Chill winds
During election time, the slew of press releases and diary markers dropping into the inbox becomes even more fevered than usual. Like old Sisyphus, if he'd had access to Outlook Express that is, no sooner have you opened/closed/forwarded/deleted than another one pops up.
That can make it hard to see the wood from the trees but two things landed yesterday that deserve more thought than usual.
The Political Unit's number one anorak and I put our heads together and thought, talked, then thought some more. This blog entry is the result, one that might even appeal to Scottish friends who've taken to dropping by this blog during the election campaign. Croeso i chi.
So what were these two things?
The first was from the think tank the Institute for Public Policy Research, with details of a study by Professor David Bell entitled "Devolution in a Downturn".
He warns of a potential public opinion backlash in England, since, according to his reasoning, devolved budgets will be better protected from the public sector cuts to come.
Firstly, he says, devolved administrations' budgets will be relatively well sheltered from the worst cuts that fall on England, since the bulk of the block grant going to them is based on health and education spending which the Conservative and Labour parties have promised to protect. Health and education funding make up more than half of the 'comparable' spending programmes in England upon which the value of the grant is based.
Secondly, the so-called 'Barnett squeeze' (which means that over time the Barnett formula is supposed to bring about equal spending per head in the four nations) goes into reverse if spending cuts are being made. This means -according to him - that the proportionate fall in spending in the devolved administrations will be lower than that experienced in England.
The second was some copy sent through from my BBC colleagues in Scotland, from First Minister's Questions in Holyrood yesterday.
Discussing the a study he'd commissioned into the impending cuts, here's what Alex Salmond had to say:
"Based on the chancellor's most recent budget statement, in broad terms, the analysis shows potential real-term reductions in Scottish Government expenditure of 3 per cent per annum between 2011-12 and 2014-15. Projecting further forward, the analysis forecasts a period of up to 12 to 15 years before 2009-10 levels of expenditure are reached again. That represents a cumulative loss of between £22 billion to £35 billion of public spending over that period, depending on what assumptions are made in the forecast."
He agreed with an intervention with a fellow MSP that this was "chilling".
Ouch. While the range of areas covered by the formula is wider in Scotland than it is in Wales, the rough rule of thumb is usually - follow the money - for Holyrood, see Cardiff Bay.
The sharper eyed among you will have noticed that Mr Salmond and Professor Bell are somewhat at odds on this. As the Scottish First Minister warns of agonies to come, the Professor warns that in his his view "public opinion may not tolerate a situation whereby the devolved administrations, and Scotland in particular, is perceived to be suffering less pain than England."
He cites previous IPPR research showing that the number of people in England who think that Scotland gets 'more than its fair share of funding' has almost doubled in recent years (from 22% in 2003 to 40% in 2009) which, suggests the IPPR, shows growing public unease about the distribution of money. This, the professor warns, is only likely to grow if spending disparities widen during an era of cuts.
Well that's the theory. So how can that English backlash be avoided? Reform the formula, is the simple answer. There's cross party consensus on that, to the extent that all think it needs to be overhauled, but much less in the way of consensus as to exactly how that should happen.
Mr Salmond's analysis, of course, is based on the Barnett formula as it currently exists. It's pretty much widely acknowleged that any substantial reform of the way the system operates - most obviously, introducing a needs-based element - would mean a reduction in the money coming to Scotland. Assuming that's in the region of a couple of billion a year, then the prediction coming from the Scottish Executive analysts gets a whole lot more chilling.
The joint press conference between Plaid Cymru and the SNP just before the election starting gun was fired received most attention for the statement that they would offer their support for a minority administration on a case-by-case basis, a sort of cash in hand deal. But it's worth looking a bit more closely at the agreement itself - '4 Wales, 4 Scotland'
Point one is as follows - Fair funding for Wales and Scotland.
But what does that actually mean?
Mr Salmond explains, "As it currently stands, the UK Government can and does slash the Scottish and Welsh budgets with impunity. The Barnett formula has let Scotland and Wales down. That's why in Scotland we need fiscal autonomy and Wales requires a fairer funding deal."
Putting aside for a moment the substantial increase in devolved budgets over the past decade, which most fair-minded people would put in exactly the opposite category to "slash", I spoke to a senior Plaid Cymru figure a couple of days after that announcement and voiced surprise that agreement on a joint Plaid-SNP fair funding had been so easy to reach, given the potential impact on the Scottish budget. "Fair funding is a banner we can both work with" came the response. A colleague had a similar chat. "Yes, we were pretty surprised too," was the answer he got. "But they really want fiscal autonomy, and if that means, y'know, losing a couple of billion, maybe, well there you go..."
Y'know, losing a couple of billion. Hmm.
Our parliamentary correspondent David Cornock, interviewing the Tory Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury Phillip Hammond on a visit to Wales earlier this week, got chatting about precisely this. Mr Hammond told him that in private preparatory talks in the event that the Tories take office in Westminster, Mr Salmond had used words to the effect that "the Barnett formula must stay."
So where does this leave Wales? Well, it doesn't have the generous over-funding that Scotland has historically enjoyed but it will probably see similar levels of budget cuts (or to use a current much-used euphemism, "disinvestment"). So we're starting from a low base and getting lower.
Point one of 4 Wales 4 Scotland sounds simple, but the Treasury, on past form, won't be shy about driving a wedge between the two competing demands of more money for Wales and maintaining the Scottish budget. If the IPPR's English backlash - if it materialises - is to be headed off, that will, if anything, mean equalising the spend per head between England and the devolved nations.
It has to be said that, to echo politicians in Scotland, things are looking pretty chilly.
I'm Betsan Powys, BBC Wales' political editor. I'll be blogging the inside track on 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~45~RS~)
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Betsan
Thanks for the welcome - though it's a sad day when we are more welcone in BBC Wales than BBC North Britain! (for our Welsh friends this is because the BBC Scottish blogs were closed for comments just before the BBC Trust announcement on the debates).
I'll have a look a little later at the detail, but there can be no doubt that the Welsh have been discriminated against in the Barnett formula.
It would be churlish for me to suggest that this is partly because an independent political class, structure and system continued in Scotland after we agreed to let England & Wales join us in a Union - while Wales remained a subject nation whose political leadership had been deliberately destroyed by your eastern neighbour.
It would be churlish - but I am a churl!
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Careful oldnat. Some chap called Bryn will jump in that comment to add to his anti-English bile.
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2. Denno
"anti-English bile"
We've had the odd one like that put his head above the parapet up north. We don't need the Brits to shoot them down. We do it ourselves!
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"one that might even appeal to Scottish friends who've taken to dropping by this blog during the election campaign."
Betsan,
Many thanks for the welcome of us "Scots in Exile". We have enjoyed stopping by here, and no doubt once we get our freedom of speech back from the BBC Scotland Blog Moderators, we will pop in a little more frequently as we may have in the past. Certainly we have always been close to the Welsh in our "supposed" hatred of the English, and hopefully the SNP and Plaid can work closely in future to bring about clear democratic change in both countries ( or provences of England if you are a foreigner).
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"Y'know, losing a couple of billion. Hmm."
But fiscal autonomy doesn't mean working within those revenue streams that Westminster decided to give us access to!
It's a matter of all revenue from the legal entity of Scotland. That includes the Scottish sector of the seas - not just the hydrocarbons, but the green electricity as well. Do you have an equivalent in Wales to GERS (Government Expenditure and Revenue in Scotland).
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2009/06/18101733/0
Originally created by the Tories to demonstrate that Scotland was too poor and weak to survive, it has been progressively improved. It now demonstrates that the Scottish structural deficit has been similar to that of the UK as a whole for many years. And that's with us paying our population share of expenditure on WMD, illegal wars, ID cards etc etc.
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Betsan,
Thanks for the welcome. A few of us have lurked past before but as we are exiled from the North, Y Ddraig Goch ddyry gychwyn
Two suggestions that at least I would be interested in if you are looking for topics.
In Scotland, we really only have the one constituency where the language is alive - The Western Isles (Na H-Eileanan An Iar), where the bulk of the native Gaelic population resides. Anybody standing in that constituency more or less has to be a native speaker. Is there a line in Wales ? Where does it fall ? Do the "Welsh-speaking" areas favour one party or another, or can an English "Import" parachuted in with no background in the tounge survive and do well simply on Party banner ?
Wales had one of the two "true" non-party MPs in the old Parliament - Dai Davies in Blaenau Gwent. Is he going back to London ?
Thanks for the taking the time to read our posts.
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Alex Salmond is simply making use of the fact that most of the Scottish population don't understand how Barnett works and probably don't care. He is already building on their job redundancy fears and is intent upon making them feel 'badly done by', thus strengthening his argument for independence. About 2 years ago the 'Economist' warned about the possibility that the English (only about 90% of the population) would wake up and realise that they had been taken to the cleaners by Scotland (hopefully not Wales). It would appear that the inevitable serious cut in public spending and the likelihood of a double dip recession is going to create conditions which will severely challenge the Union. Our country needs politicians like Alex Salmond like a hole in the head.
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The Barnett formula is long overdue replacing, remember it came in the 70s as a stop gap measure.
Most parts of the UK I have been to feel hard done by, believe that other parts are getting a better deal and that their needs are being overlooked.
However it seems to me that the biggest single problem is that trust in politicans about finance in particular is currently so low that it will not be successful. Who is anyone going to trust to be an honest broker on a true needs based approach to public funding. Far too much in the public sector spending figures seems to be guesswork when it comes to the allocation of numbers to regions.
My gut feeling is that if a truly honest assessment were done then it is very doubful that the results would be politically acceptable and then there would be a great deal of fudging. Before we know it we would be back to another mess like the Barnett formula but slightly different.
Even if the figures come back as parity between the four nations (unlikely I know) then England itself will have serious issues to contemplate in respect of the massive variation between the level of expenditure in London, the North and the South East. Ken Livinston was demanding higher funding for London and Boris Johnston has continued the same line. This despite London getting the highest per capita funding of all areas of England.
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7. Ian
"Our country"
Now which country would that be? I doubt if it's Scotland or Wales. If you mean England or GB or UK (they are so easily confused) then I'd agree with you. You really don't want effective politicians like Ieuan Wyn Jones or Salmond to exist, do you?
As far as the economic arguments are concerned have a look at GERS, UK descriptors of Identifiable and Non-identifiable expenditure and any equivalent Welsh data and the conclusions are clear.
Scotland gets less of a return than Scotland (including our waters) puts in - but we're generous folk.
Wales gets massively less than it is entitled to in any fair division of rump UK expenditure - as does the North, East and West of England.
Within the UK or EU Union, I have no problem with Scotland providing additional revenue to Wales and the deprived areas of England, to help them regenerate.
The problem is the accretion of resources to London and the South East.
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Betsan
Thank you for your welcome. The big problem with equalisation of per capita spending is the enormous overspend on London. I cannot see this being dispassionately dealt with. It is far too close to home for the "British" political classes, whereas Scotland and Wales are far away countries of whom they know little.
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Erm, i seem to have created a miniature furore on Twitter re Brian Taylor - my original tweet has been retweeted netwide. and is trending on #scotlandspeaks
(i'm @GCEntertainment)
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7. Ian
"About 2 years ago the 'Economist' warned about the possibility that the English (only about 90% of the population) would wake up and realise that they had been taken to the cleaners by Scotland (hopefully not Wales)."
So that would be 2008 total UK pop c61,383,000 100.0%
Scot pop c5,168,500 8.4%
N Ire pop c1,775,000 2.9%
Eng/Wales pop c54,439,500 88.7%
Economists?
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Betsan
Many thanks for the welcome.
I find it strange during this debate on Barnett that there is only one party that is actively promoting that it should be scrapped totally. That is the SNP.
Given that the SNP want to scrap Barnett, and that Scotland is such a drag on our very generous friends south of the border, why are all three of the "London" parties so insistent that Scotland should stay and be part of this wonderful union?
Do you think that there is something the unionists are not telling us?
P.S. I hope that you are paid substantially more than Brian Taylor, I count thats five blog entry's to his one, in the same time scale.
P.P.S. Ian, I do not know if you come from Wales or not, and Wales may need politicians like Alex Salmond like a hole in the head. If so Wales must have some very able politicians. No matter we still need conviction politicians like Alex Salmond in Scotland, and will be happy to keep him. Salmond or Hain? No contest.
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Wow... BBC 10 O'clock news Alan Little just announced that "Westminster pays the bills" for the Scottish NHS!!!
I think perhaps finally I will be submitting a complaint regards misrepresentation. Last time I looked at a payslip I was paying taxes to HMRC.
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14. BlooToon
UH OH - BBC CLANGER!
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Sorry to butt into this inter-Celtic,anti-British love in, of Plaid, SNP and the Rhodri Morgan, Celtic faction of the once British labour party!! …....Surely, it's time for Extremely-Welsh Labour, to come clean? And, promise not to clamour for the votes of the of the English speaking working classes of English descent?
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7. At 9:25pm on 23 Apr 2010, Ian
"that the English (only about 90% of the population) would wake up and realise that they had been taken to the cleaners by Scotland"
Hah! Another one that believes the establishment propaganda. The fact of the matter is that Scotland has been subsidising Westminster for for the last forty years at least. They (Westminster) have lied cheated and decieved to keep this hidden.
And, by the way 100% of the population of Scotland are Scottish. The UK majority may not like Alex Salmond, but Our country, Scotland, need politicians like him.
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16. Jack_Wilkinson
"And, promise not to clamour for the votes of the of the English speaking working classes of English descent?"
Why not? The SNP campaigns for the votes of the English speaking working classes of English descent, and the the votes of the English speaking middle classes of English descent and the the votes of the Urdu speaking working classes of Pakistani descent and .... and .... and .... if they live in Scotland - we a get a lot of them too.
Anything else would be racist. To suggest that those of English descent are somehow not part of the people of Scotland, is not a suggestion I've ever heard in Scotland - on either side of the constitutional divide.
Are you suggesting that someone in Wales, who has an English ancestor at some indeterminate point in the past, should only vote for an English based party on racist grounds?
What funny politics some of you seem to have here. :-)
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@16 Jack
Why sorry? I'm sure that on Betsan's blog as with BwB that if you have any salient point to make that there will be plenty willing to debate with you. As it is I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to say. Are the people of Wales to be segregated in relation to "racial purity"?
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17. X_Sticks
"And, by the way 100% of the population of Scotland are Scottish."
Wrong. 100% of the population of Scotland are "the people of Scotland" (unless they are temporary visitors!)
Whether they are primarily Scottish or not is entirely a matter for each individual.
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Bore Da and Ciamar a tha sibh
The reason that Barnett is not loved by us subsidy junkies is that it actually is not that generous.
When discussed by the Unionists they omit all the infrastructure spending that gets discounted from Barnett calculations. Billions get spend on, usually, South-East and London projects that the rest of the UK, including the revolting devolved bits, pay for.
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Betsan, thanks for your warm welcome to us Scottish refugees. My compliments to you and your "Political Unit's number one anorak". Clear, consise, and insightful political reporting, what a breath of fresh air from the stagnant, stale repressed reporting we get from Bias BC in Scotland. I hope your readers and contributers are thankful to have such a forum.
I think Bell is right, and it will be the English backlash that will provide Scotland with her freedom. Westminster will be forced to tell the truth or lose Scotland from the Union.
I think Scotland would first of all survive and ultimately thrive with full fiscal autonomy, but that must be FULL. Not handouts from the Westminster purse. I worry that Wales might not prosper quite so well, it has had a patchy, slow recovery from Thatchers decimation. Labour has let down both Scotland and Wales. With Scotland out of the Union things would have to improve for Wales, and if we can make a successful Scotland I believe that the north of England would benefit, and I would hope Wales as well.
To continue in this now proven undemocratic union is no longer an option.
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5. oldnat wrote:
"It's a matter of all revenue from the legal entity of Scotland. That includes the Scottish sector of the seas - not just the hydrocarbons, but the green electricity as well."
Aye, and the rest.
Independence.
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20. At 11:25pm on 23 Apr 2010, oldnat wrote:
17. X_Sticks
"And, by the way 100% of the population of Scotland are Scottish."
Wrong. 100% of the population of Scotland are "the people of Scotland" (unless they are temporary visitors!)
Whether they are primarily Scottish or not is entirely a matter for each individual.
You are absolutely correct Oldnat, I've never quite had the hang of English, and I'm just a youngnat, now.
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24. X_Sticks
"I've never quite had the hang of English"
I completely understand. When we use English, we (whether Scots or Gaelic speakers) tend to literally translate the Scots or Gaelic term into English without realising that the connotations or the subtleties that we understand are lost in translation. That often gives the wrong impression to those who aren't Scots.
I imagine that Welsh speakers have the same problem.
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19,
We don't do the 'racial purity' thing in Wales unless you are BNP of course and sadly I fail their test, as I cannot trace my bloodline back to the last Ice Age.
If you live west of Offa's dyke and respect the local culture then congratulations-you're Welsh. As a nation, it's a lot more interesting for having immigrants and personally, I could not imagine growing up in Swansea without the Asian Welsh community feeding me with curry at every opportunity-food heavan.
Commenting on the funding issue Betsan refers to above, Wales is at least £300 million short a year according to independent reports based on fair funding. Plaid asked all the London parties to agree to this increase as a baseline and needless to say, none did. There is clear pressure within these parties not to be seen to be too generous to the 'Celtic fringes', as the rise in English nationalism grows. It's a shame though, that they could not show a little more concern about the poorest parts of England, but what do you expect in such a London centric nation?
On the issue of the BBC in Scotland, things will not be the same for the BBC/EBE after this election, in any of the nations. The decisions they have made to cut Plaid and the SNP out of the UK debate, will influence political thinking on public service broadcasting for many years to come.
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A word to our very welcome guests and political refugees: this is fascinating, so don't take too much notice of Jack, we don't, and like you, no doubt, we don't understand his strange, monotonous ramblings either. It is always the unionists/brit nats who bang on about racial purity - it is their problem, their hang up, because their's is the worst kind of nationalism that the SNP and Plaid have no time for.
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26. ianapharri
"We don't do the 'racial purity' thing in Wales"
I don't think any of us thought that. But that post from Jack Wilkinson seemed really scary!
"On the issue of the BBC in Scotland, things will not be the same for the BBC/EBE after this election, in any of the nations. The decisions they have made to cut Plaid and the SNP out of the UK debate, will influence political thinking on public service broadcasting for many years to come."
There are really only two options for them in the future
1. cut Plaid and the SNP out of the UK debate
2. cut Wales and Scotland out of the UK debate.
I'd settle for the latter!
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27. FoDafydd
Thanks. I was a bit worried that the lack of Welsh posters meant that we were boring you with our "refugee status". We've seen how the UK Government has continually mistreated asylum seekers in Scotland, and I'm glad that we get a better reception in Wales.
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Can I join the rest of my BwB Scottish friends in saying how nice it is for us to receive such a warm welcome in Wales! (BTW - I'm in Virginia).
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Isn't it nice to come to a political blog that doesn't shut down when the Unionist political scene gets a little 'troubled'? The political editor in Scotland is well known for avoiding discussing anything that may show the major Unionist party in Scotland in a bad light. It is now nearly 2 days that Scotland's political editor has had his blog closed for comments. Unless our dear Brian is ill, or has had an extremely important reason for not blogging then one would think that he is deliberately closing his blog to stifle political debate. Normallly, this would be an inconvenience but to do so during a general election seems to me to be verging on being deliberate political mismanagement. What have the BBC in 'Northern Britain' to be frightened of? Democracy? Let's be honest here, it's only political anoraks, like ourselves, who visit political blogs; the majority of the voting public have more important things to do. Unless, of course, those political animals are revealing the lies protrayed by the establishment's political Unionist parties. Surely, if the Union was strong enough the establishment could take a few knocks and still survive? Or could it?
