Victory!
So for whom, exactly, was the decision to impose a charge on plastic bags a victory?
A: The Environment Minister, Jane Davidson, leading the way for other Ministers to follow?
B: It wasn't an outright ban in the end, so a victory for plastic bag manufacturers?
C: A partial victory for those of you who took part in our "If I Ruled Wales" campaign back in 2007?
D: What about the environment? Fewer bags is good news and environmental causes who may benefit if big shops agree to direct the proceeds their way?
E: Not, says the British Retail Consorium, the Welsh consumer will be "clobbered" with new "taxes". You, of course, may disagree and be more than happy to pay the charge/already own a 'bag for life' and never leave it in the boot when you really need it.
None of the above, apparently. It's a victory for the Daily Mail, who have it on good authority that their very own 'Banish the Bag' campaign "inspired" the Welsh administration.
I'm Betsan Powys, BBC Wales' political editor. I'll be blogging the inside track on 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~02~RS~)
Comments
Sign in or register to comment.
Yes its a victory, a triumph of stupidity over common sense.
Answer E is correct a pathetic excuse to clobber the consumer with new taxes.
The damage has already been done!
We now have plastic bags with the words BIODEGRADABLE written on them that means they disintegrate in a short period of time
When Peter Mandelson is in the news over widening access to higher education the WAG in in the news over taxes on biodegradable plastic bags.
Somebody needs to get their priorities right
Complain about this comment
I saw this elsewhere ..... at "Skomer Vole"
Nonsense verse by our politicians, not content with wishing to order our lives, our very own Lords and Ladies of misrule at the Welsh Assembly are now taxing the shoppers and handing over the revenue to the shopkeepers themselves.
I wonder if the "Minister for Environment, Sustainability and Housing", a mouthful in itself, and her staff had thought things through, all they needed to do was outlaw 1 use bags that do not decompose, and let the markets do the rest.
Jane Davidson,the minister, is to retire and take up a sinecure with ..... I can't remember who .... but sooner rather than later please, you are very high maintenance.
Complain about this comment
#2
Just think what this Parish Council could do with full law making powers.
On the other hand perhaps not, you will only end up having nightmares.
Complain about this comment
OK lets look at this one.
This proposed measure grew out of a public consultation exercise organised by the BBC to see what laws people wanted passed, they ran a feature called "If I Ruled the World". The outcome of that was that the most popular suggestion was passed on to the National Assembly, and the winner, the proposal to reduce the use of disposable one use plastic bags. So this is a good example of the National Assembly responding to public demand.
There is no doubt that plastic bags are something that contributes to litter and environmental damage (leatherbacked turtles being one of the victims). It is unnecessary for us to continue to use one use plastic bags when it is perfectly possible to reuse better bags time and time again. The proposal is that if you request a one use bag then you pay a charge, to avoid paying a charge bring a bag. Because the National Assembly does not have taxation powers it can't collect the charge (though I think that is a nonsense and there should be a way around that). At present a voluntary agreement is proposed where the shops will ring fence the money collected and pass it on to environmental projects, as does Marks and Spensers at present.
Ireland's experience on this shows a drop of 80-90% in usage of such bags.
Stonemason I have some sympathy with your views on this one, but the objections of the market are very strong on this one... I would like both approaches used. I would require that all packaging is either fully recyclable or decomposes fairly rapidly, I would request a levy on bags to encourage people to reuse bags. It isn't a great imposition on people to do this and there is no reason why anyone should be disadvantaged by this. Surely after spending a few pounds (at most) you are going to have bags to last you indefinitely. After all that is what we did at one time.
So to sum up, this was a popular suggestion, it works, it costs you next to nothing - unless you refuse to reuse bags, it has a positive impact on the environment.
Complain about this comment
This is the sort of initiative the WAG should be encouraging whereby business reduces unnecessary waste which not only saves the environment it also saves business and the consumer money
The effective "tax" on plastic bags is just a populist gimmick based that was not thought through, is too late to do any good and costs the consumer money.
"Amazon takes on "wrap rage" with packaging initiative
Dealing with plastic blister packaging and an endless stream of twistie ties can get tiring pretty quickly. Amazon now says that it's trying to reduce "wrap rage" by launching a new packaging initiative that makes things simple to open and reduces waste in the process."
http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2008/11/amazon-takes-on-wrap-rage-with-packaging-initiative.ars
Complain about this comment
They should indeed, and lets not forget that the public have a responsibility to, demand less packaging. Sweden mandated standerdised plastic and glass bottles to make for easier recycling and reuse. No reason why that couldn't be done. I am old enough to remember returnable bottles for domestos, cost 9d, 3d of which was deposit. Now I don't think that a charge for one use plastic bags is a gimmick it has been used successfully in Ireland, so a good weapon in the armoury.
Complain about this comment
I often questions Labours choice of Ministers for this role first we had a vegetarian in Christine Gwyther then we had a divorce lawyer in Carwyn
Jones and now we have a primary school teacher who just happened to be a researcher for Rhodri. Her expertise for her role seems to be a yearning to be high born and wear green wellies, love of travelling(at our expense),obsession with wind farms(future role maybe Stoney) and a hatred of bone fide fishermen,farmers,everything rural and of course carrier bags.
