Grounded
Ieuan Air has landed ... for the last time.
That turbulence that had been threatening the service for some time has finally engulfed it.
Highland Airways, who operate the flight between Cardiff and Anglesey, have gone into administration, putting a hundred jobs at substantial risk and grounding the North South airlink in Wales.
What's flying about now? Accusations that too much of our money has been spent on keeping "a dead duck service" operating, as the Liberal Democrats put it.
Granted, the problems that have hit Highland Airways aren't linked to this particular flight. I don't know on what grounds exactly the Assembly Government claim it to be "a huge success" but there's no question that it's been more popular as far as passenger numbers go than many had expected.
All the same does that make it a "vital service" at a time when money is eye-wateringly tight?
The Assembly Government would like to get it off the ground again as soon as possible and Monday, will be looking for another company to take it over in the short term. Will anyone take it on for not a penny more money in subsidy than Highland Airways were getting? If not, the service is grounded for good, a cut some may rue more than others.
And on that point ... an obvious 'someone' that might spring to mind is Ieuan Wyn Jones, the AM for Anglesey and Deputy First Minister who has spent quite a bit of time on board and money on tickets and whose name has become synonymous with the flight.
Fair to point out then that the service was born under a Labour administration, a matter of weeks before Plaid came into government.
So which party will now step forward to argue more money should be spent resuscitating it?
UPDATE
Overheard at an Open University event in the Wales Millennium Centre last night? The Presiding Officer telling his audience that he would make no apologies to the Welsh Liberal Democrats for using the airlink to fly home tomorrow.
No apologies needed after all, Lord Elis-Thomas.
Map of the A470 anyone?
I'm Betsan Powys, BBC Wales' political editor. I'll be blogging the inside track on 
© 2012~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~58~RS~)
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Pretty much inevitable really. Here is the view from Anglesey on the grounding: http://druidsrevenge.blogspot.com/2010/03/ieuan-air-goes-bust.html
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It really is astonishing given the cutbacks that the Assembly will face over the next few years that Ieuan Wyn Jones should be considering looking for another operator. Besides the money from the Assembly the company also received £464,000 from the Western Isles Council. The management buyout when the previous compny failed also could not have got off the ground without £620,000 from the Highlands and Islands Enterprise Board. A year later they received another grant from HIE of £103000 for fleet expansion. Not bad for a company that had started off life as a flying school. One of the results of public sector cutbacks will definitely be a reduction in the money from the Assembly to local government. This will probably mean less money for subsidised bus services. The political elite can it seems fly from one end of Wales to another whilst Joe Public in parts of rural Wales including Ynys Mon will be lucky to find a bus. What did a famous Welsh politician once say about priorities?
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Betsan:
"The Presiding Officer telling his audience that he would make no apologies to the Welsh Liberal Democrats for using the airlink to fly home tomorrow."
I not only overheard the comment, I had the misfortune to have to sit and listen to it.
It was wholly inappropriate to be made in front of an invited audience at the launch of the Open University's new course. It was an arrogant and boastful remark about an alleged benefit the Assembly had brought to the Welsh public. His sad little joke about the A470 was not well received. I hope he enjoys the drive up North in his expenses paid car and takes in the beauty of Wales in the rain and mist.
Whether the North/South link was profitable or not, with or without a subsidy, the 'green' benefits of flying referred to by Lord Thomas in his speech was an astonishing claim. The only green thing about flying is Wales looks green from the air.
The problems presented by the geography of Wales makes it very difficult to provide direct surface links between different centres of population. It is understandable that North Wales want a more convenient way of travelling to Cardiff, but Valley is a long way from many of the towns especially Flintshire, If an airlink is provided through an Assembly subsidy why shouldn't an air link also be provided between Withebush and Broughton? So why Anglesy? IWJ et al perhaps?
Lord Daffydd Ellis Thomas, the Assembly's Presiding Officer has had his comeuppance this morning.
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Well, it looks like our deputy 1st minister is reluctant to comment on the failure of an airline which he, more than anyone else championed. Maybe it's time to show another example of Ieuan Wyn-Jones belittling (whoops) himself whilst feebly trying to defend the indefensible.
http://www.newswales.co.uk/index.php?F=1&id=3048§ion=Politics
Makes you proud to be Welsh eh !!!!!
Just imagine, if John Redwood had behaved like that on Question Time we would all be able to see the video recording of it.
BBC favouritism....surely not !
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It takes me at least six hours to get to Ynys Mon on that main artery (Stuck behind Tractors, Lorries, Caravans, Dawdling drivers) route the A470.
I've no choice we couldn't afford to travel by plane up there.
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4. Noah_sembly
'News Wales' the source........
Surprise surprise 'The Wales Labour Party'.
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Alfsplace (Message 5)
I'm surprised you ever reach there Alf...the A470 doesn't even go to Ynys Mon (or Anglesey as its more popularly known)
Could it be that the wily folk of Llandudno have been fooling you all these years?
Sorry mate, couldn't resist it.
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Ieuan Air was always an indulgent and expensive nonsense. Good riddance!
If we really want to improve north-south links then fill in the gaps and give us a Bangor to Swansea rail service. Making travel from Holyhead to Newport feasible without leaving Wales.
Such a line would be popular with locals and - with a little imagination - might go a long way to alleviating the problems of tourist traffic in the summer.
Reopen a few feeder lines to places like Cardigan and Dolgellau, synchronise timetables with buses and narrow gauge lines, and not only would we have a genuine north-south rail service but the rural west would have a decent and integrated public transport system.
But of course it's all a long way from Cardiff and so it will never be considered.
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Ideally I'd love to see the Carmarthen to Aberystwyth line reopened - but there isn't the money for it yet.... The Cardiff to Ynys Mon air route was there because business wanted it - ideally business should have paid for it, but if we want proper communication links then we are going to have to pay out of the public purse for them. What's the alternative? All bus and train fairs to be full cost and all roads toll roads? No we need a sensible discussion on funding priorities for transport. North South links are dreadful - East West not so bad. True there are problems around Newport, though much of that would be local commuter traffic. Now if that could be moved onto public transport that would relieve the pressure there. South East Wales is ripe for light rail and electrification and an expansion of the lines. Do that and you will not need a relief road and go some way to meeting our carbon reduction targets. Of course its just that sort of investment that will not happen because of the economic straits that we are now in.
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7. Noah_sembly
He he, fair play to you.
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As Ieuanair sinks slowly behind the sun. Just to show there are no hard feelings, here's a little something that might cheer little Ieuan up on what must have been a really bad day.
With Cardiff 'lad' Andy in red, and Nathan East in blue, with some other fella (!!!) in the middle...this is specially for Ieuan Wyn-Jones.
