Containing al-Shabab
It's 10 years since I covered my first Somali peace deal story. It was on a scorching hilltop in Djibouti and everyone was talking hopefully about how this, the 13th peace process I think, would finally end the anarchy and violence. It didn't and nor did the many deals that followed.
Somalia breeds pessimism more assiduously than any other country I've covered as a journalist. It is very tempting to conclude that this week's bombings in Uganda mark the beginning of a new, regionalised and increasingly dangerous stage in the conflict.
"The kaleidoscope has been shaken," was how one Western diplomatic source put it to me.
A bomb attack somewhere beyond Somalia's borders was almost inevitable. If an international naval taskforce patrolling the coast could not stop Somalia's pirates, then a dangerously under-resourced peacekeeping force in Mogadishu protecting an embattled and feuding transitional government was hardly going to contain al-Shabab. The organisation had made its intentions clear beforehand.
So what happens next? How should Somalia's neighbours and the wider international community respond?
The same, but better, seems the most likely answer, at least in the short term. As Ethiopia and the US have learned to their cost, heavy-handed foreign intervention in Somalia is unlikely to advance the cause of peace.
The trouble with the current carrot-and-stick approach has been that the stick is too short and weak, and the carrot too often ends up in someone's back pocket in Mogadishu.
Donors, regional and international, need to help beef up the African Union force in Mogadishu to its intended strength or beyond, and to accelerate the training of Somali troops in Uganda. "More needs to be done, and quickly," said the diplomatic source.
There has been talk for months of a big offensive against al-Shabab in Mogadishu. The Ugandan peacekeepers, sinews stiffened, may well feel more inclined to take robust action. But this is where the carrot starts to come into play.
There is no point in seizing territory if you can't keep it. Somalia's transitional government is hopelessly factionalised and weak, but it is the only show in town and it has had some success in forging alliances with other groups in Somalia. Somehow this needs to be encouraged and supported.
As this recent report spelled out, al-Shabab itself is not a united front. The Ugandan bombs are likely to encourage divisions in a group that seems increasingly torn between its original and purely Somali agenda, and the cause of global jihad.
Last year I made a couple of short trips to south and central Somalia, and met members of al-Shabab. It was clear then that the flood of foreign jihadists joining the group was a source of potential tension, which might now be exploited. Attacking Ugandan peacekeepers in Mogadishu can be squared with al-Shabab's nationalist agenda, but killing foreign civilians in Kampala reveals an entirely different, imported and alien ideology.
"If we're learning anything from other conflicts it is that you need to hold your nose and talk to the bad guys," said the Western diplomatic source. "This may be an opportunity to split off some of the more moderate elements."
An opportunity? Don't hold your breath, but Somalia needs to grab at every straw.
I’m 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~41~RS~)
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Dear Andrew Harding:
Most of the time the world suffers from the ill informed and wrongly understood causes and solutions taken for local/regional socio- political problems and projections made in the past.
The problems in Somalia and Eritrea are few of such examples. Somalia has a large boundary of ocean and neighbors which not only encourage but participate in training bad habits and global animosity--the Eritrean government, all help for such bad and ant-global activities that undermine the peaceful desires of coexistence and development of the human society at large.
In that turbulence neighborhood Ethiopia, that had access to the ocean through the red sea, used to be called Christian island by her neighboring Muslim countries. Therefore in order to make that part of the world be controlled by Islamic countries, one of the plan was to make the whole sea and ocean in that part of the world be owned by them or their sympathizers. Because of that, Ethiopia suffered an elongated war that was devised and financed by these countries to close her off from the red sea and make that part of water and land under their control for future trouble making which we are wittnessing now.
But for a failure of local and regional political understanding, the international community of powers made a decision that Ethiopia be land locked and gave the whole sea cost to a group which all along has a history of terror and natural affinity to conflicts and which gives a home of training, financing, armament and protection to the group now emerges as a global trouble maker in that region-al-shabab.
Clear sign of failure in identifying socio-psychological problems from socio-political ones and providing solutions accordingly, that would have been peaceful, stable and lasting.
These are among the many paradoxes the world faces in regards to belief, politics, ethnicity and harmonious coexistence. It is very sad and a tragedy that mankind still suffers collectively from groups which are stacked with illiterate members who do not even know why their religion and differences are good for, and practically denying the world from being a place of harmony of humans, reason and thinking.
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If the rest of the world makes it clear that any war against Somalia is clearly directed at Al-Shabab and not the Somali people then you won't find the same levels of support that Al-Shabab once had when the Ethiopians were on Somali soil (between 2006-2009). Most moderate Somalis have turned away in disgust with this backward group after witnessing the true face of Al-Shabab once the Ethiopians withdrew in 2009. I can’t speak for all Somalis but I feel that Al-Shabab can’t be reasoned with.
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Is this all the west knows? Divide and defeat? Can we teach an old dog new tricks? Divide and rule is just like eye for an eye. It is as medieval as the the tactics of Al-Qaida or the Shabab. What we need is fresh thinking. Get the Ethiopians out of the Somali territories in Ogadenia. Push for democracy and rule of law. Don't support apartheid of any kind no matter how freindly or close the perpetrators are. The west needs to show some inovation and leadership instead of always fighting old wars.
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Andrew, you are the best. For too long I have been dismayed by most Western reporters covering Africa. For the most part, they are nincompoops, who are either lazy and unprofessional or just plain clueless. You, on the other hand, know your subject matter very well. Moreover, you are objective, balanced, and rooted on reality than FICTION, as most Western reporters on Africa seem to be!!
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gabaldoon,
Sure gabaldoon!! Ogadenia, a land which has been part of Ethiopia for thousands of years is a Somalie land! Dir Sir, you and your buddies in Somalia have not been able to govern the land you already have. It is therefore preposterous to dream of more land!! The Question now is, maybe it's time to split Somaia into 3 different nations to be governed by countries who can, for Somalia as it exists is a complete failure!!
