Chill!
What does this remind you of?
Kid: Hey Dad, can I have £10?
Dad: What do you want it for?
Kid: I'm going into town.
Dad: What do you want it for?
Kid: Just chill will you Dad?
It may remind you of life at home. It reminds an emminent lawyer and father, who knows a thing or two about devolution, of the LCO process, the way in which Welsh politicians in London scrutinise the requests for power from Welsh politicians in Cardiff.
He was at a conference today on the Evolution of Devolution and wanted to know what MPs on the panel thought of his comparison. Cheryl Gillan - no children of her own as she pointed out - had been told it was important to let go of your children and let them make their own way.
Elfyn Llwyd heard an echo of his own frustrations with the process.
And Hywel Francis? The Chair of the Welsh Affairs Select Committee didn't like it at all. It's our job to scrutinise or ask 'what do you want it for?' he said. AMs and MPs will inevitably have different perspectives but stop thinking in terms of 'those terrible MPs' as a committee of Dads just out to frustrate and spoil for a fight.
Peter Hain was there too. This Dad was proud that clauses delivering framework powers to Wales were now, in his view, being increasingly and deliberately more widely and permissively drafted. And what's more he had it in for "those Tory MPs" who want to try and second guess what the Assembly might do with its ten quid's worth of powers in the future. "That is not their job!"
And then came the question about the dispute over the Affordable Housing LCO. What was going to happen next? The Parliamentary Under Secretary of State Wayne David was very open about that .The Secretary of State, Paul Murphy, he told the conference, agreed with the Welsh Affairs Select Committee that there was a conflict between the verbal evidence and the explanatory memorandum, a conflict that led to unintentional consequences. In plain English that while the Welsh Assembly Government had told the committee they just wanted to use the powers on affordable housing to temporarily suspend the right to buy your council house in some areas, the bid for power would actually transfer the powers to abolish that right. It was he said, perhaps "not unreasonable to expect the Assembly Government to mean what they say and say what they mean".
By now that was the gist of the message expected in Cardiff Bay but it's clear they thought discussions were on-going and had thought they'd hear it first from the Secretary of State himself.
So what now?
If Paul Murphy does take the view reported by his deputy today then the First Minister and his cabinet face a simple choice: to stand their ground, to say that this bid for power does what it says on the tin, that the consequences are entirely intentional, that they have no plans of changing their request. Or back down, accept that this Assembly Government has no plans to use the wider powers now anyway so that to allow the Secretary of State to limit them - or to use a more provocative word, veto them - is really no great hardship. Why have a serious bust-up with your Dad if you don't really need the tenner right now?
But what happens then? What does Plaid, Labour's coalition partner, do then? Shout from the rooftops that in their view, there is no constitutional or legal reason not to transfer the powers? That this is simply a case of politicians in London not wanting to give them the go-ahead and looking for a get-out? That if the First Minister is prepared to give in on this then the Welsh Language LCO is dead in the water? Will they step up the talk of a potential constitutional crisis?
Ah, now I see. It was never about the tenner was it?
I'm Betsan Powys, BBC Wales' political editor. I'll be blogging the inside track on 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~52~RS~)
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You took your time to work that one out, "It was never about the tenner was it?"
It is about the minority nationalists imposing its wishes on the majority using underhanded means, and they have been outed.
Well done Westminster.
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It's not "minority nationalists imposing their wishes on the majority".
A majority of people in Wales want more devolution. And to be honest, what AMs are asking for is peanuts in comparison to the powers of other regional assemblies.
There are just more important things to worry about.
Besides, what's wrong with Affordable Housing? OKAY it might not suit the Home Counties but it is what we need in Wales.
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To be honest, I'm waiting to see how long the 'Obama' effect takes to wind its way into domestic politics...
Kids: Hey Dad, can we have £10?
Dad: What do you want it for?
Kids: We want to go to the cinema.
Dad: You can't go to the cinema on your own.
