It's goodbye from him
That Rhodri Morgan stepped on to the stage for his big Welsh night farewell during "the fightback conference" as it was dubbed must have been a bit galling but he'd have to admit it made sense somehow. The irony was there for all to see. The man's personal appeal might not have waned one bit but his party's under his leadership? It's been hitting an all time low.
Let's come out with it: Rhodri Morgan is remarkably popular - not just well known, not just well liked but genuinely respected. He's the First Minister who has a pint down the pub. He's the local Assembly Member who buys his loaf in the farmer's market on a Sunday morning looking like the rest of us on a Sunday morning. He's the man who shows you his garden and the wrens nesting in it with a delight that tells you he'll have a life after all of this is over. He's the man who missed Mwnt so much last month that he went swimming in the sea off Barry Island for the first time since he was a child. "Miss Baywatch Barry Island 2009" who offered to save him clearly thought he was struggling. He revelled in what he thought was his powerful stroke.
He was our lad, put down by the Prime Minister, "shafted" as Rhodri Morgan was to put it years later by Tony Blair. He lost the election for the Labour leadership first time round to Alun Michael by 52.68% of the vote to 47.32%.
Now you can argue that 5.36% of the vote was the making of him. When he eventually got the job, it came with an enormous amount of goodwill and the feeling that the right man was now in the right job.
Even people who had no intention of voting Labour would answer the door to a canvassing Rhodri Morgan and be pleased to see him. It was "Hyia Rhodri" before - in recent years at least - going out and voting for another party or simply staying at home. His personal approval ratings as a politician caused a psephologist to send me a note saying simply: "With figures like those, Rhodri for Pope I say". Yet his party's approval ratings in Wales? With figures like those, they are, as Mr Morgan himself once said, toast.
On Sunday night in Brighton he was saying goodbye to a party with its back against the wall, a party that was beaten to second place in Wales by the Conservatives back in June and that has happened on his watch. How is it, one colleague and friend after another has said over the past few weeks, that people like Rhodri more than they like most politicians virtually anywhere in the UK but in Wales, in successive elections now, Labour has suffered more in the polls than virtually anywhere in the UK? Why can he no longer endow his party with his own popularity?
We're about to set off to Transport House - Labour's HQ. More irony. There's rebuilding work going on inside but outside the place simply looks under siege, a bit like a bomb site. That is where Mr Morgan will tell the Welsh Executive Committee of the Labour party and his fellow Labour AMs that he intends to stand down, that - as he put in Brighton - he's getting "ready to hand the baton over to the next generation".
That's when we'll learn who really wants to grab that baton and when we start to learn whether the race for the Labour leadershp will be about personal appeal, or a realisation amongst the candidates that that doesn't seem to cut it any more.
I'm Betsan Powys, BBC Wales' political editor. I'll be blogging the inside track on 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~03~RS~)
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".... grab that baton .... ? "
".... take the chalice more like .... ! "
".... what will be your poison .... ? "
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As a person, he is well liked, I absolutely agree.
But he is a politician first and like doesn't follow through so easily there.
He was also third choice leader after Ron Davies and Alun Michael. So his own party didn't even see his talents until after a famous scandal and an internal coup d'état. The party under current leadership has flirted with the Lib Dems and are now 'sleeping' with Plaid Cymru.
So no respect for me because it has largely been about Party politics and not serious politics aimed at making the lives of all ordinary Welsh people easier.
When that happens my like will grow into respect, although i think it is a bit late for that.
Good luck Rhodri and best wishes.
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Betsan
Rhodri Morgan is remarkably popular - not just well known, not just well liked but genuinely respected.
Yes - But a poor navigator, look where he has taken Wales - and the devolution dream is certainly up the creek.
But for all that a nice Guy and I actually like him as a person.
But - perhaps your answer to;
why Labour has suffered more in the polls than virtually anywhere in the UK? Why can he no longer endow his party with his own popularity?
is the same as why few people in Wales are interested in his successor.
The Assembly and Welsh Politics is a dismal failure, its not even a talking shop - more an exclusive Internet cafe.
The comparison with Westminster or the Scottish Parliaments is stark.
