Cultural understanding?
On St Andrew's Day I wonder how tempted Alex Salmond will be to raise some questions -perhaps answer a few - about his future plans for an independent Scotland?
How soon after that would the UK Government be obliged to offer their own answers to come questions raised by the Calman Commission earlier this year. Will they take the same opportunity to respond to the Holtham Commission?
It's questions, questions, question these days. Here are a few more for you:
Does the majority of the population of Wales understand the devolution settlement?
No.
To what extent do they need to understand it? To what extent does it matter if their understanding is scant?
Not just debatable but about to be hotly debated when the All Wales Convention report their own findings on November 18th, the day - incidentally - of the Queen's Speech.
How much do people who live in the UK but not in Wales understand about day to day life here? Do they know what would be different for their families if their company relocated here for instance? Do they know how the health service differs, how the education offered to their children would be different?
What do they think it feels like to live in a bilingual country?
Listening to yesterday's edition of Radio 4's Front Row with Mark Lawson makes you wonder.
This week we learned what the brand new National Theatre Wales will look like. Its Artistic Director, John E McGrath was invited onto the programme to talk about it. Good news you say, promoting understanding of what goes on here beyond Wales etc The conversation moved on to the National Theatre's peripatetic nature and a comparison made with the National Theatre in Scotland. This is how it went:
LAWSON: But far more than it arises perhaps in Scotland, you have the language question, which is whether the plays should be performed in English or in Welsh how have you resolved that one?
MCGRATH: Well we've come up with a canny solution for that in Wales, which is to create two theatre companies, National Theatre Wales and Theatr Genedlaethol Cymru. Theatr Genedlaethol has been going for a few years now, so that's really opened a space up for an English language theatre.
LAWSON: So all your plays will be performed in English?
MCGRATH: They'll be performed in English but more important than that they'll be performed in theatre.
LAWSON: I understand but we know that this is a big political issue in Wales. You are confident that you won't have people standing outside the theatre with placards which many of your actors and writers won't be able to read, protesting about the fact that it's all in English?
MCGRATH: There's been absolutely nothing but enthusiasm for the project in Wales and the Welsh speaking community's been a huge part of the support. It's an issue I think for people in England, it's not an issue for people in Wales. Here we're talking about a very confident country that has increasingly got its own government and wants to speak to the world.
There are plenty of questions in the wind these days about the quality of theatre provision in Wales, be it in English or in Welsh. The Culture Minister has been posing a few questions of his own this week and given he's the man holding the purse strings, ears in theatre land will prick up and listen.
But promoting understanding of where we're at in Wales? Are there really intelligent, erudite cultural commentators in England who believe there would be noisy protests outside national theatre productions in Wales, simply because they're put on in English?
Apparently so. There wouldn't of course but to what extent does it matter that some people think there would? Quite a lot, I'd say.
If you're interested, listen back to the interview here.
I'm Betsan Powys, BBC Wales' political editor. I'll be blogging the inside track on 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~00~RS~)
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WelshKnot/Returnee
That was realy funny and clever you got one on me at least
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Betsan
The presenters must have been briefed by the anti's on here before they went on air to comment with that rubbish.
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2 alfsplace1986 where you write .....
The presenters must have been briefed by the anti's on here before they went on air to comment with that rubbish.
Could you explain you comment, how exactly is it "rubbish" ?
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Clearly, devolution didn't come a moment too soon. This kind of ignorance - and he didn't know when to stop digging! - is perfectly acceptable amongst London cultural commentators.
I wish the new company well.
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Re 4
I also had the same problems as penddu, but my name change is very slight.
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Betsan
What a pratt that interviewer was and such a shallow interview.
When he could have discussed what The National Theatre of Wales could achieve he was more concerned about people with plackcards protesting ???.
Do they protest in England outside Covent Garden when operas are in other languages then.
All I can say is thank goodness for BBC Wales.
