Cassius strikes
And so, virtually by the time I posted the previous blog, he'd quit.
David Cairns that is. (Apologies, incidentally, for being so dilatory earlier: I was otherwise engaged.)
In normal circumstances, the resignation of a junior minister (of two) from a sub-department of state whose reason for existence is frequently questioned would not cause much of a stir.
These are not normal circumstances. The prime minister is in deep trouble. Who now remembers the sundry parliamentary aides whose resignation forced Tony Blair to name a date for his own departure from office?
It is possible that, similarly, there will now be serial resignations in the run-up to the party conference. Gordon Brown may now find used against him the very tactic he deployed - or witnessed being deployed on his behalf.
Against all this, Team Brown has key arguments. Who would be better? Who would be better, particularly at a time of international financial crisis?
Most directly, they may point out that a second new leader within a single parliament would surely demand a General Election? Is Labour ready for that?
Not, I grant you, the cream of intellectual persuasion. But Mr Brown no longer has time for such luxuries.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
David Cairns, the Scotland Office minister, we are familiar with. David Cairns, the sometime combatant with SNP Ministers? David Cairns, the former priest?
This much we know, this much we understand.
But David Cairns as Cassius? OK, maybe not, no lean and hungry look. Brutus, then?
A co-conspirator against the dark, brooding Caesar who resides at Downing Street, 10.
It is said that a minister has been speaking, privately so far, of his disquiet with the Prime Minister and of his reluctance to serve further. It is said that Minister is David Cairns. Mr Cairns has said nothing. As yet.
Mr Cairns is a buddy of Siobhain McDonagh, the (now ex) whip who started the current round of speculation about the prime minister's prospects. He worked as her research assistant.
Further, Mr Cairns experienced the pain of the voters directly when he led the Labour campaign in the Glasgow East by-election.
Financial dissaray
He now has three options. He can declare undying loyalty to the PM. He can wield the knife by resigning from the Government.
Or he can attempt to dismiss speculation as unwarranted froth when global financial markets are in disarray.
Either way, don't think he'll be in charge of the Labour campaign in Glenrothes. Remember Philippi. And where's Mark Anthony when you need him?
I'm 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~14~RS~)
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with the way the labour party is going then gordon brown will be able to campain in the glenrothes by-election, as he may not be able to use the excuse that prime ministers do not campain in by-elections.
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He's gone.
Was it all disquiet about Gordon's leadership, or was he resentful at being made the fall guy for Glasgow East?
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He's gone Brian.
McChatter has jumped off the ledge
I suspect Cairns didn't want to take the hit for another dismal performance at Glenrothes and knew he was going to be passed over in any event for Jim Murphy.
The Scots are rebelling.
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I disagreed with cairns policies but lets me honest. Out of the current crop of Labour he was pretty good and would be good opposition to Alex Salmond if he decides to run for the scottish parliament.
Unlike every other Scot Lab he is not obsessed with mentioning Alex Salmond in every sentence but does manage to hold Salmond up for inspection in a way everyone else has failed.
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It's funny how, when dear old Gordon was Tony's chancellor, that he was the greatest thing since sliced bread - although people forget that he inherited alot from the previous tory government.
That said the global financial institutions are in meltdown - far too many thought it was easy pickings, lining their pockets with "loads of money" the banks were on a roll, and the only people who could not see the meltdown coming were the banks - oh and the government
No matter your views on Gordon Brown, he should have the knowledge and contacts to get us out this very sorry mess - financial not political - and voters will remember that when they needed strong leadership, that certain MP's were trying to dislodge their leader, one that they had all signed up to over a year ago.
De Javu with the Tories and Major!!
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My my! how long until some arch-unionists arrive to the board claiming that the Labour party falling to bits is all the fault of the arch-nats and their 'failed' 136 commitments.
The sad truth is the unionist parties don't need the SNP's help to failure cascade, they are quite capable on their own!
