Banking's big bonuses: Are they justified?
It's been a year since the banks started to collapse on both sides of the Atlantic. But now it's
being reported that big bonuses are back for bank staff.
"Rescued bank's traders scoop £1.8bn bonuses" is the Guardian's recent headline about the Royal Bank of Scotland.
In The Times: "Analysts estimate that, barring a major setback, the average London worker at Goldman will receive about $748,000 (£467,000) in salary and bonuses - 13 per cent higher than 2007 and more than double the 2008 average."
The One Show's Adam Shaw (pictured) has been looking at the reports that it's boom-time for bankers once again.
Former stockbroker Geraint Anderson told Adam: "The banks are making profits from the crisis they created. It's outrageous that the banks that were bailed out last year are being allowed bonuses."
But Mickey Clark from the Evening Standard said to him: "... capitalism is based on banking - and if the banks don't work then capitalism collapses... so in effect banks can't be allowed to fail, but we, us lot, have to pay the money back".
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~23~RS~)
Comments
If the banks can give so much away in bonuses, such a large percentage of their profits, doesn't this imply their fees are too high? And if all the banks can get away with charging high fees then it implies there's too little competition.
This further implies that they are operating as a cartel - which is theoretically illegal.
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That report has made me so angry, not because of you guys but because of the response of one of the bankers who spoke on camera. For him to respond by saying he works hard so he deserves his huge bonus is ridiculous quite frankly!
I work as a teacher and deal with students ranging from age 12 to 18 on a daily basis. We deal with child protection issues, anger, violence, act as parents, help them deal with issues and do we get a big bonus every year?! All the bankers do is invest OUR money in places we don't know about financing who knows what and then charge us for the service which we didn't ask for in the first place.
It's about time the government realised who their key workers are such as nurses,doctors, police and fire service personel who risk their lives on a daily basis and reward them instead of lining the pockets of these greedy sods!
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Please will SOMEONE mention the ABPI the governing body that regulates the Pharmaceutical (Drugs & Medicines) industry.
Drug reps are NOT ALLOWED to earn a significant part of their earnings from bonuses because if they did then reps would use unethical ways to promote and mis-sell drugs to doctors.
The UK already regulates one industry ..... why can't we apply to same rules to another multi billion pound industry?
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There is only one way to get our fair share of the bankers bonuses and profits -- TAX THEM!
Annie Robinson
Huddersfield
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I am incensed by bankers having the cheek to take such large bonuses year on year. As a serving member of the Armed Forces I receive a commitment bonus between four and eight years service. In return for this bonus I commit to a further year. Apart from that the only time we receive any type of bonus is on return from operational tours. Given the present climate, is it any wonder that there is bad feeling towards bankers taking huge sums but contributing very little in comparison to our Armed Forces, stretched to it's limits but getting comparatively little in return.
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absolute disgrace and we the general public are taken as idiots by the banks and the government....just how much longer does this farce continue. I have just set up my own business and get 0% interst of my small deposit to date, wonder how much the banks are making on profit from my money....its simply creating or confirming the two tier state we live in,,,,,, no doubt they are slurping champers in the City Pubs tonight having a good laugh !!!!!!!! think I will vote the the Monster Raving Lunatic Party....cant be much worse ???
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I work for one the banks helped out by the government. In the past year my income has dropped by £13k (overtime/bonus and incentives) even though the part of the company i work in actually made a profit. these fat cat bankers who caused the problem make me sick so i can really understand why people in the street feel so strongly against the banking section - just remember we are not all tarred with the same brush!!!
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The stock market started the year at such a low that a blindfolded monkey could have easily made millions.
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If the Banks are paying out huge bonuses, shouldn't they first be using that money to pay back the government (i.e the tax payer.
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Why can't the banks pay back the money they happily took from us tax payers first? Surely that would be the sensible thing to do. After they have paid back THEIR debts then they would be free to have bonuses again, and we wouldn't feel too agrieved.
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My daughter's friend works in a bank in Cornwall and her bonuses have been stopped. Sne now earns £13000 a year (instead of £18000). For this she has to go between several branches, open up the bank and closed down each evening. I think the 'ordinary' workers should receive the bonuses.
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I work at a further education college with some of the lowest paid workers in the country. We feel that public service workers are being made to pay for the mistakes of our bankers, whilst the bankers get a slap on the wrist and bonuses. How is that fair?
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Please spare a thought for those of us that do work for one of the BIG banks but by no means get the big bonuses - yet we're being tarred by the same brush!!! We're UK tax payers too and being penalised by those greedy chiefs high up the food chain....that are still benefiting by the way. "Fred the shred" may be gone but those who really created the damage are still there and trying to tell us 'work horses' to do even more for less money and still trying to make ends meet.
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Surely if we (Gordon Brown)loaned the banks, and LOANED is the key word, then the banks should repay us! It's simple. If they have a profit from using OUR money, then the PROFIT should be ours.
Get it back Gordy!
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Why don't the Government make the banks repay the money? If we borrow money we have to pay it back, why don't the banks?
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I think the annoying thing for me is that the bankers talk about how they didn't cause the problem so why should they not get their bonuses - well car plant workers did not cause the problem so why should they lose their jobs? Public sector workers did not cause the problem so why should their pay be frozen if the conservatives get in? The staff at Woolworths did not cause the problem so why should they now be unemployed? The banking industry staff are missing the point, they work in an organisation who has failed badly so they just should not get bonuses - that is basic business - it is not about punishing them or saying we own the banks, it is just basic business - it is rarely the employees fault when companies fail but not having bonuses seems to be accepted except for in the banking industry - and we HAVE to trust these people with our money! The NHS in Wales has a £200million blackhole - all banking bonus money could be invested there - as if there is money for bonuses then it should go into the public pot.
