Let the battle begin
I wince in anticipation. At some point in this Labour leadership contest, someone will intone, sententiously, that political leadership is about policy not personality. Heads will nod sagely.
This is, of course, tosh. Bilge. Piffle. That does not, however, prevent it being presented as incontestable fact by some. This is tosh with a shelf life.
When you elect a leader, you are not simply selecting an automaton who will delve into a data base of pre-picked policies, using a search engine to find the right one.
You are, or should be, electing a person of integrity, sense and judgement who will decide what approach should be followed in a given set of circumstances, heavily influenced of course by those pre-selected policies.
You doubt me? Drop the word "personality". It is too tainted by celebrity telly. Insert instead the word "character."
You are looking for someone with the character to withstand the eventualities which occur. If every event could be foreseen, then one might stand ready with a pre-set basket of policies to apply like limp poultices.
However, events cannot be entirely foreseen. Hence the search for someone with the right character.
Of course, of course, one expects a leader to implement as far as possible a given set of policies. The choice of those policies in the first place often reflects the character and judgement of the leader anyway.
So, self-evidently, the policies have to be right. But character matters too - and it will be to the fore in this Scottish Labour election.
Each of the three contenders - Iain Gray, Cathy Jamieson and Andy Kerr - has talent and experience. Each has served in the Scottish Cabinet. Each is a decent despatch box performer.
As to policy, Cathy Jamieson is demonstrating signs of reflecting her Left-wing credentials, masked somewhat during the constraints of serving in government.
Those credentials are emphasised by her nominating supporters - although they are not all of the discernible Left and there are Left-leaning MSPs in the other camps.
Andy Kerr is stressing the need for the writ of the leadership to extend beyond Holyrood.
His rivals tend to prefer to let that one slide a little, presuming that the role will be defined by the mandate in practice. In other words, a leader who is facing the test of winning support across the party, including from MPs, will be entitled to expect wide-ranging loyalty.
Iain Gray is playing to some extent upon his cross-Parliament experience as first a Scottish Cabinet Minister and then a special adviser in the Scotland Office.
Admittedly, this breadth of opportunity only arose after he was liberated by the electorate in 2003.
Each of the contenders will, apparently, be making strenuous efforts to listen and learn. Oh, stop it, Brian. Quit the light mockery. What else can they say after calamitous defeat last May and in Glasgow East?
You get the core point, presumably. This is not a grand ideological battle. Yes, it is about policy. But it is about character too. Who is best placed to rescue Scottish Labour and take the fight to Alex Salmond? (It may, of course, turn out that the battle is beyond any of the three. But that is the choice.)
PS: Here's a fun game to play. Have a glance at the nomination lists in the Labour contest.
Find out whether your MSP has been bold or foolhardy enough to state a preference. Try to calculate why. Hours of harmless fun.
Note that none of the contenders for leadership has nominated a deputy. Sensible move. That would amount to running as a ticket. There is no fully-fledged, agreed ideological ticket. See above.
To be clear, Bill Butler, a deputy leadership contender, has nominated Cathy Jamieson for the top job - part of the Left-wing slate noted earlier. Johann Lamont, his rival for the deputy post, has made no such nomination.
I'm 
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Do the Labour dead get to vote as well? That tends to happen in Labour elections?
Personally I would vote for the Labour candidate that is likely to lead Labour to political oblivion. Is it under the rules to vote for all three candidates? It wouldn't be a precedent as multiple voting by Labour politicians is the norm in these leadership elections.
Who would you put your money on Brian? If you have £995 handy I would put it all on Iain Gray.
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Anyone new to this blog may not have seen the discussion in the previous thread, and would do well to consider the contest in the light of today's Herald article showing the SNP 10% ahead of Labour. That seems borne out by the regional voting intentions in the latest YouGov poll now being discussed on Nick Robinson's blog.
Articles in both the Grauniad and the Telegraph give us the "Janet & John" version of it, but for full details from YouGov in PDF format, click on Summary and/or Details. YouGov's polling methods seem much less subject to bias than the oddball polls produced during the Glasgow East campaign.
Despite being a small sample, the regional voting intentions for Scotland now put the SNP 14% ahead of Labour. I wonder why unionist papers overlooked mentioning that interesting fact. It certainly looks as though nobody could accuse the SNP of exaggerating their claims, but it would be interesting to have a larger sample to go on.
If Scottish Labour have anyone numerate left, they'll no doubt already have pointed out this cheery news to the loons fighting for the dagger to stab themselves with.
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You are right Brian, it is largely about character - but, perhaps a little sadly, it is also going to be about media image too. Labour in Scotland badly needs to look relaxed and in control of itself and the news agenda around it. It needs a breezy, lively personality with a calm and robust style of debate and policy presentation. It needs a leader who looks comfortable and assurred, and not always on the back foot. In fact, it is looking for the very antithesis of Wendy Alexander.
Why are so few of our politicians, in Scotland and in England, at all convincing these days? Is it us seeing through them or or is, as I suspect, that we have a crop of particularly poor aspirants to the top political jobs?
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Thanks for the link Browndedov. Interesting that the leader that would give Labour the biggest bounce is one T. Blair!
I don't envy any of the candidates for Labour leader in Scotland. Once the winner reaches the top of that greasy pole they'll be faced with a greasy tightrope to walk. To tackle the SNP they'll have to "put Scotland first". But at the same time they can't cause any trouble for Gordon down south. A delicate balancing act to be sure.
As a side issue it would have been interesting to see the YouGov poll results for Wales separately but they were lumped in with the Midlands. I wonder how the Welsh are viewing the SNP's continued rise and Labour's travails and what effect, if any, that is having on Plaid Cymru's fortunes. Any Welsh bloggers out there care to enlighten us?
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I'm disappointed Charlie Gordon is not standing. I know he wanted to, but clearly couldn't get only 5 nominations. If he was in the race it would have guaranteed weeks of fun. Not to worry, I'm sure we will get a few laughs out of Jamieson/Grey/Kerr.
Freedom
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Re #4 forfar-loon
You're welcome. I agree that Bliar's continued popularity seems somewhat bizarre. I does show that Miliband's QT remark in '07 was uncannily correct.
In principle you're right re the balancing act, but if "London Labour" have any sense at all they will cut the "winner" a lot of slack. Not that signs of sentience from that quarter have been frequent, of late.
If Scottish Labour don't "put Scotland first" they'll have precious few Westminster MPs left to swell the ranks of "London Labour" in opposition so they might as well admit "Duff" Gordon's doomed and get on with it regardless.
Re the Wales / Midlands grouping, the cynic in me wonders whether it would make things look too awful for a unionist newspaper to show them separately. I have posted the info and links on the Nick Robinson blog pointing out the aggregation and will look back tonight to see if anyone responds.
