Childbirth: Was the pain "beneficial"?
Share your stories and experiences here.
It's been reported that Dr Denis Walsh, associate professor in midwifery at Nottingham University, has said: "Pain in labour is a purposeful, useful thing, which has quite a number of benefits, such as preparing a mother for the responsibility of nurturing a newborn baby."
"More women should be prepared to withstand pain." said Dr Walsh.
So, mums, was the pain of childbirth "beneficial", as the male doctor suggests?
Should women avoid anaesthetic during childbirth?
Share your stories and experiences here.
Please note: Please add your genuine first name and location to your comment if you'd like it to be considered for a mention on tonight's One Show.
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Comments
Woman may like to moan about the pain of childbirth, but try having a shot in the pills!
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The brain is programmed to completely forget the pain of childbirth so to be able to talk about it is difficult itself. Other than very exceptional circumstances there is no excuse for not giving birth naturally.
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I had no painkillers during childbirth and I was fine. Yes, he is right - the pain makes the whole system of childbirth work. Without it I suspect the birth canal through the bones of the pelvis might not open properly and tearing might happen or worse. And anyway, women are programmed to froget the pain immediately afterwards so it really doesn't matter. And hey, what goes up muust come down and you knew it would be like that when it went up!
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i think that the chief midwife should ask my husband how painful childbirth is as i nearly broke his arm!!!! due to giving birth with little pain relief. i would not have had an epidural as i wanted to be in control of the situation however both me and my husband think pain relief is beneficial to both parties!! and it should be the choice of the mother NOT the professionals
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Hi my name is margaret, i have 2 sons, the first birth i was 21 years old, they gave me load of drugs without really askin if i wanted them, this led to a long long labour ending in complications, thankfully my son was delivered safe, everything was ok, however the 2nd birth ( i was 30) happened very quick, no medication due to the speed of things, and this was a much better experience.
margaret from scotland
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Viki from Middlesbrough
I'd rather give birth than have toothache!! Don't see what the fuss is about. Every one is different, but I'd do it every day if possible, mine weren't painful at all, and the end result far outweighs the bit of pain.
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Sorry ladies, according to my doctor passing kidney stones is as painful as giving birth - dont know what all the fuss is about!!!
Paul
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Labour with my 2nd child was going swimmingly until it was decided that having previously had an emergency c section i needed to be continously monitored on a bed. 5 hours later i was no further along but in far far more pain. Had I had the option of being able to continue moving round I think I might have managed without an epidural BUT I didn't have the choice in the first place. An epidural was the only way I could cope with increased pain and the faliure to progress. As it turned out it was good that I was constantly monitored as if I hadn't been we would probably have lost our daughter.
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Dear sir- Try passing a bowling ball through your 'rite of passage' and see how beneficial YOU find it!
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I had my son without any form of pain relief and I had to actively refuse the various pain-killers being thrust at me. I know not all labours are straightforward, and that pain killers are a choice and should be available, however far too many women do not even try to give birth naturally and demand epidurals and very strong painkillers from the off. Women who have epidurals can not feel their contractions and therefore will be in labour longer. They are unable to move around once the epidural has been administered, making labour harder. Elective epidurals often lead to assisted deliveries or caseareans. Very strong painkillers & epidurals should only be used where the clnicial need exists and when it is necessary. For normal, straightforward deliveries, only milder painkillers such as gas & air should be used. All the strong opiod based painkillers such as Pethidine cross the placenta and affect the baby, so they should be used with caution too.
Women - don't be scared, try it naturally first and honestly, its not that bad....
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I had an epidual and I am due to have a baby anytime now. I will do it again it's painful having a baby and the pain could make you resent the baby rather than bond with the baby.
After giving birth to my son I was really relaxed would I have been if I had so much pain?
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I've been having a discussion with my friends on Facebook all day today - it's interesting to note that those who agree with Dr Walsh are those who had easy, trauma free births .......
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Hello, Amy from Wiltshire here,
I had my baby 6 months ago on Boxing day, and I havn't forgotten the pain (mainly in my legs!) However I would have gone through ANYTHING to have my little girl delivered safely, She means the world to me, and its all very worthwhile!
P.S. Please read this out as I watch your show everyday and I think it covers some VERY interesting topics :)
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Come on , childbirth is a beautiful thing. It is worse for fathers, once the job is done the mother just have to lie there. WE are the ones who have to call obscure relatives, get flowers, get drunk etc. Truly this is a (wo)mans world....
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What is wrong with women of today? Childbirth is the most natural wonderful experience you will ever have!!!
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I know its a great way a to spice up the conversation, but give the full facts like they did on Breakfast this morning.
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I agree that you need to be able to feel what your doing when your pushing your baby out, this can be hindered greatly if your completely numb. I had an epidural and told the anethsetist to ensure it had worn off in time for the pushing part, this enabled me to conserve my energy and push my daughter out quite quickly.
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I had a natural child birth with no medication what so ever. My baby was only 5lbs and did a full 360 degree turn before being born - causing back pain that I have never experienced - even when I slipped a disk. It took just the time to lift her to my chest for our first kiss, cuddle and my tears to announce that I would do it all again, unfortunately we have not been blessed again - but I treasure our first blessing.
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He's right! After the birth of my 1st child where I remember nothing and felt nothing, I had PTSD and failed to bond with my son. With my 2nd son I was determind to be in control and to experience as much as I could take. Luckily after only gas and air I was able to be able to hold and bond with him without a drug induced 'fog' ruining my memories and experience!!
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After 28 hours of labour it gave me all the more reason to cause pain to my baby's father. It made me feel better at least!
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I think this male mid wife should attempt to have something large pushed through a smaller body part of his own and then he can say if the pain is beneficial!!!
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what an irresponsible comment from someone who will never experience that excruciating pain. The trauma of giving birth to my child was a major factor in developing post natal depression and had a very negative effect on bonding with my child. He does not have a clue about the pain and trauma and irresponsible comments like this can make women feel guilty and add to depression
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From Katy in Southampton.
I was in labour for a total of 44 hrs with little sleep. My first child was born at home as I had opted for a natural birth because not only do I not like hospitals I wanted to be in my right mind throughout the whole thing. I had no pain relief what so ever thats includes gas and air, I did it all on my own. It did hurt but I found I could bond with my baby easier as my recovery was instant I didnt have to wait for drugs to wear off. My son was born on 15th June 2008 he arrived three weeks early weighing in at 7lb 12oz so thank god he arrived when he did!!
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I have never had an epidural but I had pethidine with my 1st baby, it made both me and my daughter very drowsy, I swore I would never have it again and I never did. My daughter was 7lb 6ozs and it was a very hard and long labour.
With my 2 sons I used only gas and air in labour and a birthing ball, they were 9lbs and 8lbs 150zs when born and my labours with them were far easier and I loved the fact both me and my babies were alert once they were born.
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I think the pain of childbirth is beneficial and why should women expect it to be pain free? It is a pain that is soon forgotten and well worth going through. Women want it all and when they have it all they want a baby. Unfortunately they are not prepared to give up anything or go through any discomfort to achieve this. The pain is a naturel process of giving birth and when you have an epidural you cannot feel the contractions so is more dangerous for the baby. Of course women then all return to work and don't even want to look after these babies.
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I didn't use any painkillers during childbirth, for me breathing and prayer did the job. Just as our bodies were made for natural childbirth, painkillers were invented to make it easier. It is up to everyone to decide, but when I go for birth no.2 in December I will surely go it the natural way with as little drugs as possible as the result is just too amazing!
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I haven't been so moved to contact the bbc since Dave Lee Travis left. I have had 5 children ( a set of twins in there) and was given an epidural for the last one, it was bliss! Easy and stress free, I was happy to see him arrive in the world. For goodness sake, they give you pain relief for a filling these days, we lead such soft lives!! I would like to see this chap being told to 'breathe through the pain during a surgical procedure!
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Can someone please explain why delivering a 10lb 4oz baby as I did, without any medication, was " a purposeful, useful thing, which has quite a number of benefits, such as preparing a mother for the responsibility of nurturing a newborn baby." I was absolutely shattered and after having 2 others of high birth weights should have stuck with the needle in the back instead of trying au natural. Dr Walsh should try passing a watermelon when he urinates. Should have the same effect, hopefully.
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Hello everyone
I can't really say that the pain is beneficial as i had a planed Csection for health reasons. what i can talk about was my true feeling of desapointment when i found out that I couldn't have my baby naturally. After 2 and half years I still have sad feelings about it. Is not just pear pressure - all my friends have a story to tell and i don't. I actually feel robbed of something that should be mine by nature. And now i feel like crying...