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Dear Andrew Harding,
As a journalism student, I find your article to be the most comprehensive and conclusive piece that's been written since this gruesome incident happened in Uganda.
Somalia is not a country that can be cured through putting a lot boots on the ground. We Somalis are acutely apprehensive about this tactic. We've seen how the mighty Ethiopians could not succeed in their mission, besides they are the ones who gave birth to Al-Shabab, so the world should blame Ethiopia and the U.S. for their blindly involvement in Somalia in 2006.
The Somali people had suffered immensely at the hands of warlords, Al-Shabab and mostly at the mercy of foreign intervention. When foreign countries are dealing with Somalia, they put their main interest first without looking at the interest of the Somali people. And as long as this custom continues, I am not wishing any way out for Somalia.
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Ethiopia is barely 100 years old. There was no such a country even a century ago let alone thousands of years. People confuse the city states of Axum and Abasinia with modern day Ethiopia. Even Richard Burton who travelled to Harar in 1850 wrote that Harar was at the western edge of the lands of tha Somal. He used the name Abysinia when refering to the tribes of the Amahara and Tigray. The Ogaden was given to ethiopia in 1948 and 1954. Since then it has been a source of tension and instability as Somali tribes tried to exploit what they saw as western bias toward Ethiopia for political gain. This eventually led to the collapse of the Somali state. Those same tribes hope to seal their pro-Ethiopian (and therefore pro-western) stand with a formal recognition as independent states. This, offcourse, drives many people nuts. The west should make it clear that they are not party to any shady deals involving the stealing of Somali lands or the break-up of the republic. Integrity and transparency would go a long way in reducing tension and mistrust in the Horn of Africa which exteremist groups exploit.
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No one has ever called Ethiopia a Christian Island. Ethiopia is, and always has been a Moslem majority land. The only person, who could use such a statement, could only be an ignorant orthodox priest who is out for collecting alms in other countries’ churches. This utterance indicates only a quest for sympathy by fabricating fake history.
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Hate, the powerful factor that hypnotically drives mankind whether consciously or not, is the true enemy that all mankind needs to fight. The only problem is that hate itself is a vicious cycle that often than not (unless through the intervention of a higher power than humanity itself) is a non releasing master.
With acts of terrorism in the name of Islam, comes a blanket hatred from the victims (especially when they are non-Muslims) of all who profess the faith, which in turn, justifies future attacks.
As far as I know, only one person in the history of mankind was truly able to break hates viscous cycle, and that was Jesus Christ. He has also been the most mis-represented, misquoted, and misunderstood by some of his followers.
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Thanks for all your comments. Are any of you writing from within Somalia? It would be great to hear from people in the country.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
10. At 10:12am on 16 Jul 2010, Andrew Harding BBC wrote:
Thanks for all your comments. Are any of you writing from within Somalia? [...]
++++++++++++++++++++
No. Are you?
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I don't know why Andrew You didn't mention Eritrea's government contribution for Somalia's instablity? It is the only government that helps Hizbul Islam and Alshebab indirectly. The UN security council imposed on Eritrea government sanction only because It helps the terrorists.As a journalist it is better to disclouse the fact.
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Harding is the man!! You get a balanced report from Mr. Harding. You get the good and the bad; that's is factual, reality based reporting, unlike many Western reporters on Africa who just focus on the negative or, worse, on fabrications by extreme elements in the oppostion parties.
Mr Harding, can you give Will Ross a pointer or two. He seems to just focus on the negative or just spread fabrications of the extreme elements in the African oppostion parties!!
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No, I am writing from the USA. Here again it is Ethiopia that armed the three rebel groups (SSDF, SNM, USC) that destroyed Somalia. It is Ethiopia that occupies Badme which is eritrean territory. It is Ethiopia that is supporting Somaliland (former SNM) and Puntland (fromer SSDF) in thier quest for independence. It is Ethiopia that refuses to hold free elections so the Oromo can get their share of power. It is Ethiopia that tortures political prisoners and curtails freedom of speech. yet, it is Eritrea that is slapped with UN sanctions! These are the issues that the exteremist groups "run on." This also explains why many people who used to live in the west went back to join these groups. Terrorists are essentially people who gave up on getting justice under the "western rule." Nothing drives people mad than playing favorites.
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gabaldoon,
Dear Sir, Ethiopia has held 3 elections in a row. Eritrea, on the other hand, which you are standing up for, has never held an election. To the contarary, Eritrea has not only refused to democratize but has also tried everyting it can to sabotage the development of democracy throughout the region by supporting terrorists to intimidate voters and politicians from participting in elections. Dear Sir, it is Eritrea which is terrorizing its own citizens and the citizens of the region, not Eththiopia. If U are Eritrean, I suggest to look into your own house for your problems!!
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Andrew Harding, your spot on about the situation in Somalia. However the short falls of the Somali situation has it's roots in 3 big factors.
1. The somali political system which is based on Clan-Politics in particular the so-called 4.5 formula, designed to balance and share representation and power in Somalia between the four main clan families (Dir, Darod, Hawiye and Rahanweyn), as well as five minority constituencies. Since the emergence of clan-politics from the previous reconciliation conference held in Djibouti in 2000 as main formula to establish any future government came with the decline of prospect of any good government coming to power. As if by design we can no longer elect credible people other than warlords and puppets who are not just agents of foreign countries but also illiterate therefore no longer is the case to elect individuals based on their skills or merit for position in power but based his/her clan.
This system of governance effectively has lead to election of governments that are weak on support inside and outside of the country and has no political credibility.
2. The lack of support from International community by that I don't mean AU as AU has done everything they can both logistic and man power. However very little support from G8 and UN security council. The best we had from UN security council is condemnation of Eritrea in Somali affairs however they failed to mention the proxy war that is still going on between Ethiopia and Eritrea fighting within Somalia.
