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For The One Show, Angellica Bell has been looking at the state of modern-day feminism - the movement for women's rights. She was told that women across the country are knitting and baking more, as they strive to become domestic goddesses. Many women are wanting to stay at home, rather than pursue a career.
Angellica visited trendsetting Goldsmiths University in London, (past alumni include Vivienne Westwood and Damian Hirst). Goldsmiths students have recently opened a branch of the Women's Institute, better known for family values than radical politics.
So, men and women are now equal, so feminism is irrelevant? Can you bake a cake and still be a feminist? Or do we still badly need a movement for women's rights? Share your views and experiences below.
Comments
I think that feminism is still needed in this country otherwise we may as well all just be men.
If women are changing to suit the new age and becoming more male then shouldn't men do the same and become more female?
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Where has feminism gone? It seems to have died when it is most needed in the world
I would have thought that it was greatly needed especially in Islamic countries where women seem to still be down trodden by men. This obviously applies to our country also.
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feminist groups are no longer needed - that doesn't include the WI who have always been sensible. Most feminist groups are nothing but bastions of misandry and prejudice to the core.
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I think its good that women have a group, institute etc. Men still have their men only bars in clubs where women cant go to have a drink
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Feminism is just as necessary as it ever has been. However, as things have changed, what is more apparent than ever is than men need to raise their consciousnesses to gender politics the way feminism did for (many) women. The gross disparities between the genders in everyday life have lessened, but we must become more aware of who we are, and how we relate. I fear that the consumer culture has turned the current generation away from important political questions - perhpas the credit crunch will refocus minds!
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I don't think we still need feminism - women are more than equal now, they have more control than they've ever had. I am a woman and I dislike that I get frowned upon by other women because I stand up for men...
I can bake a cake, I can clean the entire house, I can cook dinner and I can be as "free" as men are.
I do not think that we still need a movement for equality. I think some things are still a little unfair for women, e.g. being paid less but we will still get maximum time off for maternity leave and men get minimal paternity leave. Pay unfair possibly, but there are many inequalities for men also.
The W.I. society is fantastic! Women gaining careers but also still wanting to bake cakes, etc!
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No more Feminism?
Yay!!
That means that women are now safe.
That means rape no longer exists.
That means women get equal pay and are treated with equality.
You know I could go on...
And at last its all over, we can all have respect for each other.
No, please don't wake me up, I like it in the One Shows little dream world!
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Absolutely needed for equal pay, equal pensions, reducing domestic violence, reducing unwanted pregnancy with the right to choose, use the Women's National Commission - check its website www.thewnc.gov.uk and get involved. Do it all and bake a cake to celebrate be equal and different!
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Of course feminism is still needed. The UK is far from achieveing anything remotely resembling gender equality. Feminism is constantly marked out as extreme and outdated which is is far from the reality.
Good for Goldsmiths. I think they are showing a sensible and mature attitude to feminism. Excellent that they have the choice.
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It's fair to say that women and men are legally equal, but our society still retains many attitudes that are prejudiced towards both sexes. For example the emphasis put on women`s looks above that of their intelligence and personality. You frequently see women who are smart and beautiful in the media, but never women who are just smart.
The problem is that these immaterial attitudes are much harder to change than material laws, so there is only a limited amount a cohesive political movement like feminism can achieve.
I do love the recent transformation of the WI; from being a means of escape for women from a male-dominated society, it's now a place for women to engage with each other and on issues that effect everyone. I'm thinking in particular of the Holybourne WI branch which has been very vocal on the issue of legalizing prostitution.
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Feminism remains a relevent movement in the 21st century. Current lap-dancing legislation and the reemergence of beauty pageants (now taking place in some of the Uk's top universities) means that the rights of women must continue to be protected.
Rather than being about "radical politics" or a discussion about a woman's 'compatibility' with feminist principles, feminism must be acknowledged as a positive movement to further gender equality in society as a whole.
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If anyone is in doubt about the importance of feminism, then they should take a look at some of the excellent feminist weblogs offering commentary on the many issues that still privilege men over women.
For instance:
http://www.thefword.org.uk/blog/index
http://www.feministe.us/blog/ (more USA oriented)
and of course, for those like lab-rat @ #3, who don't know anything about what feminism actually is, there's always:
http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/
Which also will help answer the question about baking a cake (the short answer is, yes you can be feminist and choose baking - but the key point is to define and shape one's own life rather than pushing oneself into a gendered stereotype).
PaulCoyne @ #5 touches on the importance of men understanding how gender affects us too, because men are also oppressed and harmed by the gendered structures of society, and understanding how that works is an important part of liberating ourselves. Men have a lot to gain from feminism.
