Fore!
You get the feeling the Albert Matthews suite in the pine clad lodge of the Celtic Manor has never before been the scene of a speech that says "Let Labour be Labour." You wonder what the response would be on the immaculate greens outside, or amongst those who've in the past stood there to celebrate winning the "Celtic Fourball" or "The Golden Balls" to a suggestion that the Ryder Cup in 2011 should be used as a shop window to show case social policy. They may heed the call to arms and battle for "a proper living wage for contract workers." They may not.
Huw Lewis, the leadership contender who say the two biggest unions plump for his two opponents over the weekend, hopes ordinary Labour members will like what they hear.
He launched his manifesto this morning and sounded more than one warning.
Labour has gone backwards in three elections now. Fact.
Now comes the metaphor and Huw Lewis' take on why.
When you hit rough water he said, "more of the same" - and yes, take that as a reference to his opponents, Mr Jones perhaps more so than Mrs Hart in this instance - simply means drifting and plunging over the edge: "change must come."
And if change is to come, the party - no, the movement - must be listened to. He didn't use the words 'union stitch-up' but I did and here was his response in full:
"I've got great faith in the Labour movement as a whole. The Labour movement is more than the Labour Party. One of the things that I'm trying to promote through this campaign is a proper conversation beween the wings of the movement. I just hope the lines of communication stay open. We are in tough times and unless the movement holds together over the next few years we'll pay the price for that. So I want to see open doors and open minds. That's all I'm asking".
He's referring to this story that makes the front page of the Western Mail. His opponents - and on this occasion take it as a reference to Mrs Hart more so than Mr Jones - might suggest that what he's really referring to is the fact that the biggest unions have not given him their support.
On Saturday the political leadership of Unite voted 25 for Edwina Hart, 3 for Carwyn Jones, 0 for Huw Lewis. Mrs Hart also has the support of the leaders of Community and the Communication Workers Unions. Unison members are being encouraged to support Carwyn Jones.
Huw Lewis has the support of the Co-operative party. He must appeal to the grassroots, to the individual members or he loses.
If the block vote still existed, Mrs Hart would be laughing. It doesn't. It's up to members whether and how they vote. Not even the most influential leader of the tailor and garment makers union should be able to stitch this one up.
But everyone, clearly, is not convinced.
I'm Betsan Powys, BBC Wales' political editor. I'll be blogging the inside track on 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~09~RS~)
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Hello!
Am trying my bestest to follow events back home (am living up in Scotland), so following the blogs with interest. I am a bit in the dark though regarding the 'mechanics' of the voting process for the new labour leader in Wales, and would like to know a bit more. Is there a website (or past blog I missed) that provides info for dummies like me on what the voting process entails? e.g. who will get to vote, any block votes (saw them mentioned in the article somewhere)...do away votes count double even? etc., or any other arcane set-ups that are in existence.
Cheers!
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There you go sideshow:
http://sluggerotoole.com/index.php/weblog/comments/come-may-2010-the-most-important-labour-politician-in-britain-will-be/
No block votes
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Bingo!
Cheers Dewi_H, just the job - handy bit of background to complement events unfolding over the next 6 weeks or so...
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Betsan. The same Executive stitch up we saw with the coalition vote nothings changed. Cardiff wins Wales loses. But is it a recipe for meltdown?
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Betsan – I’ll say what you and every other Welsh political journalist is thinking but not saying – Edwina Hart would be a nightmare choice for leader of the Welsh Labour party.
Why? You know all too well.
Like most of us with even half a brain, I’m as suspicious of the Press as anyone.
You often omit to tell the whole truth, are biased towards your paymasters or toe the Establishment line, which is usually a reactionary one.
Let’s face it, it’s often all three.
Most of us have been involved with a news story which is not actually reported ‘as it happens’; license is often taken and the knitting needles come out to embellish the narrative.
But here’s the big ‘but’; at the end of the day, you represent us, the people.
Your job is to inform us and hold the politicians to account on our behalf.
So when a politician ignores you, most of us think that person is also ignoring us.
