Changes to international pages
Post categories: BBC News website
| 17:35 UK time, Wednesday, 10 June 2009
Across the BBC website we are making a change to the way we present content for audiences inside and outside the UK.
Up to now, people outside the UK who visited the website could select a UK version and those within the UK could select an international version of the site.
A radio button in the "set location" section at the top of the BBC homepage and on the left hand side of News and Sport pages allowed you to switch between versions.
From now on this won't be the case. The button is going, so if you are inside the UK you will simply see the UK version, outside the UK you'll see the international version.
But - and I'm resorting to italics here to stress this - all the same content will be available as now so you'll still be able to get both UK and international news wherever you are.
The UK front page of the News site will still have international stories amongst the headlines of the day, and of course the usual links to all the world sections of the site.
The international version will have links to all the UK sections, along with a new, expanded area for UK headlines. We're not taking away any of the content you can already see. You'll still be able to get to popular indexes like England, Scotland and Magazine by following the UK link on the section navigation at the left of the front page.
Here's how the change will affect the main BBC homepage - my colleague Ian Hunter explains:
"The new customisable BBC homepage at bbc.co.uk and bbc.com launched in February 2008. It was significantly different from the previous version and gave users the ability to shape content on the page to suit their personal interests. With this in place, there was less need to offer fixed editorial versions.
"The only significant exception is the main feature of the homepage (which differs between the UK and the rest of the world). Anyone abroad investing a few moments customising their homepage can set up a 'UK-flavoured' international page for themselves - not to mention one aligned more with their personal tastes and interests. Do you want the latest tennis results? Technology news? Great - we can do that too."
So why bother with the change? Because the option allowing you to choose "site versions" (which relatively few of you actually chose to use) has started to lead to some potentially frustrating experiences for you, as well as some significant technical complications for us.
One of the reasons for this is the growth in the amount of video and audio around the site which, with the "versions" set-up we've had in place so far, has led to a growing number of potentially confusing results.
For example, international users selecting the UK version might follow prominent links from front pages only to find messages saying things like: "Currently BBC iPlayer TV programmes are available to play in the UK only". (The BBC doesn't have the legal rights to show content on the iPlayer abroad though that may change in future).
Other content too may only be available to some audiences, for rights and legal reasons. Some sports coverage on the BBC, for example, is restricted to the UK, whilst the BBC World News TV channel is produced for international audiences.
The change also means that the advertising which you can see on our pages if you are outside the UK can be integrated around our pages without the need to change page formats for the UK version of the site.
We hope the change we're about to make will mean things are simpler all round. Front pages will be optimised for wherever you are, and content throughout the site should be simpler for us to produce and easier for you to find your way around.
UPDATE, 18:07, 11 June: Thanks for all your comments. Here are some responses to the main points you've been making:
Several of you mention customising pages - don't forget this only applies to the BBC Homepage where customisation has been an option for some time already. You can find out more about making changes to the BBC homepage here.
The News and Sport front pages aren't customisable in this way. But a simple way to get straight to the content you want (other than following the "UK" and "World" links on the left side of the page) would be to bookmark the page you want to visit most often - whether that is UK news, world news or another section of the site.
There is also now a dedicated UK headlines section on the international-facing News front page, so those of you looking for UK headlines from the front page internationally will see them there.
And, to repeat what I said in my original post, all the same content will be available as now so you'll still be able to get both UK and international news wherever you are.
For those of you with your internet access routed through a non-UK server (for example if you're in the UK and work for a company based overseas) you might look to our servers as though you are an international user, so you will see the international versions of pages. We recognise this may not be your preferred version, but there's the new UK headline section on the front page of the international version, as well as the link to UK news.
Some of you are saying you are viewing the website from within the UK on a UK connection and you can still see the international edition, in which case please use this form to let us know.
We really do need to make these changes to allow the site to work better, so we will try our best to work through and resolve the issues you are raising. Thanks again for the feedback, it is appreciated.
UPDATE, 17:29, 12 June: My colleague John O'Donovan has written about the recent (now resolved) issues affecting video/audio playback, the ticker and the picture galleries. You can read more and comment at the BBC Internet Blog.
UPDATE, 11:04, 13 June: Some users in the UK are seeing the international edition due to the way their internet provider connects them to the web. We are working closely with those companies on a solution to correctly identify which of their subscribers are in the UK and to serve them the correct edition.
More on customisation: some of you who have been using the ability to customise news, weather and sport by postcode from the UK front page will have lost that if you are outside the UK. Ideally, we would not have taken that away, it's just that it wasn't possible to maintain it and still carry out the changes we had to make. It was used by a relatively small number of you, but if you were one of them - I'm sorry, and please bear with us while we work on developing the site. We'll be looking at how to make the site customisable in other ways as part of that work.
UPDATE, 15:17, 15 June: There's a new post on the changes here.
UPDATE, 15:57, 19 June: The active post with open comments on the changes is now here.
Steve Herrmann is editor of the BBC News website.
Comments
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Hmmm.... First step to charging for the website ??
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Or making the 'BBC UK Website' only available to TV Licence Payers, in breach of agreements ?
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Makes sense to me. Simplifying user experience and reducing those complications for you - which in turn opens up what you can offer us. Seems fair enough.
I'm sure the swivel-eyed "it's an outrage" brigade (and the "I smells a left wing conspiracy" lot) will beg to differ though.
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This is all well and good. Unfortunately I work for a very large international company and depending on the load on our internal network I can "pop out" onto the internet either from a gateway in the UK or from one in Germany.
This means I will sometime get the UK pages and sometimes the non-UK pages and whether I get other content will be a very hit and miss affair
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Disappointing - was very useful when at a PC in airport lounge or hotel abroad I could immediately get to "top news from a UK perspective" - now will have to click through the links to get a more domestic perspective. Just a loss of convenience for those situations.
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I am a (Scottish) British citizen living outside the UK. I virtually never visit the BBC homepage (nor do I have any interest in customizing it), and instead always go directly to news.bbc.co.uk.
I like seeing 'Scotland' as a first-tier menu item on the left-hand side and will be very disappointed if, as I understand it, I will now always have to go via the UK section to access Scottish stories.
In addition, I actually tend to use CNN.com when I want an international focus on stories, and I specifically visit the BBC News site when I want a more UK-oriented perspective on the important issues of the day. I guess there are many British expats and former UK residents in the same boat as me (and this number is only likely to go up as the world becomes increasingly globalized), so this decision seems to me to be a clear backward step.
On another topic, whilst you say that you don't have the legal rights to show content on iPlayer abroad, this seems to me to be a bit of a sweeping generalization. I can't believe that there are any restrictions on, for example, your live broadcasting globally of FMQs at Holyrood or PMQs at Westminster, yet it appears that you refuse to make any live content (except streams of BBC World News) available from outside the UK.
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Quite disappointing, I like the ability to switch between versions, so I can read the news as if I was back home. I wish, wish, wish, the bbc could sort out these stupid licensing problems so that people abroad like me could pay to view all the same content and the iplayer as if in the UK. I'm sure enough people would be willing to pay and it would bring in more revenue than the Google Adsense.
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Actually, the more I think about this, the more wrong it seems. Unfortunately.
Geolocation is all well and good when it is required to meet content rights requirements or other legal obligations. However, that is really all it should be used for, particularly in the case of a public service organization like the BBC.
The above change seems to have nothing to do with content rights, or the BBC Charter, or any other legal issue, but is simply being made for technical convenience.
Is technical convenience really a good enough reason to cripple the site's functionality for a not-insignificant proportion of your user base - some of whom, as GreySquirrelMeister mentioned, are actually in the UK but accessing BBC News through a global company's non-UK addressed-network?
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You broadcast to Ireland for free. The Irish do not pay your licence fee.
I am English. I pay the fee. But I spend a lot of time abroad.
Now I cant see various items and broadcasts. And I can only see the Internationl version of your site.
Tell you what - I'll stop paying my licence fee and you can treat me as if I were Irish.
Fair?
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I too, never visit the bbc.co.uk front page. For news I got to news.bbc, and for radio 4 I go directly to /radio4. I am not interested in iPlayer content (I do wish you would use less video and more text) - even when I lived in the UK, I did not watch television - so that argument simply does not apply to me.
I do wish you would make it possible for ex-pats to pay to access all the content available to UK based users. For those who want iPlayer video, charge them the licence fee, and for those of us who merely want Radio 4, a smaller fee.
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The BBC needs to make much greater efforts in recouping revenue from non-UK based BBC website users.
You need to be charging those outside the UK for access to the BBC site, so that we can hopefully keep licence fee costs down for those of us at home.
An alternative to charging is to have advertising for those using the international version.
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"...as well as some significant technical [and legal] complications for us."
HA!
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This change is not helpful. It reduces choice. Why do you assume everyone accessing the BBC home page from within the UK wants the UK pages and all of us abroad the international version? That's a determination that's really not for you to make or that you even need to make on behalf of your readers, given that you have demonstrated the technical capabilities that allow us to make choices about what we want to see. Please think again. This is not a sensible decision, but one that typecasts your readership based solely on their location.
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This is really bad news.
I work in a large company in London and my internet connection is routed via Germany. This means I will get the 'international' version by default.
It's bad enough having to watch a 30 second advert before being able to view a news video, and seeing dubious google ads at the bottom of every page. And now I can't keep my preference for UK news.
I'm starting to wonder if there's no part of your site you wont sell adverts on?
Please reconsider this daft decision.
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Bloofs, there are already adverts on the BBC International site. Just like there are adverts on BBC channels broadcast abroad.
Don't worry, you're not paying for the wonderful job that the BBC does of being an ambassador for the UK.
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Bloofs, there is advertising for non UK users of the site. A short before video, some flash animations, and in the last couple of days Google ads have appeared. We don't have access to anything that the BBC licenses from other people (e.g. radio or TV drama, music archives, anything on iPlayer).
Effectively I get less now then I did when I lived in the UK, plus adverts. But as a non TV viewer, I paid no license fee then either. So in fact, I am contributing _more_ to the BBC (by having the advertising) than I did then, when I had full access to the website AND the radio broadcasts.
But as I say, I would happily subscribe to have an advert free site and full access to Radio 4. The TV you can keep.
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Can I please add my voice to those asking for this decision to be reconsidered, for two reasons:
1. I like being able to see the news from an international perspective, which tends to filter out domestic politics news (which I get elsewhere) and a lot of entertainment and other trivial news that doesn't interest me. I would largely cease using the BBC News website if I cannot get the news that interests me aggregated in a useful manner; being able to call up each section in turn is not an acceptable substitute, as it takes far longer and gives me no easy way to see if something new and important (in the wider world, rather than parochially) has happened.
2. Certain networks route internet traffic through other countries, or at least appear to do so. The fixed preference for the site scheme overcomes the problems caused by geolocation errors in this way.
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No, no, PLEASE don't do this. Every day I make sure my site is set to U.K. There is a *big* difference in the presentation. If I can't get to the British version, I have just lost much of my reason for using the BBC at all.
And if I am willing to deal with items "not available outside the U.K." why do you care about it?
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Dreadful decision, please reconsider
Some of us who happen to work outside the UK are prefer to use the UK version of the website.
The present set-up has worked for years, why change it?
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srtgray, to be honest I don't think international users should get any content *at all* from the BBC website unless they make some financial contribution. Sorry, but that's my view.
Yes it's true that if you have no TV in the UK you can still listen to the BBC radio and use the BBC site for 'free' (although there was once a radio licence back in the day) - and I agree this seems strange. This is why the licence-fee is an outmoded system. I personally would fund the BBC from taxation, but that's a whole other argument we're getting into.
The BBC is supposed to provide a public service for the UK, so even if you only listen to radio and use the website, we TV watchers can easily subsidise you to do that. I don't think we should subsidise people outside the UK to use the website though. While advertising to internationals is better than nothing, I would opt for a subscription fee, as this seems more in keeping with the BBC ethos anyway, although there are technical issues I suppose.
However we could always cut the salaries of people like J Ross and use the money to create a dedicated World Service website..... or is that too crazy an idea to consider?
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AlienLegal - glad to hear I'm not paying for the BBC to be an ambassador, thanks!
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Like so many others I do wish that you'd reconsider this. I'm primarily based in the UK, but every now and then I do like to be able to flick to 'International Version' to get a quick digest of the major international news events. I do not want to have to trawl through each individual area as it'll take far far longer.
Then there are times when I'm out of the country, sometimes for a month or two, and I like to be able to use the 'UK Version' since I'm only gone temporarily and news 'back home' is still important to me. I don't want to have to read an entirely UK only page and a separate international page, I want access to a mix of both.
From the sound of it I could theoreticaly set up the homepage (which I only ever visit by accident; if I want news, Radio 1 or iplayer then I go there directly) to vaguelly filter my news, but a filter is too inflexible. I want your judgement of when an international/technology/health/entertainment/etc news item merits being put on the News front page, not a pre-selected option that means I'll never see another entertainment story again. Sometimes they will interest me.
It might be a bit of hassle with the video streams, but that's a minor irritation that I would happily put up with (though I'm sure it can't be too hard to get around, I can think of a number of possible fixes myself). Often-times they do work, and if they don't it's not a big deal as long as the articles are still there (since they're why I come to the website, the videos are just added frippery). If the arguement is that the change won't affect many people, then it just works against you, since the 'technical issues' won't be affecting many people either, probably mainly ex-pats or people on holiday, who would understand why the content was unavailable.
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As with many other 'commentors', when I'm abroad I like to be able to select the UK version of the site so that it appears as it does when I'm in the UK. I don't want to have to spend time customising it to look like the UK version. I've also worked in companies whose internet connection is routed through Europe so the ability to select the UK version was very useful then.
Please reconsider?
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This is a terrible idea. I pay a licence in the UK but I often have to go abroad and suddenly I am not entitled to see the content because my computer shows that I am abroad. When I saw this blog I hoped that the BBC had finally figured out a way to give licence payers access to the full BBC site. Instead the BBC has figured out a way to give us less access. This is truly crap and a big disappointment. Who do you think reads the bbc news pages more than Brits abroad???? No really, who is your target market? This is really bad news and a truly rubbish development. Thanks for nothing BBC
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A lot more palatable if it were clear HOW to do the following:
"Anyone abroad investing a few moments customising their homepage can set up a 'UK-flavoured' international page for themselves - not to mention one aligned more with their personal tastes and interests."
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While you're at it, PLEASE, oh please make outside links open in a new browser page. It's so irritating to click on a link and then lose the BBC page you were on because the link you have opened turns out to be interesting.
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I like and occasionally use the option to look at the international version. It helps me to understand the bias in UK interests and see if we're missing anything completely.
If "all the same content will be available as now" it's difficult to see how the "frustrating experiences and technical difficulties" will be eliminated. If this is not a credible motivation we need to look for another.
Chinese censorship is crude; achieved by denial of access. The British always were more subtle. It's enough to bury an undesirable item at the foot of page 9, say, or mis-spell or otherwise mangle the link, or simply to release the item at the same time as more exciting news appears.[been there, tried that]
I hope such editorial censorship won't occur, even by accident, because it would damage the BBC at home and ultimately would be counterproductive - there are other news services and there's nothing like a secret to attract the media!
Bring back the button.
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Please don't do this. I rely on BBC news as one of my world news sources, along with CNN, and the International Herald Tribune (New York Times), both of which have local and international versions of their websites. I am from abroad but spend quite a lot of time in the UK. While I am here I do not want predominantly UK news just because I am here at the time, I want the same international news that I get from anywhere in the world. A change in my location doesn't change my taste in the news I read. Removing this feature takes away a basic choice for millions around the world that rely on your website to know what's happening in the world.
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As an expat I rely on the BBC news to keep me updated with both home news and international news (I live in the US and we all understand how bad the international coverage is here). I would prefer the option to switch between home and international sites still please.
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29 comments so far, and 100% against the new scheme.
As an IT professional, I have to agree that customization of the site based on source IP address is a bad idea. As a reader of the site, I have to agree that I prefer the ability to choose International or UK versions. I too only visit the BBC home page by accident, and find it very frustrating trying to find my way back to the 'news.bbc.co.uk' site.
I would much prefer if the BBC would concentrate on getting the new "features" of the website right before making more changes. Get rid of the new "map-based articles" applet, which doesn't work right in my browser (I use prism/webrunner). And bring back the old "in pictures" format! It boggles my mind that whoever developed the new version thought it would be a good idea to superimpose the captions over the picture. Now I have the choice to read the caption OR to see the whole picture. Why on earth was this done? There is plenty of vertical space! Bad enough that there are now mystery meat picture navigation buttons, or that the pictures wrap around instead of ending, as they should.
Failing that, please spend your money on improving the quality of the reporting, which I feel has been dropping in recent months. Stop trying to use every latest fad technology, and get back to the business of honest, objective and factual news reporting.
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This is a bad idea.
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This is not a good idea at all. Rather than saying "resticted to the UK" visa-a-vie Football Commentary (something we always had on the Radio World Service 30+ years ago and is now restricted), you choose to not even tell us it is there! This is double descrimination and restriction. After living outside the UK for 34 years I still really on the BBC for a massive part of my news and information, global news and Football, do not start to cut us off. Please!
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A really lousy proposal on your part. As an exp-pat in the US, I have had this site set as my home page for years, precisely because I wanted the news with a UK slant. If I'd wanted a non-UK perspective, I'd have set it to CNN.
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I live in Shanghai and an easier way to set the homepage weather forecast to the locality would be good. I am interested in having a frontpage with local Shanghai weather but also local news from back home.
