How many noughts?
"Local councils have £581m in the bank."
You just knew that figure put on council reserves and quoted by the Finance Minister to the Finance Committee this morning, would squeeze its way into a press release before the day was out. An amount of money that "blows the socks off" committee member, Alun Davies, must surely hit the headlines.
Plaid's Chris Franks has just obliged.
You suspect that Andrew Davies knew it too, especially when he added helpfully to any committee members who'd missed the point: "That's half a billion pounds".
Now to be fair he did go on to point out that the cool half a billion he'd just cited included allocated as well as unallocated money. In other words you get to the cool half a billion by counting money that's already been earmarked for capital to build roads, town centre regeneration projects, match funding for European projects, new waste facilities, transport, leisure centres and nearly £60million for schools.
Perhaps he'd like us to cancel all school building programmes suggested a voice from the WLGA, who'd looked out of the window and spotted the tanks on the lawn outside.
Take away the allocated money and you're left with around £144m. Andrew Davies was in helpful mode again: "You'll note that that is significantly more than the Assembly Government holds [around £100million), for a budget of fifteen billion."
It does sound like an awful lot of money stashed away for a rainy day and as Chris Franks suggests, isn't it meant to be pouring right now?
Except when you divide £144m by the number of Welsh councils - 22 - it works out at around £7m per council. (Not actually how it works but you get my drift).
Still rather a lot given how loudly councils have complained about the impact of a tight settlement from central government this year?
Except equal pay claims will have to be settled soon. That will cost millions. Fuel and energy bills are shooting up by millions.
Still ... does sound like a heck of a lot, doesn't it?
Please don't forget, says the voice from the WLGA that the Assembly doesn't actually deliver any services at all: no teachers, social workers, environmental health officers, nor the costs and inflation that go with them.
The WLGA are holding a conference in Llandrindod Wells tomorrow. According to the agenda there'll be tea, coffee and Welsh cakes to welcome delegates. If they really did have half a billion around, you suspect the welcome would be rather more Corfu than currant buns.
I'm Betsan Powys, BBC Wales' political editor. I'll be blogging the inside track on 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~31~RS~)
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Are you seriously telling me that Welsh councils put the equivalent of £2000 per Icelander in Icelandic banks? WHAT?! Was everyone blind to baisc principles? Of course your money wasn;t going to be safe! Wouldn't it have been more beneficial to the economy as a whole to have invested it in British banks anyway? Not only can't our councils spend the money they have wisely - they cannot even look after it properly.
And councils can't really complain because we haven't (yet) seen the inflation-wage spiral so the pay settlements shouldn't be huge, and oil is back under $70 a barrel. Petrol is back under a pound now.
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I have never read young Ms. Powys in such a frivolous mood. Finance committee meetings must have improved in recent years.
"Socks being blown off"
"Tanks on the lawn"
"Corfu"
To bring a hint of Ossie, Mandy and his friend Oleg Deripaska into what used to be such a dry occasion is indeed refreshing.
To carry on this gaiety, as our beloved, caring, and thrifty councils have salted away such magnificent amounts, is there any truth in the rumour that next year will be a 'council-tax free' year?
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Never mind divvying up the measly 144millions between councils to an average of 7 millions each, I would rather see the 15 BILLIONS divvied up between the councils, which would kill two birds with one stone.
1. See off that unnecessary tier of useless clowns in the BAY OF PIGS.
2. Give those at the front line of ACTUAL SERVICE PROVISION, the local authorities, the wherewithal to properly fund those services.
As the WAG has admitted it does not provide any services in itself, just what use is it anyway.
Power to the people at LOCAL LEVEL, and to hell with the WAG and the Assembly, both a waste of space, money, and time.
Time?.. yes, for the simple reason those entities act as a delaying function to any, and all. spending across the whole gamut of the Welsh local political scene.
Functions for which the local authorities are far better placed to enact, and at a far more rapid rate, should those two not be in place.
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"Except when you divide £144m by the number of Welsh councils - 22 - it works out at around £7m per council. (Not actually how it works but you get my drift)." ~ Betsan.
HEY..how else can they pay "Golden Goodbyes" to aging councillors? (Assembly Suz Essex's designer "participation" programme)
Newport's "spendid" council paid c. £2O,OOO each to retiring councillors c. 2003...including one or two who had ALREADY "retired" to ...MALTA! Hey, how "hard working" is that?
WLGA SPEAKS ..."ITS B. HARD GETTING A TAN IN NEWPORT WHEN YOU'RE THAT AGE!!!"
Oh, how we all laughed...
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#3 mapexx wrote:
"See off that unnecessary tier of useless clowns in the BAY OF PIGS."
Welcome to the Blog, mapexx.
How about the 'useless clowns' former and present, at Westminster? One could make an extensive list.
As far as Wales is concerned, they've been an 'unnecessary tier' for a century and a half. Take for example median income. In Wales its nearly 3k per annum less than the UK average. That's one of the better comparable statistics, on pretty much every other measure, excepting rainfall, Wales fares badly. You can't blame the WAG or the Assembly for lack of powers to better our circumstances, it was New Labour that created it that way. The people of Scotland aren't complaining about the benefits greater devolution have brought them, and they want more. All parties in Scotland are agreed that they will get it.
I take it, therfore, that you're in favour of Wales remaining a relatively poor country for the foreseeable future.
Btw, no political party in the UK is in favour of scrapping the Assembly.
(Imagine designing a UK blog which doesn't accept the pound sterling symbol, but then, its the BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation... I'm sure a WBC could do a much better job for the people of Wales.
Incidentally, thanks BBC, for at last realising how England has monopolised most of your productions, and that it hasn't been fair to the rest of us who pay our tv licences. Coming at this time, it makes one think that maybe its because Salmond might well insist on the devolution of broadcasting, and then you'd have to coin a new name for the Corporation.)
