Less than wonderful
It is not, in truth, the direct responsibility of Iain Gray.
However, it's less than wonderful news for him, either. Business at his local Labour Party has been suspended.
It's all the result of a stand off between East Lothian Constituency and the party's National Executive Committee over the reselection of Anne Moffat MP.
For me, it also revives the issue of the internal voting system within the Labour Party.
You may recall my offering a few cheeky comments anent that topic at the time of the election of Mr Gray as leader.
To recap, briefly. Anne Moffat, it would appear, is not universally popular in her constituency of East Lothian.
As is customary, she was up for reselection in July last year.
'Anomoly' probe
The choice facing party sections was whether to endorse her automatically - or whether to back an open selection in which the sitting MP would be on the shortlist.
Only two branches out of six backed her for automatic endorsement. As I understand it, three branches wanted an open choice and the largest branch, Prestonpans, was divided 50/50.
Despite that division, she was adopted on the back of votes by affiliates, principally trades unions.
Following objections, an investigation was held by Lesley Quinn, then the party's chief officer in Scotland. She reported "anomalies" in the process.
The matter was referred to the NEC who upheld the selection procedure. Further protests ensued and the NEC has now decided that, pending resolution, the local party is suspended.
I am told from East Lothian that there is "great unhappiness" and a "lingering sense of injustice" that constituency opinion has, arguably, been ignored.
The alternative perspective is that it is standard procedure to suspend where there is a dispute - and that this will be settled in a comradely fashion.
We shall see.
I'm 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~02~RS~)
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It is not unknown for the dead to vote in Labour party selection process, sometimes more than once.
I wonder if a certain Mr. K Hardie ended up voting for Anne Moffat?
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The very definition of 'London Labour' it seems.
Mr Gray doesn'y even seem to have an opinion on it remarkably enough! This is a matter for the 'party at national level' and all that ... gone are the days of his pretence of leadership in Scotland.
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The Herald has linked this to her huge travel claim after the election.
"When I was first elected I wanted to establish myself and impress some of the people who did not want me there in the first place, " she said, adding that she had "bust a gut" travelling up and down repeatedly for this reason.
In the 12-month period she spent 9792 GBP on rail fares, of which 7211 GBP was for 26 journeys between London and Scotland. She also spent 15,712 GBP on 51 air fares and still found time to claim 12,289 GBP for car mileage covering 24,129 miles.
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If the "Honourable" Lady's contribution to Westminster is typified by this intervention, then she seems too appalling for any party to stomach.
andFrom Hansard
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Might I suggest that this matter is for the Labour Party, it has no other real political significance, it happens in all political parties, there are fallible human beings involved here some of them probably suffering agonies and no matter how you design and enforce a candidate selection procedure someone, somewhere will find a way to subvert or abuse it.
And before some of the SNP contributors get on their high horses (and I am an SNP member) the SNP selection process means that any card carrying member, whether they have ever even attended a meeting or knocked a door for the party, has exactly the same vote under OMOV as the most clued up activist who works tirelessly on a continuous basis for the party - a system which is verey susceptible to manipulation.
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Is anyone surprised, this is the Labour party we're talking about. Democratic decisions were never part of their ideology. You need only look at the way Brown hung on to power ; the opposition to his taking over and remaining as prime minister was bullied into submission.
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Just read the linked article. I have been away from Scotland for quite a while, but I was staggered to read that East Lothian is Labour's largest Scottish constituency party. What does this say about the state of Labour in Scotland, if a significant part of this constituency is rural and conservative (small c)?
Isn't it also a bit worrying that healthy debate has been allowed to degenerate into a public squabble? Surely it is not beyond the wit of man for a political party to devise sensible rules that ensures this doesn't happen? If the Labour Party cannot run itself, why do they think they are fit to run a government?
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#3 oldnat,
The rail fares come out at #277 each and the air fares at #308 each. The air fares seem reasonable enough, but is that really the price of a railway ticket from Kings Cross to Waverley?
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#8 Skip NC.
I travel to London on occasion from Glasgow Central to Euston, and that is the right level for fares.
So much for getting everyone onto the trains! And it is just as quick getting the train to London as it is to fly.