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Betsan wrote
"Are there really intelligent, erudite cultural commentators in England who believe there would be noisy protests outside national theatre productions in Wales, simply because they're put on in English?
Apparently so. There wouldn't of course"
Wouldn't??? are we talking about the Wales that I've lived in my whole life? Are we talking about the Wales where town shops are 'tagged' with the spraypainted slogan "Cymraeg??" on a daily basis for such a trivial issue as forgetting to label the toothpaste section in Welsh when the rest of the store is bilingual. Are we talking about the same Wales where Welsh language society activists stormed the Radio Carmarthen station and fractured the wrist of one of the DJs all because they felt that the Radio station didnt broadcast enough in Welsh?
Frankly I'm amazed that regular events such as these (and hundreds of others... enough to bring down a BBC server) have passed you by. I think you are being a little unfair attacking Mark Lawson in this way. Highlighting that he is English and that this is the reason is a bit divisive too... Most Welsh people would be unsure as to what ruptions an all English language theatre might provoke. Surely you must realise that there are many organised Welsh language pressure groups in this country that state 'non violent direct action' within their description. Campaigning outside an English language only theatre production would be right up their street I can assure you!
I am failing to see the point of all this... this radio transcript is a non issue. Clearly some are touchy about it.
Additionally, I'm a bit concerned about the bit where you say:
"How much do people who live in the UK but not in Wales understand about day to day life here? Do they know what would be different for their families if their company relocated here for instance? What do they think it feels like to live in a bilingual country?"
Day to day life in somewhere where 'somebodys company might relocate to' in Wales (i.e. South East) is almost identical to anywhere else in the UK. These parts of Wales are not bilingual. I see Welsh everyday but could go for months without hearing it. Whilst there may be bilingual counties, the description of Wales as a bilingual country is a stretch too far. After all there are more English born people here than there are Welsh speakers (and many many more with English parents/grandparents). Why should anybody be suggesting that people from elsewhere in the UK are going to experience a cultural shock coming here? It's simply not true and comes across a bit as 'Keep out of Wales'... I thought we Welsh had matured a bit from that.
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Try making a complaint or a protest if you are English, do not expect anyone least of all elect representatives to help you, and as far as higher education is concerned go to another part of the UK.
I am afraid 'Keep out of Wales' is exactly how it comes across.
People should be aware of that before they move here.
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Re 7
New blogger, same paranoia. If he thinks that there would be protests, it makes me think that he doesn't really live in Wales at all.
What is interesting is how touchy some people are when anything at all with the slightest criticism of the English is said, whereas us Welsh - as the history of this blog proves - are fair game.
Re 3
It's 'rubbish' Stonemason, because he didn't understand the set-up in Wales, and he should have been fully briefed; or better still, he should have done the homework himself as a very highly paid so-called professional.
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re: no. 9
Oh so because you dont like my views and the well documented truth I cant really live in Wales? Why not go the whole hog and live up to the sterotype by calling me english or not proper Welsh.
How can you even be arguing this point? Do you debate against the moon landings too? Where you not in the same Wales as me when our government practically stopped working for 2 weeks this autumn whilst they were at each other's throats over the decision to stop overnight translation of Assembly minutes into Welsh. I think it is a very fair point to suggest that there might be a protest if the National theatre only put on productions in English... we've all seen it happen for much lesser things.
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Sorry what I meant was it is certainly ok to suggest that there might be protests in a concerned manner (concerned either for the organiser or the public). It is not ok to make a joke of that possibility... but there doesnt appear to be humour in the transcript. I must clarify that I didnt hear it on the radio for real.
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11
comeoffit
here it is
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00njg1s
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It will be interesting to calculate the cost of each sold seat in a twelve-months time, in both theatres, to see how much the poor of Gwent (and elsewhere) have subsidised a minority.
And Fo, I would advocate such actions with other subsidised entertainment, no-matter where it is based, including TV and radio.
