New benefits test: Will it suss the scroungers?
Anita Rani has been looking at the new Employment and Support Allowance (ESA), the scheme that will replace Incapacity Benefit. 
The ESA was introduced last October for new claimants and will be rolled out for those currently claiming Incapacity Benefit by next April. To claim, ESA applicants are tested on what work they could potentially do, rather than what they can't do.
It's the test that's proving to be controversial.
Lord McKenzie, Minister for Work and Pensions told Anita that "we believe it's a potentially more effective assessment - making sure people are on the right benefit for them".
But Neil Coyle, from Disability Alliance, said that the charity is beginning to hear from people who most would consider unfit to work, being told that they could hold down a job. He said that the new "system doesn't seem to be flexible enough".
See also
Ouch! The BBC's website about disability.
More about ESA.
A guide to ESA.
Will the ESA benefits test help the sick and suss the scroungers? Continue the conversation, add your comment.
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Comments
As the partner of someone who developed a server mental illness as a direct result of thier job and who had no choice but to use the benefit system for the first time in their life, I can say wholeheartedly that this system is a joke.
Our GP, his psyciatrist, psycologist and various other medical experts deemed him unfit for work and yet the medical examination found him to be completley fit. Having made many calls to complain, appeal and have many discussions, even the people on the end of the phone were agreeing that it is a joke and telling me of people in the latter phases of terminal illness who did not qualify for the payments.
It seems yet again that the benefit system in this country misses the point and does nothing to help the honest, hard working people who find themselves in situations outside of their control.
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This is crazy. There are thousands and thousands of fully able people who cannot find jobs, yet government is applying all its effort to getting DISABLED people into what vacancies are available!
Besides, since when is a civil servant more qualified than a doctor to assess someone's fitness to carry out certain tasks?
I have now been for medical assessments and found that the examinations are actually not as thorough as that carried out by my GP when my symptoms first manifested.
By all means use an examination to find out those who are fleecing the system and get them off the benefits that they're not entitled to, but don;t use it to either A. meet targets or B. force genuinely unable people into situations where they cannot survive properly.
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I think that Martin Kemp hit the nail on the head. There are too many paople trying to " con "the system . As a result genuinly disabled people are going to suffer.
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him iv been on esa since the start oct 2008, i failed the medical as im capeable of working 16 hours a week, great trouble is i have a job, which im not fit to return to, im awaiting my 2nd op in 3 weeks time. my surgeon gp have said im not fit enough to return to my former employment and my employer will not let me return until i can adear to health and saftey requlations.
esa said i had to apply for jobseekersallowance, great i have a job held open for me, i cant claim job seekers. iv been waiting to go to a tribunal on my case since jan of this year. do they know what they are doing, i dont think so
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As someone who has been through the process, the whole regime needs to be changed, you appear to get treated with contempt by the people running the process (not by job centre plus but by the company it is outsourced to). I want to get back to work, but at the moment with my condition I have no chance of being able to do a days work with the amount of pain killers I am on, coupled with the daily issues of coping with my symptoms. However when I do go back to work I would struggle to do a full days work and would be looking to go part time, I would need support in doing this. The way I am made to feel throughout all these tests and assessments, I don't feel I would get the support as an honest individual who is genuinely too ill to work but is needing to make use of the 'system' to be able to afford to live.
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I think that is a bad idea. I know that you have to protect the public purse,however what happens if a person has Mental Illness going to show that they are ready for work. They might be able to do phsyical tasks but not other things and I think that the stress of having this assesment might put extra strain of people's health.
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Martin Kemp was correct when he stated that genuinely disabled people will suffer because of this. I cannot find a job, havn't worked for quite a time, DO NOT claim any benefits, and so am overlooked and not offered any help finding work. Don't pick on the genuine people, help the ones that want and need it.
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I have Young Onset Parkinson's Disease and am on incapacity benefit. My symptoms vary from being unable to move 'frozen' to normal movement to too much involuntary movement every day. I take medication every 3 hours to try and control these symptoms but unfortunately it doesn't keep me stable. I could end up at an assesment when my tablets are working and i have good movement for an hour or it could be that the time of my appointment coincides with my'off' time when the tablets are not working and i freeze, am unable to walk without the adi of a walking stick and getting through the doorway takes a lot of mental effort. I sleep at some point most days as everything i do takes twice as much time and effort. How is this new test going to work for me and others like me? I don't spend my time in front of the TV. I spend it trying to spread awareness of this frustrating disease and fundraising for research. But i can do this when my body allows, like at 4 oclock in the morning!!
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I have just failed one of these medicals, the result contradicted both my GP and Physio. When I called to ask for clarification I was immediately told to appeal it. I have been ruled fit to go back to my job as a filing clerk even though I have a kneeinjury and at present Im still unable to kneel, crouch or manage stairs without pain! I understand why they have changed this but when you give them the information with which to check and they dont bother how can this be fair.
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I am of the opinion that although the system is quite thorough it is flawed with regards the effects of some illnesses.
My sister has M.S., and if you fill in the forms to the letter it would seem there is nothing wrong and she is totally capable of work. Anyone with or knowing someone with M.S. will know that, particularly in the early stages, one of the biggest problems is the exhaustion that is suffered. There is no easy way to quantify this, but it certainly in a lot of cases would prevent an M.S. sufferer from doing a full days work. No-one would know that my sister suffers from M.S. because she shows no physical signs for the majority of the time and puts on a brave face over the exhaustion, but she ceratinly is not able to carry a full time job.
The forms are too black and white to cover this type of disability. They hold great store by whether one can cook a meal unaided and similar. The answer in my sisters case to this would be yes, but she would be too exhausted to do much else after.
I think that when creating these forms that the people concerned should take the advice of experts from a wide range of illnesses and realise that all is not so cut and dried.
It is very frustrating, because I know she needs help, but the current system does not seem to allow for this.
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I've had to go through the ESA assessment and was considered one of those possibly able to work, to my great surprise. Fortunately upon attending interview with the DWP I found their staff fully aware and accepting of the failures of this system and, once I had explained my current medical situation, I was told my benefits were secure and they merely had to tick boxes to meet their targets. So it seems once again the politicians are picking on the easiest target to look good in the tabloids. What's new?
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My daughter had an assessment today. It was handled by a non-medical person, and the computer questions were limited to Yes or No answers. No account was taken of her problem which is ME or Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. She found the whole process upsetting, distressing and one wonders if it is all a waste of time. Yet again showing how hard it is for people with conditions that are not visible disabilites, to have a fair hearing.
AGP
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I had an accident at work which destroyed my life. I was given SSP by the employer, but this was stopped after the 26 week period which only gave me enough time to learn to stand again. The rest will take me i have no idea how long to fully recover - surgeons have told me that I will more than likely never recover.
I am UNABLE to claim benefits - they MIGHT be able to help, but this will take 6-9 months to process, it took 5 months for them to send the WRONG forms!! What I did get from them was a BILL, Since I have had no income my NI has not been paid - so a £470 bill was issued so far.
I need to get back to work, but CANNOT APPLY UNTIL I CLAIM BENEFIT! The job centre refuse to give me details!
I was on a course for disabled people to get back to work - but could not go on a placement and was then DROPPED from the course for being TOO DISABLED!
What annoys me, is people out there need help, yet there are those sponging that don't need it at expense of those that really need it. I see a program every day where people scam millions from disability - yet i can't even get a bit of help!
I have sold everything i own to get by, and the money is running out.Not only do i want to work, i NEED to work. I just need to find a job that isn't advertised at the job centre, as I am not allowed to apply for them, and a job that will accept a permanently disabled person - I don't really care if it kills me working, I cannot afford to live around a disability!
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I watched with interest your show tonight. My husband despite having had a severe skin condition for which he takes immune-suppresant drugs which have unpleasant side effects has been turned down on the "points system" which is so irrelevant to his condition and so inflexible it quite frankly is a complete waste of everyone's time. His GP has written a letter explaining that he cannot work and they are "looking at it again". One thing I cannot understand is that you have said this only affects new claimants. He has been on incapacity benefit for 6 years but now they have stopped all payments. Can someone please explain this to me as every time I ask the DWP they give different (and I suspect deliberately) misleading information. Why do they assume that everyone is a lazy scrounger (obviouly some are!) Even if there were any jobs out there, what employer will take someone on who is allergic to so many things and is on strong medicine and would have to go off sick every few weeks?
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I have been suffering from anxiey & depression for 16 months now, attempting suicide on more than one occasion, admitted to Psyhciatric hospital for 3 months. I am under Psychiatric doctors, CPN and Psychologist. I still only get a fews hours sleep per night if lucky. I am on 5 different medications. Early this year I was made redundant from my job of numerous years. 4 days after a discharge from a 2nd discharge from Psychiatric hospital, I went for my assessment and told I am fit to work !!
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Its good to out scroungers who are not entitled to benifits but surely there is a beter way. about 17 months ago I had a brain tumor removed this has left me with problems (balance,double vision,panic attacks,fits,unable to walk more than about 50 metres as both my legs go and the base of my back go numb and lots of other problems ) I worked all my life as a driver either lorrys or buses and have been told buy the DVLA i must go 10 yeaes fit free and with no medication before they will even think about given my licenses back and thats if i could drive again and what worries me is their is poeple worse off than me their is no help out there
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Ok
I am on Long Term IB I was given the new test after waking them(JCP) up last year by daring to ask for support to get back to work.
6 months 1 week later after approaching them and receiving no support, but by gosh they sent me round the houses to try to get it.
I received the paperwork asking me to attend. After contacting the private company ( I wont name them, but they know who they are) brought into carry out the tests ... thats another story... I eventually received a mutually acceptable appointment.
During the exam both the interviewer and myself agreed the questions were not really applicable but within days I received notice I had passed the test(if you think that is the wrong word, you have never been in the system with a non physical ailment).
I had to switch the show off as I was getting so angry at the way the topic was being handled,(...and her a GP too!)
Was too angry to type this at first as I think the blog is the wrong method of contacting the show on thisoccassion but then I considered it would be a wasted opportunity.
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Martin Kemp got it wrong. There are not too many trying to con the system (if you don't count the bankers whose reward for gambling is a huge bonus or the MPs who fiddled their expenses or the super rich who don't pay taxes) My experience is that disabled people are loath to claim their entitlements because they don't want to be called scroungers. I have had Parkinson's Disease for ten years, I had to find out by myself what I was entitled to. Why aren't the Government telling us exactly what we are entitled to. The impression was given in the programme that disabled people sit at home watching the television and if we don't do this and go out for a walk we must be scroungers. I talk to people, help people I traveled 75 miles today to help someone aged 30 with PD does that mean I should work. I visit my GP who knows little about PD, there are few patients in a surgery with PD, but instead of GPs deciding that you are able to work a health practitioner will. They will have no idea of the aches, pains, balance problems and fluctuations in the condition so who are they to judge. Lets be blunt its an exercise by the Government to save money, after all wasn't it a Banker who drew up this benefit
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I have just watched your show and I needed to put my comments forward, I have worked for 30 years constantly and I am still in emplyment now, but over the last 4 years I have been in constant pain in my lower spine and down my right leg so bad that I cannot sit for long stand or walk very far, I have not been able to work for the last year due to the pain and now have had to go onto benefit because my wage and SSP have stopped, I have been assessed by a GP at the DWP and he said I am fit for work, I think that this new system is absolutly madness I have paid into the system for 30 years and when I need some help they turn me down. All I would love to do is be back at work and have a lift I am 43 and feel like I am 73.
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The idea of this test is as derogatory as it is a diabolical impeachment of ones basic rights. It would not surprise me if it was origionally found in a dusty corner of a museum in a box marked third reich historical docuents.
Just last year my brother who is severly disabled had to endure court proceedings of up to 8 months, in which time his benefit was more than halved and his way of life and mental state diminished to a shadow of what it formerly was.
The outcome of these proceedings resulted in my brother winning his case and being cleared of any 'suspicion'
However, less than a year later he will now be expected to perform this test. Refusal to do so will result in either a cut in benefits or they will just be stopped all together.
This test is fundamentaly and morraly wrong.