But this story is not of any interest in my opinion. How political parties work their internal structures is up to them. I would suspect that all the other parties have some strange and interesting methods.
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sneckedagain and Neil_Small147,
I take the point about it being an internal party matter. politics would not be politics without healthy debate and disagreement. However, Labour seems to wash its dirty linen in public more than most parties. I think there is a difference between healthy debate and appearing to be disorganized. With this, Labour looks incapable of running its own affairs. For that reason, something like this belongs in the public domain.
Neil_Small147, thanks for the heads up on rail fares. I will bear that in mind when planning my next trip back across the Atlantic.
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Did they ever find that gang of "neds" who attacked her when she was out jogging...??
funny that going out jogging with diamond earings on...not very sensible wearing them when you excercise ...is it?
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Just another wee thought. Brian, you used the phrases "As I understand it," and "I am told." Does this mean you haven't taken a trip to the fine county of East Lothian to find out for yourself? The number 124 bus will take you to several of the branches in the county. That, in itself, will give you something to write about.
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Ah, demecracy rules.
In the utopian world 1 person = 1 vote.
In Labour world 1 person = as many votes as possible depending on how many affiliates one is a member of.
As for the travelling expenses is it little wonder that there is voter apathy.
Politicians like this make bankers look truly saintly.
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Skip_NC
In East Lothian 44% of those in employment are in public sector jobs or banking and finance. It's not your "normal" Labour constituency
I don't know what the rail fare was in 2004, but the current cost of a 1st class return rail fare can be 370 GBP (more by sleeper), so your calculation is probably correct.
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sneckedagain and Neil_Small147
Yes it's an internal party matter, and if it's simply some manipulation in one branch, then agreed - it's of no interest.
However, if the problem runs through the constituency, and if it reflects a bitter political dispute then it is worth knowing the details.
Why was there such bitter opposition to Moffat? What is the attitude of the membership to union power deciding the issue?
These are genuine political issues.
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#4 oldnat
Have you noticed that these blogs now give an error report when you screw up on HTML tags.
It is an improvement and does take some of the frustration out of using the above.
Slainte Mhath!
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Interesting that the LibDems need an 8.33% swing in East Lothian to defeat Ms Moffat (who stood in '05 as Mrs Picking). Let's all wish them well.
Should the fragrant lady win further promotion to the Portillo List, she'll slot in at No.7, a whisker behind John Hutton and nudging Jack Straw down into 8th place.
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#5, sneckedagain:
"... the SNP selection process means that any card carrying member, whether they have ever even attended a meeting or knocked a door for the party, has exactly the same vote under OMOV as the most clued up activist who works tirelessly on a continuous basis for the party - a system which is verey susceptible to manipulation."
In other words, anyone paying his/her subscription to maintain membership might conceivably try to exercise the rights conferred as a result of membership.
Oh, the horror!
Or is the suggestion that only the "clued up activists" should be entitled to vote - whether within the party, or indeed at a general election?
A slippery slope, indeed....
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#5 sneckedagain - you have a point, but were it up to the membership of the Labour Party in this constituency she would have been deselected. The undemocratic influence of the Unions and other bodies in central office's pocket 'rode to her rescue' and now it sounds like a Stalinist-style purge is underway.
Typical of the modern Labour Party to decide that the many 'ordinary people' (for Labour Party members at least) are at fault, and the single elite individual is right.
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Politicians are castigated if they only [appear to] visit their constituencies in the run-up to an election, yet here we have an MP having apparently done her utmost to be in two places at once - to the benefit of her constituents - for which she is being pilloried!
Admittedly, the invention of the telephone might have made many of her trips unnecessary.
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Brownedov
Have you had a chance to look at the section on Switzerland in the IEG Report to Calman?
I'd be interested to know what you thought of it.
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15. At 8:10pm on 19 Nov 2008, oldnat wrote:
sneckedagain and Neil_Small147
Yes it's an internal party matter, and if it's simply some manipulation in one branch, then agreed - it's of no interest.
However, if the problem runs through the constituency, and if it reflects a bitter political dispute then it is worth knowing the details.
Why was there such bitter opposition to Moffat? What is the attitude of the membership to union power deciding the issue?
These are genuine political issues.
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True, but then again every party has internal issues. Usually they are kept quiet but it is usually when in Government that things come out.