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Brian is right, at this point it is really a contest about character, about who can provide a credible challenge to wee eck. He has had precious little to worry about so far.
Government always produes better results when faced with a good, well organised opposition. We certainly haven't had that during this parliament.
Unfortunately I don't see a candidate that can inspire and offer an alternative vision. All three need to work hard over hte contest, not just with those who vote but look further a field and create an alternative vision.
We certainly need some opposition to the SNP, they have done okay so far without any earth shattering issues tackled, but some of the proposed legislation needs good opposition to make it work, particularly the proposed local income tax.
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#4 Good point! I can't imagine Gray, Jamieson and Kerr have been too impressed with this week's antics regarding Miliband. They must be secretly hoping Brown gets turfed out ASAP so that they get the freedom to argue for a more independent Scottish Labour Party or else Salmond will steamroller them.
Despite my name I'm not Welsh but I do follow politics there closely. Labour are in big trouble there. They lost heavily in May's local elections, being decimated in places like Denbighshire and Flintshire. But the main beneficiaries of this weren't Plaid but the Tories. They now control the same number of councils in Wales as do Labour, 2. At the next GE they're predicted to make several gains and should have at least 10 Welsh MP's for the first time since 1987. Plaid will make gains but they haven't got the electoral strength or organisation that the SNP have.
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How big is the electorate which will decide this contest? See it here
Those numbers also constitute the sum total of folk in charge of determining who will be the official NuLabour candidate in each and every constituency!
I hate to admit it, but on this matter, the American "primary" system seems vastly more 'democratic'.
In Burns' Scotland, there were less than 3,000 eligible voters, and all of them landowning males, so we have come a long way, but there's some way to go yet....
Slainte
ed
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Having suffered grievously at the hands of the governing party, which is teaching the opposition how to govern within the constitutional framework within which Scotland is currently confined and also how elections can be fought and won, Scottish Labour's time has come to show us if they have learned any lessons, particularly as they are suspected, with reason, of being incapable of doing so.
If any of the Scottish Labour leadership candidates has sufficient character to lead in such a way as to restore the Labour Party's fortunes in Scotland by demonstrating that he or she has the wit and the humility to learn from the various drubbings which it has been subjected to by the independence movement for rather a long time now, we shall all have to confess that wonders never cease.
"The Things which hurt, instruct." (Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, 1744) If Scottish Labour's next leader does not become the leader of the whole of the Labour Party in Scotland (MPs included) and if he or she fails to demonstrate within a quite short period that the things which have hurt it in Scotland lately have instructed it to good effect, public support for that party must surely continue to decline.
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#8 garethm2: thanks for the info on Wales. Another Labour heartland having the temerity to think differently.
#6 brownedov: I think it's going to be pretty difficult for London Labour to cut the Scottish wing of the party some slack. The grumbling about the influence of Scots over English affairs is becoming more of a rumbling of late. Any special treatment for Scotland plays right into the Tories' hands. And while Labour might lose as many as 30 MPs from Scotland at the next election, there are hundreds of Labour jackets on shoogly pegs in England...
On a previous thread someone mentioned a CSU/CDU type arrangement, along the lines of what happens in Bavaria/rest of Germany. It might be the best route out of this dilemma for Labour, giving them the freedom to be different in Scotland while retaining the loyal vote in Westminster. If devolution is good enough for the country, why not the party?
Given "Flush" Gordon's controlling tendencies Labour might have to wait for election meltdown before it happens though. Unless Labour in Scotland are brave enough to go it alone...?
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Commentators suggest that Holyrood collects 2nd class representatives and those with the brains go to Westminster.
Let?s analyse this, who in the Labour ranks in Westminster would have the stature to be Scottish regional leader.
Brown, Darling or Alexander, no I think not.
Let's see who else there is, erm, no one who springs to mind. No one, Labour in Scotland is bereft of talent, importantly, at all levels including grass roots.
Lets look at the contenders, Iain and Andy, nice enough chips to have a beer with, but would you send them out on there own to buy a poke o? chips? Cathy, comes across as weak intellectually, no real substance and not someone whom you?d want to engage in conversation.
What Scottish regional Labour lack is a woman or man with the common touch, conviction and love of Scotland?
Margaret Curran endorsed Iain Gray by highlighting ""I think that Iain has a deep commitment to the Labour Party and one which will see us through many of the tests and challenges that the future years will undoubtedly bring. "
There in lies Labour's Scottish regional problem, plenty commitment to Labour. But no commitment to Scotland and her peoples.
The winds of change are upon us!
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Brian,
I would not drop the personality tag.
If the Labour party in Scotland are to reverse what seems an irretrievable slide into oblivion they will need a leader of great personality and character which seems sadly lacking at the moment.
I think George Galloway would have been the man but I'm sure there are those who would disagree
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One from Time magazine for all you conspiracy theorists out there (What? On this blog? Surely not!):
http://tinyurl.com/648fyo
Just a coincidence that this article appears a few short days after Miliband tests the water for a leadership challenge...?
How long before we see the first obsequious pledges of allegiance to Gordon from the Scottish Labour candidates?! Don't mess with him, he plays for keeps!
PS Brian: "for the avoidance of doubt" (as catchy a catchphrase as ever there was) Diego Garcia is not one of Craig Levein's new signings ;o)
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Re #11 forfar-loon
Very good point re a CSU/CDU-style solution. Used properly it would show strength rather than weakness, but of course that would mean "Duff" Gordon becoming the not only the first Scottish Labour PM in a new Labour / Scottish Labour alliance, but the first PM not to be leader of his/her party since he too would be subject to the diktats of the soon-to-be-elected Scottish Labour leader.
An unlikely scenario, to put it mildly, given the present incumbent! More likely, RMS Titanic, er, Labour will go down with all hands.
More than anything else, it demonstrates how shallow were Labour's '90s devolution plans. It must now be blindingly obvious to all that those plans were much more about Labour's retention of their stranglehold on power than provision of democracy for the Scottish people.
Not only have the mighty fallen a long way, but I suspect that, to paraphrase Al Jolson, we ain't seen nothing yet.
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Reposted from previous thread
Calum Cashley's (SNP Candidate) website has an interesting analysis of Labour (Scotland) membership, culled from their accounts.
tinyurl.com/6f2us9
I've checked his numbers against their accounts, and they are correct.
The conclusion?
If every member paid the full rate there would be 3,178 Labour members in Scotland; if every member paid the concession there would be 9,534 Labour members in Scotland. The true figure will be somewhere in between (remembering that there will also be an adjustment for MPs and MSPs). No wonder Labour membership numbers in Scotland are secret.
