Outbreak control
Challenge ahead for Nicola Sturgeon as she prepares to update MSPs this afternoon on the multiple deaths from Clostridium Difficile at the Vale of Leven hospital.
The health secretary has to address and rebut suggestions that she knew about the problem earlier than has been suggested. It seems certain she will announce an independent inquiry.
Tricky one for opposition MSPs too. It is entirely legitimate to question ministers very closely and persistently about their knowledge and role with respect to this outbreak.
Such scrutiny is one of the core roles of any parliament alongside legislation and debate. A governing executive must be held to account - and that is a job for elected politicians.
Partisan consequences
However, MSPs must be careful to avoid sounding as if the pursuit of a political rival takes priority over rooting out the essential facts. They must be careful not to stray over the line.
Where people have died, it does not do to sound over-eager about the potential partisan consequences.
I feel certain MSPs on the governing and opposition sides will rise to that varied challenge.
I'm 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~15~RS~)
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What exactly is the challenge Brian?
One presumes that the hospital knew about it first, and took action to investigate and erradicate the problem at the local level.
Then the health secretary is informed about events, and has to investigate the circumstances before making a wider announcement, and before any wider ranging action can be taken.
Any talk of a "challenge" is doing exactly what you say shouldn't be done in your third last paragraph.
Hopefully the opposition are all adult and professional enough to work with the government to resolve this issue as quickly as possible, or will it decend into a Trump-ed up style fiasco of a parliamentary enquiry again to try to throw enough mud at Nicola Sturgeon so that it might stick.
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HughEdinburgh - "Hopefully the opposition are all adult and professional enough to work with the government to resolve this issue as quickly as possible"
But then this is the opposition we're talking about it ...
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One can only hope that an independent inquiry will resolve this matter to the satisfaction of all concerned, let us remind ourselves of the Wendygate/ Electoral Commision affair, and the unsatisfactory report in respect of illegal donations.
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In line with the bbc web-site on how to address people, I now lower my self to that level, well Taylor you should ask the bbc to take your own advice, On holyrood live the bbc reporter doing the light-hearted item on cycling running after health minister went on to say should you not have been faster off your mark on (C.diff) . Well before you point fingers
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After a trip to the Vale earlier this year and after catching an infection ( Not C Diff or MRSA) I would say its down the the staff being completely demoralised and a severe lack of cleaners. I did not see one cleaner while I was undergoing treatment at the Vale.
The staff need greater support and should not be made to feel like the ugly stepchild as NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde frequently makes them feel like.
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So she knew - which is as it should be. Presumably there are (after all, this isn't the first outbreak) measures in place to deal with it. Fine. So the cleanliness is still an issue, we all know that and presumably people are working on it. So she had the good sense to talk to the families in private. What do people expect, for Nicola to show up with a bucket and mop and make a bit media statement before the families have been dealt with??
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I was disappointed at how evasive Shona Robison this morning when questioned on when the Health Minister knew about the scale of the outbreaks.
It seemed remarkably defensive.
Nicola Sturgeon certainly knew several days before, the health board made their announcement.
There were whispers in West Dunbartonshire well before that was made and I have no doubt the local press were asking questions.
However, I fail to see what difference four days makes.
Maybe she could have pressed Greater Glasgow and Clyde harder, for all we know she did, but still the damage was done.
22 people were still dead at the time - although perhaps the 23rd may have been luckier.
The big question is why did the health board take so long to act? - why was it only last week that the infection control team was notified?
They knew there had been over 50 cases and on 8 of the 23 that died it would have said cause of death Clostridium difficile and it would be mentioned on the other eight it helped kill.
Someone somewhere dropped the ball. And I think Ms Sturgeon has let the Board off easy.
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Brian:
Question: What was the outbreak? What kind of disease?
I think that she should announced an inquiry.
thanks.
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Today, I had to wait in an NHS hospital's day unit for an hour or so. I watched the comings and goings. The ward door I was behind required that everybody pushed the same button to open it. This button was pressed by patients, doctors, cleaners and refuse collectors in gloves. I also wondered how often the badges and their chains are disinfected. Staff may have clean clothes every day but they transfer their badge.
Why in this day and age when for 20 pounds I can buy an passive infrared switch to open the door when people walked up to it do hospitals still share their germs in such as way?
I also observed a succession of doctors breaking stethoscope rules and the "keep your arms free of clothing from the elbows down rule" (Some were rolling their jumpers up and down with their hands to obey the rule which seems a nonsense.) I can name the hospital but it would be unfair.)
I also noticed the handles of the doors and that of the drug trolley, the cleaning trolley, wheel chairs, beds and ambulance stretchers and the seeming lack of concern about moving from patient to patient and touching the handles with hands or gloves.
The hospital concerned does not have a good MRSA or CDiff position. I wonder why!
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Just watched the Newsnight coverage -I'm a bit lost around the conspiracy angle on this. If Jackie Baillie's local newspaper knew-didn't they tell her?...she says they've been following it for some time. Why didn't she go public and call the Health Board to account? Too much politicking ( from everyone) not enough addressing the issues.
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Revised to my earlier comments!
Why can't the health authorities, afford to get simple cleaning supplies...and clean the hospitals.
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Just a question for clarity is this Jackie Baillie an MSP?
If Jackie Baillie is an MSP then she appears to be failing in her position as a representative of the people she is supposed to represent.
