The US decides
Were you up for Washington? State, that is, not DC.
The moment, at 0400 UK time, when the blue line advanced beyond the 270 college votes required to ensure that Barack Obama is US President Elect.
After months of media hype and political hokum, it came down to lines of quiet Americans, queuing to vote.
Expended cash, endless effort, debate, argument, claim and counter-claim, an absurdly complex electoral system - and it's all settled by determined citizens, often standing in the rain for the chance to make their choice.
This morning in Edinburgh, I chaired a breakfast discussion under the auspices of the Scottish North American Business Council.
It was attended by a range of guests: politicians, folk from finance, sundry others.
There was palpable excitement at the election of the first president from an African-American background.
There was enthused analysis over the clarity of the outcome, over the reasons for victory and defeat.
Also, though, there was a sense of expectations which may be difficult to meet.
Just look at the raw economic figures in the US: manufacturing at a quarter century low, car sales slumping.
Questions raised this morning. Will President Obama - and the new Congress - maintain, in full, the banking bail-out?
Will there be an economic reinvigoration package: of what sort?
What happens to energy policy: will sustainability fall victim to the urgent need for economic growth?
What happens to foreign policy? The Middle East, the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan.
More generally, is this a seismic shift in US voting patterns - or change driven by one well-funded, highly-motivated individual, facing an opponent tainted by the unpopularity of his predecessor?
If it is a fundamental change, can President Obama retain the confidence of the young, the students, the African-Americans who have offered him their energetic support?
I'm 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~47~RS~)
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Ahem! Calman commission taking evidence in London today, Glenrothes by-election tomorrow, anybody?
On an aside, congratulations to Barack Obama, here's hoping for the change he's promised.
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The people of the United States of America have high expectations from President Obama. President Obama gave the vision of change, he will be expected to 'make it happen'.
However about 50 years ago would we have pictured a non-white person walking into the White House? No. Simply by winning the elections, President Obama will have managed to inspire millions of people. Let's hope this is only the start to a legacy.
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#1 ScotInNotts
Spot on. And interesting how "open" the Calman Commission is - the London session isn't even on their events list on their website.
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Probably few of you experianced the South in the '50s. This is fantastic; it may not be The Dream but it certainly is a dream come true. A Man's a man for a' that!
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3. "the London session isn't even on their events list on their website."
http://www.commissiononscottishdevolution.org.uk/engage/oral-evidence.php
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Brian
You miss the most impressive feat of the Obama campaign, which has been the way he has renewed democracy, in that he has inspired many people who have not previously voted to register and to vote. In particular people who previously felt remote and removed from the political process.
The queue's witnessed on TV were quite a sight, peopple queuing for 4 hours to vote. This is a considerable achievment. The fact he raised so much of his funding form real people is also an achievment. He appears to have built a grass roots movement, the kind which is dissapearing in this country.
If only we had a politician capable of achieving the same in this country. None of our current crop can inspire and renew in this way. We face dropping participation in democracy, more and more people feel it is less important to vote.
So I for one congratulate Mr Obama not only for his victory but for the renewal of democracy in America.
What we need to do in the coming months is try to find similar inspiration, a vision for the future. Non of our politicians have shown this quality of leadership or vision so far. Perhaps we need to look at younger more able politicians to offer some hope.
Barak will now face the daunting challenge of delivering on the expectation he has created, no easy feat. But he has already achieved a feat that few other democracy's have seen in recent years.
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TO THE CALMAN COMMISION.
scotland should receive the same per head as london, in fact all of britain should receive the same as london.
london is like a big sponge that soaks up all the money and resources from the rest of the country.
why should london workers receive a london allowance, as it forces up the price of the house prices / rents ect. that londoners have to pay.
the higher the london allowance is the higher the charges that londoners have to pay and the less other parts of the country receive.
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#6 Reluctant-Expat
Thanks for the link.
Rather odd that they tucked away the info re their Westmidden sessions on their Oral Evidence page without giving it a mention on their Events page referred to in my #3.
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Whats going on in Glenrothes?
Anyone know or do we need obama to visit before we find out?
Honestly I know what happends in the US effects us but Nicks blog covers this already - how about covering something that effects us even more than the US - Gordon Browns future and Glenrothes?
Or is that simply too boring for the BBC.
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Who'd have thunk it?
A black US President before a black UK PM.
As for the first non-white First Minister of Scotland, is there ANY likely candidate at this point in time?
Even if there is no other impact upon our nation, I hope that all of those Scots who have their origins elsewhere in the world (regardless of the colour of their skins) reflect upon how they can more definitely shape the future of the country - and believe that they can make it so.
After all, the Scots came here from the north of Ireland...
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C'mon Glenrothes. It's time for change.
Please, please, please don't let us down. If Gordon can somehow sneak a win it will be unbearable. He may even use the event to claim that we have now turned the corner, his work here is done and call an election. He'll get annihilated in the polls but he'll avoid the second (third, fourth, fifth and sixth quarters) of negative growth and the economically dyspraxic Labour apologists will, years from now, claim that this was a Tory (or SNP) depression.
Certainly nothing to do with Teflon Gordon.
C'mon Glenrothes. Don't let us down. Please, don't give him even a sliver of hope. Bury him. Force him to cling in there for another 18 months so that the voters of the UK never, ever forget who destroyed the economy.
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9. mr_ripvanwinkle, London's tax surplus last year was around #10bn, in other words enough to pay the entire Olympic bill in one swoop.
However, the surplus was instead taken by the Treasury and distributed evenly throughout the UK so that every person receives roughly the same spending per head (+/-5%).
Furthermore, this useful map demonstrates regional public spending as a % of local GDP. If the figure is below 43%, the region is a net contributor, above 43% are the net recipients.
However, you are a Scottish nationalist, so I will simply assume you will ignore these little factettes and will eventually repeat your original whinge as if you had never been informed of them in the first place.
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I have just watched the two speeches by the President-elect Obama and the defeated candidate McCain.
McCain's speech was one of the most gracious and generous that I have ever witnessed. Even when some Republicans booed when Obama's name was mentioned McCain had the decency to put them in their place. Respect oozed from the pores of this man and even though I wanted Obama to win, I sincerely believe that the Americans have turned down a man who would have made a great president.
As to Obama I also believe that this man will make a great president for he sincerely believes in his ideals and roots but will listen to the needs of those who did not vote for him.
America was in a no-lose situation. Whoever had won would have been a saviour for the troubles that America now sees itself in.
I wish both men the best of luck and also to the USA.
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Trimmtrab at #12
I totally agree. The date for this by-election was chosen by Gordon Brown so that it the possible negative result would be hidden under the barrage of info coming from the US. Glenrothes has been so under-reported it is an affront to those of us who really do care about the democratic process in THIS country.
I've just watched Brian Taylor on the lunchtime news bulletin saying...well..nowt really other than it would be good for democracy if there were queues at the Glenrothes polling stations as there had been in the US, and that John Prescott was in the building behind him. All very low-key indeed.
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# 9 mr_ripvanwinkle
I can't agree that all regions within the UK should get the same money per head of population. There are bound to be areas where certain requirements of that area will need them to receive more money than other areas. If all of the UK is able to start off on an equal footing then I would agree with your sentiment, however, the UK is a diverse landscape with different problems to overcome.
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17. At 1:56pm on 05 Nov 2008, Reluctant-Expat.
Perhaps it would be a little more illuminating if the analysis took account of the way in which the City and our large corporations move everyone's money (pensions, savings etc) to London and artificially inflate the 'local' GDP.
Perhaps also, the analysis could do something useful with the data and suggest a regional development strategy, instead of one which sucks everything into the South East, whch could increase local GDP across the country.
london the sponge.
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#17, Reluctant-Expat
Distributing on a 'per head' basis institutionalises the bias against Scotland, ignoring issues surrounding population density.
Most public services are more expensive to deliver when the users of the service are thinly spread.
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Salmond, never to miss a trick, is jumping on the Obama band wagon and claiming that he (Obama) has Scottish roots through his mother’s side of the family. Quite frankly so what? Are we now to claim Obama as one of our own? Does Obama even know who Alex Salmond is? Does he care who he is?
The difference between Obama and Salmond is that the former appears to be an inspirational statesman who offers an inclusive vision for the people of the USA (Government of the people, by the people for the people). Salmond on the other hand is a divisive figure who offers inspiration to a narrow faction of Scottish society who condemn and abuse their fellow countrymen if they do not share their vision (Government of the SNP, by the SNP for the SNP). Scotland will not be at peace with itself whether it remains within the UK or leaves it. We need our own Obama now more then ever. And Salmond is no Obama.
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#9 mr_ripvanwinkle
Expat is quite correct that the published figures demonstrate that identifiable public expenditure as a % of identifiedGDP means that London and the South East have been net contributors to public spending elsewhere in the UK.
Since London is one of the world's greatest financial centres, it would be surprising if this were not so.
However, there are certain additional factors which mean that the "real" figures (whatever they may be) would not show the degree of difference shown in the map he linked to.
All oil and gas income is excluded, as the Continental Shelf is labelled as a separate economic region. Including that would increase the GDP of Scotland, and the more northerly Eastern regions of England.
All public spending which is considered to be for the benefit of the whole UK (eg Government and Civil Service, Defence etc) is excluded. Such spending, however, is of significant advantage to the economies of the regions in which the spending happens. Much of this spending takes place in London and the South East.
London is about to receive a huge boost in public spending on infrastructure (Crossrail etc).
Much of the inflated GDP over the last 10 years has been from the financial sector. The realisation that much of that was illusory, is likely to mean a reduction in GDP for areas with a significant financial sector, including Scotland and the North of England, but disproportionally so in London
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20. At 2:20pm on 05 Nov 2008, gedguy2.
where as you are correct in what you say about different regions requiring more than others, the main problem with the UK is that all most of the countries wealth centres around london, and london receives more per head than any other part of the UK.
example, most of the television licence fee collected around the country end up on londons books, and the same goes for most of the large companies.
plus the london working allowance puts more into londons account at the expence of the rest of the UK.
the north of england receive about two thirds per head as london does.
londons the problem for the rest of the UK.
its like a big sponge that soaks up the countries tallent and money.
can't agree that all regions within the UK should get the same money per head of population. There are bound to be areas where certain requirements of that area will need them to receive more money than other areas. If all of the UK is able to start off on an equal footing then I would agree with your sentiment, however, the UK is a diverse landscape with different problems to overcome
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Someone is actually arguing that London subsidises the rest of the UK.
As pointed out by at least one other poster, that depends rather a lot on how economic activity is rolled up and reported. And tell me, in what city was the report prepared that showed this metropolitan largesse? Oh, let me guess.
This will be the first time in history that the capital of an empire has impoverished itself to subsidise the periphery.
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#24 darwinsmonkey
to you and others who have chosen to focus on this inocuous story, have you actually read the article?
