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Everyone seems to hate the Child Support Agency don't they? But let's be honest, it was never going to be popular.
On paper it sounds like a good idea. Why not get parents who've left their children to contribute to their up-keep? It would save billions of pounds of taxpayers' money and hopefully make people a bit more careful about their parental responsibilities.
The problem is that the absentee parents felt got at - after all there's no more certain way of upsetting people than trying to force them to pay money they don't want to pay out.
And what's more, many of the parents left looking after the kids feel poorly treated too, complaining about computer errors and unfathomable calculation methods. And all too often the fact that the CSA didn't get the parent of their child to pay what was due.
So the big question is can the CSA's replacement do any better?
It's got an even more unappealing name. It's to be called the Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission - sound's like something out of George Orwell doesn't it? But it does seem some of the problems of the CSA have been addressed.
For a start, parents on benefit will no longer be obliged to use the Commission, they'll be able to come to their own agreements if they wish. Parents will also be able to keep more of the maintenance payments without it affecting their benefits - that's something many parents will be happy about.
But the big complaint from parents looking after kids on their own, was when the CSA failed to get any money from an absentee parent. So what will CMEC - as it is to be known - going to do about that?
Well, it has so really tough new powers. The CSA used to be able to deduct money direct from a parent's pay packet. CMEC will be able to go even further, it'll be able to deduct cash direct from bank accounts.
Does that sound like an improvement to you or do you think that any agency that tries to get absentee parents to pay for their children is on a hiding to nothing?
Find out more about the CSA and CMEC with the The National Association for Child Support Action in the UK.
Find out more answers on the Child Support Agency website
Comments
Why not simply call your programme The Labour Show? Can't wait for the Tories to start handing out P45s to you lot.
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After watching about the CSA, i hope that this new organisation will do better than the CSA has done.
but it does sound as if, once again, the fathers are being blamed.
Yes, the majority of absentee parents are fathers, but surely part of the problem could be the single mothers trying to claim much more of the fathers than they should be? surely the new agency should not just crack down on absentee fathers but also those women who try to use it for their own benefit rather than the childs?
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I have been fighting for payment from the CSA for 5 years. I saw solicitors and still nothing. I am meant to get a measly 2.50 a week but have not seen a penny. When I phoned the CSA they told me that they can not make him pay.
I have been considering seeing a solicitor to ask if it is possible to get full custody of my little girl. Thus way the CSA does not need to be involved any mor.e
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CMEC is ALREADY as bad as the CSA if not worse. They are using the change in abbreviation (as window dressing is ALL it really is) to increase the percentage of earnings payable by the absent parent, as, whilst they have decreased the 'headline' perecntage of income payable, it is now going to apply to the GROSS figure, before tax, NI and pension contributions etc.
This will increase ALL payments and is just a way of reducing the effective level of social security benefits payable.
RIP OFF BRITAIN and the failed Labour government at their best!!
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The CSA always seemed to be a good idea that was sent in the wrong direction from the outset.
Instead of chasing those that paid for children they should have been hunting down the "disappearing" fathers, the ones that planted a seed and then were never seen again leaving the tax payer to pick up the bill for their [carelessness / fun / stupidity].
If they had gone after those fathers then it would have been a godsend for everyone!!
Bob, Southampton
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I left my husband last year and my 15 year old son decided to stay with him. I don't mind paying towards my son's upbringing but I find it unfair that when I brought home £640 a month and my husband brought home £2,300, I was expected to pay £91 as well as rent, food, running a car so I could get to work (and take my son out). It wouldn't be so bad if my son actually saw any of this money. I wish I could pay the money directly into his bank account rather than his father's!
Sue, Kent
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My partner chased her ex partner for 10 years through the CSA. they never got a penny out of him. When they did catch up with him they decided he should not have to contribute anything to his 11 year old daughter despite being in full time employment. Madness
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Thank you for featuring this on your programme! I fought with the csa for years.
My ex husband who is self employed chose to declare a minimum amount of earnings to inland revenue, as a result, my son received a minimum amount of £5.00 a week...
This equals the amounts someone on benefits pays. With hundreds of thousands of pounds in assets, he got away with it.
Come on CSA, get the self employed sorted out. ps Good Luck Christine in Strictly!
Please keep my personal name anonymous !
thank you !
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The csa did need to change,however the new one last week sent me a letter saying That as I paid by dd i didn't have to do anything! My youngest is 23 years old and left college at 19!!!!!!!
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I have just watched your article on the CSA and i found that as usual it was very biased towards the mothers. Unlike some fathers that don't pay. I have been made to pay for them (or that is how it feels). When i asked for a CSA tribunal i was given a date that i was unable to make and they made the judgemnet on my behalf. As they was no right of appeal. I was left paying a £7000 fee instead of a fee of around £4000. Even when i went to my local office and even with the regional officer agreeing with me. The CSA still refused to changed the original figure. SO i have been left to pay the arrears. Now they have even more rights witheir new name they will undoubtedly still go for the easy targets as myself!!
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the amount of trouble that my partner has had from the csa after having a private arrangemant with his ex partner is ridiculous, because his ex parner is on benefits they said he culd not have a private arrangement and said he had to pay back 12.000 in two years and they could take forty per cent of his wages with out having to take in anything else like rent to pay and other children to pay for and they even admitted they had made a mistake with his eldest as he was paying a year too long for her it ws a complete and utter nightmare and still is we dont get enough to live on let alone anything else
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I am glad this poorly badly run sytem is going. It has taken me over 2yeras to have my case won. I had to take them to court. ICE have nlow taken on my case and they have said that this was the worsed case of the CSA getting wrong. How can you get them more power when they can even get it wrong the first time around.
They are badly run everything in the report was right. But why did you not get a comment from the csa say who they chase. They only chase people who pay. When in fact they should be looking at people who dont pay.
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I was getting maintenace voluntarily but went to the CSA for an increase as I knew my ex husband had a couple of increases in salary and large bonuses. The CSA would not ask him for a P60 to confirm his bonuses (£25,000+) which I felt was wrong and that the children should be benefitting from his annual bonus too. When he was made redundant this July he got a final off of 3 months salary (for which we received maintenance) and a 'golden handshake' of £40,000 for which the CSA would take nothing into account. My ex paid what he legally had to and at the end of the three months stops paying the maintenace altogether. I feel this is so unfair as I now have to claim Income Support and he has thousands of pounds in the bank.
Why should the tax payer have to cough up for my claim for Income Support?
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I have been paying the CSA for 12 years now, I was in arrears for a while and so paid extra to clear it off.
I now have a letter saying I owe £1000 in arrears again. On speaking to them they say they have no record of why I do and when from, but I do and have to pay it, direct from wages, I have no way of proving I have paid the arrears because they lump my payment into one, and not seperated into the main payment and the arrears.
I am powerless to stop it, because if my employer refuses they are fined.
Lets hope the new system is a whole lot better, it couldn't be worse.
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The CSA have repeatedly told me what my ex husband should be paying to support his daughter. however within 3 months of them telling him what he should pay he moved to france - he says because he had no intention of paying because they had said he needed to pay too much! Despite them consisently telling me they can't get any money from him because he's in france they have rubbed salt in the wound by sending me a statement every year to tell me what he should be paying and how much I'm owed! When I told them to stop I was told they had to continue to send me the statements so if he ever came back into the country they would know how much he owed! I seem to have stopped the statements by moving house!
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i was told by my now ex partner that he would tell then that he is on basic wage and get his accountant to say the same.... so in the end i had to have a private arrangement and he pays as little as possible.
i did go to the csa at the beginining but changed my mind and he told me that as im on maternity leave and on working tax that if he was to give me £300 it would end up being £150, so thats what he has given me.
i needed help and didnt get it
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What a joke! I couldn't stop laughing when I heard this.
I have paid more than £19000 in payments since 2001 and just this week i have received an letter telling me that due to mistakes being made in my assessment, that I owe them another £11434.59
Sorry, a mistake, if that was my business and it was made over a period of years, I would have to say, My bad luck.
In the long run, they do not chase the FATHERS who are not paying, they continue to badger, harass those who are paying because it easier for them to do that as there is no further work really to be done.
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i paid towards the upbringing of my two children for 6 years even though my ex was denying me access.
i carried on paying whilst going through the corrupt system called the "family courts" whilst my ex ignored contact orders, after three years she got my children to say they didn't want to see me, even though for the first two years they did, once the courts heard what the girls were saying they then said we can't force the children to see their dad and discharged the case, they didn't even look into why the children had changed their minds.
the CSA says payments and contact are seperate issues, the government keep calling fathers who don't pay towards their children deadbeat dads, but i pay and don't get to see them basically because the system from my point of view has failed.
Terry
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The CSA was a bad idea from the start, I was affected from both sides of the fence. My husband left leaving me with 2 young children on income support, received no money from my ex-husband through the CSA. My new husband also had a child from his first marriage and because he was a serving member of HM Forces was forced to pay out to the CSA for 1 child bearing in mind he was supporting three children, 2 step and 1 natural daughter as well as 1 daughter from previous. Any absent parent classed as paye/forces are all classed as easy targets. Self employed or mature students etc much harder to trace so not as much effort put into chasing these. Not good enough.
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hi i have been divorced for 8years had a minute of agreement through lawyers and stamp by the court, i had to pay for my three children never missed a month.as soon as the oldest was 16 there mother kept the kids away.csa still wanted there money but nothin to do with the kids and access.even the law of the land can do nothing about it.the hole system is wrong what happens to fathers who pay but cant get access.i have since married again getting on with life but the system needs to help paying fathers like me
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once again the real facts about what the csa is doing have been overlooked. They constantly break laws, they cause people to commit suicide, and they chase the people already paying support for arrears they have caused due to maladministration. If anyone needs a forum to turn to go to, afairercsaforall.co.uk. You will get help and advice from people in the same boat. The BBC make me so angry, the csa is killing people!!!!
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Paul stockwood Bristol
I was never able to claim a penny .
I had my two children from 1991 they are now grown up 23 and 21.
As a male single parent I was bemused to find csa had no claim forms for male,s.
When I met someone new who moved in with me whithin 2 weeks she had a letter from the csa asking who the father of her children were ?
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6 years ago my husband recieved a letter from the CSA telling him he needed to make payments for his 15 year old child in Liverpool. Had he not had a vasectomy in 1984 this could have been quite devastating for our relationship! Worryingly they had his NI number and all his details! How many people has this happened to?? When we complained they (eventually) coughed up £100 by way of compensation...
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I hope that the new agency/enforcement team will do a better job collecting the debts that absent fathers owe.
I have been waiting 3 years to recieve money off my ex for his son. He's self employed and runs his own business which rakes it in.
The CSA have not managed to do anything for me in 3 years as when they contact him, he says he's not him and it goes around in circles. Maybe the enforcement will have more powers for this sort of thing, I hope so anyway as he owes me and my son thousands!!!
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I have had so many problems with the CSA. When my husband left I was left with 2 young children and all the bills to pay. Initially my husband continued to work and the CSA asessed the amount he should pay but they never collected anything. Then my ex husband decided to go to university to do a masters degree so the law says he does not have to pay despite the fact he is working as well. He is now doing a PHD which apparently can last up to 5 years. The CSA told me he can work full time but if he is in higher education he does not have to pay a penny. This is so unfair, I have no choice but support my children but he can simply walk away and start a new life.
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Its not just single mothers that the CSA failed. I am a single father the CSA would have done better if I had been in fact a mother. My exwife was claiming to be unemployed but was working in a shop with her new husband doing shifts when he husband was not there. Although the CSA caught her working in the shop they still not change the £5 a fournight i received for my kids. Luckily for me it was the principle more than the money as i was able to support my children on my money, but it would have been benificial to have some extra mony to treat the kids with and i believe both parents should support their children. I feel sorry for those who have difficulty making ends meet when they do not get the money they deserve. I feel I would have had more chance of the CSA fighting my case if I was female.
Alan Bradshaw
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It seems to me that this is an agency for mothers only and against the dads - i am the dad and have had my son for the last four years and my daughter for the last year - that is five years - with no support at all - i have now been slapped with a liability order for £5,000 - the CSA are happy to pursue payment for the mother and will not even consider my part in have the children -
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Lab Rat - just for your information, the CSA was started by the Tories.
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I await with baited breath about the "new" CSA. Haven't we heard that once before? I have always believed that the csa should be fair. Up until now, that is definitely not the case. Let's hope they get it right this time. It is all very well showing mothers who say they are hard done by, but what about the fathers? I have to pay child maintenance, but I never see my son, because my ex is obstructive to contact. Court action has no effect, just costs me more. The CSA should make allowances for fathers who are forced to spend thousands of pounds taking their ex to court. Furthermore, the divorce was not my fault. My ex ran off with someone else. Where is the fairness in that? My ex earns twice as much as I, so why do I have to pay only to make her life better? The CSA is a nonsense.
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The governement has in place an efficient cash collection machine (tax) and distrubtion process (social security) why does it need a C.S.A? All they need to do is collect the money due from tax payers, and reduce the payments to beneficiaries of the benifit system. Why make problems?
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My husband has paid over £29,500 to his ex wife over the last 7 years. He was made redundant 2 years ago and went self employed. He did not have the money each month to pay the CSA as he only earned £3000 per year whist self employed. His daughter now lives with us and has done for the last 6 weeks while she was still with her mum he gave her money for clothes etc -BUT STILL THE CSA CHASE HIM. Why cant these people chase the ones that wont pay. I dont ask my ex for anything for my children as I have them for a week and then he has them for a week. If more mothers let the dads see their kids then there would be no need for the pathetic CSA.....
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I was disgusted with tonights item. Justin has taken exactly the same prejudicial line that the CSA take. 3 times he said either absent fathers or absent dad. once he said absent parent. I was divorced 12 years ago, my wife left our 11 yr old daughter in my care completely whilst i imediately obtained shared custody of our 5 yr old son. 75% care in anybody's books but I have been persecuted by the CSA to the extent that I almost gave up work because I'd have been better off. In an era where there is supposedto be equality we should be accepting that not only do mums go absent but that they too should contribute.
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parklanemonster
it was 'reformed' and made worse by Labour.
Now they've chosen some new random catchy letters to give it a new name.
Same old. Same old.
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i do agree that csa needs to change i have been trying to receive maintenance from my ex partner for 14 years throught the csa and still to this day have not had a penny.
They do not really seem to do very much.
If i call them they try for a while then seem to give up till i call them again to see what is going on.
I hope the new system is better and can chase these absent fathers who really just dont want to pay and seem to get away with it.
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Perhaps they could also look into why so much of the tax payers money is given willy nilly to single parents. I'm a working single mum, who with my wage and voluntary maintainence from my husband of ten years managed to feed, clothe and keep a roof over the heads of my children.
After persuation from others I applied for Working Tax Credits and Child Tax Credits, (I was reluctant to apply after the media broadcast so many horror stories of overpayments etc).
I was astonished to discover that after declaring my income, the maintainence I recieve and my Child Benefit, I was entitled to over three hundred pounds a month!!! and I was given NHS exemption from dental, medical and optical costs for myself.
This allowed more comfort and a little luxury but it seemed odd!! I manage my finances carefully, I'd coped without these payments for two years but I was indeed entitled to them.
In my third year I was completing the renewal application over the phone and again declared the maintainence as "other Income", the person on the other end of the phone asked what this payment was, when I told them it was maintainence from my childrens father, they told me that maintainence is NOT included when working out how much WTC and CTC should be awarded and therefore my monthly entitlement would increase by £100 per month!!!
This is madness!!!! if my husband was paying a £1000 a month to me I would still be entitled to £420 per month of the tax payers money, because my wage is low and I am a single parent!!! WHAT'S IT ALL ABOUT ???? tax payers shouldn't be expected to provide single parents with luxury!!!
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There is one point that no one seems to mention about the CSA. There are plenty of fathers like myself who want to have regular contact with their children but have problems due to the mother. One of the things the CSA do (which favours the woman) is if the absent father does have contact, lets says 2 nights per week then the father will only have to pay 5/7ths of the assessment. If the child doesn’t stay with the absent father for the 2 nights, then the mother will receive the full amount. This encourages mothers not to let the Fathers have contact. Especially those who are money mad.
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Yet again the focus is on the Mothers, I wish for the sake of honest fathers that DO pay that their case's are heard.
I was hounded by the CSA for years demanding ridiculous amounts of money that i had to reluctantly pay, dont get me wrong I do and still do contribute to my daughters upbringing but this does need to be fair, they need to their act together on the calculation of payments, if they did this in a fair manor more 'fathers' would pay.
I know we are in an economic disaster but £315 per month for one child is far too much!!!
Mothers are pushed to the CSA under pier pressure instead of agreeing with the other parent a sensible amount to contribute they go for all they can get. In turn there are loop holes in the current system and 'fathers' will use this unfortunately.
CSA or what ever they are called now, leave the fathers who do pay, stop beating them up and get your act together to chase the people who do not pay otherwise this new set up will fail.
BBC, please do another report on the CSA but from a true fathers perspective who does pay and listen to the what WE have had to go through
thanks
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I had an agreement with my ex wife for payments for my daughter which for years worked perfectly well all concerned were happy. Now my ex wife has been on benefit for a few months after losing her job and I have ended up paying nearly half my salary direct to the CSA. So far my payments have not been paid to her and to make matters worse I am now in a position where I cannot have any form of life other than paying the government a tax of around 70% on my salary. I have paid over the last 6 months nearly £3,000 and all that has been forwarded to cover my daughter is one payment of around £350.00 last month. I cannot afford to make this sort of payments but have been told that even if I lost my job or left I would still be liable for the full amount and would end up very seriously in debt. I used to be able to spend time with my daughter but find that I can no longer have the contact that I used to have. I cannot afford to help with the things that my daughter needs, new uniform, new shoes, all the things I used to contribute to.
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Why as a absent father do I have my chidren 48% of the time then? Why do I have to pay my ex wife for looking after my children when she has them? She does not pay me for having them! As an absent father I am not entitled to any benifits or support. Surely each case should be taken on merit and in cases where the chidren spend 50% of the time with each partent then each parent should be responsible for paying to look after their children during that time. The current system makes kids financial pawns. If a person is ABSENt they should pay up to the 50% of the time which they should be entitled to as a matter of course. The system is flawed twisted and corrupt. By all means pay pursue the non paying absent parents up hill and down dale but leave the fair honest people who put their children 1st in a different bracket as tarring evertone with the same brush causes stress and upset.
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It is not always the case that the father will not pay csa,in my case I just can`t aford to pay what they are asking for.And it dosen`t help when they will not take into account all off your out goings each month,but just base it on your income.
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The CSA disgusts me, I have had no money since April for my childrens father leaving me over £40 a week under the legal amount stated by the government we need to live on. They refused to speak to me on 3 occasions and told me several different versions of why it was taking so long to re assess him. I am extremely unwell and unable to work so after 5 letters and 2 not overly polite phone calls to the benfits agency I am now (since Sept 5th) being topped up by income support. I resent having to beg for the money my children deserve to ensure they are fed and warm. It cannot believe that I have still not heard anything from them and fail to see how a change of name will help. I challenge anyone to survive paying all the bills and feeding 3 on just over £100 a week. Thats exactly what I had to for 6 months. When you consider I have to put £12 on the electric meter I was left with just over £90 for food, water rates, gas, phone, tv licence, house insurance, car insurance, petrol etc etc etc ..................
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My ex left me when the kids were young - having cheated on me. I managed to secure equal shared care. Net result I work and have care half of the time. I am looked on as parent with care for one kid and non resident parent for the other. The ex receives maintenance for the latter but lives off this, state benefits and money from her family. I receive nothing because the CSA says she has zero income. Ten years on she has no mortgage, a new car, savings. And I know I'm lucky because I have my kids half the time. Many women prevent Dads having access to the children because they get more maintenance that way. I just hope the new system is fairer.....
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hi im kevin im bringing up my four daughters on my own. my ex wife left 5 years ago to be with someone else. she works and just bought a house with her new husband but all i got from the csa was 20pound amonth. this is cause her new partner is self employed and knows the tricks to get round the system. this was going on for four years so i just gave up when the payments stopped. why is it allways the men that accussed. i have to work all my days off to pay for my carers. hope for some help.
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Reading on hear that my payments could go up under the new system, fills me with dread. I paid on time, every month and usually I had to chase the CSA to take my money!!
I was out of work for over a year and to get back into employment i took a large pay cut. I can't afford to pay now, by the time I pay my bills (mortgage, gas, council, petrol to work etc), I'm left with nothing, if I'm forced to pay more then I would have to think about quiting my job and going back on the dole.
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I am currently on benefits. I am 9000 in arrears.
I have been paying off the amout at 104 pound a month.
the CSA want me to pay 500+ pounds a month. I don't even get £400 pounds a month, but the CSA aren't listening or willing to agree a figure that i can pay!
The stupid thing is that the arrears were the CSA's fault in the first place.
AND now the new body will make things even worse as they can just take it from my bank account without assessing me properly.
I feel like topping myself at times, but my daughter wouldn't have her dad.
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I am currently having an ongoing battle with the csa as my ex refuses to pay. He is appealing about an amount he paid several years ago and although I have been told money should be taken directly from his wages I have received no money for almost a year! Every time I call I am told something is being done which it obviously isn't. I have been told to make a complaint and I can also make an appeal as he is supposed to pay £22.50 a month for two children. I know that he is playing the system as he deliberately reduces his hours at work when the csa are undertaking any assessments. I find the whole csa organisation a joke particularly as they state their purpose is to collect money for the children. They also claim to have turnaround times of 5-7 working days to make a phone call. Anything which can improve this service would be excellent although I doubt for honest people it will.
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hi , The csa demanded £700 a month for my three children . I was paying cash to my ex up till that point . I thought that was a bit high considering I was earning a normal wage . It drove me to near breaking point as NO one in the csa really listened to what I was saying . It took hours to get through to someone you could hardly understand . My ex and I came to a private agreement which involved a solicitor . Thats been running now for five years and just recently I recieved a letter from the csa saying I owed £713 for two children as the other one has reach 19 . So they still dont listen .
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My ex husband has not paid a penny in the past 13 years. He claims he is not working. I offered the detail of the workplace to the CSA and was told it wasnt their business? I should contact benefit fraud. He has been on holidays abroad - I watch with interest if his passport is withdrawn!!
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CSA has been very ineffective my ex owed thousands to his previous wife despite deduction of earnings order, he just changed jobs! He then stopped working in order to get zero rating and sent me out to work.
Since then we have seperated and I am now struggling to get money for our children. Because he has moved in with a partner who has children the amount he pays is reduced, despite their dad supporting his ex-wife.
The system seems unfair!
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Having worked for the Child Support Agency for nearly 10 years i can certainly say i have seen huge improvements in the customer service and real outcomes for both parent with care and non-resident parent.
We are involved in peoples lives at a very difficult time and dealing with families and money isnt easy.
There are also a lot of non-resident parents who dodge inland revenue, council tax and debt companies but we are expected to be able to find them. As much as i wish we dont have any 'special powers'
In an ideal world we would look at every case individually and assess on their circumstances but in reality this isnt possible.
Perhaps the Child Support Agency would get better results if the non-resident parents actively avoiding paying were made to feel guilty or ashamed by society rather than encouraged by websites to evade the agency.
Also maybe a thought for the staff who are really trying to do their best. The media putting them down all the time, an unreliable computer system and verbal abuse from clients when they are just trying to do a job.
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Why is no mention made on any programme discussing the CSA, in relation to the divorced father who is paying. The CSA will not spend money to chase non-payers but will only cause more disruption to those who do. I was unemployed for 8 weeks and sent all the requested documentation to the CSA (P45, letter from previous employer etc) I did not sign-n the dole because it is against my principles. I survived on a loan from my future father in law. As i was not working and not claiming benefit, the CSA decided that i must have other income and sent me a bill for £2500. I can only complain to them to get this corrected and, surprise, surprise, they said that this payment would remain owing!! I pay regularly and on time and am still treated like a criminal, merely because i am divorced. I work hard and struggle to pay bills, have no holidays or treats of any kind. I have spoken to my ex-wife and she does not receive most of the money i pay! Why should i pay the government (quite happy to pay wife) for being divorced and be treated as some kind of undesirable because my marriage did not work????? The CSA act in an illegal manner on a regular basis and not in line with the current law, who will protect the father who pays when they receive even more power?????
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Its not only fathers who do not pay, i have been chasing payment for 4 years from my ex-wife but when they finally tracked her down after 3 years she just moved jobs.So the whole process had to start again so i still have not received anything!