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Brian,
G Brown now has a major problem (as if he didn't before?) with Scotland and, therefore, his position in the light of this resignation. Cairns was his placeman in the Scottish office.
His new placeman in Holyrood is one Iain Greysuits who today announced key appointments to his 'Shadow Cabinet'.
And who are they??
Motormouth Curran who LOST the Clasgow East by-election.
Andy Kerr who LOST the recent leadership election for the LPoWiS.
And Kathy ('Allright Bernard') Jamieson who also LOST the recent LPoWiS election.
If you surround yourself with losers, what does that make you??
The one-way ticket to 'exit' seems to have been bought by increasing numbers of Labour Party MPs/MSPs!!
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I recall the words of Caesar, "Infamy! Infamy! they've all got it in for me!" - (Kenneth Williams as Julius Caesar in Carry On Cleo).
'Carry On Labour' is now the longest running farce in Scotland.
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Did someone mention rats and sinking ships? The hyenas are closing in on Brown and no amount of posturing and bluster is going to save him. I suspect his closest allies will very soon start hedging their bets and looking to quiely disassociate themselves from him. Watch the plausible Jack Straw professing support and looking for a dagger to further his own ambitions while Milliband sucks up to Brown and the hyenas at the same time. The sooner this awful government falls on its sword the better.
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Like the "Roman" theme Brian.
Perhaps your brooding Caesar is even losing his support from his loyal northern legions.
Although I think Nero would be a better example for Brown, fiddling away while everything around him burned.
Bring on the fall of the Nu Lab empire.
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'' I impeached mysely by resigning''
Richard Nixon.
Wansanshoo.
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If the demise of the Scottish Office is to be believed then he may well have been out of a job sooner rather than later anyway. Though maybe not since Des Browne will likely have stayed at the MoD and he'd would likely have been the junior minister representing Scotland in the new department.
I'm racking my brains for a logical answer to this because a Labour MP resigning on principle simply doesn't compute.
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So Cairns has indeed gone. Of course the Brown camp will say they expected it, and that he's always been anti-Brown. But they must be worried as it starts to fall apart for Brown even in his own fiefdom.
The trouble for Cairns was that, as a priest, he could hardly be expected to lie. It only needed a single journalist to ask whether he had full confidence in Brown as leader and he was going to have to tell the truth and make his departure.
The trouble for Brown is that the cancer appears to be well and truly embedded in the heart of government. It doesn't look like the resignations thus far have been enough to stop it spreading.
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David Cairns
Voted against a transparent parliament.
Voted against an Iraqi war inquest.
Voted for the war in Iraq.
Voted for the replacement of Trident.
Voted for compulsory I.D. cards.
This simply means that the circus will head to Glenrothes with one clown less.
Wansanshoo.
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Apparently, I have resigned from the Government.
This was actually a clerical error, would you believe? Now that the letter has been sent off, though, I suppose that's that, and I'll just have to make the best of it.
Shortly I shall be giving my reasons for resigning, as soon as I have made something up.
These are stirring times, comrades. As I say, a carefully crafted message from me to you, the people of Britain, follows shortly. Stay close to your receivers and stay tuned for this important announcement.
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#2 oldnat
"There have been rumours that other, more junior ministers are also considering resigning in the coming days."
You have your finger on the pulse, oldnat.
Who do you think the others are?
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Brian,
Further disquiet for GB to handle, this should fester nicely across the conference and by early October a rash of calls will go out and we will have a leadership election in November. Not much of a choice thought, just re-arranging the deck chairs on the titanic.
The lack of real comment from either SNP or main parties regional elements and also nationally suggests that all are waiting for the end. To borrow a phrase from Agent Smith on The Matrix "it is inevitable"
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David who?
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A dark, brooding Caesar resides at Downing Street, 10.
"No time for intellectual persuasion," he barks at his aides.
"No time for such luxuries!