We expect our politicians to get in the game and take on the counter arguments proposed, often by you, and if they can’t, it makes us think they’re either not good enough or they’ve got something to hide.
History has often shown us there’s a correlation between the two.
Edwina Hart chooses to ignore the press in a way that’s sometimes comical.
She reminds me of the character of Major Major from Catch 22 – if you recall, when he’s in he’s out and when he’s out…well, you get my drift.
But as First Minister, her avoidance of the Press and inability to publicly back up her arguments won’t be funny, it will simply reinforce the view around Wales that the Labour party and this Labour administration is simply too arrogant to listen and reason, that they’ve been in power too long and have become too complacent.
I’ve heard stories about her attitudes – that she has a ‘combative personality’ and is ‘single minded and determined’.
Others might simply call her a bully who doesn’t like it when she can’t get her own way.
Well, the message to Ms Hart is this – we’ve had enough of your type of politician, if we ever appreciated it in the first place. If you are really serious about this job, let’s see you put up the arguments and engage with the Press and the people.
Because it’s not her friends in the Unions she should be persuading, it’s the strangers in the street.
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5.Edwina has been a plant to take the left wing vote away from Huw Lewis
as anyone who wants to see can see.There is no expectancy for her to win
as the whole party machine is behind Carwyn and has been since Rhodri
announced his planned retirement. Paul Murphy and Don Touhig have been thrown in to her campaign to give the coronation of Carwyn legitimacy and keep the left on side.Huw with his more traditional Labour appeal(centre left)would stimulate the older Labour voter but would be seen as old fashioned by these 'ponsy' party activists who don't know what a socialist is and have been brought up in a cushy pampered welfare state.
I agree with you the press and Cardiff based Welsh Media have played their part in always describing Carwyn in the positive.The stakes for
Labour are high as it's not activists that win elections it's voters.
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re 6 . Interesting analysis.
Can anyone answer this question: Despite being a Rhodri Morgan M4
clone, what has Carwyn Jones actually achieved by way of
legislature ?. I'm a nationalist , so I'd prefer a Welsh-speaking
prime minister, but Carwyn Jones seems to have been in the cabinet forever and a day without doing much . He's Prince Charles to Rhodi's queen , as it were .
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7.Well he is a welsh speaker,he was a Plaid,he went to Aber Uni,his father was a lecturers union negotiator,he is a barrister,he held the
Environment port folio and as such spent most of his time accompanying
Rhodri around Wales but your quite right he hasn't done much of note.
He will however keep the wealth in Cardiff which holds him in good stead
with the Cardiff Establishment but I don't think he will ever make Prime Minister. From your political point of view he would be a better Plaid option for First Minister than Ieuan Wyn Jones.
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I don't understand the logic in denying Huw Lewis here access to trades union members. Fair play would dictate that all candidates should be able to canvass for votes.
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9. 'Fair play' is not in the language of Rhodri's regime and believe me
it's still Rhodri's regime but it could lose them even more votes at the next general election.
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I actually reckon Edwina is favourite.
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11. Wishful thinking from a nationalist perhaps.
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12 FWIW, I think that Carwyn has the presence to be FM but is lacking in policy. Edwina has a good manifesto but would be a bad advert for the Assembly (media unfriendly and too strident). Huw has good policies but has no friends, particularly within potential coalition partners.
But personally I dont care which one gets the job.
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13. Why bother to comment then.Blackhead. This by the way is an english blog it's a wonder our moderators haven't reacted. They were quick enough
to reprimand me when I used polish phrases but that's the BBC for you
one law for NATS and one law for the rest of us.
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Reign it in gnatswatter, you can't moderate a name. This blogs going well so let's keep the insults out of it.
I personally couldn't care about the next labour leader. I'm a big fan of the increasing number of independents being elected with their communitiesat the heart of why they're standing. It's a break from the stale party politics of the UK and might just offer some fresh ideas or lead to the formation of modern and relevant "parties" in Wales.
Labour's done at the G.E. I think.