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The CSA is a complete joke, only interested in getting as much money from the absent? parent. I had an amicable agreement with my ex partner I paid her every month an agreed amount and I saw my daughter at least half the week. When my daughter was 5 my ex told me that she was moving to Germany as her now partner had joined the forces giving me only 2 weeks notice, she then contacted the CSA who decided the amount I had to pay but was not interested in the fact that I had no contact as my ex was refusing me contact. After a legal battle to get 4 weeks a year contact?? the CSA refuse to give me any allowance against travel and I am left paying full maintance along with a £3000+ travel bill to make sure I keep in contact with my daughter for all of 4 weeks. They need to look at case individually, and get rid of the Kangaroo Court appeal system. James, Glasgow
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my son-in-law pays money to the csa monthly for my grandson, but my daughter has to wait months to get it, when she rings the csa to find out were it is, they can never find it in the system
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A new system of assessment was started in 2003 for new cases. This was supposed to be fairer for all concerned. The government promised that when it was running ok, they would transfer the pre existing cases to this system. I'm still waiting. This system would have saved me thousands over the last 5 years. I have no problem with paying, it's a matter of what is fair payment. Also, it is people who work in stable jobs, paid by the state that are targetted for payment. What about the self employed who pay nothing and just keep hiding their money. Those who go off to foreign countries, they don't get looked at either. Some of us are just easy targets.
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The CSA failed to collect any maintenance from my sons father for 7years. After that time he was assessed and pays £11.29 a week!!!!
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I remarried a woman from a non EU country. We have one of her daughters living with us and one still living outside of the EU. We recieve child benefit for the daughter in the UK but nothing for the other daughter. We recieve no support from my wife's ex-husband for his children which is understandable.
What infuriates me is that although my wife doesn't recieve any maintenance for her daughter's she has been ordered to pay towards the upkeep of my two girls who live with my ex-wife.
I pay maintenance out of my wages and they take a further 25% of my contributions as they claim that my wife contributes to the household! ROBBERY!
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I have been waiting 2 years for payments from my ex because he is self employed. He has now been assessed at 7 pounds per week for 2 children!!! This has been backdated but he is still failing to pay!!!
CSA have failed to chase his arrears or his £7 week despite numerous telephone calls.
My ex husband is currently driving round town in a convertable toyota sports car!! but because he is self employed he has only had to give an estimated earnings!!
|Why do absent parents continue to get away with avoiding payments and arrears because of CSA incompetency?
Why are absent parents allowed to give estimated earnings just because they are self employed?!
And why is my ex husband getting away having with a luxury lifesyle, whilst my sons dont even receive the £7 a week he should be paying, let alone the arrears from the last 2 years!
If i had a penny for every excuse CSA gave me I certainly would have more than £7 a week!!!!!
Sort out self employed assessments! and sort outthe Debt Enforcement Department at CSA!!
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I have never dealt with a more disorganised agency than the CSA. Everytime you contact them you get a different answer depending on who you talk to. There is no internal communication within the CSA and the formula to work out payments is also unfair. My marriage broke up because my wife ran off with someone else. I never wanted by daughter to go and would glady have taken care of her myself. Yet it's always the father who gets landed with an unrealistic amount to pay while my ex is swanning around in a new car and taken holidays whilst I can't afford to take my daughter on holiday. The CSA are now taken the maintenance from my salary which is unfair as I asked for them to give me a break down of payments, someone in the CSA said they would get me a breakdown but before they did they just said they would take it from my salary. Then they say that travel costs are worked out as the crow flys, do I drive my car over fields or perhaps go by helicopter. I borrowed money from my relative and paid them back monthly like a mortgage, the csa wouldn't take this into account, i've now had to re mortgage my house as they say I owe them back pay, meaning that I'm paying £525 a month for the next for months. I could go on and on, good bye CSA hope the new one is better
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My son is currently paying 30% of his wages to the C.S.A while other people only pay 15% ,will this change under the new system?
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The CSA is appalling. It does not represent the right of anybody involved. After my husband stopped payment after a couple of years, he volunteered £50,-- a month. The CSA was not able to collect any money due to him being selfployed. There was a silence of approx. 3-4 years from the CSA, I didn't pursue. In 2006 I received a phone call from the CSA that it would be possible to get payment after all, was I interested in keeping the claim alive. I hesitated because I initially thought there wasn't any innings in it. Now comes the impossible, this phone call was in September shortly before Christmas I received a letter from the CSA saying that I owe them money!!! I strongly rebuke that claim. What kind of an institution is this, so that I cannot rely upon their accuracy when working out claims, so that I supposedly end up owing them money!!
To make matters worse my ex got annoyed being contacted by the CSA again and stopped the measly voluntary payment of £50,-- a month. For the last 2 1/2 years I received nothing for my child. Anyway do people think you stop caring emotionally and financially when your child stops fulltime ed. what about the support they need at uni??
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I fought for 15 years to get payments. My ex-partner was in full time employment and in the beginning the CSA were sending me letters stating i would receive £200 per month then all of a sudden it changed to letters stating the amount due to be paid is 0.00. I had soooo many arguments with the CSA and never got anywhere or any straight forward answers. I was told he did not have to pay towards the upkeep of his child as he now has others and a wife he needs to support. To this day i still get letters from them stating i am entitled to 0.00. My blood boils every time. The CSA is a complete waste of time and it will never change no matter how they dress it up.
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The CSA billed me nearlly three thousand pounds, I proved with wage slips which also had the regular CSA PAYMENTS BEING DEDUCTED FROM THE WAGE slips, that there was no way i owed that amount, they expected me to pay in full within 14 days after the first letter recieved or they would either imprison me or take my driving licence away, now i work,WHERES THE SENSE IN TAKING MY LICENCE?? I was the one who set up the CSA not the parent with care, as I wanted to contribute more than the parent with care wanted to recieve.
I tried to appeal against this amount as they have had proof that the amount was incorrect and I was informed by a manager of the CSA debt inforcement that they would not back date it, and that I should remortage my current home or borrow money from family. This period from which they were incorrectly charging me I was already making full payments to them, they have said there is no record of my constant phone calls or letters to them in the three year period.
They ended up scaring me so much that I paid the £3000 on top of my regular payments. Now if they can back date payments why on earth can we not backdate a claim against us with proof that the amount they bill us for is incorrect???
I was suicidal with the amount of stress they caused me.
I am not able to re-marry after my divorce due to the amount they would take if we married.
Its no wonder there are men on the roof dressed as BATMAN and ROBIN.
I am so sure the way they handled my case was against the law.
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The system needs to be set up, so that the absent parent can see how the money is being spent on the child. There is currently no requirement for parents with care to evidence what they spend money on - It is for the child and in many cases it not spent on them.
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Hi dazzlermc , Thats exactly what I went through . No one listens
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my ex-husband and i divorced when my son was 4 1/2 - ive chased the csa for years - he then went on disability benefit - they sent a letter to me saying that this type of benefit did not qualify for the minimum amount payable at that time - i then found out that he was working - i telephoned the csa and told them this i also told them that he was meant to be of work due to a back injury even tho he was motocross racing every week - still they did nothing - after many many phone calls i was told to video him working to prove it ! pardon me!!
i telephoned them every week after and eventually they decided to do a full search on him. feeling hopeful at last i bagan to have faith - i recieved a letter stating he owed over 3.000 to me but that i owed them £37 - and that i had to pay them!!! i eventually got this quosed - why do i owe them money?!
im now getting payments when HE feels like it - even tho they did set up a deductions of earnings he stopped working for that employer and since took up another job - he ducks and dives all the time - hopefully this new firm will stop him in his tracks - it takes two to produce a life so should take two to bring them up
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Yes, the csa did/does need to change. However i worked for the csa when it changed from the old to the new rules with all good intentions of the system being far more effective and maintenance being paid sooner and much easier yet here we are again with the same problem.
The csa employs in my opinion high calibre "over qualified" members of staff and the pressure and stress of the job teamed with low wages makes for low morale and esteem within teams. The government need to make ensure that if non resident parents don't maintain their children then they will have money taken from their bank account or money deducted from their benefit, it is apparent that the current situation has too many flaws and it is the children who ultimately suffer.
I would also like to add that whilst the majority of non-resident parents are fathers the percentage of non-resident parents who are mothers is also very high. It should not affect anyone's judgement and a parent is a parent regardless of sex and is obliged to maintain their child/children.
It is all too easy to blame the employees of the agency for the bad publicity but in reality the government needs to adopt a firmer approach to maintenance enforcement which can be relied upon by its consumers.
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Is this new system going to change the number of cases that have been incorrectly assessed creating a further backlog of cases due to reassessment. I don't think so. giving them more powers may seem a good thing but will it result in the willing NRP's being persecuted further. A good site for more advice for all can be found at afairercsaforall.co.uk
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Couple of points about the CSA!...
1) How many 'in arrears' parents are caused by CSA's inefficiency? They claim I am in arrears to the tune of £200 for four years, which I contest. They have never resolved this.
2) when I approach CSA they take months to work out new amount owing, so I automatically start in arrears.
3) They miscalculated my payment and I had to pay back nine months worth of arrears after they had miscalculated (even though they had all the information to hand right at the start)
4) They went straight to my previous employer without telling me- presumably at my ex's request, , even though I had kept them informed of my salary and benefits.
4) They took a payment twice from me, refused to refund this saying would case hardship. Instead they wanted it payed back over a year.
They and their computer genrated letters are biased against dads.
5) When my ex told me I hadn't made payments, they refused all evidence, including copies of my wife's bank statements, that showed otherwise.
6) All their letters used to be very aggressive ' we have decided that' and 'if you don't pay ...' even though I volunteeerd all the information required.
7) we received £100 compensation for their mishandling of our case.
I have no confidence that the new organisation, or its computer system designed by idiots, will be any fairer, or treat each case individually.
To cap it all (and I know this is irrelevant to CSA) , my ex wife has alienated my two sons against me, I have not seen them for years, and the family courts did nothing about this (I wasted at least £15000 on useless barrister and solictor who just went with the flow).
Found out the other day my wife has changed one of my son's schools. I just get the reports and photos if the school is on the ball.
The whole system needs a revamp, It assumes that we are all dread beat dads, when we are not.
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All children should have an income regardless as a right. All society should contribute. Everyone benefits from the next generation. The people who raise the children do the work a 24/7 job. The people who have no children receive the benefits too. The next generation are the nurses, dentists etc. etc. that we all need. Put it in the same department as pensions. Result no CSA needed.
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What about if the absent parrant pays the house ie mortgage mortgage inssurance buildings and contents and a loan before the split but still want more only way is for me to go homeless
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I am completely and utterly offended and appalled by the use of the phrase “absent fathers/parents” this implies that the father abandoned his children which in many cases is simply not true. The term non resident father is a little better, I for one do not want to absent or even non resident.
Why should a Father pay for children he is being prevented from seeing by the Mother? She benefits from higher payments if she does not allow overnight contact!!! Furthermore it is entirely possible (although very unlikely) for the Father to have more than 50% of overnight contact and yet still have to pay the Mother!!! Why?
Solution – on the split of a couple for whatever reason both parents are legally entitled to 50% contact. If one of the parents declines to take contact then they should be charged for the missed contact, totally fair!!!
Is there any wonder why so many Fathers are reluctant to pay? Make it fair!!!
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I have been dealing with the csa for 7 years now scince my split from my ex husband.We are stuck on the old system.
My x husbands works the old system and gets away with it. He privately rents out a home from relations. he says he pays full rent on paper (Which he doesn't) and gets the full discount.
I want to know when people like me who are stuck on the old system are going to be put over to the new system? people on the new system do not have living allowences Its a percentage of thier wages which means my children would get more if i was on the new system.
I am very unhappy that they are not using the new system for all clients.
I feel its very unfair and want to see
the change happen sooner so my children and others get the correct and resonable monthly payments?
Please could the one show investigate this for me?
thanks
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lets hope that the new change coming will be a good one (though I have my doubts). My maintenance is taken directly from my ex's wages yet I still don't get my money whenever I call the CSA they just tell me that my payments are lost in the system, its so frustrating kowing that I am strugging whilst the CSA have all my payments in there bank accounts. My child is now nearly 9 so you an imagine they owe me thousands!!!!
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The CSA were unable to prove income where the absent parent, the father of my children, was self-employed. He produced papers which showed that he was not able to pay anything, despite his very affluent lifestyle and a high income from his businesses. I hope that the new organisation has more teeth and more powers to investigate such men who laugh in the face of officials and renege on their responsibilities for the day to day care of their children.
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Sorry me again, forot something else, I get that incensed with this topic it outrages me...
The system is totally unfair, my wife could leave ME nothing to do with me and she can claim from me even though it was her that left me.
She could earn 500k a year plus and still claim for the hell of it....correct me if i am wrong that can not be correct.
Listen, the mother 'screws' the father for as much as they can through the CSA, there is no thought for the child in question infact they use they child, 'i was told if you dont pay you dont see your dauhter'
I had to go through 3 court sessions to eventually get access.
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr get it sorted CSA and report from the other side BBC
thanks
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THE CHILD SUPPORT AGENCY OR WHOEVER THEY WANT TO CALL THEMSELVES NOWADAYS ARE ALWAYS BACKING THE WOMEN , THEY HAVE'NT MOVED WITH THE TIMES , NOWADAYS WOMEN HAVE MORE AFFAIRS , RESULTING IN DIVORCE .
THE MAN THEN LOSES HIS HOUSE AND A VAST AMOUNT OF HIS INCOME ,
AND NOW YOUR GOING TO TAKE THE MONEY STRAIGHT FROM HIS BANK ACCOUNT WITHOUT EVEN THE SLIGHTEST KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED AND YOU DONT GIVE A TOSS ,
IT NEVER WORKED AND IT NEVER WILL , UNTIL YOU GET BOTH SIDES OF THE STORY ,
MOST OF THE TIME THE CHILDREN WOULD BE BETTER OFF LIVING WITH THE FATHER , NOT ALL WOMEN ARE ANGELS .
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After many, many years of nil monies because ex-husband worked for his Dad he had to get a proper job like us all! My monies were stopped soon after because my ex-husband got a mortgage after he paid for another house outright and moved out of it but kept it! So under the 'Old Scheme' he is allowed to pay this. I informed the CSA of a first house he owned and forwarded the details. They upheld the asset until weeks after the award his father told the CSA that his brother is living in house number one rent free suddenly although he is not and I have proof. An empty property means full Council tax as well but having a 'rent free lodger' means this is reduced by 25%, all family. Ever only family backing him up and never any evidence. just letters from Dad not even the brother!!! BUT THE CSA ALWAYS FALL FOR IT
My income means I cannot afford solicitors and so I fight alone against the CSA and HIM!
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I am being told I owe money even though I have paid what they asked for. It turns out my calculations was worked out on a 51 week schedule. This is madness there are 52 weeks in a year. I would like to point out the word absentee father keeps being mentioned. I have paid through a court order for my children. On my son's 18th birthday the court order finished, however my ex wife went to the CSA for payment until Aug of this year despite knowing I was paying the money into an account for my son. She has now denied him that money which was toward his university expenses. I hope the new agency takes each case on its own merits. I have & always have been willing to pay for my children, all I have received from the CSA Is misinformation.
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I have had untold problems with the CSA. Usually the absent parent doesn't want to pay, this is why the CSA are involved in the first place! My ex husband had a booklet supplied by the CSA which detailed his rights! This meant he could do everything in his power to avoid paying and if forced to pay, keep his payments unfairly low. For example, he cut his working hours during his assessment period so his income appeared lower. He even told them our son stayed with him two nights a week so his payments were reduced, which was a lie. It seamed that each time he lied or ignored their letters the CSA gave him the benefit of the doubt while I waited patiently for a payment of some kind. It was unbelievably frustrating!! My low income and expenses involved in raising our children were not considered by the CSA at all. I now recieve a minimal ammount of maintenance through the CSA. I know my ex is earning much more than that on which the CSA has based his payments but I cannot stand the hassle of asking them to re assess him. I'm afraid this will only end in loosing the payments which a currently receive. I just pray that the changeover to the new Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission doesn't cause more headaches!
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I have 2 children by 2 different dads. One dad pays regularly via the csa, the other one quits his job when the csa start sniffing. I am owed over £12.000 by the second dad. Is this change going to make it any better? Probably not. As long as absent parents can get away with it, they will.
As a single parent, and its not by choice, any money coming in is useful.
I put my claim in in 2002 for the second dad and the first phone call back was in early 2008.
Where do we stand and will we be better off???
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The CSA have been involved with pressure groups and for some time. The outcome has been if the CSA did not treat absent fathers as criminals and offer financial ruin then they would be better received and have more fathers willing to contribute. Unfortunately, they have lost the moral high ground which makes it ok to duck and dive the monstrous, unwarranted and devastating impact of the CSA. Reform will not change the CSA as they have been given greater powers to demand money by private companies on behalf of the government and in a unprecedented ruling will continue to demand money from fathers even in the event of DEATH… yeah they’ve changed all right.
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as the law stands even if my ex was a millionaire I would have to pay him, I am a part-time, single mother , the debt agency have proved I cannot afford to pay him what they are asking for.They take it out of my wages directly as I disagreed with it.I hope this inequality in the system will change.Surely taking into account salaries of both parents would be a much fairer way to fund the childrens needs.
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I paid my ex-wife £300 per month for my children, she went to the CSA and I was asked to pay £240 which served her right! I paid until one of the two boys came to live with me when I advised them that she had one child and I had the other.
Three years later they informed me that I owed thousands in back payments. I went to the Ombudsman and my MP and after two years of fighting the CSA admitted they were wrong. Because it was their fault they were forced to pay my ex-wife the money they said I owed! They also paid me for various bits and pieces including compensation. The total we recieved from the CSA was double what they said I owed but we all lost out because it was taxpayers money!
The whole thing was a matter of complete and utter incompetence by CSA manageent. I felt sorry for the workers who don't deserve to be the butt of the anger of their clients. Can you get hold of a manager? Can you hell!
Do you think the new organisation will be any better, oh look there's a leg of pork flying across the sky! It seems to me that the CSA or whatever its called are looking for soft targets, those who are willing and able to pay and not looking at the really refusers (like my ex-wife) who didn't pay a penny towards my childs upkeep hen she should have.
Can I suggest that those who are fighting the CSA involve their MP as soon as possible and the ombudsman as well. It will only be with political pressure that things will change.
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The Child Support Agency was flawed from the start and successive agencies and departments have carried on the flaws and errors. I don't see how it's going to change by giving it to this new organisation. The whole thing needs to be scrapped and handed back to the courts or family courts where individual cases can be dealt with on an individual basis. The time limitations for evidence and appeals also needs to be reviewed. Fairness and NRP rights to access also needs to be incorporated into the system. If this was a war it would be 'Vietnam'!...a total disaster...where the casualties have been the families that have been destroyed due to ill-thought government intervention.
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I work for the CSA and agree that the system is unfair. On the other side of the coin it is not only the customers who are suffering, the staff are disillusioned, stressed & struggling with a system that doesn't work. Many have left after years of service because they just can't stand it anymore. I believe the change to CMEC is also the goverments way of taking a step back from what they know is a mess! No longer a government body but a public one. Who will they blame now for it all? I would love to be able to do my job properly, but the system makes it impossible. At the end of the day even if the system did work, you could never make everyone happy. Peoples relationships are diverse and complicated, you will never be able to sort that out on a computer system.
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I think that the new CSA should look at cases all individually. I know that a lot of fathers are being made to pay more money than they can realistically afford because of angry and bitter ex-wives/partners. This is NOT in the best interest of the child. People should not be paying for their ex-partners lifestyle. The money paid is to pay for anything the child needs, not so that the ex can go on holiday, etc. I agree that ALL parents should pay for their children, but don't let it become a form of revenge. Look at Fathers For Justice, lots of fathers are not allowed to see their children just because of an angry ex-wife/partner. It's the children who lose out at the end of it.
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What the current press tend to forget that prior to the implementation of the CSA, benefit fraud was rife due to undeclared maintenance payments. This may seem trivial until you realise that some parents with care of children were actually getting more money from state benefits and maintenance than someone with children who worked. You may find that this was one of the main reasons that the Conservatives introduced the CSA in the first place.
I see nothing in the present governments literature regarding the new commission that addresses this matter, so it would appear under the new system, which gives more say for mutual settlements, that it would be very easy for the two parties involved to collude one pays less in maintenance and the other skims the benefits system, both are quids in, thus allowing the tax payer to financially support their children.
It would appear that the taxpayer in this country is now expected to keep other peoples children without the right to question why. After all it is not the done thing to question what others call child poverty.
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I think every absent parent should be forced to cough up money to meet their responsibilities, however, being the 2nd wife of someone with kids being paid for via the CSA I know that we have been hounded by that organisation. My husband pays and has paid every week since they were born but still they write, and threaten and show no flexibility in their approach - its brought us financially to our knees and almost ruined our marriage.
I hope any new organisation spends time dealing with those parents who have never paid a penny rather than those who meet their responsibilities head on.
Perhaps its the easiest option to threaten and hound paying 'non resident parents'.
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My ex husband owes my children £11500 the CSA have spent 2 1/2 years traking him down they now have him and they have said if he pays me monthley from now on they will forget the debt and hold it over him as a threat so he will continue to pay. What happened when they needed shoes and clothes could i go to the shops and say i will pay you when my ex husband does . If i diddnt pay my mortgage and was in £11500 debr would they say ok if you start to pay now we will forget the arrears. I dont think so.
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I agree that the CSA harrass the absent parents who are willing to pay. For me it was the best method of payment via my employer but the CSA wanted and took much more and for longer and all because I was willing to provide all the information they requested. Even after being told my payments were ceasing after 8 years, they cocked up (was a year too early) and demanded I pay back the 'arrears' immediately. Error, after error, after error. Oh and they usually send the 'bad news' out for you to receive on a Friday, just in time to ruin your weekend! No way can they not find the absent parents - it is the system that is cocked up. Glad to hear it will be got rid of but hope that for other parents sake it will be a fair and consistent substitute. And remember if you do fall foul of either of the 2, there are benefits available so that you can afford to visit your children - well, I would like to think so as they can leave you with very little to live on. I wanted to and did pay for my children but this agency made life very tough indeed.
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Unfortunately I have had nothing but negative experiences from the CSA. After 10 years they have failed to collect anything from my childrens father for more than 7 of these, I regularly phone to give them updates only to be told that the debt is in the hands of a private debt collection agency, they have the ability to deduct at source be very rarely action this. I have always worked & struggled to provide, the only parents I know that have been helped by the CSA are those on benefits as then part of the maintenance is then deducted from the benefits they receive!(saving the government coffers yey again)
My ex owes in excess of £20,000, what are the CSA going to do, just tell me that the debt will follow him to his grave, what use is that to me or my children?!!!!
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it took 4 years to get any maintenance then it was through a detachment of earnings .i kept getting letters saying i would get at least £100 more than i ever did, but i did get something every month for 8 years then last month the payments stoped. every time i phone i speak to adifferant person and have to go through the details again only to be told they cant tell me if il get any more payments or not.I work but if i am not going to get any more maintenance i could claim houseing beifit ,but as they wount tell me i cant claim. my exhusband can see the children when ever he likes but has chosen for the last 10 years to have no contact.
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I live with my partner who has two children, they live with their mother. He has to pay 20% of his income. She had all the money from the sale of the house and used the cash to buy somewhere to live, she works part time, gets benefits and has no outgoings. We have had to start from scratch and have a huge mortgage. I have a son from a previous relationship, who lives with us. My ex partner owns his own jewelery business, lives in an affluent area with no mortgage. Has all the luxuries a 4 x 4, a boat, a plasma TV, at least 3 holidays a year. Because he is self employed he claims he earns less than £200 per week therefore he is entitled to pay zero. We both work full time, my partner works 14 hour days just to keep up with the ever increasing outgoings. Although our outgoings go up the money he has to pay stays the same. Our outgoings are not taken into consideration!
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The CSA failed to collect any maintenance from my sons father for 7years. After that time he was assessed and pays £11.29 a week!!!! He has a good life style and has managed to fool the CSA. The only loser in this scenario is my son!!
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2 half years ago my payments stopped altogether the reason they gave was ex husband didnt have to pay anymore!!nothing had changed it was a error on their behalf. Cut a long story short hundreds of phone calls i eventually got my mp involved within 3 weeks they backdated it and apologised. However my ex has been told he has to pay backdated maintenance from last year and they are supposed to be getting a employment earnings order (apparently they cancelled the first one in error) - that was 5 months ago - still waiting.....
The worst thing is no one rings you to keep you informed.
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i pay for my daughter in other ways,
that means my ex does not have to pay,
phone,clothes,etc etc,
i plan on paying for her to go to university and presently give her extra money @ college,
the C.S.A. say i should stop paying this and pay them!!
if i do that my daughter will lose out.
my ex is out drinking a few times a week,she does not work and i graft hard and i dont get to go out,
she has 3 other kids from different fathers,
WHY SHOULD I PAY MY EX TO GO OUT AND MY DAUGHTER WILL NOT SEE ANY BENEFIT FROM MONEY PAID????