"Leave me alone now with my thoughts."
(They leave)
He falls to his knees. "Oh, woe. Woe is upon me!"
Brutus steps out from the shadows and plunges a knife into into Caesar by resigning from the Government.
Caesar, recognising his assailant, cries:
"Et tu numptie? Then fall, Caesar."
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Bigfussaboutnothing, you ran off without explaining;
a) who those 136 commitments were made to, if not the electorate, and
b) what type of commitment would not be in the manifesto (ie. a secret commitment).
Just reminding you in case you forgot.
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#16 bighullaballoo
I tried to keep my finger on the pulse of the Labour Party but alas (like Lazarus) it was parrot-like.
I don't think even an ex-priest can resurrect it!
What will be really interesting, however, is whether this is simply a problem at UK level, or whether there is a Scottish dimension.
What are Cairns' privately held views on devolution within the Labour Party? Is this a manifestation of a developing split among Labour MPs - some of whom might have decided that their interests lie with a "real" Scottish Labour Party, rather than the North British branch.
Hopefully Brian, and others with the contacts to probe these issues, will be able to enlighten us.
Unless Jim Murphy, gets Cabinet rank in the reshuffle, I think he might be next.
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#16 bighullabaloo
Has his big sister been bending his ear to "bring it on"?Further to your question.
I just came across thin in today's Independent
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I am from Greenock and Cairns is from a long line of monkey's with red rossettes. Yet this one come's from the particularly slimely end of the Blair-bour party. He has the audacity to criticise the Tories and SNP in his resignation spiel. Labour MPs have been elected in Greenock since the year dot and look at the state of the place - who is he kidding about regeneration - the place is appalling. Cairns is a failure in both his chosen careers and hopefully the SNP will skelp him at the next election - hopefully McNeil MSP as well. I don't think Gordon Brown should worry about this man at all - just another in a long line of Labour inepts sent from Scotland to Westminster. And we saw how well he did at Glasgow East didn't we?
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Only ONE Scottish New Labour MP DIDN'T nominate Gordon Brown for leader last year. And it wasn't the afore mentioned D. Cairns!
A year ago he was leading the cheerleading now he stabs his leader in the back.
What a rat.
New Labour are a party bereft of principles (what are "values" exactly anyway?), honesty and purpose. Much the same as the rest of them actually!
That's what happens when you revise your core raison d'etre and exchange conviction for Mammon.
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Brian
Lets be honest, Cairns was going nowhere in Browns Labour party after Glasgow east, he was in death row anyway. Hoe probably jumped before being pushed.
However everyone is clambering for Browns head, what a christian act to jump on the bandwagon!
Brown should call for a leadership bid and see if Milliband has the guts. i doubt it. Also in difficult times it is easy to call for the PM's head. Easy to deliver as well. But fair weather never makes good sailors.
Think though what are the alternatives?
Milliband as PM? Surely never, worse than Blair! Would definately kill Labour chances.
Cameron, a man of absolutley no policies whatsoever. He has spent the whole period of his leadership saying absoltely nothing. However some of his team have occasionally gone off message and delivered fleeting glimpses of life under the tories, much the same as the last time.
Clegg, who is he? This week has shown little has changed in the LD's
It is almost enough to make you vote SNP!
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#20 Reluctant-Expat
I lost interest when you failed to produce a shred of evidence that Salmond claimed "137 manifesto pledges".
I'm not interested in you until you have the guts to admit you got it wrong.
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Let us all weep real tears. Another little Blairite, toadying wastrel has quit. What does it matter, the New Labour experiment has ended in fiscal meltdown. I am only sorry that Blair didn't get the same treatment, after all he and the truth were very much estranged.
What did Cairns do for hos own constituency? Well nothing as far as I can see as a wee trip through Inverclyde can show. What did he do at the Scottish Office? Well he sauntered about in his ministerial car smiling wanely at anyone daft enough to be where he was.
