And then there were three ...
Take a look, said a text message, at the Whois domain name search engine. Type in Carwyn4Labour.com
I did and found the domain name was registered to Carwyn Jones, National Assembly, Cardiff, Wales, CF99 1NA.
It was created on September 11th 2009.
Hm, said the text. "It's registered to his National Assembly for Wales office. I wonder if that's against assembly and electoral rules?"
Isn't it interesting that the somewhat toxic mix of leadership campaigns and electoral rules are already being raised in some quarters? The prototype, of course, was Hain4Labour - the campaign website of the Neath MP's ill-fated bid for the deputy leadership of the Labour party.
But let's face it an online presence is going to be vital for any serious candidate to take on Rhodri Morgan's job. So how interesting that Edwina4Labour.com was created and registered 16th September 2009 - yesterday. Back to Whois. The administrative contact is Mark Ronconi of Business Web Marketing of Upper Killay in Swansea.
What do we glean from this? Either that Edwina Hart is on the verge of launching her leadership campaign or that a well-meaning supporter wants to make sure the ducks - remember them - are in line, just in case.
In case you were wondering, no sign yet of a Huw4Labour.com or a Jane4Labour.com.
I'm Betsan Powys, BBC Wales' political editor. I'll be blogging the inside track on 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~11~RS~)
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I would be surprised if the registered address is of vital importance I just hope the AMs are not picking our pockets for the hosting and web design fees.
"toxic" is an interesting adjective.
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How about *****4Wales.com?
We've had enough of politicians, especially Labour politicians, all out for what they can get.
Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.
Twelve years of monumentally disastrous Labour government followed eighteen years of disastrous Tory government, as far as Wales is concerned. It seems that we're in for another lengthy period of disastrous Tory government, led by a wealthy Eton-educated Tory toff.
Until Wales is governed by people who live here, and who care for our country and its people, nothing will change, Wales will remain a poor country in perpetuity.
The parties these people support do make a difference. Labour, Conservatives and LibDems will never put Wales first. Their primary interest will always lie in 'middle England', whose support they must get if they are ever to govern the UK. Wales will always lose out under such a system.
Self-determination is the only positive hope for our country. The Scots are waking up to that reality, and its already within their grasp. We are just as capable, if we have the confidence to take our own destiny in hand.
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The above (number 2) is a rather obvious and amateurish party political broadcast by Bryn Teilo, on behalf of...you've guessed it...Plaid Cymru.
If someone came on here and pulled the same stunt for Labour/Conservative/Lib-Dems/UKIP, the Plaidies would be pressing the complaints button like there was no tomorrow.
Then why is it allowed for Plaid, with less Welsh votes than most of the above parties? The fact that it happens quite regularly (but only on behalf of Plaid Cymru) and no other parties, does rather point to there being an organized campaign going on.
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Noah .....
I read it as someone that regularly pontificate about the faults of something without being able to articulate an original thought of their own about how to solve it.
No substance I'm afraid.
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#4
"Noah .....
I read it as someone that regularly pontificate about the faults of something without being able to articulate an original thought of their own about how to solve it.
No substance I'm afraid."
I thought you were talking about Noah, not to him.
His only answer is to abolish the Assembly, yours is more Tory misery for the three million people who live in Wales.
I'd abolish the Assembly tomorrow, and replace it with a sovereign Parliament elected by the people of Wales, in an election where all the votes counted, where all parties would be represented proportionately. We'd have a Welsh non-executive President, and a Prime Minister. No English queen, no unelected second chamber full of aristocrats, old political hacks, or those who greased the palms of the party leaders.
The supporters of the doomed Labour party don't even bother to come on here, either because they don't exist, or because they know that they have no future.
If you bothered to read my comments, then you would be well aware that I slate Plaid for its shortcomings all too often. I'm not a stooge for that party. I care for my country and I want it to have a future. My belief in self-determination may not be an 'original' thought, but it does have substance. If it is ever realised, then Wales will be a better place for us all to live in - no nuclear weapons, no large armed forces, no imperialistic wars, no Westminster corruption or incompetent foreign politicians. No national identity register. A democratic state with no patronage. What you and Noah offer us is more of the same misery we've endured as a people and as a nation for centuries.