Joana
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After 2.5 days in labour, I was grateful for the pain relief I was given. Not an easy birth and certainly not something that I would do again. Or perhaps the chief midwife would have preferred to have distressed mother and twins....
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The guy is so right, there are far too many epi's these days. I was not even offered gas & air and any pain was soon forgotten. Let nature take it's course, that could be a good form of birth control.
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what you need to know is that the pain is not constant but comes in waves the max of the wave only secs so it is possible to work with it. 1973 I had a beautiful birth with a Male medical student keeping me company as fathers were not allowed in the room. It was a wonderful birth no epidurals then. Also keep moving about kneeling and shaking that booty. I have had some really beautiful births with mothers when I was a midwife.. confidence building, caring & sharing can be useful...added survival advice for men.. please do not debate the pain whilst leaning over a woman in uncontrolled pain.. Her grabbing your balls without you having an epidural is not an advisable experience!! you have less opiate receptors in your brain lol
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I had both my babies without any pain relief (apart from one whiff of gas and air that made me feel dizzy and sick). I don't subscribe to the doctor's view that this prepares a mother for "the responsibility of nurturing a newborn baby", although there may be scientific reasons for this to be true. However without any shadow of a doubt I felt in control of the entire labour process, even in the worst moments of pain, which meant I knew what to do and when! All too easy, though, for those of us who have done it to knock those who do choose to turn to pain relief. Each to his own, every woman should be able to choose what will work for her.
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I had a completely natural childbirth (at home) with my first baby last year. My labour was 9 1/2 hours long and my daughter was 8lb 8oz - by no means was it an "easy" labour. I agree that pain medication is over-used and that women are being robbed of a life-changing, empowering experience by drug-happy doctors. In addition to this many drugs used in labour can have detrimental side effects for the baby and make intervention (e.g. caesarians) more likely. I would not change my childbirth experience for anything and fully intend to do it naturally next time.
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Hi!
I absolutely loved my first birth experience with my 2 year old daughter, however i did have the help of an epidural! Me and my husband are now expecting our 2nd baby and i am planning a home water birth this time around as i know how to handle the pain better! The pain was not at all half as bad ad i expected so i now know from experience how to be more prepared and cope with the pain, besides it is well worth it in the end!
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Well!!! Only 14 hours of pain, 14 stitches of torn ....parts and a promise from me not to do it again. AND I KEPT MY WORD. My daughter is 22 years old now and the only one I gave birth too. If Paul would actually consider giving birth is like pushing a melon through a key hole (size-wise)- kidney stones are painful but not in the same league!! Still, I don't regret having such a wonderful daughter! But I DO still remember the pain!!!
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I agree with Dr Walsh. I gave birth to my 1st son in August last year with no drugs and in a midwife lead unit, I had a 4 hour labour, as soon as I had given birth I forgot all about the pain anyway and if I try to think back and describe how it felt I don't think I could! I have had no problems bonding with my son or any post natal depression. Giving birth is one of the most natural things in the world and our bodies are designed to do this. I think fear of the unknown is why there is so many women having epidurals, I think that educating mothers to be about labour in antenatal classes would be so beneficial as I found this helped me know end. Laura, Exmouth.
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Both of my children were born quickly and without pain releif, but it wasn't pain free, but I didnt find the experience as painful as it had been described to me. However, I dont think the pain make me bond with my children better than my hausband has. I'm not sure that the pain makes you love the baby more, I told my sister when she was expecting, think of every contratcion as s step closer to the baby being born, a sort of useful pain, that way its far easier to cope with.
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I live in a part of the country where epidurals are not an option. I had both children without them. They are completely unneccessary. You need to be in control of your body and use the pain in a positive way. Natural birth all the way!
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From Lynne in Dunstable
I have had 2 children, I had no pain relief with the first and my bond was great with him. I had gas and air with my second child and again I had a very strong bond with him. If women want pain relief then I don't see how a man can say they shouldn't have it. I would like to see him give birth with or without pain relief.
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It might sound crazy, but I opted to only have gas & air as pain relief for my 1st labour. It is excrutiating, a man will never know a pain like it! But as painful as it was, I am currently 4 1/2 months pregnant and plan to only have gas & air for this labour also. You do complain about the pain, but some of us are willing to go through it all again. I think it does increase the bond with your child, as you have experienced so much pain to get them here!! Men should appreciate the amount of hard work it takes to get the children here!!
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I gave birth recently and chose not to have an epidural - mostly because the women around me who chose to get an epidural (for eg in my NCT group) ended up having a C-section (not to mention episiotomies, forceps and ventouse). I felt for me, the more you intervene with a natural process such as childbirth the more likely you are that further interventions will be used - so I chose to use hypnotherapy instead. I think the doctor phrased what he was saying wrongly - he was basically trying to say that childbirth is painful - for some reason a lot of women dont expect it to be painful. Of course it doesnt prepare you for rearing your child (that's a whole other kind of pain! As well as a joy of course). If you would like a natural childbirth then you're most likely to achieve such an outcome but trying to hold out on the epidural for as long as you can bear it!
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I have given birth to 6 children, twins by cesarean and the other 4 by natural birth and I am glad that I did not have any drugs to stop the pain. Giving birth is a natural thing and any labour pains is all part of the giving birth experience. So I agree with the midwife who made those comments.
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Ha ha ha, I had 67 hours of labour, a failed forceps delivery and then an emergency caesarian, I did have pain relief but no epidural.
If I had not had the pain relief, I may have resented my baby, and I feel the more pain a woman feels, the MORE chance there is of this, not less. I loved my baby from the word go,but had I endured a full 67 hours of agony,things may have been different.
As a man, Dr Walsh does not know just what agony labour is and should try excreting a melon from where the 'sun don't shine'and see if he found it beneficial
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Pain relief what is that... I gave birth in January to twin boys 8 weeks early and so was not ready, the only thing I had was gas and air 5 minutes before the 1st twin appeared and I nearly never got that!!!
This is typical of a man! I would like to see them try it.. pain relief is there should you wish to have it and this should be up to the mum at the time...
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personally i didn't have time for an epidural with either of my two children who were born 18 & 16 years ago. My first labour was 2 hours & my second was 2 hours 10 minutes! Had the labour been longer I wouldn't have opted for an epidural as for me the thought of having a needle inserted into my spine was terrifying. Having undergone some previous very painful surgery in the years before I gave birth I am convinced my pain threshold was raised & this certainly helped me to cope with the pain of childbirth. For me, the pain wasn't that bad and fortunatley didn't last very long but I do think people should have a choice.
Caron Nosek
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It is surely not news to anyone that pain relief has a price to pay in the increase risk of an instrumental delivery. The findings are based on scientific research and only serve to back up the widely accepted ideas that women who are supported effectively by a known midwife are less likely to use pain relief and less likely to have an instrumental birth, which carries it's own risks. I wish that we could all see this as a positive move which may mean that all the precepts of changing childbirth should be again highlighted and used to ensure that women get the support they deserve in childbirth. Women who are upright and in comfortable surroundings and in control are less likely to use pain relief. This research should be a step forward, not a step back.
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I think he has the right idea, 3 of my friends recently had epidurals at 3cm dilated- all ended up having a c section. Yes it is very painful but I managed with no pain relief up until I was 6cm dilated then only had gas and air- I had a natural birth with no complications. People just seem to go with the option to take all the pain away and don't consider anything else these days! A real shame.
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I have had two children without epidural pain releif, my second with a fantastic independant midwife. I have to say i agree with Dr Walsh. I was reeducated by my independant midwife about exactly the things Dr walsh comments on. Pain is important, and not having an epidural means you give your body the best chance to do what it is designed to do. Unfortunately because he is a man his comments have been selectively reported. listening to him on radio 4 this afternoon he was able to expand on his "quoted" comments and went on to explain that he is more concerned about the over use of epidurals and the mis education of women in their use. Child birth is very painful and frightening if you do not have the right support. this is the crucial part of the experience. i was blessed enough to find the most amazing independant midwife who got to know me through my pregnancy and then supported me every moment of my birth. That relationship made the difference, birth is a psycological experience as well as a physical one.
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When I was in labour I had all the drugs to help me as I was in labour for 6 very long days and needed a rest.