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This makes me angry. You're trying to subvert the Internet. You shouldn't be making assumptions based on the source IP address of the client - if I'm reading your site from a shell account in Detroit, that does not mean I'm not in the UK. What next, a special version for people with IPs you _think_ are in China? Bans on accesses from http proxies in order to stop people using web-anonymisers? Please just stop it, or start your own version of the Internet based on whatever principles you think it should work by, if you don't like the principles the Internet has worked on up to now.
Only a few people actually exercise their right to free speech, does that mean it's ok for the Government to take it away, and such a change won't have any impact on society?
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So the BBC has a remit to broadcast the UK's perspective globally through the world service.
It also let's UK viewers that don't pay a TV license watch iPlayer.
However when it comes to ex-pats who just want to see a site with a UK bias as they wish to stay informed about events back home, it is now too complicated.
Give us all a break!
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It's a conspiracy. You want to charge us! Or subvert us! Or make us customise our homepage! Or make us navigate further (the small minority of us, well not me, but those who do)! Or control the internet! Or just do it for the seemingly sensible and straight forward reasons given (!)
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... "The change also means that the advertising which you can see on our pages if you are outside the UK can be integrated around our pages without the need to change page formats for the UK version of the site" ....
Which we can see on your pages eh? What makes you think we want to see advertising in the first place? Do we have a choice? I complained bitterly when it first started to appear in small doses and was fobbed off with meaningless drivel. I fear the worst for the BBC when hype stories like this emerge.
Carry on at your peril editors, for you will surely lose your "international" followers on this point alone.
Could do much better with a little more application, 4/10
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Typical BBC Arrogance towards many faithful expats who want to keep in touch with home and what is happening there. Personally I don't care about being able to watch TV shows or some other content. I can use the BBC iPlayer to listen to Radio 4 or 5live. However, I do like to see the UK Content upfront when I sign in and be able to go to the UK Sites that I like. If I am travelling and visit an internet cafe, I get annoyed when I get the International version because I'm not seeing what I want to see. Keep something that is good and lets not have to click all over the place to see what we want to see. I don't suppose this comment will be treated seriously or read by the "Editors"
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The only problem with removing the button is that sometimes I like the English version because it includes the education section which isn't available on the international website. As a Yank, it seems funny to me that you would have two websites, one for the English and one for the rest of us heathens. It reminds me of a scene in Mary Poppins when George Banks explains to his boss that the tea (thrown overboard during the Boston Tea Party) was unsuitable, EVEN for the Americans!
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I am posting from Canada and I love reading BBC News. However I do not like the proposed changes. I primarily visit the BBC News website to get UK news and British perspectives. Although BBC has good international coverage, I mostly use Canadian websites to get world news. I set the BBC news site to the 'UK' version because I want to see what the important stories in Britain are (both local and international). I realize the same content will only be a couple of clicks away, but for a quick overview of the big headlines etc and to see what news events are important in Britain, it will be easier to just go to the Guardian or another paper's site.
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Another expat chiming in here to say that I vastly prefer being able to read the UK version of the site and that you shouldn't be making these kinds of choices for your readers. The argument that all the same content will be available is somewhat bogus because you know perfectly well that reading the news is as much about seeing what editorial/presentation decisions have been made about individual stories as it is about the content of any given story.
I come to the BBC news site because I want to see what the editors think the news agenda, top story etc. is in the UK on any given day. I want to see the editorial decisions that weigh domestic and international news against each other from a UK perspective. If that's obscured or no longer available then there's very little reason for me to come here over other news outlets.
I get the technological problems. They seem to be a symptom of the wider problem that the BBC still hasn't figured out how to deal appropriately with international demand for its output. I know that BBC News may not have a lot of control over this bigger licensing issue, but putting readers into the International Version ghetto on the basis of IP address is still disappointing.
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Pointing out the obvious.
Why not:
1) news.bbc.co.uk - gives the UK version.
2) news.bbc.com - gives the international version.
Regardless of apparent visitor physical location...
Adverts can be run with flawed IP geo-location technology as is - and the tech savvy will continue to block them as is.
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You wouldn't use the colour of my skin to discriminate against me based on my probable country, so what makes it OK to discriminate against me based on another superficial attribute indicating my country - my IP address?
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Good to see bbc surveys are actually read by someone!! As an international user I was getting frustrated constantly being told I was not allowed to view content, hopefully this will now be rectified!
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very unhappy with this change. . . . it's totally uk- london-centric. . .
i'm living abroad and value being able to have the UK-version, so i can share the information and experiences of friends and relatives in the Uk. . . .
i have plenty of other ways to get international news if and when i wish. .
also, my internet connection is a bit slow so i very rarely watch video or listen to audio . . . i want quick, accessible written stories and that (more or less) is what you've been providing. . .
this is certainly a huge step backwards for me. . . . .
tudor from Aqaba in Jordan
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Whingeing British Expats - return to the UK if you want a diet of parochial politics and the antics of Brit celebs.
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As I'm abroad, I realise I'm probably a minority, but I wonder does this mean I won't be seeing everything? You say that those abroad may currently navigate to pages where we can't access the content - I really don't mind because short of an actual iplayer video I can still read the story/transcript, listen to clips
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I pay a licence fee.
I am often abroad.
Your Geolocation approach prevents me from accessing content I have paid for.
I am not offered a discount.
This is content you are apparently offering for free to the Irish.
Sort it OUT! This issue is around too long with no result. Just have to admit you got it wrong when using geolocation to exclude people.
Don't start fiddling with the website till you have got you act together.
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This is a really terrible idea, most likely cooked up by a bunch of BBC managers who all probably live within half a mile of White City. I have a house in the UK, I pay council tax on it and a TV licence too, even though I'm barely there to justify it as I work in Geneva during the week. It's bad enough that you can't give me WHAT I PAY FOR whenever/wherever/however I want it but now you're going to make it miles more difficult for me. I suppose you'll justify it with some "oh but we've done some research and this is what people want". What a load of guff. The sooner the licence fee is swept away and some proper user tax (or advertising - God knows, there's enough of it on the bbc.co.uk/news website version I see here in Geneva) the better. You lot really are so totally out of touch. What a complete shower.
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I live in the UK (& pay the licence fee), but I really value the BBC news website as a source of international news. There are plenty of papers that cover UK stories, but the BBC is my favourite source for international news, and I am more interested in what is happening in other countries than the endless celebrity drivel and political bickering that UK news tends to be filled out with.
The lack of an 'international' option will severely reduce the usefulness of the BBC news website to me.
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I live in UK but I work in Europe. This means from day to day I move around. Uptil now I have been able to leave my laptop set to the same settings and enjoy a bit of consistency in my life. Now you have, for no apparent reason, changed that.
As other people have stated, it look likes the preface for a membership and charging scheme.
This would be accepted by most people based in UK but who travel and who are also sports fans as long as the full BBC programming is available. Those of us who pay UK licence fees but who get rubbish messages about rights agreements once we cross the channel finish up in screaming frustration at the way that we are treated by the BBC, would quite happily join a "club" to be able to listen to your full output.
Unless of course it is sheer bloody mindedness on your part or, God forbid, you are practicing good old fashioned censorship
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Barely a single positive comment here but I don't suppose that makes any difference to you does it?
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I can't blame the messenger, since this looks like something that came from corporate. However, the announcement comes across as "spin," and the change appears to me to be designed for the company's benefit, rather than for the website users. In other words, it will prove to be a major inconvenience for anyone used to the original site design. Why is it that IT people always assume different is better? In this case, it's not.
But if it's any consolation for the disappointed fans of the original configuration, I believe in karma. In my universe, that means the BBC evildoers who are about to commit havoc in the digital universe will one day get their comeuppance. May your tires go flat, your winkies go limp and your wives, girlfriends, boyfriends, et al., dump you for someone wealthier and better-looking.
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Very disappointing. Hope the decision will be reconsidered!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Maybe as a technologist I have different views to most other posters.
The Midland 20: I live in Holland and get BBC 1,2 TV coverage (as well as numerous other international stations like ZDF and Canvas), but like the Irish I still pay a local license fee (which is more expensive than you pay for the TV License fee and you have better content) which also contributes to these channels being available.
I think people are being a bit over-reactive on this, as the customisation of the web pages becomes more mature the web pages will become more intuitive to your requirements. And as always the BBC must keep moving forward to keep the site easy to use and I think this is change will be good. If you ever look at some of the archive pages, at the time you thought they were good and now you think how quaint.
Like a lot of other people my work connection may or may not be going through the UK, but as you get use to the new way, you probably wont notice the difference.
For those in the UK, who travel, why not either invest in a HDD or use I-Player when you get back, or you could set up your home network in a way that you can use that to see your TV live or via i-Player whilst you are travelling. It is not up to the BBC to meet all of your requirements.
kennethmac2000: If you rarely visit the BBC website, why should your view be counted? I use this site for various reasons as an international user most days of the week, and have switched easily between the UK and International versions. Its not that difficult.
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I have always headed straight for the BBC news when overseas when the internet was available. This past ten months it has increasingly become unusable to all but the most determined.
I would open each interesting headline from the news feed in a new tab, then turn to page and click a link if I saw one of interest then on to another tab while that page down loaded. All of that came to an end this year with the huge increase in advertising (the same two adverts over and over again) it is torture to get through the news.
The international version of the BBC news has become an unusable and unreadable maze of dead ends. Almost every page has an advertisement that after waiting for it to download.......it plays.......then while you wait and wait for the news in the headline..........nothing. The video content takes over and each page is a noisy useless piece of junk. I gave up and use Google news now while abroad, but steer clear of the BBC links.
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How, if this change occurs, will people in or with a UK IP number access the international radio or TV pages, it's obviously not occurred to those within the BBC that many people have legitimate reasons to do this - just another example of why your 'solution' is nothing but an example of the BBC taking the easy option, whilst pigeon-holing everyone. Also, as others have said, some ISP's and international companies have IP numbers outside the UK allocation, how so you propose to give them access to their 'correct' content if the end user can't manually select it, what about holiday-makers and business travellers wanting to access their bought and paid for UK version whilst abroad and thus on a non UK IP number?
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DON'T ERECT NATIONAL BARRIERS IN CYBERSPACE!
The BBC must reconsider this! It seems that almost everyone who has commented dislikes the idea and the BBC should not force this change on licence payers just because giving users the current choices is inconvenient for the BBC.
I use the current structure all the time as I want to see news in order of importance, international news first then the more mundane national stuff.
The whole idea of the proposed changes are nonsense and run counter to the ethos of the web which is an international place. The BBC should not be erecting arbitrary national boundaries in cyberspace! Sort out the small minded licensing problems instead!
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I agree this is a very disappointing move. I am a UK citizen but spend a lot of time both working within and outside of the UK. Not only do I regularly switch between versions when I am outside the UK but also I often switch the the International version when I am in the UK. This is not least because I find it almost impossible to escape the bombardment of so many trivial 'home' news stories that are given priority on the UK site, above so many more important international stories. Let's get a bit of global perspective here - there are so many extreme situations happening in so many countries around us and the BBC tabloid website believes we would rather hear about a bit of politica, educational or religeous scandal from 'home', while in the mean time we can not access the information about immense situations of suffering or international concern. People in other countries are humans too, we should be told about them just as much as people from UK. The stories should be prioritised according to the seriousness of the event, not where it is!! The second reason I switch away from the UK BBC site sometimes is that the video content pieces take so long to load with their advertisements and then many of them don't even present useful, edited information. They often mean a newspiece is left with the uniformative video and very little useful text. I find text, photos and a few well presented illustrations a far more efficient and accessible way to read the news on the web - please do not replace quality news content with half-commercial un-edited videos. The videos could be an addition, but should never be a substitute for text/ photos.
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#57
"i think people are being a bit over-reactive on this, as the customisation of the web pages becomes more mature the web pages will become more intuitive to your requirements."
How does a remote IP sniffer know what MY requirements are, only I know what MY requirements are...
"And as always the BBC must keep moving forward to keep the site easy to use"
What a load of rubbish, many of the easiest pages to use on the internet are those that have not'moved forward' (and here I mean they still use HTML 2.0 never mind the "web 2.0" hype), OK the pages might be dull and boring to some but all the information is there and it's accessible.
"For those in the UK, who travel, why not either invest in a HDD or use I-Player when you get back, or you could set up your home network in a way that you can use that to see your TV live or via i-Player whilst you are travelling. It is not up to the BBC to meet all of your requirements."
Why should they, and as for the iPlayer, what if the content has expired by the time they return, what if the streaming content is topical - such as the already mentioned PMQs?
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Nick, be nice if there is some feed back on these comments, almost all seem to be against these changes - many giving good reason.
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Is this perhaps really about advertising-the last reason you mention? I'm an American living in the UK, and while I really value the BBC news as one of the better sources available, it's frustrating to only ever read news which is important to those in the UK. I use the international version here because I feel it gives me a good perspective on what's really important in the whole world. If you take away the international version option I'll be switching to CNN international or Reuters. I really hope the BBC will consider changing its mind though. I suppose if only a few of us care, it won't make a difference...money plus the majority rules our world.
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Well said, kennethmac2000!
As a 62 year-old England-escapee I finally learned never to trust my fellow Englishmen. Neither do I trust the BBC (or EBC! - English Broadcasting Company!) either.
When changes are made in this world it is NEVER for "anyone's benefit" but simply for money! The BBC had long-ago already resorted to the gutter-behaviour of advertising and geo-location allows them to further 'refine' that.
Well, I don't need it Mr BBC and Mr England, I only use the BBC sites to confirm my expectations of the constant screwing-up that England does. England's political, legal, educational and health systems that are third-rate compared to that of any other nation. Scotland has far better professional and educational establishments and she was sensible to rid her 'dross'. Sadly, the English imported and elected it into government. What a stupid country.
Goodbye, Mr BBC.
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Not very convenient for british people living overseas.
To be honest there aren't THAT many differences between the two pages, but viewing the international page doesn't give you the same FEEL for what news is big in the UK.
For example, viewing the international news page I'd never have known that the expenses scandal was such a big story, as it only showed up a little. But on the UK homepage it was much more prominent.
I never use the personalised homepage, as i often access from lots of different PCs.. but for me its very useful to be able to switch between views. Sometimes i want an international view.. sometime i want to know what's going on back home.
Not the end of the world, but disappointing...
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Add me to the chorus of those who do not like this change at all. I'm still a British citizen, although I haven't been back to England since the only time it won the World Cup (1966), living in the U.S. since 1960.
The BBC Home Page is definitely something I use and see every day, since it shares my Google Chrome opening page tabs with The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal and the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC English-language).
¶ Note that both The Journal and The New York Times, two of the BBC's leading competitors on the Web, both offer readers a choice of using their U.S. or international editions. In fact I stick to the U.S. editions of both, but at present my BBC tab is set to UK version because that's usually what I want more detail about (e.g. Northern Ireland, the local and European elections, or some political crisis). However I also look at the international stories on the BBC because it usually has a different mix than a U.S. site would give. And I want the option of switching to the international version when the British news is just too parochial or narcissistic (the McCanns, Survivor, Britain's Got Talent), or when the foreign news is more pressing and in need of an a non-American perspective. On the other hand, when the main international news is American-oriented (Federal elections, Wall Street, the war on terror, the World Series) and much-better-covered by the American sources I've already seen, so I'd want to switch back to UK Version. And I want to have that easy switchability (in about two clicks and two frames), rather than having to re-set a whole bunch of permanent preferences, à la Yahoo!
¶ As for whining about who pays a licence fee, consider that almost every other major web site is still free (although this is killing the U.S. newpaper industry at a frightening rate), from al-Jazeera to Ha'aretz to Radio Netherlands International to the CBC to the Guardian International to most of the general-interest content of The Wall Street Journal. The General Overseas Service was originally seen and funded (like the British Council) as something that aided British foreign policy and goodwill towards Britain while maintaining [in theory and usually in practice] editorial independence and credibility.
And while the question of distribution rights is a real one (it was frustrating following the British Olympic coverage because so little was viewable through the BBC, while NBC Sports was offering hundreds of hours of free footage), the advertising question is, I think, moot. Although my browser's usually set to the UK version, I still see advertisements that are definitely for the U.S. consumer (sometimes for viewers in my own state or city), rather than ones for Tesco, The Daily Mirror or W.H.Smith, let alone the football pools.
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As a dedicated international viewer this doesn't affect me much, but I would like the choice.
However with the limited and expensive satellite-fed bandwidth we have in darkest Africa, I would like a lot less embedded video in the news content. I can still read, and enjoy it, so these compulsory videos slow me down to a crawl and annoy me immensely.
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I live in Switzerland and use the international (Worldwide) Newspage. I have never seen any ads anywhere on BBC pages ;-)
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Blimey, what a bunch of moaning whatsits you lot are.
First, you CAN - repeat, CAN - watch things like PMQs from outside the UK - I'm in the UAE, and just watched it (briefly). The same should go for most BBC News reports, etc - just on the BBC News page, not iPlayer.
Second, the overwhelming number of people here seem to be British expats - like myself - or business travellers/holidaymakers moaning about not having the UK version.
Here's a thought - why not make the UK News section (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/default.stm) your home page? Then that gives you the main UK stories, and none of that foreign rubbish.
If you care so much about having a mix, then why not do as Steve Hermann suggests, and spend a moment customising the bbc.co.uk homepage? The BBC IS giving you options to see what you want - if you're not prepared to use them, then that's your problem.
Personally, I like the international version of the site - and so, I suspect, do the many, many, many millions of people out there who are NOT UK expats, and who want to see the international version of a site that offers them a perspective on events they may not otherwise have access to.