I WILL KEEP SUPPORTING MY DAUGHTER THE WAY I DO!!!!!!!!!!!!
this should go back to the old days of court an an agreemant between parents,
i would pay to the court or some one if the ex got vouchers for asda or something like that,
every case is different but those idiots at C.S.A have blinkers on!!!!!!!!
we are in the real world,
get some real people running it!!!!!!!!
she will not get money from me...
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There will not be much change, if any, still run by the same single minded, self centred, petty little middle management types. Please dont hold your breaths expecting to speak to the same person each time you call CMEC, it just won't happen.
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The csa don't take all circumstances into account. My ex left me to live with another guy she was seeing at the same time as me and took my son with her. I was soon slapped with a 500 a month assesment plus 4k arrears to pay so that they could live together. HOW IS THIS FAIR? No wonder they drive people to suicide!!!!!
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I agree with dave00dave (see comment 72).
My ex has stopped all access and moved to the other side of the country, and I was powerless to stop her.
It should be a requirement that, you are legally intitled to access to the child(ren) and that if access is refused then payment is withheld. (unless a court states the absent parent is unfit).
This would stop parents with care using the child(ren) like a pawn in a game of Chess.
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CSA re- rebranded who are they kidding i agree abscent parents should pay for the up bringing of there children.As a dad who does pay CSA i take exception to all us dads are shrugging are responsibiltys.My partener was the one who split up the family home so it wasn't my choice i love my twin boys with all i am i see them every other weekend and in the week.What upsets me is that i take home £196 pound a week by the time i take out my rent,gas electric,council tax,water rates food then my Csa i am left with £5 a week to live on i have had to take my car of the road cant run it and walk to work every day 5 miles a day. Haven't had a holiday since we split three years ago cant get involved in a relathionship especialy if they have a child i cant support myself let alone another family.When are they going to look at the out goings i have just to live not enjoy myself.Its actually getting to the point were i cant see my boys cant feed myself let alone them so i loose out seeing them and they loose out seeing there dad.Then i would be branded an abscent parent some of us men cant win.
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As a serving solider the CSA took maintenance from immeadiatelywhen i seperated from my ex-wife, now my children reside with me, and have done since March 2001, i have not received a single payment from CSA. After sveral hundreds of pounds in phone calls i have had several letters from them, but not a single penny of child support! It would appear every time the agency contact my ex-wife she either starts work or if she is in work stops working so they have to start the whole process all over again. They have on several occasions said they would deduct from source, to no avail. I have since given up hope of child support, my oldest child is now himself in the army, and my daughter has 3 years left in school. This as you can imagine has been very frustrating and feels that the CSA target the easy prey (ie serving soldiers from my experience) and when they "have o work to do thier job "we" have to suffer !
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***also as an added note I am a non resident mother.
I think I will be getting a CATWOMAN suit to join Batman and Robin.
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I fort for ages for the CSA to sort out my maintanance for my son, it finally took them 11 YEARS to sort it. My ex now ows me £11,000. They have arrange that I get £20 a week normal maintanance and he also has to pay back £5 a week for the arrears.I worked it out that my son will be in his 30`s before it is paid off!!! He was refusing to pay so now it gets taken out of his wages each month but his employer pays it when they feel like it. I think the hole system is pathetic and I don`t think the new system will be any better. I have recieved no end of letters from them telling me of varing amounts that I would be getting. Last month when I phoned them, they told me that I would be getting nearly £400 that month, when I finally recieved it I got £116.00 WHAT A JOKE!. I phoned them up and they said they were sorry that I was miss informed.
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listen up the csa have ruined me as a capable man i have mental problems beyond belief every time i got back on my feet got a good job the csa took it away for one child they deducted on average £350
i oly earned an average of £1150 by the time i got my domestic budget sorted i had £11 per week have the time of my life "not"
so when you think refuse to pay think ABILITY to pay i have not worked for 4 years the tax payer has copped for it
the csa/goverment has payed me £25000 in
benifits multyply that by men or women in the same boat no wonder we cant work
every timei try they use their enforcement tools so why go back to work
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I have had a really good experience with the CSA. I had the name of someone to contact and my calls were always logged. In the early days of my separation I was advised that the courts would not get involved in a CSA judgement and vice versa (is this a Scotland only thing?) I didn't have to phone that often as estranged hubby was local government employee therefore tracing him would not be an issue. Am extremely miffed about change in law regarding matrimonial home now being valued at date of divorce/separation agreement instead of date of separation.
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The change of name will make no difference to the incompetance of the CSA, they, when trying to claim back money no longer have to disclose their information or explain it to you when demanding large sums, in fact I was told that I was responsible for providing their past assessments and proving that I had paid them over the past 12 years as their new system didn't contain that information. This, as they demanded £15000 then two weeks later again phoned to say it was £8000 but wouldn't say why.
After paying direct for two years my Ex went back to the CSA and said the arrangement wasn't working and is now claiming the difference between what we agreed and their assessment.
Access to bank accounts without any accountability or responsibility or common sense is a terrifying prospect.
There has to be more fairness.
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Hi I just saw this article on the one show, I have seen a big change in the way my case has been handled. I chased the CSA for nearly 6 years and never received a penny for the up keep of my son now aged 10.
To make things even worse I was told the computer system is now rejecting my case and it would have to be moved to Bolton CSA from Stockport CSA. Could it get any worse?
I received a shock to my system when for the first time in so many years the Bolton CSA office actually contacted me, with in a few weeks they had tracked down my ex partner, took care of the changes on my case and managed to keep me informed every step of the way. Now for the first time in 6 odd years I receive regular money direct from his wages paid into my bank account, Even though he has changed his job a few times to avoid paying money they still manage to keep on top of the changes. It's like god has finally answered my call
Should I suggest people who have had major problems ask for the cases to be transported to the Bolton CSA, if anything at least they would call you back & save you money on the phone bill.
Liz
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How refreshing! Not! How come whenever the C.S.A. is featured on television it is the same stories trotted out? How about a different take on the story? Such as the parents who were assessed under the pre-2003 C.S.A. rules and are still paying under that system because the government rules say that they will only be transferred to the new assessment system once it is fully up and running! FIVE YEARS! I personally am paying £50/wk more than i would be under the new assessment criteria and there are thousands more in the same boat. I have a headache from banging my head against this flagship of government incompetence.
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im a father at the early stages of claiming from my ex wife for my 13 year old daughter.
I sometimes feel as though im the only father that's ever done this, as all the talk is about chasing up absent fathers,never any mention of a mother being chased.
£8.00 a week from someone that runs a well established business is just a joke for a father trying to bring up a daughter in a world that £8.00 wouldn't cover bus fare to school and back for the week but that's another thing for another time.
Everything seemed fine with the C.S.A. at the start as all the paperwork was coming through on time and getting returned as quickly as possible.
I was told i had a case worker and i should talk to her each time i phoned,yet i ring all the time and have only been able to speak to her the very first time i rang,this doesn't look good for starters. Then im promised i'll get a return phone call which never arrives now that has been going on for weeks and you just don't know if anything is happening.
Any change would be a good start by the way things are going,as long as they are not just changing the name to try and make it any different.
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As the innocent party in a divorce, I ended up bringing up two children aged just 2 and 4 who my wife had deserted. I was left to foot all the bills without support or help.
When things didn't go my wife's way during the divorce she stage managed a bogus attack and tried to have me arrested. She failed but I was forced out of my house. I took the children and ended up living with my parents. As I was self employed I lost my equipment, place of work and all my money fighting a system that doesn't give a 'monkey's' about the man in a marriage breakdown. They are simply seen as guilty as husbands and totally inadequate as fathers. The CSA have the same bloody minded and unfair attitude as the courts. to them all fathers are targets - the softer the better, the more vunerable the more their sights are fixed on you.
In my case they interfered with a private maintenance arrangement. When I went into bankruptcy in 1997 I went back to the courts to have this private arrangement reassessed. To quote the courts - "I don't know how you have made any payments at all" and in light of the fact I had 123 days of staying access plus additional access during days, holidays and evenings, the court reduced my payments to a minimal amount.
Enter the CSA who don't recognise private arrangements, don't recognise the court's verdicts and ruling, don't recognise bankruptcy and have hounded me ever since.
It is impossible to talk to any one who has an IQ larger than their shoe size within their 'organisation'. They don't have access to the files, the don't have authority to access your case, they are rude, unhelpful and threatening.
At present I have 23 complaints against 6 different offices and 2 officers in particular who have openly lied to me. I have been threatened with bailiffs, court action but every time I try and resolve the issue the CSA move the goal posts. I have proved I wasn't an absentee father, so they said I had made insufficient provision for my children, this I disproved, now they want me to pay back the benefit my wife illegally claimed for the children.
I have turned up at offices and been refused to be seen. I am supposed to have a case officer, but the one allocated to me had gone off with stress 6 weeks BEFORE he was supposed to look at my case (that was in 2006). I have had an enforcement officer in my front room who was supposed to review my case - all she wanted was financial details and after 2 hours point blank refused to discuss my side of the arguement.
Despite submitting all my details 3 times the CSA have managed to lose all my records and have assessed everything on their emergency system.
I have just received a statement for £47,000 for money I don't owe, especially after the enforcement office admitted that 4 years of this total shouldn't be on the records at all and the remainder was not assessed properly and that no reduction had been made to allow for my contribution.
The best thing that could happen to these morons is they are lined up against a wall an shot - preferably slowly
If you want a good article for your programme invite myself and the CSA Chief Exec on the same show and I will prove why people hate them.
For all the misery they have caused me may they rot in hell
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There is most definitely a need for some organisation to chase errant parents who renage on their responsibility to their children, is it possible to perhaps add something to their tax codes so that wherever they end up working the money is taken? Also, I think where possible parents and the agency should sit down together and work out a suitable amount and not have a figure just pulled out from a hat, especially when an angry parent is just trying to be greedy.
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I was the first woman to have been subject to the CSA. Since my husband left I had always been the parent with care, but when teenage years approached my two sons were keen to live with their dad. Consequently, instead of my ex requesting to revisit the existing 1987 County Court order, which I felt would have been a much fairer calculation for my 'reverse' maintenance, my ex-husband's wife decided to intervene. I earned far less than my ex and his wife but I was forced to pay by DEO from my salary (an NHS 'sitting duck'). I paid far in excess every month in comparison to the amounts I had ever received from my ex. I therefore took legal advice and consequently went to the High Court in London (also had to pay Legal Aid costs), I then lost my case and so had to sell my house to pay the legal bill (over £8,000). As with the parent on the programme this evening, even when my youngest son was 19, I received constant demands for 'arrears' which the CSA insisted I owed (stating that the summer holidays from July to September were part of the previous school year)!! I finally managed to get the CSA to withdraw their demands but only after an inteminable battle. I had tried to phone them so many times over the years, that BT even had the CSA listed as one of my 'Friends & Family' !!!!!
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I have recently been assessed by the CSA. I actually agreed with my ex wife that this was the right thing, because I believe that a father should pay, despite the fact that I only see my 5 yr old daughter once a month because she lives so far away and my ex won't travel. However the CSA took into account my working vehicle expenses, and a hugely elevated commission calculation, but no account of travelling to collect and return my daughter and they refused to re consider under any circumstances. The assessment was so unfair that despite earning £30K + I gave my job up to become self employed. I now support a new family with 2 young girls and my new wife gets less for my step daughters than I was expected to pay for 1 child and he is on an almost identical salary. If my ex were able to deal direct, without being penalised I would have willingly paid 15% of my actual earnings, so effectively the CSA have achieved the opposite of their reason for existance, to provide for the child. Because I will definately not be prepared to co operate with them now, whatever they call themselves.
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Ludicrous. My solicitor told me that a parent cannot remove access because of payment issues.
One 'lady' (and I use the term loosely) told me that my husband didn't deserve to see his children if he couldn't pay more than £30per week per child!!
I agree with toddys69 - let family courts settle financial matters by discussing a sensible settlement between 2 people who once cared about each other (in many cases),
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I have dealt with the CSA for ten years. I have been an easy target as I work for a public service and have never dealt with the same officer in all that time. Each time I get different officer dealing with my case and none of them seem to know what they are doing. I have had a DEO on my earnings and the csa have helped themselves to what ever amount of money they have wanted, regardless of my living and housing costs. I have caught them out a number of times giving me incorrect information my case, yet I am still treated as if I am in the wrong all because I want a fair maintenance agreement. This department should be shut down not dressed up in another name. Parents should be able deal with maintenance at the same time as agreeing contact. sadly this is not the case and like me dads just end up as a cash point. The emotional needs of the child are put a long way behind the financial needs of the mother.
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The CMEC can only do better than the CSA. I just don't know why it has taken so long to realise that the CSA was a total waste of time. I originally made a claim to them in Jan 2002 and after constant phone calls to them to find out what was happening, i was told in Aug 2002 that my claim had been cancelled. When i queried this i was told it was due to the fact that i had no children! Considering i had 2 boys, this was not actually true. The case was reopened and then closed again some months later and i was then informed that it was due to the fact that my ex husband had not been living in the UK for the last 5 years! Again this was untrue, so the case was reopened again. In Feb 2003 i contacted them again and was told that they had not been able to make contact with my ex and so the case had been put on hold yet again. I pointed out that i had provided them with his contact details, so once again the case was reopened. I waited for another 6 months and heard nothing so called them again to find out was happening. They informed me they had contacted my ex and he had been sent a payment schedule for the maintenance. However after 6 weeks i still had had nothing so called them again and was told that no payment schedule had been sent so they had to start again. After a further 6 weeks of nothing, i called again to be told that they were about to put an attachment of earnings in place as he had failed to pay. After waiting a further 2 months i was then informed that they had accidently asked for £2.56 rather than £256 so needed to start the process again. By the time this was done my ex had walked out of his job. I then received only £5 a week through his income support. This lasted for 6 months and then stopped as my ex left the country. To this day i have heard or had nothing from the CSA. All they succeeded in doing was ensuring that my children now have no contact with their father and haven't done for the past 4 years.
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Response to Governmentcashcow: Don't hold your breath about payments going down - legislation covering 'new rules'means that it will only go down by £5 per week per year (thats right!). So if you like my husband are overpaying by £35 per week it will take 5 years (they speed the rate of reduction up) to get to what you should be paying. Absolutely ridiculous, wouldnt care if you had to find a £35 per week increase immediately though!!!
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My case with the csa started in 1995, my ex has always lived at the same address as he does now and ive even told them where he has worked so there was no excuse. the only payments i have received are since 2006, all from the arrrears. My 4 children have grown up and I have 4 grandchildren. I have had a solicitor on the case for over 2years and have been to an tribunal which was allowed. I am expecting to eventually get an advance payment but I really dont know how much longer it will take.
I worked for the agency for a while until appearing on GMTV about my case and the agency itself. While working for the agency you have to reach targets for first payment etc. so its obviouse to go for easy cases otherwise you could loose your job.
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Did anyone mention that when you complane to the CSA about the treatment you recive by the people that answer the phone they phone you back twice in the same day to say they are very sorry for the way you were treated and they will be touch with you soon about your complaint then you never here from them again.
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The CSA have a directive to recoup as much money as possible and the easy targets are the fathers who are already paying.The csa gave me arrears and backdated them without even assessing or informing me which are deducted from my wages and have made me and my partners life hell. My ex partner has remarried,both are working but her circumstances are not even taken into consideration which means that on my contact days i can't even afford to buy my son anything or take him anywhere. My son's welfare should be paramount, but their decision is having a damaging effect on my life and his life. What a shambles.
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I am reading many comments on how the fathers have their 'bit of fun', and leave the 'poor' mothers to get on with everything. I am a woman, and have had sexual relations for many years, and have NEVER become pregnant through lack of responsiblity. I do not know individual circumstances of pregnancies relating to these CSA claims, and have vast sympathy for those mothers who have been let down by their partners, or any other circumstances beyond their own control. But it is my opinion that not even half of these pregnancies are completely the fault of the now absent fathers. It takes two to 'tango', and if women are so irresponsible as to get themselves pregnant through lack of proper precausions, then I see no reason why these poor men should even consider ruining their short lives being a part of something they had no love for or any say in. I have heard many a conversation involving lazy lay-about women who have no intentions of paying their own way in society, discussing the beniefts of becoming a single mother; including government funding, CSA claims, and a free council flat!Anyone would think that this 'fun' previously refered to is single-sided!
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I am reading many comments on how the fathers have their 'bit of fun', and leave the 'poor' mothers to get on with everything. I am a woman, and have had sexual relations for many years, and have NEVER become pregnant through lack of responsiblity. I do not know individual circumstances of pregnancies relating to these CSA claims, and have vast sympathy for those mothers who have been let down by their partners, or any other circumstances beyond their own control. But it is my opinion that not even half of these pregnancies are completely the fault of the now absent fathers. It takes two to 'tango', and if women are so irresponsible as to get themselves pregnant through lack of proper precausions, then I see no reason why these poor men should even consider ruining their short lives being a part of something they had no love for or any say in. I have heard many a conversation involving lazy lay-about women who have no intentions of paying their own way in society, discussing the beniefts of becoming a single mother; including government funding, CSA claims, and a free council flat!Anyone would think that this 'fun' previously refered to is single-sided! Amy in Kent.
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Terry / bluenosetel: Absolutely right about the family courts. My ex wife left our daughter in my care and felt that it was fair to have our son and deny me access - I was convinced that the court would identify the fact that she wanted to split them up whilst I wanted to keep them together. The whole thing was manipulated so that it was agreed that our daughter would stay with me and then she was out of the equation so that when it came to court the judge was blissfully unaware that he was splitting the children up. Worse still I had to listen to the court welfare officer ask my son where he wanted to live, he replied "with dad and (sister)" upon which he was told "you're not old enough to make that choice" Why then was he asked? Simple - because sexual discrimination only works one way and he assumed that our son would choose mum
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after watching your article on the csa i felt that i needed to respond as a forced absentee father... I had payed £600 per month voluntary for the years since we seprated in september 2002 but stopped paying 2005 when my ex sent a soliciters letter demanding more. i also had all the bills to pay as well, my ex recieved 75% of the house equity (£58,000), all her mothers inheritance of £25,000, and our french timeshare.
I suggested going to the CSA where i thought we would be able to sort out a FAIR settlement as i feel it is the absentee parents duty to pay towards the childrens upbringing, believe me i would love to have my children 24/7 not only for 1 weekend in every three as is presently the case.
I coudn't have been more shocked when i received a letter demanding £239 per week. i told them that i couldn't pay that much and looked for leniency but received none, they said i had avoided paying. I told them that I had initiated Applying to the CSA and the Woman i spoke to actually said "More Fool You"...
As was said in your programme i too could never speak to the same person twice, infact i spoke to the csa in newcatle, doncaster and scotland all in the same week!!! in adition to dealing with this through my soliciter I was so frustrated that i wrote to my local MP David Davis who also wrote on my behalf and has champoned my cause in the house of commons. The csa said that they are now taking me to court and i have been told that they are going to make an example of me because i had involved my MP.
Did you know that the CSA do not take the absentee parents Mortgage, utility bills or sustainence bills into consideration?
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I totally agree with 'bluenosetel'.My circumstances are very similar.My ex has been married to her husband for over five years and have 2 children together.my daughter is 10 and I havent been allowed any form of contact for over 3 years.I went to the courts and spend in excess of £17,000 on court orders which my ex never adhered to.I had to go back to court to address the issues of her failure to allow me contact but to no avail,but more expense.The csa have been involved for over 9 years now and apart from the obvious heartache caused to me and my parents because of the family courts failings,i have become in debt.I have to pay £136 per week for my daughter,even though my ex is married to a professional footballer who earns thousands every week.
I dont disagree with maintenance but where is the fairness? I only take home £2000 a month and have about £100 to live on every month once my bills etc are paid.I have contacted my ex numerous times and have stated i will give her £80 weekly so that i can have a life and maybe have a family before i hit 40 but she insists on the csa.Im sick of an agency having an involvement in my life.its nearly ruined me! where is the fairness,the emotional problem is bad enough but paying over the odds is depriving me a second chance of meeting someone and having a family or some sort of a life! i feel that i should be allowed to go to the new agency and say i can give an amount which is affordable to me and agree it in law and that they should take the mothers obstructive attitude to book.IT IS A WOMANS WORLD one rule for them one rule for dads who give a damn and who want to see their kids,this has gone on too long.I am a professional person (police officer) but am made to feel a criminal.)!!!!!I went to the daily mail in 2003 and they did a story on my plight.i hope and pray the law changes!
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Last tip for anyone struggling with the idiots! Organisation called NACSA will give both parents advice and guidance on complex cases and will even on occasion directly handle your case. Costs £30 per year- only reason I kept my sanity
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2 years I've been fighting to get maintenance for my daughter. And if you think its difficult for 'normal' civilians, you should try getting the MOD involved. My ex is an Officer in the RAF, has a lavish lifestyle - and, in fairness a new family. Two years ago he decided that the CSA was going to disappear so he would stop paying. He was already in arrears by £4K and is now in arrears of nearly £12K. After a few months of messing about (the CSA not me) I got in touch with my MP, ICE and anyone who might listen - including my ex's Station Commander. After 6 months the case was passed to an external debt collector. This was after the MOD couldn't find my ex on their payroll, and the CSA failed to make any headway, because he refused to answer their letters.
After a further 10 months the external debt collectors IQCOR managed to get £75 a month out of him. This was in the week that he sold his house for a profit of £250K (OK he had to buy another one, which he did, he was having one built) I managed to find all this out - how did they fail to?
I had to prove his new address by sending a recorded delivery letter and getting electronic proof of his signature to prove he lived there - why could the CSA not do this?
My MP got the MOD involved, apparently they veiw non-compliance 'dimly' but they did nothing. ICE chased for a while but said that the CSA had done everything correctly. My MP intervened, again, for the umpteenth time, I wrote another official complaint letter (my third or fourth).
Eventually, the Complaints Department got hold of my case, they are currently trying to withdraw it from the external debt collectors, who are dragging their heels, there is now a DER in place (Oh let me explain that one - most companies have to reply to a Deduction of Earning Order within a certain number of days - by the 19th of the following month - if they fail to do so they are fined - heavily. The MOD get a Deduction of Earnings REQUEST, which they can and do ignore, three of them to be precise - they don't get fined After the final request they finally paid up, 4 months after the request was made, and came up with four increasingly feeble excuses as to why they failed to comply). It still does not cover the maintenance payments my ex should be making and he is accruing further debt each month of just under £400. The CSA cannot make a claim on this until he finishes paying the £5,000 they assigned to the external debt collectors 18 months ago.
So my advice is get your MP involved, keep phoning and phoning and phoning. Make a real pain of yourself - politely. Most of the staff at the CSA are as fed up with the system within which they work. The left hand doesn't know what the right is doing, the CSA are not allowed to communicate directly with the External Debt collectors, you as the client, are not allowed to communicate directly with them either. It is only possible to communicate with them through some elite Department and only Team leaders are allowed to communicate with that department. The Debt collectors can refuse to answer questions should they see fit.
You spend your entire time going up blind alleys - blindly. I phoned every week for two years, sometimes two or three times a week. I got a direct phone line number and badgered that person.
I have read the 128 page white paper, I have read the manager's procedure manuals which are available on line. Nothing covers non-compliance by the MOD and their employees.
Hope this story helps ... I still haven't reached a sensible solution but I'm nearly there.
And for those that argue that it always talks about fathers, when I was working I paid for my son who still lives with his father (though he has been sent away to boarding school), through the CSA and only ever got into arears within the first months that the case was being set up, and I paid up, not happily because of the huge disparatiy between our wages, but I did.
Good luck whichever side of the fence you're on.
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I would just like to remind those who would like the CSA staff 'shot' or 'blown up' that the majority of us are just trying to do a job, to keep our own children in some cases. It's the system they need to blame, not the poor staff. Assessments are made on rules we have to follow on a system we didn't create. I have abused and threatened on the phone, and although I often sympathise with the person I am talking to (parents with care AND non resident parents) but I am tied by the rules I have to follow. We can't (sadly in some cases) make decisions outside of the guidelines we are given. The staff didn't make the rules and most of us do sympathise with the people we deal with, on both sides of the coin. It is impossible to make this system fair.
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p.s.
I would also like to add that my ex has denied me contact with my son since he was 8 years old - he is now 16.