Hayley morris
West midlands
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I haven't been so moved to contact the bbc since Dave Lee Travis left. I have had 5 children ( a set of twins in there) and was given an epidural for the last one, it was bliss! Easy and stress free, I was happy to see him arrive in the world. For goodness sake, they give you pain relief for a filling these days, we lead such soft lives!! I would like to see this chap being told to 'breathe through the pain during a surgical procedure! My name is Linda Ianson from Preston
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Slightly off topic, but if Dr Walsh has done the research, studied and asked women about the benefits of pain during childbirth, to discredit him because he is a man is disrespectful, to him as an academic. He may not be a woman and not be able to experience childbirth first hand, but for someone who studies archaeology or dead languages, are we to discredit them as well just because they were not there to experience the events and objects involved. We live in a modern society that accept all people regardless of colour, race or ethnicity; have we not grown above and beyond gendered roles, behaviour and attitudes too?
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My mum has had 4 children 3 of which were over 10lbs my mum didnt have any drugs throughout the whole experience!
:)
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Bless him! May God grant him the pleasure of kidney stones and allow his wife to hold his hand and mop his brow while he passes them naturally and without pain relief!
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I totally agree with the doctor, having had a c section for my first child and a natural birth with just gas and air for the second. I recovered so much quicker the second time and also you bond so much quicker with you child and the pain is forgotten as soon as your baby is in your arms
Jill Hammond
Buckingham
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Dr Walsh is a highly respected member of the midwifery profession. As a midwife myself I know him through his prevous work in Leicester. He has a point....epidurals are overused; they tend to interfere with the natural labour process and can lead to a cascade of interventions leading to caesarean section, which may have been avoided if the epidural was not used. It is not always as simple as this of course.
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Giving birth to a baby naturally with no pain relief does not always make the bond with your baby stronger, it can also have the opposite effect. I had labour induced when my first child was overdue and it was the most painfull experience of my life. i went on to have complications and an hurendous birth. It is a personal experience for eveyone and i don't think anyone especially a man has the right to comment on pain relief in childbirth. contrary to common myth you do not always forget the pain of child birth.It can seriously traumatize people for many months after the birth.
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Stuart from Edinburgh
Good grief how dare a man carry out an academic study that involves women and the condition of pregnancy!
Surely we know by now in this PC world and that of supposed equality that ONLY women are permitted to make informed comment about gender.
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Why all the fuss isn't it what our bodies are made for??
If the pain of childbirth was so bad surely we would only have one child.
I've had 2, one with pain relief and the second with gas and air only, wonderfull, not a problem, the women of today are really a lot of mard arses
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i dont think it will bond even more if its true is it because the child can feel the mothers pain does it make the child more comfortable these are the questions that haunt me it may also be a good benefit in a way
baby tinto from corby
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Jill from York. Dennis Walsh has actually got a point it is not just about bonding, there is a physiological reason for the pain but it is the fear of pain that makes it intolerable and causes it to compound. Women need to have the fear taken out of childbirth and the confidence to give in and allow their body to do it's work. As a midwife I have experienced the difference support can make in helping women to get through the pain of labour. However we are nowhere near having the resources needed to give this support so we give out painkilling drugs and perform epidurals because there are not enough of us to go round. I have had 3 children and I know how painful childbirth is but it can be tolerated with the right atmosphere and level of support. We need more midwives and more ante natal education so women understand what is happening to them.
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just to post a second comment (aren't I greedy) my mother not only had no drugs when in labour with my brother, but also managed to go to a Dundee United football match! Scottish grit at work once more.
On a serious note, one female reporter asks "what about my right to choose?" You can choose to have the pain or you can choose to not be pregnant surely? Welcome to mother nature.
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Only a man could make such a ridiculous comment,mind you childbirth is nothing compared to the pain of tending to a man suffering from a cold or flu,unbelievable!!!
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Sarah - South East London.
Don't victimise Denis Walsh! He is a wonderful Midwife & has written some amazing articles & spearheaded some fantastic research! And he's right! Drugging women up to the eyeballs during birth can be dangerous!
Epidurals slow labour down & can send babies into distress because they immobilise the mother leaving her stuck on a bed! Childbirth does not have to be a terrifyingly painful ordeal! The main cause of the pain is fear. If the fear is conquered (I used Natal Hypnotherapy to do this) childbirth can be an amazingly empowering experience! I LOVED IT!!!!! Can't wait to do it again!
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As both a Midwife and a Mum of two - I must agree with the Doctor - which for a midwife, is a very rare thing. Childbirth is excruiating - but in a positive way.... No-one else could have given birth to my babies - only me - It's something that I wouldn't have wanted to miss for anything. Yeah it hurts - you cannot describe the pain - so guys, don't even think about trying!! but in a strange way, it's fulfilling and marvellous. I'd much rather go through labour than pregnancy!
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Carys from Anglesey - I have four children First I had a shot of Pethadine - was really sick with it - then as birth was taking longer the effect had worn off when she was born - second I refused any painkillers and it was great - was 100% in controll - third and fourth were born 15 mins apart - again no painkillers just gas and Air Loved every minute of it and would love to do it again! Husband says no though! Was able to get up 15 mins after giving birth and walk around and went home 5 hours after the twins were born ! Oh yes - No stiches with any of them!
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I have two wonderful girls childbirth for me was both painful and long taking 2 days each to be born but you forget it in a flash all when you hold your baby for the first time. sarah from worksop
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ok...I suppose I am one of the fortunate few and child birth was not so bad for me...I have 3 and spent a whole of 15 minutes delivering each one. As for pain being benifical...what about those of us who have had little or no pain in the process...does that mean we are not well bonded with our children? I think not. Pain does not bond you to another...That is like saying a physically abused woman is better for it because the bond between her and her abuser is stronger because he hits her. Some men are so stupid really! Perhaps he should try the bowling ball suggestion!
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The man's right.. childbirth was a complete pleasure.. it's the eighteen years that follow it that really hurts!!!!
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I had a completely natural childbirth (at home) with my first baby last year. My labour was 9 1/2 hours long and my daughter was 8lb 8oz - by no means was it an "easy" labour. I agree that pain medication is over-used and that women are being robbed of a life-changing, empowering experience by drug-happy doctors. In addition to this many drugs used in labour can have detrimental side effects for the baby and make intervention (e.g. caesarians) more likely. I would not change my childbirth experience for anything and fully intend to do it naturally next time. Charlotte [Personal details removed by Moderator] Surrey
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You call this man 'a Doctor'- Id like to make very clear to people that he is NOT a medical doctor and his comments are in no representing the opinions of the medical profession. I am an obstetrician, he needs to pipe down - and by giving him too much publicity is probably a mistake...
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Lorraine's comment comparing having your appendix out with the pain of having a baby doesn't make sense - if your appendix needs to be removed then you are ill and need an operation..having a baby does not mean you are ill - it is a NATURAL occurance that sometimes means enduring a lot of pain, sometimes for many hours - but women have been doing this for centuries without the need to have needles stuck in their spines..!! I speak as a mother of 2 and yes it was bloody excrutiating bt worth it
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I was very lucky to give birth without an epidural, so yes, felt how painful it is. Women have been giving birth for thousands of years without pain relief at the press of a button. Yes, it hurts, but a dislocated knee hurts more. Too many women like to focus on their 'nightmare' experiences, rather than just thinking it's a few hours in the whole of a lifetime. We are too used to taking pills, or dosing up on medicine at the first inkling of any ailment.
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Lucy from middlesex:
I'm a mother of 2 girls and my opinion will probably be controversial but I agree with the professor and think that women are to hung up on the pain before they actually experience child birth. This is a natural process and believe women should have the choice, but my experience was that YES!!! it was painful but bearable and had no pain relief.
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I gave birth in January this year with only one shot of morphine. I totally agree with Dr Walsh - it is a mental experience as well as physical. Perhaps I have a high pain threshold but I am amazed at the amount of women I know that have received epidurals or even requested sections which they got. Barbara from Kilmarnock
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I found the birth of my first child so traumatic that it took me 12-13 yrs before i could even think about having another child !!!!
and when people say its a pain you forget NO ITS REALLY NOT !!!!!! I remember feeling as if my body was being torn in 2 ! Agony excruiting pain. Yet i did go on to do it again 2 natural births and an emergency caesarian ! Each birth was traumatic. And im a health care professional and know all the ins and outs of childbirth.
I would like to pop an umberella where the sun doesnt shine open and pull it out and see how beneficial this idiot man finds it.
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From Vicky in Somerset
Both of my children were born quickly and without pain releif, but it wasn't pain free, but I didnt find the experience as painful as it had been described to me. However, I dont think the pain make me bond with my children better than my hausband has. I'm not sure that the pain makes you love the baby more, I told my sister when she was expecting, think of every contratcion as s step closer to the baby being born, a sort of useful pain, that way its far easier to cope with.