Likewise had she been providing goods and services and collection income revenue from the taxes that those people she represents, she is not fit for purpose.
The Vale has a record of failure second to none, the Health Board likewise all the shouting and bawling from MSP’s is of no doubt in my mind a cover for their inadequacies in the past.
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BBC Scotland are simply speculating on unsubstantiated allegations being made by the Labour party. For BBC Scotland to allow air time to politicians like Jackie Baillie is to trade in tragedy at this juncture is totally unnecessary and an intrusion into personal grief.
If BBC Scotland want to investigate a political story on the issue of hospital cleanliness. Then they can no look further than those who work at the Vale of Leven hospital who have been complaining for years of the situation there.
Jackie Baillie is the local MSP, she would have been aware of such complaints. What did she do to raise this matter with the health authority, the local unions and the Labour/LibDem executive who were in power during that period?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Brian, you really must have a word with your colleagues at BBC Radio Scotland (Good Morning Scotland). The reporter this morning who was interviewing the daughter of a CDificile victim at Vale of Leven hospital 'suggested' to her that she would probably be wanting a full public enquiry. She of course obliged and since then the news headlines have been that a victim's relative is calling for a public enquiry. Surely the BBC reports the news not makes it. I am appalled by this kind of journalism.
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If Jackie Baillie devoted as much time to her consituency as she does defending Wendy Alexander and trying to undermine the SNP, this tragedy would probably have been at least addressed.
Prevention is better than the cure.....excuse the pun.
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afternoon , i have 3 questions that no journalist has yet asked. at what point in this sorry affair did the local MSP become aware of the situation ? and what if anything did she do about it? did she move quickly to assist her constituents or did she sit on the info in order to gain some cheap political points? times and dates please oh and e-mails are not acceptable.
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The BBC Scotland headline "No public inquiry into bug deaths" is completely misleading. There will be, as promised by the SNP government, as initially reported by the BBC Scotland, and laterally called for by the Labour party, an "independent inquiry by medical experts".
This is an attempt by BBC Scotland to politically hype-up this tragedy and apportion blame in the manner of tabloid newspaper. I note too that Scotland's broadsheets do not see this as their lead political story. As such creative journalism of this type by BBC Scotland is to be deplored.
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minuend- the BBC in Scotland are not the only ones who have managed to place the art of misleading headlines at the top of the agenda. our 2 so called quality broadsheets are competing with the bbc to see how many they can fit in and how sensational they can make them and get away with it.
journalists in scotland? - "i've seen more spine in a group of jellyfish"
i posted another comment but it seems to have not made it. you obviously didn't like what i said, sorry brian.
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It's important, politically, to know who knew what, and when. And what solutions are proposed. But politicians will never clean a hospital. (It would do some of them good to have a try).
Just about everyone wants Matrons back in charge. And sisters calling the shots in every ward. Staff nurses would ensure that every patient was clean, fed and comfortable. And that the floors were clean.
With all due respect, catering staff do not have the time, the commitment or the know-how to convince a recalcitrant old buddy to eat her dinner.
It's also time to get rid of the trained nurses who rule the roost in management circles, but who have not seen a patient in 20 years. They can tell you the price of everything and the value of nothing. And they are very highly paid for not much. Get them back on the wards. Most would need retraining.
At the lower end of the nursing scale, today's university-trained nurses just don't have a background of emptying bedpans and changing soiled linen. The old school call them "the too-posh-to-wash brigade" with degrees in everything except mucking in.
The pay is quite good nowadays, so no nurse should shy away from the real old-fashioned tasks, like removing false teeth and cleaning out mouths.
On cleaning, the maids are poorly paid, largely unappreciated (unlike in the old days) and therefore many simply go through the motions between smoking breaks, because they lack motivation. And who can blame them?
So it doesn't matter what Nicola or Wendy fight over, it's all down to people on the ground. And whether by money or better management, they need to be motivated.
These comments, strictly non-party political, will enrage some people. But with inside knowledge and no axe to grind I will ignore any squeals.
Dirty hospitals are a symptom of deeper problems in the NHS heirarchy.
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At least part of the solution is for the media to cease using the ridiculous, moronic expression 'bug' to refer to deadly pathogens. Clostridium difficile is a bacterium, not a 'bug'.
I have my doubts about the older generation's belief in 'bringing back Matron'. It's not as if there's a supply of stern women ready to be defrosted from cryogenic suspension and distributed onto the wards. Were there antibiotic resistant bacteria in the days of Matron?
Plus, what do you call a male Matron? Patron?
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Matron or Patron? The name is immaterial - all we need is someone - anyone - to take personal responsibility. As I said, it's down to individuals and their own motivation, professionalism and commitment. Politicians will never clean our hospitals. Florence Nightingale was a deeply flawed woman, but she believed in herself and what she was trying to do. Although her image was romanticised, her legacy exists, just, in corners of the NHS.
I repeat, Nicola and Wendy can take a running jump for all I care. They are here-today-gone-tomorrow politicians.
The health service needs quality people in charge, and we - as a nation - are just not turning out the successors to all the great Scots names that the older generation can list. For hospitals, read schools, banks, businesses, etc. etc.
Scotland plc is just not doing it, and it has little to do with our political incompetents.
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Brian:
My own advice, is to get cleaning supplies; and clean the hospital wards from top to bottom and also, advised everyone to wash your hands....
~Dennis Junior~
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