Like it or not, the web has moved on from basic, static pages - I think this is a good thing, others will quite reasonably disagree. However, it does mean we are all in a position to get a more customised experience - but this requires us to work a little bit for it. It is literally impossible for the BBC or any other major website to please everyone, and give each individual exactly what they want.
Get over it, and help yourselves for a change, instead of expecting other people to do it for you.
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#66
"To be honest there aren't THAT many differences between the two pages, but viewing the international page doesn't give you the same FEEL for what news is big in the UK."
Indeed, and the same can be said with regards to being in the UK and knowing what the big stories are in the world, away from UK centric media-celebs and the other non stories that so often headline the UK edition of the BBC news web-page. Someone called the UK version 'Tabloid', I have to agree, often I turned (for now the changes have been made despite the just criticisms offered here) to the international version just to get away from the mind-numbing, gutter-lapping content that is being served to us as the 'important stories of the day' - for example, when this blog was first published the international version of the business section lead with the Chrysler take over whilst the UK version lead with what is basically a sports/media story about the pay-to-view broadcaster Setanta.
Typical BBC arrogance, time for the licence fee to be scrapped, time that they arrogant (and faceless people) within the BBC lost their tax payer funded assured jobs and pensions etc...
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I'm in the UK but, when accessing the BBC news website from work, I'm often prevented from viewing UK content. Our internal company IP addresses have been set up in such a way that, if presented to websites, they identify us as being in Brazil and some content is blocked. With these new changes, are we cgoing to be constantly presented with content from Brazil now? Just leave things as they are.
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I spend much of my time in Germany and I often use the International version to see world events but I also switch back to the UK version for various reasons. One of the main ones is that you are presented with different topics on 'Have your say' when you are on the UK version.
Leave things the way they were!!
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Just where did the discussion about license payers come from? - it was not in the original piece?
Like many other people in the UK my internet connection surfaces in another country - at home I appear to be German, work made look Italian or Dutch and occasionally from the USA - this is the big failing with IP based geoloction and international service providers.
If a cynic I might think that the absence of the version button is more about forcing overseas people to see the paid for ads than custom content.
Oh, and my UK gripe as non-license payer (no TV for me!) is that news content with embedded live TV forces an unsolicited violation the terms of not having a license (no access to internet live broadcasting)... so that means I give up on reading the news site
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So we are now sitting on 70+ comments and, apart from one or two people who don't seem to understand the full implications of exactly what is being proposed, everyone is against this change!
I think Glaistig made one of the most salient points in this whole discussion, when he said:
"I come to the BBC news site because I want to see what the editors think the news agenda, top story etc. is in the UK on any given day. I want to see the editorial decisions that weigh domestic and international news against each other from a UK perspective. If that's obscured or no longer available then there's very little reason for me to come here over other news outlets."
The original post from Steve Herrmann simply doesn't address this issue.
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And here is an example of a page with video content that appears to be unnecessarily restricted to UK users...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8092624.stm
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I live in the UK but I make sure news.bbc.co.uk is always set to the international version on each of the computers I use so that I get less-UK-centric view and instead see the news stories that are important to the whole world. It's gonna be a shame to lose this top-level view.
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70. At 09:59am on 11 Jun 2009, eliotbeer wrote:
"Blimey, what a bunch of moaning whatsits you lot are.
First, you CAN - repeat, CAN - watch things like PMQs from outside the UK - I'm in the UAE, and just watched it
Err, that's almost 24hrs after it took place, people were commenting on live streaming, can you watch it live via the web?
"Here's a thought - why not make the UK News section (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/default.stm) your home page? Then that gives you the main UK stories, and none of that foreign rubbish."
That is the problem, now that the change has been made they can't, if they access the BBC via a non UK IP number they have to use the the '.../1/...' switch due to the IP# sniffing whilst those accessing via a UK IP# has to use the '.../2/...' switch regardless of their own personal (domicile) locations.
"If you care so much about having a mix, then why not do as Steve Hermann suggests, and spend a moment customising the bbc.co.uk homepage?"
Because most people don't use a 'Home page', what about those who access via web cafes (or universities, do the BBC have an exception for educational IP numbers?...) etc. whilst away and want to catch up on the news back home whilst - perhaps - checking their personal Hotmail, Google or ISP web-mail accounts?
"Get over it, and help yourselves for a change, instead of expecting other people to do it for you."
Err, I suspect that those who are complaining are those who have moved on, they don't want nor need, their hands holding...
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Geo-location is all well and good until you are whisked away to a site and language you do not want and may not understand. This raises many issues like - if I am in the UK and bookmark a page with media content, will I be able to view this outside of the UK. Reading in between the lines it looks like "No". If someone has paid their licence fee then there are secondary conditions being placed upon the payment that limits access to 'paid for' materials. How is that going to be addressed?
Personally, I am not too concerned as it is still simple and possible to circumvent this. If it works for me I will use it. If it does not I will simply not click into it. For me, I find it irritating and a total waste of bandwidth to click on a story only to find it is a video link that I do not particularly wish to view. yet it still loads. Wrong, wrong, wrong.
I am sure the nay sayers will moan due to adversity to change and I see that they already are. Where I am concerned is that information is being selectively delivered based upon your location. This, however it is nicely worded and wrapped up, is one form of censorship and somewhat disturbing.
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I travel regularly, I am one of the 'few' that always clicks UK version when abroad. I really don't mind coming across the 'problems' of seing a link that is not available to my region. Yes, I have already customised the BBC homepage to suit my UK preferences. Simply, I believe taking the choice away is a negative.
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How does it remember my preferences? Doing it with cookies is useless because I regularly clear all cookies from my browser for security reasons and because I object to my browsing habits being tracked by some organisations for their commercial gain. So it looks as though I'll be stuck with the default because resetting preferences every time is going to be a pain. While I was away in the US it was good to be able to trivially view the UK-centric version of the news so I could keep up with the home interest. I think you should still provide some easy links to set one or two common default customisations to mimic previous behaviour of the site.
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There is a site which for £5 per month offers access to BBC iPlayer [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]. It gives you a secure UK internet access.
I agree that it is very anoying to have to miss certain features just because you are for a short period of time abroad.
One solution to the problem of licence fee is to have a login ID that is based on the licence that we pay in the UK and so this will sort the problem of people being away abroad.
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#74
"Just where did the discussion about license payers come from? - it was not in the original piece?"
Because many licence fee payers will, due to either travel or work-place IP numbers, now be prevented from accessing UK content editorial (the rights issues are another subject) that they have paid for!
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Damn, I always set the front page to "international", I found it much more interesting then the boring news of the UK falling apart slowly.
Ah well, guess Yahoo will do.
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#65
Goodbye then Mr Moaner! We won't miss your stuck-up attitude. Thank you for creating more room in this country for people who actually WANT to be here.
Goodbye Mr Moaner!
---
Coming back to sane reality, I do not mind this change. As has been pointed out before, the UK news section is still available at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/default.stm and so the same content is still available - just not all on the news homepage. And the BBC homepage can still be customised, so why not use that?
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The likes of eliotboy who say we are expat whingers is not reading the majority of posts, which are from UK licence fee payers who happen (a) (like me) to find themselves abroad for holiday or business from time to time or even regularly; and (b) those whose companies (like mine) to have foreign IP addresses - my company's IP address seems to indicate I'm in Sweden.
As a LICENCE FEE PAYER I don't see why I shouldn't get access to the content I want IN THE WAY I WANT IT. That's the whole point of BBC Online, it was content "whenever, wherever, however" you want it. All the BBC trails for, for instance, news, say "online, on digital, on air...." blah blah - but the reality is that the BBC is making lazy, general suppositions about where we are and how we want our content - without, I suspect, having done sufficient research.
It's quite clear to me that the BBC can't continue to demand a licence fee if it can't continue to provide me with the ability to get access to content as I want it.
Period.
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Very sad about this. What I really want is to be able to get the regular news broadcasts. Noon, six, and 10. I would gladly pay to be able to do this. When I looked into what was available through real networks sometime ago - I found it worthless. How about just allowing us to pay for access? While I now live in the US - I do pay taxes in the UK and value being able to keep up on what is going on. Not being able to get the "real" BBC news, leaves me feeling quite cut off.
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Why have we been given such a short amount of time between the publication of the editors' decision and the website actually changing? This seems embarrassingly rushed and ill-considered. I for one am disappointed about the fact I can no longer access the International version whilst in Britain. I can get UK-centric news from the radio and TV (which is becoming increasingly blinkered as time passes) but what I would like is an international perspective. By limiting our choices you're making an increasingly insular British public all the more so.
And on a bit of a tangent, any chance you could improve the Europe section of the website? Rumour has it we are still a part of the EU but judging by how long some reports remain up there, you'd think the BBC only got the occasional dribble of information by a process of Chinese whispers in conjunction with pigeon post from somewhere in the outer reaches of the South Pacific.
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I'm an expat in Germany, and I enjoy keeping up to date with the UK content/news as much as I can.
I currently have news.bbc.co.uk open in two browsers - one with the German/international version and one open under a VPN connection showing the UK version.
Selecting the "UK" menu item on the international version (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/default.stm) shows the same content as the corresponding UK-based page (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/default.stm). But, this is *not* the same as the UK-based front page....
So, couldn't the issue be easily sorted by adding a "UK Front Page" option to the International UK menu (along with "England, Northern Ireland ... etc" menu items)?
Just a thought.
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Again I live and work in Ireland 9 onths of the year but have a home in the UK and pay a UK TV license. I like to keep my Newspage UK focussed, now this daft change is removing that opportunity from me.
Nice Work!
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So with basically no consultation, the change has now been made. Cue a LOT of angry people.
And to some of the posters above, going to news.bbc.co.uk/1 now automatically redirects to news.bbc.co.uk/2 if you have a non-UK IP address.
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Oh and btw if you browse with Firefox and use the adblock plus addon you can remove the horrific ads completely and seamlessly from the BBC site when abroad, and have it look exactly as it would in the UK.
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#85. TomatoTomaydo
Sorry but I really don't think you understand the issues here.
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I'm not in favor of this AT ALL. Why don't you do something useful like update "have your say" comments more often than every 48 hours.
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How about some feed back Steve (get the correct person this time...), or is everyone hiding under their desks due to the incessant 'incomings' being metaphorically lobbed in your direction?...
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Oh no...this really sucks. I don't mind the ads (much more descrete than the Telegraph online) but I do miss the ex-pat button.
#47 We like to sample that complusive diet from a safe distance - have our cake and eat it!
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#88: "Why have we been given such a short amount of time between the publication of the editors' decision and the website actually changing?"
Ooh. Yes, it's changed. I live in Sussex, pay my licence fee, and work in London for a US company. My external IP address is American, and I now get the international version of the News page.
I'll add my vote to the huge majority against the move. I want to be able to choose the UK News front page.
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No use complaining, the decision is made and nothing we say will change it. You have destroyed your key advantage of providing a strong UK orientation to overseas users such as myself. CNN, France24, Al Jazeera etc all give me an international view and some can manage preferences for versions too.
I do use the homepage, heavily customised, so when are you going to give me the chance to link in the magazine or other entries from the navigation panel on the left of your news pages ?
PS Actually I do understand your problems with rights but why didn't you also mention the cost of bandwidth for overseas users as a motivation ? I would pay for some of that.
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and I hope you don't take away my option to have my UK birth place as my location just because I'm overseas.
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So the world moves forward with web 2.0 and the BBC goes backwards. How does this "make it easier all round"? Has anyone at the BBC heard about the 3 click rule? No more customisation. No more seeing the news from Manchester. Just global stories and news from London. A real pity. On the front page approx 8 out of 28 stories are now UK based. Thanks for letting us know what you think of readers around the world. Goodbye BBC.
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Like many other commenter I think this is a stupid decision.
I access new.bbc.co.uk directly (I have no interest in anything else on tne BBC website) and while I'm a UK resident I have always chosen the International view of the BBC News page to reduce the UK bias on the front page.
I prefer the more balanced coverage that the International option provided but you're decided I can't have that.
Why ?
Put the option back, please.
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As the change appears to have been made, here's what you can do, you can shove it. The reason for having this site set as the home page on my browser was to access the UK-based front page first thing each day. As that is no longer available, there is no longer any reason to have your site set as the home page. It's been nice knowing you.
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Oh well. Looks like I'll be investing in a VPN then rather than volunteering to pay a licence fee for full access to the BBC contents, which I would be quite happy to do. Still, you'll probably try to block them if they don't buy the IPs from the likes of BT etc.
An absolute joke BBC - not interested in your World Service option. If I want news in a locality I go to their local websites.
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Please please please reconsider. I took the trouble to create a blog account just so I could complain about this. I am an expat and I'd liked seeing the same news as those in the UK. Fair enough I can customise the page, but it will take time and it anyway won't be the same.
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What is very annoying is constantly being told that things are for the benefits of users. Most of the changes seem to make life more complicated, and I presume this will be true with this one. I also don't see the point of this sort of blog if all comments are completely ignored.
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Poor choice - I spend a lot of my time outside the UK (in Prague) and use the BBC News UK option to keep up to date with what's happening in the UK. The News front page is the easiest way to scan through the headlines (otherwise why would you have it with different versions?)
I don't think there's a problem with the access to videos etc - copyright issues will still exist whether they are link to or not.
I ask you to reverse the decision - my experience will be far lessened of the internet. I don't recall any survey / debate about this (not that every decision must be "democratic") but consultation would have been a good thing.
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This change is terrible. I live in the UK, but I prefer having the international pages come up. I never use the bbc.co.uk website, so the changes to that are unimportant to me. Being able to switch versions enabled the news to be more focused to what I wanted; now it is less so, since I now have to go and find what I want in different sections. A petty complaint, but having got used to the way it was, I know from already having to faff about with the website for the last 20 minutes, that I hate with a passion this new system. I like to listen to BBC World service, and Business Daily in the mornings, which were on the front page of the international version, not the UK version. Also, having spent more time outside of the UK than in it for the past 20 years, I am more interested in International News, not the news of the different regions of the UK. If the website ended up going the way of bbc.co.uk, and being extremely malleable, then maybe the change wouldn't be so bad. But it doesn't look like that is going to happen. The bbc.co.uk should have British news, and news.bbc.co.uk should be international. The BBC have always had a high standard of international reporting, however, simply living in the UK does not mean that there is more of a focus on on British news than international. It is all just rather aggravating having these changes.
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This decision is moronic. As someone from the Republic of Ireland, it makes access to Northern Ireland news a couple of clicks away from the main page now. In Ireland we are exposed to a lot of British media (all newspapers, TV and radio are widely available) so for you to change to a "world view" doesn't help if we ourselves cannot change it.
I understand the argument that the news is still there, but as sure as hell is not as obvious.
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This is really annoying. Like a lot of people, I like using this site to get UK news while abroad. Please find a way to enable non-UK users to get UK headlines as we have in the past (or if a UK user wants a more international look to their news, the other way round).
Why do you think so many people use the radio button to choose an UK or International option? Please don't make me have to start using other websites to get UK news as I have always found your site to be good.
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I'm having another go at this. I can watch all the International news repeatedly hour after hour on BBC World News. I come to the BBC Website to set coverage instantly of matters about the UK and my home area Cornwall, as it's not covered on BBC World News. I'm not interested in the Video, though I am an avid viewer of Spotlight from Plymouth each day. BBC World Service Radio, BBC World and Now BBC World News have never covered news from the UK adequately in the near 40 years I have been working overseas. To have an instant access to news from the UK and Cornwall keeps me in touch with what is happening so when I am home, I can at least have a decent conversation with my pals in the pub about events at home. Don't ram these changes down our throats. Change your minds!
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As a customer I don't see the added value to this change - I like the ability to keep the interface consistent wherever I am.
I guess this decision is purely cost driven, but if the restriction of access to uk based content is part of the discussion, then I also think it's about time to have an open discussion on the antiquated, border based, media rights issue. I thought the EEC had stated that I should be able to access tv and other media from my home country wherever I happen to be? What can the content providers be afraid of that isn't already happening?
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I don't like this change.
I currently live in the UK and use the news website regularly to get the latest news from around the world. Like many others here, I never go to bbc.co.uk but straight to news.bbc.co.uk to access the top stories. Much of the UK news just doesn't interest me and appears quite trivial when compared with what is going on around the world. So I preferred using the international version of the site as it cut out all of the stories which were less important but were featured high on the UK version. If something important was happening in the UK I could still find out about it, since there was a UK section on the front page displaying the top story.
I also really enjoyed having the main headlines from throughout the world displayed on the front page. Now I will have to scroll through items of less importance in order to get the main headlines. Its disappointing and I think I may start looking elsewhere for my news.
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The thing I liked most about the web was that it was international; an open virtual landscape without borders or fences. Now, increasingly, website content is being targeted to specific locations and demographics. Thus, for example, most of the ads I see on websites - and quite a lot of other content, including news, articles, search results and so on - are in Spanish. That's because I live in Spain. But I don't speak Spanish; and I don't visit Spanish websites. So the "worldwide web", in my case, is being systematically reduced to the Spanish web. And of course it is the same for everyone else. Content is being "geo-targeted", effectively interfering with our freedom to surf the international web.
If I buy a local newspaper I expect it to contain local news. But if I buy an international newspaper I don't expect to read about local events. And I feel the same way about the web.
Remember the introduction to that TV programme from the '60s, the Outer Limits? "There is nothing wrong with your television set. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling transmission... We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical... For the next hour, sit quietly and we will control all that you see and hear..."
That seems to be the way the Internet is heading.