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My Daughter who was working and caught Glandular fever and as a result of this she also caught Hepatitis, she has not been able to work and is not entitled to sick pay. She claimed benefit and had to go for the 'medical'- a complete joke! The questions where totally inapropriate for her condition. Of course she failed the 'medical' and was deemed fit for work! The option she was told was to claim job seekers where if you claim you are saying you are fit to work. She has a job waiting for her which she really misses and wants to get back to as soon as possible, but can only do so when she has fully recovered from her illness.
We all know that the company the govenment are paying to get people back to work are on a bonus to get as many people as possible off benefits. This is being done in a cold and calculated way without any consideration for the individual.
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I am 54, have a long term medical problem and due to a car crash in 1994 I have mobility problems - but this did not stop me returning to work, even though it was gradually. My work now is nothing like my work previous to my car accident, but with training and a positive attitude I am now back at work with Nottinghamshire County Council (NCC) on a full time basis with the help of NCC's Ready4Work Team I am a supported disabled employee along with others with both physical, learning and other disabilities and ready to move onto an unsupported job.
I do not believe other members of the disabled community who have given up! Think "I can!" NOT "I can't work again" or "because I have never worked before I will never be able to work or be offered work"
Please check an article that BBC Nottingham recorded about my positive attude on: [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
Yes I have faith as well, but think positive and find the right organisations through Job Centre Plus, Job Fairs etc., or even try voluntary work 1st and see where you go to from there.
My colleagues and I are proof that it works.
Lisa Cheung
Braille Bureau Operator
previously restaurateur & sales person
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I suffer from severe eczema that can flare up all over my face and body with no warning.When this happens I can hardly go 10 minutes without having to wash my face and remoisurise to ease the excruciating pain and discomfort.It also has a severe psychological effect causing depression.To imagine that I could possibly hold down a job during these periods is ,quite frankly,ridiculous.However the forms for "Incapacity Benefit" are so rigid and specific that they leave huge swathes of illnesses(my own included) totally unrepresented.It is an absolute travesty that people who are already suffering due to ill health should be treated like "scroungers" simply because of the governments inability to implement a system that actually works.
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There is one job for which no qualification is required - it's being a member of parliament
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My wife has had progressive MS for over 10 years. Her record for standing up without holding furniture or people is about 1min 20 seconds. the distance she can walk without help is abouts 30yards.
For those who know nothing of this condition it affects the covering of the nervous system including the nerves the control areas of the body including the bladder. If the nerves don't function then your'e being told (by your body, that you need to use the toilet when you don't and when you do! So we have a commode in the lounge. She recently received a request for jury service which she would have loved to have done but had to decline. Fortunately she was exempted because of her condition. Had she been able to work for the past 11
years she/we would have been considerably better of. I believe that greater scrutiny is required but all of the benefits that she recieves (and has only done so for the past 3/4 years) were only as a result of medical advice and from those at the DWP.
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I am claiming this benefit, although I am unable to return to my old job as a lorry driver, I am fully comuter literate and very keen to find alternative employment. Each visit I have made to the Job Centre Plus advisor, has, in my opinion, been a complete waste of everybody's time. All they do is ask me what I have been doing. and then they look at the job centre vacancies. I ask them if there are any courses I could attend to get some recognised certificates, and they always say no. They are absolutely no use or help to me whatsoever. I have been out of work for over a year, and nobody can help me at all.. it sucks.
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Just over a year ago Gorden Brown said his government were going to cut the ammount of people on incapcity benefit by half.
The way they are doing this is highly immoral and discusting in practice; anyone on the benefit has to have regular medicals with so-called doctors, after the announcement was made people were suddenly going from the 15 points needed to 0 points, without any improvement in the issues they have which resulted in them being on the benefit in the first place. This is done in the hope that most will simply decide to go on JSA rather than go through the appeal process, which takes forever and results in your benefit being cut during the process. and most do simply go onto JSA.
I appealed there decision back in Feb 2009, I have yet to hear what is going on.
And as others have mentioned it is all a load of rubbish and a con anyway, as there is not enough jobs for those already looking for work. Or have people like Christine forgot that loads of people lost their jobs recently and in a recession employers don't want to employ as many as they did when things were going well.
Also anyone with any wisdom, and who is not simply saying anything the government wants them to say, would know that if an employer has two people going for a job, one who has just lost his job due to the recession and the other who has been out of work for 5 years and on incapcity benefit, he is not going to consider the one who has been out of work for many years, not when so many only been out of work for a few weeks.
The bbc is now more and more an arm of the government, the way they simply accept all that the leaders say and give it out as truth.
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I recently took the ESA Assessment and the result was that I was found perfectly fit for employment even though I was dismissed from the DWP for time off with Med Certificates from my GP declaring that I was suffering from Stress and Anxiety. I agree with Disability Alliance that the test is not flexible enough.
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I have chronic depression. I have had counselling at my local surgery and I am presently receiving help from my local mental health services. My depression was made worse by being forced to look for work by Job Centre Plus. There may be things I could do but the system made my depression worse and made me convinced that I couldn't do anything. Thje stress especially made me completely unable to perform in an interview even if I got that far which I rarely did as after becoming long-term unemployed I had noone to put down as an employer reference.
The double speak in Job Centre Plus and the government about these things is terrible. They say 'help' but all they mean is presurising people to do what they have already made people feel so stressed that they are completely unable to do. They make people unable to get jobs and they end up on IB and now they want to stress people on IB which make people even more ill.
If there are so many jobs free out there why don't they get the jobs for people to do instead of just pressurising people and making their health worse?
If anything things are now worse - with the crash there are fewer jobs and yet the government just come up with more advertising and schemes to label those losing their jobs as scroungers.
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Would someone explain why they agreed with Matin Kemp`s comments on why the cheats deny the genuine claimants ? This whole excercise is to cut the outgoing money and keep civil servants in work.A genuine claimant will not recieve anything more than the monstrous £60-£70 per week......... that would not even cover a meal claimed for in MP`s expenses.
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I have just failed one of these medicals too, the result also contradicted both my GP and specialist. When I called to ask for clarification I was told to appeal, in the mean time they cancelled all payments (as if living on £64.30 a week wasn't hard enough!) I have been ruled fit to go back to work even though I have two detached retinas I am on my 4th operation and as yet none have been succesful. I have had buckles sewn on and then removed and gas put in. The gas means lying on your side with a 5 minute break every hour for the first week and then for eighteen hours a day for the next two weeks, explain to me as I also have the added problem of being made redundant which employer is going to want to take me on under these circumstances? I have now been told that I will be going to tribunal in three to four months time to explain why I have appealed and will have to convince them that I was unable to work at the time of appeal, I have two detached retinas, the specialist says so, my optician says so, I don't have any clear vision and they only work I know involves sitting in front of a computer all day, I asked to be retrained and was told no it's too expensive, so please don't give me this is to help you rubbish, my life couldn't be anymore stressful thanks to this system. As if going in and out of hospital, being bed bound and coping with the pain isn't enough!!!
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I suffer with severe epilepsy and have been told by my consultant that I am unable to work until well after the surgery and there is no guarantee that the surgery will work and there are risks with the brain operation. I have recently applied for ESA and have been told that I must go for a medical and a back to work interview. My employer agrees that I cannot work; my GP has said that he does not ever see me being able to work again if the surgery is not successful. After hearing what has been said by others I am dreading my medical and I cannot believe that I have to prove to a civil servant that I have my condition, it is not a physical disability so is hard to explain my condition. What is our government thinking, there are too many abusers of the system is it fare that the people who really have conditions suffer because of others.
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The new operators of the medicals make it very clear that they are not in the business of using doctors they are medical professionals
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Iam going to be able to retire this year as my employer forced me to retire afer 43 years of cnntributions and have been declared fit by the ESA Dr I used to work for the NHS who made ny life a misery for the last ten years been told I am to dedicated and commited and was told they were doing me a favour to finish me with no packageras I would have no money for three months so I did no alternaive . iam now being told I have to appeal against the ESA Dr that I am unfit. Thge )healrh Dr has stated that I am unable to work. I am torally stresssed out as they are making my condition worse and ials have a chronic chest condition. Whiltst I appeciate I have had my health so long why after all they years should I be penalised
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with the discretion of the Blogmaster may I reflect you to the following we site kindly provided by Newcastle CC.
http://www.newcastle.gov.uk/core.nsf/a/wr_esadescriptorshome
this has the physical and non physical descriptors for the test
Thanks
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I take pure morphine tablets twice aday I am under the spinal injuries department having treatment, I am having an 8" catheta needle inserted into my sciatic nerve and upto my spine and then connected to a machine to zap me with electrical pulses, I have to go to the hospital twice aweek for this treatment for 6 weeks and they say Im fit for work, I am now under the process of appealing against there decision my GP and Specialist have also written letters on my behalf. If this treatment works I will have to have a permenant inplant of this machine into my stomach and back to hopefully take some of the pain away so I can lead a normal lift.
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After an accident at work in march 08, i injured my back and struggled to work last year so had a lot of time of sick as my job was a standing full time job. Unfortunately i have not been able to work at all this year and my sick pay ran out so i was advised to claim ESA, and after having a medical i was deemed fit for work. Which yes i could probably do a office based job but unfortunately my job is not. My company dr, my own gp and physio said i was not fit to return to my current job. Because after the medical they said no, i appealed against it back in may and am still waiting for it to go to tribunal. I have been struggling to pay bills as i can't get any help. A few week's ago i resigned from work and am hoping to take them to a tribunal under the Disability Discrimination Act. The way we are treated is so bad and nobody seem's to care and does'nt want to help at all. The government need to look how people with disability's are dealt with and consider major changes.
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I work on Pathways To Work scheme which works with people on E.S.A. ( Employment Support Allowance) and Incapacity Benefit in order to help them return to work. I have 13 years of experience working in various welfare to work schemes and have seen various changes through the years. I agree and know through experience that working improves health and general wellbeing but there are several major flaws in the system which no one seems interested in. Firstly people being told they are fit for work and then being told they can't claim Job Seekers Allowance as they are unfit for work. The two departments don't talk to each other. People taken off ESA having to lie to Job Seekers Allowance as they have to pretend they are looking for work in order to get money coming in when they already have a job to go when they are fit enough. I have too many other stories to tell if anyone would listen.
Please note if you have been taken of ESA after a medical your benefit will be re-instated at the lower rate whilst your appeal is being heard. Use the appeal form gl24 which is on direct.gov website. Citizens Advice are great help but very busy.
Good luck to the genuine people with health problems I will try to help you back to work but the system is against us. I also appologise for the way this country is treating you makes me ashamed.
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I apologise for posting the wrong internet address for the BBC Radio Nottingham details about my interview, please try:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/nottingham/content/articles/2009/03/31/lisa_cheung_turning_point_feature.shtml
Lisa
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benhur, iv elected to go to tribunal over failing my esa medical. i applied for this in jan this year, do you know how long i will have to wait, as knowone in st austall bdc does.
I agree totaly that the scroungers should be made to work, but for people like me, who have had opperations and am waiting for my 2nd in 3weeks time, have to try and survive on 64.30 a week, its a joke. and will i get the upper payment backdated tax free if i win (wont hold my breath on that one) as im still breathing.
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38 Thanks
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As the wife of a incapacity benefit claimant i thought that your programme has managed to label any one on this benefit as a scrounger. My husband has Fibromyalgia and has gone from a super fit postman to someone who is in pain constantly. If he could work he would. There are thousands of able bodied, healthy people looking for work so can anyone tell me where these " jobs " are coming from !!!! Do they have any idea of the stress and anxiety they cause to people who are not well in the first place who are now worrying about this test I thought the doctors opinion was disgraceful. She of all people should have known better.
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Martin Kemp was correct when he stated that genuinely disabled people will suffer because of this. Hence the genuine will be made to suffer, because it would be considered too much like hard work to catch the ones who simply should never had gotten pass first base. I' sure the majority on here would know of someone who's making such unjustified claims, at least I could point out 7 if not more. 7 that are driving around in 4x4, Jag and even a BMW, all from the motability scheme, how such vehicles are justified upon such schemes is beyond me. To top that though, these people stroll around with an aid, if required, they also act as if they are entitled and see nothing wrong. Then I know of others who clearly need help and do not receive any support.
But I will say this, try some hard work and stop those who just shouldn't be claiming, but also help and support those who really need it.
Generally speaking, stop vehemently attacking those unfortunate vulnerable people, suffering at the bottom. Start bringing to account those irresponsible at the top, those creaming of the top, those in positions beyond their capabilities.