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Having being divorced from my ex wife. Looking after my 2 kids alone foe 18 months, and continuing to look after my son when my daughter went to live with her mother, I was left with a mountain of debt (£40,000) that I agreed to take on instead of paying maintainance. 7 years down the line, ande after starting a new life I received a call from the CSA out of the blue telling me that my ex had decided to change her mind and file for maintainance. Apparently, any agreements made are null and void and my current life is going to have to now suffer to the tune of £280 every 4 weeks because my ex has had a change of mind. The whole system is farcicle and does not consider any previous agreements, or personal circumstances. I believe that estranged parents should be responsible for their offspring, but it proved beyond doubt that the CSA have no grasp of reality or fairness.
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I am amazed how one sided your report was on the CSA, I have been a victim of their incompetence’s since probably day one, and cost me dearly. This is merely a re-branding of the same old….! Only today I have written to my MP out of despair. In 1999 I was sent an arrears for £16,000 after paying direct payments to my ex-wife, after writing to the then Prime Minister Mr Blair's office and his intervention it was reduced by half, no reason given. A detachment of earnings was placed on me, which I reluctantly paid. Once the so-called arrears were down to reasonable amount in 2004 I approached the CSA with an offer in view of taking out a bank loan this was rejected. Then the Half taken off was put back ON, making any bank loan prohibitive. After taking legal advice I reluctantly carried on paying through direct debit monthly, just this month October 2008 I made an offer to the CSA to make a full and final settlement in view of a pending reduction in my earnings. It was Accepted by their account dept. and I was advised to cancel my direct debit at the risk of prejudicing my offer by the accounts manager, only to be harassed this week by their Debt enforcement department with threats and heavy handedness to recover the whole amount by the end of October…..! Where do I turn…..?
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Every bloke who has been in a situation with the CSA will know the feeling of desperation.
When your ex (who ran off with someone else) turns up in a brand new car after just arriving back from there time share. She picks up your child who you have taken out for the weekend on the £20 you have left after paying maintenance, or is it paying for there new car. You ask if you could have a bit of money to pay towards your weekend, but in the back of your mind you are scared to ask as she might decide to stop you seeing your child as she knows that the CSA and legal system are on her side.
You feel sick as a pig and think why should I bother working or trying to be a good father
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Okay where do I start, we run two websites regarding the CSA and C-Mec.
www.afairercsaforall.co.uk and
www.afairercsaforall.myfanforum.org
I want to tell you we deal with all sides of the CSA for the PWC, NRP and children.
The CSA are the most incompetent dept ever introduced in this country. We are dealing with severe and real poverty for both mums and dads, and hundreds of thousands of children daily, caused by the CSA.
We have in the last week dealt with suicide threats, repossessions and committals to prisons C-mec is no better, just a shiny new name plate.
The CSA cause untold problems for everybody who has the misfortune of dealing with them
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As iainkirk writes its all window dressing. i work for the CSA and got pursued for maintence myself. As i work for them they automatically took maintence from wages without telling me within 3 weeks of my ex applying. I queried this as the amounts taken was double what i should have been paying and they took her word over mine over the no. of days i have the kids each week. Wouldnt listen to me to look at the figures again so ended up taking them to tribunal at a cost of £6000 to them and won. As with the CSA the CMEC will only chase those parents who they can get money off because of targets. If they have difficulty in getting maintence they have no chance of meeting the target for that case so will not chase those parents. CMEC will be the same, same staff but new name. All they seam to do is chase those parents who re willing to pay.
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I have recently made a claim to the Csa with regards to my Son's maintenance payments. My ex partner informed them I was in reciept of benefit (which I am not as I work partime and I am married!) They have recieved payments from my ex but have been paying the money back to the government!!! when I contested this and where they got their information from?? they have told me it has now been sent to the TECHNICALLY STUCK TEAM!!!! And they are not sure of whether I will get any of my money back. I am absolutely disgusted with the way they deal with situations and the way they mess around with peoples lives!!! If I had known how incompetant they are I would never have contacted them in the first place!!!
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Me again! Having gone back and read lots of other comments, it all seems to follow a pattern. All the mothers writing in are complaining about not getting any money and 'grassing' up their ex-husbands regarding working and housing issues and all the fathers are writing in saying they haven't 'left' their children they just no longer live with them but are being shafted financially. I am married to a man who has two children who he did not want to leave at all, but his ex-wife is the devil in a dress! He pays religiously on time every month without fail and still she wants more. He pays 20% of his salary and has since got a new job to better himself. Obviously her maintenance has gone up now (more than double). She bled him dry through the divorce, has a massive house with no mortgage, tried to poison the children against him by saying he'd left her penniless (then promptly went out and bought them laptops and had a new conservatory built!). I feel for the children who are stuck in the middle of all this. They have to do separate Christmas and birthday lists because the parents don't speak to each other at all. His ex-wife claims lots in tax credit and other benefits and actually has a lot more money than we do. We have a huge mortgage and receive no benefits. The only thing we receive are nasty little notes telling him what a rubbish father he is. Luckily the children know this is not true, but how unfair for them to have to listen to constant father bashing. Please ladies remember that not all fathers are pigs and they have to live too, but don't let this become a revenge for your broken relationship. Children can still go to university, they just have to get loans like everyone else. Don't blame the fathers all the time. If you're income is so low, get a better paid job and work for your money the same as everyone else instead of saying you deserve the maintenance. They are your children too and you should have to pay for them as well!
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I suppose the million dollar question is how much does it take to bring up a child!! When I split from my ex my son stayed with me so I know what it was costing me to support him and that was without any help from the mother. now that my son has moved back with his mother, I have to pay more than it was previously costing me to keep my son!!!
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Me again! I would like to add that the comment in my last post should say 'been abused'.
Also, I have in more than one case kept dealing with the same client. Until the case had to be passed to a different section because the NRP's circumstances had changed. Again, not a choice of the staff, but the way the system is designed.
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Thanks for that 'Firstblogger' you are very kind
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Could you feature contact orders and Cafcass on your programme as they are also totally inefficient!!
My ex did not let me see my kids despite a contact order in place.He has gradually alienated my son away from me.The Cafcass do not believe me and want to remove all contact orders. Its very likely that the CSA will make me pay more which will cripple me and I probably won't see my kids at all.They are linked, ie family courts and csa, but when you go to court for Contact issues, you are not allowed to mention csa . Why not solve both problems at the same time and save court money and time!!
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There is also another side to the arrears story; I have been incorrectly assessed for the last six years! The agency say that I have never informed them of my changes in circumstances with reference to my second marriage, apparently I never informed them of our child being born and our mortgage payments(old rules). Even now with documented evidence and a written statment from my wife at the time statig that we did inform them, they will not look at re assesing the apparent £9000 arrears.
I have no problem paying for my children and will continue to do so, unfortunately though if they persue these arrears and take upto 40% of my wages, the twice monthly occasions that I travel 340 miles to see my children will stop. Ths will not benefit my children and additionally I may have to quit my job and depend on the state!
This has been ongoing with a huge list of errors for years, I even have a copy of the agencies debt enforcment officer internal email branding me as someone who just does not want to pay! Infact all I have requested is a fair assesment with the major facts being taken into consideratiion........HELP!!
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After a child has been born many couples go through some anxiety, especially when the pregnancy is in the early years of a relationship.
If a "separation" occurs animosity is bread by the CSA trying to claim unfair amounts from the parents.
My ex-husband and I did split in my baby's early years. I wrote to ask the CSA to not seek money from my babies father and rather accept the reasonable agreement which we had amicably come to. It took ages for them to accept this, but eventually they did.
As a result my husband and I came to a reconcilliation after a few months and were able to continue to share the experience of parenting for a further eleven years!!
Had the CSA continued with their bullying tactics my husband may may have missed out on some very precious years with our child!!
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the csa are liars cheats and they overpayed my x by over £4000 in turn they never informed me of this my x she refused t pay it back the csa inturn added this ammount to my bill of £2500 and are trying to recover
£6755 through the courts heres the biggest
part of the mess they also gave £4000 to my bankruptcy accountant as the overpayment should have been returned to
me as this money is exemp from this law
the csa gave away £8000 by their own free will (incompetencies) and are still trying to get this money from me now have got more
sherrifs after me than robin hood
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I fought for years to get the csa to take money from my ex husbands wages, his other ex wife is on benefits so was not bothered as her council gave it her regardless now i find out the reason i dont get any money yet is because essex council want there back pay and are taking my money the csa say they can not help as he owes to much to essex coucil and while this happens i get no help as i work and my 7 year old gets no money from the csa it makes me mad i fight and they get my daughters money my ex will not pay anything any other way so that was the only rroute i could take
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I take small consolation to see that I'm not the only non-resident parent who is suffering as a result of the disparity between the two sets of assessment rules for cases pre-2003 and post-2003. I am currently assessed at £570.00 per month on the old rules. Under the new rules I would be paying £200.00 less. I am an honest non-resident father who has always paid; all I am doing is lining the pockets of my ex-wife and her new (full-time working)husband who are able to run two cars, to take very nice holidays and to refurbish their house. My kids are in their teens but my ex has been able to afford to stay at home bringing up her new child by her new husband...a child whose existence she lied about to the CSA. In the meantime I have had to cope with two redundancies in the last two years and have had to borrow money from my family to get by. Given her dishonesty I asked the CSA to investigate her circumstances further but as you would expect I have heard nothing and I am not holding my breath. Having virtually cleaned me out at divorce, now receiving a whopping £570.00 per month Child Maintenance and no prospect of my migrating to the new rules she is laughing all the way to the bank. Is there anyone one out there who can help an honest father?
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cafcas-what a joke i was made to feel like a criminal and wasnt even given the opportunity for them to see me with my daughter,even though they visited my ex mansion with her and her husband.i feel like i am a winger but these problems consume your life.I am obviously not alone and the problems are rife.I have considered resigning and going on the dole but why should i i love my job and want to be a dad to my gorgeous daughter.
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I'm amazed that the One Show made the same old mistake of assuming that all lone parents are female but still... In terms of the CSA, I have absolutely no complaints. They dealt with my case speedily, did an attachment to earnings on my son's mother because they didn't expect her to pay without, kept me informed and have sent regular updates on what I can expect. I was also able to deal with the same person during the early stages of the claim.
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i totally agree with marty2 and almost everyone. yes its easy targets with no problems to keep your job and meet your own targte set by the csa while working for them,thats how it works.
if you want make a complaint you must put it in writting, did you also know that you can request you file under the data protection act, not that you could make any sense out of it, but its worth a read. its taken me over 2 years of studying my case papers along with the help of a solicitor and appearing on tv and in the papers but i do begin to feel i MAY get a payout of what should have been mine while my kids were small
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To earthcsaha you can apply for a departure and claim back some or all of your travel costs to see your children. I know that's not the answer but I was in the same boat, and had to travel over 400 miles and stay overnight to see my mine but my ex-husband would never allow me contact so the departure was never enforced/used.
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I am a father who has been to hell and back due to the unfair, crap system in this country! Not only have i been totally tortured by the courts the CSA or whoever governs them "THE LABOUR GOVERMENT" have kicked me while i am down.
I have two gorgeous children whom i love dearly. In short my Ex-wife has now decided to move away which is a round trip of one hour and although i am lucky that she hasn't moved further away like some other poor fathers out there have to endure! it broke my heart nun the less as i had no choice in the matter, not only that, she decided to move them out of the School they were in to re-locate them to a school near where she lived. To make things easy for her, not for me or the children! In other words to make it as impossible to have the best relationship i can with them. I had them every Tuesday night, Thursday night and every other weekend. However now that she has moved away it is too far for the children to have them over night for school reasons and for me getting to work. I'm totally gutted that i can now no longer take them to school and feel like my children are drifting away, this as you can imagine, kills me. I LOVE THEM and want them to know me!! The CSA have recently called me to remind me that i no longer have them on those nights “As if i didn't already bloody know!!" and guess what! For the privilege of not having them! i have to pay extra!! So let me put this in easy terms! I have less time with my children whom i love and i have to pay for that!! Where’s the Justice in that!!! Love to know your feelings!!
Love a very, very un happy DAD
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I too ended up owing arrears to the CSA, as the money taken from my pay hadn't been paid by my previous employer, who then went bust, leaving me liable (Long, long story). Anyway, I came to an agreement to pay the arrears but was overcharged.
It has so far taken a year to try and get back the money they owe me and the employees I have spoken to all admit that if it was me owing them money, I would have been dragged through the courts and the money extracted from me by now!
They're an absolute shower!!!!
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I'd just like to highlight the father's side-my son's marriage broke up through no fault of his own. He has two small children. He was up-front from the start about wanting to support them but the CSA took so much off him and he got so much into debt that he ended up trying to take his own life and was under a counsellor and crisis team for 9 months. When I contacted the CSA and said they were not leaving him enough to live on the only comment I got was 'Tough, he'll just have to find the money, won't he'. His wife now lives in a lovely 3-bed house and runs a fairly new car. My son has to pay for one room in someone else's house and has my old car which was pretty clapped out when I gave it to him. Because his kids are so young, he will be well into his 50s before he can afford a place on his own. No wonder father's are so reluctant to come forward if this is the treatment they can expect!
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In response to Wilddragon9 comments, what feedback do you give to your employers, and why do you have to be so insensitive when agrieved parents try to talk to the CSA. Most estranged parents do actually want to support their kids but the system causes so much grief. I am currently on the verge of bankruptcy, mainly due to the debt my ex wife and I accrued when we were married. I thought I had 'done my bit' by agreeing to take on the debt as part of the divorce settlement as long as my ex didn't ask for maintainance. What a waste of time that was!!!
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ME AGAIN ,IM ON A ROLE .On one hand you feel like giving up and saying my child will come knocking on the door and i'll be ready when she does.(with eveidence over the years of wanting to see her etc)but then every week of paying csa makes you more angry but you dont have the finances to go to court and even if you did it would be a waste of time.
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Fluffycake30, I agree, the "new" system needs to come in sooner rather than later. Although we are on opposite ends of the payment scenario, it seems we would both feel better about things and hopefully be better off financially.
I wait as I have done for 5 years!!!!
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One other Comment......! After reading the Blogs..... where does the money go? Other than Taxi fares for the cheif exec...?
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My grandchild was diagnosed with cancer three years ago and as a consequence my son-in-law decided he could not cope and left my daughter. He has just reduced his payments, made through the CSA from £10 per week to £5 per week claiming that his earnings have dropped. However, his earnings were sufficient to take my grandson for a hot air balloon ride. We know he is earning more than he claims to be from his behaviour before he left the marriage. He deals in cash as much as possible which is harder to trace and has gone self employed. The CSA say they cannot assess his income because he has not yet completed a year and therefore cannot supply a set of accounts. What does £5 a week buy for a growing child?
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The Csa are a joke my wife and i seperated 8 years ago i had a great job and i told her if we ever Break up i will take care of my son what did do went to the Clowns next thing i know i m being Chased for Maintence as i was paying 50 pounds a week at that time was a third of my take home pay i was then assessed and told to pay 78 and was told to survive on 120 after 45 pounds for Rent 20 for Council tax i was left at income support allowance i ask anyone working in a job to try and pay everything i e Gas Electricity food clothes etc despite appeals maintenence was increased after 3 years i tried to end my life my Partner at the time found me we no longer speak and this was caused by Idiots who can remain anonomyous i will never Forgive or Forget and i hope these people have a terrible times from now till they re end as i would Dance on thier Grave
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once again www.afairercsaforall.co.uk.
Unless we get a voice, pwc's and nrp's, nothing will change, stand up and be counted. It,s a site for all of us shafted by the system. E.g c-mec can take money from a joint bank account! They can impose a curfew. take your passport, driving licence and force you to sell your house. They will also have the power to issue a liability order without going to court!!! We have to stop this
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Hi to FIRSTBLOGGER i do understand were you are comming from my ex husband has never had his children to stay at his home for 5 years as he keeps moving to a bigger and better house his new wife only drinks champagne when she goes out wine bars she shouts and screams at the CSA when they phone the home they think that because i am remarried my new husband is now my 3 childrens father and he is responsible for ther up keep they go abraod twice a year and they pay for her children to go to uni what about my kids
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Based on our experience, the CSA had to change as it completely failed to provide any support or help. When my wife and her ex husband split 12 years ago, they agreed a court order for maintenance payments for the 3 children. Over the following few years, the payments became less and less regular. When my wife and I became a couple 7 years ago and subsequently married, payments stopped completely.
We consulted a solicitor who advised us to talk to the CSA who in turn advised us that as a court order already existed, they would not intervene and we were told that we would have to reapply to the court for an enforcement order.
We already knew that the children's father had "restructured" his finances so that he has no bank accounts or assets in his own name, so our solicitor advised us that in all likelihood, we would end up paying them in excess of £10,000 in legal fees to get an enforcement porder that would never actually be enforced.
The CSA was always positioned as the solution to the problem of absentee parents not supporting their children financially. Our experience showed a complete lack of interest or ability to deliver on the original promise.
A complete and utter waste of time and tax payer's money.
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Anyone havng problems please join us.
are trying to force change, for ALL parents
www.afairercsaforall.co.uk, join up and have a chat in our forum
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Please, does anyone have advice for me? Have read all the comments written tonight. However, non of them refer to my situation! I have a 5 year old and a 2 year old. My ex and I split up when I was pregnant with my youngest. He has been with his new partner for 2 years, she has just got divorced and has millions, huge house,great cars etc etc. 4 months ago my ex went bankrupt, quit his job, and stopped paying maintenance. However, has moved in with her, is driving round in a brand new sports car and living the life of reilly (sp?) eg, holidays abroad,expensive clothes etc etc. He is taking me to court as he wants the boys every weekend (he has them every other wknd at the mo). BUT IS NOT PAYING ME A SINGLE PENNY TO HELP SUPPORT THEM FINANCIALLY!!!! Don't know where I stand or what to do. I am seriously struggling for money at the moment.
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I massively disagree with the comments further up regarding the agency benefits women only! As I said before I get nothing, not a penny because they dont make him pay me.
Its all in his favour that he stays self employed with 5 different cars and motorbikes,holidays to America and France.
As an abandoned single mother of 2 I can assure you they do not favour me over him! The exact opposite is evident when my children and I wear 2nd hand clothes and live off hand outs and my ex and the woman he left for live the life of luxury.
It just doesnt work full stop.
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Come on One Show, let's have a feature on the disparity between the old system and new one and feature a fewabsent parents who have been screwed but still love and look after their kids, because after all, that's what it's about isn't it?
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"WHOCARESABOUTTHE FATHERS"
i feel for you,
every father or mother that has problems seeing there children,
how ever much money we pay and how we pay,
i had to wait 15 years untill i had real contact with my daughter,i tried to see her more often but the ex made it hard,
i pay for her phone and we speak every other day,my ex will take her phone off her my daughter if she is difficult,a way to get between us.
some one needs to see that the money issues with these people are coming between the love of parents and children.........
the children will come to us,
my daughter is 16 1/2.
she knows what her mother has done in the past,
kids are not dumb,they remember!!!!
i just dont understand this country any more!!!!
£ does not equal happiness........
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Reply to Aries60
As i said previously, i had similar problems seams like all blokes are going through smae issues but the CSA always takes the mothers word over farthers. Only thing i can suggest is write to your MP, write to Cheif exec, and complain to CSA. Should you have no joy they have a complaints commisionar, who normally finds CSA at fault in 90% of cases brought to their attention, however you have to show that you have tried to resolve any issues directly with CSA first. They have to reply to within 10 days of contact. Iwork for CSA and i still ended up going through all this and tribunal and won. Even got call from cheif exec office appologises. sorry to say i still work their but having been though it , i understand how hard done farthers are.
do what i said above and ring them every 7 days, and take a name. They have to give you their name. This way they will get fed up and will look at your case instead of putting it to the back of the pile everytime.
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I hope there is an improvement to this disorganised system, as at the moment i am owed over £3000 in overpayments i have had automatically had taken out over the past 5 years, which has only come to light as payments have stopped to my ealdest son
i have been informed that they are trying to sort out repaying me this in full but at this time can only give me £150
This goes to show that it is not always the parent with custody that suffers
Good ridance to the CSA, hopefully they will have a good clearout of all the dead wood that claim to work there
Rich
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i applied for a dna test to be carried out 5yrs ago i was informed that would have to pay the going rate which was approx £800
so that was the end of that 4yrs ago i reapplied as i was on the benefits merrygoround my partner agreed to this
it took until march this year 03/08 to get the goahead from legalaid great well what did my x do next "refused to the test"
do the math i have payed well over Fifty thousand pounds so far and there is no actual proof that i am the genetic father
the csa are convinced that ink on paper is the absolute proof so a word of advice
wantobe fathers dont sighn the birth certificate until you do the dna thing
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My former wife did not declare her full income whilst fraudulently claiming a 'prescribed benefit' back in '98. She has also received undeclared 'cash-in-hand' payments over this period and deliberately only declared one job when in fact she had three! This has subsequently led to 10 years of prejudicial and erroneous maintenance calculations against me (which the CSA have finally recognised, but refuse to tackle at source by taking action against their applicant). Instead, it insists on threatening me with numerous Liability Orders, Bailiff Action and even imprisonment! They claim I owe over £20K, when the true quantum is more like £10K, plus what should be a criminal record against my ex-wife for deliberately falsifying her income stream whilst in receipt of benefit and defauding the taxpayer.
I have continued to support my three children (now all adults) to the tune of approx £18K during this time (despite losing contact with them for 5 years), and am still being threatened with legal action by an organisation that cannot even verify the correct maintenance assessment figure. The CSA is a joke and unfit for purpose!
So the new organisation is going to 'broker' settlements between the two parties eh? It has not got a hope in hell! The only way to sort these matters out fairly is to make each party DECLARE THEIR INCOME via the Inland Revenue. Then there's no dispute and any benefit cheats can be caught and dealt with.
Thankfully, I am now back in contact with each of my children and have a fantastic relationship with them. They are now old enough to understand the situation and can see the obscene fecklessness of the CSA's lack of leadership and accountability for themselves. Unfortunately, they have also had to come to understand their mother for what she is and what she has put them through.
My battle with the CSA goes on whatever their new name is!
Mike
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Me again, New title--- same staff same rubbish computer system, same old story!!!
Nothing will change, the csa could take passports/ driving licence or put you in prison, but in reallity how many people did this actually happen to.
By the way I do have sympathy with all the nrps that really do mean well and go though hell because of this crap goverment shambles, well really what do they do right!!!
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We had interference of the CSA, together with the Benefits Agency. Before we were married, my wife and son did not live with me but because she was on benefits, the BA told her that if she didn't sign the forms confirming me as the father and make a claim, that she would lose her benefit. We were at the time amicable and had a support arrangement which the BA knew all about and reduced her benefit accordingly anyway so why they had to pursue me I don't know. As a man who wanted to be a father to my son, it was painful for me to be made to feel like a 'criminal' almost when in fact I was already providing and caring for my son. I looked into this loss of benefits. It turned out that if she had not authorised the claim, they could have at their discretion reduced her benefits by a maximum of £10 under the reduced benefit directive.
I have found that with the BA, they will generally let you know exactly what you are not entitled to and not entitled to do yet they do not go out of their way to advise the average person of what they are entitled to and are entitled to do.
The CSA were even worse. They sent me a letter which I can only describe as an intimidating 'timebomb' to which I must respond before a certain date or they would charge me even more. Phone calls I had with them went along the lines of we know this about you, its true isn't it? In fact they knew little and were asking me questions in this way in an attempt to get me to reveal details of my income to confirm things they had surmised about me. It was like being interrogated at times.
As I had read up about the CSA and seen some of the havoc it had caused, I decided to arm myself with some information. If you are ever unfortunate enough to be scrutinised by the CSA, you are entitled to request that they send you a copy of all information they hold about you. They sent me about 40 sheets of fanfold and about 40 sheets of A4. Most of the questions on the sheets had no answers next to them. Basically, after making out they knew all manner of details about me and my personal circumstances, it transpired that they knew my name, address and phone number and that was about it.
Also, the CSA collects information for Child Maintenance, War pensions and Vaccine Damage Victims. Does this mean that they use the funds extracted for these three purposes as well. Clearly, most understand that if an absent father pays £X to the CSA, that money won't necessarily find its way to their child, it will be put in a pot and may end up supporting others children. Their children may only see a small portion of that. As I understand it, that's how it was in 2001.
Fortunately for us, she and my son came to live with me. She came off benefits and since then, we married 5 years ago and now have 3 sons. Possibly, the CSA was instrumental in actually bringing my family together. At least this way they didn't get their hands on our hard earned money. If things had have been different and not worked out so favourably for us, it would have seriously made me consider giving up my career and going onto benefits, certainly, if I had been forced to pay over most of my disposable income to the CSA, I'd have made sure that I had none and lived off the state.