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i understand the need for the change to the website, but for those of us who wish to keep a 'postcode' area and select sports and news (e.g. i like to have celtic, ipswich town an Ayrshire news), i cannot find where to re-enable this. I find this a shame as it just makes those of us who are British but working abroad, feel a little more alienated.
will you be providing this facility again, or perhaps you already do and I cannot find it.
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Well this is the first time i have been moved to actually complain. I work in the UK for a US company. This means that my IP address is a US one (and cannot be changed - I have asked). Up until now, I have been able to select the UK version, and was living a hapy life.
This change is real nuisance to me, why can't it go back to way it was? I can't play any IPlayer content, as my IP adress is blocked. This I accept is becuase you can't determine exactly where in the world I am.
But really is this change necessary?
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Chill out, it's looks the same if you go to 'UK' - can't say I enjoy immediately going to the international version (and having 'politics' called 'UK politics') first simply because I'm abroad but you can't please everyone
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How sad. Whilst trying to use some of the aspects of new technology you are ignoring the well known shortcomings. Like may others, my internet access is routed through the US, suggesting to you that I am based outside the UK. In fact I am closer to your main offices than most of your readers. Please reconsider this shortsighted decision and allow us to optimise our viewing rather than have to rely on your automated version.
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Great!!
So now we are all expected to join the ranks of insular Brits!!! I have always had my front page as the International version because I want a rounded view of events - same goes for the financial pages, which I see are also now UK biased.
You've already screwed up the weather section - the new version has been dumbed down, making pressure charts difficult to get, and impossible to save as a favourites page, now you've messed up the news pages.
Who consulted users before making these changes?? Who payes your salaries?? Thats right - us the UK users!
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Wow, I thought the access was bad before but these recent changes are finally going to get me to change my homepage.
I'm sitting in sunny (for the moment) Amersham, in the heart of the English shires but, for reasons of ancient history, my company's access goes out through servers in the US. It was bad enough that I couldn't access any iPlayer content (new tag line "making the unmissable unwatchable"?) I am now also persona non grata when it comes to having a UK-centric home page, with my choice of local weather and news reports.
If you must screen off vast tracts of the BBC's site, making them unavailable to Johnny Foreigner, then have a little bit of intelligence about it.
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I was very disappointed to see the changes to the website. I liked being able to see one page which gave international news but with an emphasis on UK stories. I also have to agree with kennethmac2000 that I liked being able to access the Scotland section of the website directly from the home page. The new layout will make it harder. I also do not like the UK politics section not being accessible with one click.
I can understand why technically it might make it easier to manage the site but I really do feel that it is done at the cost of the user experience.
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This is a *very* poor decision.
How can removing consumer choice ever be a progressive step? Never mind "you don't need to", or "not many of you used it", the main people this disadvantages is those people living outside the UK who want to keep in touch with home, having the regional news items on the front page was a massive step in the right direction, you have undone all the good things from last year.
You may have an easier life, well that's good for you, but the user choice has taken a pretty big hit and if they come a poor second to making your life easier, then it doesn't say much for the BBC's attitude to its consumers.
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A frustrating and bewildering decision. I am a Brit spending the year in Germany; why do you assume that I wish to read international news? The entire point of logging onto BBC News is that I can catch up with news from back home.
This is not TV. This is the internet, and the user is in control. Let the viewer have the choice. Until then, I'm changing my homepage to Sky News.
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Ok, Boilerplated - well I'm glad you're in a job where you have the luxury of being able to take 30 minutes off in the middle of the afternoon to watch some middle-aged windbags blow hot air at each other... ;-)
Seriously, though, I have to say that YOU have missed the point - along with a lot of other people here.
The 110-odd comments here represent those people who are motivated enough to come and complain, or otherwise comment. The vast majority of BBC News website users will be unaffected by this change (if, as Steve Hermann says, most users never made a selection) - and that's what the BBC has a duty of care to cater to.
While things like a "select version" button might seem simple, in reality they can create a complex and wasteful amount of behind-the-scenes complexity, especially in this case when content is restricted by geography.
Yes, the BBC could circumvent this - for example by implementing a secure authentication system which gives each user a login based on their geography, and whether they buy a licence fee, etc.
This would cost many millions of pounds - money which could otherwise go towards improving the editorial quality of the site, which you seem to criticise so strongly.
Personally, I would gladly pay a fee - of around the current licence fee amount, give or take - to use the BBC iPlayer from abroad, but I accept that there has to be a business case to do this.
As to all those poor users who don't have home pages - well, it's one click to the UK News page. If that's really a problem for people, they need to grow a spine - or use Google Reader, and create a customised set of RSS feeds they can access from one place, anywhere. Either way, there are solutions.
You are in a relatively uncommon situation, where your company routes its data via a foreign IP address - all I can suggest is that, if the BBC News website is critical to your job, that you speak to your employer about this. But unfortunately for you, most people do not face the same challenges.
In short:
Tourists: One click to UK news from the BBC News homepage = not a hardship
Business travellers with laptop: Set homepage to "UK News" link above for the duration, or use "single click" method outlined above.
People on rerouted IPs: Again, see above - or speak to your employer.
You won't get the mix of international vs UK, but again, if that is so critical, configure it yourself via a customisable BBC homepage, or using RSS.
Some of the commenters here are talking as if the world is ending - there's other stuff to be worrying about, guys, especially when, as in this case, there are solutions.
And I'm sorry, I really fail to see how moaning and whinging and DEMANDING the BBC change its mind is NOT a demand for hand-holding/special treatment.
The BBC has a ton of things wrong with it, many of which are pretty serious - executive pay, accountability, how it deals with UK regions, bias, etc, etc. This website change is NOT, repeat NOT, one of its big problem areas - it is what is technically known as a "minor inconvenience".
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As someone working in the field of education, I often switched to the UK version of the BBC website to read about the latest news in the Education section. As this section is no longer available to international readers, you cannot claim that 'all the same content will be available [...] wherever you are'. Please reverse this decision to exclude international readers from certain sections of the BBC news website.
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Dear Mr Herrmann,
Here's some advice for you and your superiors to help you in preventing a *HUGE* reduction in the number of people (including ex-pats like me) who regularly visit the BBC News website and who strongly resist this change in removing the UK-version button.
I suggest you cut the salaries of all the BBC executives and so-called "talented" presenters and newsreaders and use this money to really listen to the wishes of your target market and to improve your service rather than take away choices and treat us like children just because our IP addresses are not in the UK. (The fact we visit your website from another country in no way means that we want to necessarily read international news first.)
As I understand it, it is possible for you to monitor how many people click on the UK version/International version radio buttons so I suggest you re-implement it and do some simple counting and you will see that the decision to remove this option is wrong.
Furthermore, I also agree with one of the above posts and urge the BBC to allow more video clips to be viewed by those of us abroad and slacken rather than tighten copyright restictions on them.
Thank you for reading, listening and (hopefully) acting accordingly and responsibly on what we - your customers - think.
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This is not a good change. I am British, I live in Scotland, I work in Scotland, but because the internet for my comapny is routed via servers outside of the UK, I am now forced to look at the International edition. At least before I could select the UK edition as default, but you have now removed that option for me.
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Problem is, right now I'm sitting in East London and yet I'm getting the international version. Like quite a few people who work for international companies, the net connection goes through Europe (for some reason - I'm not an IT person!) so previously I'd have to make sure I was on the UK version of the site, which is now unavailable.
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So you took away the option to have whichever edition you preferred and you call this progress?
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Yet another irritant in the name of making things "better" for us. I thought we all lived on one planet, with one internet. The Beeb is losing it, or rather, has lost it. I do hope the fact that 99.9% of comments are negative will have some influence. Why on earth are we being asked for our opinion otherwise?
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Grrrrr! This really annoying! And the BBC radio site redirects to the international version to with no way to manually switch.
The 'add more to this page' doesn't do anything!! so you've ruined my experience of the bbc homepage. I'm using Google Chrome.
I then I just had to go through the awful log in system to comment on this blog.
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its an absolute disgrace. The iplayer argument is misleading - there is plenty of content owned by the BBC - eg sky at night that you cannot get. Yes it is the first step to charging. I wonder if i can get a refund on my license fee from my UK home since i pay again here for just BBC1 and 2 in the Netherlands. I bet I cannot!!!
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This is a small island but some of us do have a world view and are not constantly inward-looking. Personalisation on many news sites allows us to reflect our preferences so why does the BBC have to make such a retrograde step and decide for me what I want on my news front page? Its not UK minutiae.
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I have always set my front page to the UK site. I don't like the assumption that if I live abroad, then I must want an international slant to the front page. I have also never been confused by the different versions, and am well aware that I can't pick up all the audio and video output. Please credit us with a little sense.
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Still no feed-back, it's obviously not just Gordon in a bunker...
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Ugh - what a complete mess. When will people understand that the web is about freedom and choice not control. Why do I have to be forced to accept this change? As an expat in the Netherlands I can go to CNN and set myself to get the US edition without any problems, why can't I set the UK edition? Maybe as an expat I WANT THE UK NEWS 'cos I can't get here in Holland?
As someone with some experience in websites the only issue for the BBC is over the iPlayer and it is simple - register for it...if in the UK put in your TV license details and you have free access, if not charge expats something sensible like £50 a year to access it. This is just a contrivance to show you NuLabour pals that you are making changes.
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Looks like the link to this item has been pulled from technology page now, presumably due to the hostile reaction. It is plain the BBC finds the views of its users inconvenient.
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A retrograde step. Surely, the Internet is supposed to be about breaking down borders and barriers, so that it no longer matters which country, region or place you live in?
Just because I live in the UK does not mean that I always want a UK perspective, but gradually it seems we are being cut off from the rest of the world.
We still have an analogue satellite decoder at home, which enables us to watch many European TV channels, but it seems the new digital ones no longer allow this, so we may one day only be able to see what the UK government and broadcasting authorities allows us to see.
As one technology liberates us, so another is used to take that freedom away again.
I have not noticed this tendency in other European countries, where TV/news seems pretty much borderless.
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Sorry, BBC, I don't like the changes to your News webpages.
I'm a UK citizen living abroad. I choose the BBC News webpages specifically so that I can keep in touch with my home country and get impartial news reports, on both UK stories and the main international ones, too.
I like it that the reporting has a UK-bias - that's why I choose BBC. If I want more international news, I can go to other international websites.
May have to switch to ITN from now on ...
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Bad Bad Bad
Like many others I don't always get a UK address when I'm in the UK.
I prefer the international news (as was) and had it bookmarked (occasionally having to reselect International Version)
Why Why Why wasn't there more warning about this? You know (and have done for some weeks it seems) that I am a UK user accessing the internatial version - why has there been no warning popping up or appearing at the top of the page that in future this wouldn't be possible?
Please Please Please put it back - geolocation is a very BAD idea!
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When I send my "disatisfied" message to the feedback section I wondered if I would be in the minority - and then I came to this blog!
Everyone above has it. This is a disasterous change that does no service to the readership of this site. No need to add anything more.
Other than PMQs and the like are always available on the Sky News website from overseas, for those of you, like me, who will be going elsewhere until this misjudgement is corrected.
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This is very disappointing. Although it is frustrating to not be able to watch BBCi stuff etc. I didn't mind at all being told that this was the case - in what way can it be called confusing???
I think you have to be careful about over-engineering this whole thing. Why not keep it simple? If people want to see International version they can - if not then they see UK, in the knowledge that some things will not be permissable.
I'd like to KNOW what I can't do - please don't patronise me by saying 'its better you don't know what you can't have' which is how it feels right now.
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As a Brit living outside the UK, BBC News has always been my view into the goings on back home. From the local (Wales) to business, sport and weather. You gave us an OPTION to change what version we want. Understood (or perhaps accepted) the restrictions on iPlayer and which sports programs you decided you could relay outside the UK vs those you could not (hmmm Eng v WI test match - YES, T20 - no; anything to do with levels of interest?) Lots of comments here about recouping your costs from non-UK viewer and the fact that we already subject to advertising emblazoned across the website (many websites seem to get by with that level of cost recouping).
Main point - I had an option, a setting that governed my whole experience with BBCNews. Now I have no choice. My business and sports and weather experience is all governed by what you decide. Its a terrible web experience when you have ZERO control over what you see.
Good bye BBC News
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I'm British, living in Canada. Until yesterday, the BBC news website was one of the more interesting websites that I checked daily - the fact that I was able to customise the site so that I could not only get the UK news perspective, but even get regional news from where I come from, was inherently good. Also, it was good to be able to show links directly to a specific football team's section of the website, so that I could follow my team from afar (even if the BBC's coverage of League One football is sometimes amazingly shoddy... though that's another story).
Anyway, I think the key point is this: the BBC website, as a news source providing information from geographic places that I have an emotional link to, was very good... until I logged in this morning. Now, before I even find any of this information at all, I have to trawl past the headlines are from Bosnia, Kenya, China... disparate places that I have never been to and have no attachment to. If I want this global information, it is readily available in other news outlets, such as the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, so what makes the BBC news website worth visiting anymore? At least if I check CBC then I will get news relevant to my current locale as well as international news.
Of course though, this isn't really satisfactory - CBC doesn't exactly report very often on my British reference points, or esoteric local news from the Midlands, or what's happening to Walsall Football Club. Until yesterday, the BBC provided that link to my home country. Today, the new version is analagous to me phoning my parents in the UK and them negating to let me know how things were with them, instead telling me passive, sterile news about obscure work colleagues that I don't know.
It's just another tie to the home country severed for many British ex-pats.
Still, on the bright side, at least we might all be able to avoid your asinine obsession with Twitter now.
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This is a very disappointing decision, like kennethmac2000, I am a Scot abroad and I too like seeing Scotland on the first tier menu as well as UK news as the main headline - it's precisely why I visit news.bbc.co.uk
I use other news outlets for my international news, as well as many BBC features.
What this will now mean for most Brits abroad is further drilling down for local news that is important to us when we are away either temporarily or permanently!
Advertising appears on the UK version abroad anyway and I understand that some video content won't function because of the licensing issues, so I don't see why they are an issue.
Please reconsider BBC!
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Please reconsider!
I work for a foreign multinational whose connection to the internet is in mainland Europe. As a result I get the international version even though I'm sat in the north of England.
The headline ticker is on the international headline page, not on the UK page and I no longer have a section for my local news even when on international's UK page.
Complete ridiculous and very inconvenient. Everything that was in one place is now split apart. You've ruined the site.
Didn't you think to trial this before implementing such big changes?!
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According to the article, the new best/only way to get the "full"
UK news is to customise the bbc.co.uk homepage. So, that's what I
just tried. A few points:
1) the bubbly look is pretty hideous - half the reason people like
news.bbc is the clean uncluttered interface.
2) I've tried clicking the "add more" button in four browsers -
Chrome, Firefox, IE and Opera. Does nothing. Turned off pop-up
blockers... still does nothing. The only way I could get it to
work was to change to "simple graphics" and "simple layout" in
/Display Options/. This then finally displayed a list of things
to add after clicking on the "add more" link. Categories can then
be added before switching back to the less spartan bubble-view.
Seamless!
3) I've changed my weather forecast location from London to other
places (both in the UK and internationally). It remembers the new
places on the BBC Weather site, but not on the bbc.co.uk homepage,
making it pointless.
Gnargh!
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I would like the choice back please, as:
1. I pay the licence fee and therefore am a customer of the BBC - an fact that clearly does not count
2. I go straight to news.bbc.co.uk nearly every day - sometimes two or three times per day, therefore bypassing the front-page. Like other comments, I would put /radio4 for Radio 4, etc.
3. Whilst British, living in the UK, I have friends and family abroad and prefer an international perspective rather than a parochial UK view of the world.
4. Regardless of the fact that the same news is apparently available, it does not FEEL like it is and that is the important bit.
Regrettably, despite the number of people complaining her, I have no doubt the BBC will not change its mind.
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Notice anything different? Yes. I can no longer view the BBC news front page in the format that I want to! Simpler to use? Rubbbish! It now takes far more clicks for me to navigate to the news I want to see.
I live abroad and used to use the UK setting for the news website. I was aware that certain broadcast material was not available outside the UK and it had little to no impact on my ease of use or enjoyment of the site. It seems that in the name of customization you've removed the one choice that actually mattered to a lot of visitors from abroad!
Sadly I'm not holding my breath waiting for things to change back, however great the outcry. The BBC have made this change without warning and I'm sure this blog will be as useful as a Downing Street petition in encouraging change. After all, we're just the users of this site and hence of no importance in a decision like this. I guess I'll just head off to work and await the usual patronizing why-we're-right-and-you're-all-wrong response.
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Like the majority of other British citizens living overseas, I'd like to see access to the UK version of the website restored. We already know we can't watch TV on the iPlayer, and have learned to live with it! (But please make radio available on the iPlayer for the iPhone!)
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Oh boy, as an expat, do I ever hate this decision.
Way to stuff things up guys. Take a brown coloured star :)
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I agree with all the critiques. You are removing choice from the reader - a choice that we deserve to have. If you're having technical problems then work harder, don't take the easy way out because you don't think there will be too many complaints. WE pay for you to work harder than this.
I live in London but don't want to read about domestic news (mainly because BBC domestic coverage is so insipid and emotive i.e. tabloid, not news) I can get better domestic news from other sources, but not better international coverage. Who on earth thought this idea up? Sack them and bring back the old version... or I think you lose a lot more readers than you estimate.
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Appalling and manipulative. I always used the international version because the UK one is so parochial. Now we are prevented from putting ourselves in the BBC's international perspective and have to see the world through the wrong end of the telescope. About the only way of getting a balance now is to read Al-Jazeera and Channel 4 and average them out.