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Are big banking bonuses justified. Absolutely not. It is one of the largest British banks that is forcing me out of business. Had a small overdraft on my guest house for the past 7 years to help me through the winter months and now that has been withdrawn despite the best summer ever and great forward bookings. Where is the justification in that? Worthing Landlady.
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I think bankers bonuses are disgusting. As well as a banking sector to 'protect' our money we need a military service to protect our lives!! where are the big fat bonuses for the guys and girls who are being paid 17k per year risking their lives and being shot at on a daily basis in Afgan whilst the big fat bankers sit in the plush offices!! DISGUSTING!!!
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not all bankers receive huge bonus i work in the front line at branch level, we do get bonus but have to jump through hoops to get them, we do not get annual pay rises or cost of living rises our pay is performance related, last year i was awarded a £5000 bonus after exceeding all my targets, this was pulled one week before payment. it is now spread of 3 years not available until 2010 and suject to 50% clawback over each of the three years. during the last year we have seen our pensions reduced now no bonus, and the share save options and shares we hold not worth a light (by the way if we dont hit our targets we are disiplined and could be sacked for underperformance!! great life being a banker isnt it?
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On the one hand it's good that the banks are making profits because it shows they're working efficiently.However those who have been bailed out should immediately give half of their profits back to the government to pay back the bailout money until their debt is cleared.
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I am so disgusted with this government. They were quick enough to lend the banks the money, but are so soft and frightened at telling them to give it back. If we (the public) own the bank, then surely we have the right to tell the bank how it will be run.
OR,
Don't we want to upset the poor bankers ?
Paul
Fordingbridge
Hampshire
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What about the taxpayers bonus..........!?.
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can we try and get a little perspective - i have worked for one of the big 4 for over 27 years and have never seen a bonus of the levels being talked about.
the banks employ tens of thousands of ordinary people on an ordinary wage, some of them struggling to make ends meet.
the numbers on the massive bonuses mentioned tonight are a very small perecentage - please remember there are other people involved, lots of whom are now facing te threat of redundancy
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The Chancellor of the Exchequer has the answer.
Tax all bonus payments, preferably at 95% and include all non salary items. Could apply the same tax to MPs' expenses while he's at it.
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As billions of pounds were used to bale out and shore up the Banks, could the Government now claw some of this back by levying a tax rate of say, 90% on any bonus in excess of £50,000. Sounds simple enough to me.
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Totally agree 'bluekitten56'!!!
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If the bankers are starting to make big profits again, then surely they should pay back the money they were bailed out with, before they start sharing it out among themselves !
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Banking may be a stressful job but they should try teaching!! 9-3 job? Not likely, more like 8am-10pm! Get to work at 8, still marking, planning and assessing till 10pm. Shouldn't teachers get bonuses for raising attainment? Without teachers where would the bankers be anyway?
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I cannot beliave that anyone can say they deserve a huge bonus because they have worked hard this year. Does this mean that if they don't do anything they will not get their massive salary as a result. Surely the salary is what they are working for, the bonus is unjustified, to say the least.
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Thought it was somewhat hypocrytical of Holly Jonhson to be lecturing Bankers on the abscene amounts of money they get paid when you think what he has been paid for singing a few naff tunes! Anyway, the British population only have themselves to blame for the current situation, were all just a bunch of fickle mush heads who will soon forget the banking crisis once the recession is over. Read any small print in any banking literature and it will state investments can increase and decrease, etc except we only focus on the increasing element as that suits us. We should'nt be suprised when the market takes a downturn. We should all just remember that its the little guy who ultimately pays - were screwed from the start. Start thinking about how the world really works in any great detail and you soone realise that madness reins supreme.
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I understand why everyone is so angry but please remember not everyone who works for a bank gets a huge bonus!! We too pay taxes and have mortgages to pay!!!
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Can I just add that I too work for a bank and have also
seen my income reduced, despite having no influence on
any trading decisions. But I'm also a tax payer, so am I losing
out twice?
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How can any one individual within any banking corporation validate their own worth to the company and it's customers as being as much as they pay them selves. In comparrison to anyone in the emergency or armed services. Simple GREED!
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A huge salary and then a huge bonus just for doing your job - I think not!
One thing we seem to be missing though is it's not just the bankers.
This happens with high flying management throughout industry.
The company that I work for has made ruthless redundancies at the lower end of the workforce, slapped on a pay freeze for all staff whilst turning in a very healthy increase in last year's already healthy profit.
Whilst this happens, the chosen few from Senior Management through to the board are paying themselves ever increasing bonuses whilst also awarding themselves ever increasing large pay rises.
I'd like to see the whole argument widened and high profile - why should those who earn the most continue to earn more, whilst the squeeze is put on the rest of us who have to bare the brunt of a recession not brought about by ourselves?
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I am getting sick and tierd of being labeled as greedy just because I work for a bank. Contrary to popular myth, we do not all earn huge bonuses and have massive salaries. The last bonus I had was two years ago and was £500 less tax and NI. My salary , after 35 years working for the same employer is £22k, which, like many of my colleagues is less than the national average wage. Of course there are those in the industry who are paid much more, but then again so are Hospital Consultants and Senior Managers, Police Chiefs and Headteachers - and some of these no doubt get bonuses for performance. There are high and low paid in all walks of life - TV for example. It irritates me no end to be lectured about my pay by some TV journalist on a 6 figure salary doing what is basically a part time job!
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This is the comment that Gordon brown said on the 19th of this month..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8FnYIBlnds&feature=youtube_gdata
and yet they ARE STILL rewarding huge bonuses..... what gives??.....Oh .... we do!!