Mr Salmond said Mr Obama had sent a message of support to the Scottish Government in April for the Tartan Day and Scotland Week celebrations in the US.
"He was kind enough to send a message of support to Scotland earlier this year pointing out his own Scottish ancestry"
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#17 Reluctant-Expat
What a surprise that your map came from CEBR, a private consultancy with its HQ in London EC1 and the registered office in Regents Park.
#22 mr_ripvanwinkle
Well said, but most of the City and the Civil Service chain themselves even more firmly to their desks than "Duff" Gordon to his own in Downing Street.
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#24 darwinsmonkey
ScotInNotts has already pointed out that you misunderstood the story, in your desperation to post a sneering comment.
Even more substantially, you miss the most important part of the Obama story.
Of course he is an inspirational leader, but he could have done nothing without the millions of people who voted for him, sent him $5 donations, volunteered to work for the campaign, but above all who believed in his message of Change and Hope.
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Wow! Lots of nationalist reasons why London, Europe's richest region, can't possibly produce a tax surplus....and not one match!
So, is it just us that produces a tax surplus then?
And has anyone with access to the real accounts (and not some nonsense prepared by an amateur) supported any of this?
No, I didn't think so.
Salmond should exploit this vast amount of insane nationalist drivel for one of his renewable energy schemes.
I ask once again: Is there anything said by the nationalists that is actually true?
No, I didn't think so.
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29. Yes, Brownedov. It's another example of one of your many conspiracy theories.
Tool.
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#13, Forfarian, be careful. I appreciate you probably know that 'the Scots' who came from Dalriada in the fourth century and 'the Scots' who won the wars of Independence a thousand years later are not at all the same people, but people with bizarre ideas about celtic racial purity tend to deliberately conflate the two.
William the Welshman was called William the Welshman ('Wallace') because the part of Scotland where he was born had been part of Wales only 150 years before his birth. Ethnically he was probably Welsh and he may even have spoken Welsh - it was certainly commonly spoken in Ayrshire and Galloway in his day. Robert de Brus was half French. Other ethnic groups who made up the Community of Scotland which signed the Declaration of Arbroath included Angles (or 'English' if you prefer), Scandinavians, Flemings and a mix of other ethnicities.
There were even Nubian ex-legionaries settled in the vicinity of Hadrian's wall in the third century, so there are certainly people in Scotland who have Negro blood going back at least that far. We are a mongrel nation.
The descendants of 'the Scots' who came from Dalriada to Argyle in the fourth century are mostly called Campbell or McNeill; if you don't have one of those surnames then you're probably not 'ethnically' Scots. Like most of us.
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# 26 mr_ripvanwinkle
Don't get me wrong, I am a suppoerter of the SNP and always have been. Whether I stay that way after independence, well the jury is out on that. I was not saying that only Scotland should benefit more from the Calman Commision as there are many places in England, Wales and N. Ireland which need help just as much as Scotland and, it may surprise you, but London is not populated with fat cats on every street corner. There is a lot of poverty down here too. I have lived in London on and off for over 30 years so I feel that I can comment on this.
Many of the posters on this blog are right; I don't trust how the figures are presented and this is not a swipe at Labour but at the British Government. I wouldn't trust the British Government as far as I can throw them. When it suits them they can be 'economic with the truth' as can any Government no matter what its political creed. As my father once said: 'It doesn't matter who you vote for, the Government always gets in.'
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Since the Scotland Office has absolutely no responsibilities, why on earth does it have any civil servants who spent £2,100 on kettles and TVs?
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Greetings from a rather dreich North Carolina, which has yet to formally declare its choice for President.
A sesimic shift or an incredibly well-organized campaign? In my opinion, it is more the latter. I get the impression that a growing number of people are tired of the "Religious Right" running the Republican Party. That is going to have to change if they wish to regain power nationally.
Barack Obama is, I think, in an interesting position. He will be unable to deliver on many of his promises. The economy won't let him. However, I don't think it will matter. He has a year or more to blame the previous administration for the country's ills. Then the economy will get better (as economies do), people will feel good and his re-election chances will be enhanced, without him actually doing anything of note. Which begs the question - why do we bother with elected officials at all?
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Re 30
Oldnat you hit the nail on the head again.
I also note the odious exchange between Cameron and Brown today, both trying to align themselves to Obama.
Messers Brown, Cameron, Clegg and Salmond all miss the point. They have all tried and failed to offer a vision that unites and gets voters active in the way Obama has done.
Perhaps one or more will take some inspiration and drag politics up a level or two, but I very much doubt any has the skill to do so.
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#31 Reluctant-Expat
Don't be silly.
I made it quite clear that London, as one of the world's greatest financial centres is bound to have a significantly higher share of GDP production, but that your source ignores significant other factors.
You have failed to address these.
You persist in your misunderstanding that there are any "the real accounts" that anyone can have "access to". Brownedov has previously clearly demonstrated your lack of fiscal understanding of this.
I'm afraid that any bluster on economic issues, from someone like you who believed that our share of the UK fiscal deficit had to be added to the Scottish deficit, is never likely to be convincing.
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#33 Simon_Brooke
"We are a mongrel nation."
Absolutely true, and thank goodness for it!
I'm also delighted to include all the more recent additions - Lithuanians, Poles, Chinese, Pakistanis, English etc.
One or two individuals, however, I don't mind having emigrated!
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33. And all that nationalist drivel on 'Celtic purity' has relevance to the 21st Century....how?
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Put simply the victory of Mr Obama is due to his eloquence, that he mobilised many who didn't previously vote, that the current President has caused a backlash. He's also promised what sound like radical policies for the US, such as easier access to healthcare.
Listening to Americans it does appear they expect 'change' but don't know what it is. That might be a problem if it isn't as much change as they expect.
However politics is often the ability to make things appear on message and Mr Obama is a very good speaker.
I don't think its a fundamental change, it's a reaction that might easily fade.
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me thinks expat is losing the plot because his nulab are going down the tube in glenrothes.
note the insults for those that oppose his view of scotland.
barack said in his letter to salmond said that he had scottish ancestors, and he was proud of the fact.
he certainly seems a decent politician that cares about his country, but then so do the majority of americans.
its only the likes of expat that run down scotland and tell us we are to poor to be a nation in our own right.
i wonder if his name is alistair campbell by any chance.
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#36 Skip_NC
Hi
I was out in NC in the fall, and the Dole/Hagan race had already become nasty - I gather it deteriorated even further.
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37. "I also note the odious exchange between Cameron and Brown today, both trying to align themselves to Obama."
Salmond tried to claim Obama as SCOTTISH!
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38. Brownedov is a balloon and has demonstrated very little other than an ability to speak volumes but say nothing. That you give him any credibility does not do you any favours.
One more time, this year's UK deficit is next year's debt. Quite why are STILL struggling with that is beyond me. Is there a small child you can ask?
Maybe you and Brownedov are from the same mould.
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31 Reluctant- Expat
Very deceptive,and shame on the people who actually vacum up this drivel.
Firstly, Scots pay tax too: We put money into the pot and take money out. Where does this idea come from that English taxes are dished out amongst the other UK nations?
Secondly, When producing revenue figures for Scotland there are a few major discrepensies. Tax gathered from Scotland's Whisky and Oil industries are not included for some unknown reason. Removing financial services from London's count would make London look like a public spending junkie, too.
Finally, The scottish government was allocated a budget of £28bn this year, or about £5600 for each of the 5 million residents of Scotland: rather less than the £8000 odd usually quoted. Official figures suggest Scotland produces somewhere in the region of £45bn to UK coffers, and so, contrary to popular tabloid belief is a net provider of public spending in the UK, rather than a net reciever.
Other money spent in Scotland is mainly on defence; that is the disproportionate amount of Scots in the Armed Forces and the Nuclear deterant based on the Clyde. These are included in the the 'tabloid' public spending figure of Scotland. These same tabloid figures do not include such things as the Olympic games, millenium dome, London Crossrail, Channel Tunnel and London underground extension in England's figures. So that's billions and billions of pounds wiped off England public expenditure per head, making it appear relativly low. Talk about doctoring figures to ones advantage.
What I would suggest: Move the nuclear weapons to London, maybe Greenwhich. See how that goes down. They'll be paying for them and keeping them in their own backyard instead of pawning them off to Scotland and placing them so close to Scotland's largest city. This expenditure will be removed from Scotland and added to England. We could also pretend that banking doesn't exist in England. Or we could choose some of England's other large industries. Remove those figures from England's provision to UK coffer's. Then, we could pretend that the Scottish parliament was never built, Glasgow's commonwealth games aren't happening. We could link ourselves to Northern Ireland through the Irish sea but not include the building or maintenance of such tunnel in our expenditure figures.
Do all this and then the figures will be fair. Or, everyone could stop moaning and realise that Scotland is self-sustaining. It is in a good position (free education, free care for the elderly etc.) because of good governance. The SNP work with £28bn and provide this! Not £8000 per head, £5600 per head! We provide way more than we get back from the UK.
End Of Rant !
Wansanshoo.
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Fellow expats, and in fact anyone who doesn't have regular access to STV might be interest to know that, as for Glasgow East, STV will be streaming their by-election special from 22:39 GMT Thursday on their Glenrothes by-election page.
As far as I can work out from the schedules, the BBC are only fully covering it on Radio Scotland which is streamed for expats too, but there adoesn't seem to be any special TV coverage.
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34. At 4:56pm on 05 Nov 2008, gedguy2.
i fully apreciate that there is poor areas of london, as in all major cities.
and i know about the cleaners of the large companies that are paid the minimum wage while the bosses are paid in the millions.
its probably more the fat cat businesses thats the problem in that there are to many in the one city and should be spread about the country more evenly.
when scotland becomes independent or have full fiscal powers, i hope that the scottish government will spead the jobs more evenly around scotland so that the highlands and islands and borders can reap the benefit and stop the migration to the bigger cities.
your father is a wise man, i like that saying.
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#32 Reluctant-Expat
"Yes, Brownedov. It's another example of one of your many conspiracy theories."
As it's bonfire night, perhaps you're entitled to see plots everywhere for once, but it's you who use the c-word ad nauseam.
As others have pointed out and you would acknowledge if you were not so blinded by hatred at the thought of home rule, a London consultancy asked by a London Civil Service to produce statistics for a London Central Government to show what nice folk they are will hardly look at the original location of the product - indeed they may well not know it - but the reporting location of the producer. This will inevitably skew the data in London's favour. No conspiracy, just human and corporate nature.
"Tool"
Which one do you suggest I use? No detailed data or source information is available on the CEBR website.
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#31 Reluctant-Expat
Your posts are usually such rants now that I skip over most of them, but I missed this one.
"And has anyone with access to the real accounts (and not some nonsense prepared by an amateur) supported any of this?"
Who outside government has access to the real accounts? Nobody independent, that's for sure.
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#42 mr_ripvanwinkle
"i wonder if his name is alistair campbell by any chance."