Inward looking, focusing on non issues, fails basic core requirements.
There is no respect for the Assembly or our politicians, it doesn't deliver, wastes money, and is divisive.
I hope Rhodri has a long happy retirement - but I couldn't care less about his successor - there is no one in Welsh politics(in any Party) who can deliver what Wales needs.
So roll on the 2011 election, and pray for a proper referendum so we can give our verdict on the failed experiment at Cardiff Bay.
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Whilst I have had disagreements with most of the things that Rhodri has done, I still believe that he his an honest man.
He has taken a lot of flak for his public personna and many gaffes, but I would still "have a pint with him".
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Forgive me, but I have to put this in somewhere.
It is from yesterday's BBC.
Rather topical and it can be read almost any way you like:
DNA tests on British populations of small mammals show a genetically distinct "Celtic Fringe", say scientists at The University of York.
Voles, shrews, mice and stoats in northern and western areas have different DNA from their counterparts in other parts of the British Isles.
The paper, in Proceedings B journal, says the different populations arrived at the end of the last ice age.
The authors say the work sheds light on the origins of the Celtic people.
The traditional view is that the ancestors of British Celts spread from central Europe during the Iron Age and were later displaced by the arrival of the Anglo Saxons.
However, recent genetic studies have challenged this theory, suggesting a much earlier origin, dating back to the end of the last ice age, 19,000 years ago.
This paper suggests that the study of small mammal populations could help resolve the controversy.
Seven species
The team compared the mitrochondrial DNA of seven small mammal species, this being the best genetic marker for studying colonisation history.
The seven species were three types of vole: bank vole, water vole and field vole; two types of shrew: common shrew and pygmy shrew; the house mouse and the stoat.
Lead author, Professor Jeremy Searle, told BBC News: "We found this extraordinary pattern that within the British Isles you get these two genetic types for a number of species. One having peripheral distribution and one having a central and eastern distribution.
"Seeing that distribution and trying to think how it came about was interesting in itself - but also the fact that it has this similarity with the distribution of cultural and genetic types in humans."
Professor Searle said that the mitrochondrial DNA in the two groups was sufficiently different that "they could not have originated one from the other within Britain but must have originated outside Britain and come in as two separate entities".
The authors say that both types of each species must have arrived before Britain was cut off from Europe by rising sea levels 8,000 years ago.
They believe that the type now confined to the Celtic periphery colonised Britain first, sometime after the end of the last ice age, and spread throughout the British Isles.
The global climate remained mild until 12,900 years ago when a sudden drop in temperature brought permafrost back to the British Isles for more than 1,000 years. This caused a drop in the small mammal population.
A new wave
When temperatures rose again a new wave of small mammals colonised Britain and replaced the now sparse populations of the first type everywhere except on the northern and western edges.
Professor Searle suggests that a similar pattern is likely to apply to humans as there is archaeological evidence of humans in Britain after the last ice age, 19,000 years ago.
He said: "It could be that, like the small mammals, this first wave of humans did not do well during the cold spell but managed to hang on. Once it was over, another group came in and replaced the first type everywhere apart from the peripheral areas.
"And so one could suggest that the human Celtic Fringe was set up by exactly the same sort of events that set up the animal Celtic Fringe.
He suggests that the Celtic Fringe has since been reinforced culturally by different sets of people occupying the fringe areas and also what is now England, for instance the Romans, Anglo Saxons and Normans.
"This fits well with studies that others are doing on human genetic patterns and with the growing idea that the Celtic genetic type has been there a very long time."
Dr John Stewart of The Natural History Museum said he appreciated the paper's realistic approach to the issue: "It is only by looking at a variety of different organisms that we can see genetic biogeographic patterns emerging."
"It is really important to treat humans as part of a suite of animals that were being pushed and pulled around the landscape by changes in climate."
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Can somrbody tell me what RHODRY MORGANS successor will be a successor too..
The welsh assembly as it stands is absolutely no good to the people of wales..
MR MORGANS successor will inherit a white elephant.
Something has to be done to convince the welsh people that the welsh assembly has any real function.