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Alasdair,
Sad, isn't it? Ms Curran might well have been the best of them.But who's greetin'?
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Analysing the nominations by area was quite interesting - lots of Labour factionalism will be involved -
Iain Gray - 3 West Central Scotland, 4 Central/Fife, 4 Edinburgh/Lothians, 1 North East, 1 Highlands
Cathy Jamieson - 6 West Central Scotland, 2 South West, 1 Central, 1 Edinburgh, 1 North East, 1 Highlands
Andy Kerr - 9 West Central Scotland and 1 Highlands
Not nominating - Alexander and McConnell plus 5 West Central Scotland, 1 South West, 1 Fife, 1 Lothians
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Re #15 Brownedov
Yes, indeed. The CSU/CDU pact works as well as it does because Germany has a fully federal structure rather than the scribbled-on-the-back-of-a-fag-packet version of devolution that Labour cobbled together ("West Lothian question? Ah, who cares?").
Interestingly Stoiber was occasionally on the verge of becoming German chancellor despite being the "junior" partner in this arrangement. Then again he did represent one of the richest, smartest (see various PISA studies) and most beautiful parts of Germany...so maybe a Scottish Labour leader would have a chance of being PM after all in such a system!
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Re my #16
I've just read that the Labour Party in Scotland only gets one-third of the subs - the other thirds go to London and the constituency.
That would make Scottish membership between 9,534 and 28,602, so the best guess of around 17,000 at their last conference in 2007 seems about right. Presumably it will be down by now, and the SNP (around 14,000 in 2007) will be up, so I would reckon their numbers are about equal.
Which would make the age profile of their memberships interesting. Also how many of the Labour Party are members because they can get cheap drink down the Labour Club?
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I'm sure there's lots of fun still to be had mocking Labour's "Three Amigos" as they haplessly cast around for votes. But for how long is it entertaining to kick a ball into an empty net?
#13 Jake: I would love to see Salmond v. Galloway, and have suggested it as Labour's salvation. But George has burned too many bridges. Why can't multi-talented people conform to the norms, in any field?
The uncomfortable truth for all parties is that we have a dearth of political talent. Full stop. If AS stood down.....
I don't know the political allegiances of some of our millionaire business leaders, but I'm sure a Hunter or a Bannantyne - if either could be persuaded - would burn his way through the waffle that passes for debate at Holyrood.
Meantime we can only watch as another horizontal heavyweight is lined up to be bludgeoned.
The outcome will provide another opportunity for Annabel to fortify her position as the second big fish in that shallow pool.
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I guess it would be too simple to assume that those voting would select the best, most capable leader?
What next? Shetland Council declares UDI? as they are fed up with being governed by the central belt, hundred of miles away. Feasible? Well there is the Faeroes.
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Already impressed by Andy Kerr's photographic talents, as displayed today i Scotland's Big Picture.
Could his political namesake (?) be set to eclipse his rivals, to bring a gleam of celestial brilliance into the dark void of Labour's woes - and herald an inspirational dawn for his party and country???
Don't hold your breath. :-)
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11 and 15
The irony is that until recently such an arrangement was put forward as the best way to save the Scottish Tories, now all of a sudden the once all powerful Scottish Labour Party find themselves in a similar position!
The Scottish Parliament was John Smith's great project, Blair didn't like it as it went against his control freak mentality. Labour devolved power to Scotland, Wales and London, in all 3 cases it has been typified by a determination by control events in the new institution and install sock puppets who would follow orders and in all 3 cases it's backfired on them! As has been said here and elsewhere Labour is the most centralised of the unionist parties. Labour were the ones who split over the 79 referendum and I think that most of the party only went along with devolution so as to exploit the Scots Tories' weakness after 1987. The irony is that the arch unionist Tories have embraced devolution to a greater extent with the result that Annabel Goldie has operational freedom that Wendy Alexander could only dream of. Alexander seemed to realise this with her "bring it on" call but she had the ground pulled from under her by Gordon Brown when he wouldn't back her when pressed by Cameron at PMQ's. I think Alexander knew what way the tide was running and the only way to regain the initiative was to confront the SNP head on on the issue of independence instead of being in denial about it. However, Brown's duplicity and her own troubles meant that no one took her seriously.
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#22 Blogpolice
"What next? Shetland Council declares UDI?"
The difference being the current government are engaging the people to give them the idea that they are not being governed from the Central Belt.
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Iain MacWhirter has an occasional blog which is worth a look.
http://iainmacwhirter2.blogspot.com/
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Re #19 forfar-loon
"the scribbled-on-the-back-of-a-fag-packet version of devolution that Labour cobbled together"
Nicely put, but you give too much credit to those ignoble scribes. The sad thing is that it set the tone for so many NuLab initiatives which came after it by defining the sole objective as "keeping Labour in power".
It's fortunate for Scotland that the implementation of PR to ensure Labour's future (hasn't that worked well!) meant that first the LibDems in coalition and now the SNP got enough of a foot in the door to start making Holyrood work as it was not intended to.
Too late now for Labour, I think.
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Re #21 brigadierjohn
Some good ideas there.
Could Annabel offer a home to the lost Scottish Labour MSPs by merging her Tories with them and forming a new Scottish Unionist Party?
On the latest poll, they'd have 44% ahead of the SNP's 38%. Not sure it would last, though.
I have to agree that it's mean to intrude on private grief, it's fun nonetheless.
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Re #27, Brownedov
Too late now for Labour, I think.
Fingers crossed.
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#22 Blogpolice
Yes, you're right.
It would be "too simple to assume that those voting would select the best, most capable leader?"
Because Labour is such an intensely centralised party, it's very difficult for their members in any section of it to speak openly. They have to speak in code. Hence to understand what they are saying, you have to know the code. It's rather like studying that even more centralised monolith the (ex)USSR, where special "Kremlinologists" were needed to analyse the implications of who stood where on the podium.
If Shetland want to go their own way completely, or to have some kind of Federal/Confederal structure with Scotland, that's OK.
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Re #24 garethm2
Well put.
In particular, I think the "bring it on" PMQ's will not only go down in history as the moment when "Duff" Gordon lost the plot and next the premiership but also will be long remembered as the beginning of the split between the Scottish Labour Party and the English & Welsh one.
From your previous post and from what I can see for myself, the Welsh split may not be delayed too much longer, with the Labour AMs starting to agree with Plaid over the need for SP-style powers as the next step.
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#28 Brownedov
As I sit here eating Canadian Girl Guide cookies (don't ask), I think that your joking post has put the last bit of the puzzle in place for me.
In this post-modernist (impressive or what?) society, politics needs to be defined differently from the late 19th and 20th century model that still traps most parties.