"Birds fly over the rainbow,why then oh why can't I"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V2yTD1FV4Y
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Listened to the Radio Wales phone-in with Jason Mohamed & people were saying the plane was usually full & it was difficult to get seats.
Used not only by politicians but also business people & for leisure. Seems as if the experiment worked - what's the problem?
Subsidised travel isn't new. I live in the lower valleys & see plenty of subsidised empty buses around. At least 'IeuanAir' is used - keep it
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(Message 12) CA Jones.
For such a splendid example of promoting a lost cause. For believing what people say on Radio Wales phone-ins, and for continuing to dig a hole long after the shovel should have been discarded.
The prize for pointless perseverance goes to C.A. Jones.
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Unbelievable. We are governed by an assembly which, on one hand, stresses it's green credentials, yet on the other chooses to subsidise one of the most polluting means of transport with public funds. This money could be far better spent in other areas. Is is little wonder that the electorate are wholly disenfranchised with the politicians who purport to serve us?
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This comment has been referred for further consideration. Explain
Personally I think it's a great shame that Highland Airways have gone belly up and hope their spot will be taken up sooner rather than later.
From my experience the route was very popular (and no not only by politicains and civil servants) and the problems experienced by Highland airways are of a result of difficulties elswhere within their organisation. Shame they couldn't run the service on weekends as I'm conviced people would have taken advantage of it.
So now we go back to getting in a car/train for a 4/5 hour trip. Just out of interest can someone on here name another country that does not have its own internal domestic flights because I can't think of one?
Reading previous posts I get the feeling that people would like to see the £800,000 subsidy that was put aside for this air-link to improve North-South transport links. So to improve road links for example we would need to widen roads, provide ample overtaking lanes and build several by passes to avoid going through towns. I think this is a great idea but people need to appreciate that this would cost an incredible amount of money.
The Porthmadog By-Pass (which has been needed for years now) will cost around £50 million. And that's a by-pass for one town on the route. So when people argue that we should be allocating £800,000 towards improving our road infrastructure between North and South let's get some perspective. When it comes to transport - that budget of £800,000 wouldn't even touch the sides. It may cover the cost of re-painting a small part of the route but will not make a significant difference!
So will the people on this discussion board that are opposed to the air-link because of its cost to the public purse welcome alternative North-South transport links being improved at a far greater cost?
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Re: 13
People on the Radio Wales phone-in were named & not hiding behind a pseudonym, unlike you Noah.
Of course I'd listen to what they said as opposed to your usual Assemblyphobic "interpretations" which you shovel up in spades.
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Re 16
No they wouldn't - too much like 'nation building', I would imagine!!
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Don't even think about re-opening long dead rail links - they consisted of miles and miles of slow single line, punctuated with passing loops. The average speed won't be much above a snail (look at the current Cambrian Coast line) and although pretty won't get you anywhere in a hurry ....
Firstly get the bit of single line between Chester and Wrexham redoubled urgently, then upgrade the Marches line (as well as the Chester-Shrewsbury bit esp the long single block by Gobowen to Shrewsbury) to run faster trains.
Problem is that large chunks of that run in England so no-one will pay for it, even though it is Wales that will benefit most.
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Have you heard the whisper about the helicopter?
Some influencial folk at the Assembly intend to have one above you soon.
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Gerald the Welshman "Giraldus Cambrensis" concluded 7 or 8 centuries ago that the only sensible access into and out of Wales were East to West ... and ... West to East.
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Re:21
Oh well that's settled then if Gerald has already looked into the issue...
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Message 22 (Jiffy)
Humour not one of your strong points is it Jiffy.
Your wit and repartee really does passeth all understanding.
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Westminster politicians seem to be targeting north south high speed rail to get people away from using domestic air travel so it seems a little retrograde for Wales to be planing internal air flights. One contributor here said that the service was mainly set up to cater for business needs, i find this hard to believe when all traditional trade and business links are and always have been east west, unless the business is, with or involves the Assembly Government. In rejecting any attempt to resurrect Air Ieuan i would like to question the need for a public subsidy that promotes air fares at half the price of the rail fare or was that level of support needed to attract enough passengers to make the service appear popular
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A little irony i have just learned that our illustrious deputy first minister will not be in Cardiff on Monday not because his airline is not flying but apparently he is in Bangor to open a cycleway that is the last section of an Assembly sponsred sustainable transport route. Perhaps someone should ask him if this is to be his preferred route in future
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geoff drake #24
"retrograde for Wales"
There is no excuse for subsiding a less than green mode of travel. If the route was viable someone such as Ryanair would take it on. But it is not. So why does the Assembly have provide a subsidised air service for business people? The reality is that the airlink isn't for business people. If they need to go north/south then like every business person before them, if the journey was commercially viable, they go either along the A470 or go by train. To make an excuse to justify the £800,000 subsidy that North Wales feels isolated from the South is politico-speak.
The fact is that the flight reduces the travel time for people at the Assembly. There is no other possible explanation.
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Interesting, people lambaste the Welsh Government for lack of business support, but when support for business, in the form of a North/South air route is put in place people attack it. Exactly what do people want. Dammed if you do Dammed if you don't. If we want the greenest transport then we ban cars and all go by push bike.
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Jiffy wrote
So now we go back to getting in a car/train for a 4/5 hour trip. Just out of interest can someone on here name another country that does not have its own internal domestic flights because I can't think of one?
Northern Ireland?
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Re:24
It's a shame the proposed high speed rail link will not come closer to Wales than the Midlands.
Re:23
So not only are you all knowing on what's best for Wales but you're also a bit of an expert of humour. Quite a combination - you're wasted on this discussion board. 3 words Noah bach: Pot, Kettle, Black.
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no-spin #28
"Northern Ireland" Thank you for that. Argument sunk.
Subsiding an airlink north/south is not about having an internal airlink, nor is it about helping business. Lord Dafdydd Ellis Thomas explained last Wednesday at the Millennium Centre in has lubricious defence of the airlink was that he could get home by 8 o’clock in the evening and do some work, whereas he’d wouldn’t if he went by car. For LDET read also IWJ. The question to be asked: is these men’s time that valuable to spend £800,000 on subsidising them getting home early?
Subsiding business people is unnecessary. A return journey Llangefni to Cardiff is 400 miles, using a 2 litre engine car at £1.20 a litre the fuel cost is £73. An overnight stay including breakfast at a ‘reasonably' priced hotel £65. Cost of travel £138. The allocation of an extra half day travelling time (say) £76. Cost to company £214. Add to this the convenience benefit of flying instead of driving say £50 and the value of a return flight ticket is £264. A return flight ticket of £199 is a bargain. This is how I used to decide whether to fly or drive or take a train. And so do all businesses. Of course I would have liked to have had subsidised flight tickets but if there was a commercial necessity and there was money to be made out of the journey, I’d have spent the £200.
So why is the taxpayer providing a subsidy to fly?
