Accepted with ease
Guests on AM/PM are always welcome but a much coveted programme mug goes to Conservative Assembly Commissioner William Graham for letting slip a few moments ago, live on air, that the Commission last night "agreed with ease" to accept in full the dramatic changes proposed on Monday to the pay and expenses system.
Labour's Commissioner, Lorraine Barrett, said that were "bits and pieces" in the report that not all AMs would like but "you can't unpick it". The recommendations are tightly woven, of course, for exactly that purpose.
There it is then. Our house, here in Wales, is in order. The changes will be accepted as a job lot. No tinkering. No unpicking. What you saw on Monday is what they will get.
I haven't spoken to a single Assembly Member who thought their hands were anything but tied - tied by an entirely justified public anger at greed and the sorts of claims made with abandon ... elsewhere. Right principles, they say but wrong targets.
The Commission includes representatives of the four parties and they'll be acutely aware that there are colleagues who feel utter fury at the lengths to which Roger Jones and his panel has gone to scrap and tighten allowances.
Even the most furious accept that AMs are not inately less greedy, or more public spiritied than those MPs who hit the headlines for getting away with excessive expense claims. Their argument says that the system - hand in hand with the culture here perhaps - has simply never allowed them to line their pockets, not freely at least. It might have felt like "a sweetshop" to some as panel chair Roger Jones put it but others stuck to a sensible diet. In future it'll be the F plan all the way.
The Commissioners will have been just as aware that some are happy to accept the new system is just and fair but are concerned that if "the best people" - whoever they may be - are to be attracted to the job of an AM in future, then £53,108 won't cut it. Will lawyers, school heads, medics, any number of officers in local government, men and women with experience in the private sector be beating a path to the returning officer's door for just over fifty grand? it is a rhetorical question but you know what they think the answer is. No way.
But you won't hear any of this, not for now. AMs don't expect arguments like those to hold any traction for a long time to come. They know too that if the principles are indeed spot on then you'll expect AMs to abide them - targets or not.
I'm Betsan Powys, BBC Wales' political editor. I'll be blogging the inside track on 
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Interesting piece, but surely you mean "their hands *were* anything but tied". Call me a pedant, but this is the BBC...
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MP's have had the culture of "their hands in our pockets" for decades, AM's haven't been around more than a decade, and yet to a lesser extent they have adopted the low standards of Parliament. With MPs' it is the arrogance of law makers. What is the AMs' excuse - depression they can't make law?
Instead of that ugly pointless building they could have bought a block of flats and stuck the AM's in there!
However, whilst they may be brain dead, AM's aren't stupid; what they lose on the expenses, they'll vote themselves back in pay rises with interest!
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AMs should be paid more but less able to milk the system in any way so they really are above reproach. Otherwise, they will be compromised once they start to impose the same kind of standards on others in public life about which further revelations are bound to follow!
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MT_Manackers
Thanks. I is grateful.
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Good for the Welsh Assembly - their system was transparent before, then they invited an independent assessor to examine it, then they agreed his recommendations. It's an example to MP's who fiddled and fussed, tried to hide this and submerge that, claimed exorbitant fees and flipped their homes, and used their positions to show utter contempt for the electorate.
Even the most monomaniacal assembly-haters will have to agree that the speed and clarity of the report's acceptance, plus the transparency of the system, is an example to the decrepit and decadent London bunch.
Notice too that Inspector Dai Knacker hasn't been involved in AMs expenses rows - unlike in Westminster , where several of them are lined up for visits form the boys in blue.
I'd still like to see the Welsh MPs who flipped their homes and made money on taxpayer-funded property speculation (ironically enough Labour strongholds with serious poverty among constituents) taken to the court of public opinion.
The Welsh Assembly has a great deal to teach its supposed 'betters'.
House of Lords next, I hope - I'm still keen to know if Lord Garel-Jones signed on at the House of Lords for his daily allowance before coming to Cardiff to lecture us on how he'd reached the 'top of the tree'.
Devolution can;t come fast enough for me - the WAG's not perfect but it's a hell of a lot better than the toffs, spivs, Taffia boyos and all-round trough-snouters who believe they've got the right to rule us.
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I like the name Noah, so I've changed mine from Plaidman to Noah in order to offer congratulations to the National Assembly for adopting these sensible measures :)
Now if we could only get rid of that costly and untrustworthy bunch up in Westminster, I'd sleep far better at night.
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Betsan wrote .....
..... then £53,108 won't cut it.
Could not 30 AMs reside at the Assembly with double the salary. Although 3 would probably suffice, with jobs for Perthcelyn in support.
