I'm Sorry
Letter from First Minister Rhodri Morgan to Kirsty Williams AM.
Yesterday at the weekly press lobby briefing, I stated, on the clear and explicit advice from the relevant senior officials that no officials from IBW (International Business Wales) had flown first class.
Today I have learned that this is not the case. I apologise for having misled you and the wider public.
I need hardly say how disturbed I am by this latest information now to hand. I am instructing the Permanent Secretary to undertake an immediate and thorough investigation and audit of IBW's expenditure and audit systems. This review will be led from outside the Assembly Government. This will be in addition to, and quite separate from, the work which is being put in place to review our civil service expenses system and comparative exercise between IBW and other trade and investment bodies elsewhere in the UK.
We are now entering into recess, but I will write to you again by the end of July, in order that you and other members can be informed of progress.
Ouch.
I'm Betsan Powys, BBC Wales' political editor. I'll be blogging the inside track on 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~31~RS~)
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My that is "REPUGNANT"
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This is the tip of the 'iceberg'.Perhaps the Permanent Sec. can investigate all our public bodies and Quangos. I'm sure public exposure would lead to reform. A freebie free Wales that's what we want.
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Nothing new, its first class all the way for the Welsh establishment, our World wide Welsh embassies are set in the finest locations in the World's finest cities. Why wouldn't our Cymraeg ambassadors travel first class? They deserve it, don't they?
The New York embassy is located in the prestigious Chrysler building, where rent alone is £250,000.
The first link is the Chrysler building, second link is to the other embassies World wide, check their locations? They're all prestigious, another fine example of the kind of brilliant careers created for those certain types.
Llafur, always clamours for the vote of the English speaking working classes, what exactly has Llafur done for them?.....Please don't mention free scripts and hospital parking, or that we beat England in banning smoking.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3525893.stm
http://wales.gov.uk/contact_us/officelocations/alloffices/?lang=en
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This only shows how a highly intelligent man like Rhodri Morgan can be so foolish/unworldly so as to think that the higher echelons of civil service could'nt travel first class and presumably our welsh civil servants are covered by same rules. Lets be realistic and say our American based civil servants were travelling with executives from private enterprise and had to sit in seperate parts of plane. It would surely indicate that we were third class entity.These people would be carrying important/confidential documents and working whilst travelling so they deserve first class facilities. The question is surely are they producing the "goods" by attracting inward investment to wales as the old WDA did or are they only "political" pawns of a totally discredited political non entity in Bay of Irrelevance.
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Devolution in Wales, was only ever going to benefit Welsh folk, real Welsh speaking proper Welsh folk, Rhodri kinda folk.
Anyway, in a way this devolution obscenity had to happen, ordinary folk going about their English speaking British ways of life, have had a sharp nasty lesson.......The Welsh in Welsh Labour, is not a place name, it's WELSH, proper WELSH.....isn't it Rhodri?
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Betsan...
extract from the letter....
"I need hardly say how disturbed I am by this latest information now to hand....."
Couldn't be a case of 'caught with the proverbial pants down', could it?
Is our dear leader not supposed to know what is happening on his watch, or must third party gossip bring him to the light of day, each and every time a nasty crawls out to bite him?
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Rhodri has done himself no favours here and name calling in public is always a risky business, but I'm still not convinced by the size of the coverage given to this story.
Jack,
It appears that the British Government blowing millions on such foreign ventures is ok. A bit of balance perhaps?
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#2 thegnatswatter wrote: Perhaps the Permanent Sec. can investigate all our public bodies and Quangos.
I totally agree but
The answer is NO they cant.
The reason is because they have been so deregulated to place any failure or scandal at arms length from the government that nobody can investigate anything.
#7 ianapharri wrote: A bit of balance perhaps?
I agree with this too
The law restricting proper accountability namely the Public Audit (Wales) Act 2004 was just a replication of English law that was passed in Westminster without proper scrutiny or relevance to our needs. It also took away many of the powers of the Auditor General to intervene and safeguard the public purse.
The law and responsibility was devolved to Wales without the power to tackle these situations or intervene, so we living in Wales were given a raw deal from the start.
The consequences of the Assembly being forced to make flawed English laws work is that politicians end up defending the indefensible and we all suffer, so do our public services and while English Universities are flourishing ours are in the news for job cuts.
What I cannot understand is why nationalists also defend this position.
You also said
It appears that the British Government blowing millions on such foreign ventures is ok.
The answer is no it is not
But we do not have the same English means of balancing these problems or bringing corruption to light.