Wishful thinking that the master spinner would waste his time on reprobates like us.
In any event, he'd make a better fist of it.
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#44 Reluctant-Expat
You are being silly again.
You also don't seem to read other posts -
"He was kind enough to send a message of support to Scotland earlier this year pointing out his own Scottish ancestry".
The claim was Obama's.
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No time for a novice is that what Brown said as he toured the World as the financial saviour.
Ignore him Obama he still hasn't even learnt what honest democracy is about and I wish you and your country all the best for the future.
As the odds at Glenrothes widen in favour to the SNP I found this in a Tayside paper.
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/output/2008/11/05/newsstory12199103t0.asp
'The subject turned to the nature of the candidates’ campaigns near the end of the event, at which point Ms Balfour made a shocking claim. She alleged that during Sarah Brown’s recent visit to Glenrothes, a Labour “minder” whacked her in the stomach.
The disabled candidate, who was in a wheelchair during the hustings, was on crutches at the time of the alleged incident.
“I saw Sarah Brown and wanted to say hello,” she told The Courier after the event. “I just wanted a wee blether but an arm came flying out.”
She said she could have easily fallen over and hit her head and that part of the incident had been captured on camera by a Newsnight team.
Labour’s delegation left the hustings before The Courier could speak to them for a response.
Sums up Labours contempt of the electorate.
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# 33 Simon_Brooke
Isn't it wonderful that we have such a wonderful mix of people. Let it always be so.
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#42 having (and I blame myself for this) read more than a few of the reluctant expats postings I have like yourself Ripvan come to the conclusion that expat does indeed think that the people of Scotland are not only incapable but also unworthy of running their own affairs, such is his fear and hatred of the thought of Scotland being an independent nation it clouds his judgement (and manners) and leads him to some outrageous shows of contempt for (if we can believe he is Scottish) his own people. But enough of small minded, negative and socially ignorant persons like reluctant expat and George W Bush.
Good luck President-elect Obama you most certainly will need it given the hand George Dubyah has left you with, but I do think you will make a positive difference.
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#45 Reluctant-Expat
Thanks for the insult - if that's what was intended. It usually shows that you're losing the plot.
As I pointed out the last time you were using statistics as though they were accounts, full accruals based UK accounts (WGA) were promised in the 2008 budget to be issued for the first time for the 2009-10 financial year and will not be available until after the General Election.
Government promises on this are on the HM Treasury website going back to about 1998, but we can be sure they won't be externally audited, so we will still probably not know enough about PFI commitments, but they'll be a lot better than the nothing we have now.
It's only then that we will have a pretty good idea of the true deficit situation.
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#45 Reluctant-Expat
Silly again.
"this year's UK deficit is next year's debt"
Not how an economist would put it, but essentially true.
Also nothing to do with the claim that you made on an earlier thread that in "calculating" (I use the word loosely) the actual Scottish deficit you were adding the Scottish deficit to our share of the UK deficit (of which it was already part).
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Maybe the Gala-day parade will stop waving those flag's when the nats are
put back to their rightful political position
of never gaining more than 24% of the electoral vote.
Look, the only reason why the nats have done well, Is because of the Iraq war.
Look nats, No one votes on the nats as a political progressive party with good policies
it just doesn't exist, the nats get votes through negative campaigning. end of.
RE these kids are so full of it! .....
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Brian - you asked
"is this a seismic shift in US voting patterns"
In Party terms - no. The share of the popular vote has not changed much. The difference lies in the demographics in states like Virginia.
However, the massive difference lies in the significant decline in ethnicity or racism as a factor in how individuals vote for another individual.
When I first visited the USA in 1979, it was a society hugely divided on racial lines. Every time I've visited since, those divisions have been noticeably less.
My grandson's great-great-grandfather was a slave-owner. His mother voted enthusiastically for Obama.
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Presumably on the basis that anything not about the US elections is off-topic, my #47 has been referred to the mods, while the identical #132 on the previous thread survives.
It's about BBC Radio Scotland and STV streamed coverage on Thursday of an election I may not be allowed to mention.
Had I had a vote in the elction which is on-topic, I'd probably have voted Nader, but I suppose not having Palin as their next veep is some consolation.
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#42 having and I blame myself for this, read more than a few of the reluctant expats postings I have like yourself Ripvan come to the conclusion that expat does indeed think that the people of Scotland are not only incapable but also unworthy of running their own affairs, such is his fear and hatred of the thought of Scotland being an independent nation it clouds his judgement (and manners) and leads him to some outrageous shows of contempt for, if we can believe he is Scottish, his own people. But enough of small minded, negative and socially ignorant persons like reluctant expat and George W Bush.
Good luck President elect Obama you most certainly will need it given the hand George Dubyah has left you with, but I do think you will make a positive difference.
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BBC Scotland finally managed to acknowledge the fact that there is a by election in Glenrothes tomorrow on the evening news. Shots of the working class two jags fatman with the strange little Labour candidate in the background. Then we were treated to a tour of the local sports hall by Brian himself ( still euphoric over United nearly winning a game last night ). This was followed by A. Salmond shouting slogans and a Tory candidate about to be eaten by a golden eagle (Quite a scrawny one to boot ). Then to complete the coverage , a shot of Tavish and some cheery wee Liberal Dems. Oh what a jolly night, plenty of " Guy " material there. Maybe sometime on Friday if the wind's in the right airt , we'll get a result broadcast, loudly if Labour hold, subdued if they lose, as befits a broadcasting corporation that relies on Brown for it's funding.
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#58 derekbarker
"RE these kids are so full of it!"
An interesting comment on the provision of Religious Education in our schools.
However, I'm not sure if you are advocating that the US should allow prayer in public schools, or would prefer to see the continuing separation of church and state.
That discussion is appropriate to any discussion of the American political dynamic.
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RE what about that nat claim they had 1200
workers in Glenrothes over the week-end.
By heck, Billy smart could be doing with some of those monkeys.
Was it a sing song then a re-enactment of 1314, did young porter get a poke in the eye with a plastic sword?
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#62 kaybraes
I don't know whether visual images play with the electorate, but if they do then the "Shots of the working class two jags fatman with the strange little Labour candidate in the background." made Roy look puzzled, unsure, and out of place.
I almost hope he wins, because those images will damage his authority if he has to go back to Kirkcaldy High (the kids will already have made up some savage nicknames for him).
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#58 is there was a progressive party with good policies in Uk politics Derek?
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#42 having and I blame myself for this, read more than a few of the reluctant expats postings I have like yourself Ripvan come to the conclusion that expat does indeed think that the people of Scotland are not only incapable but also unworthy of running their own affairs, such is his fear and hatred of the thought of Scotland being an independent nation it clouds his judgement and manners leading him to some outrageous shows of contempt for his own people, if we can believe he is Scottish. But enough of small minded, negative and socially inept persons like expat and George W Bush.
Good luck President elect Obama you most certainly will need it given the hand George Dubyah has left you with, but I do think you will make a positive difference.
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J. Arthur MacNumpty links Minnesota with Markinch.
"Scares and smears no longer work: whether the election is for the Presidency of the United States, the Scottish Parliament, or a Westminster By-Election."
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#66
InmyKip, Is their anybody that take the snp seriously, apart from young porter that is!
and a few other band of bandits.
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So disappointed was AS about the nat brigades failings on the web-site, I hear he invited the oldnat history teacher to meet him in Dunfermline abbey. thus plot doth's thicken.
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#69 in terms that the SNP have ended the one party state in Scotland, in terms that although the SNP have a minority in parliament they have to work much harder than Labour ever had to work to reach consensus and get policies through, in terms that the SNP unlike the other three 'major' parties have no masters at Westminster who call the real tune, in terms that they are the only party that gives representation to those Scots who seek greater powers in governing themselves including independence, then Derek yes they are taken seriously by a sizeable proportion of the Scottish electorate. You may not like that Derek, you may even be contemptuous of it, but that is the reality.
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#62 kaybraes
Watch STV from 22:39 GMT Thursday or see my post on the previous thread for streamed links.
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#63 oldnat
One of the reasons I'd have preferred Nader is that both the big two are in hock to religious group.
Total separation of church and state would be my own preference throughout the existing UK. Wales and N.Ireland already have it, of course.
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#70
ah, our Derek, definitely a socialist in the mould of grandantidote. Good to know you count RE on the same side of the political spectrum as yourself, we can only hope you can enjoin more people of the same 'balanced' ilk to enhance your credibility.
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How much time has AS spent in Glenrothes
Has he pitched a tent down there?
So all the major issues take second place
to the FM, when there is an election taking place.
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#74
For every action there is a re-action.
Look a dont hold anybody to account,
if I agree that an individual makes a good point, I say so.
That seems fair to me.
I seek no credibility, I only seek justice.
Will the snp ever get serious about politics
and the people they are supposed to represent?
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#75 dearie me Derek no pleasing you is there, if AS didn't set foot in Glenrothes you would complain the fact that he has .....guess what......you still complain!
How's Gordon Brown doing on the election trail these days is he still sending is Missus out to rally support in the hope her staged managed performance at the Labour Party conference can be repeated in Glenrothes........that is nothing more than contemptuous of the Glenrothes electorate and one of the reasons many people in Scotland have had enough of the Labour party.
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Did anyone else see Paxman interview Dizzee Rascal on Newsnight?
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#75 A lot less than the time you've wasted at the keyboard.
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#75 He'll be copying our Gordie then, won't he. After all, despite the long standing convention against it, the UK PM is using his time to campaign for Nu-Lab, on the UK taxpayers dime.
Or are you a bit like R-E - Gordie Good, AS bad?
btw, is Gordie's wife still setting him up on blind dates with auld Fifer grannies, are Nu-Lab really that desperate for votes?
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At the end of the day all this blustering and abuse that's reached a fever pitch on this blog means nothing. The people of Glenrothes will decide who will represent them in London and that is the way it should be. Nobody has the right to tell anybody in Glenthothes how they should vote, they are big enough to decide for themselves. I will stand by their right to pick whomever they wish and I will stand by their democratic choice even if it is not whom I personally would have voted for. That is what democracy is all about.
Some of the posters on here should be ashamed of themselves for the rancid abuse that they have given out to people who do not support their political viewpoint.
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Brian
I am not surprised that you should blog on the US election. It does however point up the discrepancy between the politics of the sovereign state of the US of A and those Scottish politics upon which you are advertised to blog.
Just looking at the questions raised:-
1) the banking bail-out?
2) an economic reinvigoration package?
3) What happens to energy policy?
4) What happens to foreign policy?
5) is this a seismic shift in voting patterns
6) retain the confidence of the young, etc.
applied to Scottish politics only 5 and 6 can be addressed, as 1 to 4 are powers reserved away from our pretendy wee Parliament, and those then in relation to the "battle" between Labour and the SNP.
I look forward to your take on the Glenrothes election in similar terms to this one.
