Labour lagging in by-election race
This is, as Labour is painfully aware, no way whatsoever to run a by-election.
Particularly a Westminster by-election which, let us remind ourselves, could help determine the political future of the Prime Minister.
All week, Labour in Scotland has been quietly tipping that Councillor George Ryan would be the candidate in Glasgow East. The selection, it appeared, was a formality. Solid, local man, we were assured. Sorted.
Come the selection meeting on Friday night. No George. The selection is postponed, confirming, if confirmation were needed, that the other two on the shortlist were makeweights. No George, no selection.
This morning, Saturday, Councillor Ryan formally withdrew, citing reasons of family pressure.
For pity's sake, did nobody in Scottish Labour think to ask the putative candidate, in considerable detail, whether he was ready to step up to the plate?
Given the significance of this contest, did nobody ask him in absolutely explicit terms whether there was any obstacle to his seeking nomination? Or did they ask and receive assurances which subsequently proved to be worthless?
Labour can, of course, recover from this. At the very least, however, they have started this contest in a fine guddle. And they have lost a vital weekend to parade their candidate - in a campaign which they chose to truncate.
Who next, then? Councillor Steven Purcell, the leader of Glasgow City Council, was heavily tipped. He will not be the candidate.
For why would you give up the certainty of leading Scotland's largest council for the hideous rigours of a by-election which Labour might lose, effectively blighting your own career?
No such qualms, it would appear, will deter Margaret Curran MSP.
She has announced she wants her name on the shortlist of contenders.
She is from the East End, she is the MSP for Baillieston, in the East End. She is also a putative candidate for the vacant leadership of Labour in the Scottish Parliament.
Why would she stand? To help her party out of a self-dug hole. To earn the undying gratitude of the PM, should she win.
Should she lose, presumably she would continue as an MSP, thwarted but gallus.
What if she wins? Would she then resign from Holyrood and cause a further by-election in Baillieston?
Labour declines to speculate on that issue for now, saying that she is only a potential name on a shortlist.
However, given Labour's pursuit of Alex Salmond over being both an MP and an MSP, it might be rather difficult for Ms Curran to retain a dual mandate. It might, I would suspect, be raised once or twice during the contest.
Again, what a way to run a by-election.
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Brian, you have to be joking surely!
Margaret Curran as MP, MSP, and Party Leader in Scotland? After the mock-indignation and hysterical personal attacks on Alex Salmond for precisely the same thing?
In addition, she is not even up to the job she presently has, never mind another two!
I have heard of making a little go a long way but this is ridiculous!
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'...Labour can, of course, recover from this....'
Yeah!..........course they can, Brian!
Especially when they have the BBC batting for them.
Whatever happened to 'balanced journalism'
I remember your 'support' for Bendy Wendy............wasn't she also supposed to 'recover from this'? LOL
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Love the blogs Brian - they keep me awake when im on nightshift ! I just checked my emails and there on Yahoo news is the story of the candidates withdrawel with a picture of ....... Tommy Sheridan ! Hopefully the SNP will take this one. Cheers
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Brown is finished in the UNITED KINGDOM
He must call an election at the earliest moment, The British electorate entrusted his party with enorous majorities and he and his colleages abused that privilege.
The Tories will win the next General Election and quite rightly so, but no Govenment should again be allowed such power as it will lead as we have seen to poor Government.
As for the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly together with their toy town politicians must be disbanded and the next Government must again unite this nation
Talk of reducing the powers of English MP's is total rubbish
Let us all work together and repair our great nation, and move forward as one United Kingdom
We are one Nation
Just what have these people done to our once beautiful county
Is there a Politician out there with the courage to right this wrong
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Jing's and help ma boab Brian, your own D C Thomson's couldn't have come up with a better comic strip than this.
Ryan, fearful of what the Sunday Herald may be printing about the allegations in 'Halls of Infamy' does a runner, Purcell who has admitted Labour in Glasgow can no longer run the council as it has stays put to, no doubt thinking the Union break up is only a couple of years away, Biggles flies away undone and Magrat Currant screams her way in like a banshee.
The carrier project will have no impact on the jobless in Glasgow East and little in Govan. Apart from the mess, the Commonwealth games likewise as the locals will not be able to afford tickets for the venues or the licenses to sell the associated Commonwealth Games tat.
Where does that leave Labour's master plan? Brown is staying away because he understands he is a liability, Darling is the thick and steaming with the NAO refusing to sign off the Treasury books, Wee Dougy is unlikely to turn up because of the keech his sister has stirred up, OK David Cairns' Celtic connection should help, possibly.
I just can not see the Labour big hitter who would want to share a platform with Magrat - unless it is a ploy to shift her from Holyrood after all the innuendo that she stuck the knife in Wendy.
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How old are you, Brian? I'd never heard of the word "guddle", but I looked it up and my dictionary lists it as a 19th Century expression!
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Have to agree SilentHunter2... Brian, this is a very biased blog I'm afraid. Your turn of phrase.. "For pity's sake, did no one..." suggests you wish Labour had made sure the candidate wanted to step up to the plate. But, of course, as an un-biased observer you should be netural on how well the Labour party runs its selection process - if they do it badly it is no concern of yours, you should merely report the facts as they are - i.e. they made a balls up of it. But please don't show how much you regret that!
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The bias is incredible. Perhaps the BBC would make better use of the license payers money by asking how is that a bankrupt Labour Party can fund a bye- election campaign?
Oh sorry how stupid of me they do it by creaming expenses off the hard working honest tax payers of Glasgow East!Is there a John Lweis store in that part of the world by any chance?
Ah no? then that might explain a reluctance of Labour members to stand?
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Re #7 from jamesallen236
Ditto on agreement and your comment, but the "Labour man quits by-election race" on the News Pages is rather fairer.
I don't often agree with the Tories but there's alovely quote from them in the article:
"They are clueless at Westminster, leaderless in Scotland and now without a candidate.
What a shambles. What an excuse for a political party."
Now that's fair and balanced!
Any updates from the bookies, yet? Evens on the SNP from last night is now looking pretty generous.
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Truly touching to read the Nationalists expressing concern for Labour!
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Re #10 from MaliceTown
Well, they could be afraid that Labour implodes completely before they're ready for the referendum.
Could they even be planning another McAvity by leaving it too late to name a candidate and so "accidentally" losing the seat instead of having their noses rubbed in it?
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Brochgales # 8 - if you think this is bad you obviously weren't reading during the Alexander debacle.
Apart from anything else, how does he know they can recover from this?
It betrays the breathtakingly arrogant mindset of those who despite all that has happened recently simply refuse to stop trying to pull the wool over the public's eyes.
It's an ongoing attempt to keep alive the false belief that Labour are still in a position of political strength in this country - no matter how incompetent they are or how badly they abuse the trust of the Scottish public.
If anyone in Glasgow East can still believe it's a good idea to vote for this shambles called the Labour "party" then there really is no hope for this country.
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Agree with #5 slaintemha. DC Thomson would be hard pushed to come up with this.
Mind you could breathe new life into the Broons.
Gordon as Pa, Margaret Curran as Ma, Malcolm Chisholm as Hen, Wendy as Daphne (resemblance is uncanny), Douglas as Joe, Andy Kerr and Iain Gray as the twins, Wee Cathy as the Bairn, Des Browne as Horace. Of course the doddery Grandpaw could only be George Foulkes.
Every week they would get into scrapes of their own making.
Sounds perfect, but for one thing, the real Broons are a HAPPY family. Couldn't really say that for the Labour Party in Scotland...
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I don't think it's either fair or accurate to accuse Brian Taylor of bias. I've always found this blog to be frank and balanced. The BBC on the whole, on the other hand, have really disgraced themselves over the last fortnight. The absolutely shameful bias in the coverage of Wendy Alexander's resignation, coupled with fiascos like the most recent Question Time, have shown the BBC up as an unashamedly Unionist organisation, perhaps understandably so as it fears being chopped up should Scotland become independent. But I think it's wrong to tar Mr Taylor with the same brush.
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#11 Brownedov
Who knows, couldn't believe their news this morning so anything might happen
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I think this is a very sorry situation, not just for the Labour party but the UK as a whole. The fact that Labour aren't even gelled together enough to simply get a candidate organised to stand in one by-election really seems to me that the cracks are starting to show.
Labour in Scotland, although rivalling the SNP in terms of numbers, have no coherence and are facing one issue after another, including the resignation of Wendy Alexander. Scottish Labour are showing themselves to be divided, indecisive and wavering in the face of the near, I hate to say it, unstoppable SNP.
I dislike the SNP and am a very strong Unionist. I put my Britishness before my Scottishness and believe that Alex Salmond and his band of anti-English lunatics are extremely dangerous people, and it makes me wonder about the Scottish electorate if these people even managed to win in the first place (albeit by a very narrow margin). I am in favour of devolution with local issues delegated to Holyrood but, in my mind, independence is a total no-no and I hope that Westminster, the Queen and the EU put their collective feet down and prevent it from happening. The SNP want to break up the UK for the sake of Scottish nationalism and nothing else, it's pathetic, petty, irrational and unjustified. It makes me ashamed to be Scottish to hear all this anti-English nonsense and independence this independence that, when Salmond is just backtracking on every promise and assurance he gave the electorate back in May 2007. Everything the SNP does is to discredit Labour to fool people into believing that SNP and independence are the only and best way forward when this is quite clearly not true; there are other avenues and options which are being denied to us by Salmond. If Scotland ends up as an independent nation I will cancel any citizenship I am offered or given and will leave. That is a definite promise, I've lived here my whole life anyway and it's time to move on.
For these reasons I am very concerned about Labour's situation indeed. If they implode in Scotland, there goes SNP opposition and all this nonsense will be allowed to proceed unfettered and virtually unopposed, unless the Tories and Lib Dems step forward to fill the vacuum left behind in Holyrood. Labour down South isn't in a healthy state either, things are definitely not looking too good for Gordon Brown and his cabinet and support for the Tories appears to be on the up. This, of course, affects Labour throughout the whole UK but has the added benefit of the Conservatives picking up the slack would mean a breath of fresh air for England but also will help to spur the Scottish Conservatives along to stand up to Salmond.
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How can Margaret Curran possibly commit herself simulataneously to a future in Westminster politics while holding ambitions to be Scottish leader.Presumably if she were elected party leader in september she would have to give up the Glasgow East seat she had only just won at the next UK election,less than 2 years away.It would be treating the people of Glasgow East with contempt, in my opinion.If she were to be elected an MP I assume she would therefore rule herself out of the party leadership election.
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Brian
Since the SNP candidate has all the attributes that Labour thought were vital for this election, i.e. local man, elected councilor etc should all ex labour voters now back him?
Interesting comments from Tommy Sheridan that he thought that his party would not win this election, but that he would have no problem with an SNP victory. How many thousands of votes will that give the SNP.
Really highlights what most of us have known for the last year, Labours grass roots have deserted them, just as the Labour party has deserted the grass roots.
Run a country? run an election campaign? Labour could not run a bath without a set of instructions. Time Wendy was put up for the seat, that would be the final nail.
Its time.
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How can Margaret Curran possibly commit herself simulataneously to a future in Westminster politics while holding ambitions to be Scottish leader.Presumably if she were elected party leader in september she would have to give up the Glasgow East seat she had only just won at the next UK election,less than 2 years away.It would be treating the people of Glasgow East with contempt, in my opinion.If she were to be elected an MP I assume she would therefore rule herself out of the party leadership election.
On the other hand if she is the Labour candidate in the by-election and loses,she could hardly come across as a very strong candidate as leader of the party in Scotland.On balance,I think she would be well advised to let someone else be the sacrificial candidate in Glasgow East.
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Brittish_Lion
That is the biggest load of self serving rubbish that I have read in a long while.
Scottish Independence has nothing whatsoever to do with Westminster, the Queen or the EU. The only people who will decide on Scottish independence are the people of Scotland.
Despite the best efforts of Blair and Brown we still live in a democracy and the people will decide.
Glad to see that you realize what the aims of the SNP stand for, and to quote Lord Folkes, the SNP are improving the lot of the Scottish people, but they are doing it deliberately.
Scot2010 priceless.
Rev_S_Campbell totally agree about Brian, trying his best to be fair in a difficult situation. You want biased reporting look at Glen Campbell.
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dubbieside #20 - British_Lion apparently believes that when the Scottish people vote in the SNP that qualifies as "all this nonsense". After reading that I don't think we need to bother much with the rest of his comments.
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Is this the reason Councillor George Ryan was pulled at the last minute ?
"He opposed flying the Union flag and God Save The Queen in Glasgow in favour of flying the saltire and use the song Flower of Scotland instead"
Priceless !!
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Margaret Curran would be an interesting choice.I am indebted to Wikipedia for pointing out that in 1980,she had to resign her post after ,allegedley, being involved in an attempt to rig the National Organisation of Labour Students Conference.
Further comment seems superfluous.
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British Lion,
"I hope the Queen and the EU put their collective feet down"
What has an unelected monarch got to do with the political will of the Scottish people?
When Scotland becomes Independant I will gladly hold the door open when you leave.
It is you British nationalists who are holding Scotland back.
Putting Britain first means putting England first as England forms the rump of the UK.
You are a traitor to your own nation.
You will no doubt be happier living in your adoptive motherland wher you can happily kow tow to your monarchy.
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So, despite what most of the media has said, it's actually between the SNP and Lib Dems at the moment! The Lib Dems are only around 1600 votes behind the SNP.
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Dear British Lion
I see that, in the event of independence being declared in Scotland, you will leave us and re-nounce your alleged Scottishness...Bye bye and don't let the door catch your behind on the way out.
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(1) Thank you, Brian, for keeping "guddle" a fine Dundee word alive - number 6. It also means to tickle the underside of a fish and to catch it by hand.
(2) More importantly people of East Glasgow - if you want more of the same keep voting the same; if you want positive change vote for the better future you and our fellow Scots deserve.
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I've criticised Brian for a pro-Labour bias in the past, but having re-read the blog I can't say I detect it in this one.
I think Brian's prose neatly highlights how Labour couldn't run a whelk stall.
Although Brian doesn't hint at it, I think one or two bloggers do, Brian is there a suggestion that the favourite Labour candidate had some skeletons in the cupboard?
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Re #18 from dubbieside:
Good to get a smile from this thread.
"Run a country? run an election campaign? Labour could not run a bath without a set of instructions. Time Wendy was put up for the seat, that would be the final nail."
Priceless.
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#16 British_Lion
The SNP are not anti-english, if it were there wouldn't be so many English SNP members.
The stated policy of the SNP is anyone who wants to live in Scotland is welcome.
As to whether the SNP is lunatic, just look at the lies and subterfuge that has been used in the past. Why did Harold Wilson supress the McCrone report?
Why did Labour tell the lie that voting SNP would costs us each £5000? They knew it was nonsense.
Everyone else knew to when the Heavens didn't fall in last May.
Don't hold it against you that you want to stay British, but ask yourself why?
When you are forced in the next couple of years to carry an ID card.
When you get stopped at immigration on returning from holiday because your details have been lost from the Government database and they think you are a terrorist
and 42 days later you are still in jail and don't know why.
Is this the Britain of your dreams?
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# 16 British_Lion's post is the same lament muttered through the clenched teeth of the defeated down through history.
If this is an example of the best the Labour Party has got supportingthem these days then we can certainly look forward to an independent Scotland sooner rather than later.
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Typical Dundonians! Trying to claim a guid Scots word "guddle" for themselves!
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ukingdom and British Lion
You are clearly SNP activists posing as UK Unionists to make that position even more ludicrous. Shame on you!
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I'm usually the first to accuse the BBC of pro-Labour bias, but not this time.
Labour are trying to use the non-story of Boris Johnson's deputy having to resing, but I'm afraid that is of no relevance up here, considering that the Tories are not exactly strong in Glasgow.
I bet Gordon Brown is wishing that Alex Salmond was Mayor of London, it would have given him the relief he needs.
Should Margaret Curran win, she MUST resign as an MSP otherwise the SNP will crucify her.
This is amateurish politics in place with Labour and their candidate selection. You would expect a major party to always have candidates ready at short notice for such events.
At least they can't blame Wendy for this one.
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"New evidence of vote-rigging in last month's presidential election in Zimbabwe has emerged in the form of a secret film made by a prison guard."
Could we send this guy up to the East Glasgow by-election on June 24th!!!
The dodgy Labour party are so corrupt, I would not put this desperate type of behaviour beyond them!!! :)
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Oops!, July
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Even when I disagree with Brian, his blog is wonderfully well-written and his use of language very satisfying. And as for the matter in hand today - it's simply remarkable. The people in the East End of Glasgow will definitely defect in great numbers to the SNP, what with all the latest goings-ons (and perhaps especially so if Ms Curran enters the ring). That much is sure. But it's not, really, that the people are or will be leaving Labour. It's simply and unavoidably that Scottish Labour has 'left the Scottish people behind', far behind, as they followed disastrous policies led by, amongst others, Gordon Brown. The SNP deserve to win and the people of Glasgow East deserve a committed, dedicated MP: the SNP candidate looks like just such a man.
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Looks suspiciously like yet another dog's breakfast from Labour, with apologies to doggies everywhere. If they can't organize their own candidate selection for a seat which should be ultra-safe for them in a by-election the timing of which was totally under their control, what can they be trusted to organize? Certainly not the revival of Glasgow East or indeed the revival of our country.
Look at it from the point of view of any potential Labour candidate of any substance, if there is such a thing. This by-election could go the other way. So, having patiently served your time in the great Labour family business of cushy numbers and back-scratching meal-ticket provision for staunch life-long members of the once-vast but now-shrinking social-networking club the purpose of which seems now to be little more than to serve the interests of its privileged and cosseted members, you find that, instead of a safe seat offering safe passage and many happy returns to a nice cosy spot at Westminster, you're out on your ear. Alternatively, you scrape a narrow victory and then have to go through the whole nightmare again at the UK general election in 2010 or sooner, if the brothers and sisters don't dump you in favour of someone they think might do better. Either way it doesn't look like a very good deal for an ambitious Labour meal-ticket holder. Better the meal ticket you've got than one that might slip through your fingers. But what about the people of Glasgow East, comrade? Don't you care about them after all?
As Mr Taylor remarks above, "For Pity's sake . . ." Not only has Labour induced our hero to utter these words of unaccustomed apparent exasperation, but they have given him an opportunity to bring out "a fine guddle" again. You should never do that. No, no. It is a mistake. I don't know how many votes it might be worth, but it does not look good at all. "What a way to run a by-election." What a way to run a whelk stall! Oh dearie me. Oh dearie, dearie me. Poor old Glasgow East, to be at the mercy of such a band of incompetents and worse. Still, all you have to do is vote SNP, you know, and this horrendous affliction will disappear as if by magic. Go on. You can do it. Try it and see what happens.
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"Alex Salmond and his band of anti-english lunatics" , funny one that -as a nationalist who lived in the South of England for many years and had many (not bragging tho) english girlfriends, im certainly not anti english. Also we had a local guy that i knew who was from Yorkshire and he was standing for the SNP at the local elections last time. Im sure you will have lots of rants about that statement :o)}
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Brittish_lion, if you think that the SNP are anti English, then prehaps you should try reading the Daily Mail, the Torygraph or the Bun, and you will see anti Scotishness which will make you realise how poor your argument is...
Ukingdom, interesting. Go look up the word democracy in a dictionary, then come back and justify paragraph 3. Thank you.
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What is Margaret Curran on? MSP, aspirant leader of Labour at Holyrood and now potential MP for Glasgow East. If she pulls it off she'll have one hell of a combined salary and expense account!
Or is it a case of thinking that as Labour have a good chance of taking a thrashing in this by-election and no-one else has the courage to stand that it might actually do her leadership campaign the world of good to have stood in the breach and pluckily gone down fighting gatting all that free publicity without having to ellicit campaign donations from somewhat irregular sources?
A cynic could argue that if this comes to pass then the loyal labour voters of Glasgow East as being taken for mugs by yet another disrespectful professional politician putting their own interests ahead of their consituents.
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If Solidarity had the bottle to campaign hard with emphasis on being the only republican party, they would stand a decent chance at the runners-up spot at least and might even manage to entice some of Glasgow East's 50%+ non-voters to turn out... Well, you never know ;)
Labour will only be elected in East Glasgow if people vote by habit without thinking. Knowing the area, I really don't think the working-class majority of East Glasgow support the right-wing, unionist policies of Labour.
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Will the local party even select Curran? Won't they be wondering why they bothered backing her (again) as MSP for Baillieston when she is so desperate for a job at the Westminster Parliament: where she can fight Tories, and face only a handful of dastardly "nats" (at least until 2010).
Question is would she actually be an electoral asset or another reason not to vote Labour in this area?
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So Margaret Curran has actually "put her name forward"! Obviously she will then be confirmed as the candidate.
Seems a very high risk strategy, only justified by Labour being convinced that there is a real risk of actually losing to the SNP - not just having a hugely reduced majority.
Who would have thought that Glasgow East would ever have been considered as seriously vulnerable to the SNP!
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I see Curran has been drafted in a panicked and desperate attempt to try to save Labour's face.
Maybe they have never heard the old saying: "The bigger they are, the harder they fall!"
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Is there a cunning plan afoot? Gambling on Margaret Curran to hold the seat, quick by-election for Holyrood in Bailleston and Dr John Reid returns to lead the Scottish Labour party?
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To No.4. Ukingdom.
All I would say to you is " Spherical things that bounce."!!
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I reside in Th East end of Glasgow and the Labour Party could put in a monkey and it would get elected as the constituents have been taken for granted for years and the last sitting mp was never seen between elections. Come the Commonwealth Games I hope the local MP is up th the challenge.
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Re #38 from Anagol:
Well put. For "an ambitious Labour meal-ticket holder" I think you'd need a plank, a blindfold and a cutlass.
Seems odd to find Margaret Curran apparently volunteering and odder still for NuLabour not to have bitten her hand off accepting - not that I think she'll do well in either of the roles she covets.
Who can they have in mind?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
capyainpicard # 48 - sorry, the famous monkey that has for so many years been touted as an automatic winner in any Labour-held seat has had to decline. He wants to spend more time with his family.
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We've had Ryan, then Purcell, now Curran.
The Labour rosette, with pin open, is still waiting on the Labour monkey to be chosen.
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Brian,
Radio Scotland news at 6 pm has just reported that Stephen Purcell has ruled himself out of this contest, so why, we ask, would Margaret Curran, or even John Reid, consider putting themselves forward??
To lose this by-election (and that could even be by winning but with a hugely embarrassing loss of majority) would be the death-knell for any Labour career politician. And that's what Purcell, Curran and Reid are!!
If this is now being accurately described as 'Labour's lost weekend' when they seem incapable of organising a' xxxx-xx' in a brewery just what is this doing for the already slender life-line that keeps yon Raith supporter in power in Engerland??
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How about Scottish Labour reflects their voter-base rather than simply doing as UK Labour commands? They'd get more votes that way.
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I think many a serving civil servant could tell you that working for the SNP is no better than working for the previous Labour administration, and in some cases worse. Except that they'd be done for breaching the Official Secrets Act (yes, you can bet the Sneeps won't do away with that particular bit of UK legislation!)
They are not a bunch of knights in tartan armour. They are as self-serving as any other politician.
I see no reason to change the voting habits of a lifetime just to vote in a different set of politicians. On'es a bad as the other.
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Apart from the expected and acceptable,if nonetheless tiresome siniping between Labour and the SNP the current disarray in the Labour Party reveals a staggering level of familiarity with the consequences of the devolution settlement which, that party to their credit where in no small measure responsible for. In addition it lays bare the intellectual vacuity of the entire New Labour project; at least in a Scottish context since voters are increasingly unlikely to support "Tammany Hall" politics in hitherto safe Labour fiefdoms without the figleaf of at least some commitment to a crdedible left wing ideology. As this is the political habitat that Alex Salmond has claimed for himself we are sure to be living in interesting times in Scottish politics.
