Filling shoes
This morning Carwyn Jones was upfront about his leadership ambitions.
No, not THAT leadership. How many times do they have to tell us? Until Labour HQ fire the starting pistol, there is no race to fill Rhodri Morgan's shoes. Got it? The First Minister may have made it clearer than ever over the weekend that he plans to go in the Autumn. He spelled out that the Assembly Government will have put everything possible in place by then to combat the economic downturn ... in other words, if he stands down as planned, he won't be leaving Wales in the lurch.
But a race to succeed him, to discuss the future direction of the party in Wales without him?
No, the Counsel General was thinking big, extending a warm welcome to Barack Obama to the Assembly in future before admitting that he "wasn't sure he'd want to be in his shoes".
Rhodri Morgan was a pretty fervent Hillary Clinton man but today, in the chamber, the four party leaders were confirmed Obama-ites. And they spoke just as that - four party leaders, who in turn hoped and even prayed that the 44th President of the United States turns "a brief moment of hope" as Nick Bourne put it, into "a time of hope".
From the First Minister recollections of moving to the United States in 1961, of seeing segregation, racism "up close and personal", of thinking then that dreadful things he'd seen in the South couldn't happen in the UK.
Then this: that "when you see a black president elected in the USA, you also have to say ruefully that couldn't happen in Britain."
He didn't elaborate - but in a chamber with its single AM from an ethnic minority - he did seem to be saying that somehow, somewhere along the way, the tables have been turned.
UPDATE: He does elaborate here
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If they are honest and accountable, I couldn't care less if they have pink and green stripes.
Unfortunately, we're far more likely to see pink and green stripes than honesty and accountability.
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"when you see a black president elected in the USA, you also have to say ruefully that couldn't happen in Britain"
I was appalled by the comment.
What the First Minister appears to say was;
In Labours Britain -
It is not ability, knowledfe, integrity, intellect, charisma or any other personal qualities that qualifies a persons for a job, whether it is as leader of the Nation or a hospital porter.
It is Race - and racial attributes (like speaking Welsh perhaps)
You either have the right breeding or you are out - doesn't matter that you are the BEST.
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Who says Racialism is dead in the UK then?
What sort of a prat is our un-beloved leader, to make such a public comment?
As far as I see it, as long as the person is capable, certainly to be seen so after such a nonsense remark from one who is supposed to be above that sort of thing, there is absolutely no barrier to a frog or a bed bug becoming PM in the UK.
With comments like that, either would probably be more suited than he is for the top job.
Whoever fits the parameters for the job, and proves popular amongst their fellow party members, what's to stop them, black, brown, yellow, red or candy striped.
He/she will be a functionary plain and simple. What has colour got to do with it.
Unless of course R Morgan is telling us that there IS undercurrents of severe racialism in the party structure, leading all the way up to the corridors of power in Westminster.
If that is the case, then we are no better than we were 65 years ago, when West Indians were being turned away from front doors, and poor white girls named as prostitutes for fraternising with our exotic neighbours.
Unlike someone in such a highly visible job, I would hope we have moved on from such prejudice, and prejudicial comment.
At least in public life.
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#2 West-Wales wrote:
"You either have the right breeding or you are out.."
It isn't Labour's Britain, its Britain. England, particularly, is highly class-ridden when it comes to who actually holds the reins of power and influence.
Labour, supposedly the party of ordinary people, has done nothing to address it in its 11 years in power, and with a massive parliamentary majority.
We have an unelected, hereditary, head of state, whose influence is immeasurable, and who represents those very aristocratic landowning privileged classes.
There is an entirely unelected second parliamentary chamber, whose members still carry feudal titles or are bishops of the CoE.
The result of any general election is decided in about 50 marginal seats, most of which are in England.
The wealth of the UK is very unevenly distributed, both geographically and on a class basis.
Wales is essentially much less class-ridden. There are very few aristocratic landowning families here, although the few that are tend to be anglicised in education and outlook.
Wales has been markedly under-represented in government, whereas Scotland has been over-represented. I find that difficult to understand. I think there must be historical reasons, but generally Welsh - politicians - those who sound Welsh that is - don't appear to have a wide appeal, especially in England.
I had no liking for Kinnock, but he was widely referred to as 'boyo' or the 'Welsh windbag'. Difficult to know if there were racial overtones to it or not. Michael Howard, Geoffrey Howe and Heseltine, all came from Wales, but they played down their Welsh origins, and didn't sound at all Welsh. They seemed much more acceptable.
It will be quite a while before a PM from an ethnic minority (Scots excepted) becomes a reality.
I totally agree that political leaders should be chosen on merit. For that to happen in the UK would require a fundamental constitutional shift. In effect, a completely new start. A republic, with a written constitution which ensured separation of powers between executive, legislature and judiciary, an entrenched bill of rights, and a supreme court with power to strike down unconstitutional legislation.
Powerful vested interests will ensure that the current system remains in perpetuity. I think that nothing short of a crisis of catastrophic proportions resulting in either a violent or non-violent revolution or coup will bring it about. Its just about possible that the collapse of the banks, the financial system, hyper-inflation and state bankruptcy with massive unemployment could trigger it.