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What should worry everyone is the total ignorance shown by Alun Davies regarding local government finance. There are quite a few people in Wales who would rather see money spent on direct service provision rather than paying the handsome salary that Mr. Davies receives even though no one directly voted for him. It is a simple fact that this year's settlement for all authorities including those who received over 4 % was totally inadequate. It will lead to cuts in services and council tax rises closer to 5% than 2%. Of course they could use balances. But it would be a one off expenditure which can not be repeated and merely postpones the pain. The Assembly decision to use £200 million for revenue expenditure including the foundation phase will come back to haunt them, Everyone knows that the party is over and that the next few year's are going to be really tough. It's been easy being an AM in a world where Gordon Brown has thrown money at the public sector. Let's see how they manage in the next few years in the run up to 2011. If the comments of Alun Davies are anything to go by then we can't hope for a great deal of original thought from those who spend much of their time In the Eli Jenkins and other expensive watering holes down the Bute. Perhaps he and others could explain how the £130k posts in the Western Mail will improve public services . Answers on a postage stamp please.
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re: message #5
I am fully aware of the Westminster scenario, having made comments about it over a period of fifty odd years, ever since I became politically active, but we are in WALES, not Westminster, and I am sorry to say that adding an unnecessary tier of government, where none existed before, is not my idea of logicical or rational economic management.
I note you made no mention of the sums of money involved, pricked your WAG and Assembly bubble did I?
Well tough! divide 15 billions amongst the Welsh local authorities, without having to allow for the Bay of Pigs, and it's inhabitants, is my idea of spreading the financial manure.
As for Wales being a relatively poor region, (I do NOT accept that Wales is any more than a region of the UK, not a country, nation or state), then your understanding of the word poor is not the same as mine.
The average salary in Wales may be a lot less than in London, and other concentrated conurbations, but there are other regions of the UK where the same sort of average is extant.
I don't hear of any demand for a separate statehood coming from those places, in fact when given a vote to devolve their area, the North East of Engalnd gave it a conclusive thumbs down return.
By the same token, Wales has much lower charges on the average guy than in other similarly established areas.
Quid Pro Co.
Maybe no other party is not in favour of scrapping the Assembly... have you actually thought just why that may be?
Nothing to do with the sense of control, and high salaries being paid out to those party memebers who have seats down in Cardiff bay?
You apologists for corruption, warped political shennanigins and squanderbug-itis make me want to throw up.
Finally, there is a vast gulf of difference between Wales, it's economy, and that of Scotland, but some only opt to view the potential for independence, they just are not astute enough to realise that once gained, they would be party to a complete meltdown of what little Wales has going for it.
And, to be strictly accurate, there's not much we have going for us, no matter how the bulls**t is touted by the WAG Assembly and the Nationalist element.
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Mapexx if you divided out the 15bn between the councils immediataley imagine how much more money would have been lost.
"Time?.. yes, for the simple reason those entities act as a delaying function to any, and all. spending across the whole gamut of the Welsh local political scene."
You're mixing up with the Welsh Affairs Select Comittee.
Mapexx refers to the "unnecessary tier of useless clowns in the BAY OF PIGS" and brynt41 refers to the "'useless clowns' former and present, at Westminster". Might I just add the useless clowns in local councils? Have we come to the happy conclusion that politicians cannot be trusted at any level of government (with the odd exception).
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Cheers Mapexx.
I'm quite certain that "The bay of pigs" with it's "troughing" connotations is going to catch on.
It will haunt those inept, buffoons in their leaking car-port, until the whole useless enterprise collapses in total ignominy.
Why prolong it, end the Labour/Plaid lovefest, and bring on referndum number 3.
You may have gathered I'm not talking about any sly, underhand, "increased powers/tax-raising" vote.
No, it's the third and final YES/NO referendum. THAT'S what is wanted now.
Although, as "squeaky little" Ieuan Wyn Jones said at the Plaid Cymru conference....... "There is no way we would call a referendum that we stood any chance of losing"
So that's his idea of democracy and power to the people is it? I can think of dictators who were nearer the mark !!!!!
There now follows an indignant party political political outburst from Dafydd Iwan's young foot-soldiers, carrying out their masters commands to "use forums and the internet to get Plaid's message across".
No, stop that laughing in the back there!!!!!
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Message #8....
I do not subscribe to what you are saying.
What I am saying is this, the WAG and Assembly take a large tranche of funding from Westminster BEFORE it is then doled out to the local authorities.
Now I am sure you can understand that.
What they actually provide in services from those funds is zero, nothing, zilch, they split up the funds and hand it out proportionally to the local authorities.
Sure maybe some LA's are not too clever with their share, but at least their share is applied, and has to be accounted for.
Let me put it this way to you..
You go to work and get a wage or salary.
You come home on payday and give your wife a proportion of your cash. You also dish out a bit to your kids for pocket money.
Yes, your wife 'wastes' in your eyes, a bit on cosmetics ,or a new pair of frilly knickers, at a high cost, where a simple cotton pair, at low cost would be more in the way you would see it being wasteful.
Your son goes out and buys cigarettes, in the full knowledge you will not like it, but once handed over, it's his money to do with as he pleases, even though it upsets you..
Likewise with your daughter, she also throws it away on a boozy binge night, again to your disgust, bet hey! it's her cash once in her hands.
The above examples are what is the case with the LA's, they do not always do as desired.
Now one Friday night you come home to find that before you dish out your cash, you have to hand it all over to your next door neighbour, for him to take a cut, and then to spread it between you and your family. Who then have to try to make ends meet on the reduced income, which has been reduced by the neighbour having collected a part of it. Apart from which the neighbour actually does NOTHING.