His, 'safe pair of hands' at the Glasgow East proved to be anything but. So let him go, he'll never see office again as no PM would ever trust him.
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allthough i do not like cairns, i must congratulate him on his integrity in resigning his position in the government.
the british electorate have not taken kindly to G. Brown as prime minister nor the labour policies and the labour politicians should face up to this.
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According to Iain Gray, who says he knows and respects David Cairns, he is "absolutely wrong" in this regard.
Therein lies the difference between an elected representative - albeit a Labour MP - whose conscience will not allow him to "live a lie", or otherwise represent an untenable situation - and a placeman of the same party who has just been appointed to do precisely that!
How ironic that Mr Gray should demonstrate this blinkered and selective vision even as he simultaneously unveils his own front-bench "Losers' Line-up"!
Of course, as Brown's man (or regional whipping boy), he can do nothing else - for denial of the malaise aboard the Good Ship Labour has now become his, and his party's, raison d'etre!
What a glittering and auspicious start for the "chosen one" who aims to seize the day for Labour, and re-take the ascendency and the confidence of the Scottish people away from our popular Scottish Government!
Would the last sucker to jump ship please push GB over first!
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From Sky News - Brown's response to Cairns
Brown's two themes seem to be "Don't rock the boat over devolution" and "Don't question my leadership!"Complain about this comment
It does not matter who is the leader of the labour party, there comes a time in the life of all Governments when they become unelectable. Unfortunately we are at that time.
In Scotland the SNP will benefit, in England the tories. The future will certainly be interesting to watch
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Amoung all of the substandard politicialns in the UK government David Cairns is the one I most wanted outed.
His MacChattering comments were insulting and from someone who is supposed to represent Scotland he should have left then.
However he stuck around to mess up Glasgow East and to stick the knife in at head office.
Suppose this is the first time he has done anything in the interests of Scotland so fair play for that.
Was it a coincedence that the FTSE showed a glimpse of recovery at the same time as the resignation, proof indeed that all the economy needs is rid of the currently useless Labour party. (note we have again suffered worst of all markets- but dont worry Gordon says we are fine)
So good riddance from me and the MacChatterers
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The anti-Independence brigade may actually have a point, if you have a look at the policies outlined in The Scottish Review
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D. Cairns,
"For me it is an article of faith that the worst day of a Labour government is better than the best day of a Tory or SNP one."
Nutter.
If creatures of Westminster Labour like Cairns are turning against Brown - he really does have problems.
I think the next deep split in the Labour Party will be between East and West. Gordon and Iain are in control with little of the vote: Andy, Cathie etc ... and their supporters will be feeling rathered miffed at having to take a back seat despite being the only region of the party to hold something of their former level of support.
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# 27 crazyislander
"Let us all weep real tears."
I am weeping real tears....of laughter!
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#22 oldnat
Bring what on? The dancing bear?
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Ahh David McChattering Classes Carins. David may be many things, but is certainly not a lair.
Wait a minutes that's not quite true - a few weeks ago he tells everyone that Gordie is the best man for the job.
Now he can't lift is pay packet without feeling guilty.
Makes you wonder if there are any honest people in the Labour party.
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J Arthur McNumpty always has an interesting take on events. In this case
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Re 28 vote nat
I must disagree, Cairns actions today had nothing to do with integrity, everything to do with playing politics!
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Rather unkind to David Cairns,chaps.
I'm sure he has gone through agonies before he acted.
His reaction on TV to a disastrous defeat at Glasgow East was dignified and reasonable and a huge departure from the usual vicious and rabid Labour reaction in these circumstances in the past.
And those of you who bat for the SNP - no person in Scotland must be considered beyond the SNP. The SNP is a party relying on converting Scots to the Indpenedence cause. This is more readily achieved by generous debate and telling arguement than by heaping abuse on opponents. However I have to confess I get a good laugh from time time from some of the sharper abuse!