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If the Scots Gnats are so bothered with the BBC, maybe they should create a blog where they could blether away to their hearts content, they might like to invite Fo, real issues of domestic note might then be debated ...
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Re: 32
Stonemason once quoted his grandmother's philosophy of welcome: 'my hearth is your hearth'.
She would be so disappointed with her grandson's attitude to Betsan's Blog's Scottish guests.
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32. Stonemason
"If the Scots Gnats are so bothered with the BBC, maybe they should create a blog where they could blether away to their hearts content, they might like to invite Fo, real issues of domestic note might then be debated ...
"
It's always nice when our opponents show their true colours. Saves us the trouble.
Betsan, thank you for the welcome.
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Mr Jones, its the repetition, even my grandmother would turn the record and play the other side.
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Re: 35
You're a fine one to talk about repetition..
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35. Stonemason
"
Mr Jones, its the repetition, even my grandmother would turn the record and play the other side."
The only repetition I've noticed on this blog is the daily racist british nationalist ranting from Jack Wilkinson and your own hackneyed knee-jerk attacks at every opportunity on anything and everything to do with the national assembly. Ideologically driven, irrational, bitter, humourless and soaked in tabloid rhetoric, the both of you are deeply boring and yes, repetitive. Can you both try and be creative and open hearted for one day at least please? Especially while we have visitors from Scotland. If you can't be nice then you'll have to go to bed without supper. Thanks kids.
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28 (Old Nat),
It just goes to show that we have all sorts in Wales including Jack. The only ones using the Welsh language in such terms are the ones determined to kill it off. There are a few on the other side of the extreme, but they are a dying breed.
Then we have Stonemason. Well, where do I start with this gentleman? I will let you make your own mind up with this one but let me give you a few tips: -
Do not expect a reasoned argument-it's beyond him.
He is in a minority - honest!
It takes all sorts to make a Wales and his Wales is, well, a little odd.
There are worse than him on thsi blog, but not many.
Don't say that you haven't been warned!
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#37, you have obviously not read the Scots gnats transcribed bitterness from "blether" to "betsan", you really need to get out a little more.
I am sure #38 will be similar to your nonsense, I will possibly read it .... or probably not.
Scots gnats not invited!
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I have dropped in once or twice in the past, usually about wee Wales and rugby!
We'll keep a welcome in the hillsides eh Betsan?
Thank you kindly!
We have such a major problem with BBBC Scotland and BBBC in general, misleading, spinning and lying by ommission to the people of Scotland.
You have acquired some great Scottish debaters on your site and I know there are some great Welsh ones too.
Enjoy!
There are of course the usual unthinking name callers with no legitimate comments, you just have to ignore them.
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@27
I am married to a girl from the Valleys and visit regularly. The welcome from the people of Wales is always warm and welcoming. Indeed the similarities between the Valleys and my own (Shetland) island roots is noticable. Every community though has members whose frustrations perhaps get ahead of their ability to think them through and clearly express themselves, Scotland and Scottish blogs are no different. Engagement with this element can sometimes feel a thankless task but they have the right to expression as we all do. Their courtesy to engage in constructive dialogue would be welcome but cannot be forced upon them.
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Hello to all our Welsh cousins, (Nationalists and all others too).
I'm pushing on towards 80 years old and I've been an active Scottish Nationalist since before I left school. I've had lots of time to study the financial balance between Scotland and Westminster. Now, before going further, Scotland seeks independence from the Westminster UK Parliament, not from England. However, the hard fact is that as far as funding goes the gigantic, "Fly in the ointment", "Elephant in the room", "Spanner in the Works", or whatever you care to call it, is without doubt, that England, and only England, is funded in a different manner from the other three UK countries. So we all get a transparent, capped, block grant. England alone is funded directly from the uncapped, opaque ,UK coffers. That leaves the English funding system wide open to, shall we call it, "Creative Accounting"?
Not only can they overspend every year but they can, and do, credit to the UK, (aka England), much of the income gained from the other three UK countries. Now just in case you think I'm, (What's the Welsh equivalent for, “Blethering”?). Here are a few of these little accounting tricks.
“Crown estate rents and Income”, adds up to many billions of pounds. It goes right into the UK coffers but there is no allowance made as income from Wales, Northern Ireland or Scotland. So it becomes, (like the, “Extra-Regio North Sea Revenues), UK, (aka, English), income. It cannot even be excused as being done on a per-capita basis as population has no bearing upon it.
So, you may ask, “What is it”. "The Crown Estates", includes all, “Crown Property”, including royal estates, farms, houses, MOD establishments and such as railways, government establishments. However, it also includes the entire foreshore and out to the 12 mile Territorial limits. So every, breakwater, jetty, slipway, harbour, pier, drainage pipe, and so on, must pay rent and/or Royalties to the Crown Estates. Worse still every oil rig, wind turbine, tidal generator and wave generator pays these rents and Royalties. Wales has a l-o-n-g S-h-o-r-e-l-i-n-e. And all those billions of Welsh money goes into the UK, (aka English), coffers. Now have a close look at “Gross operating Surplus”, and the other revenues and taxes paid to the UK coffers by Welsh people with fresh eyes.
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On public finance, we get the usual drivel from the unionists. Wales is too small, too weak, too poor, too incompetent etc. We would starve to death but for the crumbs doled out to us from 'England'. We should be forever grateful for our rescue from penury.
How come then, that Wales is the poorest country in western Europe, and is getting poorer?
Responsibility for that must be borne by successive Westminster governments, both Tory and Labour. Its been a disaster for Wales, and guess what? Its going to get much worse.
We in Wales will be unable to do anything about it. It would take too long to list all the incompetent PM's and Chancellors responsible for the mess we're in after a century of stagnation, decline and decay. Its laughable that they have continuing delusions of grandeur that they're players on the world stage, fighting expensive illegal wars here and there. Wherever the British have been, they've left the place in a shambles.
Wales, as well as Scotland needs full fiscal autonomy, and a Parliament or Senedd with powers necessary to generate our country's economy, so that all the wealth isn’t sucked into London and the south east of England.
We will have no dignity as a people until that happens. I for one don't want begrudging measly handouts, and a dependent low wage economy, with our young people having to join an army killing civilians in mud huts in a country far poorer even than Wales.
On the matter of dignity. Our Scottish friends may not realise how humiliating it is to have the union flag on which Wales isn't represented flying over our public buildings here in Wales.
Its also humiliating and insulting to have a string of English MPs like Redwood appointed as Secretaries of State for Wales. The Tories have the MP for Amersham lined up for the job. The present Labour incumbent was parachuted in from South Africa, via London and the Liberal Party, into a safe valleys seat, from where he pronounces on how we should vote and on whether the Assembly should have this power or not, and how we might vote in a referendum.
Wales is also an invisible nation on the BBC.... it was a BBC Trust report that said that! And what have they done about it?
#38 Stonemason
Thanks for the link to your rather turgid and uninspiring blog. Your most recent comment though, contains this GEM when referring to the prospect of a Tory win on May 6:
'..we anticipate rapid changes in the British Constitution to minimise future abuses of power by our representatives..'
What is your 'Dave' going to do about the electoral system which is a complete abuse of power by which Tory and Labour politicians govern perpetually on a minority of the votes cast?
I hear he proposes to make all votes equal by 'equalising' constituencies. What's he proposing to do about the 60% of votes which end up with NO representation in Parliament?
Is he going to roll back the draconian Terrorism and RIPA legislation post 2001, which has largely been unnecessary and is a threat to all our liberties, and the huge expansion in the security services?
What about the CCTV cameras, and even worse the thousands of new static ANPR cameras right now being stationed secretly all over the UK, recording the movements of every vehicle passing them, storing the information centrally in Buckinghamshire for two years? Are the Tories going to remove them? I've spotted two within three miles of my own home in the last fortnight
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/03/police_anpr/
Is Dave going to repeal or amend the Human Rights Act? Its the only piece of legislation which gives some (albeit rather weak) rights to UK citizens and some protection from abuse of government power?
Actually, Stonemason, the Tory record on political reform has been abysmal. What have they done about the Lords, or about the dreadful practice of taking huge sums from multi-millionaires?
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#33 CA Jones
"She would be so disappointed with her grandson's attitude to Betsan's Blog's Scottish guests."
Thanks for the welcome, and to Betsan too, of course.
I missed this last night having become absorbed in a previous thread and forgetting the novelty of having multiple threads open to comment, but belated congratulations to Betsan also for getting to the nub of Thursday's FMQs without the "Salmond accused ..." lines which Brian seldom seems unable to resist.
Those missing the knockabout element which Brian always seems to inject could do worse than reading the CalMerc's Rab on the subject in his Carbon emissions a smokescreen for the main political event reminding us also that: "Eck pointed out that his SNP administration was building a record 7,000 socially rented homes, including 2,000 council houses compared to the six – “that’s right, the total of six” – built under Labour. As for right-to-buy, it was precisely because of this that councils had stopped building council houses as there didn’t seem any point."
I'd appreciate our Welsh friends letting us know whether this kind of knockabout, always accompanied by deafening opposition catcalls, is normal in the Welsh Assembly and what's happening re social housing and PFI/PPP funding in Wales nowadays.
Rab is also worth reading on the "leader" debates, with his tough on chefs and the causes of chefs. Particularly relevant was his: "I couldn’t believe the stuff about Broon doing better than last week. I’ve noticed Scottish people see things differently from our comrades in Englandshire. We can tell when a fellow Celt is being phoney."
Does Wales view it differently?
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#6. At 9:02pm on 23 Apr 2010, Chiefy1724:
Err! Excuse me, Chiefy1724, please do not mislead our Welsh cousins, and I'm not looking for an arguament, but, "Sam o is spak wir ain tune o wir ain Lallans leid", (Some of us speak our own dialect of our own lowlands language).
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#16. At 10:50pm on 23 Apr 2010, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:"Sorry to butt into this inter-Celtic,anti-British love in, of Plaid, SNP and the Rhodri Morgan, Celtic faction of the once British labour party!! …....Surely, it's time for Extremely-Welsh Labour, to come clean? And, promise not to clamour for the votes of the of the English speaking working classes of English descent"?
So you start out with anti-United Kingdom but end up with anti-English? I see the people of Wales also have the scourge of the, "Britclone".
The nationalist parties do not discriminate against people of English, (or any other country's), descent. They speak for ALL the people resident in Wales and Scotland. The fault you see is within yourself - you cannot tell the difference between England and Britain.
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#44 Brownedov
Thanks for the link 'tough on chefs'... nearly split my sides laughing.
'I'd appreciate our Welsh friends letting us know whether this kind of knockabout, always accompanied by deafening opposition catcalls, is normal in the Welsh Assembly..'
It isn't a parliament. Regrettably dry and boring. One could write a book about how pathetic an institution it is. It has so little power it doesn't attract the right people, imo, second or third raters for the most part. Of course, what can one expect of a Labour creation, run by Labour? It was never meant to make Wales a better place, simply to allow Labour to continue making the decisions when the other lot held sway in the 'Big Place'.
At least your place looks and sounds as if it has SOME power and a few capable politicians such as Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon. It can actually make laws on a whole ramp of domestic policy, including criminal justice and policing. The Welsh couldn't be trusted to do things like that... they have to be left to the competent politicians like Blunkett, Johnson, Straw (such an apt name imo), Reid, Clarke, Jacqui Smith... I can't list anymore of them as I have to think about keeping my lunch down.
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#42 Auld Bob
"Creative Accounting .... Crown estate rents and Income ... Extra-Regio North Sea Revenues" &
#43 Bryn_Teilo
"Wales, as well as Scotland needs full fiscal autonomy, and a Parliament or Senedd with powers necessary to generate our country's economy, so that all the wealth isn’t sucked into London and the south east of England."
Excellent posts both and entirely interlinked. The Barnett formula was intended precisely to exclude these issues from public view, and any attempt to "tinker" with "needs based" assessment as at least two of the Tweedles wish to do can only open up yet another and - to unionists - extremely distasteful and wriggly can of worms. The Calman commission was instructed to "review the provisions of the Scotland Act 1998 in the light of experience and to recommend any changes to the present constitutional arrangements that would enable the Scottish Parliament to serve the people of Scotland better, improve the financial accountability of the Scottish Parliament, and continue to secure the position of Scotland within the United Kingdom" but in doing so entirely ignored these issues and could not even bring itself to admit that "the present constitutional arrangements" of the United Kingdom itself might need something of a makeover.
Scotland will likely need to make the running here because unlike the daft English notion of "the supremacy of parliament" imposed on Wales, it has the Claim of Right Act 1689 effectively renewed in the Claim of Right 1989 (signed by 58 of Scotland's 72 MPs and 7 of Scotland's 8 MEPS including Duff Gordon) which acknowledges the supremacy of the people of Scotland.
That the people of Scotland are less than happy with the present arrangements is clear from the 2009 NatCen/ScotCen Scottish Social Attitudes survey. Snippets of that are available in their 14 January 2010 press release, which shows [Table 7] that by large margins Scots want most spending decisions to be made outwith Westminster, viz:
77% The levels of welfare benefits
72% The National Health Service
85% Schools
64% The level of taxes
The only area with a majority wanting to retain Westminster control was Defence and foreign affairs, with only 35% wanting control removed. That, of course, may change if the unionists continue with "son of Trident".
NB for the confused: NatCen is not code for the 4 Wales 4 Scotland allied HQ but the "National Centre for Social Research", a UK institution based in London which claims to be "Britain's leading centre for independent social research".
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#32. At 06:53am on 24 Apr 2010, Stonemason wrote:"If the Scots Gnats",
I see the people of Wales also have their share of the utterly childish and ignorant, "Argumentum ad Hominem", users. Do not these people realise that the use of such tactics, (whether abusive or circumstantial), means they have lost the debate before it even starts?
Just for this particular abuser - Argumentum ad Hominem is the fallacy of attacking the character, or circumstances, of an individual who is advancing a statement, or an argument, instead of trying to disprove the truth of the statement, or the soundness of the argument. Often the, "Argumentum ad Hominem", is characterized simply as a personal attack. So, sorry Stonemason, you lose.
BTW: There is little point in holding political debate when all the people involved are of like mind. Unlike yourself, we, "Scots Gnats", do welcome people who do not agree with us. Furthermore, the only racist type attacks I witness on this blog are against both Welsh & Scottish posters and I must conclude these are from people who do not know the difference between England & Britain or the UK.
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#35. At 07:56am on 24 Apr 2010, Stonemason wrote:"Mr Jones, its the repetition, even my grandmother would turn the record and play the other side".
Indeed, Stonemason, it is the repetition. The repetition that has been going on in Westminster since 1707. The establishment have brainwashed the United Kingdom ever since. They preach, for example, that Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are subsidised by, "England", and that we are all workshy dole drawers. Well here is a bit of news for you from the Government's own figures. There are more unemployed people in the London Boroughs than it the rest of the UK put together. Even on a percentage basis the London Boroughs have been the most consistent unemployement blackspot since before WWI. I kid you not as the the official figures show. The three lowest unemployment areas in the UK are in Scotland and the three worst are in England. Wales are well placed in relation to England too.
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#47 Bryn_Teilo
"Thanks for the link 'tough on chefs'... nearly split my sides laughing."
You're most welcome.
"Of course, what can one expect of a Labour creation, run by Labour? It was never meant to make Wales a better place, simply to allow Labour to continue making the decisions when the other lot held sway in the 'Big Place'"
With the arguable exceptions of Donald Dewar and David Steel the "cunning plan" was precisely the same for Holyrood. Scottish experience does indicate that if Labour only put up third-rate candidates for a national assembly or parliament then sooner or later they will lose it. In May 2011, it will be interesting to see whether second-rate Labour ex-MPs wanting a snout back in the trough will be more successful at stemming the woaded hordes.
"At least your place looks and sounds as if it has SOME power and a few capable politicians such as Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon."
Very few in the unionist ranks. Even Aunty Bella is less effective than she was.
"I can't list anymore of them as I have to think about keeping my lunch down."
I hear you cry, and am feeling a little queasy myself.
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Cameron's Beef
So, if we are to start a cull of the subsidised economy it has to start with London; the biggest and most bloated part of Britain by a monumental distance. It is parasitic and holds down everyone else resulting in generations of poverty and emigration.
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I have to apologies for us camping out on your Blog Betsan, our spiritual home of Blabber with Brian is still closed for comment.
If the bbc online Scotland moderation team think we'll calm down by stifling our debate well I have other news for them.
If anyone is missing the dulcit tones of Brian Taylor they can Listen to him and his big debate here
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#52 cynicalHighlander wrote:
'So, if we are to start a cull of the subsidised economy it has to start with London; the biggest and most bloated part of Britain by a monumental distance. It is parasitic and holds down everyone else resulting in generations of poverty and emigration.'
Echoes there of William Cobbett who famously dubbed London, 'the great Wen'. In 'Rural Rides' (1830) he wrote, 'But, what is to be the fate of the great wen of all? The monster, called, by the silly coxcombs of the press, 'the metropolis of the empire?'
What's new?
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#54
I forgot to add that 'wen' is an old English word whose meaning is similar to 'boil' - a festering heap of corruption.
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so the bbc blog in north has gone, Wales on line forum has introduced moderation on our postings ( not in the sport section).
Letters to the western mail have had the comments section removed.
is something untoward happening nationwide, is there a deliberate attempt to stiffle out criticism and opinions.
Looks like it to me.
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oops i see we are told all new members are pre moderated but in the list awaiting moderation are some long standing members.
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Given the shared views of PC and the SNP on Trident renewal, bloggers here might be interested in the CalMerc's Labour complains about SNP’s spoof poster as campaign turns nasty. Perhaps unsurprisingly, BBC Scotland make no mention of the spat in this website's Campaign focus on Trident weapons. Equally unsurprisingly, the spat is not mentioned on "Scottish" Labour's News page, while the SNP website covers the matter here.
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BBC Parliament channel this afternoon is re-screening coverage of various party manifesto launches.Six Scottish manifesto launches are being shown in succession with notable disparities in running times.
Scottish National Party - 15 mins
Scottish Green Party - 10 mins
Scottish TUSC - 10 mins
Scottish Labour - 20 mins
Scottish Tories - 25 mins
Scottish LibDems - 5 mins
Granted not all manifesto launches in Scotland could have been of equal length but surely with editing the parties could have recieved something a lot nearer parity in airtime on these.Does the BBC now think it doesn't have to take it's Charter seriously regarding political coverage?
Sorry to have to use Betsan's blog to post on Scottish politics but we're still waiting for Silence with Brian to resume.
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Just read that Brownedov, had a chuckle!
Feel free to visit NewsnetScotland.com and the Caledonian Mercury site folks, there are still folk prepared to debate!
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SNP & Plaid to take BBC to Court?
"I haven't seen any official anouncement about this, but I doubt if Elfyn would have said that legal action is to be taken, unless an official decision to go to court had been made by the parties"
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Brownedov re your 58
You may like to look at a campaign poster Labour thought was acceptable.
tinyurl.com/25jvdyp
How can they complain about the use of a logo, when they produce something like this?
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#62 dubbieside
"How can they complain about the use of a logo, when they produce something like this?"