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In reply to greenmile ,if John Reid returns to lead Labour in Scotland we better prepare for an SNP landslide in 2011 !
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Oh dear! Big gordon will not be amused, in fact this debacle might just put him in a corner sucking his thumb and jibbering. Stand by the men in the white coats, another depressed politician might be about to join the ranks of the disability corps.Margaret Curran ? Yes right! Has she got the death wish as well?
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Scot 2010: Private Eye does a Gordon Brown comic strip loosely based on the broons - called the Broonites.
as for accusations of bias against Brian, I find them wholly unfair. When he says for pities sake, it sounds to me he is miffed at the treatment of Mr. Ryan, touting him as a candidate without checking he was interested. And hes right Labour can bounce back, especially in a region where they have a 13,000 majority. I find currans desire bizzare, especially as shes in a strong position as a potential leader, or at the very least have a good job in a shadow cabinet which was virtually non existent under Wendy, who seems to prefer to work alone, much like Brown. A succesful MO then.
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This must be very upsetting for you Brian, but never mind, I am sure there will be plenty of opportunity for you to help the party to win-once they have selected a candidate. Also, could you please stick to the Queen's english. I am a scot but have never before heard some of the words you used.
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iain_stevens
Aye - its a mark of their desparation that Reid is persistently touted at staging a comeback.
They really are an absolute shower up here, as the list of 'front runners' for their leadership will attest. Also the fact that Wendy Alexander is always being portrayed as the brains of the outfit.
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#4 The idea of Britain could go down with Brown. If you really believe the UK (English of all regions, Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish - on both sides of the sectarian divide) constitute "one nation" then you had better start campaigning for Gordon. A bunch of Old Etonians (who will easily equal the incompetence of Brown et al) running the show could have Labour's heartlands not only voting SNP but voting for independence.
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#55 "
"I think" is right as what you have just promulgated is hearsay pure and simple.
Change the voting habits of a lifetime - you already have since the party you vote for went farther, and is farther, right than Margaret Thatcher. She never sought ID cards to combat the IRA, or extending detention without charge to 42 days.
At least the SNP is implementing various aspects of socialist policy - which incidentally Tommy Sheridan has largely endorsed.
Your message is a council of despair and tantamount to gifting dictatorship, you should be ashamed.
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Re #61 from greenlimesmoothie:
How true, especially your snippet that "Wendy Alexander is always being portrayed as the brains of the outfit."
Now thats really worrying!
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Re #63 from impeachblair:
Succinct and to the point. Well said.
OTOH this blog wouldn't be half the fun without gossip, hearsay and rumour.
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Wow.
The renowned "Magrat" Curran steps into the breach.
Heh... wonder if Wendy Alexander will come and do a spot of campaigning for her?
Scottish Labour just gets funnier and funnier.
Splendid.
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40 and 47
Both somewhat tetchy I feel
The point is that we are ONE nation
The Scottish so called Parliament was created by Brown and Co
This was all supposedly in memory of John Smith and a promise made to him
John who? - a Socialist Politician or an actor from the TV series "Laramie"
At the time this Government thought they would always be the power of Scotland and this was a sop to make sure they always would be - or so their simple minds told them
As one relatively small nation we do not need these assemblies and the costs certainly do not justify these little people spouting their nonsense - it all detracts from the real world
In 1997 the massive majority given to Labour brought in people who would not normally be expected to win a seat, and all that was needed of them was to vote with the Government. Very little chance of advancement and many were and are incapable of that
Not the "C" list - more like the "Z"
Of course from then until the next election they are all accruing ther pensions- we the taxpayer have to pay for that and on top of all the amazing expenses many have claimed
Is this the demcracy that 40 and 47 crave for
We also now have another layer of Scottish and Welsh Assembly members - more wages - more expenses all for a talking shop
The SNP leadership see all as an oppotunity to dismantle the UK
Another fine mess from Brown and Co
Great Britain is one nation and we must see that it remains as such
Face this with relief and great happiness Nos 40 and 47
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Is it not incredible in the history of Scottish politics of the last 80 years that the once mighty Labour Party is now staring at the abyss.
The dirty tricks and the poisonous press coveage had started even before the NuLab Party had selected its candidate - indeed even before the sitting MP had officially resigned.
If you had asked me last weekend could the SNP take Glasgow East - I would have said no chance and I would have asked you for some of what you had been smoking.
Being sane still despite all that has happenned in the history of this country - The SNP have no chance of winning this seat. But then as James Macfadyean showed - strarge things sometimes happen.
Perhaps Glasgow East will be Labours last stand before it steps off the cliff into the abyss - I will carry on living more in hope than expectation.
Even though Labour now taxes the poor to give to the rich. Even though there battalions sleepwalk into the commons lobbys to vote for extra perks for themselves I still dont expect the SNP to win in Galsgow East. Somethings are just beyond miracles - not even our saviour could pull that one off?
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To be totally honest, I'm not too sure what this is all about. I want Labour and Brown to continue in Government until May 2010 so that we are all suitably softened up for the following 3-4 years of 'remedial action' to sort out the mess that Labour has left us in.
Why this particular Scottish MP resigned and the manner of it, seems all rather odd but then, it is Scottish politics clearly and, for Scottish people to dispose of as they see fit.
However I do have a really big gripe with the BBC that to me seems far more important: That poisonous little twerp Blears says following the Deputy Mayor "resignation" thing in London. "Tories in Disarray !" and that is a BBC headline which would be fair enough on a slow news day but...
Here we have a Labour safe seat with a 13,500 majority at the last election ( a hamster with a Labour rosette could win it), and the preferred Labour candidate declines and regardless of the reasons, where are the equivalent BBC headlines saying; "Labour in meltdown in Glasgow by-election".
Whoever we vote for we all pay our TV Licence fees and what we don't pay for is some snotty little BBC employee working out his or her 'political issues', fair is fair and the BBC is now corrupt.
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Why has Mr Ryan withdrawn from the fray? Did he fear that he would lose the by-election or did he fear the scrutiny that would properly have attended his candidacy? If there is something in his cupboard which he would rather that the people not discover, the voters have been spared an unsuitable candidate, and it is not to the credit of his party that it failed to find him out at a much earlier stage. If he feared that he would lose the election, his party should condemn him for his cowardice and for harming its prospects.
So we are left with a fleeting image of a man who failed to attend a meeting and left his colleagues in the lurch at the last minute . . . for the sake of his family, we are given to understand. "It’s common for Men to give 6 pretended Reasons instead of one real one." (Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, 1745)
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Re #67 from Ukingdom:
What medication are you on? I do hope you're getting it free in Scotland, but suspect you should ask your GP to increase the dose.
You still make a couple of valid points between the rants.
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Re #68 from Brochgales:
Probably best to wait awhile then before having a flutter. I'd be surprised if you couldn't get decent odds against labour winning by polling day.
Like Ukingdom's #67 you make some valid points. Are you sure it's not you doing the illicit smoking?
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#70 - a book has recently been published up here called 'Halls of Infamy' with tales of much wrong doing and general snout in the trough-ery at Glasgow City Council.
One of the Sundays up here might be featuring it heavily, I'm guessing Mr Ryan got wind of this.
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After the supernova of Blair, we have the black hole of Brown, containing a singularity of infinite incompetence and an event horizon from which no good news emerges. If Brown loses this, and somehow hangs on, there'll probably be a exodus of Labour MPs to the Lib Dems and Conservatives.
As for the moaning about the BBC's bias, the nationalists on this thread should get a grip. You're like right-wing Americans complaining about the 'liberal media'. It's an artefact of your belief system more than anything else.
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Re #69 from popskihaynes:
"To be totally honest, I'm not too sure what this is all about."
Might I respectfully suggest that you read this thread before commenting on it?
"I do have a really big gripe with the BBC that to me seems far more important: That poisonous little twerp Blears says following the Deputy Mayor "resignation" thing in London. "Tories in Disarray !" and that is a BBC headline which would be fair enough on a slow news day but..."
Many here would agree with the first part of your premise but would have no sympathy with the Tories whatsover. Agreed that it is not a shining example of the art of headline writing, though.
"Here we have a Labour safe seat with a 13,500 majority at the last election ( a hamster with a Labour rosette could win it), and the preferred Labour candidate declines and regardless of the reasons, where are the equivalent BBC headlines saying; "Labour in meltdown in Glasgow by-election"."
Had you read the thread, you'd have found few agreeing with you that this contest is not as you surmised.
You never know, you might actually find it interesting.
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ukingdom #67
"Great Britain is one nation and we must see that it remains as such"
So you don't want Northern Ireland then.
(Blast, I forgot that you are but a figment of a Nationalist's imagination).
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No 76
It is quite easy really, one nation means just that - ONE NATION
We can only hope that No 76 will catch up with this debate (eventually)
The vasy majority of the United Kingdom citizens are proud of being a member, and to throw in such inappropriate titles serves no useful purpose
Hidden away in your "wee" Crofters Cottage you are possibly as out of touch as Brown in his Downing Street bunker
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#77 Ukingdom
Now you're being really silly. The art of spoof is to make your character believable.
Any real UK Unionist posting as "Ukingdom" would know that the country s/he was part of was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Try again, but this time get the details of your pretend character right.
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Re #74 from Anaxim:
"If Brown loses this, and somehow hangs on, there'll probably be a exodus of Labour MPs to the Lib Dems and Conservatives."
With the exception of a very few (mainly English) serial rebels do you really think the LibDems would have them? I can just about imagine the Tories taking one or two of the ultra Blairites but couldn't put a name to one.
Any thoughts on who?
Most of the BBC moans here aren't so much about bias as Londonitis, there are some perfectly reasonable posts here suspecting auntie of quietly supporting NuLabour in the fear of there no longer being a BBC but perhaps an EWNIBC after the SNP hold their referendum. My own suspicion is muddle rather than plot, but that's beside the point.
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Re #76 from oldnat:
"So you don't want Northern Ireland then."
Now who's being provocative?
Still, I've heard it opined that eventually the UK may just consist of Northern Ireland.
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Ukingdom:
"It is quite easy really, one nation means just that - ONE NATION"
Do you speak for everyone within the United Kingdom?
"The vasy majority of the United Kingdom citizens are proud of being a member, and to throw in such inappropriate titles serves no useful purpose"
Again, do you speak for everyone within the United Kingdom? There is no evidence that possibly shows a majority supporting the Union, polls can go wrong, similar to the Irish Lisbon Treaty Referendum. The 'No Vote' eventually won despite the 'Yes Vote' appearing more popular for weeks before the actual vote.
You should learn to respect other opinions and do not insult their views by such claims that can not be backed.
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Re #77 from Ukingdom:
"It is quite easy really, one nation means just that - ONE NATION"
Right now that's true and as a federalist I hope it stays that way, but you'll not win many friends by banging on that way.
Are you suggesting that the Act of Union is irrevocable? If you are, then there's many of us in all four countries of the UK who'll disagree.
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The SNP have a huge task in east Glasgow but I detect a mood on the streets that shows Labour have fooled the people just one too many times. The guddle they are in is of their own making and I now feel ashamed of the Labour Party They continue the Tory waste of Scotland's resources to fund lunatic wars and crazy WMD's like Trident. I will definitely vote SNP.
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Old Nat
This is supposed to be a serious debate because the underlying issue is the future of our nation
That being said your contribution to this debate has amounted to nothing
WE can all play with words and if you would care to tell us your address I will endeavour to call and brighten your day - no easy task I am sure
As you are the Nationalist you surely must know in your heart that the true course for us all is ONE NATION
Stop playing the game of Brown and Co and their sop to the people of Scotland (and Wales)
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What I feel neither here have suggested, was that the Lib Dems and Tories, plus the other parties will also be attacking Labour and trying to hit as hard as possible.
Labour are headless at at the moment with a darn poorer record then the Scottish National Party. Labour are also easier to attack rather then the Scottish National Party, seeing how the Scottish National Party are incredibly popular.
Afterall, Labour are the main Party in this area and the other Parties will attempt to take a slice of the pie of voters who have already decided to vote against Labour.
The Scottish National Party should be able to take this seat.
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Like the Tories before them, Labour has pressed the political self-destruct button in Scotland.
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#59 Ross_Morton
Yes.now you come to mention it, I do remember the eye cartoon. However I was refering more to Labour in Scotland's current travails and tried to match fictional to real characters
On BBC bias. I do not see any in Brian's current or previous blogs. However, anybody watching last Thursdays Question Time can clearly see the dismissal of Scottish politics and the SNP as endemic to the BBC London clique. In general I fing BBC Scotland as fair, in vastly under resourced
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Ukingdom:
84#
"This is supposed to be a serious debate because the underlying issue is the future of our nation."
This debate is actually suppose to be about Labour, the problems Labour has and the by-election. (Read what Brian wrote)
This not a debate to discuss the future of the Union or Independence. I understand we are very passionate about the Union and Scottish Independence, but I wish we all would keep it to ourselves and comment of the topic rather then talk about the Union/Independence.
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UKingdom:
One nation? So why a different legal, educational and now political system in Scotland. The union in 1707 was, at best, a marriage of convenience BETWEEN nations. Even if it was necessary once, which I could dispute, it has long passed its sell by date. For the sake of Scotland and England we need to dissolve this political marriage and try and be good friends afterwards. I don't want to go over the reasons again why this is necessary, partly because it is not my job to educate you but mainly because my dinner is getting cold,
Cheerie
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#84 Ukingdom
Good heavens you may be for real!!
If so, then I'm quite glad that your implied threat of physical violence "if you would care to tell us your address I will endeavour to call and brighten your day" got past the moderators. It demonstrates the depths of depravity that the extreme end of the UK Unionist spectrum will descend to.
Indeed, you represent the kind of Nationalist thug that my father fought 1939-45, so that we could have civilized political debate.
I think you need help.
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I have never heard of this Brian Taylor, maybe because I live in southern England. I read his blog and thought he was a comedian, its quite amusing his comment " Labour can, of course, recover from this."
Is he employed by the BBC or Nu Labour? No doubt I will see him shortly on a talent show.
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Re BBC Bias
I conplained in exacting terms about the BBC 10 news report in late May on the UK windfall from oil prices of ,,,,, wait for it 1.25Billion - only out by a factor of 5.
I could hardly believe it, but following the complaint I have been given the run around ever since.
I think what may have happened is they took a spoiling government brief (spoiling as it was trying to disarm the fuel protest) and delivered it, untested, as verbatim.
That is almost understandable, but to attempt to ignore the complaint is unforgivable.
So yes reluctantly I now have to agree the London based BBC is biased. The Scotland based BBC is so demoralised it cannot fight back.
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Re #88 from Thomas_Porter:
I grant that Ukingdom's #84 is starting to drift off topic but there's no denying that independence will be an issue in the by-election.
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I am presuming my #90 was referred to the moderators because it quoted from Ukingdom's #84, which had already been referred.
I find it really sad when any nationalist - British, Scottish or any other loses balance in a political debate.
I almost feel sorry for winding him/her up.
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Re #79 from Browedov
I'd expect the Lib Dems and Conservatives would take any Labour MP decent enough to defect, to facilitate the collapse of Labour. The Conservatives would be willing to cast their net wider than a handful of ultra-blairites given their new nice image.
As for names, Frank Fields is a probable one for the Lib Dems, though he could quite frankly find his way into the Conservatives. Two centre-left parties, versus Labour...
If I were the BBC, I'd not worry too much about an unlikely successful independence referendum. Irish TV mostly consists of UK imports, it'll be the same for Scotland. Notwithstanding unfathomable nationalist objections to Eastenders or whatever.
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#74 Anaxim...
Brilliant post - spot on.
Although I did think that David Dimbleby wasa bit out of order bringing up the Gaza misquote attributed to Angus Robertson. HIs actual point was that the average male life expectancy in parts of the constituency are similar to that in Gaza. A point very worthwhile making.
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Whoever wins it'll be another MP voting on English matters at Westminster. Those very same matters over which English MPs have no say in the Scottish Parliament. No doubt voting against us having free tuition for our students, free long-term care for our elderly, a pilot scheme for free school meals and, soon to come, no prescription charges. Not to forget- drugs not available in England. All paid for from a much larger slice of money (per head of population) from the UK budget. Where's the justice?
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Ukingdom you are so out of your tree it is embarrassing.
Scotland and England have been diverging politically and culturally for decades:
England wants to halt immigration to a trickle, even would like to send many back.
Scotland needs and want immigrants.
England feels so threatened by terrorists that the majority would cheerfully throw away hundred of years of painstackingly won liberty (what WWII was worth fighting for)
Scotland does not feel so threatened and does not want to yield up the freedoms.
England desperately needs energy security that almost certainly requires nuclear gneration.
Scotland can, if the resources go in, look at a future powered by hydro, pumpstorage, wind and hydrogen combines, offshore wind, tidal and wave, clean coal, carbon capture and domestic micro generation.
England, apparently, still wants the ability to incinerate everything on a continent with new submarine launched nuclear missiles.
Scotland doesn't.
England, ie the Home Office, is still, in a truely abberant way hounding refugees at dawn who, for the most part would be first class citizens.
Over and over again Scots have been up in arms at this behaviour.
need I go on............
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yaknow re#97
If Mason (SNP) wins, then the new Glasgow East MP won't be voting on English issues - the SNP don't on principle. You should only fear a Labour victory
The democratic deficit that Scotland used to suffer has now been transferred to England, it's not justice, and most Scots agree with you on that.
The Scots used to be (rightly) condemned for "whining" about what the English did to them. As I read many English comments, I see the same unfortunate tendency to blame "them" (whover "they" may be).
The answer is in your own hands. If you want England to handle it's own affairs - then vote for it, and encourage others to do so.
More strength to you.
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#97 Yaknow
I have sympathy with your point up to a point, UK parliament MPs:
England 529 MPs:
279 Labour
188 Conservative/conservative like
48 LD
Scotland 59MPs:
41 Labour
11 LD
6 SNP
1 Conservative
Wales 40MPs:
30 Labour
4 LD
3 Plaid C
3 Conservative
NI 18MPs:
18 various other parties
You do the arithmetic:
1. The Parliament is overwhelmingly English
2. The ruling party is overwhelmingly English
If the executive has a preponderance of Scots then it is English Labour MP's who put them there
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Margaret Curran can do no worse than the last MP who we never saw anything of anyway and might as well not have been there.Glasgow East should be a Labour safe seat and if it is lost to the SNP then I am not afraid to say it but Gordon Bwn should go th the country and let the people decide which party should be elected top govern the country.
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I think Labour are playing a dangerous game using Curran as the candidate. If she wins, she will be expected to resign her Holyrood seat, and there is a good chance that in a by-election the SNP might snatch it.
But if Labour lose this, many people say it will be the end of Gordon Brown. But who would replace him? And to be honest I don't think it matters who is PM come the next General Election, Labour are almost certainly going to be thumped. There is no point in going on about the last Tory Government, Labour will have been in for about 12 years, and there will be a group of 18-30 year olds who will be new voters.
Margaret Curran would have been better not to stand. And I think that even Labour understand that John Reid is a liability - he might be a strong character, but he hasn't really achieved much.
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The East end of Glasgow is a slum and if the new Member of Parliament for the area can do something about clearing the slums then they will get my vote at the next general election
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Re 92
Aye! those who live off the scraps from thier masters table - well they dont have the stomach for rebellion.
In this case BBC SCotland so called is living off the scraps that London sees fit to throw away.
We would all be demoralised on a poor diet? Till hunger drove us to desperate measures?
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Re #97 from yaknow:
"Whoever wins it'll be another MP voting on English matters at Westminster. . . . Where's the justice?"
There isn't any, but that's a matter for English voters to take up with NuLabour at the next general election. This one's Glasgow's go at savaging them.
I quite look forward to watching the bloodbath, but it's the daftness of those voters (well, nearly a quarter of them) choosing Bliar and his asymetric devolution three times running that's put them in the fine mess they're in.
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yaknow
As to your 2nd point about the distribution of resources within the UK, you were probably not given information about the new "GERS" data (produced by civil servants not politicians), which indicated that previous data had under-represented income from Scotland, and over-estimated expenditure here.
I always thought it stupid for UK Unionist politicians to misrepresent Scotland's balance sheet in order to undermine Scottish Nationalism. It was always likely to fuel an English backlash.
I presume that your assumptions are based on the information that you have gleaned from the English media. If you have the time, you may want to do an Internet search on the most recent data.
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Poor Belmons at 6#- as a laddie in Scotland I used the word "guddle" all the time when catching fish in a burn.
It really means to "tickle" fish-usually trout" and if carefully done a moment of fish hypnosis allows you to flick the trout on the bank.
Most basic English words are centuries old and guddle is Scots derived from the Angle Scots in southern Scotland.
Yes you English will have to broaden your use of the British tongue.
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Dear British lion,
Please do not let the door bruise your delicate bottie on the way out.
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yaknow
Another thought (having just seen an item on the Church of England on the news) - how (or do you?) justify bishops from the Church of England having any votes at all on issues affecting non-CoE people in England, or almost anyone in Scotland, wales or Northern Ireland?
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Guddle may be a nineteeth century word, but guddles on this scale probably occur only about one a century. Good for Brian to find the right word for it.
The bet that looks wildly generous right now is 100 to 1 against the LibDems. They were not far behind the SNP, and Labour voters who don't like the SNP have somewhere to go.
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The last post on Nick Robinson's site (other than one of "us") was 7.41pm.
At 10.40pm there is a queue of unmoderated posts on Brian Taylor's.
This suggests that the stereotype of the argumentative Scot may have some substance - no bad thing for Scottish democracy!
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Yaknow #87
Actually im fairly certain the snp only vote on issues to do with scotland or uk wide ones that also apply to scotland. so not quite "whoever wins" :P
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Re #111 from oldnat
Mea culpa for my #153 on that forum, but it has kept this one going in a fairly lively way.
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Re #113 from General_Disquiet:
"Eleven Labour Glasgow City Councillors, including Councillor George Ryan, who last night suddenly pulled out of the contest to represent Labour in the crucial Glasgow East by-election, were reported to the Standards (Commission) on 18 June 2008 in connection with a controversial land deal in the city centre.
......
At least the issue is a local one, and they did want to discuss local issues in this election. Did they not?"
WOW! So the NuLabour by-election planning committee seem to have maintained their usual prowess in setting the dates of their own by-elections to maximise the chance of success.
I bet The Supreme Leader is pleased.
OTOH, I suppose if they know something about the case they may want to act quickly while there's only a mild whiff of stinking fish rather than wait until later in the summer when all Glasgow will reek of it.
But if that were the case it's they would have had time to "pre-select" a "clean" candidate. I wonder how short Monday's shortlist will be.
In any event the odds against a Labour win must be spiralling. Interesting times indeed.
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Re #113 from General_Disquiet
What's even more astonishing is that the BBC website hasn't picked up on this an hour after this post and there's no clearly documented way of telling them quickly.
If a moderator actually reads this can you please tell your newsies to look at #113 on this forum and report it or deny it ASAP.
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Brownedov, I think you might be interested in the link to the report which I quoted. It is http://www.allmediascotland.com/media_releases/2952/eleven_glasgow_labour_councillors_under_investigation.
Whether the BBC will check this out quickly or not, I've passed the information and link to Scotland on Sunday and other possibly interested parties.
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A self-dug hole? A hole that dug itself??
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I see #113 has been referred to the moderators
Wonder why?
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Re #120 from oldnat:
Most odd.
The story is there on allmediascotland.com alright and is being reported elsewhere. Google "Glasgow East Standards Commission" to see the hits for yourself.
It's getting late but lets hope we'll see/hear more in the morning.