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#76 derekbarker
- Will the snp ever get serious about politics
and the people they are supposed to represent? -
I find it difficult to envisage anybody but you representing you; have you thought of going into politics yourself? However if you let the posters know who your SNP MP, MSP and/or Councillor(s) are, I'm sure one of the Nats will bring your views to their attention.
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Careful Simon_Brookes #33,
By diluting the demography or racial composition you dilute the nationalist raison d'etre (even though they fawn reasonableness). Remember that it is the deliberate actions of an Evil English Empire (insert Normans Brythons, Romans, Anglo-Saxons, Danish Vikings, Scots, Welsh, Irish, Polish and any other mamal that happened to breed there) that has wrought unfairness on Scotland.
Which kind of brings me to Salmond (and to a lesser extent Cameron / and the Scottish PM of the UK) fawning over the sensation that is Obama. He is Scottish! proclaims Salmond therfore we are the same. Please, toe curlingly, please do not try to leech onto an inspiritional US politician so that hopefully his star dust can sprinkle on your political agenda.
Salmond is about division of a people and victimhood not about inspirational unity.
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48. At 6:19pm on 05 Nov 2008, mr_ripvanwinkle wrote:
when scotland becomes independent or have full fiscal powers, i hope that the scottish government will spead the jobs more evenly around scotland so that the highlands and islands and borders can reap the benefit and stop the migration to the bigger cities.
-----------
Do you honestly believe they will do this? They won't, unless they want to set up a call centre somewhere. Westminister Council did this, Dingwall I believe.
The reality of any government is they will centralise where possible. Cheaper since you need less staff overall including management.
The problem is that most of the premium skills are located in cities since that is where most of the jobs are. Granted some would move but not all.
A token office here and there but it will depend on concentration of voters. That's what it will boil down to.
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#81 gedguy2
Good thoughts, but The Daily Mail claim to know the Glenrothes result already. Now if they had told everybody earlier, it would have saved the voters going out in the drizzle tomorrow!
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#84 spoken like a true Labourite
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#84 amicusalba
While you prove that you can't write
(feign not fawn)
(mammal not mamal)
(inspirational not inspiritional - twice)
You clearly can't read either.
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#84 amicusalba
Perhaps you also didn't read the article correctly or at all, as I posted in #28
Mr Salmond said Mr Obama had sent a message of support to the Scottish Government in April for the Tartan Day and Scotland Week celebrations in the US.
"He was kind enough to send a message of support to Scotland earlier this year pointing out his own Scottish ancestry"
You seem to be the only one pushing the victimisation angle at the moment. Perhaps it would be more refreshing if you had something positive to contribute instead of more unionist negativity and scaremongering.
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Congratulations to Obama. An amazing achievement for a black man in America.
We can achieve a dream in Scotland too. We have started and we continue with Glenrothes tomorrow.
Good luck to Peter Grant, Alex, and the SNP.
I predict a majority of 4189.
Freedom
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re 84
I agree with your sentiment entirely. Salmond will use any ploy to further his ends, however ridiculous. I am happy to agree Obama made the connection himself but Salmond was quick to try to exploit this today.
However if he had the ability to see a vision other than division and blaming others for our woes he might win the debate.
A lot of Scots would buy into a positive vision of Scotlands independant future if it was presented by what we could achieve and what we could do for ourselves.
However Salmond just hasn't got it.
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#87 beautifully deconstructing rebuttal.
Absolutely not a Labourite, nor Thatcherite, nor even a Salmondite. Who I fear is more of a ethnocentrinite
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#88 Forgive me old nat. Sometimes 2005 Crnogorski Merlot clouds my spelling but I refer you to my point #92.
If your thrust of your rebuttal is spelling then I guess you're truly an Old nat.
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I believe there is an election somewhere in Fife in the near future.
Any chance that you might comment on that before it happens?
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#86 oldnat
Good to know one lot of unionists have given up on the other lot's behalf, but I wouldn't call that source reliable.
I still think the probability is that it will play closer to SP voting intention than general election - especially as the media haven't tried arguing that Gordon / Government will fall if Roy fails.
I do note that most all NuLab interviewees in the media and particularly the "sources" as opposed to "names" talk about getting the vote out. In tonight's STV report, Grant thinks turnout will be high while Roy hopes it will.
I still feel that if turnout is over 50% it bodes fairly well for NuLab but up to 48% I'd go along with the Mail blogger. Obviously if turnout is over 50% and Roy fails, it's pretty catastrophic for NuLab. Getting 50% won't be easy.
I haven't seen anyone lately discussing the age of the roll, but that's bound to be a factor. 48% would represent an average "loss" based on Glasgow East, Crewe and Henley, but this roll is more than 3 months older so will have a lot of wastage and could be lower.
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#89 ScotInNotts
I've been following some blogs on US politics in the run up to their election.
It's interesting that some of their right wing posters use the same style of sneering language, insult, distortion, denial of refutation, and fear as some Unionist posters do here - and some posters of all tendencies on the newspaper blogs.
It's a strange phenomenon
(Like us, the US also has sensible posters who question change and its direction, but are reasonable people).
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Good Grief!
What a bunch of small-minded, parochial, little people you all are.
Here we have an epoch making moment in history. An African American is elected to the White House just 45 years after the freedom rides in Alabama, the Civil Rights Act, integration of schools and school bussing which led to riots, church burning and lynchings throughout the Old South. Do any of you actually remember 'Mississippi Burning'?
But instead, what exercises your every thought, an irrelevant election in a wee Scots town which is of historical significance to no one.
Perhaps one of you of you truly sad people could give us an in-depth analysis of your navel lint. Perhaps Greetings Earthling could favour us with more of his polysyllabic maunderings in the vain hope that it make he or she sound intellectual.
Please get out more - all of you.
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#91 northhighlander
Considering your normal balanced views, I'm surprised at your singling out one politician trying to associate himself with Obama.
They're all at it. It's what politicians do!
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88. At 9:53pm on 05 Nov 2008, oldnat.
you had me puzzled for a bit until i saw :-
How do you spell 'I-n-c-o-m-p-e-t-e-n-c-e' ;-)
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# 94 davefromluton
lol
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#93 amicusalba
The "thrust of my rebuttal" was that you hadn't bothered to read any of the original reports - or if you had, you misrepresented them.
(The spelling can easily be corrected if you use a spell checker. Mozilla Firefox has one built in, which you can set to check any spelling in a Comment box).
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93. At 10:25pm on 05 Nov 2008, amicusalba.
71. At 4:53pm on 13 Oct 2008, amicusalba wrote:
# 63. Pattymkirkwood;
How do you spell 'I-n-c-o-m-p-e-t-e-n-c-e' ;-)
--------------------------------------------------------pot kettle :-)
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# 91 northhighlander
The fact that Salmond claimed him as a Scot in the BBC report (17th century genealogy) just seems plain absurd to me. I guess I (as a Caucasian Scot) can also claim to be of African descent as per anthropologists
For me - and it may just be how the message is portrayed; There just seems something bitter as a reason for nationalism.
# 89 ScotInNotts
I was not particularly referring to your post but the BBC's comment of Alex Salmond.
#88
Please Sir - red marks through any grammatical or spelling errors.
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#97 Jeremiad
There are a number of BBC blogs which have been / are still discussing American politics - though I note that you have not posted on any of them.
Are you suggesting that there should be no discussion of related (or even unrelated) Scottish issues, and that we should all constantly "Obama obsess"?
PS See my #59 - I have a personal interest in what happens across the pond.
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SNP majority in Glenrothes? About 3500.
I'm just back home from there.
The Obama victory will help the SNP.
On Friday the Labour party will wake up with a lame duck leader and no plan to remove him.
Lots of fun ahead.
Labour in Scotland are now going to the same place in electoral support that the Tories reached in the 90s
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#93 amicusalba
I know perfectly well that someone will dig up my #88 in future, and use it against me - as mr_ripvanwinkle has done to you.
We should probably both have resisted the temptation to use that particular jibe!
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#103 amicusalba
"Please Sir - red marks through any grammatical or spelling errors."
Oh that I could!
:-)
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#103 amicusalba
(Mr Salmond said Mr Obama had sent a message of support to the Scottish Government in April for the Tartan Day and Scotland Week celebrations in the US.
"He was kind enough to send a message of support to Scotland earlier this year pointing out his own Scottish ancestry")
This is the BBC's comment on Alex Salmond, from the BBC article I referred to in my original post.
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Tavish Scott "This has been a great week for Democrats", Wills in a baseball cap.
No comments guys?
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Can anyone explain to me how sending a Lib-Dem to Westminster will bring about a 2p tax cut at Holyrood.
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Re 98 old nat
I am in comlete agreement with you and if you read my 37 you will see I accuse all equally. Today they were all awful.
But Salmonds effort was particularly cringe worthy.
I think we all need to take heed of the events in the USA, much as we like to think all things scottish on this blog, Obama will have an effect on every country in the world, such is the power of the USA.
We can learn from him that people can be brought back to participation in democracy by good politicans, if we had any.
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What does a President-Elect do for 11 weeks waiting for 20th January to come round?
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# oldnat
I don't post on any other blogs because I don't read them. I read this blog because it is mainly used by Scottish voters, albeit with a sizeable number of people who appear to be too young to vote.
What I'm looking for is any good ideas that might, just might, be worth taking a stage further in the process. It happens, but only very occasionally.
Incidentally, whilst confederalism might work in practise there is little or no taste for it in Scotland. Probably due to the adversarial nature of politics in the UK and by extension in Scotland. There is also little taste for internal subsidiarity to its lowest level, it would lead to gross inequality with some Councils becoming colossally wealthy and others sinking into dire poverty.
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I wonder how much money Alex Salmond has saved by not having to pay a bridge toll going back and forth across the Forth to Glenrothes seemingly on a daily basis...
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#43 oldnat,
Yes the race for North Carolina's US Senate seat did get a bit ugly. Elizabeth Dole (R) is as close to Royalty as North Carolina will ever get (or at least she was). In fact, Kay Hagan (D) had to really have her arm twisted to even run. She put out a couple of introductory ads and I actually contemplated voting for her. Then the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee (a national body) threw in several million dollars and dragged the race into the gutter. The RSCC followed suit and Sen. Dole stayed above the fray, doing nice, comforting ads until the last week. That's when she tried to link Kay Hagan to the Godless Americans Political Action Committee. Anyone who has visited NC for any length of time will know that NC is the buckle on the Bible Belt.
Sen. Dole was right to raise the issue, I think, but it backfired in a big way. I would still like to hear Ms. Hagan's explanation of why a Sunday School teacher and Presbyterian Church Elder would want to accept a donation from atheists. Officially, North Carolina is a Christian state and any elected official will disqualify themselves from office if they deny the existence of Almighty God (NC Constitution, Art VI, Sec 8). I'm not saying she's done that or that she will. I'd just like her to explain herself.
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105. At 10:58pm on 05 Nov 2008, sneckedagain wrote:
SNP majority in Glenrothes? About 3500.