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I'd like to see an aircraft service in Wales, but I cannot for the life of me see it as a benefit for most of us . In days of plenty, fine, but the priority must be to improve road and rail links at the moment. I think it unlikely that (The Lord) Dafydd Ellis Thomas has driven anywhere of late.
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It has always been patently obvious that this ill-fated 'airline' twixt Cardiff and Gawd knows where, is just one more example of Plaidy/Llafur "Wales building".
Along with the hideous (and still financially struggling) Millennium centre.....the pathetic 'worldwide Welsh embassies' (which incidently do nothing for Wales, yet cost a bloody fortune to maintain).....and sadly, the Millennium Stadium which is still short of money. This useless coalition of Plaido/Llafur political opportunists have but one ambition...and that is complete independence for Wales.
The arrogant Plaidy/Llafur crachach believe that a "nation" must have it's own language...it's own airline...and of course it's own collection of 'impressive' buildings....oh yes, I forgot the frighteningly expensive collection of "Welsh embassies" (no don't laugh) scattered all over the world. All this and never mind the NHS, more (proper) police officers, and more (proper) jobs for the vast numbers of unemployed in Wales.
Little wonder then that the voters of Wales can't wait for the chance to show the assembly just what they think of them. The mobbing of blogs and forums...and indeed the letter pages of the Welsh press, by assembly activists cannot save this assembly. Nor incidently can daft telephone polls commissioned and paid for by the assembly with our money.
Vote Plaid Cymru...we really do know how to waste public money !
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Give me some proof that Labour figures want independence for Wales, name one. And proof to back it up.
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Lyn David Thomas #33
Your question has nothing to do with the lead balloon airlink, but as you ask:
Rhodri Morgan comment on the referendum "it's about autonomy'.
Carwyn Jones comment "more power for the assembly" and his ludricous remark 'our fledging democracy'.
It's independence by another name.
Whatever name, what they don't want is to be answerable to the democratic institution that 60% of the electorate vote for as against the 40% for those in the building on the shore of the black lagoon.
And to show they are important they need an internal airlink...and you may soon discover...a helicopter.
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32. At 11:43am on 27 Mar 2010, Noah_sembly
Noah correct me if I am wrong, but weren't all the things you mention brought in to being under the previous Labour Government at the Welsh Assembly.
Also, isn't the Police Service the responsibility of the Westminster Government.
By all means blame Plaid Cymru for what they may be responsible for.
But please, how can you blame them for what they are not responsible for or bringing into being.
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re:30
So if you're opposed to the airlink do you support the enormous investment that it will take to improve links between North-South + East - West? Or do you think the status quo of taking a 4/5 hour drive to reach North Wales or the 2 hour train ride is takes from Carmarthen - Cardiff as acceptable?
When people complain that not enough 'proper' jobs are being created they fail to see or choose to ignore the obvious link between investment in infrastructure and jobs.
I can understand the argument against the airlink. Personally I think it's a good thing but I can see why people wouldn't support it. But what I can't support is the current status quo of travelling within Wales. It's crazy that you can travel from Paris to Marseilles in a little over 3 hours by train but it'll take you 2 hours (+ usually one change) to travel by train from Cardiff to Carmarthen!?
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As Len Gibbs has put Lyn David in his place, I shall answer your rather sad little queries.
Regarding the Welsh Police service....
QUOTE FROM ASSEMBLY WEBSITE
"Provisional Police settlement 2008- 09
The provisional settlement for Welsh Police Authorities for 2008-09 and proposed allocations for 2009-10 and 2010-11 was published on 6 December.
The Assembly Budget published on 14 November indicated that the revenue support provided by the Welsh Assembly Government for police authorities would be £158 million in 2008-09 rising to £167 million in 2010-2011."
Which would suggest that the Welsh assembly does have SOMETHING to do with the running/finances of our police.
Now, your point about Labour being responsible for some of the disasters I pointed out. I care not one jot which bunch of Del-Boy chancers is running the assembly. Unlike you who worships Plaid Cymru, I am apolitical, I don't think much of any of the parties....A situation incidentally that more and more folk share.The fact remains that this appalling assembly WAS responsible for the inception of the disasters I mentioned.
The clue is in the pseudonym, NOAH SEMBLY....gerrit! Whilst I favour no particular political party, I am firmly against any opportunist politicians who play on jingoistic nationalism,(or indeed national socialism) racial background, skin colour, or language.The fact that a "Welsh assembly" cannot exist without at least some of those nasty little "quirks" existing, is slowly dawning on the non-Welsh speaking, non independence seeking Welsh public
I believe that Plaid Cymru, having achieved little success at the ballot-box, have taken advantage of Labour's ineptitude in the assembly and for purely political reasons have used the hapless Rhodri Morgan in order to force their twisted nationalist/independence plans onto an easy going, apathetic, non-Welsh speaking Welsh public.
One thing that must happen is that one party, be they Labour/Tory or even Lib Dem should run a Welsh assembly. There is no place whatsoever for sharing a bed with Plaid Cymru at any level of government.
If a Welsh assembly cannot operate without the assistence of Plaid, then the assembly should be subjected to a third and final referendum on it's existence.
I have no doubt that the Welsh public would vote to get rid of this devolution experiment, which has failed dismally in every nationalistic stunt it has pulled.
Before ending this post (which is invariably going to be called a rant by the usual suspects) a word on flights out of Cardiff Rhoose(!)airport.
For twenty years or more. My wife and I, and our children, took dozens of flights from Cardiff to (mainly)Heathrow on KLM Cityhoppers, which were small, mainly Fokker, 20 seaters. These flights were free!!!! no subsidies provided by idiotic assemblies from public taxes. These were flights to the major airports where we flew on to the USA and Far Eastern destinations.
How ironical then that I find Plaid/Llafur politicos spending millions of pounds on subsidizing almost empty, unprofitable,flights from Cardiff to.....ANGLESEY !!!!!
This Welsh assembly has well and truly gone crazy. They must have known damn well that the vast majority of us Welsh did not agree with Ieuan Wyn-Jones's very own little dream. But did that set the alarm bells ringing, did it make them think twice before doling out the subsidies.....DID IT HELL !!!!!!
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So you are saying that Rhodri Morgan and Carwyn Jones want Wales to be an independent state and you are saying that by voting yes people are voting for independence in the forthcoming referenda, sorry but Len you have just lost the plot. No proof I see offered either.
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The flights are reported to be full and seats difficult to get, so I think Noah is wrong yet again.
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Noah
Phew!
That is some .... no I won't say it.
I am begining to be a bit suspicious here, no body gets that angry writing something, because it is not a spur of the moment thing for which such anger is normaly expressed.
Are you realy what you make yourself out to be
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39. At 5:46pm on 27 Mar 2010, Lyn David Thomas wrote:
The flights are reported to be full and seats difficult to get, so I think Noah is wrong yet again.