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Working as a Midwife I believe that the statement Mr Wlash has made is valid-and is not just his opinion, it is made from years of research into normal birth (of which he is an expert!!)
Pain relief is there and has a need and as a Midwife I would never deny a woman analgesia, but in my job it is all so apparent that many many women feel that they can have(and should have) the perfect birth without any of the pain or effort, and in my experience that does not work!!
It just our culture of wanting and expecting everything without putting in the hard work!!
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Gemma, Derby
Hi!
I absolutely loved my first birth experience with my 2 year old daughter, however i did have the help of an epidural! Me and my husband are now expecting our 2nd baby and i am planning a home water birth this time around as i know how to handle the pain better! The pain was not at all half as bad ad i expected so i now know from experience how to be more prepared and cope with the pain, besides it is well worth it in the end!
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Having given birth twice I can honestly say that the 'pain' of childbirth is all relative to the individual and her state of mind. Comments like this from a health professional are completely inappropriate and aid no-one in making an informed decision about drug use in labour. With my first childs birth I had all the drugs available but with my 2nd I had practiced Hypnobirthing and gave birth to my son with barely a whiff of gas and air and a fraction of the discomfort I experienced with my daughter.
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When a man can pass a watermelon thru his back passage without needing pain relief then ill listen to him!
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I am watching the show with my daughter Isabelle who is 1 week old today & already an avid fan of the show! She was born 9lbs 5oz and al i can say is thank goodness for whoever invented the epidural!
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Hi, my wife is on business in the USA at the moment but I seen this on the bbc website I had to email her. Before she even said good morning I got this reply!
Having done both, trust me you do NOT miss out on anything. Pain is not good and it written by a man. what would he know
Love you
Al
-----webmasters@bbc.co.uk wrote: -----
I am caught between two pillars, on one hand I was there and boy it looked like it would hurt ( Toilet and Pinapple spring to mind) and on the other hand, how can a man be wrong?
Confused of Plymouth. Mark.
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Child birth is the most natural thing in the world, the pain is part of the process and tells the body how to react, what did we do before pain relief? I gave birth to my son without pain relief and our bond is very strong, I know women who had epiduarls and the after effects were worse than the pain! We want everything too esay these days!
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hi, escuse the typing - one handed, baby in the other.
i agree with the doctor, i used a technique called hypnobirthing in labour, where i used relaxation and breathing techniques to manage the pain. the theory goes that the more relaxed you are the more relaxed your birthing muscles will be and therefore the pain will be minimised. it worked for me, i gave birth to my son, who was ten pounds with some deep breathing and a bit of gas and air. the hard third stage only lasted 20 minutes. look it up: hypnobirthing
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Yvonne from Winchburgh Scotland
I gave birth to a beautiful baby girl 4 weeks ago and my son 7 years ago on both occassions I had gas and air as my only pain relief but this was not because i felt some need to prove how much of a hero i was but because both babies decided to make a quick entry into this world! It is a pain we do tend to forgot over time but my goodness it takes a darn long time to forget this pain. I would like to see the good professor trying to pass a watermelon the next time he needs the loo see how he likes it!! My sister in law needed 6 stiches 3 weeks ago with her first child, with no epidural, tell me she didn't need any pain relief and it was her rite of passage.
Every labour is different and great if you can manage without pain relief but some people can't - it should still be our choice!!
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Having children is purely elective - why should we then spend money on drugs from a cash strapped NHS (if we are to believe the horror stories spread by the government) for anaesthesia for childbirth when the lady concerned is perfectly aware that having children will cause pain. It is a case of wanting your cake and eating it too...we are turning into a race, never mind nation, of weaklings with no fibre or 'spine' at all.
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Childbirth is painful not as a benefit, but simply because humans have a standing gait and have children with relatively large heads. This has given us benefits that allowed us to use tools and have complex large brains but unlike chimps who have a larger birth canal than humans. It is a misfortune of our evolution, but luckily we are bright creatures who have invented drugs and so on. Its ultimately the woman's choice and others should not preach (particularly men!) as each person has a different experience and naturally has different pain thresholds.
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Hi,
All I can say is that I was lucky enough not to require any pain relief when I gave birth of my 8lb 7oz son. Being only 5ft 1in I gave birth to him an hour and it was a amazing experience and gave me a sense of achievement.
plus I felt great afterwards because of not having any pain relief drugs. But i did did gas n air atferwards for two sitches.
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I am afraid I agree with him. When my daughter was born I had an epidural and she was pulled out with a ventouse. I gave birth to my son three years later at home and genuinely felt much more connected to him straight away as I had physically experienced his birth. It took me much longer to bond to my daughter.
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My experience of child birth was amazing; I would recommend all women to try to deliver without pain relief. I attended guided birth sessions which enabled me to stay relaxed and let my body tell me what to do a when. It was the best experience of my life indescribable. Notice I used the term child birth not labour that word itself instils fear and tension which all contribute to pain
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I suspect Dr Walsh's opinion is more to do with saving the NHS money on pain relief procedures. I have had 2 "natural" births and don't see why women have to endure this ordeal in the 21st century. It's quite biblical in its origins - women having to suffer for "the sins of Eve". No place for it in modern society.
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I have had three children in the last 4 1/2 years, I had an epidural with the first one and felt no pain, with the second two I had no major form of pain relief and I would definately agree that it makes the whole birth a more fulfilling achievement than to feel nothing. Your body uses the pain to tell you what to do we are cleverly designed this way. (didn't enjoy it that much to have anymore though!)
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I had my first child with just gas and air, it was a long and very painful delivery, I felt it hard to do anything, let alone look after my baby, I had to have a lot of help from my family.
When, 3 years later I went into labour with my second son. I pleaded for the epidural, wow! what a difference, there is no comparison, I enjoyed the birth and I was able to take care of my son with very little help- I felt so well.
from Penny Greatrex
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Oh come on, if a guy complains about some sort of pain he gets called a winger and all u get from women is you should try childbirth, let women get into our shoes and try living with women and they would realise that the earache we endure is worse than the pain of childbirth. so i say women get on with it, you should have the children in your lunch hour and get back to work
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Thirty years ago I was in labour with my son and because he got into difficulties I was put under general anaesthetic. I was told that I might have difficulty "bonding" with him because of not experiencing labour - sorry, but poppycock! I am blissfully unaware of any of the "beneficial pains" of childbirth, and it would be hard to find a closer mother-and-child relationship than mine with my son, of whom I am overwhelmingly proud.
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I am a midwife and very grateful to Dr Dennis Walsh for his expertise and experiance. He is so pro women and is a great advocate in promoting 'normal childbirth'. He has great experiance and spends much of his time sharing and teaching midwives in the importance of this and developing their skills in 'normality'and having faith in the woman's body to birth her baby. Sadly due to the medicalised approach to childbirth and the fear of litigation many midwives have lost their ability supporting low risk women and labour ect.
Leave Dr Walsh alone; he may be a man, but he does not underestimate the pain that women go through in childbirth. I have enormous respect for him and what he does. Please keep it in context.
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There is a lot of artificial fear about child birth without drugs - the norm seems to be if there is pain relief, just take it, rather than, pain relief is there if you absolutely need it.
As a first time mum I made a conscious choice and trusted that I could do it for both myself and my baby.... and with no regrets.
It was not as bad as people made out. The pain is part of the journey, and helps to set the bond for life.
There are plenty of natural methods you can use to help to process, like meditation and breathing. It works!
Raquel, East London
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I was determined not to have pain relief when I had my Son Jake 11 months ago and I'm not sure if it was beneficial to me being a better Mum but I was certainly very proud of myself for not having any and I still harp on about it whenever I get the chance.
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Child birth does not have to be painful - I had my son Alexander three years ago using "hypnobirthing" techniques - basically it empowers you to "breath your baby out". It was a totally natural drug free experience. Every women should be told about this so that they can decide on whether this is an option for them. So many women enter child birth thinking that it will be painful. This method of child birth enables you to be in total control and aware of your body to make it a positive pain free experience. I would highly recommend it. Brenda Fewtrell, Devon
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Hi, Caroline from Polegate here.
Bless him. May God grant him the pleasure of passing kidney stones without pain relief, while his wife holds his hand and mops his brow.
I've had 4 kids, each labour totally different, ranging from no pain relief to everything I could get! Each birth is unique, you can't judge others by the amount of pain relief they need.
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Rachel from Ilkley West Yorkshire.