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While feminism has done a lot for women its down side appears to be the defeminising of women their behaviour is now more masculine lager louts, swearing in public not given the curtesys my generation used to give. It seems they admire our worst traits
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I believe that we need more women to get in touch with their feminine side. Feminine to me means to celebrate the fact that I am female, to take joy in being a woman and the fact that I am different from men. Notice i said different, not inferior. Men and women have different roles within society and should not compete for these roles. We have a genetic predisposition for these roles that has become blurred over the years and men have become emasculated as the PC brigade have taken over and given jobs to women that would be better done by a man. As a result many women are disappointed with the lack of real men in the world. I say more feminine, less feminist
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Yes - we most certainly do need feminism. I am not too bothered by the detailed meaning of the term feminism - I would go for a female-orientated approach to things and a proper equality between the various sexes. I would say that the domestic arts are part of our heritage as women and it gives me great pleasure to see women willing to cook and make clothes. Yet there is a feminist take on the domestic arts - which is that we do them because we want to - not to service men or society.
I can be seen on a BBC news shot of the 1971 (I think) march in London waving a banner - which shows I have cared about feminism for a long time - probably since I was a child.
I think the principles are as valid now as they have ever been - they need to be seen in a different context.
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The problem is that feminism has been tainted by the perception that it only deals with issues regarding gender, and is not understood as it should be - an important philosophy that proposes another way of thinking and living our lives. It is an idea that participates in constantly readdressing positions, and listens rather than dictates. Baking cakes and knitting are just good sense! They have nothing to do with feminism. If people think we live in a fluid 'equal' world, then they are gravely mistaken, just switch on the 6 o'clock news and ask yourself are we living in harmony?... when you can say yes, then you can ask if we can do without feminism.
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Deborah - Southampton
I believe that we need more women to get in touch with their feminine side. Feminine to me means to celebrate the fact that I am female, to take joy in being a woman and the fact that I am different from men. Notice i said different, not inferior. Men and women have different roles within society and should not compete for these roles. We have a genetic predisposition for these roles that has become blurred over the years and men have become emasculated as the PC brigade have taken over and given jobs to women that would be better done by a man. As a result many women are disappointed with the lack of real men in the world. I say more feminine, less feminist
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Yes we need feminism more than ever. It has been miscontrued as equal meaning same. Women have just gone more and more over to the male way of life.
Considering MOST creative things, homemaking, cooking, child rearing, caring has been done by females thus should be valued highly not just at least equally. (MOST destruction over thousands of years, the planet,war, murder, rape etc. done by males).
Reward us for what we enjoy doing not bribe us with money to follow male paths.
The choice is what we need so as our we achieve our full potential using our talents. Glorify our gifts not football.
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Contrary to suggestions men are not equal under the law to women. There are many areas of law that clearly discriminate against men (disproportionate sentencing for men in comparison to women, the family courts, discriminatory distribution of public money in health and welfare and the lack of legal protections for fatherhood). In fact men are hugely discriminated against under the law which very often stems from the discriminatory legislation passed under the guise of equality.
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Lab-rat - I'd never suggest that the law was perfect, and I do believe that we men do lose out in some legal areas, such as paternity rights. We must fight for our rights as well. This is not anti-feminist. You're mistaken about what feminism is. It's not about doing down men. It's about women asserting themselves as women. It's about being more than "just" what genetics and patriarchal society permits them to be.
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PaulCoyne-
Thanks very much for your post, I'm sick of having to defend the feminist principal to overly defensive men. I always just tell them my favorite feminist quote:
"I do not wish them (women) to have power over men, but over themselves."
That's from Mary Wollstonecraft, author of A vindication of the rights of women, 1792.
People always thinks feminism equates to "I hate men," when it just doesn't.
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I have been enlightened in feminism a little, but there is still many people who I believe fight for women so much that they don't stop too look at men or the bigger picture...
Men are unsafe just as women are unsafe.
Domestic violence and rape wont just stop if women get more equal rights politically and legally.
Women may get less pay in some circumstances but get benefits in other aspects, such as longer leave with maternity.
I agree Lorna @15, cooking and making clothes, etc I embrace because it is a part of women's heritage. I am a young woman and get frowned upon by older women if I want to make my boyfriend dinner for when he gets home. Lorna's point is most important, I do it because I want to not because I feel I have to or because he makes me feel I should. Society is making me feel like I shouldn't embrace women's heritage.
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I am adding to mine at number 15:
Why are there not more entries about feminism?
Are we feminists afraid to stand up and be counted?
Have you all forgotten that within the lifetimes' of women still alive women did not have the vote? My mother was born before the vote and was a teenager when all women were able to vote.
The gains made by women in the 20th century could be rolled back if we are not eternally vigilant.