I'm just back home from there.
The Obama victory will help the SNP.
On Friday the Labour party will wake up with a lame duck leader and no plan to remove him.
Lots of fun ahead.
Labour in Scotland are now going to the same place in electoral support that the Tories reached in the 90s
--------
SNP win? Most likely.
But how does Obama help the SNP?
Maybe he has some Scottish ancestry. I don't honestly know. But I have Scottish, Irish, French, Welsh and probably something with eight legs amongst others. Almost anyone going back a few generations is the same.
If the SNP really want to start using this then they really have lost the plot.
OK, there are similarities: a poor Government is unpopular and the current populist party is gaining strength. But that is where similarities end. Look at Labour just before they came to power. Now look where they are.
Perhaps Mr Salmond could return to the real world: public transport, especially trains are a mess. Crime is a problem. The economy has problems. Oil prices are dropping.
By all means have good relations with Obama, but don't overdo it.
He should be capable of winning Glenrothes without having to resort to dragging in anything that is remotely Scottish and claiming it as his own.
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#111 northhighlander
"good politicans" - something of an oxymoron I think!In modern days "politician"="lord" (and not just Mandelson!)
I despair of the modern obsession with the media-inspired obsession with party leaders.
They are for our use, not the other way round.
Decide on what you want, then use the politicians to get closer to that.
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#115 Skip_NC
Thanks for that - I didn't know about the NC Constitution.
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112. At 11:27pm on 05 Nov 2008, The_Forfarian.
he comes to scotland to cross the bridge for free, like all fifers.
imagine, nulab in scotland leaving the toll on both the fife bridges and removing it on all the other scottish bridges.
thats what nulab think of fifers.
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#114
Dont you think AS should have been in parliament rather than Glenrothes dealing with a very serious situation (the banking crisis)
Or do you think its ok for the FM to travel daily to Glenrothes at the cost of the tax payer considering the cost of security and government cars.
Or are the nats just simply a one man party wagon, that cant survive without the FM being there on a daily bases?
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Can anyone explain to me why sending a nat to westminster, will help the nats gain Independence?
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In response to #97 Jeremiad, who appears not to value or perhaps even comprehend the notion of civility in public discourse, the following "maundering" or meandering is dedicated. If polysyllabic words give you a headache, you must be a Labour voter. If you think that Scotland is not capable of epoch-making events and do not recognize the importance of the Glenrothes by-election to the UK and by extension ultimately to the wider world, I recommend that you stay in more and do some reading of polysyllabic "maunderings".
While contemplating the election that has just taken place on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, for, as you do not need anyone to tell you, it is historic for reasons which, I assume, you also do not need anyone to tell you, I found myself heading east again to see for myself a now defunct installation that the UK state's alliance with the US state caused to be constructed just outside Anstruther in the East Neuk in the North-East Fife constituency in the period known to you as the Cold War.
Anstruther (Ainster, as locals call it, dividing it into Wast Ainster and Aist Ainster to confuse outsiders even further) was a fishing village then, but its harbour is now occupied by a yachting marina. A few miles to the north of it there is a former farmhouse, below which is a large nuclear bunker (now a somewhat grim museum) which was to have become the headquarters of the surviving UK government apparatus for what would have remained of Scotland in the event of a nuclear conflict. This is where certain officials and the great and the good that you elect to look after you would have sheltered while the residents of Anstruther and the rest of the East Neuk and the rest of Fife and the rest of Scotland were burned to a crisp in the nuclear holocaust, which the chosen few would have waited out in some comfort in the bunker until radiation levels subsided and it bacame safe for them to re-emerge from the shadows to administer the wreckage. Not on your behalf, of course, because you could not possibly have survived. But life goes on, as you say, even if it is only the life of those who have extinguished it for those whom they are appointed or elected to serve.
The installation was, of course, top secret. Like many a UK government top secret, that meant that it was not secret at all. Local tradesmen who supplied the bunker, for it was continuously occupied, knew about it, not least because some of them were involved in the civil-defence organization which existed then, and so just about everyone in the vicinity knew about it and would no doubt have headed straight for it and demanded admittance to it in the event of a nuclear emergency, thus rendering it useless for the fairly useless purpose for which it was intended unless all these wretched people had been swiftly eliminated to allow the officials and the politicians to get through.
Somewhere there is a successor installation, one presumes, as your UK overlords are still playing nuclear games with your lives in collaboration with their allies on the other side of the Atlantic, and the Russian bogeyman is still the bogeyman and is returning you to the scenario that you all thought that you had left behind you even though the UK retained its nuclear weapons.
If the residents of Fife who are about to go to the polls in the Glenrothes constituency want this ludicrously lethal state of affairs to continue, they should vote for the Labour Party candidate, who may not have mentioned anything about this particular reserved matter, preferring, it seems, to talk about devolved matters that would be strictly none of his business if he became the Glenrothes member of the UK legislature. Those who would like good sense and reason to prevail look as if they will have to vote for the Scottish National Party candidate, as the SNP proposes to remove UK nuclear-weapons facilities from Scotland but can only do so if Scotland becomes independent, no doubt within the European Union, which will eventually provide a defence umbrella acceptable to and suitable for its member states.
So on this reserved issue, which I have chosen to focus on rather than plough through them all, scattering polysyllables in my wake, the choice for electors is essentially between backward-looking dangerous foolishness, as represented by the Labour Party, or forward-looking sense and worth as represented by the SNP:
"Then let us pray that come it may
(As come it will for a' that)
That Sense and Worth o'er a' the earth
Shall bear the gree an' a' that!
For a' that, an' a' that,
It's comin yet for a' that,
That man to man the world o'er
Shall brithers be for a' that."
(Robert Burns)
Not that I am biased, of course, but I would choose sense and worth and "a victory for optimism over pessimism, for hope over fear", to quote First Minister Salmond, welcoming the election of the 44th president of the United States, who, I dare say, would not regard the people of Scotland as "parochial" or "small-minded" for insisting upon addressing the issues of a crucial and imminent by-election which may influence the outcome of the Scottish constitutional debate, which is no small matter.
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#122
Ah, Greeting...Hier nano
The fur-ball has again locked onto his satellite of tosh.
No doubt from the ship of taintness, he will
proceed to confuse us.
Not the son of David, but an Ailen of small proportion. What news has thee, thy little
creature.
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#97. Jeremiad
Jeremiad, you despair about posters on this site. They're parochial for talking about local politics here. Well, perhaps you should reflect on your own posts?
Have you mentioned the crisis in central Africa in any of your posts?
Have you mentioned the problems in the Caucasus?
Have you talked about the Russians planning a new missile system directed at Europe?
Just a few of the reasonably major issues you've failed to post on.
Before you tackle me on my posts, I really don't care and nor will any one else. Just don't point a waggy finger unless you want one pointed back. =:o(~
As for Obama: my tippence worth. He's a vacuous showman, a US Tony Blair. He has no concrete programme, no specific targets, no "s.m.a.r.t" deliverables. He opposed the Iraq war? So what. Listen to what he says about Americas role in the world and his protectionist dog whistling.
The fact that he happens to be black is entirley irrelevant. Was Maggie Thatchers election a break through for women? The professional black political elite hate him with a vengeance (Jesse Jackson threated to cut his privates off).
Hope? Change? Absolute meaningless twaddle...and don't get me started about Bob the Builder..."We can fix it".
Oh, and the only good thing about McCain is his chips.
Bah humbug!
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#116 Neil_Small147
I suspect that sneckedagain wasn't referring to some ethnic link between Obama and William the Lion!.
If he was then the closer ethnicity of Scots-Irish McCain would be a dangerous precedent.
Any party with an agenda that concentrates on "hope and change" as opposed to "feart and status quo" will hope for an Obama spinoff in fewer people responding to the "feart" message.
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#97 Jeremaid - Imagine that, a Scots Political blog and what are posters discussing? Scots Politics. How dare they. How insular and backward are they? They should forget there's a Scots election today and be discussing the results of a foreign country which will only indirectly effect Scotland after it's been filtered via Westminster.
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#103 amicusalba - except Salmond didn't claim him as a Scot, he was merely echoing Obama's own claim in a tongue-in-cheek way (Salmond has a tendency to invoke humour in this manner).
Instead of making Salmond look pathetic or bitter, it is those who believe Salmond was genuinely trying to claim Obama as a Scot that display those traits.
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#121 DerekBarking - You want an explanation of how democracy works?
At it's most basic level, an MP representing a group of people with particular views takes those views to parliament. MPs will make motions, vote on those motions and pass laws depending on the outcome of the votes. Each MP should vote as per the views of his constituents, although in our imperfect system MPs tend to vote along party lines.
Now, in the UK, constitutional powers are a reserved matter and Scotland can only be given more power at the behest of Westminster. If there are no MPs at Westminster who support independence, the issue will not be raised in the house. If there are an increasingly larger body of MPs who do support independence, there is a greater chance that time will be made available to discuss greater powers for Scotland.
Now, I've tried to keep the explanation as simple as possible (I suspect you're a Nu-Lab supporter) but feel free to ask questions if you still don't grasp the concept of MPs going to parliament to support their constituents and vote on matters that effect their consituents.
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Aye' A sense of worth
A' pride of false gold.
To lead a nation' with one aspiration
O' Independence.
The leader considers himself to important
He is on no donkey and he is offering no
promised land.
Again the snp have hijacked politics and real people for fields of Flanders, dead hope?
I want people to have a choice that makes the change in their living, not some very rich ca'd a' lord offering a very expensive identity
card?
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#122 Greetings_Earthlings
It may be that your babel fish found difficulty in dealing with the Fife voice patterns (which seems reasonable), or that Fifers have decided to save energy by reducing their syllable output, but in my day these towns were called Waster Ainster and Aister Ainster.
If you wish to stroll up the path on the Lomonds, you'll find a concrete block which covers the entrance to the WWII bunker from which resistance to the invader was to be organised.
However, the American grey squirrels wisely decided to delay their invasion until after the defences had been dismantled.
You will have noted that some on this blog are associating ethnicity with the human conflicts. From your Pimploid perspective, you will have realised that they were confusing humans with squirrels (which is also perfectly reasonable given human banking habits).
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#124 irnbru_addict
"don't get me started about Bob the Builder"
On a point of total irrelevance, there's an "arc of language".
In Sweden, Bob the Builder is known as "Biggar Bob" - who rabbiehippo probably knows!
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120. At 00:06am on 06 Nov 2008, derekbarker wrote:
#114
Dont you think AS should have been in parliament rather than Glenrothes dealing with a very serious situation (the banking crisis)
Or do you think its ok for the FM to travel daily to Glenrothes at the cost of the tax payer considering the cost of security and government cars.
Or are the nats just simply a one man party wagon, that cant survive without the FM being there on a daily bases?