Is that really the best you can do our Lyn?
"THE FLIGHTS ARE REPORTED TO BE FULL" surely you know by now that us realists on here will take that to mean "THE FLIGHTS ARE RUNNING EMPTY BUT WE MUST "REPORT" THEY ARE FULL, IN ORDER TO PROTECT THE CRUMBLING IMAGE OF IEUAN WYN-JONES....Who may or not still be "deputy 1st. minister" for very much longer.
It would be the easiest thing in the world for us to be given the exact numbers on every flight since the unfortunate experiment began. SO WHERE ARE THE ACTUAL FIGURES both of bums on seats and revenue taken? After all, the firms gone bust, so no 'commercial secrets' are relevant.
"SO I THINK NOAH IS WRONG AGAIN"...I think it best to let the readers form their own opinions on that, don't you Lyn?
After all, its not as though you are entirely impartial on this subject, is it Lyn?
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Re 37
Noa bach,
The man who has told us not to take anything he has to say seriously certainly IS ranting these days! Have you been misleading us?
You are wrong about the flights however, they have been popular and successful. The company went bust because of its business problems in Scotland, it had nothing to do with this route. But why let a few facts get in the way of a good old bigoted rant, eh?
Oh, and perhaps you could help a simple Welsh speaker like me - as you say from 'gawd knows where'? Can you have a quick look at your old grammar notes from school (English medium, I assume) and sort out your 'its' from your 'it's'? You see, I might understand you a bit better then!
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http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2010/03/22/conservative-quotes-from-the-labour-dossier-91466-26081453/
Rest assured Noah you're not on your own, Monmouthshire and Newport Conservatives are like the MPs in wanting that horrendous encourager of sectarianism gone!!
The Conservative and Unionist party are leaving Welsh devolution down to its Welsh voters, if they like UKIP want it gone? Remember, the Conservatives were vehemently opposed to this devolution nonsense with its hidden dangers to a once very successful unified state.
Before anyone starts on about Wales being done down by a British Raj, before devolution there were regions of Britain with a lower GDP than West Wales and the Valleys. Whilst east Wales was doing better than most regions.
The ONLY reason we've got devolution is because an assumed Welsh speaking elite got themselves into so many positions of power. Very clever Llafur, only watch out for an English speaking Nemesis.
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Lyn David Thomas #38
Rhodri and Lord DET go at lengths to mention the position of Wales within the UK. So do most of the unionist on this blog. The difference is we respect and value the position and authority of our MPs and believe they should have precedence over the would be statesmen beside the black lagoon. The AMs want to be free of the interference of the MPs who have the greater public support. The degree the AMs would go to be free of Westminster is different for each but “autonomy” is “autonomy” from…and that smells more or independence than union. Lining up with a party that is a self-declared independence party can only make us suspicious.
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FoDafydd #42
"they have been popular and successful"
An insider who knows emailed me a few minutes ago...
"We need to be aware that it is generally public sector workers and politicians that use the service. Public sector subsidising the public sector. Hardly a recipe for good use of public funds."
That's as near official as we will get it.
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#44 Len Gibbs wrote:
'Lining up with a party that is a self-declared independence party can only make us suspicious.'
Wouldn't surprise me if you voted UKIP, Len, or nearly UKIP, which is Tory. Which makes one suspicious.
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Bryn_Teilo #46
Read my bio on Waleshome.org...I'm centre and of no political persuasion. I have voted for a wide range of candidates based on the issues and the election. If it came to either independence or union and the only choice I had was Plaid or UKIP I'd vote Ukip because I want to maintain the Union. That doesn't make me Tory but they also want to keep the Union. The LibDem clearly want a Parliment for Wales. Labor leaders refer to 'autonomy'. On this issue I know where I'd put my X.
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Re 45
"An insider who knows emailed me" eh, Len?! Such contacts! It must be quite something being so close to the Welsh establishment - lucky you!!
Try the other one.
It's about as convincing as: "I'm centre and of no political persuasion"!!!
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The Druid has summed up the "well to the left" malaise found in Welsh and current British politics, a refusal to acknowledge that good housekeeping should be the priority of politics.
The spend spend spent co-conspirators might like to ask the elderly of Anglesey, whether they would prefer the subsidy of an air-link (for politicians and others more agile flyers) or home help ...
... can we safely predict a preference for "home help", no doubt the same elderly citizens would also prefer our politicos to exercise a decade of good book keeping, in the pensioner spirit.
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#49 Stonemason wrote:
'..good housekeeping should be the priority of politics'
Have a word with Norman Lamont, the former Tory Chancellor (subsequently kicked upstairs to the unelected upper chamber for his services to the economy) about the ERM and raising interest rates to 15% in just one day.
They're all the same at the House of Horrors on the banks of the Thames.
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BT, are you suggesting ...
... good housekeeping should not be the priority of politics
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#51
Simply pointing out the sad fact of history, that 'good housekeeping' isn't associated with Westminster, Whitehall, Labour or the Tories.
The Druid has his finger on the pulse. Cameron and Osborne could well have their hands in our wallets - the pounds in them have already been devalued because of gross financial and economic mismanagement.
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FoDafydd #48
“the Welsh establishment”
Is not as united as it may publicly appear. And people have their own agenda. It can be very convenient to ‘slip’ information to a group who will release it. This happens regularly. Something else that was ‘slipped’ to me this week I have used in one of my earlier postings on this thread without making reference to an external source. And another…a helicopter. Now why would someone let this ‘slip’? Perhaps to make people aware that a personal chariot may become available for certain ‘important’ people to flit around Wales instead of using the time consuming roads.
How about this… “The question posed at the 1997 referendum for the National Assembly would have been unlawful if asked today…” Glyn Mathias former Electoral Commissioner for Wales.
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39. At 5:46pm on 27 Mar 2010, Lyn David Thomas wrote:
The flights are reported to be full and seats difficult to get,
I hope everyone notes the use of the words "are reported to be" this being a well known ploy of assembly scribes when they wish to deceive.
As I asked before, why not show us (the public and benefactors of Ieuanair) all the relevant figures...along with proof that they are not made up! Yes, it has come to that. I do not take any statistics/information etc., put out by this assembly, without rock solid proof of its authenticity, which invariably is unavailable.
As for Len's quote about the validity (whoops! I nearly said fairness)of the the 1997 devolution referendum. Glyn Mathias's point stands.
However, there is another point which has been overlooked.... Ask anyone who knows about market/opinion research, and they will tell you that having a "YES I agree with the question/statement" answer first, before the "NO I disagree with the question/statement" always produces an increased vote for the "Yes I agree" side. It's something to do with the voter having an inbuilt 'wish to please' coupled with 'a dislike of offending'...Before you assembly lackies start, I suggest you look up references to the above.