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As you can see from nearly 100% of the posts, this is a very unpopular decision. I certaily will change my home page now as i want to go straight to the UK page. I live abroad and want to see UK news first without having to search for it.
Why do you have to change something that works well? It is, I imagine for the BBC's convenience rather than its internet users. Please reverse this decison whilst you still have some peolpe using the site.
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Well done BBC. I've just set my homepage now to SKY News. I'm a license paying Brit who works abroad for a month at at time and liked to have the BBC .co.uk page as my hompage so that I can catch up quickly with what is going on. Yet again choice is being removed. I had no problem with you asking me whether I wanted to set my homepage to the UK or International but not having the choice is outrageous. If I want to know what is going on in China, America, Pakistan etc I will go that area of your site but especially when I am working abroad I like to see what is happening first at home. I suppose this is being done either to appease the PC brigade at the Beeb or to generate income. Sad very very sad.
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Utterly incredible. Now I can see why everyone here in Australia calls us all whinging Poms.
I'm afraid I only read as far as 80 comments, but it seems that most objectors really haven't paid much attention to the explanation. If you want the UK front page, you could (drum roll...) add a BOOKMARK to your browser, or vice versa for the world news front page. And what is the world coming to when having to click "UK" to see "Scotland" in the left hand nav seems sooooo laborious?
The BBC is *forbidden by law* from showing certain media material outside the UK, and has an obligation to its licence payers to make sure that they are not footing the bill for all of us ex-pats to watch streaming media. We chose to leave the UK, that's our tough luck. Unfortunately, GeoIP is a blunt instrument, and the Beeb (or more accurately, the web) can't tell the difference between media-watchers who might be freeloading anglophile foreigners, UK licence payers on holidays, or those of us whose corporate networks use overseas IPs. Tough.
I'm sure a subscription service for overseas users is in the pipeline, but in the meantime, I don't think it's so awful that the BBC is trying to streamline the website to make it easier to maintain - especially when it churns out so many excellent incremental improvements month on month.
Well done BBC!
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#123
"Tourists: One click to UK news from the BBC News homepage = not a hardship
Business travellers with laptop: Set homepage to "UK News" link above for the duration, or use "single click" method outlined above."
But they can't, their IP address prevents then from assessing the UK BBC news web site, why shoudl they have to access the BBC home page, and (in the case of tourists using web cafes) keep 'customising' the page to get the content that they want when it used to be available with a simple one click radio button?...
"People on rerouted IPs: Again, see above - or speak to your employer."
That has got to be the most arrogant, ignorant, thing said yet! :-(
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Two things I need to air;
1 - I live and work in West London (nr Heathrow), but my internet connection at work goes via France. I have to customise things like Google to display in English otherwise it defaults to French. In this case, I'd always get the international version.
2 - I travel to other parts of the world, but when I'm at home, I use iPlayer a lot. It would be good to be able to use the iPlayer when I'm travelling too.
Could both of these issues not be solved in one of two ways. Either have a memberhship program where a 'token' is provided by the BBC to install on the laptop so that the BBC could be convinced that the user was a genuine license paying UK user, or some form of secure sign-in membership linked to the PC MAC-address. A consideration for those with multiple PCs, one at home, one in the office, and a laptop would need to be built in too.
Instead of letting the state use technology to watch us, can we not use the available technology to simply watch telly.
Thanks
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This change has just kicked in with my ISP provider in France. It's a disaster - I want the UK version. I want to know what's going on in my hometown at a glance, and not by setting BBC Manchester as my homepage (which I have now done). I don't like the appearance of the International page, and never have done. You really must rethink this disastrous decision, and most of the comments on the blog seem to what to go back to the previous choices. People will, in my opinion, now move away from the BBC as their homepage - I imagine many were expats anyway - to another source of international news. These places abound - what made the BBC unique was that you could choose. Once again, internet choice is being limited...
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I am a frequent user of the BBC new website, and the changes in the site are not an issue, however being a Brit living in northern Germany I have to "suffer" the ads shown before each news clip. I really got fed up with one clip (trail for a new film) that I stopped viewing clips altogether until it was changed. I agree with CANUKQC it would be great if the situation with international rights is sorted out. I would love to view some of the TV programms with the iplayer. Luckily SAT-TV doesnt stop at boarders so I can receive all free to air UK TV programms. I pay a German TV leicence fee which also covers my computer. I would be happy to pay a subscription to be able to access all the BBC TV programms on line. Luckily enough listning to Radio has been possible for some years.
What will the future bring? Hopefully not restrictions.
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I just noticed roses2at's comment, and I couldn't help myself responding. If droves of expats are driven away from using the BBC website by the thought of having the same news served to them as vile foreigners, this will only lighten the load on the BBC's servers and reduce the cost of running the site which licence payers are paying for.
I can't see many tears shed over that public saving.
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if every expat complained to their MP this would cause a headache for the BBC - Your MP is located in the same constituency as you were last listed on the electoral role - we must get the BBC to change this back asap
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I am very disappointed. I live in Canada but am a Brit hoping to return to the UK next year and I dont want to be treated like I am not a Brit. I would want to see the Radio button returned so that I can see a UK only site and if I want the "world view" then I can switch to it when I want.
Pity the people who planned this backward step didnt think about maybe posting a little survey to gauge reaction before they implemented this. Again, very disappointing.
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Please bring back the option to view the UK version from outside the UK. I am a Brit living in the US and I want to be able to see the UK version just as before. I am sure many expats would like to do the same, so please re-enable this option. Thank you.
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I am frustrated by this change as I want an international news front page. If the issue is people coming from abroad why not tell them to use use bbc.com vs. bbc.co.uk? They own both domains and would allow people in the UK to freely pick the one they prefer. I think users should be viewed as tech savvy enough to understand the difference between the two.
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how do we get to the UK Have your say???? they didnt work this one out did they????? bunch of idiots
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This is a terrible change. So what if I get a message that "BBC iPlayer cannot be used outside the UK due to licensing laws"? I got that; no problem.
I'm an American who will be living in York next year. I've spent many holidays there, and I like to keep up on North Yorkshire news. You've made that more difficult for me now.
As others have said, if I wanted news with an international or American slant, I could easily look at CNN or MSNBC. Now I'll probably go directly to a North Yorkshire site and bypass the BBC homepage altogether.
This is not an improvement.
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These changes are taking away choice - half the point of having the UK flavoured settings was that was the focus of what i wanted to see anyway. I am already a UK licence fee payer anyway so not sure of the logic behind this. Its frustrating to say the least.
I also seem to have lost the ability to set the weather on my village!
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Also, I have to agree with #133 (ajmanenglishteacher)
I've never been "confused" by the different versions. It's pretty obvious if you're reading the UK version from outside the UK, and some content throws up an "Only for UK users" message that the reason it's not playing is because ... well, you're not in the UK and you're reading the UK version!
It's certainly annoying that the BBC content isn't available internationally, but hardly "confusing". And obscuring the UK site from outside viewers (and the international site from domestic viewers!) doesn't seem like a very elegant or fair solution for those who use and appreciate it.
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I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels cheated by the removal of choice.
First I work for a company who has access points to the Internet only in the UK (serving Europe) and the USA (serving North America)... European users will be forced to use the UK version unless we have a failure in the UK links in which case we'll all get the International version!
Then I'm also one of the many who are often abroad... and am already frustrated that I often can't access UK content from wherever I am. I guess that's all part of the fun of a "global" network with no borders though!
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Highly retrogade step for me. I'm sitting in an office in Suuthamptom, but am now forced to see the international BBC news purely because I work for a multinational company and our intranet makes it look like I'm using an overseas IP provider. Much prefer to have a choice which version to look at.
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I agree with a lot of the negative comments. I live and work in the UK, but because my company uses a proxy server in Germany I can longer see the UK version, which means I no cannot customise my page for local news, weather and the sport I want to see. To add to this I cannot even customise the main BBC homepage.
I cannot comment on the views about future charging, but I do know I pay for this service already with my license fee and I can longer get the service I want.
Please reverse this asap.
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Please change this back.
I live and work in the UK but because the company I work for has the network servers based in Belgium, the BBC has now decided I am an International user. The radio buttons that were previously there allowed me to revert back to the UK version but I no longer have this option.
I'd like to have the UK focus without having to search for it. I'm really disappointed that the BBC has taken this away with no consultation.
Backward step BBC
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What's the BBC Trust's opinion on these changes, what has Mark Thompson to say about someone within BBC internet deciding to disenfranchise whole swaths of the BBC license fee payers - many of the complaints have come from people within the UK (or BBC users further afield). Do either the Trust or Thompson even know about this, have we got to make an official complaint before we get any reply to our complaints about how OUR money is being used?
The BBC website, in the last 12 months, has gone from a site that many could not do without to a website that many will have to do without, first we had wider pages (simply because most people now have 17" or wider screens, never mind how people actually use their wide(r) monitor screens) then we had the imposition of pre-loading and in some cases auto-run video content on each and every page load and now we can't even decide what site version we want to see and in some cases even access from a UK address or by UK licence fee payers when outside the UK...
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I'm considering starting a campaign against geographicism.
I travel a lot, and of late it has been increasingly difficult and frustrating to use websites when out of the UK. It's hugely annoying to have a over-clever site decide that because you're looking at it from Austria or Japan, you must be served pages of content tailored for people from those countries, regardless of any preferences you set on your computer. It's especially annoying when you don't read the local language and can't find a way out.
In the early days of the web, content was delivered fairly raw, and one could set one's preferences for viewing it - perfect for people with visual difficulties, of course. The philosophy was that everyone could if they wished, see the content how they wanted. Now we are force-fed with whatever those with the power think we should take, and have less and less "choice".
I hope that the BBC website will have some way of accepting that, wherever I may be, I'm an English reader with an interest in the news of a certain area of England.
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This is a really bad decision. Since the BBC news site was launched it has been my number one website, but after this fiasco of a decision, I'm more likely in future to go to the Guardian first to check for UK news and sport.
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Please put it back to the way it was. I was happy with it for many years - now I am unhappy! Time will not change my displeasure.
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When I view the BBC news site I'm as interested in the choice of content as the content itself - living abroad I want to see what news is being reported in Britain at least as much as news about Britain.
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An appalling decision, made too hastily, without any consultation, and apparently because some techies can't be bothered to invest the time to come up with a solution which would actually work for everyone.
Add me to the list of expats who choose the UK edition, because I want to see the Northern Ireland headline on the front page in addition to all the other news.
Idiotic BBC...
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Personally, it was fine. Everything worked well. I could see exactly what I wanted. Now I can't. For example, the weather page refuses to accept my changes, it sets London as International Location, however "Goole" seems to want to be my home (I have never lived there). I try and set my continental location and it refuses that as well.
Now, I can no longer see what I want. From my point of view, it's a disaster.
I can no longer have my chosen TV channels available.
Is there no way we can have the option, one, or the other?
By the time I'd removed all the topics in which I had no interest there was nothing left! I can't even delete the 'other' news section, to leave "UK only". "More Top Stories"? Well, not quite. There is the option to select UK available, could it be "UK ONLY"?
I agree with another posting above:-
Please Please Please put it back - geolocation is a very BAD idea!"
I do not want adverts in a different language. I do not want adverts at all, come to think of it. However, in this climate I understand the reasoning.
There were more important things to sort out.- It was working!!!
It's so frustrating. I know the information I had conveniently available on a customized page was 'there', now I have to 'go elsewhere'.
Well done folks 0/10.
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For those within the UK who are unhappy about these changes perhaps we could all consider making an official complaint, one that would have to be listened to?...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/index.html
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The BBC news website was my first stop for news. First over Sky, First over ITV.com, First over C4 or any of the internationals (CNN, Fox etc.) I've made the BBC first for years.
Is the BBC the British Broadcasting Corporation? Should the B be first - for British and British People. I realise that it is of interest to the international audience too, but Brits are your first audience. Let Brits get the service they pay for, and the ex-pat Brits are still Brits - let them see the UK version as a default. As I said in my #157, many of us access from work, and it's increasingly common to go out through a default gateway wherever your data centre is, and my data centre is in France, so sitting here in Hayes, West London, I get access to the BBC from France and I'm not happy. I like the NE news, Tyne, Wear and Tees and could always navigate quickly and easily to that from the UK version, even though I accessed from Hayes via France.
The BBC is broken, please fix it. Please please please, give us the option.
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146. At 1:48pm on 11 Jun 2009, bobbleob wrote
"[re the problems and pit-falls of customising the bbc.co.uk home page] Gnargh!"
Now go and change computers by 'hot-seating' another desk...
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I'm an expat living in Belgium. We receive BBC 1, 2, 3 and Four with our cable TV (I pay for it)and I find the listings page (UK version) very handy. I have managed to change my bookmark back to the UK version but why the meddling?
I find this particularly irritating on the News site which was always nice to get the UK perspective on the news. Also he "Have your say" pages are stuck on the "international version"....then again you may have spared me from some of the narrow minded views of my fellow Brits at home which I sometimes find infuriating!
I don't really understand why you're tinkering with this? If your from outside the UK you are automaticly diverted to the international version of the site by default. However for ex-pats like myself it was nice to have the manual override.
I didn't mind certain videos not playing as I'm informed enough to realise that certain content cannot be played outside the UK. For pties sake stop pandering to people who are too thick to realise this for themselves.
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I'll add my voice to the "disappointeds". I'm travelling overseas and it was nice to see what was going on at home (eg local headlines and weather) without having to go through hoops.
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Please change it back to the old way!
I pay to recieve the international news through BBC world on skyperfect TV in Japan. I rely on my UK version on line to keep me up to date with UK news and sports in detail, I always used the choose your version button. I could easily access Tyne news and weather for my post code. The new site just feels clumsy.
I would even be happy to pay to use iplayer as we cant get any BBC satelite channels except BBC world news where I live in Japan!
Dont start messing with the BBC radio site again too!!
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I am disappointed with the change. I access the BBC news website frequently during the day and although I live overseas I prefer to see the content in a UK perspective and not an International one. The BBC is a lifeline for me to follow and be up to date with all general and sports news. I am fortunate to have BBC1 & BBC2 as standard channels in my TV package but was disappointed a few years ago when the complete CEEFAX function was removed for 'overseas' viewers and now this. The BBC must realise that many 'overseas' viewers are infact UK citizans and like to be able to view matters from a UK perspective!
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I believe this is a truly BAD idea and makes the web site much less useful and enjoyable than it was before. As a former Brit but now international user I want to see the true UK headlines as presented to the UK.
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I work for a major international corporation, with around 30,000 UK based staff. As other people point out, all of our internet access goes through a central european gateway (which is not in the UK).
It's bad enough Facebook assumes I speak German because I appear to be in germany, even though it knows I'm British.
But I did at least count on the fact I could get to the UK version of BBC News...but now it seems not.
I AM NOT an international user, your logic is flawed and unreliable, please restore a UK new.bbc.co.uk option.
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You say that "all the same content will be available as now so you'll still be able to get both UK and international news wherever you are."
Like many others, I work in the UK for a multi-national company with a 'foreign' IP address, and so now get the international version.
A few minutes ago, however, the system decided that I was in the UK and provided the UK version. Prominently displayed on both the homepage and Business page was an item about the West Bromwich Building Society.
I then closed my browser and re-opened it - and this time the International version appeared. Clicking around the Homepage, Business Page, UK page, I was unable to find the article.
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No no no...I'm British, I pay the licence fee, but work for a US company. Our servers are US based so I appear to you as an international user. I'm at home! I want to feel like I'm at home! I want to be able to select my location...please change it back.
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I really dislike this change. I'm in the UK but I always set my page to International simply because I want World News first. This change is exceptionally annoying.
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I'd add my vote to maintaining the status quo. The original solution is vastly more practical for (commonplace, in my case) situations where different networks are used to access bbc.co.uk.
And please, don't get me started on iPlayer. The restrictions placed on its content are completely absurd. Why in the world can I, a UK license payer, store an aired program to disk, DVD or tape but not identical streamed content. 100% ridiculous.
Thanks for listening.
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I live in Hampshire - but suddenly I can no longer access the UK-oriented news page, or any iPlayer content. Nor can I find out programme details for UK TV broadcasts without clicking about four times. The BBC website now assumes that I live "overseas". Elsewhere on your website, you suggest that this is because I have an AOL account, and that the problem is AOL's fault. But earlier in the week, I could access everything I wanted. Now I can't.
I can understand the BBC wanting to stop overseas viewers accessing its services for free. But why should UK viewers, who pay their full licence fee, be penalised in the process? Perhaps you should offer a reduced licence fee for BBC viewers who use AOL broadband?
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Urrgh. Here we go again. The BBC did this once before on the Entertainment page - they previously had sections for TV, Radio, Theatre. Then they merged them all, leading to fewer stories, and paraded it as a useful move forward. It wasn't. People complained and asked it to be put back. It wasn't.
Here again, the Editor has announced the change, without really apologising for the fact that the service for those abroad (such as me) is now poorer. Take for example the Entertainment section again. As far as I can tell now it has approximately half the stories on the new version as it did on the previous UK version. And I don't believe that "all of the same content is still there". There is no Entertainment sub-menu under the new UK tab. So, a step backwards then.
You only have to glance down the 150 or so comments to date to realise that the vast majority resent this change. I, like many I expect, have been more than happy to put up with the inability to stream video and would have been happy to continue with this. But, as seems always to be the case these days, the change is made unilaterally first, the customer is given the opportunity to comment, but then nothing will be done. No further feedback will be given.