--------------------------------------------------------
so you don't think its appropriate that gordon brown should be ( i was going to say canvassing ) attending meetings of hand picked voters in glenrothes when he has to lead way to the solution for the world financial crisis.
it must be costing a fortune to travel back and forward from glenrothes to the middle east with his six or seven gun totting henchmen that assault people on crutches, and of course he has to carry his very large begging bowl as well. it must be costing the UK taxpayers a fortune.
in glenrothes its please vote for my party as we are the deaf listening party.
in saudi arabia it please can i have more money as i wasted all the UKs money.
of course he had a few days of , but that all right, he used his wife in his place, but thats OK as he will never use his family for political gain.
derek, why do you not just give up and support a socialist party, and not the right wing nulab party.
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#128
If your crowning glory lies within the want for Independence, then why do you consider a nationalist sitting in an English parliament
a progressive move of principle.
Sinn Fien had several MP's none choose to take their seats in the house of commons.
I guess there is no principles among those
who say one thing and do the other.
Is it right that the FM still gets an MP wage
or is that nationalist principles at work again?
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Derek Barker?
Can we fix him?
.....I sincerely doubt it.....
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#130 oldnat
You are right, of course.
Absolutely my impression that the two parts of Ainster are/were Anstruther Wester and Anstruther Easter and their vowel-twisting spoken variants, but in all spoken language there is, of course, variation within a speech community even within a single period and certainly from one period to another, not to mention inconsistency within the speech habits of individuals. So the shorter form that I gave is/was also found, I believe, as a matter of interest.
I note your remarks on banking and squirrels, which I shall squirrel away for future reference.
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#133 derekbarker
2Is it right that the FM still gets an MP wage"
No.
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#134
Are you happy that your leader cant lead and chose to repeat some-one elses work?
Hey, hang on, in a few months time the press will have a field day with that one?
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#135 Greetings_Earthlings
"inconsistency within the speech habits of individuals"
In human society it is not considered appropriate to mock the afflicted. Hence, on derekbarker's behalf, I have to protest your alien insensitivity to our customs (and probably our Excise as well).
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133. At 01:26am on 06 Nov 2008, derekbarker wrote:
#128
If your crowning glory lies within the want for Independence, then why do you consider a nationalist sitting in an English parliament
a progressive move of principle.
Sinn Fien had several MP's none choose to take their seats in the house of commons.
I guess there is no principles among those
who say one thing and do the other.
Is it right that the FM still gets an MP wage
or is that nationalist principles at work again?
--------------------------------------------------------
as only some of the powers have been devolved to the scottish parliament, then it appropriate that the SNP have representation at westminster to debate and vote on issues that involve scotland.
sinn fien were not allowed to take their seat in westminster due to the fact that they would not swear allegiance to the queen.
alex salmond donates the extra pay that he receives to a charity set up in aberdeen in his deceaced mothers name to help aberdonians.
but then again donald dewar as far as i know pocketed his extra pay.
so we now know that nulab have no principles and are deeply involved in slease,
one million for a lordship.
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With all this talk of change, will it lead to the voters in Glenrothes consistently changing their minds?
Maybe the superior "ALIEN" thinks there will
be a chop and change effect.
loaded with his cheap goods, he's probably
off, on another quest.
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#139
What issue do you refer too?
Does the Scottish parliament seek a referendum on Independence before 2010?
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#139
Ah, so the snp MP's swear allegiance to the UK government, are they just part-time nationalist then?
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#138 oldnat
Wicked.
Toodoothenoo.
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#142 derekbarker
"Ah, so the snp MP's swear allegiance to the UK government"
You really do need help. No MP swears allegiance to "the UK Government". They do take an oath of allegiance to the monarch.
Or do you imagine that Gordon Brown is the Queen? - I don't think he'd suit her dress style!
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141. At 02:04am on 06 Nov 2008, derekbarker.
142. At 02:10am on 06 Nov 2008, derekbarker.
here,s the dohnut questions again.
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#145
Well, thats awful nice of the FM to donate
to a charity in his mothers name.
Do you think its a good idea if we all get
a second income that we could donate
to our lost relatives.
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#144
So what does that allegiance consist of?
Is the queen the head of the UK government, or just the English government?
I'm surprised a former history teacher is so naive!
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So the legal position on the snp MP's who wish to breach their allegiance to the queen
by seeking an Independent Scotland,would be automatic removal from the house of commons.(in breach of allegiance or even treason)
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#147 derekbarker
And there was me thinking you were an old-fashioned socialist.
You seem to be an 17th century monarchist, or simply ignorant (the latter seems more likely).
No. Lizzie is not "the head of the UK government", she is the "Head of State" of the UK and many countries in the Commonwealth.
If you don't even understand the constitutional basis of the state that you want us all to support, then your postings are increasingly irrelevant to reality.
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#148 derekbarker
Go to bed before you embarass yourself even more.
You clearly don't understand the constitution that you want us all to support.
You will be seriously embarrassed by your recent postings when the effects wear off.
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#150
Oldnat, cant let you away with that pathetic excuse and here was me thinking you had an element of education.
So we have a nationalist that believes in the frame work of the UK, however he(oldnat) a former history teacher? thinks that any one who swears an oath of allegiance to the queen as a member of the Uk parliament, also has the legal right to separate that parliament through a proposed bill of Independence.
You simply cant answer the question and revert to nationalist attack mode, shame on you.
So if Scotland does separate from the UK it still has the queen as her monarch.
So who is the one that is advocating 16th and 17th century rule?
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#150
If the snp wish to persue their course of an Independent Scotland, then why set a date for 2010, surely it's illogical for a nationalist party to wait 4 years before it persue's it flagship policy.
Or is not the case that the act of separation
is complex and an enigma, that would be shrouded in legal debate for at least 50 years?
Will you simply continue to tell the public
that Scotland has the right to self rule when ever it decides too do so?
Not to mention the fact that the opinion polls suggest that there is no mandate for Independence, Wow oldnat, send nationalist MP's to westminster, what for?
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#152, derekbarker wrote:
"Will you simply continue to tell the public
that Scotland has the right to self rule when ever it decides too do so?"
Sounds good to me.
Government of the people, by the people, for the people.
The world will little note, nor long remember, what we say here.
The great task remaining before us - that this nation shall have a new birth of freedom.
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Just by way of a mild diversion its worth pointing out that political spin has always been with us.
The popular heroes of Scotland's original war for independence are William Wallace and Robert de Brus. As an earlier poster commented one was of "Welsh" origin while the other was half French and half something else from north of the border.
In reality Wallace was a pretty minor character who couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag - as he proved at Falkirk. The real hero who actually won at Stirling Brig was Andrew de Moray, the nephew of the Red Comyn(Cumming). Therefore when Brus, having changed sides a couple of times and won a civil war against the northern Scots, before doing Bannockburn, got his court historians to do the needful, young Moray/Comyn (conveniently dead) was written out of the story and Wallace as a Stewart and therefore Brus vassal was elevated as saviour of the nation in his place.
The moral of the tale? History is always written by the winners and whatever you do never trust the Lanarkshire/Ayrshire Mafia, however they dress themselves up as the champions of "the people"
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Thats us been up and running for 30 mins now, only another 12 and a half hours till the poles close!
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Someone is getting rather fidgety in their panic about the election. It seems a shame that this person is determined to get their point over about the UK government versus the Scottish Paliament (but I believe he called it the English Parliament. Nice of him to admit this.) but does not understand that it cannot be treason if the Scottish parliament agrees to have the Queen as head of State for Scotland. It may also have come to the attention of this poster that Independence would have to be granted by an Act of Parliament in the UK parliament. I cannot envisage Scotland just declaring itself independent but, on the other hand, I cannot see the UK parliament not granting Scotland its independence if that was the will of the people after a referendum. They may bluster about the legalities of the referendum but would have to back down because of the international shame if they didn't.
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I listened intently to both Obama and McCain give their respective speeches at the end of the campaign. I was very impressed with McCain who was magnanimous in defeat and Obama who was humble in victory. These gentlemen showed their true colours and what a pity one of them had to lose. America can be proud of both candidates for the professional way in which they conducted themselves in front of the world media, our politicians should take a leaf out of their book. I hope Gordon Brown and his party colleagues were watching as they could not fail to be impressed by the standards and character of both these politicians.
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157
Point well made, both were excellent.
Compare and contrast Brown and Blair's behaviour when the SNP won the Scottish National Elections in May 2007.
Bad losers in every respect, unable to congratulate the first nationalist government in Scotland in modern times.
Brown and sulking, bad manners and truculent behaviour are known to most in his party and the media.
So sadly, Brown and his Regional Scottish party colleagues will have been completely oblivious to the standards and character of McCain and Obama. It's not in Labour's nature!
A McG
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Brian, whilst I didn't appreciate that US elections (and indeed the Glenrothes by-election) are bigger stories than humble local council by-elections, I was surprised to find no mention of either the Edinburgh Forth by-election or Glasgow council by-election taking place today. I've had a quick scout around and can find no mention anywhere on the BBC. Surely worthy of a brief story, no?
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#133 derekbarker
I have many issues with Sinn Fein, but their MPs don't sit in The UK Parliament because of their principled stand of refusing to dissemble by taking an oath to a sovereign they do not accept as their legitimate overlord. In that respect, they're more honest than most politicians.
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Re 153
What is this freedom that you speak of?
Replacing domination of the Highlands form Westminster with Domination from Edinburgh.
It seems all the same to me, won't improve my life.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
The election result is probably more about the electorates judgement on the failed Bush doctrines. Obama will not have long to prove himself - the media and the lunatic fringes of American society will see to that!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
It seems that the mods are also bored with Brownedov's lengthy non-posts.
Every post has been displayed except his!
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Just to add to post 154. William Wallace was a Strathclyde Briton ( Dum Barton means the "britons fort") and an area which stretched from the Clyde to Cornwall was the homeland of these cymric or british peoples who now dominate Wales. Robert the Bruce's mother was a gallgael (gaelic speaking mixed erse mixed norse) from what we now know as Galloway. His norman antecedents (who came to Normandy from Scandanavia) were from Brus. Everybody in Scotland and every where else came from somewhere else if we go back far enough.
Which is wonderful - and makes the continued survival of the "Scotland the nation" concept a thing of genuine wonder and worth and well worth tramping the steets and lanes of Fife for.
Can we get some help to derekbarker?
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Re #165 : Reluctant-Expat
……..more desperate (spelling corrected), more insular, more ignorant or more bitter……….. It's as if there isn't a world outside their bedrooms.
Pot, kettle, black ……….
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#165 Reluctant- Expat
Strange comment from an individual who has contributed 10 times in less than 24 hours.
Now, what was that saying about empty vessels?
Wansanshoo.
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ECONOMIST V HISTORIAN
salmond says put liquidity into banks.
thee weeks later brown put liquidity into banks.
salmond say cut interest rates by a min. 1%.
three weeks later brown cuts interest rates by 1.5%.
gordon brown your history.