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Re 10
Why can't we be sensible about this? A Welsh language National Theatre Company already exists!!!!! Why would there be protests against what is about to happen in English - this is a fantastic development. Yours is a silly, silly argument.
Re 13
Are you really only able to see the worth of anything by knowing its price? But I trust your list would run to Trooping of the Colour, all military bands, all military uniforms intended only for parades, all the finery the royal family scrounge off us, their crown jewels, their tiaras and all their other finery?
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I suspect that each seat might be subsidised by the increasingly frustrated (and poorer) Welsh tax-payer,to the tune of around £84 per seat.
Which is almost exactly the subsidy per seat on the Ieuan-Air Cardiff to Anglesey flights.
So the rampant assembly "Self-Justication" expenditure continues. It is little wonder then that more and more are now looking on the Assembly as merely a temporary boil on the backside of Wales.
Just think of the relief when it gets lanced !
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Oh for crying out loud. Anyone implying this new theatre (wonderful news; it's been a long time coming and I wish it all the best) will be protested by language campaigners is being very very very silly. No ifs, no buts. Just genuine misunderstanding or lie.
I really enjoy listening to Front Row and I'm surprised that Lawson went down that odd line of questioning. What a wasted opportunity where he could have enquired the artistic director about, you know, his artistic vision and stuff.
I don't understand the mind that would accuse Welsh speaking theatregoers of protesting these shows. Not only has Theatr Genedlaethol Cymru already been staging shows in Welsh for years, we're now spoilt for choice since we can go see these new English-language ones as well.
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I take it then that Stoney and Noa are just as opposed to the ridiculously so called National Theatre of Great Britain (I'm told that is its full name!!!!!) that can be found on that expensive bit of real estate on the South Bank in London, in the capital city of England. Funny that - I haven't heard a word said against by either of them in all this time...
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Comeoffit - a potato sized chip on your shoulder. . . surely you can see that this was a wind up that had no place on radio 4? It was beneath contempt. Please tell me the last time there was a large scale placard waving protest that was anti English language. There is, as has been pointed out here already, a Theatre Genedlaethol (Welsh langauge) and Mark LAwson should have been aware of this. WHo knows, maybe he was, but chose to ask this provocotive question anyway. Well done to McGrath for answering such dross sensibly.
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There does seem to be this wierd perception in England that all Welsh 'nationilists', for want of a better term, are Welsh speeking fanatics who object to anything in wales being done in English.
It's noticable even in places as close as Bristol, where I have friends which I visited recently. After a long conversation about devvolutions pros and cons and my views on the subject, I caused a bit of supprise by saying I didn't speak Welsh.
One of the problems is Plaid Cymru, they are the most obvious and visable force for Welsh nationalism and people instantly see a party that is massivly focused around the Welsh language.
One of the biggest problems however is our 'little guy' attitude. I think Welsh people, particularly Welsh speakers, do over emphasise Welsh heritage. Also we do have a dendancy to jump on anyone who says anything even mildly anti Wales, even if it's meant as a friendly digg or a shared joke.
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Re 7.
Regular event of anti-english protests, vandalism and violence?
I'm From the south Wales valleys, went to uni in cardiff and still live there. I've seen possibly two incldents of Welsh 'anti-english' violence and that was from Cardiff City fans during a Wales v England football match, they'll have a fight with anyone for supporting the opposition anyway.
You seem to have forgotten the whole point, Wales is Bilingual, but not as much as it should be. Is it wrong to wan't it more welsh? Is it wrong for me to wish I'd had decent welsh lessons in school so I could speak my countries language? Is it wrong for our Assembly goverment to debate about their everyday opperations not being translated into Welsh?
As far as the sterotype calling you 'not proper welsh', thats a very rare thing and is targeted at pretty much everyone by the more fanatical Welsh speakers.
Your point about people coming into south east wales and not noticing a difference is quite a valid one, and its something that needs to change. There needs to be much more emphasis on Welsh culture and the Welsh language, but as I've said about we need to be carefull we don't push it too hard and get a negative reaction from people. That would just make the task harder.