Quite so, and thanks for the stomach-churningly awful Labour link. The lack of difference between the "official" and "provo" unionists really have reduced them to Jorge Luis Borges' fight between two bald men over a comb. No wonder the Tweedle-dems have profited when at least they offer a fair voting system, not that I'm entirely convinced they would deliver on that promise, of course.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Browndov
On another blog someone was posting that Brown must have known about this sick poster.
On part of the "leaders debate" when they were discussing the EU, Brown said "they'll turn Great Britain into little Britain"
Looks like it was meant to be part of a new Labour campaign, first the slogan on the TV debate followed up by the posters.
Can they go even lower?
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Would it be possible for the SNP or Plaid Cymru to take out an injunction against the BBC proceeding with the 29th April Debate under its present format on the grounds that it would cause electoral damage to them? I think that this is what injunctions are for. Does anyone know how much this process costs?
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#65 dubbieside
First a health warning to our Welsh friends: the STV link below contains a 3m video including dour Iain Gray, the "Scottish Labour leader" as he thinks of himself. Neither Mr Gray's image nor his soporific delivery are for the faint-hearted.
"Looks like it was meant to be part of a new Labour campaign, first the slogan on the TV debate followed up by the posters."
Yes. STV have a reasonable summary of it in their Election row over attack leaflets.
"Can they go even lower?"
Hard to imagine, but we have ample evidence that both Duff Gordon and Gray Iain are firm believers in Scott Adams' “You can never underestimate the stupidity of the general public”.
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Betsan could you give Brian Taylor a nudge he seems to have gone to sleep.
Meanwhile all the election news that BBC Scotland don't broadcast.
http://newsnetscotland.com/
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67. Brownedov
"First a health warning to our Welsh friends: the STV link below contains a 3m video including dour Iain Gray, the "Scottish Labour leader" as he thinks of himself. Neither Mr Gray's image nor his soporific delivery are for the faint-hearted."
you forgot to warn epileptics about Tavish Scotts' blinking...
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#45 Auld Bob
As you'll know, we've done the language to death several times on BwB (When Open). My point was specific to the Western Isles which is the last place where the Gaelic Language, (incorrectly regarded as the "native" tounge) is Alive. I didn't want to confuse the issue with the various indigenous varieties of the leid and the dialects of English. In Wales, there would appear to be (and I'm happy to be corrected if wrong) a clear division between those areas where Welsh is a living language and those areas where it is a minority and even dead language. Does that reflect in the politics ? Can a non-native speaker be elected in an area where the tounge predominates ?
I spent some time in Wales back in ancient history when the girl that I was dating then was on placement at Swansea Hospital. [I've actually just applied for a job in Cardiff]. Welsh didn't feature where we hung out other than on watching BBC2 Cymru. Has that changed in 15 years ?
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anyone seen the latest nat youtube video? got a tweet telling me about it.
CLicky Clicky
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#52. At 1:18pm on 24 Apr 2010, cynicalHighlander wrote:"Cameron's Beef",
So, if we are to start a cull of the subsidised economy it has to start with London; the biggest and most bloated part of Britain by a monumental distance. It is parasitic and holds down everyone else resulting in generations of poverty and emigration"/
Just by chance I had been doing a little research on the extra London funding by central Government. I had just read a report about how Uncle Boris was most upset by a report by the "Arbiter" The Arbiter says TfL, (Transport for London), has to raise £4,465m for PPP costs, prompting possible legal action and angry response from Boris Johnson. It also looks like the shareholders have been, "at it", and paid themselves big bucks. Boris, though, seems to think ALL UK taxpayers should pay for the stupitity that is PPI & PPP finances.
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66. Itumpi
It would be an interdict in Scots Law - but it means much the same thing. I understand the cost in the Court of Session in Edinburgh to be around £7,000. Difficult to find with this election (and perhaps another UK GE later this year?), the Parliament/Sennedd elections in 2011, and the Scottish local elections in 2012, and the Euros in 2013. Maybe we'll get a year off without elections in 2014!
A judicial review of the process by which the BBC (and perhaps other broadcasters took their undemocratic decision) would be better. After all the BBC Trust said they couldn't review the decision until after all the damage had been done.
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#70. At 5:58pm on 24 Apr 2010, Chiefy1724:
Little story about a tour of Wales my late wife and I made many years ago. We went into a local pub for a drink. As we walked in the conversation switched from English to Welsh. I winked at my wife and said, "Isn't it nice to hear the Welsh speaking their own language? I just wish our Lowland Scots was more different to English so we Scots could do the same". The conversation returned to English and, although no mentioned it, the landlord fetched another round of drinks, placed them on our table and pointed to the locals. Who switched back to English. We ended up parking the motor home behind the pub and had a great night with the locals.
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75. GrannieAnne
Ah, I forgot and mentioned the 'N' word which I'm proud to claim as my own. It's not electioneering, dear moderators, merely a statement of fact.
But they must do their jobs as they're given so no hard feelings on the matter.
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76. GrannieAnne
"Ah, I forgot and mentioned the 'N' word which I'm proud to claim as my own. It's not electioneering, dear moderators, merely a statement of fact.
"
:0 Naughty Anne,
I actually have to hand it to the moderators working on Betsan's Blog, they are a lot more tolerant than the ones on BWB (or as i'm calling it now - Deafening Silence With Brian).
Interesting comments from Nicola Sturgeon today, i wonder what you all make of it ? (SOURCE Newsnet Scotland)
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Next episode.
Don't Panic!: Can a deal be struck with Colonel Clegg?
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Our Welsh and Scottish nats are unblushingly praising each other in the most sickening manner.
I wouldn't dream of discussing politics on a Scottish blog, my knowledge of their political scene is skin deep.
I wouldn't know all the little nuances that outsiders don't understand or are not even interested in, but our Scottish nats have no such reserve.
And, I just had a quick look through our guests offerings, I didn't of course read them, as they've posted solidly night and day, times too precious to read such outpourings.
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No real complaint about the removal, Grahame. As I mentioned, they have to enforce the rules as given.
An interesting article in the Caledonia Mercury which, although it focuses on Scotland, is on a subject that I believe also is of interest to our patient and amiable hosts/hostesses.
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Betsan (and commenting posse), let me add my thanks to those of my fellow visitors for the welcome haven of your blog.
From your piece, for me the crucial point to address is given away in the quote you provide from Prof. Bell -
"public opinion may not tolerate a situation whereby the devolved administrations, and Scotland in particular, is perceived to be suffering less pain than England."
(the highlighting is mine)
For anyone who actually wants to avoid the 'English Backlash', perhaps the best and most democratically beneficial way might simply be for politicians and media to embark on a short campaign to educate the entire UK about both the specific details and contexts of accounting in the UK; including Barnett.
If the people of England are presented with a pejorative presention of parts of one side of the constitutional accounting of the UK, i expect there will be few with any incentive to look to the broader picture.
Transparent accounts from the government and helpful commentary via the media would help this topic of debate to move out of the nursery.
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79. Jack_Wilkinson
"And, I just had a quick look through our guests offerings, I didn't of course read them, as they've posted solidly night and day, times too precious to read such outpourings."
Sounds rather imperialistic by someone who hasn't learnt the word respect to guests let alone your own citizens.
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Another day, another Labour car crash and more Lib Dem fibs
Moving onto today's campaigning, which blithering idiot put Brown on stage after an Elvis impersonator? That's going to feed comedians across the land for the next week - particularly when even the Labour faithful (let alone the rest of the country) wishes that Brown really would leave the building...
Don't tell Jack the author is an Englishman proud to be a member of that north british party he fears.
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#79. At 8:26pm on 24 Apr 2010, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:"I wouldn't dream of discussing politics on a Scottish blog, my knowledge of their political scene is skin deep".
Yes indeed! Ignorance is bliss. However, you really should not tar everyone with the same brush that you use to tar yourself. Then you, laughingly, say, "I didn't of course read them". Which may explain two things.
1 - Why you write, "I wouldn't know all the little nuances that outsiders don't understand".
2 - Why you cannot see the gross injustice being done to the people of Wales.
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#81 - "Transparent accounts from the government and helpful commentary via the media would help this topic of debate to move out of the nursery."
For all I'm wary of us Scots hijacking this blog for our own ends, I think it's appropriate to comment on an argument that applies to both Scotland and Wales.
If the government was to produce transparent accounts, and the MSM commented on these in a neutral manner, how on earth would Unionists scaremonger and brow beat both the Welsh and the Scots into sticking with the Union?
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Whoa up there supercilious highlander!!! Guests are welcome. Idiots who involve themselves in the politics of the land they're guests in!!! Are supercilious loutish idiots
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Old Bob, since the arrival of our many guests, you and your ilk have posted enough wordage to equal the Bible, Koran and War and Peace. I'm not the slightest bit interested in reciprocating, I haven't got the time, going to work is a time consuming bitch, ain't you just the lucky one?
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86. Jack_Wilkinson
Is there not a logical contradiction in your comment? The Scots here have described ourselves as guests here, because we recognise that the Scots and the Welsh are separate countries who are friends (as we are wit the English).
As a Brit, you should see us as being all the same - consequently, we aren't guests at all. British blogs for British posters!
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Jack, old boy, it would appear your cage is well and truly rattled. The refugees are here because thier human rights are being abused in the home country. Looks to me like they are discussing points of relevance to both Wales and Scotland. Treasure this blog while it is still here, if it ever looks like being useful for a genuine debate or heven forfend, the dissemination of points of view contrary to the mindset of Unionists it will be removed just like the the one on BBC Scotland was.
One ting is certain though, if the BBC are so bothered that they try to shut down discussion, someone must be very very scared of what's going on. I wonder who?
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#81. At 8:37pm on 24 Apr 2010, mrbfaethedee wrote:"Betsan (and commenting posse), let me add my thanks to those of my fellow visitors for the welcome haven of your blog".
A sentiment I whole heartedly endorse. However, if you feel we are endangering your blog by attracting attention from the MODs, please do not hesitate to say so.
Anyway, as a further little reminder of how the unfair and, opaque, funding system works. Take several other things into account. The registration of UK wide companies that make profits from their outlets in Wales but who pay their tax through London Registered Head Offices but that is then not counted as Welsh contributions to the UK. VAT is also collected from such UK business in Wales and counted as being from London Head Offices. Hydrocarbon Oils Tax, (actually an Excise Duty), is paid as the fuel leaves the refinary. The allowance made as Welsh earned income is calculated on a per-capita basis of the Welsh Populaton. However, it should be based upon the full production figures. Then there are other taxes and revenues that do not show as being income from Wales to the UK treasury. Your country is nothing like as, "too poor, too small or too bloody stupid as they would have you believe it to be.
What of - BETTING AND GAMING TAX; AIR PASSENGER DUTY; INSURANCE PREMIUM TAX; LANDFILL TAX; CLIMATE CHANGE LEVY; AGGREGATES LEVY, the list is endless.
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Didn't i read something about a 4 Scotland 4 Wales initiative?
we are all brothers and sisters in Arms, seeking a fair deal for both countries
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#86. At 9:32pm on 24 Apr 2010, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:"Whoa up there supercilious highlander!!! Guests are welcome. Idiots who involve themselves in the politics of the land they're guests in!!! Are supercilious loutish idiots".
Oh! You just have to laugh. If you are such a stickler for the, "United Kingdom", why are you playing the Nationalist card of, "Don't interfere in my country, and highlighting that it is NOT a UNITED KINGDOM?
Furthermore - can you point me at any political fact that I have dealt with that is NOT applicable to Wales?
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#88 - "As a Brit, you should see us as being all the same - consequently, we aren't guests at all. British blogs for British posters!"
Isn't it funny how Unionists become Seperatists when it suits them.
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#87. At 9:53pm on 24 Apr 2010, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:"Old Bob, since the arrival of our many guests, you and your ilk have posted enough wordage to equal the Bible, Koran and War and Peace. I'm not the slightest bit interested in reciprocating, I haven't got the time, going to work is a time consuming bitch, ain't you just the lucky one?
I'm retired, Jack, Auld means, "old", in Lowland Scots. Tell you what Jack, if you can equal my employment history, then you will have earned the right to criticize me. I server my Queen and Country for more than 50 years and I never had a single day out of work in my working life.
Can you beat that? I earned my retirement and paid my dues to the system - have you?
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86. Jack_Wilkinson
I wouldn't worry when the next encumbent of No11 gets to see the books they will be dumbstruck as to how the UK has been hoodwinked for 13 years of borrowing disguised as growth, they will wish they had lost the election.
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Isn't it strange? Some Scottish blog is closed and the at most only 30% of Scots want independence, yet the only Scots to descend like a swarm of locusts, are that petulant driven 30%?
Much the same as the 12% who voted for Plaid in the last General Election, small in number but ferociously driven, bless em?
I'll let you 30% Scottish nationalists, and 12% Welsh nationalists, carry on with your happy clappy little love in. But, just imagine the outrage of Llafur/Plaidi types, if Scottish Unionists were doing the visiting? C'mon Rangers!!
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96. Jack_Wilkinson
Jack, i'm a Rangers fan and a Nationalist, and i don't live in Glasgow either, :)
but i think your statistics are rubbish.
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#96 - "Isn't it strange? Some Scottish blog is closed and the at most only 30% of Scots want independence, yet the only Scots to descend like a swarm of locusts, are that petulant driven 30%?"
No, what's strange is repeating the same lies that all Unionists revert to despite evidence to the contrary.
What's strange is a Unionist who feels Scots aren't welcome in his part of the UK unless they know their place. The minute they show a bit of independent thought, they're like a petulant swarm of locusts.
What's strange is a Unionist who revels in any potential conflict between Scots and the Welsh. No, wait a minute, I'll give you that one. Divide and conquer has been a Unionist tactic for generations.
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96. Jack_Wilkinson
"Isn't it strange? Some Scottish blog is closed and the at most only 30% of Scots want independence, yet the only Scots to descend like a swarm of locusts, are that petulant driven 30%?
"
Not strange at all - another bbc blog on the affairs of another devolved nation presents a post on the accounting mechanisms that affect all in the UK. The topic is the same for all, with plenty opportunity for new opinions and perspectives for those who seek to engage with others.
Swarm of locusts?! petulant?!
Such a bilious reaction.
I'm up for a second try -
Hi! I'm pro-independence for Scotland and currently support the SNP in order to furhter that end. I think the debates on the constitution of the UK are more important than any other topic in UK politics at present.
Within the context of Betsan's excellent post :-
Is the 'English backlash' warranted? If so why?
Do you think an adequate picture can be formed based on Barnett alone?
How do you feel about a new 'needs based' arrangement? Should it be applied to all nations of the UK? Do you think transparent accounting of inputs to the UK economy should also be taken into account? How big a part of this issue is perception? How are such perceptions driven?
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The poor English!!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00s5zyq/Party_Election_Broadcasts_English_Democrats_General_Election_2010_23_04_2010/
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90. Auld Bob
"However, if you feel we are endangering your blog by attracting attention from the MODs, please do not hesitate to say so."
i agree.
if the slightest whiff of trouble from on high comes along Betsan, let us know and we will decant, not sure where, but we don't want to be setting off the NAT alarm
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Honestly, you independence crazed Scots, trying to big up the proper Welsh with their proper Welsh names, and of course proper Welsh language types.
Are not doing Carwyn Jones, or Ieaun Wyn Jones, any favours whatsoever!! But, you are of course, too thick to notice?
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Jack
I think Reluctant-Expat, deducted4points, kered etc can at least get within a shouting distance of engaging with the vile Nationalists.
You, however, on the strength of your posts on this blog are not so engaging, and definitely not so welcoming
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#92 Auld Bob
Brilliant, just brilliant!!!
Unionist people, like the rest of us, are also nationalist. UK nationalists. They like to contradict themselves, then they contradict themselves trying to get themselves out of a contradiction. All very confusing; I hope you all agree!!!
p.s. have you all noticed Gordon's mantra of 'This country'? Is he taking to the majority English or has he forgotten the other three countries???
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#96. At 10:46pm on 24 Apr 2010, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:"
Isn't it strange? Some Scottish blog is closed and the at most only 30% of Scots want independence, yet the only Scots to descend like a swarm of locusts, are that petulant driven 30%?
Oh! Dear! Oh! Dear! Oh! Dear! You get more funny with every post. Tony Labour won the last election with only 22% of the UK vote in the last Election. That means the other Unionist parties had less to have lost.
Just what on Earth you think a Glasgow football team has to do with anything defies belief. Are you aware that Glasgow Rangers FC are actually steeped in IRISH Politics? They Favour the Orange Order and wave Union Flags with the Red Hand Of Ulster in the Centre.
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#39 Stonemason wrote:
Link to your website.
"Scots gnats not invited!"
I know I was not invited, but I was very naughty and sneeked a look. Just a little one.
I left quickly incase someone caught me and had to reprimand me.
Shame.
I am interested in art because of my teaching job in technology, graphics, design etc.
My 1st cousin, 6 times removed was David Martin b 1737 Anstruther and was a successful and inovative artist dealing in portraits and engraving in mezzotint. He worked in Scotland and Italy with Allan Ramsay and also worked in London at the St Martin's Academy.
His works are hung in the Scottish Portrait Gallery and he also did portraits of the US presidents which are still hung in the White House.
It would have been such an interesting visit to your website, but obviously I am not considered far enough up the food chain for your liking.
So much for the classless society that we are aiming for.
Ah well, Tha mi dulich, I will not pry into your world of art again.
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#96 Jack_Wilkinson
"I'll let you 30% Scottish nationalists, and 12% Welsh nationalists, carry on with your happy clappy little love in."
Gracious of you, but I do suggest you ask yourself two questions:
If only 30% of the people of Scotland want constitutional change, why are all of the unionist Tweedles so adamantly denying the people of Scotland a referendum on their constitutional future which would - as Salmond admits - settle the matter "for a generation"?
If 64% of the people of Scotland want the level of taxes set outwith Westmidden [see my #48 above], will anything less than full fiscal autonomy satisfy them or will prevarication drive them towards a full independence they perceive as being less than ideal?
But it's getting late now, so goodnight all.
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#100. At 11:28pm on 24 Apr 2010, DisgustedinDERRY:
The very sad thing is they really believe they are subsidising everyone else. They spout the figures and obviously have never actually studied them. What is even more sad is that they base their befiefs upon anti-every other UK country. I do hope, though, that we get some of them elected to Westminster and, if the culture-shock doesn't kill them, they will get lots of support from all the other nationalists but no one will tell them that after England gets her independence. Such things as North Sea Revenues, The Crown Estate rentals from Wales, Scotland and N.Ireland and large whacks of many other taxes and excises are out of their reach - forever.
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#100 DisgustedinDERRY
"The poor English!!!"
Thanks for the link, which came up while I was waiting for my previous post to clear.
Well worth a look, and anyone suffering from IP blocking should try English Democrats election broadcast.
I fear that they're destined for disappointment when they get the full fiscal autonomy they also want, and their immigration policies are inappropriate outwith England, but they should certainly be welcomed on the "My enemy's enemy is my friend" principle.
Now really off to Befordshire, albeit not in the geographic sense.
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102. Jack_Wilkinson
"Are not doing Carwyn Jones, or Ieaun Wyn Jones, any favours whatsoever!! But, you are of course, too thick to notice?"
Now if the first "sentence" of yours were to come from a Plaid supporter, that would be something worth listening to.
At a guess (and I can only guess at the reactions of those in a different political system) that potential Plaid voters may note our comments with a range of reactions - from indifference to mild interest.
A Brit, however, who felt that we were being counter productive to Plaid would simply keep quiet, and reap the electoral reward.