How does this sound as a set of constructs to understand what is happening in Scotland?
Labour is collapsing because of its centralism, not its socialism. There is a genuine constituency of socialists - SSP, Solidarity, Cathy Jamieson's Labour, whose voice needs to be heard, but can only exist outwith British Labour.
Labour's target driven, micro management epitomises their centralist approach, and has been thoroughly rejected by Labour councils, who embraced the Covenant with COSLA.
Scottish Tories are comfortable with Salmond because (while British) they are, at heart decentralists and pragmatists.
The Lib-Dems sold their soul by going into alliance with centralist target-driven Labour, and unless they return very rapidly to Liberal decentralist values, they will lose the Highlands and Borders to the SNP.
The real "war" is not between the Nationalist and Unionist parties, but between the centralists (Labour, SSP, Lib-Dems etc) and the de-centralists (SNP, Tories, Liberals, Greens).
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Re #26 oldnat
I have to agree that it's very well stated and recommend anyone too lazy to copy & paste the URL to click on Iain Macwhirter Now and Then.
I liked your comment there, too, but my favourite was from the Nat canvasser who was worried that Scottish Labour are putting up such a poor show in opposition.
The SNP are doing very well but should be held to account in Holyrood and not provided with slapstick light relief by their opponents.
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"Each of the three contenders - Iain Gray, Cathy Jamieson and Andy Kerr - has talent and experience."
Brian, don't try to kid us on, we know better. Ian McWhirter got it right when he said it was a contest between also rans. None of them is bright enough or has the strength of character to take on Salmond, and you know it! The Labour party has long rewarded loyalty over ability, and here is the result. A contest between folk who should have peaked at local councillor level. Oh dear.
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I wonder who London has decided is going to be the new leader of the dead party in Scotland.Not that it makes a lot of difference, none of the contenders have any particular talent and will be easy meat for Alec Salmond. Come to think about it apart from the afore mentioned, is there another politician in Scotland of any stature? Goldie might just slip in with wee Nicola but there is no one else with any degree of talent who would benefit Scotland. Now that Brown and his lapdog chancellor are heading for oblivion there is going to be a considerable lack of meaningfull Scottish representation in the house of commons as well
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Re #32 oldnat
How did you guess that my #28 might not have been 100% serious?
You could have hit on something there. I need to think about it more seriously, but I'll come back to you on it.
It may be a part of the reason I've been uneasy about the Liberal - SDP merger for the past 20 years, in a way I would never have had doubts about a coalition with any of the parties you name for implementation of a specifc agenda.
An SNP - Tory coaltion in Holyrood really would make some waves in the politics of the UK.
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For an interesting report on the collapse of Welsh Labour (sorry, Labour in Wales) membership see
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2008/07/08/welsh-labour-s-dwindling-ranks-revealed-in-report-91466-21300692/
There are clearly SNP researchers digging hard and posting links on both the Herald and Scotsman websites (in amongst the dross of name-calling). Interestingly, virtually the same Unionist comments appear on both sites (under different names, and implying different parties Labour in the West, Tory in the East). They are not the sort of comments that I would expect a decent Conservative to use, and I would not want any of my servants to see them!
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Re my #16 and #20 on Labour membership in Scotland.
The source I was drawing on (clearly SNP insider), has recalculated as follows
UK membership nos. 158 868 Entire UK membership revenue before split 4,447,000 GBP (2007)
Scottish Labour membership revenue 114,403 GBP x 3 to account for split = 343 209 GBP
So percentage sum to Scotland is 7.72%
7.72% of UK membership base (158,868) is 12,264, taking a pro rata estimate.
Scotland has roughly 12,264 Labour members and sinking.
SNP membership as of March 08 stood at 14,183
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re.32 by oldnat.
It is suggested that the Labour Party (or at least, sections of it) have something to do with "socialism". I think this is entirely untrue. Over the last century or so, Labourites have embraced countless wars pitting working men of different countries against one another. They have presided over class-divided society, have tried to adminster capitalism better than the Tories while all the while the vast majority have remained wage-slaves.
The "Scottish" Labour leadership contest is an irrelevance to most people; some might argue that only sheep need leaders !
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On the plus side, this is one election that a labour candidate stands a good chance of winning.
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Gray, Jamieson, Kerr....it's like watching the Titanic through the thick end of binoculars.
Whilst the SNP takes its views out to the country and beyond, challenging its audience to think outside the box, Labour is still trying to find someone with some semblance of competence to lead the party.
Forget personality. Forget policies. Forget character. Let's start with someone, anyone, in the labour party who can talk about their country as more than just a shopping basket of political boxes to be ticked and dropped into the trolley for future consuption.
This country of ours has been undervalued and under- invested for 50 years.
We still run way behind the rest of Europe in health, employment prospects, infrastructure and wealth creation.
We still export our most valuable asset for next to no compensation...no, not oil...people.
And yet what we have here is still, unbelievably, a dynamic, original and most gloriously resourced land, equipped in its culture and institutions to be ten times the contributor to the planet that it is today.
Set the people free and watch what happens.
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Brian;
"Each is a decent despatch box performer."
"As to policy, Cathy Jamieson is demonstrating signs of reflecting her Left-wing credentials, masked somewhat during the constraints of serving in government."
Iain Gray,
"Admittedly, this breadth of opportunity only arose after he was liberated by the electorate in 2003."
Faint praise indeed!
#18 old nat, a very interesting aside
Its clear that both Cathy Jamieson and especially Andy Kerr are fully paid up members of "The West of Scotland Labour Mafia". Perhaps Iain Gray's strength in Fife, Central and the Lothians (his own backyard) confirms that he has Brown's backing as is rumoured? Is that the kiss of death, before the start of the contest?
And all three are running away from Wendy's "bring it on" commitment!
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#26, #37 oldnat: thanks for the link to Iain McWhirter's blog and also to the article on Welsh Labour membership. Both very interesting reads.
As was your #32. Ten years of Labour pretending to be Tories has surely alienated their core socialist support. In England there isn't really an alternative to go to, unlike in Scotland. Bagehot puts it well in this week's Economist for those who have access to it. The conclusion is that armageddon for Labour is less likely (at least on a British scale) than ArmaGordon.
Anyone pining for Gorgeous George to ride to Labour's rescue will have a long wait I suspect. On the other hand I wouldn't be surprised to see John Reid becoming more involved in Scottish politics if Labour's slide continues.
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I see Andy Kerr is placing Child Care at the centre of his campaign. Always thought this would be about caring for Labour MSPs.
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"Scottish Labour's general secretary, Colin Smyth, said the leadership contenders were "very strong candidates". "
Well he would, wouldn't he?