The One show should either have a feminist guest as soon as they can - or (and) re-examine the great classics from Mary Wolstencroft onwards where there are still messages for women in the 21st century.
Lorna - Tynemouth in North East England
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BGStarr - you are perfectly right - you should do things like cook for your boyfriend if that's what you want to do (and I feel patronising saying that, but I'm just trying to be clear). Also it does take more than legal changes to stop domestic violence. that's why I'm saying that men need to raise their consciousnesses. They also need not to feel emasculated. Emotional and physical security are rights for everyone.
We all need to be bigger than the stereotypes that some bloggers (not specifically here) make out. I am a man, I love my wife and children, I cook, I ride a harley and I'm a feminist. There are no contradictions in those statements
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I most deffinately think we need it because without it our young females are growing up not being taught the basics, cooking, sewing etc., if we dont teach them as their mothers they wont know and wont therefore be able to teach their own girls and all these much needed tasks/capabilities will die out....as sadly it is already doing...cant make cakes for school fetes due to health & safety - what rubbish!!! a fea cat hairs and fluff (probably other unmentionables in there for good measure) in kids cakes never killed me.....
There is nothing wrong with being able to "DO" in this life, more people should try it..even the men, i was always told by my father "you dont know what you can do until you try" how right he was. Being able to do gives a huge sence of achievement and satisfaction. Bring it on...
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Women are HALF the worlds population
Working TWO THIRDS of the worlds working hours
Receiving 10% of the worlds INCOME
Owning less than 1% of the worlds PROPERTY
Now ask yourself if we can do without feminism....
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It is unfortunate that feminism has come to mean the sort of equality shown in Loose Women - a programme that just takes the worst of male sexist behaviour and says its OK for women to behave in the same way. The sufragetttes and early feminists would look at ladette behaviour and wonder why they bothered.
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Until there's no longer a pay gap between the sexes, until women aren't passed over for promotion in favour of men for the simple reason that they might get pregnant and leave the company, we will still need feminism.
Don't confuse feminism with femininity. You can choose to be a stay-at-home Mum, join the WI and still be a feminist. For us, feminism is still about equal opportunities for women and the right to choose (clothing, careers, sexuality, social activities) without facing intolerance and discrimination. We owe it to the Suffragette movement to continue the work they started...and to vote! Join the WI by all means, but don't forget to vote!
The (mostly female) editorial team of The Fred & Flow
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As a male byestander of 50+ with a wife and children I have watched the rise of feminism from Germain Grier onward. What appears to have happened is that for many women it has been an overdue entitlement, but for many it has lead to the the removal of choice. In the 60's bright aspiring women were held back, this prompted the rise in feminism, but many women were not aspiring they wanted marriage, children and stability.
With the situation of two people working in "good" jobs lead to an abundance of disposible income, this being a move from the more traditional 1 main earner and 1 pin money. This lead to a rise in house prices, because asperations were raised due the additional funds. Women were saying that you can have it all - Jobs, House, Kids and holidays, and for some it was true. Then all of a sudden women were expected to go to work, and as house prices soon exceeded the old earnings ratio of 21/2*times husbands and 1*times wifes, then women had to go to work to pay for basics like a roof over their heads, and now they could not stop work to look after children. Children were looked after by child minders, or grandparents while mothers went to work to pay for them. For some, the wealthy professional, the aspiring businesswomen then feminism was a truly great achievement for many others it has lead to a life of isolation and drudgery.
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Above I said "Jobs, house, kids and holidays" what I should have said is "Career, house, kids and Holidays", because for some in areas like london this was the case. Later it was to become Job, house and kid and holiday, now for my daughter and her husband its Job,house and kid. Equality is good asperation but not everyone has the opotunity to work in a job with a career structure. those feminists who "have it all", do you ask your maid, cook, cleaner or nanny "Has feminism made your life better?". Do you talk to the girl in the shop and ask how her children are and does she manage working full time and run a home.
One side affect of the large influx of women into the workforce is that wage rates have steadily settled but in a downward direction for both sexes, now a lot of married couples rely on two moderate wages rather than 1 main wage and 1 lesser.
One small observation - women and children make communities not men, take the women out of a community and you reduce it to a barracks. When my wife took our kids to school she talked with other mums, now as I go to work all I see is rows of cars dropping off kids on their way to work.
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what a great quote that is...
"I do not wish them (women) to have power over men, but over themselves."
the glass ceiling is still very much in force
and yes, of course women can be proactive about their rights within society, and still bake a cake, what a silly notion that they couldnt!
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More female millionaires than male in the UK, Women own 48% of personal wealth, due to rise to 60% by 2025. Record number of females on boards of FTSE100. I think that women are more than equal now and it is time that males should be considered to be suffering from an over-reaction to historical problems.
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