This happened with the Tories, and it will happen with the SNP at some point.
I may be wrong, but even the Green Party has some issues.
The only party that doesn't is the Monster Raving Looney Party. Maybe they should be in Government!
(wait for it.........I know.......they are already in Westminster)
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#20 The_Forfarian
Don't forget there is only so much one can carry from John Lewis to take home as they wouldn't deliver outside the home counties. Maybe labour are trying to clean up their act in the northern extremities.
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#23, cynicalHighlander
ROFL
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#22 Neil_Small147
The SNP had a selection shambles in 2003, when I understand personality issues were a major factor.
As I said, if this is just one of these, then it's of no particular interest.
However, Labour in Scotland are potentially vulnerable to internal dispute over the constitutional issue (of their own party as well as the rest of us).
Given Moffat's call to change the Scotland Act to remove the Scottish Parliament's planning powers, this might be more than just a personality dispute.
We'll see.
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11 richglasgowprincess
No word in the local press about the polis straining every sinew to catch the blackguards (especially that helpful one who was wearing a Celtic top). Shouldn't be too hard to find in Cockenzie/Port Seton.
They took the diamond earrings but were considerate enough to leave her with her mobile phone so that she could phone a friend(not the police).
"Somezing very strange 'astings"
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#11 richglasgowprincess
"funny that going out jogging with diamond earrings on...not very sensible wearing them when you exercise ...is it?"
Improbable though it may seem, this remark puts me in mind of an elderly Parisian vicountess of my acquaintance, who used to dress up in her furs and some really rather elegant jewellery to walk down the street to the nearest cafe, where she liked to spend the afternoon in the company of her smart, similarly attired, friends before making her way home, again on foot, enjoying every moment of her ostentatious display of personal wealth.
An irreproachable little foible merely, as the lady was a purely private person, who made no claim to be anything other than what she was. Unfortunately, the upmarket area in which she lived attracted quite a mix of transient pedestrians, as it had as its centrepiece the Eiffel Tower, a worthwhile view of which was impossible to gain from her rather grand apartment in view of the fact that it directly overlooked the Champ de Mars. By craning your neck out of the windows you could just about manage a not particularly appealing prospect of the lowest levels of the structure. But I am digressing.
One day, inevitably, some opportunist ruffian, attracted by the said ostentatious display of personal wealth, accosted the lady in the street, robbing her of her purse, which contained a respectable amount of money, naturally, and the keys to her apartment, which, needless to say, was a treasure trove. Consequently, the police had to visit her to take a statement and a locksmith had to come to the apartment to replace the locks, not for the first time. Furthermore, of course, her dispersed family were inevitably drawn to her to shower her with the desired degree of sympathy and fussing about. All of this attention pleased Mme la Vicomtesse enormously. She had not been the focus of such attention . . . since the last time she contrived to be accosted in the street by flashing her wealth about. Well, how else is a perfectly ordinary vicountess to be the centre of attention when she has lost her sparkle?
As for jogging in one's jewellery and getting mugged for it in East Lothian, on the other hand, how else is a perfectly ordinary Labour mediocrity, who may never have had much sparkle, to become the centre of media attention, if only for an instant? Apart, that is, from causing controversy by getting the constituency party of the Labour leader at Holyrood suspended.
Which brings me to the suggestion that this sordid little internal Labour Party dispute may actually have something to do with the controversy over the planning powers of the Scottish Parliament that are inconveniencing the UK government. Needless to say, BT may be expected follow this up and report back diligently in due course.
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#26 greenRiordan
Were there other cases of mugging before or after May in Cockenzie and Port Seton? I understand that the population is only around 5000.
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18
No, I mean quite simply that the OMOV system used by the SNP is vulnerable to misuse - as are all systems, as I pointed out.
I preferred the system applied in the past by the SNP ie branches select delegates to represent their opinions and to vote accordingly at CA meetings and selection meetings - but that system had its weaknesses also.
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#21 oldnat
"Have you had a chance to look at the section on Switzerland in the IEG Report to Calman?"
I've only just downloaded it from the Calman website, but will read it with interest and comment later.
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Some commentators on this site would have us believe that this is an internal Labour issue - well thats true but there is an important wider political point about Westminster control freakery in here too.
