Battle begins
I know, I know. "Resigning to spend more time with his family". Usually seen as a euphemism. Happens on this occasion to be true.
Nicol Stephen has four young children - and has wrestled with the challenge of providing a stable family life while operating as leader and serving his Aberdeen constituency.
He tried. The family moved to Edinburgh in order to permit a more stable domestic life.
But he then faced criticism, orchestrated or otherwise, about his main base no longer being in the constituency.
They then returned to living in Aberdeen. Or, more precisely, Mr Stephen's wife Caris and the four kids returned to Aberdeen.
Mr Stephen split his time between Aberdeen, parliament and leadership duties.
Here at Holyrood, there has been almost nothing but sympathy for Nicol Stephen's decision.
Most have sensibly confined themselves to wishing him all the best in his efforts to ease domestic stresses and strains. One or two have, unwisely, added riders about the supposed irrelevance of the LibDems.
From me, best wishes to the Stephen family - and all families seeking a happier, better life for themselves.
So who takes over? Tavish Scott is favourite although he has yet to declare and is stressing his determination to consult first.
However, he stood aside when Mr Stephen replaced Jim Wallace - and I have no doubt that he will stand this time. He brings experience, drive, charm and a hard-headed approach to politics.
Ross Finnie - a former cabinet colleague of both Nicol Stephen and Tavish Scott - is giving it serious thought. Well liked and well respected, he'll get a decent vote if he chooses to stand.
Mike Rumbles was first into the frame - and will stand on a ticket of, among other things, reopening a debate within the party as to whether to endorse an independence referendum or not.
That stance will win support in some quarters of the LibDems. Glance at the title of the party. Liberal and democratic.
They are institutionally inclined towards both discussion and plebiscites.
Mr Rumbles stresses he supported the policy as advanced by Nicol Stephen. However, he would welcome an opportunity for the wider party to debate the issue.
Tavish Scott took the toughest line against supporting a referendum during the brief talks with the SNP about a putative coalition.
He argues that, if the SNP win a majority, then they should have their referendum and hope for fine weather. But other parties who support the Union should not assist them in their task.
That will be an intriguing element of the debate within the Liberal Democrats - just as within the leaderless Labour Party.
Alex Salmond must daily wonder if he is dreaming.
A final thought. This resignation is, in two ways, a result of electoral defeat or, more precisely, the loss of office.
Ministerial rank is more appealing than opposition. And, as a minister, you have a team of supporters and a government car to lessen the trials.
I'm 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~30~RS~)
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The Lib-Dems made one of the worst political decisions ever in not forming a coalition with the SNP last year.
They could have joined the SNP lead government on their terms but decided not to because they couldn't agree on a referendum to let the people decide on their constitutional future. Strange from a party that has "democrat" in their name.
Since then they have become political non-entities, stuck in the wilderness of the back benches.
With falling poll ratings they look to be heading to oblivion in Scotland at the next election.
I see one of the possible leader contenders, Mike Rumbles, has said he would look at the referendum policy again if he won the leadership. In my opinion they don't have a choice.
They could still form a coalition with the SNP, but it would be on SNP terms now. Basically that would mean supporting an SNP Bill for a referendum.
So the choice facing the new leader is, support the referendum and the SNP or face political oblivion !
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I'm sorry Brian I just do not buy into his "wanting to spend more time with his family."
I will await the reason to be placed in the public domain if it ever will be; no egotist as Nicol Stephen is would surrender his celebrity status, I would think if he has four young children he may well be spending too much time with his family.
So what is he going to do now?
1) Move Back to Aberdeen and exacerbate the situation of family face time through travelling to and from Holyrood?
2) Stay in Edinburgh and exacerbate the situation of constituency face time through travelling to and from Holyrood?
3) Surrender his position in public life as do most individuals who express a desire to 'spend more time with their family'?
If not 'cake and eat it' springs to mind
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Brian,
Could Scottish politics get more interesting?? It's going to be an exciting summer.
I think there's at least one name missing from your list and that's the name of Jeremy Purvis who was one of the few FibDems to do well in the last election. Remember that Mr. Stephen had wanted the FibDems to be the largest party in Holyrood as his objective. The results were a miserable result for his leadership.
So the question is: what took him so long to resign?? And did he see the writing on the wall for his own future and that of the FibDems once weebendybringiton decided to quit? Some digging to be done there, Brian!
As for replacements, I think 'the faithful' will give it to T Scott if he decides to run- but yet his family life is more complicated than that of N Stephen! But will the electorate notice any difference? Scott and Stephen are Tweedledum and Tweedledee of Scottish politics. At least when weebendybringiton is replaced there will be some changes, but with the FibDems, no chance!!
Mike Rumbles is an outside chance though a bit of a maverick but, unlike NS/TS, he has yet to have a charisma by-pass - and long may that be the case.
As you say, the EckMeister must be thinking Christmas has come early and all the turkeys have voted!!
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Three weeks before a by election? Something about fan springs to mind, or is this just being cynical? The likely candidates look almost as appealling as Nicol did, Shreck must be shaking in his shoes.Tavish will be too busy dressing and combing his hair to provide any opposition and wasn't his record of expense accounting a wee bit suspect at one point? The other two or three are unlikely to provide any better opposition, one trained by little diddy David and the other two past their sell by date.
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I knew little of the political views of Tavish Scott before reading the above. Fairly or unfairly, I think he is best known outside of Shetland because of his gains on the Edinburgh property market.