We do not seem to have a group of AMs who like MPs will hold the executive to account for fear criticising the coalition or devolution.
English regulators are pro active in exposing scandal whereas ours are defensive in concealing it for fear of devolution being seen to be failing.
In Englsh culture there is the fear of the dreaded "inquiry" whereas Welsh institutions have no such fear because even if they are caught nobody is going to do anything about anyway.
The English higher education funding council HEFCE publicly threatens universities with an inquiry if there is any hint of scandal, ours HEFCW just chops 2 million from their budget and keeps the financial failure secret.
We do not have a press that will like the Telegraph expose the expenses scandal of those in public service.
You try doing it yourself to bring injustice to light and you are then a target for the most vile and vitriolic abuse by social parasites who feed off the misfortune of others.
Yes, the same happens in England as in Wales and sometimes a whole lot worse, but ultimately you are far more likely to be publicly held to account.
The answer to this situation is that we need more open government and accountable public services that are suited to the people of Wales.
That in itself is going to bring more power to the people and then the Assembly as AMs would be able to intervene on our behalf, and I suggest in that respect the story is not big enough.
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5. I don't recognise that scenario.I don't see big business setting up shop in Cardigan or Carmarthen,Ryder Cup being played in Criccieth or
the Ashes played in Felindre(SWANSEA) Rhodri has done what he was and still is supported for, making his 'cronies' in Cardiff rich and keeping European Money in Cardiff banks.It is ironic or should it be iconic that we now have a new 'champion' in the rural welsh speaking west HRH Prince Charles who's done more for farmers, welsh speakers, tourism and LLandovery RFC in a year than Rhodri,Adam Price and Rhodri Glyn Thomas has done in ten.
Devolution who needs it, welsh Politicians who needs them just leave
our 'Prince of Wales' sort it out.
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No9. I am no fan of King Rhodri but in all honesty your criticism of him is unfair as he and WAG can only work within current political/sporting/industrial etc policies. The testmatch decision was ultimately made by England/Wales Cricket and King Rhodri could only bend their arm with our cash or whatever other incentives he could provide out of public purse. The Ryder Cup is only coming to wales because of the fantastic investments made by extremely rich individual who made his dosh in USA. Our Monarch is once again only stumping up "chickenfeed" from public purse and then WAG jumps about claiming it as their success. Its ironic that the pro-devos wanted "power" in wales to correct imbalances as they saw with London getting all the goodies,well they've got devo and criticisms now because Cardiff is getting all the goodies. Your right about Prince of Wales as whilst somewhat "dizzy" in his views he does have clout and influence as when he referred wales to the Chief Executive of SONY when he was in Japan over 30 years ago. The rest is history with SONY giving employment to thousands of welsh people in Bridgend area and god forbid they came here without the involvement of King Rhodri and the Bay of Irrelevance. How ever did we manage without the third class bunch down the Bay.
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I don't know why some people keep pushing the anti Welsh language agenda in completely unrelated topics, their mono mania is somewhat worrying.
Back to the topic, Rhodri was wrong, clearly, and he has given a fulsome apology, what more do people want him to do?
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There is something a bit odd about a lot of these blogs.
Although no mention about the linguistic abilities of the civil servants is made, various writers are foaming at the mouth about these somehow favouring Welsh speakers. Likewise, the insinuation that it is all devolutions demonstrates an utter ignorance about a culture of cheerful excess by governmental high fliers pure and simple, including Unionist-minded and more-English-than-the-English civil servants across our Sceptrd Isle.
As usual, the baleful clichés being doled out by the bash the Welsh and crush the Cymraeg brigade allow the real misdemeanours to slip away beneath their tired rhetoric.
Any chance of sticking to what matters boys?
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#11 Impose the same standards of openness and accountability for how our money is spent throughout all Welsh public services including Quangos and not just IBW (International Business Wales)
Also get things into perspective and get his priorities right, I dont really care if they flew 1st or 2nd class its accounting for the money that matters.
We have all this fuss in the name of business abroad when one of the cornstones of our economy namely a strong university base which attracts inward investment is crumbling at home with massive job losses.
He should put the same energy into finding out what is going wrong, and as far as expenses is concerned its a scandal waiting to happen.
I agree its nothing to do with language or devolution as the laws in both England and Wales are the same, but the use of "disretion" can mean different things in different countries, its about how we want to be governed in a civilised society.
