'You've all done very well'
Can't help feeling a little like Young Mr Grace today?
You remember, the elderly chap in the sitcom who tottered onto the shop floor to mumble: "You've all done very well."
Now, just stop right there - before you take the comparison too far. I meant that I am with Mr G in distributing general praise.
For they did indeed all do rather well, our MSPs. In questioning the first minister, that is.
Substantive topics, diligently pursued. Plus, of course, substantive replies from the FM. And a toothsome dose of partisan politics too.
Labour's Iain Gray set out after the FM over the decision to extend Scotrail's franchise - or, more accurately, the procedure followed (or absence thereof.)
He was on secure ground given that question marks have been raised in an Audit Scotland report.
Due proceedure
Mr Salmond fought back, noting that the prospect of an extension had been set out six years ago - by one Iain Gray.
Nothing daunted, Mr Gray replied that he had followed due procedure at the time, consulting widely.
It was a sharp exchange, well argued on both sides with Mr Salmond pointing out the advantages for passengers.
If anything, I thought Mr Gray was a fraction weaker in attempting to broaden his attack to suggest that the Salmond administration had a general disregard for the rules.
I get the concept: it's a point Labour has tried to advance previously.
Didn't really work, then. And didn't really work today. But persistence is a political virtue.
Constant endeavour
For the Tories, Annabel Goldie interrogated the FM over hospital acquired infections - and drew a hit with the suggestion that a scheme being piloted in Aberdeen may be deployed more generally.
Tavish Scott was back with HBOS - a topic he has made his own by constant endeavour.
Again, there was real substance here: a disclosure that the Scottish Government has written to the Competition Appeal Tribunal on the matter detailing Ministerial and Holyrood views.
Then a discussion about Herald job losses (to whom, sympathy), about education, about the use of DNA in criminal investigations. All substantive, all valid. I say again: well done.
I'm 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~35~RS~)
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Hmmm. I have just had a wee look at FMQ on the iPlayer and I was immediately struck by the similarities between Iain Gray and Private Pike of Dad's Army. He seems like a big lost boy left out in the playground while the other weans are inside eating sweeties.
Still, as usual the questions from Iain Gray bounced back at him when the FM reminded him that it was Iain Gray himself who opined that FirstScotrail be given an extension of between two and three years. I fear however, the irony of that was wasted upon poor Pikey.
Aunty Annabel as usual was magic and actually did put Alec on the ropes with her sensible question about the measures on trial in the Aberdeen Health Services to reduce hospital acquired infections. From what I can gather there is real evidence that these measures are being very successful and Aunty was wise to suggest that they be rolled out across the country as soon as possible. Alec's reply that the Cabinet Secretary would visit next week to assess the situation was weak to say the least.
As to Tavish Scott, well I'm not sure what he is about at all. He seems to exist in some aesthetic world of his own and does not appear to have a coherant strategy. What a pity Ross Finnie did not get the leadership for despite his failings, he would have led a much more pragmatic and constructive party.
To conclude, a rather dull and uninspiring FMQ but it can't be entertaining all the time!
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Oh and I meant to say, anyone who buys a Herald now should have it stuffed down their throat. What an utter disgrace. Now our journalistic elite will see what it is really like to be on the receiving end of what the goverment refers to as being, "flexible" in the workplace.
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i feel that being leader of the labour party in the Scottish Parliament ,Mr Gray may be skating on thin ice here, when it comes to labour handing out lectures on playing by the rules .
the pot calling the kettle black me thinks.
if we were to look at the actions of all the "main " party's in the Scottish Parliament would any of them come out looking "whiter than white"?
politics is a dirty business Mr Gray need only look as far as his own constituency party to see that taking the moral high ground is not usually a good idea when you are a politician, as someone will always be prepared to pull the carpet from under you.
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Yes, but, young Mr Grace, what about the bit where the pot called the kettle black? You know, the vague suggestion of "cronyism" wafted by Mr Gray in the direction of the SNP. I nearly fell off my chair. Haven't done that since the Wendy Show was taken off the air. You have to give credit where credit is due: the leader of the Labour group takes the biscuit.
Auntie Annabel and that Lib Dem chap, on the other hand, I commend for not disturbing my posterior equilibrium and for being sensible and constructive.
I don't know what the Tanzanian High Commissioner made of it all. Actually, I would rather have appreciated it if we could have been told what he made of it all. That might have been instructive.
