small
Amendment to my query.
I don't want to know exactly who nominated you. However, if it was a political organisation, you really need to let us know which one.
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#118 oldnat
I wonder how many times Question Time has travelled to Aberdeen? Not many probably.
I hope that, well into a referendum campaign, they do head to the AECC, or better the University (looks more 'wise'), as there are plenty pro-independence views around the north east. (I can't speak for Aberdeen, but surely Labour have got to be less popular given the council deficit fiasco.) So the audience of seemingly ordinary folk would be an effective advert, in my view.
I don't know to what extent the BBC would ignore a referendum and let 'regional' programming cover it.
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118. At 04:30am on 24 Jan 2009, oldnat wrote:
Neil_Small
Amendment to my query.
I don't want to know exactly who nominated you. However, if it was a political organisation, you really need to let us know which one.
------------
For the record, I am not a member of any political organisation nor have been. I have a strong interest in politics (as you may have noticed).
I applied via the BBC QT website and got a call from someone, probably the producer. I was asked about my views on current affairs and my voting preference. To enlighten you, I vote on whatever party provides in my view the best option. So I have voted for Conservatives and Labour in the past. What stopped me voting SNP last time around is the local candidate and previous experience of them in the past. Would I vote for them this time around? Probably, but the local candidate needs to improve on constituency matters.
The crowd that night was a little bit partisan, and was actually heavily in favour of the SNP.
A colleague of mine from work was there that night as well, and his reasons were of interest. He sits fairly neutral but has an intense interest in current affairs.
For your information, the pre-show part is for sound and camera checks. The floor manager asked for volunteers, and being at the front I stuck my hand up. So where you get your nominations idea from I don't know.
For the questions, they get everyone to write down theirs before going into the hall, and they select eight, although only about three I think got asked.
The pre-show part is quite fascinating. Apart from the technical bits as mentioned above, the floor manager gets the audience into the swing of things. The debate got quite lively and that was before the real politicians (and one journalist) arrived! Made this blog look a little tame at times.
No-one, repeat no-one nominated me. I'd swear that in a court of law.
I would never appear in such a situation to represent the political interests of others. If they don't have the balls to do so themselves then they do not deserve to be in politics.
On the night in question, we had David Steel, Auntie Annabel, Nicola, Wendy and David Aaronovich (spelling?). And yes, Nicola wiped the floor with Wendy. Annabel was in fine form as was David A. Mr Steel was a disappointment though.
I don't know what the most explosive panel could be, but I'm thinking on the lines of George Galloway, Alex Salmond, Mandelson and Ken Clarke. Throw in Tommy Sheridan as well.
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#120 Neil_Small147
"I don't know what the most explosive panel could be, but I'm thinking on the lines of George Galloway, Alex Salmond, Mandelson and Ken Clarke. Throw in Tommy Sheridan as well."
Not quite, I'd nominate bluelaw :-)
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Don't get over excited by QT in Scotland ,it is a mealy mouthed non event with the odd, and I do mean odd, political activist in the audience.
Sir David is consistently irritating and the panel are rarely asked questions to which anyone wants an answer.
There was a memorable example from Lothian , where we witnessed Ms Sturgeon , some unfunny comic from England, a shadow spokesmen for health from Westminster , Lady " Haversham" wheeled out and well passed her prime for the Liberals and Mr " Chattering Classes " himself , Mr Cairns.
The questions were dire and the answers worse.
I think the BBC must be quite scared to bring QT here.
I don't think they 'll take it to Stoke ever again either which for my money ,was one of the best and least inhibited QT for some time.
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122. At 10:26am on 24 Jan 2009, DisgustedDorothy:
I too get the feeling QT has been watered down of late. We want to see high profile politicians and see them squirm as well as getting some proper debate.
And panellists should always be connected to the region for that programme.
The questions can be disappointing at times, but when David D selects a comment from the audience he has no idea what is coming.
By the way, the show I was on was not edited. It was shown on tv about an hour about recording was complete. Bit disconcerting seeing yourself having a rant on the tv about 90 minutes after the event!
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#120, Neil_Small147:
"Mr Steel was a disappointment though."
With Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (and, earlier, Lord Steel of Aikwood) displaying no apparent interest in serving the interests of their countrymen in the 'Upper House' of the UK Parliament, thereby diminishing the Scottish input to discussions, is it now time for the SNP to abandon its opposition to nominating prospective members of the House of Lords?
As to the most 'explosive' QT panel, the absence of any Northern Irish participant is marked! (But as anyone who has ever done anything 'wrong' - whether in terms of legality or simple morality - will argue, you can't change the past, so move on...)
Best QT panel ever (3 March 1988): Tarzan, Dr Death and the Beast of Bolsover (i.e. Michael Heseltine, David Owen and Dennis Skinner), together with Susan Crosland (who she?), presided over by the marvellous Sir Robin Day.
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Personally I'm used to seeing Wallace's pies on my fivers and a good dollop of a Forfar bridie on my tenners. It always seems to happen on my notes when I manage to visit Dundee.
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To answer my own question (#124), Susan Crosland was of course the widow of former Foreign Secretary Anthony Crosland.
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The Scottish parliament do not have the right to design any side of any possible Euro note!.
I would have thought that some of the arm chair experts would have spotted that!!
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#127, Rustigjongens:
"The Scottish parliament do not have the right to design any side of any possible Euro note!."
As the First Minister highlighted at FMQs - you might try watching the source material before decrying the 'inapplicability' of its content - he was advised that, having regard to the existing position where Scottish notes circulate alongside those of the Bank of England (the UK Central Bank), it would most likely be acceptable to have Scottish euronotes circulating alongside those of the European Central Bank.
Of course, these notes would not be legal tender (as indeed is the case with current Scottish banknotes, indeed all banknotes circulating in Scotland), but the ECB would not be inclined to block distinctively Scottish notes issued by Scottish banks and used exclusively within Scotland.
(The situation elsewhere in the Euro-zone would be largely akin to the dubious status of Scottish banknotes in England at present.)
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#127 Rustigjongens
I know nothing of armchairs except that you cannot get them at Land of Leather any more as they've gone bust (that whole sector is in deep recline).
Ye'd better sit doon til yer hurry gangs by.
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When is the UK going to wake up that its a "Busted Flush" an article by Mathew Parris
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#130 cynicalHighlander
I heard a toilet flush...
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bluelaw
re my #121
I only meant you've got more energy than most of us put together.
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Ed
You're not forgiven for turning the blogs bold?
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Aye,
I'm not forgiven for trying to provide a link to The Disasters Emergency Committee, which consists of: Action Aid, British Red Cross, CAFOD, CARE International UK, Christian Aid, Concern Worldwide, Help the Aged, Islamic Relief, Merlin, Oxfam, Save the Children, Tearfund, World Vision.
And which is the topic leading every news bulletin at the moment....But my efforts are deemed "off topic", even on the PM blog, where it is the topic of at least half the comments...
Hint: There exist excellent search engines.
;-)
ed
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137 Ed Iglehart
The Beeb is stuck in following the party political line which starts to bring in their whole impartiality and creditability. There stance on this will do them a lot of harm here at home as well as abroad.
Sad times in the UK when freedom of information is withheld by the Government and their Police. The sooner we get untethered from this State control the better for all Scots.
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The thread topic is actually Wickedness!
Nuff said!
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Highlander,
"The sooner we get untethered from this State control the better for all Scots."
I hope that includes such incomers as me!
Edward Scott Iglehart
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#140, Ed Iglehart
Spend any time at all with journalists, and you will learn that a story's headline is rarely - oh so very rarely - to be confused with its "topic"!
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The Scottish press will headline more attacks on this coming week.
The treasury have re-issued a statement that the Scottish government has no powers to replace council tax, the compliant Scottish press will (as The Herald have already done) headline the treasury line.
Like I said, things are bad for Brown and Labour, so it's 'controlled environment' time again for Scottish news.
I would be very interested to know just how many articles critical of LIT have been published since the 2007 election.
I remember the Galsgow East by-election when The Herald and The Scotsman between them ran around 14 such articles in the final seven days of the campaign.
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#120 Neil_Small147
Thanks for the elucidation. I'd obviously been misinformed as to the Beeb's procedures.
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#141 Ed Iglehart
Remember Mazzini's definition of a nation (really the only one that isn't racist) -
"A nation consists of those who consider themselves to belong to it".
There can't be any question as to your being a Scot!
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Ed
and residents.
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Salut! I have just popped in to draw your attention, if I may, to the fact that the French press is now agog at the spectacle of the UK waking up to the fact that it is in a much deeper hole economically than it thought it was in.
Within the past hour, for instance, Le Monde has published a report in which comparison with what happened to ICELAND is drawn! Under the headline 'The British Press Worries about an "Icelandic" scenario for the United Kingdom', the article discusses, among other things, the possibility that, with the stimulus plan and the plan for saving the banks, UK government debt for this year could exceed 10 per cent of Gross Domestic Product, a development which is beginning to lead people to doubt the capacity of the UK to finance its debt.
Le Monde is particularly interested in the Financial Times weekend dossier which questions the ability of the UK to get through the Crisis and in the Evening Standard's recent headline of 'Iceland on the Thames'.
Needless to say, there is nothing in the francophone media to suggest that either the Republic of Ireland or Norway is in such dire straits. Maybe you would do better to cosy up to one of them. At all events, clinging to the English economy would appear not to be such a great way of guaranteeing Scotland's well-being after all.
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At least when I fish for reassurance I catch some...
Thanks guys, I actually read the SNP's documents some time ago, wherein it was intimated that, upon independence, Scottish Citizenship would be available to all legal residents. Thus I have not bothered to seek UK citizenship, and await the opportunity to be the proud holder of a Scottish passport!
SlainteMhor!
ed
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The Beeb is being 'Feeble' BBC under fire over Gaza appeal ban
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#143 Greenockboy,
"Like I said, things are bad for Brown and Labour, so it's 'controlled environment' time again for Scottish news."
That is the most succinct and accurate description of the "Scottish press" I have seen in a very long time.
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If anybody was in any doubt about what the English really think of us I would suggest that they read the Simon Heffer page in todays Telegraph.