3. The emergence of Al-Shabab which is a phenomena and never been seen in Somali political history and struggle to reestablish functioning Somali government. I believe once the two above issues are resolved both piracy and Al-Shabab can be tackled. We need more international support and good governance elected by the people, working for the people and not working for foreign governments and no Warlords in any future government the people who killed so many innocent women and children we are rewarding their actions in to political office rather than they should be tried at Hague.
If International community is serious and tries to acts now the Somali problem can be resolved and it doesn't have to end up like another Afghanistan or Iraq.
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Justineer!
A Somali that failed Somalia have no say for Ogaden, but I can tell you
I'm Ogadenian born in Galladi and I'm NO Ethiopian! our land was given away by Britain in 1954 Ethiopia have nothing to offer us but hunger+aids
Little to be proud of about Somalia today but Somalis are proud people
so called Somali government of Sheikh Sheriff whose even security guards
are Ugandan and Burundis just can't rule Somalia, neither can Somali army trained by Uganda secure Somalia! country needs proffesional army
selected from all different tribes and world sponsored reconcilliation
For Al-Shabaab, accept peace and nation or be fought off by Somali army
Ehtiopia, is oppurtunist of Somali anarchy a scavanger wanting nothing but divided and destroyed Somalia (like justineet above suggested!)
So strong Somalia won't return and repeat 1977 type war over Ogaden
(that when Somali army cleaned 98% of Ogaden in three short months!)
Thanks to you all.
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Maybe if all the Somali 'refugees' in western europe returned home with their experiences of freedom, democracy,lack of corruption, and human rights etc.etc, they might be able to 'convert' resident Somalians to the benefits of these basic rights. Democracy is certainly not perfect, but at least it doesn't kill anywhere as near as many people as autocratic rule, or anarchy. Somalis can't taste freedom, they can only see it on the TV. What is needed is a majority who have tasted it, and can spread the word. Foreign intervention just creates resentment - Somalia needs Somali intervention.
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Hello Alan,
I find it quite funny how you label all Somalis in Western Europe refugees. That's like labeling all Mexicans in the U.S illegal.
That being said, I do agree on one thing foreign intervention creates resentment and adds more fuel to the fire, but contrary to your belief I don't think that sending Somali 'refugees' back to Somalia will solve anything.
Gabaldoon made a great resolution for Somali: getting Ethiopia out of Ogadenia. Ethiopia has been the number one factor that made Somalia a failed state. The west turns their cheek to that and blames Al-Shabab.
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bintAbdullahi and gabaldoon..
Yes Ogadenia was the root cause of the Somali government failure. Yes we fought a war we couldn't win. Yes we lost that war against USSR, CUBA, Libya and Yemen not against Ethiopia. Yes we got defeated against what was at the time one of the biggest superpower (USSR). Not only we lost the war but we suffered an enormous defeat. On top of that nearly 1 million Ogadenia refuges entered our country looking for shelter and food. Imagine 1 Million refuges entering Somali at time when the government didn't have enough to sustain its own people plus the huge army we had to keep which bleed us dry in case Ethiopia Attacked Somalia in retaliation. Furthermore IMF withholding vital loans we deeply needed to rebuild not Army but the country because the whole world turned against us due to our illegitimate war that we had started with our neighbours. I am not saying Somalia didn't have the right to get back its own land but certainly could have tried other avenues pursed more diplomatic routes. Instead we chose war and we thought we could win until Soviet forces landed in Ethiopia and blocked our supply routes and surrounded our troops and then destroyed the best forces we had.
So since the 1 million refugees entering the country, lack of support from international community and government going into financial depression. The Somali state collapsed within itself and banks defaulted by the late 1980's and totally collapsed followed in 1991 with Army and Police disbanding and President chased out of the country by group of thugs who was hired by Ethiopia and backed by Ethiopia.
So fact of the matter to still be talking about Ogadenia after all that has happened is regrettable. We should focus on rebuilding Somali State and forget about Ogadenia completely. No is not the time for Ogadenia it is the time for Somalia Republic.
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Somali diaspora can come together and form political parties which in the near future can be used as political system which will replace the clan based political system. Once political parties have been created and political party leaders have been elected they should work together as one since we are in no time for fighting any political difference and work to establish a Somali state before it is too late. Just like the Tories and Liberal working together to form a coalition government here in the UK.
I believe only Somalis can solve the Somali problem and not the international community nor AU or UN or US troops landing in Somalia. Of course UN/AU troops will be required with the training of Somali Army and Police but we need credible leaders that people can believe in and support.
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When I blog I do not like it being moderated, come on guys what are you guy afraid of? ....The truth?
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to mohamed_shino
i disagree with your comments. regardless of ethiopia's occupation of ogadenia, the people of that region are somalis. and just like it hurts to see somalis getting killed in mogadishu, it hurts the same way to see those who are getting killed, raped looted in ogadenia. to forget about ogadenia means to disown and not to consider them somalis, so wether somalia finds peace or not the people of ogadenia will always play a role in somalia.
12. At 11:47am on 16 Jul 2010, Sung Hui v Tsai wrote:
10. At 10:12am on 16 Jul 2010, Andrew Harding BBC wrote:
Thanks for all your comments. Are any of you writing from within Somalia? [...]
++++++++++++++++++++
No. Are you?
yea are you mr hardening?
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To abubakr,
Yes I know the people of ogadenia are Somalis, I know the land is Somali land. The point I am trying to make is lets not get stuck in loop where we talk about ogadenia. We can't help ogadenia if we are stateless. Currently there is no Somali State. There is a talk of diving Somalia if that happens do you see ogadenia free or even joining Somalia. The answer is no. Current discussion shouldn't be about ogadenia but how do we solve the Somali problem. How do we get rid of Al-Shabab and how can we bring back Somali State! The time now is not about ogadenia. However the time now is about how we can bring back Somalia Republic.