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The Banker's are just a load of greedy ********* It's an absouloute disgrace that this is happening once again HAVEN'T THEY learnt anything!!!!! It's us the UK tax payer that should be given the money back, not those directors or who ever they are. It's completely obscene......... Thank you Holly for your insight to us public workers who work our butts off for comparable little money in return and with the changes constantly happening in the NHS, it is a very stressfulplace to work much of the time. By the way I feel the same about footballers and the like earning obscene amounts of money!!!!
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In a capitalist system your pay/bonuses is related to the amount of profits you can generate for your company. This is why some bonuses are so large.
The problem is not bonuses but how they are structured, before the current crisis many directors etc were paid huge bonuses for short term unsustainable gains which resulted in bank failures this clearly has to stop.
I'd like to point out that at RBS bonuses are now deferred for 3 years, and spread out over a further years. ie 2008 bonuses aren't fully paid until 2014, and if in that period it if shown that the performance created failure in subsequent years bonuses are clawed back.
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The banks should pay back the tax payer NOW, so that it doesn't go to our children to pay off the debt, THEN, and only then should they be paid any type bonus.
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Don't these bankers get paid a salary... for most hard-working employees of whatever industry - a salary is typically all they receive.
If the economy can not survive without this banking system, surely it would be prudent to delay bonus for (say 3 years) to assess sustainability of their performance and only if they stay with their employers. Furthermore this will restrict 'cherry-picking' bankers from moving from job to job to receive 'best bonus'... it will give them more time to build up experience. 10 years experience is far better than 10 times 1 year experience.
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I don't have a problem with the banks getting bonuses, but what I do think is that the banks pay back all the bailout money back FIRST!
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This realy strongly frustrates me as my bank account has been in the red for more than a year now and just cant earn enough to get back into the black.
The huge overdraft of £4000 the Halifax provided has trapped me into what feals like an endless dark tunnel.
Mr Robinson
Blackburn
Lancs
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What the Government should have done is paid £30k into every taxpayers bank account, onlt allowing them £10k of it to spend a year. This way the Banks would have had the investment they required and the good old tax payer would be able to spend therefore improving the opportunities for the struggling businesses. It would have spread the spending over 3 years therefore encouraging growth throughout this period. Everyone happy apart from the rich bankers that got us in this position in the first place by playing with our money.
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Hi, im 17 coming up 18 and the mess that the government and banks have made during the past year or so have totally ruined britain. The amount of unemployment now is unbelievable and for young people like me looking for jobs it is impossible. My view is people in banks should not have any bonuses untill this is all sorted despite the fact that they may not be working in the same section as the ones who made mistakes, it is down to the bank to sort it out, and spending our money on bonuses is ridiculous as it should be spent on better things to straighten out the economical crisis we have all been dumped in.Instead of giving out bonuses maybe they should reduce banking fees. Tom from crickhowell, south wales
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I wonder if the banks have repaid the taxpayers money used to bail them out before they pay the bonuses out. A bankrupt person would have to pay off all monies owed prior to making bonuses in the real world.
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How come the banks can pay bonus's to their staff before they pay the general public back for all the money loaned to them via this dreadful government? They don't even worry about their customers receiving a decent interest. Without them, they are nothing.
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One of the reasons the banks can make these profits is that they are borrowing money from all of us at very low rates. Many pensioners have been diligently saving their cash so they can enjoy a comfortable retirement only to find their income from their savings is almost worthless now. Seems like "never have so few taken so much from so many".
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I think it is bit rich of Adrian to comment on the Bankers bonus' when he earns in excess of 1 million pounds a year and produces nothing for the benefit of the public or industry
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I work for a bank and can assure you that it is not the normal staff who work in branches or in the corporate divisions that get massive bonuses. it is only the dealers in the city and the fat cats at the top .It makes my blood boil too as we in the front line have to face comments from the public regarding interest rates being poor etc because of these bonuses. As many of the banks are partially govt owned now perhaps the bonuses paid should be public like the politicians expenses. Same thing really.
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It is absolutely disgraceful that bankers can still get huge bonuses, essentially for just doing their jobs. At the end of the day they are just doing the job they chose! If they want to know about stress perhaps they should think of the soldiers at war on the.
front line and some of the horrendous injuries they have to live with.
If they have to have bonuses, perhaps they could be limited to a certain percentage when they make so much more money over targets set.
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If I borrow money from a bank I will have to pay it back, Fact?
Well surley if a bank borrows money from the tax payer they should then pay it back also? Surely the goverment are asking for a return?
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I feel that the few reckless people in the financial services industry have given all bankers a bad name. As my other half is in the industry I think he definitely deserves a bonus. Everyday is at least an 11 hour stint in the office starting at 7am - today it is 13 hours. It's hardly glamorous as last week for example was spent in airports, in a different city everyday with fastfood for dinner. Further, they make money for people's pensions and charities and people seem to forget that.
I agree that the likes of RBS and Northern Rock who got bailed out by tax money should not get bonuses but there are a lot of banks who did not play a part in the credit crunch and did not need to get bailed out. Bonuses are performance related pay - if the bank profits this year then staff get a bonus and if they don't they miss out, I've seen this happen... they don't just get thrown money for turning up!
A bigger issue for me is the expenses scandal, since that was purely dishonest and plain fraud. What is really being done about that? How can these same people judge bankers?!
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Why not remove all our money from the banks it would soon have the desired effect, as it did with Northern Rock. If the customer starts to demonstrate its power by action then maybe we could get some justice.
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My husband works for one of the Investment banks and his salary/bonuses have gone down over the last couple of years, it seems people high up still rake it in. That said Goldmans and Morgan Stanley didn't need to be bailed out as they were doing well but the Government said they had to take the money so who's fault is that?! The workers make lots of money for the Bank in Investments (not talking about high street interest rates etc.) so why shouldn't they be rewarded for making them obseen amounts?