MR MORGAN might by a nice man,but it does'nt make him a good politician,So all the pleasantries though nice,does'nt help wales,You only have to take a walk around the welsh capitol to see what use the assembly really is.
Our once beautiful city has been turned into a building site,So the legacy MR MORGAN leaves it not one he should be proud of.
In the next general election i will once again be voting labour,as i believe there is no viable alternative to them,Its just a shame that wales is not still governed from london.
BUT I BELIEVE IT WILL BE A VOTE FOR A LOSING PARTY..
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Rhodri Morgan - a popular man - maybe - but largely unknown certainly outside Wales (another inward-looking problem for Wales). Frankly whether he's a nice guy or not is irrelevant - too much store is put in this in Wales. Question is - has he made his mark on Wales? Is he leaving it in a better state than before his 'reign'?
No to all those questions. From the minute he took over (whoever he was - no doubt well known to the closed shop known as the Welsh Labour Party) - he's portrayed a shambling and incompetent image of Wales to the outside world - it's all very well being known in Wales but there's a big world out there that Wales seems to steadfastly ignore (usually on the basis that Wales is 'different' and anything to be learned from outside won't work in Wales).
Nothing in Wales is as good as I remember it - we regularly miss out on things that other parts of the UK have - better NHS, better education, better roads (that are actually needed and don't collapse under us), pretty much everything.
And what we've ended up with is an incompetent and undemocratic organisation, housed in a building that looks no better than a glass bus shelter in the Bay. An organisation that is condoning creeping changes in language forcing people to speak Welsh - promotes mediocrity, and is looking firmly into the past to a closed horizon - not something for a 'nation' to aspire for is it? They keep calling Wales a nation and it isn't - it's a principality like Luxembourg - and not that good. Scenery is good though.
Wales used to be known as a place of social reform and of fighting for changes for the good. Seems to me that we're now a region that is happy as long as it's got enough to live on, rugby is the top story on the news, and there's cheap lager to get legless on.
I used to be so proud to be from here - now I find myself apologising for what goes on here. And annoyed that there are still no professional jobs here - no different to when I left school in the 70s - great to see such progress.
I seriously considering leaving again after only 6 years here.
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message 5
Re the house mouse
They may or may not be different to other mice
but
they still are just as inquisitive about mouse traps
and
they die in those traps just the same.
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I had the fortune/misfortune (delete as appropriate) to live in Cardiff for 29 years and to see the birth of the Welsh Assembly at first hand. Rhodri Morgan and the Welsh Assembly used to drive me up the wall as they seemed to generate very little apart from a lot of hot air and Rhodri's nickname of "Welsh windbag" seemed very appropriate but in retrospect he has one quality for which he will be appreciated and remembered; one which has proved to be sadly lacking in politicians everywhere viz integrity. In retrospect I'm glad he was leader rather than Ron Davies. What a disaster that would have been.
I agree with much of the above about the Assembly government ie that they seem to have achieved very little and just seemed to be tinkering at the edges rather than making policy changes but maybe they were saddled with too high expectations and they needed an "elder statesman" such as Rhodri to hold them together while they "bedded in".
I've been back in England for the past 3 years and so have lost touch with what's happening in Wales politically but only today I heard that a re-jigging of the Welsh health service is about to take place. Wales has lead the way on one or two things notably the abolition of Sats tests. For my money the best person to actually achieve some forward looking changes was/is Jane Davison. As to who should become leader well I'm in no position to make any suggestions now I'm no longer in Wales but from where I am now for all it's faults, I would judge the Welsh Assembly government and Rhodri Morgan to have been a very positive force in Wales.
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A walk around Cardiff and then a walk around Llanelli or Cardigan and we'll see what Rhodri's done for 'WALES'. He's replicated the English
model of a rich South East and a poorer North/West and kept the money and wealth well and truly in Cardiff.If Alun Michael was a 'puppet to Westminster then Rhodri Morgan was a 'puppet to the Cardiff Elite' and after coalition a 'puppet to Plaid' one could say a sort of 'Political Pinochio' he certainly had the nose for it if you get my drift.