Try telling all your friends that we are all part of one great union. What will happen to Scotland when our financial institutions are destroyed the same way our heavy industry was destroyed, and the oil runs out. They will discard Scotland as quick as possible.
If we remain a part of this discredited union for much longer our grandchildren will ask "how could they be so stupid"
As an American friend of mine said last week "I am glad my ancestors were not as timid as you Scots appear to be at present, or we would still be part of your wonderful union"
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From the link provided by Cynical,
Leaving Hamas as the main distributor of aid, a task which they undertook the minute the ceasefire took effect. Of course, they are relatively well-funded by Syria and Iran, and this helps to build their image as the true saviours of their people...meanwhile our side contrives to ensure unhelpful outcomes - are we surprised? Not really. Disappointed? Only as usual.God help the Gazans
Salaam, etc.
ed
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#151 dubbieside, I take it you are referring to this piece of racist nonsense,
"Scots have brought Britain to its knees"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/simonheffer/4325471/Scots-have-brought-Britain-to-its-knees.html
All, imagine the above headline with the term Scots replaced with: "West Indians", "Poles", "Jews", "Muslims" or indeed just about any other human grouping (be it by race, gender, sexual orientation, religious affiliation, ethnic group etc ... etc ...
Then note the absolute silence from the media and the "Brit-land" political elite. Were it any other group Heffer would face prosecution under various hate laws ... but hey its only the Jocks!
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pattymkirkwood
Yes that is the article. Thank you for providing the link, so that more people can read this piece of racist tripe.
I think that we should never forget, before the union apologists start on here, this was a leading article in what is supposed to be a quality broadsheet.
The Telegraph describes Heffer as,
Simon Heffer addresses the core concerns of middle England with savage gusto, covering politics, education, crime, immigration and our national institutions.
I would like a better future for my grandchildren, the only way we have any chance of that is by getting out of this discredited union as fast as possible.
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#154, agreed.
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#121 - "Not quite, I'd nominate bluelaw :-)"
I take it QT doesn't have moderators, then! ;-)
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#153 - Patty, I noticed a lot of the comments on the Telegraph posts tried to dismiss this as tongue-in-cheek, etc. but I suspect it's more Freudian than that. The true nature of the English's feelings towards their fellow Union members is coming to the fore, and it's an ugly beast. The completely unfounded, arrogant beyond belief superiority complex is something most Scots now simply take-a-deep-breadth-whilst-looking-skywards at but the Unionists have let the genie out the bottle in their attempts to supress Scottish nationalism. After years of telling Scots they're subsidy junkies, that the couldn't cope on their own, that Scotland is a economic money pit with huge deficits, it's the Enlgish who are actually buying into this fairytale. And now push has come to shove, Scotland is a easy target to take the complete blame for Britain's economic freefall. After all, it couldn't possibly be the fault of the English, now could it?
However, let's be philisophical about. The irony is that we Scots might be forced into independence by an aggrieved populace of England, a populace who might be willing to pay a fair(er?) price to get rid of us.
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#154 dubbieside
I have just read the Simon Heffer article in The Telegraph, from which the following is quoted:
"The sooner the bunch of Scots who govern us are booted into history the better. I don't say that the English would be any better, but at least we would be paying for our own mistakes rather than someone else's. Never has the case for English independence from the Scots been so overwhelming. Sadly, I suspect that in the present state of penury England will be saddled with them for another 302 years of high-end welfarism at least."
The article as a whole would appear to be encouraging people to blame Scotland for the economic calamity which is currently overtaking the UK. It goes without saying that to blame a minority for failings in the economy and in the state is curiously reminiscent of 1930s Germany.
Fortunately for the Scots, there is an escape route. The time of the parting of the ways would appear to be arriving.
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#149. cynicalHighlander
If the BBC is worried about compromising its independence then they can show the appeal up here where they compromised their independence long ago.
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#153 pattymkirkwood
Thanks for the link.
After my initial shock at the vitriol of this piece, I put my historian's hat on and tried to place it into context.
While I don't remember seeing this kind of stuff in print in Scotland in the 1960's, it's certainly reminiscent of what one often heard - "The English are to blame for our problems". However, one virtually never hear such ideas in modern Scotland.
Bluelaw comes close to that - but that's really a sloppy use of language. When I finally got round to reading his postings on NR's blog, it was clear that he really meant the British elite were the problem, not the English.
Heffer's article, however, was specifically blaming one national component of the UK for England's problems. In the same way that Brown says it was America's fault, a nation that no longer has confidence in itself blames others for its problems.
English nationalism (as opposed to imperialism) is in it's early stages, and we have to expect that they will need to go through the same learning curve as Scottish Nationalists have. You can't blame others for your own problems.
While I think English Nationalism will eventually mature, it may take so long that my initial preference for a Confederal UK as a stop-gap before full independence in Europe now seems unwise. If our populations were more equal, then we could probably cope with one of the "family" acting like an unruly adolescent. However, the size of England means that no political Union with them at all seems better, unless it's within the wider European Union.
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The Heffer article is representing an elite view, which is only now being transmitted to 'Middle England' by the Telegraph et al. Therefore, I stand back from making any general comments about 'the English' and their feelings. It is as unfair to damn them as a nation, as it is to damn all Scots for the failings of Broon and his darling.
ForetanJo - your quite right on the 'tongue in cheek' argument. "Scots are inherently inferior ... oh I didn't really mean it": no. It was quite clear what Mr Heffer meant. I particularly liked the line "some of my best friends are Scots, but ..."
If any other group had been attacked like that, who would have sought to defend such outrageous slander?
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Rivals break with BBC in Gaza row
"But BBC director general Mark Thompson said: "After consultation with senior news editors, we concluded that to broadcast a free-standing appeal, no matter how carefully couched, ran the risk of calling into question the public's confidence in the BBC's impartiality in its coverage of the story as a whole."
'Phosphorus wounds' alarm Gazans
""There was fire, and so much white smoke," she says. "The missile melted my children. My daughter-in-law melted in front of my eyes."
This is a humanitarian disaster caused by a country using a weapon banned by the Geneva convention in areas from where there are civilians. Surely by not screening the call for aid these editors are showing obvious bias.
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#157 ForteanJo
See Mardell's Euroblog "Qs for Ken" #100 for an added dimention, that I thought was interesting.
:-)
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re my #163
Too slow. (Put beers back.)
:-)
What an education these blogs are......
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oldnat, I hope you are right and this stuff will indeed disappear as attitudes mature (and quickly too). I am too young to have seen what you refer to in the 1960s, but I will take your word for it.
Whatever lies at its root this is deeply offensive stuff and I am surprised that a paper that aspires to be a 'quality broadsheet' would publish it ...
With England accounting for c90% of the UK Population, if this sort of vitriol was to become widespread the next couple years could become very uncomfortable for all.
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Aye (163), You do know that the timestamp on any post is a link to that post and will take you straight there.
it can be copied and pasted to make a link right here, for example.
Happy linking!
ed
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Heffer? Told you so. Wake up my fellow Scots because we're the new Irish...
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#160
"...my initial preference for a Confederal UK as a stop-gap before full independence in Europe now seems unwise..."
How interesting you should say that. I must guess it is because you have seen enough of a growth in more fierce negative English nat. output - it has pervaded the main dailys for example. (Strange that underneath they can be nice chaps.) I also look at the trail which you said led you to nationalism, that is you didn't start there. Would that be a reason why some feel a stepping stone is useful I wonder. Not necessarily, as it could just as easily be explained by pure pragmatism, as a means to an end. But I'd suspect a mixture of both, as I contrast it with my own arrival at nationalism, which I've described was when I was small (so simple I suppose that if it's missed as a child, it becomes hidden again), that was beginning at the answer, then left to realise the questions. I do not attempt to rate one route over another.
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#168 Ed Iglehart
I'd don't doubt I don't! Though your question has yet to sink in - I am rather polar (or something?), I concentrate too much on one thing. When I do look into this linking thing I will try it out on a web page of mine and have a good play (saw a previous post all about it). I know if I go there tonight I will not get it!
But, thanks!
:-)
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#170 aye_write
About 5 millennia ago (1960) I first became involved in politics as a Liberal, advocating Home Rule for Scotland (roughly a bit more than what we have now) and EU membership for a Federal UK. Like you, my attitudes were strongly influenced by my parents.
By University, I had moved to the SNP (despite their then opposition to Europe - that was difficult for me!), because I saw no future in a limited Union in a group of wee offshore islands.
After the failure of the 1979 referendum, I left politics, but subsequently briefly joined Labour to work for a devolution commitment within that UK party and to avoid my constituency (then a Tory/Labour marginal) voting in a Thatcherite MP.
Having been a member of 3 different political parties (although none of them represented all my views), I decided I'd had enough of commitment to any party (the activists in all could be pretty bad, but Labour was appalling!), while continuing my commitment to Scottish self-government and membership of Europe.
Once the SNP committed to Independence in Europe, I finally had a party to vote for which hit all my buttons.
I've always been a pragmatist and a gradualist, and my preference for a Confederal UK as a staging post along the way to independence was based on issues like easing the process of an independent Scotland's entry into the EU - let them deal with the problem of the 2 Belgian nations or Catalonia first!
However, all that was based on the prospect of English politics being reasonable and rational. I now don't see that as being a likely position for the next 20/30 years so, as usual, I've altered my preferred strategy for achieving the goal I want to see.
All this is very personal, I know, but you did ask!
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The Scots becoming a scapegoat for what is happening in England is entirely predictable. Most English people are decent enough to see through all this and this must be borne in mind. But for goodness sake. Doesn't this concentrate the mind. Lets put to rest this absurd union once and for all. Vote yes in 2010. Just go in that voting booth, take your courage in your hand and set this our country free. Set your children free for that's what it is no more or less. Taste it and saviour it; real freedom, our country, our peoples, our polity, our economy, our environment, our problems, our dreams, our reality, our nation upright and proud and able to engage properly with all once again.
Scotland forever!
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SNP's local income tax is illegal, says Revenue
Looks like this will be next on the agenda, certainly interesting times ahead.
"CBI Scotland said it would act as a barrier to companies relocating to Scotland because of the costs of collecting it from employees' salaries.