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i am a mother of 2 struggling to make end meets like every1 else. my partner has 2 other children and always supported the mothers now they got csa involved they are ridiculous they dont take into account any of our bills not even the mortgage we pay to put a roof over r childrens head. its ridiculous how they say a standard payment for all! we hav to pay for the children not living with us which is fare but not to the cost of the children we do hav they are allowed next to nothing and thats not fair 10% and the 1s not here 40% these figures i am sure are just magiced out of thin air. we all know that is not the case i hav family members who hav grown children and still fighting for thir arears something has to be dun where all cases are looked at individually and made to help both sides the system need to think again!
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The lady on the programme who said that the CSA was biased toward the mother as they don't take into account BOTH parents circumstances hit the nail bang on the head. There are two sides to every story and these (on the whole) should be taken into account. If this had happened in our case, chances are we wouldn't have lost our home through astronomical payments,(we were assessed on the old system & refused the new as the 'computer system couldn't handle it') and our children would still be with their original friends.
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I have been 'working with'the CSA for almost 2 years now in an attempt to obtain some maintenance from my ex partner. The difficulties have been twofold - I never get to speak to the same person and my case has even been moved between different departments around the country and the 2nd problem is my ex partner, he constantly feeds them inaccurate information, which they have to 'investigate' before making a payment order, but as soon as they do this, he changes his story. He has now even changed his employment status to 'self-employed' to prevent them enforcing a direct payment order from his salary. I'll watch with interest if this new agency can fair any better but I shan't hold my breath!
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read all about it this is the ultimate stiky blogg this is my last blogg although i have
suffered many injstices at th handsof the csa they will never take my freedom and we await the seasonal rise in the suicide rates as the new enforcement agency kicks in my fellow comrades dont despair and dont do it
life is beautiful under the radar there is always dreams to paint on the velvet sky when they point the fingre at you we dont believe you know its good to be free in our minds there is no time
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The CSA are destroying lives on a daily basis and it simply can not go on. The CSA is an unjust, unfair, incompetent and totally immoral system that puts Government targets before the lives of innocent children.
They are indirectly responsible for countless breakdowns and suicides that could be avoided if a fairer system was put in place. In fact they are nothing more than murderers as they know exactly what they are doing!
Brought in to save the Treasury money by a Government that also gave us the Poll Tax. That was not accepted and because of public revolt it was abolished. Think of it this way, if the CSA affected as many people as the Poll Tax did, do you honestly think it would be in place now? I don't think so!!!
The Poll Tax affected the poor and not so well off. It was wrong, unfair and a joke and people didn't stand for it! The Child Support Agency is far worse, by far. It is putting children in poverty and it is denying them in some cases of thier Dads. It is not only destroying lives but it is also taking lives. All for the Treasury to save money!!
Don't stand for it and please become actively involved in bringing about change. Don't let them continue to destroy lives. Please visit www.afairercsaforall.co.uk and help us put an end to this unjustice!
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The CSA is a Government tool set up to strip absent fathers of their assets, to fill the Treasury coffers. Anyone who tells you that it was set up to help children is deluded.
Why doesn't the CSA spend some time, expend some effort and earn it's money, trying to locate the absent parents who don't pay, instead of wasting tax payers money hounding those who do? Not fit for purpose? Dead right. A national scandal.
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My husband had a 1 month relationship with a woman in 1990 and she fell pregnant but wanted no contact with my husband. As a result, we have paid thousands of pounds over the past 15yrs to a child we have never met. He is now in fulltime employment but the CSA are demanding a further £10000 in arrears (built up through appalling CSA Admin errors and, admittedly, incorrect payments by myself on occassion).
The CSA have demanded this payment by April next year stating that the Govt are forcing them to retrieve all arrears to "make there statistics look better".
It means that they are taking almost half my pay through deductions of earnings.
They do not return calls and refuse to negotiate a lesser amount.
We are not refusing to pay, we just want a more manageable amount to prevent yet more debt within this current financial climate.
Like many parents, we contacted NACSA who confirm that the deadline of next April has affected a high number of people and CSA practices are bordering on illegal but the courts can't touch the agency.
Please don't treat all absent fathers the same...a lot of people are in horrendous debt trying to keep up maintenance payments and the CSA have destroyed a lot of relationships with their refusal to negotiate reasonable payments...sorry to rant but I have just been speaking to the CSA and am still upset at how I was treated....can you believe that when I asked for a breakdown of the arrears to try and pay back by remortgaging, they told me they have a backlog and I will have to wait 6mths for the breakdown and continue to pay over 40% of my husbands earnings!!
PS...from 15yrs of CSA experience, this new system will not erase their backlog, arrears or appalling admin processes. I have many friends who work at the agency and they have all said the same thing
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i just no how u feel comment 176 i feel that if this continues me and my partner wil be forced to loose our house becos we hav no extra income after the csa take wot they want sum1 has to do something my partner is nearly close to a breakdown they never ring him bk and wen he does get thro they just fob him off it's sad that they force any parent to desperate measures my children shud not hav to suffer
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Everyone seems so concerned over the "parents with care" that are not recieveing the money they are due, whilst I understand this is important it is amazing how people forget about the families they ruin by penalising the fathers who do pay! Why should my new family suffer because the CSA can't make sensible assesments! I have enough correspondence to take legal action against the CSA for the incompetence they have shown and the personal infomation they have shared with others that should not have recieved my mail, add the fact they chased me for 4 years of payments totaling almost £10'000 for my son who has always lived with me! I currently have three cases open for one child! They have threatened to take me to court for failing to pay the £0 balance on one of the accounts!!! The sooner someone simplifies this and put's in some sensible and fair assesments the better. What a complete balls up!!!
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To you that think saying you are going to kill yourselfs as this is the only way out. how do you think us mothers feel not all the time but most of the time.We are the only ones there for our children 24 hours a day not just when you feel like you want a 3 hour visit . What is most sad is all these adulst fighting the children are the ones to suffer day in day in out .
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I pay my child maintenance directly to my sons mother I have always paid the 15% of my wages the csa informed me I should pay. I’ve had numerous letters saying that I am not paying and I’m in arrears. I received two letters one day one said that I missed a payment and they were going to deduct from my wages the weeks amount and the other said id receive a cheque in the post within the next 10 days and I had paid a week too much. Another letter today and they want me to pay more money. As far as I am concerned the csa is a joke I am willing to pay for my son so why bother getting involved giving me sleepless nights and headaches making me ill. My son will be 4 next month and I only get to see him 5 and a half hours a fortnight shouldn’t there be a free agency to help dads like me with no parental agreement in place . I have no say in the welfare of my son , she has even changed his last name to hers.
Michael Rawson , aberdeenshire
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Why do these debates always target the men as "absent fathers" I am married to a fantastic guy who was married before with one child - his wife left him and he has never refused to pay. He has been consistently hounded for 8 years by the CSA at times paying over £500 per month because of his earnings, working away from home 6 days a week. Because of this now he does not earn as much or work as much which ultimately affects our lifestyle, however we owe thousands in back pay caused by the CSA not getting in touch for over a year. We have been instructed to pay this back over the next 2 years. This is currently being paid by a family member as we can not afford to pay it. We have just had our own child and I have had to return to work just short of my own childs 1st birthday. His ex-wife has not worked for 9 years - claiming benefit in a council house How can this be fair? I have been told by the CSA that I should work more to earn more in order to support him to pay his CSA! I love our step-child very much whom we see every weekend and have never let or will let the CSA trauma affect our relationship as a family however I do feel let down by the government as an owner occupier and employee who has never cost society a penny and who is now struggling to work to support my own child. I do understand that their are some single mums/dads out there who are trying to work to support thier children and some who find they have no alternative than to be on benefit but surely there should be some responsibility on both parents to support thier children and this should be more equally monitored.
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the csa are an absolute waste of time in a lot of cases, i paid to the csa for my son who is now 21 i stopped paying for him at 19 and it was all taken straight from my wages (no problem) you should pay for your kids. however i was made redundant after 25yrs and got a measly payout because the firm went bust, i was unemployed for a while then managed to get myself a part time job i recieved a letter from the csa telling me i had to pay maintenance for my daughter and that they would be accessing me ,after a while i recieved a letter from them telling me i did not have to make any payments because i did not earn enough money, then a few months down the line i recieved a phone call saying i owed £500 in arrears and i had to pay this money they assesed me again and agreed i pay £20 a month i then recieved a phone call from a women from the csa saying that the £20 i was paying was not enough and that it would take years to pay off this £500 and that i would have to pay £100 a month i explained that they had assesed me at what i had to pay but this women would not have any of it she said i could pay it off on my credit card that she had been checking in my bank account when i explained i did not use this credit card because i could not afford it and did not want get into debt she then said could your wife not pay it for me on her credit card i said no and she just said we will take£100 a month. i then went on the csa web site and reported this womens manner in which she spoke to me, a week later £100 was taken from my wage and then a few weeks after that i recieved a letter telling me £50 a month would be taken from my wage which is now the case ,i never was told why it had been changed to this amount it beggars believe what these people can do to peoples life i brought three step children up with my second wife and her ex husband never paid anything to her and owed £50,000 to her, but because he was self employed he did not declare his proper wages its these people they should be targeting not people who work legit but then again we are just easy targets.
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Five pounds a week towards bringing up teenagers is totally unrealistic.
Does anyone have a self-employed partner who pays more than five pounds? Or are they all claiming they have no disposable income?!
Why can't the other parent be made to pay say fifty pounds and then they would know what it is like to have to work full time to support their chldren and do without -just like many single mums and dads do!
When I think about how my ex is cheating his children by lying about his income, I remind myself that I have worked hard to make sure my children are happy and healthy and that is more important to me than anything.
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Having vented my spleen earlier (84) i have a bit of advice that helped me.
Keep accurate records of everything, time, day, date, who said what etc and follow anything you think might be important with a recorded delivery letter. Keep copies of all letters RD receipts and keep bank statements and cheque book stubs and any amounts deducted from your account. Don't discard anything ever -even when you think its all settled.
I know it's obvious but it's the only thing that saved me. When people asked I was able to prove everything.
Forget who is responsible for the breakup of the relationship and concentrate on dealing with the CSA. In other words don't get mad, get even! Probably the most important thing is NEVER give up, "If at first you don't suceed, try a different way!"
Good luck.......
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The CSA have done more harm to the welfare of our children than good, let's not forget that they are the most important thing and the pathetic incompetence of the CSA has distracted us all from what really matters, the love and support for everyones children no matter who they live with.
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If im off sick ill get 60 quid a week to pay EVERYTHING when im working I pay 70 quid a week to fund her holidays and shopping sprees . Fair ?? I think not !! Oh and she gets benefits. What do I get GRIEF from the bloody CSA.
Michael Rawson , Aberdeenshire
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The change may be good for me as the CSA havent helped my children get financial support from their Father for over 12 months.
I am a 'clerical' case and my ex-husdband has been 'traced' for as long as I can remember.
Despite tracking down his address and giving his NI number along wth his phone number-nothing has happened.
My case is now with the 'debt team' and has been for about 6 weeks now. He lodges in a house and has one bedroom to look after.
I financially and physically run a house for me and my 2 children, along with working full time as well as paying out for music lessons, school dinners, presents for parties they are going to, club activities, school uniforms, shoes, etc .... the list is endless and he pays NOTHING! and still gets away with it.
He has no one to support or look after other than himself.
There are lots of Dads out there who pay for their children and spend quality time with them - but no my childrens Father!
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If everyone just sits complaining nothing will change. We need to stop C-MEC or our children will pay the consequences. All non resident parents will be treat like criminals and parents with care will suffer the same couldn't care less atitude.
BBC please let us give you the real story, we see it everyday
www.afairercsaforall.co.uk
www.afairercsaforall.myfanforum.org
Please come along and help us help you
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unfortunately the people who actually do the work at the CSA/CMEC do not make the decisions in regards to policy. This decision is made by the great and the good within the government and as we all know the politicians in this country are so detached from reality they havent got a clue.
Under the "old rules" as they call them both parties income was taken in to consideration as a calcuation was done which was called the "Maintenance Requirement". This lead to a very complex system of calcuations which was supposedly simplfied with the introduction in 2003 of the "New Rules". The "New Rules" only involve the income of the "Non-Resident Parent" and do not include anything in regards to the "Parent With Care".
Unfortunately given the number of casesthat the computer systems have t deal with it is very easy for various problems to arise.
EG the CS2 ("New Rules") computer system was specified by consultants from the company that eventually won the contract to program and build the system. When this system was brught in to action in 2003 it promptly fell over in a number of cases. This the lead to the developement of a third system (the "Clerical Case System"). If you have a case on this third system then you do at least theoretically get a human being to look at your case on an individual basis and these people are quite happy to negotiate in regards to arrears payment but still have to collect any and all outstanding arrears within the confines of the Secretary of States instructions (i.e. all arrears to be collected in two years or Liability Orders to be persued through the court system). The staff at Stockport/ Cummnock/ Bolton do their best to ensure that every case is given individual care and attention.
I must admit that some caseworkers give cases moe attention than other but if you are fortunate enough to get a good caseworker your case may proceed faster than other cases.
My own experience of the CSA is that anything on either CSCS ("Old Rules") or CS2 ("New Rules") can go wrong and the few cases (relatively speaking) on the clerical system work much better than either system.
Either way it is very difficult to either get information or money out of somebody who does not want to provide. Personally I think that the Criminal Santions for failing to provide information are not invoked regularly enough aas the staff have to jump through so many hoops to get referals completed and dont always get the answers they want
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i have a two year old daughter whom i hardly see thanks to the csa, they have messed me about cost me my health and in one case my job. they always say its for the child well my ex earns 3 times what i do. she has another child whos father lives in a foreign country and has never chased him for it ??? my point in this is that i have been paying for my daughter for 2 years now and they still have the nerve to tell me i am arrears ??? how well !! i had lost my job in 2007 and had been on benefits and they had been taking £5 per week which i think is a bit poor for my daughter but it was there choice and then when i finally got a job in late 2007 they slapped me with arrears notice and i was earning 185 per week and they were taking 43 pound of that so that left me with 142 pounds to run a flat get to work pay council tax and eat ??? really so i had to give up my flat and move back to my parents and then i lost that job and was on benefits for a month and they never took anything ??? but when i got my new job which payes a bit more i thought great i can get a new flat or house and start my life again but no no no no they hit me again over 1000 pounds in arrears which they say i had not paid even though all my payslips and benefits forms had deductions on them apart that one month so as usual i had to pay and now two weeks ago i get a letter saying a new revised payemnt plan for arrears and currently they are going to take over 400 out of my wage for this month but i only earn 950 and i am supposed to have protected earnings of 650 that i have to take home but how can this be will i ever be out of arrears ???? why why why is it all about the mother when half the time they get triple plus benefits ???
typical CSA load of ****
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But bigphil, if the cs1 rules were changed due to being unfair and too complicated, then surely it's unfair that I have to pay so much more than I would on cs2 on cs1 cos of a computer cock up!!!!!!!!
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And by the way, it is not LAW to collect all arrears in 2 years, it is a directive, and the csa have to, legally, enter negotiations over repayment, although when has the law ever stopped them doing what they want?!
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nothing winds me up MORE tan the bunch of numpties who work at the CSA. They made so many mistakes with my case 14 in one error strewn assessment) that they sent me £50 as a stress payment.
I dvorced my wife not mykids and yes I had a private agreement but then she got greedy, I am stuck on the 1992 legislation and am paying over the odds, there is no other way to dress it up, THIS government decided to spend millions on a new computer system to work out something a 10 year old could with a calculator.
My ex then moved away from the area with her new partner, I was informed by the CSA that I had to much disposalable income to be allowed any allowances for travelling although my "Wonderful" ex would not assist in the travelling arrangements, she wanted to be awkward and try to force me out of my childs life by making it so expensive to see her. . well she failed.. I eventually moved and my mortgage went up and salary down, guess what, the CSA INCREASED my payments, what can I do.... NOTHING!!!
It stinks i pay and always have, I have no right of appeal... I want my day in court i want a reasonable person to assess my case.. because even though I have uprooted my life, I still get no allowance for actually having my daughter because i do not fit in with the 2 in 7 rules due to shifts...
Why am I stuck on the "old rules" when others are not.. who can and will answer my questions, why is no one "ACCOUNTABLE" if this were any other organisation there would be a public outcry...
I really dont care if you work for the CSA, you get paid to do a job, stop whinging on here, this is your mess,clear it up
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p.s I could go on.....
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Hi I hope the new agency will do two things.
Firstly that they will CONSIDER CIRCUMSTANCES before demanding money from an absent parent. e.g. The parent leaves the house, car and all family possesions to his wife who has forceably kept the children and refused him any paternal contact with the children. In this case the father had become homeless and heart broken at not seeing his children.
Secondly that the parent making the demands is MEANS TESTED.
e.g. a wife who is a solicitor and earning over £70,000 a year is demanding the maximum from her husband who is earning less than half her wage. He is also forced into borrowing money to fight for Contact with his children, paying the mortgage on the house to home his children plus paying maintenance and having to rent somewhere to live and buy all new necessities.
This is an actual case that I am familiar with.
The rich wife continues to make further demands while refusing to allow Contact.
Will these very practicle Conditions be met ?
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totally agree with most of the comments the CSA are just daylight robbers but with government backing!I wanted to take my children abroad(the first time they had been) so i worked all available overtime in order to afford this as taking kids on holiday in school holiday times is ten times more expensive as term time!Anyway, i worked sometimes double the normal hours a week,my ex realised this and asked the CSA for a reveiw and they took all the overtime into account.This meant my monthly child support rose from nearly £200 to nearly £600.When i told them they told me that the income was obviously available so i could earn that amount always.When i told them it was not the cases and the new monthly amount would cripple me they told me tuff and if arrears occured i should look into credit card companies to help me clear these!!! Why are they allowed to use overtime and why do they not use the PWC earning in to account.Does anyone have same problems and any ideas
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i have moaned to the csa about contact with my son who i get to see for 5 and a half hours a fortnight but they just say its nothing to do with them !!
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I have recently been told that when my mortgage goes up by £100 that it will NOT affect my payments, how can that be when I amon the 1992 legislation which is based around your mortgage payments!!
Still as long as I keep providing my ex with enough cash to pay hers who cares!!!
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me again
i must say that i spoke to some very nice people at the csa, one lady cried at my plight, one guy was going through a divorce as well and empathised with me, i know that several of the csa staff have commited suicide from what i have heard and we nearly all know people who have taken their lives because of the csa ounding them. this cannot go on, it is fundermentaly wrong. cases should be done on an individual basis and fairly
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I hate to shout about this but everyone on here, yes everyone, is missing the point........
THIS WILL HAVE NO BEARING ON THOSE PEOPLE ALREADY IN THE SYSTEM, WE ARE STUCK ON WHAT EVER LEGISLATION WE ARE ON UNTIL THIS CRAP ORGANISATION CHANGES US!!!!
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robbeddad, send in 5 weekly payslips or 2 monthly slips with normal hours worked, with or without overtime and ask for a reassessment
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richardcornwall.cheers mate may have to do this but this also comes with the drawback that now my payments have trebbled its going to become increasingly dificult to meet all the normal bills we all face aswell as the CSA payment without overtime when available.Catch 22 springs to mind!!!
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The woman holds all of the cards. Some men are completely unreasonable but then again so are a lot of women. Sometimes, women cut off their own nose to spite their own faces. What woman with any self respect should prevent a father from contact with his children just because he maybe made a mistake or because she had fallen out of love with him and is now in love with another? If a relationship breaks down, the responsible thing to do is put your kids first. Raising kids is a hard enough job. Doing it all by yourself will only make it twice as hard.
Women, if your children's father has never caused you any harm and has never harmed your children and has a proven track record of providing for them, then why use your kids as a tool to extort money from him. Aside from which, you need time off, time you could have to lead your life while your children are looked after by the next best person to you – someone who probably loves and cares about them as much as you do.
Money has traditionally been said to be the root of all evil. What I have read here tonight would seem to corroborate that this in this case. Yes, we all need money to live, but using your kids to manipulate their father is pure folly. Forget the money, your kids will miss out on far more if you do not permit them contact with their father in terms of their identity and their personal development and a male role model. You yourselves will miss out on the life you could lead if your kids were being looked after by your Ex's a couple of nights a week. In my opinion, a woman who keeps her children's father away from them for the sake of a few quid or for their vindictive reasons is rather selfish and does not have the best interests of their child in mind.
Relationships do break down too readily these days. It's an easy come easy go society where people don't seem to be satisfied and happy with what they have – they are always looking for something better whether that is more money, a new life or a new partner. People rush into relationships and making babies far too easily these days and seldom contemplate the future or what they would do if something went wrong in the relationship. Why can't people see that if they get out of their relationships, they won't necessarily end up with a less problematic relationship, it will just be a different set of problems with another person. Accept that relationships will have bad patches and problems and that you will solve little by walking away from it. Relationships need working at to keep them healthy. If more people looked at their circumstances in this way there would be less demand for the services of these allegedly incompetent and grossly disorganised and unfair organisations exercising their 'god like' powers – organisations such as the CSA.
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robbeddad, in the same boat mate. check out www.afairercsaforall.co.uk we'll give you all the advice you could need!
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Are you all having problems too?
Sadly a lot of us experiance problems with the CSA, wether its due to delays, errors or maladministration, or wether we are PWC, NRP or their partners.
Ultimately its our children that become the real victims :(
Try afairercsaforall.co.uk theres also a forum for free help and support.
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Much the same as most other dads who have dealt with the CSA. I Don't class myself as an absent father as i have as much to do with my child as i possibly can, yet i feel penalised by the CSA as i made myself an easy target by being honest with them. The entire system is biased toward the parent with care in most cases and causes nothing but resentment from the other side.
I am on the "old rules" and have been told that the government decide who/when people will be changed onto the "new rules". If i were on the new rules, i have my daughter stay with me regularly enough to have the "shared care" apply, as i am on the old rules i don't get this.
I feel penalised as i do as much as i possibly can for her, in 6 years i have made the hour round trip to pick her up and then take her back at the end of her weekend stay on all but 3 occasions when the travel has been reversed.
We pay for her when she is with us, we buy her what she needs and we are paying for regular hobbies/clubs she takes part in with us yet the CSA take none of this into account and treat me like an absent father who wanted nothing to do with her. Our earnings are far less than that of the mother and husband who is in the navy yet i have to pay toward their new extension, double glazing, carpets throughout and holidays abroad yet i can't afford a mortgage. Despite my CSA payments i am still asked to contribute towards school uniform and karatee class by her mother. (my monthly CSA payment would have bought the entire school uniform 3 times over already, is this not enough?) I agree i should pay fairly toward the upbringing of my child but am too honest for my own good. The whole system is unfair on those that try and do there best in already difficult enough circumstances!
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Dear BBC come on you can do better than that, that little feature was a joke, if you are going to do a piece on such an emotive and unfair system, do it properly. it's what we pay our licence fee for!!!
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Why not get parents who've left their children to contribute to their up-keep?...
who says its the parents who leave there children the csa are after?
the csa goes after males only! never the female"! they are sexist and believe when a family split up its the fathers fault, do you know it takes two to make and look after a baby ?
if the csa make the amount to look after a baby fare and that both parents had the responsiblility then we wouldnt have anywhere near this problem.
i am sick of hearing its the fathers fault!
two prents then two pay for the child!
i am on the old system and am expected to find £112.00 a week to pay child support do you really think it costs that much from just one parent? the reason is most of that amount is to pay the mother who wont allow me access
go figure!
stop blaming fathers! mothers need to take the blame just as much!
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Are there any legal eagles out there??I originally agreed to take responsibility of the payments of a debt when we split(i now realise this was out of feeling guilty) until my ex got financially straight.Now the CSA will not take it into account as she claims financial discloser was finalised.It wasn't but the CSA take her verbal word as gospel and i have to try and find written evidence to the contray!How come she does not have to supply any evidence
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Hear Hear!!! why dont the BBC use some of the licience monies and produce an entire programme on the plight of many at the hands of the CSA and let the TRY and explain the ludicrous rules and calculations(as well as telephone staff that don't seem to care)
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richardcornwall well said. I think this is a topic that deserves a lot more than a brief 5 minute report on TV
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As is often the case the One Show repeats the stereotype of the 'Absent Father'. Most fathers of children they are separated from are still present in their lives and contributing to their financial support. Few object to the principle of supporting their children even where the level of contact is not what they hoped it would be following separating from ex partners. It is hard to see this as a level playing field when CSA assessments do not take account of fathers committments but are generous toward mothers who by contrast are seen as heroic single mothers abandoned by feckless menfolk. For example benefits such as working families tax credits do not take into account contributions from fathers, host of other benefits are also on hand (such as council tax relief). When the oldest child of my ex wife reached adulthood my CSA assessment ,set at 30% of my pay after deductions (£480)did not reduce. My 2 young children of my new family mean my wife has to be a full time mum and cannot work. This new family resulted in a reduction of just £111 per month in my payments to my ex wife. By comparison my ex wife works 16 hours per week, she recieves monthly £600 from the taxpayer in addition to her wage, £370 from me, our daughter (residing mostlywith her) recieves £120 to carry on in her 'A' levels. My ex does not work full time despite re training and being a qualified teacher. She neither wants to nor needs to financially. I am proud that I have contributed to the financial needs of all my children. However my new partner is rightly aggrieved by the unfairness of the above situation which is hard to morally justify. Our two children are worth £111 (reduction in CSA assessment).My one remaining child by my ex wife pulls in a staggering £1090 per month in combined payments.