By the way I purchased a return rail fare (standard class) between London and Edinburgh for £78 last week. I also fly regularly for around £80 return. Ms Moffat's travel claims suggest a lack of concern on her part about using tax-payers money judicously.
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#3
If what you're saying is correct about the rail fares, then it just highlights how frivolous politicians are with their expense accounts.
7211GBP over 26 trips averages out at just over 277GBP per trip from East Lothian to London. Just the other day, I was able to get tickets from Glasgow to London and back for just over 60GBP - that's less than a quarter of her figure.
If politicians MUST have expense accounts, they should at least be given strict criteria for using them, ie "get the best value for money - book early!"
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#31, #32
As someone who "bodyshops" out to companies, I can tell you that normally the cost of the time far outweighs any expenses incurred.
If, by booking 1st class, Ms Moffat can make better use of her time while travelling then, from an overall view, that might offer better value to the taxpayer than booking cheap tickets and not being able to use the time effectively.
I'm not trying to defend Ms Moffat, just saying that it's not as simple as the cheapest ticket.
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Shouldn't MPs be taking to working from home in this day and age.
Good way to lower the carbon footprint; put a big projector up in the House of Commons and members sitting in their Office/Home can be put on the screen to rest of the house.
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Allow me my best Maradona impression;
"Who is Gray? Gray? I greet Alex Salmond not Gray..."
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28 oldnat
I have no official information on the frequency of muggings in the C and PS area, although a perusal of the local press does not suggest that they happen very often, and certainly not in broad daylight, on a well-used path in view of houses.
Strange things happen in East Lothian however.
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All parties have their selection battles; remember the SNP bloodbath for regional list placings in 2003 which actually squeezed some of their most talented MSPs out of the Parliament never to be seen again?
But Labour still has a major problem with the level of control trade unions (especially UNISON) have over MP/MSP selections. It's intriguing that where Labour managed to replace the worst of their UNISON-planted MSPs for 2007, they held the seat. Where they didn't, they lost it.
If Labour want the best candidates to win elections and properly represent their constituents, they must end the practice of letting a UNISON general secretary sign multiple branch ballot papers to over-rule the will of the local party members.
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Re #33
Book in advance and £39.50 each way will get you first class rail travel between Edinburgh and London. Even when that fair is unavailable the next level up takes you just over £100 for the two legs.
£277 return is just either a case of not looking for the best fares or not caring about wasting the taxpayers' money.
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No-one seems to have suggested that the reason her local party don't support her is because they fear the electorate's verdict.
Westminster's #1 expenses claimant, her infamous 'Hitler' remarks in the Commons (shocking) and, how can I put this, not someone who benefits from media exposure, maybe the local party would prefer to replace her with someone electable.
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The thing about Moffat's travel isn't the cost of individual journeys, but the number of them which were made for purely internal party political purposes (by her own admission - "When I was first elected I wanted to establish myself and impress some of the people who did not want me there in the first place"), then charged to the public purse.
We shouldn't have been paying for her to shore up her dodgy status within EL Labour Party.
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Did she not call the SNP Nazis? Not adding much to the quality of political debate, is she?
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#36 greenRiordan
Strange things happen in Ayrshire as well.
I remember, many years ago, a well-known cooncillor decided to have a rest on a bench, while on his way home from a convivial evening.
When he woke a few hours later, someone had nicked his watch and wallet!
However, being a ex-mining community, the "word" was put out that there would be dire consequences (lots of pit boots still around), and the articles were duly returned to him.
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#11 - I wonder how they knew the earrings were diamond, and not CZ????
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Re #34 BrianSH
It's an excellent idea, and it may make the MPs a little more concerned about giving us high speed communication and internet links throughout the country so that we can drag ourselves up to the level of many countries we see as being 'less developed'
My question on this is, and believe it or not I have not already made my mind up on this, why do we need to have any meetings in the house of commons at all. What is the purpose of all that supposed debate. PMQs is pure theatre and nothing else, and I would wager that the vast majority of the country never see it on TV. How does having the debates physically located in the commons aid or advance democracy?