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I'm very much in agreement with Bryn on this. It's a bit rich the inculcators of True Wales moaning that Bryn has strayed somewhat off topic when all they ever do on this thread is digress to decry the fact that Welsh language speakers now have equal rights to use their mothertongue when communicating with officialdom. ...Let's face it; it's a slow week if all there is to report are speculations on the distant prospects of a leadership race in Welsh Labour.
For all True Wales's digressions into scare-mongering, if you ask me the only slippery slope to worry about is the risk of having to suffer the status quo forever, for Wales to remain trapped in both the poverty & despair brought about by Westminster's moral bankruptcy, and utter political stagnation in the centre ground and in an totally moribund constitution too - let's face it, the United Kingdom isn't going to remain united or a kingdom forever.
I've come to support Plaid relatively lately - and peculiarly, nothing brought me to support it more than seeing the nay-sayers belittle Wales & its language/culture and demoralise those who dare to have faith in Wales' prospects through self-government on such fora as these. I believe in Wales - I only wish Wales believed in Wales too!
The nay-sayers band terms like "separatist" about, when there is no such thing being proposed, nor even possible in the modern age - Plaid revised their original goals for "Dominion Status" for Wales for "Self-Government within the EEC/EU" when Britain joined the EEC/EU. Our borders would be as porous as they ever were; they'd just far more legally and possibly even culturally significant than they are today - much to Wales' benefit.
On the notion of independence, even Adam Price talks of that being at least a 20-year project for Plaid on his GallCymru website. In such a context, having faith in Wales is applied specifically to the question of whether it can, by a party like Plaid Cymru, be raised onto its feet economically so that it can afford independence on such a long-term timescale. I also believe that could be possible, especially given the fact that Plaid's ethos of Decentralist (Community) Socialism offers an instrument of surgical precision with which to repair Wales' communities to new, economic health. But it wouldn't be possible if we permit the unionist parties to rule Wales - it's simply not in their interests for Wales to ever even be able to afford independence.
As for slippery slopes, the Tories would have said the every move towards the democracy we enjoy today was a slippery slope - one which disempowered a white, male, land-owning elite and empowered the people every step of the way. When greater democracy is the prize, I say let's ride the slippery slope - it offers every bit of the invigoration Wales needs!
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I find myself disagreeing with Bryn on just one tiny point; it's not a "Parliament" that we need, but a "Senate" - the same thing entirely but in name.
Glyndŵr's precedent at Machynlleth was a "Senedd" because that Latinate word's existence in Welsh precluded any need for such an ancient (Romano-British) language as Welsh to absorb an equivalent for the English (via Vulgar Latin & Norman-French) word; "Parliament." A more etymologically precise translation of Senedd (clearly derived from Latin Senatus) would be Senate.
Personally, I find a certain poetry in a nation with Romano-British roots having a senate, rather than a parliament, especially when England's claims to be the mother of parliaments - it's certainly not the mother of senates. Wales is an older nation than England, and an older term than one derived from mere Vulgar Latin is more fitting.
I think all this parley of a Welsh Parliament is based on the fact that that's what Scotland currently have, and what those pro-self-government currently covet. (But parliament is a fitting word for Scotland, while that's what theirs was always called, being Scots English speaking, and that the Scots/Gaels were never part of the Roman empire like the Cambro-Britons were.)
The notion of a Senedd Cymru/Welsh Senate was also the original paradigm in the historical campaigns of both Plaid Cymru and movements like Undeb Cymru Fydd. As such it was also the recommended title for the 100-member, unicameral assembly proposed in the 1973 Kilbrandon Commission. One can assemble or parley anywhere, thus one can have an assembly or parliament anywhere - but one cannot spontaneously raise a senate - like Rome, it wasn't to be built in a day. A Senedd Cymru or Welsh Senate is nothing less than the culmination of a long history towards the construction of such an auspicious institution.
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rhywun-arall writes "let's ride the slippery slope - it offers every bit of the invigoration Wales needs!" In your dreams.
To put the record straight .....
It is Plaid Cymru that is opposed, not Wales, the Welsh or the aspirations of people; when you write independence, even Adam Price talks of that being at least a 20-year project for Plaid, it doesn't matter whether the "Alma mater" ("nourishing mother") of "Welsh sunderers" speaks of a hundred years, 90% do not want his separatist ideas.