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As a previous recipient of Incapacity Benefit, I would be interested to know if others were offered or participated in a Condition Management Programme ( Referred through Job Centre Plus ):- Aimed at assisting those on a Health related benefit to better manage their health condition. The one I attended was run by the NHS and I found it to be very helpful. Often those of us with chronic health conditions can feel left behind. It alarms me that there is no mention, in previous posts, of this available help. It does not affect your benefits and is purely voluntary. I am now working part-time in a different job as a result of the assistance in this programme. I was taken seriously (for the first time in years)and given real and practical guidance in helping myself manage my health in a more effective way.
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Takes 4-6 weeks but is likely to take longer as they are having to employ more staff as they can't cope with the numbers
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I am a welfare rights advisor with over 10 years experience, I have seen every type of claimant you can imagine and fought every type of appeal you can imagine. I believe the new ESA is not good at all. The doctors who do the medicals are not interested and have targets. My office has dealt with over 100 appeals in 1 month. The decisions are ridiculous. Some examples: - a lady who had a double mastectomy and was recovering from reconstructive surgery after secondary infection, attended her medical with 2 drains inserted into two open wounds, was deemed fit for work. A man with a chronic and life limiting lung disorder, deemed fit for work. A young girl, who had made 4 attempts on her life in 5 months, who’s scars on her wrists had not healed when she attended, deemed fit for work. A middle aged man, worked for 40 years who had suffered head injuries in a RTA and now had constant seizures, deemed fit for work. The list I have is endless. The programme tonight was misleading and inaccurate. ESA is nothing more than a political platform for the government. It is not working, it is not getting people back to work, because there are NO JOBS, the agency’s designed to help (A4E) are target driven. And as for any help for people, that has got to be the biggest laugh of the lot ! I have not had ONE client so far who has attended a work focused scheme tell me it was of benefit.Yes or course shake up the system to get the “scroungers” of benefits, but at what actual cost? All the appeals I am doing are paid for through public funds ( the legal aid system)! I’d like to see the statistics for that! I’m very angry about it all.
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This my second entry tonight and all I can say after reading all these entries is GORDON BROWN AND CO should be totally ashamed of themselves. I hope that this so-called government will be able to see all these comments. I would also like to see drug addicts and scroungers given a TEST for their income support which they get despite most of them never having paid a penny into the system. My husband has worked all his life and is being treated like this along with all the other people who have entered a comment here tonight. Apparently we cannot get ANY other benefit because I earn too much. Can't say I have noticed this and now have to cover the loss of benefits on top of all the other bills. By the way my husband and I are both 61 so I'm sure there are lots of jobs out there waiting for a 61 year old chronically sick person (NOT)!!!!!
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The title of this blog contains the words "will it suss the scroungers" This set the tone for the show. It gave the impression that many disabled are scroungers. Are the producers of this progam proud of creating one more stick to best the disabled. Have they any idea what life is like for those of us with chronic illnesses is like. Do they recommend that we don't go out of our house, don't be seen enjoying ourselves, don't take part in charity events, don't catch trains...Life is difficult enough
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The Condition Management Programme is great for my some of my clients and certainly helps people return to work quicker.
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benhur, iv had my medical, iv appealled and failed that as im still breathing, was told next process was to go to tribunal, i applied for that in JAN 09 and i aint heard nothing about it since, so where did you get the 4 to 6 weeks from or was that a typo and should of been years or are they hoping i give up 1st
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as a disabled person .in my early 40s i was disgusted to see a lady on the same medication being told that she has to work.i have sever back problems and other congenital problems .this means that i am in sever pain all the time even with powerful pain killers .i spend all my time on my recliner with a powerful pain killing device strapped to my back .what the idiots that have invented the back to work idea don't realise is .that there is more to having a bad back than can be seen .like i can't wear any under wear or long pants because i cant stand anything on my legs i sweat alot due to the drugs that i have to take and i also have a congenital problem that gives me even more pain .i can only sleep for about 3 hours max then pain wakes me .we have had to have the house altered to accommodate my requirements{at our own expense} as the government would not help us}my pain is like a burning crushing pain i have altered sensation in both my legs and my foot feels like someone is standing on it .so i can't wear shoes .so i have to wear baggy shorts /tee short and crocs in all weathers ..not that this matters as i hardly venture outside my home .i am married to a nurse .she does her best to look after me but she works full time .without my benefit's we would be out of our home .i think that the government proposal is nuts .they want to start spending less on crap like wars and other rubbish ..in one breath they can put petrol up over night but then give away money to mew born kids its madness .all they want is more tax payers .i am fuming with the new proposals as i am sure anyone with a genuine illness is .all the things that they want to test you on have no bearing to real world living ....what has pouring milk and turning a top on got to do with back problems??anyone with a real back problem knows that it does not just end with you back it involves your legs feet and genitals its a full time problem .my pain has me in tears on a regular basic .i am in contact with hundreds of people with back problem's and you should read some of there stories it would make you cry .many have lost homes/jobs and family through it ..as you can see i am not pleased with the new proposals .the new test is not applicable to people like me and the lady that you featured on tonight's program .i just hope that it get thrown out by next April .granted there are certain individuals that abuse the system and just don't want to work .and yes they should find work but people like me that have worked for 25 years and would love to work again can't due to intractable pain the doctors don't give out morphine for fun!i a have had 2 major operations on my back and i may require another along with the operations i have had many painful procedures and none of them have helped. my life has been wrecked by pain .unforunely you cant see pain and to others i look healthy this can work against me as some think that i am a scrounger .i live in a nice part of Manchester and have a lovely home and a nice car again some get jealous when they see the 4x4 on the drive and the wife's spots car .i need a bug car as i can't get in and out of a normal car due to my back problems and i am getting aggro from some about having a 4x4 {you just can't win} my car is only 4x4 when it needs to be most of the time its two wheel drive ..i know that i have gone on a bit but as i sit here in pain and listen to the new proposals i just felt that i had to have my say .
STRAKER
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Sorry I don't work for them that what I am told,all the focus is on Job Seekers at the moment. I would suggest phoning everyday. Those who shout loudest type thing. The more complaints they have the more parliment will listen.
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great idea ben, trouble is on 64.30 i cant afford a landline only a cheap payasyougo obile, and the number is 0845, 40p plus a min sorry i cant afford that, and before people say your on the net, i have a friendly neighbour who lets me piggy back of her wireless conection
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I was devastated to leave work, and hope very much to return to light duties one day, but exhausting hours spent battling the hopeless new system actually made me worse. JobCentre staff seem more geared up to threatening recalcitrant work-refusers: they simply can't cope with the inhabitants of hospital wards and the severely disabled.
Misleadingly, your report implied employment-support services are new. They're not. Shaw Trust, your interviewee, has been providing them for years. The change is that their re-education courses are now compulsory for sick people instead of a support; essentially after-school-detention instead of tutorial coaching.
And where are the employers in all this? Missing in action...
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Anita Rani correctly pointed out that cases of fraudulent claims for incapacity benefit form a tiny minority of the total - so why did she begin her report by trotting out the same tired handful of sensationalist stories that we always hear when the subject of incapacity benefit is broached?
It has always been extremely difficult to successfully con the DWP out of incapacity benefit (or any other sickness or disability benefit). You have to pass a stringent test, in which the onus is firmly on the claimant to prove (at great length) that they are telling the truth about their illness - regardless of any corroborating evidence from their GP or consultant. The whole thing is reviewed at least every three years. The quality of decision-making by the department is consistently poor and many perfectly legitimate claimants end up having to appeal against an unjust refusal - and the success rate for these appeals is very high.
The whole process is shoddy, demeaning and exhausting. It makes you more ill, just when you should be trying to recuperate. Only a desperate person would put up with it - i.e. someone who is genuinely unable to work.
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It's obvious from the number and tone of comments added so far that the ESA medicals is an extremely frustrating process for genuine claimants and is clearly not working. However who is taking responsibility for reviewing the issues and creating the changes required to ensure it delivers to those who should be receiving this benefit?
My partner at the age of 36 was diagnosed with a chronic condition of inflammatory arthritis. He has a successful career and we both have never relied on benefits and have paid higher rate tax for many years. However he now has a severe autoimmune disease which is incurable and causes chronic pain, severe mobility and chronic fatigue. He is registered disabled. This has had a massive impact to our quality of life. Dealing with a chronic condition that registers you disabled at such a young age is difficult enough and has also caused a massive financial strain. This is a common story it seems from the comments above. You think the £64.50 a week is better than nothing, although it doesn't touch what my partner would have earned whilst he was fit to work. But low and behold, ESA medical deem him fit to work and no benefit due, but he still has a job, just deemed by GP, specialist and medical team who help manage his care, as unfit to work with a big question over whether or when he will be again. When queried with JCP, you are advised to appeal, appeal shock horror was not upheld and now awaiting tribunal - what a complete waste of taxpayers money - the whole process is full of issues, not least the procedures between JCP depts and outsource medical advisers which are not linked, decisions are made by those with no medical qualifications, medical records already available in the NHS are taken into account, the medical is not comprehensive enough, the appeals process is not managed and goes straight to a tribunal. This process doesn't allow for those with chronic conditions or those who still have a job to return to if they get better, need I go on and on ........ it's an absolute disgrace and certainly demeaning and surely a breach of human rights to put people through this who have a genuine need for care and support due to illness/disability.
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STRAKER again
just a web site that may be of help to anyone with back/neck problems .
its called /www.spine-health.com
please join us and have your say in the forums its a USA web sit but there are many from the UK .
STRAKER
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I have worked for forty years never claimed sickness benifit until
now I have fibromyalgia and high blood presure and arthritis.I have just been taken through capability at work and had my contract terminated only to be told after dwp medical that I am fit for work
when I sent for the report so I could appeal, the doctor who did the assessment prognosis was that if the medication i was put put on
helps improve my condition theres a possibility that I could be ready to go back into work in three months so who decides in dwp that im fit
its not the doctors the reason they want every one put on job seekers
is because it will save then approx £30.00 a week as the high rate of esa is just over £90.00 a week. as for cutting down on the scroungers
this wont happen because they know all the scams its the genuine sick
that suffer
mim
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This system is just crazy. I have a severe mental health problem and have been seen by consultant psychiatrist and GP who have been told that I must refrain from work for at least 6 months. I have just 'failed' the 'medical' told I had 0 points and was therefore well enough to work. This news sent me spiralling into depression and the only reason I have not committed suicide is because of the support my MH team have given me and the increase in my drugs. I asked for a copy of my medical assessment and it was slanderous and the so called assessor has recorded downright lies about me.
Well done them!! They can pick on the mentally ill because they know we are least able to defend ourselves!
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I was speechless to find that this topic was on your show tonight. I have worked for the NHS for the past 17years. I had to apply for ESA as my SSP had ran out and due to the length of time I had been off I had no pay from my employer. I was deemed unfit to return to work by the NHS and had an eight page report from and independant Occupational Therapist through the NHS but I failed the work capability assessment with DWP.
I appealled the decision and I attended a tribunal which I am glad to say was in my favour.
Only today did I receive a letter informing me of the backdated arrears to March that I was to be paid.
I agree wholeheartedly that the system is needing to be changed but the scroungers will always find a loophole they have done for years and will do for years more.
Its unfair that people who have worked,have at some point contributed have to be punished for years of neglect of weeding the system clean.
I have worked and I certainly did not see myself being pensioned off from a job that I loved but am unable to do at the age of 44.
I would like to add I had to attend a "Triage"meeting,which I shall have to do to enable me to still claim my benefit, at the first meeting I was asked if I would like to undertake new skills and duties and offered a chance to train as a Dental Nurse. I had to laugh they were offering me a new start with the NHS who at present I am on my notice of termination of employment!!!!
Surely the system is wrong someplace
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As a person with relapsing remitting Multiple Sclerosis I had to stop work when I was first diagnosed not that long ago and had to go for an ESA assessment and it was an absolute joke as the doctor never even looked at me and wrote things on the form that I did not even say and therefore did not get the ESA which has now made me unable to get DLA for the short time. I am now having to go to tribunals which has actually made my MS worse due to the stress involved and the complete injustice. I have worked all my adult life and want to return to work at some point but it is an absolute joke trying to get any form of help with ESA. I have been completely honest but unfortunately there are far too many people "playing the system" or drug users etc that get all the hand outs going but when disabled people actually need it to live and go to appointments etc they don't even believe you!