When you consider that all devolution referenda (and assembly telephone polls) have been set up to provide the "Yes to devolution" question first, you begin to see just how devious the whole thing has become.
This being particularly relevant when in the last 1997 devolution referendum, it needed only less than 3,500 yes voters, in the whole of Wales, to have been influenced by the "YES first" vote, and this appallingly wasteful,self-seeking assembly would never have come into existence.
Never mind. There are now enough of us who have seen through their tricks, to insist that the next referendum will be altogether fairer. Which will mean that the mass of the people of Wales will no longer be tricked.
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42. At 7:05pm on 27 Mar 2010, FoDafydd wrote:
Re 37
Noa bach,
Oh, and perhaps you could help a simple Welsh speaker like me - as you say from 'gawd knows where'? Can you have a quick look at your old grammar notes from school (English medium, I assume) and sort out your 'its' from your 'it's'? You see, I might understand you a bit better then!
FoDafydd.
I apologise for my sloppy use of its (and it's). But having said that, I have been around forums and blogs long enough to be wary of ever pointing out grammar/spelling errors to other posters.
As our previous 'gems' are retained for all to see, someone who has somewhat harshly had his/her error corrected on here is likely to immediately go hunting for errors made by the 'pointer out' of his mistake.
There then follows an embarrassing list of every little grammatical error made, going back well into the days when the 'pointer out' was called (for example) FiDaffyd, as opposed to FoDaffyd !
However, thanks for pointing out my errors. Though I hardly think they contribute greatly to your understanding my rants. Which in any case, as you so frequently point out, I do not mean to be taken too seriously, anyway.
I notice that I am not alone in the great 'its'....'it's' mystery, so have included the following.....
http://www.future-perfect.co.uk/grammartips/grammar-tip-its.asp
Though what the hell all this has to do with bloody aeroplanes flying from Cardiff to Anglesey and back, Gawd only knows.(wink)
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Len - you are not being straight with us, you say that autonomy = independence. Well in that case the Federal Republic of Germany is a figment of our imagination, Sardinia is a free and sovereign state and Alaska is an independent republic. How can we hope for a decent debate if you debase terms in this manner? True Wales has shown to be consistently peddling lies (stock markets, honours systems, Labour Nationalists wanting independence) so I suppose we should not be surprised.
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Lyn David Thomas #56
“autonomy = independence”
The infamous phrase, devolution is a process and a step to independence is to be understood as in the autonomous region of Catalonia. Last autumn there was an ‘unofficial’ referendum in Catalonia for independence which a Plaid MEP attended as an ‘observer’. I have asked who paid the expenses for the trip? I’m awaiting an answer!
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A BA pilot once told me that if 8 seats on a plane this size are full, it is making money. This is why they used Jetstreams to trial services in key areas. There is no reason if these planes were full why the route shouldn't be lucrative.
However, the shortness of the trip is such that, once again, a north south air link has proved unsustainable. Enough now. Let's spend the money on a couple of 185 rail units which, with high acceleration, would reduce the north south rail times without rail upgrades needed. They are currently used on the Trans Pennine services and two could be easily added to the fleet.
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Plaid supporters on here frequently announce that they do not seek any form of independence for Wales, and that a 'stronger' form of devolution is their aim.
Poppycock!
Plaido leaders have for years now been surreptitiously dropping fatter and fatter hints as to their idea of a perfect Wales. It just goes to show the sheer hypocrisy of a political party who have chosen to hide their real target which is independence. I think it is now out in the open that Plaid see devolution as merely a steppingstone to an independent Wales.
Even Plaid's "great white hope" Adam Price, presently being educated in what can only be described as a rather strange U.S. college, has let the cat out of the bag.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/wales_politics/7932649.stm
I, and I hope many others will do our best to make Plaid's plans for a completely independent Wales more widely known to the Welsh electorate.
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Well bob, you should tell us more, don't hide your light under a bushel, I have never heard of a 185 rail unit. If it gives taxpayers value for money and the public in North Wales good access to the South the majority would be right behind it.
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#59
As far as I'm aware Plaid makes no secret of wanting an independent Wales. This is a quote from their 'Policies' page:
'Many nations, smaller than Wales, are already independent members of the international community. We want equality for Wales.'
It can't be put more clearly than that.
I'm not speaking for Plaid, but everyone knows where I stand... I favour an independent Republic of Wales, with its own elected head of state - not quite Plaid's policy, as I understand it.
Dr Hywel Francis' interview on the Politics Show today was quite informative, and his committee's findings on Whitehall's ignorance and/or disinterest in Welsh devolution. For me, that puts it in a nutshell - Wales has no future in a system which largely disregards it.
Dr Francis' comment to the effect that the setting up of the Assembly was the biggest step since 1536 wasn't saying much - Wales has been governed directly from London for the entire period. He did say that it was a kind of proto-'federalism'. I'd describe Labour's devolution settlement an insult to the people of Wales - it isn't federalism in any way shape or form. There isn't a country in the world that has such a pathetically weak devolved institution.
Helen Mary Jones came over well, all to her credit. Imo, she'd make a far better leader than the current incumbent.
Not one of the London parties in the final analysis gives a fig for Wales - all they care about is getting power.
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Bryn_Teilo #61
“no secret of wanting an independent Wales”
That’s an admission and a welcome one. We know where we are. It’s why so many Wales loving people are so deeply concerned about being plunged into further economic decline through yet another step to independence. As you watched the Politics show you would have heard Cameron referring to Ireland as the most indebted country in the EC. Do you want this type of ‘equality for Wales’?
“all they care about is getting power” is not confined to those at London. Air links and helicopters are toys for boys who want to be big.
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Oh for goodness sake stop your childish whinging Bryn_Teilo !
It's painfully obvious to all who read your anti English/British/UK tirades that you are a blinkered Welsh 'Independalista'. All you ever do is look for ways to make out that Wales is hard done by...heavy duty whinging is your forte.
Wales has more 'government than England' take a look....
QUOTE.
Population of Wales .............
3,000,000.........................number of MPs.40
Population of England .........51,000,000.........................number of MPs,529
Wales has 1 MP for every 75,000 of population
England has 1 MP for every 96,408 of population.
Giving Wales the same MP/population ratio as England........(divide 3,000,000 by 96,408) we arrive at 31.1 MPs.
This means that Wales has 9 more MPs than its population warrants.
Of course we then have to include the 60 assembly sheep, which England (lucky for them) does not have.
Get real Bryn. Wales is a poor little devolved region relying on England to keep us going. Our only 'growth' industry is assembly and local government back-office clerical staff. We really are a 'dab-hand' with the begging bowl, and would be exactly the same if we were independent. The only difference being we'd be shaking our bowl at the EU instead of England.