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To My Somalie friends,
Ogadeneia has always been part of Ethiopia and it will always remain so!! STOP your pipe dreams about Ogadenia. It’s useless and counterproductive!! Re-writing History will never get you anywhere positive. If U really want to get deep down into History, you will find infact Somalia itself part of Ethiopia aka Abyssyania!! Second, it ‘s irrelelavent that the populace of Ogadenia are Somalies ethnically. They are still Ethiopians. Ethiopia has too numerous of ethnicities to list. Somalie just happens to be one of them. There are Oromos in Kenya and Ethiopia. But each have different nationalities as the Somalies of Somalia and Ethiopia. We have Italians extracts in America but they are American, not Italians. So STOP confusing nationality with ethnicity. They are two completely different things!!
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My dear friend justineet,
I disagree with you on this and you are mistaken. It is you who is mixing history and getting it completely wrong. Somalia was never part of Abyssyania. Please don't say things without little research. Google Abyssyania and you will know who they use to be.
"The Empire of Ethiopia and Eritrea, historically known as Abyssinia, was in what is now Ethiopia and Eritrea. At its height the empire also included Southern Egypt, Eastern Sudan, Yemen and Western Saudi Arabia and existed in various forms from 980 B.C. until 1974 when the monarchy was overthrown in a coup d'etat. It was in its time the oldest continuously existing state in the world [1][2], and the only African nation to successfully resist the Scramble for Africa by the colonial powers during the 19th century."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Empire
Somalia will never be part of Ethipia and never was please understand that concept.
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My dear friend justineet,
Regarding Ogaden, it was never part of Ethiopia until recently well in the 20th century. History tells us, "in 1948, under pressure from their World War II allies and to the dismay of the Somalis,[55] the British "returned" the Haud (an important Somali grazing area that was presumably 'protected' by British treaties with the Somalis in 1884 and 1886) and the Ogaden to Ethiopia, based on a treaty they signed in 1897 in which the British ceded Somali territory to the Ethiopian Emperor Menelik in exchange for his help against plundering by Somali clans.[56]
Britain included the proviso that the Somali nomads would retain their autonomy, but Ethiopia immediately claimed sovereignty over them.[51] This prompted an unsuccessful bid by Britain in 1956 to buy back the Somali lands it had turned over.[51] Britain also granted administration of the almost exclusively Somali-inhabited[57] Northern Frontier District (NFD) to Kenyan nationalists despite an informal plebiscite demonstrating the overwhelming desire of the region's population to join the newly formed Somali Republic.[58]"
All very well documented here for further research if needed:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia
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A great discussion everyone. thanks binti. Mohamed shino you are a fighter worthy of the Sayid. What I am saying is that Somalia whitout Ogadenia has been tried and it failed. It just does not work. Even if we ignore it that does not mean the war will stop. sooner or later it will draw us in. Besides why do you think is everone in the horn so miserable while kenya,Uganda and Tanzania are stable? No major conflict! Ogadenia is a big country the size of Uganda! Ehtiopians cannot trade with Somalia because we hate each other. How many Ethiopians used to live in Mogadishu? Hardly anyone. they spend everything they have on the military and so we did. Instead Kenya built the rail to central Afrika in the 60s. Ethiopia has one of the richest farmlands in Africa but not a grain used to go to Somalia. Mengestu justified his rule for so long because he was defending the country from Enemies. What enemies! And siad barre was able to overthrow the goverment because they were weak on Somaliweyn (somalilands). All the military brass including Kulmiye Afrah, Samatar, Gabayre, Abokor agreed. Unless we resolve this problem forget about Somalia or Ethiopia and even Eritrea. This problem runs deeper than people think. It is for the good of all of us to find a solution. gabaldoon@yahoo.com
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Andrew Harding BBC: To Your Question Yes. But Mostly Phone Conversation is more offen done than writing from or to one another.
[Personal details removed by Moderator]
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Dear Andrew,
You have done it, and I suppose it was inevitable. Oh dear...Somalia!
The apprehension of the world community to intervene in Somalia is quite understandable. The Somali quagmire of tribes, clans, jihadists, Islamists, moderates et infinitum, can leave the most hardy diplomat running for cover. I am myself currently based in the Middle East and have been fortunate to be able to make friends with quite a number of Somali’s. They are hopeless, they do not support international interference, they do not acknowledge the legitimacy of the Transitional Federal Government, they do not support either islamist groups Al-Shabaab or Hizbul Islam, and to be honest I can’t really blame them since all of these have brought only further loss of life and suffering for the average Somali citizen.
Most Somali’s do not want any International military interference in Somalia, we can see this all through the 90’s with UNSOM1, and the failed UNITAF and its ‘Operation Restore Hope’ which ended in failure after the US Troops launched the battle for Mogadishu to capture Mohamed Farrah Aidid in 1993. Following UNSOM2 was formed, and was seen by Mohamed Farrah Aidid as a threat to his power which led to further attacks on UN Forces until due to many causalities to civilians and UN Staff alike ‘Operation Restore Hope’ was withdrawn. Aidid was killed in 1996 which left a power vacuum. And the continues battles of factions for control of Mogadishu.
Bring to the fore Al-Shabaab and Hizbul Islam, in Mogadishu these 2 Groups are united against the Transitional Federal Government (TFG) and the UN. In the south of Somalia they oppose one another in a raging civil war. Most in Somalia, and the Somali Diaspora do not acknowledge the legitimacy of the TFG. Seeing them as a puppet government put in place by the UN and US. And the TFG does not really enjoy much authority limited to small parts in Mogadishu and surrounding central areas, and protected by the underfunded and understaffed AU Force.
Add to the mix the ongoing piracy of the coast of Somalia, and their own ‘business interests’. The semi autonomous region of Puntland remains lawless and is a haven for Pirate Clans.
Somaliland, now there is model. They have done extremely well, they are an inspiration to the rest of Somalia, and is relatively very stable. The best part is they got to be here all by themselves.. Unfortunately the world community does not recognize their independence, and they for the most part do not want to form part of a peaceful Federal Somalia. I think this might be a start to bringing stability to the Horn of Africa through international support and recognition of Somaliland. If Somalia cannot function as a united country at peace with itself, then the only available option I feel is the support and development of those regions such as Somaliland, that want peace and stability, and then work on the rest of the country once different factions and the Somali people at large are committed to a peaceful solution to their differences.