A Brit who felt that we might demonstrate to such potential Plaid supporters that Wales is not alone, and has friends elsewhere, might fear the consequences and become abusive as well as employing a clumsy tactic.
I'm afraid that you have a long way to go before you can hope to emulate the virulent Brit Nats, that we routinely deal with.
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104. DisgustedinDERRY
"#92 Auld Bob
Brilliant, just brilliant!!!"
Aye, Auld Bob's been putting out some braw posts lately - particularly on UK accounting. Anyone needing a new view on block grants and what comes from where in the UK can just click on his name to go and look over his posts.
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102. Jack_Wilkinson
"Are not doing Carwyn Jones, or Ieaun Wyn Jones, any favours whatsoever!! But, you are of course, too thick to notice?
"
Too thick to notice you yelling and stamping your feet? No, we noticed but believe that all nations have some amongst them who can't help but behave childishly.
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#102. At 11:37pm on 24 Apr 2010, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:"Honestly, you independence crazed Scots, trying to big up the proper Welsh with their proper Welsh names, and of course proper Welsh language types".
Oh! So now it is wrong for others to speak their own languages? Let me ask you a quick question. What do you think of Cumbric as a language?
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99. mrbfaethedee
"How do you feel about a new 'needs based' arrangement? "
I think a needs based arrangement would be find IF it included all FOUR countries and not just Scotland, Wales and NI. Does London NEED a crossrail link? It sure doesn't help me so why should it be outwith the accounting? There are ample other examples.
If it is based on needs based accounting it has to be for ALL the countries.
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I'd be interested in any Welsh reactions to this story
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7107300.ece
"NICK CLEGG has declared that he will refuse to prop up an “irrelevant” Gordon Brown even if Labour secures the largest number of seats in a hung parliament."
Polls in Scotland (we have few Scottish polls - though far more than Wales!) have suggested that in a forced choice between Tory and Labour, most Scottish Nats and LDs reject the Tories. If Clegg is suggesting that he will dress to the right, then that could have negative consequences for the LDs in Scotland. If not during this election then certainly after it if the LDs at Westminster support a Tory Government.
How would Welsh LD voters react?
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38. ianapharri
"He is in a minority - honest!
It takes all sorts to make a Wales and his Wales is, well, a little odd.
There are worse than him on thsi blog, but not many.
Don't say that you haven't been warned!"
We Scots can be a bit odd at times so I doubt that will make us feel uncomfortable. We're close cousins, after all. All blogs have some of the bad tempered ilk such as you point out. Most of out parents taught us better manners, but we all know this doesn't happen with everyone.
Thank you very much for your graciousness.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#104. At 11:37pm on 24 Apr 2010, DisgustedinDERRY wrote:"Unionist people, like the rest of us, are also nationalist".
Sorry if I'm shattering your beliefs but while they may well see themselves as Nationalist the nation they see themselves belonging to is a Political Union of several countries. Kingdom refers to the monarchy and Ireland had been subsumed into England, Wales had become an English Principality when they found themselves rather short of a Monarch. So the Scottish Monarch became also the English, Irish and Welsh monarch in 1603 after the Treaty of the Union of the Crowns. Then, over 100 years later, they signed another treaty called, "The Union of The Parliaments of the United Kingdom". Then the two signatories went home to their individual parliaments and each passed an, "Act Of Union of the Parliaments of the United Kingdom". In 1707. So the United Kingdom is one Kingdom but four countries who share a common parliament. Ergo- the UK is not a country but is a Political Union. The parliament could still split up but the Kingdom will still remain a United Kingdom, (unless we declare ourselves rebublics).
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111. mrbfaethedee
Can I suggest that we remember Auld Bob's story of visiting Wales with his wife?
No matter how difficult, we should remember to use a form of English here that our hosts will easily understand.
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I will sleep tonight as Winston Churchill slept on 7 December 1941. G'night my dearly beloved Scottish brethren in arms and lifelong friends!!!
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113. At 00:27am on 25 Apr 2010, Auld Bob wrote:
#102. At 11:37pm on 24 Apr 2010, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:"Honestly, you independence crazed Scots, trying to big up the proper Welsh with their proper Welsh names, and of course proper Welsh language types".
Oh! So now it is wrong for others to speak their own languages? Let me ask you a quick question. What do you think of Cumbric as a language?
Pardon?
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#119 - " Does London NEED a crossrail link? It sure doesn't help me so why should it be outwith the accounting?"
No, that's the problem with the system just now. The crossrail link shouldn't count as UK spending (meaning 10% of the cost is accounted for as Scotland expenditure), it should count as London/England spending. Would make all the difference to those subsidy claims, me thinks.
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114. GrannieAnne
"
If it is based on needs based accounting it has to be for ALL the countries."
I'm with you on that GrannieAnne!
That's just a start too, let's also look at what each nation contributes as well as what they receive.
I'll not get into gearings like the UK grid energy transmission charges ;)
For now though, i'm off...
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#108 Auld Bob
What I enjoyed was the phrase 'economic devolution'. The English democrat party, with nationalist values and unionist outlook!!!
Why don't we let the English spend all our money, sure we can live on spuds and beans. We have been doing it for centuries!!!
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#122 - Sorry oldnat, just realised that's exactly what you were saying. Duh! Time for bed, me thinks.
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#118 Auld Bob
While I agree that our four countries have a political union I have to point out a few things. First of all, Ireland entered into the Union with (not so)Great Britain in 1801 forming the (un)United Kingdom of (not so)Great Britain and Ireland. Not 1707 as, I presume you mean. This however, from an Irish perspective, was not put to the people, therefore is illegal!!!
In regards the 'Kingdom', just because a person declares themselves King Of England, Ireland and Scotland, does not make them King!!!
If for example I declared myself king of Ireland right now, does that make me King Of Ireland???
If and when Ireland is reconstituted as a single entity, you can be rest assured, that the majority of Irish people will want no connection to a monarch who heads an Army of terrorists!!!
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126. DisgustedinDERRY
I forgot to say earlier that I was glad to see you posting. If only someone from Mebyn Kernow would post we would have complete representation of the nations within the present UK borders.
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126. DisgustedinDERRY
I should have added that since Betsan now hosts the most international blog on the Beeb (with the exception of the Euro blog), she now deserves a huge salary increase. She can have Brian's salary as well of course.
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#128 Oldnat
That is a sign of the times, we are a collection of international nations!!!
I laugh when I hear the BNP talk of indigenous British people. They complain that we have too many foreign nationals. They have invaded countries for centuries. They went all over the world and stole the wealth of other cultures. When they were followed home by the other cultures, they were a little upset!!!
If any man or woman can say for definite they belong to one nation; one set of people, they will probably have three legs and two heads!!!
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129. DisgustedinDERRY
"we are a collection of international nations!!!"
It's one of these fascinating aspects about politics.
A small country is, by necessity, internationalist. We can't force our ideas on others we need to co-operate with others.
A huge country, like the USA or China, can (as long as it has internal cohesion) ignore others and ride roughshod over others.
Middle sized countries have a choice. They can, like Germany, use their influence to maintain their interests in co-operation with their neighbours. Alternatively, if they are trapped in some historical backwater like the UK, they can waste resources on pretending to be a big player (if the really big boys let them play) while squabbling with their neighbours instead of co-operating with them.
Alas the UK has not yet realised that the Empire disappeared many years ago. It so resembles that 40 year old woman in a mini skirt and crop top that others laugh at, while she thinks she is getting approving smiles.
Such a country would have its PM sharing his campaign with a long deceased rock star.
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oldnat
Mutton dressed as mutton you reckon? At least we get taken for a ride by an American capitalist every weekend. A European socialist through the week; we are the slapper nation of international nations!!!
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Betsan
Apologies for posting a purely Scottish story here, but Denis Canavan has endorsed the SNP candidate in Falkirk.
http://politics.caledonianmercury.com/2010/04/25/blow-for-labour-as-canavan-backs-snp-candidate/
If I knew more about Welsh politics, I might give a simile, but this could be very significant!
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# 129 DisgustedinDERRY
"I laugh when I hear the BNP talk of indigenous British people. They complain that we have too many foreign nationals."
That's a bit rich considering that the 'English' were Germanic tribes that came over and settled in our country.
As to the English Democrats, I agree with some some of their proposals and would certainly support their call for an English Parliament. It's a pity that they are using false figures to castigate the Welsh and the Scots to back up their claims. Now, I need to get ready to go to work.
PS I wholeheartedly endorse the sentiments given to our Welsh brethern by the Scottish posters. I also agree that if pressure is put upon Betsan Powys by other 'powers' to curtail our posting on this blog then we should vacate it.
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... rather than "bitch bitch whine whine winge moan", whilst picking at the regional periphery of the BBC, get to the heart of debate ...
... so for the disgruntled of Scotland, have you tried ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/default.stm ,
For the record we understand that for the nationalists psyche that "everything Nats is good" whilst "everything contrary is bad", it's just everyone is so tired of reading it ...
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just heard on the BBC news channel that the SNP are launching a legal bid, but need to secure funding of £50,000
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If the SNP need £50,000 could this be the time our visitors retreated to the streets of Scotland with caps in hand to raise the money, leave a forwarding address and I'll send a pound ...
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#121. At 00:57am on 25 Apr 2010, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:"Pardon".
You passes, (somewhat disparagingly),comments on non-English UK languages.
I asked your opinion on the old Cumbric Language that was spoken in an area that is now part of England. The relevance will be obvious to those who know, even a little, about British languages. By the way Cumbric predates, not only English, but Old English too.
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135. Grahame
might find out more on Andrew Marr at 9:15am :)
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Is there always a haunting by some cretin on these blogs?
One capable of only insult and utterly incapable of meaningful debate or even listening to a different point of view?
From under which stone do they crawl?
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#135 Grahame
"just heard on the BBC news channel that the SNP are launching a legal bid, but need to secure funding of £50,000"
Thanks for the heads-up and glad to see it's more than a rumour. Nothing on this website yet, but having had his own Sky debate, Murdoch seems to relish it with the "Scottish" NotW reporting it with their SNP mount legal challenge over TV debate. Following on from their Wrong move for the SNP to have been denied a chance to shine on telly, this has to be good news for democracy.
The NotW may not be my glass of tea, but at least it will help to get the word onto the streets.
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135. At 08:13am on 25 Apr 2010, Grahame wrote:
"just heard on the BBC news channel that the SNP are launching a legal bid, but need to secure funding of £50,000"
Just saw that as well, Grahame. I hope this has been sparked by a jump in SNP membership and/or donations. The affront to democracy and the cynical closing of the Scotish political blog to silence any comment on the Trusts decision has just caused me to join a political party for the first time because I believe that there is an imortant fight to be fought here, the fight for democracy. Ieuan Wyn Jones said that Plaid can't afford to take their case to court, I would have no problem if the SNP could help them out with this, albeit they don't have a lot of money to spare. We can only hope that the SNP challenge provides a ruling that may help the Plaid cause indirectly.
132. At 02:43am on 25 Apr 2010, oldnat wrote:
"Denis Canavan has endorsed the SNP candidate in Falkirk"
That is extremely good news for the SNP. Canavan is one of the few politicians that I have respect for. Joyce deserves a fall.
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#126. At 01:21am on 25 Apr 2010, DisgustedinDERRY wrote:
1 - “Ireland entered into the Union with Great Britain in 1801”.
Actually Ireland didn't join the UK in 1801. The last native, “High King Of Ireland”, ended after the reign, (1166-1175), of Rory O'Connor. What happened in 1801 was nothing to do with the royal situation but that of the parliamentary rule.
2 - “If and when Ireland is reconstituted as a single entity, you can rest assured, that the majority of Irish people will want no connection to a monarch who heads an Army of terrorists”!!!
I have little doubt of that, but the matter of the Royal succession has nothing to do with it. The royal succession gave us the eventual, “United Kingdom of Great Britain & Ireland”, but that was the matter of who wore the crown. It did not give us, “The Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Ireland”. That was what, “The Union of the Parliaments of Great Britain", did in 1707. The Act of Union between Ireland was actually signed in 1800 but only became effective in 1801. The really important thing about that act was it was signed between Ireland and, “THE UNITED KINGDOM PARLIAMENT”. The point is that if Scotland withdraws from the Treaty of Union of 1707 then Ireland signed a treaty with a political Union that is then dissolved. It thus could no longer be enforced by the now extinct, “Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain”.
See how good an independent Scotland would be for ALL the present devolved areas?
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139. Diabloandco
Diabloandco - good to see your input again!
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... how about a pound each, just leave your addresses on the way out.
The vast majority of British viewers of the BBC are very happy with it, even though we might think coverage is not quite what we may want. The Scots invaders having spoilt their own debating platform are now trying to spoil other blogs with their irrelevant rants, go home, you brought nothing to this political platform other than your particular bile.
Is it your intention to close Betsan's blog ... dogs in a manger springs to mind ...
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PS to my #140
Those unfamiliar with the Scottish dead tree press might care to note that the Scottish NotW is the only "popular" Sunday paper with an increase in circulation over the past year. FWIW, the leading four are:
March 2010; March 2009; Change; Paper
372,229; 408,753; -8.94%; Sunday Mail
271,074; 268,321; +1.03%; Scottish News of the World
233,934; 248,062; -5.70%; Sunday Post
112,871; 117,833; -4.21%; Scottish Daily Mail
Source allmediascotland.com. I'll hope to post the full table including the dailies on BwB when or if it reopens.
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#129. At 01:46am on 25 Apr 2010, DisgustedinDERRY wrote:"I laugh when I hear the BNP talk of indigenous British people".
It is even more laughable than that. The name England comes from, "Anglish", (Of the Angles). These were a tribe from Schleswig that settled in eastern Britain in the 5th c. So those who claim to be English are Immigrants into Britain.(Note - in fact DNA shows there is only around 5% of, "The English", who have Anglo Saxon descent). The rest are geneticall just like the rest of us.
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From this website's Live coverage - General Election 2010...
0846: The SNP has confirmed they are raising funds to proceed with legal action over Thursday's final Prime Ministerial debate, as reported in several Scottish newspapers this morning. A spokesman says they are confident of raising the £50,000 estimated cost for the case at the Court of Session. They say they're not trying to prevent the debate being broadcast, but they feel that an SNP politician should be included "for balance".
0856: Plaid Cymru say they fully support the action taken by the SNP in Scotland over the televised prime ministerial debates, but will not be taking joint action due to the separate legal systems. A party spokesperson said they would not be able to raise sufficient funds for legal action in the "short-time frame" before the final debate on Thursday.
Salmond live on that page as I write.
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#134. At 08:02am on 25 Apr 2010, Stonemason wrote:"For the record we understand that for the nationalists psyche that "everything Nats is good" whilst "everything contrary is bad", it's just everyone is so tired of reading it"
I'm sorry if I have offended, "Everyone", or even if I have bored, "Everyone", and I will leave not only if, "Everyone", ask me to leave but if a majority ask me to leave. I was not aware they had, "ALL", asked you to speak on, "ALL", their behalf.
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latest tweet from SNP official twitter account
SNP fighting fund reaches £10,025 by 9am.
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144. Stonemason
"The Scots invaders having spoilt their own debating platform are now trying to spoil other blogs with their irrelevant rants, go home, you brought nothing to this political platform other than your particular bile."
Och, rants and bile. Yes, dearie, you should recognise them. Now do have a cup of tea and a nice lie down. You'll feel better for it.
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#136. At 08:16am on 25 Apr 2010, Stonemason wrote:"If the SNP need £50,000 could this be the time our visitors retreated to the streets of Scotland with caps in hand to raise the money, leave a forwarding address and I'll send a pound"
That's very kind of you I'm sure you would find "a weblink useful"
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144. Stonemason
Lump hammer hits thumb, ouch!
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Tory win ‘could split the union’
The Sky News/YouGov survey indicates that an anti-Tory backlash in Scotland would push support for separatism from 31% now to 40%. Opposition to independence would fall from 54% to 43%.
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#144 Stonemason
"The Scots invaders having spoilt their own debating platform are now trying to spoil other blogs with their irrelevant rants"
Tetchy this morning, aren't you? But, I do appreciate your dilemma. If the UK is a unitary state, why should not posters from different regions discuss matters of mutual interest on a British blog ...
"go home, you brought nothing to this political platform other than your particular bile."
... but if it consists of four separate nations with different polities, why should posters from the nations who are concerned at the "Greater England" approach consider matters of mutual interest on each others' national blogs?
And by "spoil" you seem to mean posting views contrary to those of BBC London. You might try contacting the OED with a view to adding that meaning to their list.
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Great to hear there's a welcome in the valleys after the glens had been closed. I feared for the BBC after the HYS blog removed a suggestion that the English voters moaning about funding North Britain, should sort it out with the London parties who were blocking the route to referendum.
Hamish's piece on the poster was superb; Kenneth Roy's article on newsnet gives us all hope that even without Brian there is a forum.
Sorry to hear that PC cannot fight the broadcasting of the debate and a bit concerned that the SNP may blow a good chunk of the budget needed in 2011. Is there any prospect of a wealthy benefactor as our own odd tenners may not be enough. Will the media give due publicity irrespective of the outcome?
Looking forward to today's discussion, more of the Satrap's patriotism no doubt, but against a skilled debater.....
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144. At 09:08am on 25 Apr 2010, Stonemason wrote:
"The Scots invaders having spoilt their own debating platform are now trying to spoil other blogs with their irrelevant rants, go home, you brought nothing to this political platform other than your particular bile.
Is it your intention to close Betsan's blog ... dogs in a manger springs to mind ..."
Stonemason, the Scots have not "invaded". Betsan has welcomed us to her blog, and we are very grateful for this. I haven't seen any irrelevant rants, largely due to the fact that our usual unionist supporters have not followed us over to Betsans blog, and trust me, they really can rant. As for bile, I haven't seen any of that, merely reasoned, substantiated comment, apart from your bile.
It is certainly NOT our intention to close or even threaten Betsans blog, and along with the rest of the Scottish refugees, I would be gone in a flash if I thought that being here would make life in any way difficult for Betsan. Making life difficult for anyone who spouts unsubstantiated unionist bile is an other thing.
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#144. At 09:08am on 25 Apr 2010, Stonemason wrote:"The vast majority of British viewers of the BBC are very happy with it, even though we might think coverage is not quite what we may want".
Oh! Dear! I'm so sorry. I just posted a retort doubting you were the elected spokesperson for the whole number of Blog contributers in Wales. I did not realist you had been appointed a spokesperson for the entire BBC listners and viewers audiences. Does it also include the BBC overseas Audiences?
Strange, though, I would have thought, that very nice young lady, "Betsan Powys", was quite capable of telling off anyone she had a problem with? She seems a bonnie,feisty, lady to me.
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This website now covers the story with its SNP in legal bid over BBC TV prime ministerial debate including a whole 53 seconds of video from the AM show.
Off out now, but back later, I hope.
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120. At 00:52am on 25 Apr 2010, Bryn_Teilo wrote:
"I will sleep tonight as Winston Churchill slept on 7 December 1941. G'night my dearly beloved Scottish brethren in arms and lifelong friends!!!"
Bryn_Teilo, I have,to my embarrasment, not paid enough attention to the Welsh cause, having been too wrapped up in our own. That will certainly change from here on in, and I will be a regular visitor here from now on. The BBC has inadvertantly caused a new horizon to open up between the Welsh and Scottish nats. Long may it continue.