However, by Brian's account it appears he shares his former leader's complete lack of understanding of what 'liberal democracy' means: the idea that the people should freely and fairly choose their constitution and their form of government.
Nicol Stephen (infamously) argued in public that since the Liberal Democrats didn't support independence, they were opposed to an independence referendum, despite the fact that a large majority in opinion polls support holding such a referendum.
So Tavish, whatever happened to, er, the people freely and fairly choosing their constitution and their form of government? Better not give the people a choice, in case they, er, choose what they want and it turns out to be, er, liberty...
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I support the SNP and the cause of independence but, that aside, there seems to be only one reasonable option open to those parties who would oppose them; that is to embrace federalism. However, I have barely heard a peep out of the Lib Dems on this issue. For a party who pride themselves on being federalists they certainly like to keep quiet about the details. They are in danger of being side-lined by the Labour party who, in their recent desperation, have begun mumbling the F word.
Of course, the Scottish parties would have to win that argument with their Westminster counterparts; it is a viable alternative to our unequal union as it stands(unequal for the English voter too), and it may well reward the party who annunciates it with more clarity some handsome rewards in terms of votes. Labour and the Lib Dems have a lot of deep thinking to do. Meanwhile, Alex Salmond's honeymoon looks set to continue into next year.
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The Lib Dems fought a lacklustre election campaign, and Stephen has never really recovered from it, despite some good performances in the parliament.
They're in a poor way, but not irrelevant yet. The SNP's oppressive alcohol legislation will give them a boost. The Lib Dems also tend to build railways, something the nats scarcely seem to care about.
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FM Alex often poured
Scorn on Nichol Stephen
Little could the public guess
How soon he'd be leavin'
Well he led his motley band
Tho' the fray was cruel
Wrestling with the Stench of Sleaze
And raging costs of fuel
Folks no more will spier askance
At FMQ's weekly screening
"Yonder pedant, who is he?"
"Left or right his leaning???"
Now he?s gone some good leagues hence
Into the misty yonder
His merry crew left on the fence
With time to sit and ponder
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I see that His majority is rather less than 3000,could the prospects of having a Party Leader lose His Seat be a factor here ?
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Is Alex Salmond going to allow a referendum on faith schools? After all, the people ought to be able to decide their own educational and religious future, and opinion polls show that most people want rid of them.
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Like most others I'm doubtful about Stephen's motives. Spending time with the family would make more sense if he were standing down as an MSP. He isn't.
Also why resign "with immediate effect" leaving his party leaderless at a time when a by-election is being held? Surely the responsible, and decent thing to do, was to give notice that he would stand down as soon as a replacement had been elected? Why such indecent haste?
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"A final thought. This resignation is, in two ways, a result of electoral defeat or, more precisely, the loss of office...as a minister, you have a team of supporters and a government car to lessen the trials."
Ahh, the Lib-Dems and their cars.
To mangle a great American quote,
"Once you've taken their Mondeo their hearts and minds will follow."
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Liberals have been working for Self Government for 100 years, preferably in a Federal State. We are REAL Scottish Nationalists not like the vicious, chauvinist, twist the truth, thing run by A.Salmond.
People did not like to say it but the reason why we did not join a coalition with the SNP was not their policies, but that most members could not stomach working with the really objectionable type of people to be found in their party. Much less agreeable than the Tories.
Some posts here might confirm this impression.
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No 13,
Well I guess the number you got says it all!!
How on earth can you claim that you are the REAL nationalists when you defy your democratic origins and deny a free vote on an independence referendum to the people of Scotland??.
Yet all you FibDems will be up in arms about the denial of democracy in other countries!!
John Campbell Bannerman would disown the lot of you!!
And with respect to working/not working with other parties what a completely childish attitude to take. So you adapt the old adage, 'it's ma ball and I'm not letting you nasty nats play with it'.
Grow up.
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#13
I was involved in politics for 30+ years - in 3 different parties (according to which seemed best for Scotland at the time). In each of them (Liberal, SNP, Labour) there were really nasty, bigoted self-seeking people. In each of them, there were also people who were pleasant, helpful and genuinely caring about the people.
I'm glad to see your proof that all the nasty people didn't leave the Liberals!
Elections are about all kinds of things (unfortunately so are referenda - c/f Ireland). However, a more useful position for the Lib-Dems would have been to have argued for a referendum in which a Federal UK was an option.
That was actually the option I first supported, before we entered the EEC - Europe provides many of the benefits that a UK Federal Government would have provided, so Westminster is left being too remote for our domestic issues, and too small to deal with the macro-economic issues. Oh, of course there is currently foreign policy - want to argue that Iraq demonstrates any benefit from UK level decision making?
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#10s Question is bang on. Is Alex Salmond going to have a referendum on religious schools?
The EXACT same argument that you guys are using of "allowing us the freedom to decide" is equally applicable in that, and a million other situations.
So lets go over why it is that we don't have a referendum on every issue ever, mainly because its impractical and unneccessary.
So under what conditions do you have a referendum, where there is a reason to believe that the population are very keen to have a certain situation implemented or under situations where the government is about to implement a policy but there are concerns by the opposition that it lacks public support.
Now, there is NO evidence, and there NEVER has been that the Scottish people want Independence, so no reason why there's an overwhelming call to do it.
And there's no situation in which a majority of the Scottish, or UK Parliaments will be enacting a bill to break up the UK, and therefore no need for a referendum to justify it.