I had decided not to go for an epidural with my first son - thinking i'd try it 'drug free' - but my father who is a retired Consultant Anaethetist made me think differently. He told me that in his experience giving a mother an epidural could change a nightmare birth into a more bearable and even enjoyable one, leaving you better prepared to handle your new born when they finally are born. I didn't actually have the opportunity to have one but think that it's up to the woman (and on the advice of the medical team). Has this man actually been at a birth...?
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I agree in part...
I had an emergency c section to save both our lives. I was 40 weeks pregnant, had been dreading labour up until 2 days before when I felt 'up for it'.
I didn't go into labour, my waters didn't break, nothing. I just had to run to an operating theatre and was sliced open. Hey presto - a baby boy!!!
I feel utterly cheated that the one thing us ladies have over men was taken from me. Don't get me wrong - I'm a wimp and would have probably had an epidural. But I'd love to know what a contraction feels like!!!
I didn't think I could have children so my 1 opportunity to experience the pain of childbirth has now passed - gutted.
It took a couple of days to bond with my baby as I was in shock and on morphine due to the pain of the operation. But breast feeding creates a massive bond between mother and baby. 8 months on we're both healthy, I'm still breastfeeding and our bond is greater than any force in the universe.
Great show!!
Nichola, Fareham
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Hi I'm kay from Manchester, I was 16 when I had my first child, I tell you this now, you never forget the pain!
Pain aside, I ask you, what would a man know about childbirth? They complain about getting hit in the knackers, that lasts fir around 5 minutes, try 16 hours of labour sunshine! Men couldn't hack it, they think they're dying when they get a cold for gods sakes!
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I have given birth to 6 children. twins by ceasarean and the other 4 by natural birth, one of which weighed 10 pounds. I agree with the midwife. Giving birth is a natural thing for women to do and the labour is all part of it, so what are these other women moaning about?
from Erika Lucas
Jaen Spain
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As the mum of four children I feel well equipped to talk on the subject of childbirth. One of the boys was born in the Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. He was a big baby being just over 10 lb and I had a difficult time. His shoulders got stuck and it was very traumatic. I managed the pain with breathing. It took several days to bond with the baby. My fourth child, a boy had to be induced. This was done at 8am on Monday morning and he was born at 5 pm on Tuesday. Had I not had an epiduerel for the last couple of hours. I am sure that I would have needed a c section. Instead I was able to gather my strength and enjoy the birth. The bond was immediate. He was another big baby weighing in at almost 11lb.
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Whilst my wife and I recognise that child birth is excrutiating, having watched my wife go through it, there are even more painful conditions recognised by health professionals for which many get no pain relief. I suffered from Trigeminal Neuralgia for four and a half years and was told by the Neuro-surgeon, that whilst child birth is very painful, Trigeminal Neuralgia is the most painful condition known to man. It was my wife who had said to him that there is nothing more painful than child birth but she did acknowledge that Trigeminal Neuralgia is even more painful having watched me suffer it for so long. At least there is something wonderful at the end of the pain of child birth. With Trigeminal Neuralgia there's only more pain.
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As a midwife I feel strongly that women are able to give birth to their babies without the need for epidurals if they have good support. I work in a team in the midlands that promotes homebirth and cares for lots of women who chose not to have epidural analgesia whilst in labour. I think that ridiculing Denis Walsh the way you are doing is completely wrong- you don't need to have given birth to be able to empathise and give good care to women whilst they are in labour- I haven't had children but have helped hundreds of women through the amazing process of birth.
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Dr Walsh has a point, but I believe that women should be given the choice particularly if it's a large baby! I gave birth four times; my first three in Holland where no painkillers were offered and my last baby in Spain where I was given an epidural. The last birth was by far the easiest, but I had to be told when to "push" because I felt nothing at all...
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My daughter, who works in childcare, was visiting a new mother this afternoon and the family cat there was giving birth to a litter of nine kittens at the time. My daughter rang me as she had never seen an animal birth before and was amazed tht the mother cat didn't make any noise or show any signs of undue stress. I explained that it was only human females who make a big fuss about the 'pain' of childbirth. It's also convenient that this 'pain' cannot be corroborated by a man.
I shall now retire to the bunker!
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Pamela, Motherwell
I gave birth to my daughter in 2006 when there was a similar uproar in the midwifery world regarding charging for epidurals which seemed to put a lot of emphasis on my decision to have the procedure done. When I gave birth to my son in 2008 I did so at home with no drugs or procedures and in a birthing pool using hypnotherapy techniques and support from my midwife and husband. Pain is actually not required to give birth! I advise any pregnant woman to read 'Childbirth Without Fear'.
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I believe that women like to exagerate the pain of child birth so that they think there partner is due them a favour. Have any of these women ever had a jaggy jobby?
Jim in Fife
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I am a mother of three boys 21mnths, 4.5 years and 6 years, all of whom were born without the aid of drugs. I was lucky that the births were straight forward the 1st lasting 8 hrs, 2nd 10hrs and 3rd 4hrs so I appreciate I probably didn't need them to much. the pain has made me a very attentive mother I think and after all the pain you do get a cute baby to hold, unlike the trigeminal neuralgia I suffered after a deep filling that was a pain killer moment! I think the fact I am allergic to paracetamol meant that by the time the midwives arrived on the scene I was past caring about pain relief, my brain had sort of made it feel normal and with the aid of a beer towel to bite down on and a kilo bar of chocolate to gnaw on between contractions I was actually quite pleased to reach the pushing bit as it was a physical thing I could get on with to hasten my own relief. I know the idea of no pain relief is unthinkable to most people, all my friends think i'm crazy but I'm glad I did it my way it suited me, and think the choice should be there for mothers and no man can ever begin to know how it feels........
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Try passing a water melon for five days, 12 hours of strong contractions and only managing 3cm dilated, and then having an emergency c section. Then tell me not to have an epidural!
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Although I agree with Dr Walsh, (I've had two children with no pain relief and recognise that it does facilitate an immediate bond and allow the body to do what it needs to do.) I think more women need to know that childbirth isn't always the horrific experience you read about in the pregnancy magazines, maybe Dr. Walsh and his team should spend more time reassuring mums to be that it is a managable pain which is quickly forgotten and less time judging them. Although I was lucky enough not to need any medical assistance with the birthing process my midwife team made the whole thing less daunting and reassured me throughout. Obviously the ideal situation is to have a completely natural birth with no complications but women should not be made to feel inadequate if complications arise and they ask for help and painkillers. We all have different pain thresholds and therefore we cannot judge others pain and ability to deal with it.
Jo from Teddington
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Pain yes but some relief is beneficial if you are suffering - but the bonding bit - no! I remember every minute and it was terrible. That's why I have only one child!
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For me childbirth was most definitely a long awaited ritual that bore my much wanted child into this world. The waves of intense pressure on your body are perhaps a bit scary but at the same time they are a comfort.
I would not for one second have wanted to be numbed from the waist down with an epidural nor feeling anything other than my childs emergence into the world and I could feel every movement which made me love my baby more as I felt his journey to life.
The bonding between mother and child is very much heightened after such an experience and your reward for all your hard work is this beautiful child that you finally get to meet. It is totally true what Dr Walsh says - I would happily have him as my midwife (and that's saying something because normally I would only ever want a woman going through that with me) as he seems to really be in touch with the beauty of childbirth!!
Kate from Essex
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I think this man is very out going and i am sure if he has children and a wife she must be going mad now. I know that child birth is a priveledge but in my oppinion it was most definatly not beneficial i was in labour for 79 hours in total and did it all with out pain releif but ended up having to have an emergency csection any way ! lets not be too oppinionated all you men out there !
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I have been listening to women on the television and radio being interviewed all day, most of them outraged by the suggestion that they should do without pain relief in child birth. I had both my children without any pain relief. Both labours had their problems but I genuinely believe that I was in greater control knowing exactly what my body was experiencing without any drugs disguising what was happening. I understand why many women use pain relief in child birth, we all have different pain thresholds, however, I do feel that it shouldn't be expected or demanded without adequate education or thought. I genuinely found that being informed about the birthing process and knowing what to expect prepared me to deal with whatever labour brought. It was painful and difficult but it was a positive, productive pain culminating in the birth of my two wonderful boys. I had no regrets, recovering from each birth remarkably quickly. You know what they say .... no pain, no gain!
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I totally agree with Dr Walsh. I gave birth two weeks to a beautiful baby boy. I was in labor for 3 days with no pain relief. I must say it WAS the most painful thing I have experienced but I loved and enjoyed every minute of it. It was very beneficial.
Yasmin, London.