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Oldnat, see the following link: http://www.allmediascotland.com/media_releases/2952/eleven_glasgow_labour_councillors_under_investigation
if the BBC will permit it.
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What I can't understand is why the moderators pulled #113 after Brownedov responded to it and then asked for it to be pulled.
Not only that I was too late getting to it and didn't get a chance to read it
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Thanks guys
Goodnight
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Just joined the debate again and can't believe Dr John Reid is being touted. Thank you Lord. Please stand in this By-election and remove yourself from my beloved football club. Then I can get back to watching football and not shivering knowing that there is a war monger/criminal sitting in the good seats.
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I see that not only is an apparently huge story breaking concerning what appears to be George Ryan's real reason for withdrawing from the Labour candidate-selection procedure for the Glasgow East by-election but also Ms Curran is proposing to serve Labour as MP for Glasgow East on a part-time basis only until the next Holyrood elections so that a by-election would not have to be held in her Holyrood Baillieston constituency, which Labour is apparently afraid of losing to the SNP.
Mr Ryan, together with Stephen Purcell and nine other Glasgow Labour councillors, is understood to have been reported to the Standards Commission of Scotland on June 18th in connection with a controversial land deal in the city centre. No wonder his family was afraid that he might be put under a great deal of pressure if he accepted the nomination as Labour candidate in Glasgow East. The way in which events have unfolded concerning his withdrawal from the fray now begins to make sense.
Because they have made a mess of their candidate selection in such a monumentally incompetent and highly questionable manner, Labour now expect the electorate of Glasgow East to put up with a part-time Labour MP who will continue to serve in the Scottish Parliament as an MSP, although the Labour group there has excoriated the First Minister for serving in two parliaments simultaneously. It is, I feel, not unreasonable to submit that the incompetence, hypocrisy and highly questionable conduct of the Labour Party in Scotland no longer deserve to be tolerated by any self-respecting voter in any constituency in any election at any level.
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philandkirsty #125
But Brian Wilson might still be there!
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good point oldnat...and very well put.
New Labour mandarins/War criminals/mongerers please note you are no longer welcome. FULL STOP.
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Actually Brian, you and the rest of the media are the one's who have been telling us that councillor George Ryan would be the labour candidate for Glasgow East.
The winner of this election will not be Labour, and the result will not change the destiny of Gordon Brown or the Labour Party who are reaping what they sowed.
The big tragedy is that whoever wins, the people will be the losers, and none of the leading News Broadcasters or political journalists are doing anything to help the people see that.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
WeerossYPT is spot on. The SNP and Boab and his cronies do not like the truth.
Keep hammering away at it wee man and the truth will out. Get all yer mates onto it.
Let the battle commence! We'll see them at the hustings.
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Maybe Margeret Curren and the rest of New Labour (Mis)management is hoping that she will be successful in all three posts; MSP, Leader of the Scottish Labour Party and new MP for Glasgow East.
Her and their objective is quite simple - to gain enought (public) money to help pay off Labours massive overdraft.
Me thinks she intends to be in for the long haul - maybe someone should tell her .... Wendy, perhaps??
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Brian, the extraordinary thing about this is that you'd have thought that Labour - knowing the impact of a loss or, heaven forefend, a lost deposit even - would have done the detailed work of selection so closely that the withdrawal of Mr Ryan would never have come to light. The incompetence, it seems, goes on...
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Brian
My memory is going. Is this Margaret Curran the same one who was the agent for a New Labour candidate, a Mr. Sarwar, who generously handed over £5,000 to one of the other candidates who was a bit down on his luck?
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Re #123 from Jake-the-saltire:
"What I can't understand is why the moderators pulled #113 after Brownedov responded to it and then asked for it to be pulled.
Not only that I was too late getting to it and didn't get a chance to read it"
I did not ask for it to be pulled. Rather my #117 was intended to try to get the story reported on the main website if true.
If the complaint was submitted in June as stated on the allmediascotland.com then surely it's news, irrespective of the outcome but although the Standards Commission have a good website at standardscommissionscotland.org.uk they don't seem to list pending complaints until a hearing date has been fixed.
So I suppose the hacks need to verify elsewhere. Perhaps soon they'll be able to contact an official in the know, or maybe they can contact some of the names on the site. A chat with "Paddy's Market representative, Brian Daly" sounds like a good idea if they can find him or at least get hold of Ms Caroline Weintz who's quoted as the allmediascotland.com contact.
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Re #126 from Major_Stishie:
"It is, I feel, not unreasonable to submit that the incompetence, hypocrisy and highly questionable conduct of the Labour Party in Scotland no longer deserve to be tolerated by any self-respecting voter in any constituency in any election at any level."
Well put, but I fear that a few voters still have not understood that the whole shabby NuLabour project has nothing to do with the original Labour movement. It will be instructive to see how many of them are left come polling day.
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Dear Mr Wilson,
The cringe factor of the Scottish parliament just gets more unbelievable each day . If the Labour Party are going to be in a serious role as opposition they need some serious politicians not the bunch of nit picking town councillors who regularly bring down the whole tone of the parliament.
To all MSP's . Get real! Get on with the Goverment of Scotland as a nation . Up till now the debates are no better than at acommunity council. Stop wasting time minutely examining each others expenses and come up with some real solutions for Scotland going forward.There are thousands of exiled scots like myself who would like to come home if there is a real opportunity to make a difference and take Scotland forward ,irrespective of politics .The talent is out there waiting for some kind of leadership from our Scottish politicians . It looks like we will have to wait a very long time!!
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Sunday morning and the Labour party are complaining of SNP bias in the BBC!
Scuse me while I choke on my cornflakes!
As for the stories about the ex MP for Glasgow East ,not only are they in blogsites but the papers have them too.
Also 11 lGlasgow councillors are under investigation by the standards comm. over paddys market and there is something going on in Falkirk too!
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#136 Brownedov - read the story you're talking about and found it very interesting.
That reminds me, I must get round to buying that boxed set of The Sopranos!
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Margaret Curran winning and therefore being in two parliaments might actually be bad for the SNP.
If any of them criticised her for her actions, the immediate response would be "well what about the First Minister then?".
Maybe someone at Labour HQ has actually thought things out for once.
On the other hand, Alex Salmond would do well to immediately resign from Westminster which would then put Labour into another hole.
BUt what is really interesting now is the allegation that there are issues over a land deal. If this turns out to be true then Labour are going to have far more serious problems in the future.
And one final point: one poster referred to "Scottish MPs voting on English-only issues". While I agree that is wrong, don't forget Labour gained power because of English voters, not Scottish or Welsh.
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Re #139 from DisgustedDorothy:
Well said.
Hope the cornflakes are now safely digested.
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Does someone at the BBC know some details they're not sharing with us?
Could there have been a dawn meeting of the NuLab politburo that actually made a decision?
The news website is now showing "Margaret Curran, Labour" on the "In full: Glasgow East candidates" page as having been last updated at 05:52 GMT, Sunday, 6 July 2008 06:52 UK.
See for yourselves at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7490596.stm
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For all you fans of the word "guddle":
Brian has a three-step rule for its use.
1. On discovery of any alleged illegality by a prominent Labour politician - no matter how blatant - the matter is classified as a "guddle".
2. On flat denial of illegality by the politician it is reclassified as a "muddle" or - in everyday English - "unintentional wrong-doing".
3. After usually several months of furious public outcry the matter is reluctantly re-classified as a "fiddle".
The practical application of the three-step rule has been evident in some recent high-profile cases.
Naturally no one is ever actually prosecuted for anything and we never find out what happened to the missing money.
Standing down from whatever meaningless party post the politician occupied is usually deemed punishment enough.
On no account do they ever resign as an MP or MSP which, when you think about it, is only to be expected given the enormous, unaudited financial goodies on offer.
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Since obviously we would have to wait for hell to freeze over before the BBC in Scotland would report it, you can find the full story here:
www.fan-hitter.co.uk/news/story.php?newsID=31
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Re #144 from bighullabaloo:
Thanks for the clarification.
Guddle deserves better in the lexicon than to be associated with NuLabour.
Let's hope its soon but a distant memory.
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I'm amazed at some of the commentary from Unionists.
The SNP are anti-english - meaning the hate England and English policies?
How narrowminded are Unionists these days?
The SNP has stood for 100 years to represent Scotland in her entireity, from the days that no-one would listen until thier victory at the Scottish elections last year. Not ONCE were there thoughts to arm and rebel, like our Irish cousins - NOT ONCE have they sought to alienate the English, Irish or the Welsh through bigoted or religious means.
You should all be ashamed of yourselves, downcrying a party that has worked every bit as hard as Lib Lab and Con - abiding only by the law of the land and arguing on Scotlands merits alone. Ashamed indeed.
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#147 Right again. See my posts at 38, 98, and 100
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The SNP is NOT repeait NOT anti English
Im in the SNP and:
1. My father is English
2. My best buddy is English
3. I have lived in 3 english cities and worked as a teacher in england
but I was born and bred in Scotland and I support the SNP because Scotland is better off deciding the future of Scotland and if we are a "nation", we should act like one and actually BE a NATION and not a bit part of the UK.
So take your "SNP is anti english" slurs somewhere else pal.
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Re my #143
Margaret Curran, Labour is now missing again from the "In full: Glasgow East candidates" page although the page still has the same timestamp of 05:52 GMT, Sunday, 6 July 2008 06:52 UK.
See for yourselves at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7490596.stm
If wonder if it's NuLabour or the BBC that's dithering.
Or could the NuLabour thought police have planted a trojan in my browser?
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sorry 30 not 38
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#143
The news website is now showing "Margaret Curran, Labour" on the "In full: Glasgow East candidates" page as having been last updated at 05:52 GMT, Sunday, 6 July 2008 06:52 UK.
Oh no it isn't!
The list of declared candidates includes FRANCES Curran for the SSP.
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Disgusted Dorothy...can you enlighten as to what is happening in Falkirk?
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Hi there. Guess who? I've been ordered to come back down to Earth from the planet Pimple to return those copies of the Beano and the Daily Record that I picked up during my first visit to Glasgow East and to demand a refund. Apparently, the minute analysis which the central directorate has been subjecting these documents to reveals that they are not worth the paper they are printed on.
Anyway, while I'm here, I thought I would chance my arm, as you Earthlings say, and have another go at making sense of this by-election thing, as it is exciting some interest throughout the galaxy even though few are the Earthlings south of something called Hadrian's Wall who apparently, according to intercepts which the central directorate has passed to me, would give something referred to in those parts as a rat's **se to hear about it, whatever that may mean. Clearly, there is great cope for further investigation here.
And so . . . back I went to the front door of the Labour control centre in Glasgow, the locus of my first beaming down to the planet Earth, which you really must try to find a more alluring name for, as it has been putting off visitors for aeons. Exercising some caution on this occasion after my less than productive initial attempt at communication with the beings within, I listened in with my enhanced eavesdropping equipment. I know eavesdroppers never heard any good of themselves - we have that expression too - but you know how you can't resist it. Well, a great deal of what I heard was incomprehensible to me, of course . . . but there seemed to be something to do with something called Paddy's Market and something referred to as the Standards Commission, and there was that word again: "We've really ****ed it up this time."
So, anyway, having incorporated this latest Earthy expression into my universal translation equipment for future analysis by our central directorate for linguistic oddities, I listened in further. So what does "It wisnae me" mean? This one cropped up quite a lot together with a fair bit of wailing and gnashing of teeth. Something is definitely going on in there, but I'm damned if I can fathom it. I gather, at least, that there is still no Labour candidate in this by-election thing. Is this customary? How long do they take to choose one? Does it matter who is chosen? Can they choose their candidate after they have won the election? Why do you put up with this? It seems alien to me, if you'll pardon me for saying so. But then I'm just a Pimpleton. What would I know?
Having now been told where to go by the purveyor of the local publications which I have been seeking a refund for, I am now off to see where that will lead me, as it does not appear to figure in my charts. Toodloothenoo.
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Re #152 from cousteau669:
"Oh no it isn't!"
Oh yes it did.
See my #150
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Brownedov, #150
Your post hadn't cleared pre-moderation when I posted #152
The unchanged datestamp made me think you had made an error, whwen it would now appear to be wilful misreporting by one or more BBC employees to cover up incompetence.
Does anyone know how to lodge a formal complaint regarding this?
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I alluded earlier to the 'moral' dimension pertinent to this by-election in the East End of Glasgow; I fear many are either unaware or choose to avoid a real 'local' factor which may clearly play a part in the outcome, if indeed it has not already played the first card which affected the much touted Labour candidate who has chosen for "family concerns" not to stand.
Could the remarks of the Rt Rev Joseph Devine made in the run up to the May 2007 Election have some bearing on this issue?
"...Bishop warns Labour; Don't count on the Catholic vote..."
"..."For generations, including myself, Catholics in their droves tended to vote consistently for the Labour Party. But over the past few months it has been very noticeable, in conversations I've had with all manner of people, that that allegiance has been severely tested to the point, I think, of being broken." - Rt Rev Joseph Devine..."
Scotsman 12th March 2007
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#156 Cousteau669
Complaimts to the BBC are a waste of time, it takes ages, they do not respond to points made, and issue anodyne answers that basically say "we was right"
Clearly wrong in this case though, nowhere to hide
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I wish Brian Taylor would stop using the word guddle - it, like New Labour, is just past its use-by date.
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Re #156 from cousteau669:
"The unchanged datestamp made me think you had made an error, whwen it would now appear to be wilful misreporting by one or more BBC employees to cover up incompetence."
Thanks for believing me. My original post #143 really was just a "copy and paste" from the URL quoted immediately before I pressed the "Post Comment" button.
You're probably right that the "guddle" was at the BBC end. There is a complaints mechanism if you follow the "Contact us" link at the bottom of the page, but the one time I tried it over something that really irked me I got a Complaint Number but no follow up.
Good luck if you try.
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philandkirsty, someyhing to do with Bo'ness harbour.
See the blogs in the Sunday herald!
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#156 cousteau669 -
To make a formal complaint you go here and fill out the web form:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/make_complaint_step1n.shtml
Don't forget to click the button "Yes, I want to receive a reply".
In my long experience of making probably more than 100 formal complaints whenever the BBC has made a mistake they just arrogantly ignore it.
I have never received an admission of error or anything remotely resembling an apology.
If they think there is a half chance they are right (or rather, that you are wrong) they sometimes write back.
I have now stopped sending complaints because I've noticed that recently they don't seem to bother writing back at all.
For the complaint you're contemplating even though thousands of people probably saw the error and even if you had screenshots with the time showing the error, you'd be hard pushed to get them to admit it, and there isn't a hope in hell that anyone would be reprimanded for in any way.
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Yes Brian, I too cannot understand this mess. More years ago than I care to remember I was a by-election candidate. I had to fill out detailed forms, then go through a half hour interview with two senior party colleagues before getting on the by-election short list. This included asking questions about family support, personal financial circumstances, and a declaration about nothing in my background that could embarrass self or party. I know other colleagues were also asked about my background credentials etc...and all just to get on a short list....
It is extremely odd that for such a critical by-election, Labour demonstrate such remarkable incompetence.
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Re #162 from bighullabaloo:
Good summary, and worth noting for the future.
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Re #163 from Clamjamfrie:
I was only joking in my #11, but I'm beginning to wonder whether that really might be the strategy after all.
Not fielding a candidate couldn't make things worse for NuLabour, could it?
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Well done Margaret - what a servant. As Brown would never say, but Geoff Hoon might, "I trust that it will be appropriately rewarded! "
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Brian I am an English guy who lives in Scotland. In my world the SNP look likely to win the referendum but perhaps not by the required margin.
But nobody in government, or the media, seems to be taking the fact that they COULD win seriously.
There is no obvious preparation for the phase of disentangling the Scottish and UK in terms of strategy, policy and practical reality - such as IT systems. If the UK is making military commitments and is already overstretched has it been considered they may lose some regiments to Scottish control circa 2010. Would Trident remain in Scotland at a loaned base? Will it be easy to separate IT systems?
Perhaps I am overestimating how difficult it will be but 2010 is not that far away and I just don't believe you can plan too much. The act of preparation would focus minds. There are those that may re-consider their views. There may be others who would see opportunities and benefits.
But at least they would be better informed.
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I am supprised there is no bbc coverage or investigation about this:
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-1032385/Labour-MP-spent-500-000-taxpayers-money-running-office-home-staffed-wife.html
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My dear friend "oldnat" is also very much an old codger and whilst he may well have thought that he had seen the last of me, here I am again
He may well find it difficult to understand that some of us even under this curious mix of a Socialist/liberal/PC govenrnment do need to earn a living and we are simply not happy to live off the state - as I presume is his life style
Let us cut to the chase here, there are too many Scottish MP's at Westminster and those with the power such as Brown supposedly represent all of us. The Scottish members are a disgrace to democracy as we have seen over the past twelve years.
There is no need of an election in Glasgow because there are more than enough Scottish MP's to cover that seat. Why add to the tax payers burden. We do not need more little people
We then have another layer in the form of a time wasting talking shop of the so called Scottish Parliament. He will agree with me that it is tedious listening to the likes of Salmond and Alexander and it was also a vehicle for the failed "go back to your Constituencies and prepare for Government" Steel - what ignorance
This simply is not democracy it is a sham and a sop from transient politicians of little worth, it was and still is a con with dangerous consequences for us all
Come on "oldnat" join with us as one, and rebuild our United Kingdom - let us all work together and face the challenges ahead united. Pack up your toy box and forget all about your pipe dreams. Afterall as dreams they are harmless enough - you don't actually need to believe them
Work with us to rebuild our great nation- in your heart you know that that is right - have the courage to face the future as One Nation
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#167 Are you unaware that the only mainstream party in Scottish politics that is absolutely opposed to nuclear weapons is the SNP.
It is one of the many reasons to vote for them.
An independent Scotland would kick the Trident subs out, immediately.
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#130-132 seem awfully close to defamation. Especially since 131 is an exact copy of one that the moderators pulled yesterday.
Attacking others can be part of the fun of blogging, but it has to be done within the House Rules.
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#169 Ukingdom
Surprised that they let you back, after your last contribution. (For those that didn't see it, it was pulled).
However, since it seems you are real (well at least in your own little reality), let me suggest the "honeyed words of Dr Goebbels" approach will serve you no better than it did its originator.
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Ukingdom - I too want to do away with a wasteful talking-shop of a parliament and the unnecessary level of bureaucracy associated with it! The answer is simple: abolish Westminster, give the constituent nations of the UK their independence.
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afternoon, just finished a quick look on line at the sunday papers . they all have different story's about glasgow east.
but by far and away the best story has to be about the labour party complaining about an snp bias within bbc scotland.i nearly choked on ma weetabix, i think it was the aptly named SOS that had the story.
this standards commisioner doesn't half get around these days allegedely. now he's looking at a council allegedely???
and we still have the serialisation of a book to come
and there was poor brian looking for a nice quiete summer recess- no chance pal
watch out for cornered rats - they bite
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Ukingdom I refer you to my post 98.
I am afraid your latest input only strengthens the impression you are one bag short of a load.
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Re #167 from thegangofone:
Spot on!
It's a slight mystery so far as the media is concerned but no surprise re NuLabour. I'm beginning to wonder whether they have anyone competent left. If they do, whoever it is seems to be in hiding just now.
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Apparently Gordon has instructed all the Scottish labour MP's to canvass East Glasgow.
Of the 146 Labour MP's (out of 172 who voted in favour) opting to continue the John Lewis expense gravy train, 16 were Scottish.
Wonder what the voters in East Glasgow will ask them when they meet them on the street?
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I THINK THAT LABOUR HAVE REACHED THE STAGE IN THE GAME WHERE THE ONLY GOOD NEWS THEY ARE LIKELY TO HEAR IS THAT THERE IS NO BAD NEWS.
I WELL REMEMBER THE LAST DAYS OF THE MAJOR GOVERNMENT SEEING TORY MINISTERS BEING HOUNDED BY OPPOSITION MP'S MARSHALLED BY TONY BLAIR AND HIS COHORTS, ITS MORE THAN A LITTLE AMUSING TO SEE THE BOOT ON THE OTHER FOOT
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Re #178 from themiserableoldgit:
True, so do I.
But please switch off your Caps Lock. If you don't the mods will start removing your posts as they are much harder on the eye.
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Re #172 from oldnat:
Well put, sir.
Ukingdom's #169 indicates he has a lot to learn before he will win friends and influence people. I can dimly remember meeting such Col. Blimps in the late '60s but thought they'd gone the way of the dinosaurs until I discovered the blogosphere.
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Re #167 thegangofone
While I take your point, I think such detailed examination needs to wait for a decision by the people of Scotland that we want to have an independent state. It would waste a lot of time and money to do that analysis, if the Scottish Government is refused authority from the people to open negotiations with Westminster.
If there's a Yes vote, then we can anticipate a long period of negotiation. If the Westminster Government is co-operative in the process, then one could hope for a smooth transition, in which systems would be gradually disentangled. If they were obdurate, then it would become very messy.
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Re #173 from pattymkirkwood:
I'm rather with oldnat that Ukingdom's posts are most likely from an SNP plant who's trying to generate exactly your sort of opinion.
If s/he's not, s/he's doing the SNP's job for them.
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Well I guess this is kick Labour time. In the week that the future of the Govan shipyard is secured I can't believe people have such short memories. It's time for Labour to go on the attack and show a united front to the people of Scotland.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#184 Maybe you could just do that then i.e. challenge this person, and stop putting repeditive blogs on here. I think this is the third or fourth on this strand.
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#184
I think you may have the wrong website. Try
"rate my teacher".
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Clever pre-emptive move by the SSP in selecting a candidate whose name might cause confusion with some voters (if Margaret Curran does indeed turn out to be the Labour candidate).
How many people, I wonder, will scan down the alphabetical list of candidates, see Curran, and place their X alongside without noticing that it is Frances Curran.
I wonder if there is, somewhere out there, an Alec Salmond whom Labour might persuade to stand against Alex in future elections.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#187 cousteau669
You do realise that it will be your fault when Labour put up 4 Independents all called John Mason :)
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Quotes from Margaret Curran on BBC
"I have decided to do this because I'm deeply committed to the communities of the east end of Glasgow."
- I have no reason to doubt her genuineness.
"I am hoping to be the Labour nominee in order that we have a spirited campaign in the by-election."
- She's a feisty woman and will certainly make the campaign spirited, but the quote suggests that defeatism is already present in Labour thinking. The usual statements talk about winning.
Or are the quotes just proof of the anti-Labour bias in the BBC reported in today's press?
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My dear chum oldnat
We see Browndov has come to your aid as you are struggling so badly on this issue. I feel that in fairness I should help you as well and try find some common ground between us
I urge to put side your Nationalist aspirations and look at the whole of our broken society and injured nation after twelve years of this government
Look if you will beyond your immediate border and you will see that we need to be focused if we are to right the many wrongs that have resulted from Brown and Co
Brown will lose the Glasgow election most likely to the SNP and we will all celebrate his humiliation and that of his rotten and corrupt party. There is no doubt that for far too long they have been so confident of Scotland, the shock of this loss will play another important part in their downfall
So much have they tinkered with, it is all actually worse now than when they started.
They had so much so much goodwill from throughout the UK in 1997, the elecorates reward - lies deceit, media manipulation and to top it all an ellegal war
together with an attempt to rewrite the cause of that war
Billions squandered, playing games with our constitution, failure on law and order the list is endless and there is no need to repeat it all here. They are accepted facts
They have actually created two societies amongst the young - the employable and the vast number of unemployable
To the shame of Scotland so many in the Government represent that area of Britain at Westminster
I am sure oldnat and I can agree on this
The latest crazy diversion is from Harman of course - a serious cause for alarm - there is no need to make formal judgements on the issue of her sanity
Sadly this is where I am sure oldnat will disagree, but we need one strong leader of courage to right the many wrongs.