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#40 sneckedagain
"This is more readily achieved by generous debate and telling arguement than by heaping abuse on opponents."
The abuse starts when people come on here making claims without checking their facts first. When you politely ask for proof of their claim and they can't find any, they get very hostile and abusive.
I just think people who want to argue a case should present some reason why we should believe it other than they say it's true.
Every time I have asked for proof it's turned out the claim is just an attempt to smear the SNP. Rather than admit they're wrong the next step is to angrily deny some claim I haven't made.
When I point out they're arguing against something I didn't say just to divert attention from the fact they're making a false claim they resort to the abuse. That's just the way they are.
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40, sneckedagain:
I think you make a very valid point. David Cairns is a principled guy, just has principles which don't always coincide with mine. His performances are generally engaging and he has a high degree of political skill. I'll really miss throwing stuff at the radio when he comes on!
31. jordanbasset wrote:
... there comes a time in the life of all Governments when they become unelectable. Unfortunately we are at that time.
Jordan is right. That's why, even with a minority government, the SNP have to act radically. They have to ensure a complete sea change in the political scene so that when Scotland gets fed up with them, there will be a legacy of a complete culture shift.
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39 :- northhighlander.
your presumption is that he is playing politics, but you do not know for sure.
have you ever been in a job that you have had to argue that black was white in your employers defence. well i have been in this position and its not easy, and later if you have a concience it is allways on you mind and if you feel that bad about it you resign.
thats what i like to think that cairns has done.
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Re post 43, tend to agree with you, he came across on the t.v. as a decent person
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#43 vote_nat
I've also been in the position of spinning information on behalf of my bosses.
The pressure tends to be insidious, and you can take pride in your technical skill - until you step back and look at how it weakens your morality.
How much worse must it be to be a party hack/elected rep etc.
In Scottish terms, however, I think we need to see which "direction" Cairns felt was wrong.
Was it Labour policy towards the governance of Scotland; Brown's inability to secure Labour's re-election in the UK; a moral failure of Labour, or something else.
Too early to judge, I think.
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Cairns, another nail in the coffin. Labour should now be buried.
At some stage I expect some of these Unionists to start coming over to the SNP. Cairns will know about 'seeing the light'. Come and join us.
Freedom
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#40, sneckedagain
Well said.
As one of those here who bats for the SNP, I often think our supporters on this blog do us more harm than our opponents. Abuse and schoolboy debating ploys may be fun for the participants, but they irritate the uncommitted, and make SNP supporters look like puerile and undisciplined idiots.
Guys, get a grip. Labour are doing their very best to hand us the next election on a plate. But we can throw it away and we will throw it away if we persuade the electorate we're a bunch of moothie squabbling bairns.
For the rest, this resignation is a storm in a teacup. Labour has already lost the next election, and no-one - not Milliband, not Straw - wants to take over the leadership of the party before an election defeat. They'll let Brown go down with his sinking ship, and then seek to take over the leadership in opposition.
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David Cairns finally comes out and tells us how it really is. I predict Gordon Brown will be gone within weeks.
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Is this a suicide pack by the Labour MPs. It is hard to believe that they have not learned the lessons from the past as even the Tories are keeping quiet about their differences. However, I suppose the Tories find it easier to seem unified since they have yet to tell the voters what their policies are, though few people really have any idea what they would do about the world's economic problems
At least the Lib Dems Vince Cable has said what he would do and it seems sensible to cut taxes for the low and middle income earners.
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After all the speculation, it was a damp squib of a resignation. Just about everyone today was saying "David who?".
I was hoping that it was going to be a Secretary of State - that would have set things off in spectacular fashion.
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I see that Ann McKechin (Glasgow North) has been appointed to replace David Cairns.
I know little about her, except that she introduced a "CCTV Regulation 10 Minute Rule Bill" in the Commons, which seemed to be a sensible proposal, except that it was introduced in the wrong Chamber. It might have been a sensible proposal in Holyrood.