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i have no problem with bankers getting performance bonuses but i do feel that before this bonus is payed the money should be payed back to the taxpayer before it all starts up again
pete
rochester
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Id just like to thank Holly Jonhson for pointing out that paramedics and other frontline employees are also and some may say more vital to the country and are payed half the salary of bankers (if their lucky). Also they may have a 'stressful' job but don't people such as firefighters putting their lives on the line on a daily basis have more of a right to use that word to describe their job? They claim they are 'worth it' yet nurses have been refused a pay rise yet again, that is if they haven't already been made redundant due to budget cuts. Can't they see that to pay themselves bonuses they are simply slapping those who have lost their jobs in the face especially as theres a postal strike looming, how insensitive can these 'money men' be?
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I live in France and have been following the recent banking crisis from the perspective of both countries. I wonder to what extent the British public are aware that the French banks have had to repay their debt back to the French govenrment as, so I understand have the German banks rather than take fat bonuses. Admittedly they didn't have to borrow so much but I don't see why the banks in the UK shouldn't do the same even if it takes a bit longer.
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the bankers say that they work under stress, well so do I along with thousands of others, I'm a nurse and the only bonus I get is the knowledge that I have helped someone return to their loved ones, however can you imagine what myself and others go through when we lose a patient, that's stress
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Please tell me why "anybody" should expect a Bonus as a God given right??? Surely ... you do a job and you get a wage or salary - end of story. Certain elements in society have become very greedy.
These Banks have made it all to easy for people to get themselves into debt and now they are making life unbearable for people with overdrafts by the extortionate interest they charge and their intransigent attitude to those caught in the trap.
ALL bonus schemes should end.
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Along with many other issues, and the still ridiculous situation with bankers bonuses, the United Kingdom with its bizarre rules and legislation has gone totally bonkers. How can bankers receive bonuses on current profits, which are not in fact profits, as they are in debt and need to repay this, as the rest of us would have to do. In bailing out the banks these greedy bankers have been allowed to continue working and pay their mortgages, thankfully not finding themselves in the awful position of being repossessed as have so many unfortunate people, who were not afforded a second chance!!
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2 things spring to mind,
1 It seems almost like the banking system has an alteria motive regarding bonuses and with this in mind are not realistic about motivation to perform in a honest and decent manner, the NHS for example constantly moves goal's and targets to keep the public and performance of the hospitals in the interests of it's patrons.
2nd why do we give so much value to those people who move one column of numbers from one position to the next. computers can do this on there own. perhaps we should put the banking system into a computer that runs 'The life simulation program' and go off and do something more creative and worthy like dig the garden. :)
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I have just created an account because that report made me livid - davidos_9 - exactly my point - How DARE that bloke say he deserves it because he works hard - everybody with a job these days has to work hard and many even harder in the last year because of unworthy bankers and others who work in their dirty business. I don't see why they can't be just paid a salary like the rest of us. And even more appropriately one that is frozen or even reduced because of their utter incompetence. Real people are losing pension rights daily, endowments are not paying out as these charlatans promised they would be when we bought them, interest rates are zero for savers whilst credit rates are unbelievably increased. These people are little more than legalised thieves and then they think they are justified in geting bonuses. But to all of you out there who do a proper job, at least you will be making a difference to peoples lives,you can look the rest of humanity in the eye and can hopefully look back on your career with pride and for the good you did in society. At least the bankers will all go to their graves - rich perhaps, but knowing they contributed absolutely nothing whatsoever to society and will be remembered by no one for having done absolutely nothing worthwhile. Whilst you teachers and doctors and other worthy people will at least go to yours remembered by many grateful people.
They really are despicable - they ruin lives and then expect to rewarded
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Can I just say that a "Bonus" is just that and is not something that should be expected! I get a christmas bonus based on attendance through the year but I never expect to get it but when I do I am grateful, especially in this economic climate.
I also find it amazing that bankers are getting rewarded bonuses when the banks should be paying the money back that they were given to help them out before paying any bonus! As far as I am concerned I do not think anyone involved in the banking sector that caused this chaos and missery for so many ordinary hard working people should be rewarded any bonus whatsoever untill the country is out of the debt that the banks put us in.
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I could get a bonus (not large though) but I give 110% to making sure the customer is happy therefore spending time listening and because I take time and make sure I have done my job correctly this means with the 15 calls per hours 7 contacts per hour that the we are targeted us on along with departmental targets and other targets I will never get this bonus, but could be disciplined although I appreciate People work at different paces and could do the above I feel if these target werent applied customers would become much more important as really they are the ones who keep us in a job after all, I beleive the bankers that get big big bonuses should come and work in our jobs then tell us we are not under pressure too !
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Is all the money given to the banks a gift. I believe that the most of the UK tax payer money has been lent to the banks and as soon as the banks recover the money will be repaid.
For the banks to do well and repay the goverment you will need good people working for them. You are not going to get good people without paying good salary or bonus.
Ther are many lower paid worker in the banks who have had their bonus withheld when they did not contribute to downfall.
I say give them bonus once if they can repay the money they borrowed from the UK tax payer.
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I think the poilcy of 'Bonuses' for the bank workers in a specific department' is absolutely immoral. Considering the state of the world, that the banks have tumbles us all into, and the fact that many are suffering to keep a roof over their heads and feel their families, I think that they should have a conscience and step down from accepting such payments for work 'well done'. Anybody in an form of employment, whi has pride in doing their work properly. is happy with the feeling of delivering a 'job well done. These people are unscrupulous and greedy and we, the general public, have to work hard for the next umpteen years to pay back tha monies that have been used to bail out the banks. These people gamble with the consumers money. I worked all my life in hospitals, and all the public services get little or no recogition for putting thier lives on the line, as the fire brigade, long hours in hospitals etc, a doctor who saves a persons life, doesn't get a 'Bonus' for a 'job well done!!