By ALL OF YOUR ARGUMENTS Nicol Stephen is guilty for not having a referendum on absolutely everything. Why exactly is he wrong for pointing out that there is no evidence that the Scottish people want Independence, and therefore no need to have a referendum.
Please don't respond to this with, "if you're so confident why not hold one" cos I wish we could just to shut you idiots up. Please somebody respond and tell me why we have both and immediate NEED and RIGHT to have a referendum on this, but not for example on religious schools which as #10 pointed out is an issue which the Scottish people ACTUALLY care about.
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Re #1 from mysteriousRiverclyde: The Lib-Dems made one of the worst political decisions ever in not forming a coalition with the SNP last year.
I certainly agree, but it has to come second to this year's decision to support The Supreme Leader over the Lisbon referendum.
Somehow the current LibDem leadership has forgotten its democratic soul and is in danger of committing political hara-kiri UK-wide on the same spectacular scale as NuLabour seem to be.
Especially if they're so sure they'll win, they have no valid reason to oppose the referendum and although I agree that any coalition "would be on SNP terms now", they could surely negotiate the multi-choice version to put their "more powers within the UK" proposition to the public.
What would they have to lose?
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No.13
I wonder if the LibDems / or SNP are really in favour of "self-government"? Both these parties are "Euro-Unionist" and more than happy to let us be ruled from Brussels. Let Scotland be genuinely independent of both London and Brussels as advocated by the Free Scotland Party!
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Re #13. from JohnCraig87, #14 from freedjmac and #15 from oldnat
I regard myself as an old Liberal and have never previously heard anything so illiberal as #13 coming from a fellow Liberal.
I do agree with the "preferably in a Federal State" bit, but find the rest of your comment unforgivable.
Even if you were right about what you say, federalism will require coalition partners and there is nothing to be gained by alienating them in advance. The Tories may be jolly nice chaps but it will be a long while before they're interested in federalism as they made clear in London only yesterday.
Accordingly I agree with almost everything said in #14 and #15 .
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#16
Before you get angry and call your opponents "idiots", it would be wise to know your facts.
There is no tradition here of referenda on social issues - unlike Switzerland (which consequently was the last western country to enfranchise women!). However, there has been an expectation for the last 50 years that major constitutional change should be subject to a referendum.
Hence, it would require a major change in constitutional law for us to move to a general system of referenda. Feel free to argue for that if you wish. On "faith" (by which I presume you mean Catholic) schools. You should note that such schools actually only exist in the Central Belt and South-West Scotland. Should Orcadians have a vote on this?
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Dougie a beautiful piece, worthy of William Topaz Mc Gonigal at his best!
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Re #16 NCA999: So under what conditions do you have a referendum, where there is a reason to believe that the population are very keen to have a certain situation implemented or under situations where the government is about to implement a policy but there are concerns by the opposition that it lacks public support.
Simple, you use the Swiss system and don't give the people anything. At communal, cantonal or national level the Swiss themselves demand a referendum on whatever they want, just needing a certain number of signatures (about 2%) to get one.
I spend nearly half my time in Swtizerland and find it really works. If interested, you could start by looking at: http://direct-democracy.geschichte-schweiz.ch/
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A strong Scottish Lib Dem leader at Holyrood would appear to have, at least in theory, strategic options worth considering in view of Lib Dem advocacy of a federal constitution for the UK with transfer of substantial powers away from the centre.
If the next Scottish Lib Dem leader were to approach the SNP with a view to supporting a referendum on independence as a basis for an SNP/Lib Dem coalition, and if the SNP were to accept, the Lib Dems would be in a strong position to drum up support for their preferred option of greater powers for the Scottish Parliament within a federal UK, a policy which might conceivably prevail within Scotland at the end of the day if it were strongly advocated from within government by a party showing itself willing to not deny the electorate its democratic right to have its say on the vexed question of independence.
Unfortunately, there would still remain the small problem of persuading England, which would need a referendum on a federal constitution, as would the whole of the UK, of course. Even if that consideration were disregarded, there would appear to be no reason for the SNP to accept such an offer or indeed any form of coalition offer from any party upon any basis. The moment has passed. Mr Stephen let it slip through his fingers in May last year. The SNP has discovered that it can manage on its own, and the balance of advantage for it may well lie in continuing as a minority government.
Timing is everything. Mr Stephen got it wrong. History may record that his miscalculation at a crucial juncture determined the constitutional future of Scotland. Nicol Stephen may be remembered as the unionist who made Scotland independent.
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Brownedov
Thanks - interesting explanation on that website. Do you think that such a system could be exported elsewhere (ie here) with our different traditions?
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I fail to see how staying on as an MSP - and taking the time to properly serve the needs of his constituents - will take any less time than leading the LibDems at Holyrood.
If Nicol Stephen wants to spend more time with his family - and I would like to think that he is not being disingenuous - then surely he should be resigning as an MSP. [I'm not sure as to whether the LibDem constitution allows such a position, but it would seem easier to be leader but not MSP than to be MSP but not leader.]
Will we now have to become used to an empty seat among the LibDem ranks, because Nicol has something "better to do"?
Or, as I consider might be all too likely the case, has the absence of real (i.e. ministerial) work led Nicol Stephen to realise how dull is a politician's life in Edinburgh - particularly if most of your closest confidants are LibDems?
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NCA999:
Please let us not start this row again.
There is no clear evidence to support Independence or the Union as having a majority.
You would have to hold a referendum to actually prove this. Why?