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10. Rhodri's the First Minister for goodness sake. He was one of the
Labour critics of the English North /South divide yet created the welsh
model when he came to power.We expected more we deserved more yet we've ended up with less. it would be interesting to see the stats on unemployment for Cardiff compared to elsewhere in Wales,to see what jobs and salaries are available.A look at the WM on thursday opens the eyes. Envious of course.But I fell for the spiel the last time round that Wales
would be better off with the Assembly.From where I'm sitting in gloomy
west wales the sooner Rhodri goes the better.I can't help thinking what
would have been so different under the Welsh Office,we would still have
qualified for Barnett we would still have had European Funding the only
difference would have been the billions spent(and squandered) in the bay.
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Re 14
You don't 'qualify' for Barnett.
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NONSENSE! How can we attract much meeded inward investment into our poverty ridden under-developed region unless we fully equipe our best civil servants to give BIG BUNGS to footloose foreign investors? And extra long lunches...and "ladies of the night on tap" as the good old WELSH WDA used to do? Not so long ago.
It's a rough old world out there in Global/local Econ-Develo Land. Wales must NOT be left behind.
WE in the "New Druids" say...brown envelopes all round. With a Welsh flag on 'em. Made in Caerphilly.
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All the "First Class" travel appears to have taken place in the USA and there's a difference of terms here. What the Americans call "First Class" is what the rest of the world calls "Business Class" or even "Premumm Economy". 'First' on a US Internal flight isn't exacly the lap of luxury. It usually means you get a slightly bigger seat and you don't have to pay for the bag of peanuts. Importantly, it also means you get a much bigger luggage allowance and flying "First" (in America) with an exhibition case can be cheaper than flying Economy and paying the excess baggage.
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15, FiFi's back. Schools broken up for the Summer?
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#12 Did you mean something like this as being what really matters?
"A fourth-term Labour government needs to be active and enabling, rather than centralising and controlling. It needs to empower individual citizens and local communities to take control of the decisions which affect their own lives through a much more radical approach to devolution of power and budgets."
Peter Hain Sunday, 8 March 2009
If so then I wish to make the point that the English bashers and anti English language brigade, who also "allow the real misdemeanours to slip away beneath their tired rhetoric."
Whereas there are some with whom one can have a decent debate, misunderstandings can be amicably resolved, and belive it or not but there has been times when just about everybody was able to agree upon the need for more open and accountable government.
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# 11 Lyn_Thomas wrote:
'Back to the topic, Rhodri was wrong, clearly, and he has given a fulsome apology, what more do people want him to do?'
Just publish the data Rhodri, all of it, not just the expenses of a few civil servants I mean all of the departmental expenditures, just publish all of the raw financial data of the running of the WAG and let the people of Wales see for themselves just what good value or otherwise the WAG is.
If those in power have nothing to hide then they have nothing to fear, publish it all.
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Firstly, I think its good that Kirsty Williams is asking the right questions. More MPs and AMs should be so doing.
We need to know how our taxes are being spent, whichever arm of government is spending it.
It may be the one good thing that came out of the recent expenses fiasco at Westminster. Regrettably, the fundamental constitutional reforms which would make all these politicians, parliaments and assemblies answerable to the people aren't going to take place.
Its too true and has been for too long, that politicians and the main political parties, have been a law unto themselves. Some of the Westminster culture has permeated to the devolved institutions. Until and unless the sovereignty of parliament is removed in a new written constitutional settlement, serious problems will persist and re-occur time and time again. Power is vested in the wrong place - at the top. That results in arrogance, secrecy and spin. It attracts the wrong types of people into public service - the self-seekers.
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19
All real debate is welcomed. Yes, open and accountable government is our aim and the nasty tone of the exchanges by Mr Morgan hardly help here.
Odd that none of postings involve English bashing and anti English rhetoric. Probably in my case because I have no problem with English people and their language (being born and brought up there and having a wonderful set of English in-laws) but I find Welsh bashing just as obnoxious as all forms of race hatred and cultural genocide.
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On what grounds does the anti Welsh brigade assume that these freeloaders are Welsh speaking? From my limited knowledge of these people most of them aren't even Welsh (of either language). The main qualification for being recruited seems to be contacts with the local markets and potential investors rather than knowledge of Wales.
Before the 'I hate everything Welsh' loonies start ranting again maybe they should check the facts. It won't put an end to their rantings but it might help them look slightly less fanatical, and stupid.
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21
Bryn-Teilo
As much as I agree with you, I think I am too much of a realist to believe the Politicians will change their grubby ways. They will pretend to, but once everything dies down as it is quietly now, it will all be pushed under the carpet and business as usual.