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Re 14
It is indeed an English language blog. That's why I don't understand your
'polish phrases' - not shiny enough are they?
Are you always in this foul mood, or are you making an exception just for us?
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15. All these 'Plaidi' types say they couldn't care less about the Labour leadership but each one gets a snide remark in.
This is the trait of the nationalist the type that rams it's warped
ideology down everyones throat especially weak old women and frail old men linguistic bullies to the end.
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"This is the trait of the nationalist the type that rams it's warped
ideology down everyones throat especially weak old women and frail old men linguistic bullies to the end."
What??? Where on earth did that come from???
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18. From the doorsteps of Carmarthenshire since 1966.Slips of kids who
should be out enjoying their youth rather than forcing their brand of
nationalism on unsuspecting locals.This is the real face of Plaid child
indoctrination,separation,linguistic domination and extreme pravarication
You don't like being told the truth but it's there for all to see at every election.
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Re 19
Now I get it - thegnatswatter isn't for real. No one can be that odd.
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thegnatswatter:
Just for my edification should kids in schools in Sweden be taught in Swedish? What do you reckon?
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19. Even more interesting. Do go on , please.
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message 21....
The most discenable difference between Wales and Sweden is the fact that the take up of that nasty old English is almost 100%, along side Swedish.
It is NOT forced by legislation, and unwelcomed taxfunding, onto the education system over there. Like other foreign languages here in Wales, and elsewhere, it is an acceptable subject on their educational curricula. It is not subjected to legal pressures backed by legislative persuasion.
Despite the implied meaning in your message, Cymraeg is NOT the major language here in this region, but an almost defunct language, that has been revived, without the consent of those being expected to, in fact actually, paying for it's revival.
Swedish IS the major language of Sweden, being given a close run by English.
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While I have no wish to contribute to your spiritual enlightenment or
comment on the education system of Scandanavia I do find your
question interesting because there are some similarities. For instance
our english/welsh speaking ratio is proportional to the swedish/finnish ratio of northern sweden so a comparison could be made.The main language
in Wales is English with only a minute number speaking welsh and in Sweden the main language Swedish(with English as the main language of business) and Finnish with the same ratio as welsh.I'm not aware of
any finnish medium schools but as the minority language it mihght be
taught as a second language as I suppose would be Lapp.
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"It is NOT forced by legislation, and unwelcomed taxfunding, onto the education system over there"
Yes it is. - it's been compulsory since the 1940s - so is "subject to legal pressure backed by legislative persuausion" Indeed you are precisely incorrect.
"I'm not aware of any finnish medium schools" - I am - 468 classes in 1985.
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message 25....
Typical, point missed again.
The point is, any state education system has the right to decide what languages are to be placed on the curriculum, and understand the following....for the sole purpose of international detente, and commercial interchange.
Please explain to me, and everyone else, how enforcing the Cymraeg into the education system of Wales, beyond it being of use in creating a divided region, and with the ultimate aim of separating Wales from the UK, can be seen to match the parameters of my first paragraph.
This language, of which you are so blatently obnoxious about, has no international value, in either detente, or commerce.
Tell me please do, what is it's value, other than being a personal or political hobby horse, once beyond the unfenced borders of Wales?
Please explain to me how it is that 80 odd percent of Scandinavians, so I am told, can utilise English, to almost 'native British' levels of use, and are to be found conversing and communicationg in English, amongst themselves, and across their national borders, whereas the majority of those, who it is claimed, can speak Cymraeg, often opt for English, in preference to their own so called mother tongue?
How, please tell me can children be 'educated' in a total Ysgol environment, yet immediatley switch to English, once beyond the school premises? Where is the value in wasting educational time, not to mention valuable taxation funding, in such a failed enterprise?
By the way, I did qualify the legal pressuring of the educational aspect of the English language, as under the Swedish and all othyer systems. Perhaps in your hurry to get your invalid points across you overlooked, or missed, that qualification.
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"By the way, I did qualify the legal pressuring of the educational aspect of the English language, as under the Swedish and all othyer systems."