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To gabaldoon,
I disagree with you on this point regarding Ogaden. We have to accept the facts on the ground. However ugly or distasteful they maybe.
1. Ogaden is not part of Somalia. They are part of Ethiopia. Even if you ask Ogaden now will you join Somalia they will say certainly not. What will make them say that just look at Somalia. A country ripped apart their people still fighting after 20 years and can't move forward. On top of that we have serious enemies trying to prevent any greater Somalia ever emerging since they were responsible for its destruction. So that fact is even Ogaden don't want to join Somalia when Somalia is at this condition.
2. The country has fallen a part. Somaliland wants separate Nation and I really don't blame them after all the success they had on their own. Puntland is just a matter of time for them to say hey we don't see a future in greater Somalia remember both regions (Puntland and Somaliland) are very close in trade with Ethiopia ( Note: Ethipia is a land locked country they need access to the Sea. Therefore keep close ties with Puntland and Somaliland) and take their orders from their masters in Ethiopia since they *Ethiopia helped them became more stable and supported their cause while they were part of Republic of Somalia. These are fact and history.
3. To be still talking about 1948 and 1977 when Somalia lost Ogaden land and lost the War to great Super Power means we can't see the reality on the ground and the dangerous looming:
a- Islamist groups or shall I say the Fitna groups which consist of Al-Shabaab, Hizbul Islam and their foreign friends Al-Qaeda are running around the country with great number, financial support, working in well organised fashion against a weak feeble government that doesn't control few streets in Mogadishu. So look at the fact is this time for talk about Ogaden!! Really are we in position to talk about Ogaden. No certainly not. Lets not lose sight of the real dangerous. At the moment Somalia is in BIG whole. One so difficult to get out of. We can only hope and hope the people wake up before it is too late for everyone's sake.
b- Those top Military brass you talk about Kulmiye Afrah, Samatar, Gabayre, Abokor including Sayid Barre have done nothing nothing what so ever good for the country. Once they lost the support of the people after the big defeat from 1977 war and once they lost the support of the international community. They cliched into power even more and killed innocent women and Children and prisoner political activist that opposed them. They torched Somalia at a time when the political and social situation in Somalia was dripping with benzene. They should have stepped down and let free election take place. That way International help could have come in time. Plus the country could have been more stable but when they realised they can't stay in power they start the distruction of Somalia both Miltary and Police. So lets not praise these people they have done enough damage and got us where we are today.
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I agree with the assessment given by the U.S government that says the group are a racist group (sorry i lost the BBC link) http://www.kbc.co.ke/story.asp?ID=65276 The top brass in Al-shabab are Arabs and they look down on black Africans. I read the statement they released after the bombings; they don't care about how many Africans they kill. All governments need the required wisdom to deal with this situation as swiftly as possible.
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I don't know but people need to do their research and find out what is going on. I don't think the bombing in Uganda is racial motivation. It is more sinister and danagerous that just an idea about racial or racisim. If you look at the group Al Qaeda and done enough research about this group you will find hidden agenda why they exsist. Please should google "Al Qaeda does it exist" and then click on the BBC youtube video and documentary made by BBC.
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mohamed_shino,
You are a little off with your History. The fact is Ogadenia was part of Ethiopia since 1897, since the last quarter of the 19th century, when Menilik 2(Abysssinia/Ethiopia) conquered the region; Ogadenia has been part of Ethiopia since the 1987 treaty. The region was however temporarily under control of Italians after the Italians invaded Ethiopia. As a result the British in cahoots with the Italians tried to join Ogaden with British Somlialand and Italian Somaliland to form what they called the ‘the Greater Somalia’ in 1940s. But due to their stand’s lack of merit and Ethiopia’s(Emperor Haile Selasie’s) solid diplomacy internationally, the British were forced to abandon their unjustified aim in 1948. In short, Ogadenia was part of Ethiopia way before 1948, when the British abandoned their effort to annex Ogadenia.
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justineet,
Sure you can rewrite history if you like.. As far as I am concerned there is no treaty in 1987 "Ogadenia has been part of Ethiopia since the 1987 treaty" What treaty I have never heard fo such treaty. Please bring facts and your sources to the table when you talk about History!!
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mohamed_shino,
Sorry I meant to say the treaty of 1897, not 1987. The fact is Ogadenia was part of Ethiopia even prior to 1897, way, way prior to 1897.That part of the land, including Ogadenia was conquered by the Axumite Kingdom around 1450s by Emperor Zere Yacob of Ethiopis/Absyssinia. That is over 500 years ago. The 1897 treaty between the British and Menlik 2 was just an acknowledgement of this hisorical fact. The fact that Ogaden was part of Ethiopia now for over 500 years. I am kind tight with time to give you sources now. But I will do so soon, just check back in a couple of days.
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Shino, you are determined to dismiss the Ogaden question for some reason. Ogadenia is allmost as big as the south. When you say let us forget about it, to me it means let us forget about Southern or northern Somalia. Besides, I did not say they have to join Somalia. I said solve the problem so that our resources don't go to war, both Ethiopia and Somalia. Remove the enemity whatever it takes. The trade that goes on now is only a trickle compared to what could happen if the problem was solved. And it is done to reward the leaders of the tribes that support Ethiopia (Isaaq, Hawiye and Majeerteen) in its subjugation of other Somalis. These people have blood on their hands. This is the corruption that feeds resentment and anger. This is part of the cycle of greed, corruption, resentment, war, terrorism, big military and poverty that plagues us forever. This is the policy that taints all our leaders as dictators and traitors. If the leadership is bad then it is okay to fight them is the logic of the rebel. I am saying remove the stigma as much as possible.
I said that is why siad barre came to power, not that he was good.