Why not tell them all to stay at their local office, connect them to a great big net meeting and then they can 'debate' away to their hearts content without costing us an arm and a leg (remember it's not just travel, it's also accomodation etc.)
If anyone has a really good reason for them all having to be in the chamber, other than 'we've always done it that way', I would be genuinely interested to hear it
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38. At 12:23pm on 20 Nov 2008, ered_luin wrote:
Re #33
Book in advance and ?39.50 each way will get you first class rail travel between Edinburgh and London. Even when that fair is unavailable the next level up takes you just over ?100 for the two legs.
?277 return is just either a case of not looking for the best fares or not caring about wasting the taxpayers' money.
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While not defending the spending, some people do not have the option of booking early. It's called business requirements.
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#43 GlasgowGooner
"I wonder how they knew the earrings were diamond, and not CZ????"
There are probably a lot of sophisticated neds in Cockenzie & Port Seton!
The Press, I presume, got the information from the Police Report - which she would have needed for the insurance claim.
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Brian
You must remember that Labour is the product of the Unions therefore UNISON voting for candidates for MP = democracy for historic reasons. However a House of Lords full of people likely to vote against Labour policy for historic reasons is anti-democratic but a new one full of dodgy ex-MP's and party activists is very democratic.
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#41 - I believe she compared Salmond to Hitler as both were 'reliant' on proportional representation for getting elected. Unlike herself, who relies on undemocratic, union sponsored, Mugabe-style, ballot-box-stuffing.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/6685279.stm
Moffat appears to be the perfect example of what you get if you vote Labour at Westminster ... ignorant, with a near complete inability to express herself in public and little more than brown-nosing voting-fodder.
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#40 oldnat
That's what got me wondering too, where did she have the time to do anything with all this travelling. It's even worse when you factor in the amount of time Westminster isn't in session and then to do 24K miles as well - truly astounding
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From Wikipedia - on Moffat's expenses
"More significantly she had submitted claims for £1,817 in rail fares for 42 trips between Heathrow and Central London - an average of £43. Such a figure is of note as the journey is a mere 15 miles and the highest priced ticket actually costs £18."
No wonder that while in September 2006 it was ruled that the expenses should be made public under FOI, Parliament continued to refuse to disclose the information for a total of two years, going as far as the High Court to prevent its disclosure. It was not until recently that her expenses were finally made public.
Since Labour's NEC now run the local party that wanted to deselect her, and Moffat has been a member of the NEC since 1990, democracy seems to be a distant memory for the Labour Party.
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The Moffat Motto is Spero Meliora - "I hope for better things"
Seems appropriate, somehow!
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Re #45
True that urgent business requirements may prevent advance booking of fares, however a quick check on the website for the East Coast mainline operator and a weekend trip to London from Edinburgh starting tomorrow is still only £109.50 each way.
Still cheaper than the 277 total claimed for.
However you would think that a MP would be following the parliamentary schedule for many of the trips and would be able to plan some of the trips in advance.
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#21 oldnat
"Have you had a chance to look at the section on Switzerland in the IEG Report to Calman?"
Before commenting on the Swiss section of Muscatelli's report, it must be worth mentioning that there is no evidence whatsoever in the report that the so-called Independent Expert Group are in any way independently minded. In fact I find it astonishing that there are no dissenting views at all among the dozen people on whose behalf Muscatelli writes, seven of whom seem to be Scottish-based.
In particular, their leap from "established economic theory", where 10 of the 12 are clearly experts, into "political science", where all but two are amateurs, seems a remarkably unionist one, using nation to describe the UK and region to describe Scotland. As a result, most Scottish sports fans will find the document condescending throughout, let alone SNP supporters. They're also clearly all uniformly schooled in Westmidden's "supremacy of parliament" nonsense while ignoring its democratic deficit when coming out with garbage like: "The choices made by a government reflect that it was elected to express the value judgements of the electoral majority."
This top-down approach pervades throughout, with references to matters "devolved to sub-national government" rather than considering which powers the people may wish to delegate to various tiers of governance. As such, no Liberal can have taken part. If the LibDems nominated someone, it must have been from their SDP wing.