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#168 Reluctant-Expat
"It seems that the mods are also bored with Brownedov's lengthy non-posts."
Funnily enough, they're all short, but I should have remembered from polling day at Glasgow East that auntie has Special House Rules During Election Periods which everyone should read before posting a comment about today's election.
In particular, they state: "In line with the political parties and other UK broadcasters, the BBC will not be reporting the election campaign or offering discussion about the campaign on any of its outlets while the polls are open. The message boards will remain open on Polling Day, but users must refrain from discussing the election while the polls are open. Usual BBC House Rules will resume once the polls are closed."
There won't be much relevant to today that can be said before 22:00 GMT, so why not do some homework on putting your OECD graghic into some kind of meaningful context?
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#171 expat reminds me of the comedian Frank Carson with his quick fire blogs.....it's the way he tells em, that's a cracker so it is.........It's not what expat say's it's the way he says it that speaks volumes about him. If expat is an example of all that is fine and just in the union then I'd vote for independence tomorrow.
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#173 Brownedov
Thanks for the reminder on Election Day Rules on the blog.
At the time of the Glasgow East contest, the blog had to be shut down because few of us knew about the rule.
Tom Devine is reported in the Herald as debunking some of the myths in Scottish History.
SNP MSP Christine Grahame added: "Tom Devine has his own perspective on Scottish history but I disagree with him that there is a victim mentality' to popular perceptions of history in Scotland.
"Many commentators will of course be uncomfortable with looking at aspects of Scottish history as they recognise that most of that history subverts the unionist agenda both past and present."
The SNP should give serious thought to muzzling Christine Grahame. The woman seems to have no understanding of History at all.
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Will Obama's spirit of internationalism lead to increased cooperation between the intelligence services either side of the pond? It might help us catch some of these ne'er do wells. I wonder if any of them are reluctantly exiled in Spain, scratching around for ways to pass the times of tedium that afflict them...?
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#176 oldnat
You're welcome, of course, and I must have been having a senior moment when I posted a few early links to media articles which would be mild on any other day.
To be fair to myself, the election day rules are buried more deeply than I recall them being at the time of Glasgow East, and I had to resort to Google to find them.
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Wow - perhaps temporarily I seem to have acquired a copy of pattymkirkwood's gold card on the one day when it's of little use!
Is anyone else getting #dnaacs on the end of the URL after posting without an error being recorded?
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#154 ah Derek it's alll so clear now from your post, we should all simply give up and vote Labour.......forever.
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They seem to be able to discuss the unmentionable in bits on NR's blog
#176 oldnat
"Many commentators will of course be uncomfortable with looking at aspects of Scottish history as they recognise that most of that history subverts the unionist agenda both past and present."
It doesn't help at all does it. You'd be hard pressed to spin lots of Scotland's history as part of the Union in this way, a daft comment. In fact its much more likely to be the opposite case, which is exactly what Tom Devine was saying, that there are parts of Scottish history some choose to either ignore completely or portray in an unrealistic light.
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#179
I did for my #180, and I'll see again if it does for this post?!
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UK rates are now 3% and expected to fall further.
Eurozone rates are now 3.25%
And there goes Salmond's solitary argument for Scotland joining the Euro....along with every other argument he's ever made.
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Most of them fit this mold. Three little words so hard to say. also applies to our two resident trolls who know everything about everything.
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#184
Reluctant- Expat
Coludn't agree more, the sad thing is, it will
have no effect on a very ridiculous mob, their arrogance is unprecedented.
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I'm sorry but I cannot resist this:
Alex Salmond in February 2008:
"The Scottish banks are amongst the most stable financial insititutions in the world."
Quote from Private Eye, and to be fair they go for everyone.
I'm quite sure there are many more in a similar vein by Gordon Brown.
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I wonder it the nats have thought about a new name, other than nationalist party.
I sure oldnat and co, would be happy with something like the "ROYALISY" party?
Obviously not republicans!
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Re #184 and your trained monkey on #186
Do you guys have no grip on finance?
How is the drop of 1.5% in BoE rate which will not be passed on in full to the public by the banks of any significance.
If our prices are rising faster than the eurozone and our currency is dropping against the euro, how is a 0.25% lower base rate helping?
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187. Don't forget the Weeble's Apr 2007 demand for less banking regulation!
He's an 'economist', you know!
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#187 Neil_Small147
Politicians should be punctured at regular intervals with their own words!
#185 cynicalHighlander
Now how did you manage to get this lovely piece sandwiched between other comments so appropriately?
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#184 & 185
Dumb and Dumber decried Eck for daring to ask for reduced interest rates two weeks ago!
Now that its happened they are crying fould and ignoring the fact that Eck was
a) right
b) right
and
c) right
How long until they work out that no matter how many times they change their viewpoint they will always be wrong?
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#189 bloggger
I think you have to apply Expat's "fiscal rules" to understand his conclusion.
Eurozone rates -------- 3.25%
Bank of England rate - 3%
When you add them together, you get 6.25%, so he thinks we can't join the euro.
However, expect this particular bit of nonsense to disappear when the ECB cuts its rate later today as Forex is predicting.
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#184 Reluctant-Expat
#190 Reluctant-Expat
Consecutive partisan posts from you, I see, which are clearly against the special polling day house rules:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/messageboards/newguide/elections.shtml
Are you trying to get this thread closed down until polling closes at 22:00?
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#193
It's a no brainer oldnat............................
Thank god! we are not applying Salmond
"fiscal rules" Iceland anyone!
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ditherer brown plays follow my leader.
now i know why the nulab party has so many lady MPs, its so that gordon brown can hide behind their skirts.
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One thing that Barack Obama and Alex Salmond have in common is that they have encouraged previously uninterested people to vote. After over 10 years off the electoral roll as a member of the apathy party, I have got myself registered to vote. I work away from home much of the time but if and when we have a referendum I want to be able to say that I did not abstain, but made a 200 mile round trip to vote NO.
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#195 derekbarker
"It's a no brainer oldnat"
Which, of course, makes you uniquely qualified to comment, Derek.
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I imagine few on this blog support the idea of ID cards. The rest of us might enjoy the story that Guido has.
Expect to see Jacqui Smith's fingerprints on everything!
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#199
Jeez, the Swiz watch hand (Brownedov)
what chocolate time are you advocating today!
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#191 oldnat
With a name like thisCaptain Fantastic Faster Than Superman Spiderman Batman Wolverine The Hulk And The Flash Combined how could I fail.
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#117 - can you translate the poem please?
#120 - yes, they are - he makes all the decisions, despite the plethora of flunkies he has at his beck and call.
#127 - amicusalba got it right - he IS bitter, and not a little ridiculous. And made many of us cringe with his sucking up to Obama before he's even in the White House! His so-called sense of humour is a liability - he should reign it in.
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#200
Oldnat, ID cards, your so stupid! you talk about ID cards when the snp want to give the people of Scotland the biggest expensive Identity card ever! "INDEPENDENCE"
Do you just react, without thought!
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Miliband on Radio 4 today -
"I think that governments do have to stand for change. A government that stands for the status quo is obviously not going to be re-elected."
No comment necessary.
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I wonder if anyone has followed the odds on a certain Irish bookmaker's site today? Since this morning they have shown a steady improvement on a particular topic, if you catch my drift...
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Jeez, is Brownedov referring posts to the mods again? Does he think HE is a moderator?
I've heard of Walter Mitty-types pretending to be policemen or something military.....but a blog moderator?
What a terribly sad little man he is.
Not that I have anything against mods, some of my best friends are mods.
(Could someone else please explain to the nationalists what a 'friend' is? Many thanks.)
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#203 GlasgowGooner
It is clearly not appropriate for English residents of Scotland to expect anything in Scots to be translated for them. It is for them to make the effort to understand.
Get yourself a Scots dictionary.
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#203 GlasgowGooner
"can you translate the poem please?"
Not a problem. I've translated it into Labour for you.
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Can any rely on the evidence the same cheeks of one back-side (Brownedov oldnat)
give, when Reluctant Expat has clearly shown the evidence they give is out-dated.
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#133 Derek Barking - What English parliament? Check these blogs (and countless others) and you'll find many posters from south of the border lamenting the very fact that such an entity doesn't exist.
Ken, that place in Westminster, where a' they chuckies sit 'n flap 'n make a wad a' noise - that's the UK Parliament, that is.
Whilst that's the case, and the UK Parliament holds control of Scotland's constitutional powers (amongst others), it's only right that the people of Scotland send the person they believe best represents their interests to it.
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#209
Wow! under pressure oldnat, that was
dreadful!
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#145 - Derek Barking.
Parliamentary rules state that Salmond MUST take his MP pay. That's the same rules that made Phony B.Liar and his cabinet cronies take their full pay increase despite his public declarations that they would only take part of they pay increase.
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#152 Derek Barking - What government, of any ilk, takes its complex key policy and presents it to the people in a referendum without taking the time to explore and explain all the ramifications it involves?
Of course the SNP are taking their time before presenting their policy, they'd be mad not to, but perhaps not as mad as those (like bendy Wendy) who expect them to do so right away.
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#207 Reluctant-Expat
I would think it a pity to refer most of your posts because they are such a shining light to us all. I have never referred a post of yours which made reference to me or a post of mine.
Currently you seem to be playing a game of "chicken" to see quite how you close you can get to breaking the special house rules and still have your posts stand, but not always getting away with it - I didn't manage to see your #165.
That so many of your posts survive is a tribute to the moderation of others on this blog.
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#120
do you think its ok for the FM to travel daily to Glenrothes at the cost of the tax payer considering the cost of security and government cars.
---------------------------------------
Same can be applied to Brown, his wife and dont forget 2 jags prescot ,i suppose they bought there own flight tickets or train tickets from London at they`re expence, oh! and there security.Granted not daily but still mounts up, oh! i almost forgot Prescots hotel bill to.
Think not!!!!mon the SNP
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#211
O' JO' the whole 7 snp MP's.
I think you will find that the labour party has more Scottish MP's in westminster than the snp have!
Do you want to argue against that also?
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The unionist trolls are fair churning it in frantic support of their cause. There must be up to four of them blogging on the current threads!
Such numbers are reminiscent of a certain party's campaign 'across the water', where a rumour has it the campaign HQ is a phone box!
That being the case, it would be the perfect size and colour!
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#215
No need to become an apologist Brownedov. Jeez!
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#217 - Derek (completely) barking:
So, your argument is that because Labour currently have more MPs than the SNP, the SNP should just concede defeat and let Labour win the election?
Is it just in Scottish elections that this rule applies or should Call-me-Dave tell his troops to stand down because Nu-Lab have more MPs than the tories?
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#218Dougie-Dubh
"The unionist trolls are fair churning it in frantic support of their cause. There must be up to four of them blogging on the current threads!"
Big assumption that they are 4 different people. One Tory on NR's site forgot to change his user name before he responded to one of his earlier posts, saying how much he agreed.