Just who will that be?
Let us not waste time and effort splitting the UK but rather concentrate on the monumental task ahead once Brown and Co have gone
We neeed to unite and be ready for that moment
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#191
"we need one strong leader of courage to right the many wrongs"
My Dad spent 5 years in the Royal Artillery fighting attitudes like yours.
I don't debate with Fascists.
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Ukingdom:
"I urge to put side your Nationalist aspirations and look at the whole of our broken society and injured nation after twelve years of this government."
Are you considering that the Conservatives the only party that can run Britain succcessfully?
Shall we look at what happened to Scotland in the last twelve years under a Tory Government and compare?
"Let us not waste time and effort splitting the UK."
What a convincing argument. I shall reccomend the Nationalists to stay onboard this sinking ship...
You simply do not understand the Scottish Nationalists position and will then fail to mend the United Kingdom.
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oldnat:
Funny that. I am considering joining the Royal Artillery.
Small world.
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192
There is no need to be offensive, sadly you have missed the point, to your shame perhaps deliberately so
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#191 Jings! what a sermon from Ukingdom, sounds like something the UKIP or the BNP parties would dream up, what can we expect from them, Rule Britainnia? a new Jerusalem? or just the dark satanic mills.
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Well, Ukingdom(191), your catalogue of misdeeds, including illegal wars, etc, all lie at the feet of the "mother of parliaments", of which you are so fond. Scotland neither wants or needs any part of any of the vile warmongering state which you are so keen on. The UK has lost all moral authority and serves no useful purpose. Best of luck with your search for a "strong leader"- you may want a jackboot on your neck, but most Scots would prefer to live in a country that does no harm to others, minds its own business, and runs its own affairs competently. That country should be Scotland, and would have been years ago but for delusional dinosaurs like you, fondling your Imperial past and dreaming of "strong leaders". What a curse on Scotland you and your like are now, and have always been.
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#194 Thomas_Porter
Good luck to you if you do decide to join up.
Hopefully, with the passing of Bush and Blair, you won't end up where my Dad did - in the desert!
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I see alot of people are touting John Reid for Glasgow East. Although you wouldn't think so, since he's never in parliament, he is still the member for Airdrie and Shotts.
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I think it should be obvious to everyone by now that UKINGDOM is just a wind up merchant and no longer warrents any reply. If you do, you will just pander to his half witted arguments. Ignore him and he will troll somewhere else.
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I read many comments about the BBC being anti Labour. Perhaps some are not old enough to note that during the latter stages of the Conservative Government at Westminster the BBC fairly frequently went for the jugular. I have no doubt that in years to come that they will do the same to the next ailing government.
As far as the much talked about by-election does the population in the east end of Glasgow actually really care who is in power as it will make little difference to their lives. There is generally a low turn out of voters and having the election during the Glasgow Fair is not going to enhance this.
Lets face it as Billy Connolly allegedly stated "Don't vote for them, you'll only encourage them". In view of all the sleaze and corruption that surrounds government maybe he has a point.
My only hope is that George and his cronies take a pasting and that the SNP prevail as they must if we are to rid Scotland of the shackles of Westminster.
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Re #191 from Ukingdom:
So you are an SNP agent provocateur then!
oldnat and Thomas_Porter need no help from me to respond to your idiotic solutions.
What intrigues me is that your analysis of the problems is not too far off the mark except that you do not seem to recognise the democratic defecit that has been building up over the half-century we've had single, universal suffrage and got a whole lot worse since NuLab introduced asymetric devolution, giving rise to revolting peasants in England wanting it too.
Outwith civil war, it's now much too late to put the genie back in the bottle, and I'm not aware of any party leader advocating that.
The celtic and gaelic fringes of the UK happen to quite like what they've seen so far of devolution and England is unlikely to be silly enough as to try to stop it.
If a referendum were held tonight in Scotland asking "Shall we go back to being ruled from Westminster or not?" you know in your heart of hearts that the answer would be a resounding NO.
So the only real alternatives are the status quo, a democratic federated UK, or separation. England won't wear the status quo for much longer unless a much better salesman is found and your sort of ranting can only swell the numbers of the separation lobby.
My preferred solution is the federated one because I believe there are a few economies of scale to be had and that all 4 UK countries could rub along together inside it.
PS: Apologies to oldnat and Thomas_Porter for this rant of my own, but I had to get it off my chest. Silence will reign from me henceforth unless Ukingdom comes to his/her senses.
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hufdeed, eloquently put and you are so right
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#202 Brownedov
"Silence will reign from me henceforth unless Ukingdom comes to his/her senses."
So that's the last we'll ever hear from you! Sad.
However, I don't believe you.
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#201 Did I say George?, I meant Gordon just shows you how confusion rules as I was thinking of the other great weastern leader of democ-ra-whit, Bush who is our real Prime Minister!!
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I thank browndove for his well considered and well written reply (202) It was certainly not a rant
In this debate I have been given several political labels but this is one of those issues which cannot be so easily defined
I do recognise all too well that the "democratic defecit that has been building up over the half-century", but I do not agree with the SNP answer to this
That is the nature of democracy, and we have no alternative other than to agree to differ
A referendum - yes possibly but who will put the questions fairly
I have enjoyed my venture into "Blether with Brian" but the time has come for me to bid you all well from the Shires of England" which as you all know is an integral part of the United Kingdom
Whilst I appreciate some of you would like this to change I sincerely hope it does not
Thank you for your hospitality and please be assured that I am not a Fascist, or a member of UKIP and certaintly not a SNP agent provocateur
You will have gathered that I am not supporter of this government
That leaves two parties and as I am not ready to recommend either as suggested by 193 I will leave you all to continue with your debate
Best wishes to you all
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Re #206
I feel really sorry for the Shires of England. Most people I've met from there, were really nice people.
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#206, back to the Shires, bye bye Bilbo, give my regards too Frodo.
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oldnat
you really are a bad loser
and you have broken your promise 192
Cheers old boy
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Ukingdom(209), haven't you broken your own promise at 206? Declaring yourself the "winner" (by declaring oldnat the "loser") is beyond childish, beyond infantile, even, but totally in keeping with the level of argument you have deployed on this blog. There used to be an organisation called the League of Empire Loyalists, which may still exist, for all I know. If it does, I suggest you join Colonel Blimp and company there, and put the world to rights together over some planter's punch. Unfortunately for you lot,out in the real world, even your oldest colony now wants to leave your beloved empire. Back to the shires indeed, old bean, enjoy the warm glow of being among kindred spirits. But just leave the rest of us alone- we really do want to go our own way, because we don't like yours.
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As a former baillieston constituent I was not impressed at all by Curran. She seemed far happier in front of newspaper cameras than dealing with the problems at hand - and there are a few in that area. She should focus on performing her existing responsibilities well.
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Re #204 from oldnat:
No postings from Ukingdom for 2 hours, so I'll withdraw from my Trappist monastery.
I didn't mean to say "silence" on the entire thread, just in egging on Ukingdom.
Sorry
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Brownedov
"Welcome back to the fight" (Bogart in Casablanca)
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Can we get back on topic here? (Although as an English liberal I personally agree with a lot but by no means all that Ukingdom has been saying, it's just not worth debating it in this forum).
The point is that Labour is so badly up a gum tree on this that almost whatever they do they'll look inept. Confirm Curran and it looks like a desperate put up job; look for another candidate locally and they won't be caught in a rush.
How Labour can have gone from the relatively slick machine of 2001 to the bankrupt, ideologically debased and timid party of 2008 is an object lesson in the politics of incompetent leadership. And no, I don't support them...
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Re #214 from Woundedpride:
"an object lesson in the politics of incompetent leadership
Well said and spot on, and remember that Scotland has had a double dose of it for the past year from the uninspiring double act of Gormless Gordon and Bendy Wendy.
With one gone and the other 8 time zones away trying to look important, I wonder who'll actually make the decisions.
That all their local activists have not gone into terminal decline is a tribute either to their idiocy or their loyalty, depending on your point of view.
Looking on the bright side, they still have two full days to make more mistakes and for the hacks to ferret out more bad news about the runners.
Enough of NuLabour's woes, what about those of the electorate?
You say you're "liberal", I'm guessing you wouldn't pick either NuLabour or SNP as #1 choice in a democratic election. So how would you advise people to vote who shared your views?
Obviously if there was STV for Westminster you could list them in inverse order of detestation but what do you do with one X only allowed?
Though a LibDem supporter until they chose Lisbon over honesty/democracy if I had a vote there I would normally be tempted to vote that way as the leastworst option. Here though, I'd probably vote for the proverbial monkey of whatever party if I thought it could beat NuLabour.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Re #216 from Wansanshoo:
Sounds a perfect choice to me, but sadly I think he's still MP for Airdrie and Shotts and even NuLabour are not lunatic enough to want him to stand down from there and force another by-election.
As the one democracy in the Middle East, Israel could do with more savoury friends.
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217 Brownedov,
The new Nulabour plan calls for John Reid to be saved for the resignation of Jack McConnell in Motherwell and Wishaw parachute him in to Holyrood and in six months take over as leader from either Cathy Jamieson or Iain Gray who will already be heading for oblivion.
You heard it hear first:)
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Re #218 from freedjmac:
Thanks for the info - another invincible cunning plan. Wonder what medecine they're on today?
It'll be fun watching it unravel if it comes to pass.
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Regarding John Reid, I'm not sure why being a staunch unionist or a friend of Israel compare to the other things listed. They're well within the norms of liberal democracy.
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If you were a prospective candidate in a by-election that you knew for a fact would be lost for you by your party then would you stand ? It would not be a career enhancing move really, would it ?
George Ryan was sensible in protecting his own future as he knows that NeoLabour in it's current form is doomed. Finally.
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Re my own #215:
On reflection, maybe I should consider voting for the NuLabour monkey on the basis that it might help Brown stay in power long enough to guarantee removal of their whole sick edifice come the general election?
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"She is from the East End, she is the MSP for Baillieston, in the East End."
I was told she lives in a half million pound house in the plush Southside of Glasgow - the East End of Glasgow was abandoned a long time ago by the Labour party - can anyone confirm if she has abandoned it too?
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Perhaps it is time to get a monkey from Glasgow Zoo and slap a red rosette on its chest so we can finally put to test that age old accusation levelled at the voting habits of the people of Glasgow.
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The SNP and other parties must be laughing their heads off! The Labour campaign is an embarrassing joke and the party should be ashamed of itself.
Labour, old and new, is dead. Lets hope the people of Glasgow East finally bury the corpse before it starts to really stink.
Maybe then the existing Labour party puppets can step into the new century and create a party that really is for the Scottish people.
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# 224 dmacaulay - Re monkey: please see my comment at #51.
However, I have noticed two other NuLabour contenders are vying for the monkey's spot:
A "hamster with a Labour rosette" (#69) and (on another website) a "deid sheep wearing a red rosette".
In case the monkey decides to stand after all, I have decided to open a book:
Monkey - evens
Hamster - 2/1
Deid sheep - 10/1
Margaret Curran 33/1
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Bighaullabaloo, can I have a fiver on Margaret Curran? Each-way of course.
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Seriously though, I'm sitting here in hot, sunny North Carolina trying to imagine how difficult it would be to find a replacement if my local Congressman stood down in October. He regularly gets 60%+ of the vote. Even at short notice there would be a queue round the block at the Board of Elections. After all, who wouldn't want to inherit a seat where, historically, 60% of the electorate vote for your party?
Hmmmm....
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#227 Sorry Skip_NC: I had to close the book after it was leaked to the Sunday Herald that the first three runners turned down Gordon Brown's personal request to stand, making Curran a shoo-in for the Labour candidacy. However the SNP's man looks like a good bet to win the by-election itself. He's currently at 6/5. Stick your fiver on him.
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That's too bad, Bighullabaloo, I thought I had it worked out.
The monkey was clearly too intelligent to be a real contender.
The hamster was small, and despite running all the time, got nowhere and so was clearly a Lib Dem in disguise.
I found it hard to tell the other two apart, except one of them had an unsavoury whiff about them.
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Hallo rerr! Is that right? I thought I should try to pick up the local vernacular while I'm here, as it seems to be proving to be somewhat too great a challenge for my universal translator, for which I may also demand a refund on my return to the planet Pimple. I hope I have more luck with that than I had with returning the Beano and the Daily Record here, which I seem to be stuck with. Perhaps I shall succeed in finding alternative uses for them.
Anyway, as I'm still here, having got a little disorientated as a result of endeavouring to follow in good faith the no-doubt well-intentioned directions of the last Earthling that I encountered, I thought I would just check up on this by-election thing again, as nothing much seemed to be happening the last time I looked into it. For something which is said to be crucial to the survival of the supreme overlord of the upper echelons of the administration of the governmental entity known as UK, this seems a little odd. But hey, it's your planet.
Before I could make my way back to the Labour control centre, however, I was contacted by the Pimploid central directorate, which is located on the asteroid Aneroid, so that it is not too easily reached by the mass of Pimpletons, who, like most Earthlings, to be absolutely honest with you, really need to be kept at arm's length . . . well, somewhat more than arm's length, actually. But I'm wandering off the point. To cut a long story short, I've been informed that an intercept of a communication emanating from the Labour control centre in Glasgow indicates that my communications have been intercepted by the beings within it, who are critical of my standard of reporting. Swipe me. It seems - would you Adam and Eve it? - that they are representing it as misrepresentation. They say I'm biased against them by making them out to be a bunch of pathetic cretins, whatever that may mean. I think I may have touched a raw nerve.
Anyway, is there a Labour candidate yet? Has this bunch of whatever they would prefer to be represented as managed to get their act together yet? No, it seems not. Swipe me again. For the love of the wee man . . . or wumman, as the case me be. Are they trying to lose this competition? Is that what all this is about? Some faction or other possibly wants to lose the election so that the supreme overlord will be chucked overboard? Curiouser and curiouser. I'm away to have another go at reading my Daily Record. Toodloothenoo.
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Greetings #231
Have you considered standing for election as the Labour candidate yourself? Your knowledge and experience seem more than sufficient for the job, all you would have to do is wear a red rosette and wave your arms/tentacles/appendages about a bit. On election, you would have access to large amounts of our Earth currency, which you might find useful.
If you do not wish to stand, maybe you could appease the control centre which you seem to have offended by offering a token 950 of our Earth pounds to campaign funds for their new regional overlord. I'm sure your lack of Earth residence status would present no problems to its acceptance.
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Bighullabaloo,
I wish I could have a wee flutter. Unfortunately, as I live in North Carolina, USA I am banned under federal and state law from doing so. The Feds will treat it as wire or mail fraud (depending on how you place the bet). The last prominent person to get sentenced for mail fraud in NC was the Speaker of the State House of Representatives. He got five years in federal lock-up. Imagine Alex Salmond getting five years for having a bet!
Anyway, can anyone explain to me why David Cameron gets top billing on the BBC website? Surely the SNP is out campaigning today? Isn't that worth reporting?
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#233 Skip_NC,
It gets worse than that, I've got Beeb1 on right now, in order to watch Reporting Scotland. Instead, I'm seeing BBC London News!!
The EBC has finally taken over, it seems.
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It gets worse as the Scottish online news headline Cameron in Glasgow at the side under the heading of Other News is the SNP.
The bias is certainly Westminster loaded.
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Has Nu Lab sabotaged the Beeb? No Scottish news but lots about the Capital and a wee dolly bird as anchor person.This makes a pleasant change from being shouted at by Jackie Bird. Methinks there's nobody at the Beeb actually watching what's being transmitted , maybe the're all asleep.
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I missed the fact that I didn't actually miss the Scottish News because there wasn't anyway.
I was out for a meal and Gordon Brown will be delighted to know I didn't waste any of it!
No News, Brian hasn't started a new thread since lunchtime on Saturday. Is this a conspiracy??
Will this blog suddenly .....
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It seems almost a shame to intrude on Labour's private grief.
What can be going on? Could the monkey with the red rosette have escaped?
Not even new speculation on the media.
Like oldnat I think I had better take a break to sup - I wouldn't want to choke on my food when I hear the outcome.
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I'm sorry - I'm feeling a mite confused! Margaret Curran has just been confirmed as the Labour candidate for the Glasgow East seat in Westminster where the Labour Party currently has a substantial majority (as it does in Glasgow East). However she is quoted as saying "Let me be clear: Labour's fightback starts right here, right now." Who is she fighting back against and why?
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#239
answers to your questions
1. Us 2. Power
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Hello again oldnat -still plugging away I see
The whole of Scotland must be choked off with your twitterings old man particularly poor Brian
The truth is Labour is in a total mess, they will lose the Glasgow election
If the offbeat amalgam calling themselves the SNP win as is most likely the case, they will claim that it is because the people of Scotland all want the same as them
Nothing could be further from the truth - events will unfold and prove this to you
In fact we will all celebrate Brown and Co losing no matter if the seat is won by the SNP, Libdems or the renewed Conservatives
Do not celebrate too quickly, because such by-elections are purpose built for causing upsets in the political world - this is the nature of our wonderful democray
Your ravings oldnat show that you were once a Scottish Socialist within the ranks of Labour - did they ask you to leave we wonder
Time to give up your nonsense both in terms of poitical aligence and writing enormous amouts of garbage to this blog
Poor Brian he must have a headache by now, give the poor chap a break and he is bound to write again for us, perhaps even explaining to you the merits of the refreshed and renewed Conservatives whom no doubt you secretly admire
It is simply not good for you to live in the past
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Here Brian
whats is going on with the bbc and reporting scotland. where was it?
I go the website to look up the margaret curran article and in the links to other sites the page i find this
FROM OTHER NEWS SITES
Yorkshire Post Labour choosing for 'must-win' seat - 24 mins ago
Nottingham Evening Post Labour choosing for 'must-win' seat - 34 mins ago
Harrow Times Labour choosing for 'must-win' seat - 35 mins ago
Cambridge Evening News Labour choosing for 'must-win' seat - 50 mins ago
Kings Lynn News Labour choosing for 'must-win' seat - 1 hr
ALL i can say is EBC. (supporting the labour party)
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Brownedov
You're going to have to take up your Trappist vows again, I'm afraid. The Aliens have returned!
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Re #243 oldnat
mmmmmmmmmmmmmm..................
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I gather that the Labour Party has just managed to select a candidate to defend its theoretically ultra-safe Westminster seat of Glasgow East. I suppose that congratulations are in order. What a struggle it has been. The experience of witnessing it has been not unreminiscent of watching a chicken trying to lay an egg and not quite managing it. One has felt tempted to put the poor old bird out of its misery, but possibly that will happen presently.
And so Labour has laboured and laid an egg. Or, to put it another way, the mountain has brought forth a mouse. No disrespect to Ms Curran, who, one would like to think, is not the mediocre dessicated party hack that people are saying that she is. How ungallant. She is, all the same, Labour's fifth choice for the candidacy, one gathers, and is asking the electorate of one of the neediest constituencies in the United Kingdom to let her be their MP on a part-time basis. Is this wise?
All that I will say about her prospects is that, if I were an elector of Glasgow East, I would not vote for her.
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Brian is correct to say that Labours position is recoverable in Glasgow East. I assume that is what he meant?
It would take something truly monumental for Labour to lose this seat. Yes I would like to see Labour get stuffed but I cant see it happenning - maybe I will be proved wrong?
It would be all the sweeter to see Labour getiing whipped especially as they have the Official Screaming Banshee candidate now in place.
I will stick my long neck out and say that Liebaah will win seat by 5,000 at least and probably more like 7,000.
I just cant see where SNP is going to pick up votes here really? Lets be realistic - Liebaah chose the timing of this election for good reasons - never forget they are a deeply cynical political machine. Also the press and media is locked up to back them.
Of course we could eat all the monkeys with red rosettes and make sure we dont leave any waste - it might temporaily drop the price of food? I doubt it though?
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I always had admiration for Margaret Curran as a feisty woman who, I have no reason to suppose doesn't fight well for her constituents on Scottish domestic issues.
She would probably be more effective than Wendy was at holding Salmond to account.
So why on earth does she want to transfer to Westminster where all she will be required to do is to deliver a New Labour (Tory) vote to impose on England? Oh, and she also gets to vote for invading other countries!
I'm sorry that she obviously has decided to put her party interests ahead of those of her current constituents.
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Oldnat, you were doing so well! You had declared that you would not be drawn into silly debating games by extremists, and yet you found yourself so drawn at the end of the day. But having read all the comments thus far, you happily find yourself in a win-win situation: (i) if UKingdom is indeed an unConservative chap and simply attempting to wind you up (my own opinion) then you have already seen through him; (ii) if he truly is what he represents in his posts, then we have the double joy of himself only damaging the cause he espouses, and seeing the back of him when independence comes due to said espousal. Seriously though chaps, and I appreciate this is a tad hypocritical given the previous few sentences - let us return to the topic in hand, instead of giving airtime to some odd arguments and melodramatic declamations about independence, etc.
So back to the topic in hand. I don't see Labour getting stuffed at all, but I see it as a much closer contest than a 13'500 majority ought to be. Labour will be wounded, I feel, but they will hold - so long as no more calamities befall them (alternatively, read 'don't set any more elephant traps before promptly walking into it). I won't make any comments on why people will still vote labour, except to point out that to assume anyone doing so is only doing so because their parents did is to unfairly doubt the person; they may well have a good reason, so let them alone, as that is what democracy is all about. Such is my prediction anyway, although I will keep a retraction at hand to mitigate any embarrasment (true to my colours, I will be an embarrased, but happy chappy).
Anyway, on with the blog - and while I agree with previous comments that replying to personal posts is a satisfying way to proceed, it should not be allowed to cloud the proper issue.
E
P.S. Love the alien chat - absolutely fantastic. Clever and amusing - who said Scottish comedy was dead?
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Not EBC but ABC it seems
Top story on the News Front Page is now "Church votes backs women bishops" and no mention of the fragrant Ms Curran.
Certainly got their priorities right, eh?
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Although one understands why more able candidates have been unwilling to enter the fray on behalf of the Labour Party in the forthcoming by-election, the fact that so many have turned away from the challenge and forced the party to accept a candidate who has been damned with faint praise and is proposing to serve only as a part-time member of the Westminster parliament does not commend it or her to the voters, even more of whom may now decide that the Labour Party does not deserve their support.
"Necessity never made a good bargain." (Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, 1735)
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#248
I was careful not to respond to those posts directly - they were "3rd party" responses. If you did not see his post that was removed, my Nazi references were not accidental! I strongly believe that violent extremism should be ridiculed and humiliated.
I agree with you that Labour will probably win Glasgow East. If they lose, that will be absolute melt-down.
I wasn't being sarcastic about Margaret Curran in my previous post. She seems to be the sort of MP who needs to be at Holyrood (OK, I'd rather she was in opposition than in power - in the same way that Socialists in Holyrood played a useful role).
Can anyone explain how she can better serve her current constituents by being in London, rather than Edinburgh?
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Re #251 oldnat
"Can anyone explain how she can better serve her current constituents by being in London, rather than Edinburgh?"
I should get some sleep, oldnat - I think you'll have a longish wait for a sensible answer.
Night all.
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#252 Brownedov
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.............
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Re #251 oldnat
Is the answer not that she wants to better serve her constituents but to get a nice pad in London with a large flat screen tv
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#220 Aanaxim.
I was simply forwarding the fact that his views go from mainstream to extreme, this, in my opinion makes him politically bankrupt.
The former secretary for defence should not be singing the praises of a paramilitary organisation that his soldiers are fighting.
His stance on the Dawn Primarolo story is to remain silent and hope it will go away.
The Guardian also claim he struck a paliamentary attendant when he was refused entry to the chamber, it was claimed he was drunk, we are now told he has given up alcahol completely.