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And only 20% want to roll back devolution to pre 1997 days... so does that make your views invalid?
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Then 90% of Wales won't have examined their options properly, because it's really only the 10% who're "I'm alright Jack" Tories who don't want it - for that REAL 90% it's a SLIPPERY SLOPE TO FREEDOM FROM INVIDIOUS, TORY INTERFERENCE FOREVER MORE!
Let's face it, you only live out your remaining days on this message board like marooned dodos because where political influence is concerned - it's your last island of hope!
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#10 illogical as ever, my comments relate to Plaid, it chums, and its plans.
#10 you are now shouting, your insults irrelevant. I suggest you read today's article in The Times entitled NHS reform is safest with the Tories, on-line at " http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6838961.ece ".
The future is consensus politics of the centre, you on the other hand are quite welcome to sit on the very far left with your political friends, the centre will look after you and yours, no-matter what insults you hurl. Democracy wins every time.
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Message 6...
The extract below is partially correct, in that some who live in this region have what they claim to be a 'mother tongue'.
"....I'm very much in agreement with Bryn on this. It's a bit rich the inculcators of True Wales moaning that Bryn has strayed somewhat off topic when all they ever do on this thread is digress to decry the fact that Welsh language speakers now have equal rights to use their mothertongue when communicating with officialdom. ...."
That said, it is not 'equality' in the use, by whomsoever, that those who oppose 'digress' from the policy of equality, but those that demand, not just equality, but that the overwhelming majority be forced to accept the language by the indoctrinaire policies being put in place via the WAG/ Assembly.
You are entitled to have your opted for language, but do not, at taxpayers expense, attempt to turn a majority English speaking Wales into a Cymraeg speaking enclave, by enforcing your agenda onto our school children, and the rest of us, by means of your methods of indoctrinating them, and us, to believe the language is THEIR or OUR 'mother tongue', when it is nothing of the sort.
As for the rest of your message, some has a tad of common sense, most is the usual hyperbole and sob story of how Wales is being hard done by.
Get it into your head, Wales is no more hard done by than any other region of the UK, most of which also have some sort of regional 'culture', if not a language to use as a prop, for what is in truth hardly visible at street level.
Unless of course you can fully demonstrate that I am wrong in my assessment, by giving provable examples of what, and where, this 'culture' can be found, anywhere in Wales in the everyday environment.
As I understand 'culture', it is something that can be seen all around, at any time of the year, not just on an occasional Maes, and that bears little relationship to the lives of the vast majority, who just happen to follow the normal sort of cultural existence followed by the other 60 millions in the UK. Ethnic immigrants maybe excepted, for the sake of the argument.
You, and others consistently, and erroneously call Wales a Nation, it has NEVER been such, and a gathering of a few tribal groups some half a millennia ago calling itself a 'senned' can hardly be a model for a modern establishment of a separated nation state.
The world has moved on, and my suggestion to you and your fellows in this, is to move on likewise, not rely on emotive calls for a return to some far off period which, in truth, never was fact anyway.
Reading a few chapters from a suspect and debatable history, is not a practical means to an end. Nor can it be the ideal for a nation state to base it's future viability on.
This modern world, with it's instant means of communications, it's centralized funding procedures, and general taxation policies, has no room for hived off bits of the present geographical establishment.
You may wish for the moon, but you will not get it, nor will you get this isolation you so passionately call for.
... For the simple reason, you will need the consent of the total population of, not only Wales, but the UK, to create it. That I am afraid will not be forthcoming, as time will without doubt prove to you.
I will concede, that if the rest of the UK gets much more of the gimme gimme gimme, regime demonstrated this week by the Assembly, it may well be glad to have Wales hived off, if only to save itself being partially bankrupted further to what it is at the present. That would save some 10 or 11 billions for the English taxpaying public I can assure you.
It is for that, if for no other reason, that Wales may well find itself floating away.
But not once the majority begin to realise where they are being herded towards. Then I think you will find all this emotive rubbish about nationhood and language supremacy, will be pushed to the side,if not eradicated, to be replaced by realism.