Perhaps the most important "political science" statement in the whole document is para. 6.3.11 on p19, which says: "A key consideration is whether a region with full fiscal autonomy, thus having different fiscal and economic policies as well as its own tax (and possibly benefits) system, is to all intents and purposes, independent. If this is the case, full fiscal autonomy would not be compatible with continuance of the union that is the United Kingdom."
That would be true if the word existing were inserted before union in the last sentence, and again suggests no Liberal could have proof-read the report. In fact the entire document seems to contain no mention of any need to complete or correct the existing asymmetrical devolution arrangements of the UK, let alone consider the democratic deficit of its nonexistent constitution.
All the more surprising that in para 3.1.9 on p34, Muscatelli somewhat grudginly admits: "Public opinion appears to endorse the further compartmentalisation of the different territorial politics of the two nations, and - of particular significance for the expert group - to favour greater Scottish fiscal autonomy."
Ultimately, though, it's hard to disagree with the final sentence of the report on p55: "In other words, it is necessary to first have a clear view on the very nature of the union with the rest of the United Kingdom prior to working through the trade-offs of different approaches to territorial finance."
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Re Switzerland, what's written on p46 et seq is true, but hardly the whole truth. In particular, it plays down the ultimately sovereignty of the Swiss people via their residence in communes. Many referenda in Switzerland are on communal matters, including which cantonal to membership. Canton Jura is shown as the poorest per capita, but it only came into existence in 1979 by the votes of communes previously in Canton Bern. The commune of Vellerat only seceded from Bern to join Jura in 1995. Perhaps the most important statement of all is in para 4.2.3 on p46, which correctly states: "The Swiss system is based on the very extensive fiscal autonomy of the cantons (and the limited autonomy of the federal layer)."
The downside is perhaps less fairly stated in para 4.5 "Impact on equity" which says: "The consequence of emphasising cantonal autonomy is that nation-wide equity is not strongly safeguarded, nor is the idea of all citizens having similar life chances. The resources available to governments and the public services that citizens receive consequently vary very considerably."
Without stating an untrue word, it doesn't quite get across that fact that a Swiss child will receive the same access to high-quality education in Canton Jura as in Canton Zug, and that there are few, if any, failing inner-city schools. Greater "equity" in the UK can mean entirely different school experiences in neighbouring council areas - probably nowadays even more marked in England than Scotland.
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#53 Brownedov
You've obviously done more than just skimmed it like me!
Actually, I don't have a problem with "using nation to describe the UK and region to describe Scotland" or "sub-national government" - In general, I prefer the use of the term "state" instead of "nation", but this is a problem in the academic world, where it causes huge problems for the Americans (who do a lot of the research).
Consequently, in an academic treatise, one expects to see American terminology.
Again, it's not surprising that they don't address the question of addressing the democratic deficit - they are very careful to avoid suggesting political angles, with one exception that you quote -
"A key consideration is whether a region with full fiscal autonomy, thus having different fiscal and economic policies as well as its own tax (and possibly benefits) system, is to all intents and purposes, independent. If this is the case, full fiscal autonomy would not be compatible with continuance of the union that is the United Kingdom."
The more I look at this, the more puzzled I get!
1.The words "autonomy" and "independent" are for practical purposes synonomous.
2. It is illogical to say that if Scotland had full autonomy in one major area of Government, it would automatically have full autonomy in every other area of Government - Defence? Foreign Affairs? etc.
Their first sentence, therefore, only makes sense if we add one word thus -
"A key consideration is whether a region with full fiscal autonomy, thus having different fiscal and economic policies as well as its own tax (and possibly benefits) system, is to all intents and purposes, fiscally independent.
However, that then becomes a tautology, and not worth including.
If sentence 1 falls, then sentence 2
"If this is the case, full fiscal autonomy would not be compatible with continuance of the union that is the United Kingdom."
becomes a statement with no justification provided for it.
When the IEG report was discussed on Newsnicht, the LD rep was careful to say that they were not arguing for "full fiscal autonomy", but "Federal fiscal autonomy".
Quite what that phrase means, I have no idea.
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#54 oldnat
Point taken, but one could also argue that "full fiscal autonomy" would include expenditure on defence, the diplomatic corps and anything else currently "reserved", thus rendering the existing union unworkable and making new constitutional arrangements necessary for any kind of union to survive.