Wansanshoo
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#247 OldNat
£24,000 John Lewis vouchers
Flat Screen Tvs
£500,000 in "secretarial" assistance
Better Salary
Great pension scheme
need I go on?
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Oldnat, my apologies - unfortunately for myself, I posted just after you had done so doing exactly what I was extolling! Well, great minds and all that...
It's a good question you pose, but should be looked at from the normal political perspective. This is a career move, so why is she doing it? I wonder if she hasn't basically been sat down by party members and told this is one of Labour's safest seats (with the implication that if it is lost, it won't matter who lost it - the New Labour project itself will then be next to go, and everyone with it) and that Mr Brown will be extremely happy should it be retained, and with the person that retained it. In an unfortunate way for her, she cannot lose; if she wins, she is the star of the party (certainly here) and if she loses, well, everyone connected with New Labour will presumably begin 'drafting a face-saving letter of resignation, Bernard'. Ok, maybe not that dramatic or that swift, but I couldn't resist the Yes, Minister connection...
I agree with you oldnat, in that it would be nice to see some of our people who worked their way south on merit returning to north of the border, from every party. But the centre of political power is London, and I suspect you only 'make' it in politics if you get the call south...
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What an insult the appointment of Ms Margaret Curran as the Labour candidate for Glasgow East.
Not only is she already an MSP for Ballieston but if she wins the Westminster seat for Glasgow East has said she has no plans to relinquish one of those jobs. What she is effectively saying is that she will be a part time representative to both her constituencies.
Does not Glasgow East demand and deserve a dedicated representative.
This boils down to the fact that GB cannot afford another by-election so damn the electorate and hurrah for the Labour Party again.
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Re #257 Eoin_og
Good analysis, but sadly I'm right that oldnat won't be getting a direct answer anytime soon unless someone has the guts to say "she can't".
I don't think you need apologise for the Yes, Minister reference. It and the House of Cards trilogy were more drama documentaries than anything else.
They should still be required reading and/or viewing for anyone thinking of standing for office, and part of the "Citizenship" syllabus NuLabour bang on about.
Somehow I don't feel that the NuLabour elite took much notice of them before beginning their climb up "The Greasy Pole" and will learn to regret it on their faster descent.
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Re: #141
i think you will find it would work the other way around. its one of the few angles they have been able to exploit on salmond with any realy success and they now cannot do so. even on that note, salmond has always said he would chuck it after a genreal election, and there might not be long to wait for one. i see curran is now saying she would do both, due to having similar constituencies which is the most obscene attempt at loophole exploitation. the record and the sun backed her, but their refusal to give even the slightest nod in the snps direction make them both sound like rambling rags still in denail, more so than they were before. voters in by elections can by affected by the high profile figures who turn up - and theres been one man notable by his abscence
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Saintmm #258:
You are probably right. But infortunately a precident has been set here.
Jim Wallace did both and so does our current First Minister.
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Did nobody see Paxo stuffing Salmond on Newsnight, Monday? It was Michael Howard all over again: the same question repeated, the same evasive non-answer half a dozen times.
Paxman accused the SNP of not fulfilling election pledges, to students etc., etc. And he asked: "Will you fulfil your pledges?"
Salmond replied: Our programme is going on." (Or words very similar).
Paxman tried again: "Will you fulfil your pledges?" The identical reply. And so on, and on.
The smirk had vanished. The bloodhound eyes were resentful. Not a happy Alex!
It is symptomatic of the awfulness of Holyrood debate that nobody there can pin Salmond down. Yet a professional broadcaster can nail him with a single question.
Paxman's look said it all: "You may be a big boy in Scotland's Mickey Mouse show, but you're out of your league with me chum."
Still, few voters in Glasgow East will be Newsnight regulars.
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#262 Brigadierjohn
Absolutely right but what politician could be subjected to the same questioning without having the same outcome, irrespective of their party affiliation?
A bit of a pointless line from Paxo really unless you like MP/MSP baiting. (A little harmless late night entertainment I suppose). We all knew the outcome before he started.
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Saintmm: True, but isn't he supposed to be our best? Perhaps he's slipped into a comfort zone due to lack of real opposition?
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I think Paxman made a fool of himself!
A bit of a Kirsty Wark moment since this is about a Westminster election and not about Holyrood.
Mr Salmond has three more years of a minority government to attempt to put through the manifesto in full.
Mind you, with the labour Party accusing the BBC of an SNP bias , chortle, maybe the Paxman thought he was rectifying the situation.
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John:
Paxman does this type of stuff for his living. The person from Labour did not stand a chance either.
However, I am glad Salmond was able to mention that his Government was a minority Government who has been forced to accept the outcome of the Opposition Parties for example with the Edinbrugh Trams. 500 million out of our budget and yet the public, especailly the Labour supporters and anti-SNP out there still accept the SNP to deliver their manifesto.
Perhaps Paxman should become the Scottish Labour Leader then we will see comes out best at First Minister's Question Time.
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Re #260 Ross_Morton
Spot on with almost everything you say there, Ross.
But be fair to McAvity: His presence now would hardly help Curran, would it?
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#262
To be fair to Salmond (which I find myself doing somewhat reluctantly), his answer of'our programme continues' is probably about as accurate an answer as he can give. Whilst, giving him the benefit of the doubt, he may intend to fulfill his manifesto promises, there is no way he (or indeed any politition) can categorically say that they will fulfill them - he simply has no way of knowing. Much of his spending plans, which now appear to have been shelved, hinged on the SNP being able to scrap the lab/libs plans for the largely unwanted tram project. Had that extra £0.5 billion been available, who knows what promises he might have been able to keep.
As an aside, Nichol Stephen used the failure of the SNP Government to stop the tram project as an example of one of the weaknesses of a minority administration when giving his review of the first year of the SNP in power. You have to wonder, if that's how he feels about it, why didn't he and his party vote with the SNP to scrap it rather than with Labour to continue with a costly exercise that, it would appear, no-one in Edinburgh actually wants?
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I could have sworn I heard someone shout during the Paxman interview with Salmond " Look the Emperors got no clothes on". What was that all about, first a Westminster MP on to talk about a Westminster By-election does not want to share a platform with a Scottish Office Minister are the SNP scared of David Cairns. I note he also came off best against the bold Nicola on Question Time.
Perhaps some of my Nat friends can help me out, is there and truth in the rumour that John Mason wants to change his not to Alex Salmond First Minister in support of John Mason. A bit of a mouth full but if something works why change.
SNP a one man band never.
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Re 262, I saw it too and I thought Paxman came across as childish. Has he pursued Labour with the same vigour over their manifesto misses? Referendum on Europe perhaps?
His relentless questioning of Michael Howard was justified in that instance.
In this instance he didn't give Alex a chance to answer properly, and Alex's eventual reply had some merit, that essentially manifesto pledges are based on an assumption of a majority government. The reality of minority governments is that manifesto commitments sometimes cannot be pushed through regardless of desire on the part of the SNP, a point seemingly lost on Jeremy.
PS. Having not seen Newsnight for a few weeks now, has the Glasgow by-election really stressed Jeremy so much his hair's gone very grey?
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The voters of Glasgow East to vote for a Baptist called John Mason; I think the midstream change of horses by the Labour party to Margaret Curran could prove to be an insightful move.
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Thomas: I think you'll find Alex does it for a living also. The Labour guy was not to be browbeaten either. He kept his sense of humour and scored a couple of counter punches.
Disgusteddorothy: A bit desperate there? I think the SNP want to be judged on Holyrood performance, regardless of it being a Westminster seat. Either way, he performed badly, I think.
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Chrisbowie: I think Paxo gives everyone a hard time, but when it's your man in the seat there will always be the perception that he asks the "wrong" question - i.e., not the one you we ready to answer.
Do you think Alex Salmond expected Paxman to let him make propaganda speeches? You have to be ready for him. Alex wasn't. End of story.
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brigadierjohn: you may something on the perception front, it's just the only tough question I ever remember Paxman asking Tony Blair was whether he felt personally responsible for the death of Dr David Kelly during the '05 election one-on-ones. However I stand to be corrected if anyone else can remember Paxo giving Tony or Gordon a kicking live on air?
And don't forget Newsnight has previous on unwarranted badgering of Alex Salmond, given Kirsty (I holiday with Jack McConnell) Wark's pre-election nonsense.
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John:
Paxman was not as tough on the person from Labour compared to Salmond (not the first time Paxman pulled this stunt). Salmond done well and was able to explain the reality of being a minority Government.
The SNP cannot and should not publically state that their promises will be kept. At the end of the day, the SNP has to gain support of other MSP's and the Tories, Lib Dems and Labour are not exactly going to simply let the Nationalists fullfill their promises so easily.
I am quite happy that the Lib Dems and Tories have taken several opportunites to allow and negociate their say on the SNP policies. Scottish Labour have not been so friendly and have accomplished nothing after one year in Opposition.
I don't think they realise the amount of influence they have in an minority Government.
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May I seek some clarification here, as a member of the electorate from the southern part of our nation I would really appreciate guidance from all parties concerned
Hitherto I have been referred to in extremely unpleasant terms by self appointed spokesmen of the largest Nationalist Party of the UK
Am I right in thinking that the SNP leader is a member of the "Scotland's Mickey Mouse show" (to quote brigadierjohn), and a member of the House of Commons
Does he or does he not draw an income and expenses from both - I have no idea
Does he and his Party object to Ms Curran being a member of both houses should she win the by-election?
Did I hear correctly that she would be a part time worker at Westminster if elected but would only draw one set on income and expenses?
I have to say that I agree that poor Mr Salmond looked mmost uncomforable being asked quite reasonable question by Mr Paxman. It does not do policitians of any colour good when it is necessary to repeat questions in the search for a straight answer
Perhaps the outcome is not so certain afterall - perhaps the Conservatives and/or the Libdems are going to give the surprise result afterall
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Signing off now, having been recalled to face charges of interfering in the affairs of a primitive culture (no offence intended) and boring the pants off the population of an entire planet.
I see, by the way, that that Labour thing has finally got itself a candidate for the by-election thing. Two candidates with the same name now. Interesting. Not that I am actually biased or anything, contrary to any impression which may have been given to the contrary, . . . but may the best man win.
PS. Whoever it was who set off the fire alarm yesterday evening at the Glasgow installation of the organism for the dissemination of propaganda for the overlords of the upper echelons of the administration of the governmental entity known as UK, . . . it wisnae me. Toodloo.
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Ukingdom:
"Does he or does he not draw an income and expenses from both."
Yes. You have to claim the MP and MSP salaries. However, Salmond has ensured that the MP salary is directed into a charity.
"Does he and his Party object to Ms Curran being a member of both houses should she win the by-election?"
They feel the East Enders deserve a full-time representative. Salmond campaigned and allowed the electorate to know that he planned the stay as an MP if elected an MSP. The electorate still voted for Salmond.
However, under Scottish Labour Party rules Ms Curran should only have one seat. Scottish Labour are breaking their own rules. Similar to the donations scandel which they were caught breaking their own rules.
"Did I hear correctly that she would be a part time worker at Westminster if elected but would only draw one set on income and expenses?"
As I explained earlier Salmond was not allowed to accept one salary. Ms Curran will also not be allowed to draw one salary. Ms Curran may also be accepted to go to London, she will need a London house and will also have to claim allowance for a home there.
"It does not do policitians of any colour good when it is necessary to repeat questions in the search for a straight answer."
As I explained earlier. Manifesto's are written on the assumption of gaining a majority of seats. The Scottish Gov uses PR and this tends to mean one party never gains over 50% of the seats. The SNP are a minority Government and has to rely on other Parties to pass Bills. The Opposition are not exactly jumping for the chance to allow the SNP to complete their promises.
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The current King of Scotland does indeed draw salaries from both Parliaments, though he says that one of said salaries is donated to a charity. No idea about his expenses.
But if he can sit in both parliaments, then he can't complain about anyone else doing it, ridicule aside.
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As did the sainted Donald Dewar.
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279: I'm not aware he or anybody else in the SNP has complained... just pointed out the hypocrisy of la Curran and her colleagues slagging off wee Eck for doing it and now proposing to do exactly the same thing because nobody else would stick their hand up to be the Labour candidate in the safest seat in the country(?)
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Re #270 chrisbowie
Best response on the Paxo issue I've seen, and I'm not pro SNP whilst wishing them well in this by-election.
Any fair minded viewer will think Salmond handled himself very well when faced by a Yes/No question about as unreasonable as "Have you stopped beating your wife?" and I'll wager he had no advance notice of it. With hindsight, of course could have done it more smoothly but for a live response to a tricky question he handled it civilly and without prevarication.
It certainly won't go down as one of Paxman's finest moments and, come to think of it, I haven't seen him go for the throat of anyone from NuLabour over broken manifesto promises, let alone the ones they haven't had time to break yet.
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Chrisbowie #274: I can't give you any facts about Paxo's treatment of politicians, party by party. I'd be a bit of a sad anorak if I could.
I think most people would agree that Labour hasn't come to terms with being out of power in Scotland.
The opposite may be true of the SNP. Alex Salmond, in opposition, was encouraged by the media to "have a kick" at Labour and Tories alike. He didn't have to answer for it. Perhaps Alex - certainly his supporters - hasn't quite grasped that he is now The Establishment, and the media and opposition consider it their duty (and it is) to give him a hard time.
It is fair and right to point out that Salmond cannot bring forward his hard-line policies (but just wait) while he leads a minority government. But in the political circus, where he willingly participates, he knows better than anyone that saying as much counts as whingeing.
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As set out in the Scotland Act, a person who is concurrently an MSP and an MP (such as Alex Salmond) receives an MP's salary in full and ONE THIRD of an MSP's salary.
As widely reported following the 2007 Holyrood election, Alex Salmond tried to decline this arrangement, but was told - that's the law!
Thereafter, he set up a charitable trust, named after his late mother, and the MSP element is paid to this trust; an arrangement which be ended at the next General Election when he stands down as an MP.
Mr Salmond does, of course, receive an additional salary as First Minister of £77,000.
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"if he can sit in both parliaments, then he can't complain about anyone else doing it."
GlasgowGooner # 279.
So, let me see if I'm following your logic:
The people who complained about Salmond sitting in both parliaments can complain about him, but Salmond can't complain about them.
And obviously, the fact that the people who did complain about Salmond are the very same people who now want to sit in both parliaments themselves, that has no bearing on the matter at all.
It doesn't, for example, expose them yet again as nothing but a bunch of pathetic hypocrites?
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Just a daft thought:
Since Wee Eck is an MSP and an MP as well as First Minister; does la Curran think she also needs to be an MP as well as an MSP to qualify as leader of Scottish Labour?
Naah... naebody could be that daft, could they...?
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I'm no Tory, but does anyone agree with me that Cameron played his hand yesterday pretty well yesterday?
He smoothly denied that holding the launch at St Jude's "made it an appropriate venue" as the Grauniad puts it, while making sure that all the reports including the Herald and Crick's snippet on Newnight trot out the same "Jude is the patron saint of hopeless cases and things almost despaired of" (Herald) mantra or variations on it.
The Herald even goes on to say "Had he done his homework it was a howler that could easily have been avoided."
I'm sure he did do his homework and that his years in Carlton must have given him an insight into subliminal messaging. He'll be hoping that the 2,135 souls who turned out for Carl Thomson in 2005 get the message and vote for Mason this time.
If he managed to have a quiet word with Davena Rankin it was probably to tell her not to worry about the lost deposit and that he'd had a fruitful chat with Annabel Goldie about winnable future seats for her.
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Re 285 bighullabaloo
Good one. Succinct and to the point.
There's no question that it's NuLabour trying to win another stick to beat their own backs with, especially as Ms Curran has not even said she'll stand down as an MSP at the 2011 election.
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PS to my #287
Been having access problems with the Scotsman site and just noticed that they used the same PA report as the Grauniad.
If they think it not worth sending a hack the length of the M8 to see what the probable next UK PM is doing it says volumes about how relevant they think Tories voters will be to the fight.
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Just watched Paxman's interview on newsnight featuring Alex Salmond.
One has to say Paxman came across as a petulent public schoolboy. I checked and, surprise, surprise, that is exactly what he is. If, at any point, he had thrown in "my dad's bigger than your dad" it wouldn't have been out of place in his "incisive political interview".
His insistence on attacking the SNP's record on keeping manifesto promises only exposed how hopelessly out of touch he is with the mood of the Scottish people - and especially how well received what the SNP has done has been received by ordinary people.
It strikes me that the people of Glasgow East may have had just about enough of being treated as morons who would vote for a monkey in a red rosette, and may instead vote SNP en masse to give Gordon Brown a little insight into what they think of the John Lewis list.
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brigadier john # 283
"Perhaps Alex - certainly his supporters - hasn't quite grasped that he is now The Establishment, and the media and opposition consider it their duty (and it is) to give him a hard time."
Laughed out loud when I read this one! You can't possibly have missed that the Labour party were in denial for months after they lost the election in Scotland - and have gone around since acting as if they were still in power, but finding out that it just makes them look like total idiots.
"Giving Salmond a hard time" - I must say Labour and the Lib Dems have been doing a bang up job of that - the leader of Scottish Labour threw in the towel and was swiftly followed by the leader of the Scottish Lib-Dems!
Yep, Salmond must be thinking these are the hardest times he's ever had!
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re # 267 well as cameron keeps bringing it up it remains an issue, he turns up he is an "unwelcome prescence" who caved to tory pressure
if he doesnt he is a weak pm who doesnt trust himself and knows hes out of touch
as for the salmond thing, no one is saying that if curran wins he is instantly right but labour lose the ability to take him to task on it
aside from even the expenses issue there are many people who exploit the system. has john presscot been replaced as an mp yet?
i havent see mcconnel in holyrood for a while either
and running celtic must be a full time job, how often has john reid graced the chamber in the last year?
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Bighullaballoo #291: Read it again. It was me, not you, who made the point about Labour not coming to terms, i.e. "in denial." I take your point about effective opposition, but my point was about the Paxman interview, and - you are entitled to differ - I thought Salmond was poor. Perversely perhaps, as a Scot I felt diminished by such inadequacy from the man considered by many to be our best politician.
I also made the point about the poverty of opposition in #264. Do try to keep up.
Your #290 was pure splenetic SNP negativity - if anyone makes a point against you they instantly suffer a petulant personal attack.
Big H, even by your standards these were weak and puerile attacks.
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#293 brigadier john - oh dear! Doesn't take much to bring the venom out does it? But I suppose it has the benefit of showing people what type of person writes posts posts like yours.
So your point was just "about the Paxman interview" was it? You really should read your own post again.
You wrote : "Alex...hasn't quite grasped that he is now The Establishment, and the media and OPPOSITION consider it their duty (and it is) to give him a hard time."
However I do note you've "taken my point" on that bit. You should be a politician.That's the sort of thing they like to say when someone has just nailed them on the garbage they're spouting.
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Re #292 Ross_Morton
Re McAvity.
Yes, I suppose so. Once he ducked Crewe he'd lost it and whatever he does now is seen as dithering. Given what else he's been doing that seems to sum up the man pretty well.
Re Salmond.
Spot on. NuLabour haven't just lost one of their few weapons against him, but handed it to Salmond with a freshly sharpened tip because Curran says she won't stand down as an MSP full stop.
Re Prescott, McConnell, Reid, et al
Tour're right - All pretty rare sightings in their respective chambers. Makes it all the more odd in Marshall's case. They've brought MPs into Westminster on stretchers before now when they're facing a tight vote. All the more reason for the whips to say to Marshall something along the lines of "keep your head down and retire at the next election". Nobody could or would have done anything about it and his pension would be bigger. That, coupled with the unusual haste in calling the by-election seems to indicate that something odd is going to come out soon and whatever it is can't be good for NuLabour.
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PS to my #295
Just looked at McConnell's website.
Last Surgery date: 17th Sept 2007
(by appointment only, of course)
Last Speech: 15th August 2007
(Statement on Future Plans)
The future plans can be summarised as "I'm off to Africa but will still be your MSP"
scottish.parliament.uk does still list him as an MP
Why didn't Marshall follow suit?
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I still find it hilariously funny that the Prime Minister daren't show his face in Glasgow East in case he makes matters worse for the candidate...
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Greetings or rather hallo rerr, as you say in your local idiom, or so my errant offspring tells me from the cell which he is now occupying in the bowels of the incarceration unit of the central directorate for the prevention of interference in the affairs of primitive cultures (no offence intended).
I would like to thank those of you who have offered to send him a lifelong supply of something called the Daily Record, but I do not know how that could be accomplished, as you simply do not have the technology, my poor dears. Anyway, would it be worth the candle? When I put the suggestion to the sprog, he was violently sick for some reason but has since perked up and wishes me to explain that he hasn't finished the one he brought back with him yet and has no great expectation of doing so. In any case, incarceration on the planet Pimple bears a strikingly uncanny resemblance to regimes currently in place in institutions of public correction in your neck of the woods, apparently.
So there he is sitting with his three feet up at this very minute in front of a giant plasma screen with surround sound and an infinity of channels practically all endlessly showing much the same sort of inane tosh, frankly (interspersed with directorate propaganda, naturally), but it keeps his mind off the coming trial and tribulation of his upcoming trial, which could result in an extremely severe punishment. Yes, if they find you guilty, they take your plasma screen away. Harsh, I know, and apparently contrary to something that you Earthlings call human rights, but those don't apply here, of course, as you might expect.
So how is the by-election thing coming along? I bet you thought I'd never ask. We have something a little similar, in which some screaming banshee or another is sent along by the central directorate to harangue us from time to time, wearing a bright red jacket or some such thing and a grimly determined expression on her face. (I believe they receive special training for that.) She then gets up on something akin to what you would probably describe as a soap-box and addresses a hastily assembled multitude, or at least half a dozen representatives of the planetary media, who are also sent along at the behest of the central directorate, making quite a little outing for them all.
Puffing herself up with steely determination to cling on to her practically unassailable position in the planetary hierarchy, she proceeds to proclaim in the shrillest tones imaginable, sending no end of passing moggies running whining into the nearest alleyways, that she is here to fight doggedly for us to maintain her in her position of unassailable privilege and comfort, somewhere in the elite quarter located on the south side of the densely populated zone. It is really quite a performance. So any odd Pimpletons that may happen to be about give her a round of applause before being dragged off by agents of the central directorate just in case they were being sarcastic. Anyway, I hope it all goes well for you and, as the sprog says, may the best man win.
On the subject of the sprog, he has put together a collection of his various ramblings on the planet Earth and is threatening to add some more. I guess that'll be when they take his plasma screen away. You have been warned. Toodloothenoo.
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Brian,
Is the by-election really a case of "no news is good news"?
Surely someone must be putting his or her foot in it somewhere even if it's only the unlamented Mr McConnell?
In Waugh's immortal words from "Scoop", please CABLE FULLIER OFTENER PROMPTLIER
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Did anybody see the Daily Politics this lunchtime?
It made me so angry to hear Andrew Neill's comment on today's programme when, remarking on his lack of knowledge as to whether or not viewers in Scotland see his programme, he wondered if instead of his 'Daily Politics', Scottish viewers watched 'the numpty nursery'. I took that to be a cheap and totally insulting remark about the Scottish Parliament.
I e.mailed the programme to complain
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News has been scarce of these minor matters as our entire island's attention has been riveted in admiration at our Supreme Leader's visit to a really faraway island to attend a pre-retirement meeting with lesser leaders from other not quite so faraway places such as America and France. He is now heading back to our shores and the excitement can barely be contained.
It is even rumoured that he may hearten the populous in their quest to select the correct banshee by visiting the sleepy hamlet of Baillieston. Weight was added to this theory by the following text from a crumpled handbill found on the steps of St. Jude's:
Comrades: The Baillieston Soviet have spontaneously and unanimously ordered that in preparation for a spontaneous visit, all past use-by date tomatoes, eggs and bilberries are to be seized from the fridges of the enemies of the people. These items of patriotic hue are to be spontaneously presented to The Supreme Leader in the traditional way as a token of our belief in his stirring address to the nation on the perils of wasting scraps. Any revisionists who have no scraps to present will be arraigned before the people's court.