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#2 - Bryn_Teilo & rhywun-arall 6 & 7 - I couldn't agree with you more. The interesting thing about this leadership election is that it could be the most important one for Labour and possibly for Wales in a long time. For the Labour party to survive as the main party of Wales they will have to change their tack - they will have to become truly the Labour Party of Wales, which means embracing a different political and cultural identity, a more Welsh identity. If they don't then I can't see them remaining a superpower in Welsh politics any more, just one of three or four main parties.
The choice for the party is to follow the Kinnock route or the SO Davies route - to survive they have to adapt, they have to change and wave goodbye to old British labour and hello to a new Welsh one. If not they will not survive as a major force.
No-assembley #3 & Stonemason 4 - bit rich coming from you to complain about party politics when you regularly peddle party lines of the Tory and/or UKIP and even provide links to speeches and sites sponsored by the Unionist maffia. But I do like the term 'sunderers', very New-Labour that.
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Maybe it's just a sign that the person who ran Hain's ill fated attempt is the same person who is running Carwyn's campaign. Considering that Leighton Andrews has now been appointed as Carwyn's campaign manager, and that the email address comes from within the Assembly, I would say that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree
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Re #11 by TheStonemason:-
I quite agree that the future of politics lies in centre ground consensus, but Wales' centre ground is considerably to the left of England's and so long as that FACT endures, it poses the greatest argument in favour of Welsh self-government... (Which is somewhat why the Arch-Tories like yourself on here are blogging for their political lives.)
Re #12 by mappex55:-
It's difficult to argue with someone whose vision of history is as contorted as that of any holocaust denier, who misquotes and misrepresents arguments to make a point. Did I ever say Welsh was the "mothertongue" of all the Welsh people? No.
The reason as to why children in Wales learn Welsh, is because if they're Welsh at all, it is an ancestral heritage language, (please don't make me repost census data etc. proving that just 100 years ago 50% of the population spoke the language, and that 200 years ago more like 80%+ of the population did so - the circumstances in which Wales LOST its language are political & economic and very much the result of bigoted, philistine and ultimately ethnocidal "British" notions during the height of colonialism, and is utterly tragic because it divorced the Welsh people from a vast treasure-trove of literature and song dating back to the 6th Century AD. Like destruction caused by any act of vandalism, it is fair to seek to repair the damage.
Beyond reasons of heritage and identity, lies THE REAL ARGUMENT, which is that fluency in Welsh presents the children of Wales with new advantages on the Welsh job market because although the Welsh Language Act of 93 only granted EQUALITY of status to Welsh, it made the employment of those able to speak it critical to the delivery of the newly required bilingual public-sector service - which conveyed upon Welsh speakers a certain advantage. To deny any Anglo-Welsh children the opportunity to learn Welsh in such a climate would prevent them to equal access to any Welsh job (since many now require Welsh speakership).
i.e. For the purposes of EQUALITY, both to the rights of language usership by Welsh speakers, and to rights of access to all sectors of the Welsh job market (some of which are catering to those rights), Welsh needs to be taught to the whole population of Wales.
As long as Wales remains a liberal democracy - this policy will never be sundered despite the best efforts of an ignorant, philistine and illiberal few. The implementation of the Welsh Language Act of 93 took place just one year after the UK ratified its commitment to the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages (ECRML) - as long as the UK and Wales remains in the EU, this aspect of language rights will remain intact.
Seeking to secure the equal rights of a minority is not an act of supremacy any more than granting equality of rights to ethnic minorities, women, people of various sexual orientations or religious beliefs creates any kind of supremacy - other than the supremacy of tolerance and fairness over unabashed bigotry.
Thankfully time cleanses society of bigotry, be that via enlightenment or the stark fact that all bigots die eventually - probably by stress problems brought on by their own hateful, social recalcitrance.
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At #15 rhywun-arall wrote:
...... Wales' centre ground is considerably to the left of England's .......
The polls indicate a contrary position, I have noted Plaid supporters deserting the listing ship of late in support of Conservative policies, might I suggest a few early nights for "disappointed of Plaid" ....
It is very kind of you to label me Arch-Tory, a compliment indeed, unfortunately I do not have a political life, it would be interesting being able to joust with the "nourishing mother" of "Welsh sunderers", no doubt his weapon of choice would be "blustering".