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What is clear from FMQs is that the parliament now has little time for Labour. Not only in opposition but also in the Holyrood dog-house. The level of disdain shown by all other MSPs, not just the SNP, towards Labour MSPs is clearly noticeable these days at FMQs.
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2. crazyislander
CrazyIslander wants the Herald shoved down the throat of its buyers. mmmmmm....
I thought the old quote was that Scotland would be free when the the last Church of Scotland Minister had been strangled with the last copy of the Sunday Post.
It had changed recently to the last Labour MSP being strangled with the last copy of the Daily Record.
Now apparently, it's the Herald and it's buyers?
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6. Times are a-changing in our printed press. From May this year:
The Sun, the Daily Mail and The Times have made impressive circulation gains in Scotland with so called "tartan editions" supported by low cover prices and giveaways such as CDs and DVDs.
Today the Sun has overtaken the once-mighty Daily Record as the biggest-selling Scottish daily newspaper, while the Daily Mail sells more every day than The Scotsman and The Herald combined.
Industry figures show that over the past 20 years, the Record has fallen by 48.6%. The Herald has dropped 46.4% while The Scotsman's sale is down 41.5%.
The Courier in Dundee has lost 41.1% while the Press and Journal remains the best performing Scottish quality daily with a drop of 26.5%.
Latest official sales figures for Scotland show that The Sun sold 399,321 against the Daily Record's 363,411.
The Herald sold 65,286 and The Scotsman 50,790, while the Scottish Daily Mail sold 126,542.
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#7 Reluctant-Expat
Source?
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Nulab are a detestable mob of gangsters led by a monotonal inarticulate idiot. Their lies and hypocrisy know no bounds.
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"If anything, I thought Mr Gray was a fraction weaker in attempting to broaden his attack to suggest that the Salmond administration had a general disregard for the rules."
Yes, I noticed that Gray's final flourish was a list of Labour led smears aimed at both the SNP and Salmond. This is the theme from Labour in Scotland, all due to the fact that they have no policies at all.
Rhona Brankin was particularly bad today, basing her questions (two of them) around supposed cuts in education budgets.
The First Minister pointed to a new report that showed such budgets had increased by an average of 5.5%. Brankin ignored the figures and launched into a tirade again focussing on these imaginary 'cuts'.
Very interesting was the suggestion by the SNP that Glasgow council are under instruction from labour to cut teacher numbers in order to sabotage the targets.
Be nice if a reporter could actually find out what the increase in the education budget for Glasgow is and why teachers posts are being cut.
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One point on the extension of Scotrail's franchise. Labour may have been in favour of it originally, but the SNP are in the driving seat.
Have they actually come and looked at what is now an appalling service?
I have the misfortune of using the East Kilbride line, but there are a few just as bad.
I spoke to a senior manager at one of their "Meet the Managers" at Central Station recently. To me it was a total waste of time. The train services at peak periods have got worse over the past 12 years, noticeably so in the past four years. But FirstGroup proudly state their OVERALL performance, which does not give a true reflection when you compare delays against passenger numbers.
Perhaps Alex or one of his ministers could take the trouble to investigate.
But if Mr Gray wants to raise the issue then he would do well to carry out some investigation as well. At least he would have some ammunition.
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#9 bluelaw
Feel better now?
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Ian Gray could do with a good manager. Maybe Brian you could get Craig Levein to help him out. If he can get Dundee United winning games, anything is possible. ( only kidding) Ian Gray should have stuck to teaching Physics if he was any good at that, 'cos politics certainly isn't his forte.
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#8 Browndov
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7403830.stm
^ believe that is where it came from, well it is, from May this year..
Found this from February when the Record was still top just from the Sun in Scotland.
http://www.business7.co.uk/business-news/breaking-business-news/2008/02/11/scottish-newspaper-readership-falls-97298-20316075/
Apologies if someone got there before.
And just on topic, Labour suggest the SNP have a disregard of 'rules', I am a labour peep but seriously that dangerous ground at the moment.
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14 DavieBob_efc_
OK, thanks. That does indeed seem to be the source.
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#13 kaybraes
Interesting idea.
Politicians could get agents, just like footballers, and they could be bought and sold in the same way.
Mind you "English gold" would probably become involved.
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I think the point about rail fares is well-made. The SNP seem to be indifferent to public transport at a time when it has never been more important.
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#16 oldnat
"Politicians could get agents, just like footballers, and they could be bought and sold in the same way."