Labour and the Tories are fiercely opposed to the SNP's plan, saying that it would make Scots the highest-taxed in the UK."
CBI obviously anti Scottish with a statement like that, Labour and the Tories I can understand but the CBI!
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As the pro-Union moderators on this blog persistently delay postings whilst updating others an explanation, that is credible wouldn't go amiss. Many thanks in forlorn anticipation. Me a reluctant licence fee payer. (apogolies for rant and typo)
ps. aye_write please can you stop cleaning out your kitchen cupboards as the chilli is making me sneeze.lol
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#173 bluelaw
No disagreement with any of that. I'd just add
Our Europe!
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Thisshould be sent to every household in Britain as pictures speak louder than words.
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#174 cynicalHighlander
Of course, the Labour controlled Treasury have simply fallen into the SNP trap. Didn't they wonder why the SNP had set the proposed rate at 3p - the exact amount of the Variable Rate allowed by the Scotland Act?
The Lib-Dem proposal of varying rates of LIT had merit, but they should now accept that Westminster won't allow their proposal - the SNP one can still go ahead.
I can understand the CBI's concern that they would have had to administer the multiple rates that the LDs proposed, but their costs should be minimal with a single Scottish rate.
The LABoraTORY charge that Scots would be the "most highly taxed in the UK" is of course the usual Unionist lie. Without the Council Tax being levied, the TOTAL tax rate drops for most people.
Second homes will still be subject to non-domestic rates, so the allegation that they will pay nothing is the usual nonsense.
Of course, with independence, we can look at more sensible taxation models - including Land Value Tax - but until then, the SNP have the best model to use the limited structures allowed by the centralist UK.
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Democracy the Labour way
How much longer can we allow these gadgees to remain in power!
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derekbarker - where are you now.
Are you still supporting the Party which has abandoned everything you believe in?
Labour lords change laws for cash.
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#173 bluelaw
More evidence of a growing wave of English demonizing of the Scots as a result of the economic decline of the UK is revealed in the Mail, which has an article reproaching Scottish Treasury officials for having a party (in honour of Burns) at the Treasury while English pride was dashed on the rocks as the UK economy fell off a cliff on Friday and while these guilty men, "some of them wearing kilts", quite brazenly celebrated, "oblivious to the country's economic woes":
"(...) hours later officials at the Treasury showed no signs of guilt as they let their hair down inside the building at the wine-and-whisky-fuelled Burns Night bash. There was little evidence of the gloom that has descended on the British economy as civil servants celebrated the traditional Scottish festival with a meal of smoked salmon and boiled haggis. The lavish do, held in the majestic Treasury building in Whitehall, began at 6pm and was still going at 11.30pm when the last few civil servants emerged to hail black cabs. By then, some of the revellers seemed a little unsteady on their feet while several female officials in cocktail dresses were helped towards waiting taxis.
"A passing black cab driver caught sight of the kilted men exiting the 270-year-old building and struggled to contain his anger. 'The Government has been taken over by the Scottish Mafia,' he said. 'Scotland has independence in all but name yet they swagger down here and decide what happens in England. And look how well they have done!'"
Whether or not there really was such a taxi driver and whether or not he actually said what the Mail is quoting him as having said, this is what the mass readership of that newspaper will be reading tomorrow. There appears to be great anger about the passing of England's false prosperity of recent times, and the finger is clearly being pointed at the Scots, who are thus, it appears, to be the scapegoats for something that England is too proud to take responsibility for itself. The English are blaming us for their woes. This could indeed turn nasty.
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172 oldnat
Well, I'm not afraid of the personal, or much else. But I had not intended to noseyness! I could not have guessed your reply - so thank you for it. (It would have been hilarious if you had been writing your autobiography and just given me a link!)
My beer and I have have 'penned' an, albeit good, 650 word reply along in the same vein, but maybe I'll spare the bloggers and keep that for my autobiography!
:-)
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#175 cynicalHighlander
"ps. aye_write please can you stop cleaning out your kitchen cupboards as the chilli is making me sneeze.lol"
OMG, I've had a Rip Tide (8%) so now I am looking for hidden meanings! (So, I post too much...the message in my posts is too strong...the reaction I didn't know I get is rejection...!!!)
Very funny cynicalHighlander!
:-P
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174. At 9:17pm on 24 Jan 2009, cynicalHighlander wrote:
SNP's local income tax is illegal, says Revenue
Looks like this will be next on the agenda, certainly interesting times ahead.
----------------------
Bit of an eye-opener. I know a fair bit about HMRC processes, but I didn't realise that LIT is not legally viable (according to this anyway).
Puts the Conservatives in a bit of a pickle. If the win the next General Election, will they bring in legislation to allow the Scottish Government to bring LIT in? While I have some reservations about LIT, I would be in favour if the Scottish Government could bring in legisation to make Councils operate as they should - not as property speculators (ie Edinburgh). While you still have local control of your area, it might rein in some of the more free spending councils we have.
The CBI should keep their mouth shut. I've looked into the collection of LIT and I accept that the logistics are possible, despite my previous comments a few weeks ago. Remember, the CBI thinks it would be a good idea to sell off Scottish Water.
The Torygraph article is typical of some English commentators. Having lived many years in England, the newspapers are all the same as here - lurid headlines followed by some flesh inside the cover to distract the wary reader from reading too deeply into the article.
This is why the SNP need to smarten up their marketing and communication. Labour will use every trick in the book. Most people look at headlines, and they will stick in their mind. Another problem is that the SNP is basically left wing, albeit more central (bar the odd commie I suppose). And Labour is still perceived as left-wing, even if they pursue right-wing policies in many areas. So the choice is not always clear cut to your average voter. I think this is one of the reasons Glenrothes turned out the way it did.
As for the BBC and Gaza. At this moment, who gives a damn WHY the conflict happened. There are real innocents who are suffering. The situation is more complex than many others, but that needs put aside for now and get help there.
But everyone has to be careful not to take sides. None of the mainstream parties can be seen to favour one side or the other. A fine balancing act for the diplomats.
172. At 8:52pm on 24 Jan 2009, oldnat wrote:
#170 aye_write
About 5 millennia ago (1960) I first became involved in politics as a Liberal,
-------------------
A Liberal? Oh dear. Was the operation painful, the one to re-insert your brain? :p
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Earliest post in queue Oldnat at 1105; latest Neil at 0036 90 minute wait. is that a record? Of course not.
Slainte!
ed
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That the Beeb is incompetent, we all know. Over 2 hrs for "moderation" is a nonsense.
However, it is now clearly lacking in any sense of reasonable humanity due to its refusal to broadcast the Gaza appeal.
Clearly it has become a stupid organisation as well. Its bias has been self-evident and now it claims that publishing a humanitarian appeal would compromise a "neutrality" that doesn't exist anyway.
Brian, you aren't to blame for your bosses, but they must embarrass you.
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Interesting development on this topic.
How did we arrive as nationalists?
My first political attachment was to the Young Socialists, mainly because my pal's father was a Labour councillor and we could help at sales of work etc.
My grandfather had been a friend of John Buchan when they went through school together and it was related in my family that the said John Buchan was a Tory Scottish nationalist before he took the king's shilling. Anyway grandfather was an enthusiastic supporter of John McCormick and my mother signed the National Covenant and I well remember, when we got a wee tin of sweets to celebrate the Coronation in 1953, asking the teacher why we didn't have our own king and queen so I was aware of a deficit when I was still in primary school. My dalliance with the YS didn't last long once I became aware of the poor calibre of much of the Labour Party in Glasgow though I would certainly consider myself still to the left and very far to the left of the empty shell that is now the Labour Party in Scotland. What triggered my connection to the SNP was buying the Scots Independent newspaper in the Menzies shop at the Central Station in Glasgow on my way to school and it took one lunchtime meeting with the late Oliver Brown somewhere in Sauchiehall Street to send me round to the old SNP HQ in Elmbank Street to join up just after I left school.
That was in 1959 so I'm looking this August at 50 very satisfying years.
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!!!! HAPPY BIRTHDAY NEIL !!!!
You said it's at yours, fancy dress....
;-)
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#184 Neil_Small147
Don't scoff! 49 years ago it was quite reasonable to be a Liberal. Quite different from being a Lib-Dem now of course.
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Re the anti-Scottish media spin.
Does it smack a little bit of desperation? With everyone being more media savvy and having access to online content and so on, could it be that this message the spin-sters are trying to get out is going to backfire? (esp. the longet it goes on)
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I'd given up on Nick Robinson's blog when I seemed to be the only Scot Nat posting on an essentially English blog. However, it's become far more fun now that a number of us are there pointing out the Scottish dimension of what they still want to be the "UK".
The more the merrier guys!
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re my #190
(It doesn't make sense!)
I meant backfire on them. The papers will lose cred. is the effect.
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Bankrupt Britain in the Euro 2012 (McWhirter),
http://www.sundayherald.com/news/heraldnews/display.var.2484389.0.bankrupt_britain.php
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I posted on Nick Robinsons blog, or tried to, kept being rejected.I honestly don't think I was abusive but hey!
I do note ,with increasing delight , how often he gets it in the neck for his lack of impartiality from English posters.
It is good to know that the whole country is beginning to wake up and criticise.
It does make one smile when the BBC goes all po faced about " compromising its impartiality" by not broadcasting the appeal for Gaza.
No matter , they have increased awareness for the appeal by their ridiculous stance.
Would that they were so dedicated to impartiality on other subjects.
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#191 oldnat
Quite a little skirmish: the day they nicked Robinson's blog. Disgusted of Daventry and Dimwitted of Dymchurch will be up in arms.
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#186, oldnat (with many other posts reflecting a similar view):
"... it is now clearly lacking in any sense of reasonable humanity due to its refusal to broadcast the Gaza appeal."
You might want to argue that the initial decision was wrong - I tend to disagree, but am happy to accept the decision either way - but is is important that the BBC is not reduced to giving in to a vocal minority on every contentious issue.
The DG and other executives are paid to take editorial decisions, and you either place your trust in their decisionmaking or seek to replace them.
Recent events tend towards suggesting that the Beeb now gives in TOO easily to external pressure, and confidence in its internal processes should be reasserted.
---
Everyone interested now surely knows that there is an appeal, and can quite easily find out how to offer a contribution.