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Women don't hate me but I have to agree. My first two births were abroad without the option of pain control. Once the birth was over there was no post natal care. I have to say I would have struggled with the first few weeks of painful breastfeeding (stomach cramps, cracked nipples, you name it) had I not been through the worse pain of the birth before hand. During pregnancy you work yourself up to the shortish lived pain of labour but rarely consider the pain post birth which can last for weeks. Saying that I don't dissagree with women having the option if they are going to be left traumatised after surely medication during labour is a better option and lets be right had I been able to have the option during my first birth I would have gone for it without a doubt. I didn't though and now I'm due any day now with number three and planning to cope for the benefits afterwards.
Sinead Merseyside
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Having gone through the experience twice with horrendous pain and the second time in tremendous fear of my baby being strangled by the cord, I can only think a man would understand what we go through if he had someone cutting him with a scalpel on his manly parts with no anesthetic.
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I think that childbirth should be as natural as possible. I have had 6 children, 3 at home. The problem with hospitals is that they do not promote walking around and keeping upright. Laying down makes child birth longer and more painful. Last year I had a private midwife for a home birth as I was 40 and did not wanted to be treated like a geriatric! My twinges were not strong enough, so at 1.00am Myself, the 2 midwives and my husband went for a walk to the sea front. This got things going and 1 hour 40 mins later I had a baby boy at home in a birthing pool. I also used soft music and aroma oils to relax me. I did also use gas & air at the very end as I have done with all 6 births. This really helps but I am sure that the water, the active position and the relaxed environment is what helped me cope with the pain in a positive way.
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I think his comment was taken out of context. I did childbirth on gas and air, as I was warned about the dangers of epidurals. I know friends who had them and now all have back problems. Tracy - belfast
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I am due to give birth to my first child in October, I am fully intending not to have an epidural unless the pain is so bad that I need it. However, I think saying that the pain helps bond with the baby just puts more pressure and guilt on women who have found childbirth very difficult and have relied on epidural to get them through. I also wonder how can you monitor bonding? also with pain being such a subjective thing, and people having different thresholds, it is a sweeping comment to make and I don't think it should be taken any notice of. It's a midwifery professor having his fifteen minutes......................
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Having had four children, two with gas and air, one with gas and air and pethadine, and one with epidural c-section, I'd say that the least intervention the better. I felt stressed by the interventions and how they affected my baby and my system. I don't think that epidurals should be given only by necessity ie if the mother is not coping with the pain or for medical reasons. More emphasis should be placed on birth plans, ante natal classes and relaxation methods to help prepare a woman for this wonderful (and painful) experience.
Deborah from Edgbaston
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Hi there. Master Titus, Barber Surgeon to the desperate here. I work at Torrington 1646, which is a tourist attraction and educational facility in North Devon. I am not a woman, so have no direct experience of childbirth, however I thought that the following may be of interest. The modern thought may be that pain is good for the bonding process, however I and one of my collegues, Master Jake take the History of Medicine out to schools around the Southwest at GCSE level and one of the things that we talk about is childbirth. On the topic of childbirth one of the things that we talk about is the fact that the pain of childbirth was visited upon women by God. In the book of Genesis it says, 'And unto the woman he said, I shall greatly multipy your pain in comception; in pain you shall bring forth children!' The actual wording depends upon which year the bible in question is from, however the underlying message is that the pain shall remind you of the original sin!
Master Titus,
Barber Surgeon,
Torrington 1646.
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I agree with doctor walsh ,,I have given birth 9 times ,but with only 3 surviving children,,and I think the experience of childbirth is the most exhilirating thing ever to be experienced. one of my sons was born double breach and still I refused all there medication,and just recently my daughter gave birth and when I was with her at the hospital ,,they offered her everything under the sun for pain,,,and I was able to convince her it was mind over matter ,and she done it on her own and thanked me for it later.I think its too much scare mongering. Kristine, Wales
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I gave birth to my son 9 weeks ago ans at first was managing fine with just a TENS machine and gas and air even though by the time I was admitted to hospital I been in labour for nearly 3 days. A further 9 hours of contractions after being admitted and I was no closer to giving birth than when I was admitted and was having no rest between contractions as they were coming one after another, it was at this point I decided after talking with the midwife to have an epidural (something I had been totally against before going into labour). After having an epidural, which was a mobile one to enable me to walk around and still feel the contractions but not the pain, I was able to get some sleep and when it came to giving birth had the energy to give birth to my son with no complications which was the most important thing to me.
I don't think women should feel obliged to go without pain relief so they can "appeciate" child birth as according to my midwife if I had not had an epidural after 17 hours of constant contractions I would not have been physically able to give birth and would have been taken for a caesarean, something I definitly didn't want.
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I had my son by an emergency caesarian under general aneasthetic. For a longtime I felt cheated out of that rite of passage and felt quite jealous when my sister had a normal delivery at home. Some pain is part of the that passage but we are all different and too much can be equally traumtic as none at all, as in my case.
Ali from Holt
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Jenny from London
I gave birth 4 weeks ago. I wanted a natural birth, but ended up overdue and had really high blood pressure and I got induced. I found the pain much much worse than when my gangrenous appendix burst and developed periotnitis! I opted for an epidural which I really didnt want before I experienced labour. When it came to the pushing I could still feel what was happening and definately didn't take away from the whole experience! Until you can experience childbirth for yourself you cannot comment!!!
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RUBBISH !!!!! The purpose of childbirth pain(contractions)is purely physical.The pain which has to be endured,has a purpose which is to push the baby out of the femail body.It is as simple as that.I suffered a great deal of pain during childbirth.It did not make me bond with my baby,it had nothing to do with bonding.I did bond with my baby immediately but it was my motherly instinct,and the fact that this child was created by love,the love of a new child which I had carried for 9 months which made me bond with her. From Sue Allen in Sutton Coldfield.
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I had all 3 of my children completely naturally- not out of choice, but found that the pain actually helped the midwives realise that there was a problem so in my opinion the pain was beneficial as without it my youngest son would probably have died.
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The women to feel sorry for are the ones who would love to experience natural birth, but either have to have cesareans or can't get pregant. I am lucky enough to have had two wonderful natural births (after experiencing the trauma of infertility). All i had was gas & air, even for my first labour - 15 hours long. The pain was indeed a rite of passage, something I wouldn't have missed for anything, because it made me so proud; natural birth, in its unadulterated form, was a primeval experience I instinctively, desperately yearned to discover.
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i have two children and only with the second was I given even gas and airbut I thought both children well worth the effort. I felt that I was achieving something that only I could do. I wouldn't have had an epidural and I was in labour the first time for 15 hours.
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A recent accident left me with my hand half off as lorraine seen last week not as sore as childbirth i would like to say lorraine is fab very kind heated
thanks
xxx
mark mair
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I believe there is a purpose for the pain during childbirth, not just physiological but also psychological. It surely does help you to bond with your baby and the sense of achievement is indescribable. I have been lucky enough to go through the experience and it was wonderful. There is way too much emphasis on Pain relief during labour rather than emphasis on natural childbirth.
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i have had 4 children i with pain relieve and the other 3 no pain relieve and the dr who said bonding is more easier with out pain relieve is talking out his hat after the last 2 without pain relieve i suffered depression it is all down to the indival wheather they want pain relieve or not not for some one to tell us what to do there is too much of what we must do and not do just let us judge for ourself
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its too easy to take the popular line and ridicule any serious attempts at moving things on; standing up against the tide of popular opinion is hard and takes courage and I think what is being said is that we're going a bit soft and loosing our courage. I had three children in the 80's without any need for pain relief, just breathing and keeping it together although my first labour was 36 hrs. I wouldn't have missed a minute of it for anything. I think the dr is right, we could do with birthing partners and more help and support, not epidurals and other numbing aids. Beware Macduff!
penny kemp, Gwynedd.
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Bridget from Lincoln
I am a qualified Hypnotherapist and deliver a HypnoBirthing programme working with both the mother and birthing partner to give them skills to have the birth they want. The basis of the programme is that birth is a natural process which doesnt need to be a painful one. I teach them skills so that they can use deep relaxation and breathing techniques for a more natural birth.
I have worked with several couples who have all reported births with no drug intervention and babies that are more settled after birth because mother is relaxed during birth. If you want to know more look on www.taylormadehypnotherapy.co.uk
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My son was 11lb 13 at birth and was born in water at home with just gas and air, Epidurals are not necessary for everyone. I'd do it again in a heartbeat too!