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Re #300 raisethegame
Yes. I saw it and found it a bit odd. I wouldn't hold your breath for a reply - it's not a BBC thing these days.
It's possibly all part of the new BBC scheme to be nicer to NuLabour, after they just 'happened' to make no fuss at all about the BBC execs' bonuses.
Right now, I'm sure No.10 would prefer the BBC to have no by-election coverage at all and there certainly isn't a lot.
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raisethegame #300
I was watching the Daily Politics but switched it off in digust after seeing two reports:
1. Burglars should not be sent to jail but should get community service.
2. People who claim benefits should not be paid unless they do community service.
In other words. people on benefits should be treated no better than burglars.
And they wonder why the man in the street gets angry.
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# 63 Very well, I'll amend 'I think' to 'I know'. From bitter experience, I might add.
Your final paragraph, though a valiant attempt at eloquent disappointment, doesn't make sense. My council? What have they to do with anything, even though they are a Labour-run council. And what is 'gifting dictatorship'?
You think you know who I vote for, but you don't, and that is quite obvious.
But I will not vote SNP. The Alex Salmond's Ego Party. If he really is the best Scotland has to offer, then God help Scotland!
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#300 - I complained recently about a comment Andrew Neill made on the politics show about Scotland. The reply I got was 'he's Scottish so take it as a joke'.
I would expect something similar about yours.
As for the stats on Jack McConnell - last surgery in September? So he hasn't done his job in almost a year? This should be getting picked up on by the media as that is another poor area not getting the representation it deserves and needs.
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Man of [nearly] 54, where are you?
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Re #305 stubbzysnp
Conerning #300 you're probably right. Could Neil be one of the ones getting the bonuses?
Re McConnell, this is exactly the sort of thing you'd hope the local media would be banging on about and setting the pace doing the digging, but it doesn't seem to be the BBC Scotland way. But to be fair, I can't find anything much on the scottish press sites either.
Yesterday's "McConnell takes on charity role" does actually state "It comes just over two weeks after MPs urged the former teacher to quit as an MSP before taking up his position for British High Commissioner to Malawi". Could they have made the same MP/MSP slip of the finger as I dear near the end of my #296? I somehow doubt it was the NuLabour politburo yearning for an early SP by-election!
See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7497355.stm
The featured quote from Mr McC is "This is an honour, and I hope I can help make a real difference to many young lives in this new role". We can only presume he feels that doing that in Motherwell and Wishaw is now a lost cause but a little odd that he won't give somebody else a go at it.
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C'mon Brian, where's the by-election news?
I can't find anything very new today in the Scottish Poliitics setion of the website, and we could certainly do with some more analysis from you here.
All the main Scottish press websites and even some of the London ones have the Curran TV debate challenge, her wooliness on the "2 jobs" issue and her continuation of Wendy's "bring it on" attitude to the referendum. Some meat on the bones to chew on, surely?
If the BBC aren't trying to organise the debate give us clue who might be? What's Mason's attitude?
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PS to my #308
From the Herald website:
Moments after being selected last night, Ms Curran challenged SNP candidate John Mason to a live TV debate, a challenge he today accepted saying: "Absolutely - I would debate with Margaret every single day if she would like to."
From the Scotsman website:
But The Scotsman has since learned the two already knew that the BBC was organising a debate between the four candidates from the main parties on Sunday's Politics Show at 1pm."
From the stv.tv: zilch
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I have this image in my mind of a wee man in his "see you Jimmy" wig jumping between his TV and his computer, getting more and more outraged, as he searches programmes and websites for slurs and slights, real or imagined. He then vents his spleen here, before firing off an email to the BBC.
If that fits you - and you know who you are - don't take it toooooo personally, it's definitely a composite character.
Someone on television (let's make that the BBC just for added fun) should do a spoof Points of View programme, with Scottish actors speaking all the Oor Willie and Broons voices. Just reading out selected Brian's Blog posts.
So c'mon Brian - wind them up with a spoof of your own!
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#308 Brownedov - re Wendy's attitude to referendum:
Following publication of the completely damning official report into her campaign donations it's not so much "bring it on" as "take it back off again".
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#262 "Did nobody see Paxo stuffing Salmond on Newsnight, Monday? It was Michael Howard all over again: the same question repeated, the same evasive non-answer half a dozen times."
Paxman was an embarrassment on that evening, lazily resorting to his most tired trick and doing BOTH sides of the debate a disservice.
If you're an SNP fan, it was a ridiculous and pointless question, repeatedly demanding an empty promise that NO leader of ANY minority government could EVER make, and wasting most of the interview on doing so.
If you're on the Labour side, he let Salmond get away without defending any of the policies that the SNP have already ditched, before the opposition could even oppose them, eg the £2000 for first-time buyers.
It was an absolutely pathetic showing from the Beeb's most famous political attack dog. He ought to spend some time watching Gordon Brewer on Newsnight Scotland if he wants to re-learn how to really put a politician on the spot.
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#310, Brigadier,
I know your tongue is somewhere near your cheek, but maybe you should try harder not to stereotype. maybe we all should. I'm sitting here in jeans and t-shirt, and my 'see you Jimmy' wigs are all safely in the cupboard at home. It's worth remembering that most of the bloggers here are just ordinary loons and quines with ordinary concerns. just because we feel moved to voice our opinions on occasion doesn't make us activists or revolutionaries.
I had a go at reading selected Brian's Blog posts- I clicked on your name and read (and read, and read...) I couldn't quite put a spoof voice to them, though for some reason an image of Kenny Everett as 'Angry from Mayfair' just popped in to my head ;)
You can tell I'm bored waiting for Brian to update his blog, can't you?
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Re #311 bighullabaloo
Point taken re Wendy, but I've yet to see a report that Maggie's changed her mind. Could that be why she was 5th choice?
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Given Margaret Curran's blattent lie about her living in the East end all her life, David Marshall's £500,000 expenses investigation and now the damming report just out regarding Wendy Alexanders knowledge about her illegal donations - Does anyone know any Labour politician who is not a liar or on the take.
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Where's Brian when you need a fresh thread?
So after all that squirming and shouting about poor wee Wendy being the victim of an SNP stitch up, we now know that the clerks told her from the outset that the donations should have been registered and that she wasn’t acting in good faith on the basis of dodgy advice. “Ah no” cry her ever dwindling band of supporters, we still have the email saying no declaration needs to be made in the “circumstances”, ie; that the donations weren’t made to her personally.
In reality it hardly takes the brains of an archbishop, let alone anybody but the faithful, to read between the lines and see what really happened:
Wendy suddenly realises (prompted or otherwise) that the donations have to be registered as per the rules which her very own party wrote.
Ooops…
Seeks advice from the clerks, who solemnly shake their heads and tell her that like other mortals she must indeed declare.
But alas Wee Wendy is out of time. Does she register anyway and admit to inadvertence, or does she try to conceal the lapse?
Go back to the clerks and say; “Ah but the gift wisnae made to me, do I still have to register and get shouted at for being out of time?”
Only at this point, just a touch late in the day do the clerks mistakenly let her off the hook… until somebody on the inside shops her.
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Hi rerr, chinas! You see how my vocabulary grows. Soon I may be almost fluid; sorry, fluent, while the sprog vegetates in front of that giant plasma screen of his in the incarceration unit deep in the bowels of the central directorate for the prevention of interference in the affairs of primitive cultures (no offence intended).
You will no doubt be on tenterhooks, whatever they may be, to find out how he is getting on in the predicament in which he finds himself, subject as he is to charges brought against him by the chief accuser of the planet Pimple as a result of what the sprog describes as a misunderstanding of a misunderstanding conceived within the context of an experimental interstellar exploration of a mystery wrapped up in an enigma, which is the sprog's way of referring to the perversely masochistic voting habits of the electorate of Glasgow East, the by-election at which he has become morbidly obsessed with. I don't see what all the fuss is about myself. If a bunch of primitive aliens can't see which side their bread is buttered on, that's their hard cheddar, I say, but the sprog takes a more charitable view, which is why he is languishing in the choky now.
Fortunately, the defensor which the directorate has helpfully appointed to defend him against itself has prevailed upon the examining magistrate to hold a preliminary hearing. This judicial official, who is also appointed by the directorate, as you will not be surprised to learn, is, of course, to be regarded as wholly impartial, if one knows what is good for one. At this hearing, which was held in camera in the interests of justice and hushing things up, the honourable jurist made a preliminary ruling, which in a case of this nature seems unduly hasty, as the directorate's accusing agent hastily submitted after swiftly calculating the potential impact of this development upon his fee.
Nevertheless, the magistrate has decreed, and here is the nub of the matter, that the charge brought by the directorate can be considered to be valid and thus admissible only if shown to be fully applicable in this case. To wit, as you Earthlings are always saying, it has to be shown that the obscure and distant planet of which we know little and in the affairs of which the accused Pimpleton is alleged to have interfered can properly be described as primitive in accordance with recognized criteria laid down by the directorate for this purpose and ratified by the courts. Although on the face of it there would appear to be little doubt about the matter (no offence intended), the stark-staring obvious is, fortunately for the sprog, not stark-staring obvious to lawyers upon any planet in the known universe. Take my word for it. So the upshot is that a formal test is to settle the question of the degree of primitiveness of your insignificant little planet.
Having made this jurisprudentially upright but less than wholly practical determination, the magistrate, finding that he had developed something of an appetite, thereupon adjourned the court for lunch at the Dog and Duck across the road (or rather its Pimploid equivalent) so as to ruminate upon what might constitute a suitable test in this case. Should he cause a resident of Glasgow East, where all the trouble started, to be abducted at random by a Pimploid special operations team to be beamed back to the court here to be subjected to an IQ test? Would the results be valid? Would anything be measured? Would the magistrate conceivably find himself being arrested and charged with the same offence as the sprog? What to do? What to do? Suddenly, a solution presented itself, one which has, as one might say, the elegant simplicity of all truly bright ideas hatched over lunch with the assistance of a really good bottle of claret, or rather its Pimploid equivalent.
The solution arrived at, improbable though it may seem, concerns the by-election that you are all focused on right now, as a matter of fact. How is that going, by the way? The last thing we heard was something about some kind of embarrassingly loud report and that the gloves had come off, whatever that may mean precisely. We had not realized that physical violence would be involved. Even our screaming banshees do not resort to violence in defence of their perquisites within the planetary hierarchy. This revelation concerning what we presume to be boxing gloves does not bode well for the planet Earth's primitiveness rating or the sprog's chances of getting out of the choky any time soon, as what has been decided is to wait for the result of your election. If the electorate shows that it has the sense to know what is in its own best interests by voting out the party responsible for its troubles, the planet will be deemed to be more advanced than we had suspected, and the sprog will go free. If, on the other hand, the seat is held by Labour, the sprog stays in the choky and they take his plasma screen away. Needless to say, I shall be following the campaign even more closely from now on, as soon as I can find someone to explain a bit more about your internit, as I think you call it. Highly appropriate, I'd say, although I shouldn't. Toodloothenoo.
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Yo brian
wassup?
tell us whats the goss in glasgow east.
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# 312 - I'm sure Newsnight Scotland's "Herr von Smallhausen" will be delighted with your compliment!
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Re #312 Rev_S_Campbell
Agreed, but Paxo doesn't always pick his topics well when he goes for the jugular, as others have said above.
It's more surprising they're not getting their teeth into this by-election just yet.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/fromthewebteam/2008/07/prospects_for_thursday_10_july.html has what they're covering today.
Good standard fare, but this by-election really could set the tone for the fag-end of Brown's premiership. They're doing none of their viewers a favour by not sticking with it.
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Hey, where is Brian, is he afraid to come out and discuss what is realy going on with all these Labour resignations. We have had enough people telling us what is going on, so it is out in the open or will be before long.
Come on Brian we are waiting to hear what you have to say
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Richard the Rogue: It's all done in the best paaaaaw-ssible taste! More Richard Wilson than Kenny Everett, I think. But, tae see oorselves....
Stereotypes? Mmmmm... I'm thinking of people who can't have a laugh when the politics gets too petty. A laugh at themselves. (Now someone - laugh-a-minute Tammy from Tombstone perhaps - will "get tore intae me" to advise that the future of our great and glorious nation is no joking matter). These people are beyond caricature.
Anyway, I'm bored with this too. Three hundred and twenty posts and only two opinions - "we're right" and "naw, yer wrang!"
Greetings earthlings: What colour is the sky on your home planet? You've taken it too far. Not funny. ET, go home.
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Is Maggie serious or is the BBC Scotland Politics site having us on with:
Speaking on the campaign trail, Ms Curran said she wanted to invite Chancellor Alistair Darling to the constituency.
"I think I would invite to chancellor to come and meet some of the people I've met to hear face to face some of the issues people are facing.
Sending Darling in Brown's stead would not only incite residents to greet him in the time-honoured way with rotting eggs and fruit but make his master cowering in the No.10 bunker look even more "frit", to borrow a phrase from another Maggie.
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Re #322 brigadierjohn
Greetings earthlings: What colour is the sky on your home planet? You've taken it too far. Not funny. ET, go home
Au contraire, if you'll pardon my French.
Greetings earthlings' jottings are one of the few reasons to return to this site, at least for so long as Brian contirnues to be AWOL.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I'm starting to get a bit worried about Brian.
If he's going away, he usually tells us - cf. his recent trip to Germany - but it's not far off a week since his last posting.
And, surely, no-one would suggest the past week has been without incident on the Scottish politics scene.
Or is he unable to focus on his computer screen for the tears of laughter welling up in his eyes every time he tries to contribute something regarding the meltdown that is Scottish Labour?
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brigadierjohn - here's a topic we'd all like to hear your opinion on:
Today we learn that Wendy Alexander was told by a Holyrood official that donations to her Scottish Labour leadership campaign should be declared.
Wendy now says she was advised by other officials later on the same day that she didn't need to register the same donations.
My question to you is: why did she fail to mention at any point that she was in fact the recipient of two sets of advice?
That should ease your boredom for a wee while.
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Re #326 cousteau669
Wicked, but droll.
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Re #327 bighullabaloo
Now that's plain cruel.
To the point and amusing, but cruel nonetheless.
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Is that the end of 'Wendy-gate,' then?
Or is there still some deep, dark secret waiting to be revealed close to polling day in Glasgow East to scupper Labour chances once and for all?
Over and above, that is, the fact that PM Gordon Brown likens himself to a wife-beating kidnapper and murderer with a necrophiliac tendency (the last implied rather than explicitly stated for the sake of Victorian sensibilities).
Why would anyone think Wuthering Heights' Heathcliff was an admirable metaphor of his own life; or has no-one told the PM that the somewhat sanitised filmic renderings of the tale are based on a more earthy written work?
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Does anyone else detect a definite change in the tone of poltical stories on the BBC and elsewhere in the Scottish media over the last few days?
For example, not that long ago the BBC would have totally ignored the revealing and damaging new twist in the Wendy Alexander donations story.
Blog posters on other Scottish news websites are all commenting on a slight but nevertheless perceptible difference in journalistic policy.
And what about this unexplained absence of the BBC's political editor on this blog?
You really start to wonder if there isn't something different happening behind the scenes.
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Bighullaballoo: #327: Your faith in me is touching. Why on earth do you think I would be privy to Wendy Alexander's affairs. But here goes. She's a politician, a Labour politician. I despise them all for their self-seeking arrogance and failure to serve the people they purport to represent. In all matters financial I suspect their motives and their methods. I don't think there's criminal intent in most cases, they just never think they'll be held to account because they've always done it that way. If she received two opinions, I expect she chose the favourable one and concealed the other to avoid (she hoped) scandal.
I don't know what else you expect me to say. Do you think I'm a Labour supporter? I'm sorry if I'm missing your point, which seems to amuse Brownedov as well. But I genuinely don't know why you think my response is relevant to anything previous.
Quite revealing, however, your use of the phrase "We'd all like to hear."
Brownedov: My disallowed post #325, was written in French, which is a no-no, apparently. It said: "It doesn't matter." Followed by a bit of schoolboy nonsense, in which meaningless "French" words, when spoken, sound like "Paddle your own canoe."
Maybe you can explain for me your obvious excitement and delight at Big H's point?
I'm still bored.
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Somebody at the BBC want to explain what is going on?
Where is Brian, has he been sacked, kidnapped by aliens, or is he in hiding trying to figue out how to 'spin' the latest Wendy Alexander reveleations?
Why is the BBC news web site not covering the story, after all there was a brief report on Reporting Scotland and this site usually presents the same slavish agenda.
This smells... of what you can make your own mind up about.
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#332 brigadierjohn
I'm not expecting you to be "privy to Wendy Alexander's affairs". I was hoping to hear your take on the facts as they've been published here and elsewhere.
However, since I posted I went back and checked. On this occasion I got the facts wrong myself.
At the time, the BBC quoted Wendy Alexander explaining she asked for and received two sets of advice. It's not a new fact that has just come to light with publication of the official report.
She said at the time she was initially told by the official that she needed to register the donations but later the same day the exact opposite advice was given by the same official.
So what I am now finding extremely difficult to explain is why the BBC is reporting it as if it were a major new revelation.
Strange days indeed.
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Is there any provision for having an early Holyrood election?
If the SNP, Tories and LibDems ganged up to force a public vote, such is the level of disarray within (Scottish) Labour ranks, the Red Rose Rabble could probably fit in the proverbial taxi oft-mooted as the transport of choice for the Liberal Parliamentary Party in the 1970s.
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Re #331 bighullabaloo
Absolutely. BBC exec's bonuses, perhaps?
Even 'normal' coverage of Wendy & Maggie is being shuffled into less 'visible' spots on the website.
Brian is obviously being politically re-oriented in a gulag beneath the catacombs of Downing Street. Expect him to re-appear soon fully armed with the latest NuLabour slogans.
Also, still no mention of the promised debate. Could someone have been cornering the market in ear-plugs preparatory to making a 'killing' when the date of the Maggie vs John shouting match is fixed?
Wasn't it Kissinger who said "even paranoids have enemies"? Either that or cousteau669's #326 was right and he's helpless with mirth at both the speed and consummate skill with which NuLabour are digging fresh holes for themselves.
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Big H: I accepted your version as detailed and gave what I supposed was the explanation. I think anyone else looking at it would reach the same conclusion. But I'm still mystified as to why you thought I, in particular, might be nonplussed by your question. And why Brownedov thought it was "cruel" and "amusing" of you to ask it of me.
Am I now expected to explain the BBC's position on this issue? I won't consider it cruel if you ask me, but I can say I don't know in advance of the question. But Brian's absence does seem strange, as this blog has been done to death.
Don't be upset at getting the facts wrong. I made a terrible howler on a previous blog. We are all human. Even Wendy.
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Re #330 cousteau669
"Why would anyone think Wuthering Heights' Heathcliff was an admirable metaphor of his own life; or has no-one told the PM that the somewhat sanitised filmic renderings of the tale are based on a more earthy written work?"
Dunno, but it's certainly taught me a little caution. Only the other day I was comparing the man to the late Yasser (never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity) Arafat and he comes out with something that the even late Mr A would have thought twice before gabbing.
Note to me: find more apposite metaphors
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Re #332 brigadierjohn
Sorry if I and others have misjudged you but perhaps your previous posts in the vein of Richard Wilson's Meldrew didn't find me in the spirit it left you.
Comedy is clearly a matter of personal taste but surely we can agree that the pig's breakfast being made of things by the NuLabour supremos is such that you have to laugh or cry. I find it sad but always try to put on my clown's grin.
Re foreign words, you should read the House Rules. The mods will usually let you get away with two or three, especially a well-known phrase, but more and they'll start to zap them.
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Re #337 brigadierjohn
It's the way you tell 'em.
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#337 - brigadierjohn
Oh don't worry, I think we all know Wendy Alexander is human. Clearly she exhibits the same human failings we all share in sometimes making big mistakes.
What I and others objected to was her arrogant refusal to admit them.
That and the absurd attempts by our media to shore up that posture by trying to portray her as some sort of political super-intellect.
I don't expect you to have any idea about the BBC's news policy. It wouldn't be surprise me in the slightest if they had no idea of it themselves right now.
There are certainly a few tell-tale signs this might be the case.
A few weeks ago the BBC would not have carried a story so unflattering to Wendy Alexander.
Now we find them carrying stories that are not only unflattering but also based on old and previously published facts = no genuine news angle at all.
That sort of thing doesn't happen in news organisations for no reason.
Just as we could tell when the BBC was trying to stitch up Salmond with smear stories about wrongly influencing officials over the Trump affair, we are also capable of recognising smear stories against Alexander for what they are.
When she admits doing something wrong and isn't punished for it that is one thing.
When she is being pilloried for something she did explain at the time that is another.
I don't agree with biased news coverage full stop, no matter who it's against.
All people ask for is fair and balanced coverage, not the blatantly manipulated and reframed garbage we're being served up with these days.
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Has anyone else notice the following snippet from "By-election voters wield power"?
"The irony of one of the UK's poorest constituencies delivering a knockout blow to a PM with redistributionist instincts is not lost on the people of Glasgow East."
Would anyone care to explain how the word irony could possibly apply? For more than a year, Brown has been in denial that his '07 budget would hurt anyone and even now leaves it to the hapless Darling to admit more than a million will still be worse off as a result.
Redistributionist instincts? Well certainly - from the poor to the rich.
Irony? Hardly as what should he expect from one of the poorest constituencies in the UK who will include some of that million.
If for no other reason, Glasgow East should reject Maggie for that very reason.
What surprises me is that all of the other candidates are not banging on about it night and day. Brown's other banana skins will all affect at least a few in Glasgow East, but this is a kick in the groin of his "core vote" and should be used against his every waking moment.
See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7497293.stm
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Brownedov:You have not misjudged me. I am indeed a cynical, sceptical, pragmatic unionist who despises politicians and their cheerleaders.
I've now read the house rules. I accept them. I could have launched into a string of obscenities or libelous comments in a foreign language. It's bad enough with the Nats on my back, never mind the French and Italians.
As to general comments and whinges about the media, there are rules of balance and equal time during election periods, which are a bit frayed nowadays with references like "you can see it all on our website." But the media, newspapers in particular, have no obligation, legal or moral, to be neutral or even-handed. I would not accept an antiseptic Press. Everyone is biased, so live with it, deal with it.
Re Paxman: He doesn't care if Salmond turns down an interview invitation. It's Salmond's job to assess the risk. Paxman is there to be destroyed on air, but Salmond failed to land a blow. From a politician's perspective, it's a feather in your cap to be invited on to the show (it is a show, remember), but go at your peril, and be prepared.
As regards comedy, I refer you to my first paragraph. They are all laughable, especially those who believe them. Which is a sort of tragedy.
Glasgow East will come and go, nobody's life will change. Only the activists, the conspiracy theorists, the nitpickers want to argue about it. Someone will be elected.... and forgotten.
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332 If your going to write in any other language on this site then make it scots gaelic they cant block that. its a breach of your human rights being scottish and that. you could take them to the european court for it.
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#304
Lord Aston said "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely"
Any politician that knows his constituency will vote regularly for them is powerful.
A politician who knows his/her constituency will vote for them all the time irrespective of their actions is aproaching absolute power.
That my dear student is the power of democracy. Though it relies on voters exercising their brains and voting against their "chosen one" if necessary, this way we keep our beloved politicians as servants and not dictators.
That is what I meant by gifting dictatorship - never changing your vote. If we all did this we would acquire not servant politicians but dictators.
"council of despair" is an idiomatic expression meaning advising the most desperate course of action - it has nothing to do with the mechanism of local government!