With her 'aristocratic air' I can't imagine her shopping at Tesco or Lidl
or needing to buy carrier bags at 15p a time she most probably has hers
delivered from Waitrose or Howells and books it down to expenses.
Another shambles from 'the duchess' no indication of how,where or on what the money will be spent from the sale of these bags and if as
suggested the decision will be left to the local councils it will I
fear end up on a (green carbon neutral)christmas party.
Complain about this comment
This is what happens when a REGION OF ENGLAND starts taking ideas from Ireland. Ireland illegally beoke away from England and look where they have ended up. The NATS are out of control...plastic carrier bags will be the THIN END OF THE NAT WEDGE.
Complain about this comment
Which is the greater danger to have plastic bags that are Biodegradable or have bags for life that carry everything such as tins, cooked meats uncooked meats, dairy produce etc. Then become a danger to us because they are in turn saturated with bacteria and Ecoli. With the rush bags the fibres can attach themselves to the produce.
If you wash them you have to make sure it is done properly or it will increase the bacteria in them. Hmm, a dilemma I think.
Complain about this comment
8
WelshKnot
Now the 'Welsh Nationalists' are to blame for what the Dail Mail is taking credit for.
Unless you are meaning the English Nationalists of course.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1225067/Welsh-lead-blitz-plastic-bags-charge-promise-2011.html
Complain about this comment
No dilema, the ban does not extend to bags that would be used to carry meat or other products, indeed when was the last time you had meat lose? I would suggest you read up on what is actually proposed.
Complain about this comment
Oh and of course if people don't want to pay the 15p they can bring their own bags/boxes etc.
Complain about this comment
10 - The Daily Mail is usually a sensible paper, although it makes occasional loony left slips like this.
Of course it is the NATS who are to blame. They are to blame for EVERYTHING.
Complain about this comment
The real issue here is simple arithmetic, if carries bags are degradable and rot down to nothing then whatever you do to nothing you still end up with nothing. So it does not matter if its a million or a billion bags you still end up with nothing.
#9 has a good point about reusable bags needing to be kept clean for fear of food poisoning.
When you have Labour ministers being influenced by the Daily Mail you know the "End is Neigh". Clearly an act of desperation, and to quote the old adage "Dont Believe Everything You Read In The Newspapers". I would have thought that politicians were the first people to realise this fact.
#7 Its the "Mockney" that really turns me off! This sums it up
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mockney
It also explains the issue over carrier bags!
Complain about this comment
11
Lyn-Thomas
Every week we carry meat including chicken from Aberdare Market, both cooked and uncooked in the same bag or shopping trolley.
We shop localy for all our fresh produce and support local businesses, do you. Acctualy all our shopping is done with our own bags which we take every where with us. but we do occasionaly use the Biodegradable bags the stalls give as well.
So please don't be so self righteous.
13
WelshKnot
10 - The Daily Mail is usually a sensible paper, although it makes occasional loony left slips like this.
Of course it is the NATS who are to blame. They are to blame for EVERYTHING.
That's the English Nats I take it.
The local Social Club are looking for comedians like you for Saturday nights. Sensible paper indeed, I am rolling on the floor laughing.
.
#7 Its the "Mockney" that really turns me off! This sums it up
That's the falsness of Labour Politicians just to garner votes and make us think they are one of the common people. The common people just fall for it like they used to with the landed gentry when they used buy their votes down at the pub.
Complain about this comment
15
Fear not (or knot), for ‘WelshKnot’ is a figment of my imagination. After an upgrade I could not get back on the system as ‘Returnee’ and decided to try for an evening to get into the mindset of those who appear to abhor everything to do with Wales. The experience reminded me of a character in a Woody Allen film who starts supporting Gorge Bush, to the horror of his parents. It transpired that he had an affliction which rendered most of his brain sessile. A quick operation and he was back to normal. It is fascinating, trying to imagine what it is like to regard the Tories as pinko sell-outs, to have to resort to capital letters whenever expressing a feeling about Wales and to regard the Daily Mail as suspect to liberal urges, all in the cause of reductionist thinking. I was tempted to carry on for twenty four hours, but one evening was quite enough. So the ‘Welsh Hate Eight’ are back to being the ‘Sulky Seven’.
Complain about this comment
Then don't be so absurd alfsplace1986 - biodegradable bags for use for wrapping meat etc in fine, but the use of reusable bags should be encouraged where ever possible, and a charge on one use bags is a good method of encouraging people to do as you do. And yes I use local shops and small retailers when ever I can. I am not sure what we are arguing over as you seem to agree that use of one use non biodegradable bags is not desirable.
Complain about this comment
Where "Skomer Vole" is quoted at #2 as writing .....
...... our very own Lords and Ladies of misrule at the Welsh Assembly are now taxing the shoppers and handing over the revenue to the shopkeepers themselves. I wonder if the "Minister for Environment .... and her staff had thought things through, all they needed to do was outlaw 1 use bags that do not decompose, and let the markets do the rest.
I suspect this new legislation will require a new department to administer its application, whereas a simple unambiguous law with stiff penalties applied to both bag suppliers and shopkeepers would remove the offending bags from Wales overnight, too simple for the legislators.
Complain about this comment
View these comments in RSS