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#7 Monbordergirl
I agree there's a depressing lack of ambition, a contentment with mediocrity, but it's unfair to blame the Welsh Assembly. The roots go a long way back, beyond the loss of heavy industry and the dependency culture that followed. It's a lot about the way entrepreneurs failed to invest in social infrastructure in the communities whose raw materials they were extracting, and that problem is at least two centuries old.
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Returnee #5
Wrong place for your very interesting post.
I will read up on it - falls into an area I am very interested in, and may help my own part time research.!!
There are serious questions which if not answered in the paper, will prompt further examination.
But - Because this is not the right thread, only a brief comment.
Stewart's comment, as I would expect from him, is spot on:
"It is really important to treat humans as part of a suite of animals that were being pushed and pulled around the landscape by changes in climate."
However who are the Celts;
Probably fairly well accepted now that the basic indigenous Neolithic bloodstock of the UK hasn't changed much, but has been diluted, over many thousands of years!!
DNA variation across the UK is small and differences are largely an overlay on a single basic pattern.
Arguably, when we talk about Celts we are not talking about a people, but a culture!!!
The Celtic Culture, and with it, probably, the proto Insular Celtic language, appear to have arrived here midway in the last millennium BC - not because of migration or invasion - but diffusion.
That much seems to be accepted across the research community.
Much like a religion it seems to have spread through the resident tribes.
The ancient myths and legends of the teachers and knowledge bringers may have some substance - as I'm sure Tolkien would have agreed.
Interesting that the Irish, Manx, & Scottish Celtic Culture have a different foundation Goidelic, from the Breton,Cornish, & Welsh, which is Brythonic. - Different teachers perhaps.
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There's a paradox here (or maybe just confusion) with people who oppose the Assembly having more powers, or being in existence at all, criticising the Assembly for not doing enough, for just 'tinkering'. You can't have it both ways.
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7 Why do you consider Wales not to be a nation, but a principality?
Look at these two definitions from Oxford Dictionary, and tell me which one sounds more like Wales??
nation
• a large body of people united by common descent, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular state or territory.
principality
• a state ruled by a prince.
Wales has not been a principality since 1536, and the title bestowed by the Queen of England on her eldest son gives him no rights or powers whatsoever with regards to Wales.
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message 5...
Yes I can forgive you for putting that load of waffle on the blog, but in doing so, let me tell you I also saw the report, and queried the use of the term 'Celtic' in reference to the fauna distribution, and its genetic involvement.
The answer I got was.. "It was a 'convenient' tag to use, as that seems to be the way the human distribution plan pans out".
The person I spoke to went on to make it clear that there is absolutely NOTHING in the report that can be used to imply there is any form of Celtic genetic DNA trace in the fauna under discussion.
The term used was simply to say that due to outwards expansion, maybe coupled to rearwards pressure from succeeding incomers, the distributon of animals more or less emulated what is believed by some, to be the track of Celts as they moved ever westwards.
Beyond that, as I and others, have made clear, according to recent records and reseaches there is virtually nothing, if indeed anything at all, that demonstrates Celtic involvement in the prehistorical demographics of Wales, or anywhere else in these islands.
Back to the classroom I think for you pal.
Sorry pal, but you are way off track with your whole thesis.
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re 15 "load of waffle"......sounds like you Ma Pexx
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Looking from the foothills of ordinary life in wales our King Rhodri is from the "top drawer" in terms of intelligence/language skills/social skills,however he has restricted those talents in the main to wales and not the wider world. During his time as MP when the Right Honorable Anthony Lynton Charles Blair was PM he did not gain any position,however minor in proper government,and plainly Blair was completely against him becoming FM in the "mickey mouse" government in Bay of Irrelevance. When you see some of the dumbos appointed by Blair then this must reflect badly on King Rhodri and his role in the big bad world. He then "scuttles" back to the principality and eventually becomes a very big fish in very,very small pool,and the rest is history. His FAME is restricted to not really whole of wales,as gentleman said from MOLD the Assembly/Cardiff is very remote from his part of world and many people would'nt know King Rhodri from Adam. As you can see from BP's blog the retirement of King Rhodri has exercised the minds of BBC Wales for weeks,however rest of world goes along with barely a ripple. In conclusion he was very lucky in that he and the rest of WAG had great treasure from England to spend following the totally unsustainable boom of Blair/Brown which was based on borrowing and my children/grandchildren will be paying back over years. The money has been lavished on public sector without any structural reforms to produce economic return for taxpayers "investments",hence the major problems in public sector in future years. If you give people what they want,i.e Freebies everywhere,except to taxpayers then your bound to be popular,however he's only passed the problems on to his successor,whoever thats going to be.