No you didn't you said:
"It is NOT forced by legislation, and unwelcomed taxfunding, onto the education system over there." - That is just a totally false atatement.
As for:
"Please explain to me how it is that 80 odd percent of Scandinavians, so I am told, can utilise English, to almost 'native British' levels of use, and are to be found conversing and communicationg in English, amongst themselves, and across their national borders, whereas the majority of those, who it is claimed, can speak Cymraeg, often opt for English, in preference to their own so called mother tongue?"
Compulsorily English language as part of the curriculum in Sweden might have something to do with your first bit - as for your second bit give me some evidence?
As for "This language, of which you are so blatently obnoxious about.."
What on earth are you ranting about there??
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Further to FiDafydd's post above I have to point out that there are no welsh speakers or pro-welsh language folk on here forcing anything down anyone's neck.
Yet we are constantly defending the language from monoglot english speakers who are calling for its silencing as it's apparently useless.
FACT!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
"Please explain to me, and everyone else, how enforcing the Cymraeg into the education system of Wales, beyond it being of use in creating a divided region, and with the ultimate aim of separating Wales from the UK, can be seen to match the parameters of my first paragraph."
And while I'm at it why should I accept the absurd parameters of your first paragraph?
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PureDrivel #28
Yet we are constantly defending the language from monoglot english speakers who are calling for its silencing as it's apparently useless.
FACT!
Yhat comment is FICTION!
No one is calling for the silencing of the Welsh language.
The debate on these pages is about;
Language legislation which criminalises those who don't meet the demands of the language activists, and compulsory language education.
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message 27.....
'... Like other foreign languages here in Wales, and elsewhere, it is an acceptable subject on their educational curricula. It is not subjected to legal pressures backed by legislative persuasion.....'
as happens to be the case in Wales with Cymraeg.
'.....whereas the majority of those, who it is claimed, can speak Cymraeg, often opt for English, in preference to their own so called mother tongue?....."
Leaving out, or chopping out chunks of my argument is tantamount to attempting to distract and slew that argument.
message 28....
The enforced addition of Cymraeg to the curriculum of ALL schools across Wales, especially in areas where there is little take up of the language, and where it is very often resented, even despised, IS forcing it down peoples necks, and the forcing does not come from the non Cymraeg side of Wales, or are you trying to say it does?.
You people are the ones doing the enforcement, nowadays by legislative methods, and therefore it is OUR right to put you lot on the defensive, So, 'If ya don't lika da heat, git outa da kitchen'.
By the way, we do NOT call for either its demise, or its silencing, just that it be kept in the communities and voices of those who wish to use it.
The trouble with you lot is, you cannot abide the idea that the vast majority in Wales cannot use the language, do not want to, and as things are looking, will never be persuaded to, despite all the LCO's, and other Cardiff Bay generated rules, and such,as put in place.
What you also cannot seem to comprehend is the FACT that beyond a few hundred thousand, if that number even, who may or may not utilise the language on a relatively habitual basis, the potential for its use outside of those little circles wherein the fluent move, there is no call whatsoever for it to be used.
It certainly has no practical use in ordinary commerce, where, across the whole worlds financial bourses, and business forums, the English language appears to be utilised on a regular basis, if not even as the preferred medium of communication.
Why on earth you would wish to try backtracking on that is a complete mystery. All I can say is, I feel the whole process, and exercise, is one of pure deliberation and mischief making, by a few rabid nutters who have nothing better to do, only to create a nice little cushy featherbedded niche for themselves, at taxpayers expense.
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My dear Mapexx,
You are clearly insane...
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"Why on earth you would wish to try backtracking on that is a complete mystery." - I have absolutely no idea what I am backtracking on.
"Leaving out, or chopping out chunks of my argument is tantamount to attempting to distract and slew that argument"
I said English teaching was compulsory in Swedish Schools, enforced by legistlation - no attempt to sidtract or slew at all. You were just wrong when you said there was no legal pressures. Why not just accept that and try and argue with logic rather than inane insulting ramblings -"'If ya don't lika da heat, git outa da kitchen'. I'll reply to your lunatic insults all day - I really don't like bullies....