That is how I see the involvement of the WAG and Assembly, an unnecessary third party at the feeding trough, doing absolutely nothing to justify their existence.
You would scream blue murder if your next door neighbour were to get his hands on your salary or wages, so why do you tolerate this Bay of Pigs getting their snouts in the trough.
Exactly the same circumstances, but at a much higher, and vastly more costly level.
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#7 mapexx wrote:
"I do NOT accept that Wales is any more than a region of the UK"
Try reading Wikipedia, or any other reputable source. Who cares what you accept, its facts that matter. If you want to believe that the moon is made of green cheese, and that aliens abduct people, that's up to you. The rest of us live in the real world. Come up with some facts.
Westminster doles out money to the English Local Authorities and carries out central functions, as far as England is concerned. That is Westminster now has a dual role as far as England is concerned. The Assembly and the WAG also have centralised functions in Wales. They don't simply share out the money to the 22 authorities. Do some homework before you come here and rant.
Btw, how many nicks do you have.. mappex... mapexx?
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To Mapexx: I think it's more like giving it to your wife the way described it. Giving it to the weaker part (Wales) of the family (UK) to dole out, not that I think that the female is the waekest part of the family - I am merely following on from Mapexx.
"So that's his idea of democracy and power to the people is it?"
Well it is democracy. Because the people have influenced his policies without even having to vote. I think that shows that the people are very powerful as they do not need a referendum or an election or any other official system to get their message across. A dictator on the other hand would just do as he pleases without taking the people's wishes into consideration first.
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Message 11.
Wales is a region under the control of the UK government.
It is not a country, or a nation , despite what Wiki has on it's pages.
Wiki is a bloated log, furnished by people who wish to add anything they like to add, with hardly any contradictory voice in challenge, unless a glaringly obvious error is made.
To call Wales anything, other than a region of the UK, is one such error.
It is this sort of disinformation that gives ammunition to devolutionists and Nationalists, falsity indeed, which will ultimately lead those two elements into the depths of civil discord once the majority wake up to realise just what is being done, in covert agendas, by those who wish to wrest power unto themselves.
Especially by the use of the language weapon they have so far managed to utilise towards bending the population, via the emotive propaganda constantly placed in the public domain, at taxpayers expense.
Wales does not in any way shape or form meet the internationally accepted parameters of nationhood. It could NOT survive as an independent state in most of the conditions it is presently constituted under.
Message 12...
The new movement True Wales will hopefully regain much of the ground lost to the Cymru nationalists, once the campaign gets fully under way, it should, and will rival this Assembly generated 'yes' campaign known as the All Wales Convention.
The funding of which, along with the implications inherent in it, comes from the Assembly, in the hopes it will return a positive vote in a soon to be held referendum.
That is unless True Wales does manage to convince the bulk of the population, a bulk that outnumbers the nationalist element by a vast differential, to return a negative return.
Once the demand from the control freaks in the Bay for more powers has been denied by the electorate, maybe a serious and deconstructive action will be taken, to not just diminish the existing powers of the Assembly, but actually cause it's demise and removal altogether.
Many on the Nationalist side of the debate often quote Scotland as an exempl, but when Scotland went to the polls over devolution, it was constrained to return a majority of some sixty or so percent, unlike what occurred in wales where a majority of just 0.06% was tolerated.
But I can assure you all, that was not the case for the south east of the region, and it is in the lower section along with the eastern border from south to north where the true power lies, and soon, it will be seen that these areas will have their day.
Then it will be a 'democratic' result as a far greater majority will overturn that nonsensical previous so called majority.
Maybe the next time we are required to vote for the future of Wales, a similar electoral caveat to that applied in Scotland, and later, the North East will come into play.
A minimum of 60% in favour, one way or the other.
Then we shall see a result the independent seekers and nationalists will not be so blase about.
Language, or no language, taken into account.
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12. At 10:22pm on 24 Oct 2008, -osian- wrote:
(In reply to message 9)
Well it is democracy. Because the people have influenced his policies without even having to vote. I think that shows that the people are very powerful as they do not need a referendum or an election or any other official system to get their message across. A dictator on the other hand would just do as he pleases without taking the people's wishes into consideration first.
Reply by Noah Sembly
So let's get this clear Osian, you are saying that there was nothing wrong with Ieuan Wyn Jones's statement at the Plaid Conference..."There is no way we would call a referendum that we stood any chance of losing"
You call that devious little pipsqueak's words "DEMOCRACY"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your pathetic attempt to defend the indefensible will amaze any who read theses posts.
I've always been of the opinion that a referendum is called so that the people can vote on primarily a single issue topic.The fact that Ieuan Wyn Jones made his disgraceful comment "THERE IS NO WAY WE WOULD CALL A REFERENDUM THAT WE STOOD ANY CHANCE OF LOSING" is arrogant in the extreme. That it hasn't been picked up by the sheepish Welsh media is worrying to say the least.
Where the hell is the opposition to all this madness? The Lib Dems seem to be in a constant state of bewilderment. The Tories are just biding their time to the next Election and Welsh Labour have quite simply lost the plot...though the closet nationalist Rhodri Morgan must take the blame for most of this.
No wonder emigration from Wales to England and mainland Europe is at an all time high !
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# 13
Taking the logic of your argument further, regions formerly under the control of the UK government such as Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Malta, Cyprus, the Republic of Ireland, the original 13 colonies of the United States, India, Pakistan, South Africa (you get the drift) are not countries or nations either.
Not many of the people of these places are clamouring to return to the UK government the power that has been, voluntarily or unwillingly, devolved to them.