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I hate to be pedantic, but can you tell me what Westminster government has done for Wales?
On th eone hand you complain that the Assembly doesn't have enough powers, and on the other you think it's got too many.
You say the Scottish parliament is better but then complain that even limited devolution is too much.
Which is it?
The Welsh Assembly is being blamed for massive scale uselessness on the part of 18 years of tory rule , which decimated Wales, and 12 years of Labour rule, in which things got worse.
The major decisions are still made by an expensive, tribal and inept Westminster cabal of people pandering to the SE of England. It costs 5 times more to have aMP than a AM. That's before you look at the billions it takes to run Westminster's buildings, staff, canteens and bars, etc.
If you want to abolish the Assembly, then go ahead and try to get a referendum on that, because there ain't one on the cards.
The referendum, if it happens, will be on whether you want to be run (badly) by a London cabal of toffs and NuLab clones, or whether you want a Wales-based assembly with enough powers to be actually deserving of the misuse of powers you try to impute to it.
It seems rather unfair to blame it for not having powers, then blame it for everything that's gone wrong in Wales since those Celtic gerbils first arrived.
Some of you have this pathological sense that you're ruled by the Welsh Assembly. You're not. You're ruled by a clique of people in Westminster who are desperate to butter up millionaire donors, tabloid newspapers and Southern England constituencies. Get over it.
As Labour's election supremo Mandelson said last week : 'British elections are won and lost in the South east of England'. I think that gives you a sense of where Wales fits in.
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Yet another mindless rant by the devout nationalist Daverodway.
Considering this blog is all about the imminent departure of the leader of the one organization you worship....the assembly, I would have thought that you could at least have made some mention of dear Rhodri.
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Labour has suffered more in the polls than virtually anywhere in the UK? Why can he no longer endow his party with his own popularity?
How on Earth can you call the vote losing Rhodri popular?
Just before the last assembly election, Rhodri Glynn Thomas was guest on Dragon's Eye, he was asked could Plaid work in a coalition with Labour? He replied..''Yes of course, Rhodri (Morgan) is very popular with Plaid language activists'' Yes I'm sure he is, but for many folk he personifies all that stinks in this incestuous region.
I no longer regard Llafur as politicians, I regard them as imposers of an alien culture and language, Rhodri is the language bully boy First Minister.
PS, I never credit the Lib Dems with anything good or bad, because I haven't got a clue what they stand for
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No 6 - This illogical rant epitomizes the bizarre argument of the anti-devolutionist. No substantive points are made with regard to the Assembly just the ramblings of a salon bar politician.
With the most bizarre statement being - Our once beautiful city has been turned into a building site, So the legacy MR.
Anti devolutionist that building site is the biggest retail development Wales has ever seen! Note the like of which did not occur until devolution and the coming of a confident and vibrant Wales and Cardiff. It has and will create tens of thousands of jobs! If that's all you can throw at Rhodri I wouldn’t give up the day job.
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Why has King Morgan planned his departure in the detail he has, seeing the next budget through....
....to the satisfaction of his coalition partners, because he is unable to guarantee to Pernicious Plaid a budget that satisfies their needs.
Some say "good old Rhodri", others speak the truth, "cunning old Rhodri, no friend of democracy".
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Anti devolutionist that building site is the biggest retail development Wales has ever seen! Note the like of which did not occur until devolution and the coming of a confident and vibrant Wales and Cardiff. It has and will create tens of thousands of jobs! If that's all you can throw at Rhodri I wouldn’t give up the day job.
harri, you aren't very good with facts, are you? You're not even good at spouting patriotic jingoism, because you pick on stupid stuff to brag about, don't you?
http://www.retail-week.com/property/shopping-centre-openings-the-end-of-an-era/5005831.article
Aberdeen is two-thirds let by income, but as the bigger scheme it’s Cardiff which is likely to grab the headlines because with only weeks to go, it’s looking like it’s going to open with a very substantial number of unlet units
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Re 24 It must be very difficult being only semi-literate.