The Irish referendum on the Lisbon Treaty was an example of the outcome being different from all the polls that were done beforehand. I think it was one or two days before the actual vote that the polls began to change and on voting day for the polls to show the 'No' vote to have a clear majority.
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I happen to believe Nicol Stephen's reasons for resigning. I also believe that it is possible to be in favour of democracy and against what people have voted for. Indeed, I think that's what sets democracies apart.
As I understand it, The Lib Dem position on a referendum is clear; Lib Dems are not in favour of Independence, so, do not consider a referendum on independence to be a good use of public money and civil service time and energy. If the SNP, as the governing party, chose to hold a referendum, that's fine. They will do so in the face of opposition from the other Parties in the Parliament, not opposition to the referendum, but to independence. That's what democracy is! The Lib Dem view is that if the majority of people vote Independence, they should have it and as it's not what Lib Dems want they are not going to promote it in any way.
I seem to remember that the SNP were against the Constitutional Convention, and, according to some, a Scottish Parliament. However, many groupings across the country worked together, to bring about that Parliament. And here we are. We have the Parliament and over the piece it does a good job.
We are a tiny, but fabulous country. Why oh why do we keep shooting ourselves in the foot? Why are we proclaiming from the rooftops that the majority of our elected representatives are numpties? My experience of Scottish politics, which is not inconsiderable, tells me that there are good, talented, and committed, people in all the parties and all the parties. I don't have to agree with everything they say to recognise their talent and commitment.
Maybe, we all need to listen more and speak less. Maybe then we could actually work together to improve our country and our future.
Let's try to keep the debate political rather than personal.
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#16 "Now, there is NO evidence, and there NEVER has been that the Scottish people want Independence, so no reason why there's an overwhelming call to do it."
Of course, actually there is. Over 80% of them have repeatedly expressed a desire to have a referendum on the subject, across all party barriers. And most recent surveys show a small majority in favour of independence itself.
That's in no way conclusive proof, of course, but it certainly indicates that it's an issue that ought to be addressed. Of course, if you keep refusing the people a voice, you can keep claiming that they're not interested...
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David Marshall, Labour MP for Glasgow East, blames ill-health when resigning his seat. Brian Taylor declares his personal sympathies.
Wendy Alexander blames everyone, except herself, for resigning. Brian Taylor sees merit in those criticisms.
Nicol Stephen blames the pressure of being an opposition leader at Holyrood in him resigning. Brian Taylor says the LibDem leader is doing the right thing in spending more time with his family.
Of course this has nothing to do with MPs expenses at Westminster, dodgy Labour party donations and the collapse in the LibDems support......nothing at all.
You can't ever pull the wool over Brian Taylor's eyes.
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In May of last year I voted Lib Dem for my constituency vote and SNP for my list vote.
I have to say I feel completely let down by the former, and rewarded by the latter.
I still don't understand why the Lib Dems bowed to Gordon Brown's pressure and refused to negotiate a coalition with the SNP. There was so much in common in terms of the manifestos, you could barely put a cigarette paper between them on many issues.
As 'democrats' they must surely accept that the SNP won lots of votes on the ticket of an independence referendum. So to refuse, point blank, to talk to them about a coalition - at a cost of the ability to help shape a joint programme of shared priorities - just smacked of small-minded politics.
I wrote to Nicol Stephen to express my dismay but heard nothing in reply... so I shed no tears at his departure, nor the increasing obscurity to which his party is headed.
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I am currently in S Africa and had an interesting perspective on Scottish independence from a S African.
He was confused by the argument that "Scotland wouldn't be able to survive as an independent nation as it receives too many handouts from England."
His point: If this were true then surely England be glad to allow Scottish independence?
How can anyone honestly dispute Scotland's ability to rule itself??
The truth is that England wants Scotland to remain in the Union as Scotland gives more than it gets.
Re Nicol Stephen: It really does make the SNP look good that both Lib Dem and Labour leaders have resigned after just over a year of opposing Alex Salmond.
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minuend #29
Brian Taylor does indeed see merit in all those things but we are still waiting to hear what merit Brian sees in the fabulous job Alex Salmond is doing in scoring political triumph after triumph.
The absence of merit for those achievements has become more and more noticeable and has not goten to the point where there is hardly a person left who doesn't laugh at the BBC's claims of "impartiality".
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In response to rev campbell and others who seem to believe that the Scottish people are being denied a referendum by the Lib dems or the Labour party or the Tories or the big boy who done it and ran away..........
We seem to have an SNP government in Scotland, that's what they have decided to call themselves, and i have no quarrel with that. If the SNP government want Independence and the people want a referendum........... What is the problem? Only the SNP government can deliver a referendum, they believe they have popular demand for that, who else's permission do they need?
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Re #24 from oldnat: Do you think that such a system could be exported elsewhere (ie here) with our different traditions?
I really don't see why not - Scotland had 3 referenda in the last quarter of the 20th century and certainly doesn't seem any the worse for it. Quite the contrary, I think most would agree.
I do take your point in #20 that "Switzerland ... was the last western country to enfranchise women!" . It certainly is a feature of their system that change happens slowly, because things are inherently tilted in favour of the status quo given the majorities needed of both electors and cantons.
Certainly some Swiss I know would like to have faster mechanisms but all acknowledge that it makes it difficult for politicians to sell a "fast one", and the people (like the Irish) won't vote for something they don't understand.
I really don't see that the average Scot (or any other Brit) is incapable of making decisions in this way.
At worst, it means that desirable change is delayed for a year or so but that is a small price to pay for stopping the politicians running roughshod over you for 4 or 5 years before you get a chance to throw the scoundrels out.