You may choose to ignore the fact that in this summer's opinion poll, by the Institute of Welsh Politics and the market research agency GfK NOP, only 15% of people interviewed wished to see the National Assembly abolished, but it is a historical inevitability that the people of what you refer to as the region of Wales (so it must by definition exist, or it would be known as something like the West of England), having tasted a very limited form of self-rule, rather than asking to relinquish it, will wish to have more.
Of course, I admit that, given your age, this is something that might not happen in your lifetime, so you may be spared the embarassment.
But it will happen.
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#14
How naive about politics are you, Noah? (BTW, didn't you go out with the Ark?)
Nobody, least of all a politican, tries to do something he/she wants to do, thinking he/she won't be able to do it.
How many British Prime Ministers have voluntarily called an early election on the premise that it would be lost?
I trust you do really believe in our wonderful British form of DEMOCRACY?
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wheredowegofromhere, .....
There is a great difference between the colonies and Wales, the colonies had an overwhelming wish for independence, in Wales there is a steady state 10 percent, of which a very small minority know what PC has in store for the future.
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Wheredo . . . . . .
You are a well known nationalist fanatic. I could pick so many holes in your tired old arguments (See you're still trying to flog the results of a random telephone poll)..but d'know.....I just can't be bothered.
However I, and I suspect many others, find Ieuan Wyn Jones's comment "THERE IS NO WAY WE WOULD CALL A REFERENDUM THAT WE STOOD ANY CHANCE OF LOSING" both arrogant and distasteful.
He made it on camera, so maybe the BBC might one day decide to show it......though it might well be a few hours before dawn !
Rather an ageist remark there at the end Wheredo. Though in the ranks of Dafydd Iwan's propagana corps, the late teens is considered old. . . . ."Heres a lollypop, come and work for Plaid Cymru"!!!!!!
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#17
I've re-read my postings 15 and 16 but don't see any expression of a preference for an independent Wales. Merely that no territory (region, country, state or whatever) wishes to relinquish the powers granted to it. It's self-evidently part of human nature.
#18
"Well-known nationalistic fanatic"? Had to laugh, where did you get THAT from?
Pick so many holes... really?
Re your dig at the BBC: it always surprises me how the BBC in Scotland is accused of a Labour bias, but in Wales, of a Plaid bias. Is this one and the same organisation?
Ageist? ... where? If you're referring to the end of #15, the gentleman in question gave a clue as to his years in #7, and given the present attitudes in Wales to devolution, it may be a while before more powers are devolved.
If you're referring to my quip about the Ark, don't be so thin-skinned. You seem to dish it out pretty well yourself.
Thanks for the lollypops, I'll pass them on to my great nephew and nieces.
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Wheredo....
You say you are not a nationalist!!!
Come off it for goodness sake. Your previous posts leave a trail of clues as to your true position.
For instance, just read your post 15 and then Stonemason's reply post 17.
A closet nationalist if ever there was one...you are Rhodri Morgan and I claim my 5pence off a litre of petrol voucher !
Still smiling at your "thinskinned" comment.... I don't think that applies to either of us !
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He didn't deny that he was a nationalist, merely that he hadn't stated that he was a nationalist.
I'm not sure if I consider myself a nationalist, it does conjure up a number of unpleasent images doesn't it? However Rhodri Morgan is not a nationalist. Just because he's useless doesn't make him a nationalist. And just because he wants more power doesn't make a nationalist either, just shows he's a normal politician. As where do we go from here stated any country which has achieved any power will wish to hold on to it, and if you haven't achieved power then you want it.
And IWJ may have misjudged his comment but it is an example of democracy as the people's opinion have saved him an embarasment and some tax money as well. I am sure that you would appreciate that having read your comments about the 'random and uselss poll which was a waste of tax payers money etc etc'.
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21. At 9:54pm on 25 Oct 2008, -osian- wrote:
And IWJ may have misjudged his comment but it is an example of democracy as the people's opinion have saved him an embarasment and some tax money as well.
Reply by Noah Sembly.
Osian, I'm genuinely confused (well it is Saturday night) by what you mean about "example of democracy" and "as the people's opinion has saved him an embarrassment and some tax money as well"
?????????????????????????????????????
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Let's leave you in no doubt about my position, I am a supporter of Plaid Cymru and proud of it. The reason why Wales is left behind (small countries like Latvia, Lithuania & Estonia) is because of inherant low esteem and confidence perpetuated by Mapexx and Noah Sembly with their constant and depressing whingeing and negativity...come on guys give me solutions not problems!! There is only one place for these 'borderlands' mixed identity guys and that is the Ark.
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message 12.
You say a dictator, ( or I presume you'll allow...dictatorship) will just do as he/it pleases, without recourse to the people.
That my friend is exactly how many of us view the performance of the Assembly.
It carries on as though it has a total mandate, granted by overwhelming numbers of the people.
That is far from the truth, as the people were not consulted beyond being asked of they wanted a Welsh assembly.
Many of those, including myself, who opted to say yes in the devolution debate and subsequent election, which returned a simple majority from less than a half who were entitled to vote, did not realise they would, within a very short period of time, find themselves being carried along by a WAG that embraced a Nationalist and isolationist agenda. Dictatorshiop by apathy it seems.
This IS tantamount to a dictatorship, in effect, simply because it has no mandate to carry on that agenda.
The potential for 'democratic' decision making in The Bay is just not there, because, those who have been elected now seek to perpetuate their tenure.
Their bottom line being the fact they get well paid, from general taxation across the UK, to sit in judgement, never mind whether fair or foul, on the decision making by those who are sat in council chambers across the region.
Why this region needs to be so different from our next door neighbour is baffling, I do not see Manchester or Liverpool having any great argument with a Assembly in England, there isn't one to argue with, so why should we have to endure such an 'oversight', and overbearing, authority to monitor and frustrate OUR local authorities in Wales.