Annoyed.
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Really poor decision, i personally like seeing the difference in how the BBC is presenting different news stories to different audiences.
It's a massive shame to lose this transparency :/
Really stirs doubt that you'd take away this feature for such a weak reason
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With reference to my earlier message (#124), I notice that the Education section has been added to the drop-down menu under the UK link. It was not there a few hours ago, so thank you for making it available again.
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I feel strongly (enough to register and post this) that the BBC has made an error of judgement here in disregarding the make-up of it's international visitors.
I, like many others I suspect, previously used the UK version to keep up with the news from back home as I spend much of my time overseas. In particular, I used the 'customisation' feature that allowed me to place the most recent stories from my home county and my football team onto the front page. That this functionality has now been removed - it's not available to 'international' users - shows a lack of foresight and understanding that many of your international users are in fact looking for UK news that they may not be able to get anywhere else.
By removing the ability to choose which version of the site is seen, removing access to the customisation features for international readers and by making the stories we actually come here to read harder to find, you're discouraging, not encouraging your international visitors.
We already deal with advertising, decided solely on the grounds of our IP address and despite that many of us are license payers. Please don't discourage us any more. At the very least, you should make the customisation feature available to UK users available to international users as well.
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As I write this, nearely 30 posts are awaiting moderation and the mod delay is over an hour - most unusual for this time of day. I'll bet that most of them, like this one, are as concerned as virtually all of the 164 visible so far.
This is approaching PRC levels of paranoia concerning information dissemination and a terrible change for the worse, especially for those of us who are GB expats, and I especially agree with:
#60 MSPMSP1: "DON'T ERECT NATIONAL BARRIERS IN CYBERSPACE!" and
#128 neillydun: "So you took away the option to have whichever edition you preferred and you call this progress?"
IP# geolocation if properly administered was reasonable for "entertainment" programming, but it was pretty unreasonable of "auntie" to remove virtually all of the domestic news programming from the BBC pop-up player including Newsnight, The Daily Politics, This Week, Question Time, The Politics Show and Sunday AM which showcased the fact that in Britain democracy may be on its knees but still has some freedom of speech left.
That problem could have been solved easily, but instead your techies have preferred to fiddle with thing which were never a problem instead.
CNN and other major news websites copied your "choice" approach and still do. Long may they remain more sensible than our "auntie" who knows best.
Please undo this change for the worse.
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I'm very very disappointed, the stories are the same is an invalid argument because the priority each story is given is an important way of staying in touch when you're overseas.
Feels like censorship.
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waterloosydney:
Please explain how I get to see the UK front page. I mean, please give me the exact URL that I should use.
Just for clarification, I do not want the UK section front page, which contains only news from the UK, I want the UK front page of BBC News, which contains news from across the world but from a UK perspective.
Oh wait... it is now IMPOSSIBLE to get this without a UK IP address.
This change is totally unnecessary and ridiculous. I also wonder how many other public service broadcasters across the world are implementing such a crazy and choice-eliminating 'feature'.
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#165 AndyBugden
"how do we get to the UK Have your say????"
I can't figure out a way of getting to the UK version, but you can currently access and comment on all BBC News HYS fora here.
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
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I have used the BBC UK edition webpage as my home page for several years - I am interested in the local news and weather where my family live in the UK which was always presented in my edited chosen version. Now I am denied this without having to click through lots of links.
I am not interested in the international news and weather - I get that on TV and radio in greater depth than the BBC provides and on alternative websites as and when I want it.
Being denied the choice by the BBC I will now choose to pick another website for my home page.
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Although there are technical reasons for this problem, I still don't understand why you cannot just allow everyone to customise their news homepage. That would be incredibly useful and wouldn't have an effect on your International policies; I would guess. I live in the UK but had the international version because I found some of the 'News Front Page' stories frustratingly irrelevant and boring; whereas world top stories are usually much more interesting and relevant to my interests. Yes, it's only one extra click for me to get back to my beloved International news page, but it's still an odd decision for you to get rid of the choice because of a few technical difficulties.
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What a shame. I log on to BBC to know what is happening in the UK. I want to know what my friends and family are reading and talking about. It is about staying in touch when you live overseas. The international version always has too little UK politics, sport and culture. This new website is like BBC World TV. Please, this is much worse. Switch it back.
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thanks bbc!!!!. Now i cant even get the uk version. Even though i am in the uk as well. Sort it out NOW!!!!!!!!
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I'm not happy about this, I have used the international option for years to screen out all the boring, tedious domestic news. The same content might be there, but if its a lot harder to find then I may simply never notice/find it. Still no one likes change, I'll give the BBC the benefit of the doubt and give it a go I suppose!
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I am really disappointed with these changes. As a Brit living in Ireland, I not only want to keep up with the UK news, but also much of the UK news is very relevant to Ireland. I have always used the news.bbc.co.uk website to check the news no matter whether I am home or abroad and have always had it set to the UK version and I am disappointed that the choice to use a UK or international version has been taken away from me. Additionally, if I wanted news tailor made to the country I'm in, surely I'd use local websites/papers?! Please reconsider and give people the choice back. The BBC has always been renowed for quality- please don't go back on this now with this clearly unpopular decision.
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To all those who seem to resent any resources supporting the needs of expats, I did think that part of the BBCs mission was to reach out to the rest of the world. For all the years when I was in the UK and paid my license fees, I did not begrudge the funds spent on the foreign services. Anybody that has traveled to the darker parts of this world will tell you how they hear constantly above the tremendous value that comes from these activities and the reflected esteem that folk have for the UK as a result.
Honestly, I don't mind a few extra clicks to get to the materials I want - and I can find most everything I need. What I am missing a great deal, however, is access to the regular BBC TV news broadcasts that I used to be able to access through the audio/video section of the UK version of the site. I would be most grateful if rather than frothing at the mouth about how much we are whinging about nothing, someone could tell me if there is a way to access this. Mr Herrmann said that all content was still available in the new format, however, I have yet to find a way to access these videos. I would be happy to pay for this access.
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I am far from happy about this development. I live in the UK in Solihull West Midlands and naturally pay my BBC licence fee. I am with AoL as my ISP (for 14 years!) and it would appear that they use servers in the USA. But unfortunately from this week I have been unable to receive BBC live streaming as the BBC servers wrongly assume that I "am living out of territory", and from today I get the international edition of the BBC web site, and what is worse I cannot even get the UK link to open ! It is a totally crazy situation. I have emailed both the BBC and AoL and both appear to say not my problem ! So I ask when it was not broke why attempt to fix it ! The whole thing in this day and age of freedom of access of information is a complete and utter nonsense.
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I'm sorry but frankly giving us International users a small section of top headlines from the UK is useless. When I wanted UK news whether I was at home or abroad I always chose the Beeb for straightforward un-glamourized reporting (unlike Sky & all the others...).
In the recent on-screen survey you guys had pop up on the BBCNews website, I recommended just moving the International/UK version button from half way down the right hand side of the screen, to the top right hand of the screen next to the "Explore The BBC". This would make it quick & efficient for the users having to choose the location content they wanted. Why couldn't you do that ? It's not difficult to do and you retain the same system as you had before, with all the links & advertising you had on the various pages, and nothing would have changed. And you wouldn't have loads of people complaining about this complete muck-up that you guys have created.
Yet again an almost great website setup is ruined by useless internal bureaucracy, or future plans for commercial greed...
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#160
"If droves of expats are driven away from using the BBC website by the thought of having the same news served to them as vile foreigners, this will only lighten the load on the BBC's servers and reduce the cost of running the site which licence payers are paying for."
For once it's not about the money. Both versions had adverts on them when viewed from abroad. So anyone reading the site outside the UK was and still is contributing to the cost of running the site by providing the BBC with advertising revenue. I can live with that. I live in the US most of the year and don't pay the licence fee (although I would if it gave me access to iPlayer ... ) so I think it's fair enough.
Editors: please give readers the choice again. If the NY Times and even the Grauniad can pull off having two versions then I don't see why the BBC can't. I don't care about not being able to see some video -- there's too much of it on here now anyway -- it's really slowing down the site for a lot of people.
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As an ex-pat who reads the BBC daily for news about the UK (and specifically Wales), I am very disappointed by this change, especially because there was no consultation. After re-reading the article and going through the comments, I'm not sure that technical reasons are insurmountable, nor would cost any money. Leaving a cookie on a device which determines which edition is not that hard and the correct use of style sheets with rigid guidelines for ads should not cause any difficulties in page formatting. Additionally, implementing a membership system would be trivial (you already have to sign up to post to the blogs), so you could leverage that existing infrastructure (data privacy issues notwithstanding).
To reiterate a point made by other people numerous times, geolocation is invariably a bad idea. It tends to provide false positives and false negatives and, in my experience, does not provide a good indication of peoples requirements. The main usage seems to be where some amorphous 'digital rights' issue has been raised and statements about 'improving service' ring very hollow -- they seem to be always about stopping people from accessing content rather than providing better, or more desirable, content.
Surely this isn't what the BBC wants to do? Isn't the corporate motto "Nation Shall Speak Peace Unto Nation"?
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I too prefer, despite living in the UK, to use the international version of the site because its news values are more balanced. Too often the UK site is far too parochial, giving unnecessary emphasis to spats between parties at Westminster, and to other media trivia. Others commenting have a different perspective, and prefer to access the UK site from abroad. The BBC likes to regard itself, with justification, as a world leader in news gathering and broadcasting. Depriving users of this choice is hardly a service enhancement.
If you are not prepared to reverse this decision then is there a BBC World Service news site that I can bookmark instead?
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at first glance it looks as though I can't set the weather block to my locale (we don't ALL live in London - I don't care if rains cats and dogs down there, and if it snows I will no doubt hear about it all the way home on PM) - nor can I setup a block for my local news headlines. And, for a while I couldn't even use the 'Add more to this page' button.
Not a good start, can we go back to the good old days.
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Why could you not just leave this alone ???? I might live abroad but I came on here every day to find out what was happening in the UK and more importantly in Scotland. I am Scottish and it's bad enough being so far away without some jobsworth deciding which news I can read.
Let me make that choice of which news I can have access to, I'm old enough to know the difference!!!
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Ahh so I've just seen what has happened to the Home page. As usual some smart alec has decided he knows my requirements bettter than me, has removed direct access to the most useful elements and forced onto my page items I don't want to see in a month of Sundays. Why exactly can't I select England news without passing through UK news ? I get there in the end but it's extra clicks for me and black marks for you. Goodness knows what will happen to the caption competition or the various quizzes.
Shame on you. Go and eat humble pie.
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Re Boilerplated Message #180. I have written to the BBC Trust and to my MP. I hope others take the time to do so. It's the first time in my life I have written to either the BBC Governers or Trust to complain. I hope I don't have to again. Logging onto the BBC site is a major part of my day - every day. I am inscensed by this arbitary change to how I live my life.
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This is terrible. As a brit living in the US my morning sanity check has now been taken away. I want to be able to read the UK version with news about my local town just like I have done every morning since I've been here.
Go ahead and make changes but PLEASE give me the option to view what I could view before. I'm not happy BBC :(
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Must say I find this a pain as well. I live and work in the UK and I'm a fully paid up licence fee payer. However my company's internet gateway is in Germany, so I'm now getting the international version of the page, which does not provide the focus I require.
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Glad to see all comments are negative. First the world service cuts now this. Thanks. Skynews.com for me then.
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....and another thing.
When I click on the UK options, I am allowed only to see the 'one minute world news' summary, but England, Scotland and NI all allow the BBC News Channel, whilst Wales only gets a 'one minute' summary again.
This cannot be explained by any reasoning other than it is a badly implemented so-called upgrade. Even if you do see me as an international user, sitting in west London but looking to you like I'm in France, it does not explain how I can see the full news channel in some categories and only the one-minute summary in others. I'll have to wait until I drive the 4 miles home, back into UK cyber-space, to check if it is the same there.
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There are many comments about expats, but this change does not just cause problems for expats. A great many people who live and work in the UK access the web whilst at their work, and many UK based companies use foreign based servers for accessing the internet. That means that many thousands of UK people now cannot access the UK edition. Please, please, please give us back the ability to select our own edition.
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What consultation was done on this? What warning was there that you were going to do this?
There are vast numbers of UK based users who access the internet through non-UK servers, and for whom the international version provides little of interest. I, for one, am quite prepared to have ads on a localised international version, but I object to being presented with an international version without any chance to change my location to my physical as opposed to cyber location. Surely that would be a better option? The customisation to give you the UK stuff is pretty poor. All the beeb needs is a disclaimer to say if your location is detected as non-UK but you customised the site to a UK location, you won't be able to access content the beeb has only a UK licence for.
This is a great way to alienate your viewership/readership...
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my viewpoint is from a simple usabilty one. I prefer the International homepage because it does not have the fixed banner in it. Everything else is moveable or removeable in the UK version why not let us remove that as well.
It is poorly sisted from a general user aspect in that it takes up too much room in a key place on the screen.
Let us choose.
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Right, so I just signed up to the BBC just to comment on this single thing.
This is really not cool at all. I have had news.bbc.co.uk as my homepage for years. Both while living in the UK and in the US. I would use both UK and International pages a lot but I have no intention of ever customising or even USING the BBC.com page - I already have an igoogle page that is much more flexible. I know the beeb wants to be a home page destination but this is exactly how NOT to do it.
And the whole point about news.bbc is that I want an editorial selection. I want to know the international headlines. Then maybe I want to know what the UK generally thinks is important. I don't want it dictated to me just because I'm in the UK and the BBC thinks that the UK is what I'm interested in. I admit it. I'm lazy. I don't care if I can still get the same content. I mainly look at headlines anyway and those extra couple of clicks are enough for me to click away to another website...
The NY Times for instance... they has just started doing what the BBC has just removed. I can get an international version and a US version.
Before I wrote this post I just changed my homepage after 10 years. So well done BBC news. You have just created one (and judging by the posts I'm not the alone) angry TV license paying customer AND lost page views from someone who visits the ad supported site too when traveling. Very good work. I may consider changing my homepage back if the change is reinstated.
But then again I might not. That's the problem these days on the internet... there's too much choice and when one place damages its customer trust by changes like this it's too easy to make loyalties with other sites who.
Companies on the web need to learn that _removing_ choice is not an acceptable way forward - at least not without a lot of warning, ground work and explanation. A blog post or two is not sufficient. Look at Twitter. Look at Facebook. Web consumers don't like changes they don't ask for to "improve" service by removing choice and options.
The model on the web is not broadcasting and there is massively more powere given to the consumer on line. So, after this one comment I don't expect to be on here nearly half as much as I used to be.
Hello NY Times and Google Reader, places where I get more options. Goodbye BBC News where I have them taken away.
And everyone: please RT this, and get more people to post here. I don't know where else to complain. See if we can get it changed back.
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I've never bothered to post a comment until now. Irritating, idiotic move, BBC. I'm an ex-pat in the US, and believe it or not, and painful as it might be to hear it, I can get perfectly decent international news coverage online from elsewhere. I use the BBC to keep up with **UK** news. The UK front page (which is NOT the same as the UK page currently available) has now gone, and I can't customise my home page for news and weather local to my friends and family. I bear with the ridiculous adverts (which convince me NOT to use the products and services that distract from my enjoyment of the website). I accept that there is some content that I cannot access overseas (although much of the time I fail to understand why not). Even so, I do not see why there should be this level of discrimination between ISPs. As for those of you whinging about overseas people not paying licence fees, that is a complete non sequitur. You don't need to pay your licence fee in the UK to receive the full content of the BBC website. For those of you based in the UK looking for international news, try CNN.
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Still far too much white space compared to the version before last. It means far too much scrolling. It pleases the web designers, but is a classic example of form-before-function. This is a NEWS website, not something that has to look pretty or win awards.
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17:10hrs and still no feedback from anyone within the BBC, very telling...
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Clearly the choice you made hasn't made things simpler for your readers.
I am an expat as well (who, before I'm attacked, would love to get back to the UK if I had the funds). I check the BBC News page a number of times a day because what I am missing is the BBC and the UK. As noted by others, if I just wanted international news, I could go elsewhere (or choose to read the international news on this website). What I want is the UK's BBC--that's why I come here!
I appreciate that you say I can find what I want through various clicks but what I want is to see what British Broadcasting finds most newsworthy, not what they think I would find most newsworthy. I imagine it's even more frustrating for people in the UK but with non-UK IPs. Come on, this seems a bit silly. Personally I don't know why there are two versions anyway--have the regular UK homepage and let us navigate as we want.
As far as the things I can't view as I'm in another country, let me assure you it's not really a hardship on me. If I get a message saying "This video is not available in your country," I don't experience any anxiety, rather I click to go to another page. That to me is quite simple.
That said, if you offered those videos for a fee to those in other countries, I would gladly pay it. Honestly.
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Boo Hiss - I like to be able to have the Interntional version as my home page, as I prefer to know what's going on in our World, not just in our back yard.
It has been pointed out to me that the international pages are still available; but the point is, I am not going to seek them out every time I open my browser. I want to skim the international news and then do what I gotta' do.
I thought the BBC was about choice?
Bad choice if you ask me.
Perhaps I should switch to Sky News for a home page?
II
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this will only lighten the load on the BBC's servers and reduce the cost of running the site which licence payers are paying for.
Message to waterloosydney:
Do you really think for one *TINY* moment that this is really what the BBC wants - to reduce the number of people around the world who are using their news website just to "reduce costs"??
Wake up and smell the coffee, dude! There are obviously many talented journalists, techies, moderators and other BBC employees who work hard in producing such high quality content for us (for which we are all truly grateful) and I do not believe they or BBC executives wish the fruits of their efforts to be viewed by less people.