"Launching his campaign, Mr Kerr set out plans for £360m investment to provide 800 hours of free nursery care for youngsters."
Another load of weans to be sidelined by parents who would rather have a car each and Continental holidays than do the most important job in life and, we who can't afford either, will pay for it both now and later, when the children get older and show their resentment at their parent's neglect.
No mention of Council tax which is the SNP's trump card - Labour must be in a real quandry over this issue - they know it's wrong and immoral but can't now back the enemy!
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Our Welsh cousins are obviously having fun at Westminster's expense - making MPs work (poor dears).
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics-news/2008/07/25/mps-fear-welsh-law-orders-are-swamping-westminster-91466-21403348/
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All 3 contenders are London Labour puppets. It will be same old, same old......Prove me wrong !
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I enjoy reading the posts on this blog and occaisionally contributing but I am becoming concerned.
It appears that this blog is increasingly becoming an SNP forum with no one really challenging from opposition.
Where are you all?
Out canvassing for the future Labour Holyrood Puppet....... oops I mean leader. I doubt it. Or are you just going to submit without a fight?
If this blog represents a reflection of Scottish society as a whole it is in some ways quite frightening.
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I see Margaret Curren has a youtube video up in support of Iain Gray...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLROy3KAyHY
...I also note that the text comments have been disabled. What a shame! I could of had some fun with that one *;o)
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It's not a reflection of anything, SNP supporters are more emotionally committed to their cause, that's all.
I also suspect the nationalists make heavy use of astroturfing on blogs like this. Before you condemn me for thinking this, remember that about 40% of the posts on this blog are about an imaginary 'unionist' media bias.
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#50 Anaxim
I said "if".
To add to my thoughts in #48 you have to go to page 16 of this mornings Press and Journal before the Labour leadership contest gets a mention. Gives you an idea of how important the NE sees this contest.
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to add to my #51
page 20 of Scottish Daily Mail before a mention and only a quarter of a page.
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Poster No 12 asks how many Labour MPs are talented enough to lead the party? I'd expand that and ask how many MPs/MSPs have the talent to run the country?
You have to look at the background of MPs and MSPs and ask if they resigned today, would they be capable of working in a private business? And not in an "advisory" role - which is shorthand for a walking address book.
Peter Mandelson is a prime example. Correct me if I am wrong, but few if any companies felt he had any worthwhile experience.
I know that there are quite a few talented individuals out there, but for some reason they remain rooted on the backbenches because they do not follow the politcial agenda of their party.
But to stay on topic. Who will win the Scottish Labour Leader contest? It needs to be someone who will concentrate on attacking the current failures of the SNP Government (and there are a few already). That might just start puncturing Alex Salmond a little.
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The new Labour party leader in Scotland will seek to defend the 1707 Union, just how democratic is the ''Union'' and Labours fight to defend it?
Mob Unrest And Disorder.
Before 1706 reports of unrest and public protest against union were rare. There was an ugly anti-English mood in Edinburgh and elsewhere after the Darien catastrophe in 1700, but no violence.
However, as negotiations for union progressed, the public mood became increasingly volatile, and during 1706 there was frequent civil unrest and disorder in Scottish towns. Union was gaining acceptance among the Scottish governing, commercial and professional classes, but Jacobites and others made the lower social ranks worry about the burden of taxation they would have to bear. Ministers of the Kirk spread more discontent as they began campaigning against union, gathering momentum in the spring of 1706, just as the negotiations began in London.
Protests over the Articles
In October 1706 the Scottish Parliament met to consider the Articles of Union. Publication of the Articles triggered widespread unrest. Violent demonstrations took place outside Parliament House, and inside there were fears that the building would be invaded by protesters.
On 23 October the Edinburgh residence of Sir Patrick Johnstone MP, the former lord provost of the city, was attacked by the mob. Defoe described the Edinburgh mob as 'a hardened, refractory and terrible people'. On several occasions the Duke of Queensberry was pelted with stones, while other Scots MPs were bullied on their way to and from Parliament House.
Troops Sent In.
The Earl of Mar informed Godolphin that 'the opposing party's misrepresenting every Article of the Treaty make the commonalty believe that they will be oppressed with taxes'. Troops were brought in to the city with orders to shoot if necessary, and several regiments were placed at Queensberry's disposal on the Scottish border.
Labour continue their battle cry of fighting ''Social Injustice'', however the reality is vastly different.
Wansanshoo.
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#54 Wansanshoo
"Violent demonstrations took place outside Parliament House, and inside there were fears that the building would be invaded by protesters."
The disorder was so great that MPs couldn't get into Parliament House to sign the Articles of the Treaty of Union, so they went to the Summer House in the garden of the Earl of Moray to sign it.
The summer house is still iround the back of Moray House Campus on the Royal Mile -
unlabelled, forgotten, the repository of unwanted stuff, and just beside the dusrtbins.
How's that for symbolism!
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#54 wanashoo
to add to your post have a read at this link http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/usscotfax/hst/enlightenment.html
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#57 Anaxim
A good point if a little crudely put. This is to some extent a problem which not only arises in Scotland but in other parts of the world and generally where the decadent west has drawn the borders.
I think the romantics will play the 'Union of the Crown card' where the realists are looking to improve the lot of people who genuinely feel that they have been forgotten by the UK parliament. In fact most people north of the Watford Gap probably feel the same but unfortunately for them they are enclosed within the borders of England.
I would be interested to know why you appear to be so pro Union.
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#57 Anaxim
The cut-off point for nationalist disapprobrium is when the inbreds we have today learn how to spell the fancy words they're mis-using.
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57 Anaxim
The Kingdom of Scotland was united in 843, by King Cináed I of Scotland. Over the next 850 years it developed its own legal and educational systems, which still exist to this day, as well as separate monetary and measurement systems.
At first the kingdom was confined to the area north of the Rivers Forth and Clyde. Southwest Scotland remained under the control of the Strathclyde Britons.
Southeast Scotland was under the control from around 638 of the proto-English kingdom of Bernicia, then of the Kingdom of Northumbria. This part of Scotland was contested from the time of Constantine II and finally fell into Scottish hands in 1018, when Máel Coluim II pushed the border as far south as the River Tweed. This remains the south-eastern border to this day (except around Berwick-upon-Tweed).
''Warmongering Inbreds'' is offensive, however, it is of course, to be expected.
Wansanshoo.
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On Union:
Adam Smith; The Wealth of Nations, 1776
Aye, that'll be right!One wonders how many are "aristocracy" and how many are absentees...