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#343 brigadierjohn
"the media, newspapers in particular, have no obligation, legal or moral, to be neutral or even-handed."
If you are talking about commercial media I agree with you 100%.
But where a media organisation is funded through a virtually compulsory tax on the public as in the case of the BBC we can and indeed should demand total political neutrality and even-handedness.
Despite a journalistic code of practice that champions fair and balance reporting, what we get from the BBC is successive governments of all hues using and abusing it for its own grubby purposes.
If we allow such creeping influence to continue unchallenged we're going to end up with the Ministry of Truth. Some people would say we're practically there at the moment.
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council should of course read counsel
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Dear Brian,
I trust all is well with you. In June you were blogging 4/5 times a week but for 6 days now, nothing, not even a postcard.
Or have you been abducted at random by the Pimploid special operations team that the mysterious ET writes about?
Please write, we miss you.
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Or worse, Brian,
are you ET?
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Yes, Brian. Missing my online by-election fix.
I might be forced to leave my Springburn bunker and chance the natural sunlight of Shettleston and Easterhouse myself. See what's going on.
Help..!
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332 about that typing in gaelic see here
http://assembly.coe.int//Main.asp?link=http://assembly.coe.int/Documents/AdoptedText/TA93/EREC1201.HTM
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332 read this bit it applies to scots gaelic.
Article 1
For the purposes of this Convention[2], the expression ‘‘national minority'' refers to a group of persons in a state who :
reside on the territory of that state and are citizens thereof ;
maintain longstanding, firm and lasting ties with that state ;
display distinctive ethnic, cultural, religious or linguistic characteristics ;
are sufficiently representative, although smaller in number than the rest of the population of that state or of a region of that state ;
are motivated by a concern to preserve together that which constitutes their common identity, including their culture, their traditions, their religion or their language.
Section 2 — General principles
Article 2
Membership of a national minority shall be a matter of free personal choice.
No disadvantage shall result from the choice or the renunciation of such membership.
Article 3
Every person belonging to a national minority shall have the right to express, preserve and develop in complete freedom his/her religious, ethnic, linguistic and/or cultural identity, without being subjected to any attempt at assimilation against his/her will.
Every person belonging to a national minority may exercise his/her rights and enjoy them individually or in association with others.
Article 4
All persons belonging to a national minority shall be equal before the law. Any discrimination based on membership of a national minority shall be prohibited.
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so anyway bbc feumaidh mi falbh.
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Re #343 brigadierjohn
OK.
If by "unionist" you wish a return to direct rule from Westminster, I'm against you 100%.
OTOH, if you mean a democratic federation of 4 states gaining some economies of scale within the current boundaries of the UK, I'm with you 100%.
The English Tories will probably have the future of the union in their hands after the next general election. Continue as they're going and they'll likely ensure the referendum goes the way of the SNP and end the union. Come up with sensible plans for a constitution and they can choose to save it.
If you're interested in my views, read my #202.
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Andrew Neill for me is the exact type of person that represents the 'Scottish cringe' He'll do anything for acceptance, so belittle's his own countryfolk and indeed country as a whole so that his English counterparts will accept him.
Things are bad enough without our own country people working against us, Brown and the 'Scottish Mafia' in Westminster are shining examples of such.
Ive nothing against Unionists, in theory it could work, but the simple fact is it isn't working, time for a change.
If people don't like it why don't the 'cringeists' move to England where they will be better off, apparently Scotland won't cope so there's the solution.
That's what I was told when I lived in England, "if you can't take being called a sweaty sock or take any kind of joke why don't you go back where you came from", now i'm not trying to spark a racism argument or anything, i'm merely pointing out how Scots change for acceptance, if Curran gets in which I suspect she will with a rather reduced majority, lets see what she does for East Glasgow.
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PS i meant Margaret Curran not the other 'socialist' Curran.
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A story appeared on the BBC Scotland news page of this website that was extremely unflattering to a Unionist politician who was formerly lionised.
Posts that point out uncomfortable truths about the Unionist case that have been consistently blocked are now being allowed through.
Something afoot.
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Not likely. As I said, it's like right-wing Americans complaining about the 'liberal media'. It says more about your propensity for selective thinking than anything else.
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Anaxim - yes, maybe I'm imagining it.
Or maybe Brian Taylor hasn't been around for nearly a week.
I don't think I'm imagining that, but if I am I'm sure you'll let me know.
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Big H: I agree a little bit about the BBC. But you would switch off very quickly if every political statement or position were to be challenged. If, for example, AS was reported as making a strong call for independence now, it would be ridiculous if the spokesmen for all the other parties had to pop up and say "We disagree." By all means give people access, but sometimes you just have to say "Well, he would say that," and live with it. Take it to nonsensical lengths, and you might have a report saying "Doctors are denying people treatment...." and have to give time to all the doctors who are not.
It has to be an editorial judgement on the day. We can all question it. The best time to question it, open-mindedly, is when someone you're opposed to fails to get a fair hearing. Whingeing when your own man loses out, is just that.
Brownedov: I'm happier with federation than I am with independence, but reasonably comfortable with the devolved arrangements, despite the flaws. If it's a straight choice between independence and direct rule, as you call it, then I lean towards Westminster. But not necessarily for ever and ever. Nobody's making a great case for either extreme, it seems to me anyway. Your #202 is very lucid and fair.
Karinm: When the Gaels come on, I regret ever using the word "language" in a post. I respect your human right to exclude 99.5% of Scots from your conversations in Gaelic, but the fact is more Scots would understand my faltering French and Italian than your Gaelic. I'm sure there's wonderful resonance and poetry in Swahili, but I leave that to the East Africans. I leave Gaelic to the Gaels, and may they all live long and enjoy it.
I read this deeply philosophical thought the other day: What if the Hokey Cokey really is what it's all about?
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North, south, east or west?
Maggie Curran, here's a test:
Lest you cause another rumpus,
Re-align your moral compass.
When auld Saint Nick fulfills his role,
Does he start at the east pole?
At daybreak, when the sun sails forth,
Does it do so from the north?
"A turn o' phrase, a figure o' speech",
Dissembles Maggie, wi' a screech.
"Yer criticism is but a joke,
Truth be told, ah jist misspoke!"
"Ah love yon plebs o'er in the east,
Ah'll fight for jobs!" (aye, one at least!
For 50 years they've missed the boat,
But "Labour's best, gie's yer vote!")
And Maggie, weren't you on at Eck?
For holding two jobs, what brass neck!
(As did departed, sainted Dewar.
Raise your game Maggie, out the sewer!)
"But ah'm first choice!" Maggie's cryin',
(Just don't mention Georgie Ryan!
What? Who he? It's all forgotten,
Even Labour's memory is rotten.)
On balance Maggie, best be mute,
Your hypocrisy will ne'er compute.
Think Maggie, ere you open your mouth,
East is east and south is south!
[With due acknowledgement to the inspirational William Topaz McGonagall. And Brian, if you're not blogging again soon there'll be more of the same...! Please spare us all that grisly fate!]
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#360 brigadierjohn -
No one - and certianly not me - has suggested that balance and even-handedness should be taken to the ridiculous lengths outlined in the examples you've given.
However that type strict impartiality is legally required during official elections - we all know that. We also know that during non-election periods sometimes a reporter can ask for a balancing comment and be refused. No problem with any of that.
However, something you do not appear to know is that the BBC does indeed have a LEGAL responsibility to report the news in an impartial fashion. This is an easily verifiable fact.
And, for the reasons I gave in #346 above, I would argue the BBC also has a clear MORAL obligation to report impartially.
The people who pay their wages through a compulsory tax hold widely differing political views and those views must be given equal prominence to the best of the BBC's ability.
In my view, they daily fail to achieve that balance in their coverage of Scottish politics or even come close.
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#360 - BrigadierJohn
On a note of pure pedantry, the 2001 status mentioned that '1.9 per cent of the population had some Gaelic language ability in 2001', so it would appear that karinm disenfranchised slightly few people thatn you claimed. Other than that though, I agree, more people would understand your poor French although, ironically, not me as, perversely, I'm one of those awkward people that speaks more Gaelic than French.
Anyway, that's all besides the point. Come back Brian, the efforts of keeping this blog going are beginning to tell on us all (even Thomas_Porter hasn't contributed for days).
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Poor old Andra Neill! He's part of the "entertainment wing" of the political media establishment, but nobody's laughing. John Prescott jokes are okay, but Jock Tamson... suddenly he's a traitor. Make that trrrraitorrrrr.
You know, the best Jewish jokes are told by Jews. Nobody takes the mickey out of Scots and Scotland more cruelly than Connelly, although new kid Frankie Boyle is getting there.
So are our political figures above lampooning? Or are we too selective about who's allowed to laugh at us?
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Fit_Like: Okay, but I'd say the extra 1.4% confine themselves to slainthe (or however you spell it) when downing a swift hauf.
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BigH: Nobody sues the BBC for bias, because impartiality - outwith election periods when party hacks stand with stopwatches - is hard to define, let alone prove. I won't list examples, because your imagination is as good as mine. But one man's bias is another's impartiality. (See Einstein: Relativity, the theory of).
As for moral duty, see the above, with knobs on.
I want to be conciliatory here, honestly. But I think we are both having difficulty trying to extrapolate the nuances of our emotions on a complex subject.
Anyway, that's clearly enough from me today.
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I'm sorry brigadierjohn, billy connolly and andrew neil having nothing in common in terms of joke telling.
However my point was not of the comedic qualities of Andrew Neil but the cras name calling he resorts to in order for English media approval.
The BBC proclaims to be impartial when all he's doing is turning a politics show into a tabloidesque news programme almost provoking reaction as he often did in The Scotsman and any other newspaper he's had dealings with.
Why should I pay a license fee for his wages?
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Re #360 brigadierjohn
Flattery will get you everywhere.
Re balance - point taken, but you must admit it's odd that nothing happened yesterday on the stump worth mentioning on the Scotland Politics section of this website. As I and others have pointed out, it's also odd that Brian has been silent since last Saturday, with not even a word about the final runners. I do hope he's OK.
Re Gaelic - the help does say "We reserve the right to fail messages which .... Are written in anything other than English - Welsh and Gaelic may be used where marked", but it's a bit tucked away. Can't say I know what they mean by "marked".
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Re #361 forfar-loon
Pure magic! Thank you for brightening at least one person's day.
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#365 - 'Heavy is the burden of ignorance'
Translated literally from a Gaelic proverb, but obviously if I had written it in Gaelic then you wouldn't have understood it because you are not even amongst this 1.4% that you say (expert as you are) only speak one word of Gaelic.
But not to descend into this argument - why have we not had another blog posting for so long? I do hope nothing bad has happened to Mr T.
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brigadierjohn #366 - I didn't suggest the BBC can or should be sued for not being impartial. I merely pointed out that you were 100% wrong in saying that media organisations don't have a legal obligation to be impartial. The BBC is proof that there are media organisations who do.
Instead of admitting you have made a mistake you try to make it look as if I have suggested the BBC be held to account for impartiality in the courts.
I'm not stupid enough to believe there would be any point in doing so. I still think it's the BBC should be held legally responsible and I still think they should live up to it and I will continue to believe that until I hear some sort of informed or reasoned argument that would make me think otherwise.
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Poor Brian.
He probably thought that arranging to take a break to coincide with the start of the [Scottish] Parliamentary summer recess would be little noticed. It'd be bound to be a quiet time, right?
Well, no.
Anyone know what is the record number of posts in reply to a single blog entry...? [Blether with Brian only, that is.]
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Having now familiarized myself with the intricacies of your internet, I feel that I know you all a little better now. I confess that there seems after all to be somewhat more to you than meets the Pimploid eye. Profuse apologies, incidentally, for the slight confusion earlier, resulting from a regrettable orthographical infelicity, which some have commended for hitting the nail on the head, whatever that may mean, but which was entirely unintended, on at least one of my several levels of Pimploid consciousness, the full majesty and magnitude of which are, I am given to understand, comparable among Earthlings only to that reputed to dwell within the cranium of that Wendy Alexander person whom you seem not to have appreciated very much and who apparently has something to do with that rather embarrassing report which I referred to yesterday. Evidently, your screaming banshees have more in common with our screaming banshees than I had hitherto suspected. My commiserations to you.
If I might return to the subject of the Daily Record thing for a moment, it has been pointed out to me that it is accessible on this internet, and, in the spirit of inquiry which has got the sprog into so much bother, I have ventured so far as to take a look at it for myself. Now I see why he turned green when the question of a lifelong supply of the thing was mentioned to him, green not being our natural coloration, you understand, contrary to what one perceives to be a popular misconception on your planet. Although the publication in question reminds me of a propaganda organ which the central directorate maintains in order to keep the less privileged elements of Pimploid society in their place, I am afraid that it has not got what it takes to fool anybody here and, like the boxing gloves which are said to have come off in the Glasgow East by-election, is not a favourable sign so far as the primitiveness rating of the planet Earth is concerned, not to mention the sprog's chances of being released from the incarceration unit of the central directorate for the prevention of interference in the affairs of primitive cultures (no offence intended).
On perusing various other sources of propaganda and/or information, as the case may be, I note that something known as an opinion poll reveals today that 49 per cent of the population of what is referred to as Scotland would prefer the candidate of something known as the SNP to win the Glasgow East by-election and that only 33 per cent want the Labour candidate to win. On hearing word of this, the sprog's spirits were revived somewhat and even more so when he learned that the same poll had revealed that 66 per cent of the population of this Scotland want it to become an independent member of something known as the European Union. This latter item opens up a whole new ball game for me, and I shall clearly need to question the sprog about it and surf the internit, sorry internet, further in search of enlightenment on the subject. Until then toodloothenoo.
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I was listening to 'The Who' on my day off today.
I'm a substitute for another guy
I look pretty tall but my heels are high...
(Reminded me of someone...)
I was born with a plastic spoon in my mouth
The north side of my town faced east, and the east was facing south...
(Aah, that explains your poor geography).
Substitute your lies for fact
I can see right through your plastic mac
Substitute you for my mum
At least I'll get my washing done
(Yeah, that about sums it up).
Glasgow East, don't get fooled again.
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Big H: I don't want to fall out over this, or stray into pedantry. So, I don't actually know if the BBC is legally required to be impartial, in the sense that it is against the Law, as decided by a judge, for it to be biased. I doubt it, but I'll accept an authorative contradiction with good grace. I suspect - only suspect, mind you - that The BBC Charter is what you have in mind. This, and it is only my own undertstanding, is issued by the Government and could be withdrawn for failure of the BBC to meet its obligations.
Of course the BBC would object, appeal, and go all the way to the Lords with it. And who would decide if the Government was impartial? Could a Tory Government revoke the BBC's charter if it was allegedly biased against them?
My humble and personal interpretation is that bias, in itself, is not a matter of legality. But if it came to revoking the Charter a judge would decide if the basis for revoking it, i.e. bias, was justified. But he would not decide about actual instances of bias. No producer or presenter would be on trial.
This is actually too complicated for me, which was my original point: it was not an attempt to wriggle out of admitting an error, or to invite anyone to sue the BBC.
It is simply impossible for the BBC, or anyone, to be "held legally responsible" except through the courts.
Two quick final points: We will never have public service broadcasting that pleases all the people all the time. Some would never please certain people at any time.
But look at SKY and ITV (differently licensed, I concede) and give thanks for the BBC.
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#375 brigadierjohn - you've done the same thing again: attempted to make it look as if I suggested there was a case for pursuing legal recourse against the BBC - which is patently absurd - whilst refusing to accept the simple truth that you made an error of fact. Except this time you're claiming you've accepted the "contradiction" with good grace, but then you've gone ahead to prove the exact opposite by rambling on about some hypothetical example of your own making that tries to justify your original erroneous statement.
In any case, it wasn't a "contradiction" it was a correction - of your erroneous statement - and it was intended to highlight your propensity for opening your mouth without putting your brain in gear which no doubt is abundantly clear to all reading it my post and those of others pointing out other errors you're making. I don't need to give thanks to the BBC - I'm paying them to fulfil a legal obligation to provide balanced, impartial news coverage.
As for ITV, etc, if I look at Scottish Television's homepage right now I see a lead story headline that reads: "Poll puts SNP ahead of Labour for Westminster general election". I can't find any mention of this story anywhere on the BBC website. Just one random example of the sort of omission that we see day in and day out from in the BBC's Scottish coverage. This sort of BBC news management may or may not be "provable" in a court but it's certainly starting us all in the face.
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Re #376 bighullabaloo
Thanks for the tip re stv.tv - quite a good and balanced report with video too.
It certainly points out how much better auntie could be doing. Obviously they had one outside broadcasting unit geared up for Davis, but surely they've got another they could use in Glasgow.
Even if not, they could have sent the Yorkshire unit to Glasgow with a relief driver. With STV talking about lots of weekend activity let's see if auntie can manage a week-end "on" rather than taking its usual political break on live political reporting.
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Poor Brian has vanished,or has he been taken by aliens as someone suggested. Anyway he's missing just as the candidates start following the yellow brick road towards the East End. Already the ugly witch of the half million pound house on the southside is waiting to turn them all into toadstools. A wee drop of oil might be needed on the stiff looking SNP candidate, the Lib /Dem man will need an alarm clock to wake him up, young socialist Curran needs to keep her slippers on and the Tory lady has been practicing her still game accent. God what an unappealing bunch of numpties they are.
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kaybraes #378 - how true, but then I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more.
We've got Brown down in Westminster bellowing: "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"
You couldn't make it up.
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Thanks to STV for reporting that the SNP are ahead not only in the Glasgow East by-election but for the first time in a Westminster opinion poll.
Pity the BBC decided to concentrate 10 mins on the golf and only giving a brief 10 seconds on the by-election with no mention on any opinion polls.
Is Kirsty Wark now directing Reporting Scotland? Or Andrew Neil?
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Boaby69 - your common sense is telling you it stinks, but we've always got people like Anaxim at #358 around to tell us that it's all down to our "propensity for selective thinking."
We're not supposed to be smart enough to be able to tell the difference between an accurate, balanced, and comprehensive news report like STV's Bernard Ponsonby provided today and a 10-second insult to the intelligence intended to keep everyone in the dark about what's really going on.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/jul/11/glasgoweast.byelections1
"A YouGov survey for the Daily Telegraph showed the SNP running at 33% to Labour's 29%, with the Tories on 20%, and the Lib Dems on 14%.
The survey also indicated that 49% of Scots wanted the nationalists to win in Glasgow East, while 33% wanted Labour to win. "
encore Bob Dylan c1964
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Re #382 cynicalHighlander
Yes, interesting times for sure.
In fact it's the same poll bighullabaloo reported in his #376
See
http://www.stv.tv/news/Poll_puts_SNP_ahead_of_Labour_for_Westm_080711141401405 for the story and a short video
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If the BBC was unbiased why would they put Alan Cochrane up as an unbiased commentator. He is the doyenne of the Unionist /Prostitute school of Scottish journalism. Yet it is obvious that he and Brian are old mates. Can we not get away from Cochrane's baseless and relentless whingeing and denigration of everyithing Scottish and set the independence debate on an adult footing? Cochrane - please set out your agrument for the Union in terms that can be discussed in an adult fashion. Brian, please try to retreive the Beeb's reputation for impartiality. Your coverage of Glasgow East this evening was a disgrace .
At present I feel that the extraction of my licence fee is simply theft.
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Okay, that Brian is on holiday I can accept, it's BBC Scotland holiday time I am told, but couldn't the Politics front page find something else to warrant a link in the Scotland section than a link to this post?
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"New row as Wendy Alexander's team is accused of donations cover-up."
Well now we know why Wendy resigned so swiftly. Nothing to do with the SNP, all to do with her and her "team" being "economical with the truth" So what now, re-run the investigation since they have been found out. Or, as I suspect they will be let away with it again. Would this information have made a difference to the PF when he looked at the case. Guess we will never know, but a lot more than Ms Alexander should be rethinking their position right now. As for the by-election, I hope the people of Glasgow East look at this and think to themselves, if they were in court and had done the same thing, what would have happened. They would have been charged with perjury. Politicions must be made to realise that they are not above the law. Time to take action!
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Tomorrow's London Times has the following snippet along with some local "colour"?
"After Labour's embarrassing defeat in Crewe & Nantwich and its chronic performance at Henley, Mr Brown's enemies predict that a Labour defeat in Glasgow East would carry such unbearable symbolic weight that the Prime Minister may be forced out.
That apocalyptic vision may be premature, ramped up by a Scottish press that is keen to give this by-election heavy national significance. A combination of tradition, apathy and a strong candidate in Margaret Curran, a Member of the Scottish Parliament, may yet see Labour cling on. But the mere fact that defeat is being contemplated is a sign of how much arteries have hardened in Labour's heartland."
Now why can't auntie bring herself to say something along those lines yet?
Anyone agree that Maggie's a "strong candidate"?
Not sure I'm happy at having Mr Murdoch as a fellow traveller, but as Churchill said: "If Hitler invaded Hell, I would at least make favourable references to the Devil in the House of Commons."
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Jayeduk, are you sure Brian's on holiday? I wonder if the LBC have attempted to silence our intrepid reporter but he has managed to resurface as Greetings_Earthlings to give us a report, as best he can on the happenings in Glasgow East.
Or has he been seen on the telly? I can't tell as this part of the USA doesn't get any decent BBC service (BBC America doesn't count as decent).
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Prompted by certain intriguing findings which came to my attention earlier today and as a result of extensive researches just concluded, I have now had an opportunity to become fully apprised of the constitutional background against which the Glasgow East by-election is being held. Consequently, its importance to the overlords of the governmental entity known as UK has become clearer to me.
Analysis of the available data reveals that the brouhaha which one is witnessing is explained not only by the manifest failure of the Labour Party to look after the interests of Glasgow East adequately over a very extended period of time but also by a dramatic loss of confidence in that party throughout UK-administered territory as well as a maturing controversy throughout the constitutional sub-unit known as Scotland concerning its status within the UK. This state of affairs is inevitably giving rise to understandable consternation among the overlords responsible for protecting the UK unit against dissident perturbations within the peripheral sub-units, upon which much of the wealth, power and influence of the principal unit evidently depend, although this salient fact is, naturally, routinely suppressed and withheld from the exploited populations in whose interests it would be to become fully enlightened upon the matter. Hence the pivotal role of media organs the output of which can be identified as favourable to the overlords and their supporters within the UK hierarchy, in which the Labour candidate at Glasgow East is evidently in some danger of losing her place.
Nevertheless, raw data is, of course, publicly available within the political system operating here and is clearly a problem for the established order, as something called a YouGov opinion poll indicated today. It showed that only 11 per cent of the Scottish population believe that Scotland should continue to be represented by the UK in the European Union, that 66 per cent believe Scotland should become an independent member of the EU, that 17 per cent believe Scotland should leave the EU and that 5 per cent have not got something known locally as a scoobie (much the same sort of proportion of don't knows and couldn't care lesses as one encounters throughout the known universe). This data in itself would appear to explain why the proportion of the Scottish population indicating that they would prefer the candidate of the pro-independence party known as SNP to win the Glasgow East by-election is as high as 49 per cent while the proportion indicating a preference for the pro-overlord party known as Labour is as low as 33 per cent.
Although other figures published in the same survey report also indicate that there is a not insignificant proportion of the Scottish population which has not yet come to terms with the fact that in order to be an independent member of the European Union (a supranational entity of some promise) Scotland would have to become an independent constitutional unit in its own right first, it can surely only be a matter of time before this confusion is resolved, provided that the pro-independence party can show itself to be equal to the challenge. It is, after all, as you Earthlings say, not rocket science. A victory in the Glasgow East by-election would clearly help in that regard, as well as improving the primitiveness rating of your planet and the personal circumstances of the sprog. Toodloothenoo.