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I lost my job through anxiety and depression as well as life-long social phobia. The psychiatrist my employer sent me to see said my illness ment I would not be able to work for a long time, if ever. However fifteen minutes with a quack employed by the job centre ticking boxes, revealed that there was nothing wrong with me!!. As I was, and still am ill I could not fight this, and have been left to rot.
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I have had M.E for ten years. Previously I worked an 80 hour a week job in a hotel.
I haven't been able to have a normal life. I would love to have children, but I am just not well enough. Being able to afford to look after children of my own is incentive enough for me to get back to work.
I am disgusted about some peoples views of Incapacity claimants. The vast majority hate having to claim and are honest hard working people.
These test don't take into account illnesses like M.E, M.S etc where symptoms can range within days drastically.
Last month I could go into town, do some shopping as long as I rested afterwards. This month I have been bed ridden. I can wash, cook and clean for myself, but thats about it. If I had energy left over for any sort of work, I would do it just to get out and about and socialise.
It is obvious to anybody over the past 10 years that any incap reforms have been to tick boxes. The system is fixed to get people on JSA and I have already had to go through one appeal where they didn't even seem to know the process themselves. They treated my appeal as a complaint :eyesroll:
I can't tell you how sorry I feel for anybody getting illnesses where there pain and suffering is not visible.
Only the genuinly long term sick will understand how fixed the system is, I'm not sure anybody who is well would want to believe it tbh.
This is sad and a lot of people are and will suffer for this system. If you think this sound dramatic, then I hope you don't get an illness that is not outwardly visible any time soon. You will be in for a seriously nasty shock.
As for people not trying hard enough, it is a wonder I am not depressed or suicidal the rubbish I have been through. But I am still positive, still hoping to get back to work, and believe me there is nothing the goverment could come up with to help me back into work that I haven't thought of or tried already!
The whole thing is very patronising and adds to the negativity some illnesses are subjected to already.
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My second posting: - some advice to failed ESA claimants:-
• If refused ESA Appeal straight away. You do not need a GL24, as long as you state in your letter the reasons why you are appealing and that it is an appeal. If the DWP will not accept a letter this they are WRONG
• Request a copy of the full decision, preferable when you appeal.
• Keep the reasons for your appeal short and bullet pointed, clear and concise. I.e. “the side effects of my medication were taken into account”or“the doctor never actually examined my back” etc.
• See if your GP/Specialist etc will provide any supportive statements or evidence and submit to DWP straight away.
• Appeal straight away as then your basic rate of ESA will continue in payment.
• If your circumstances change in anyway, i.e. your condition gets worse or a new illness diagnosed or affects you contact DWP straight away.
• An appeal is a lengthy process. ESA appeals I submitted for my clients in Jan 09 are only now just coming on line. This can vary from area to area.
• If possible seek further advice, from a Law centre, CAB, Solicitors who deal in benefits etc. However, DO NOT DELAY IN SUBMITTING AN APPEAL.
• Copy in your local MP. Yes I know they might be busy buying kettles and duck houses, but ultimately the more people who raise this issue the louder the voices are and ultimately that’s why they were elected in the first place.
These are only some brief pointers. DONT give up! I hope this helps.
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I completely agree that the government are picking on the weak in order to meet targets.
I was told I was fit to work and requested a copy of the medical assessment: lo, half my data was missing. I pointed this out, and received a letter by return standing by their decision.
Ok, I'll appeal, said I. Oh, um, have a few more points and go away, they said.
What I found most jaw-dropping was the blatant dishonesty of the "decision-maker's summary": she had cherry-picked bits from the clearly contradictory medical assessment. There was not even a pretence of acting in good faith.
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I am utterly disgusted by the way this benefit is administered. I am a professional female who has never been on benefits until recently. Not only do I have epilepsy, but my Sister took her own life, leaving 2 very young children behind. I went back to work initially, but the stress, sleepless nights and epilepsy had a serious effect and my GP signed me off. My fixed term contract then ended at work and I was left on the ESA benefit. I have not been off for long, and am really keen to get back to work.
I received a letter from DWP to say that I had to undergo a medical assessment with one of their Doctors to ascertain whether i was unfit to work. I contacted them to explain that physically I am fit, mentally I certainly am not. I've been applying for jobs, and was starting to get interviews, but the fear of having to discuss the horrendous events that have taken place with a complete stranger and one that is only interested in the money (benefits) side of things filled me with utter dread. I didn't sleep for 2 nights, had more epileptic seizures (bearing in mind they had been under control for at least 5 years!!). This put my quest to find a job on hold as I was once agian unfit to hold a conversation. The reason I have been signed off is due to the trauma, shock and stress of what has happened. These things make my epilepsy worse. The DWP are compounding these symptoms, by not accepting my GPs word.
Why are the GPs in this country allowed to sign people of work? It just appears that if people are unfortunate enough to need to be on a benefit when they've paid tax and NICs all their working life, then the Government just wants to waist more tax payers money by paying for other so called DWP Doctors to ascertain whether the individuals GP was right to sign them off. Absolute madness!!
There are a few examples I can think of that really should be left to the individuals GP to deal with - Traumatic events can have a devastating effect on peoples lives - The impact is not always physical and so a stranger may not appreciate what the individual is actually going through, and having to worry about benefits on top of it is utterly disgraceful!!
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Listen to what Adviser4U and the Ben man are saying,take the advice and all use it. It may make a difference, surely we can't all be wrong,all telling lies about our illnessess, we have all been able to get it off our chests and use here tonight as a sounding board so lets all action against that appeals that we think are wrong.
In a way I have a bit of sympathy for the workers at DWP because I think a lot of them will soon be claiming ESA when there workload shoots through the roof and the stress is to much!
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I have severe mental illness with suicidal depression, mania and psychosis.
I am currently on Incapacity Benefit but dread being migrated across to ESA as I have read the descriptors and they do not seem to be relevant to my condition. There is nothing that takes into account the severe fatigue involved or the risk to myself.
Basically what the government has done with this new test is to legislate away conditions that are associated with severe fatigue such as depression, bipolar disorder, MS and ME.
At least when my grandmother was ill there was a place for her in an asylum where she could be sure of being fed - with the new rules, there will be ill people that are incapable of work with no benefits and no one to feed them.
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i had to take the "medical" i had an operation on my shoulder and am recovering from it the doctor agreed that i have a shoulder problem restricted movement etc yet on score sheet gave me 0 points job centre say i shouldn't have job seekers allowance as im not fit for work can someone explain that to me! i have appealed (in may) still waiting for a date, i am awaiting a second operation on same shoulder but cannot re apply for incapacity benefit again as they say its the same problem.is there any sites for advice on the appeal system?
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thanks Advisor4U for your hints and tips. I got three letters of support for my appeal one from my neurologist, one from my MS nurse and one from my GP all stating I was unfit to work presently and still got knocked back. Its a complete joke, i think the government should be concentrating on how the medical staff at these centres where you are assessed for ESA as clearly in my experience they need a lot more training
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The government are introducing flexible new deal for people who have been on Job Seekers Allowance for longer than a year. How many of them will have health issues after failing a medical only time will tell. Tax payer will pay twice for them as they would of already paid the provider to join Pathways to Work.
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Some useful links.
www.benefitsandwork.co.uk
www.tribunals.gov.uk
www.cpag.org.uk
www.disabilityalliance.org
www.legalservices.gov.uk
www.citizensadvice.org.uk
Remember. If in doubt ASK someone, people CAN help you.
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iv done the pathways i think, is that the one you go to a meeting once a month for 5 months, and they try to find you a job, if it is, its great for people who are out of work, but not much use for people who have got a job all ready. i wasnt prepared to give up my job, and make myself unable to claim benefits for 26 weeks
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Advisor4u - appreciate your tips and advice as people are faced with no option but trying to fight for the benefits they should be due, however this should not be the case, fundamental point is that this benefit isn't working for many who should be getting it and the government need to take note of this and action to address the issues with ESA medicals.
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I worked as a Prison Officer until 2003 when I had an accident at work. I was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia and unfortunatly have continued to get worse since. This is a chronic pain and chronic fatique condition that has many other symptoms that go with it. I was given a medical and put in front of a suitability for alternative work panel. The panel decided that as my condition varies from day to day and also on the worst days hour to hour. I am unemployable.
I have had to fight for my medical pension and for all the benefits that I receive. Not only have I had this indignity but I lost my career, my home and my marriage due to my disability. Now I am going to have to fight to keep my Inacapacity as the tests do not include my condition or take into concideration the variance of my disability. I belong to a chronic pain support group and the fear and interogation techniques employed by the goverenment is only causing disabled people who live in the grey zone of the black and white testing to go through hell.
I did not ask to be disabled and I would not wish it on anyone. All we are asking for is that the government adhere to the posotive descrimination bill for the disabled and treat us with dignity and as individual cases.
And not add to our disability by bullying us so that they can still let the scroungers win as they know all the tricks and as usual the innocent are easy targets. OUR ONLY CRIME IS THAT WE ARE DISABLED.
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but they wont
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Just for clarification - The ESA medical is not an assessment based on how your health/condition affects you - it is based on the positive and decided not by the health care professional who examines you ( this can be a nurse and not a doctor)the assessment for mental health problems is based on basic questions like, can you make a cup of tea, do you like to watch TV or read magazines, do you have a pet, etc this is then inputed into a computer programme called the LiMA programme which then transposes the basic answers to baisc questions and these are then supposed to address the meltal health descriptors, which are not basic at all.
One point to mention that is important is Reg 29 of the ESA Regs " If found fit for worrk would there be a risk to you or others in the work place" Now this is important if your have a job but your employer and GP say your not fit for work. You have to explain what the risk is and that it would be against Health & safety At Work Regs 1974 - Give an example of any potential accidents.
The LiMA programme is based on "The most seen health conditions in benefit claiments and up to date medical knowledge and protocols" ie a computer decides if you are fit for work and wat your GP or specislist says is put on the back burner untill you get to a Tribunal.
The concept nehind the idea is that all people are fit for some kind of work, whether its licking envelopes or puching a button. It doe snot address the problems of health in the work place, variability of conditions or full time permanant work.
ALL WAYS appeal a decision as 90% of incapcity benefit appeals are won - although ESA was brought out to make it more difficult to pass - not impossible though - SEEK GOOD Welfare Benefits Advice and dont take it lying down.
Col
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It still works for you who are returning to work to your old job as you maybe elgible to return to work tax credits. These are tax free simple to claim and worth £40 a week for a year. Also Working Tax credits can pay more for being on a health related benefit when you return to work. The system maybe wrong but quite often the back to work tax credits can help the gradual return to work. Direct .gov website gives you the info you need. You must claim these within 5 weeks of returning to work though.
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Sorry my name was missing from that post _ Welfarecol
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Atos are the private company that provide the medical assesment for ESA
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I do agree with dundee cake its time to vent our spleens (pun not intended). I had a horrific telephone call to attend an interview
on pathways by mistake as a new claiment, and complainted to my M.P.
that i had a number of chronic conditions neurologically based. and could no way attend, they said they were sorry and said they would review my situation in three years time but as legislation seems to be altered over night goal posts moved, to feed the frenzy of tabloid
reading brainless zombies M.Ps included, who support this silly paradox of contradictarory benefit legislation.
yes even employing more people to handle the mess and paying large amouts of tax payers money to so called agencies, who have not got a clue!!! what on earth is going on! I hope you all can get someone to type for you or write a letter to your m.p. and send them a copy of this blog, or tell them your story send them a copy of your appeal letter. they will all be up for re-election soon!!!!
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i agree with the majority of people on here, i have been recently diagnosed with fibromyalgia and have been off work since aug 2008 due too this, so after a year of waiting for a diagnosis and regular drs appts and meetings with work neither of which will currently let me return to work spent 30 mins havin the medical for my esa in wich 30 min she decided i MAY be able to consider a return to work within 3 months, of which the medical had questions answered that i had not even been asked and i too was given the only option of claiming jobseekers, which as i am still employed am not entitled to claim, (so case being if even if she thinks i could return to work in 3 months what am i supposed to live on during this time) i struggle to get about day to day and normal daily tasks yet for some reason people who are completely able of going to work dont seem to have the problems we get recieving thier money, i am a single parent who is having to get my 12 yr old daughter to dress me on a daily basis a i am unable to bend to dress my lower half, and such people they show u on telly recieving disability and running the london marathon and such things just makes my blood boil!!!!!!!!!