Some revealing information on these two questions can be found in Andy Wightman's excellent "Scotland - Land and Power", which reminded me strongly of Tom Paine's Common Sense, the pamphlet which launched the American Declaration of Independence.
Tom Paine's life (part 2) is the subject of this afternoon's Saturday Play on Radio 4. Part one may still be available on "listen again"
Slainte!
ed
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Wansanshoo, (60),
with the notable exception of what is now called Dumfries & Galloway, which remained Welsh, and mainly communicated with the areas presently called Ireland and Cumbria.We had the advantage of being protected on the East by difficult bogs and on the North by the uplands, which kept the Strathclyders off our backs. Apparently the local folk were fierce naked fighters, and rightly feared...
;-)
ed
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This should be an interesting battle, and i think to some extent it is just what the party needs. I think Scottish Labour has became somewhat stale over the past year, Wendy never really had a chance to get going with the nonsense over donations hanging over her.
What i am really hoping for is whoever wins to come out and actualyl challenge the SNP, Wendy occasionally made quite good points but still managed to missthe oportunity to go for the kill and it became a running joke. I think on this point Brian is right, its not as much about abilty to do the job as it is about the ability to perform in the role and actually give Salmond a challenge.
I for one aint planning on casting any ballot until the last minute so i can take the time to work out where each of the candidates is coming from.
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#48 Jake: You're right, the blog is an SNP forum. As you well know, opposition here is not tolerated by some, and dismissed by others.
While many of the SNP supporters are ultra-bright, congenial, good-humoured, and willing to debate, I have found others to be rude, pompous, nasty to the point of abusiveness, and cowardly to the point of running to the mods when confronted.
So Jake, don't be surprised that it's a virtually uncontested SNP forum. But don't be misled into thinking it is any kind of reflection on society. My guess, possibly hopeless (I don't trawl around for pseudo-statistics), is that it might represent about 22-24% of society, not all of them fully committed (although some should be!).
Before anyone dismisses this as the ravings of a visceral and incorrigible unionist, which I am not, just look above at the scathing attacks on The Labour Three. It cannot be fear, so what provokes them?
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Unlike Mike Rumbles of the Liberals no one in the Labour camp is putting forward any fresh, never mind radical ideas.
So quite frankly it's irrelevant who wins it, none will trouble Salmond. The trick for Labour is not to give Salmond the chance to shine by knocking them off their perch at every opportunity, especially FMQs.
The more macho Kerr will feel obliged to throw himself headlong into the Salmond door at every opportunity, no doubt convincing himself that his heroic failures will go down well within the party if not the country.
I wouldn't call Kerr a 'shoe in'.
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#64 brigadier
"It cannot be fear, so what provokes them?"
I think you will find its going in for the kill.
Labour, as I am sure you would agree are a lost cause at the moment.
But politics are fickle and if Good King Alex slips on a banana skin any time between now and the 2010 thing you can be sure the vultures will be out in abundance and there will be a blog reversal.
Me, I'll still vote SNP as I have done for the last 35 years.
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Jake,
And once independence provides me with the opportunity to become a citizen instead of a subject, I'll probably vote for one of the "minority" parties - who knows, maybe even one of the remnants of the inevitably fragmented SNP ;-)Slainte!
ed
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You's showing your age Brigadeer!
Quote, "You're right, the blog is an SNP forum. As you well know, opposition here is not tolerated by some, and dismissed by others.
While many of the SNP supporters are ultra-bright, congenial, good-humoured, and willing to debate, I have found others to be rude, pompous, nasty to the point of abusiveness, and cowardly to the point of running to the mods when confronted.
"
... sorry mate, the blog simply personifies the current political environment. The SNP just so happen to be the only party with policies which actually make sence. Ultimately it has nothing to do with the political future of Scotland (not yet anyway), but has more to do with Labour lies and this not being the will of the Scottish people.
when your long gone and looking down on us all (if you believe in that hoodoo?) then you WILL see an Independant Scotland... it is just a matter of time!
Saor Alba!
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Ps John, I think the 'scathing attacks' as you put it are actually SNP supporters having a laugh. come on mate, your not suggesting that any of the Labour contestants are going to be any less entertaining than Bendy?
We have Labour in a Pythonesque mess, combined with an SNP administration who are focussed on doing a good job, means that we get the best of both worlds... a competent and trustworth government and a hell of a good laugh, all at the same time.
...Makes voting worthwhile doncha think???
*;o)
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#66 Jake: Did you by any chance see the new series about Henry VIII last night? In one scene an archbishop referred to a dead bishop. "He was not universally popular, to the extent that some people dug up his dead body and stabbed it repeatedly." I laughed out loud.
What kill, exactly, are SNP people hoping to achieve? Overkill? The public respects a victor, abhors a bully. Witness any "wee" team scoring against Scotland at Murrayfield.
As for the banana skin, nothing so tangible has appeared. But I notice Oor Alex getting tetchy on FMQs. Once he would rise, cock his head, smirk to his own benches and deliver a stinging put-down. Now he transfixes his accuser with an angry stare and delivers a diatribe that rarely addresses the question. Pressure?
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#68 BoNGO_1: You make my point beautifully. Jake declined to address it, you rubbished it. Like I said, mate, an SNP forum.
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#69: I have tried for ages to get people to laugh at themselves, me included. But I think some SNP people would rather be stabbed than laughed at. Sorry Bongo, I don't detect much humour in your wilder fringes. But keep making my arguments for me, by all means.
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#70 brigadier
You are forgetting, we don't have independence yet thus we are contuing to go in for the kill until labour has been expunged from holyrood. Now if that's overkill that's fine by me.
With ref to your somewhat skewed view of oor Alex's performances at FMQs, is this not a case of only seeing what you want to see.
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I agree Brigadeer, it probably is, but that is because the majority of people are now Scottish Nationalists rather than Scottish Labourites... and to be honest, SNP supporters are more passionate and proud of this country.
This is why the SNP are the Government, because the people who are at the helm and throughout the SNP are inherently and simply supporters of a better Scotland.
In stark contrast to the old guard of Lib-Lab-Tory who are a tired establishment who simply re-gurgitate the same old guff because it is all they ever knew. We (the Scottish people) have a noble purpose and a momentum built on confidence, honesty and pride.
This is a movement bigger than any political party (including the SNP), it is a Scottish movement which would have happened sooner or later, SNP or no SNP. Just so happens that the SNP currently provide the vessel to carry the Scottish peoples ambitions.
I for one intend to enjoy the journey to the max *;o)
... It always gets me that we all agree that one day Scotland will be independant, yet there are those who would delay striking while the iron is hot? Get it together folks, no time like right now to start working on a better future.