For Gawd's sake stop trying to blame anyone else for our lowly position. Though everyone knows blaming England for everything is a vital part of the 'divide and rule' policy of Plaid and the separatists.
Grow up and moaning !
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Yes Noah, that's boastful Adam Price in Mystic Meg mode, confidently forecasting that our young folk are gagging for independence. Tell my son and daughter that....I dunno?
Plaidi types are ever the optimists, Adam was doing his bragging back in March 2009. A time when these Plaidi types were eagerly forecasting not only becoming the biggest party in the European elections, but also winning two of the four seats...ha ha.
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Noah, as you know I've highlighted for a long time the undeniable fact that Plaid Cymru is a single issue party, and that single issue is to separate the link with England. For doing so, I too have been attacked for the occasional grammatical mistake by some of the nationalists on this blog and have responded with a heavy dose of vitriol which usually does not get past the censure.
I just wish that like you I could address their spurious arguments with the eloquence and moderation you display in your posts.
Nationalists would have the world believe they are the only ones that can write cogently on any subject in the beautiful language of English, the natural language of the majority in Wales. I feel sure that the nationalists/ separatists on this blog won't be happy until Wales is hermetically sealed off from mother England.
And if that fateful day were ever to arrive they wouldn't give a fig for the worries of the majority when Wales looses the sustaining and very generous allowance from the Barnett Formula.
It seems their hatred of England is such that they believe they will be able to reconnect their economic feeding tube to a new supply in Brussels, just like that. It just beggars belief. As Voltaire never said, if they and their rabid nonsense didn't exist, a writeer of note would have to invent them.
The great flaw in their nationalistic scheming is that I don't think, in the near or distant future, the German or the French governments would agree, taking into consideration the financial chaos in Greece, Spain, Portugal and Ireland, to the inclusion of another basket case in the Union.
So keep thumping the nats Noah, their days are hopefully numbered. Nemesis is fast approaching and his name is Dave.
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Just dipped in to see how the discussion on the airlink is going and would you believe it the debate has once again been taken over by the likely lads/prophets of doom to spout their predictable venom.
No matter what the subject you can't but fail to get into a rage about Plaid or Labour, the Assembly, Cardiff Bay, BBC Wales, the Welsh language or Devolution. In short anything that may be done differently to England.
You must tire yourselves out with all this hostility.
Maybe you should channel this aggression into the billions of your hard earned money that's being wasted on a totally out of date trident, useless ID card card system, a Barnett formula that short changes Wales to the tune of £300M a year, illegal wars etc.
But then again I will not be holding my breath. Much easier to stick to the usual tune eh..?
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Again Len who are the Labour people who want independence for Wales. Voting yes will not give us independence - tell me is The Saar independent? Or Florida? Or British Columbia? Or Sicily? They all have far greater autonomy than is proposed for Wales. So where is your argument that voting yes is a vote for independence?
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Yer right jiffy, I for one cannot wait to hurl abuse at Plaid Llafur Cymru. I hate the fact that Rhodri and his proper Welsh Labour boyos, always clamours for the vote of the English speaking working classes!!
Jiffy, I think there's a lot of fear flying around the Plaid/Llafur made in heaven coalition ( as said by Rhodri)
It appears that English folk, and English folk from once English Monmouthshire, combined with other English speaking British folk are sick to death of the language bully boys of extremely-Welsh Labour.
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Re 62
Len,
"As you watched the Politics show you would have heard Cameron referring to Ireland as the most indebted country in the EC. Do you want this type of ‘equality for Wales’?"
So, you would like to reclaim the Irish for the UK then? For their own good, no doubt. Perhaps you'd like them to stop being a nation so that can happen? Just as you'd like us not to be a nation either.
And, Noa, the man who doesn't want us to take anything he says seriously, has joined the ranks of those who, for whatever reason, believe that Plaid doesn't want to admit to having a long term goal of independence for Wales!!!
And, I'll say it again, because some people clearly just cannot understand: the north-south air route was popular and successful, the Scottish company folded because of financial problems in their Scottish operations. But, I know, why allow these facts to get in the way of a proper bigoted rant?
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#63 wrote:
'Wales is a poor little devolved region relying on England to keep us going.'
Yes, aren't we really pathetic!
Its taken centuries of propaganda and gullibility to produce people with your mindset.
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And just how do YOU know that the ridiculously subsidised Ieuanair route was so popular and successful?
FoDafydd, if maybe you could manage to drag yourself away from correcting folk who use "it's" instead of "its", and actually read what others write on here....
QUOTE.
...54. At 12:28pm on 28 Mar 2010, Noah_sembly wrote:
39. At 5:46pm on 27 Mar 2010, Lyn David Thomas wrote:
"The flights are reported to be full and seats difficult to get"
I hope everyone notes the use of the words "are reported to be" this being a well known ploy of assembly scribes when they wish to deceive.
As I asked before, why not show us (the public and benefactors of Ieuanair) all the relevant figures...along with proof that they are not made up! Yes, it has come to that. I do not take any statistics/information etc., put out by this assembly seriously, without rock solid proof of its authenticity, which invariably is unavailable.
END QUOTE
In other words FoDafydd, until you provide satisfactory proof of all this 'success' please don't expect any other than the slow-witted and easily confused to believe a damn word of it.
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Lyn David Thomas #67
“voting yes is a vote for independence”
You know when a virus is dangerous you keep it out of harm’s way.
Plaid has a dangerous viral proposition for everyone’s wealth…Labour should have kept it out of harm’s way by not including it in the WAG.
Now Labour is muttering ‘autonomy’ and we know that the viral diseased they’ve got linked to is a step to independence.
The cry should be ‘Leper, leper, leper’.
It is not about voting for independence…it’s keeping the virus in a sterile environment.
FoDafydd #69
“reclaim the Irish”
No. They wanted out. They got out and they stay out because we can’t afford them in. They boasted that by being out of the UK they would be better off, they were for a while and boasted about that. Now they are the poorest in Europe. It is not something that I want to happen to Wales in making the same mistake that Ireland did of thinking out of the UK is economically better.
Bryn_Teilo #70
“relying on England”
Let’s be blunt about it. We are reliant on England. £9.1 billion every year and still trying to beg another £300 million. We’d be in the same poverty of Ireland if it wasn’t for our generous friends across the border.
Noah_sembly #71
"are reported to be"…
…occupied by Assembly members and black lagoon lackeys.