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I think this scheme is utterly useless. my father has been claiming incapity benefit since his early twenties due to health problems such as diabeties, heart and arthiritis ,my mother is his carer. He is now 50 and seriously worried about the scheme coming into effect next april.
if the judgement is based on minor things like picking up a pencil instead of looking at long periods of cronic health issues then this scheme is a total waste of our economy.
yes i agree with fnding those who claim falsely but i strongly agree with support and advice being given to those who truly deserve to be claiming benefits.
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If you want people on Incapacity Benefit to go back to work, get the employer to employ those of us who want to work. I was born disabled, worked and now on incapacity benefit. Went back to college for three years training as a design and cabinet maker and wood machine operator in City Guilds and when I went to job interviews I still got asked if I could use a chisel or saw. I am now going to work for myself.
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Straker......I assume you recieve more than £60 -£70 then.Geezo what ammo you have given to the new system supporters.
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This is yet another stupid idiotic idea which is only going to make outside companies money. They maintain that they will reduce the unemployment bill for a fee! They charge around £100.00p a week per person to so called train people into work, also they get bonuses when they get a person into work. They cannot loose. The only looser is the victim they insist is fit for work. And also the tax payer who is still having to pay for the benefits plus the charge made by the firms running the courses. In theory it sounds great, but it simply will not work. We are yet again going down another dead end street idea which is designed to sound good but will only cause severe distress for genuine ill people. This is not going to reduce unemployment. Any idiot can see that. I look forward to seeing people in genuine pain stacking shelves at the local supermarket with the tears running down their face as they face their pain or mental problems. Watching them climb steps whist holding onto their crutches and the cans of food, it will be hilarious. To see them rolling around the floor in agony or crumbling with mental phobias/illness will bring great satisfaction and amusement whilst shopping. I cant wait. Also i will feel sorry for the poor unemployed people who will have to be satisfied with even fewer jobs because the jobs are being filled with sick people. Makes perfect sense to me well done MP's. Keep up the good work. I do agree that some disabled people will be glad for this opportunity but it should not be forced but offered. As to fraudster, if the punishment was made more severe then maybe they would think twice.
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I haven't worked for 4 years now due to mental health issues, Social phobia (An anxiety disorder which means interaction with people is hard and sometimes impossible) in particular. I have been on Incapacity benifits for most of that time!
Now last year I was asked to go for an independent medical examination by the DWP which turned out to be the new points system evaluation that you were talking about in tonights show. I went along and answered all the questions as honestly as possible, but did wonder why I was being asked wether I could work a microwave and what 92-3 was!!!
But I foolishly thought they new what they were doing, even though there was no questions which seemed to relate to my mental health....hmmm
It then took them 2 weeks to process my results, but I waited eagerly to hear from them.
I was amazed when a letter arrived saying that I was no longer eligable to recieve incapacity benifit..........And that I was fit to work!!!!!
On their system you must score at least 10 to be eligable, their evaluation gave me 4 points, and our (myself and the person at the CAB) put my score at 22 points!! A clear difference.
Blind panic is all I can remember of the next few days, until a family member suggested I go to the Citizens Advice Bureau.
This turned out to be a good move on our part, as there is a very specific way to appeal their decision, which if we had attempted to do it ourselves would have got it wrong. At the CAB they were very helpful and took it out of my hands and appealed on my behalf.
They did inform me however that I may have to go to a tribunal in order to get my benifits back, which terrified me to my core!!
So not only was my only income stopped, I may have to potentially go in front of a panel, therefore jeopardizing what small progress I had made in order to get it back.
Luckily for me the over turned their decision as soon as the CAB became involved......I really can't praise the CAB enough!!
A small part of me believes that they were counting on me not being fit to go through their appeal system and it worries me that there are others out there that won't feel up to appealing for what is rightfully theirs!
I truly believe this is a flawed system, that is heavily stacked in the DWP's favour especially when it comes to mental health.
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BBC propaganda yet again, propaganda supporting Government policies and yet again manipulated and distorted BIAS in favour of Government Policies.
"The title of this blog contains the words "will it suss the scroungers" This set the tone for the show. It gave the impression that many disabled are scroungers. Are the producers of this progam proud of creating one more stick to best the disabled. Have they any idea what life is like for those of us with chronic illnesses is like. Do they recommend that we don't go out of our house, don't be seen enjoying ourselves, don't take part in charity events, don't catch trains...Life is difficult enough"
Besides that, whilst the system is being manipulated in such despicable ways, spare a thought for those genuine who will be suffering an onslaught of physiological attacks, which of course is most helpful, is it not?
Those who are able to work, should work, those who are genuinely suffering chronic illness, should be supported more and left alone.
Mere bullying upon easy targets, with a system that is inadequate and confused.
What about the Bankers Trillions then? Aye! What about the army of bureaucrats taking extorting salaries, whilst services are being reduced? How can issues like this be justified, but yet it's okay to attack those who have no voice?
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Yes, have to agree with wOOtworld.
This is so serious that a response from the producer of
the program is needed.
1. why,' Will it suss the scroungers?' was used in the heading
and on the program.
2. why was Lord McKenzie, Minister for Work and Pensions who said quote "we believe it's a potentially more effective assessment - making sure people are on the right benefit for them".
Not asked about people with chronic pain, and why there is no provision for them in the esa scheme indeed if they refuse to attend a medical examination, benefits will be halved or reduced to as little as 10p!
You See BBC when you act like this in a bias way you will get responses like wOOtworld and mine.
I hope panorama researchers will now put a program together that looks at the unfairness of the esa and not the claptrap of there last bias pca program they did last year from Merthyr.
Otherwise the other lot with dispatches may give us a more non pro government approach as they are not scared there chairman will be sacked as the BBCs one was for taking a view over Iraq!!!
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I am in no doubt that there are many 'scroungers' out there, but make no mistake, this isn't about weeding them out or as they are so fond of saying, supporting those who need it.
The new medical is unfair to a lot of conditions and the report sent by the medical official is interpreted by someone with no medical training at the DWP.
After a bad fall last year, I badly injured my coccyx (tailbone) which, if anyone has ever done it, will know how painful that is. When an MRI was done, I was also found to severe disc degeneration.
I have been on several pain medications, the best of which have serious side effects affecting my concentration and awareness of danger (other pain meds have made me hallucinate) but there is no box to tick on the DWP test so I am forced to go through the very stressfull appeal process.
Despite saying on the first page of the medical report (which you can obtain and I would advise everyone to do just that) that my medication makes me almost drunklike and drowsy, that has not been taken into consideration.
I have job paying a lot more than the pittence that the government pays out being held open for me.
If I was fit to work I would be at work.
If I was safe to be at work I would be at work.
The DWP are very quick to say that people who fail their test are fit to work but go very quiet when they're asked what jobs they are fit to do.
I would love to know the names of companies who would employ someone suffering the drunklike drowsy side effects that I have to live with, I would love to know so that I could stay as far away from them as possible.
Would you buy something that had been made by that company?
At no point in this ridiculous process (until the appeal hearing) is the opinion of GP's, several examined me over the past ten months and declared me as being unfit to work or Physios, Surgeons and hospital specialists. Instead the opinion of an ATOS medical person is taken as the only opinion worth anything.
The doctor on your show said that GP's shouldn't be responsible for saying who is fit to work but if not them, then surely hospital personnell like specialists and physio's who are trained to deal with illnesses and can say for definate if someone is faking or not.
The real problems with this process is the fact that it is so inflexible and that the 'decision makers' have no medical training (it actually says on the DWP training that ATOS staff should refrain from medical terms so that DWP staff can understand the report!!!!).
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Another question for lord McKenzie, Is why are people who qualify
taking a payment cut. even the highest payment on the esa is £102
rising next April to £108, where a pca tested Incapacity benefit is at present £107 ??? Yes this is Really looking after the ones that truley need it. The unfortunate thing is the Torys do not oppose this legislation, even the lib dems support it!!!
I will continue to write to my M.P. Andrew Smith who was the minister to set this ball rolling with this legislation in 2002, by the way he is in a very marginal seat now! So he has some sympathy !!!
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I am writing about the New Benefits Test that was talked about on last night's show. I was born with athotoid cerebral palsy with means that I have poor co-ordination, speech and balance but have normal intelligence. In May 2001 I graduated from the Open University with a 2:2 in Social Sciences with Social Policy. I am a lady with an awful lot of get up and go so as soon as I knew that I had got my degree I contacted my local disability employment advisor to discuss my employment options. The disability employment advisor was extremely dismissive and told me to forget employment. This attitude has been repeated everytime I ask any sort of careers officer. I know that is more than likely I will not been deemed as employable when I take this New benefits test. BUT I WANT TO WORK. I would like to write which is something I could do from home. I have already written a draft for a novel and have a blog under the name biskigirl. I would love a publishing contract but know this is doubtful. I would also love to write a column in a newspaper but know the chances of that happening is non-existant. I have done hours and hours of volunteering which in my 20s was fun but now in my 40s I found more than a little patronizing. I have a very good brain but am not using it to is full potential. I have tried everything to publicize my situation but no one really is bothered. I am deeply concerned about my future.
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Well, off topic: but when will we all see and hear about accountability for all and not just the vulnerable? I mean really, when will we have compulsory drug testing of all those in the public sectors? Such like is badly needed, because over the Past 10 years, so many harebrained ideas have come to the fore. Most of which must Have been dreamt up by someone either on illegal drugs or they themselves need Physiological treatment; they most certainly are not in touch with real society. Like everything we see and hear today, misguided, manipulated and distorted Policies are frequently put into place. The computer system that is used is without a doubt riddled with parasites, viruses, because it's BIAS and in no way Constructive.
Let's face it; the whole system is rotten to the core.
Furthermore, it appears that every day the BBC feels it's in a position of Judge, Jury and executioners. The BBC have yet again managed to demean itself into such Low standards of broadcasting, by highlighting such an important issues, in such BIAS ways. The BBC have been running a program Saints and Scroungers, every morning for the last two weeks or so and whilst some fraudulent people have been highlighted, these are merely people that have hit newspapers over the past few years, so nothing new.
Now BBC isn't it about time you also showed them poor unfortunate soles that are badgered and bullied by media organisations such as yours. I mean show how that struggle against a system that generates vulnerabilities, only to exploit them in various ways, mostly to line the pockets of others. Or how about those poor vulnerable families living in the rundown council estates, that has received no investment over the past 20 years or so, but yet Government have received Trillions from sale of Housing Stock, not to mention of course that so many have been and are in work paying rents. Rental incomes that Government sidetrack into other areas, instead of reinvesting back into the upkeep.
Would you like to hear more factual discussion? I know it's easier for reporters and presenters to grab headlines with such BIAS stories, but maybe work a little harder and research better would achieve far greater and fairer results for all concerned. You see unfortunately for the like of the BBC, some of us live in the real world and have well balanced life experience, which sadly is lost in today's society.
You our society is so unbalanced, it's a social crime.
This also clearly demonstrates the measures of the system and those civil servants within it, in that such people are merely childlike bullies, hiding behind a childlike system. Dare I state the blindingly obvious, in that should such people be placed in direct line of fire, they would through their toys out of the pram, crying themselves? Hence why such a system and such people will never earn any form of respect.
Now then, would you like to discuss the endless flaws within the data system, you know the system written to allow doctors exploit the taxpayers’ with large bonuses for every single person deemed fit for work, based on the outcomes of such a BIAS data system? Shall we also discuss the unprofessional behaviour by ATOS Healthcare Doctors, whom after all is a private organisation seeking profits?
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I agree with the vast majority, in that those who can work should work, but I don't think those with chronic illness should be forced to work. At this point may I say that in my opinion Dr Sarah Jarvis demonstrated that she is an hypocrite, has she supports such changes, whilst I'm sure she has signed thousands unfit for work during her time as a GP.
Let's face it, these welfare reforms are merely to place people into further hardships and vulnerable positions. Sure should they be fortunate enough to obtain consistent employment, they will feel highly delighted that they are contributing to the bail out from the Trillions of debt we are now experiencing, because of the irresponsible and down right greedy middle classes. After all, it was and has always been the actions of the middle classes upwards that have created such burdens upon society in the UK. Such people have always made the mistakes and expect the working class to get them out.