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#55 Brownedov
I think we will have this thread to ourselves, as no other poster seems to have read the IEG Report, and the very carefully worded discussion of exactly why Miss Moffat sat down on that tuffet will have to await more information!
However, to our theme.
Of course, I agree with you that full fiscal autonomy would require a significant change to the current UK constitutional structure, but the IEG report fallaciously suggests that full fiscal autonomy equals political independence and, therefore, falls outwith the remit of Calman.
In a strange excursion into reversing their mantra of "political before fiscal structures" they concatenate Confederalism with Independence and, therefore, not to be considered.
I have spent the last few years closely involved with academia, which I had previously (and naively) considered to be "pure and independent".
In reality, the motivation for much research is to attract government cash, and an awareness of the "requirements of the customer" sullies the research.
I'm sure that Muscatelli was not "told" to exclude the Liberal vision from the equation, but that he was well aware that the possibility of future contracts would be enhanced by doing so.
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#56 oldnat
You're an old cynic, but the $64000 question is: Are you cynical enough?
You're probably right that having passed the buck back to their masters with their closing argument they had at least to muddy the waters on full fiscal autonomy for fear of losing a useful source of income.
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Going back to why Moffat doesn't have the support of key people in her own party, it is worthwhile having a look at her voting record in the H of P.(see www.theyworkforyou.com)
She's graded as Very Loyal i.e she votes as she's told to, and she has voted among other things;-
For the war in Iraq,
Against an investigation into why we went to war,
For the renewal of Trident,
For ID Cards,
For the anti-terror laws,
For the closure of Post offices
There are decent Labour supporters in East Lothian who perhaps think that she does NOT represent the views of the electorate, nor of the local party.
She is someone who causes division whatever she does. I hope she is NOT deselected and stands at the next election!
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#57 Brownedov
Cynical enough - is that possible in politics?
Actually, we should be quite pleased that sufficient notice, of the possibility of Confederalism, has been taken that they bothered to rubbish it.
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Have you guys have seen this Reform Scotland
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#58 greenRiordan
As a member of the NEC, she couldn't possibly vote against the UK Labour Party on anything.
I agree with you that there are many decent Labour Party members (probably a higher % of them in a high member constituency), who are embarassed over the actions of the UK Labour Government.
However, just deselecting their current MP shouldn't salve their conscience.
They would show real courage in moving the Labour Party in Scotland to a real Scottish Labour Party, which represented the views of their members in Scotland, instead of being "slaves" to policies designed to attract Middle England Tories.
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#59 oldnat
"Cynical enough - is that possible in politics?"
Perhaps not.
I agree that it's gratifying that our odd ramblings should be taken notice of. Sadly, the powers that be clearly consider it part of the problem rather than a possible solution.
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#60 cynicalHighlander
Thanks for the link. I hadn't come across them before.
Certainly I agree with their: "This requires us to address the position in England because it is the lack of a body to represent English interests that is the Achilles? heel of the current devolution settlement".
IMO, unless that happens fairly soon there is no realistic long-term prospect of saving the UK.
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#54 oldnat
Good connectivity to the UK tonight, so watching QT from Glasgow as I type this and note that Murphy, the Tory and the Mail hackette are all using the term "Nation" to mean the UK and doing themselves little good as a result. Perhaps I've missed it, but I have noticed Scott let it slip or Sturgeon let it rile her.
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PS to my #64
Last "have" should have been "haven't".
Must be getting tired.
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#64 Brownedov
I find QT particularly annoying in its UK centralism.
When broadcast from Scotland, Wales, or NI they have a tokenism on the panel, but the agenda is wholly UK issues.
Were the BBC genuinely representative of the UK, programmes from the nations (and the English regions) would represent the reality of politics would dominate, rather than replicating the London agenda as if it was the norm throughout the UK.
Dimbleby is dire.
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As usual a Scottish audience on Question Time is well ahead of the game. The notion that Brown is saviour of the world's economy provoked guffaws but why are our southern neighbours so easily taken in?
I return to my previous prognosis. Brown will get a good press until his position at the head of the Labour Party is cemented and all plotters are seen off.