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I have had 2 children both Girls, childbirth for both was unpleasent to say the least. I tried gas & air with both and pethadine with both neither of them helped alot the pain is unlike anything that anyone can imagine. I think that the chief midwife should speak with my husband and ask him how his hand is??? the oldest child is 3 years and he still has the scars!!!!!
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Dear One Show,
Why, when the majority of comment on her seem to be supporting the comments made by the Professor, did you choose only to read out only those that disagreed with him? Had you perhaps already made up your minds before hearing what we had to say?
Charlotte Albery-Jones, Bisley, Surrey
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The good doctor should know that if men had babies then the world would be underpopulated. Maybe not a bad thing but still let him try it for himself. Margaret Glasgow
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I was a Midwife and I also did part 3 ( had a baby) Frankly if a woman says she is in pain then she is. My labour was so short it was hardly worth notice, but and it is a HUGE BUT not all women are built the same and deliver the same.
While we want to encourage normal labour we must respect what women say otherwise we are back where we started, delivering in fear.
Queen Victoria was the person who made pain relief during labour acceptable. Prior to that it was said that women shall deliver in pain and travail.
WELL NOT ON MY WATCH IS ALL I HAVE TO SAY TO THOSE WHO WOULD DRAG US BACKWARDS.
If your wish is to do without pain relief then fine, but don't force those views on the rest of us.
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I think a lot of people are missing the point - this man is not saying pain relief or epidurals should not be used at all. He is pointing out that too many women now do not even attempt to have a natural, intervention free birth, but demand everything possibly available from the moment they enter the birthing suite.
Using opiod drugs and epidurals early in labour increases the risks of complications - its a fact. With an epidural, you can't feel when to push, you can't move off the bed, you can't stand up etc. That cannot be a positive thing ever. Epidurals should be used where clinical need requires it. Of course women having prolonged, difficult and traumatic births should be able to have pain relief, but it should be made crystal clear to women that choosing everything under the sun the moment you set foot in the hospital is only going to prolong and complicate your delivery, possibly resulting in forceps/Ventouse or an emergency C-section. I am sure many women are NOT aware of the negative effects of epidural deliveries, and also of the opiod based pain killers which make the mother AND baby drowsy and which persist in the baby after it is born.
I made it clear in my birth plan that I did not want any pain relief including gas & air, yet the midwife tried to push it on me. I had to actively refuse it and argue with her! In the end, I had a lovely baby boy of 7lb 14oz with no pain relief at all. Yes, I had a tear and it hurt, but it was all so worth it and was forgotten within days.
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This is a rather interesting story because when i was pregnant with my Daughter (my 2nd child) i had way to much gas and i had an outer body experience, So when i had my last (my 3rd child)i didn't take ANY gas so it hurt like hell! haha.
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I had both my children in my mid-thirties and gave birth without any painkillers whatsoever. However, after the birth of my son I had a retained placenta and so was given an epidural so that I could cope with it being removed manually. I didn't feel a thing! How strange it would have been to give birth like that- I would have felt as if I'd just gone to the pet shop and bought a lovely puppy!
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Denis Walsh may be a man but this is irrelevant, as he makes a really valid point that we should try to reduce the intervention in normal childbirth, by helping women be realistically prepared and confident to try to use the pain of chidbirth in a positive way that helps the body's natural painkillers do their job. It is known that women who are supported well in childbirth need less analgesia. Epidurals have their place but they are not without complications and increase the risk of further intervention. As a midwife and a mother it was really disappointing to see the One Show trivialise and make a joke out of what is really an important isssue for all women and their families.
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For those thinking Dr Walsh is just an academic, I would like to point out he spent many years as a practising midwife, has always been at the forefront in promoting stress free, natural birth and is a quiet calm and gentle man who has reassured and supported many women in pregnancy, and during labour and delivery.
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MY STORY IS
My mum brainwashed me into thinking that giving birth was like shelling peas and lasted only around half an hour or so. My births were no more painful than my periods each month for 40 years, or a bad dose of constipation. The birth took 2 hours and it was great for bonding quickly.
I did the same with my daughter and she had 2 short births. The first was natural and lasted around half an hour. The second she said the pain was worse and took 3 hours with an epidural.
MY POINT IS:
Everyone has a different pain threshold, at different times, therefore some women who feel pain badly should be given other advice, apart from epidural, well before the birth. Fear is the biggest factor in childbirth and can be helped with distraction techniques at low level, to mind training such as Hypnotherapy and Yoga. This ensures that the baby has an easier time, as they feel pain too, and a longer birth is more traumatic for the baby. Exhaused babies take longer to recover this affects the bonding process. Obviously its more complex than this but we could do more to prepare mums wih more options.
Stop knocking the Doc. He does not need to be a woman to give avice!
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I had two children naturally with no pain relief and the last by c section. I much preferred the first two. The c section was an arranged emergency due to a placenta previa ie. the exit was blocked by the placenta, so I had to have it. I felt a bit cheated for some reason. right of passage? Some deep seated requirement... Don't know.
All I know is that the intervention.. pain relief and c section robbed me of something
Fiona Viant, Somerset
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154 postings, someone has hit a raw nerve, if you pardon the pun.
The pain of giving birth to my son was the worst pain I have ever had in my whole life, and I have had two fractured toes, and a fractured tibia, no one in their right mind would refuse pain relief if they had a broken bone. I would have bonded with my baby son whether I had pain or not, WHY! because he was so gorgeous.
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The One Show's introduction to this topic was sadly just as silly as the Daily Mail's article - all trivia and drama. I had 2 births in the early 70s (no epidurals anyway - a needle in your spine is a nasty idea) one with pethedine right at the end when no-body realised I was fully dilated, so I gave birth practically asleep to a very dozy baby! and one with some gas and air - much more satisfying. I would say that the most important thing in both was the support I received, better the 2nd time in a midwife led unit, and the yoga-type relaxation techniques I had been thoroughly taught and which I had practiced regularly for months. I have heard several stories recently of young women having prolonged labours with epidurals and wonder how well they are prepared. I feel the fear makes the actual event worse for many. Women should have the choice of anaesthesia but I know that for me moving around and relaxation helped. The relaxation exercises have also come in useful since!
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I have given birth to 2 children, both with no form of pain relief and I completely agree with Dr Walsh's comments. The NHS is in so much debt and women are routinely given expensive pain relief procedures like an epidural for no good reason. An epidural should only be used if it's absolutely necessary not just because a woman is experiencing the normal pain of childbirth. Of course it's painful, it's childbirth, but it's not going to kill you, you're built to do it, so just get on with it!
There are definitely benefits to giving birth naturally without pain relief. The labour is over more quickly, and you know when and how hard to push because you can feel everything. Both mother and baby recover quicker from the birth and as a mother you feel a great sense of accomplishment knowning that you acheived such a thing on your own.
I would definitely recommend a natural birth to everyone who is expecting, the pain is worth it for what you get out of it. It is not as bad as they make out on TV or in films. With my first baby I had to keep saying no to pain relief, with my second they didn't even ask me twice. I notice they did not read out any of the many comments advocating natural birth sans pain relief on the show, why is that?
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I was disappointed that the "quote" from the article by Dr Denis Walsh was taken completely out of context. I heard Dr Walsh speaking on Radio 4 yesterday morning when he said that he was in fact promoting more one to one support for mothers in labour and that the pain would not be so great if mothers to be were prepared and and fully supported at every stage.
I am speaking as the mother of 4 children born in the 60's when support was minimal and pain relief was "gas and air". I had large babies and one was breach so it was no picnic. However, it did not kill me and the joy of motherhood greatly outweighed the pain.
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I had my first baby in 1985, without pain relief. Despite attending antenatal classes I knew very little, except how to breathe! My Mum (who had me and my sisters at home in the 60s) told me "just when you think you can't bear it any more, it'll all be over". I started practising my 'breathing' during early laboour, and asking myself "can I bear any more?" after each contraction (to which the answer was always "I'll bear just one more"). 24 hours later, as I made my way to the maternity unit, I was getting very good at coping with the contractions. The midwives had put me off arriving too early because every labour room was busy - and when I got there I had to wait a further 2 hours for a room. By which time I was fully dilated and ready to push. At this stage I was offered gas and air - but it was far too late for that - I needed my wits about me to get on with the job in hand! I still cannot find words to explain just how proud I was of myself for having done the cleverest thing in the world all on my own. I have never been a very confident person, but I truly believe that knowing I had gone it alone during childbirth, and then supported my baby afterwards by breastfeeding, gave me the confidence to cope with everything else motherhood has thrown at me.
I went on to have 2 more children - each labour was different - but I knew that, having done it on my own once, I could do it again.