The clamour for an on-air appeal smacks of people wanting to see suffering on-screen.
If the BBC does ultimately give in, it should be done with a black screen almost throughout (captioned only for the final seconds) - after all, the pictures are much 'better' on radio, anyway!
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DisgustedDorothy,
is derekbarker a friend of yours?
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Willit be Neil_Small148 now...?
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#198
LOL!
Is this an update?
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197
O' on this fine sunday day! what prattle words forfarian displays'
Thou' fear of doom' has bled yae dry'an
honest path does pass by'
Tak a seat on yon soft chair' a' blaw the cob webs fae your fear'The sun will rise another
day! Sae lift your glass and bless this day.
Aternoon fellow mortal!
Oldnat is one enjoying one's self!
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#200
He's back, he's back...
Flags and bunting....
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#181 U-Boat_thingy
A Scotsman Ate My Hamster
A Special Reprot by Dick Wittering of the Rumour Mill on Sunday
"It was awful!" said little Miss Muffet, with an anguished look upon her fair Saxon countenance. "I had just sat down on my tuffet, as one does, when lo, a host of red-haired Scotsmen (some of them wearing kilts!) bore down on me menacingly, some of them swaggering gently in the breeze under the influence of something or other, no doubt. 'Your hamster or your life!' the roughest of a very rough bunch barked out at me gruffly in an almost impenetrable accent. 'Never mind that spider. Hand over the rodent or we'll throw your economy over a cliff!' And they would have done too if they hadn't done so already before conducting some sort of pagan ritual at the Treasury prior to going on a rampage in the highways and byways of England's green and pleasant land, robbing the citizenry left, right and centre and eating their hamsters."
"So what did you do, Miss Muffet, in the face of these marauding hordes of . . . mandarins?" I asked. "Why, I called a cab on my mobile, of course. Almost instantly a passing black cab drew up and the driver caught sight of the kilted men exiting the 270-year-old building [the Treasury, after a staff Burns Supper] and struggled to contain his anger. 'The Government has been taken over by the Scottish Mafia,' he said. 'Scotland has independence in all but name yet they swagger down here and decide what happens in England. And look how well they have done!' he expostulated in heavily ironic disgust.
"Fortunately, the cabbie, whose insightful observations on behalf of an oppressed populace were still ringing in my ears, had the presence of mind to sweep me up in his arms and drive off at speed before the unspeakable ruffians could lay a finger on me. Unfortunately, in the melee, the little furry creature got left behind . . . and a Scotsman ate my hamster."
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#200 derekbarker
D, oh, wise sage ;-)
In the spirit of understanding you started, would you care to share with us your route to red? (How you got hooked to the Labour party.)
I promise I'll share my route to tartan if you do!
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It's not the Scots who are being made the scapegoats due to the current governments economic mismanagement, it is instead every single taxpayer in the UK.
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Latest IPSOS-MORI poll for Britain shows CON 44%(+5) | LAB 30%(-5) | LIB DEM 17%(+2).
It's fairly useless for a more detailed breakdown, as it lumps Scotland in with the North of England. Interestingly, however, it shows the SNP with 20% of the vote in the "North", which seems remarkably high to me. It may be a rogue like the previous YouGov poll showing 28% of Scots voting Tory.
We really do need a new Scottish poll.
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#203
Ah, a ribbon star' a medal of power and wealth? or just a token guesture of common humanity and the shared bread of hardship for the working class.
My mother was born one of eleven in a small village, well more like a row of cottages, at the back of Armadale called Northrigg.My Grandfather was a miner who worked long hours (16 hours a day) at that time the coal mines and the houses that people lived in were all privately owned.Times were extremely hard, pay and condition were very poor.My mother lost a brother to T.B. and a sister to lead poisoning, just putting a daily meal on the table was the order of survival.
Whether you search the record of people like John MacClean and the red clydeside or Kier Hardie, you will find the same message of common sense, to share the proceeds of wealth and decent working condition for the people.
Why labour? out of the depths of desperation and absolute poverty came the peoples party the labour party and for all it's
recent history, it still remains the only party
to fight for the right of the majority in terms of minimum wage, education, health and a collective sense of shared values.
The Bard understood poverty and hard times because he (Burns) endured those times. The Bard also spent some time with the elitist and fled in horror at their ways?.
My history and my tartan is no less worth than yours but my dream for a better way and a better day may well be brighter than yours.
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Special for Burns' Night
Slainte!
ed
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#206, derekbarker:
My mother lost a brother to T.B.
I'm tempted to comment on Tony Blair having cost the country many, many lives since, but it's probably too serious a matter for levty...
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#206. derekbarker
You've been on NR blog; do you not get the feeling that most of the South Britons have a very different set of shared values? Would you not be better to work for an independent Scotland where our collective values will be in the majority?
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#204 Rustigjongens
Alas, the evidence that the Scots are being blamed for the misfortunes that are being visited upon the UK economy at present is hard to miss.
As oldnat has remarked here, "A nation that no longer has confidence in itself blames others for its problems." The English are clearly having difficulty in adjusting to being cut down to size and so are taking it out, "like an unruly adolescent", on their more mature northern neighbours.
The taxpayer is being burdened, of course, but not blamed.
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Only 43 I'm afraid, although it would be interesting to live to 148!
This thing about England blaming the Scots, a lot of the problems lie with Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling being Scottish.
If a referendum poll went ahead in 2010, and said yes, do the Westminster Government have to legally accept the result or could they argue that the breakup would be detrimental to England?
If, as some suggest, Scotland is in effect subsidising England, then one thinks that whatever party is in power in Westminster, they may decide to ignore any result. The Tories wouldn't lose any sleep since they have nothing to lose anyway. So maybe Alex is secretly hoping either Labour somehow win a majority or there is a hung parliament.
Oh, and some credit to Christine Grahame. She's actually done something sensible for once.
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#206. derekbarker
Thank you for your post. I won't apologise for the truth that I find such answers fascinating. (Perhaps my definition of a friend is someone who makes me think?) Anyway...
"Ah, a ribbon star' a medal of power and wealth? or just a token guesture of common humanity and the shared bread of hardship for the working class."
I'm not sure what you mean there, if you are stereotyping or not. But compared to your tale I am bound to sound a spoiled brat. But at least I am honest enough to admit it ;-)
I do not think I am any better that you, never did, don't really consider it. I take people as I find them and treat them as I think they deserve, while trying not to be too serious. Whether that is a good habit, I don't know! It leaves me at the mercy of others' sensitivity, so I try to remember some manners. I don't think it's a route to being 'popular with the masses', but so, I long since severed ties with that master. And I rarely bear a grudge. (If you were trying to figure, there you go :-)
Better copy you and do the background.
My mum comes from the Boat (O' Garten), I think nearby, from a family of six, her mother from a family of seven. They were a poor highland family. My Grandmother worked two jobs and her youngest, Mum, was the only one to make it to University, in Aberdeen, where she met Dad. My uncles and aunts on that side, having made their way up through hard work I suppose, vote Tory. I put it down to a status seek - they value the being able to speak the 'Queen's English'. Needless to say my Doric dad, regardless of IQ, was never good enough for my Grandmother! She was rather formidable.
Dad was the eldest of five and the son of a self-made man, garage business owner Aul' Dunc, a character indeed. ("Ye blin' b*gg*r, ye're deif!" he'd say when trying to find something - "You blind b*gg*r, you're deaf!") From Banff and Buchan, Dad, who built his first car, built his first radio and was proud he could get the World Service on it, was 'the clever one', and the only sibling who escaped the family business to go to University. His side all vote SNP and don't rate traitors who won't!
Both parents worked in London then Fife and then became teachers. Mum taught English, Busines Studies and History, but mainly English (now PT Guidance). So I thank her. Dad lectures in Electronic Engineering etc. (was in Kuwait, now in Milan, next Kazakstan!). So I thank him. I was brought up in rural Aberdeenshire four miles in from the sea. Here's the reply I was half way through, to carry on.
sneckedagain and oldnat
Your political histories are admiral tales. I think we all probably ought to say thank you.
For the sake of perspective (the following does not include an account of many years of political toil), for those who have nothing better to do, this is my track back to becoming a nationalist.
(Careful, this bit may make Sunday school seem interesting.)
Here is what was intended as my original reply to oldnat.
I cannot imagine moving from party to party, maybe for the same reasons that you did - they all cheesed you off! Political parties as I first found them, weren't very impressive, or worse.
Amateurish I thought. In Bon Accord Central or whatever in Aberdeen, the words p-up and brewery came to mind, though other bits of the local SNP party were ok, well, better. I knew I did not want to be like them and to change them, for little ole me, at that time was to accept defeat.
Mr Write reckoned some were dishonourable in that they obviously wanted the party connection so to flash up their CVs and couldn't give a sh about anyone but themselves. Others were rabid (Yes, so hurt by ancient rapes and massacres! On and on and on...!), others inept and the Chair(man) alcoholic, although I'm sure once a clever chap (consumed with regret though, and probably liver disease).
What a bunch. My one-day-to-be husband and I were just green, keen and eager and the two camps did not meet!
Further back it was at Turra Show where I first remember coming across SNP party activists, on the bottle stall in front of the 'yaldie' (yellow) caravan, looking old fashioned even in the 70s. All grinning, bearded and wearing jumpers (I think!), they laughed as I won a bottle of whisky - a grand prize I was pleased with 'til I realised it was worthless to me. 'Ye'll hey teh gee at een teh yer faither, noo!' they boomed, and I remember thinking I hadn't got a clue what they were about. Strange men (mostly men) I thought.
Further back, and taking up your point about parents. Mine made no deliberate effort to influence me other than the occasional mention of, "Well your father and I vote SNP" as if not to do so would bring shame and a lowering of status.
Dad must have been an activist. He is the cause-fighting type and I remember subs in margarine tubs and leafleting. Full of vigour from university, where he shone, to a career in industry, where he shone, no doubt he felt like shining in the SNP too. I suspect he wouldn't have known how not to.
Anyway, there was never any talk of it. Then I was too young and later, probably though lack of time, and I bet a sulky post referendum lack of interest, it all fizzled out, to be all but forgotten.