But doing what they have done by imposing this draconian and quite simply discriminatory measure is sure to have this effect - just read above those people who have already switched their homepage to somewhere else like SkyNews.
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It seems that a sledgehammer has been used to crack a nut here. Like other correspondents I choose the BBC site because it IS a UK site. I want to read news about Scotland, and by using the postcode selector, I can make it even more specific. Or could! I feel that the whole issue should have been 'put on hold' until the international iPlayer question had been resolved. And if there is to be a pay for view site wait until then. This 'solution' is poorly thought through from the consumers point of view, although may be perfect for the BBC technicians.
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I am very disappointed with this decision! Please go back to the old version.
As a British citizen living and working abroad I always choose to view the UK version of the website and set the news to the region I come from in Britain (e.g. West Berkshire). That way I can still feel connected with friends and family back home. I now have to navigate through the news pages, a task that takes much longer and I can see that I will not bother in the future.
Youre assuming that ex-pats are only interested in international news when they are most probably coming to your site for local news, as I am.
I hope you will go back to the old version very soon.
Return the choice to the users.
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24 hours ago I was no 13 on the list. Now the comments are in the hundreds and the overwhelming majority oppose the changes you've imposed on us. And this is an imposition. No mention in the article that this change was to be made immediately. Where was the consultation? How many of your users and readers did you ask about this? Where was the advance warning? This is the BBC at its most paternalistic. And it is such a shame from the world's greatest broadcaster. Please think again. You seem to have given no thought whatsoever to the diversity and diverse needs of your global audience.
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Firstly, I get very upset by web sites that insist you have the latest whiz-bank software before you can use them. What ever happened to the concept of the "internet for all"?
Secondly, try the sites of any of the UK newspapers for excellent coverage.
Thirdly, if the adverts and slow page downloads annoy you do the following:
1. Don't use Internet Explorer, but use Firefox instead (download from the Mozilla website).
2. Use the Add-ons Adblock Plus and Flashblock, which do as their names suggest.
Personally I shall continue to view the BBC site (as well as newspaper sites) unless it becomes too tiresome. I'm retired abroad, but still want to see what Brown is doing to my pension!
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#231
"this will only lighten the load on the BBC's servers and reduce the cost of running the site which licence payers are paying for."
How?! It will either make no difference or actually make the server load greater as people now 'click through' to the pages that they previously accessed...
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I'm not keen on these changes. I think that you at the BBC should be able by now, to get to grips with your web page technical issues. Having a choice between the versions was one of the reasons I enjoyed visiting your pages. Many Americans rely on the BBC for a unique and sound perspective. It is imperative that we continue to have full access to news as if we were living in the UK. Much of our US news coverage is fluffed up as entertainment. I think it is very important for Americans to have a look back at ourselves from your side of the sea. It is one of your responsibilities as world class leaders of cutting edge reporting to continue to offer this aspect of global news coverage. Eventually, I would like for you to perhaps offer an affordable fee for international viewers to access your news programs for live coverage as well.
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I can understand that the increasing complexity of rights issues makes some changes necessary.
The problem is that you conflate geolocation with British identity and therefore the right to see UK content.
The BBC really needs to think about identity management so that Licence Payers get to see content wherever they are - and others need to pay/see the adverts.
I'm writing this from Dublin and find it deeply frustrating that I can't see BBC easily. I sympathise that those who travel less perhaps shouldn't pay for the costs of making it possible - but given how many licence payers do travel and do use the net, it's time that aspect was sorted.
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Like many others, I live in the UK, pay my licence fee etc. But I'm often working in on client sites in the UK, but they route out via elsewhere so I have a non-UK ip address. On my mobile I use Opera Mini, so I appear to come from Sweden -- I already get Google adverts on my BBC news front-page.
The page I want to go to should contain UK and WORLD head lines, just like the current front page. The editor seems to think his change will help those outside the UK, even though his website is funded by UK residents. I can't see why it should have to change?
If you're so keen on this, why just not have another front page? Oh hold on, that's what we've already got and works really well. Still, I suppose someone has to justify their job.
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"For those of you with your internet access routed through a non-UK server (for example if you're in the UK and work for a company based overseas) you might look to our servers as though you are an international user, so you will see the international versions of pages. We recognise this may not be your preferred version, but there's the new UK headline section on the front page of the international version, as well as the link to UK news."
I fall into this category and this change has also moved me to post my first blog comment. One of several big flaws with this ill-thought move is that now all the other main sections - Business, Technology, Entertainment etc - are internationally focused too. Yes, I can bookmark UK news to by-pass the international homepage, but how do I get to the UK versions of these pages when they don't appear in the links list under UK news?
"...all the same content will be available as now so you'll still be able to get both UK and international news wherever you are..."
Sorry, I don't buy it. (Oh, forgot, yes I do - I'm a licence fee payer...) Change it back. Please.
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When the new login system which is on some of the blogs & message boards is rolled out are there any plans to roll it out to the main website? If so perhaps we could then store our location and other customisations. Maybe 'phone verification' or similar could be used in order for the UK version to still be shown when we try to access the site from 'outside the UK' (be that abroad or a ISP/server going via another country).
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I've just checked the BBC News home page with Opera 10 Turbo turned on -- I can only get the International version, because the turbo servers are in Sweden. I assume the BBC will now have to say that Opera is an unsupported browser.
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That's it. After having the BBC set as my home page since the mid-1990's, I've reset the home page to my Yahoo RSS feed with the ITN news, Sky News and Guardian sites at the top. The BBC's languishing off the bottom of the screen somewhere down the list, I doubt I'll be using it much any more.
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As an expat in the US I'm disappointed in the changes. Firstly, I want to see the BBC news from a UK perspective, and secondly, I no longer have a link to The Magazine on the Front Page (news.bbc.co.uk). If the BBC is supposed to be impartial, why are they discriminating what people see based on where they live?
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'For those of you with your internet access routed through a non-UK server (for example if you're in the UK and work for a company based overseas) you might look to our servers as though you are an international user, so you will see the international versions of pages. We recognise this may not be your preferred version,... '
I'm not actually too bothered which version of the web site I see. What I am bothered about is that because my internet access is routed thru a non-UK server, I also get adverts when I view your website. This only started happening today. Previously the only symptom of my being on a non-UK server was that I couldn't view iPlayer videos.
Is the BBC allowed to stream advertising to users of their website who are in the UK ?
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Arrogant fools. As a resident of The Netherlands, where we get BBC 1 and 2 on the cable, I'm not interested in the TV listings for BBC international. I just want to know what's on telly tonight!! Badly thought out and a step backwards.
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As a license paying ex-pat (I still have a UK abode) , I now find myself in the position of supporting the BBC via the license fee yet getting a reduced service due to the"improvements" that have been opposed on us living abroad.
Many of us appreciated the UK and international versions that were previously offered and now we are met with this dumbed down one size fits all nonsense. An improved service...hardly
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Despite the concessions made, the new website is still infintely worse than it was yesterday, or the day before, or any of the days back to when I first started using it in 1997 (expectations have increased since then).
I think most people are resigned to the fact that the days when this was the best website on the internet are long gone (some of the useful and interesting pages that I used to use, such as Get Writing, the extensive travel section and the up-to-date film reviews, had all gone extinct before I even left the UK). Yet despite this, and despite the infatuation with links to weird reddits and nowpublics at the bottom of the page, despite entire articles that suggest that the BBC website is actually now just an elaborate viral advert for Twitter, despite the accelerated devolution of the BBC and its website from a respected British icon to a purveyor of tragically irrelevant Londoncentric spaff about what it's like to be on "The Apprentice" or pointless silent mobile phone videos of Boris Johnson tripping over or entire theses on how wonderfully techoliterate Stephen Fry is, it was still worth persevering through. However, today's sudden switch from "still-a-pretty-good-website" to "website-that-requires-labyrinthine-searches-and-multiple-saved-favourites-to-get-to-what-used-to-be-a-click-away" is shocking, pathetic, and frankly depressing.
One thing you have succeeded in doing today though is allowing me to realise how good the CBC's website actually is for news given it's comparative size and funding (see my post #143 above: incidentally, wherever you log in from around the world, you get the news from a national, Canadian, perspective). It makes sense to get my international news from here, my home town news from the local paper's website in the UK, and my football news from fan websites. I'll continue to use the BBC homepage to listen to some radio shows and get recipes (in case you want a heads-up to know what to ruin next), but, honestly, there's no point in venturing any further in.
Genuinely, it's a shame.
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I am disappointed by this change. I did not like the original change but grew to like it, however I can quite understand why this new change has been done. I find the google ads a bit degrading to the BBC as every tom, dick and harry has them and as such it takes away the professionalism of the BBC news website (no disrespect to google).
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I am a UK expat living in Canada. I go to the BBC website to see what the UK's view of the world is. Although the new format gives us all the same news (but in different places) it does not give us the UK view of the world, the way the BBC presents the world to its UK viewers. That is precisely what I want from the BBC News website.
I too agree with other posters that the BBC is presuming far too much from geolocation of IP addresses. Just because you are living abroad does not mean you are no longer British.
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I am disgusted with this change. I have been using the BBC website from abroad for over 10 years. It is my site of choice. It is my chosen homepage. I use the iPlayer (for radio) for at least 6 hours a day, seven days a week. I've long understood that being abroad means being a second class citizen as far as the BBC website is concerned but the customisation (allowing those abroad to choose a UK or international version) was a great solution. This choice has now been robbed from me. Considering I can listen to BBC radio via other sites, I really don't have much need for the main site except through longstanding loyalty. That's a two-way street and if the BBC doesn't want to respect its vast international audience, then it may be time for us to look for another street.
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I'm the same as bupa98, expat based in the States, I loved the fact that I could get the news from a Brit perspective. That was my primary reason for visting the website.
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I am really disappointed by this change. For 6 years the UK home page has been my cyber link back to blighty. Please BBC, reconsider your decision
I am so upset that I have changed my homepage to a new site - http://www.bbc.co.uk/home/d/
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Great move BBC! :-( You've just managed to alienate both you're domestic and international audience with these changes. I live in Belgium, I'm not an expat, but I always turn to the BBC first to get the latest news from the UK. That's why I've always selected the UK version of the BBC News-homepage. And if I wanted a more international perspective, I had the CHOICE of turning to the international version. Now you've taking that choice away and I'm stuck with the international homepage. Well, I don't buy it! I can fully understand the fact that, for rights issues, I can't watch some video content on the site. But choosing for me which homepage I get to see, that's one step to far. I'm perfectly able to make the choice myself, thank you very much. I'm very, very dissapointed BBC! Give us back our right to choose!
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I have been comparing screen shots of various sections of the UK and international sites side by side, and in some sections such as 'Health' I can't find any links to some UK stories on the International site, even though they feature prominently on the UK site. (e.g. at time of writing, 3rd item in UK health section can't be found on either health or uk pages of international site).
I think you'll find this causes you a lot more headaches than it solves. You still have two separate sites, and users are being prevented from seeing content (yes it may be accessible but that's no good if you can't see it on the front pages). If you simply let people choose whether they want the UK site or foreign site then all of this would go away.
I'm off to find an alternative news source.
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Very disappointing. I'm in the UK, but I used to view the international version of the news website simply to avoid the boring and pointless domestic news. Who cares about UK showbiz and politics? I don't! Now, I have to click through it to read the stuff that interests me. A real shame! Guess I'll have to revert to CNN.
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I'm a Brit in the US. I've had news.bbc.co.uk bookmarked since 1997.
I understand that you want to reduce confusion, but you've taken away my UK-focused news page. This is not at all good.
Please, please, if you won't give us back the option on the homepage, at least create a URL (news.bbc.co.uk/uk_focused_homepage.stm or something) that we can bookmark to see the choice of stories you're giving to people inside the UK's borders.
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I feel this is major mistake to force an international page on visitors outside the UK. Please give us a choice. I'm a BBC license payer who works most of the year overseas. I go to the BBC News website to get news from home with the UK perspective. I understand this means you won't always be able to watch all video but I would rather face that than having to piece together what news is making headlines in the UK. Please reconsider this decision.
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Anyone know a good UK proxy?
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This was a lot of work just to write one comment. The Daily Mail makes it much easier!! I am very disappointed in the new setup. I live outside the UK and used the UK version. It was uncomplicated and direct.Guess I'll be using other news sites more and the BBC less. My philosophy is "If it isn't broken, don't fix it."
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Like many others, I am dismayed at this change: I gave up buying British Sunday newspapers that decided to have Irish editions. I live in Ireland but prefer to see British news on the BBC site. There are many other routes to international news. I have family in London, and want to have London as my location to follow the news there directly.
I cannot even use the frontpage TV section to check what is coming up on BBC 1,2, or 4, while I work on the computer, as only international content is listed. (There are links at the foot to BBC channels, but not to the simple listings that were previously there.)
Just to clarify, while broadcast BBC TV can be viewed in Ireland, on the internet few clips or programmes can be played. I recognise that this is reasonable, since those living outside do not normally pay a licence fee. I am prepared to live with advertisements. But I am dismayed at being walled up in an 'international' ghetto.
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This is crazy decision. I travel all the time and want to access the UK edition when I am overseas and now cannot. Also many of the locations in the UK that I use are routed through an overseas server.
I do pay a license fee and should be able to use the UK site whilst I am overseas. Also many of your programmes do not know stream on Real Player. Why is the BBC so restrictive? No other international broadcaster is.
Pathetic!
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Are you absolutely sure all the UK content is avsilable to international users. With respect to Video and Audio for example it was quite easy under the previous set up to play the UK BBC News at Ten if you accessed the UK version of the website (Not all UK video programs were iPlayer restricted). Now I am finding it difficult to find UK News at Ten. I have probably missed something here so any guidance would be most appreciated.
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Sometimes people make mistakes and need to admit to them instead of hiding behind a bunch of very weak and unconvincing excuses. This is one of them. Clicking extra links and finding all the same articles oneself? Come on!
If I wanted to find the same articles myself I'd read Google News. Having a UK front page that's accessible to international viewers is just so much more valuable than this thinly veiled claptrap you're spouting.
Actually, it's probably just a simple ruse to make the editors' jobs simpler so they can go on holiday. You can't fault them for that, if this were old Yugoslavia...
Really, what's the real reason? Technical issues are not it, unless you've got a really bad technical team, and I know you don't. BBC, you've pulled a Facebook.
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I have to say I'm disappointed by this unilateral decision. I'm in the UK half the year and abroad (by 20 miles over the channel in France) for the other half. I like to keep tabs on the UK locations I've left behind. You've just trashed that...
Not happy.
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You don't seem to get it. I don't want to have to click on the UK page to get UK news. I liked the fact that when I logged onto the BBC news site I got headlines that cover a variety of topics both International and UK; I don't want only international headlines. If I only wanted International headlines,I'd use another website.
Please find a way to go back to the old method where I can choose if I want to see the UK or International site. The only people that seem to want this change is you guys at the BBC.
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This is a genuinely dreadful decision. By doing this, you're instantly disabling all the value for British people who are, for one reason or another, outside the country.
I've been reading BBC News since it launched, and this is the first time I've genuinely found myself considering moving to another site for my homeland news.
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Why do you insist on making these ridiculous changes? I DO NOT want the International site...and your excuses are ludicrous in the extreme. What is the real problem with our being able to choose to connect to the UK site? Stop the changes now...do your job properly, or let someone else do it!
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I find this new direction very disappointing. As an Englishman living in Dublin I am still very much interested in getting my news from the UK via BBC News. Now I am faced with stories from across the globe being upped in importance just because I am not on a UK IP address. I see fewer sport stories on the news homepage, new advert placement means useful content on the right hand side gets shifted down, and the vaunted UK section is so ludicrously "below the fold" as to make it useless.
The BBC should stop messing about and implement a paid subscription service for people abroad who want to consume it's services in the way they wish. The fact that I can watch BBC television in the ROI but not pay a UK licence fee, whilst I can't access iPlayer or now the UK news is absurd. I'd quite happily pay a subscription to do so.
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I don't know if this will ever be read by the BBC, but like all the other hundreds of complaints about this change, I am in total agreement. Its like the BBC have disowned expats. I have always been a big defender of the BBC, but now maybe I should disown you. What you fail to see is that many expats like to stay in touch with the UK, you have with no reasonable reason, without consultation decided to change things. As many others are saying, GOODBYE BBC.
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Sorry but this is a terrible decision.
Removing choose from users is never a good step.
Whatever happened to the old adage that "the customer is always right"
I'm British living outside the UK and I appreciated the option to CHOOSE my location.
This is a case of software developers forcing their opinion on the end users. Very poor!
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In your update, you make the point - in italics nonetheless - that "all the same content will be available as now so you'll still be able to get both UK and international news wherever you are". This, however, is patently not true.
You cannot now get the editorial judgement of what are the most important stories of the day from a UK perspective that you used to get in the top half of the UK version.
This is simply not available on the International version. Don't you understand this? Or do you just not care?
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The complains of ex-pats and foreign users, of which neither group pays the licence fee and so can't really complain when something they don't pay for changes, is clouding the issue.
The real annoyance is that this is affecting a sizeable minority of UK licence fee payers who are now getting an annoying, sub-par experience.
It's just not good enough to effectively say "If you're routing through a foreign ISP then tough luck" and then sticking a few links in to replace missing features and shoving ads in our faces.
And I can't see how forcing users to click many times more to get to content is decreasing the load on your site.
How can we get this ridiculous decision reversed?