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155. At 09:48am on 25 Apr 2010, heraldnomore wrote:"Sorry to hear that PC cannot fight the broadcasting of the debate and a bit concerned that the SNP may blow a good chunk of the budget needed in 2011. Is there any prospect of a wealthy benefactor as our own odd tenners may not be enough".
Have no fears. 007, Sean is contributing again, as is Brian Souter of, "Stagecoach", and there was some other wealthy person but I cannot remember who, off hand.
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Surely the reputation of the BBC has reached an all time low? Even Sky news acted more fairly to Scottish wishes on the debates, which they had no need to do, being a private company.
It just shows that the BBC and the BBC Trust are full of fifth columnists, working for the Labour Party, and need to be gutted and their influence neutralised. Scotland needs its own broacasting channel, unadulterated by political placemen of any hue.
Brown talks about fairness. How false that sentiment is when uttered by the Labour Party.
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Thanks X-sticks , however I think I'll be more of a lurker than contributor on Betsans site.
That said bursting bubbles is such a temptation!
And a hello to Bryn ,I have enjoyed his contributions for a long time!
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I have banged on a bit about such things as the, "Crown Estates revenues, royalties and incomes". It just dawned upon me I had perhaps missed explaining how the immediate effects impact upon the populations of, among others, Wales. I was highlighting the fact that these billions go directly into the United Kingdom Coffers but are not fully shown as income from the UK countries where they are earned. Thus, when the accounts are shown to the public they are treated as England only as ONLY ENGLAND is funded as the UK directly.
However, the immediate impact is that as the Crown Estate rentals are levied on such things as power lines, water pipes, sewers, roads, railways, public parks, rented homes, even private homes, power stations, gas installations and very much more besides. (They even own London's Regent Street), the costs of these rents is passed on to the users by the power companies, gas providers, et al. So you see it is just really an extra hidden tax upon the people most unable to pay it. The fact is that as the Crown Estates belong to the state that we are paying these rents and royalties for something that is already our own.
Oh! By the way - for those who accuse we Scots of contributing nothing to the blog - I note that there are three BNP candidates IN WALES not using that party's name on ballot papers - they are standing under the Banner of, "Support Our Troops Bring Them Out". I also note that, "The nurse", shown talking to the Lib Dem candidate, John Dixon, on his election leaflet was not in fact a nurse but a researcher for the Lib Dem party.
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"Everyone knows it is a stitch-up demanded by the London-based parties and meekly agreed to by the BBC
Alex Salmon MSP
SNP leader"
Again, is this happening deliberatley now?
His name is Alex Salmond.
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Live text on the Sky News Scottish debate at Brigadoon. All welcome to pop in and comment!
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Certainly an interesting debate, and one can see why the LDs kept Tavish indoors. Auntie Bella may have done better than Mundell who seems to the view that if he says something loudly and just keeps on talking then it must be right. The Satrap was pretty much as expected, good patriot, defending the decision to invade Iraq, blah blah. I've added my tuppenceworth to Alex's fighting fund - keep it going big man
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Thanks forfar-loon.
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"SNP takes legal action to prevent leaders' debate
Alex Salmond says third UK debate on BBC should be halted"
Why are STV running with this article when it has already been stated that is not the SNP's aim concerning the legal action?
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#168 - "Why are STV running with this article when it has already been stated that is not the SNP's aim concerning the legal action?"
I think looking at the practical aspects, any interim interdict would effectualy halt the debates altogther. In this age of iPlayer, Sky, Freeview, etc., it would be extremely difficult for the beeb to limit the viewers to England, or even England and Wales, only.
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#169
the SNP are seeking a judicial review first, only if that fails would an interdict then be the only action left available.
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169. ForteanJo
"I think looking at the practical aspects, any interim interdict would effectualy halt the debates altogther."
Principle 17 of the agreement between the Tweedles and the broadcasters reads "This proposal is subject to each broadcaster complying with its duties on due impartiality and election coverage across the nations of the UK."
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#142 Auld Bob
"The last native, “High King Of Ireland”, ended after the reign, (1166-1175), of Rory O'Connor"
The last Irish Royalty left Ireland during the 'Flight of the Earls', 3rd September 1607. Hugh O'Neill led them to Spain to try and bring back a military force. By this time in Irish History, Ireland was already under the 'Iron Fist' of English oppression. The previous conquest by the Tudors was brutal and bloody. Exhausted the Earls needed backup to rid their land of tyrants and thieves!!!
Until 1541, the sitting English monarch had the title of 'Lord Of Ireland'. Henry VIII was the first English King to be crowned King of Ireland. He was declared King by an Irish Parliament, consisting of English Landlords!!!
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One hundred and seventy one whining posts from disgruntled supporters of minority parties.For myself I would like to see a debate between the two people one of whom is going to be the next Prime Minister of the United Kingdom and who is going to lead the important decisions for the next five years be it going to war, changing electoral systems,changing the currency or similar.Is this so wrong.
So as the role of UK Prime Minister does not not concern the leaders or members of minor assemblies can we stop the wining and as Brown said to Clegg, Get real!
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Nick Robinson's new thread
"I'm told that Labour has asked the two other big parties to sign a joint letter to broadcasters criticising them for covering the debates and the polls too much and claiming that the news bulletins had "failed to deliver the usual specialist examination of specific policy areas". The Lib Dems and the Tories have refused to sign. "
Lovely!
While SNP and PC are complaining that they aren't in the debates - Brown is complaining that he is!
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Still no BwB thread despite todays election events with respect to a Scottish perspective, what on earth is going on? As welcome as Betsan and many of her contributors have made us to her blog this really is only a temporary home.
With respect to our Welsh friends how are we to discuss issues relating to Scotland only such as this mornings televised debate without squeezing out any debate on Welsh matters?
Shared issues are fair game however, such as the SNP's legal action with implications for Plaid Cymru.
BBC, where have all the Scottish political correspondents gone, surely one of them can open a thread for discussion, or do I have to put more money in the meter?
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#173 - "For myself I would like to see a debate between the two people one of whom is going to be the next Prime Minister of the United Kingdom and who is going to lead the important decisions for the next five years be it going to war, changing electoral systems,changing the currency or similar.Is this so wrong."
Short answer - yes. Slightly longer answer - if these debates have shown anything, it's that those who believe a general election is a simple issue of chosing between Labour and the tories are deluded.
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Goeff Drake
As opinion polls suggest that neither of the English parties can obtain a majority, does that turn your argument on its donkey. None of the leaders, as it stands, can say for sure, that there is a possibility of them being PM, maybe there should be no debates at all. That is playing by your rules as stated of course!!!
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#175 - "BBC, where have all the Scottish political correspondents gone"
I know Brian was having difficulty getting to Stornoway for his big debate, with the flights cancelled, etc. and having to travel by boat.
Does anyone know if he made it back safely?
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173. geoff drake
"Is this so wrong."
I'm afraid it is.
To want to exclude the 3rd party in terms of popular support, would be grossly unfair. The people of GB (though not NI) deserve to hear the views of the Labour Party given equal prominence to the other main parties in the appropriate parts of the country.
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174. oldnat
"Nick Robinson's new thread"
Popped a link in previous thread offering Alex to take his place.
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175. ScotInNotts
"do I have to put more money in the meter?"
Looks like it. The licence fee only buys unfairness.
The meter is here
http://www.snp.org/node/16972
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173.
For myself I would like to see a debate between the two people one of whom is going to be the next Prime Minister of the United Kingdom
You mean Clegg and Cameron? Labour are in third place in the UK polls, in case you hadn't noticed. What's the leader of a small minority party like Labour doing in the leaders' debates? I await your letter of outrage to the Western Mail with interest.
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Scots exiled to wales, no less! The BBC is truly a bastion of free discussion, ain't it?
Will we have to learn Cymric to keep out of the eyes of the censors?
;-)
Jim
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The PM blog remains open for (post-moderated) election talk.
(It takes around twenty posts (they can be innocuous) to clear pre-mod)
Here's to a well hung Parliament!
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Google Governmentitus then watch video in thread "Bring Down The Elephant".
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It's here!
Let's hear it for "choice"!
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184. Big Jim
"The PM blog"
Thanks for the reminder! I had forgotten that site.
Betsan - thanks for the hospitality. While I'll pop back from time to time, to see what my Welsh chums are saying, I'm afraid that your Unionists are sad wee milksops.
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186. Big Jim
Thanks.
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Cynic,
No. Thank you! I forgot to credit you.
Slainte
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Jack, you are not on your own in viewing this love fest between the undemocratic Welsh and Scottish Nats, as sickening.
And have you noticed the appalling creeping attitude by the Scots to the originator of this blog: "thank you Betsan for allowing us…" "The feisty Betsan…" "The charming Betsan..", they humbly appologise.
All it needed from one of them was to add the term, "fragrant" to their cringe worthy missives to remind everyone of the summing up at the trial of Geoffrey Archer when the reactionary Judge at the high court described Archer's wife as the, "fragrant Mrs Archer".
It is totally sickening.
And don’t you change your style in dealing with the nats one little bit.
And if you haven't seen that link to an SNP political video that one of them has put up, have a look at it. It had me in stitches. Every one of the gnats including their leader looked into the camera and said in turn, I'm a teacher or a grocer, or a butcher, a baker or candlestick maker, followed by, "I'm a Gnat".
I held my breath thinking it was a Monty Python sketch and any moment one of them was going to break into a variation of the old Flanders an Allen number and start singing, "I’m a Gnat and that is that… I hope that you'll enjoy the following show…"
They do add a ridiculous type of colour to political debate. But I still wouldn’t trust them to run a whelk stall in the Grainger Market, let alone a government.
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Oldnat and any other Quirkies , have donated but with difficulty - it seems that the verification process from my bank is not happy.
I prefer writing cheques , at least I know that there will be no argument with any new security.
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I tried to tell you that generally we just attempt to ignore Jack and Stonemason and the few others of that cabal. They are embarassing, as you've seen, and they resort to insult when they've lost the argument, which is pretty much from the very beginning usually. I suggest that you - our new and very welcome guests and friends - do the same. Why waste your time on those who cannot and will not engage in actual debate. We have to deal with their lack of logic and a moral cowardice that means they will not answer questions when challenged to justify their often strange views. My advice: don't get sucked in!
I hope the money comes in, and good luck.
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Re 190
...and how could I forget the intellectual giant that is Fitz?!!
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Just for Fo "aming", possibly at the mouth ...
Today's front page of the Sunday Times:
Conservative ... 35% (up)
Labour ... 27% (down)
Lib Dem ... 28% (down)
Plaid ... nowhere
... or it could be Gnats - irrelevant.
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Fo Dafydd, I'm blown away by Fitz's erudition. Is that the best your bunch of Brits can come up with? If/when BletherWithBrian ever reappears, stick your head in and see how the regulars deal with R-E and the Brig. kered and his multiple personalities can be laugh at times, depends on the state of his medication. We used to have a reasonably engaging Young Fogey of a Tory but he's not around anymore. I think he's got the head down and studying or knocking doors 24/7 in a lost cause.
Best of luck to yourself and your comrades in Plaid.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/business/markets-economy/southern-shoppers-flood-north-as-irish-retail-sector-falters-1.993352
DisgustinginDerry,
if you've got any family or friends in the ROI, could you thank them for boosting Her Majesty's Exchequer, and for making British retailers the most profitable in the UK, during these difficult times?
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GeneralMalaise
Where has spinspamsun7 disappeared to?
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196. Grahame
"n"
Aha, didn't think i'd get away with it :)
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Jack_Wilkinson
Shoppers may well be flooding northwards from the Republic for the moment but its not exactly going to be hard for British retailers to be the most profitable in the UK now, is it?
However if you were to ask these same shoppers if they wanted to go back to being ruled from London, you know fine well the answer you would get.
Yes, the Irish are in a bit of a mess at the moment, but they will work their own way out of it, striving to meet the imperatives that matter to them, not some bunch of foreigners in faraway London.
Face it Brits, the sun is sinking (not so slowly) on your Empire. Soon you will be but a rather unpleasant footnote in history. Most of the world is sitting laughing at you.
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#192 FoDafydd
I agree, ignoring someone irritates them. It brings out the true them! They cannot engage properly and usually resort to childish behaviour, a trait common among unionism in general. Having no substantiated opinion to offer, they resort to petty, childish and unwarranted ignorance of how things are in the real world!!!
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Very latest from Twitter £29,765
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190. Fitzmark2
"And have you noticed the appalling creeping attitude by the Scots to the originator of this blog: "thank you Betsan for allowing us…" "The feisty Betsan…" "The charming Betsan..", they humbly appologise."
Since when is complimenting your hostess "apologising"? She has been most gracious. Apparently you do not appreciate her, but I assure you that others do.
That speaks volumes about you, my good sir, that you are so ungracious.
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194. Stonemason
"... or it could be Gnats - irrelevant.
"
Say that again when there is a hung parliament and those so very irrelevant parties hold the balance of power.
Here you go, laddie, let me help you out with knowing how that will look: http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/index.html?scotland.html
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197. Jack_Wilkinson
That very dated article proves--what?
Aye. Nothing. Right. We'll all go about our business then.
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Having missed the leaders' debate on Sky this morning, I was able to watch it on STV in six meaty chunks starting with Immigration and taxes. Us emigrés may find it illuminating and anybody else here with a chink of open-mindedness might also. STV also have Bernard Ponsonby's unsurprising verdict which does remind us that Ponsonby is interviewing the FM tonight on STV at 22:40 BST.
STV's opinion of the result is clear from the fact that they had an online poll during the debate which seems now to be "lost". Unfortunately for them, it was picked up by many local news outlets such as the Maghull & Aintree Star with Poll: Salmond ahead after TV debate telling us that: "An online poll for STV asking voters which of the leaders had performed best put Mr Salmond in front, with 45% opting for the SNP leader. Mr Carmichael came in second with 33%, ahead of Mr Mundell on 18% and Mr Murphy with 5%."
A voodoo poll, as UKPR would call it, and my own view would be that it flatters Mundell at the expense of Carmichael, but there you go.
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No granny, it will be the Lib Dems, I think that is a racing certainty if we have a hung parliament.
I do not think the English electorate will tolerate any deal made with the Nationalists, because of the seemingly unfair distribution under the Barnett formula.
If there is turmoil at Westminster in two weeks time, the demolition of Labour in Scotland, it might be an opportune moment for your leader to put a referendum to the people of Scotland proposing secession from the Union, does he have the stomach for it ?
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#207 Stonemason
"If there is turmoil at Westminster in two weeks time, the demolition of Labour in Scotland, it might be an opportune moment for your leader to put a referendum to the people of Scotland proposing secession from the Union, does he have the stomach for it ?"
Yep. There is a draft bill going through scrutiny at Holyrood now for a referendum on St. Andrew's day - 30 November 2010. It won't be debated until after the Westmidden election, when Duff Gordon's fate may have a salutary impact on the "Scottish" Labour MSPs.
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Fair does the nats trawl through the depths of history to heap scorn on the British state, but our Irish and Scottish guests are avoiding embarrassing bits.
My maternal grandma is from an Irish heritage, my sister lives in Dublin, where her husband was born and bred.
I've spent loads of time with Irish folk, in all manner of situations, I'm English, so I'm fully aware of Irish grievances.
Our Welsh nats don't seem realise how much they're disliked by many Irish and Scots. Welsh archers devastated Scots and Irish forces, they ensured Norman/English victories, Edward 1, called the archers...The golden flower of Welsh youth.
Don't mention Croke park, Lloyd George, or the fact that at least 25% of the Black and Tans were Welsh.
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207. Stonemason
"No granny, it will be the Lib Dems, I think that is a racing certainty if we have a hung parliament.
I do not think the English electorate will tolerate any deal made with the Nationalists, because of the seemingly unfair distribution under the Barnett formula.
If there is turmoil at Westminster in two weeks time, the demolition of Labour in Scotland, it might be an opportune moment for your leader to put a referendum to the people of Scotland proposing secession from the Union, does he have the stomach for it ?
"
No individual can "put a referendum to the people". That has to be done by the parliament. Alex Salmond certainly has the stomach for it.
Labour, the Tories and the LibDems are the ones who are afeart to 'Bring It On'. The refuse to agree to a referendum. Why is that do you suppose if they are so sure they would win?
Holding the balance of power in parliament, my dear Stonemason, does not mean making a formal alliance. The SNP and PC have stated time and again that will not do.
It does mean that when one of the parties (probably Tories) need to get anything through parliament they will have to negotiate. There is no guarantee anywhere. Would the Tories WANT to make an alliance with the LibDem? There is a high possibility that rather than agree to very high LibDem demands the LibDem would make including a probable referendum on PR, they would prefer to form a minority government. (Canada for example has had a minority government for more than two years as had Scotland and they are working pretty darn well) That means offering small parties deals in order to get votes.
And even if they made an alliance, there is no guarantee that the LibDems will use the whip to force their members to vote for anything their core voters would find distasteful--which would still mean small parties frequently having the swing vote on some votes.
And the SNP and the PC will have votes that will have to be negotiated for and in a position to bargain for advantages for their own nations.
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For the benefit of the revolting stoneMASON (Boyne?) Scotland can not secede from the united kingdom. Without Scotland there is no Union. How many times do you have to have your lies exposed before you stop with the smear campaign.
And for anybody who doubted that Cameron would listen to Scotland. He obviously does as his ,"Tweedledee, Tweedledum and Tweedledem, " line was stolen from Alex Salmond. 10/10 for listening and 0/10 for thinking up your own lines.
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The right to be heard and the right to die for it
The three Unionists Parties offer us their brand of financial management. None offers us a principle.
The right to be heard in free speech is a principle. This is particularly so at election time.
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207. Stonemason
"I do not think the English electorate will tolerate any deal made with the Nationalists, because of the seemingly unfair distribution under the Barnett formula."
Let me just say that the SCOTTISH electorate will not tolerate any deal that included propping up a Tory government because of the unfair distribution. All very well, reconfigure the settlement. And I would support more going to Wales.
But NOT more to London and all of the items that are currently excluded as "UK" and supposedly benefiting all of us which only benefit London MUST be included. There is no excuse for this. People in Wales are hurt by this arrangement even more than the people of Scotland.
It is time for all of the benefit of this union to NO LONGER go solely to London.
Making deals on individual issues or agreeing to support them on a No Confidence vote in return for their support on something to benefit our nations is quite different than forming a formal coalition. That has never been in question.
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206. Brownedov
"A voodoo poll, as UKPR would call it, and my own view would be that it flatters Mundell at the expense of Carmichael, but there you go.
"
It is, of course, a voodoo poll but since it's the only poll available, I don't think one can fault it being quoted. It is interesting that STV has removed it.
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A chill wind blows through the BBC.
THE BBC ARE NOW BLOCKING SNP BROADCASTS ONLINE.
The censoring of SNP election broadcasts represent a new low for the BBC who have closed all the blogs in Scotland.
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205 GrannieAnne.
That article is only a few months old, I know things haven't changed since, my sister and many of her acquaintances, still head North for the big shop. I think that's brilliant. Northern Ireland retailers are the most profitable on these Sceptred Isles. Thank you, ROI shoppers.
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latest figures show Legal fund reaches £32,710
I'm keeping abreast of changes
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209. Jack_Wilkinson
"Our Welsh nats don't seem realise how much they're disliked by many Irish and Scots. Welsh archers devastated Scots and Irish forces, they ensured Norman/English victories, Edward 1"
Oh, heaven forfend. He claims the Scots are still mad about the Battle of Falkirk (1298). I assure you, we're not. I promise.
Old history, old quarrels, long since forgotten.