What's more difficult is getting the politicians to agree to it. As you can see from the website I mentioned, it took a minor civil war for the Swiss politicians to adopt the system. I really hope it doesn't come to that in the UK.
I believe we'll be saved from that purely by NuLabour's incompetence, but if they go too far I fear that there'll be Nationalist majorities in Scotland and Wales opposite a large Tory one in England which wouldn't bode too well for any kind of federalism.
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Brownedov
Interesting. The English principle of the sovereignity of Parliament would make the Swiss system unacceptable to UK politicians.
I know you don't want an Independent Scottish state, but if (as is possible) it happens, presumably you would want the new Scottish Constitution or (if you support the concept of improving devolution via the Calman Commission) any improved devolution legislation, to be the best political structure.
Hence, I'm interested in your views as to how something like the Swiss system could be exported to Scotland.
I don't like a unicameral Parliament, as it allows Government (under the party political system) to impose laws that are badly thought out. I think you are right that delay before legislating is often sensible.
I wouldn't really want a Senate in Scotland (yet more politicians!), but the House of Lords has been the only saviour of civil liberties at UK level under the current UK Government.
Something like the Swiss model might be an interesting alternative. Do the Swiss have similarly partisan newspaper media as here?
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This is all heading in the wrong direction. Look at his constituencey its Aberdeen area and he has upset just about everyone there with his stupid comments on the TrumpSlease allogations. He is unelectable in Aberdeen so it was best to do it while everyone is looking at Labour. It was a convenient time to do it for them but it was bound to happen. He was terrible in FM questions anyway. I will always remember his face after Eks Merry Christmas speech. He will be gone from Scottish politics come he next round of voter its weel kent.
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# 30
"I still don't understand why the Lib Dems bowed to Gordon Brown's pressure"
G. Brown had NOTHING to do with it.
" and refused to negotiate a coalition with the SNP.
There was so much in common in terms of the manifestos, you could barely put a cigarette paper between them on many issues."
That is true but so many found the twisting, misrepresenting, devious behaviour of Salmond and some of
his activists on the ground so obnoxious[Gordon Brown's poodles, fibdems, not a Scots party, two faced etc.] that coalition would have smashed the party. I have been assaulted, spat at, sworn at by the SNP; never the others. The SNP have the intensity of a Liberation Movement not a political party.
I like Roseanna C., Andrew Welsh and Mike they are different
"As 'democrats' they must surely accept that the SNP won lots of votes on the ticket of an independence referendum. So to refuse, point blank, to talk to them about a coalition"
See 13# and above
" nor the increasing obscurity to which his party is headed."
Better to die as a warrior than live on your knees as a slave - of the SNP.
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I think it's time the Scottish public started to think about getting rid of all the snouts that are stuck in the Westminster trough.
The process can start with the voters of Glasgow East. They can vote SNP and take us one step closer to getting rid of these Westminster conmen.
If enough people vote SNP we can get rid of these crooks in Westminster once and for all with an independent Scotland.
Sure, we'd still have our own bunch of crooks here in Scotland to deal with, but at least they would be our crooks, and the trough won't be anything like as big.
That at least would be a start towards ending this lunacy of a Westminster gravy train.
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johncraig87:
That is a big statement to make, spat at, assaulted, and by the SNP, and who were the "others"? care to back that up with some proof? Most likely you got a smack from some Ned out side a pub, judgeing by your comments you deserved it.
Or are you just some sad little Unionist who can't stand the fact that Scotland is getting a proper goverment.
Maybe your English, and hate the idea that your gravy train is leaving the station, and with all that oil.
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Yes Brian, Mr. Stephen may genuinely wish to spend more time with his family, but at who's expense one must ask?
He is just another typical example of why taxpayers are sick to death with politicians and their unethical ways.
Both Westminster and Holyrood are permantly stained with what amounts to nothing more than criminality.
Yesterday in Westminster, Gorbals Mick and his cronies voted to keep the infamous ''John Lewis'' expenses, have they no morals at all?
This article sums up Nicol Stephen and his leadership qualities:
SCOTTISH Liberal Democrat leader Nicol Stephen is renting out a £400,000 Edinburgh house that he bought for his own home with help from the taxpayer, it was reported last night.
Stephen and his wife Caris Doig bought the property in 2002 for £193,333 and received £10,000 a year from the public purse to pay mortgage interest and council tax under the controversial Edinburgh Allowances Scheme (EAS).
Under the scheme, MSPs from outside the Central Belt can get taxpayers' cash to help them find a place to stay in Edinburgh.
But the MSP for Aberdeen South has now taken in lodgers for the two-bedroomed house in the Morningside area of Edinburgh.
Wansanshoo.
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#37 JohnCraig87.
''Gordon Brown Had Nothing To Do With It''
This should jog your failing memeory:
I was shocked but not surprised by the former Lib Dem leader Sir Menzies Campbell's shameless autobiographical admission that in the run-up to last year's Holyrood election he engaged in secret talks with Gordon Brown aimed at preventing the SNP from forming ? or even participating in ? an administration after the election (your report, 5 March).
This merely serves to confirm the strong suspicion entertained by many observers at the time that Sir Ming himself played a crucial role in the Lib Dems' curious decision not even to enter a dialogue with the SNP on the possibility of forming a coalition administration, despite the evidence of widespread agreement on a range of common policies in the manifestos of both parties.