I think you're into negative equity there.
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The electricity in my house was off today so I didn't manage to record FMQs. Given, though, your tenacious ability in the past to tell us almost every week of how well Wendy Alexander's appalling performance was -- more often than not suggesting the performance that week was her best to date -- I'll take your summary of Iain Gray's performance today with a very large pinch of salt until I get a chance to watch iPlayer.
I'm not impressed with Tavish Scott's ability so far (though he's no Wendy!) but it's good to read he's persisting on the HBOS issue. It's had appalling coverage, especially outside of Scotland, and the media (not least of all the BBC) needs a kick up the backside to lower their party colours and give the story the attention and investigation it and thousands of families who will be affected by Labour's "preferred option" they deserve.
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#19 TimothyFClarke
BBC Parliament schedule says FMQs will be on at 11:30 pm tonight.
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#19 TimothyFClarke
Us expats can only use the iPlayer for radio, but you can also get FMQs from holyrood.tv where you can watch or download - currently back to the beginning of October.
I thought both Scott and Aunty Annabel played it sensibly and got rewarded with sensible constructive responses. Gray got worse as he went on.
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The SNP "Queens Speech" broadcast
Just as irrelevant to the supposed topic as the Labour one, but at least it was positive, and attacked no one.
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oldnat, Brownedov
Thanks for the suggestions, I keep forgetting about the extra freeview channels -- I'm still finding the availability of a fifth channel a novelty (well, that's one word for it anyway)! Anyway, PVR set to record for a half hour of shouting at the telly interspersed with laughter.
Usually I find Annabel sensible but unconvincing. Any whiff of talent in the Lib Dems party seems to be whisked off to London -- a little odd for a party claiming to be strong advocates of federalism. And Iain Gray so far has made little impact and isn't being helped by the BBC's love affair with Jim Murphy.
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What do you mean well done? What are you, a headmaster? Get back to reporting the news. Politicians are there for the people who elected them not at the behest of some jumped up hack
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Bedtime Story
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#25 cynicalHighlander
Loved it.
24 KennethM
You're well out of date! Ain't no such thing as a headmaster - Head Teacher (or in some areas Rector).
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Can anyone explain to me why at FMQs, every party leader has to start by asking an inane question -
PL "What did the FM have for breakfast?"
FM "I had a satisfying Scottish breakfast."
before getting down to business?
Whatever the reason, the result is a total waste of time, and diminishes the Parliament.
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Funny how being in the same setting every time mocks the comments made, allowing their sentiments to become rather weightless - a bit like blog postings when you get the same churned-up thinking coming through after a while.
It's interesting that there seems to be a certain set of positions on here, from where the majority of viewpoints stem. Always makes me wonder: doesn't that indicate that, continually, the point is being missed?
#27 oldnat
If they're going to do that they should at least do it properly i.e. go for a great opening gag, as in Labour's case, they are introducing their stand up routine anyway.
#9 bluelaw
Agreed, there is no more detestable figure than a Labour politician (in their terminally unrefined way) passing comment on anything important - makes one ashamed, dispirited, disgusted and dismayed...
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Salmond wipes the floor with them. None of these Unionist lick-spittles can hide that fact.
Saor Alba!
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#5
I agree but then the contempt that the other MSPs hold for Labour is entirely justified when one looks at the state of the UK economy.
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greenock boy post 10 - good post as usual,we live in interesting times, now that all the journalists out there might just be wakening up to the fact that blind allegiance to your employer or indeed to a political party is not a smart move these days,just ask anyone at the herald,maybe we might find someone who feels like telling us the truth with no spin attached
what has been happening to everyone else in the private sector for years is now happening to journalism because they have completed their task and are now dispensable.
is their unquestioning faith in the Scottish labour party going to keep them in a job? not a chance, they forget ,labour never asks what it can do for you it is always what you can do for them .
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I must say that the more time I have spent over the last decade listening to debates in both Westminster and Hollyrood, the less relevance I believe they have as places for political debate and to achieve anything.
Can anyone remeber the last time a politician answered a question with something that remotely resembled a straight answer unless it was planted (i.e. someone from their own party asking the quesiton that allows them to ramble on about the point they are trying to make)?
Politicians lining up to ask questions that will not be answered, the non-answer will then be boo'ed by the first party and the speaker will say order, order .... it's a farse, and not even a good one.