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I worked in the public sector for 20 years where there were NO bonuses because the wages where paid from public money. Surely these bankers, and their employees, should now be classed as public sector workers and are therefore not entitled to bonuses!
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I am also a teacher and becoming increasingly incensed by the talk on television regarding the recession and bonues. According to a discussion on Question Time recently it is becoming apparent that public sector pay is likely to be frozen, however, based on tonights report I am left confused as to how bankers receiving bonuses this year can possibly be justified. I would love to see a story that highlights the situation that public sector workers may be facing.
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Within 5 Mins this blog has demonstrated more outrage than any other of the one shows blogs. Why don't we act on it?
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Why do bankers who gamble with tax payers money seem to justify paying themselves large sums of money, when the only thing they risk on a day to day basis is either heart burn or food poisoning!!!! I am a police firearms officer who has to deal with life threatening incidents and make life changing decisions and get paid a fraction of the wages of bankers and NO bonus. Where do the priorities of the tax payers and government really lie??
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I am another underpaid, undervalued and demotivated bank employee! I have never been awarded a bonus, yet I continue to generate business (Just like my previous banking blogger brothers and sisters) through hard work and excellent customer service. The ivory tower bankers who pontificate from on high, invent unworkable ideas and the expect poor sods like me to implement them should NOT be rewarded for our hard work! Banking used to be a real career but the integrity that was its cornerstone has gone so perhaps my friends, we should embark on a new career!
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Prior to my retirement I worked for a major bank, bonuses are often much higher than the relative profits that individuals are targeted to achieve and lead to all sorts of problems both internally at the bank and externally with share holders.....BUT....the competative nature of the banking business often lead to these bonuses as an incentive forming a pay structure based at getting the right people in the right job if this level of income is not offered these people go elswhere, often abroad.
Also banks are under pressure to lend, lend, lend from directives from the government to stimulate the economy......it is so easy to look for a scape goat when things go wrong.
I am not making a defence of the banks BUT I think we need to look at the governments part in this situation, the bank of england has a big part in economy manipulation and we all know where there directives come from.
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Who remembers GiroBank?
I'm not actually old enough to remember it properly, but sympathise with the idea... and yet it was a Conservative government that scraped the idea and gave more power to the banking system... and even the BBC are slipping up saying that the Tories are about to get back in.....
Don't Forget the Tories want to reinforce the status quo.
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I have been a steelworks processing designer now for almost forty years and during that period most of the companies I've worked for have exported our products and as a consequence, have made a direct contribution to this countries wealth. The current financial crisis is little short of criminal and almost certainly connected to the greed and self centered attitudes of commercial bankers and the broad financial institutions. Within the next twelve months, I stand to lose everything I've worked for over the past forty years.
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I am one of these high-earning banker! ha! ha! I work for one owned by the government. I work in a University branch, and the last three months have been Hellish. We are trying to work a branch with two member of staff - average queue is about 14 (and we reached 50 one morning on opening! My full-time colleague is working 11 hour days, and extra on Saturday to catch up. I only work part-time (officially 9.30 - 4, in actually at the moment 8.30 to about 6). Bonuses are paid on what we sell, and as most of our customers are not British, and many have poor English, we do not get a big bonus, and two till differences a quarter and we lose it. As I am in my 50s, and have not worked here too long, I know that my chances of another job are poor.
Could people please stop telling us how greedy we all are. I earned £150 bonus last year. Balance this against the fact that I have been refused overtime on what I have done this year (time of in lieu is offered, but my manager is trying to find 58 weeks a year to fit holidays in, so I shall be lucky to get a couple of midweek days in February!)
Yes some of our London, top staff may be getting fabulous bonuses, but most of us are struggling just to pay bills!
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chopsblog - get real - we're all working 13 hours a day, my heart does not bleed for you - yes have a decent salary for it, but please don't bleat that bonuses are worthy. your cildren and grandchildren will be paying back the 600 billion debt that this country is now in because of these greed ridden bankers. Many will have to work till they are 70 and public services are going to be cut to the quick by whoever forms the next government because of this shocking scandalous misappropriation of taxpayers money to bail out the bankers. There is no excuse - the money should be paid back - every last penny of it and there should be no hint of a bonus for anyone until it is and even then it MUST be done in the future of sustained performance over a whole career and not the 'quick buck' culture which created this crisis. Unbelievable that anyone can write anything in defence of it.
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that bankers attitude was terrible the normal working person may not even get a pay rise this year let alone a bonus,what makes him so special because he said he's worked hard ,so have a lot of people in the armed forces and the nhs just to name a few.
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Difficult to regulate Bank Bonuses. Suggest a temporary 2 year tax measure (to be reviewed thereafter). In that period, if you work for a UK Bank, introduce a special tax for bonuses (in whatever form, bonus, shares) over £1M - 75% and over £2M - 90%. If they continue to take superbonuses, then at least this ensures that the public purse is recovered through increased tax revenues.
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The small but very significant Difference between the Rank and File Bank employees and the City boys.
I work for a Bank that has always adhered to FSA regulation closely (regards bog standard banking/lending etc anyway). We lend carefully and encourage fair practices, I am quite proud of the Bank I work for. However there are problems such as the fact that we do not get yearly pay rises unlike the Public sector work Force (not at all). We do not get overtime pay despite working between 5 and 40 hours overtime every week to earn the paltry bonus( mine has been £300 this year) the general public thinks we get. I am married to a long serving member of the Armed Forces and despite his stints in Afgan (17hr days) I generally work harder and suffer more pressure and stress but oddly I am payed 1/3rd of his salary and will not get pay rises each year unless someone high up decides to stop pretending we are payed market ratesfor the job we do. I, like most rank and file workers in the Banking system would rather not be paid a bonus. We would be more than happy to receive a proper salary (comensurate with the Public sector would be nice)and be paid for the hours we work. What would be even better is if we didn't have so much regulatory paperwork to do that we have to work 40 hours overtime per week unpaid then find that your bonus is only £300 for the year to make up for this !