So what pivotal event did make my mind up? Just a child's view. My nation didn't have the same status as the neighbouring nation. It was strange, unfair, wrong! Why did no one see it, get it? What was wrong with everybody? "This place is....crazy." I thought (from my living room!). I had no faith in my society from that early age. What a brat!
Later I understood Dad's (only) few words on independence. He was clearly a brain of a man and over this strangely he was confused. Normally he had all the answers. (I thought he was a bit fantastic and was captivated, in awe of his wondrous, sometimes deliberately daft explanations.) Yep, he shone at being a Dad too. But he was at a loss to comprehend why some Scots did not have enough self respect to seek self governance. Secretly I suspect this niggled him, if he let it. You would get a taste of his fire when he heard talk of Scots talking Scots, or Scotland down. Few words he spoke. "Traitors." (How could they.)
Unlike you, I naively saw Europe as a compromise - why would we need to cling on to them? Didn't seem to fit in with the 'we can do it all by ourselves, thanks' posturing. However my opinions, though always pro independence, did morph a bit, as things do as you get older! But keeping them to myself, instead I resolved to observe what I did not understand. If nationalists were to succeed I reasoned, they must fully understand the workings of the arguments of their opponents, so these can be deconstructed.
It was having children that made me revive my old interest in seeking independence, for them, and it has only been recently, after seven years plus (and counting) of nappy changing, I have decided and been able to take my brain off standby and look for the guts to return - to the one that achieved nothing but such high grade success at deliberate, and unwitting, failure. Not that I blame anything or anyone other than myself for that.
And so here I am. It's either watch out world - or watch out me.
Derek, I can't honestly say I have decided between the parties. Labour's rosy dream I can't altogether trust. And the Tory's slant of 'I'm alright Jack' is too draconian. The Lib Dems are occasionally good but so often, too 'trendy' and very annoying. Same the Greens, times ten.
Your visions are noble - who could argue with them. As you say, it's just the way of going about it that's the issue. I can't see an all glowing 'equality for all' happy future coming from the starting block of this iniquitous Union. So much of a contradiction do I see this disadvantage that I want to start again - for the betterment of our next generation. We are not so different, Derek.
On Burns, you might take a look at this from Scottish Review
http://www.scottishreview.net/KRoy070.html
"My history and my tartan is no less worth than yours but my dream for a better way and a better day may well be brighter than yours."
Is it? Come and present your ideals in an Independent Scotland. You might have a better chance of achieving them then than you do now.
:-)
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#207 Ed Iglehart
My Grandad penned a particularly blue version of Tam o' Shanter! My Grandmother keeps it somewhere safe.
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Hardeep Singh Kohli: Burns speaks for a Scotland that forges its own future
‘Soviet’ Britain swells amid the recession
"Across the whole of the UK, 49% of the economy will consist of state spending, while in Wales, the figure will be 71.6% – up from 59% in 2004-5. Nowhere in mainland Britain, however, comes close to Northern Ireland, where the state is responsible for 77.6% of spending, despite the supposed resurgence of the economy after the end of the Troubles."
Taken fromScot Gov:via treasury
The public sector accounts for 23.5 per cent employment in Scotland.
From above link for England:
In the southeast, it has gone up from 33% to 36% of the economy in four years.
Someone is telling porkies somewhere as any reporting in the media I have heard or read has implied that we are cushioned slightly by our high employment in the public sector, or do they just get paid a lot less?
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Neil - do tell, what has Christine Grahame done to improve your (very low) opinion of her?
Any referendum called by Holyrood is not legally binding incidentally. Westminster would have no obligation to act ... but can you imagine the furore if they didn't?! International institutions would be getting involved and 'rump' Britain could be the new Serbia!
Tory strategists would kill Cameron if he didn't let Scotland go - how would Labour do without c40 additional traditionally safe seats ... in that sense I think the Tories would be more likely to let an independence vote stand, as they would have absolutely nothing to lose (but Labour would).
I know I say this a lot, but the Tories won the last general election in England (in terms of the popular vote): despite their then leader and despite their then platform. Think how hard it would be for a Tory leader to lose power in England (or even just Great Britain minus Scotland)!
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/7850052.stm
Exclusive: MSP Christine Grahame wins Neil Small's (fleeting) approval! ;-)
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I normally agree with Neil about Christine Grahame - as I do again.
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I believe under international law there is some protection offered to any country which declares a UDI. I don't think Westminster would ignore it. How could they possibly hope to retain an iota of international credibility and yet treat Scotland in such a way. But if they do then there'll be hell to pay and rightly so.
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Bluelaw
exactly
The United Nations Charter (you know, the legal document that Israel ignores) confers the inalienable right of self-determination to any body of people.
The opinion of the people of England on Scottish independence may be intersting but has no relevance to any decision which willbe taken Voters in Scotland alone.
The stupidity of Labour never fails to surprise me. Everything they do and every utterance they make plays into the hands of the SNP.
The SNP is deterimined to bring in LIT for many good reasons, one of which is that it undercuts Labour support because it is patently fairer to the less well off.
Try as I might I cannot believe Labour will be stupid enough to go into the next Scottish Election defending the Council Tax and opposing LIT.
Hope they do, however.
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#219 sneckedagain
It certainly is a well known bit of the charter so that ought to do it!
I was wondering, given the apparent rising dissent in various (growing?) populations in Europe, meaning I would assume EU reform could well be heading up the agenda, would that positively affect Scotland's transition into an independent sovereign state as member of the EU, in that there could be scope for change from which we could directly benefit, within the associated negotiations? (If you know what I mean!)
I approach this from the standpoint that the players in international relations are the sovereign states.
I assume the SNP has already considered this. Thanks.
:-)
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Snecked,
Aye, but that was blatantly ignored when 2/3 of the residents of Palestine rejected partition in 1947, and despite that rejection, it was imposedover the will of the local majority....(scroll up from where the link delivers you.)So much for indigenous rights (and "impartiality"?)
;-((
ed
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#222. Anglophone
Sorry, no coconut.
Yes, it sounds like "The narrative of the new political era". Unfortunately Nick is away training and this is Brian's blog.
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#222 Anglophone
Calm down, old bean. They'll be saying you've gone barking mad. Stiff upper lip. Don't let them see that you're losing it, even if you are.
Hum after me: there'll always be an England . . .
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#222 Anglophone
The strain of the UK economy falling off a cliff and the UK state falling apart is taking its toll, I see.
There were bound to be mental casualties among the southern Britons. How sad.
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#222 Anglophone
Graffiti artist at work. It'll be Vandals, Goths and Visigoths next.
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#222 Anglophone
Thank you for the illustration of Anglophone discourse as practised south of Hadrian's Wall. It appears to be much as was suspected.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
For what it's worth the latest ComRes poll has an even more derisory number of Scots polled than usual - 80.
SNP - 32% : Lab 28% : Con - 21% : LD - 15% : Others - 3%
Utterly meaningless, of course, with such tiny numbers.
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#224 Anglosaxophone
As a mother, I am less than impressed with your parenting skills Anglosaxophone! Your Anglophone seems desperate for attention.
Earlier I spoke to him as though he were a puppie, but it it was either deemed offensive or my canine terms had a double meaning, and I was 'moderated'! Sorry moderators.
Anyway, my point. Could you allow Anglophone to answer the question, is he feeling low about the possible break up of the Union and one of its possible causes, the dire straits which the British economy is in? (It might do him some good to vent his views.)
You do not have cause for worry, although, clearly he might.
Thank you.
:-)
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#220
I do know what you mean, but first we have to achieve a sustainable majority in Scotland for constitutional change (that does not include mere tinkering with the present devolution settlement) before we contemplate what developments elsewhere may mean to us.
I suspect the EU provides the stable vehicle inside which significant constitutional changes across Europe can peacefully proceed and the SNP's support for the EU has been a far-sighted one.
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Anglosaxaphone?
That was what the late Oliver Brown called the BBC. How right he was.
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#231 sneckedagain
Thanks. I'll go with that.
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#230 aye_write
What can I say? 'Sorry' would probably be a good idea. Something just seems to have snapped. Ping!
Venting his views is something he's already tried, but that didn't seem to work out too well. Why he's moved on to the howling and barking I'm not too sure. Something about the country going to the dogs, perhaps.
#232 sneckedagain
Rumbled. A great man. I can still see the word on the page of the Scots Independent. He was indeed right, as you say.
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#234 Anglosaxophone
Well, you tell him to go for a hoiday in Scotland. There are sticks and beaches and he can run his little legs off!
;-) Do him good I'd say.
I hope he remembers how to write and how to post and does it again one day.
(Or writes a book :-)
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You all having fun?
Well don't think I have said this yet so happy new year to fellow commentors(?) and Brian.
and =191
oldnat you play nice on Nick's blogs. I have a tendancy to read them and well the comments that follow are terribly dull when put against those found here, it not really worth the effort.
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Re my #195, I was expecting Disgusted of Daventry and Dimwitted of Dymchurch but not . . . Discombobulated of Barking! Or was it the Isle of Dogs?
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Ahhh, those whom the gods would destroy they first remove their sense of self awareness.
Having given up actually contributing anything sensible to these blogs...gone away...and come back...what did I find? The same, oh...roughly a dozen people banging away at the same old themes. Anyone who may have articulated a coherent counterpoint has long since given up and gone on to other things to leave this dialogue of the deaf to the few remaining regulars.
Just a scan through this blog shows a discourse on the "face on Euro notes"...err get it right guys...there are no recognisable national symbols on euro notes, only on the coins. Better get that straightened out before agreeing to join. Bluelaw, the Surrey Jacobite is advocating UDI (are you sure he doesn't work for MI5?) thus probably equating Scotland with errrrr Rhodesia. It's just the same old stuff going round and round on an eternal loop. Scots are noted inventors but this blog seems to have cracked perpetual motion...perhaps it would interest Wee Alec as an endless supply of green energy.
But perhaps saddest of all is the fact that nobody (except perhaps the charming and perceptive Aye-Write) realised that you were having your legs pulled. The lone dogs barking aimlessly and endlessly in the dark...just think about it for minute then look deep into your own hearts.
Work on self-knowledge and a sense of humour...both will be important in an independent Scotland!