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Shino, you are saying let us hurt the Ogaden as long as the Isaq, Majeerteen and Hawiye live in peace and prosperity! That is the tribal mindset that is destroying the horn. I am saying it is not an either or situation.
Justneet, You can busy yourself with history or qoute illiterate abysinian kings all day, or you can think about the reality we are facing. To say that Ogadenia is part of Ethiopia is to ignore what the people of Ogaden are and what they are saying. That means that your people are better than the Ogadenis and we should listen to you. That is when one group of people are deemed better than others. It is called racism. The fact that you are black does not mean anything if we live in a system that officially recognizes you as the better person. It is like the slavery in America. The courts did not recognize the word of the slave and he did not own anything. The right thing to do is to say there has been a mistake. We were given land that belongs to our brothers and they should decide what they want to do. Ethiopians would loose Ogadenia but they would gain their self respect as proud Africans. And in my opinion there is nothing more important than this.
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gabaldoon,
Why in the hell would we give up Ogadenia which has been part of Ethiopia for over 500 years?? You are total, complete nuts! Second, the Ethiopian Somalis don't want to be part of any other country beside Ethiopia! They love Ethiopia as any other Ethiopian!! Ethiopian Somalis are treated fairly and equally now unlike in the past, which was a time of ill-treatment of most Ethiopians regrdless of ethnicity. So, just give up your useless pipe dream. Stop your war mongering madness!!
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@Justineet
If ogaden or(Somali west) people are treated equally, then how come Ethiopian government commits countless massacres every day in the regions, rape innocent mothers and kill almost anyone speculated to have links with the freedom fighter. And don't even get me started on your claims regarding Ethiopia ruling the state over 500 years, pure fictional phenomena - don't quite understand how a country which only existed for 1 century only can rule another region for over 500 years.
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gabaldoon,
Point 1 - I never said anything of the sort "saying let us hurt the Ogaden as long as the Isaq, Majeerteen and Hawiye live in peace and prosperity! That is the tribal mindset that is destroying the horn. I am saying it is not an either or situation." You are saying that not me.
Point 2 - I never think with that mindset I am against that mindset which is why I am against the mindset of clan-politics 4.5 formula. So please don't put words in my mouth that I didn't say. All I said is the facts. Ogaden is not part of Somalia today. They are part of Ethiopia. You and I may not like that fact but it is a fact we must accept. The sooner Somalis accept the facts on the ground and stop talking like they are in dream world the better.
Point 3 - The fact we are still talking about Ogaden means you still haven't realised the gravity of the situation we are in. We are fighting our last breath. It is now or never the longer we talk about Ogaden the hard it is for us to focus on the real issues on the ground. Which is the Fitna group Al-Shabaab, Hizbul Islam and their foreign friends Al-Qaeda. This is the real problem Somalis must unit to fight against also the trible mentality. We must bury that Medieval way of thinking. Look where it got us. We are literally 100 year behind the rest of the world on everything.
Point 4 - This forum and this article is not about Ogaden. So please stop talking about Ogaden. If you want to talk about Ogaden lets take it offline and talk about it on another platform. This article is about "Containing al-Shabab" hence lets not lose focus on that.
Point 5 - You say I said "let us hurt the Ogaden as long as the Isaq, Majeerteen and Hawiye live in peace and prosperity! That is the tribal mindset that is destroying the horn. I am saying it is not an either or situation." As discussed before I didn't say that but it is not as if Isaq, Majeerteen and Hawiye live in peace and prosperity or any other tribe the whole of Somalia don't live in peace and prosperity! what a lot of nonsense. Please are you serious about that comment. Somalia in case you didn't wake up from your dream world are terrorised by a group of thugs. Women and children are harassed and tortured. Children are turned into child solider. Women are stoned to death. So please don't tell me they live in peace and prosperity! These people need our help need the international communities help. We need to come together to help these innocent people. Somalis would rather talk about nothing and agree to disagree. However talking about Ogaden will not help these people. We need to put our house in order before we talk about other problems. Lets not mix Ogaden and Somali problem. There are two issues. Lets focus our sights on Al-Shabab, Piracy, Stable Government and helping the Somali people who live in Somali Land not in Ethiopia and then we can start talking about Somalis who live in other lands and the problems they have and how we as whole can fix it but as I said many times now is not the time.
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Jababir, stop your ONLF inspired usual propoganda. The truth is it's ONLF, so called freedom fighters, who are terrorizing their own people in order to turn the people against the Ethiopian government. It's well documented ONLF has burnt down villages, destroyed public properties such as water stations and schools built for the people. They have attacked and killed in the past Ethiopian Somali construction workers while building roads for the people. All these evil deeds against their own brothers and sisters were done hoping it would weaken the support of the populace for the Ethiopian government. But they failed meserably! Instead their evil terrorist acts against their own people have turned the Ethiopian Somalis against them more than ever and the support for the government to eradicate these 19h century barbarians has never been stronger!
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Somalia is not a nation at all. It is an amalgamation of rivalrous clans, religious animosity i.e sufi and suni islam, and with no national identity. If Somalis can proudly call themselves 'Somalis' in exiles - why then are they are not caring for their homeland. Look, there are no people on Earth like Somalis who have scattered all over the world: in US, Europe, Middle East, Africa, North America and even south America. Imagine, it is hardly believable to see that they don't see their motherland as their home but 'abroad' as their heaven. It is unfortunate that they are fighting an unending wars of no purpose. At the time when Ethiopians invaded, they abandoned their clanic fighting and fought together as brothers and sisters to defend their land. When Ethiopians left, they resorted to forming alliance with al Qaeda and developing religious wars - why on Earth can al Shabab and Isbul Islam claim to be fighting for??? Religion, No; Clanism, No; Independence, from who? government, How? It is a joke. I have known somalis for so long. SOMALIA WILL NOT HAVE A STABLE PEACE UNLESS THE SOMALIS IN DIASPORA COME BACK HOME.