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message 30....
you asked...
....And while I'm at it why should I accept the absurd parameters of your first paragraph?...
Pleased do elucidate me then as to what other reasons are there for a state to fund the education of their student body in foreign languages.
Surely you cannot even begin to imagine they do so for the same reason this menage in the Bay is funding Cymraeg?
As I accurately stated, states place foreign languages on their curricula for the express reasons given, to facilitate international communication, otherwise known in modern times as, detente, and to facilitate accuracy in commercial interchange. AND FOR NO OTHER REASONS.
Which, as I also stated, bears no relationship to what is happening here in the Welsh educational system.
A: there is virtually no need for international accord in the language, it is hardly heard of beyond Wales, and ...
B: commercially it has no worth whatsoever; even here in Wales, as far as Welsh business and industry is concerned.
Now argue with that if you can.
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"The point is, any state education system has the right to decide what languages are to be placed on the curriculum, and understand the following....for the sole purpose of international detente, and commercial interchange."
That's your first paragraph - as you appear to be the judge of the rights of state education systems i'm probably not worthy of reply but I will anyway...perhaps, just perhaps an educational system should encourage appreciation of others cultures.
As a matter of fact Mappex I've not met a product of a school in Wales who does not speak English.
But to the point I was actually disputing with you do you accept that English has been taught compulsorily in Swedish schools since the 40s?
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Re 35
This is all becoming tedious, and yet again the Brit nats have taken it away from Betsan's opening remarks. It is also impossible to debate with some people because they just cannot accept that they could possibly be wrong about anything, as their intellect, apparently, is far superior to anyone else's!
Strange, then, that this intellect could give something like:
"As I accurately stated, states place foreign languages on their curricula for the express reasons given, to facilitate international communication, otherwise known in modern times as, detente, and to facilitate accuracy in commercial interchange. AND FOR NO OTHER REASONS."
'NO OTHER REASONS' seems to leave very little room for anything else. Tough, then, for those people who'd like to read Goethe or Pablo Nerruda or Maupassant!
You finish with your usual macho style:
"Now argue with that if you can."
I just have, and you were wrong again...
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message 34....
The point was, not that there was no legislation in place, but that it was a part and parcel of the general educational parameters of modern education, not, as in Wales, where it has been deliberately placed onto the school curriculum as a matter of nationalist policy.
By extension, as a means to indoctrinate the children of Wales into accepting a modicum of nationalism, in the hope that potentially they will in the future all come to believe that to have Wales hived off from it's neighbour will be the natural progression to the future of the region cum nation.
By no stretch of the imagination can the teaching of Swedish in Swedish schools be determined along the same lines.
Nor, for that matter, can the teaching of ANY foreign languages, which are being taught under the terms I set out in a prior message, be thought of as indoctrinaire policy.
Unless of course, you deem it indoctrination to have kids able to speak and conduct business across international borders, once they enter the world of work, and social intercourse, with their recently gained language skills..
By which, I do mean that they will be unfettered in their options, unlike the kids of Wales, who will be forced into a state of almost linguistic incest, having no one to turn to in their linguistic state, but others who can only converse within Wales itself, to the exclusion of the rest of the world.
Not a very edifying prospect for the Welsh kinder, and youth, I am sorry to say.
You are 'backtracking' on the overt nature of English as a means of open and general communication, in expecting Wales to become a nation,(if it ever comes to that), where to prosper, one is required to be fluent in a language that is about as much use outside of Wales, as a broken leg to a downhill skier.
At least the skiers leg will hopefully mend, but how does one set about mending a broken education system.
So far the only insults on this blog have come from Fi Fi and yourself with a few other slanted comments form others who have apparently been reluctant to follow your normal track. I have offered you no insults whatsoever, but it is apparent you are incapable of taking the sharpness of tongue( in written form) I have used in corresponding with you, hence your own remarks such as calling me a bully.
The comment to which you referred was just a bit of nonsense, an attempt at levity, but I will keep on forgetting you lot have had your humour genes removed, hence your thin skins.