If Manchester, Liverpool, et al, have direct negotiation rights with Westminster, what makes it imperative that Welsh towns and cities have to suffer a middle man in order to manage their affairs, and at such a cost.
Someone has commented about age, well for your information, I am exceedingly fit, and from a family that is very long lived, and, as I have stated many times, I intend to go out as the oldest man in Wales when I pop my clogs, so be prepared to suffer me until I am 110, that is for another 38 years.
Another point also....those other territories mentioned by someone else, do meet the criteria for a recognisable nationhood, or statehood, but, as I said before, Wales, this tiny little region stuck to the side of the UK has nothing going for it, that would even begin to allow the creation of a nation, so stop blathering and waffling, it just will not happen, in anyone's lifetime, never mind in the next 38 years.
And a final point, I tend not to quote from, to, or about individuals, but as someone has mentioned Rhodri Morgan, I will say this...
It is neither here nor there that he has he has nationalist tendencies, but he heads a grouping that has consistently bowed to the pressure of people with those tendencies.
He and his party have allowed, maybe by default, but certainly in the interests of retaining some degree of power, the agenda of rabid nationalism to ensconce itself within the Assembly and the WAG.
And all this Kow-TowTow'ing without proper and incisive access to the will of the people of Wales.
By that, I refer not to the minuscule number of Cymraeg speaking nationalists and isolationists, but the 80 or 90% of the population without linguistic or nationalist compliance to the agendas of those I have mentioned.
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Now...that's what I call a rambling statement...no point arguing, suffice to say you are one of far too many "Welsh" people who are nothing more than apologists for your nation, language and culture...you should be ashamed of yourself. Oh what I would do to have just a fraction of those proud Kosovar Albanians as Welsh...they have pride, confidence and self esteem and will not be bullied by imperialists. You are quite happy to roll over and be kicked by all and sundry...you should change your pseudonym to "Whimp"
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Oh Negrin, what a little ray of sunshine you've turned out to be.
I'm particularly fond of your statement that Mapexx (and presumably me) are "quite happy to roll over and be kicked by all and sundry". Rather a daft thing to announce don't you think?
The reason that I have come out against the nationalist Plaid Cymru and all it stands for, is because I became fed-up of the bullying, lies, and yes intimidation of the Welsh people by the lunatic fringe of the nationalist Plaid Cymru.
Those of us who have absolutely no intention of learning Welsh, or of living in an 'independent' Wales, have found ourselves in danger of becoming marginalised by the cynical political machine that is Plaid Cymru. A machine that is helped to survive by the disgraceful bias of the BBC toward the nationalist cause. They deny this, but why then is the percentage of bilingual speakers so high inside certain buildings in Llandaff?
Day after day I read sly, contrived, untrue , and I suspect, possibly racist tales of those 'terrible' English. I have become ashamed of the pettiiness, and nasty-mindedness so prevalent since the onset of the abysmal talking shop, and waster of money that is the assembly.
The Cardiff "Bay of Pigs" or "troughers"is in a wonderful position.It can spend money like there's no tomorrow. Then, in need of a fresh cash injection can plead poverty because "those mean sods in England" won't give us enough. If that is the route Wales is taking, the route of being the spongers of Europe,I want no part of it.
By the way Negrin, your reference to ""those proud Kosovan Albanians" just shows up your ignorance of the subject. May I suggest you find out a little about the murder, rape, and torture carried out to a sickening degree by the KLA..(Kosovan Liberation Army).
Oh, and it's WIMP.
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Now now "Negrin", it sounds from your last that you might need a nap .....
..... your diatribe reminds me of SNP President Dr Ewing who said recently:
“The enemies of Scotland are not the English, as one of our founders said, they are in fact well disposed towards us. The enemies of Scotland are the traitors within the gate, the unionist parties who, whilst claiming to be Scottish, don’t wish for their country the normal freedom that every world citizen expects for their country.”
I guess you might replace Scotland for Wales and Scottish for Welsh.
Fortunately, in today's newspaper it is reported that voters are deserting the Nationalist ships in droves, so, not long until the compassionate and caring True Welsh people can debate things that matter to the voters, such as housing, rather than the philosophies of the 1950's socialism.
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mapexx your assertion that Wales is not a nation marks you out as a troll, a person who posts deliberately inflammatory statements for the purpose of creating dissension and discord, ie to get a reaction. I don't believe that you truly believe that - if you do I feel sorry for you. It runs counter to the facts.
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#24 Mapexx
Delighted to hear of your robust health and of your plans for the next 38 years.
You will undoubtedly have the chance to enjoy seeing increased powers devolved to the National Assembly, whether it be as autonomous or sovereign Parliament.
No matter, the road is forward.
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Well done Mapexx in creating "Bay of Pigs" in relation to our wonderful and forward thinking strategically empowered organization in Cardiff. No doubt the need for four civil servants witha salary of £130K plus pension cost etc to think strategically will improve the performance of local authorities etc ,however in our politically led Assembly they better ask Rhodri and his nationalist mates as to how "strategic" they can think,otherwise its a waste of time. Imagine if they thought to give actually give the people who work in Wales a "legal right" to purchase services direct from our nationalised service providers such as "education vouchers" etc. With regard to "29" you are probably right in that the road is forward,however when it leads straight off the cliff then time to get in reverse. With the current policies and practices in BBC Wales " Your nation Your Station" the dice are loaded. Would be nice to know how many english only speakers, devolution sceptics with "conservative" views openly expressed are in senior positions in Llandaff. In conclusion did anybody watch Dragons Eye last week and the pathetic performance by the AM for Cynon Valley. I am sorry but am unware of her name but she seemed to have forgotten that Labour has been in power in Westminster where the major decisions are taken since 1997. The "conductor" of the programme was also pathetic in his statement that the Conservatives might be happy to see the dramatic increase in unemployment. If this is the standard of people in "government " in Cardiff and impartial staff employed by BBC Wales then god help us.