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dAnq YoAnq
Your spot on but we cant just came back home and then became victims of Al-Shabab. We have to do it the right way but I hear you I know what your saying and I agree with you.
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justineet,
For Ogaden history you don't have to go no further. Just google "Ogaden" and you will get the Wiki page. On there you will see the clear history since 13 and 14th Century history forget about 1897 read what happened before that.
Here is the link. It looks like I broke house rules by writing the history in detail but I will just give you the link :) hop this time it doesnt get censored!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogaden
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mohamed_shino,
I assure U Ogadenia was part of the Axumite Kingdom much early on already in the 15th century. Just look into the Axumtie Kingdom history and you will find that's true. The only significant thing that happened after that regarding Ogadenia, besides Siyad Bare's attempt to take over the territory, was an effort by the British to anexx Ogadenia and join it with British Somaliland. But that effort also failed just like Siyad Bare's. In this case because as I said of Haile Selassie's dimplomatic efforts and Ethiopia's legitimate stand on the issue based on hisotrical facts. I will give U a link on that proves that. One think about wiki is that many times it's not accurate. Some of those entries are made by biased political hacks.
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mohamed_shino,
I read the link you gave me. It proves my point that Ogadenia has been part of Ethiopia at least since 1897 without question. But I don't believe tells the whole story. Tha Adal Kingdom was not as powerful as Wiki portrays it. The Adal Kingdom infact was defeated much earlier on by the Axumite Kingdom than what wiki says. Ogadenia infact has been part of the Axumite Kingdom since the 15th century contrary to what it says on wiki. I shall give the REAL history of the Axumite Kingdom soon. But even if U go just by what wiki says, Ogadenia has been part of Ethiopia since the late 1800s.
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mohamed_shino stop living in denial.
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In short here is what you said:
Shino: Freedom of the people of Ogaden is important but you have other priorities, Like the peace of Somalis who by sheer luck found themselves free. So, your answer is no or I don't have time. What do you think is happening in Moagdishu? They are saying "peace for Mogadishu is important but they have other priorities.
Justineet: I would rather believe what was written 500 hundred years ago than listen to what millions of Africans who live in misery are saying right now. So your answer is also no.
Well, the votes are in and WAR it is. Let us not blame the leaders or the west anymore. We have seen the enemy and they are US.
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sagat4,
The problem is Somalis are living in denial when they don't accept facts on the ground. God helps but if we don't wake up and face the music now it may not be at all possible later on the future. 1 other thing gabaldoon you keep not mentioning Al-Shabab and they horrific actions, you keep dismissing them as if they are the good guys or they don't exist. I don't think it bothers you so your not interested in that problem your more interested in another problem Ogaden! Like we can do something about this problem!! You keep telling yourself Somalis live in peace and prosperity! You keep telling yourself Somalis are free! You can keep telling yourself that when you wake up every Morning.. You keep talking about Ogaden and ignore Al-Shabab and their Mafia friends who support them. The sooner people wakeup from this dream like state world you live in and stop singing from the same sheet of Al-Shabab. The sooner we can do anything to resolve Somalis problems. I can only warn you to wakeup and realise what is going on before it is too late.
We live in at time of Information warfare. We are constantly bombarded with disinformation and distraction from the real truth and real problems people should focus on. Your distraction from Al-Shabab only confirms one thing. Your either a sleep or you understand what is going on and don't want people to focus on Al-Shabab.
Either way people need to wakeup and focus their energy on things we can make a difference on and not the affairs of other countries and other lands.
Final note: Somali has done a lot for Ogaden, we trained them gone to War with them. A War costing Somalia its sovereignty. It is time for Ogaden to payback and send their best ONLF troops to Somalia take down Al-Shabab. They got the best training from Somali Military at time when Somalia was the best force in Horn and all of Africa. So payback Ogaden send us your best guys to take down Al-Shabab we need their support and efforts now more than ever. They need to stand shoulder to shoulder with Somalia. The fact of the matter is it is Somalis that need Ogaden help not the other way round. It like asking a man on his death bed to help you defend against your enemy. The question is how can he help you when he is on his knees dying from a bullet he already took to save you.
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gabaldoon,
You have a backward, war mongering mentality. There is no place for such bakward thinking no more.
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To understand what is going on in Somalia and the rest of the world you need to educate yourself about History. The problems we face today and the solutions are out there for us to identify. It is hidden in plain sights. We just need to figure out what is going on and how we are played against each other.. It is very clear and it has been happening for Centuries.
If you want to begin to understand what is happening today and the past and how the world we live in today was shapped you need to not look no futher than the money masters of the world we live in. Search on google the term "Money Masters" - documentary by Bill Sill. The same people financed communism and Nazi are behind "al qaeda, al shabab, drug lords in South America and the rest of the Mafia Warloards."
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The truth look no futher than the money masters of the world we live in. Search on google the term "Money Masters" - documentary by Bill Sill.
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google the term "Money Masters"
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Hey truthseeker interesting Documentary man and still a good watch. I see the same problem in Somalia but our money changers in Somalia are not the Federal Reserve Bank :). We have different crooks who have monopoly on Money. They have the power to print Money and exchange money. When people from Somali diaspora send money back home they send $ dollar or £ pounds or which ever money they use in the country they live in. When that money reaches their loved one. They can't use that money. They have to exchange that money with worthless paper money that only works in Somali economy. They will get what ever the market rate is for Somali currency equivalent to dollar or pounds and this rate has nothing to do with world market. In fact it is not part of the world currency exchange rate. They decide what the rate should be..So when the people have Somali currency they can go out and buy food or goods or do business. Basically the money changers are taking dollar and pounds from Somali diaspora and giving back to their relatives Somali currency which is basically worthless and is not under the control of Somali Government. Plus they charge small interest from Somali diaspora for sending the money. So if you send $100 dollars, they take 100 dollars + interest sound familiar :). Imagine how many people send money back home everyday. Remember there is no Central Bank in Somalia and there is no chamber of commerce. These people have to pay commission to be able to continue to do business. Who else they pay commission to ofcourse who ever can protect them. Before it was the warlords. Now it is Al-Shabab. Al-Shabab provide protection and in return take commission on how ever much the money changers in Somalia make. This is how they are able to finance their wars and never ending weapon circulation in Somalia.