Regards,
Bongo *;o)
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#73: Jake: Fair's fair - I only saw the last moments of FMQs, and might well have been impressed earlier. But I would have said so. Definitely not seeing what I want to see. In fact, I accept the purely political points you make. A bit of stating the bleedin' obvious, you could say.
It was yourself who raised this topic of whether it's an SNP forum. I was trying to address that narrow point, when I asked, I paraphrase, what's the point of making an opposing argument when it's rubbished or suppressed without debate? And what's the point of kicking Labour on an almost exclusive SNP medium that few others will see?
As for society and the real world, right now more people are concerned about the performances, relative and individual, of Rangers and Celtic than the trivial pursuits of Labour and the SNP!
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#75 brigadier are you the opposition or are you just using a wooden spoon to whip up the masses.
I have a sneaky suspicion that you actually support independence but don't want to admit to it for whatever reason.
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#76 Jake: Wow! That's one from left field! I am a classic "don't know" a perennial "floating voter." I once voted for Margaret Bain, the late Mrs Ewing, because she was the outstanding candidate. It's always the person for me, never the party. The day I'm convinced about independence, I'll vote for it. Have no doubt.
But you don't really believe I would endure the abuse I get if I was closet SNP? I remember the heady days when Sir Hugh Fraser flirted with the Nats and postboxes exploded. A broad church indeed! I'm unconvinced by displays of unity in the party today, partly because of the past.
I can see and identify the fringes of the Big Two, but I don't know enough about SNP infighting to understand who might eventually triumph, and where they'd want to take me.
Meanwhile, I'll shoulder my wooden spoon and march out to enjoy a lovely Saturday afternoon.
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Iain Gray has a total of 13 votes, 8 male and 5 female.
Cathy Jamieson has a total of 12 votes, 4 male and 8 female.
Andy Kerr has a total of 10 votes, 7 male and 3 female.
Taking into account
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Iain Gray has a total of 13 votes, 8 male and 5 female.
Cathy Jamieson has a total of 12 votes, 4 male and 8 female.
Andy Kerr has a total of 10 votes, 7 male and 3 female.
Who should Labour ''positively discriminate'' against and why ?
Wansanshoo
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Bongo, (74),
I truly hope you, at least, listened to the Tom Paine I recommended above! Your #74 has a bit of the ring of his writing - truly.
Meanwhile, i, being a very long-time admirer of Mr Paine, am still drying tears from my eyes. I think I'll "listen again" in a couple of days. Stirring stuff.
Slainte!
ed
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Whast you said ed thats 45 mins and the mods are still deciding?
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The mods, although possessing Godlike powers, also have to eat sometimes...
;-)
ed
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#80 Ed: I hope Bongo is suitably humbled at being compared to Tom Paine by someone of your erudition. His address to me did have something of the old-time pamphleteer about it, and none the worse for it.
Paine was a man of his time. Mightily impressed by the French Revolution, but his thoughts still have resonance, the power to move men, as you indicated.
However, a latter-day Tom Paine might observe: You have your human rights, your universal suffrage - so go and vote for what you want.
Ah, yes. But there's still the inconvenience of winning the argument.
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#83: I think I may have meant to say "compared with Tom Paine."
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Brigadier,
I suspect, Bongo's reaction may be a bit like mine - I'm proud to be called erudite, but would express (feign) humility ;-)
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So, someone finds my comment about 'warmongering inbreds' offensive. It's simply a way of putting the point across that if the Act of Union was undemocratic, then the creation of Scotland was really, really undemocratic.
Jake-the-saltire asks why I appear pro-Union.
Independence is about taking all the mistakes of the past and repeating them, under the misguided notion that this time, things will be different. The same fetish for inward investment, the same obsession with traditional industries, the same soppy romanticism and the same empty-headed chauvinism. We'll do them all again, harder. And they still won't work.
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Anaxim:
"Independence is about taking all the mistakes of the past and repeating them."
Course it is. If you say so, then I am sure even those young supporters of Independence feel the same way. People who never lived in the past will be banging on First Ministers Salmonds door demanding to return back to Industries that they only know about from history books. The country shall begin building Castles and we will be back in the medival times because Nationalists never look forward.
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You said:
"Each of the three contenders - Iain Gray, Cathy Jamieson and Andy Kerr - has talent and experience".
Problem is; none of them have the ability.
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#88 Its not just about ability and certainly not about policy. The real question is whether either of them can provide the leadership which Labour in Scotland (inside Holyrood or not) and that goes well beyond managing to avoid a fit of the vapours every time Wee Eck says Boo!
The Labour party is in trouble north and south of the border for two reasons (a) its intellectually bankrupt and (b) it lacks a leader capable of leading them anywhere.
This curious business of the "rumours" over a state funeral for Margaret Thatcher stinks of a cunning plan so cunning that it could only have been dreamt up by the truly desperate. Whatever your personal view of her legacy there's no doubting her iconic status as a hate-figure for the left and especially in Scotland. But as she isn't actually dead yet I reckon we can safely assume that this manufactured row is all about resurrecting a bogey in the hope that memories of her premiership will frighten the voters back into the Labour fold - I did say they are desperate.
The trouble of course is that in Scotland we can all see that there's a perfectly competent alternative to Labour which doesn't involve the Tories or Thatcher's ghost
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#86 Anaxim
I saw your #57 before I went out for the day, and am fairly shocked that it has been referred. I thought you were making a valid point about "historical" nationalism, and its inherent inconsistencies.
For every individual, their understanding of history (amongst other things) has helped to mould their "national identity".
Mine is primarily Scottish. Yours (if I've understood you right) is primarily British. Neither stance is intrinsically "better" than the other.
However, the political question is not the past, but the future. Do a majority of those living in Scotland prioritise their Scottish identity in a political sense? We'll have to wait and see, regardless of what you or I think as individuals.
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Awright guys,
Not so sure I can be likened with anyone, but have taken it as a compliment and at the same time have avoided any embarrassment? but only due to my anonymity on this blog.
Now if you had likened me to my modern day hero Ron Paul, then I think I would have been bowled over by that one! I guess however that you have a fair bit of intuition Ed, as it appears that Ron Paul is singing from the same song sheet as Tom Paine, although with one huge difference? Ron Paul is a Libertarian (despite being a Republican), a constitutionalist and specifically and vehemently anti-war. (Bit like me!)
If you don?t know who Ron Paul is, then it is because the corporate media did everything in their power to prevent his exposure in the main stream and the message grew independently on the internet. Check out the following.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG2PUZoukfA
? and if anyone does not know ron paul, you can watch his interview at the Google HQ here.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCM_wQy4YVg
It is interesting that the sentiment is very similar in a lot of ways to the SNP agenda. Possibly in this media dominated world, where information goes global almost instantaneously, then the Ron Paul Revolution in the US is just another branch of the same global revolutionary tree that the SNP and Scottish people are currently part of?