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#14 Noah wrote:
"No wonder emigration from Wales to England and mainland Europe is at an all time high!"
You're living proof, Noah, that life in Llanishen and on Roath Park Lake, where your Ark is washed up, must be good under the WAG, as you're still there, spouting utter nonsense.
You, mapexx and snoutsintrough need to do some homework.
Question: How many of Britain's (England's) former colonies have voted to terminate their sovereingty and return to rule from London? (Doing homework doesn't seem to be your strong suit, so I'll give you the answer: Zero.)
Neither can I see the inhabitants of the Republic of Ireland clamouring to return to a lower standard of living.
How about the Scots, who are seriously considering opting out? There, all the parties are agreed that their Parliament should have more powers, because they recognise a good thing when they see it. Obviously we have a handful of less perceptive people here, who want a return to the days of Redwood and his ilk. How daft can you get?
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Thank you brynt41 for mentioning me with the fabled Noah and Mapexx. You and other welsh nats are a real cause for concern in that your distortion of history is affecting your rational thought process. Wales was joined with England when the welshman from Pembroke became King of England as Henry V11. We have played a thoroughly decent and constructive part of what became the United Kingdom and long may it continue. You forget that following Irish Independance in the 1920's there followed a terrible civil war and economic growth only took place following their entry into the EEC following our joining in the 1970's. As Norman Lamont stated they have received "obscene"sums of public subsidies from Europe (which in reality was English/German/Dutch)money as they are the only net contributors to european funds. The Irish were extremely succesful in implementing "right wing"capitalist policies which attracted investment from America. They are still proceeding with these policies in an attempt to attract large multi nationals from City of London because of high taxes being imposed by Brown/Darling and those other brilliant economic managers. If Wales was to become independant with the number of a)old people, b)mendicants in their totality, c)sick and fat people, d)extent of public servants who are paid direct by state or whose companies are funded by state), S4C who is watched by about 9 people it would be bankrupt in one day. Why do you and rest of nationalist/ socialists hate John Redwood so much?. There were some excellent Secretaries of State for Wales who were the "dreaded
english" i.e Peter Walker,Hauge,etc. I think you should get about more and talk to welsh people who have worked for 40 years with good careers in both private and public life and ask them what they think of the Assembly in its entirety.Let us be absolutely honest they are third class politicians and even our glorious leader Rhodri was'nt given even a "bag carriers"job by Anthony Lynton Blair in 1997. Why do you think not ?. The rest of them couldnt make it elsewhere and hence the desire to "serve" in Cardiff. As the great John Macenroe said once "give me a break"
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Brynt. I am a little concerned you may be stalking me. May I advise you straight away that this is definitely not a sensible thing to do.
However, if you are, I'm afraid you are way off target. I do not, and never have, lived in Llanishen....nor for that matter "on" Roath Park Lake....what the hell d'you think I am, a Greylag Goose, or a randy Mallard ?
Poor Brynt, have you been away thinking about your latest post? All that riveting stuff about old colonies, Ireland, and now maybe the Scots. Guaranteed I'm sure, to make us all change our opinions about devolution or nationalism.
It must be so frustrating that even after all the work put in by you Plaidophiles, you still have to depend on where miserable, cantankerous, old gits like us choose to shakily scrawl our X's. This democracy stuff really must be a terrible nuisance for you all.
By the way Brynt old chap. You won't believe this. (though d'you really think I give a damn) My 'Ark' is not washed up in Roath Park Lake. It is moored nice and snugly near St. Jean-de-Luz, on the Cote Basque.........(I hope)!!!!!!
And YES I am fully aware of the region's long fight for independence, and need no lessons from you on the details.
But I somehow feel I'm going to get them anyway.!!!!!
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#32 Snoutsintrough wrote:
"Wales was joined with England when the welshman from Pembroke became King of England as Henry V11".
You clearly didn't listen to your history teacher, Snoutsintrough. Henry Tudor (VII) was only one-quarter Welsh by blood. His grandfather was Owain Tudur, but his grandmother was the French Catherine of Valois, who the widow of Henry V (of England) True, he was born in Pembroke Castle. However, he lived most of his adult life in Brittany and England.
Wales wasn't 'joined to England' during his reign, either, the Act of Union (of England and Wales) being enacted during Henry VIII's reign in 1536.
It seems that you can't get your history right so as to distort it.
I think its a bit rich for you to describe the Assembly's politicians as 'third rate', in comparison to some of those you name... Lamont, Blair, not to mention Brown, Prescott, Mandelson, Blunkett.
Where I would agree with you, is that the party leaders in the Assembly are weak.
Not one of the parties has come up with a Salmond, and I think its because the institution itself is largely dealing with administrative matters. It doesn't call for leadership, or the cut and thrust of politics. Just watch some of the debates and the subject matters they are discussing. Pathetically minor, imho. A parliament with real power is required to produce statesmen and great leaders. Even then, look at some of the pathetic PMs Westminster has produced.
The blame for the Assembly's weakness must lie with the Labour Government, for they created it that way. Hain has even added to the problem by creating a pseudo-legislative mechanism. The WAG/Assembly can't claim to be truly legislating using that procedure, if the area of legislation is very narrowly defined by a parliamentary committee in Westminster. In reality, the legislation will owe as much of its existence to Westminster as to Cardiff Bay.