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gloriousharveys...csa worker
you arent doing a job thats the problem!
you must see that the amount for fathers to pay isnt fare and you must see that you dont chase the fathers who hide!
you go after the easy targets and look after and protect mothers as well hide money thay are getting so we pay more.
i am here to pay for my child nothing else and only a fare amount !
the mother can take her responsiblilty too
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flexipops csa worker
yes we just should pay have our money taken from our account no matter how much the csa say we should pay 50%60%70% of our wages should go to paying for a child we arent allowed to see and the mother doesnt need to take responsibility yes flexipops lets have a csa like that !!!
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I was saddened and disappointed by tonight's feature on the one show about the CSA but the following programme on BBC london which featured Mariella Frostrup and the plight of mothers seperated from their children.
As a father who has been paying maintenance consistently from the day I was asked to leave the family home and who has not seen his daughter in four years despite spending 90000 pounds in legal fees to date to try and get access I cannot understand why fathers are continually villified and derided when we have absolutely no rights or recourse to the law.
When will the BBC actually start to recognise the far bigger and more damaging effect on children and their long term mental health that is the result of bitter mothers using their children as a weapon of hate. how many fathers who fail to maintain doso as a last resort.
Why am I expected to pay for a child I am unable to see who i have no say in the bringing up of. When oh when will the BBC investigate the critical and fundamental failure of the UK legal system that allows a mother to deny access, to have you arrested, to villify you, to destroy your financial security and any relationship with your child without consequence other than long term emotional damage to thier own children. BBC get some balance. How desperate do fathers have to get to make people listen to their plight
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BBC, Listen up your viewers are asking for fairness. I bt you could fill a 2 hour show on the injustices of the CSA, Please do one i would be interesting to expose the governments dirty little secret. If you need stories we are more then happy to furnish you with them. You have our organisations email address or contact us at the site
www.afairercsaforall.co.uk/
We look forward to hearing from you
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The CSA is a complete shambles - they only bother to chase up payment from the ordinary working father who has nothing to hide and is therefore easy to find and contact (these are invariably fathers who already accept their responsibilities and are willing to pay a 'fair' contribution towards the upkeep of their children). The CSA do not take a fair and balanced view of the individual circumstances in each case and treat what they call 'the absent parent' like a criminal. I have had nothing but stress and grief in all my dealings with the CSA, they initially contacted me by post to tell me that my ex-wife had contacted them for payments (even though I had already agreed with her an acceptable monthly payment for the children) they told me they would contact me shortly with the amount I would have to pay. The next contact I had was letter 2 months later telling me I had 7 days in which to make a payment of '£X amount or bailiffs would be calling to recover the amount, I rang them to say I had not had any notification of the decision or the amount I had to pay and they said they had already informed me by letter and that I had ignored it in an attempt (and I quote) 'to weedle out of paying it' - it turned out (eventually) that had sent the letter to an address we had lived at 10 years previous to our separation.
I continued to pay (several hundreds of pounds per month) until my eldest child left full time education, I foolishly assumed the amount would then drop substantially as I would now only be supporting 1 child - it dropped by about 10%. I contacted them to say this was surely not correct, they then re-assessed me and I now have to pay £50 per month more for the one remaining child than I was originally paying for the 2 children even though my salary and circumstances have remained exactly the same. I have constantly struggled to make these payments and keep my 'head above water' whilst my ex-wife manages to have the funds to buy and keep 4 horses !!
To add insult to injury she had the affair that ended our marriage and has since done all in her means to deny me any contact with my children for over 8 years.
Is this a fair and just system? ....I think not. How are fathers expected to 'move on' with their own lives when they are constantly treated in this manner.
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I understand the need for the csa.It was brought in to find errant fathers who refused to pay for their children,a noble gesture.It has however turned into a machine that is open to abuse and fails to find fathers who have decided to opt out of/play the system.It is easy to persue persons who are paid from the public purse or are employees of reputable businesses.It is the people who opt out of the system or the self employed who can fiddle their money where efforts need to be made to trace and locate their funds. From a personal point of view what is the point of spending a lot money on a consent order and having the maintenance outlined in the order.Paying the maintenance on a regular basis without any non payment.Then having the ex partner stop me having contact with my son and go to the csa and tell them I am not having any contact.The advice i got from the csa was get a contact order.Another order which is not worth the paper it's written on but costs between £1500-£7000 to obtain.And while you are thinking about that we want you to pay nearly 50% more to your ex who got a 70%-30% split on the proceeds of the divorce settlement.The system is inherently unfair.
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Listening to your program tonight makes my blood boil.My son has to pay £600 per month for 1 child who he has no access to as it was a 2 week relationship with the girl intent on getting pregnant to use the situation so as she could get housing .My son has always unerstood he has to pay but this amount is unattenable.He was in the RAF and had no option to pay their demands with no recourse or he would be out of a career.Recently the situation has become so bad we his parents are having to help him out or he would go under.We as pensioners do not get this amount to LIVE on from our state pensions so how come 1 child is assessed at this level.No one helps they are a ruthless faceless organisation.My son is close to the edge,he has no money to buy a house having had to leave his home and move into council property.He has married but cant afford a family and also cant afford to get on the property ladder.Also there appears to be a two tier system this is wrong in this day and age in Britain.Aparently on the second system the assement comes out by half as much less.Also why are the mother and child situation not made available to the payer as their circumstance have changed as we believe she has changed her name and has another child, which I might add came by error in th post to my son claiming for 2 children the other with a different surname to his mothers so we presume she has married So therefore her circumstance must have changed.This wants bringing to light stop persecuting the willing payers and chase the ones that duck & dive over avoiding any payments at all and I know a few.THE SYSTEM IS BIASED AND NOT FAIR IT IS BASED ON EASY TARGETS not what the sytem was set up for in principle.
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BBC
You have just received more than 200 blogs in 5 hours - will any of this feedback be used productively?
Over the 15yrs I have had to deal with the CSA, I have seen numerous TV and newspaper articles on the inefficiency of the CSA. However, no action is ever taken at Govt level to quickly deal with issues raised by those affected.
Will you be collating feedback and asking the Govt for more help than a new computer system?
If they are prepared to pay billions to bail out banks, can they not consider writing off the arrears debt on all cases and allowing the agency to 'start afresh'. Surely this would give the agency a fighting chance to show that the system works. Otherwise, how are they going to cope with no processes on top of the 6 months backlog they are quoting me?
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Will the new system protect the dads who try to do the right thing - I doubt it very much.
Having seperated from my ex who was having an affair, will the new system protect me and the children.
Before the split I had the children in my care every evening and weekend while my ex worked at her Dad's pub - now she has moved her partner into the house they want me to start paying maintenance.
I still have the children weekends and during the week I run the children to their after school activities as she won't. They are both drinkers and any money I hand over will be drunk - when I have the children I get anything they need and I don't question it. I know that I any maintenance is paid to my ex the children will loss out because I can't afford to run them around their activities while supporting my ex and her waster - there is only so much money in the pot.
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The 'parents with care' are not the only ones let down by the CSA. When i moved into a rented flat, having lived with my mother for 2 years after separating from my first wife. The CSA calculated my reassessment incorrectly, through no act of deception on my part I hasten to add. I asked for it to be checked on 3 separate occasions. After my ex-wife appealed and 5 months down the line, a mistake made by the agency was finally spotted. By this stage arrears had accrued in excess of £1,000. Because of the payment being asked for and my out-goings at that time. I asked by phone, for the first month to make a part payment not full, so as to make arrangements to move back to my mums. This was agreed to. 3 days later I recieved a letter saying because I had refused to pay, the CSA was imposing a deduction from earnings order. Even though there had been no problems with paying for the previous 2 years. This whole situation has contirbuted to what was an already acrimonious relationship with my ex-wife, degenerate further. I asked the CSA to explain the mistake made by themselves, to my ex-wife. But they refused, but gave me a cheque for £25 in compensation for 'not receiving the level of service expected'. While all this was happening, I met my new wife. She has never received a penny for her 2 sons in the 7 years since her divorce, such are the failings in the current system. This further compounded by the fact, that since we married, my ex-wife has been awarded a departure decision in her favour - a payment outside the normal parameters for assessments. This she secured by claiming to live alone with our two daughters. Despite the fact that for the last 7 years, the man she left me for has lived with them. She has not re-married. But the saddest thing in all this is the fact that I have not seen my 2 daughters for the last 3 years. I separated and subsequently divorced my ex-wife in 2001. I cannot blame this wholly on the CSA but they have had their part to play.
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i agree that all absent parents should pay something towards the upbringing of there children but when o when will the amount paid be assesed fairly the answer i fear is never,i have been paying over £500 a month since the late 90s nearly half of my total take home pay,and i am still paying.i have had to stay with friends and relatives because i couldnt afford anywhere to live for the last 5 yrs. i recently recieved a letter from the csa saying that my payments are due to finish next year(2009) but i will still owe £6000 to the goverment which must be paid now and that they will be making a deduction of earnings of £160 a month on top of what i am already paying to clear the outstanding amount ,how on earth is that fair,do i jump off a cliff now because,like many others,that is how i feel.
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There are plenty of people out there that wish they can have kids of there own so how can we call absent parents parents, if they dont have anything to do with there own kids. I was happy with my single life and my 2 children until CSA contacted me asking details about there bilogical father. I complied as I didnt want to get into any trouble but didnt want a thing to do with him. It has been nearly 17 years since we split and a folder filed of papers from the CSA about what he should pay, have I had a penny from him NO!!!!!! Every time I call CSA asking them whats happening regarding these letters all I get is excuse after excuse telling me all different things like yes its going to court, or balliffs are instructed and the storys go on. I have never wanted his money but they have always said to me its not for you its for your children to give them a better life. Well CSA have not provided that for my children so why have they got these people to do a job that they cant forfill, waste of taxpayers money employing these people.......
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Ive hd to fight with the csa to get any money from my exhusband he refused to pay then started to pay by dd then after 11 months cancelled the dd. So after being abusive to my case worker his wages were arrested and now he his work pays every month to csa direct but the csa cant pay it out to me as they are working off 3 systems and cant keep track of the money paid in to them. Ive been with 4 different offices over the past 4 years and now ive been moved to Falkirk office again so hopefully they can do the payments out to me on time. When i phone up to ask about my payments you never get the same person or they never do what youve asked or the systems down for upgrade that was the last excuse even althou the system was only put in in the spring. The only way i get any where is to contact my local MP and she manages to get them moving untill the next month. The whole system of the csa is rubbish and yes it needed to change. I understand that not all non resident parents dont pay but its the ones that dont pay that gets the bad press. Not sure if the new system will work because after all the people who have to use the csa are the people whos expartners dont pay so whats point of them having a private agreement they just wont pay that. Hopeing now the new system will work and properly the new system should not just work of what they say are paid but this should be checked that its correct with the persons p60 at end of year that way would stop false earnings being submitted to the csa.
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I understand that absent fathers must pay towards the upbringing of their children. My partner has 4 children from previous relationships, and has paid maintanince for all of the children and has had the children on a regular basis everyweek and once a month all from the Friday to the Tuesday morning. Now his ex of one of his children has taken him to the CSA, we have just moved in together using a depost from my house to help us build a home together, which still includes having this child time in every week and weekends. And the maintaince money. He is self emplyed and with the Credit crunch, we are just keeping our heads above water.
We only have a works van, doesn't make it possible to go out as a family.
His ex has a 4x4 has had 2 weeks in France and disney land last year......... How does this seem fair!
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anyone who has a problem with the way the CSA are dealing with their case can ask for a "face to face" interview, this will involve someone from the CSA either coming round to your house to discuss the problem, or you meet up at a local social security office.
i did this in January 2007 because i wasn't happy with the way they had worked out how much i had to pay, - (they never took into account any of my bills) the lady who came out was very experienced and admitted they hadn't worked things out properly, she went away telling me they would be in touch within 30 days, in the meantime i wrote to the Data protection department of the CSA asking them to send a copy all the information they hold on me, which anyone is entitled to do under the data protection act, when the information came to my surprise it had details of another child on it, i wrote to the officer who came to see me and told her.
no one has ever got back to me since my face to face last year, i did receive a letter in November 2007 though saying my payments were going down by £10 a week and to adjust my payments accordingly, this was not possible as the money was taken out of my wages by my employer, it needed the CSA to notify them, they never did.
i tried phoning them one night after work on the number i was previously given qouting my case number, the person i spoke to said to phone in the day time, i said i couldn't because i was at work, and on the letters i had previously been sent it said to phone between 8am and 8pm, i was then told that no one from the team on my case worked after 5pm?
i have now changed my job and the CSA have written to my new employer telling him to deduct £140 a week from my wages, i earn on average £400 a week before deductions, live on my own and have a mortgage of £630 a month so to have to pay £140 a week will surely mean i will end up losing my house, i could of course ask for a "face to face" interview.
p.s my ex works part time, has a mortgaged house of the same type as mine, and last year went on holiday to Mexico for two weeks and bought a £15,000 car, she refuses to allow me contact with my two children, even though there she has been ordered to by the courts.
i think this is because if she does and they stay with me for some of the time, she will lose some of the hand outs she gets.
Terry
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I am lucky enough now, to not have anything to do with the disaster that is the CSA. I have been divorced for 4 years, and am self employed, though at one stage i was full time.
The CSA seem to be unable to listen, or make fair decisions. 2 years ago they determined that from my 35k salary i should pay £370 per month, possibly affordable, if i didnt have to spend £ 480 pcm on travel to and from work. Monies were paid, i suffered, but then they decided to take it via direct debit.The paper work signed,sent back. Surprise surprise i get a phonecall from the Ex " where is the money
?" The CSA had taken my money, and not passed on in due time. !!! could i do anything hah NO. Their advice was to not send any money directly, so the CSA keep my money, The Ex is short of cash, i`m in trouble with her, and my daughter suffers as a result. As a doting father who is quite happy to be involved and pay for my child, the CSA has made what is a difficult situation very much worse.
The amusing thing is, that after many phone calls to the CSA , the poor people who just work for the CSA agreed with me that the organisation is a complete joke.
Simon
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BBC
The more I look at this blog, the more obvious it becomes the hard working people of Britain from all sides need, deserve serious debate.
My co-founder and myself launched www.afairercsaforall.myfanforum.org, 7 month ago. It has already a dedicated membersip of almost 400, despite low search engine listings and no advertising. It has grew simply due to word of mouth. Two weeks ago we launched www.afairercsaforll.co.uk, in 2 weeks it has a membership of 50.
At this point it needs mentioning we have no personal problems with the CSA, the websites were launched simply to help others. This allows us to remain impartial, and unbiased. Our team give up there time freely, and therefore both services are free, no donation requests are ever made. Instead our members are encouraged to donate to child poverty groups and children in need.
I would ask the BBC to take a look at our childrens stories, or visit the forum. As the co.uk website is still in infancy, only a few of our many stories are currently posted, but we can provide any person with cases from NRP side, PWC side, and importantly childens side
So we as a relatively new fast growing group ask the BBC to help the people of this country and run a progam on these issues thank-you
www.afairercsaforall.myfanforum.org
www.afairercsaforall.co.uk
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I am sick of fathers being blamed for being absent and not paying. The system is entirely unfair. Mothers may have the kids mostly at their house but shared care does not mean the father is 'absent' or even wanted that situation. too many mothers break up the marriage and use the kids to get at the fathers.
Why isn't it means tested? that way the kids can enjoy same things at mums and dads house.
But unfair test treats the father as a criminal, when it is not absent that they want to be. The mother gets all the power.
'don't visit your dad and we will get more money'.
The father can do all the running around, feed them most days but pay a fortune to mum because they went to hers to sleep.
New system- sounds like just hunting what they consider criminal fathers again. What about the kids????!!!
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What about the latest policy of the CSA? Demanding all arrears, disputed or not to be paid back within 14 days irrespective of how much you owe?
In reality they are demanding it all back within 2 years but they don’t say that on their letters.
The demand is irrespective of the amount and your ability to pay and if you don’t pay they threaten to sell your house, take away your driving license or put you in prison!
The CSA have turned into bullies and are acting more akin to loan sharks!
Even the Citizens advice are exasperated by their actions and say they are acting unlike any creditor. It’s as if they don’t want the money, they just want to punish.
I suppose it does go with their motto. The CSA, Judge, Jury and Executioner!
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Hi Serapis,
Your one of DBD members, i think we are dealing with these issues daily, and have liability order/ DEO actions to deal with daily
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The CSA have let me down, for 13yrs I was a single mother bringing up one child on my own. Her father owed £41000 in maintenance, £28000 was owed to me and the remainder was owed to the Secretary of State due to me being on Income Support at the time. In 2006 the CSA finally managed to get the father of my child to court and he agreed to pay £50 a wk back pay. After two weeks of receiving this via the CSA it stopped and then started again once they chased him for payments. He managed to make 6 months worth of payments. In 2007 a month before my daughters 15th birthday she moved to live with her father due to problems at school she wanted to start out fresh in a new area.
It wasn't long until I received a letter from the CSA regarding maintenance payments from myself, at first I thought this will be easy, they can offset my payments against what he owes me because of his failure to pay maintenance for his daughter over the past 13 years. I was told it doesn't work like that so now I pay £162 a month to him a man that couldn't and wouldn't even put his hand in his pocket to help pay for school trips etc luckily for me I had a great family who could help me out from time to time to take the pressure off. Nearly a year now since I started payments to the CSA Now I am left angry and bewildered about the situation that I am now in. This year the CSA did put a charge on his house for the sum of £16000 but now that my daughter is living there they can't force the sale of the house so I don't know if I will ever see any of the money owed to me. Lets hope that the new agency will be able to offset my payments against what is owed to me.
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I have always believed the CSA was set up to help parents take responsibility for creating children until recently. My partner was currently paying an agreed amount with the CSA, they then decided to review and having calculated his current salary then proceeding to backdate the amount by several years even though he proved he was not earning the same salary then. The CSA then decided to take 40% of his salary stating he only required £1200.00 per month to live on this includes a £900.00 mortgage. When we queried the amount and stated we have a child living with us, we were told that our child was not considered and they did not have to take into account that like all children he would require feeding and clothing. On top of the bills my partner has to find petrol money to get to and from work and apparently this is also not their concern. In the meantime I have seen the other childs mother driving around in a brand new car so I take it feeding and clothing her child is no longer an issue. I do not object to my partner paying his way for this child but why does it have to be at the expense of another child, surely there is some way to resolve this but each time we have contacted the CSA the response is your child does not matter. Like most parents my child does matter.
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I think the CSA is a disgrace. I split with my daughters mother after she had an affair with my friend and then they got married 2 months later.
she got the house, car and the shares and i walked away with the clothes on my back. She refuses to let me she my daughters and now the CSA are taking 40% direct out of my wages. She has changed my daughters name without my consent. They have 2 very good wages coming in so why are the CSA hammering me. I am not hiding away from the fact that i have children and yes i should be paying for the up keep but surely im getting hit with the big stic because i work. I have a friend that is in the exact circumstances but he pays £258 per month less than me. I have tried every avenue for help is there anybody that could point me in the right direction. Every time i have spoken to the CSA the are always on the side of the mother.
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Guys come along join us. We are actively trying to address government, the more on board. The bigger and louder the voice.
www.afairercsaforall.co.uk click to join forum
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I have an attachment of earnings order for my ex husband and it is still not enough to gaurntee payment every week. The csa advised me not to rely on any payment and they would only send what they recieved yet i am in arrears nearly every month as the company TNT who my ex works for "forgets" to put the relevant refrences on the back of the cheque they send. This has being going on for over 4 years but knowbody can do anything about it. TNT or my ex do not get charged admin cost for late payments or have to keep saying no to young children because the csa cant get it right. I was told the computer thinks for itself and charges money to accounts when it seems fit. Bill Gates watch out as the csa are the only people I know who have computers who "THINK FOR THEMSELVES". WHEN are the children going to be treat fair in this after all if it was decent parents we were dealing with we wouldnt have to have an csa at all!!! It seems to me that the absent parent is the winner hands down here as they now know they have a capped earning and to some it gives them the right to stay off work and know their money will be there but to hell with paying for the children they helped produce. Easy option let the government make the payments and i bet the government will get the money from the parents who should be paying, i bet there would be no arrears on any of the accounts then as they would just deduct it and put it straight into the gorvernments bank account. Problem solved, but we are mostly women and children and afterall does anyone really given a dam about us.
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I think it was disgusting the way they shut Christine up, when she said it was not only men that were not supporting children, during the discussion on more powers for the CSA. 22 October 2008.
It is wrong in our ‘free’ society to let civil servants have more power than the courts; they have too much power now and miss-use it to persecute good fathers, because it’s easier than chasing errant ones.
During the CSA’s reign of terror child poverty has increased, more fathers lose contact with their children than ever before and more fathers then ever just disappear from the system and become non-productive and non-citizens
Absent fathers are blamed for the blight of feral youths roaming our estates, yet it’s the system that snatches children away from fathers regardless of what is best, or, who has the capacity to CARE for them. Why should children behave within the rules when they can see the way the (CSA) system treats their main male role model.
If the Government scrapped the CSA and ploughed 25% of the CSA’s budget into a fair Family Law and Mediation Service, we could identify the errant fathers & mothers and concentrate our efforts on them and leave good parents (married or not) to make their own arrangements for the children.
As it stands at the moment the system benefits only civil service employment, as a tax paying citizen of the UK I believe that justice should be carried out by the Justice System in an open way and not by the closed shop civil service.
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My husband contacted the CSA as his ex wife was recieving maintenence directly but then stated that the money was not maintenence but something else - What he would be paying her for we do not know!!
Since that time we have been hounded, harrassed, threatened and stressed by them constantly despite never missing a payment.
They are obsessed by making the people who are already paying, instead of looking at the ones who pay nothing at all.
It is not fair, rational or balanced. Instead of recouping more money from those of us who willingly pay, they need to put their time and energy into finding the loop-holes of the self employed and the non-payers!!
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i_amchloexxx,
Unfortunately DBD promised everything but delivered nothing. I supplied all the info they requested, but they didn’t even reply to me.
Presently the CSA are demanding nearly £800 a month from me or as I do not own my own home and have no assets they can take, the only alternative is taking my driving license which means I lose my job or putting me in prison which means I will certainly lose my job. Both scenarios mean I will no longer be able to support my son.
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my ex partner was supposed to pay me £5.00 per week from 25th oct 2006,since that date i got two £10.00 payments of that year then payments from 1st aug 07 until 1st oct 07 then he got a job from which i received no payments and was then informed in april of this year what i should have been getting even though he finished work in dec 07 then from 23rd april 08 i started receiving my £5.00 a week again until the beginning of september this year when he started work again and as of yet i have received nothing,my expartner gets three weekend contacts out of four and expects me to provide clothing for my son at his home,so people who have sympathy for fathers who are being chased are not right in the head the fathers help to make the children and fetch them into the world but are not prepared to pay for their children when they leave the family home?
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I think that the CSA need to look at each case individually, it is not always the father that are 'the bad ones'. I have been with my partner for 10 years and he has 2 girls with his ex-wife. He has always paid privately every month and we have also had to pay for school uniforms every year, school trips, out of school membership e.g gymnastics. At the beginning of this year the eldest daughter had enough of the mothers poor mothering skills and the abuse and moved in with us. My partner said to his ex that as we were now looking after a child each, he would provide for the child living with him, whilst she should provide for the child living with her. She did not like the fact that she would be losing money every month so went to the CSA and told them that my partner had never paid. We are now having to pay £400 per month whilst as she is 'not working' she pays £21 to us. Surely as we have a child each it should cancel one and other out. We have our own house and we both work yet it is the daughter that is living with us that is going without as we have not got enough money to pay the bills let alone money for her. She is working cash-in hand jobs and earns around £200 per week but as this can't be proved we will not get anymore from her. Her children are at school so she could go out and earn herself an honest living but she chooses not to as she earns more off of benefits, so why are we being penalised for it.