Even more disturbing is the clear evidence afforded by the pre-election Brown-Campbell talks of a concerted effort by Westminster politicians to interfere in the internal affairs of the Scottish Parliament.
It is intellectually dishonest of top Westminster politicians to proclaim their undying commitment to the principles of devolution while simultaneously doing everything in their power behind the scenes to undermine the integrity of the elected Scottish Parliament and its decision-making process.
In reality, it is painfully obvious that Messrs Brown and Campbell devoutly believe Holyrood politicians of all parties are not really up to the job of governing Scotland since they lack the allegedly superior wisdom of Westminster MPs.
It is just a pity that the Scottish Lib Dem leader, Nicol Stephen, likewise lacked the backbone to stand up to his interfering, patrician London boss.
End Of Cutting
Wansanshoo.
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Is this the property funded by the taxpayer that Mr. Stephen decided to partly let out?
1 Nicol Stephen Edinburgh Accommodation Allowance Mortgage Interest £748.41 View Details
2 Nicol Stephen Edinburgh Accommodation Allowance Mortgage Interest £748.41 View Details
3 Nicol Stephen Edinburgh Accommodation Allowance Council Tax £719.38 View Details
4 Nicol Stephen Edinburgh Accommodation Allowance Telephones £168.00 View Details
5 Nicol Stephen Edinburgh Accommodation Allowance Utilities £605.20 View Details
6 Nicol Stephen Edinburgh Accommodation Allowance TV Licence £126.50 View Details
7 Nicol Stephen Edinburgh Accommodation Allowance Mortgage Interest £641.41 View Details
8 Nicol Stephen Edinburgh Accommodation Allowance Mortgage Interest £107.00 View Details
9 Nicol Stephen Edinburgh Accommodation Allowance Mortgage Interest £748.41 View Details
10 Nicol Stephen Edinburgh Accommodation Allowance Mortgage Interest £748.41 View Details
11 Nicol Stephen Edinburgh Accommodation Allowance Mortgage Interest £748.41 View Details
12 Nicol Stephen Edinburgh Accommodation Allowance Mortgage Interest £748.41 View Details
13 Nicol Stephen Edinburgh Accommodation Allowance Mortgage Interest £748.41 View Details
14 Nicol Stephen Edinburgh Accommodation Allowance Mortgage Interest £748.41 View Details
15 Nicol Stephen Edinburgh Accommodation Allowance Mortgage Interest £748.41 View Details
16 Nicol Stephen Edinburgh Accommodation Allowance Mortgage Interest £748.41 View Details
Should Mr. Stephen decide to relocate, given his ''personal'' circumstances, would he then claim his ''Winding Up Allowance'' ?
Wansanshoo.
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"I think it's time the Scottish public started to think about getting rid of all the snouts that are stuck in the Westminster trough."
I can think of one man with his snout firmly in the trough, even after he promised to remove it...
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I am sorry I dont buy the "family reasons " thing its like for "Health reasons". Perhaps one day the Unionist media will tell us the real reason he has packed it in. Profiteering in Edinburgh or sleaze at the Aberdeen bye pass.who knows.
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Re #35 from oldnat:
You're certainly right that the idea of giving more power to the electorate doesn't appeal to most politicians, who merely repeat the old mantra of "representative democracy" whenever cornered on the subject, and I certainly see no cracks in that unpopular front from either NuLabour or the Tories.
By the next general election, with The Supreme Leader apparently both determined and able to lead his lemmings over an electoral cliff, that will likely make the Tories big winners (in England) with initially something of a vacuum regarding an organised opposition. Obviously, the SNP and Plaid should do well in that election, but potentially so could the LibDems, and all 3 may be more minded to form a loose coalition to provide effective opposition to the Tories.
It's in those opposition ranks that a new "populism" could arise as NuLabour declines. Even politicians are prepared to compromise their "principles" in order to win and keep power, as Bliar and Brown have ably demonstrated over the past decade or so.
The Liberal/LibDem successes over the past 40+ years have almost all been based on attention to local issues and if their new leadership actually remember this they might just realise that ceding some power to the people could win them a share of the power all politicians crave. I'm less hopeful than I was that this would happen, given their anti-democratic attitudes over both the independence referendum and the EU one, but they still have a little time left to wake up.
In such a scenario, Cameron would be faced with the choice of something fairly radical to save the Union or going down in History as the last Prime Minister of the UK and the first of England. That would be the big opportunity for a federal solution to be offered, with a 3-way referendum in Scotland being the probable outcome.
The federal solution offered could be separate unicameral Parliaments for Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England based on the four existing ones, with a single, fully-elected Senate replacing the House of Lords as the revising one. It might just keep the Union together a while longer.
Re "Do the Swiss have similarly partisan newspaper media as here?", I'm no expert on the Swiss press, which is in sharper decline than in Britain but there's certainly not the level of bias we've come to expect from the likes of Murdoch.
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As a SNP member I would like to say that I wish Nicol Stephen and family well. I don't know him personally, but have met several MSPs and know the workload required by a conscientious MSP. Added to that the requirements of leading his group, it is easy to see why he resigned.
As for his replacement, they have very poor choices. Tavish Scott is arrogant and humourless, a bad combination esp in a leader. Mike Rumbles is certainly more colourful and would be more entertaining but does he have the gravitas for the job? Ross Finnie did a poor job in protecting our fishermen, and, frankly, always reminds me of Capt Mainwairing (peurile point, but true). Beyond them I'm struggling to name another Libdem MSP.