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good call Noah Estminster. The other Noah's boat was looking pretty unseaworthy to me. It seemed to list rather madly to the right. Must be all that bile rotting the boards.
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Er... moderators - what on earth is wrong with the comment number 6 which was humorous and satirical? You're not telling me you're pulling that! Not after some of the stuff - from 'Legendary Avocet', "Noah Sembly' and co. you've allowed to be published...
You'll look very silly if you pull it.
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Stonemason 60 isn't enough to do the job properly, 30 would not have enough to form a government and an opposition and have enough backbenchers to be on the committees that give scrutiny. Reducing the numbers would be a recipe for bad government.
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The Assembly was set up to be more transparent by those who thought it was one rule for them and another for others.
Unfortunately this has perpetuated itself throughout our public services, so while Assembly Members were forced to be more honest from the start, they bumped into the forces of colonial and conservative self interest.
So what did they do? They kowtowed of course for fear of being seem as ineffectual. So while we have a transparent Assembly they govern public services that represent and behave according to the worse aspects of both the Commons and Lords.
The problem is that we do not have the AMs who speak out in the same way as the Labour Left at Westminster on these issues.
As a lifelong Labour supporter what I cannot stomach is those in the party from privileged backgrounds who not only speak the occasional mockney. But when confronted with a situation whereby they have a clear choice either uphold the traditions of the party in supporting the individual on the receiving end of an injustice or selling out to a corrupt elite what are they going to do?
Sell you and the party out every time is the answer. What is worse is that the forces of colonial and conservative self interest have grown stronger presumably to keep Assembly Members in their place.
So while AMs have come out of the expenses scandal relatively unscathed its what they have allowed others to get away with for which they have a far more serious case to answer.
I cant wait for transparent and open government that introduces our public services to the concept of accountability and an end to the jobs for the boys culture especially to Quangos, the rules on that are worse than MPs & AMs expenses for those who want to reward their mates, maintain the status quo and keep the common people in their place.
The question is whether devolution can tackle this issue to bring more power to the people? As things stand the answer is no, just more of the same. More power for greater social justice is one thing, more power to maintain the status quo is something else. That is why I am opposed to considering more power until we have that magic word transparency in all out public services.
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Come on Betsan - what a hallowed world you live in at the BBC, further pay increases for AMs in the current climate? How would that be seen by the public?
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I had mentioned before now the bad company the sainted David Cameron tends to keep, in particular former News of the World editors. Bad judgement to say the least; though no surprise.
The fan seems to be a speckled brown already ...
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Not that it matters but Snoutsintrough has been given Red Card as our Assembly Members are now so open/self debasing/accountable that recognition and admiration must be recorded.The question now is at the proposed salary levels (no perks) will we get the best people to run services in a modern manner,rather than the 1945 variety?.Hold on we got the "nodding" donkeys under old money so no chance of major changes.
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If a salary of £53k has the effect of detering lawyers and career politicians in favor of a few teachers, nurses, and other lesser mortals then good.
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The Commissioners will have been just as aware that some are happy to accept the new system is just and fair but are concerned that if "the best people" - whoever they may be - are to be attracted to the job of an AM in future, then £53,108 won't cut it.
Actually I would argue the best people are not motivated by money. I think that's the biggest problem with politics, it's viewed by many as personal advancement rather than hard work and a thankless task
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Politics is hard work and is a thankless task and its also expensive. Most parties rely on the efforts and money of thousands of ordinary members, all contributing their time free of charge. Talk of a political class is lazy, politicians are people working within political parties that are made up of a cross section of the population. I would say that a reasonable bench mark would be the salary of a head teacher or one of the larger comprehensive schools. Tie it to some pay scale in the civil service, at an executive level.
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No amount of reform of AM's pay or expenses can cover up the fact that 10 years on the Assembly is just a glorified council which still needs Westminster's OK to any major legislation. They could never hope to take on full law-making powers, there aren't enough of them who would be up to the job! If we are to have a referendum on full powers then let it also contain an aboliotion option. Let's put an end to this expensive farce once and for all and get a fairer haring for Wales at Westminster.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Re 19
I am astonished that 19 was removed. Absolutely astonished!!!
Debate, eh?
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message 18....
Seconded with full gusto.
But to return to the matter of 'expenses', which today appears to extract a feeling from the general populace those in receipt are simply thieves, I am reminded to recall a judge, some decades ago stating, when asked why a guy got three months for stealing a fiver, when the guy before the beak previous got the same for stealing 2000...
"I sentence you for the crime of stealing, not the amount you stole".
Seems to me the same principle could, and should, be applied to the matter of 'expenses'.
It's not WHAT you over-claimed, but the mere fact you claimed more than you are truly entitled to.
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