This is reforms to end all welfare and make everyone work until they die, preferably on the job, so no sickness costs.
The computer system operated by ATOS is manipulated and distorted in favour of the direction to force everyone back to work or more vulnerable. It is also true that ATOS is another private organisation, whom sole focus is upon profits and the staff focus upon bonuses.
So again it is merely exploitation, attacking the genuinely ill, because it would be too much like hard work to actually stop the guilty.
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I have been on support allownce 13weeks, and just gone 4 the medical i have been told i have been placed ont the work related group. I had a op in Dec 2008 half Knee replacement after 6 weeks of pain and many trips 2 AE they decided to xray,it was found to have a fracture of the proximal tiba. Had to have 5 more ops and still not able to walk with out sticks swelling is 3 times the size, they have had to stop physo and put me in 2 reabilation. I am on controlled drugs for the pain and also morphine as a PRN.I dont sleep 3 hours on a good night. I only leave the house 4 appointments, some one has to be with me. What do i do? I have never claimed a benifit in my life i am 54 and have also lost my job. HELP ME!!!!!!!
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It is not about the scroungers.
The truth is it is about outside companies getting paid to do this to people.
The more victims/ humans they get on their schemes the more they get paid.
I honestly compare them to TV auction sales because they convince our stupid politicians that they need them.
Almost everything now is run by outside companies.
We have been sold down the river.
Our council houses, refuse and recycling and health service etc etc is now run by outside companies all taking a cut and making a profit.
And the latest is this type of company which targets the unemployment and benefits section due to massive potential profits/victims.
Its no wonder we are in so much debt and have such stupid laws.
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The very mention of ESA gives me a feeling of dread, nausea and just wanting to hide under the covers. After years of struggling to continue working in a job that I loved and was reasonably well paid I had to take ill health retirement. I tried part time work, changing shifts, altering workload and type of work. but had to admit defeat. The pain and fatigue were too much at one point I could not even lift a up cup of tea.
My medical condition is reviewed regularly by my consultant, I also see a physio and specalist nurse. My occupational doctor declared me medically unfit for role. BUT the ESA medical report states I can return to work after more than six months, recognise the phrase? I wonder what button they have to push on the computer to print that one.
I have no pain free days, my fatigue is managed by resting every day on my bed as recommended by my specalist, can I take my bed to work?
I also have many other symptoms. My condition has no cure but will get worse over time with more and more disability. I have not only had to face the nature of my disease, but the loss of career, the loss of my health, the loss of activities like dancing or going for a walk but thanks to the whole process of claiming benefit the loss of dignity with the bonus of a bucketful of stress.
I can look forward to a very stress filled retirement, filled with battles with the DWP medicals and poverty. Haven't yet claimed DLA as book to stressful to fill in, I will have to do it soon though as the government have a green paper out to try and do away with DLA and AA.
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Let's be clear. The plan to reduce those on sickness benefits from 2.6 million to 1.6 million has nothing to do with benefit recipients themselves, or their actual sickness or disability.
It's a figure plucked from the air to make government sums work:
"[T]he government has set itself a long term aim of 80% employment. By historical and international standards this is clearly an ambitious aspiration - probably the most ambitious made in the area of employment policy. Only one country in the world, Iceland, has employment substantially above 80%.
"The Department has said in its Green Paper ['A New Deal for Welfare: Empowering People to Work] that, in order to achieve 80% employment:
• the lone parent employment rate would need to increase to 70%;
• the incapacity benefits caseload would need to reduce by one million;
• the number of older workers in employment would need to increase by one million."
—The Freud Report, 2007
(This, of course, was before the recession. But never fear, the govt are pressing on regardless.)
To be fair, they did commission a literature survey by Gordon Waddell at the University of Cardiff to try to support their position. Which they misquote and cherry-pick from at will: the One Show's interviewees blandly stated that "work is good for your health"; the survey says "beneficial health effects depend on the NATURE AND QUALITY OF WORK" and some "may experience contrary health effects from work".
This is a defining moment for the welfare state. We have to decide whether we pay taxes to provide a genuine safety-net for the most vulnerable in their hour of need. Or an ineffectual but very expensive fig-leaf to save the fittest from guilt.
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It is well known in the disability community tht the contractors appointed by the DWP are on a financial bonus scheme for getting claimants moved from disability benefits onto the new ESA Benefits. If you saw someof the quuestions that they used to make their decisions, you would be astounded....one question is 'Can you watch television' - a yes answer leads to the claimant being fit for computer work, there is no thought for any other issues that may be involved. I can watch the TV, but I have several disabilities, medical conditions and mental health issues - all of which must be managed by me to allow me to carry out any daily activities.
Adam.
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Once again the BBC doing the dirty of the government by painting disabled people as scroungers and fraudsters. How about the BBC concentrating of white collar fraud or better still MPs fiddling their expanses!!!
Shame on the BBC for attacking the most vulnerable in society.
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Like so many disabled people on here have posted, it is hard enough living with a long term degenerative disability, without the added insult of being labelled a "benefit scrounger". I was amazed and astonished at the "biased bbc viewpoint" on the "one show", but most of all it made me angry. I like so many other disabled people would love to return to work, but the focus is not on putting the framework in place to allow this to happen, but a cost cutting measure targetting the sick and disabled. the easy option for the government that is "new labour".
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I find it astonishing that an independant government funded agency, (ATOS) is employed by the government to make a medical judgement on a person for ESA, given that they have no medical knowledge of that individual or expertise. the GP or Hospital consultants diagnosis is "disregarded" unless the individual is pronounced "fit for work".
It is only if the individual appeals, then the GP or Hospital Consultants report is acknowledged or taken into consideration and
reviewed. What next? to "rename" Disability living allowance and make everyone re- apply? or "abolish it totally" to save government money?
poppycock!!!!!!.........
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ESA medicals are not helping disabled people at all. Why arn't disabled people with chronic incurable painfuls conditions not put in the Support Group? There medicals are not fair for all illnesses. Living with severe chronic pain is a struggle to just get through the day, even if I could get a job, I know I won't be reliable as my illness is to painful and I need very careful management not to end up in hospital on a regular basis. The ESA may work for some illnesses but not all!
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If you have experience of how ESA is working or more likely not working and want to help us get it changed please come and join the fight at CarerWatch or WelfareWatch.
In particular we are trying to get the government to protect people with severe and enduring mental illness from sanctions and 'conditionality' by putting them in the 'support' group. Professor Gregg who designed ESA told us that the 'support' group was put there to provide protection for seriously ill and vulnerable people and currently almost no one is being allocated to it. In the 'support group' all back to work help is available but in a voluntary way so it is safe for people with schizophrenia and bi polar.
But there are many other people with severe illness and disability who also need this protection. Please come and help us.
http://carerwatch.com/
http://welfarewatch.myfineforum.org/
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I agree about the clear bias the bbc is showing against the sick and disabled, I have not seen this episode yet, but will hopefully watch it on iplayer. However the article alone speaks volumes, and saints and scroungers was a good example of bias and poor reporting.
ATOS who do the medicals use software called lima.
That software basically is responsible for your fate (as the decision maker at the dwp relies heavily on the report produced by it as the evidence to allow or deny a claim).
That software is owned by the DWP.
The dwp will not release the software for examination to anyone, so no one can prove the software is either far - or not. It is denying people the right to natural justice.
The reason they wont release it is because they get royalties from atos when atos sells/licences the software to others (such as the prison service, royal mail, co op etc).
Many people are unfairly kicked of the benefits.
The bbc needs to do some serious investigation in order to restore balance, and remove the bias it has shown so far.
There is lots of evidence for any credible investigative journalist to use - so why have the bbc not done so?
Many people already are suffering, and many more will.
Is this england, or nazi germany - A question I once asked the prime-minister on one of his blogs, which I note he has still chosen not to answer. Must be such a hard question for him to answer.
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Also - the doctor featured on that program clearly knows LITTLE or NOTHING in my opinion about incapacity benefit, as she made the same mistake Frued did, by claiming GP's are the ones that decide if people are entitled to incapacity benefit.
her exact words
"Im also really glad that gp's aren't as we used to in the old days expected to be the ones who decide if their fit for work or not"
Claimaints were tested previously to ESA, on Incapacity the GP was not the one that decided, that was down to a private company, ATOS examining the claimaint, and a non medically trained person using that report to decide the entitlement.
Please bbc - if you are going to interview people about serious subjects, get people who dont talk rubbish.
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The LiMA programme is not owned by the DWP - it was researched and developed by the DWP and ATOS - the rights belong to ATOS - the so called specialist's and reasearch that the programme is reliant upon is owned and copyright is owned bt ATOS - no matter how you request details of the programme (and all my submissions for appeals request this, without success, are never forthcoming from the tribunal, althought the appeal is won)even freedom of information requests will not be successful as ATOS is a private company and does not come under the rules of governemet.
The poor, sick and disabled are bening fukc'd by spin as they are the easy target. Dont foraget that any fraud for any benefit is no more than 1.5 % of the total welfare budget - dont be conned by spin. There is more not paid to claiments who are entitlend and more paid by DWP error than by fraud.
Each and everyone of you should send a letter to your MP and local paper about the so-called "Medical" also make a complaimt to ATOS and the DWP that the Doctor or "Health Care Proffessional" who may be a nurse, did not examine you but just asked basic questions and told you - that doesn't count !
Welfare Col
Seek advice an dbe pro-active
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Im sorry, but your wrong about the DWP not owning the rights to LIMA.
They own the lot and sublicence ATOS to sell it to others (and use it for dwp medicals)
Qoute
"In this regard, we can tell you that DWP holds copyright, the intellectual property rights and has licensed a third party to use, customise, distribute, incorporate, market, maintain, support, sell and sub-license LiMA (and other software) in return for payment of a royalty to DWP. In that licence, DWP confirms that it will not, in effect, allow any other party similar rights.
The LiMA software program is not only integral to the conduct of DWP business, it also represents a significant commercial interest to the DWP. Therefore we decline to provide the software, any technical or other information that would enable full or partial reproduction of the LiMA system."
Please refer to this page for full details
http://www.ukbix.com/viewtopic.php?t=195&f=12
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Bit of a differeance ther about who owns and who can publish details of the programme - its clear that details of the research and "who" was involved ie the specialist's and their field and wat reasearch this was based on etc - the end result is it wont be published or released - I was originaly informed that ATOS have the rights and as its commercial it cannot be released by the governement.
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Yes, misleading info about the ownership of lima has been given out by them in the past, for some reason..
There remains a possiblity of release if a successful challenge to their response can be made. If it can be found the have not followed all the rules of the foi act to the letter etc.
Its certainly in the public interest it should be released, but they certainly seem determined to never do so. Although, in time it will have to be released as their are time limits over things like commercial concerns (although by then in 30 years or so, few would care, and it would just retrospectively proof people now were treated unfairly, but the chance of successful justice 30 years on is slim...)
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The problem with some of these tests is that they only see a little bit of you. Many of us with long term illnesses will have good and bad days and/or good an bad parts of the day.
You could look at me sometimes and see a healthy person and then look another time and think I am about to expire. So if I had the test on a very good day I would fail and be fit for work but if I had the test on a bad day I would fail and be classed as unfit.
The way it works means that you have focus on the negative aspects of your life rather than to positives. This is really unfair to people and does not help them feel any better about their condition and puts some people in need off claiming.
I do understand that some people are swinging the lead and that they should be weeded out. The problem is though, that often they are not the ones that so get taken off benefits as they are very good at pretending they can't do things, where someone with a illness/dissability will keep trying to do things no matter what pain or discomfort it causes them and this in the scheme of things works against them
Last time I had an IB fitness for work check (2006 old style) the carpets in the building made my breathing very difficult so the doctor could clearly see I was unwell but he asked such silly questions, like what time did I go to bed, what time did I get up, did I listen to the news and stuff like that.
Why is it when they are talking about getting disabled people off benefits and back to work they tell us that we will be happier and have greater self esteem, we will have something to do to occupy us. Ok some people may be but not all of us veg out in front of the TV and do nothing all day. We are happy, I am happy I have taken another breath.
I am 53 years old, I have chronic asthma, COPD, abnormalities in my lungs ( kinked up tubes), degeneration of the cervical vertebrae, joint problems and I am anti-social. I don't think I could cope with having to get dressed every day and go out.
