A sheep is a sheep
A sheep is a sheep: it's official.
Thanks to exemplary co-operation between Rural Affairs Minister Elin Jones and the Welsh Affairs Select Committee, a report on the Assembly Government's bid for power over red meat - yes, salami slicing taken almost literally - has led to unanimity and clarity on one thing at least.
A sheep is a sheep.
Section 3 of the Select Committee's report on the Red Meat Legislative Competence Order is worth a read. "Cattle" and "pigs" are both defined in the proposed Order. "Cattle" means "bovine animals, including bison and buffalo", while "pigs" means "porcine animals, including wild boar and other feral pigs".
But sheep?
"There is, however, no definition of "sheep" within the proposed Order. The Minister
for Rural Affairs in the Welsh Assembly Government, Elin Jones AM, confirmed in oral
evidence to the Committee that the meaning of "sheep" is sufficiently clear to make any
further definition unnecessary: "Sheep require no definition because a sheep is a sheep".
It's good to know.
I'm Betsan Powys, BBC Wales' political editor. I'll be blogging the inside track on 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~07~RS~)
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Now I know why Elin Jones has been described as the "no nonsense Minister for Rural Affairs".
Still, you have to wonder how much this business of LCOs is costing us when the minister has to explain to the Welsh Affairs committee what she means by "sheep"....
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This may help Elin - given the variety of animals farmers are breeding these days
Sheep is an inadequate description for legislation
Sheep
Any of various usually horned ruminant mammals of the genus Ovis in the family Bovidae, especially the domesticated species O. aries, raised in many breeds for wool, edible flesh, or skin.
The Family Bovidae include
Subfamily Bovinae: cattle and spiral-horned antelopes, 24 species in 9 genera
Subfamily Cephalophinae: duikers, 19 species in 2 genera
Subfamily Hippotraginae: grazing antelopes. 23 species in 11 genera
Subfamily Antilopinae : gazelles, dwarf antelopes and the Saiga, 38 species in 14 genera
Subfamily Caprinae
Genus Ovis Includes:-
Argali , Ovis ammon
Domestic Sheep, Ovis aries
American Bighorn Sheep, Ovis canadensis
Thinhorn Sheep , Ovis dalli
Mouflon, Ovis musimon
Snow Sheep , Ovis nivicola
Urial, Ovis orientalis
Genus Pseudois
Blue Sheep , Pseudois nayaur
Dwarf Blue Sheep , Pseudois schaeferi
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Is it significant the LCO does not include "goats", "young" or "old".
Is this significant I wonder, particularly as a certain elder states person, an "Old goat" possibly, is due for retirement, no offence intended "big R".
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Betsan, a question.....
.......which one of the Assembly members is the one in the picture at the top of this blog?
It, surely, must know what a sheep is, and therefore is more than qualified to sit in the Senedd, unlike some who are unaware of what a sheep is; or so it seems, from your header.
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FWIW, goats are not included in this because historically when the UK was sucked into the EU the then UK government determined that goats were too insignificant economically and therefore not counted as farmed animals. Same goes for deer, ostriches and camelids (alpacas, llamas, etc.) If you feel bored, trawl around the DEFRA website for all sorts of contradictory outcomes of this decision. As animal disease outbreaks, such as TB, bluetongue and F&M, rise in incidence the contradictions cause all sorts of problems for the animal heath experts, not to mention economic consequences for those of us who try to satisfy the (genuine) market demand for 'non farmed' livestock products.
Also FWIW Elin Jones has been a ray of light to Welsh Farmers who now, unlike colleagues in the rest of the UK, have a minister who understands and supports the industry.
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I think it was the MPs rather than the AMs that needed to know what a sheep was...
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message 7....
Are you really saying there is a difference between AM's and MP's?
Apart from the fact that MP's are a necessary fact of life, wheresas AM's are a totally unnecessary encumberance, that is.
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Betsan:
That's excellent news, that sheep are sheep!!!
~Dennis Junior~
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Re 8
... and what the hell does that mean?!
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message 10....
I gave a perfectly rational answer, but you freinds the nmodretaors threw it off, so heres another answer.