Kids: YES WE CAN !!!
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Good article - but at the end of the day 'Mummy knows best', and arguing about the power of 'Dad', when most of our legislation comes from the EU overlooks this factor..
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Good morning Dafyddabiago.
On (again?) your very first post on here, you make the mistake of quoting an extremely dubious RANDOM TELEPHONE POLL commissioned and paid for by the assembly.Well well, call me a cynical old bugger, but.........
There is only one way to determine whether the majority of people in Wales even still want this damn assembly, never mind giving the clowns even more powers...and I think you might know what that way is.......
If Wales wants to go the way of creating more "sink"(terrible expression) council housing estates, situated somewhat nastily adjacent to existing quiet peaceful private housing, then they haven't learnt a damn thing from recent history, and are letting Plaid Cymru pie in the sky dreams cause a repeat of the disaster that council estates were.
I would be less antagonistic to Plaid's idiot housing plans if every one of their own Ams/MPs lived on one of their beloved council estates.
Come on Ieuan Wyn Jones, how about a nice two bedroomed job in Wilson road Ely. Just a short trip to Culverhouse Cross and the Ely link road, then straght into the assembly car-park ! Purrrrfect !
"Not blwdy likely" squeaks our Ieuan !!!!!
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Thank God for Parliament. The Nationalist/Socialist group we have in Cardiff seem hell bent on taking us to Cuba,but without the sunshine and "dusky" maidens rolling cigars. Plainly I do not know the whole details of LCO on RTB but give them any power and they stop it asap. Any piece of legislation that gives individuals the right to improve themselves over the "COMMUNITY" will be stopped by our masters. If theres a shortage of social housing in Wales then simply adjust the budget and spend the money on new housing. Our former PM Mr. Charles Anthony Lynton Blair wished to have elected "mayors" who cut cut through the political "crap" and be directly accountable to people who work and pay taxes. They might be able to get the public services to do their bidding rather than the "political classes" who have their own agendas. Rhodri Morgan didnt like this idea and no chance od it in Wales. Whars the welsh language LCO going to propose?. We are on the brink of a serious recession and yet again the welsh language is going to be stuffed down our throats. Never mind the "sustainability" group will get us paying 20p per plastic bag to help fund "second" homes for AM's.
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This topic goes to the heart of the matter - the entire problem.
It was the Labour Party which set up the Assembly, that is, devised its remit in 1997. It was the same party which baulked at Lord Richard's Report, concluding that nothing less than legislative powers were required to make the Assembly function effectively, and provide true devolution for the people of Wales. The Assembly's powers were little more than those of the Secretary of State for Wales before 1998. In effect, it is an elected committee to decide how to spend the money Westminster decides to give it. Its what's called euphemistically, 'administrative devolution'. It does not transfer real power. The Government of Wales Act 2006 has highlighted the Assembly's real weakness, for the sham 'devolution' which has been created. In real devolution the power to legislate on devolved matters can't be fettered by another legislature, ie by 'Dad', by a committee of MPs or by an unelected House of Lords. This is what's happening here.
Now, I'm not clear to what some contributors to this blog are objecting. Is it devolution itself, or is it the Assembly, per se, as it stands?
If it is the Assembly, then I would concur that its perhaps the worst of both worlds. Its why so many voted against in 1979. They were perceptive enough to see it for what it was. Maybe the majority in the last referendum might have been higher, had Wales been getting a parliament with power. Hain, unwittingly I think, has brought the issue to a head sooner by creating the LCO procedure. It has to be addressed. Its laughable. I don't want to belong to a nation which gets downtrodden like this.
If its to devolution itself they object, then it would mean a return to pre-1997 government direct from Westminster, to Redwood and Hague, or Hain. That condemns Wales to continued relative poverty and decay, for they can't argue that Wales has done well, in comparison to other small European states.