I would never think to blame Nurses for the state of the NHS or Soilders for the awful fiasco of the last few years in the Middle east nor do I expect to be blamed for the errors and fumbling misjudgements of the few high ranking executives in the Banking industry.
Think before you continue to insite rebellion against the general banking population.
Like everyone else I am struggling to pay my mortgage and work full time (very) and be a good parent to my two children and remain sane, its not working sadly.
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I was once proud to be a banker, having worked in the industry for 30 years, passed all professional exams and shown great loyalty to my enployer. However, by investing what little extra I had in available share participation schemes, I have been left high and dry with almost nothing left having seen shares drop from £11 to 50p in value. The current blanket coverage of "bankers" as devious, overpaid, underperforming money-grabbers (as so clearly articulated in this blog by virtuousmadwife) makes me ashamed to admit I am a banker - I am in a position with no direct influence over the outcome of the company's performance and along with many, many other loyal "ordinary" employees, have been royally shafted by those who had. Adding insult to injury, we are now expected to work even harder, for less income and with no incentive at all to perform.....and we are the among taxpayers who are providing the bailout too!
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Many people work hard with very long hours! Carers, Hospital workers, chefs, people in the hospitality industry, and many many more, receiving low to moderate wages with no bonuses. To reward bankers is so wrong, banks must start to pay bank the money that pulled them out of the hole they were in. I would never have considered investing money, but I had to take the money from the sale of my mother's house and make it work hard to pay for her nursing home fees. Unfortunately almost half its value was wiped away and no-one will to pay us back as the banks' situation improves. The most vulnerable always suffer.
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Does anyone know what percentage of banks assets or income comes from having high street banks? If it's more than say 20% this would be one hell of a hit....
Get the FSA to say .... "If you do not comply with X Y Z regulation then you are not allowed to sell services to the public"
or
Ensure that investment banks trade under a different brand or separate business to the high street banks.. then you would get "runs on the bank".... a process which is so damaging to a country.
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I feel so angry at these bankers! peoples lives have been devasted by what they have done to this Country. I currently work for one of those banks which was taken over last year and we were told on friday that we have lost our jobs because the new bank have sold us off to a large estate agency group who do not want a bank installed within it, customers received their letters on saturday telling them their local estate agency bank branch would be closing down and offering them a main branch outside the area, most of our customers are elderly and its impossible for them to travel to a main branch. Our staff on the counter hardly earn more than minimum wage and endure abuse and pressure to sell sell sell, for what, to be told they have no job, not even an apology, disgraceful, disgusting, downright criminal, the deal must have been done weeks ago without our knowledge, some customers knew before we did. Words fail me, I`m close to tears.
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PS. I work for a bank that did not take any Tax Payers money !
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Why do bankers need bonuses to reward them for doing their job properly when the vast majority of other workers just receive a salary?
To agree with a point made on tonight's program - any bonuses paid should not just relate to a short term (e.g. annual) gain by the bank, and if they have to be paid they should be in shares or similar item which cannot be cashed in for a number of years. Alternatively, have a new tax rate (preferably punitive) for bonuses as "variable earned income". Question: are bonuses taken into account for calculating National Insurance contributions?
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it's a shame, retrospectively knowing how our spineless government have behaved towards the big banks, that they weren't forced into declaring themselves bankrupt [which RBS certainly were] if that was the case and immediately sacking all the staff; re-instating the branch level people immediately on new contracts and only emloying people in the higher eschelons who were not involved in any risk taking activities again on new, bonus free, contracts. This would have given us a banking structure based on a sensible basis where assets were worth more than debt even if it did mean a temporary short term government backed loan to re-capitalise. The money saved could have been used to stimulate the manufacturing sectors removing our pathetic reliance on what is purely gambling on a huge scale.
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To all of you who work for banks and get a basic salary out there and who have had the courage to write on here - I am sure most of us who have written comments and feel so passionately about the evil bonus culture and the virtual criminality of your management are not including you in our feelings. You deserve a living wage like te rest of us.
But surely even you must all feel strongly about those managers and executives of yours who are nothing better than common gamblers -using our money - and who have destabilised and damaged the western world and destroyed - and I really mean that word - destroyed the lives of so many of their fellow countrymen and women.
...And they really believe they deserve this - yet they are not clever or special, let's face it when you have a system that ensures that every penny we all earn and every pension pot we have to pay into has to pass through a bank - then it doesn't even take a trained amoeba to see that when you move it around and allow everyone to take a cut for themselves that fabulous wealth can be achieved for s** all. They will of course claim that when they bet our money on the tables of threadneedle and wall street (las vegas is much the same) then some will appear to win a bit more and then claim they are even more special and deserve an even bigger bonus. Trouble is - even when they lay their bets (with our money) and lose - they STILL think they deserve a bonus. And ... then they bleat just because they sit at the gambling tables for 12 hours a day - and get stressed in the same way as a gambler does (except at least gamblers are using heir own money) that they deserve to have a win bonus!!!
and just in case you think this is the ranting of an underpaid unreconstructed socialist - you could not be further from the truth. I am a tory voting upper middle earner - but one who works hard in a stressful but rewarding job with an earned salary.