Our troll just says "Jeez" - whatever name he's using.
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Re #210 Derekbarker
... Can any rely on the evidence the same cheeks of one back-side give .....
Copying other people's witty lines from other blogs to try to make yourself look smarter than you are eh? tut, tut - I know where you've been !!!
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Derek ...... now you be nice now .... you only play up when RE is in full flow. SNP baiting is not a good thing to do tonight ........ i daresay a lot of us will be on here to find out the Glenrothes results .... im even drinkin Mcewens export as i feel extra Scottish the night .....
Malicious postings ...... i had a post removed cos i accused a certain leader of being dour.....
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218. "The UNIONIST trolls are fair churning it in frantic support of their cause."???
Dougie-Dubh, oldnat, Brownedov, jammykev, ForteanJo, Briggen, Forfar-Loon, ripvanwinkle.....
LOL!
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I'd say the SNP more closely resemble the Republicans than Obama's democrats. They're both up against media bias (according to themselves). Sarah Palin's attitude toward the 'Pro-American' parts of America is reminiscent of the nationalist attitude to the 'unionists'.
Brown's no Obama, of course. He's a dreary technocrat leading a party that's little more than an outgrowth of the state bureaucracy.
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#221 Jeez.....well spotted oldnat, imagine reluctant expat cloning himself as Dolly the sheep.... oops sorry I mean cloning himself as derekbarker, one wonders how many other id's he has squirreled away.
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# 124 irnbru_addict
You wonder why I don't post on the siting of Russian missiles or the situation in Africa, I assume you mean the Congo. The reason is quite simple - these matters are very complicated and would require a degree of knowledge and sophistication which I have seen very little evidence of on this blog. In fairness I believe oldnat and Brownedov could probably grasp the implications of my analysis, maybe yourself and who knows probably Greetings Earthling, but not many others.
To give you an example, that actually appears on this thread, derek barker appears to have some difficulty distinguishing between a state and a nation, and whilst he may be familiar with the term nation-state, it is doubtful if he understands exactly what the implications of the term are. Similarly, the idea that most countries in Europe including Russia, far from being nation-states are in fact state-nations might increase his incomprehension.
What has to be understood is what came first? The state or the nation and how did either adapt to their unique circumstances.
Doubtless, oldnat and Brownedov will want references, so here they come. But please understand this stuff is not easy.
Union of the Crowns 1603
Treaty of Westphalia 1648
Act of Union 1707
Congress of Vienna 1815
Schleswig-Holstein Question 1840 et al.
Reich Authority Constitution 1849
U.S. Supreme Court vs Cherokee Nation
Conversion of Habsburg Empire to Austro-Hungarian Empire 1867
Treatry of Versailles 1920
Locarno Pact 1925
You might also ask yourself the following question to clarify your understanding:- Are the United States really states within the European sense of the term?
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#221 Funny that having 2 sign in names ... i remember RE not long ago accusing the nationalists of such a thing.... Regarding Derek on a recent blog he replied to a post before it passed moderation as if he knew what the contents were which leads me to believe that he is a mod himself..... not to say some of our nationalist bloggers are not mods to but is this not a case of keeping yourself in a job !!!!
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Just checked the STV site and found they've delayed the start time of their coverage tonight by an hour. Should be streamed on their website from just before 23:40.
Still no sign of any specific BBC TV coverage but Radio Scotland should have it via the iPlayer.
Links are in my #47 which was referred but is now back.
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#223
On the Booze already Rabbie.
Wow" to infinity and beyond" Buzz oldnat.
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Oh dear, looks like the IMF are predicting the UK to experience the worst recession out of any of the advanced economies (World Economic Outlook Update)...
2009 projected GDP growth (%) estimates:
Advanced economies: -0.3
US: -0.7
Euro area: -0.5
Germany: -0.8
France: -0.5
Italy: -0.6
Spain: -0.7
Japan: -0.2
UK: -1.3
Canada: +0.3
Other advanced economies: +1.5
I guess that explains the 1.5% BoE interest rate cut today. Hopefully it will improve the gloomy looking figures above.
#229 Brownedov: I think BBC2 Scotland have a Glenrothes special after the polls close tonight.
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#213
I can remember having a conversation with a certain Kieth Stranding(national regional officer GMB) way back in the late 80's, at that time the tories were still in government and needless to say unemployment was very high, So the nature of the conversation consisted of employment.
At that time Kieth was calling for the membership of the GMB to reserve their right to work OT, in the knowledge that employees would have to increase employment numbers to satisfy their customers needs (production figures)
So the moral of this point is! although there is such a thing as job share and working in some situations, there remains a principle point.
That Is if you cant commit to your job, ie, Alex Salmond's MP position, then why doesn't he resign that seat and let someone else do the job.
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C'mon SNP - help the people of Glenrothes get these fearmongers, liars and warmongers OUT!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ey-5ymkm784&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NwHdzcJeaGw
Need any other reason to bury this awful anti-Scottish London led rogues?
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On the subject of the PM using taxpayer's money to travel to Glenrothes etc - which annoys me since it should come out of Labour Party funds:
Do you know that the Scottish Government has lovely, nice shiny new cars of a German origin?
So much for helping the UK economy.......
Back to Glenrothes........this blog is sure going to get interesting over the weekend.
SNP win - stand by for the "no mandate for Labour to rule" etc etc followed by the usual utopian rubbish from the nationalist trolls. (not you oldnat of course)
Labour win - stand by for the "Gordon Brown leading Labour to recovery" and " Alex Salmond finished" rubbish from the unionist trolls.
Lib Dem/Tory win - both sides will argue that it is THEIR policies that the Lib Dems have adopted.
Cynical but what the hell, it's Thursday.
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#230 Aye Derek ... havein a few tinnies as im off work for 5 days ... relaxin ...well till mrs hippo puts me to good use .. good luck wi your candidate ... but after seein him on video .. id say he would be a waste of time ... cheers
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#227 Jeremiad
An interesting analyst, I may snap at the bait.
The state nation, "no representation without taxation" I surprised you missed that one, however the state nation maybe a
motion you refer to as corruption, that the state imposes onto the nation.
You clearly choose your words carefully! and the union of the crowns seem to have been a defining moment in history, then again I'm sure you would agree all moments in history seem to be defining and reactionist moments.
I think your are leaning to heavily towards
the idea of federalism, by your own implication, that the state is a wider part of the nation.
Anyway, I wish you good luck, peace and understanding and hope you were delighted
that the first black president of the America's was elected.
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Now that the polls have closed, the special rules should be off. On these threads, today's Press and Journal quotes Salmond in their Labour’s big-hitter takes a swipe at Salmond 'the cheeky chappie': "In a tight contest, people will choose the positive over the negative. Labour's campaign has been negative scaremongering. Our entire campaign has been positive about the future, and people will choose the positive."
Pretty apposite to this blog too, I suggest - win lose or draw.
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Oops - the system clocks on the BBC network are wrong according to the atomic clock. #237 was definitely posted after 22:00 GMT.
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My prediction for tonight -
On TV, a bunch of party hacks trying to minimise the damage/exaggerate their victory.
Grant or Roy will lose their current position of authority, where they can do some good, to waste their time in Westminster.
The big political shift happened between 2005 and 2007.
Has this changed? Has either the SNP or Labour moved from their roughly equal share of the votes in Glenrothes?
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#238 The atomic clock is wrong ... RE will blame Alex Salmond lol .... Brownedov you fairly seem to have a greencard on here jumping in front with posts
#234 Neil can you suggest some UK made cars for them to buy instead. ?
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#231 forfar-loon
Us expats can't watch BBC TV on the iPlayer, but before I posted my #229 I checked on the website and there was nothing showing after Newsnight Scotland. Obviously if you have access to BBC TV signals, you'll know better than I.
I'll hope to be watching STV with the Radio Scotland stream as a back-up.
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#237
The snp campaign has been positive.
No, thats wrong, today at one of the polling station's the police were called to deal with snp campaigners who were giving disabled people a hard time for handing out leaflets,
asking people not to vote for the snp.
Do you call picking on disabled people positive? Brownedov!
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Brownedov .... mebbe you should have sent in some UN soldiers into Glasgow last night after the Celtic / Man U game ... was like a warzone .... drunks fighting with the police in City Centre lol ... thanks for the link to STV i have it on another window ..
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#241 Brownedov: my shiny Sky+ box tells me that Newsnight Scotland is a Glenrothes by-election special from 11pm-4am.
BTW that gold card of yours seems to be working well!
Re my own #206: Paddy Power odds this morning had SNP at 1-3, Labour at 2-1. By 4:45pm they were SNP at 1-7 and Labour at 5-1. I hope they (and Glenrothes) know what they're doing!
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#241, Brownedov
Newsnight Scotland is a by-election special, running from 23:00 - 04:00.
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The Grauniad have a live blogger at the count:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2008/nov/06/glenrothes-byelections-labour-snp
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2 beautiful snippets from the 10:15 entry:
The turn-out could be 48%.
It started raining very heavily in the early evening. "Even Gordon Brown wouldn't go out to vote on an evening like this," said a colleague.
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Turnout 48% according to radio!
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Further to my #245 and Brownedov's #241,
Radio Scotland's by-election programme apparently runs from 22:30-05:00, but I don't know whether this is accessible outwith the UK.
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Grauniad Blog: 10.45am: Mike Russell, the SNP environment minister at Holyrood, tells Radio Scotland that there's "cautious optimism" in the SNP camp.
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240. Heavens, you are interesting.
And look at you all, so very excited about a small election in which Labour were always guaranteed a hammering.
I look forward to later reading how this is 'absolute' 'confirmation' of the 'undeniable' 'fact' that 'independence is inevitable' (despite every shred of evidence suggesting precisely the opposite) and is totally unrelated to any unpopularity of a beleaguered government that has been in power for 11 years.
I wish I could hang around to watch the inevitable mass hysteria unfold. I really do.
Enjoy your collective squelchy moment, y'all!
Hugs.
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#242 derekbarker
If true I agree it doesn't sound good. Maybe there'll be more detail tomorrow.
#243 rabbiehippo
You're welcome. Blue helmets aren't my agrency - for all I know we just supply the paint.
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#244 forfar-loon
Thanks for the info. One disadvantage of Switzerland is that they don't like untidy Sky dishes so you usually have to subscribe to cable.
I'd have considered a few bob on NuLab at those odds.
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#251 Reluctant-Expat
"And look at you all, so very excited about a small election in which Labour were always guaranteed a hammering."
Think positive RE, your lot haven't lost yet and 48% is a pretty high turnout for such an old roll.
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Well goodnight folks .... wife wants me in bed to cuddle up to .... but i get the tv on ... newsnight lol .... how romantic ...
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It would seem that turn-out was nearer to 53% Brownedov!
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Far to early yet, but hows that chocolate watch Brownedov, I see your friend oldnat has jumped the gun on the new thread, by declaring he has given up his lid/dem card?
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