Interesting that the Plaidocrats who frequent these virtual pages, bring little of substance with which to debate, I seem to remember mapex55 writing recently about "the emperor without clothes", appropriate.
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message 15...
Did I ever say you said such?... No I did not, I simply copied down the paragraph below in which you referred to 'mother tongue'.
Please do not add where I do not write.
In the rest of my message I stated no historical 'facts' of the sort you people are apt to do, I made general commentary, which you would be hard put to disprove, or as in your last attempt, brush to one side.
"....I'm very much in agreement with Bryn on this. It's a bit rich the inculcators of True Wales moaning that Bryn has strayed somewhat off topic when all they ever do on this thread is digress to decry the fact that Welsh language speakers now have equal rights to use their mothertongue when communicating with officialdom. ..."
What I did say was, it is the pressures from those self same Cymraeg speakers, or at least the more rabid element amongst them, that is attempting to warp and twist this region, from a constituent part/region of the UK, into something that will never be a viable entity, simply because the overwhelming majority will not stand for it.
As for real opportunities in the Welsh jobs market, my, my, what cloud nine are you on, or should that be, what are you on?
The fact is, there is only opportunity in Wales, for those who can utilise the language, because the current crop of political schemesters have so badly warped the whole establishment, that it is only in their silly bureaucratic world that such jobs can, and do, exist. Outside of such secluded employment, along with the massively understaffed teaching element, the language aspect hardly impacts on the jobs market.
But, if and when, this LCO manages to get the starting gun, you can watch out for a resistance beyond your wildest nightmares, as the employers skip Wales in droves, to escape the escalating costs involved in having to abide by whatever crackpot rules will be forced on them.
Then lets see what job opportunities there will be for our current crop of schoolchildren.
A further extract from your latest effort demonstrates you inability to comprehend where people like I come from....
"....Seeking to secure the equal rights of a minority is not an act of supremacy any more than granting equality of rights to ethnic minorities, women, people of various sexual orientations or religious beliefs creates any kind of supremacy - other than the supremacy of tolerance and fairness over unabashed bigotry...."
I cannot disputer that, as it seems to be quite a placid comment. However, there is always a caveat is there not?
Just as those with distorted sexual preferences now have managed to gain a far higher degree of influence than their numbers, or proclivity, deserves, or can justify, so it is becoming obvious the same is occuring by the enforcment of Cymraeg onto the Welsh population.
You idea of 'equality' is an equality not of equals, but of a severe minority lording it over a massive majority.
English is THE language of Wales, Cymraeg the language of a disparate but over influential Cymru, a place of fantasy and slogan. Not a real place at all, a figment of some weird imaginations.
What right have you to state that ALL of our people must learn this almost useless language, just to to satisfy your personal preferences.
Why should all our kids be forced into such a corral?
Who the hell do you people think you are, telling the speakers of the worlds preier language that they MUST learn your almost extinct tongue?
Extinct in all but fact, thanks to the taxation wasted in keeping it alive. Taxation provided by 99% of the population of the UK, not just the very few who pay tax on the earnings from 'productive' employment, not so called 'public' employment, a large tranche of which is little more than dole, when it comes down to realising what output comes from it.
Bloody hot air, being about the only product.
You have more cheek than the backsides of a herd of cows.
I can assure you, whenever I see such rhetoric from one of your sort, I get raised hackles, and will tell you here and now, I shall make it part of my persoanla agenda to make sure that whenever I come across such effrontry, I will do my damnedest to make sure it gets no further.
You are welcome to have your language, but don't you dare to attempt to socially engineer my homeland into some sort of Cymraeg festered region of decrepitude and turpitude.
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Messages 6, 7, 10 and 15
A 'slippery slope' to poverty and perdition, you mean. In an increasingly hostile global economy, it would be absurd to separate ourselves from the UK.
It sounds as if they've just let you out of brainwashing camp.
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And then there were three in Westminster ..........Adam Price is leaving Parliament.
Bethan Jenkins in her blog calmed the markets, the FTSE 100 regained 200 points lost earlier in the day, some fool thought it was PricewaterhouseCoopers leaving London for the USA.
It has been announced that he is to become a Fullbright scholar in the USA next year.
One less, did he leave or has someone made him an offer he cannot refuse.
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