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Frankly, I feel very sorry for everyone, the reality is the majority are struggling trying to make ends meet whether or not they are a banker, teacher, or shop assistant. As per usual it is the minority that effect the rest of us and they don't tend to live in the real world. I'm in agreement with Lillies_Dad we should do something about it, but what could be done?
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Was that man really listening to himself? "I wasn't responsible; why should I be punished?"!!! What about those of us who were also not responsible but are now paying his bonus? There are many, many people in this country who work very very hard and barely get a living wage let alone a bonus. Bankers need to think long and hard about this. Now.
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Very little profit if any is made these days from what we can call traditional banking business like providing loans and mortgages to the likes of us.
The money the bankers have made on both sides of the Atlantic in the last nine months or so and are continuing to make is mainly from gambling. They gamble on the stock market going up and going down, they gamble on the forex market and they gamble on commodities and metals. They now know that Governments around the world will not let the big banks fail so they are able to speculate in the full and certain knowledge that Governments will bail them out whenever they make losses. A dangerous precedent has been set. It's a win-win situation for them and the're exploiting it to the full. It's about time these speculative activities were removed from banks operations altogether and instead of being regulated by the FSA they should be regulated by the Gambling Commission and capitalized as such.
Another unsavoury aspect is the way banks are making use of the funds designed to improve liquidity to businesses and personal customers. They borrow money from the Government at a low rate of interest and then use it to buy Goverment Notes and Bonds at higher rates of interest with zero risk. It's like a tap that you can switch on whenever you want more money and we all know the bankers want more money!
I have no objection in principle to the payment of bonuses but you cannot have a situation where the bankers take the profits and the taxpayer picks up the losses which is what has happened. This encourages speculation. What we need is a system where bonuses are based on performance over a period of say three years and not one year. This would allow for performance to be averaged out and not subject to short-term factors.
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This may be an over simplification, but if any financial institution that received public funds has funds available to pay bonuses and inflated salaries, those funds should first be returned to the taxpayer. When the debts have been repayed in full, only then consider
allowing REALISTIC bonuses to be paid.
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These guys need a culture change they appear to believe that its not me so therefore I should still get my bonus. No way. First as a profession they cause the problem then they ask the tax payer to bail them out then they use the situation to raise the return on there loans by increasing the profit margin 1% above base becomes 2.5% above base then they say surprise surprise we are making good profits so haven't we earned a bonus. God what short memories, no sense of responsibility or ownership while the rest of us work harder with no bonus and the treat of lossing our jobs. They need a dose of reality.
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Ok, so I've heard lots about the economic problems and bankers disgusting pay, but no real discussion about how to fix the problems. I'd like to see an open debate exploring the fundamentals of, and potential improvements to the economy and banking sectors. Go on BBC......
We now own a good chunk of the banks and have the [world] publics attention and desire for change. We have a great opportunity to make the system work for 'us' (and by us I mean every living organism on this planet), not for the huge fat cats and investment bankers.
Unfortunately, at the moment, the rules do mean that this will continue to happen. Investment banks, share holders and the stock market are set up for people to 'gamble' on the 'value' of a company, currency, commodity blah blah.
Whether investing in ISAs, pensions or straight out shares, most of us (whether knowingly or not) invest for the future in this way......and......here comes the problem, the rules of this system also allow those with lots of money to make huge profits.
The vast majority of us don't sit and watch tickers fly by all day, listening out for gossip about a companies results or latest product sales. We're too busy working! This means, the few people who do study these things for a 'living' can make huge bonuses.
By moving some super rich guys offshore fortune around quickly, exploiting lags in the market, by using insider knowledge, these guys can make money, lots and lots of money........ in the case of the banks and investment firms, these guys are gambling our pension funds, savings and investments. So if we want good guys, we have to pay going rate.....hmmm.....I almost get it....market price dictates but it just isn't right is it!?
To me, the whole system just seems wrong. It fosters a world where money makes money!!!! There's no reward for making the world a better place if there's no profit margin!!! People are encouraged to get into debt!!!! Companies must make bigger profits year on year even if that will kill the company long term!!!! I'm sure there are many other illogical outcomes of our economic regime.
We need to look at the stock market, the way in which companies are valued, the way shares are traded and 'our' money is moved around. I'm no economist, I'm an engineer, I see our economy as a system completely out of control with no shutdown, safety or backup systems.
It's not a good state of affairs when our world revolves around an economy that even the experts in the field admit to "not knowing how it works!?" !!!!Mental!!!! Come on economists, help us out and suggest a better way! Look at what's good and bad ....explore the alternatives....surely there are some!
Lets draw up some new rules. For a start, stop the gambling, safe investments should be exactly that. Take into account that not every company in the world will make bigger profits year on year. Housing is a human need, not a money tree. Make the valuing of a commodity or company a logical act, not guesswork. Channel profits toward solving some of the planets problems not to one of the lucky fews next buggati. Don't reward companies if they are harming people or any part of the living planet.
Every complex system needs controls, the free market isn't a fair market at the moment. We need to change it now or watch it sink further into insanity.
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As your speaker Adam Shaw said big payments are already back for the City Dwellers in the Financial Market, the Bonuses are based on the Trading years figures on last 12 months performance. But we can only actually see if the money made by these City financiers actually does create wealth and profit in the longterm, say 3 to 5 years.
Therefore, it would make sense to only pay the so called earned big bonus after say 3 to 5 years when the earnings produced, prove that they have actually made a profit that has value and longevity to all in the long term.
After the period of maturity they get their big payment based on the knowledge that the money they made for their Banks or Institution's was solid profit to base the bonus on?
Regards
Andrew Smith
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As a songwriter, through an idea suggested by a songwriter friend of mine, I wrote "Credit Crunch (Eat the Bankers)", a bitter, vicious, cynical attack on those who have caused financial problems for all of us. (With a touch of humour, though it doesn't make me laugh at all). I felt that the disgraceful misbehaviour of this bunch of banking amateurs deserved attention.