My view is that if politicians want to waste their time on this pantomime, then they should do it on their own time, and at their own expense.
I think it's time to dump this nonsense and more forward to a more realistic way of conducting the business of running the country.
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Re Labour making a poor fist of being in opposition, while trawling the media yesterday I came across a very valid point (on the Daily Politics?) that the reason why the Harperson is taking a marginally more constructive stand is that she, like "Duff" Gordon spent many years on the opposition benches and knows what to expect come the general election, whilst Jacqui S only arrived in Westmidden in '97 as a Blair babe (now one of Godon's gorgons, perhaps) and never experienced opposition.
Of course, sitting in Pole position on the Portillo List* she may well never get to know the opposition benches.
Perhaps London Labour should send some observers to Holyrood to watch the hapless Gray strutting his stuff in order "prepare for opposition", if only to learn how not to go about it.
* The Tories need a 3.37% swing to unseat her in Redditch.
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#29 Bluelaw.
You are absolutely correct. And therein lies the danger, as no one wil be able to put pressure onto the FM on important areas such as public transport, which is not being dealt with properly.
I mean, what is so difficult about researchign some facts then hitting the Government of the day with awkward questions? Why do ALL parties - as #33 noted - spin out their answers.
If a poltician gave a straight answer I think most people would respect that. And respect is to me what is seriously lacking at present.
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#33 blogger
"I think it's time to dump this nonsense and more forward to a more realistic way of conducting the business of running the country."
With which system would you replace/update it?
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Re #36
I think that we should do away with the 'chamber' and focus more on committees as these seem to be where the actual business of moving forward on any subject is achieved.
The government should be run more like a commercial business (or even a well run public organisation) with ministers and opposition members working in focused groups to achieve a benefit for the country
Questions should be written and answered by the offices of the relevant minister with a limit as to the number of questions from each party (note, not questions per minister, but per party) so as to stop the waste of public money in providing answers. Answers would be mandatory and require a substantive answer on topic.
Let me be clear that I believe that our elected representatives have to be accountable, but I do not think that the house of commons or chamber at Holyrood advances this in the slightest.
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33. I was a regular visitor to the US Congress during one of my contracts over there, and it was astonishing how often you would have a Rep or a Senator giving a lengthy presentation to a completely empty chamber (bar a disinterested/busy-with-something-else Speaker on the podium).
The chambers only ever serve a purpose during votes, with all the interesting debate happening in the various committee rooms (away from the cameras and publicity opportunities, and where poor answers are not accepted).
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#37
Thanks, that's interesting.
In particular the point about moving towards replicating some aspects of business. Seems sensible. I can see merit in that.
I always found it strange that there should be such a chasm between how government is run and how business operates, as the former is as important, and even more so.
Thanks.
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37 and 39. This is the way government and the public sector has been going for a while now.
Much of the front-line work is now being done by the autonomous agencies, run by a board of directors consisting of each agency's executive directors plus 'non-executives' representing the shareholders (ie. us) and, if relevant, other related agencies/stakeholders. As well as removing unnecessary political influence in their day-to-day running, this has made the agencies more directly accountable to the people and agencies they work for and with, and has made the public sector in general more flexible as it is now far easier to switch the agencies from one ministerial department to another as and when required.
The civil service itself is slowly being reduced to just the policy and strategy side. In the 90s, the conservative government even suggested it could wind down the 500,000 civil service to just 50,000, with the rest of government run by agencies.
Parliamentary committees are obviously the 'shareholders' meeting the directors.......you get the picture!
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#40
I do. (They should send in Sir John Harvey Jones! - if he were still alive...)
So, therefore the debating chamber and related hullabaloo is just a great big PR exercise?
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#40 Reluctant-Expat
A good analogy.
Would you agree with me (to use parliamentary phraseology) that in the second half of the 20th century, there was an unfortunate tendency for Governments in much of the Western world to become too involved in the micro-management of public affairs?
We seem to be in the process of drawing back from that position, but the powers of backbenchers to scrutinise not just Government, but the agencies needs to be enhanced.
Unfortunately, that last aspect requires that the "tyrannies of the parties" needs to be reduced.
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42. Of course the politicians were too involved in the minutiae of government, they still are.
At the very top, I think the UK would be far better off if Secretaries and Ministers were appointed experts (approved by Parliament obviously) instead of consecutive elected MPs with little relevant experience. Nowhere in business would you put a novice in charge of 50,000 staff and a multi-billion budget and democracy would not die if Govt ran along the same lines (as it does in the US).