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Thank you Noah/Len/Jack for putting the position of the vast majority enf english only speaking welshpeople with regard to Plaid Cymru and its long term aim to create a seperate "Bantustan" in this west part of UK. I come from a solid and decent working class family in an area of total english speaking and loyalty to the concept of the UK,through wars/depressions and also the very good times,and in particular freedom of political choice. The 1997 decision was taken by a very,very small majority and was "swung" by our friends in west wales who thought there was even more public money coming their way,and "welshification" would great benefit them because they,through accident of birth could speak the language. Since 1999 and inception of this "monster" down Bay,we have seen growth of public expenditure at unprecedented levels and no absolute increase in welsh productivity at public sector level,and with the real "cuts" coming because of over supply of money by GB the level of services is going to plummet from not very good position. The idea that this bunch need more "powers",when they cant really organize anything makor is a joke,particularly in the economic climate. Other than shoving the welsh language further and further into areas where it aint wanted or needed there is no major policy initiative,i.e. reorganize health service to take account of current needs,rather than voters wishes on hospital closures/brain surgery etc,and reduction of La's to "strategic" size,with reducing services to local bodies with accountable individuals for performance etc. The "legacy" of King Rhodri could be the ultimate removal of wales from Uk,by inclusion by the "splitters" in Government,and their respectability therein. The new "Prince" looks like a carbon copy of his mentor who wishes to dilute links with our great neighbour next door. Lets face it we are a "backwater" and the whole public structure of wales should be split,with north west wales coming under Mersyside for sounder economic reasons,and we would'nt need to subside a small airline for small people flying down from an obscure little island to Caerdydd. Come on UKIP!!!
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Re:73
Why hold back - if you're going to go for it do it properly? Let's get Cardiff + Newport under the public structure of Bristol and then Mid Wales can become a suburb of Greater Birmingham.
That would more or less leave West Wales but we all live in mud huts and have only just learnt how to read so you can leave us wither away...Actually just scrap Wales off the map. It'll make life easier.
You could avoid that horrible situation of having to hear Welsh being spoken in Wales (or as you put it shoving Welsh into areas where it aint weanted or needed)by simply banning it outright. Problem solved.
Then there's that thorny issue of democracy. Problem with democracy is that you don't always get what you want (i.e '97 referendum. Yes it was a small turnout but those that bothered to turn out voted in favour of devolution. Fact.) So to avoid this happening again we should probably ban democracy as well.
Just out of interest what did your fellow prohets of doom complain about before devolution? Or was life simply rosy back then?
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Re 71
Noa bach,
For someone who's told us so many times that you don't really care and that we shouldn't take anything said on here seriously, you do seem to have your knickers rather in a twist this morning! Perhaps you really were misleading us!!
Re 72
Len,
There have been many insulting and arrogant remarks posted on this site by Brit nats over the years, but I think your claim that the Irish nation made a mistake in wishing to be independent takes the colonialist biscuit. Who gives you the right to tell the Irish what they should think, believe and wish for. I'm really not sure how it's possible to debate with people who hold such extreme views.
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The problem with nationalists is that democracy means exactly what they they say it means. In 1979 the people of Wales voted massively against devolution and that was on a 58% turnout.
In the 1997 referendum a fundamental change to a constitution was pushed through on a miniscule "winning margin" on a turnout of fractionally over 50%. That's not what I would call a democratic political process. But there again I don't accept an Humpty Dumpty view of language usage.
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re 74. Thank you and you are "spot on" with your analysis. I like most people I know am a "pragmatist" and wish to see the best value for my taxation,and not the "glorification" of wales as cultural entity.The sheer geography/distances between small cities/cultural attitudes,and taken together with very poor economic performance,(relying on others for our basic services) means surely that the best useage be made of the limited funds available for public provision of services. In a "democracy" it is up to people to decide their political/economic structures,however the implications of deciding for a "cultural" model,rather than strictly "economic" one will produce less than could be proved out of a given amount of money. This is in issue that will not go away as long as local politicians and increasingly the less than object BBC CYMRU persist with the idea that wales can be economically governed as an "isolated" unit with clear red water between us and our near neighbours "over the border",so beloved by BBC CYMRU.If you look at the provision of services by TESCO (a supremely succesfull private company) to their stores in wales it is by way of two distribution centres. One is in Chepstow and the other in Cheshire and that helps to reduce costs to customers and the same principles should apply in public sector provision of goods and services. Who is talking about "banning" welsh as its up to people what they speak/watch on TV,however if you speak to the average english only speaker they've had a "bellyfull" of welsh signs and proliferation of welsh where it aint needed or wanted. Let the welsh speakers pay for S4C by direct subscription and we'd see how much the welsh love the language when they have to pay for it!!
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Re:77 "I ... wish to see the best value for my taxation."
That's a fair comment but let's think about that statement for a minute.
You're getting yourself in a tizz here about tax-payers money that's being allocated to what you call the 'glorification' of Wales and you use the Welsh language as an example.
Yes - to you and me - the budget allocated to S4C is a lot of money but when you consider the overall pot that it comes out of it's miniscule.
And yes people will come back with the line that that figure will pay for x number of additional nurses or teachers. Again fair enough but if you use that argument you should also accept the argument that you can multiply the figure of additional nurses, teachers etc that will be created by god knows how many times when you consider the amount of tax payers money being spent on Trident, ID Cards. illegal wars etc.
But we don't seem to hear much - if any - of those concernes on this forum even though it's your money that going towards them. Why? Does it just not fit in to your train of thought?
"Let the welsh speakers pay for S4C by direct subscription and we'd see how much the welsh love the language when they have to pay for it!!"
So the argument here is because you don't watch S4C you don't want to pay for it. So to take this argument further it's highly unlikely that I will use the proposed high-speed rail link between London & the North so should this be paid by direct subsription as well?
I don't think there's a need for a Royal Family. So shall we get those that support them to pay by direct debit so that the tax-payers money that's currently being spent on them can go towards additional nurses etc?
Re: 75
"I'm really not sure how it's possible to debate with people who hold such extreme views"
Truth is Fo I don't think it's possible.
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FoDafydd ‘75
“any insulting and arrogant remarks”...takes the colonialist biscuit”
In all of my long life of endeavouring to win friends and influence people I have never had such fulsome praise. And I wasn’t even particularly trying. It’s up to the Irish what they do and it’s up to me to decided what I think of the action. I think that leaving the Empire and abandoning the Colonies was rather foolish of them. But having gone, they ain’t coming back. And we aren’t going to join them in the begging bowl queue.
(Hums “Rule Britannia, Britannia Rules the Waves” as he types.)
“how it's possible to debate with people who hold such extreme views?”
You’re right! Noah_sembly, Jack_Wilkinson, Stonemason and myself have been pondering that for somewhile!
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Jiffy #78
Very little being spent on Trident at present.
Proposals, in principle, to replace the Trident submarines which are due to be taken out of service in 2024, were passed by the House of Commons in 2007.
However, the US are extending the life of their Trident submarines to 30–40 years and MPs have been advised that the same could be done in the UK.
So current expenditure is relatively small, just initial studies - There is a lot of pressure for a decision, whatever the number of boats and which ever route is chosen - we are looking at 2015 budget for the big spend.