Go get educated, learn to read English, but when you have managed that, learn to comprehend what you read.
That's the problem with someone fluent in a regressive language, they have extreme difficulty understand the import of concepts in other, more progressive, languages.
Sad really, but in your case you are a deliberate antagonist, sent onto this blog to stalk myself, and others ,who disagree with your nationalistic and language agendas.
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Re 12
I thought it likely that message 11 was a barrage of abuse. No change there, then.
Back to message 8, I really cannot see the logical (let alone the grammatical) connection between the two sentences. If you just calmed down a bit, you might be able to express yourself more clearly. I wish you would.
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Re 12
Oh, and yes, another example of your hatred of my language in your own words - 'a regressive language' - what ever the hell that means! Though I've probably taken that out of context as well.
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message 13....
I do really have to think of becoming a English teacher, as there is obviously a desperate shortage where you reside.
What is the actual difference between MP's and Am's, they are both a waste of space.
That covers the first sentence,
Unfortunately we are compelled to have MP's, but the same cannot be said for AM's,,they are just a nuisance like a bluebottle that needs swatting. and the sooner the better. Unnecesary, overpaid and over here in Wales.
That explains or clarifies the second sentence.
However, poor educational standards are no excuse for lack of comprehension, unless of course ones English marks were not very good.
My! why do we have to suffer from these people who cannot understand anything.
But of course, I have to add a caveat; considering the stalking that our Pinnochio is engaged in, I begin to think his obtuseness is delibetrate and feigned.
He's a put up, by one or other of the pro independence mob.
Cymraeg is slightly resurgent due to the taxpayers nmoney being squandered in promoting it, otherwise it would be sliding into obscurity, that is what is meant by 'regressive.'
English, on the other hand, is constantly increasing, both in scope and adaptation and adoption from other languages, and the numbers of adherents grows exponentially ever upwards and globally, that is what is meant by..' progressive'.
But in your confused mind, you once again take absolute fact and try to turn it into a smear of the language.
The worst smearing of Cymraeg is done by the actions of the WAG/Assembly, and the likes of you, in forcing it where it is not welcome.
What a wowser you really are.
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Re 15
You said:
"unless of course ones (sic) English marks were not very good."
Actually, one's English marks were just fine, thank you. One of the drawbacks of my Welsh education, no doubt.
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message 16.....
Nit picking now is it, Pinocchi?
So I missed the apostrophe from the word.
And of course clever little wooden top picked it up. Must be the long, and ever growing nose, getting down to business.
Sniffer Dog Pauper.
Danny Boyles next great movie, the story of the little stalking puppet from Gogs Ville.
Stalking is a great game is it not?
But although you may have obtained good marks in English, your marks in politeness must be minus ten.
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Re 17
Stranger and stranger every day ...
Still, by saying:
"But although you may have obtained good marks in English, your marks in politeness must be minus ten."
... you gave me my biggest laugh today. What am I saying? One of the biggest laughs ever!
I do hope you're already hard at work on the No Campaign leaflets.
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I hope this latest news from Spain will go a long way towards tempering some of the separatist rhetoric from certain quarters, the non independants over there have shown theyb are not 'sheep' when it comes to the governanceo f the Basque region.
It sort of puts to bed all the examplarising of their demands that are echoed here in Wales by our similar plonkers.
Latest news from the Basque region election, which hopefully will show our separatists the way things are likely to go in any coming referendum here in Wales.....
Quote;
France 24 news, today, March 2 2009
On Basque elections
By Anonyme - Alcala
Latest news:
"Despite what the headlines claim with 95% of the vote counted the Basque Nationalist Party will fall short of forming a Government with other nationalist parties. So it seems that the nationalists ( moderate and extremists) are going to loose its monopoly of Basque politics for the first time in 30 years. Very good news for the Basque Country. let us hope that the foreign press, particularly the French one learns the lesson that not every Basque is an independentist.
Unquote:
I hope the British Press also learns the lesson, and begins to understand that not all who live in Wales are independantists.
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Re 19
Of course, Franco was just as opposed to any form of autonomy as you clearly are. The smack of firm government, eh?