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Party poltical manifestos of all parties on IPlayer those coming soon are for the SNP and Traditional Unionist Voice
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219. cynicalHighlander
"Old history, old quarrels, long since forgotten. "
Isn't it fun when naughty people try to drive a wedge between two close countries, who are both fighting for independence from the greedy neighbour.
Won't work i'm afraid, we all have the same goal, and have been driven closer together thanks to some heavy handed blog closing!
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216. Jack_Wilkinson
"my sister and many of her acquaintances, still head North for the big shop"
And? This relates to the GE or Scotland and Wales how?
Ah, right. You're implying that the Republic of Ireland is about to come crawling to London and beg to have their affairs run by London again. And that if someone from Ireland shops in NI this means that we need London running our affairs--somehow.
Pardon me while I laugh.
Next I'm sure Australia will want London once again running their affairs (and none of THEIR banks needed bailing out). And New Zealand will want London running their affairs. And of course Canada will come crawling back, not to mention the USA.
Aye. Right.
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#173. At 2:10pm on 25 Apr 2010, geoff drake wrote:"One hundred and seventy one whining posts from disgruntled supporters of minority parties".
Actually you seem to have a rather uneducated view of the actual rules of the Westminster Parliament. After every election the Monarch invites someone to form a government. That person need not even be an elected person. Not only that but the person need not even be a member of any party and the person can form the government from any persons or parties they see fit. In fact the parliamentary rules hardly recognize that parties exist. All it has to say on the matter is that an elected member can, if they wish, be a party member. There is, of course, a good reason for this. Every elected person represents, legally, ONLY the voters, (all of them), in the constituency the stood for election in. They do not legally represent a political party.
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218
Oh, heaven forfend. He claims the Scots are still mad about the Battle of Falkirk (1298). I assure you, we're not. I promise.
Old history, old quarrels, long since forgotten.
Well Grannie, you would say that, wouldn't you? But, I know you nats have got memories like elephants. See, you instantly recalled the Battle of Falkirk in ........yes 1298!!! Hung by yer old pinnie, Grannie?
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#213, the seemingly unfair distribution
... married into an English family I frequently meet people from the South East, and am reminded frequently that our Health Service in Wales gives greater benefits to me at the expense of the English taxpayers, an illusion I know, I have also been berated because of similar perceptions of care for the elderly in Scotland, until I explain I am not from Scotland.
The fact that the devolved governments decide how to divi up the funding cake is lost on the antagonised English taxpayers, it is perception, I think it will be very difficult for any government to fund a particular region of the UK as an exception to the rule ...
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215. minuend
"THE BBC ARE NOW BLOCKING SNP BROADCASTS ONLINE.
"
Can you give specifics?
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This is wonderful! I've been lurking around this blog for a year or so, gathering opinions and trying to form my own. I haven't posted before, but as I currently live in Edinburgh, I thought I'd join the Scots "refugees". I have to say, based on the arguments made over the years, I'm a Plaid supporter, even though I'm technically English (I identify with Wales far more, and describe myself as Welsh usually). It's good to hear all you Scots giving it to more bilious of the Welsh posters on here. Believe me, the vast majority of Welsh people are much more respectable than they are.
Cheers for giving a timid nat the confidence to post!
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#162 Diabloandco
Thanks. Nice to see you here too!
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#194. At 6:49pm on 25 Apr 2010, Stonemason wrote:"Just for Fo "aming", possibly at the mouth".
Did you not understand the point made about argumentum ad hominem and how any user loses the debate before it begins?
Every time you use it you expose yourself as a loser.
No matter - Thank you for the poll figures that confirm the nationalist campaigns are doing well.
It takes, shall we say, a certain mentality to fail to understand that parties who only have candidates in there own country will show on Britain wide polls as a low return.
Seems like you have managed to be one who fails to understand that little factoid.
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Re 221
Thing is grannie, what the cross border shoppers are demonstrating, and I mean physically demonstrating, is what price nationalism?
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#209 Jack_Wilkinson
"Our Welsh nats don't seem realise how much they're disliked by many Irish and Scots."
I must congratulate you on reaching a perigee of venomous claptrap beneath anything I've yet seen from your fellow britnats on BwB. Ingenious but untrue, of course - rather like hating gauls for having been recruited by the Romans in the invasion of Prydain/Pretan. But even were it true, the Weslsh unionists would be disliked even more.
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225. GrannieAnne
""THE BBC ARE NOW BLOCKING SNP BROADCASTS ONLINE.
"
Can you give specifics? "
GrannieAnne, there is this helpful blog posting here : on Newsnet
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#190. Fitzmark2:
As the one who used the term, "Feisty", to describe the young lady, I will explain my use - just for you. I have long been in the habit of lurking, from time to time, in the blog she hosts. That means I read her actual words. It was her actual writing that made me form my opinion of her. If such as you are mean enough to put that down to, "Buttering her up", then more fool you.
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Re 224
You see, our brit nats are still fighting the old battles of the devolution debate - not as old as the Battle of Falkirk, granted! - and they just can't get over it.
But at least there is a subtle shift, it is now just a perception of unfairness. A small step, but progress, possibly...
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Doust my eyes deceive me, a Hootsmon article which seems sensible and not rapidly anti-SNP, what on earth is going on?
http://news.scotsman.com/politics/Duncan-Hamilton-SNP-may-be.6251693.jp
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Welcome Badger, there was a poster on About Wales, message boards, who started his first post with...I've been lurking around this blog for a while!! You're Raglanroy? Aren't you?
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#229. Jack_Wilkinson wrote:
Re 221
Thing is grannie, what the cross border shoppers are demonstrating, and I mean physically demonstrating, is what price nationalism?
Quite right.
After all you can't have a good going party without heading to Calais with the white van now could you.
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220. Grahame
One just has to show the folly of their rants because that is all the are full of hot air and not a volcano in sight.
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Perhaps you'd all like to see this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hX4LAjBY1E
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223. Jack_Wilkinson
"Well Grannie, you would say that, wouldn't you? But, I know you nats have got memories like elephants. See, you instantly recalled the Battle of Falkirk in ........yes 1298!!! Hung by yer old pinnie, Grannie?"
Of course, I know my country's history. I also know what year the Germans used gas in WWI. I'm no longer mad about that either.
If you don't know your country's history (whether it is the UK or Wales) then you should be ashamed of yourself.
Hoist on your own petard, Jack?
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Jack - No, sorry you have confused with someone else. I guess there must be quite a few other lurkers out there.
O well, back to the shadows with me, I do hope you all keep up with such entertaining and mostly interesting posts. Diolch!
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Oh, c'mon, you sanctimonious British haters, join us fun loving, anti-sectarianism British folk, in toasting Glasgow Rangers triumph.
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#207. At 8:01pm on 25 Apr 2010, Stonemason wrote:
1 - "No granny, it will be the Lib Dems, I think that is a racing certainty if we have a hung parliament".
You utterly miss the point. The Nationalists have no intention of joining ANY Unionist party in coalition. They will take each item on it's merits and do deals by the matters in hand. So they will either vote with, "THE COALITION", or with the opposition to benefit their own countries. So you got it wrong again.
2 - "I do not think the English electorate will tolerate any deal made with the Nationalists, because of the seemingly unfair distribution under the Barnett formula".
You have not yet been able to show figures to prove that the Barnett Formuls does what you claim it does. Can we have the figures please?
3 - "If there is turmoil at Westminster in two weeks time, the demolition of Labour in Scotland, it might be an opportune moment for your leader to put a referendum to the people of Scotland proposing secession from the Union, does he have the stomach for it" ?
We do things in a democratic manner in Holyrood. To have a referendum in Scotland will require that a majority of MSPs of all parties vote for it. You obvious think Mr Salmond can force such a thing upon the Scottish people in the manner of a Westminster Prime Minister exposes your somewhat loose grip upon political reality.
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#233 still unable to read Fo "aming", or are you "granny" in mufty.
... and just for bobkin of the North ...
Today's front page of the Sunday Times:
Conservative ... 35% (up)
Labour ... 27% (down)
Lib Dem ... 28% (down)
SNP ... not reported, irrelevant obviously.
Plaid ... as for SNP.
... the day is over for this Tory, taxes to earn to pay for Scotland; taxes to be wasted by Plaid and chums.
Keep up the good work BBC, another satisfied customer.
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highlandarab,
those folk heading across the English Channel in white vans, are British folk.
Could I suggest, that you study the population mix of Merry England? Or the population mix of South Wales, where English surnames hugely out number Welsh surnames?
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Nearly £33,000 at 19.47, goodness knows what it is now!
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231. Grahame
"GrannieAnne, there is this helpful blog posting here : on Newsnet
"
Tapadh leat.
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#209. At 8:15pm on 25 Apr 2010, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:"Fair does the nats trawl through the depths of history to heap scorn on the British state, but our Irish and Scottish guests are avoiding embarrassing bits".
You can stop right there. We are not about to start ANY kind of hate fest based upon, "ARCHERS", from distant history killing people. The history that HAS been brought up concerns the legal documents that govern the makeup of the present United Kingdom. You want to fight things, like the Battle of The Boyne, again do so somewhere else.
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#236 highlandarab
Nice observation, very good.
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Bernard Ponsonby is on STV NOW with Big Eck
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Once again, Betsan, thank you for the welcome. For those who took part in a good debate, it has been a pleasure. Even for some not so welcoming to those of us from Scotland, perhaps you learned something in spite of yourselves.
Oidhche mhath
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243. Stonemason
"Today's front page of the Sunday Times:
Conservative ... 35% (up)
Labour ... 27% (down)
Lib Dem ... 28% (down)"
Any links to the data?
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#223. At 9:16pm on 25 Apr 2010, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:"Well Grannie, you would say that, wouldn't you? But, I know you nats have got memories like elephants. See, you instantly recalled the Battle of Falkirk in ........yes 1298!!! Hung by yer old pinnie, Grannie?"
Oh! Dear! Now he thinks a Scottish poster is actually holding a grudge because of a battle fought long before her time. It's called History, "Jack", and it is actually taught in our INDEPENDENT Scottish Education system. The lady's instant recall is testament to the excellent INDEPENDENT Scottish Education system.
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#244
So what???
Who cares???
The point is, you have been caught out. The British did the same as the Irish by cross border shopping, very patriotic indeed.
p.s. don't even bother replying your not worth it, you are beneath a response!!!
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Re 247
Please, please ignore Jack. He is himself full of hatred, and looks at opportunities to dig up old hatreds with every message he posts. His hysterical nonsense really isn't worth the bother.
Re 238
Clearly someone didn't like the url, so please if you have time go to youtube and put in: Ron Davies Plaid Cymru
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Re 242,
Sheesh, that was breathless!! That was the most manic uncontrolled, passage of grammar and syntax ever known!!
You show the same rapid building up of rhetorical cadence, of an over excited psychopath!! Chill out, enjoy Rangers triumph?
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i need a second TV - two politics shows on at once!
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245. Diabloandco
A bit more now.
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#224. At 9:17pm on 25 Apr 2010, Stonemason wrote:"The fact that the devolved governments decide how to divi up the funding cake is lost on the antagonised English taxpayers, it is perception, I think it will be very difficult for any government to fund a particular region of the UK as an exception to the rule"
You make the Nationalists case very well. You do realise the exception to the rule is England who are funded as the United Kingdom. If we are to continue with a United Parliament of the United Kingdom the very first thing needed is a unified systyem. So English domestic affairs being dealt with in a UK parliament and England funded as the UK may once have saved the UK. I fear it is now all too late.
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244. At 10:34pm on 25 Apr 2010, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:
highlandarab,
"those folk heading across the English Channel in white vans, are British folk.
Could I suggest, that you study the population mix of Merry England? Or the population mix of South Wales, where English surnames hugely out number Welsh surnames?"
Sorry it is late and you lost me completely.
You were stating that the Irish from Eire were showing poor nationalistic feeling in shopping in Northern Ireland and felt that this improved the NI economy, therefore the UK economy at the expence of the Republics economy
I just pointed out that in the south of the UK there is a tendancy to help the French economy at the expence of the UK economy by buying their cheap alcohol in preference to the higher priced versions available in the UK.
I don't think it matters what your surname is to be able to book a ferry crossing or hire a white van. I don't even think there is a limit on the miles covered so the English and Welsh can equally ruin the UK economy if they feel the need. Scotland is a bit far away and might not be so cost effective.
With a little bit of luck the French will like a strong black stout and the cycle could be complete.
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#226. At 9:34pm on 25 Apr 2010, Badgerthebotanist:
Let me assure you that the SNP, And I believe Plaid, stand for, (in their own words), The People Of Scotland, and, as an Edinburgh resident, you qualify as such. It's not Scots but people of Scotland so the colour, creed and ethnic background mean nothing.
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#240. At 10:22pm on 25 Apr 2010, Badgerthebotanist wrote:"O well, back to the shadows with me, I do hope you all keep up with such entertaining and mostly interesting posts. Diolch"!
If the Welsh regulars will allow a fine old Scottish saying, "Bide a wee",(Stay a while).
"
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255. Jack_Wilkinson
'Nice' bluster, yet you rebut exactly 0 points.
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#241. At 10:23pm on 25 Apr 2010, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:"Oh, c'mon, you sanctimonious British haters, join us fun loving, anti-sectarianism British folk, in toasting Glasgow Rangers triumph".
In the first place what ever gave you the silly idea that we Nationalists hated ourselves? We are, after all British too. Britain is a geographic term, The United Kingdom is about the Monarchy and no one has mentioned ditching the Queen.
Please be aware that football is not politics.
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Auld Bob
"no one has mentioned ditching the Queen"
No one but me :(
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Come on Jack_Wilkinson! I'm waiting for your posts on the topic of this blog (you're not getting away with posting 'off-topic' are you - that would be outrageous ;)
I even asked in direct response to one of your posts some neutral position establishing questions, and instead of answering you seem more intent on matters of nationality and namecalling.
I know you can raise your game :)
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253. At 10:59pm on 25 Apr 2010, DisgustedinDERRY wrote:
#244
, is the
So what??? folk
i
Who cares???
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/irish-shoppers-told-to-serve-their-country-1038878.html
Ha ha, who cares??? Why is it always me? To have to piddle on the parades of vainglorious idiots?
Who cares? Is the Mayor of Dublin, Eibhin Byrne, and the Irish Minister Minister of Finance, Brian Lenihan!! They care, DisgustinginDerry, because they're intelligent folk, who have to face the realism, you don't have to. Is it nice being you? All happy and content in Celtic wonderland?
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#243. At 10:31pm on 25 Apr 2010, Stonemason:
Is it not strange that you can make the claim you are supporting the Scots & Welsh with your taxes when England herself is in Fiscal Deficit. Do you know what that means, "Stonemason"?
I shall define it for you. - "When a government's total expenditures exceed the revenue that it generates (excluding money from borrowings). Deficit differs from debt, which is an accumulation of yearly deficits.
So please explain how a country in Fiscal Deficit can manage to finance itself? If you manage that then perhaps you might then explain how it can finance other countries?
I am not holding my breath.
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mrbfaethedee - where can I find your wee script for the 'reply' button?
I messed up my Firefox so Im running with a vanilla version till I work out what went wrong.
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#244. At 10:34pm on 25 Apr 2010, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:"Could I suggest, that you study the population mix of Merry England? Or the population mix of South Wales, where English surnames hugely out number Welsh surnames"?
Can I suggest you realise that not a single Nationalist has posted anything about where the people of Wales & Scotland originated from. Only that they were now The People of Wales or Scotland. See, thing is we are not racists - you are.
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269. GeneralMalaise
"mrbfaethedee - where can I find your wee script for the 'reply' button?"
bbc comment responder
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#267. Jack_Wilkinson wrote:
"253. At 10:59pm on 25 Apr 2010, DisgustedinDERRY wrote:
#244
, is the
So what??? folk
i
Who cares???
Ha ha, who cares??? Why is it always me? To have to piddle on the parades of vainglorious idiots?"
Eh! What!
You havn't driven a big white van over to Calais recently have you?
What language is that in?
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#254 FoDafydd
"His hysterical nonsense really isn't worth the bother."
Fair enough. Possibly exacerbated by fear that his beloved "official" unionists, unlike their North British oppos, have, like your Eastern neighbours, dropped the "and Unionist" from their descriptions. Could this be a hidden agenda, I wonder?
In the four "home nations", the "officials" are standing as:
● England: Conservative Party Candidate
● Northern Ireland: Ulster Conservatives and Unionists - New Force
● Scotland: Scottish Conservative and Unionist
● Wales: Welsh Conservative Party Candidate
NB: The list is from official nomination sites as the BBC one is oddly inconsistent with them. TTFN
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271. cynicalHighlander
thanks :-)
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240. Badgerthebotanist
Read your post with interest (I've largely reverted to lurking here again). But I found Jack's post to you interesting. He seems to think that blog readers (lurkers) are a tiny number, who shouldn't really intervene. I've always recognised that the lurkers are the important people.
They're not the loudmouths (like me!!!) but the important people who actually vote.
As I lurk, I'd like to see the odd post from you again.
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270. Auld Bob
Anyone notice that "Jack Wilkinson's syntax and style bears a remarkable resemblance to Reluctant Expat on BwB?
I wonder if there is a similar incarnation on Devenport's Diary?
I never really believed the Christian doctrine of the Trinity, but perhaps there is a satanic version of which Jack is but a variant?
Nytol.
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#260 Auld Bob
"(...) the colour, creed and ethnic background mean nothing."
Indeed so. The 'civic nationalism' of the Scottish National Party is something of which it can be justly proud. The inclusiveness and social democracy of the SNP could hardly be more appropriate for a modern political party that seeks not only to represent Scotland but to make the most of its enormous potential, which can only be realized when its people have recovered control over all of its resources and harnessed them for the benefit of everyone who lives there. Not an unreasonable objective, one would have thought.
As for the topic of this thread, Betsan Powys deserves credit for her presentation of two opposing schools of thought, but I doubt whether much clarity on funding for the devolved administrations of the subject nations can be expected in the fog of war that we are struggling to find our way through in this desperately bizarre election campaign.
One thing that is clear, however, is that, as the IMF advises, the unprecedentedly high level of UK public debt has got to start coming down soon, although it is still rising. The credit-rating agencies and the markets will require that action be taken on this after the election. There would seem to be no choice in the matter. What is also clear, I venture to suggest, is that in this situation it will be very difficult for the new UK government to chart a course in respect of Scottish Government funding that will please both Scotland and England, whether Scottish funding is cut deeply or not. If it is cut deeply, the consequences for the Scottish economy, with its large public sector, are liable to be such that voters will be driven into the welcoming arms of the SNP. If by some miracle it is not cut deeply while government spending in England is being cut back to a degree that turns out to be as painful as some fear that it must be, many people in England will not hesitate to condemn what will be represented as preferential treatment for Scotland.
So, whether the UK election result puts the Celtic alliance into a position of influence or not, the dire phase of the economic crisis towards which we are now progressing may reasonably be expected to advance the agenda of independentists, driving anglo-unionists to further paroxysms of highly unprepossessing rage and reducing support for the union between England and Scotland in both countries.
If this development occurs, it will be in line with what is happening elsewhere in Europe at this time. Just recently autonomists and independentists increased their vote substantially in regional elections in Corsica, and the other day Flemish autonomists and independentists caused the Belgian federal government to resign by taking advantage of conditions produced by the economic crisis to push forward their agenda, which broadly consists in acquiring more and more autonomy until so much has been gained that the unity of the state collapses and its viability disappears like snow off a dyke.