She sounds like she might have been an asset to Holyrood, though what useful purpose she will serve in a redundant Scotland Office is beyond me.
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From Wikipedia an amusing literary reference that might just reflect the mood in the Downing Street bunker:
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Oldnat,
Any further with those 137 manifesto commitments yet?????
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Memo to Gordon
What a day it's been.
As Rabbie said,
"A prince can mak a belted knight,
A marquis, duke, an' a' that!
But an honest man's aboon his might -
Guid faith, he mauna fa' that.
For a' that, an' a' that,
The pith o' sense an' pride o' worth
Are higher rank than a' that."
Or some such tosh. Never mind. I'm still prepared to take the dosh. I'll say anything you like. Otherwise I wouldn't be where I am today. Would I?
Remember that this is not the end. It is only the beginning of the end. Or is it the end of the beginning of the end? Or the beginning of the end of the beginning of the end? Whatever, we could go on for weeks yet. Who knows? The economy could go under long before we do. Not that I know anything about economics, of course. A dismal science. No offence intended.
Must away now and burn the midnight oil, re-writing my lines for my big day on Thursday. I had hoped to say something in the pretendy wee parliament about my close working relationship with David Cairns. Don't worry, though. I'll remember to rub that bit out.
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Steve Bell in the Guardian on the Lib-Dems - cruel but funny.
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CORRECTION:
Missed out a bit of what Rabbie wrote. I am a clot. Here it is again:
"A prince can mak a belted knight,
A marquis, duke, an' a' that!
But an honest man's aboon his might -
Guid faith, he mauna fa' that.
For a' that, an' a' that,
Their dignities an' a' that,
The pith o' sense an' pride o' worth
Are higher rank than a' that."
Politics and honesty don't mix, as you well know. The SNP government is riddled with it, and look at the trouble that has caused us.
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#54 Iain_Gray
I'll miss your big day as I'm off to the USA to see the Ryder Cup. I'm based on the edge of Kentucky (unfortunately Valhalla is at the far edge, so I'll have to watch it on American TV.)
However, I'm sure that you'll score a marvellous victory over Wee Eck, and that will drive their little election off the US News.
In case it doesn't (the Americans are so insular) do post again and let me know how it goes.
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#57 oldnat
Thanks for your kind words. I'm sorry you're going to miss the fireworks. Bon voyage.
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57 Oldnat .... 'of to the USA to see the Ryder Cup' ooo la di da ... who do you think you are ....Colin Montgomery ? Besides your wrong with your 33 .... I dont think Moira hunts Carabou and Moose . Have a good one. :o)}
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Does David Cairns really think people are interested in his declared 'loyalty to Gordon' or unflinching 'loyalty to the party'? Serious politics is not about being loyal to a particular organisation or party. That's just tribalism, as Cairns then demonstrates by referring to some dogmatic 'article of faith' whereby 'the worst day of a Labour government is better than the best day of a Tory or SNP one'. Such drivel belongs to the football terracings, not to democratic debate. Grow up, David.
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What possible good did Cairns think his actions would do himself, the labour party or the UK?
Is there some knight in shining armour ready to lead us to the land of milk and honey?
Ok Brown is not doing a very good job in difficult circumstances, but who does Cairns envisage will do better?
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Rumour has it that Mr Cairns is an agent of John Reid; check the list of dissenters!
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It is rumoured that amongst the maturer elements in the Labour PLP there is a fall back plan.
1. Brown resigns
2. put a caretaker PM in place (J Straw seems favourite),
3. call a quick General Election,
4. lose it but not by as much as Brown would
5. Leave the Tories to try and sort out the current financial mess.
6. Win the next General Election
A good plan, but Gordon "courageous" Brown does not have the guts to go. A coup would not be bloodless and likely to split Labour down the middle. 20 months of more misery for Labour methinks
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26. Still scrambling to avoid answering the question, are we?