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Basically let's face it! You'd have to be dead to get enough points to pass their test. By the way I have written to my MP Mark Tami for Flintshire North Wales. He has sent me a copy of a letter he has written to the Sec of State for DWP. No reply yet as she maybe away in her second home eh? I would advise all of you to do likewise and write to your MP even if just to not allow apathy to creep in here and just lie down and take it. Let's bombard them and let them know how we feel. Thanks to the BBC for their comments (not) implying everyone is a scrounger. This is our right actually as we have paid into the system for years unlike some I could mention but won't. Come on - go for it and let's stick together on this. Good luck to you all!!
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To see Welfare Advisors & others like benhur working in the system speaking up for & advising us, is heart-warming. Thank you all!
This abuse & devastation of the sick & disabled must not be allowed to continue. Others have accurately & quite rightly mentioned the similiraties to Nazi Germany. Remember T4? It was the disabled population who were quietly & systematically murdered before they set to work on the Jewish population.
The cry of "NEVER AGAIN!" means just that. What this Govt are doing may not be actual murder but it will lead to many suicides amongst the vulnerable people our society & our laws are meant to protect.
Disabled people are not lazy or workshy & they are not scroungers. Often they make the best employees in their efforts to overcome disability & the prejudice & bullying that comes with the territory.
Some will never be able to work, some can hold down full time jobs & some can manage a few hours or part-time work. Some will need a little support & some will need much more. These are the facts & the LIMA software, ATOS Doctors & Nurses who've had 3 days training are not fit for the purpose of deciding who's fit for work & who's not.
The BBC & other channels & the Newspapers need to do a serious expose on what's really happening.
Where are the serious Journalists & Documentary makers who wish to protect vulnerable people from further harm & help us force this Government to serve rather than destroy? Or is it only the French who know how to do that?
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The thing that I really don't think the goverment understands is this fact...
You can't magic people well, they have got to go somewhere. Your incapacity receivers will become long term unemployed, homeless or dead.
With the stress you are going to put them through it is gonna cost the tax payer a fortune in medical bills. Many with Biological illnesses with have or get secondary mental illness from the stress of being made to work in impossible situations.
I will probably be better off without Incap as my medical costs are getting silly. I won't have to pay for the dentist etc. CAN"T WAIT!
It is a total false economy that the tax payer will have to pay for. I have already payed plenty of tax before I got ill and got a rubbish service in return.
I am not suddenly gonna get well because the goverment says so, I have been struggling to get well for 10 years.
I used to work damm hard and have a full sense of social responsibility!
If I am made to work I will not hide on JSA or ELA. I will damm well turn up and till I physically drop, then what will that cost.
You not getting me excepting the humiliation of being titled as unemployed I'm damm right ill and you will recognize!
Don't you think society will notice all these ill people on the streets at some point ? don't you think at some stage they are going to find out whats going on ?
You maybe able to convince them that the disabled are scrounging lay abouts for a while, but you won't be able to keep it up forever!
This idea is so floored it would be funny if it wasn't going to mean extreme hardship and prejudice for most and may even turn some to suicide. The fact that this is even happening in the UK makes me won't to give up. Where did all the love go ?
Fact is the majority of people want to work and it is always , ALWAYS the minority that want to go against the grain. The thought that the majority of incap are scroungers goes against human nature and history.
I can't believe somebody thinks they are going to get away with this. I think anybody, company, media, whatever should be recorded so this doesn't happen again, named and shamed! Including anybody that works for such companies.
There is no place for private sector when it comes to dealing with this sort of thing, and anybody working for commission and not hearing alarm bells is just turning a blind eye and should be ashamed of themselves!
Anybody can get illnesses, many are transient and also invisible to these tests. Could be you, your dad, son-daughter.
Then where will your self richous attitudes about the disabled leeching of the well be ?
If all the major parties weren't disgracefully behind this id say something about votes too.
I can't believe our politicians and media have stooped so low. In my experience what goes around comes around. Keep digging BBC the disabled community will not forget your be-trail in a hurry that's for sure!
The one show is alevel journalism, are not embarrassed, do none of you have disabled family or friends.
BBC you need a medical assement because you are sick.
'work is medically proven to be good for you' or whatever the quote was.
Never have I felt so patronized or wanted to slap somebody in the face so much :/
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I have been moved by the gastly stories concerning ESA.
I do hope the researchers and producer of the one show, will take time to read all the posts on this blog, the vast majority rejecting
and complaining about the very unfair system and giving good reason.
please would you do a follow up program where these concerns can be
examined properly!!
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Hello Again
since this programme was aired on Wed, and in additon to my previous 2 entries, I just want to add this:- In my role as a welfare rights advisor, in the last 2 days, I have seen 9 ESA Appeals locally and my co advisor has seen 5.No one scored more than 6 points. I think the BBC's coverage was inaccurate, they need to get their facts right. The we are up against, perhaps she does a bit on the side for ATOS. I just hope none of these people ever actually get Ill, through no fault of their own. I hope someone will wake up and SCRAP ESA. It is NOT WORKING for goodness sake. You dont need to be a high and mighty politician or professor to see that. Come and spend a week with me IN THE REAL WORLD !
Finally, the case i mentioned about the lady with a double mascetomy? in my previous blog, you will be pleased to know we had success and the decision was overturned in her favour, though reviewed in 6 months, its a start! Anyway, I feel that a nationwide survey needs to be done to show ESA is nothing but political statitics and discrimination. Come on BBC do the decent thing!
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I hope someone at the BBC is reading this blog too.
My adult son is severely disabled & will be adversly affected by ESA. I care for him alone, am almost 60yrs old, have become ill & disabled myself through the demands of caring & receive no support or respite care from Social Services. I should have claimed DLA for myself 3yrs ago but don't have the time or the strengh to do so.
My son wants desperately to work but needs considerable support to engage in the workplace. Enforcement into the wrong type of work would result in a nervous breakdown & suicide attempts.
"What will happen to my son if anything happens to me?" Is a question & a fear live with daily.
With ESA & ATOS walking over the disabled with their hobnail boots my fears for our survival are becoming unbearable.
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Dear ONE SHOW team we've blogged and told you what we think, why doesn't the producer make an entry. there's enough information in this Blog to slam the Government, the ESA, the agencies making money out of forcing disabled people to work when they shouldn't. You have interactive software so interact!
Maybe you need to spend just one day in a wheel chair and use a bus, train or tube and go shopping. Then you might realise what its like to have mobility problems. Try having a shower when you can't balance. We are not scroungers we are people who need support.
The first test to see if you are from the limited capability for work assessment?
You will be exempt if:
* You are terminally ill and your death can reasonably be expected within 6 months.
* You are receiving, or recovering from receiving, intravenous, intraperitoneal or intrathecal chemotherapy.
* You have a notifiable disease or have been in contact with someone with a notifiable disease.
* You are a pregnant woman and there is a serious risk of damage to your health or to the health of your unborn child if you do not refrain from work.
* You are a pregnant woman entitled to maternity allowance.
* You are a pregnant woman within 6 weeks of your expected confinement date or 14 days after the date of your confinement where you don’t have any entitlement to maternity allowance or statutory maternity pay.
How many chronically ill people would be exempt? Not if you have a degenerative disease like PD, nor MS, nor Motor Neurone. They are the wrong questions -it's obvious to those who want to see.
So Mr Producer Blogg-On
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"Dear ONE SHOW team we've blogged and told you what we think, why doesn't the producer make an entry"
^BUMP^
Quick enough to slang decent people off, why not defend your fictitious, manipulated and distorted reporting.
It's like a breath of fresh for me to read many others also make a voice based upon faction and not fiction, experience and text.
Yet another example of the BIAS BBC, bad reporting, aye! And they rip us off with TV licence. How do you justify that scam and that is one of the biggest scams going, daylight robbery, legalised crooks.
Defend yourselves with substance...
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why are you not trying to save your dla and or attendance allowence being scrapped soon ?
sign petition online at www.politicalcripple.com join petition signing days
bristol at colledge green 28th september1130 hours
taunton 29th september warrens the bakers 1330 hours
make a petition signing day of your own visit the website for more details and events no more tiny tim act now ?
http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/disabilit...la)/dla-aa-cuts
please only reply with sensible answers if you dont want to loose dla then contact me now via www.politicalcripple.com
i am just a individual who with the support of the website get my message as a carer out in to the public eye you can as well
1 contact your mp
2 sign petitions
3 contact every media outlet today and every day untill they let you speak
4 get thousands of signatures
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Dear One Show,
It must be abundantly clear to you by now that this whole ESA thing is a complete farce. Worse though is the damage that is being done to sick people who have been wrongly diagnosed by the so called healthcare professionals. I estimate that my road to recovery has been set back by 6 months or more. If my health continues to deteriorate I will end up back in hospital with a cost to the government of about £1000 per night. Please please make a program that reflects the reality of the situation. SICK PEOPLE WHO ARE TOO POORLY TO WORK ARE LOSING THEIR BENEFITS, MANY OF THEM ARE TOO POORLY TO DO ANYTHING TO HELP THEMSELVES.
In my own case due to the stress of having 'failed' the 'medical' I now have had my meds more than doubled to help me cope. That alone is costing the country more than an additional £100 a month.
I can tell you exactly what needs to be done to dig out the truth in all this farce!
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Incapacity pay my stamp as due to Women being allowed to opt out of stamp paying I do not have enough credits to claim incapacity. Have had two Mental breakdowns (hospitalised and sectioned for) in last three years). Due to severe reactions to a typical antipsychotic medication prescribed (drugs turned me into automaton, tardive dyskenesia) have taken 6 months in each case to recover functionality. I qualify for middle component of D.L.A. However one third of this is reclaimed by DWP who took me to court after I filled in form for Incapacity wrong after first bout of illness and convicted me of fraud. I have to pay 100 per cent council tax even though neither myself nor my son who lives with me are employed. So have income of £170 per month coming in. Due to stamp payment was asked to travel 30 miles for assessment (ESA). Refused to travel, contacted Atos management, sent letter from P Doc which they lost, sent copy by E Mail. Eventually recvd letter saying that I did not have to present for medical till 2010 but which time I will be officially retired.Since becoming ill (Diagnosis Bi Polar 1) I have had nothing but hassle from DWP. Stress precipitates manic episodes and hospitalisation, yet DWP persist in adding to this stress with their persecutery procedures. I am not a scrounger - I DO NOT WANT TO WORK - I do voluntary - good - work as do many who are long term disabled. We bolster the economy by helping out where we can for no remunarary reward. We are not scroungers, sitting on our arses watching T.V. We are a valuable resource.
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And do not forget everyone, to click on 'Get involved tab' at the top of this page, then select story for dom, from drop down menu, and copy and paste your blog or story into the comments section. please remmember to fill in the form and put your details in prior like myself, I am sure good ole dom will love a few hundred complaints about ESA and will run and do a program to expose the lima atos outrage,and the victmization of all you good and brave people.
come on DON u know it makes sense mate!!!
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I was assessed recently as after working for 25 years, 9 years of those whilst suffering from Fibromyalgia and osteo arthritish, I was made redundant and the stress of this led to a flare up of my medical conditions and I had to claim sickness benefit. This was back in Je and at that assessment they did not want to know about the medical I had recently had for DLA which resulted on me receiving the higher rate nor did they want to know about hospital treatments etc, all they wanted to know was whether I can work or not. I was only given 10 minutes with the doctor and I am still waiting to hear what the result was i.e am I fit to work or not. I am still on sickness benefit because other complications have arisen with my health. I felt the Dr at the assessment was very blunt and rude and I felt like an object not a person. Also the Company called Shaw Trust which the government pay for getting disabled people working is a waste of space as there are no jobs for normal people anyway and you can only attend Shaw Trust whilst on sickness benefit, once you come off sickness benefit you then have to liase with the Job Centre. You have to attend 5 interviews with Shaw Trust to ensure your benefits are not stopped. Twice now my benefits have not been paid due to someone not pressing the "button" once my updated medical certificate has been received to enable my benefit to go to my bank account. To chase up the first unpaid benefit it cost me £4 as I had to make 38 alls of an 0845 number as the local job centre did not care that I had not received my benefit. You can use the phones at the job centre but there is always a que. The whole system stinks, also all people on sickness/incapacity benefits should be assessed under this new system, not just new claimaints. I have never had to claim DSS payments before as I have always worked (I am 52) and the whole procedure is absolutely confusing and distressing. If you are trying to recover from your illness this system does not help you, it just makes is worse because of the distress caused. I would love to work but unfortunately no employer will take me on because of my disabilities despite what the law says.