Nice to see a welcome in the valleys for a fine body of political refugees fleeing a clampdown on freedom of expression in North Britain. Nighty night.
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oldnat - I shouldn't think they are the same people. You sound just like ~5,000 other posters on various BBC blogs.
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276. oldnat
Where has spinspamspun7 gone???
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By which I mean posters on these Welsh/Scottish blogs fall into 1 of 2 categories: the majority (nationalists), who use these blogs as some kind of Plaid/SNP love fest, spouting conspiracy theories about BBC bias towards Labour/Conservative/Lib Dem/anyone who isn't who they support, and that they are being denied freedom of speech by said BBC (despite there being no English politics blog, let alone one that doesn't close after a few hours). Then there is the minority, who make a few posts here and there about keeping the union, existing solely to be called self haters/bigots/ignorant fools by the first group (or worst of all, a unionist (gulp)). These same posts are repeated ad nauseum by many different posters, until the BBC rightly gets sick of the whole thing and wrongly decides they would be much better off making TV programs with Graham Norton.
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280. Denno
"(or worst of all, a unionist (gulp))"
That's among one of your sillier comments. Being a UK Unionist is a perfectly respectable position. However, it can no longer simply be regarded as the presumptive position.
Those of your persuasion who simply attack SNP/Plaid, and make crude characterisations of their supporters, while offering no positive justification of the Union are welcome to stay in that position. Without understanding that there is an alternative political vision, you are likely to become like the League of Empire Loyalists that I remember. Bewildered by the changes around them, they simply couldn't understand that change was necessary to survive.
And now, definitely!, nytol.
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279. DisgustedinDERRY
"Where has spinspamspun7 gone???
spinspamspun7 was kered, I think. DerekBarker, DerekB amongst others. He had a lucid spell a few months back and talked some sense for a while but not for long, sadly.
"
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Surprise. The BBC doesn't approve a post detailing how to donate to the SNP's legal fund, to challenge the BBC's lack of impartiality.
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I, and a few others, have asked this question on BwB; "Can the Unionists come up with a reason to stay in the Union?".
So far, no Scottish Unionist has even tried to answer that one. Maybe the Welsh Unionists can manage an answer?
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Being a Dundee United supporter let me congratulate Glasgow Rangers on winning the Scottish league.
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280 Denno
If you look under the word "England" and scroll down to the foot - you'll find a political Blog for all the regions of Olde Englande.
Very few comments except for London.
The only political Blog that worries the EBC is the Scottish one - and I guess that is why they keep closing it down.
I guess that is why you have us plaided refugees contributing to Betsan's Blog.
Slainte Mhor
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#285 gedguy2 asks the question ...
"Can the Unionists come up with a reason to stay in the Union?".
Why would a British citizen happy with his or her life, in general, consider such a pathetic question.
Now if you asked the question ...
... "can we leave the Union" ...
... in a referendum to the English public it wouldn't require a pre-referendum yes-no debate, they would be waving you goodbye before the ink was dry on the ballot papers ....
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269. GeneralMalaise
"mrbfaethedee - where can I find your wee script for the 'reply' button?
I messed up my Firefox so Im running with a vanilla version till I work out what went wrong."
It's here at the userscripts site GeneralMalaise.
If you have any problems setting it up, you can comment at the userscripts site if you can't post here.
Thanks for trying it :)
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Sorry for the duplication! Thanks, cynicalHighlander.
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Greetings to all of you from the bright sunlit uplands, it is great having your views and new angles to old debates. You have been a real shot in the arm and the Sad Seven are clearly put out that they are even more in the minority than usual.
To put their views into context, I adopted this name to produce a series of parody rants ('Wales should be a land fit for the English to live in' and so on) reflecting a general fondness for their visceral loathing for Welsh culture and society. These rants were designed to reflect a UKIP / BNP point of view and attracted no criticism from the Sad Seven. You may draw your own conclusions here.
It is clear that the debate has moved a long way on in Scotland, where it is no longer a sin to express any affection for your own country. We are lagging behind in that aspect, but we are catching up.
Regarding the Welsh language, the Sad Seven either want it to be abolished or to be stripped of any form of support whatsoever. In that sense again, Scotland is well ahead. For your information, the Lib Dems have a record of parachuting in monoglot English speakers into Welsh speaking areas such as Ceredigion. Or in the world of Quentin Letts in the 'Daily Mail' (I kid you not) replacing a leading parliamentarian with a librarian.
Well, here we await a referendum in 2011 which will put us (almost) on a level footing with Scotland (i.e. back to where we were in 1405) and all the signs are looking good. Wales is growing up, slowly, painfully but progressively.
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POLLS! POLLS! POLLS!
Does anybody have a link to data for voting intentions to date in Scotland or Wales please? As a Welshman living in Glasgow I have a pretty equal interest in both! Reason I ask is that a brief mention was made of voting intention and trends to date in Wales and Scotland on Radio 4 last night (Westminster Hour), and I wanted to look into this in more depth; but had a quick trawl of the i'net and could only find trends for the 'top 3' i.e. Lib-Lab-Con.
Cheers, SImmo
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Stonemason
Out here in the adult would, if someone says X is better, then they can advance reasons as to why X is better.
Are you saying that you have no logical reasons as to why retaining the Union is better?
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#284 eye_write
"Surprise. The BBC doesn't approve a post detailing how to donate to the SNP's legal fund, to challenge the BBC's lack of impartiality."
Quite so. But no surprise that some in the BBC do get it, viz Andrew Marr in the transcript of yesterday's AM Show:
"So if the court ruled that the third debate had to be blacked out in Scotland, which is what could happen, I don't understand the practicalities of that because, presumably, people can still watch it on their computers? Scots can't be sort of stopped from watching things on computer and so on. Is it actually practical in this day and age to refuse Scottish viewers the chance to see that third debate if that's what happened?"
Unsurprising that he of all people should realise the odds on the challenge succeeding are pretty good. After all, his very readable A victory for the thin-skinned in the Indy of 5 April 1995 begins "The Panorama squabble promotes a mentality that ignores a need for more quality political debate" and goes on to say:
"What principle? We must do some disentangling, for two principles are involved, and they are in conflict. There is, first, the principle that pre-election periods are special, and impose special duties of scrupulous balance on the BBC, alongside the complex rules laid down by the Representation of the People Act.
No one disagrees that this is so - for general election campaigns."
Not that his belief in fairness seems to have survived the transition to BBC London. Pity Alex wasn't given the time to remind him of the days when he was an independently-minded journalist.
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Re 291
The Lib Dem in Ceredigion of course is Mark Williams. He has been telling the electorate of that constituency in his leaflets for over ten years now that he is learning Welsh - well, it's probably time he proved that this wasn't another Lib Dem election leaflet lie. That's not too much to ask is it?
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Fo,
Is he the policeman or the nurse in the leaflets?
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Interesting about the Lib Dems leaflets, but what about the Labour Candidate for South Clwyd, Susan Elan Jones's leaflet that appears to show that Ysgol Y Grango and Wrexham County Borough both endorse her. It also cleverly sidesteps the issue that she has spent years out of the area and gives the impression that she has been a local councillor whereas she was with Southwark for years.
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I'm sickened listening to GB ('Broon' - hehe) on the EBC's News Channel from the RCN conference in Bournemouth telling us how he is NOT making a political point when he says that there won't be NHS cuts under Labour. He then talks incessantly about 'our country'.
The NHS of which 'country' would that be that you're not going to cut, Gord? Is it England, Scotland or Wales?
I'm also sick of incessantly hearing about what's going on in England on this News Channel that my licence fee is funding.
Its interesting to read about how the Trustees of the EBC are appointed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/about/who_we_are/trustees/appointment.shtml
'BBC Trustees are appointed by the Queen on advice from ministers. When new Trustees are needed the posts are advertised. Trustees are chosen on merit. The process is regulated by the independent Commissioner for Public Appointments.' (the CPA works only three days a week!)
'Selection process - Those who apply to be Trustees are shortlisted and interviewed. The interview panel is chaired by a senior civil servant from DCMS (Department for Culture, Media and Sport). The panel also includes an independent assessor and the BBC Chairman. Their recommendation goes to the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, then to the Prime Minister, and finally to the Queen.'
That makes them truly 'independent'. Obviously NOT.
This election 'campaign' is a farce. Next after Broon on my screen appears an Eton educated Tory toff, hotly followed by a Westminster educated clone. These three parties are getting wall-to-wall coverage in my country (not yours, Gord) under the description of 'MAIN'. There are four main parties in Wales and Scotland, but they don't all appear on our screens. The voters in Wales and Scotland are not being fully informed of the choices available to them on May 6. Essentially its electoral manipulation and deception, more typical of banana republics.
One has to conclude that election coverage on the EBC and other licenced public broadcasters is designed to prevent the electoral progress of the SNP and Plaid, and to continue the domination of England and the London parties over the other nations of these islands.
It illustrates the dangers of the absence of a written constitution and a supreme court to uphold it. Instead the power lies with a corrupt and failed political establishment determined to hold on to its power at all costs.
If people are hoodwinked that the Tweedledems are reformers, they are in for a disappoitment. Clegg has ruled out propping up Labour and Broon (if one can believe any pronouncement by a politician) and will therefore have to get into bed with Eton Dave, the arch anti-reformer. Electoral and constitutional reform isn't in the Tory dictionary. If it ever happened they would be wiped out. Much of their historical success has been due to overwhelming control of the press in the UK and massive funding from wealthy donors.
I hope that the SNP makes significant gains on May 6, despite being severely handicapped by the lack of coverage.
We can now clearly see what a sham of a democracy there is in the UK. Its a joke.
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M.203 by GrannieAnne
I assure you GrannieAnne I was not having a pop at "the feisty", "the charming", “the bonny,” Betsan Powys (Heaven forbid) but at Scots nats.
And I used the term "apologise" because several of your compatriots began their hymns of praise to the hostess with the… better not say that …opening expression of: "thank you for allowing us…" It all came across to me as if well you were all humbly apologising for having the temerity to post your nationalistic nonsense.
After all it's just a publically funded debating board and providing we all stick to the rules there's no need to thank anyone for allowing you to post.
And talking of rules… As I understand them one of the rules states that this blog and other blogs are English language blogs and that all expressions in a foreign language should be accompanied by a translation. It doesn't seem to be the case on this blog however. Or perhaps nationalists of either ilk are exempt from the rule.
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This election is really an English general election - it has nothing to do with Northern Ireland, Scotland nor Wales. This is fast becoming a trend.
The last few elections have confirmed;
the Tories as being the Little Englander Party - LEP,
Labour as the Muddled England Party - MEP,
UKIP as the Nutty English Party - NEP
and the BNP as the English Nutter Party - ENP.
This forthcoming election will confirm the LibDems as being the Insipid English Party - IEP.
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#280. At 01:14am on 26 Apr 2010, Denno wrote:
1 - "By which I mean posters on these Welsh/Scottish blogs fall into 1 of 2 categories:".
Only two? That is a surprise.
2 - "The majority (nationalists), who use these blogs as some kind of Plaid/SNP love fest, spouting conspiracy theories".
You seem oblivious to the simple fact that you have just dreamt up your very own conspiracy theory. The Nationalist posters are all individuals and do not know each other in off net situations.
3 - "Anyone who isn't who they support, ... ... ... ":Onthe cotrary every nationalist supporter is here for only one purpose - to engage with those holding opposite views to their own - and to refute, or prove wrong, those views that are so obviously either lies or wrong beliefs.
4 - "Then there is the minority, who make a few posts here and there about keeping the union, existing solely to be called self haters/bigots/ignorant fools by the first group (or worst of all, a unionist (gulp))". Utter stuff and nonesense. the only ones called ignorant fools are because they are ignorant fools. Let me, without naming names, give you an example: - A Unionist poster claims that England is subsidising Wales, Scotland and N.Ireland. Now such claims are rife throughout the United Kingdom and they are very obviously utter nonsense, So any Unionist who posts such rubbish is obviously a fool a liar or both. Are you really claiming anyone who knows the truth should just shut up and accept the lies?
Here are a few quite short facts to prove my point.
There are no figures for English only revenues and expendatures. So explain what figures the Unionist is using?
If the three non-English countries in the union are such a big drag upon English taxpayers why have not the 533 English MPs at Westminster cast out the 59 Scots, 40 Welsh and 18 Northern Irish MPs and insured England's taxpayers were free from the burden of carrying the rest of us upon their backs? Don't you find it strange that the Nationalists can all bring forth figures to prove their point but, in all my nearly 70 years in political debate, had a single person of the Unionist persuasion ever prove that England subsidises anyone - Not even my own MP Gordon Brown. So, if the Unionists do not want to be called liars and fools then don't tell lies or claim foolish things. Did you know that England has been, for years, in Fiscal Deficit? Any country in Fiscal Deficit is unable to pay her own way - so pray do explain to us all how England can manage to subsidise the Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish while having a fiscal deficit of her own?
Now ... ... ... You were saying something about fools?
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Re 296
WelshKnot
No, he's been the pretend MP for the last five years.
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re #300 Fitzmark2
I don't think I noticed anyone posting "foreign languages", Fitzy-boy. Aye, there were a few phrases in Welsh, Gaelic and Lallans, but I think you'll find those are classed as indigenous in a UK context (two out of three predating English). The former most certainly isn't "foreign" on a Welsh political discussion forum -- unless you're going to complain about Betsan using it in her own blog!
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Welsh LibDems impersonating police officers.Labour impersonating Elvis.Cameron frantically running around with his sleeves permanently rolled up so we forget he's an Old Etonian.A Labour candidate on Twitter wishing he had a "slave-grown" banana.A party leader(UKIP) who can't remember what's in his manifesto.Bizarre yes, but indicative of the lack of sense,honesty,composure in the Unionist parties as the British state falls apart.Even the once urbane Foreign Office is now clearly staffed by boorish vulgarians.Do you really want Scotland and Wales to be represented in foreign relations by this institution?
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If anyone's interested, BwB is now open. No acknowledgement of the fact that the blog has been closed for 5 days during the heart of the Election Campaign. No excuses. Business as usual.
Personally speaking, I'm staying here.
Not that I'm advocating a boycott, mind.
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And SNP legal fund reaches £40,682!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
300 FitzMark
Just FYI
Slainte Mhor simply means "Big Health"
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I'm sticking with Betsan.
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And we get modded faster here as well.
Thank You, Betsan's Mods, it is possible to carry on a decent "conversation" here.
Thanks also WelshKnot and FoDaffyd - much as I had suspected. Libdems only guilty parties ? Further Q Do all Plaid candidates have at least a smattering of the tounge ?
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#288. At 09:08am on 26 Apr 2010, Stonemason wrote:
1 - "Why would a British citizen happy with his or her life, in general, consider such a pathetic question". Is it a disease of Unionists that they feel compelled to speak on behalf of all the people of the United Kingdom?
The answer is that they all no not.
2 - "to Now if you asked the question, 'can we leave the Union'":No one asked that question but read on.
3 - "In a referendum to the English public it wouldn't require a pre-referendum yes-no debate, they would be waving you goodbye before the ink was dry on the ballot papers,":
This is yet more rather stupid Unionist lies, propaganda and deception. Furthermore, as usual, it shows your capacity to assume to be spokesperson for the entire population.
Here though, are the real facts. Northern Ireland has a population of around 1.7 Million but Ireland, as a whole has already split in two with the Republic showing no wish to return into the fold.
Walesw has a population of around 3 million people and her people have fought for and won some devolved rule.
Scotland has a population of about 5 million and has a devolved Parliament and is fighting foir more home control.
England has a population between 65 and 70 million and there is little sign of any great wish for any form of devolution or independence. What little activity there has been is firmly based upon either bigotry, racism or envy of the Scots.
Now can you explain why, with all those millions of people and with enough MPs to outvote all others put together there is no great movement to ditch those of us they claim to subsidise?
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Fo,
That explains a lot. I think he believes his job consists of pointing to objects so that the local papers can print photos of him pointing at things. I am sure somebody would be happy to do the same at a far lower cost.
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Am I the only one that thinks that Plaid are making a big fuss about not being allowed on the same platform as the leaders of the 3 main parties is because they think they are facing a drubbing in the Election and they want a ready made excuse and someone to blame..
Some people think that the billions that they have spent on "saving" the Welsh Language could have given us a first rate health service.
I also think that it is tragic that it looks as though the UK will be destroyed from within, by a small number of nationalists, who think they are important enough to change the course of history...
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#300. At 11:42am on 26 Apr 2010, Fitzmark2 wrote:"And I used the term "apologise" because several of your compatriots began their hymns of praise to the hostess with the… better not say that …opening expression of: "thank you for allowing us…".
Your remarks, or should I describe it as where you, "apologise", to a Scottish poster, shows beyond doubt, that you do not understand the campaign of being waged upon the Nationalists in Scotland by the Establishment. Our version of this blog often gets closed. There are sometimes gaps before it returns, we are modded so much that the debate is smothered and, the latest ploy, is to remove Betsan Powys' blog data from the other bloggers that are shown down the right hand side of Brian Taylor's blog. So, asy yourself, why are they so set upon blocking out the supporters of the largest political party in the Scottish parliament?
Also, why are the Unionist posters on this blog so intent upon keeping other points of view suppressed. What are they all so frighnened of if they think our case is so poor?
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Re 311
Chiefy - I cannot speak with total authority, but I suspect that some of the Plaid candidates in for example South East Wales are not fluent Welsh speakers, or not Welsh speakers at all. Despite the anti-Welsh postings, you'll find that many in Y Blaid are relaxed about the language. A truly bi-lingual Wales is the aspiration (and looking at the way my children are now fluent Welsh speakers, that is more and more the reality), but when the majority do not speak Welsh, you have to engage with the majority and win their support and sympathy.
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#307. At 12:16pm on 26 Apr 2010, eye_write wrote:"And SNP legal fund reaches £40,682"!
Great - I'm just a pensioner but I sent them a 3 figure sum late this very morning. I'm sure I can do without a few of the luxuries I was saving for and wait a little longer for them.
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#303 by Auld Bob
Every taxpayer in Britain contributes to the national pot, which is then apportioned via the Barnett Formula to the regions.
People living in England, and who are now, post devolution, beginning to identify in this fracturing British State with the notion of Englishness, represent the greater proportion of the population of Britain.
It follows that we, the English tax payers disproportionately contribute to the Barnett Formula. It is therfore definitely not a lie to say that we contribute handsomely to the way of life of the Scots. And I repeat you will have a rude awakening if ever the essential life line to the Scottish economy is irrevocably severed from England.
I also believe Gordon Brown has told Alex Salmond its either North Sea oil or the Barnett Formula – you don't get both.
And I certainly hope that the constant nationalist stirring for the "return" of Berwick to Scotland is stamped-on before Scots nats get their selves into a position where they can do to a part of Northumberland what the devious Welsh nationalists did to the once English county of Monmouthsire.
And you and your nationalist friends (not a conspiracy; just birds of a political feather...) are giving support to an undemocratic and noisy bunch of Welsh nationalists.
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#314. At 12:57pm on 26 Apr 2010, cleverelliejo wrote:"
1 - Am I the only one that thinks that Plaid are making a big fuss about not being allowed on the same platform as the leaders of the 3 main parties".
Of course you are not the only one - there are lots of people around who would like te destroy democracy.
2 - "I also think that it is tragic that it looks as though the UK will be destroyed from within, by a small number of nationalists, who think they are important enough to change the course of history".