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What an irascible response you have visited upon us. Oh dear, the teasing has got to you. One shouldn't, really, but it is hard not to tease the English. If it is stinging you, ignore it.
Of course one realized that your #222 was a leg-pull, old chap, as were responses to it, although you either fail to see that or choose to ignore it for the purpose of your travesty of a thesis, which does not stand up to examination, of course.
Whereas there may be no such requirement elsewhere in the anglophone realm, a certain level of articulacy, coherence and decorum appears to be preferred here, but I for one am sorry that your moronic #222 has been removed, as you had clearly shot yourself in the foot, which, underneath all of the patronizing guff that constitutes the content of your #238, you seem to realize really.
Anyway, aye_write seems to love you. So you can't be all bad. On second thoughts, it may be that she is out to remedy deficiencies in your potty training. Or maybe just hoping to train you to be less potty? Whatever, she'll probably tell us herself.
The Scottish perspective as represented here and which you have seen fit to traduce is clearly getting up your nose. Fine. Lighten up, old boy. Remember, even after independence . . . there'll always be an England . . .
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#238 Anglophone,
"Having given up actually contributing anything sensible to these blogs..."
Oh, sorry, I hadn't realised you'd even started. ;)
"But perhaps saddest of all is the fact that nobody (except perhaps the charming and perceptive Aye-Write) realised that you were having your legs pulled. The lone dogs barking aimlessly and endlessly in the dark...just think about it for minute then look deep into your own hearts."
Bit of an assumption, old chap. Actually, these blogs do serve a purpose, at least for me. They have made me think, they have made me look deep into my own heart. It is because of this (well, partly- I don't only follow blogs you know) that I have decided that I need to stop being a passive member of our society and find ways to become an active member committed to creating an independent Scotland and a better life for all her citizens.
For your part in that, I thank you.
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239 Brigodeejohn
errr I think that you should read through your posts before pressing the button. "A level of articulacy, coherence and decorum appears to be preferred here"...followed by an accusation of being "moronic" in the next sentence!
I suspected that my little skit would get pulled as soon as one of the commissars got to read it and complain. Was it you? You seem to adopt one of the stalker pseudonyms on this blog used to attack non-nationalists. You're not Greetings Aliens/Frankly Francophone/Anglo-Saxophone because he/she writes better than you. I'll work it out later.
Keep going on the self-knowledge and, in the meantime you're right... "There'll always be an England" which I have long suspected is what's really getting up the nose of your ilk.
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240 Richard the Thingy
You mean actually going out there and becoming a political activist rather than shouting naughty words from the darkness? That's scary...you'll have to use your own name for starters.
Good for you, I applaud your conviction. Why not take Bluelaw out canvassing with you? That should raise the temperature... he's on a mission to raise the Clans from the safety of his armchair.
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#239
I will tell you all why I 'love' old Anglophone, as I'm sure you don't want to know.
I'll wait and see what he's got to say first!
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#243 aye_write
You are right to wait a while. There is a lot that he wants to get off his chest today. He is in a really really foul mood.
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#242 Anglophone,
Richard is my real name. What's yours?
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#246 Rick the Rogue
Mr. Anglophone of course ;-)
#244
Give up...you're trying to badmouth me across two blogs with the online equivalent of "look everybody it's that nasty man again!"
I've been enjoying the McGonnagel fest overleaf and I'm in a perfectly sweet mood. Back to work!
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#244 Anglosaxophone
My response to that is * it, I am honest.
(I'm not scared to be.)
It doesn't matter.
Well, would you let me know when you would like my brief summary (as it's not going to make him feel worse.....?)!
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#238 Anglophone
".perhaps it would interest Wee Alec as an endless supply of green energy."
Are you offering yet still more free hot air?
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#244 Anglosaxophone
(Lost.) Well, my response is 'something something'.
I am honest. (I am not scared to be.)
It doesn't matter.
Well would you like to let me know when it is ok to share my brief summary (it can't make A feel any worse then can it)?
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#244 Anglophone
Whatever happened to sense of humour and self-awareness? You are beyond reproach?
#247 aye_write
I think you are safe enough. I seem to be the one who is in his sights at the moment. He will probably welcome you with open arms to show what a decent chap he is after all. Any time you like.
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re my #243
Let me clarify, I do not seek to increase my maximum required number of husbands to more than one, nor do I do male trade ins.
I do realise Anglophone is bound to be old enough to be my father, Grandad etc.! None of that is my concern.
Right, (I am sorry about this)
he puts me in a good mood!
He is entertaining!
Of course it was b. obvious he was trying to get a rise (people saw but just didn't appreciate it), it couldn't not be.
He is at once harmless and very, very clever. He is talking to himself for goodness' sake! (I think that's great :-)
Like a big silly soft dog having a bark - you just clap it. Or grab a stick and play. With his intellect, he needs it. Well, I'm honoured.
Rather the opposite, more than anything I was taken by the style of his posts. He was amusing himself winding everybody up. How he can make them dance! But he was true, to have a mission. But he wasn't being mean. His aim was to play with the ridiculous, while laying bare the obvious as he sees it. To me that's actually kind of him.
I don't think he's interested in pandering to the insignificance of society - he's out to challenge it! I like the other level he's on. It's a relief. I'd scoop him up and others like him and put them in a little collection, so rare are they.
It seems to me that, in his view, he has inhabited the asylum where the lunatics are in charge for a long, long time! You have to feel then, not add to the burden. He is a minx.
But added to this he is of course flawed. He does not see me. How can he not and be so clever? And that makes him eminently likeable.
And behind it all is a slick-sharp brain, that I can only admire.
And very, very funny!
Then, the combination is the intriguing thing.
(With me being no match for his mind, I'm sorry folks, I am just a sucker for it!
Carry on Anglophone :-)
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re my #251 above
And he'll probably come back with something like
"Thanks. He denies it all!".......
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#252 aye_write
Last word.
re my dire show on the next thread, this is all too star-crossed!
Might as well fall out with Anglophone and be done with it.
Looser.
:-\
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#251 Aye-Write
Phew...thanks very much. I too wish to restrict myself to one Mrs Anglophone.
Very kind words. I think that you've probably got my motives pretty much nailed and, as such, are much more perceptive than you give yourself credit for.
Now...will someone throw a stick for heavens sake!
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#254. Anglophone
"I too wish to restrict myself to one Mrs Anglophone."
I knew that :-)
-----------
"Fetch!"
:-)
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#255 and others
aye_write
Clever. You are a bridge builder. Neat. How are you getting on with the horse's ass on the NR blog, by the way?
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#256 Al_Ford
Hi Al,
Well, thanks. I've bantered with Anglophone before and I can't help but like him a lot (in case you hadn't guessed!). He rates as my all time top blogger. He already knew that. I'd listen to him all day... I have a question for him, if or when he ever returns though ;-)
NR's bloggers are playing second fiddle to my kitchen floor I'm afraid, but I have had a revelation moment which I am hoping to share with them after my housework is done. It's quite brief actually. I really do feel quite sorry for Fuber. And the others are nice chaps. We'll get there. :-)
I might, stress might strike it up with Susan if the above all goes well!!
I am big-headed enough to try at least. See you there? ;-)
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#257 aye_write
Good luck with your next charm offensive in the NR blog. If anyone can wipe the floor with them, it will be you. I'll see you in there some time. Will look forward to it.
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Perhaps someone should take a BBC to the BBC...
Since the Corporation doesn't have its demons to seek, the Bell, Book and Candle approach might be well-utilised in clearing the air of ill winds doing no-one any good...
... least of all the poor licence-fee payers!
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#241 Anglophone
A predictably provocative response from you. More 'teasing of the Scottie' in the time-honoured Anglo-supremacist manner? If I don't take the bait, will you be very disappointed? No, you will probably say I have taken it, anyway.
Four scraps for you, nonetheless:
1. It happens that I have not complained to a BBC moderator about anything at any time; nor do I expect to do so; why it might be thought that the contrary would be likely to be the case is not apparent;
2. It is noticeable that you are employing the word "stalker" when you are challenged. I draw no conclusions from this but mention it only to help you with your own "self-knowledge". Have you considered therapy?
3. I am genuinely indifferent to England, old boy; not really my cup of tea. If it sank into the sea tomorrow, I would be devastated, of course, as it might take a bit of Scotland with it. Only teasing.
4. If England would be content to be just England, within its own borders, and leave Scotland to the Scots, even if only within a federal or confederal UK, it would risk finding itself enthusiastically admired and esteemed here. Otherwise there would appear to be not much chance of that. Do you recall De Valera's radio address in which he accounted for Irish neutrality during World War II? Why should Ireland risk its own survival to save England from German occupation, given that six counties of Ireland were under English occupation? Whether you or I agree or disagree with his statement of the facts or his manner of expressing them, this is essentially how he represented them to be. I cite this not to draw a close comparison between Ireland and Scotland but to indicate how national attitudes towards another country can be determined, even crucially, more by what that country does than by any other consideration.
Take any of this at face value and you will have swallowed the bait. (Only teasing.) If you are running true to form, you will probably be drawing out your now-familiar list of non-unionist posters whom you apparently wish to neutralize and whom you would no doubt like the world to believe to be stalking you, as if you were worth the trouble . . .
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259 Brigodeejohn
I remain obstinately sane and see no point staying up after midnight venting my spleen on a stranger. The stalker bit comes from the the strange way in which all pro-Union posters end up with someone using a similar moniker and carrying out a good old-fashioned "monstering" of said poster whenever they have point to make. It's a political trick as old as time...the paid heckler. Did you really invent "Brigodeejohn" up out of the blue or are you after someone else who used to post regularly on these blogs?
I have smoked you out as an ABE (anything but England) falling in the right wing of my classification of Scottish Nationalists...who knows, maybe the time will come when you can take part in your very own Kristalnicht. Patience brothers...our time will come!
This was confirmed by your admiration for and quotation of de Valera. Taken at face value he had a point...although he overlooked the role of the many thousands of Irishmen who fought to protect these islands against the Nazis. Tellingly however you glossed over the bit when de Valera personally presented his condolences to the German Embassy in Dublin on hearing of the death of Hitler. I think he may have shown his colours at that point don't you?