I would like the Dept of Health to be run by the UK's best doctor, Treasury by the best economist, Education by the best headteacher, Home Office by our best lawyer, Defence by the best ex-General, FCO by our best diplomat, Trade by our best businessman and so on.
As for backbencher oversight of agencies, that is still there. The committees regularly call in Director-Generals of the agencies when budgets are up for review, after headlining incidents, during re-organisation etc.
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Your comments are well founded Brian.
It makes me genuinely proud to see such a mature and detailed level of parliamentary debate at Holyrood. It is a refreshing and modern contrast to the confrontational and posturing style of Westminster which invariably obscures much more than it reveals.
This kind of performance by our elected representatives can only serve in the long run to build confidence in the necessity and benefits of recovering full sovereign powers and status for Scotland's Parliament.
It is of great credit to MSPs and the people of Scotland that we have transcended the 'pretendy' and 'parish council' status that London intended and that we had the courage to ignore all the scaremongers in electing a Government that could stand up for Scotland.
It is such a shame that Labour and their captive Calmanites are so determined to smother Scotland's positive aspirations.
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41. Yep!
Well, it is through my eyes anyway.
I appreciate it is where we voters get to see the actions and performance of our PM & co being 'discussed' but PMQs, and now the FMQs, are little more than inane point-scoring and publicity-seeking exercises.
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#43 Reluctant-Expat
"I would like the Dept of Health to be run by the UK's best doctor ........."
and the economy by the UK's best bankers
Oh, it was.
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Oldnat,
I worry that your advocating a (please correct me if I'm wrong) confederal UK in a federal Europe sends out the unfortunate signal that Scotland is too lacking to be an independent nation without 'keping hold of it's mammie's hand'.
Far be it from me to rubbish your constitutional suggestion (it might turn out to be majorly significant?), but while it is of course relevant, I don't see the future role of Scotland in the wider world as a determining factor in whether or not Scotland should be independent.
(Just a muse...)
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47. Try a federal UK in a confederal Europe.....
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I think one of the reasons that there is such a disconnect between people and politicians is to do with the adversarial style of politics that dominates Westminster and has been imported into Holyrood. I am reliably informed this is less the case amongst our EU partners and I think we could do with looking at how they conduct their parliamentary business.
I admit I'm biased but I feel Salmond at first was conciliatory and tried to get away from the yah-boo-sucks style of debate but has himself been forced to defend himself and his party as robustly as he evidently does. Blame's a silly game but I feel the Unionist parties, desperate to emulate Westminster, are largely responsible for the tone that has been set. I believe that the SNP would adopt a more x-party consensus approach to Scotland's problems but Nulab in particular cannot accept the SNP in government and wish to impress their bosses at Westminster by trying to take them down a peg or two which makes them look utterly pathetic.
The upshot is few people care about Gray or Scott or Goldie trying to corner the SNP with what is mostly negative, often scaremongering nonsense. People aren't interested in points scoring or landing blows. They aren't interested in semantics or spin or verbosity. They're not interested in what makes good fodder for journalists. They want people getting down to the business of making life in Scotland better. I think Salmond at least realises this and I think his positivity and his talking up of Scotland, his belief that Scotland can change for the better will reap real dividends in the end. That's a real dividend incidentally, not the illusory Union dividend we hear so much about ;-)
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#47 aye_write
No. I advocate Scotland being an independent state within a Confederal Europe.
However, I see practical difficulties in going straight there. Being a gradualist by nature, I see these difficulties being minimised by creating a Confederal UK first, and later transferring the Confederal powers from the UK to the EU.
At the end of the day, all I can do is to argue for my vision, and use my votes in the way that gets me nearer to that.
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#48
Thanks! I'll happily get something wrong if it means I learn something.
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#50 oldnat
Ok, thanks. I suppose that argument could reassure some of the 'fierties' (I'm not looking it up!) out there...
But the difficulty with utilising such persuasion is, that if some remain unconvinced or are even hostile to the suggestions posed, it can have a regressive rather than a progressive impact on the furtherment of the core cause.
Back to the thread!
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Scotland should be independent first and then part of a Federal Europe. Any form of UK federalism is an unecessary diversionary nonsense.
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53
Agreed entirely. This should be the LibDen choice - though the LibDems bear no resemblence whatsover to the more thoughtful Liberals which preceded them.
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