There is an old chinese curse, "May you live in interesting times". We certainly do, but this is no bad thing. After decades of stagnation, Scotland has a chance of a more positive future.
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Re #46 from scot2010: Tavish Scott is arrogant and humourless, a bad combination esp in a leader.
Well said. The case of one G. Brown springs to mind as a shining example.
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Stepping back from the partisan bickering and dark hints there might be more to this than Nicol Stephen wanting to spend more time with his family, the refusal by the LibDems to enter into a coalition with the SNP over the question of a referendum was both logical and fatal.
It was logical because the SNP won the election primarily because they offered a credible alternative to the sitting Lib/Lab coalition rather than because a vote for the SNP was a vote for an immediate referendum. Instead the SNP policy, quite rightly, was to first demonstrate that a proper Scottish government was a viable proposition before offering its people the choice to say yea or nay for keeps.
Had the SNP been elected on a plank of an immediate referendum the LibDems might have been tempted to support them in the short term secure in the knowledge that independence would be rejected; if on the other hand they joined in a coalition committed to a referendum some years down the line they would be helping the SNP to demonstrate the viability of a Scottish government and thus encouraging a yes vote in the eventual referendum.
At the time the decision to stand aloof therefore looked like the right call, but the result has been fatal because aided by the mind-blowingly spectacular incompetence of the once mighty Labour Party, Wee Eck and his boys are doing a good job of proving their case on their own and the LibDems are now looking pretty irrelevant.
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I to wish him well with his family but is he going to sell his property in Edinburgh and if so will he hand any profit back to the Tax P ayer who paid his mortgage for him if he was to do this he would then gain a lot of respect from me and many others I think.
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"Ross Finnie did a poor job in protecting our fishermen"
You mean, he didn't spend a fortune propping them up?
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#10 - the position re faith schools is quite simple. If you don't want your child to attend one, don't send him/her there. And before you commence the usual, well-trodden 'they promote bigotry' line, let me point out that I went to a faith school. It taught me to respect those of other faiths. Bigotry was NOT tolerated at my school. In any case, most faith schools these days take children from all faiths and none. My former school has a large number of Moslem children being taught there.
Children learn bigotry at home, not school.
As for Mr Stephen, given his reputation for prevarication when he was in government, I wonder how long it took him to reach this decision!
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39. Why are so many nationalists still clinging to the myth that Scotland does not keep its full share of oil revenue?
Even the SNP, in their latest accounts, say this is incorrect.
May I suggest that said nationalists actually make the effort to read up on the subject before spouting such nonsense.
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RE Question Time last night from Musselburgh...
I'm not a conspiracist by nature, but.......
Were we witnessing Propoganda of the highest order last night on the British Broadcasting Corporation?
I was gobsmacked....
Just where exactly was the audience sourced (bussed in) from?
NS did really well to hold her tongue as she and her government was constantly accused of this, that and the next thing and then bypassed by Dimbleby without being allowed to offer a proper defence or response...
As for Green T-shirt man and Asian man in red jumper.... I would love to know a little bit more about their backgrounds.... Call me suspicious, but i wouldnt be surprised to find out that they have Equity cards......
I then switched over to BBC News 24 for QT Extra and judging by the text messages that were whizzing across the screen 80% of those who took the time to text in from Scotland were all in favour of an independent Scotland...
Something just doesnt add up....
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re #47 form Brownedov:
Yes good comparison
Re: #50 from Anaxim
Fishermen in my experience do not want "propped up", just to get a fare share of the fish in our waters. Richard Lochhead is fighting for that. Finnie wouldn't or couldn't.
Anyway what evidence do you have that a "fortune" has been spent in supporting them?
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Why does every Blog ultimately descend into SNP / Independence bashing?
Bottom line was that Nicol Stephen was inept, one wonders whether he was pushed......
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#37 JohnCraig87
and #39 Alanreid27
Most disturbed to hear your comments on being assaulted. Despite AlanReid27s comments, their is no place for this in politics.
Did you report it to the Police? As a SNP member, I know such behaviour would deserve and get expulsion from the party. Many SNP activists have been assaulted and spat upon in the past by our opponents and we do not tolerate such behaviour, by our members or to our members.
As far as living on your knees, is that not what you were doing for 8 years when being Labour's lackey's?
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#55 bawsupoantheslates :
Because it is all the unionists can do as they have no real vision for Scotland. We are well capable of handling it. As somebody said recently, "Bring it on".
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#33 "We seem to have an SNP government in Scotland, that's what they have decided to call themselves, and i have no quarrel with that. If the SNP government want Independence and the people want a referendum........... What is the problem? Only the SNP government can deliver a referendum, they believe they have popular demand for that, who else's permission do they need?"
The permission of opposition MSPs, since they don't have a majority and therefore can't force a referendum through without the support of at least one of the other major parties. The Tories and Lib Dems are set against it, and nobody (including most Labour MSPs) knows what Labour's position is any more.
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SoutarJohnny
I was also surprised at Question Time last night. I presume that the BBC select the audience on some formulaic basis (perhaps to represent UK voting patterns, with some variation when outside England).
I have long been concerned about Dimbleby's chairing. His feeds to selected panellists are unfortunately common, but what was unusual, this time, was his allowance of multiple long interventions from a few of the audience.
I don't suggest that the BBC is partisan (only that network News/Current Affairs is London-centric, and often guilty of lazy journalism), but Question Time would suggest that Dimbleby should follow Jack, Wendy, and Nichol into oblivion!