Your pal has been moderated for attempting to psychoanalyse me, which is another aspect of making insulting commentary.
As for responding to my messages, please do carry on, but do make some attempt to be rational, and respond in kind, and constructively, not with scurrilous remarks, and other bits of nastiness, if you don't mind.
Then we shall get on famously.
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message 37....
Had the discussion been about individual writers then you may have had a valid reason to comment, it wasn't, it was about the difference seenj between Dewi and I in the legal matter of education compulsion in Wales and Sweden. Also, I did mention 'social intercourse' which, as you seem to be unaware, includes the appreciation of exotic writers, and their works and extends in to all m,anner of cultural aspects of foreign cultural matters.
You therefore, were yourself wrong, and entering by saying, 'I just have' you have wrong footed yourself, yet again.
So if you have nothing constructive to add to that, please be good enough to keep your snout out.
Dewi, we were debating language, not culture, as I recall.
If you wish to skid off track and go for culture, then by all means give me your argument.
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Re 38, 39
So now we know who ran to the mods - and it's 'us' with the thin skins, eh!! Incredible.
By the way, there is a name for someone who claims that he never throws insults, but who has your track record. Still, I don't suppose Pinochio minds too much about your general behaviour.
And unless you become the first person in the history of the world to say that literature is detente, then you are wrong! And, so, education is about more than commerce and simple communication. It is about far more than that. It therefore follows that languages - all languages - have a deep intrinsic value.
But I don't expect you to understand that.
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What a wonderful debate the Labour party leadership is creating.
So diverse, so incisive, so illuminating .Ever point a salient one. If only the three contenders had our powers of wit and persuasion, eh ?
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Before I got sidetracked I raised Sweden because all school leavers there seem to be perfectly fluent in Swedish and English. In Wales we should try for the same - all school leavers being fluent in Welsh and English.
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message 42...
Whilst I can agree that there is a degree of practicality in your notion of all school kids leaving school fluent in two languages, your idea is lacking in the very thing you make issue over, regarding the Swedish/English conjoint capability of the school leavers in Sweden.
Here in the region we live in, the regional language is not Cymraeg but English. In Sweden the national language is Swedish.
Here in this region there is virtually no demand for Cymraeg from the overwhelming bulk of the population, who, in common with the rest of the UK, see learning a foreign language, at the best of times, as a burden rather than an onus.
Whereas in Sweden, as you have acknowledged, the take up of English appears to be taken as that onus, rather than a burden.
They obviously realise that, since WW2 at least, (1940 according to you) there is a added value to their international relationships by having the ability for as many as possible learning, and using, English, internationally recognised as the 'lingua Franca' of the whole world. A rather contradictory term I know, but well used in etymological circles.
But to return to your comment that all should leave school fluent in Cymraeg and English. As I stated previously, Cymraeg is not very much use to anyone once they leave school or the region they live in, at least for the purposes of trade and social communications, which IS covered by the term 'detente' (French for relaxation, with social implications. That for the benefit of a certain ignoramus who perpetually stalks my messages on this blog).
Therefore, although a second language may be desirable, I would place Cymraeg well down the list of such, far below any other language, such as French, German, Chinese, Russian, even Urdu and Arabic, considering the number of immigrants who have arrived here, when compared to the minuscule numbers who can actually, and truthfully, say they are fully fluent in Cymraeg.
There may well be a residual number who have clung onto that language, but to make issue of it in the manner of expecting the whole of Wales to take it up in the face of, and despite the amount of English being utilised across the world, is to put it bluntly, whistling in the wind,
The plea is lost in the subversive noise made all around, and the language subsumed in the mass of English, utilised in everyday communications across Wales itself.
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Cymraeg, having recently helped a local retired Cymraeg teacher, of a Cymraeg family, his pronouncement, in general Welsh medium education is a waste of money, the only children to benefit are those from families whose first and everyday language is Cymraeg, as for example in Gwynedd, the balance of Welsh medium education, in his opinion, is political.