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suetypud, nice blog, again its a pity no one is responding from the 'ONE SHOW'. just like to add a correction all claiments on I.B.
no matter how long they have been on it, will have to go through ESA from April 2010.
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No suprise that BBC/ONe Show aren't responding. Just like the Govt, they're not interested in truth. The Govt's careandsupport website, set up to take people's comments on the Green Paper for Social Care, has had thousands of comments protesting against proposals to steal Attendance Allowance from the disabled elderly. Guess what, thousands of comments have mysteriously disappeared so it looks like only 700 people have bothered to comment.
Same with the infamous Lord McKenzie. Infamous for his ignorance on mental-health. His solution to learning disabled & others with mental-health not understanding what was expected of them, was to tell them twice! When people began emailing him to complain about his ignorance, his email address 'mysteriously' shut down.
There's SO, SO MUCH that the BBC & media in general should be investigating & exposing re; this very serious abuse of vulnerable people which would go a long way towards turning the tide of public opinion & immoral & cruel political policies. What's happening is heinous. "Evil flourishes when good men do nothing."
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I can't believe that this can be legal. The BBC has a genuine hot story here and is doing nothing.
MP's are doing nothing.
Everyone has gone quiet.
People could die because of this stupid unworkable system.
Harsh words yes but I believe it will cost lives.
Many people have written in to this blog because they have a mental illness.
I ask you to please understand how this impacts them.
If you are a sufferer of depression how many can cope with this.
Their is a high risk of possible suicide's because this is something that will put fear into some lonely sufferers.
Some people are recovering alcoholics possibly and they may be pushed back into a bottle because of the pressure.
This is barbaric behavior which is almost similar to how they decided if you were a witch in medieval times.
If you had a black cat and female they would submerge you underwater to see if you drowned.
Wether it be anxiety/depression or alcohol etc it is still an illness and should not be judged as scroungers.
The pain and suffering of such mental illnesses are as bad as people in physical pain.
If you don't suffer it then please don't judge it.
A strange person/Doctor see's you for 10 min's and decides they know all about you.
The fact that they get a big fat bonus does not influence them in any way of course. (LOL)
This is then sent to another NON MEDICAL person who decides your fate.
It is borderline EVIL and totally unfair.
Only in the UK can we have a government that pays a foreign company to do this to its disabled subjects. On top of that we even pay them a bonus. RULE BRITANNIA!
I hope that as people start to commit possible suicide or become more disabled due to stress or the extra pressure that could aggravate peoples illness that people are able to sue for damages.
I want to see the outside medical companies that assesses people become liable for such damages. With politicians who come up with or support such crazy ideas like this it is no wonder this country is in such a mess.
We do not need a British Government anymore as almost everything is run by foreign company's now.
Why not save money by sacking them as lets face it it seems that an awful lot of them have been cheating the system with false expense claims.
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hi a suffer from anxiety and depression the last time i went for a medical the doctor if that's what you want to call him was putting down different answers or not listening to me so i failed my medical so i appealed against it which i won but the pressure it cased me mead my depression worse and now this new medical has got me very worried as i don't think i could go throw all it again why is it you try and tell them whats wrong but they don't listen all they are bothered about is numbers so all i do now is worry about if this doctor is going to be the same a do agree that the way things are going it is going to make more people think about taking there own life its not easy living with depression i would not wish it on anybody
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mad_mad_world. You are spot on, like the hundred odd others who've complained, protested & given their personal stories on this blog.
Like the thousands on the Govt website who've been "disappeared" into oblivion for daring to protest & tell the truth of their treatment at the hands of the "Third Reich" (sorry, fingers slipped on keyboard,) ATOS,DWP,GOVT. Like the BBC & media in general, like LOrd McKenzie. Thousands upon thousands are protesting to media, their MP's to the Charities that exist to support them, thousands are campaigning, organising petitions yet we continue to be ignored in our plight by those elcted to serve & those supposed to print & broadcast news factually & without prejudice.
This is the last I will post here but I just wanted to re-iterate that people aren't about to be affected or feel suicidal, they already. Ask any CAB or Welfare Rights Advisor. Ask Disabled People, Carers, Charities, Mental-Health & Social Services.
Oops, silly me, no need to ask they've been writing in in their thousands all over the place & getting NADA, ZILCH, ZERO RESPONSE!!!
WTF is going on???!!! WAKE UP & SMELL THE COFFEE BBC OR ARE YOU TOO BUSY RIPPING OFF THE LICENCE PAYER ON EXPENSE ACCOUNTS TO GIVE A DAMN? SHAME ON YOU!!!
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No! Lets make this blog the longest and loudest they have ever had!
please get your disabled friends to post here, if this fizzles out
they will have 'ONE' pun intended. if this contiues to grow they will have either to respond or remove it! you know censoring like the old soviet style!!!
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Just a thought, but i am a long term sufferer of severe Ankylosing Spondylitis/ PSa. I have limited mobility and need constant help with my everyday care. I am in constant pain everyday, and attend hospital every six weeks. I am prone to falls and stumbles. If i am called next year for an ESA Medical and pronounced "fit for work" by somebody other than my GP or Hospital consultants who know my conditions, and assuming i can make the medical. What if i fall or hurt myself during the "work assessment period". would ATOS or the DWP be liable for my injuries?
and also on the days when i cannot attend, because i am in severe pain, or cannot function or get out of bed, will they stop my allowance?
god help us all!!!!..
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I have scored the big zero points at the ATOS medical for ESA and was totaly shocked.I am now in the long stressfull stage of appealing this.They are months behind with appeals as most people fail the ATOS medical and when everyone else has to apply in April, lets hope the system crashes to dust. The people doing the assessment are just there to say no.They dont even listen or write down what you said. I have been diagnosed with Fibromyalgia and Osteoarthritis in my knees and had to give up my part time post due to this becoming worse and I was unable to do my job.. Many people are having a problem with this and most of my anxiety and panic attacks are caused by the treatment I have had by the ESA and are still having by the benifit people and trying to sort out my money. People who have to stop work through illness have enough to cope with and then they are degraded and made to feel like scroungers to get a pathetic amount to live on, oh yea , then you have to go through it again to re new your claim. I have been sorting out my benifits for a year now and I am not finished yet. I feel like giving the whole thing up and going onto Jobseekers but then, you know what, I would have to apply for council tax and any other benifits again.I would have to make my condition worse by getting a job( if there are any employers out there that would take me on) when my doctor agreed that I should not be doing my job. I cant go through that again. Why should we have to rely on help to fill in appeal forms etc. They have made them difficult and near impossible on purpose to put many decent people off claiming. Why punish us for not being able to work , dont you think we suffer enough. I proberably wont get mine through as I scored zero, then it would make my condition worse. Then you can go on courses while you look for work all about stress and how to cope and manage your condition. Very nice and usefull BUT dont you think if this process was easier and they actually took notice of your own doctor and consultant in the first place then you would have no need for this. The forms you have to fill in are made to give them enough info to make you seem like you are able to work. For example, "Can you go up two steps" - answer - "Yes...BUT it varies, if I have been doing alot then that can be painfull". WRONG.(True, but wrong) That counts as zero. What they dont take into concideration is the "IT VAIRIES" factor. With Fibromyalgia I could be in great pain and totally exausted one day and just able to cook and get the kids to school,then reasonably ok the next, able to do some house work even. But the next few days would be terrible, and the day after that not be able to do anything at all .The levels of pain,ect and how anxious I would be from day to day could be totally different. They dont take account of this and just say you can do stuff. Ok,I may be well enough to mow the lawn one day but for the next I would be in pain because I mowed the lawn. I was totally honest in filling in the form, but was peanalised for telling the truth. I was advised to fill in the form as it would be my worst or bad day. Why, its not my bad day all the time. However, if you can do things sometimes but you are in pain, then Im sorry you are classed as a fraud when clearly you are not.I have heard of people in wheelchairs failing the ESA medical.I said at my medical that I wanted to work, mabe not full time and it would have to be something that i could cope with and that would not have a bad effect on ny condition. ONLY THE TRUTH AND VERY FAIR I HEAR YOU SAY... But no, It was proberably me saying that, helped me get a zero. I dont think ESA is a fair or just benifit and it has in fact damaged my health, made me feel like I am worthless, degraded me and was deeply upsetting, which in turn has caused my condition to get worse. I wonder If I should take the government to court for that, human rights etc.(Pigs Fly!!) If someone else had made me go through that mabe I would have a case. Dont they get it, stress makes most conditions worse. Why is no one doing anything to protect vunerable people, why is no one speeking for us. When you have been through this you cant and dont want to take anymore hassle. Please write your experiences, please someone do something. People are suffering in this country and no one cares. We are too tired and beaten, too fed up to care anymore we just want it to stop.
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Hi. I am going through this ghastly process at the moment. I have claimed benefits in 30 years working life and it has been a real eye opene. I have been receiving esa for the last 7 weeks, after suffering a breakdown in a very stressful NHS job, when I ran out of ssp. In the last couple of weeks I have heard that my application for ill health retirement as NHS professional has been accepted and will retire at end of November, which I informed DWP people about at "work focussed interview". Meanwhile I have had notification telling me to telephone "within two days of receipt of this letter" for medical. I have no intention of claming any benefit once I start receiving Ill Health Retirement benefits - in fact intend to work part-time as self employed. The stories I have heard about these atos medicals on this and many other sites are appalling. Frankly do not want to put myself through such a horrid process and further stress for the sake of what will be £300 (not peanuts I know) - even thought I have paid into the system all my life. What do I do? Write to them and tell them I will not be attending and why and to take me off benefit? I know what I would like to say but I am a polite person and vulgarity never helps! Any advice welcome.
Graeme
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And is there any good news from the Torys, Oh no.
Mr cameron wants us to lose £25 a week if we fail atos bathetic
lima default fail them all program !!
when will they realise that there tabloid backed advisors have got
it so wrong. Picking on the vunerable will lose them votes big time.
2.6 million, then there are the friends of the 2.6 million that frankly know that its a very small minority that can fool the pathways system. On D.L.A. they want consultant reports G.P has to fill in page 36 and if good reason is not given you have no chance with the benefit, oh yes and they wanted my birth certificate despite the fact I have been claiming for 15 years worked before for 20 years
and a very hard worker I was, something I cannot say about a lot of M.P.S and lords and bankers who should be paying for the mess this country is in. freezing public pay sector (jobcenterplus staff)cutting benefits. this is all wrong. the only party I will be voting for next year is one that will stop these reforms, Tax the rich 60 % vince cable property tax a start. oh yes no bonuses what so ever pay cuts for bankers 25 % at least start arresting the embezzelers that took all the money and have gone over to stay in the bahamas exstradite them, lets see some action thats what the people want not knittpicking at the unemployable!!
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Of course the new test won't "suss the scroungers". It's not meant to. It, like every other recent "reform" to the benefits system, is designed entirely to find ways of denying claims. The entire system isn't set up to see if you're incapable of work, they already know you're incapable of work because your doctor has signed you off, that's why you're here in the first place. The system, from it's basic premise that your own doctor is a liar, is designed to find some excuse to deny your benefits claim. Oh, and this whole mess is administered by a private company who have conflicts of interest out the wazoo and who assume every claim is fraudulent.
And this system won't improve matters. Politicians consider that there is no such thing as a deserving benefit claimant, the press despise us and the press has trained the public to feel only contempt, pity or (for the mentally ill) fear about us. But, since no politician has the guts to go after the ultrarich who caused the current problems, we make an easy target. And politicians do love easy targets.
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I wonder, should I take pictures of the blood currently pouring from my arms and mail them to the sadists who created this atrocious system? Would that convince them that no-one should be put through this Dante-esque torture device that we laughingly refer to as "support"? No, probably not. It's all about numbers, you see. If they fail me at my medical tomorrow, which they will, there's a fair chance that it will give me the incentive to open my wrists up fully and as far as the government is concerned, that's all the better. Then they don't have to pay even JSA. And that's all they care about, trimming pennies.
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