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Bongo,
It was indeed intended as a compliment. I regard Common Sense as the best political pamphlet ever written, and I've read quite a few.
And I've been found of Ron Paul for at least ten years, since my Floridian brother brought him to my notice. Pity about the chances for snowballs in Hell. I was also rather amused by Mike Gravell, but there's more substance to Paul. Too old now, anyway.
Even though I expect disappointment, I look forward to the New Marlboro Man. ;-)
G'night all
BOO!
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#92 Ed
Have you been following threnodios's idea of a serious blog on Nick Robinson's thread? You would have a lot to offer.
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Cheers Ed, and good night all...
... night John boy!(The Brigadier) LOL
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Scotland on Sunday today with reference Labour in Scotland wresting more powers for London seems to have split the party in Scotland with opposers warning it "was part of an attempt to create "SNP Mark TWO""
Apparently Andy Kerr's MP Adam Ingram with whom he shares an office has insisted that "the vacant post is for leader of MSPs at Holyrood, not for the leader in Scotland."
I truly feel sorry for Kerr who I think is right in his demands for more powers.
For Labour it seems there is no democracy.
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Labour are falling into the trap that all political parties do when there is a leadership contest - they forget that their primary responsibility is to their constituents, not their party.
But whoever becomes leader could get off to a flying start. Get them to ask Alex Salmond why the SNP have decided not to re-regulate buses. This was something that they promoted quite heavily. But for some reason that all changed when they gained power, but of course nothing to do with a donation they received.
That is the areas that a party in opposition must address. Labour keep acting as if they are in power north of the border, which in some respects they are.
One other point on the leadership campaign. Labour activists would do well to find out which one of the three candidates actually is more appealing. Why do you think the SNP accepted Alex Salmond as the leader?
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Neil,
Because he's simply the best!Despite the Brigadier's observations, I'm impressed how he has managed to keep his sharp sense of humour (with a hint of self-mocking) and at the same time has grown in "gravitas". He is as good as any other politician on the British scene, and, Goldie aside, stands head and shoulders above the rest on the Scottish scene - my not-so-humble opinion, of course.
The 'top job' in any party, and particularly that of FM, PM, President, etc., is demanding beyond anything most of us can even imagine, as witness the visible aging effect on those who reach such heights, even the idiot presently occupying the White House. Why do sane folk want the job?
;-)
ed
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#97 Neil_Small147
Good point about bus deregulation (though I must admit I'm not au fait with the arguments).
However, since there is a minority government (a situation I much prefer to single party or coalition monolith government), why does Labour not put the issue to the Parliament, and seek the support of other parties?
Could it be that the problem is as Tom McCabe describes in today's article in the Sunday Herald?
London Labour is a substitute Tory party, and Labour in Scotland are too scared or constitutionally incapable to stand up to them.
While I currently vote SNP because I want to be rid of the UK level of government, I don't support them uncritically and it would be good for Scotland to have an effective opposition
Unless Labour in Scotland become a real Scottish Labour, I can't see that happening.
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Oldnat,
Are you my long lost twin, or something? As to having "an" effective opposition, I would prefer to see a half-dozen cogent oppositions in the form of 'minority' parties. Having a single 'official' opposition puts us back on the road to "yah-boo".I just LOVE minority government (if we must have government at all) ;-)
You would think, that with thousands of years of civilisation, we would have gotten all the laws we needed written by now....but, ever since some idiot copied down what Hesiod and Homer were singing, lawyers have multiplied like fruit flies.
Slainte
ed
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#99
Ed how do you do those nice blue links?
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Jake,
It's all explained here, and don't forget to be very afraid!
;-)#
ed
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
@90
"Mine is primarily Scottish. Yours (if I've understood you right) is primarily British. Neither stance is intrinsically "better" than the other."
No, the idea of primary identities is a nationalist one, as is the idea that identities should shape political life. My stance is liberal humanism, rather than identity politics.
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#103 Anaxim
Interesting point. I'd describe myself as a liberal humanist too, though I think the phrase probably encompasses a wide range of philosophical stances.
What is your take on political structures? Should we simply accept whatever institutions we inherited from our forefathers? or design rational units (and if so on what basis)?
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#67 Ed Iglehart
Who knows, maybe even one of the remnants of the inevitably fragmented SNP.
Ed please can you expand on this statement I am a bit light on Scottish political history, especially SNP history.
What makes you think they will fragment?
Slainte Mhor
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Roll_On,
Just my opinion, but held with a fair degree of certainty. I reckon the main glue holding SNP together is the desire to see an independent Scotland, and that, once that's achieved, there will be inevitable differences about the "next steps", e.g. further 'devolution' with regard to local government, etc.As indicated in previous comments, I embrace the idea of a Parliament with no hope of ever seeing a single-party "majority", and hopefully little likelihood of even a two-party cobbled-together-coalition...I like to see things dealt with issue-by-issue, with a minimum of dogma and a maximum of consideration of all sides.
The past three-plus decades have brought us masses of legislation, little of which seems destined to be regarded as of any lasting value, and much of it implemented in order to undo the work of the preceding partisan work...
Slainte!
ed
Further clarification
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#101 Ed, I have tried but don't know the outcome. Do you need a particular version of Windows?
descriptive text
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#101 Ed, I have tried but don't know the outcome. Do you need a particular version of Windows?
price of bread
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Jake,
The wee "helpful hints" page is not restricted to any "platform", e.g. windoze, linux, Mac, etc. The HTML advice there all mostly works on the bbc blog pages (and on blogspot blogs
, except the "blockquote"), the only one which sometimes doesn't is <i><b>bold italic</i></b>, which seems sometimes to cause comment failure. (it failed this one!)
I think Autohotkey
works with all versions of windoze, but I've only used it with xp. I thoroughly recommend it.
Give it a try, and let me know if you have problems.
Slainte
ed
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#106 Ed Iglehart
Thanks Ed. With regards your feedback I have some reading to do!
Your last two paragraphs are spot on. Over the last 3 decades we have had governments with massive majorities and a corresponding weak or non-existent opposition.
If government had smaller majorities or shared power, and/or credible opposition, then they would have to raise the bar on what they want to introduce or at least have to fight for the more contentious issues!
Slainte Mhath!
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oldnat asks
"What is your take on political structures? Should we simply accept whatever institutions we inherited from our forefathers? or design rational units (and if so on what basis)?"
It's not so important that the political units be rational, as in they behave in a reasonably rational way. Liberal democracy is the best known way to achieve this, with second chambers, written constitutions, etc.
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