The worst thing is the mother has told the child that is living with us all of this, and the only person that is getting really hurt in all of this is the children, as they do not understand, the child living with us is having to see a counsellor weekly because of what her mother is putting her through. I think it is distgusting. I love the children as my own, but i have not got any children and can not afford to have them with the man i love becasue i am paying for someone elses.
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What makes the Govt think that this new version of the CSA is going to be any different? Changing its name won't mean a thing. We need to know how they are going to change. What powers they have now to get the maintenance in that they did not have previously. My situation, kids Dad earns thousands a week. BUT, he has lied to the CSA saying he earns £120 per week. Nothing I can do or say or provide as proof has made them visit him or revisit the claim. It is a complete joke. So, I get £6 per week for two children and he is laughing all the way to the bank because he hides his money in various other names etc. How will the new CSA tackle claims like this I would like to know? I tried to agree a £100 per week with him before I contacted the CSA but he told me this was too much!!!!!!!!!! The CSA was my last resort after 4 years trying to get some money from him. (I pay for everything and he is the one who did the dirty - where is the justice. He wanted kids!!!)
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I totally sympathise with the blog above from smiley. My partner earns jack and yet pays £40 a week for his ONE son. They started taking it from his salary although he never disputed it and agreed to pay it all the way. So, he earns next to nothing and pays £40 a week for one child and I and my partner earns thousands and pays £6 per week for two children. THE CSA Are totally incompetant. I agree above, if you have one child each then no monies should pass hands at all. It is fair. BUT the csa base it on the salry you earn (20% of salary in our case with differentials that we all know about based on various circumstances. ) BUT, if the person giving their financial details is lying, (as above she is earning money on the side, or as in my case he puts al his eggs in different baskets and names, then the system does not work.) CSA told me they would watch him to see what business he does (They didn't). They said they would freeze his assets (but they didn't). They said they would look into his tax records (but they didn't). If he was only earning £123 per week how can he afford the 4 holidays he has a year and the fancy cars and boats, jetskis, etc. The Boat moarings alone are £400 a month. IT IS A NO BRAINER!!!! But, CSA say I need proof. What else can I do? If anyone from the CSA is reading these blogs then why not get in touch with US. Find out what the real issues are. Not what you think they are. I would be happy to discuss this with anyone. For my own sanity, I have given up on the CSA myself now as I know I will never get any money. But my kids know! And that is all I care about.
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The CSA would be respected more if it listened and was consistant. Every letter you receive gives different calculations to the last. I have received a letter saying that in October 2007 my child support liability had ceased. in August 2008 I received a letter saying a Deduction from Earnings Order had been made for £7,100 arrears and yet the CSA had been making a deduction of £23.00 from my earnings. There seems to be no appeal procedure and they will not tell me how their calculation is made, now they will not even answer my letters
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Snappy muffin dont put up with it mate.
Serapis, sorry you had a bad experience with DBD, you should have come to us. We have big LO hearings this week.
What we do is give our members a letterheaded outline of errors for the court to read, might not always work, but at least it makes the court aware of the circs.
Come on board wth us mate you dont have to fight this alone
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My husband is someone who complies to everything the CSA request of him. So why is it he gets treated like the 'guilty party'?
When morally and finanancially his children is 100%.
I think the new agency needs to deal with both parents on equal terms, which clearly in most cases it favours the 'mother'.
My husbands ex seems to spend all the maintenance money she receives on holidays, and short trips on herself. To prove she is abusing this maintenance money 'we' have to hire a private investigator. We can't afford that.
A little more scrutiny from the CSA on mothers claims, would not go a miss?
The whole process a a new wife is infuriating, I don't understand why my income is important to the CSA, but not the ex wifes new husbands income, pension and savings. Where is the justice for the fathers and new families who comply?
We can't afford to see the children, take them on holiday let alone hire a private investigator. My husbands ex has had 3 holidays without the children and a 4 with in the last 5 months.
The new agency should really get involved with each case, meet both parents and get stuck into the detail. I am tired of such unfairness.
Meanwhile my husband is still on the old system prior 1992/3, when he received a letter to advise he would go onto the new at that time. The response we receive is 'the csa do not have the system or resources to cope'. What do the CSA do apart from seek out the easy targets.
I am tired of hearing about the unfairness on single mums etc Clearly this needs addressing but how about those mums/partners that are misusing the 'system' to their own personal benefit. I am sure there are many 2nd marriages that have to tolerate this behaviour. And appears to be accepted or unrecognised by the CSA.
Jo, Dorset.
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Sorry but this whole system seems to work on the assumption that all fathers are at fault. The main reason the CSA was created was to chase errant fathers so this is understandable but extremely unfair. Each case is unique so I'm basing this on mine.
Similar to other stories on here, my ex left me after six years because she simply met someone else.. There was nothing underhanded or sinister such as abuse...I hadn't suddenly become Andy Sugden!
We had a few debts which many couples have now days but most choose to work through them. However she chose to walk away with my daughter from me for someone else.
No-one held a gun to her head and the choice was purely hers which is fine, but the current system allows mothers to simply do this with very little consequences or effect to them
They need somewhere to live then benefits pay the rent & bills. They need cash for the kids the CSA/CMEC chase the fathers for it and the Courts ensure the laws are in place for them to be able to do this.
In terms of the law if any woman goes for a job and they get turned down purely because they are a woman then there is an outcry.
So why when a relationship breaks up does the woman automatically get custody of a child purely because she is a woman (the mother)?
In a society and age that preaches equality across all fields then why shouldnt I be given custody of my daughter if I am seen to be in a better position to support her independently?
I consider myself to be as good a parent as my ex. I love my daughter as much as she does so I see no difference from that aspect.
If my daughter came to live with me, having worked for 13 years, then I could financially support her without any state subsidies.
There would be no need for benefits to pay my ex £800 per month as she could work and support herself.
No need for the CSA or CMEC to chase me for 15% every month.
I'd be happy to sign any agreement which waves my ex's financial obligations towards my daughter without effecting her rights to have contact with her
(Basically I'd wouldnt want a penny from my ex and she could see our daughter whenever and wherever she wanted)
Based purely on my case and without the argument of "because she's her mother" why is this approach unacceptable?
As I have listed this is purely in my case but I bet there are other fathers who are in the same boat who would favour this idea?
From the other side of the fence I fully appreciate that some fathers are at fault and in these cases there should be a working agency in place to ensure they pay for their children and accept that responsibility.
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My ex applied after i refused to give in to her threat of going to the CSA despite having an agreement in place for 10 years that has been paid by standing order for all that time as well as additional purchases of everyday items for my son. The CSA got in touch within a week and produced a figure that was wrong and also stated on paperwork that they gave back to me that no agreement was in place despite being given a copy of it. I feel like thay take the easy cases like mine and several others of your bloggers as it helps towards some performance measure they must have as they know we will pay and ignore the difficult cases where the "parent" is actually absent. If some feel the system is open to manipulation by some as to their total earnings, the parent with care (trying hard not to say mother or father here) has and does use the ultimate manipulation of how often the other parent gets to see the child in order to manipulate the payment. If an existing agreement is in place and has been adhered to why are even getting involved ?
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I think that is what the parent with care does. Use the CSA as a threat, and then punishment for the parent without care. And it works!! How wrong is that.
In our case we were paying religously for 10 years and then as one of the two children came to live with us, we said that it would be only fair that we provide for the child that lives with us and she would provide for the child that lives with her. That did not mean that we loved the child that wanted to stay with her mum any less.
SHe didn't like that, went to the CSA not only gets £400 per month from us but had it backdated even though we had already been paying. And then tells the child that is living with us that she is not getting anything from her anymore as that is what she pays the CSA £5 per week for. Amazing!
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Smilingpinky~ In cases like that we believe NO MONEY should change hands, why is child one worth £100 and child two worth a fiver. How to promote family, makes you sick
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Why bother? All these horror stories, all the broken families, all the hurt, all the pain, all the suicides yet no government will deal with it!
No one seems to have the power to stop the CSA not even the courts who are supposed to be the bastion of justice in our society!
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I have been waiting for 15 years for my son's father to pay.
After every excuse in the book plus a few more he finally started to pay!!!
But after a year he has stopped again
Now I have to wait another 3 months for the CSA to get a Liability order
It would be great if I could add the cost of all the hundreds and thousands of phone calls to the bill
I think the better solution would be for the Agency to pay out the money owing they would soon be able to find the absentee parents if they owed the Government rather than us common people
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Not all fathers are at wrong. My husband has paid £600 a month for the last 6 years for his 2 daughters plus buys them clothes etc. His ex-girlfriend wouldnt even allow his name on the birth certificate...She dosnt keep to letting us see the girls every 2nd week and messes us about something terrible. He is an amazing father and would love to spend more time with the girls. The girls are extremly upset and often cry to see him but she will not allow this to happen and wont allow phone calls unless it suits her. Now we have been told she is moving from Glasgow to London taking 2 young girls out of school and away from there father to stay in a 2 bedroom flat.. this is certainly not having the kids best interest at heart. The girls cry going back to stay with her and wish they could stay with us But as he is a FATHER and not the mother he has no say. Sometimes FATHERS get treated unfairly....
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Got to try serapis~ you will get 110% of us, between our sites we have 500 members, most have partners, in a few month the gov will have to listen
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i have been fighting with the CSA now since August 05 to get some money from my husband. The CSA tell me since April o8 it went to the courts for baliffs to chase him and i ring every 6 weeks and am told every time by someone different that it is still waiting for a judge to authorise. my husband has never paid a penny towards the children or house and swans about in new cars has 2 holidays a year and has a new live in girlfriend and i am overdrawn every month just paying bills and mortgage, no chance of a holiday or a new car and i hate saying no to schooltrips. it is the children that suffer!
blogwatch Devon
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It always seems that the fathers are the "black sheep" when it comes to the CSA. My husband is still paying for his 17 year old daughter who is not allowed to see. Unfortunately, she is disabled and is unable to visit him unless his ex-partner agrees - he has not seen her for over 2 years. He doesn't mind paying a weekly sum but it aggrieves him that he is not allowed to see her. It was his ex-partner who had an affair that brought their relationship to an end. The CSA have decreed that his "protected earnings rate" is a little over £200 per week - a sum that is not easy to live on, especially when the cost of living has been rising considerably. He wrote to the CSA last week, after they decided to take all his wages off him one week! Over a three week period his wages averaged £115 per week - I defy anyone to try to live on that! Apparently they are allowed to take a lump sum amount if they so wish, without any prior notification - so much for the "protected earnings rate"! In a telephone call today, following his letter, they said this rate wouldn't be changing - they don't take into consideration the cost of living apparently - and that even when his daughter has reached the age of 19 he will still be making payments in order to pay off some arrears. I cannot work due to ill health and any overtime payments my husband gets the CSA just take off him. Does this seem fair?? My husband has done nothing wrong and yet is penalised all round. Surely if he has to pay towards his upkeep he should be allowed to see her?
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In court you are innocent until proven guilty, with the CSA your are guilty come hell or high water!
The new name is just window dressing, are they going to change all the staff or the very expensive computer system they have taken many years to insatll and debug.
I don't think so
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The CSA are liars and thieves. They do not return any calls or answer any correspondence. They managed to take three payments from my account in one month totalling almost £500!! According to THEIR schedule I should have paid £187 per month. I have had arrears for three years, even though I have paid (+ more) what they have asked every single month. In one four month period they had almost £1600 of regular and "arrears" payments. They took this via a detachment of earnings order from my wages even though I had paid regularly. Detachment of earnings is only supposed to be used for people who have not paid for three months or more. I have never said I wouldn't pay and in the beginning I had to chase them to take the first payment. They use bully boy tactics. THEY NEED TO BE ACCOUNTABLE TO SOMEONE. I have had to employ a solicitor as it has stressed me out so much and has started to affect my health. Their account breakdowns are just laughable and they can't even add up!! I have also written to Gordon Brown who referred it back to the very department who created all this mess. They offered me £50 compensation for all the trouble they caused and admitted maladministration. £50, they owe me thousands taken illegally by DEO and other means. I am just a soft target as they know where I work. I will willingly pay for my own child, but not for others. They are only interested in meeting their target figures and don't care by what means they get the money. ABSOLUTELY DISGRACEFUL. THIS COUNTRY HAS GONE TO THE DOGS AND GORDON HAD BETTER NOT GET TOO COMFY IN NO.10 COS HE'LL BE OUT BY THE NEXT ELECTION. THIS IS HIS GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENT, SWINDLING HARD WORKING, HONEST PEOPLE OUT OF MONEY THEY CANNOT AFFORD (WITH ALLEGED ARREARS) THE CSA WORKERS ARE RUDE, UNHELPFUL AND MONEY GRABBING LIARS.
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Ihave been involved with the CSA for the last 7 years since my 1st husband left me with the 2 young children. My initial assessment based on his earnings was a mere £29 a week! He left me with debts and a mortgage that he never contributed towwards. He paid the minimum he could for approximately 5 years and I then had him reassessed as his lifestyle was not consistent with the minimal ammount of mainenance he was paying. I found out that he should have been paying a much higher amount but the CSA never chased him and a substantial amount of arrears had accrued. He messed about with paments as it suited, but in the meantime the CSA admitted that they had removed my account from the system in error, further adding to the arrears and as a result paid an advanced arrears payment, meaning my ex had to pay the CSA back. The CSA then put a deduction from earning order on him to obtian regular payments. Guess what, he gave up his job, went "SELF EMPLOYED" as a taxi driver, earning substantial amounts but no mainenance! I have not received any maintenance through the CSA since December 2006 despite many cals, complaints and stress. was finally told that my ex owed in excess of £6000, non of which the CSA have retrieved despite promises of enforcement action. My ex has now requested further reassessment and now only has to pay £6 a week! AND acording to CSA he only owes £124 in arrears!!!
INCOMPETENTS. The change of name will not make any difference, the workers will be the same and absent fathers will still get away with it!!! WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN.
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I thought the csa was a brilliant idea when it first came into being. I believed that every parent should support their children. However my own experience of the CSA was dreadfull. My ex wife had seen a solicitor for advice on how to get the house off me before I even knew there was a problem. She was seeing another man. We talked about her behaviour causing problems and when I told her she would eventually meet someone else she replied by saying `She could never find a better husband and father than me`!
I was absolutley devastated and suffered with depression for the next two to three years, with additional bouts following on.
I saw my own solicitor after our separation and she asked `if I wanted to claim custody of the children`? when I asked whats the chance of a man actually getting custody? she replied `well none really`, The result was the same when she asked me if I wanted to claim a reasonable share of the house which I had paid for throughout the marriage.?`
Whilst I was living with my mother my ex asked me to stop paying her household bills as she couldnt get help from the DSS. I then rented a two bedroom terraced house near to my children and enable then to stay with me when they wanted to. Then the csa rang me for payments. After being assessed I couldnt belive just how much I had to pay! bearing in mind that I had nothing from the marrital home except my clothes and personal items. And bearing in mind that I needed to get back on my feet somehow. No matter what I said or wrote - I felt I was treated as one of those dads who just didnt care. They knew how I felt, when they rang me and I broke down each time even threatening to end my life as I just could not see why it was worth living anymore. I really felt that they didnt care what happened to me or my children as long as they hit their targets. I was forced to move into a bedsit as I could no longer afford the little house. This struggle continued until even they realised they could take no more off me and I was absolutely broke. I then had a year without payments. When reassesed again I made the payments regularly but they then rang me to say I had arrears. I rang and checked this out on their help line and a gentleman told me that if I had been reassed then I would have no arrears. However they did not stop pressuring me on the phone again causing severe dsitress. I also questioned a rule change they claim happened. I told them that if they would put the rule change in writing, just a very brief note to me then I would pay the arrears even though I thought I didnt have any. They told me that `They didnt have the facilities to write a letter`! They also denied that I had made the phone call to thier help line and promised all calls are recorded. After more letters and phone calls I contacted a gentleman in whitehall. He rang me and when I explained what had been going on he asked me to write to him and ask under the data protection act for all the information the csa had on me. I also asked them just how much I had paid since my divorce. Needless to say I had to ask more than once. Before I recived the information, I one letter saying that I was actually due for a refund of several thousand pounds and another ketter referred to it as compensation.
They have made my life hell since my divorce and I still have a terrible dread of them contacting me again. I lost everything. My family was the thing I cared about the most and I lost it all. My children were certainly affected by it all including my ex wife constantly telling them I didnt care about them and claimiing I gave very little for them even though she planned to take everything from me.
I am now very happily remarried but the fear of the csa will always be there, these are hard enough times for anyone but living with this additional fear is a night mare. To make things even worse I still come across people who boast that they have never paid a penny towards thier kids. Is there any justice?
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Come and visit;
www.afairercsaforall.co.uk
- membership is totally free, theres also a forum for expert help, advice and support.
Whether your a resident or non resident parent OR their partner - Dont suffer alone, join others and lets try for change, together.
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The CSA is the only agency I know that does not seem to have any accountability to anyone. In the magistrates court recently I was told before I even went in to receive my LO for an amount of arrears that I dont owe, that in law they were obliged to grant this. I had gone armed with all my evidence of a wrong assessment and all the phone calls and requests to sort this out, over the past 6 years, being ignored, passed around, given wrong information, being talked to like I'm something on the bottom of a shoe. I have been voluntarily paying money over to my ex because this has not been sorted. I have involved my MP - and we will have to see what happens - I'm not holding my breath! Legalised crooks, that shocked me - I thought it would get sorted out in a fair manner - now I have been told to stop paying voluntarily and I fear that I will be punished by not being allowed to see my daughter. This is uncivilised treatment, silenced by stigma, and as my name suggests, I will not be voting for anyone, ever again. Matthew
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my wife decieded that our marriage was over.she made things so bad for me at home that i had no choice but to move out
i left with nothing but debt and three black bags.As she wasnt working all the loans and cards were in my name.She still lives in the council house with her new boyfriend while recieving benifits for being a single parent.I however am living hand to mouth because of the csa while her and her bloke are living it up-why doesnt the new system do something about this.
I paid for everything in that house like the furnishing,kicthen etc yet hes paid for nothing and is living there scot free
what if this new system made so that if another man takes on someone elses kids he should also be made to contrbute
Maybe the other man should be made to pay 50% of what i have to pay to the csa
i know it sounds like sour grapes but its not
hes with my kids 12 days out of every 14 and doesnt give them a thing yet hes working while i only see them 2 days everyfortnight and am expected to pay as if i have them all the time
im not even allowed to have them overnight i think this is a good idea-maybe it would make women think twice before splitting up households
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Did you know that the CSA had a department to deal with complaints made to MP's? This was in addition to the department for other complaints.
I didn't get anything from my ex husband for over two years. He just stopped paying. He decided that, along with many others, that if he went self employed he could pay less.
The CSA is worse than useless. It was better when you could go to court and arrange a maintenance plan. He has to pay £54 a month over half of which are arrears. £6 per week for two growing boys yet he can go overseas on holiday! The arrears that he owes us will take years to pay off.
It's a joke that just isn't funny. What can I get for £3 per child? It doesn't even pay for a weeks school dinners.
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Isn't it time the whole system of child related benefit payments was looked at? My husband is more than happy to pay for his two children. He has an agreement paying his ex-wife more than he would have had to if they had gone through the CSA. He pays an increased amount every year despite her getting a payrise, child tax credits, child benefits etc which are not taken into the calculations. When we got together I lost my lone parent benefit for my child, my entitlement to child tax credit payments, as his salary is counted towards the houshold income. Also for example I can't claim School Maintenance allowance for my child as my new husband's salary is also counted towards our income in calculating this. So in effect he is contributing to three children yet his maintenance payments don't take into account him supporting his step-daughter. I know people who get tax credits and school maintenance allowance because they are lone parents and their ex's maintenance payments don't matter or don't need to be disclosed! Why does it count in calculating soem things but not others? I've been a single mother so see both sides but feel some fathers are getting a really rough deal!
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I am REALLY annoyed by Geriatickid's comments on 22 Oct. Yet again, single mothers are getting it in the neck because some idiot hasn't got their facts right.
Does he/she not realise that the single parents (full stop - mothers or fathers) who supposedly "try to get too much out of the absent parents" don't actually get a choice in how much they receive?
The amount received is calculated by the agency, so if anyone is at fault, it is the agency's calculation policy and not the single mothers.
I have been a single parent for many years, I work hard and my ex sits on his ass on the dole because he doesn't want to pay more than £2.50 a week for his son.
So, Geriatickid, tell me now who's the greedy one?
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As a rather frustrated father, my complaints about the csa are many and varied. I have no problems at all with paying all agreed amounts towards my sons upbringing, the csa however, for whatever reasons unknown to myself, cannot organise a direct debit and several mandates have been forwarded to me all with incorrect information!Even after several phone calls to rectify this problem.To add insult to injury, not only does my ex stop me seeing my son, she's changed his surname to her own, yet the csa are more than happy to allow her to claim under his rightful birth name! JUSTICE FOR FATHERS!! someones having a laugh.
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I`m sorry but I don`t agree with what nosveratum is saying `us` women don`t have all the fun then expect the fathers to pay. My situation was not my falt, my ex husband decided that he wanted a younger model infact he was nearly old enough to be her `DAD`. He later married her then they separated and he also now pays for their 2 girls. Altogether my ex has 5 children and trying to get money out of him is like trying to get blood out of a stone, the 2 girls that he had last their mother gets more for them than I get for my son.
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After reading all these posts it's clear that yes, there are two sides to every story but that many fathers are getting a VERY rough deal. The legal system, the benefit system, much of society is against them. It doesn't help him see his kids more or make his ex see sense and try and undo the damage she has caused but at least he realises he's not the only one. So thanks to all who have told their stories here.
So, how can this situation of excluding fathers be sorted?
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Hi to all the paying parents, Have been paying since 1999 The csa took the first payment from my employer and I was left with 48 pound for a full weeks work as a skilled carpenter. Have paid every week since but now have been laid off so the kind people at the csa said as your out of work you only need to pay 135.00 a week. Oh and don't forget your 8000.00 pounds arrears ,were did that come from they can't even supply the dates for this .Still have my sons every other week but now lost my rented house so have to get the thinking head on for there next visit. Hay and all this from the wife moving in her old boyfriend and keeping the house. Don't forget all you parents that are struggling for payments to be recieved she only has a half million pound house poor thing.......Ps aslo have letters from the house of commons to say the system is not designed for me . So fight we might but lose we will... Perhaps the csa should run the imigrants system..That all clear it.
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I think the trouble with the CSA is the amount they want to take off the NRP.
When I was assessed 8 years ago they based my payments on an amount that was about £250 more than I took home, because they didn't allow for all of my pension, which I had been paying for years.
They also never allowed any deductions for council tax.
I was earning £20,000/year at the time.
After I had paid all my bills I was left with £30 per month to clothe and feed myself.
What person in their right mind would set up a system like this, let alone work all week and pay it.
The deadbeats on the dole who were having all the kids are still having them and are still not paying.
Gary. Berkshire
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Have problems with the CSA?
Join us, lets get our voices heard. We are not activists, we are mums and dads that are receiving a less than satisfactory service from a government body that has no 'duty of care'.
www.afairercsaforall.co.uk
Membership if free and there is a forum for free expert help, advice and support.
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My x gave me £133.33 on and off for my son age from 3. Even at that time it wasn't enough to pay nursery fees to allow me to work part time let alone contribute to feed clothes and living.Bear in mind if I wasn't looking after my son I would be working full time so effectively my son was costing me 50 per cent of my potential income.My x made no other contribution bar £5 birthday money in a card each year.
At 15 payments stopped. Initially I didn't chase it.
My son wanted to go to college to do A levels. We couldn't get a grant for my son as my partner and I earned over the threshold btween us. Why should my partner be finacially responsible to my son but not his dad?
So I went to the CSA and they helped - Thank you CSA- although they could only get back pay from the day I made the claim.Still I got a very welcome 5 months payments. 15% of his net income I believe.
My x was so enraged by the CSA making him pay that he WENT ON THE ONE SHOW on wednesday night!! Yes that was him.You can you imagine my shock!!
So I hope this proves that every story has 2 sides and we will all think we are the wronged party.I know some dads get a raw deal but I don't think my X did.