But while the yes or no debate about it is important, my concern is that the final decision is based on real National Security requirements.
ID cards I'm willing to bet that it has little support from those blogging here - from all sides.
Illegal Wars, probably given what we now know, Iraq was wrong, Blair should certainly be held to account for his part.
However Afghanistan is different, for our security we need to stabilise that country.
The Royals - they earn more for this country than we spend on them.
The Queen was funded by the Royal Estates, but those have been handed to the treasury, and the income still far outweighs the amount of the Civil List.
Think about the alternative - someone like Rhodri, Blair, or even Maggi, being elected as head of state, doesn't bear thinking about.
The Queen has served us well - a hereditary Head of State educated for the job will serve us better than any jumped up politician.
Your welcome to disagree - that's democracy.
As for S4C - how about funding it from advertising, given the potential market, companies will surely fall over themselves to buy space - bound to be a big revenue earner.
As for the Rail link - from what I've read so far about the 5 year transport plan, we'll all be OK.
Nothing to help Welsh Industry who are desperate for improvements in the transport infrastructure
But plenty of cycle tracks and walks to give us something to do when we are on the dole.
Our AM's and civil servants need not be disadvantaged - we can get a few helicopters, maybe more aircraft, with flexible routes for Ieuan Air, make it a sort of taxi service for the ruling elite.
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80. At 5:38pm on 29 Mar 2010, West-Wales wrote:
QUOTE
But plenty of cycle tracks and walks to give us something to do when we are on the dole.
Our AM's and civil servants need not be disadvantaged - we can get a few helicopters, maybe more aircraft, with flexible routes for Ieuan Air, make it a sort of taxi service for the ruling elite.
END QUOTE
Did anyone else see little Ieuan on TV this evening?
He arrogantly stated that much more money was to be spent on providing special cycle-ways on our roads, reducing the area available for cars and lorries even more.Plus, in a pathetic attempt at transport "social engineering", he will spend more money on little-used bus and train transport than on roads over the next five years at least.
In other words, we must use trains and buses while he cruises overhead in a jet (his fares and subsidies paid by us)
Maybe he and his cronies can provide us all with flags so while out on our bikes we can wave our appreciation to him, as he cruises overhead in his jet.While he waves deferentially, like some communist commissar, at the peasants on their £49.99p Argos bikes, peddling furiously to the Jobcentre.
Has Ieuan Wyn-Jones totally lost the plot? Is he aware of the anger and revulsion his continued insistence that "Jets must fly between Cardiff and Anglesey" (apparently whatever the cost) has produced.
Maybe he thinks his ongoing Ieuanair fiasco (and several other C***-ups)might be forgotten before any elections and referenda!
Fat chance Ieuan bach...Fat chance!
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That's the hilarious thing, whilst the con-trails of our little commissars Lear jet criss crosses the skys of Mother Cymru, he won't get the blame.
No, Plaid voters will be well pleased with commissar bach's show of strength, but we all know a rather cunning but hapless idiot with bad hair who will get the blame.
Can I make a forecast? I will anyway, I see Rhodri's Llafur facing annihilation in east Wales.
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I no longer live in Wales but:
#16 "So will the people on this discussion board that are opposed to the air-link because of its cost to the public purse welcome alternative North-South transport links being improved at a far greater cost?"
Yes I would have.
Looking at Wikipedia, the Jetstreams (I'm unsure which was used on this route) would either carry 19 or 29 people and according to the timetable offered just 2 flights each way, weekdays (bank holidays excluded) only. There is also the problem of getting to the airport at Valley.
I'd imagine the alternative links would be of far greater benefit to far greater proportion of the population.
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Keep IeuanAir, if only for the apocalyptic fits of self-righteous fury it causes Noah - so entertaining..
Anything that gives people from north Wales,including public servants, easier access to Cardiff & the Assembly to enable them to do their job of representing their constituents is to be welcome, especially at such an economic price.
The people so anti-IeaunAir air also anti-Assembly - what a coincidence :)
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Also it would seem anti cycle routes and anti spending money on buses and trains.... I get the feeling that if the Welsh Government said that fresh air was good for you they would claim it was a diabolic plot to make us all Welsh speaking and that actually fresh air was dangerous to the health....
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CA Jones - and the people who are pro-IeaunAir are also pro-Assembly.
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Messages 84 and 85 (CA Jones and Lyn David Thomas)
Excellent examples of Plaidian humour from both of you. I'm sure everyone on here was doubled up in fits of laughter (well, fits of something anyway)"Well worth a second look".
It appears your attendance at Plaid's Cymru X 'comic writing' classes may be paying dividends....
Why, within just an hour or so of your posts this morning I've already had calls and E-mails from Marcus Brigstocke...Rhod Gilbert... Sean Lock...and even Frankie Boyle, asking for details of these exciting new Welsh comedy writers.
Could this be the beginning of the new Galton & Simpson, Cook & Moore, Curtis & Elton, Fry & Laurie......
Hang on ! Just had a call from Barry (Barri) Cryer wanting to know if either of you two could see your way to giving him some lessons in comedy writing......JONES & THOMAS...You've arrived lads !!!!
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Our court jester at #84. displays the logic of Noddy where he writes ...
Anything that gives people from north Wales,including public servants, easier access to Cardiff & the Assembly to enable them to do their job of representing their constituents is to be welcome, especially at such an economic price.
... would he advocate a new air-service to Westminster to assist our real democracy; if our MPs can manage without a flying chariot our AMs should also.
Good news for Anglesey, the new nuclear station is confirmed.
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Re 87
You may need to go to a few classes yourself, Noa bach, judging from that effort!!
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89. At 11:53am on 30 Mar 2010, FoDafydd wrote:
Re 87
You may need to go to a few classes yourself, Noa bach, judging from that effort!!
You may well be right FoDai.
Maybe I should model myself more on Max Boyce.
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Re 88
Stonemason,
"Our court jester at #84. displays the logic of Noddy where he writes ..."
You're not too keen on personal insults then?!!
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Re: 87
Humour is such a personal thing, don't you think..
Re: 87
Our resident Colonel Blimp is apparently unaware of the excellent links between London & the rest of the Empire, I mean UK..
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I am guessing Mr. Jones that your last when referring to Colonel Blimp at #87, was in fact referring to #88, touché.
I am aware of the excellent links between all places in the United Kingdom, as are our politicians, though they would be Monarchs, wishing a grander means of travel set apart from the "great unwashed".
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Re: 93
'touché' for a typo, indeed..
'wishing a grander means of travel set apart from the "great unwashed".'
Come, come Blimp, IeaunAir is hardly Air Force One.
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... now stop right there, lets not give them any ideas ...
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Re: 95
Don't worry - they're doing ok as it is. Steady as she goes, independence next stop ;)
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