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Here here scot2010,
The sooner the people of Scotland get to choose their own destiny for all parties concerned the better, even if it was decided against independence at least it would have been democratically chosen by the people and not by Westminster.
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Re #60 from bawsupoantheslates
Spot on, although I'm inclined to believe that the timing balance may be tipping slightly. With NuLabour trying as hard as they can to commit political suicide, the SNP might be better to try going for the referendum before the UK general election rather than after it.
Any time before, and the case for breaking away completely from Brown's lunacy is pretty strong.
After it, Cameron may have to offer an improved federal solution to maintain the Union.
I'd prefer the latter myself, but that's beside the point.
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Agreed Brownedov,
Will be interesting to see the working relationship between Cameron and Salmond. Despite what people think of the SNP they would want an amicable split as there still has to be a close relationship between the countries
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Re #54:
The Scottish Government recently gave the fishermen £700,000. I suppose that's not a fortune, in government spending terms, though it would be enough to keep the Royal Scottish Academy of Music and Drama undiminished.
Priorities, priorities. I'd have gone for the actors myself. They do more for Scotland on the world stage.
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#61 Brownedov
Fair point but it's impossible to say when that General Election might be. We could not leave it to the uncertainty of G Brown's or New Labour's whim. We have a plan and am sure we will stick to it.
As far as the federal solution you favour. On the surface sounds reasonable, but has major problems when you dig deeper. Who control's the armed forces? Who decides on macroeconomic policy? Plus other issues
The fact is that federal solutions only work when there are several similar sized states that can balance each other out, such as the US. England has 55m people. The rest of the UK has about 9m. It would be impractical and unfair for a federal parliament not to reflect this. Therefore we have a situation where English issues dominate, which is not much better than the current situation. Let's be best friends with England but not married to them. Independence is the only practical solution for both countries, in my opinion
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Re #64 from scot2010:
"Fair point but it's impossible to say when that General Election might be. We could not leave it to the uncertainty of G Brown's or New Labour's whim. We have a plan and am sure we will stick to it."
Understood. There's the issue of getting the SP vote through, too, which won't be clear at least until we see who gets the NuLab and LibDem leaderships. I think the SNP were quite right to have promised it for 2010 and to be sticking to their promise on the basis that any earlier and there would be no track record to go on. I'm simply saying that external influences may turn out to make that non-optimal from your point of view.
"The fact is that federal solutions only work when there are several similar sized states that can balance each other out, such as the US. England has 55m people. The rest of the UK has about 9m. It would be impractical and unfair for a federal parliament not to reflect this."
You have a point. But Rhode Island must have felt pretty tiny compared to the others and Appenzell Innerrhoden has barely 1% of the population of Zürich yet both cope pretty well with their giant neighbours thanks to fair constitutions. Some would say unfair, because it was Appenzell Innerrhoden that helped deny Swiss females the vote for longer than any European democracy.
I'm not saying that it would be easy to devise a fair constitution for a federal UK but believe it would be worth exploring to avoid duplication in basic areas like defence and border control.
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#65 Brownedov
On Referendum. Yep you're right it does depend on SP putting it through. But if blocked, gives SNP wonderful PR in 2011 SP elections. Given likelihood of Tory Uk Govt by 2010, shouldn't be hard to win. Anyway, after recent history, who knows what other SP parties position will be later this year never mind by 2010
On federal solution. 2 examples you quoted, first Rhode Island; currently part of US of 50 states so is analogous to EU where states balance each other, and Scotland would no way be smallest. If you're talking about original 13 US states, then times are very different from 1776.
On second example, not familiar with Swiss setup, but sounds fairly disfunctional. The tail should never wag the dog. We need good and fair relations with our only neighbour, resentment of Scotland getting undue influence would hardly engender that. So we are again back to the disparity in sizes, with 1 country having 10times the population.
Enjoying the debate with you, these ideas need explored over the next 2-3 years
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#66 scot2010
Point taken re blocking as wonderful PR in 2011, but somehow I don't think the SP unionists are quite that stupid, although with NuLabour you never know. The Tories were pretty stupid between '97 and '07, but I think they're waking up again and I would not underestimate them for 2010.
Cameron is smart and hungry for power. He probably doesn't care much personally about the union but to break it would look bad to his backwoodsmen so I suspect he'll be very keen to offer an attractive deal to save it in some form or other.
My point re Appenzell Innerrhoden vs Zuerich isn't that the tail wags the dog - it doesn't - but that the tail drags the dog. By that, I mean that substantial change of the Swiss constitution (like women's suffrage) needs virtual unanimity to proceed and so it takes longer to happen.
All the more important to get the constitution rightish in the first place, of course.
Try the link in my #22 if you want to understand the details.
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Spend more time with the family? Is Nicol and the media having a laugh?
The SP finishes at 17:00 and the MSP's within it have a holiday entitlement that can only be matched by teachers.
Parliament is now in recess. There is ample time to spend with ones family.
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Lets applaud Nicol for resigning as Fib Dem leader. The reasons dont matter - he had to go for several reasons.
It will force a leadership contest - a particularly divisive one I hope - pointless really as they will be spilling blood over a part that has shot its bolt and has been found out.
It will of course give the press and media something to fill up those empty pages in the late summer months.
It will no doubt entertain those of us who wish nothing but ill for the perfidious parasitic Fib Dems.
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Brian:
Maybe he was truly wants to spend more time at home with his family; and the job requirements dictate to him his hours and responsibilities....
~Dennis Junior~
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