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I have been fighting the CSA for the past 14 years, with no joy! I am an absent father, but not through choice. The mother of my child left me with no explanation then lied to the CSA and Social Security. I paid her regular maintenance, then was accused by the CSA of not supporting my child. I proved to them that I had been giving her maintenance, but this fell on deaf ears. They decided to implement an attachment of earnings order against me, although I had proved to them that I had been paying! I have been to a tribunal with them, which found in my favour. My payments were reduced, then 3 months later they were put back up! To this date I still can not get an answer from the CSA as to why this happened! I have also been in arrears with them although they take the monies direct from my salary?! This I learnt is because at one stage they took 13 months to assess me!! They can wipe out any arrears if they take more than 6 months to assess, but they didnt. I recently had correspondence again informing me that i was in arrears. On contacting them they informed me that they had carried out an interim assessment, although I had no correspondence from them informing me of this! I have found over the past 14 years that this agency are inept and only seem to be interested in chasing those fathers/parents who are willing to pay for their children. I now have a new family, twins in fact, and on speaking to the CSA recently they told me that my payments would stay the same!! How did they work that one out?! Lets hope this new body sorts out the mess the CSA has left behind?! I wont hold my breath though!!!!!!!!!!!
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As usual, the story of the CSA centres on the mothers (I am sure there are plenty too) whom are being failed, but forgets about the lives of fathers in this country which are being ruined by them. I have paid the mother of my child since we separated, to discover she had been claiming benefits illiegally. The CSA contacted me to demand £2500. When I produced proof of payment to the mother, they said the mother did not receive them-they were bank-to-bank transfers. I have lost my job, on anti-depressants and been told they are going to take my passport, driving license or force me to sell my home. I have went to my local MP, whom was useless. The CSA have lied to me, changed my case-worker on multiple occasions to confuse the case and avoided following procedure to ensure they take the money they want, even though I have already paid it and more. Their mistakes, incompetency and ignorance are legendary.
They have destroyed my life.
A person in my street was left with £15 a week to live on by the CSA-he eventually committed suicide.
A friend of mine received a letter from them demanding £78 000. They claimed Inland Revenue informed them he had earney £128 000 last year. He is a brickie, and explained it was only £28 000, but had been paying the mother £100 a week since she left. It turns out she had also been claiming benefits on the side. They threatened him, until he managed to get a statement from Inland Revenue that he actually only did earn £28 000 the previous year and they had not informed the CSA of £128 000, as they claimed. Even though he had paid money to mother, they settled on £4000.
If the new Agency have the power to deduct from bank accounts, we are going to have situations where even though the figures are completely wrong, they will take what they want, when they want. This cannot be allowed to happen. As a country, we should group together and bring down this scam as the mother's dont even receive the full amount that father's pay-where does it go?
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I empathise with all the heartfelt and angry stories above from all those fellow Fathers who, like me, feel offended by the term ‘absent’ parent and who has paid continuously for 15 years without fail. I can’t comment on other cases but feel so hurt and angry that I can only portray mine. I divorced in 1992, gave her my house so that OUR kids could continue to live in the same surroundings and to the same standard of living, and not have the public cost to be housed by the council. By doing so, my Ex immediately obtained equity of £70k+ and took over a very small mortgage which was a fraction of the money the council would need if they re-housed her and our children at that time. We agreed all settlements and maintenance, and indeed the Courts commended our agreement, and seal stamped it with approval. Six months later, the CSA contacted me and told me they were doubling my payments, no negotiation, no appeal. Five years later, the CSA contacted me again and said their assessment was incorrect and placed £5000 arrears against my account, no negotiation or appeal procedure. Four years later my contributions increased again based on a false claim from my ex wife, which later I proved was false when she claimed she was not working. Three years ago my Ex had another child with her new partner, (and I sincerely wish them well) however, she decided not to go back to work and that effected MY maintenance, which I feel utterly aggrieved. She decided to have another baby, she decided to stop work, why on earth should that affect me? How can an agency decide that any decision SHE makes should effect me after we split 12 years previous. I didn’t see ‘The One Show’ which highlighted the issues and complaints with the CSA, but felt compelled to write, after hearing about the programme. Coincidently, and the reason for this response, I received a phone call from the CSA yesterday (23/10/08) as my youngest is now 19 years and my file has been closed. The CSA representative demanded either, full payment of the arrears, or they would send a ‘payment order’ (same as debt court order) direct to my employers to DOUBLE my current payments until arrears paid. The CSA representative gave me 3 days to come up with £5000 or the court order would be sent. I have continuously paid for 15 years without fail, I fully understand my obligations and responsibilities as a parent but I will never accept or understand how an organisation can overturn a personal and court approved (and commended) CLEAN break that has affected me so much over the past 15 years. This organisation does not have children as their priority, it is simply an organisation to collect money from easy targets to prop up the social benefits system supplied by the Government, irrespective of Party. They target bank accounts, not people. They have no understanding of individual cases, nor do they seek it. They are a target driven organisation above the law, and treat people in a derogatory manner. If I don’t come up with £5000 a court order will be placed against me that could affect my credit rating forever, some loyalty to a Father who has paid continuously and religiously for 15 years without fail, and who has not seen his kids for 10 years due to a vindictive decision made by their Mother. I miss my children dearly, not one day goes by without a thought about them.
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Why is it not public knowledge that some court orders can be overturned by the CSA as long as they have been in affect for 1 year and 1 day? And why does the CSA website have the wrong information.
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My ex husband is meant to pay me an amount of maintenance set out by the CSA for my son, he had never paid me regularly but when he had a child by another woman the CSA wrote to me and said because of this my payments will go down as he had left her also, why should My son and I suffer just because he decided to have children with another woman!!! He pays this other woman her weekly amount without fail every week but he only pays me mine every now and then, even though I ask him every week for it, I have contacted the CSA about this and they say there is nothing that can do, is there any point having an agency at all if they can never do anything to help !!!!
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I'm father of 2 very young boys. I do not get see them or have say on their upbringing or their emotional needs. I am ineffect annexed from their lives with the help of the state. The law as it stands,says i'm not fit to be a father but fit to pay for them financially.
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The CSA do have a role to play in society!!!
Unfortunately they do not know what that role is. I can understand how absent fathers can contemplate and sometimes actually go through with taking their own lives. Having been hounded by the CSA for the past 2 years. Even though I have a letter from them saying that I have overpaid. Despite numerous contacts with them I am still owed money, which I presume they are reluctant to take back from my ex-wife, for fear of upsetting her. It doesn't matter how much they upset me with letters requesting more money despite having over paid. They will not get my money back for me. When the name changes I suppose that I will still be hounded for further payments, but no doubt the overpayment will be lost in some move of office or database and I will be left out of pocket.
Sooner the courts are allowed to make decisions and the CSA have to stand by them the better.
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This programme failed completely to put the CSA in context. Too often, money issues are entangled with fights about when the paying parent can see their child. Until we get a fair legal system on parents and children after divorce and separation, no amount of tinkering with the CSA/CMEC will work. The Government clearly agrees. CMEC is not fundamentally different from the CSA: an unfair formula, the same staff, stronger coercion powers they are unlikely to use often, they're so draconian, and an impossible remit to fulfil.
CraigPi
London
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As a family law professional I have experienced first hand some of the injustices and problems experienced by mothers and fathers through the CSA. With that in mind, I have blogged about the CSA and how to deal with it. With confusion abound, I always seek to give clients clear and concise advise and the blog is a brief overview of how to do that.
The post can be found here http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/2008/09/18/the-csa-questions-and-answers---by-guest-blogger-rachel-baul/
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CSA it takes them 6months to get you any money. Then they hold on to it for 3 - 4 weeks every month making intrest on our money. If there are any changes it takes them 12 months to sort out, putting us in the arrears. You never talk to the same person twice. They need to get tuff on people who are paying for the up keep of the children. employed or self employed. Make the process quicker.
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Chamois007 - is that right? Does it work the other way too? When my husband approached the CSA to seek advice on whether his legal agreement could be overruled by the CSA as he would pay less if went through the CSA, he was told they needed agreement from both him and his ex-wife. If I understand you it means they can make you pay more but won't help you pay less?
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Just to add to my previous entry:
Today I receive a letter from CSA saying I am in arrears to the tune of £301.
I pay by standing order every month on 27th. Last month the 27th was a Saturday, so the payment came out on Monday 29th.
So it left my account on 29th, five clear days before it was due. Even if we allow three working days to get into their account, this suggests it is in some kind of holding account for several days.
I have never missed a payment, and straight away they send a letter about what happens if I don't pay this so-called arrears even though I am not in arrears.
This is yet another reason why arrears is exagerated.
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This will sound bad, but I am glad to see that I do not suffer alone.
I have not spoken to my ex in over twelve years, my son is now 15. I have been married now for over ten years and have two other children.
I was paying the CSA up until 2006 when they closed my case and gave me a nil assessement. I continued to contribute, presents, pocket money, camps etc.
The CSa got in touch this year and told me I owed £10,000 as my case had been "mistakenly" closed.
I am a civil servant therefore an "easy money"target. A deductions order was put in place, despite me setting up a seperate account for payments, and over £470.00 a month is being taken from me and my family, all for one child.
I have the support of two MP's and the Citizens Advice Bureau. They have admitted the deductions order was illegal,yet they haven't removed it.
The money they are taking is destroying me and my family, my other two children are suffering and to be honest I estimate that we will loose our house in the next few months. I have never avoided them, have worked all my life, never been unemployed, yet am being shafted.
I note with interest the comments by some of the former employees of this agency.
1. You should be able to make individual assessements.
2. You are messing with peoples lives and forcing decent hardworking people to loose everything they have worked for all their life, don't expect politeness.
You were so threatening and demanding to me and my wife that she ended up in intensive care with stress related asthmatic episode. it is infuriating that we find ourselves in this situation all because of mistakes made by the agency.
The Government needs to do something about this and soon. Good luck to you all, hopefully there are better times ahead.
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We would like to invite everybody suffering at the hands of the CSA to take a look at ;
www.afairercsaforall.co.uk
There is also a forum where you can obtain expert help, advice and support.
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This is a BBC site, 295 posts, no comment BBC? we are the licence payers, hello we are telling you something, listen please!
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Hello, BBC, RSVP!
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I wish that Government would be honest with the new rules that the new csa have.
I made a financial arrangement through the courts when I split from my ex wife. I have always paid this.
My ex wife is on benefits and the csa have forced me to pay to them what I have paid already over 7 years as they say I should have been making the payments to them.
The CSA have threatened me with: a suspended driving licence if I did not send them my earnings details, they have put a charge on my house for the so called "arrears" and if I make a missed payment they will put a forcement order on the house, so they will sell my house to get the money.
I am paying nearly £1000 per month, for one child. I am losing money every month by working and I have no choice now but to quit work.
My house will be sold, and myself, my new wife and her two children will be out of a home. I will face bankruptcy, but I have been informed by the CSA that under their new rules if I go bankrupt the debt to the CSA still stands.
When I was in court when they put the charge on my house the Judge confirmed to me that the courts no longer have any say over the CSA.
Dangerous times when a Government department becomes higher than the court of the land.
And what does my ex wife now get from my £1000 per month? £10 per week.
So how is this a Child Support Agency? The one person to miss out most is my Child.
It is actually a benfits repayment agency.
Just be honest.
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Hi Rogereve. do not just quit your job, the csa have this one covered. They will issue enforcement action straight away. Come to www.afairercsaforall.co.uk you will get advice and support.
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Isn't there a bigger problem here: where in a society women have more rights than men? Sounds harsh... but consider:
*most divorces end with the mother keeping the children
*some young women deliberately get pregnant to get a free home and benefits without the need ever to work
*in the european constitution it talks about if a man and woman of equal abilities apply for a job the woman MUST always get the job....
Now I'm all for making all absentee parents (by far men... if you get my point) pay towards their childs income fairly... but if these absentee parents were 50% men and 50% women wouldn't we all see the system (no matter what its called) more fair?
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Is no one concerned about the power given to this agency, whatever the name, to remove money from someones earnings or bank account. Who makes sure they are taking the right amount of money? Who makes sure they even have the right dad?
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The csa deal with all complaints against the csa with a csa complaints department, who are obviously totally impartial!!!! No one, not even the courts have any control over their actions. They are a modern day KGB except they only use mental torture, and it is state sponsered. How do we stop it, by standing together and saying enough is enough. And BBC, you have a duty to put the true story accross, we are still waiting for a reply, over 300 posts now, and still going. www.afairercsaforall.co.uk
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This August 2008 I had to attend court for the CSA and Family Court for redefined contact and I might add for the last time! You can only push someone so far, so congratulations the system has rendered me bankrupt insist I still pay and pay but too bad caring Dad you are not to see your children who tantalizingly pass my door each day on their way to school.
Far from being a poor, violent or uncaring father I have done all in my power to offer my children a seamless path from broken family to the security of a second family home and the stability of this being located close to the former family home and equal distance to both schools, this at great personal difficulty to me at the age of 50 to have to start again from scratch and thankfully with the support of my wife and family.
Yet the same family courts who granted access to me in 2004 will still allow the mother with her sickly smug smile to weald the big stick and say NO to contact, are the children’s interest being served? It is the courts not being able to enforce the perfectly good order designed to offer the same level of stability whilst the children are so young, and until they reach an age when they could decide which parent to be with. For me my children have reached that age, but the controlling mother will not release them from her shackles and even allow them to call on the phone or call in for tea on the occasional evening after school for a few hours, just to mend the bridges the mother has broken. This is the fundamental flaw with this law that allows the mother to abuse it, yet not be reprimanded in fact it empowers the mother to do just as she wishes whilst ‘cocking a snoot’ at the judge the social workers but above all the children she is meant to be acting as responsible carer for.
Consider this next time you ridicule a ‘Batman’ Character he is taking his plight out of the family environment what the mother do’s is from within and what long term effect this might have on vulnerable children. If my children return to me in a few years when in their late teens and say look Dad I have been steeling or involved in drugs or violence, would it not have been better for me to be there for them now to prevent them getting into trouble in the first place and be there to answer any query my children have no matter how trivial it may seem just to show there is someone with an answer. My own father never said ‘I don’t know’, if he could not answer my worries immediately he would not stop till he could and that kind of reassurance means a lot when you are young and especially today with all the peer and media pressure these kids are under on a day to day basis.
If this appalling law was reviewed and put right today it will still take a generation to put right the resulting social ills. Unless the family law courts decision is made inviolable there is no point in having a judge sitting in court in the first place!
The reality is there are some who have to live with the heartache knowing there is nothing more to be done the children are lost the home is lost the childhood is lost, you will never reclaim those lost years and the memories will not be made. The pain will be with you evermore and any future contact will be a grim reminder of what was lost at a time you could have saved it, now is that time but you cannot stop the passage of time and the happy memories I have of the time with my father will not be continued on in my own children. I have done nothing wrong not a monster but a loving caring Dad and the system has stolen the opportunity to help them through their formative years into adulthood.
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LadyBoxmoor.
The courts are not powerless. They choose not to enforce the law. A judge recently bucked the trend and sent a mother to prison, for failing to adhere to the terms of the contact order.
This judge seems to be one in a million, as most, if not all others will not enforce the rule of law by choice!
The law in the UK is corrupt and biased towards women in these cases.
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I am a mother and an absent parent, and the CSA are currently deducting money from my earnings to pay arrears of maintenance to my ex-husband, that I have previously paid, but he denies was paid voluntarily. The CSA are well aware of the situation and I have sought assitance from ICE, who are supposed to monitor them. The CSA have delayed responding to my complaint, which means that ICE cannot deal with it.
My daughter is actually 19 now and I am heartily sick of paying money to my ex-husband to enable him to go on holiday etc. whilst I struggle to pay my bills. Not one penny of the maintenance I have paid in accord with court orders and CSA requirements has ever been used for my daugther's benefit. I have regularly had to provide school uniform and study materials plus other clothes during contact visits.
Heather, Kent
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To Richard Dorset,
Yes the CSA place your payment in a holding account. (In theory) the idea was to collect all the money due by a certain time of the month, and then "flip over" from collections to payments.
However, the system appears to have been designed with a major flaw: whilst the CSA are very happy to delay payment, if your payment had not been credited by 09:00 on the day it was due, the system automatically generated a "non-payment" letter and re-calculated the arrears, usually generating an arrears letter. Then your payment would clear at 10:00 on the day, and the system would perform the same calculation again. Thus resulting in two letters issued on the same day, with conflicting information. The system also generates a letter to PWC saying there's been no payment this month.
When I'm talking about clearing, it's nothing to do with the banking system, it's the CSA's own system. Internally it's in different departments (e.g. collections department, payments department, enforcement department.) Like all government institutions, there is a total lack of communication internally. Essentially the collections department take your money and sit on it for two weeks, usually untill approx 19th of the month. Then they hand it over to the payments department on the day it's actucally due to be paid out. It's based on "just in time" delivery, but like all JIT systems, it doesn't work properly.
I know two things about this "system":
1) Given the letter issued to PWC, the system is designed to create animousity between the parents. (in my case PWC started denying visits, on the mis-information the CSA passed on)
2) Whilst the interest in 200 pounds for 14 days is not much, the interest on 2,000,000 pounds for 14 days is far greater. (That doesn't include what the CSA have "lost in the system".) Where does that interest go?
I have two major irratations with the CSA:
1) Regardless of my parental status, I'm a tax payer and I seem to be pouring vast sums of money into an inept and incomptetant system. (Nice idea, bad implimentation.)
2) During the opening year, I was constantly bombarded with "revised statements" whilst they tried to get to grips with a calculator. Regards of what you think of him, The Taxman works out if you've over- or underpaid your tax. If you've over-paid, he sends you a nice little cheque. If you've under-paid (for whatever reason) in most cases your tax code is adjusted and he collects the arrears in nice equal chunks (effectively: arrears divided by 12 equals repayments.) How easy is that? I child of four could tell you that. The CSA spent a year "recalculating" the "arrears" (the infamous: you're liable from now, but we won't tell you how much for four months.) During the repayment period (everything for 3 to 18 months had been "calculated") the repayment was all over the place. The most digsusting things were:
1) A recalculation on "last month's" payment, to which I was told on the phone "Oh don't worry about that."
2) I received a schedule in a November, doubling my payments in December and January. (You know, Christmas time.) When queried I was told "oh we thought we'd help you clear the arrears quicker" in a rather cheery voice.
3) If I pay (for example) 100 pounds, PWC and I were expecting 100 pounds to emerge at the other end, but on many occasions it would arrive in bits (e.g 60, 20, 20) but no-one could say why. Although it would appear that the individual "actioning" at the CSA office, seemed to take delight in adjusting things to cause maximum disruption and animousity between PWC and I. However, PWC and I had by this time joined forces and there was a lot of communication going on. The CSA cannot cope with the idea of both PWC and NRP working together.
PWC ended up complaining, getting compensation (maybe that's what the interest is for) and opting out of the system to a direct pay one. So far, I pay and PWC gets the payment 2 days later (bank transfer time). No complaints, no worries, no stress and no CSA. If anyone wants to audit, bank statements are available. lthough the parting shot from the CSA was "to make no payments untill we advise on the amount and dates". That was six months ago. Oddly neither of us has heard from the CSA since. I suspect someone will get round to informing me of some phantom arrears (oh yummy more "enforcement"), at which point both my and PWCs MPs will b involved, again.
One thing does make me chuckle though:
If they take away my drving license, I can no longer work. If I can no longer work, two things will happen:
1) My payments will go down
and, perhaps more importantly,
2) I'll be claiming benefit.
Just how does that benefit you the tax-payer, and, how exactly does that benefit my son?
Wasn't the point of the CSA to bring benefit to my son, without being a burden on the remainder of the tax-payers?......
RIP-CSA, no flowers, unmarked grave.
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Oh and to all "new" non-resident parents:
If you make any payment at all to parent with custardy, never ever ever do it in cash. Make a bank transfer. Have an independant (ie. Bank) paper trail.
It could save you a lot of grief, time and money in the future.
Trust on this one.
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www.afairercsaforall.co.uk
FREE ~ Information, advice and support for both parents, resident and non resident dealing with the CSA.
Your not on your own.
afairercsaforall are proud to support the 'End child poverty campaign.
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Please,please all you people suffering at the hands of this agency, go to
www.afairercsaforall.co.uk
follow links to petition,and sign.
PLEASE HELP US TO HELP YOU
We have requested the BBC put over the truth, in public interest. No response as yet.
Please help
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1.the first thing that needs to be proved is who are the parents by dna.
2.Then look at how much both parties are earning.
3.then look at both parties expenditures.
4.look at how both parents are going to grow this child with equal rights.
5.make sure both dna's of parents are on the birth certificate.
6.put a limit on when a claim can be made after birth or separation.
7.exclude new partners from eqaution.
8.only allow reasonable changes to make reassesment.exclude credit card bill,hire purchase etc any bills that the carer caused.
9.make all outgoing cost for the child accountable to the other parent and csa.with receipts and bank statements.
10.make any mother who lies about her circumstances be fined or imprisoned for fraud.
11.make fathers have full rights to access unless a court order has been setup.reasons sex offenders,violence,paedophile,rapist.
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I didnt see the program but im on the 40% old system, im typical of most i suppose, poorly assessed beyond my means to pay( in order to generate arrears it seems).Now left paying 120.00 a week which includes 22.00 arrears payment off my now accumulated 8,000.00. I just got a letter from the csa requesting more today as the rate im repaying my arrears back at is apparently suddenly "unsuitable". I have to say im lucky in that i should have just 4 years left but i feel as though ive suffered a kind of trauma at the hands of the csa, my life has been dramatically affected, i havent had hot water or heating in my house for 10 years as i could never afford it with what the csa leave me to live on . Lawyers advise me to go self employed or on the dole, the internet says get registered as a violent person for exemption or join the TA army so im better of letting the army train me to kill than live in peace as i do. I fix lots of computers free for people with limited knowledge in and out of work , i realise i could use this to go self employed and avoid paying but i refuse to pass my pain on to other people, this is where were going wrong as a species, we use each other to better ourselves but at what cost, the next person you exploit could be carrying the life saving kidney your going to need some day,
ive had a moan but i know there are many more of us in greater need than me and far worse off, i just wonder how long were prepared to stand for this treatment until enough is enough, we fought for our rights in the sixties, and France still does, come on
people lets stand together like we used to.
Thankyou
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The CSA will never work 100% and this is due to human nature. A fair few of non resident parents and these are not necessarily men, do not want to pay maintenance and even with the powers that the CSA or CMEC has they will do everything within their power to avoid paying. The CSA catches up with a NRP via the Inland Revenue and tries to take the money via his wages, so he moves jobs. Then the CSA has to go all through the same rigmarole trying to locate him again only for him to use the same trick again. Then there's the poor unfortunate NRP who willingly pays via his wages, every week the money is taken out of his wage and he can feel happy that his children are benefitting. Then one morning he gets a letter from the CSA saying that he's hundreds of pounds in arrears because his employer has been pocketing the money. So who's liable for the arrears? The poor NRP of course.
Sometimes the system does work iand in an ideal world it's a good idea, but what the politicians and senior civil servants up there in their ivory towers should realise is that we don't live in an ideal world, the real world is a totally different place.
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CSA waste of space. Replacement will be the same people failing to do the same job. Have had to deal with over 20 different people so far and they are all rubbish.
Yes I am an NRP and they messed up my voluntary payments, created arrears because they couldn't collect a direct debit (computer system), have attempted to get liability order against me (failed). They can't get their calculations right. Absolute muppets! Ignorant and stupid.
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I am all for dads paying to their children,PROVIDING ALL THE MONEY I PAY GOES TO MY CHILD!!,e.g i currently changed jobs and like the honest idiot i am decided to tell the csa where i was now employed,sent off the relevant info and sat back and expected them to do the job they are paid for,after 2 months i noticed that no money was being taken from my wages so rang up to find what was going on,they said its a "slow process" and "not to worry it will be sorted soon",anyway to cut a long story short after another couple of phone calls they sent me a letter happily informing me i was 750£ in arrears and they will be taking 450£ a month for the next 3 months+ out of my 1000£ monthly wages!!,i am now looking at being homeless for xmas and am thinking about "going on the run" from them.For the final kick in the knackers i know for a fact that my daughter recieves next to none of the money i hand over as my ex partner does not work....HONESTY IS NOT THE BEST POLICY WITH THE C.S.A!!!
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Firstly MOST not all women use the CSA to get at their ex partners for daring to move on with their lives !
I was an awkward ex wife whom would stop at nothing to get at him just because he dared to move on and I simply couldn't deal with it but hey here is the funny part I threw him out and had custody of his children so why should he have suffered !
With regards to the CSA an unfair biased system and I dont blame any man that quits his job because of them some men have taken their own lives.
I am a woman with 3 children, recently my ex husband and I changed to direct pay THANKGOD they have in the past ripped off my ex husband and I didn't see hardly any of the money he paid to them the only reason the CSA got involved in the first place is because I wasn't working when I threw my ex husband out.
My ex is now happily married and I am also happy in my relationship we have good communication and nothing to do with the CSA anymore.
CMEC/CSA LOL a joke !
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