The shortest, quickest and relatively painless route to a meritocratic political system for us in Wales is self-determination. We're lucky we have that option. England will be stuck with the present system of governance till hell freezes over, and so will we, unless we get out.
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Remember that at the last census Wales was 97.8% white. And that distribution is heavily skewed: only four principal areas are less white than average (viz Cardiff, Swansea, Newport, and the Vale).
In an Assembly of 60 members, you'd therefore expect one from an ethnic minority, most likely from somewhere on the Glamorgan or Gwent coast, and probably from the largest minority (Asian: Pakistani), although observed results may deviate from the mean. In fact, the representation here is bang on.
But it's important to remember that Mohammad Asghar is not an AM because of his ethnicity. He's there because he's an extremely able politician and a thoroughly honourable man who does a great service to people in the South Wales East region. And that is something he has in common with Barack Obama.
Race is a spectacular non-issue here in Wales. We may have an ethnic-minority First Minister one day; we may not; it doesn't matter.
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The fact that the Assembly could waste time yesterday taliking about Obama sums it all up I suppose. Far better to debate matters which are not your concern such as foreign affairs than actually discuss issues which are within your remit. It reminds me of student union politics in the 1960s and 1970s as we all spent hours condemning US foreign policy. Meanwhile in the real world 54,000 manufatcuring jobs have been lost in Wales sunce 1997 and in agriculture has slumped by 36%. Yesterday the boss of Renault said that the European car industry is on the verge of total collapse. What chance marginal factories in Wales when BMW are cutting back production In Germany. Wouldn't it be nice if we had an Assembly which instead of being full of AMs who make meaningless speeches about a 'Calzaghe Wales' actually came with up some concrete ideas to justify their salaries.
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Why does every one insist thar Barack Obama is black, he is not he is mixed race.
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message 6,
Good points well made but the assembly has no power over the economy so discussing how to fix it would be a waste of time too, as their collective hands are tied.
The real power of the economy lies in Westminster.
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Lot of good points here,
Unfortunately as long as the current system exists the best man will never have the job and at the end of the day, when all's said and done...do you know what i mean?
I think Richard Branson would be a great PM. A country is no different to a Business. He runs his empire with a conscience....some make profit, some make losses. Why does he continue with the loss making enterprises? They provide a service to people.
Sounds like how a country is run to me. Plus, he knows how to delegate (to his ministers/board members/heads of department) and how to get results.
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For those involved in scientific research, industrial development, financial market trading, art or labouring - just about any human endeavour outside of politics.
Your place in the pecking order depends on what you deliver.
Your ability, capability, track record, are what counts - gender or ethnic background doesn't come into the equation.
Your nickname is your nickname you live with it.
In the job where we require the sharpest, best intellects, our government, few people with real ability irrespective of ethnic background would touch the job with a barge pole.
Forget the poison that goes with the job.
One only has to watch a debate in progress in the open plan office of the Senedd - no one listening, all busy at the day job working away on their computers, emails or J Lewis's sales lists, perhaps.
However nothing to listen too, the debates are sterile as is the thinking, a waste of time and money.
The results of their incompetence for us every thing they do means; - crap public services, more costs, more bureaucracy, more laws, less freedom, less real jobs, and Hassle Big Time
We have senior politicians recommending bringing Celebs in to run things.
Women only, and ethnically biased short lists.
Candidates who fit the PC profile, exclude the best and most able, (they may rock the boat)
But there now seems to be a proviso that certain groups will be excluded from the top job.
When will our politicians and media learn its not your ethnicity or gender that is important - Its what you bring to the job.
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So Wales has no power over the economy.
Shall we discuss,
Convergence funding - 1 year late and businesses made to suffer.
Wales has become a public sector country, £2 out of every £3 of GDP is accounted for in Public Sector Pay.
Welsh Language LCO aimed at forcing business out of Wales.
Communities First Programme - After 10 years of concentrated funding, not one community has moved out of the top 100 of deprived areas in Wales.
The list is endless....... how dare anyone suggest Wales has no power over the economy.
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"you also have to say ruefully that couldn't happen in Britain." : Rev. R.Morgan of this parish.
OR indeed in our Wonderfully Open Welsh Labour Party...
Think only of the (internal) trashing of Cherry Short...
And throw up at the cant and hypocrisy.
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message 4....
A very astute summation of the status quo.
Then you go and blow it in your last paragraph.
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I'm sure Rhodri Morgan is right. It's not that the parties themselves are racist, but they will always go for candidates for Prime Minister who they think will win them a General Election. In the UK that means white English, or, ar a pinch, Scottish.
I've no great liking for Neil Kinnock, but like no. 4 I remember the abuse he got in the media simply for being Welsh. No wonder that people like Michael Howard are very careful to describe themselves as "Welsh-born" rather than "Welsh". As for a non-white Prime Minister, I don't see it happening in the next 50 years at least. This isn't the U.S., and a British Obama would have little chance.
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#11,
Last i heard economic and fiscal autonomy were not on the list of Assembly powers.