You also seem to be acusing Betsan of being 'racist', or at least xenophobic, merely for pointing out that an English guy, from England, didn't quite understand the facts of life in Wales.
Reading you posts gives me the impression that you have a very large and fairly ugly axe to grind, and your swinging it quite wildly at anything remotly Pro welsh culture.
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17 FoDafydd wrote .....
....... Funny that - I haven't heard a word said against by either of them in all this time...
Are you unable to read, or did you ignore the sentiment at #13; a subsidy of your leisure activities picked from my pocket, no matter where, is just plain wrong, you might consider asking the electorate if they wish to subsidise your not so small peccadillos.
A point to remedy your military ignorance, all military bands have alternative duties, the Welsh Guards Musicians currently in the band have secondary roles in the British Army as Chemical Decontamination Assistants, Medics and Drivers. All part of the defence of the Realm old chum.
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21
TheStonemason
Old chum? How posh, how pretentious. how pathetic
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The Stonemason - it really is an infantile argument. "A subsidy of your leisure activities picked from my pocket". Can you not do better than that? It's so damn depressing, reading such nonsense. Why is it "just plain wrong". The Uk is a hugely creative nation and without subsidy and investment that creative talent would have no hope. It's inevitable that some of them money will be poorly spent but that, as they say, is life. . .
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#22
No contribution, no change.
#23
You must let me know where you drink, I'll pop along and put some money across the bar for you, improbable, absolutely. Is there a difference between a night out for a drink and the theatre? not a lot, except at the our provincial theatres' I have no choice but to subsidise the audience, in the hotel I am able to keep my wallet where you cannot waste its contents, where your culture minister cannot get his sticky fingers.
Money poorly spent, sounds a little like the Plaid-Morgan coalition ..........
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I wish the new National Theatre of Wales well, good to have such a body working in English.
And for those that don't get it, Stonemason is opposed to all government expenditure other than that on the military, the police and the courts, its on his blog - or was, has now been taken down, but he did state that he believed that security should be the only concern of government. He has attacked public funding of the arts, culture and sports/recreation. So he is consistent.
For a respected Radio 4 commentator to get it so wrong suggests real problems with how Wales is perceived by the BBC in England, no great surprise there.
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#25 Lyn_Thomas ....
I am consistent in my call for small government, lets get things right for a change; in my view entertainment supplied by a political committee, or quango, is an abuse of power.
The majority of entertainments win through because the public support the ventures through their pockets, if a certain group of people wish for theatre fine, but let them pay for it in full, why should the poor of Gwynedd subsidise it?
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#25 You said
"For a respected Radio 4 commentator to get it so wrong suggests real problems with how Wales is perceived by the BBC in England, no great surprise there."
Where did he get this perception from, and is he wrong?
Moving into Wales I had a perception that devolution meant more power to the common people.
How stupid of me to think such a thing, I got it totally wrong, so please accept my humble apologies.
It just goes to show that as far as perception is concerned Wales has a serious image problem, and for many people it is real and not a figment of their imagination.
Having said that as far as I am concerned it is nothing to do the Welsh, their language or their culture but every thing to do with the way in which we are governed, and people making the mistake of combining the two very seperate issues.
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Betsan
you say;
How much do people who live in the UK but not in Wales understand about day to day life here? Do they know what would be different for their families if their company relocated here for instance? Do they know how the health service differs, how the education offered to their children would be different?
What do they think it feels like to live in a bilingual country?
Out here in the real world:
1/ There is no difference in the real world for Day to Day life between those of us in Wales and the rest of the UK!
2/ The problems with our health service and education are due to the incompetance of the Assembly Government, and the need to divert funds to other things. - that doesn't make life in Wales different.
Any more than the bin collection in Leeds makes day to day life different from life in Bristol, just another annoying problem due to incompetant officialdom.