Turkeys don't vote for Christmas, oops sorry, I hope that is not to religious for mapexx.
23
jacothenorth
If I was a betting man (which I am not) I would hazard to place a bet that at least 90% of the Civil Servants are not first language Welsh speakers.
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24
Sorry, I meant not hazard.
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#24
"As much as I agree with you, I think I am too much of a realist to believe the Politicians will change their grubby ways. They will pretend to, but once everything dies down as it is quietly now, it will all be pushed under the carpet and business as usual.
Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.."
Exactly what I said. The New Labour tories and the real Tories will never reform the system.
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http://www.iwa.org.uk/news/press_releases/pr_saving_lang.htm
The great and the good of this proper Welsh blog, seem to think that Rhodri types are righteous. Whereas English speaking Brits with an English heritage, shouldn't really be allowed a voice in devolved...Cymru. But as you proper Welsh types repeatedly say......We're still here! We also say that in once English Monmouthshire, we're still English.
And please, stop trying to deny that Welsh Labour are language crazed bully boys, Ken Hopkins, will laugh in yer face.
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#26
The 21st century reformation has begun, the Conservative Party are constructing a short blue brick road where the delusional nationalists will be offered "speed reality training", and in particular the people of Wales will be introduced to prosperity, an impossible condition with Plaid Cymru and chums.
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27 et others - Yet again you are destroying this blog with utterley irrelevant drivel. This was a topic about senior politicians either lying or at least been given incorrect advice. A related and valid topic would have been the use of First Class travel or even the neeed for world wide business trips.
But this topic has nothing to do with language - or 'English' monmouthshire - You are just peddling your usual bigotries - give it a rest....there are plenty of valid discussions where you can keep your views on-topic.
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As a bilingual welshman it gets up my goat to see the Nats take the moral high ground on expenses they're all hypocrites.Here in the west
we have one Cllrs with two pensions,one occupational and old age,he has a part time job and occasionally works for S4C he claims nearly £14,000
Allowance and is in line for yet another pension or lump sum in lieu when
he leaves office.While he makes a gesture of not accepting travelling expenses which are minimal it is most probably for tax relief.They are
all the same once they have the opportunity they get their snout right in
and then try to deny or justify it or as illustrated by (26) blame somebody
else.
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I am interested that people think all expenses that civil servants should be published, does that include people on the bottom grades who may get sent on training courses and could claim back their bus tickets? How far down the chain do people want to go? Should a clerical assistant have their name and salary published? What about people who work for once public and now privatised bodies? Should that all be made public after all we pay their wages, if not in our taxes in what we pay for their services?
Transparency is good, but just how far do people want to go?
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But is it right for a member of the Climate Change Committee to get £900 a day and expenses while someone on the dole gets £64 a week. It is worrying to see how much work is now subbed out to trusts by the agencies
and it is suspicious that many of the quangoites have started their own trusts to access government funding.This practice is technically legal
and very hard to prove otherwise as in a non for profit trust they can
be tax exempt and pay wages and expenses to themselves for consultancy or work.Did you know that there are 168,000 Charitable trusts in Britain
in 2009?
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31 In the papers today public service jobs in Swansea accounts for
60% of the city's employment and that's without those in Advisory or Consultancy roles. That is a crazy statistic and one that must be worrying in the context of future fiscal prediction and certain restraint.We are getting to a stage where the 2.8 million currently living in Wales will be state dependent in one form or another given the rapid rise in unemployment and lack of jobs. On the question of whether all expenses incurred in the public service should be available for scrutiny the answer is yes.Why should there be a different tax allowance for civil servants and say tradesmen? Why are businessmen allowed more for an evening meal and accomodation while away from home than an electrician,plumber or carpenter.These anomalies are nothing more than class distinction and have no place in a civilised society. Severe public scrutiny and subsequent exposure is the only way to bring about reform as we've already seen now lets go through the whole system and base our future expenses regime and tax relief on equality, fairness, and accountability. They should also be available to all even the low paid.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/vote2005/html/region_10.stm
Somethings gotta change!!! Conservatives with 21.4% of the vote, gets the same number of MPs, as Plaid with 12.6%...3 each!!
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How'd I do that? Wrong thread, sorry.
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Betsan:
To what you wrote, I am accepting your apologies
~Dennis Junior~
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I travel by first class by occasionally - by train thought, and it is because under the current ticketing system first class is often cheaper than second class.
So, my advice to IBW staff: Take the train, you will do something for the environment and you will be able to go by first class.
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