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As a Plaid supporter who has had many a scrap with the nastier side of Labour, I have huge amount of respect for Rhodri Morgan. He has spanned massive changes both within his own party and within Welsh politics, yet has always managed to hold his own party together and hold respect within the wider electorate.
His successor will face financial challenges he was never exposed to and I accept that under his leadership, huge opportunities were missed. Yet, we have only had devolution for 10 years and for almost all of that time, he has carried the flag for Wales.
When he has a paddle next Summer in the shallows of the bay in Mwnt and wonders what difference he really made, I hope that he recognises that he has helped to lay the foudation for the future of our nation, perhaps with a one-legged duck circling him.
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Re 24
mapexx's obsesssion with his macho image reaches new, surreal heights!!!
What the hell is the meaning of "a real man's insult"??!! Something to do with bullying no doubt.
Au revoir!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
15
Yet another mindless piece of mpersonal abuse.
It was the BBC that put in the tag. I have not feeling one way or another about the Celtic side of this.
Still, the false accusation was to be expected.
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Gwyrangon at # 13. you say:
people who oppose the Assembly having more powers, or being in existence at all, criticising the Assembly for not doing enough, for just 'tinkering'. You can't have it both ways.
You miss the fundamental point; The Assembly has failed to properly administer the devolved powers it does have, just about every thing it has touched is a mess.
It has shown itself to be crassly incompetent, done nothing to improve the life for the majority in Wales, and is divisive.
The AM's, in the main, lack vision and ability.
Its a mess we should scrap it and start again.
After all if this was a management team in a company, you would sack them - not give more power and responsibility.
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31 referred to 24 & 28 - perhaps on the rubust side.
The two postings are pretty regrettable all the same.
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Returnee #33
The two postings are pretty regrettable
But simply responses in kind.
(I didn't refer 31)
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34
I think that is a bit unfair. Mr 'XX' / '55' is quite disproportionate in his responses.
Anyway, on with life.
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Please can the Nationalists and Union haters on this site please answer the following question.
Across Wales each Local Authority has to administer hundreds upon hundreds of short term grants. In education alone there are over 100 different grants LA's have to apply for. This is repeated across all departments within Local Government. Also there are over 40 different organisations receiving funding to chase people called NEETS (not in education and employment)
Is spending millions on this mountain of administrators the best way of using tax payers money in such poor economic times or would it be better to give the money directly to LA's to disseminate, where priority can be given to local needs. Remember we are paying £400 million a year on Administrators alone in WAG.
Finally, it is not surprising to see that the separatists speak fondly of Rhodri after all he has led the Labour Party in Wales to their most unpopular standing in over 100 years. A legacy to be proud of for a closet NAT.
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http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2009/08/04/labour-s-core-vote-no-longer-big-enough-says-carwyn-jones-91466-24307682/
On the Welsh language, he will warn: “Across much of the south, Welsh is being used by younger generations to communicate with teachers and parents but not with each other. Within two generations this will lead to a situation where Welsh is a school language but nothing else.”
Working to regenerate Welsh- speaking communities, he believes, is a key method of increasing confidence in the language.
Another scary language obsessed enforcer of Welsh, what a suitable replacement for wretched Rhodri? Proper Welsh, isn't he? Born to rule see, it would be nice for the sake of fair play, if he could tell us how Llafur intends to curtail children speaking English to each other? Scary bloke, he seems to be spending time with his mate John Griffiths, the Newport AM who wants Welsh lessons intensified in Monmouthshire's English medium schools.
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Re 37
You're a very, very strange person Jack. Are you able to sleep at night? Are those little green men still a problem...?
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Fair does, Carwyn is at least in yer face and honest, he's warning us about our offspring having the temerity of speaking English to each other!! Vote for Labour in this benighted region, and Carwyn types are what you get, self indulgent language bully boys.
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