I think that Dafydd Ellis Thomas was too optimistic in his view of the 2006 Act, and now he's realising that the Assembly was sold a pup. The outlook for the working of the Act is even bleaker, with the prospect of an unsympathetic Tory administration in London. Plaid have tied their hands, as far as speaking out about it is concerned, by getting into bed with Labour. Of course, Rhodri can't be too critical of his master in No 10, because he knows full well the views of the Welsh Labour MPs on devolution... views not shared by the majority of the Welsh people, if opinion polls are anything to go by. But then, the people of Wales don't stand to lose their cushy seats, fat salaries, expenses, and pensions.
Many in England are complaining about having a PM who is a Scot, and many Scots in the Cabinet. If they don't want Scots running their country, why should we have English politicians running ours, regardless of whether they are good or bad? If we are objective, we have to recognise that the facts show that Wales has failed to prosper under such people, whereas many small independent European countries have done very well by comparison.
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Per 34. About 6 years ago BBC Wales held a phone-in for people to nominate the greatest welsh person ever born. I nominated HenryV11 and Peter Stead the historian stated that he met the criteria and was good suggestion. If its good enough for PS its good enough for me. I'm aware of the date of formal act of union but the power was in hands of welshman when HenryV11 got the throne. To compare any of the politicians in cardiff to ones who achieve very high office at Westminster is a joke.Whatever one's politics any person who gets up to the top levels of the greasy pole in either the Labour or Conservative parties is a substantial person and to stay there for years takes some doing. The level of scrutiny by serious press/independant TV e.eg SKY/Channel 4 /Parliament is formidable and when compared to Assembly itself (Thank you Rhodri) at the Assembly and BBC Wales(Your Nation /Your Station) and Western Mail is like comparing playing for Liverpool FC or Tondu Robbins FC. I would suggest that you look at the wealth around Cardiff/Cowbridge/Monmouth as compared to Tottenham in London to see that disparity in income levels etc are spread throughout the UK.The idea that more of the nationalist/socialist policies of ONE WALES with more public money spent in line with past 10 years will increase wealth is an illusion.
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I see there are yet more of these Plaid and Nationalists out there who cannot see the wood for the trees.
I would suggest you think carefully on my messages, as in them there is not one sentence that can be taken to pieces, without first you breaking your own ideas into bits.
No matter which way you look at the Assembly and the WAG, they have not been roaring successes, more so whimpering failures.
They do absolutely nothing that could not just as well, if indeed not better, by the local authorities, receiving funding direct from Westminster, as all other UK towns and cities do.
As for the mention of Henry the whatever, or any other figure of history, as I have stated many times, I go with Henry Ford, in saying "history is bunk" and should only be used to teach kids the follies our ancestors got involved in.
There is no way this small region could survive the modern world in isolation, recent fiscal events have put paid to that idea, so when will these two clods of nonsense in the Bay of Pigs roll over and die,(they are already doomed to extermination anyway) why not simply wrap it up right away.
But I forgot, there are now so many with their snouts in the trough they cannot really afford to slip quietly away, and must therefore await the executioners axe to fall. as surely it soon enough will, and Myself, Noah,and all the other REALISTS, who anticipate the day with longing and relish, will be there to cheer as the chopper does it's business.
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Regarding #36
No the Assembly is far from a roaring success, in fact it's quite far from a success. I won't agree with whimpering but begging is pretty accurate. What can the Assembly do without the permission of Westminster? Every time the Assembly wishes to make a decision it needs to go cap in hand to London. Any meaningful legislation is being delayed by London eg the new Welsh Language Act. In my opinion one of the cornerstones of the One Wales agreement is being delayed and postponed by Westminster through the LCO process. The Assembly is nothing more than a waste of time and money, and Assembly funding would be better sent directly to councils.
You say that Wales 'couldn't survive the modern world in isolation, recent fiscal events have put paid to that idea'. List of the 10 most prosperous nations on Earth (gdp per capita):
1. Luxemborg
2. Norway
3. Qatar
4. Iceland
5. Ireland
6. Switzerland
7. Denmark
8. Sweden
9. Finland
10. Netherlands
Wales ends up at about 30, compared to the UK as a whole which has a rank of 11th. And unless I'm mistaken all of these countries in the top ten are smaller than the UK in terms of landmass. Have you heard of the IMF? It helps countries who need it eg Iceland who have received $2.1bn. I can't remember which countries have gone to the IMF for help though I am sure that a lot of these small prosperous nations haven't. And froma quick estimation and sketchy memory I think that the UK has made the biggest bailout in the world so far. You cannot say that we'd be in a worse situation if we were independent. To quote Robert Peston:
"Why don't international investors love our currency any more?
You know where the smell is coming from:
1) our huge and tumbling housing and property markets;
2) a banking sector massively dependent on flighty wholesale funding from overseas;
3) a fast-growing budget deficit that has to be funded by massive sales of sterling government bonds, at a time when central banks, sovereign wealth funds and institutional investors are suffering a squeeze on cash available for such investment (Michael Saunders of Citigroup estimates that the Treasury will have to flog around £100bn net of gilts every year for the next three years - which, as a percentage of GDP, takes us back to the horrible deficit years of the early 1990s);
4) oh yes, and we appear to be in recession."
And you say that we're better off in the UK?!!! And who says we'd be all on our lonesome in the World? Ireland joined the Eu for a reason, Iceland wants to join the EU, The Netherlands is the centre of the EU, etc. In a globalised World you are never on your own, and whatever bad affects you may feel you can also feel the good effects. And the Euro is hugely outperforming Sterling at the moment.
Now that I have started an economic argument please return with some sort of credible argument instead of blathering on about Assembly weakness, the foolishness of independence, etc. Please come up with something definite except for being negative and vague about everything.
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#36 Mapexx
"History is bunk": pretty stupid comment by Henry Ford to hitch your wagon to, Mapexx.