PS: I have never in my entire life met an Englishman who said either "pip pip" or "old bean", any more than I have heard a Scot say "Och Aye the Noo" or "Crivens ma wallet!" Pack it...it just makes you look immature.
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Are we all feeling suitably crushed and humiliated following yesterday's visitation by the Anglo-supremacist who admits to submitting calculatedly offensive posts to the BT blog with a view to baiting the Scots. We have received yet another little lesson in what you get if you step out of line and oppose the constitutional status quo and the balance of power which it serves to maintain. Those to whom that status quo accords the upper hand may be expected, of course, to smite you with that upper hand, aiming straight for your self-esteem. If that is injured, you are injured, and so is the threat that you pose to the status quo and to those to whom it accords the upper hand. What defences do we have against this?
We are to accept supinely whatever risible anti-Scottish racist invective the Anglo-supremacist chooses to throw at us on the ground that to argue against it is to show that we take ourselves too seriously, and that, because we indicate that, not unnaturally, we do not share his blinkered Scotophobic view of us, we must accept that we lack "self-awareness". To fail to do as he says and accept that we lack self-awareness is to prove to his satisfaction that we do indeed lack self-awareness. Every move that we make to defend ourselves against the charges laid against us serves as proof of their validity, in other words, according to our accuser. Catch 22.
In subjecting us to racist abuse, he claims to be helpfully seeking to further our enlightenment, because, as Scots, we plainly must be assumed to be unenlightened by virtue of deviating from the received wisdom propagated by the Anglo-supremacist Establishment. Scottish nationality itself, according to what we may learn from a perusal of the totality of his various submissions over the past number of months, is by virtue of its very existence narrow-minded and anti-English and, therefore, racist. The racist Scotophobe justifies his racism to himself by claiming that he is opposing racism while all the time hurling abuse, in the time-honoured Anglo-supremacist style, at a disadvantaged minority whose interests do not coincide in all respects with those of the dominant majority which he represents.
As soon as all of this is put to him, of course, he shifts his ground to maintain that it is only Scottish "nationalism" that he derides, in fact, which is, according to his definition of the concept, a bad, wicked and evil thing which will inevitably bring about the end of civilisation as we know it if allowed to run its course: "See the bad men and women there!" The fact that the independence movement in Scotland has essentially a supranational ethos, as can easily be demonstrated, cuts no ice with him, as he is not here to argue a case. As rational argument builds support for the independence movement, it is rational argument itself which is his target as much as the self-esteem of those who argue rationally. (See, e.g., references to his #222 in the Wickedness thread.) Hence tediously predictable abuse of those who presume to stand up for the rights of their country and hence the tediously predictable attacks on national self-respect with a view to preventing the argument for independence from even being considered.
That is why the substantial quantity of reasoned advocacy of Scottish independence is typically simply brushed aside by posters of this type. The Scots are deprived of national self-respect, and advocates of independence are defined as unworthy of attention to justify the disregarding of their case, as there is no soundly persuasive answer to it.
If Anglo-supremacist defenders of the inequitable British Union were themselves persuaded that they have a convincing case, resting upon something other than vested interest, they would not need to seek to prevent the case for independence from being discussed or to misrepresent it when it is discussed. Their answer to all of this, of course, may be expected to be to deride the contention as another case of the "parochial", "provincial" Scots/"nationalists" taking themselves too seriously, and another bout of culture-bashing ensues. Denigration and disparagement of other minorities is now taboo, but the Scots are still fair game in the UK, evidently. Standard Anglo-supremacist response to this: "Only joking. Can't you irascible johnnies take a joke? If you don't like it, don't rise to the bait!" And so it goes on, unless it is resisted, which, of course, only makes it worse until the resistance to it ends it.
So what are the defences against this sort of thing? To engage in debate with someone who has no intention of taking you seriously would seem, at least on the face of it, to be a futile exercise, unless you take the view that his approach is essentially counter-productive and that in engaging him in debate you may maximise that counter-productivity and thus further the cause to which he is opposed. Exposure to racist ridicule does not suit everyone, however, and so some may be better advised simply to ignore him.
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#262 Anglosaxophone
If I may be so meek as to squeak, "Here's an opinion"...
"We are to accept supinely whatever risible anti-Scottish racist invective the Anglo-supremacist chooses to throw at us on the ground that to argue against it is to show that we take ourselves too seriously, and that, because we indicate that, not unnaturally, we do not share his blinkered Scotophobic view of us, we must accept that we lack "self-awareness". To fail to do as he says and accept that we lack self-awareness is to prove to his satisfaction that we do indeed lack self-awareness. Every move that we make to defend ourselves against the charges laid against us serves as proof of their validity, in other words, according to our accuser. Catch 22."
No, you need not address his shot at your lack of self awareness. Answer as you wish not as he wishes. You assume predictable responses. Is the world so beyond such control?
"The racist Scotophobe justifies his racism to himself by claiming that he is opposing racism while all the time hurling abuse, in the time-honoured Anglo-supremacist style, at a disadvantaged minority whose interests do not coincide in all respects with those of the dominant majority which he represents.
As soon as all of this is put to him, of course, he shifts his ground to maintain that it is only Scottish "nationalism" that he derides, in fact, which is, according to his definition of the concept, a bad, wicked and evil thing which will inevitably bring about the end of civilisation as we know it if allowed to run its course: "See the bad men and women there!""
Did you shift subjects there? (Scotophobe to Anglosupremasist)
"So what are the defences against this sort of thing? To engage in debate with someone who has no intention of taking you seriously would seem, at least on the face of it, to be a futile exercise, unless you take the view that his approach is essentially counter-productive and that in engaging him in debate you may maximise that counter-productivity and thus further the cause to which he is opposed. Exposure to racist ridicule does not suit everyone, however, and so some may be better advised simply to ignore him."
The answer is to look behind all of that of which you speak and do not permit your eyes to be so covered by it. Then a better type of conversation can begin? (Jump over it, assume it to be understood. As you intimate, it cannot be changed, so let it, why disturb it in the first place.)
Note - practise reponse mark 1.
PS Can I get my marks back.
Thanks.
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Do you think you could limit yourself to just one login, purple prose guy? It's rude to wield so many puppets.
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#263 aye_write
I admire your optimism, which once upon a time I shared when young and idealistic. Now I am just idealistic, but years among post-imperial Anglo-supremacist disdainers of the subject peoples of various types long ago caused me to conclude that it is a waste of time to plead with them to see reason. They were not interested then, although there was the odd exception, up to a point. They are not interested now, although there may be a few more exceptions up to a point.
It is in the nature of the animal in question to impose its will by weight of numbers and accumulated and consolidated power in so far as it can manage to get away with it. It has a long history of that. It will even admit that itself upon occasion. It needs to be pushed into making concessions and shoved into accepting that times have changed.
I realise, of course, that you are engaged upon an interesting exercise in the NR blog and mean no criticism of that. By all means engage with them, but don't expect too much. I would like nothing better than to find that my analysis does not now apply. I am not holding my breath, however.
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All,
It worked! Soon the post was marked as "referred to the moderators" and everything ceased being bold! Whoopeee!I discovered a way to undo the emboldening of some threads (actually worked on the "Gaza" thread).
I simply complained about my own comment, to wit:
After a while, I received another emailAnd everything is back to bold
Dearie me, what's a body to do?
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#265 Anglosaxophone
I see. Well then I misunderstood the question. I thought it was a case of avoiding letting them (your characters) get to you (your reader), or getting you down or otherwise. It was not, it was how to get them to change their minds. Your question however misleads me - two characters represent the whole cast. I did not assume it (a sufferer of 'too logical').
Well, silly, that won't be done! There is no mediation to be achieved here, because the dynamic is about groups not singulars, and groups are by nature all the more stubborn to persuade, steer or suppose, are they not? And if they are, they are fickle? Optimism, yes, may be applied to ones (Fuber or Carrots?), but it would take time. The same 'time' in its nature cannot be applied to groups when being dealt with at once.
Some mechanisms can work, but they need a friend, so blowing in the wind - luck or chance. And even then at best they afford only a partial degree of manoeuvrability through it's capability to be orchestrated. It is this limited skill, even if utilised to the maximum availabile, that some leaders would confuse with a skill that is entirely owned, their own.
The skill is in therefore recognising the occassion where fate has dealt an advantagious scene, where the winds of change are already blowing in your direction, and jumping on board. Not falling off is the challenge, as perhaps the winds then go unnoticed, but a fool who believes he or she is due credit for both is bound to have a lesson taught than to preach one. This is where I think the majority of our leaders get it wrong - it is like Frogger.
You must have already thought of this, for I have and remember clearly so doing. If not, your ego is smaller than mine.
(A blurb. I cannot be bothered re-checking.)
PS You are rather the most fabulous person so far I have never met (do not die).
Don't worry, I assume all this from the position of a happy fool. ;-)
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#266. Ed Iglehart
Would pressure numbers help? or would it slow this blog from a slog to a drip!
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#265 Anglosaxophone
Evening Anglo(saxo)phone,
I have decided to append my recent response with one I have thought through :-)
You seem resigned, if reluctantly, hopefully and temporarily to the situation that Scots nationalists and anglo supremists (your nice words ;-) will not, and so in effect, cannot see eye to eye.
I can only imagine this is unpleasant for you? Sometimes I think how forlorne is an intelligent person disappointed by his peers. I know at times that is a harsh lonliness. Can I say, I at least, can see this.
Sorry about my earlier post. I do indeed 'get' where you are coming from, and where you have been over this. It is in an instant why you are likeable.
"I admire your optimism..."
Ah, what kind, wise people say to fools...!
I am not basking in some glamour over there on Nick's blog, I know not of what I do, just that I do it. I have some brief grasp of consequences but then it's not really an ambition. I learn, they learn.
"....which once upon a time I shared when young and idealistic. Now I am just idealistic, but years...."
A story I could hear for hours, music.
You say your are idealistic. Then I, rather, admire you. I know this usually brings grief!
I think I know what you are saying. I'm not sure what you want as a result. That both sides work together and avoid the breakup of the Union?