I agree with you mapexx, Cymraeg is as useful as a paper sail in a storm.
Morning Betsan, still no word from you with my polite request for information about the school trip to Newport with Tomorrow's Wales, I am putting the question to the Petitions Committee, maybe they can get the answers.
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Re 44
Oh, yes, that old warhorse - anecdotal evidence!!
Also,
"I agree with you mapexx, Cymraeg is as useful as a paper sail in a storm."
- so, no prejudice or condescension then! True to your word!!
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Mapexx,
I presume I am that ignoramous, well let me make your weak minded day.
You're area suggesting that learning certain foreign languages because of the number of immigrants arriving here.
That is all well and good, but my personal belief, and that of a great many is that THEY should learn the language of the realm as you phrase, which is English.
Do you not think? I can't imagine me turning up in Pakistan, France, Nigeria and expecting to be spoken to in English. It's just ridiculous.
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message 46...
First out of the way,...no, I was not referring to you, as I do not consider you to be a stalking horse, just an argumentative person.
To answer you otherwise, I did not say you should learn any particular language, what I did say was, considering the numbers who have arrived here from exotic locations, money may well be better spent on teaching one or more of those languages. Prior to which I stated that far from benefitting the Welsh to learn Cymraeg, other European, and world important languages should be pressed for first. Those would at thye vfery least allow people to communicate across national; borders.
What the heck do you think the benefit will be to learn Cymraeg when beyond a few Welsh clubs and associations, coupled to Patagonia, there is no one to communicate with, outside of this region.
Your other comment re the incomers learning either of the languages of Wales, but particularly English, is a valid point I totally agree with.
Far beyond the divisivness that Cymraeg is, and has been, generating in this region, the fact that incomers are, more or less, refusing to take on the major language of the UK, stokes up the potential for cross cultural animosity, couple that to the religion they adhere to, and that potential extends into possible open civil disturbance, with all that implies.
At the very least, we do not have that possible scenario to deal with amongst our own population.
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PS to the last one...
I forgot to comment on your last sntence, and it's 'sting in the tail'..
It is not ridiculous, as I have been to some of those locations, and elsewhere, including Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Germany, Italy, Luxembourg, Holland, Portugal,Switzerland, Spain, and worked with, or had working under me, expatriot labour from the USA, Canada, Chad, Nigeria, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, India, Thailand, Somalia, Ethiopia, Yemen, Jordan, Lebanon, Palestine, Algeria, Morrocco, Libya, Israel, China, Brazil, Colombia, Sudan, Eritrea, Korea, Japan, and many, many, more, and ALL communications were in ENGLISH.
So, far from being ridiculous, it is a fact of life.
Strangely though, apart from a minute number, I have never had much to do with people speaking Cymraeg, in my own, and other areas of Wales, where, to all intents and purposes, everyone speaks English too.
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#45 well FiDafydd you are very wrong ....
.... when you write Oh, yes, that old warhorse - anecdotal evidence!! as if it is of no value.
It was an interesting conversation that you were not present at, shame, it started when I asked the gentleman ....
"How would you improve Welsh language education"
.... the rest is history, disparaged by yourself, but when I heard his words I was surprised.
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Re 49
I don't doubt that the conversation happened, just that one opinion doesn't prove anything.
It would be interesting to know if you would have blogged with such vigour had his opinion been the complete opposite, and that he believed that more teaching of Welsh is what is necessary. I'm pretty sure that you could find those dissenting voices!!
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#50 FiDafydd, I haven't much time this afternoon, but if you reflect on the question I asked ....
.... "How would you improve Welsh language education"
.... I was expecting an answer that gave a positive way forward; he didn't believe there is a political will to expand Welsh language training in the English medium schools, in addition, because of his experiences is critical of Welsh medium education.
I repeat from above, He is of the opinion that Welsh medium education should only benefits those from families whose first and everyday language is Cymraeg, as for example in Gwynedd, the balance of Welsh medium education, in his opinion, is political.
It was my intention to go back to an earlier thread, discussion with Dewi with ideas for better provision of language teaching.
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