Anyway, apologies for sullying this blog, it's easy to get carried away.
I'd have to agree with all points made on the chance of a "British Obama". But, at least we've had a woman in charge.
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With a bit of fast acting politician thought the comment made was turned around to get the author out of a hole of his own indiscretion.
"It couldn't happen here" was really a reference to Barak Obama's position as Head of State.
So he was right, it could not happen here, the UK that is, as Wales has the same Head of State as the rest of the UK.
UK Prime Minister, yes possibly,
First Minister, unlikely.
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I wish Rhodri was wrong in stating that at the moment the UK would not be ready to have a black PM. The reality is that there is enough low level racism in society to make this a real barrier. I don't think he is racist suggesting this in the slightest, just reporting on an unpleasant reality. That is not to say that the majority of people are racist to any appreciable degree, just that enough are to a degree where they would be less likely to vote for a party lead by a person who wasn't white. I clearly remember the abuse heaped upon Kinnock, using terms like "Welsh Windbag" etc, and that was in the serious press. Now I have no brief for Kinnock but some of the language and the tone of the articles about him as Labour leader were based on a dislike of him being Welsh.
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ER..MAYBE it was because Kinnock was..AND is a Welsh windbag?
Speaking as someone who was next to him on many "career enhancing" demonstrations in the 70s and 80s.
The cap fits etc.
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I don't think it was used as a purely descriptive term, cetainly the alliteration was irresistible to some but I got the distinct impression from many that Welsh was a pejorative term to many.
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I am also deeply appalled and actually as a white middle class, middle aged, socialist, educated person quite shocked at his comments.
It sadly shows how deeply racism is engrained here in Wales.
As a secondary school governor I wonder what message that statement is telling our young people in our multicultural society? That they can't be an elected member or become leader of a party if they are black?
Absolute shame on you. You should be supportive of all members of our community.
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#19 your .....
"..... from many that Welsh was a pejorative term to many."
I don't think disapproval or contempt has been implied when discussing the Welsh language, certainly derogatory, derisive, and contemptuous could be assumed at times.
Generally it is indifference, except when a minority try to legislate its use onto the majority, then it is toxic.
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"It is Race - and racial attributes (like speaking Welsh perhaps)
You either have the right breeding or you are out - doesn't matter that you are the BEST."
(quote form the inimitable West Wales)
Can I ask - since when was speaking a language racial? And since when was the post - about Obama and whether a black leader could emerge here - about Welsh speaking ?
Is this blog a sort of therapy for Welsh-haters, who can;t even manage t talk about any subject without havign another tedious go at Welsh?
And the Stonemason, posting the same comments, word for word, on any blog that's open. Regardless of the subject.
Pathetic, repetitive, semi-literate, manufactured resentment.
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daverodway,
Fallacious, argument by gibberish.
For the record, my response at #21 was to Lyn_Thomas at #19, an expansion on her "pejorative", an offer of alternatives
my use of "Indifference" seems to rub you up the wrong way, or is it the fundamental truth that the majority are indifferent, indifference is a difficult war to wage.
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#20 stevegwent wrote:
"As a secondary school governor I wonder what message that statement is telling our young people in our multicultural society? That they can't be an elected member or become leader of a party if they are black?
.... Absolute shame on you. You should be supportive of all members of our community."
You haven't actually read what people here are saying. I hope as a school governor, you read the documents provided you before you open your mouth at meetings.
What is being said is that generally black and coloured people AREN'T being selected or elected to represent us, not that they SHOULDN'T be. That I think in essence is what Rhodri was saying.
I don't think anyone here, even though our views are about as divergent as you can get on several issues, is racist or against having elected representatives or leaders from minority ethnic groups. What we are saying is that because of the differing culture in the US as compared to the US, its less likely that we'll have a black or mixed-race PM any time soon.
The recent media reports of members of the royal family using such terms as 'Paki' or 'Sooty' are indicative of the mindset of some elements in British society, regardless of the context in which they were/are used. I'm not saying that these royal individuals are racist at all, merely that they were insensitive, to say the least, in using such terms, being in positions of influence.
The nature of racism in the UK is different to the US. We will after all, never have a black or coloured head of state as long as there is a monarchy. What example does this give to our children and to the rest of the world? We should elect all our leaders. All should be democratically accountable. Race must not be a bar to any office of state.
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Message 24....
Considering the amount of interracial contact between the younger members of the ruling group and members of ethnic races, I do not see it as inconceivable that one may actually marry or at least breed with a person of colour.
That would I guess depend on his/her level of deliberation regarding 'instruction' from his/her family or the state.
In never thought I would ever see the day that interracial cohabitation/marriage would become as prevalent as it has.
I am in my early seventies, and I came from a relatively 'purist' background. It was only because I came to understand why I felt some sort of racialism that I was able to put it aside.
Even so, had I still been one with Alf Garnett, events would have left me behind. So what is to say that we could not have a black monarch, or PM in the not too distant future.
Maybe the British have tacitly said it's OK for their daughters to shack up with, and or ,marry interracially, but that degree of implied tolerance does not extend to our public figures, political or monarchy.
Are we that intolerant after all?
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