Now what was that I was saying about democracy? Oh! Yes! Now I remember - Whatever gave you the idea that a small handful of Nationalists could do anything of the sort? If they do manage to gain independence for their respective countries it can only be done by a majority of that countries voters voting with them. Ergo - there is no way a small handful of anything can force anything upon anyone in a democratic setup. So what are you worried about?
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Re M 304 by Uilleam_beag
It is a house rule of the BBC whether the languages are British or not to provide a translation if one uses an expression which is not in English.
And just out of interest, what does your nick name translate to?
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Auld Bob,
The Fitz's remarks (318) need some translation:
'The once English county of Monmouthshire' makes just as much sense as the 'once English region of France'.
'An undemocratic and noisy bunch of Welsh nationalists' refers to the 80% of the Welsh electorate who support devolution.
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Re 315
"So, asy yourself, why are they so set upon blocking out the supporters of the largest political party in the Scottish parliament?"
Well Auld Bob I can't really answer that question. I could add my two penneth worth, for what its worth, and say possibly its because people within the BBC hierarchy are still very fond of the term British and like me would not like to see Scotland cut its link with England.
I could also put this question to you: Why do you think the BBC in its infinite wisdom closed down all the BBC England Message Boards?
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#318. At 1:25pm on 26 Apr 2010, Fitzmark2 wrote:
1 - "Every taxpayer in Britain contributes to the national pot, which is then apportioned via the Barnett Formula to the regions".
Sorry to tell you this - You are wrong.
First - While everyone does contribute to th UK coffers there are other incomes from other than individual people.
Second - The UK is not,"A" country and thus it cannot have regions of, "A" country.
Third - England is not subject to the Barnett Formula and thus has an uncapped and diverse allocation of funds.
2 - People living in England, and who are now, post devolution, beginning to identify in this fracturing British State with the notion of Englishness, represent the greater proportion of the population of Britain.
First - They do indeed make up the largest portion of the population of The United Kingdom. However, as well as contributing most in total they do not necessarily contribute most on a per capita basis. Strawman point.
Second - As they make up the largest proportion of the UK population they also require the largest proportion of funds spent on them. Then there is the difference between largest sum spent upon the number of the population and the per capita sum spent upon them.
"It follows that we, the English tax payers disproportionately contribute to the Barnett Formula.Strawman point Remember the per capita income and output differs from the largest number.
Wrong.
3 - It is therfore definitely not a lie to say that we contribute handsomely to the way of life of the Scots. It is indeed a lie as you are not taking things on a per capita basis.
4 - "And I repeat you will have a rude awakening if ever the essential life line to the Scottish economy is irrevocably severed from England".
See above and what is to follow.
5 - I also believe Gordon Brown has told Alex Salmond its either North Sea oil or the Barnett Formula – you don't get both.
You can believe what you like but that does not make it the truth. Now I will tell you the truth and the legal position.
International law has designated 98% of the oil bearing areas of the North Sea lie within terrirory recognized as Scottish territorial Waters. This means, as Scots law is independent of English/Welsh law that the Scottish legal system has jurisdiction over everything that lies in Scottish territory. Now,to explain to you how the UK got round that little legal fact - The UK designated the whole North Sea asExtra-Regio Territory. It most certainly is not extra-regio as it lies within Scotland's territory. When we become Independent England, Wales and Northern Ireland will br left with 2% of the North Sea Revenues between them.Note - Extra Regio is defined as "Territory that cannot be besignated within the Country or Union's limits. It includes such as foreign embassy and bases.
6 - "And I certainly hope that the constant nationalist stirring for the "return" of Berwick to Scotland is stamped-on before Scots nats get their selves into a position where they can do to a part of Northumberland what the devious Welsh nationalists did to the once English county of Monmouthsire".
Your grasp on history is as bad as your grasp on geography. Suffice to say that the border has shifted as far south as Teeside and as far north as the Forth/Clyde vally.
7 - "And you and your nationalist friends (not a conspiracy; just birds of a political feather...) are giving support to an undemocratic and noisy bunch of Welsh nationalists.
Rubbish and lies. You seem not to know what democratic means.
Now - further to your, "Beliefs", on the funding of the United Kingdom - England, and only England, is funded in a different manner to the rest of the UK - in fact it is funded,AS THE UK.
So, as such things as Extra-Regio income, Crown Estate Royalty and rentals and several other things goes right into the same UK coffers as England directly from, then false accounting shows it as English income, (which it is not). Then there is the fact that most UK wide firms have registered head offices in London and they pay tax, including VAT, earned in all the UK countries in London. The portion of tax earned outwith England will, on independence, return to the country where it was earned.
Still think Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish folks are in for a rude awakening? It you do you are a dreamer and living in a different World from the real one.
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A late thought on the "Prime Ministerial" debates:
Assume there is a balanced Parliament - very likely. Assume Clegg is not prepared to work with either Brown or Cameron - very likely.
But assume Clegg says he could work with Milliband or Johnson if Cable has Treasury - anything is possible these days. So Queen is advised to invite Johnson or Milliband to form a Government and become Prime Minister.
Question - where did "Prime Ministerial" debates fit in this.
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#321. At 2:00pm on 26 Apr 2010, WelshKnot wrote:
Re the Fitz remarks -'The once English county of Monmouthshire' makes just as much sense as the 'once English region of France'.
I make it a rule for myself to NOT reply to things I don't understand, (I do though, make sure I read up on any such thing). That does not mean I don't make mistakes but at least I try not to.
'An undemocratic and noisy bunch of Welsh nationalists' refers to the 80% of the Welsh electorate who support devolution.
Indeed I did refer to ideas of democracy. I have been quite surprised just how many people are prepared to just chant a mantra like the Credo.
You know the kind of thing - "I believe in ******** and, although I don't understand it, if Dave/Gordon/Nick or whoever says so it's all right by me". Worse still it is these kind who always attempt to tell people who do know they are wrong.
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Re 323
You can spin it and spin as much as you like, and I'd wish you would stop using that term "lies", to suggest that an alternative argument to the spin nationalists constantly put out is in fact a lie.
You Scottish nationalists on this blog are the most arrogant, patronising and pompous people I have ever had the misfortune to come across.
The Barnett Formula, and I didn't use the term UK, I said Britain, apportions money to the regions based upon population figures, development needs and other criteria.
Since devolution the way the monies were originally proportioned has led to worrying anomalies. And one of those anomalies is that Scotland gets a disproportionate amount of support, and that is factual.
Scotland gets per person £5271 in support.
Wales gets per person £5052 in support
England gets per person £4283 in support
Those figures are not lies they are factual.
And I don’t need any lessons from you on the history of these islands, and particularly on questions of Monmouthshire’s legal identity prior to 1972.
And like that other pompous character Browndov if you think that pushing through fundamental changes to constitutions on flimsy winning margins and turnouts of a couple of points over 50% then you are beyond the pale of democratic accountability.
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271. cynicalHighlander
And thanks from me too! Clever stuff! Other stuff here
;-)
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Re 321
'The once English county of Monmouthshire' makes just as much sense as the 'once English region of France'.
I'm not even going to address that stupid comparison. Monmouthshire was a legally defined English county prior to 1972.
And I have a strong feeling that you have passed this way before under a different soubriquet. Am I right, or am I right?
'An undemocratic and noisy bunch of Welsh nationalists' refers to the 80% of the Welsh electorate who support devolution."
The spin from nationalists takes some beating, but that must surely be the spin of the year. 80% of the population of Wales are Welsh nationalists. Well I never.
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299. Bryn_Teilo
"We can now clearly see what a sham of a democracy there is in the UK. Its a joke. "
A bad joke.
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Re 322
So there we are, a further example of shoddy thinking. Fitz says Scotland shouldn't split from England, as he indeed goes on, incessantly, that Wales should not split from England - absolute proof therefore that it isn't Britain, it isn't Britishness he cares about, it's about being attached politically and culturally to England. In other words he gives priority to England, and the rest of us should behave in a way which he believes is best for England.
So his claim that he is an unionist is bogus.
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#322. At 2:13pm on 26 Apr 2010, Fitzmark2 wrote:"Well Auld Bob I can't really answer that question"
I can tell you the answer - they have preached a mantra to Scots people, (I'm not speaking about English people here but about Unionists). This mantra went, "You're too small, You're too poor, Your too bloody stupid". They also, by law, stopped the Scots wearing either Highland dress or even Tartan, They punished Scots for speaking either of their own languages and they cleared, not just the Highlands, but the whole country of many of their people. I was belted with the Tawse every single lesson right through my schooldays for using my Lowland Scots language in class. Believe it or not but this proscription of our language did not stop until the 1990s. I still used my own language to upset them then came first or second in every English test I sat.
Here is a little Scottish history for you. In Scotland's Lowland farms the workers never had a home. Single men lived in a common building called, "A Bothy", single women, (Kitchies), were housed in the farmhouse. Married couples got a , "Pluckie's Raw", (Ploughman's Row), hovel. This accomodation went with the job. Once every year they had, "a Feeing Market", and every worker packed their, "Pluckie's Kist", (Plowman's Chest), and sat on this at the market. If they were lucky they got Fee'd back on. If not they were out of a job and out of a home. Then the law changed. They brought in the, "Vagrancy Acts", and arrested anyone, "With no visible means of Support". These ended up either in the Poorhouse, Workhouse or were Transported to the Colonies as convicts. Would you believe that law was only repealed in the 1990s? So it had little to do with the English as many of these landlords and farmowners were Scots. What they all had in common was they were members of the Establishment. The BBC and the main political parties are, together with the police, law and armed forces - The Establishment.
So when you say, "I could add my two penneth worth, for what its worth, and say possibly its because people within the BBC hierarchy are still very fond of the term British and like me would not like to see Scotland cut its link with England" you have hit a large nail on the head. As to Being British, Scotland, Wales, N'Ireland and England cannot stop being part of Britain, Neither can they stop being part of the United Kingdom as they still all have the same monarch. All that will change, and it will change, is the four home countries will stop having a joint parliament and run their own affairs. It will then be up to the respective parliaments to negotiate how well or badly they co-operate together. It will though be free choice - not forced upon us all.
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328
I was Returnee - as explained in a previous blog.
Sorry, you are gloriously, hilariously and wonderfully wrong about Monmouth’s status. I believe that the Pontypool front row did not change its allegiance in 1972!
80% of the population of Wales supports devolution. The Sad Seven tars everybody who has any degree for Wales, Welsh and Welsh culture as ‘Nats’ (sorry, NATS) and the rest of Wales carries on supporting devolution.
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326. Fitzmark2
Links to your figures are required for verification otherwise one takes them with a pinch of salt, when did England become 1 region I understand its made up of numerous regions.
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What ever a nationalist of your ilk FoDafydd says I am, I am not. How does that piece of "shoddy thinking" grab you. When you put a coherent thought together let me know and I'll try really hard to make you understand my position.
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Re 330
And I forgot to add FoDafydd (whatever that name means)that I have never said that I'm a unionist. I am a common or garden English speaking Brit, and I imbided my language and culture with my mother's milk, so to speak.
Have a good evening, I'm away to do abit of gardening.
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The Fitz is having a fit...
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326. Fitzmark2
"Barnett Formula"
Those figures are remarkably low. Which year are you quoting?
The 2007 per capita data was (for attributable expenditure)
Northern Ireland £9,385
Scotland £8,623
Wales £8,139
England £7,121
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Re332
I knew it, you are that nasty little beggar who had my responses to your chidish reply to the post when I made a couple of spelling mistakes, bounced back to me.
And for your information I played in the same team as your so called Welsh heroes and they were never as nasty as you Welsh nationalists.
Oldnat Re 337
I will accept that my figures are a couple of years old, but the thrust of my argument with Auld Bob are not lies but factual.
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I see the "Welsh Knut" is back, still trying to hold back the tide of progress.
Down 5% or 6% in the polls, Plaid that is, no mention in the Newspapers, no participation in the debates, reality has returned to the valleys of Wales; political meltdown is looming for the Welsh extremists of Plaid.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/7354446.stm
Re 332.
For the attention of WelshKnot, who knows absolutely zilch about English Monmouthshire, even BBC Wales? Acknowledges the uniqueness of this border county, with its motto of...Usque Fidelis' or Faithful to both.
BBC Wales, said this-
It is, perhaps, a bit of a cliche to describe this rural county as more English than Welsh. Nevertheless, according to the Labour Force Survey, only just over half of Monmouthshire's population consider themselves Welsh. The latest census information also shows the area has the lowest number of Welsh speakers.
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Re 339
"no mention in the Newspapers, no participation in the debates"
Ah, we can always depend on our friend Stonemason not to make any secret of his distaste for democracy if it helps retain the hegemony of his little world.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I just listened to the Lib Dem Party Political Broadcast, excellent opportunity for disgruntled Plaid supporters, there is much to commend in its proposals.
My only distaste Fo is for the Nationalists, your Plaid in particular, much like the wreckers of Jamaica Inn (Daphne du Maurier 1936).
The Black Swan that brought about the banking crisis will probably bring about the demise of Plaid, other factors as well, as the politicians realise that there is no mileage co-operating with Separatists, I noticed that Jeremy Paxman spoke of Plaid and Independence in the same breath, whilst the Plaid economic spokesperson attempted to make little of its aspirations, well done J.P..
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No words of mine.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/elections/local_council/08/html/pp.stm
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Re 343
Sorry Stonemason, but you betray your anti-democratic views far too often. And you've done so again tonight. Still, I suppose I should be gentle with you; you've been spouting for weeks how the toff Cameron is going to sweep the board, but another rich kid seems to have spoilt the party! Rather less 'the future's blue' from you these days!
Re 344
I'm not going to bother saying anything more than that I'm bored with your one and only point, which you make every single time on here. I'm also bored with the same useless url's. I'm surprised you don't bore yourself.
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Re 333
CynicalHighlander, don't take in too much salt it increases blood pressure and the Scots' diet leaves much to be desired as it is.
Just type in to a search engine Barnett Formula for a breakdown of the regional figures for England.
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338, 339, 340
The Sad Seven have returned. More bitter and less informed than ever. I wonder who they were canvassing for all day?
I cannot be bothered talking to brick walls, so I take my leave, to return to the land of the sane majority.
To all from Scotland, many thanks for refreshing the blog. Common-sense will prevail, the extremists will be exposed for what they are and the people of Wales and Scotland will get a fair deal.
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Boo hoo Foo, the future seems to be moving towards a lighter shade of blue, it's true, not the green of sundering Plaid (yesterday's party), so I am happy.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
347. WelshKnot
"Common-sense will prevail, the extremists will be exposed for what they are and the people of Wales and Scotland will get a fair deal. "
Any idea when this awaited dawn might come?
The only problem with Common Sense is it's rarity. (apologies to Ben Franklin)
-- Ben Franklin 1729
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Re: 343
'...I noticed that Jeremy Paxman spoke of Plaid and Independence in the same breath, whilst the Plaid economic spokesperson attempted to make little of its aspirations, well done J.P..'
Maverick Tory blogger, & tweeter, Guido Fawkes noted whilst watching last night's 'Newsnight':
"Some Welsh bloke has just given Paxo a bitch slapping and told him to do his homework. Marvellous."
Judge for yourselves - it's about 35 mins 45 secs in:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00s7s90/b00s7s87/Newsnight_26_04_2010/
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346. Fitzmark2
"Just type in to a search engine Barnett Formula for a breakdown of the regional figures for England."
Why not have a look in Country and Regional Analysis (CRA) A bit more up to date than your funny numbers.
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RE 347
"338, 339, 340
The Sad Seven have returned."
You are not very good at mathematics are you Mr Identity changer. Not surprising really going by the paucity of intelligence in your childish posts.
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I prefer the government figures relating to the Barnett Formula. There is a wealth of information in the recent reports into the disproportion help the Scots get from the way the national wealth is distributed to the regions of Great Britain. Well worth a read.
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354. Fitzmark2
"I prefer the government figures relating to the Barnett Formula."
HM Treasury! are government figures or is it that they show your numbers as mince well seasoned to hide the bits that are off.
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Re 355
I've tried to say that Fitz and his tiny cabal of rather unintelligent reactionary right wing fellow posters aren't worth the bother - you don't seem to have quite grasped this yet!
The problem is that he, and they, will not engage in intelligent debate -to be fair, I know it's beyond them - so, please, don't waste your time on them. Engage with those who are able to participate. We live in very interesting times, and there are interesting things to be discussed - new scenarios, new arguments, new possibilities. Some are just not interested, and if they're left behind, that's their problem.
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Re 356
Well Fo I’ve said on several occasions that I do not have the god like qualities of nationalists, but I do have sufficient intelligence to see that the Assembly in Cardiff Bay is an unnecessary, extra tier of government and that those who support it are at best ragged trousered philanthropists, at worst undemocratic nationalists intent on feathering their own nests.
Re 355
To be honest with you CynicalHighlander, I didn’t even click on the link you provided.
The consensus on the question of the way the national wealth is awarded to the regions of Britain is that the Barnett Formula is in need of reform. It is also the case that the present distribution to the regions of the national wealth favours Scotland and Wales.
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357. Fitzmark2
"Assembly in Cardiff Bay is an unnecessary, extra tier of government ..."
So why not shed the tier above?
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#358,
The tier you refer to is our prefered government, regional governance by 2nd division politicians at the Black Lagoon is ........
...... pathetic in the extreme, maybe not the Lib Dems and Conservative members, with the yellow - blue politicians we have an opposition to the sunderers in waiting.
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359. Stonemason
"The tier you refer to is our prefered government, "
According to you, maybe. Di I detect a "Imperial" plural?
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Re 360
Ah, indeed, and not for the first time! He also seems very keen on jumping into bed with the Lib Dems now. All very royal behaviour.
And, hilarity upon hilarity, he now seems to regard Tory and Lib Dem AM's as intellectual and political giants.
Never a dull moment. But, then again, not a moment's consistency.
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Jim, the only Imperial I know is a mint, are they still made, the we is a unionist we.
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Re.358 Big Jim
"So why not shed the tier above?"
Hey Jim, if that were to happen you'd be able to attach "Lemmings" to Plaid Cymru's name. It would be an appropriate addition as they lead the people of Wales over the cliff to economic disaster.
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363. Fitzmark2
"Hey Jim, if that were to happen you'd be able to attach "Lemmings" to Plaid Cymru's name. It would be an appropriate addition as they lead the people of Wales over the cliff to economic disaster."
Broon's already done that and there are more than enough repeats on the Beeb invest in a parachute it will soften the impending crash.
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Re 364
You can blame Gordon Brown for many things but not for the economic catastrophe that has resulted from thirteen years of devolution in Wales. Recent reports by respected institutions have shown that Wales as a region is way down the list of socio/economic well being in Britain. And that is down to years of mismangement by the shysters in Cardiff Bay.
And do you mean by "parachute" that system by which MPs get a golden handshake when for whatever reason they leave Parliament? Now there's around three million in Wales so that would mean alot of dosh being spent. Far beyond the capability even of the spin doctors of Welsh nationalism to justify I would have thought.
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365. Fitzmark2
"You can blame Gordon Brown for many things but not for the economic catastrophe that has resulted from thirteen years"
of his stewardship?
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365. Fitzmark2
"
And do you mean by "parachute" that system by which MPs get a golden handshake"
No the UK economy hasn't hit the bottom yet by a long way so we either float down gently or go freefall, ouch. Brown's economics have worked on borrowing more on credit and showing this as growth by putting it on the income side of the books great for polictical points as the accounts are not independently audited and dont forget the printing presses have been going good style.
Brown's Banking Losses Not in 2009 Accounts
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