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"New row as Wendy Alexander's team is accused of donations cover-up."
From the formerly supportive Daily Record:
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2008/07/11/new-row-as-wendy-alexander-s-team-is-accused-of-donations-cover-up-86908-20639276/
Labour's wheels have been wobbling, but this time they have fallen off altogether!
Given the incriminating nature of these new facts, one has to question why the Electoral Commission cannot reopen their investigation with a view to possible prosecution?
Clearly their original ruling of prosecution being "innappropriate" must be thrown into serious doubt by this report.
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As those of you who pay very close attention to what you are reading may just possibly have surmised, I seem to have crossed the line, as you Earthlings say, and to have made myself liable to arrest and detention on the very charges that were brought against the sprog. Finding that I could no more face the prospect of vegetating in front of a giant plasma screen in a cell deep in the bowels of the central directorate for the prevention of interference in the affairs of primitive cultures (no offence intended) than the sprog could deal with the threat of a lifetime's supply of the Daily Record, I have become a fugitive, with effect from yesterday, when, as hastily and surreptitiously as I could contrive at short notice, I came down to Earth with a bump in Glasgow East, and I do mean that.
So this is the backside of the planet Earth. I perceive that the sprog was not exaggerating. Those poor media representatives from south of what is known as Hadrian's Wall must think that they have landed in what must seem to them to be the very Third World toilet that they pray never to be sent to. And all the time there it was up in bonnie Scotland, as they say. What to make of that without seeming to make the case for the pro-independence party known as SNP? That political party must be thanking its lucky stars to have a by-election presented to it here by a party responsible for creating the very hell-hole that the poor unfortunate dupes are living in who have for generations formed one of the most loyal elements of its core support and the foundation of its power base. Some base, some foundation! Is there not some text in one of your ancient holy books in which the faithful are taught not to build their houses upon sand. Well, if what I see before me is the Labour Party's notion of what a firm foundation consists of, it is more deluded than those poor fools who believe in little green men from Mars. Everyone knows that Mars is a dead world, for pity's sake, one not unreminiscent of Glasgow East in some respects, although perhaps I should refrain from exaggeration in a place where no exaggeration is necessary to conjure up the misery and aimlessness of the existence of a population condemned to a short and empty life by the government of a state which clearly does not care about them and will forget about them again once the by-election is over if it is won by Labour.
Now I really am in trouble, but, as you Earthlings say in this neck of the woods, facts are chiels that winna ding. Toodloothenoo.
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And now it appears that even extra-terrestrials are supporting the SNP. Not sure how much these posts are supporting the argument either way, though.
On a more serious note, having read the latest webpage by the BBC on the matter, it would appear that the SNP are confining themselves to attacking Brown, the Tories are attacking Labour more generally, Labour are talking about 'unfair power companies' for some bizarre reason (in that these are the companies they regulate and deal with), while the Lib Dems are talking about regeneration and renewal. I'm not a voter in Glasgow East, but if I were, I would undoubtedly prefer what the Lib Dems are saying as opposed to anyone else. I think the general populace will be unreceptive to personal attacks (SNP), blaming the government in general (Tories) or blaming others for problems (Labour). But sitting down and saying 'I understand these problems, and here is my strategy for fixing them' (Lib Dem) that has to be the best strategy.
As I say, I'm not a voter in this forthcoming election, I'm just trying to put across what I would like to hear from a politician. I am also not questioning the veracity of the BBC account - I think the BBC do an excellent coverage of all the news, and while individual examples of a news story not getting as much attention as blogger X thinks it ought to are easy to find, in general it is very good.
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Here's how one major bookmaker rates the chances of each party winning the Glasgow East by-election:
LABOUR 50.5%
SNP 47.5%
LIB-DEMS 1.0%
CONS 0.5%
OTHERS 0.5%
TOTAL 100%
What's interesting about this is how closely the bookies rate Labour and the SNP given the enormous Labour majority of 13,507 at the 2005 General Election.
If these probabilities are anywhere close to the truth:
1. The Labour majority will be decimated.
2. A large number of Labour voters will send Gordon Brown a warning message by not voting at all.
3. If Labour protest votes combine with complacent Labour non-voters we may just see the political earthquake Alex Salmond has been predicting.
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Re #392 Eoin_og
A lot of what you say is fair and balanced, as I'd expect from somebody considering voting LibDem. I'm not Glasgow East voter, either, but was I one, the "one X in a box" that passes for a voting system would make me vote SNP in this particular contest as the most likely way of giving NuLabour the kicking they so richly deserve.
I'd even agree with you that by and large BBC coverage of news in general is pretty fair and balanced, if rather inclined to whatever it thinks the establishment view is.
This time, though, they're getting it wrong - apparently simply by not devoting enough resources to it. When even the London press cover the bones of the YouGov survey headlined by STV last night, there's still no mention on the BBC website. This by-election could have lasting ramifications throughout the UK yet is getting less BBC coverage than Davis did.
Yes, they have produced one web page now linked to from the main Politics section with some quotes from today - whoopee! But they're hardly treating it as national news.
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Re #393 bighullabaloo
Thanks for the update.
My fingers are crossed that you're bookie's right and that Maggie will seek out at least one new banana skin to help the SNP over the line.
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As I am a stranger in these parts and in the interests of balance, having consulted all available pertinent records to examine in exhaustive detail the character and distribution of executive, legislative and fiscal responsibilities in the various layers of government in the UK constitutional unit and the history of their functioning with special reference to the Scotland sub-unit and within that the conurbation constituting the former industrial dynamo of Glasgow, where an historically pivotal by-election is currently taking place, and having considered which political parties have been in government and the duration of their tenures at all of these levels over the past half century, I have endeavoured in vain to establish any conceivably credible grounds for considering the Labour Party, the governing party of the UK overlords, whose fingerprints are all over this crime scene, not to be primarily responsible for the creation and continuing existence of a Third World cesspit such as Glasgow East has the misfortune to be within the territory of what is deemed to be one of the richest states on the face of the Earth.
I am not so sure, however, whether it was such a brilliant idea to say all of the above to the Labour canvasser whom I encountered earlier today in Glasgow East when she accosted me with a view to extracting from me an undertaking to give her party my vote, as she was rendered speechless, a condition not normally associated with effective political advocacy. Perhaps I should adopt a lower profile from now on, particularly as I have no vote to give and am aware that I do not present the appearance of a local resident.
Anyway, I gather that the phase of the campaign inaugurated by the taking off of boxing gloves has now been succeeded by what is known, I believe, as a mudslinging one. That a mudslinging phase has indeed begun can be verified by perusing the pages of - you guessed it - the Daily Record. Such a messy, emotional and irrational process electioneering in a crucial by-election in a constitutionally contested subordinate territory such as Scotland is turning out to be. And they say that the campaign is only just beginning to heat up. I understand that, if I find that I cannot take the heat which may be expected to be generated now, all that I have to do is to get out of the kitchen. Unfortunately, as I would appear to have nowhere else to go for the time being, I fear that I shall just have to stay in the kitchen come what may.
As I am given to understand that the mudslinging is likely to be continued in what are known as the Sunday papers, I await their publication with interest. Toodloothenoo.
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Look i know we have all been joking about brian being on holiday etc.
But seriously WHERE IS HE????
Im actually starting to get worried that he has some kind of tragic accident with the braces.
Maybe auntie beeb has locked him in a cupboard for the duration of glasgow east.
This isnt like brian.
I heard dougie fraser from the herald is coming to the beeb
Maybe dougie fraser has locked him in a cupboard.
BEEB WE DEMAND ANSWERS.
Are you holding brian hostage?
and is it true youve nicked his braces and hidden them therby removing his political forecasting powers.
Beeb if brian isnt coming on could you kindly tell us where the heck he is?
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ODE TO BRIAN.
we sought him here
we sought him there
we looked round about
and in, out, up, down.
even roundabout.
in every cranny and every nook
alas alack I found him not
I myself looked under EVERY rock
I expected to see poor brian
or someone grinning at me at every dusty turn.
In glasgow east we looked for him too
He wasnt there either
what can we do.
Ah well brian can i say more
gordon brown is looking for a place to lie down
hes scared dont you know
very scared very scared
the snp are converting his flock
just be careful and .......................
DONT OPEN YOUR HIDEY HOLE DOOR!!!!!!
you might let him in
and then who will we mock.
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karinm - I don't think we have the right to demand answers to where Brian Taylor is.
One hopes his absence involves nothing untoward and that, in fact, Brian is sunning himself on a yacht in the south of France. And, if he is, good luck to him.
However as licence fee payers I do think we have the right to know why a key service offered by BBC Scotland - a political blog - is not being updated at all despite several very important local political developments in the last week, including:
1. A Scottish byelection with potentially earth-shaking implications for the UK government.
2. New row as Wendy Alexander's team is accused of donations cover-up.
3. Poll puts SNP ahead of Labour for Westminster general election for the first time.
In fact, I have been doing more political reporting on the BBC website via my blog posts here than all the combined resources of BBC Scotland's political desk put together!
I'm not condemning Brian Taylor individually, but BBC Scotland's collective failure to provide any political commentary at all or stimulate public debate during such politically active times is, I believe, neglectful of their duty as public broadcasters.
If there is some valid reason for it, then let's hear it.
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Good question Bighullabaloo (399); a holiday is normally advertised in advance and illness is a newsworthy item in itself, so apparently none of those.
Could it be anything to do with a string of pronouncementrs like:
"Wendy is innocent" and "he is genuinely stepping down for the good of his health" etc.
Hardly argues that he (or anybody else in the BBC for that matter) has got much of a finger on the pulse
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Re #399 bighullabaloo
Very fair comment. It's sad that not only is auntie not reporting but also she's not listening either, it would seem.
If the earthquake happens we'll hear another outburst of reporting from the BBC Westminster village questioning everything but their own judgement on how they got it so wrong.
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I wouldn't be surprised if Brian's Labour bias may have bought him a little holiday for the duration of this by-election.
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i think it's unfair to have a go at brian for being on holiday,which i'm sure he is, as many people are, and im confident he will be back in time for the by election. watching the debate now, curran has not came across well. mason has, if a little tentative, which is to be expected. curran continues to interrupt and just look like a child, although im surprised no one, including the presenter took her up on saying for once i agree with the lib dems, they were in govt with them for 8 years! as for the lib dems denail that independence has to be adressed. no one is saying instant independence, nor that the scottishpeople want it, but when between 30 and 50 percent of people(depending on the polls) believe in independence, it has to be discussed.
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Ross_Morton #403
1. It certainly is unfair to "have a go" at Brian Taylor for being on holiday, as my post at #401 made abundantly clear for anyone intelligent enough to understand it.
2. You don't know if he is on holiday, so I think it's unfair of you to have a go at people who are really just expressing their frustration at Taylor's lengthy absence.
3. It is definitely not unfair to point out that a lack of poltical commentary during a byelection that Brian himself in his second sentence points out "could help determine the political future of the Prime Minister."
No matter what the reason for Taylor's absence, it is now starting to look like a thoroughly unprofessional showing for BBC Scotland's political news team as a whole.
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#403, Ross_Morton
...when between 30 and 50 percent of people(depending on the polls) believe in independence, it has to be discussed.
Substantially fewer people support independence (although the number is undoubtedly growing), but they DO support a Holyrood administration which puts Scottish interests at the centre of its agenda.
The other parties (esp. Labour) are always hamstrung by how their actions/statements will play in the English media, possibly embarrassing the party's Westminster contingent.
John Prescott has a lot to answer for; if his cack-handed attempt to impose regional assemblies in England had been properly managed, and those assemblies were now on-stream, differentiation would be lauded...
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#405 cousteau669
"John Prescott has a lot to answer for"
Can we start with the £4,000 of public money that, since no receipts are required, we have to take his word for it was spent on "food"?
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Re #404 bighullabaloo
Good points. As Conan Doyle put it in his first Sherlock Holmes story, "It is a capital mistake to theorize before you have all the evidence." That said, one cannot deny it's fun!
If I may apply Holmes' methods to this matter, the whole tone of Brian's latest contribution above is that of someone looking forward to the rough and tumble of the hustings. And the timestamp suggests his last click of the mouse was around lunchtime last Saturday week.
Had he just packed his bucket, spade and swimming trunks in readiness for the South of France (as one post suggests) would he not have finished it with a throwaway line along the lines of "Pity I'll miss the scrap" or "Glad I won't in the ring while they slug it out" depending on how the mood took him?
Of course my attempt may, like the hapless Watson, meet with indifferent success, but do we have other inferences to pursue?
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Brownedov #407
Indeed we do Holmes, er, Brownedov.
May I point you to the fact that Brian made a point of informing us all he was departing for a few days to give political lectures in Germany.
On his return Brian commented: "Intriguing to find that my brief post on Monday, simply signalling my absence, nevertheless prompted a flurry of responses. What are you guys like?"
Two inferences:
1. Notifying his readership of one absence but not another is strangely inconsistent.
2. Would a man who finds the level of reader response in his absence "intriguing" not bother to check it for more than a week, even if he was on holiday?
The plot thickens...
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This comment has been referred to the moderators. Explain.
To the nationalists getting hot under the collar about BBC/Media bias :
Come on, this is nothing new - it's not going to change and no-one's likely to admit bias when they only have accuse you of being paranoid conspiracy theorists.
No news is good news. The less coverage the campaign gets, the more the result's down to door-knocking and talking to the people in the constituency - which should more than enough of an advantage for the SNP...
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Both inferences by Bighullaballo (407) are reasonable
Perhaps, given the less than slavishly supportive tone of his last blog entry - "no way to run a by-election" - Brian has been sent off by our Stalinist chums for a spot of re-education...
:-)
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For anyone interested, I have found this article on the Glasgow East by-election in one of the Scottish papers;
http://www.sundaypost.com/postindex.htm
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Re #408 bighullabaloo
Clearly and sadly I'm obviously more on Watson's wavelength than Holmes'.
Your points were seen but not observed, as Watson would readily have admitted.
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Re #412 Roll_On_2010
Thanks, and it's now reaching other media too but no sightings yet on the BBC website.
Interesting to compare the headlines from our august printed media on the same article.
Sunday Post:
"Labour poll lead crumbles"
Scotsman:
"Poll points to Labour by-election victory"
There's balance, for you.
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brigadierjohn -# 409
If you are so thick-skinned why respond to my posts in the way you have?
I think your nose is out of joint because I've exposed up your own worst flaw - opening your mouth without engaging your brain first.
It's obvious to all that you're one of that all too well-populated group: the ones that can give it out but can't take it.
I won't be reading or responding to anything else you say here and I doubt anyone else will bother either.
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I think I could secure Glasgow East for the SNP with my plan: Kenny McAskill would take over the campaign under a "Free Scotland!" banner. (no wisecracks about Free Scotland with every packet of porridge, please).
But no talk of independence. Kenny would say "Free Scotland!" means "Empty the Jails!"
Support would skyrocket. Think of the boost to the black economy in Shettleston. Crime families reunited. Even football hooligans would get off!
Oh, sorry. Someone's just pointed out that he's already played that card.
Well, what about redeveloping Barlinnie as a centre for unemployed prison officers?
Note to pedants: I'm just being silly, same as you. Please don't take offence. Let's face it, this blog is dying of triumphal repetitions.
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Re #409 brigadierjohn
No, I am nobody's cheerleader. as your own #360 should convince you. I agree with much of what bighullabaloo writes and am extremely grateful for snippets of information he's posted which the BBC have not. We also quite clearly share a dislike of NuLabour, but we're hardly alone in that. His #38 on a previous thread suggests he might be an SNP supporter whereas if you read my profile you'll see that I'm more a LibDem who would vote tactically for the SNP here to give NuLabour a kicking.
Re Brian's absence, possible but less fun than other theories.
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Big H: Oo-er missus! What a spluttering of non-sequiturs. I take it (because you won't be replying) that some hard truths have struck home. Well, pack up the PC and flounce away if you must. Another self-styled iconoclast bites the dust. Missing you already.
Brownedov: I think it's your turn.
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Brownedov: You got in ahead of me. Ever faithful!
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Big H: Sorry, forgot to ask: will you give me a reference if I apply for Brian's job?
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Brigadierjohn -#420 and other posts typed in enraged haste:
I'm sure some people here find it ironic that you're displaying the very capacity for spouting enraged bile that you just accused me of.
Personally I just find it pathetic.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Chaps, can we calm down the diatribe? I think there is still worth in this blog, in descriptions of how the Glasgow East election is going and people's thoughts on it. And, of course, people can be re-directed to other websites if they so desire.
So then, if you chaps were voting in Glasgow East, how would you vote? Personally I would go either Lib Dem or SNP, although I'm having a hard time deciding between them. This is because I do not like the New Labour experiment - I think they have been corrupted by too much time in power, and now have too many links to big business. Conservatives still carry the taint of poll tax for me (although agreed with Cameron the other day on his policy of people taking responsiblity for their own foibles) - I know it's wrong to hold them to account for the actions of a previous minister, but then life and politics are unfair.
Anyone else care to weigh in, or are we to be treated to tit for tat bickering?
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Eoin-og: You see, Gaeldom has its sages. You are correct about this bickering nonsense. But a bit naughty to me the other day.
As for the poll: I don't know. I want to slap Labour, without encouraging the Nats. In truth, to vote for anything else will be a protest vote and futile.
For the first time in my life I am in sympathy with those who will spoil their papers. No, that's bad form. Maybe, just maybe, a tactical vote for, whisper it, the SNP.
However, the voters aren't much interested and only the anoraks will want to poke among the bones afterwards. As I said here recently, somebody will be elected... and forgotten. Sad.
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There appears to be much bickering in in Scotland, United Kingdom through your blog
May we recap, there is a by-election in Glasgow and the Nationalists appear best placed to give this dreadful government a good hiding
The majority of the UK electorate want to see Brown lose this seat but is Salmond's amalgam up to the job in hand. We will soon find out
However, the great majority of Scottish voters oppose the SNP's real purpose that is to say their flawed policy of independence.
A recent poll found that 48% were against independence while 36% were in favour and 14% unsure, This more than suggests the voters do not want to be separated from the rest of the UK.
Of course should the Nationalists win they will claim otherwise and that is the problem for them because such a stance frightens off voters
The message to the SNP from the whole of the UK is clear - do not let us down and lose because you will never be forgiven, and any bargaining power you think that you enjoy will be lost forever
Unless Salmond proves very quickly that he cannot give comfort to those who appose his main plank, then there may just be time for the Conservatives currently at 20% in the by- election poll to save the day for the whole nation
Unlikely or even impossible you may say but perhaps the strength of anti government and anti separation is too much at this time
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Brigadier John #425 - yes, I suppose showing you up as talking total rubbish was a "bit naughty" of as far as you're concerned.
Sorry if that doesn't match up to your image of yourself as the rapier-like wit and "wind-up" merchant.
I do admit it's always a great laugh to see how easily the "wind up" merchant can be wound up.
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Big H: You ARE Thomas Porter! And I claim my free See You Jimmy wig.
I'm awa' fur ma dinner. You tell him, Eoin-og.
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Tempting though it might have been to vote for Margaret Curran, if only to spite the Nats who appear to think Glasgow East is already in the bag, less than five minutes into her strident performance on today's Politics Show Scotland, I'd rather have voted for a Monster Raving Loony - but since even they're not that mad, it'll probably have to be other bunch of loonies, the LibDems.
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And, as Brigadierjohn storms off in the inevitable huff, let us all wish him a most sincere good riddance.
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I'm not one for taking sides in a pointless dispute, chaps; sort it out on your own time.
Back to the matter in hand, then. Interesting point being made about the SNP thinking they already have it in the bag - Salmond has been accused of being smug before. But would even he think he had a by-election in the bag some two weeks before it is due to be resolved where he has such a majority to overturn? Unforgivable confidence is he does.
An interesting point about the Tories - polls aside (may I recommend Humphrey Appleby's analysis of polls in Yes, Prime Minister (the episode about defence cuts I think) for why polls should generally be left aside), the Tories must also be recording a comeback in Scotland in general. Hard for them to go lower, you might cruelly say.
And the Lib Dems - I feel somewhat sorry for them that they appear to be the fifth wheel, a kind of lingering annoyance that leads folk to call them loonies, etc. If that is your opinion that is fair enough, everyone is entitled to their own. But I think they do quite well, and get bashed to bits just because of the name.
I am (tentatively) going to put down for posterity that I can see Labour holding, but with a much reduced majority, possibly in the realms of hundreds as opposed to thousands. I will probably be wrong, one way or another, but there you are.
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"I think I could secure Glasgow East for the SNP with my plan:" etc.
I know a better one. It involves doorknocking and talking to people - polling to identify whether they're For, Against or doubtful and targetting your efforts into answering the doubts of the doubtful. Then on election day you remind your supporters to come out and vote - see if they need a lift, etc. - then count the votes on election day and see if you worked hard enough. A less entertaining plan but one that is reliably successful , if you do the work. Especially if you're in the only party that has the manpower to do it.
I live in the upper Irvine Valley - it used to traditional west of Scotland "monkeys with red rosettes" territory but these days it looks like they'll be soon be needing scales for my local SNP councillor's votes. And that turnaround largely happened in the 80s and early 90s - very much "against the run of play".
And it's much easier at by-elections with all the party workers available to, essentially, answer doubts. I'd be surprised if the SNP had stopped working that way and, under normal circumstances, I'd be expecting a large swing to the SNP here. And whatever way I look it, the current circumstances have to be the most favourable to the SNP I've ever seen.
And even if the red rosettes hang on, the campaign will certainly produce a lot of new converts for the SNP, and new converts are always the keenest to get out and do something. So, one good membership drive, and they're in a great position to win the seat at a General Election and then keep it - which is the real object of the exercise.
Admittedly, the SNP haven't always done so well on that kind of consolidation in the past but, again, the general climate's never been this favourable for them either.
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Re #429 cousteau669
Yes - I've just finished watching it and concur that Maggie did not win over a new friend. To be fair, none of them were brilliant and none completely ducked the questions.
Although normally a LibDem supporter (yes maybe I am a loony believing as I do in democracy), I'd still go for Mason and the SNP had I vote as the most likely to take the grin off her face.
For anyone who was unable to watch it live, you may have noticed that both the narrow and broad band versions on the BBC Scotland Player still point to an old edition. I've reported it and maybe it'll be fixed sometime but at the time of writing you can watch it in 5 parts on youtube by searching for "Glasgow East candidates debate"
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Brian,
So have you or have you not been transmorgrified into Dougie Fraser??
We need to know.
You are silent.
Dougie has left the Herald apparently.
Will he be co-presenting GMS and turning it into a family affair??
We should be told!!
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With auntie still snoozing over the provision of news and the Scottish media seemingly having nothing much new either, I thought the following might be of interest, if only to warn Glasgow East residents to beware of itinerant Labour MPs. It's from the London Times under the headline:
Labour MPs told to invade Scotland ahead of Glasgow East by-election
"Every Labour MP will be ordered to campaign in Glasgow East amid mounting panic that the party could lose the by-election in the constituency this month.
Party whips are launching an extraordinary operation to ensure that every minister and backbencher hits the streets on the tough estates of Easterhouse to try to stave off the threat from the Scottish National party (SNP).
The rearguard action is remarkable because Labour’s Margaret Curran will be defending a majority of 13,500. The SNP needs a swing of 22%.
The visits will be strictly monitored, with backbenchers required to clock in when they reach Glasgow. MPs have been warned the trips are not a “jolly” and that they must be seen to be doing the “donkey work” of canvassing.
Ministers who can show they have too much work on to make the 800-mile round trip from London will be required to contact voters by telephone.
The orders risk triggering a mutiny within the party, with many MPs struggling to hide their lack of enthusiasm for campaigning in one of the grimmest constituencies in Britain."
PS: See my #387 for views of Mr Murdoch, but news is news
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