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message 20.....
What has Franco got to do with a DEMOCRATIC election that has only taken place over the last weekend? And an election that has basically overturned the apsirations of another bunch of rabid nationalist nutters.
Franco has been gone for some time, or is your history not as up to date as that we all nowadays address?
We could ask the same silly question of monarchs and dictators going back hundreds of years. But it would not alter the fact that democracy has won the day. Nationalism has not.
All that matters is what occurs TODAY.
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Re 21
Perhaps mapexx didn't know this ...
You may not - I may not - like the politics of Herri Batesuna (I think they are now called D3M) in the Basque Country, but they were banned by the Spanish state from putting up candidates in this election. Even so, 100 000 people voted for them. Even the British state allowed Sinn Fein to stand, and allows the BNP to put up candidates. Had there been candidates, obviously the count would be even higher.
I don't have all the details I'm afraid, but I'm told that this would have been plenty to change the whole result.
100 000 people, mapexx, who wanted to vote, but were not allowed by 'democratic' Spain to do so as they would have wished.
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message 22...
The party you mention were banned not because the state did not like it's politics but because of the methodology in use by that party in supporting and promoting terrorist activities within the region in which it mainly operates.
The numbers involved demonstrate that those 100 k persons are not yet ready for democracy. But prefer to bypass the ballot box with weapons and bombs, arson, and a utter disregard for the life of fellow citizens.
You lot would suffer the same restrictions, should you ever decide to follow the same path.
Sinn Fein were a separate organisation, to the IRA, even if named as the political arm thereof. Ergo, a legally recognised political party. Officially accepted as legitimate for the purpose of political credence.
The Basque separatists and the ETA were, and are the same thing, and because they are what they are, the state quite rightly refuses to recognise their legitimacy..
They have refused to condemn the actions of their military wing, ETA, and so must suffer the consequences.
However, what the Spanish do is not of our concern, what is, happens to be the facts that came to light in the election of last weekend.
The nationalists were voted down by the overwhelming majority, a scenario that will ultimately happen here in Wales, once the people are given chapter and verse of the antics and activities of the Nat's and nuts.
Get your facts right.
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Re 23
Another rubbish attempt I'm afraid mapexx.
Just a couple of points will do. Firstly, if it doesn't matter what the Spanish do, then why bring it up?!
You said:
"Sinn Fein were a separate organisation, to the IRA, even if named as the political arm thereof. Ergo, a legally recognised political party. Officially accepted as legitimate for the purpose of political credence.
The Basque separatists and the ETA were, and are the same thing, and because they are what they are, the state quite rightly refuses to recognise their legitimacy.."
What?! What evidence do you have for that last sentence? And how can you justify the nonsense spouted in both paragraphs?
And then of course - of course - you say this:
"You lot would suffer the same restrictions, should you ever decide to follow the same path."
The last hiding place of a scoundrel. And a scoundrel who knows he cannot ever win an argument; although he consistently, and rather amusingly, claims to wipe the floor with everyone else!
Perhaps you need reminding that it is the British state that has been going around this planet of ours for the past couple of centuries or so killing and robbing, and continues the carnage today in illegal wars.
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FRe 23 again...
And let's hope you get past the moderators this time!
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Message 25....
Read through the following, you will find much to compare with the Plaid and nationalists agendas for Wales.
The election of a democratic national parliament in 1977 and a Basque parliament in 1980 brought little relief from ETA violence. Although avowedly socialist in orientation, ETA continued to justify its terrorist policies after the Socialist government came to power in 1982. It insisted that the PSOE was only a pawn of the capitalist and clerical forces that dominated Spain and that it had failed to offer real autonomy to the Basque people.
The ETA-M was considered to be the militant wing of Popular Unity (Herri Batasuna--HB), the most radical of three Basque parties represented in the Cortes. Although the HB increased its representation in the Cortes to five seats in 1986, it still received only 17 percent of the Basque vote. The party's platform included the compulsory teaching of the Basque language, Euskera, in the schools; the withdrawal of Spanish security forces from Basque territory; measures to restrict private capital; and the addition of Navarre to the three provinces of the north that constituted the existing autonomous community of the Basque Country. As its ultimate objective, the party favored complete independence from Spain.