As everything becomes history, then everything must be bunk. You then contradict yourself, or him, and say history is useful for teaching about the follies of our ancestors.
And you talk about others not seeing the wood for the trees... you seem pretty ligneously-challenged yourself.
Then "there is no way this small region could survive the modern world in isolation" - this is equally true for whatever national unit (Wales, England) or geopolitical entity (the UK, the EU, the USA) you care to name. We are all dependent, one on another, to some extent in this our modern world.
As for your "why not wrap it (the National Assembly) up right away", the answer is simple. Because the Welsh people don't want to. Waiting for True Wales to convince them into thinking the contrary (as per your #13) is tantamount to denying people the right to have their own opinion. We in True Wales know best, do what we say.
Your arguments recall the words pot, kettle, black, etc.
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What is most interesting is the "it's your fault attitude" of the so called financial directors of these councils. When it goes well - it is my genius, when I mess up "it's your fault!" Heads I win, tails I claim to have won! As well as stupidly high salaries for being glorified bookkeepers can they also have RESPONSIBILITY for the decissions they make!
The CEO's of our councils (practentious joppinjays) the town clerks (when they achieved things) should also have RESPONSIBLITY and where there are poor ratings - the sack.
Who knows this may bring in good governance to councils, then we can use it on the real waste of space! Anyone for a public humillation of the AMs.
One poor da is "OUTRAGED" about her method of payment for her council tax, was she worried it would show as coming out of her AM expenses?
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I don't have much of a brief for the AM in question but I do think that everyone has the right to some privacy and the method of payment of your bills should be one of them.
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Yes I know some small countries are independent, yes I know some are very rich, yes I also know Wales is not independent, and yes, I know Wales is not rich.
All those places listed, especially Norway and Qatar are mineral rich, What has Wales got to offer the world?
Luxembourg is wealthy because it is hardly bigger than a postage stamp and is surrounded by much larger and wealthier Nations, the same goes for Switzerland, others have a variety of reasons to be better off than Wales.
So to sum up with a simple, but incisive, question, what has Wales to offer the world, that would secure it's independence?
I just love the dreamer brigade with their rose coloured specs, who see Wales as some sort of globally important nation in the waiting.
As for some other comments, yes I suppose the Welsh people will decide re the Assembly and WAG, but to be strictly fair THEY HAVE NOT BEEN ASKED AS YET, if they want their English based social order to be suppressed in favour of a Cymraeg dominant one.
NO matter how one looks at it, that is the way the trend is heading us.
The Assembly and WAG has thrust the language into the political arena at a express pace, it has put compulsory Cymraeg language education into every school, wanted or not, and for what purpose? not to benefit the general population of Wales, as the general population of Wales has shown, consistently, that is is just not interested, either in speaking Cymraeg or learning it.
Wherever the strength of English dominates an area, the waste is observed whenever the kids escape the school day, they immediately revert to English, to communicate with parents, neighbours and their non-Cymraeg literate friends.
The pressures brought to bear on the vast majority, via street signage,, advertisements, info boards in public places, et al, has hardly impacted on the uptake of the language, despite vast sums being thrown at the language, especially in the English speaking south east and border areas.
So, all you died in the wool nationalists, keep in mind, you have had a field day for many years now, and the overwhelming majority have had little say in the way things have moved in Wales, their day is about to come, it will be the nationalists and rabid language nuts who will find themselves back footed, for a change.
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#41 mapexx said:
"nationalists and rabid language nuts"
Comes close to racial discrimination, mapexx.
You clearly have a great dislike, if not hatred of the Welsh language, it comes through strongly in your comments. It appears that you somehow feel threatened by a language that has come close to extinction in the last quarter century. Obviously, you do not speak it, or have any desire to learn it, despite living in Wales.
Clearly, it is the language and its speakers who are threatened, by the increasing dominance of English. Yet one does not hear them using the kind of language you use.
Thankfully, by today, all the political parties in Wales are in support of the Welsh language, its development and preservation. They recognise its value and its uniqueness, which once lost cannot ever be regained.
"...the general population of Wales has shown, consistently, that is is just not interested, either in speaking Cymraeg or learning it."
Incorrect.
The demand for Welsh-medium education has increased to such an extent that the Times Educational Supplement reported in February 2007 that there are not enough schools to meet the demand, and the numbers are increasing. Cardiff being one city with a particular shortage of places. Thirty-one percent of parents in Newport said that they would send their child to a bilingual school, if one existed within 3km. There were 52,867 pupils in 458 Welsh-medium primaries in 2006. These schools do not cost the taxpayer any more than other schools.
Regarding road and street signage. What self-respecting country and people would tolerate their place names being only in another language? Try that on the Irish, the French or the Germans, indeed any nationality. If it were not for George Thomas' anti-Welsh attitude, then all Welsh names would appear above their English counterparts throughout Wales, for that was the government's intent. Thankfully the days of Secretaries of State for Wales, unelected by the people of Wales, and having such powers are at an end.
I'm no great fan of Rhodri, but he is a Welsh-speaking First Minister, elected as such by a democratic all-Wales Assembly. There were very few Welsh-speaking Welsh Secretaries, I can think of only three... Jim Griffiths, Cledwyn Hughes, and John Morris, all Labour. The Tory Secretaries were all from England, bar one, and he wasn't Welsh-speaking, if my memory is right.
You seem to live in a topsy-turvy world, mapexx, in which there is some sort of secret plan by the powers that be to make Welsh dominant in Wales. In truth, its the opposite. It will be an uphill struggle to ensure the language's survival, and it is far from certain that it will survive. If it does, it will be despite the efforts of individuals such as yourself, who it seems would dearly wish to witness its demise. I think you're a sad person.
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