Where do we go from here? Well, its a pity we have to start from here. We have the Labour Party, particularly its pygmy-minded Welsh MPs, fearing a radical cut in their numbers were a Welsh parliament to be created, responsible for the mess. They have done their country and people no favours. Wales has not benefited from their individual or collective presence in the Commons since 1945. They have provided lobby fodder for successive Labour governments, and got us nothing in return.
Wales will not climb out of this mess until the, 'my father voted Labour, and I'm voting Labour' mentality is finally gone. Ten years of Blair should have shattered anyone's illusions about Labour being a party of and for working people.
That brings us to Plaid Cymru. Labour are putting the ball in your court, Ieuan. They are going to renege on the agreement they signed with you. You were naive to ever believe that they would support a yes vote in any referendum which devolved real power. True, there is some pro-devolution sentiment among their AMs, but these people don't carry any weight in Westminster or Downing Street.
Plaid have a choice, carry on with their head in the sand, hoping that something will turn up by 2011, or have a confrontation now. My bet is, it will be head in the sand. People won't support a party or a leader without guts. You have to stand up for what you believe in. You are the only party which offers Wales hope. You can't do that while sharing a bed with a party which offers us nothing.
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There is only one m in eminent Betsan.
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Gawd 'elp us"!
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dafyddabiago wrote .....
"Besides, what's wrong with Affordable Housing?"
There is not a thing wrong with Affordable/Social housing, the only problem Wales has are the buffoons in Cardiff Bay who are more concerned with what might happen after houses are built, rather than getting them built.
I refer to the attempt to make Wales different to the remainder of the UK through the use of a "ban on the sales of Social Houses".
The PC / Labour confederation might have used their energy better building homes rather than trying to impose the philosophy of Marx on the people of Wales.
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Why can't Council's suspend the right to buy, allowing a sell off in the first place resulted in the current shortage. Stonemason seems to forget we are no longer in the Thatcher era, there is a move to the left everywhere to counteract the chaos of the unregulated markets. George W Bush...nationalising banks and financial institutions must mean the very happy death of Regan's (& Thatcher's) Conservative revolution.
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Education in Wales bottom of the pile!!!
Ambulance Service - Barely functioning !!!
England have hit their waiting time target in health of 18 weeks for treatment 5 months early.
In Wales the target is 26 weeks by the end of 2009. Guess what, it is anticipated WAG are not going to hit it.
Pay settlement for the people of Wales - Less than 2%
Assembly Members - In excess of 8%
And you want to give more powers to the Assembly.
The answer is simple - Hold a referendum now. The people of Wales will show the nationalists and their companions with snouts in the trough what they really want.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I thought the home rules say you can use Welsh and Gaelic! LOL
oh well i'll try not using Welsh in the future...
the assembly doesn't work, this blog...reminds me of Cardiff and London...the adults are in London and the kids trying to rule Wales are in Cardiff...good impression...
why cant Wales have her own Parliament with law making powers like Scotland!
its not a bad thing its actually a good thing...
and the real Welsh people of Wales....will say yes!
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#14 dylanrees88 wrote:
"oh well i'll try not using Welsh in the future"
Don't forget, Dylan, that this is the BBC, the British Broadcasting Corporation. Remember the struggle before a Welsh language tv channel was created for the half a million of us who speak Welsh? Countries with smaller populations than that have their own language channel(s), but then, they are independent. Here, English rules supreme.
Its taken centuries of indoctrination to get us accept that we should be treated as second class. There are a number of contributors to this blog who haven't woken up to that reality yet.
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dylanrees88 .....
All people of Wales are "real people of Wales".
By contriving an anti-welshness you discriminate.
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#16
"By contriving an anti-welshness you discriminate."
I agree, we're all Welsh, regardless of whether or not we speak the language. Its our country. I for one am proud of it.