The fact that the maternity unit was full on that first occasion was the best thing that could have happened to me since, had drugs been offered I'm sure I would have accepted them, altering experiences that I will treasure forever.
It wasn't until several years later that I trained as a midwife. (By coincidience Denis Walsh was one of my teachers.) From knowing virtually nothing - I learned all the theory that backed up my own experiences. I also learned how intervention (which includes the use of drugs for pain relief) in an otherwise 'normal' birth can cause things to go wrong. And I learned about all the conditions requiring intervention to bring about the best outcomes. I believe that many women are still being asked to make childbirth choices that can negatively affect their birth experiences, their health, and that of their children, without the benefit of adequate education.
I have been pleasantly surprised that the majority of comments here are in support of the idea that childbirth (where there are no known complications) without pain relieving drugs is generally beneficial to Mums and babies. Many more women commenting here have had positive experiences than negative. It is a shame, therefore, that the comment read out at the end of The One Show yesterday evening did not reflect this. I am heartened that this extremely important issue appears to be recognised by many. Unfortunately, it is still often trivialised in the media. It would be wonderful if a popular show, like The One Show, would take seriously those (like Denis Walsh) who have studied natural childbirth. It will take the education of the nation as a whole to revolutionise childbirth to the extent that the majority of women have positive 'natural' childbirth experiences to pass on, rather than the horror stories that still frighten young women today.
Well researched information and advice to improve childbirth for all women is available - those with 'normal' pregnancies for whom there is evidence that drugs often do more harm than good, as well as those with 'abnormal' pregnancies requiring drugs. I feel sure that the media could play an important role in achieving a situation where all women have the knowledge and support to make healthier childbirth choices. Women will remember the birth of each of their children for the rest of their lives. Those with access to the public could pass on positive and truthful representations and information to improve childbirth experiences for the majority of women. It frustrates me that, seemingly preferring the drama of painful childbirth stories, they don't.
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I strongly disagree with Dr Denis Walsh over pain releif.
I was 3 weeks overdue with my first child, a girl and was induced. I had a 36 hr labour and had an epidural. Even though it only worked mainly on one side it was worth it as the pain was such I thought I was dying.
My 2nd child (36wks) was a stillbirth, I had an epidural again and it was the most pain free of all, which was very greatful for due to the loss at the time.
Anyway, I since went on to have 4 more children, 3 boys and a girl.
The boys were all induced slightly early due to previous late pregnancy loss, but even though all lasted 24-30 hours labour, which I had an epidural for each.
My last a girl, again I was 3 weeks overdue and after being pregnant a few times said they wouldn't induce due to the weakness of my womb and thought that the baby would arrive naturally, but they were wrong and eventually I had to be induced with her. I was supposed to get the epidural early but didn't get it till quite late into labour which I am still upset about. I feel that not getting the epidural on time caused extra pain, anxiety and stress which didn't help an ongoing heart problems I was having during the end of the pregnancy.
I feel this made things worse, due to the epidural not being administered at the right time. If it had, it might have aleviated the situation somewhat and I wouldn't have collapsed a few days later on my return home from hospital.
Dr Denis Walsh hasn't had and will never be able to experience the trauma, and it is a trauma, of what most women have to go through to have children.
We don't all drop them quickly and easily within minutes, those I feel are very few and far between, who can actually cope without any pain releif, but most of us can't cope, but there is one thing we do try our best.
I wonder if it explains why many women died in childbirth before pain releif? Maybe you should research that Dr Denis Walsh.
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It is interesting that many of you do not realise that the vagina is a as amazing as the penis for increasing its size. What I am reading as a midwife is the fear of passing a baby through the birth canal. The muscles are designed to stretch if you allow them too. Just like a man he needs to be relaxed to gain an erection for the smooth muscle to allow engorgement so the vagina can when you relax to birthing - increase its capacity. Believe me as a midwife that has over her practice seen how wonderful the capacity is once I have the mother relaxed and confident. A subnote it can me orgasmic too! believe me it can and I have had many a mother say to me after.."marj...dont know how to say this but I actually ..enjoyed it" well you can please Girls remember you are Goddesses. Read Ina May Gaskins work on birth, an american midwife.
Babies need a the normal biological stress of birthing to trigger all the adaptablity of their system to life out of the womb. LSCS is not the best delivery and the newborn can be admitted to SCBU with taccypoenia of the newborn - breathing difficulty. Plus you have the most wonderful organ the womb scarred. Epidural leads to an increase likelihood for LSCS..though many mothers do not use the mobility of the epidural to gain postural benefits of not being sat on your coccyx!
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My first pregnancy was very high risk. It was an induced labour and highly monitored. I wasnt allowed to walk around to relieve my pain - and the only pain relief offered to me was an epidural. Since I wanted to go natural in order to safeguard my childs health and so that I could remember it all without the haze of drugs I declined. Had I taken the drug, I AND my child would have been spared the next 18 hours of intense pain and suffering. In my case, from the collar bone down there was such intense pain that I couldnt breathe, and in my child's case her heart kept stuttering and at one time stopped beating. They were going to prep me for a c-section and thats when I got an epidural - and thats when the baby came by herself! The dr said that had I been given the epidural right off, I would have been in labour for less then half the time I was! It was the prolonged pain of childbirth that was actually causing the increase in difficulty for us, and endangered her.
The next pregnancy was also high risk, and when labour began the dr suggested that we try the epidrual straight off, instead of waiting.
I had no blurred time periods, was clear as a bell during the whole birth process, and was then able to cuddle and bond with my baby instantly afterwards instead of having to lay there recovering from the pain while my baby was being hooked up to monitors!
The third time we again had a high risk pregnancy, and again the choice was left up to us about pain medications. The epidural was no hinderance and gave us the freedom to enjoy the experience. And again, I was able to cuddle with my baby immediately afterwards!
I would choose an epidural everytime for myself - but strongly believe that its a womans CHOICE. It should be available for those who want it.
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Hi, I'm Emillie from Glasgow
I've had 4 children and my first daughter (8lbs 2oz) was a completely natural birth and after 41 hours of labour...yes - 41 hours(!)...i had a baby and my husband had 2 broken fingers! i promised never to have a natural childbirth again!! My son was born (7lbs 12oz)with gas & air and the pain was unreal! When I found that I was pregnant late last year I decided that I's be having an epi and yes the doctor tried to talk me out of it and while i was in labour for 24 and a half hours giving birth to my twins was fantastic! If I do get pregnant again I will definately be having pain relief...no debate.
Also, no man can comment about childbirth pain...I agree with the women that have said try pushing a watermelon out a small crevice then we'll listen to your opinions!
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As a Retired Midwife and mother I neither agree nor disagree with Dr Denis Walsh Professer of Midwifery. I Believe they have their place but should not be used soley for pain relief in the first instance as Firstly--They do not completly kill the pain and
Secondly--Any intervention leads to more intervention and a higher likelyhood of surgical intervention
However it can be a godsend it those women who are labouring for days on end and may need surgery in the end. These women end up being physically, mentally and emotionally drained and they then have to start breast feeding within hours.
This is not a good introduction to Motherhood and this mother will be terrified to go ahead with another pregnancy and will probably demand an elective C/S if she does.
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as a man i feel that i really shouldn't comment (my wife has already said she'd divorce me if i did...) but here goes...
my wife has had 4 children and i think that no man can possibly understand the pain. my wife was in excrutiating pain for nearly 2 days with our first and there was nothing i could do. she broke my thumb and told me that if i ever did that to her again, she'd kill me - needless to say we've had 3 more and i'm still here!!
i hated seeing my wife in pain and despite having 4 fabulous kids i'd never ask her to have a baby without pain relief.
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I recently gave birth to my first child. I was in labour for a total of 62 long, exhausting hours. We went to the maternity hospital and after a lot of waiting my contractions went back to every half hour so I was sent home. Once we had arrived home my contractions became more frequent and stayed like that for hours, and hours, and hours. I was in so much agony that I was almost climbing the walls. I'd had no sleep for 4 nights and was exhausted. It eventually reached the point where I could take no more and was sobbing with pain and was starting to feel the urge to push. We went back to the hospital (and believe me I felt every single lump and bump in the road). I begged the midwife to give me some form of pain relief - anything. I had my examination and was then told that I couldn't have any pain relief as I was too far gone (i think I wimpered at this point). Anyway a couple of hours later our beautiful daughter was born. It was the most painful thing I have ever experienced but it was well worth it and I would do it all again. Next time I don't think I will opt for pain relief. I've done it before and I can do it again.
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