As I said before, it is not an inpirational leader, but the inspiration of that leader, to recognise that the bringing together of those groups cannot, for reasons that you have explained, be achieved without the aid of circumstances that are considerably favourable. I see though a set of circumstances that considerably favour the opposite stand as things are looking at the moment.
Am I bugging you yet? I am bound to disappoint you - that is part of the agony in it.
"...among post-imperial Anglo-supremacist disdainers of the subject peoples of various types long ago caused me to conclude that it is a waste of time to plead with them to see reason. They were not interested then, although there was the odd exception, up to a point. They are not interested now, although there may be a few more exceptions up to a point."
Anglophone, you speak the truth.
"It is in the nature of the animal in question to impose its will by weight of numbers and accumulated and consolidated power in so far as it can manage to get away with it. It has a long history of that. It will even admit that itself upon occasion. It needs to be pushed into making concessions and shoved into accepting that times have changed."
That quite strikes as a pose for the arrival of force, and not fostering an ideal of friendship.
"I realise, of course, that you are engaged upon an interesting exercise in the NR blog and mean no criticism of that. By all means engage with them, but don't expect too much. I would like nothing better than to find that my analysis does not now apply. I am not holding my breath, however."
Are you looking out for me? (Thank you.)
Friendship makes people happy. By honourable extension, friendship between nations sharing a constitution should bestow a happiness? Would a friendship between two people on the opposite sides not do? Why worry about all those other people you don't know? They are always doomed to fate you if you seek to rely on them to deliver something.
Those are my thoughts anyway.
Good wishes and good night.
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Off topic for a bit.
Some US functionary at the US Treasury or something recently pointed out that UK would have been broke years ago without Scottish Oil but I've lost the reference.
I'm writing up a piece on this subject. Does anybody remember who it was?
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#265 Anglosaxophone
"I would like nothing better than to find that my analysis does not now apply. I am not holding my breath, however."
Anglophone, you soppy big heart :-) :-)
Perhaps I should explain. You're position seems to be one of lost faith. Mine, in contrast is one where I had no faith to begin with. Wait, I do not think what you once placed faith in is impossible - of course not. And if it comes around, great. If I ever had a hand in bringing it round, better.
I will still try for what I believe. If I fail, which I admit looks probable (not that that would in any way change or define me), I am no worse off. If I succeed, well... It's a win-win situation.
Now I have never tested this theory. Perhaps you would do me the honour of replying so I can know better what it is, and that you have not been rounded up by 'nationalist supremists' (or whatever!) and shot.
Thanks.
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Anglosaxophone
Glad to see that you have remained calm and measured;-)
In the past I have submitted some well reasoned arguments in favour of the union and suggested that Scotland does benefit in many ways (though not in every way of course!) The response has either been dimissive, abusive or seemingly pitched into a deep dark hole. The latter lead me to realise that some people can debate, some can rant and the rest have absorbed too much of their own brand of racism through mother's knee to even realise that there may be another point of view.
Because all these blogs end the same way it in the end becomes much more fun to simply wind people like you up. Look back through this thread...and indeed the one about Gaza (still waiting for your thoughts on the Middle East by the way) and you will notice that you were the one that went on the offensive? Why don't you leave me alone and go back to using one of your other names.
Woof!
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#272 Anglophone
Look 'woof',
I am wasting my time?
You don't do any 'friendly acquaintance'?
OK. Accepted.
(Am I the more mature?)
You have been badgered and who would like that.
Keep your secrets - it's your want (I should not have pestered you for them).
I will wish you good luck - maybe you will never need it.
It is going to be stormy here tonight, which is good as it matches my mood.
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#271 Aye-Write
Not sure whether you're talking about me or my (almost) synomynous stalker. The accusation of being a "supremacist" had me rolling because, just as Patriotism was once described as the "last refuge of the scoundrel", accusations of facism or racism tend to be the refuge of those spouters of kistch left-wing drivel once the argument starts to go against them.
I remain at heart mostly liberal in outlook and have not yet succumbed to a tartan death squad led by a sinister looking individual bearing a name curiously like my own. Best double lock the doors tonight just the same.
Yours unreconstructedly etc etc.
PS: I have nothing against a genuinely expressed desire for self-determination. It's just the array of people who are, at heart obsessed with other issues (e.g. EU federalism, historical grievances real and imagined, "old" socialists, isolationist fantasists etc) who jump onto the "nationalist" coat-tail who irk me somewhat. These people should be pointed out and lampooned for what they are so that the real argument can be laid bare for the real people to decide. Serious bit ends
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Anyone
What is the "NR Blog" that I'm supposed to be terrorising? I only ever blog here or just occasionally on the main editors blog. The latest is a hilarious discussion on the classification of cannabis.
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#274 Anglophone
"#271 Aye-Write
Not sure whether you're talking about me or my (almost) synomynous stalker.
You and you.
Games last for a finite length of time for a reason...for me anyway.
The accusation of being a "supremacist"..."
You know I didn't do any such accusing? Oh, well. What's happened to you man???
:-(
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@@Aye-Write
I'm not accusing you of anything and absolutely no offence intended. Your last post (cue bugle) seemed to be mixed up replying to @Anglosaxophone...he was the one doing the Anglosupremacy bit i.e. descending to accusations of facism...meaning me. Does this make sense?
I could hardly be rude to you...not after such kind words before
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#277 Anglophone
Hmm, so easy.
Have I to Angledangle now?
(Yes, it makes sense - it's a real answer. I hadn't accepted I had still to keep with the Anglopseudonyms along with the class. Add age-long moderation and arrive at my error...)
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Apologia pro Vita Sua, by FF
Wandering lonely as a cloud "that floats on high o'er vales and hills", while scanning the blogs aimlessly for food for thought, I noticed a disturbance in a backwater, where, of all things, my poor little nom de plume was being contended over and taken in vain (at #241 and elsewhere), among others. Extraordinary, but then little should surprise one in a virtual environment. It is not as if it is the real world. We are disembodied souls here, wandering at large upon a landscape which is precisely what we choose to make of it. And what happens? A falling out. Extraordinary.
The following short reflection is offered out of the goodness of my heart, for it is a good heart. I know, for I have taken a very close look at it, and so can vouch for it. It means no harm. This is not to say that it is entirely harmless, of course. An automobile is harmless to you so long as you do not insist on lying down in front of it while it is moving forward.
In communicating in one of the languages in which the bilingual has about as much fluency as anyone can reasonably expect to have in any language, he is, naturally, expressing not only thoughts that have been conjured up in that language but thoughts which derive from about as much reflection in the other one that he has at his disposal in more or less equal measure. Thus his words pass through a mirror, as it were, to allow them to emerge on the other side. (For further illumination and, indeed, reflection, on this subject see Le Langage et son double [Language and Its Shadow] by Julien Green, Paris, 1985.) While expressing myself in English, therefore, it is worth identifying myself as, frankly, francophone. Hence my blog name here in the anglophone bogosphere; sorry, blogosphere. In the francophone one I do indeed go by another name, as to identify myself as francophone there would seem to be as presumptuously egotistical as to identify oneself as anglophone here. No offence intended, I think.
One would have thought that there would be room in the anglophone end of the tower of Babel for all, although it is evidently booming with incomprehension and intolerance. Anyway, I am not going away. I can put up with eccentric egocentric anglocentrics, although not without difficulty on occasion. An alternative to the anglocentric perspective, of which, of course, I am, fortunately, not the only purveyor here, may be what at least some anglo-unionists do not wish to see in the BT blog, but that is just too bad.
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#279 frankly_francophone
"booming with incomprehension and intolerance"
Do you think so frankly? It's like this as I see it (he started it this time, Anglophone :-)
Anglophone knows what though he tries, he cannot deny. He knows that he knows that it does not seem 'correct'. He 'wanders lonely as a cloud' and sulks until someone proves him wrong, and justifies his own misery when they invariably do not.
But what torture is it? Why should he be allowed to feel upset when it is not better than it is. What spoilt folly is this? Is his better way really better, or an unachievable, a reason for inaction, a substitute for accepting? Did he not know things were the way they were when he began his pine? Is he the one to change everything, so doomed to failure? Or is it everyone else's fault for letting him down?
But is that really all there is, or is there also hope? Is the assumption of none the ultimate obstacle, unobserved while occupied in its execution? I would have to say so because every action has an equal and opposite reaction. And so the opposite is true, and the calm be restored. Stop trying to unhinder it by hindering it in such efforts to unhinder. For they and none are necessary. What work to keep idle hands busy. What silly energy.
Come Anglophone, sit with me. You will see there is a good view. I can feel empathy for you but it will do you no good. You must be the one to not need it. I already know you know already. So come on, stop.
This drivel I hope will prove nothing, except that Anglophone wants no company with anyone (on this blog). He'd rather be alone, even though it is more strenuous.
OK, if he does not want to respond, then do not respond. If he does then please that he would, as honest as himself - or not at all. No riddles, tricks or games, (granted that's rich coming from this post), for I have played and seen them all before.
Will I have to play Anglowait? (Anglosaxophone is barred.) If it is not interesting, say "go away" and go away I will.
(In other words, I thought it might have been good to have just one ordinary conversation. I'd have liked that. But if you don't then I will take the hint...)
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Frank, I see you are indeed a cunning linguist.
;-)
ed
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#277 Anglophone
One last thing I suppose Anglophone, you can at least be flattered that everyone has bothered so much to take an interest in you by all sending replies!
Have a cool day :-)
a_w
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From Anglophone:
aye_write is such a lightweight.
Blubber, blah, blah, blabber. Doesn't she get it, I'm not interested! I'd be less bored talking to a brick wall. Her analyses are so patheitc, it makes me cringe. Like a stain on my screen, she spills yet another 'sticky' post which proves she could not be wise even if she was carved out in stone as a philosopher statue.
'Why, oh why, oh why Anglophone?' it drones. Why should I humour "low life, low stlye" with my hard won knowledge. I wasn't born so that she could leech off me. I do not waste my time with those with whom to spend it would be a waste.
She proffesses to like me (eurrr) yet she pesters me like this. Where is my fly spray. I have cryptic prose to write. Doesn't she know that's how to communicate, not this so called human interaction she seems to lap up. Well, no wonder I am inclined to avoid it if that's what it turns you into.
Go away aye_write. I don't like you!
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