Regrettably, one or two contributors to this blog do appear to have an intense dislike or hatred, even, of the Welsh language, although they live here. I can't understand such an attitude. They seem to want to negate the existence of those who speak Welsh, and their needs. That's hurtful, and I'm sure they wouldn't like it if they were in the same position.
Thankfully, the language is accepted and cherished by the large majority of the people of Wales, and they want to see it survive and flourish. Goodwill is needed, not hatred.
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I have never known so much division and nastiness in Wales, as exists now, post devolution. I believe we are in serious danger of a Northern Ireland situation if we do not pull back from the abyss.
In addition to the social implications of carrying on in this political direction, AMs must up their game and prove competence in the areas that they are already responsibility for, before asking for further powers to be devolved from Westminster.
Every day there is a fresh statistic highlighting the Welsh Assembly's poor performance, the latest being Education expert Professor David Reynolds report stating the growing gap in funding schools between Wales and the rest of the UK. Instead of attempting to prove his statement wrong, WAG has accused him of 'running Wales down'. Not good enough!
Economy, Health, Education - all failing, and a divided, discriminatory Wales.
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I agree completely the the "legend" as in first paragraph. I understood that devolution was to bring wales together as in reality its a pretty diverse country. The issue of devolution was not universally accepted because of welsh politics,however it makes sense to devolve power to people so that they can take control of their affairs. In my humble opinion the problem with current position is that the "nationalist" who wish to break up the UK are over represented in Cardiff and incredibly are in government. You add the continuing drive of welsh fanatics to push the language and I think you have a very unstable and unhappy country. The actual operation of devolution over 10 years when they have had fantastic increase in public expenditure has not really improved the country except in the numbers and salaries of people employed in public service in general. We are going into a period of major restructing in employment in wales and major decisions are going to be needed in Cardiff regarding the future of economy/education/health service etc but does any body beleieve they have a "grip" of the problem let alone the solution. In conclusion if you are sceptical about the assembly and current policies on language etc you are classed as being a "welsh hater" which isnt very helpful I come from working class parents and worked all my life and my main concern is the growing gap between the bottom 20% of welsh society and the rest of us.
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Snoutsintrough,
succinct, it is how the majority see political Wales.
I am sure that your "over represented in Cardiff" regarding the Nationalists will bring howls of protest.
legendaryavocet,
Devolution is not working, not because the devolution of power cannot work, it does work throughout the UK with the local authorities, the occasional hiccough accepted, it is not working in Wales because it is being used for political purposes outwith its remit and design.
PC and the separatists have much to answer for, particularly to Snoutsintrough's 'bottom 20% of welsh society'.
But all is not lost where there are voices of opposition.
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The Stonemason. Thanks for comment of PC representation in Bay. Sure some pedant will tell me under the ...Act they are spot on in representation in Cardiff. Never mind why let facts get in the way of good "polemic". I was brought up around Bridgend and all my friends from that time and others collected over years are from similar backgrounds to myself. Other than on friend who comes from a family well know in "nationalistic" in its entirety background I know of nobody why has the slighterest interest in nationalism per se. Other than their children who are in medical profession virtually all the rest are working in the private sector in England and are perfectly happy away from this "backwater". Its not just in politics that there is this absolute obsession with wales and welshness. On BBC Scrum V recently one of the "sharp" iinterviewers asked Ruddock what people in Worcester were making of the recent spat about Regional/WRU control of players. Ruddock looked amazed and responded that people"over the border" never mentioned the internal politics of welsh rugby. If you spend all your time "naval gazing" you end up with an introspective view of the world.Were on the "slippery slope" me old mucka and there doesnt seem to be any real opposition coming out from Labour or Conservatives to current drift. I'd given up on BBC Wales for objectivity and after last "internal" report that accepted that programme by Edwards regarding Mrs. Thatcher,unarguably one of the great prime ministers was" biased and unbalanced" I think Ill stick to SKY.
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Housing problems are always around because there is not enough of it; for people who are not mega-rich!!!!
--Dennis Junior--
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