The "137 delivered commitments" claimed by Salmond are obviously 'manifesto commitments'. The "magnificent [sic] seven [sic]" he gave were all from the manifesto, were they not?
Who else would these commitments have been given to other than the electorate? Where were they listed?
Also, please could you elaborate on your comment about "commitments that ARE NOT in the manifesto". Who would those have been made to? Please give examples.
If you still can't answer these questions, then please try to list at least a quarter of this "137", if you can't manage all of them, as per the original question.
I suspect that you (again) haven't got a clue what you are talking about and are desperately trying to spin the usual Party Central line. Feel free to prove me wrong.
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26. I struggle to understand how you persist in claiming that Salmond was not talking about manifesto commitments when he claimed "137 delivered commitments".
If you look at the transcript of proceedings, the debate is clearly about the SNP manifesto:
Annabel Goldie: "Will he demonstrate continuing humility by indicating to the chamber on this anniversary which other parts of his manifesto are not worth the paper they are written on?"
Alex Salmond: "We have been totalling up the number of commitments that we have undertaken and delivered over the past year: 137. I do not have time to go through every single one, although if Annabel Goldie wants to make an appointment, perhaps we can discuss it in more detail. Let us call these the magnificent seven: funding a freeze on council tax over the next three years; the small business bonus scheme for 150,000 small businesses; removing the tolls on the Forth and Tay bridges..."
If these 137 are not from the manifesto (as we both seem to agree), then where are they from? Where are they listed? Who were these commitments made to?
No more huff and bluster about misquotes, as we have the full and correct quote here.
You have decided to defend the SNP here so do so and answer the above questions.
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MEMO TO IAIN:
Thank you for your valuable thoughts.
What do you mean by writing your own speech? Your script will be emailed to you presently. Just make sure that you comb your hair and that your flies are done up properly. Oh, and smile. I always do that myself. Never fails.
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Rumours are growing that some "background" on the Cairns resignation will become public soon. Labour's revenge perhaps?
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If I was a Labour supporter I would be absolutely disgusted at David Cairns. What on earth has he hoped to achieve except for yet another step towards the self-destruction of his own party.
This whole scenario reminds me of the run up to the 1997 election with Labour playing the role of the Tories, and its amazing that these pathetic Labour rebels forget what happened to the Tories after their own version of pointless in-fighting.
I look forward to helping de-seat Mr. Cairns at the next General Election! What a traitor!
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Re Cairrns
I have also been in the position of spinning for my employers, never telling lies, I would not do that.
Most managers have to acentuate parts of a debate from time to time, its about achieving results.
Mr Cairns I am afraid in Glasgow East did not achieve results. It was a badly managed effort by the labour party and he was a big part of it. I agree he is like most of our politicians he tries to be a genuine principled person and serve the public, but be in no doubt when cornered they will do just about anything to save their own skin. In this instance he is trying to save his skin.
This whole escapade is disgusting in that this is a time of international upheval, the extent of which we don't know and have no control over. Politicians should be applying their efforts to come up with solutions, not stab each other in the back and in Carins case the front as well, just to be sure.
I don't like Gordon Brown particularly but he is the PM. It should be the electorate that get rid of him, not a group of self interested back stabbers. I am sure when the time comes the electorate will get rid of the whole lot of them.
The 4000 or so staff made redundant on Monday must look at this and think what a petty minded, self indulgent buch politicians are. The real tradgedy of this is the ordinary office staff now facing a very uncertain future while our politicans offer little understanding and squabble amongst themselves.
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# 64 Reluctant-Expat
You and your inability to accept being wrong has now become totally tedious.
For my final word on the matter I refer you to the words of hadrianswall in #128 on the previous blog:
" Bighullabaloo! The way you slayed Reluctant-expat was brilliant. Keep up the good work."