Once that has been achieved the attack on him in the media will intensify, probably in the New Year, he may be led into a will he/wont he call a General Election again and if he does so he will be soundly beaten as the press can do him in in a month. If he doesn't he will limp along as a lame duck leader to inevitable defeat at he next election
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#66 oldnat
Agreed - his brother is rather less awful on Any Questions, although that also suffers from the same UK centric viewpoint.
Somehow I can't see Murphy complaining about it using his reserved powers, though.
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61 oldnat
I wasn't aware that she is on the NEC. She did rather unexpectedly vote for a referendum on the EU Treaty (or at least didn't vote against a referendum, I can't remember which). She has since been made a PPS (gofer) in the English Health Dept. so it can't be forbidden to oppose the Govt if you are on the NEC.
I'm glad she's got this job, she'll have less time to put herself in danger in that hotbed of crime which is Cockenzie and Port Seton.
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Saw the bold Iain Gray on telly today. Suggested wee Nicola should resign over a complete non story about refusing a public enquiry which she has not done.
Why is the BBC running this non stop?
It's mince (a technical term there).
They can't lay a glove on big Eck so they are having a go at his wee sister!
She'll see them off and the public have grown very fond of wee Nicola already so the under the belt stuff will backfire.
Shouldn't Iain Gray be sorting out his own constituency party at this point?
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#69 greenRiordan
Sunday Herald is the first time I've seen any media outlet question whether "the incident in which you said you were mugged was exaggerated. Do you know what the status of your complaint to the police is?"
Naturally, I totally believe her statement - "Well, I suppose you just have to look at the medical records for that. I had broken ribs. I've still got scars that I could show you, but I'm not going to do that".
Seems like a totally Parliamentary answer to me, and follows Brown's example in answering the question.
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71 oldnat
Cracking answer! Masterly obfuscation.
The Sunday Herald is now running with the East Lothian story, so perhaps more will be revealed about her activities.
But don't deselect her, PLEASE!
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73 HopetounLass
In an earlier post I referred to "decent Labour supporters". I hereby put you in that category.
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#73 HopetounLass
I second greenRiordan's description of you!
Moffat must have been such a disappointment after John Home Robertson (whom I rather liked).
Is there a political disagreement as well?
Iain Gray was on the devolutionist wing of Labour, while Moffat is clearly one of the anti-devolutionists (voted against the party line to keep the 129 MSPs).
Does this come into play at all?
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Re-posted with the potentially defamatory bits removed (I hope!) - Big Brother seems to be watching me.
I'm just an ordinary member of the Labour Party in East Lothian. Not very active at all and didn't vote at all in the original selection contest. But I've been incensed by Anne Moffat's behaviour since she became an MP - behaviour which would not be accpetable from a man or a woman.
She's been challenged privately and done nothing. The labour party thought it could solve things by just quietly not renominating her but she was saved by trades unions who aren't even based in east Lothian.
Ever so the Labour Party locally has never really leaked out information about it's real and pressing concerns about Anne Moffat - **beyond the expenses issue**. Perhaps they should. I have had complaints from members of the public that she is rude to them (if she bothers to respond at all) and bad at her job. She thinks though that if she flings enough dirt at the Party it will stop people looking too closely at her, perhaps.
Changing the way she dresses (pink is so very 'victim' don't you think?) and blaming a group of long time party stalwarts (most of whom seem to be retired councillors, activists and officials of both genders) won't wash. Her pointed failure to say that they weren't responsible for the attack on her was desperate. - see original BBC news web article for this.
It seems strange that we have heard nothing from the police about how they are hunting hard for her attackers.
This charade has gone on long enough. I've been a feminist all my adult life and it is offensive to talented women who've worked hard when someone cries 'bullying' when their shortcomings are pointed out. perhaps she should subject herslef to a one member one vote ballot if she is so convinced she is in the right?
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Hopetoun Lass
I appreciate your straighforward account of a puzzling affair.
I do not know what kind of scrutiny Anne Moffat was subjected to before she was selected as a candidate but on the evidence of her recent performance it can't have been very strenuous.
She is obviously a product of a Labour Prty operation which is being undermined by the constitutional question.
Trade union weight, loyal to London, is overpowering local democracy. It is destroying Scotland's Labour Party.
As one who believes that Labour should be in the forefront of Scotland's march to normal independence this saddens me.
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