3/ Wales is not a bilingual country, it is a country with two languages. One of which is only spoken by 20 - 25% of the population, of which perhaps less than 10% use it on a daily basis.
The duel language signage, documentation, and spin is simply political game playing, a sop to activists, as is the legislation, and forced education.
All to give an artificial impression of a bilingual country.
Except for the activists and fanatics it is all an expensive nuisence.
If our Devolved Government just got on with dealing with our real problems instead of trying to build a fantasy land with an idealised dream Celtic Culture, we may just have a better quality of life - and our Kids get some opportunities in the World.
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Stonemason you are consistent, you oppose state funding of the arts, culture and leisure - you have previously stated that you oppose all state provision of anything other than security. So you are opposed to the NHS and state provided education.
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Re 29
Yes, well, memory loss seems to afflict those who are losing the argument.
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It's repetitive nonsense from you both Lyn_Thomas and FoDafydd, I refer you to my last at #26, and remind you both that less is more, in particular small government.
If you were both serious debaters you might attempt the demolition of Neocromwellian at #27 or West-Wales at at #28 rather than tilting at the "Windmills" in your minds.
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Re 27
All pretty irrelevant.
Re 28
1. In the real world we have a National Assembly and a Welsh Assembly Government - in what possible way is that not different to the rest of the UK.
2. If you and sufficient numbers among the Welsh nation believe that to be the case, then change the government! It's called democracy.
3. As you probably regard me as a fanatic, nothing I say will make a blind bit of difference. But Wales is a bilingual nation, and increasingly so because English speaking parents in greater numbers year after year wish their children to have that ability, or that skill. That's why I was shocked when you were recently BOASTING of your children's inability to speak another language.
And perhaps one day Stonemason will have the nerve to answer some questions aimed to him.
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FoDafydd #32
Just a couple of comments;
1/ The National Assembly and Welsh Assembly Government is not the real world it is a theater, the play is a black comedy.
The real world is the people of Wales, the high street, work place, and the play ground.
Just getting on with life, enjoying our home and our family.
The Assembly like some alien monster is striving to destroy what we hold dear and replace it with some fantasy, they believe is Welsh.
It isn't - what we have is Welsh, here Pembrokeshire Welsh.
2/ The Welsh Assembly Government has proved it is not capable of properly dealing with the devolved powers for Health and Education.
The answer is not to change the government - the answer is to dissolve the Assembly and return jurisdiction to Westminster.
Democracy is failing us because we cannot get the needed Referendum to do that. - Democracy will only work if those elected to power have the will to make it work.
Here in Wales our elected representatives and the media have too much to loose to allow the people to speak.
3/ Again you descend to insults - FoDafydd I never boast - simply state facts.
The fact in this case is that for my children, and many other children in Wales, learning to speak Welsh is a waste of time and effort - there are other languages that would be of much greater use.
Conversation Closed
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33. You are absolutely right in that this "mickey mouse" organization is living in fantasy land and is so politically introverted it thinks in ways so removed from ordinary welsh people. The Government in Westminster has taken the much neede decision to protect the energy situation in UK by encouraging Nuclear Power plans,including one in Wylfa which is apparently situated in remote Island in north west wales which has severe economic problems. The local Labour MP supports its development,and mysteriously the local Plaid AM also supports it with gritted teeth,whilst his party is opposed to NP in principle. The AM is the Deputy First Minister in One Wales Government that was created by the wisest fool in Christendom,i.e. King Rhodri Morgan who came on to television to oppose the development of NP in Wales as we can rely on "renewals". This is the world surely of Hans Christian Anderson,where a major capital investment and provision of energy is effectively opposed by a First Minister in principle,but supported by his Deputy for personal political gain. It is absolutely obvious for security of energy supplies is going to one of the major concerns for western powers in future century,as we must reduce reduce dependancy on oil from middle east and gas from Russia,however our WAG is riven from top to bottom on this issue. I would'nt trust these jokers to run a whelk stall,rather than the future of energy provision in this remove region of UK.
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