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further to message 26....
Quote:
Irish Republican Army (IRA)
During a period from the late 1960s to the early 1990s, the provisional IRA was the most notorious of Western Europe's nationalist terrorist groups. In quest of a British withdrawal from the province of Northern Ireland, the group assassinated its enemies and set off bombs in pubs, department stories, restaurants, and other locations frequented by civilians in the province and in Britain.
The IRA funded its activities through a combination of bank heists, extortion, and, to a lesser degree, fundraising among Irish émigrés in North America and Australia. The failure of Northern Ireland's police force, the Royal Ulster Constabulary, to win the trust of local Catholics and to restrain so-called loyalist terrorists who conducted retaliation attacks against Catholics gave the IRA, by default, a huge role in civic life in Catholic neighborhoods.
By the late 1980s, however, a military stalemate convinced the IRA's political wing, Sinn Fein, to open secret talks with the British government that ultimately resulted in a ceasefire. The talks, facilitated by U.S. diplomacy, enraged local unionists, who want Northern Ireland to remain a part of the United Kingdom. But the resulting peace process ended most of the violence and forced the IRA to pledge to disarm, resulting in similar moves by the IRA's loyalist enemies.
The 1998 Nobel Peace Prize, awarded to unionist David Trimble and moderate Irish nationalist David Hume, pointedly excluded Sinn Fein. However, Sinn Fein is now the province's second-largest political party and its leader, Gerry Adams, is a regular guest at the White House each St. Patrick's Day.
As with the 1921 partition of Ireland, however, the 1998 "Good Friday Accords" led disgruntled hardliners to found several splinter groups that continue to threaten violence, most notably, the Real IRA, which bombed a public square in the Northern Ireland town of Omagh in 1998 that killed twenty-nine civilians, the largest-single death toll in the history of the conflict. The IRA was removed from the State Department's listing of terrorist groups following the Good Friday Accords. Real IRA and another group of violent dissenters, Continuity IRA, remain on it.
Unquote.
Between those two extracts, you will, no doubt, discern the differences that previoulsy you failed to understand.
If you still cannot, then I suggest an intensive course in basic English comprehension.
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Re 27
Well done, you've shown us that you are capable of doing some basic, superficial research on the web - as well as cutting and pasting.
Unfortunately, however, this only proves how silly your opening comments were! Sinn Fein had MPs elected to the Westminster parliament at the height of the Troubles!!! They chose, however, not to take up their seats. And all this happened long before the start of any meaningful diplomatic discussions. So, again, you're just confused.
It's that unfortunate temper of yours.
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message 28....
Sinn Fein were an accepted and therefore legitimate party in Ulster even during the troubles, hence their LEGAL presence, even if not availed of, in WESTMINSTER.
Eta/ BH/ Basque separatists were not so legally accredited under the Spanish constitution. They are, and have been for decades, banned from entering the National election process in Spain.
On local elections I cannot comment, as I do not know..
What you evidently do not know, is ANYONE in the UK, and NI, can put themselves up for Parliament, as long as they can supply the financial deposit to enable them to so do.
Their political colours and aspirations fall immediately under the rules of the House, and the rules of the Speaker when in the House.
If elected, the option to take their seat is open to them.
To the best of my knowledge there is no legal ban on ANY party, or individual, standing. (I may be wrong about any Facscist or overt Nazi style party or individual, however).
The confusion is once again yours, and, by the way, where are those message numbers you are so shy about listing?
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Re 29
Deep breath ... don't you see that you are making my point for me??!!
I've given you a list of your insults - and you, of course, have ignored them. So, where are my answers (on another thread please!)?
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Re 31
Was it that temper of yours again? And a lack of common courtesy. There's a pattern developing here, and it must be some kind of record ...
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message 31....
Numbers only accepted.
So far, all you have done is make allegations.
It's easy to state I have said something, but, as in a court of law, factual evidence is required.
So come on Pinocchio, lets have the numbers of the messages you refer to.
Or has that nose grown so long by now, it gets in the way of your view of the monitor before you.
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