To listen, go to the Songs Page of SongLand.com. You'll *love* the screams as they get scoffed up!
Through their greed & mismanagement, the bankers have landed the whole planet in an economic and financial crisis unseen since the Great Depression. They should suffer for it ... preferably by being eaten!
Well, you know what I mean! And now they're at it again with the bonuses. I actually tweeted that a few weeks ago...
This song is especially poignant for me because a dear member of my family has been brought to his knees by all this. Tonight's feature on "The One Show" highlighted again how vulnerable we are to these parasites. One of them commented that we (a modern society) need a banking service. Sure we do ... but not run by bankers!!!
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It is hard to understand why a question with only one answer keeps being asked. In fact the real question that needs to be asked is HOW DO BANKERS CREATE WEALTH? I have tried to figure out what they do but come back to the same answer bankers take money from A and give it to B paying A a small interest rate and charging B a high interest rate. The bankers then keep a big part of the difference themselves. What could be simpler.
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why didn't the government give every one in this country over the age of 18( for example the banks debts divided by the population over 18 probably work out at approx £15,000 each)an equal sum of money this money would have either gone into a bank pay an overdraft off,been invested in a high interest savings account,might have been used to pay a debt,help reduce a mortgage,enable employees to take a salary cut to keep their jobs,it would also have helped retail businesses, elderly people with the increased cost of their heating bills all in all it would have bailed every one out and not just helped the big fat bankers.
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at the end of the day the comment above would have helped the banks out of the situation they were in as eventually most of the money would have gone into their accounts all of us seems a lot fairer way of doing it to me.
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I'm not a financial wizard, but these bank bonuses - aren't they calculated based on end of year profits? Why were the profits so great? They would be a lot lower if the banks in question had paid their debts to the country first. Repayment of the government (taxpayer) loan should have been taken off the bottom line before calculating pay-outs of massive bonuses to the very people who caused the failure of the banking system in the first place. Why have the banks not been forced to pay the loans back as soon as they were back in profit?
Did the Govenment do nothing to put in place a repayment policy when it bailed out the failing banks with taxpayers' money? What we were told was a loan, now looks as if it was just one huge gift from us to the banks so that they could continue to be just as reckless as they were before.
We hear the recipients of the bank bonuses claim that they work really hard and therefore deserve the massive bonuses. Don't the bankers have a pretty high base salary - what have they done recently to deserve these obscenely high extra bonuses? In the 'real' world, there are many qualified professionals who work just as hard and carry more personal day-to-day responsibility than some of the bankers who gambled the country into this mess. Many have lost their livelihood due to the irresponsibility and greed of the banks. They don't get massive financial rewards for failure - why do bankers think they deserve any rewards? The whole banking salary system should be reviewed.
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It seems to me that we could, at a relatively low cost, setup a state run bank offering essential banking and mortgage facilities, i.e. retail banking. Its remit would be to break even and remain in retail banking, preferably not managed by ‘bankers’. By offering value for money banking, this would have the effect of damping down the excesses of the retail banking sector. As to controlling the rest, I thought we bought shares in the banks to support them, if so, should they not toe the line we should just dump the shares back on the market. The rest of the banking sector is just parasitic and should be treated as such, making money from money has no social function whatsoever, it is based upon greed alone. If people, as individuals wish to gamble with their own money then let them get on with it, but anyone caught gambling with others money should be jailed for a very long time. The whole sector by its nature, greed and gambling, is inherently unstable, there is no effective way of stabilising it.
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I think this depends on where bankers get their bonus' from.
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What is the bonus for? doing badly!ok!poor!or good?or is it to line each others pockets with my money? and yours!bonuses why arn't they paid to the goverment to pay back us?Get us out of debt what aload of bankers...
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Royal Mail Strike: Who will win?
There is currently a battle of words in the media between Royal and the Communication Workers Union.
Firstly, the union claims that a majority of it's members support the strike. This may or may not be true. What is required by the 1992 Act is that a "majority voting in the ballot" vote yes for the strike. The union correctly claims that a clear majority, about two thirds, of those who voted supported the strike call. But what about those who did not vote? One can only speculate about their support. If the non-voters are a small minority then it remains true that a majority supports the strike. But the truth of the union's claim depends on the size of the minority: the larger the minority of non-voters the less likely is the claim to be true. The Act does not require non-members of the union to declare support, but their allegiance to the strike is very dubious, as they are not even members.
Secondly, Royal Mail has problems with this strike. This is the first strike in a long time that is not apparently about money for workers. It is about modernisation. But what does modernisation mean? To management it is about more sophisticated machinery for sorting mail and packages. To workers it is about working faster, and walking faster on the daily delivery. More fundamentally workers fear that faster sorting will result in redundancies. So this strike is about job security in hard times. But money does rear it's head at this point. Redundancies, voluntary and involuntary, cost management money. New machinery cost money. Royal Mail does not have enough money to pay pensions.
What to do? Should Royal Mail offer to pay decent compensation for voluntary redundancies. Raise charges for all commercial letters and packages, and use the extra to subsidise post for pensioners, and the outer islands of Britain? Ask the Chancellor for more money to pay for pensions? Pay for 30,000 extra wokers for the duration of the strike, and beyond? These are all hard choices, and produce a determined management. The prospect of job loss also produces determined workers. Who will win?
Lastly, Royal Mail has a problem in that modernisation is clearly an issue to be sorted by management. Or is it a problem to be sorted by both parties? In this case unions start to look good to the general public.
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I say take all the money out of the banks and go back to having cash. Then the power would be with the people.
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