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Who are Al-Shabab?? Wow! another Politically Correct report from the BBC. Don't mention the religion when it is "Islam" and blame everything on the US.
Next Please.
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Dinesh Patel,
What an earth are you talking about. Nobody is blaming US on anything. The article is about Al-Shabab if you don't know who they are fair enough. However the reason why this Article doesn't mention Islam cause it has nothing to do with Islam. Al-Shabab are not Muslims they just pretend to be Muslims. What kind of Muslim kills another Muslim for what? In fact it is Haram to Kill anybody not just a Muslim. So it has nothing to do with religion nor Islam. It has everything to do with Al-Shabab and their supporters Al-Qaeda ONLY!
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mohamed_shino - thanks for proving my point. The BBC agree with you, that's the worst problem, they show Bias. Do you think they really take that angle for any other religion?
Your post just proves the brainwashed mentallity and infidelphobia that exisits. This is why groups such as Al-Shabab exist today.
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African leaders should take what Al Shabab did in Uganda few days ago, in to their accounts of taking serious responsibility.
Somalian militian can n't of course defeat African leaders at all cost in case international community fail to respond.
Am sure,we will defeat them becouse all in all,they are all muslim to make it easy.
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Dear Bloggers,
It seems things are lost in translation. The purpose of Mr. Harding's article is to discuss how to contain al-shabab, not recite history. al-shabab is a group with no redeeming value. Somalies should work together to eradicate it. Unfortunately, it seems many of them have taken their eyes off the ball. Rather than tackling the ever unfolding crisis in their country that is a total embarrassment, they are still talking about Ogaden. That's just appalling. Get a life. Every country on the planet has had shifting borders. You should pick up history books and see how every country on earth has had its borders expanding and contracting throughout history. That is just a part of human existence. Ogaden has been and will continue to be a part of Ethiopia. That is not going to change, and the continued insistence to break Ogaden away will simply be a drain on the resources of both countries - resources that are much needed for development. Thus, focus the task at hand of putting Somalia back together, chopping it into pieces, or whatever else works to get a terrorist state back on track to make it a contributing member of the planet.
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PKetema,
You right somalis have taken their eyes off the ball and I agree with you with most of what you have said. However chopping it into pieces will not resolve anyone's problems. In fact it will create many problems, create mini Ogaden all shouting and wanting something different. Best thing for Somalia is to stay intact and find a solution for all Somalis and not just the idea of chopping it in pieces. All I know is the day Somalia is chopped into pieces is the day Horn of Africa has signed its death warrant and destruction. Somalis will not go down quietly that is a fact look at History! So lets not consider that an option at all.
Now instead to reach a stability and peace for the whole region and much needed in Somalia a solution must be found for ALL of Somalia including Somaliland. What ever success Somaliland have had, International Community will not grant their wish if that is what they waiting for. I tell them they have waited long enough and their support is vitally needed on the ground. Somaliland have shown leadership, determination and will that south of Somalia lacks today. We need their leadership and support to help us defeat Al-Shabab cause what is happening in the rest of Somalia is happening on their backyard. What is burning is the houses of their fellow brothers and sisters and sooner or later the fire will reach their house.
They have to stop the mentality "oh Ethiopia will protect us from Al-Shabab!" Ethiopia will not and cannot. So their only hope is to put out the fire now while they can and before it is too late for them. In regards for them to gain independence it just won't happen, lets face it the world would not recognise their independence as the situation still stands with reset of Somalia if that was the case they would have got it by now. The problem is Somaliland are still in period of honeymoon, flattered with their success, in denial and are still high fiving themselves with what they have achieved which is great but however much they do International Community will not grant them independence since it has been 20yr now and still no success on that front. They better wake up and accept their reality and begin to help their brothers and sister in struggle unprecedented to take control. Plus the road ahead for them will only get more difficult for them if they continue in this path and I don't think they realised what could be down the road if they are by themselves specially with threat of Al-Shabab looming on their backyard. Somaliland needs rest of Somalia and rest of Somalia needs Somaliland.
If a stable government is formed and Somaliland still wants independence. We will thank them for their support and I am sure the rest of Somalia will not force their brothers to stay in Republic, specially if Somaliland don't want to be in Republic. We may end up at that stage a two state Somalia that maybe something International Community could accept and rest of Somalia but rest of the world will not accept independence now with current status quo. Therefore I urge Somaliland politicians and people to change their mind and strategy now when rest of Somalia and International Community deeply needs their leadership in solving the Somali crises.
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Are You sure the bombings were done by Al-Shabab.
Next year there is a presidential election in Uganda were the current president/dictator is lagging, and if I were Al-Shabab I would have bombed one of the hotels or restaurants owned by President Yoweri Museveni were there also were lots of spectators during the World Cup game.
Al-Qaida could not exist without funding, which most likely comes from the middle east Saudi Arabia etc.
There is no chance that the current world terrorists are not supported by the legalized criminals called security forces be they western or from the middle east or China/Russia.
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Mohamed Shino,
Thank you for your thoughtful comments. I appreciate your insight regarding the need to keep Somalia together. More importantly, I am glad that we can have a civilized conversation that is based on rationality and reason, rather than blind passion. The rebuilding of Somalia, and Africa in general for that matter, must start with every village. The mentality that somehow wealth will flow from some clan/tribe gaining independence or being reunified with another is a pipe dream. Prosperity has a remarkable way of creating a community and, therefore, unifying people, but it requires focus and hard work. Somalies should ask themselves what legacy they are leaving their children and whether al shabab is helping them get there.
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For an indepth look at the Somali pirates, see the forthcoming book, Pirate State: Inside Somalia's Terrorism at Sea, available at Amazon.
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