I can't bring myself to waste any more time on a meaningless argument with you just because you can't admit you made an embarassing mistake.
Please get a life!
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Well Said Reluctant Ex-Pat
prepare for a personal attack on your integrity, it is the only way they know.
In this particular case the answer will be entirely predicatable and the langauge just as predictable.
I hope Mr Gray puts up as good a show today.
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#65 Reluctant-Expat
Every word you say on this now is making you like a bigger fool.
You wrote in yesterday's blog (#53): "How about you providing a list of the '137 manifesto pledges'?".
You write in today's blog (#65): "If these 137 are not from the manifesto (as we both seem to agree)..."
Yesterday you wanted "a list of the 137 manifesto pledges" - today you "agree" they weren't "manifesto pledges" at all!
This level of so-called "argument" doesn't deserve a response.
Since everyone has already seen you making a complete fool of yourself my interest in the matter is now less than zero.
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72. Mmm. How about explaining, at the umpteenth time of asking, what type of commitment is not included in the manifesto? Can you give an example?
Why would Salmond, in a debate about manifesto commitments, decide to suddenly announce the 'successful delivery' of scores of commitments that aren't actually listed anywhere, let alone in the manifesto?
What 130 awe-inspiring commitments can't even top the magnificence of the 'withdrawal of £1 bridge tolls'?
Among your dozens of ranting, shrill and verbose posts (many of which were supposedly your "last words on the matter"!), you still have not provided a single answer that suggests Salmond didn't just make that number up.
Which is obviously, exactly and precisely what he did. He made it all up. Again.
(And being given a pat on the back by another young nat does not have quite the impact you think it has! LOL!)
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I think Labour supporters should currently be more concerned with the idiots splitting their party and sending them into electoral damnation, as opposed to how Mr. Gray performs in the two-bit parliament in Scotland!
Priorities gentlemen, priorities.
Roll on 2010 I say! I smell a Tory landslide and the second step towards independence!
Ahhhhhh thank you Mr. Cairns, thank you.
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Re post 72, hi hullabaloo, glad to see you are still around. Also good to see you learned the lesson re not shouting at people. As promised I have not posted any more on the previous thread, but could you try and explain once more the difference between a commitment and a pledge.
I thought I had it last time but reluctant-ex pat has confused me, darn him. His post 73 does seem reasonable and logical to me, but I am sure you will help me in my confusion.
P.S. good to see no spelling mistakes (sorry my mistake you make typographical errors, I make spelling mistakes) - please keep it up - LOL X
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#75 jordanbasset
Everyone saw Reluctant-Expat's being cuaght in the act of trying to manipulate the facts.
Now handclapping writes (#19 latest blog): "After the mis-information you posted on a previous blog, I am mis-trustful of your claims. Your cavalier attitude to facts does not improve the enjoyment of reading these blogs."
So he didn't get away with it.
What you and others don't seem to understand is that by trying to support him you are now beign seen as similarly untrustworthy.
You are judged by the company you keep.
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Hi hullabaloo, thanks for taking an interest in the company I keep. I do tend to keep my own company and do not like to be part of a gang. For instance you might assume I am a supporter of G.B., I am not. If anything I am between parties at the moment, I do have to say the antics of the SNP and some of their supporters (not all by any means) on this blog have not endeared me to them.
However I have been in a lost worse company than reluctant ex pat, who seems to be quite a decent, intelligent person. To be fair most on this site do, do not think it useful to try and set yourself up as a superior being who knows all the answers and looks down on others - just a thought - best wishes
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#77 jordanbasset
And every addtional word you write in support of his unstrustworthy posts makes you look even worse. My original assessment of "not very quick on the uptake" looks more correct with every passing day.
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Hi big hullabaloo, you still don't get it do you - ok - I will stop picking on you - have a good life
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#79 jordanbasset
Your latest post must be the final proof, surely, that idiocy is genetic rather than learned?!
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