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Well. well. Anyone here been following the fiasco on the Radio 4 homepage? Plenty of constructive criticism there abkut the lousy redesign. Result? The designer geeks know best, and it stays the same. No answer to the main question about annoying photos. Totally unsatisfactory responsivenss. So not we have the story repeated across the board. Personally, I dislike all the redesign and avoided the BBC homepage, going instead to the Radio homepage (whence I can connect to listen to R4 without going to the horrible R4 homepage). Now this is no longer possible. Well done, everyone!
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mblm73 -- just because many on this site are expats or foreigners doesn't mean that they don't also also pay the licence fee for their UK residences. And I know of many outside the UK who would gladly pay the UK licence fee in order to access BBC TV, radio etc.
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Just to add another voice to the large number of people upset at the change. The comments about ex-pats not paying the license fee and therefore having no right to an opinion seems slightly short sighted. The model to generate money from visitors outside the UK is to sell advertising. The more visitors to the site the more advertising you sell. Deciding to annoy what seems to be a significant proportion of your audience for what is essentially a technological convenience isn't a good move. Looking forward to seeing the UK & World options come back when the hits and the revenue start to trail off.
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To mblm73:
Why can expats not complain? Given that the BBC (in common, to the best of my knowledge, with every other public service broadcaster in the world) doesn't block us from viewing the site, and presumably in fact therefore wants us to view it, why shouldn't we comment on the content and structure of the site just like anyone else?
In addition and in any case, we also contribute to the running costs of the site by being viewers of the advertizing which the BBC sells on pages served to non-UK IP addresses.
So your argument is completely flawed and really not worth making.
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I really think you have missed the point of why expats had the news set to a UK view. We wish to get the news as our fellow brits do, if i wanted an international perspective i would visit any number of different websites. I am sure you are well intentioned but I will be interested in see how your web stats move in the coming weeks, I for one noticed the difference immediately and will be spending less time on BBC news if I have to hunt for the British content maybe I'll switch to one of the newspapers instead to get that uniquely British feel for the news.
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What have China, Iran, Cuba, Burma and the BBC got in common?
Internet censorship
Disgraceful
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Another ex-pat based in Belgium.
We recieve the BBC on the cable system so I'm positive that part of the money we pay here goes back to the BBC, so feel fee to comment.
This is a retrograde step for those Brits currently living outside the UK. What purpose does this change serve? My homepage is BBC News, I want to see UK news first and look for international news. Not the other way round.
Please just change it back!
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And even if you forget about us nasty expats, what about UK-resident licence fee payers who are just outside the UK on holiday... or on business... or temporarily studying... or visiting family... or whatever on earth they want to do outside the UK?
Why shouldn't these people be able to continue viewing the UK version of the BBC news site? Just for your technical convenience?
This is an utterly bizarre decision for which I believe there is no precedent anywhere else in the world and one which I think you are going to come to regret.
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guardian.co.uk is looking very appealing right now... maybe that is the intention of these changes... but then why not just block the site to all those from outside the UK?
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Mr Herrmann, Thanks for the update - but I need help. If it is really true that as you say "And, to repeat what I said in my original post, all the same content will be available as now so you'll still be able to get both UK and international news wherever you are." Please tell me where to go to view the regular BBC1 news broadcasts that I used to be able to get via the audio/video section on the UK version of the site. I have looked hard but cannot find any way to get to it. Thanks in advance!
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Awful, awful change. *Please* consider the vast majority of comments on this site and put it back how it was.
Just saying that the same content is available isn't good enough. It's not just the content itself, it's the layout and presentation of the content that matters. Like many people who have commented here, I spend a lot of time outside the UK. When I'm abroad, I want to be able to see the site laid out in the same way that someone in the UK does - it's a good link with home. Why is that so hard to do? I don't mind not being able to view the odd bit of video content when I'm outside the UK, but I object strongly to having a differently structured site foisted on me because I've gone somewhere else for a bit.
It's a fundamentally wrong design decision to *force* the user to access the site in a different way based on the geographical location of the accessing IP. The previous approach was correct - default the appearance of the site based on looking at the accessing IP, but then allow the user to change it with a single click and then store that preference for subsequent visits. There was no need to change anything, and there is no way in which what you have done can be regard as an "improvement". You've broken something useful.
Put it back!
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You say that the content is exactly the same. Well how come I cant watch Odd Box any more? How come none of the video links work? How come I cant watch any of the sport vidoes? I dont want UK centric news, I am not narrow minded or stupid or whining, I just want full access to the BBC. I pay my license fee and I dont expect to get cut off just because I leave the country for work. This is truly cheating license payers out of their rights. Give us back our full access and stop falling back on pathetic excuses about technical problems. We are not all as stupid as you think.
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Sorry BBC, but I consider this action a joke. As an expat living in South America, being able to view my local BBC website homepage made life that little bit better. You have already blocked all the content you want viewres outside the UK not to see, so why have to go this extra step of making us feel less British.
Not Impressed At All
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Simply put, i don't want to read international news. I live abroad, and I want to read UK news from a UK perspective. I don't want to have to filter through a load of boring international news to find it.
Guardian.co.uk just got busy.
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" ... all the same content will be available as now so you'll still be able to get both UK and international news wherever you are ... "
It's *not* about content, as has already been made clear several times on this thread (do you seriously think we're incapable of navigating around the site?).
Reading a news website, or paper, is not simply about sucking up content: it's also about being able to see editorial judgements and being able to weigh stories against each other in terms of relative importance. I presently have no idea from looking at your site whether the Afghanistan story or the Kinsella murder verdict would be the lead on the UK version. Perhaps it's even the West Bromwich wobble or swine flu - there's no way of telling, because the editorial judgements of the UK version aren't accessible to me anymore. If I want to know what the news agenda is in the UK, I'll have to go to another site, and the same goes for people in the UK who've lost their international version.
The comments on this thread show that ability to choose editorial perspective is very important to many readers. Please at least show that you understand what we're talking about.
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I live in Japan, and due to your unwarranted change, I can no longer watch video clips of news items which you invite me to WATCH. When I click on them, now I just get a blank space. In this age of the internet, what difference should it make where I live? Why create more boundaries?
BBC, listen to the complaints and earn praise by reversing this change!
Or at least cease to offer me stuff I cannot watch! Now that really is a waste of my time.
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I actually registered to have a whinge about this. Like many other posters, I am a Brit living abroad. I always set the homepage to the UK version so that I could get to stuff that interested me more quickly. It was good seeing regional (UK) news at a glance. Now I have to click through a couple of pages.
I don't understand why you thought it necessary to remove choice, which from the user's point of view is actually what has happened.
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I don't really care if I can see UK news anyway. I had the page all set up the way I liked it. It made me feel that I was at home instead of here in LA. The change is paternalistic and presumptuous. I neither need nor want some over-officious, can't-leave-well-enough-alone techie telling me how I want to look at things. This used to be one of my favourite sites. But no more. And yes -- I did go to all the trouble of registering just so I could leave this comment and never darken your doorstep again.
From now on it's just The Guardian, Independent and Times for me. At least they don't spoon-feed me what they THINK I should see. You seem to forget you are not the only game in town.
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Go back to the old version. This is terrible! I am British and like many expats I want to see the same site as my friends and relatives in the UK NOT what you the BRITISH broadcasting corporation decide I should see because I happen to live abroad. I don't give a flying toss about Afghanistan, I've never been there and I never will BUT I do passionately care about the news that affects my pension, my taxes, my friends and relatives who are all in the UK. If I'd wanted your international version I would have chosen the international version or gone to BBC World. Now I have no choice. Thanks for nothing.
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DREADFUL change. The beauty of news on the web is getting the PERSPECTIVE of different countries. I always viewed the UK version of the BBC site from here in the USA. When I want a US view I can look at the New York Times (or similar). The ability to compare and contrast different country's views is one of the rich features of the web and contributes to International understanding. DUMBING the editorial skew to an international front page is a dangerous generalisation.
I understand you have layout issues with placing of adverts on the foreign viewed pages - but your recent switch to Google Ads which were placed in a block seemed to be well placed.
And for the more technically savvy - the media licencing restrictions are easily beaten through proxy servers. The last decent reason for doing so being the International Olympic Committee's overly onerous market restrictions, coupled with lack of coverage of some sports in countries which did not have well placed teams. The only way to see sailing from America was to proxy onto the BBC site.... I don't know why you put up with the licensor's restrictions!
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This new change saddens me greatly. I am currently outside of the UK and liked to have the UK BBC site as my homepage, I liked the full customisable access I had until today. What happened to the 'Set my Location' button. This allowed users to have a choice, now we have less.
Having the UK BBC helped me deal with being homesick, it is not just having access to the UK news but also it is nice to see what is on TV and being able to see what is happening where my friends and family are whilst I am on the other side of the world.
I think you should allow users to still have the choice to customise back to the UK version as before.
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I realize that you've made your change and there's little anyone really can do about it....but the original format was, for the viewer, an easy way to use the site.
Now, as an international viewer who wants a U.K. page, I've got to do a lot more work to find the information.
And, just for the record, I would be DELIGHTED to pay a fee for the use of the iPlayer. It's just that, like this format change, the BBC isn't giving me the option.
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I feel the same as many of the other people (namely expats like myself) who have posted their comments. Please consider making the UK version available to those of us who are, for whatever reason, outside the UK. I don't see (believe) that technical issues of content management should out-weight choice and meeting you audience's desires.
I want UK news and features - there are plenty of other choices for international news (including www.bbcworldnews.com) After all, you are the BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation - If anything, the UK version should be the default! For many of us you are a major link to our homeland - and we want to see exactly what our fellow Brits are seeing from within the UK.
Until you work out rights issues, we'll put up with "story not available" - and like many others here have said, I would be happy to PAY a licensing fee to see all UK content and have access to BBC TV content via i-player again.
For once, listen to your audience and put things back as they were.
I'm both highly disappointed and disgusted.
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The changes may be insignificant compared to many of the world's more pressing problems, but come across as bizarre and retrograde nevertheless.
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I'm not here to whinge about stylistic changes or the license fee, but I have a technical question
Why can I no longer access any embedded video content? The links remain on the international version I now have to use, I click on the video and audio sections and when I go to the page there s just a white space where the player should be
I used to be able to access BBC news clips and other content, such as Oddbox, which I deliberately checked to compare - and none of it worked - is this a technical issue or has all video been removed for non-UK visitors? I have tried three different browsers and two OS's, all up to date with media players
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The new version is ABSOLUTELY rubbish.
whoever designed it needs to be fired, this is clearly an example of meddling for the sake of it, someone who wants to perpetuate their job.
I live in Hong Kong but I've only been here a year, so London news, UK Sport etc are all important to me... that headline "In your area" thing you had was great. Please bring it back
Also I can't get to the Magazine section any more
If you're going to meddle with things and make them crap at least give us the option to OPT OUT and choose the old version.
Thanks for prescribing to me exactly what you know to be best... who is your web developer? Gordon Brown?
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I have a BBC subscription through Real Player and use it to watch BBC News at Ten. Now I can't get to that program from the USA. Of course, I enjoy the site as a whole but that program was my main reason for visiting No offense but I don't want to watch programming tailored for Americans. I wanted to watch the news as it was being seen in GB. It's hard enough over here to get unbiased TV news coverage and I relied on the BBC. If there is something I am missing, please let me know. Thanks
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I gave up counting but of the first 50 responses... there were 34 complaints.
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As an Ex-pat, I do not like this new format. That said will I be able to set up the homepage as I had it before with my hometown weather and also the local news items for Bristol and Somerset. I also used the television schedule so that when I rang home I didn't interrupt shows that I know our Mum and Dad watch. I'm interested in the UK news and sports. This has always been the place to go for these items in one place, not hunting through pages of websites.
Being home for all of March each year I like to keep in touch with all the local news and sports.
Having just looked at the new site, so far, I am not impressed. It has always been my homepage.
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Another ex-pat here, and I don't like this new format either, and I fully echo the comments of Wurzel44, above. This just seems to be the usual meddling of geeks just because they can. There was nothing wrong with the previous incarnation of the site.
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Can you make the video/links/featured section (I dont know what to call it) that appears in the top right of the uk version customisable. I preferred the international version because it didn't have this and now I have no choice. Everything else can be moved so why can't this??
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I hope everyone fills in the user survey and requests that the button return in the comments box.
And to reiterate points other people have made - I was content to endure adverts for various airlines etc. to view reports. However, half of these seem to have disappeared.
As I said above, I'll get a VPN account now (particularly when Setanta goes bust, as it appears to be, and I want to see the goals from Scottish football) and download more off UKNova.com. Either way, your advertising hits and revenue are going to be hit and, who knows, perhaps your jobs might be cut in the process.
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BTW, isn't one of the reasons for a blog existing is for the writer to interact with their audience? Care to comment BBC?
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This is a poor decision and I am heartended to see so many want the original UK site back. As with other expats, the UK version of the site has always been my first port of call multiple times a day. Importantly seeing the news (international and UK domestic on the SAME PAGE) from a UK EDITORIAL perspective is vitally important (an aspect I am sure techies completely over look). By alienating expats you may have reduced readership and thus viewers to see your adverts (which I am sure your advertisers will not be pleased about). Unless this is changed, I will have to use timesonline or telegraph's online site for my regular news source.
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I am spectacularly unhappy about this. I am an expat and I like to see what the BBC is presenting to people back home. Although I appreciate that all content is available I want to see what the front page is back home, what the BBC thinks is the most important stories to present to its core audience. The new international page looks good, but not to give us the opportunity to see what is being presented back home is a step too far.
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The apparent assumption by several commentors that those accessing the BBC website from outside the UK are not contributing financially in any way is absurd and ignorant: not only are all the BBC television channels we receive fully commercial, and stacked with several-years old content, but we also receive cut versions of BBC content in order to make way for advertisements, AND we can only access BBC television content through premium subscription services offered by BBC Worldwide through various local operators. We receive nothing like the volume or range of content that UK viewers and listeners get, and we can wait many years to see content, if we get it at all.
I am neither a UK citizen nor an expatriate, but like many others who have commented, I frequently used the "UK Version" of the BBC news website precisely for its easily accessible UK content, and I was never in the least bothered by coming up against a "UK only" link when doing so.
The BBC - especially the news website - has been a source of content with international reach and reputation, and my first choice when I wanted to provide someone else with a link to a story, and this decision can only dilute that reach and reputation, throwing up barriers, and further undermining the notion of the international internet.
Shame!
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I only access the BBC News site for the British perspective on local and international stories. I want to see it exactly how my friends in the UK see it.
This is purely driven by the BBC wanting to force all international users to drive up page views for their adverts. Fair enough - many of us don't pay a TV licence. I don't really care whether adverts appear on the page or not. So why not design the main UK site so that it can identify a foreign IP address and shove the adverts in?
I currently log onto the BBC news site at least 6 times a day. Now that I don't have a use for the site, I'm going to only log in once every couple of days to check if you've reinstated the button to choose UK view.
Take that, advertisement page view stats!
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This just gets better and better...
From the bbc...
If you still are experiencing problems with the website contact us here...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/help/site_versions_feedback.shtml?from=http://news.bbc.co.uk/
when you try to fill in the form it says that a field is missing (even though it isn't)so you can't leave feedback.
Well done coders... ruin the front page and break the feedback link.
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The thing I find infuriating about the BBC site is that you only have one link under each section of news (e.g. Technology/Asia-Pacific etc etc). I could potentially be interested in a story in any section but I don't have time to dig through every section just on the off-chance.
Why don't you include more links under each heading - they'd take practically no space? People could see at a glance the one or two stories which they were interested in spend their time reading not digging.
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Steve Herrmann said:
"So why bother with the change? Because the option allowing you to choose "site versions" (which relatively few of you actually chose to use) has started to lead to some potentially frustrating experiences for you, as well as some significant technical complications for us."
It would appear from comments that many, many of us actually chose to use the different "site versions", Steve. And for the record, I never had any frustrating experiences in doing so. I am now. I guess your use of "potentially" was prescient.
BTW, none of the video is working for me now. All is white space. On International, Video and Audio link and the UK link.
The Guardian is looking better by the minute. My fear is that this blunder will drive more UK ex-pats to US news, which isn't all bad, but let's face it - Stewart/Colbert are the most respected newsy ones there.
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This change is pathetic, first you introduced adverts which fortunatly i managed to block, now I cant read the news for the uk, im a brit citizen living in NZ, you dont cover NZ news, I get this from NZ sites, I want to see whats going on at home, quite frankly I dont care about the international news you publish hence why I used the UK version of the site, now your forcing me to read the other crap im not interested about. Doubtfull I will remain looking at this site, already got rid of the RSS feeds, pointless now
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Sadly along with this change, the BBC news team haven't changed their policy of publishing everything US/ I see the headlines today are US prefer talks over N Korea (likely story), US set for digital switch over (like the International community cares), US backs historic tobacco curbs (again, U doubt that the International community care that much about that(. Its actually a bit better then normal, normally we see things like taxi driver in New York shot.
Come on BBC news team, as this is an International news site, do you not think it should be International and not concentrating on the US, the world is a big place and does not revolve around the US. Don't be like CNN.
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"So why bother with the change? Because the option allowing you to choose "site versions" (which relatively few of you actually chose to use) has started to lead to some potentially frustrating experiences for you, as well as some significant technical complications for us."
I would have thought it would be more complicated to have GEOIP detection then to have a button allowing people to change from the UK version to the International version. I also very much doubt the point made that few of us chose to change between site versions, but then this may be true of all 6.8 billion people on the planet. I find this whole statement from Steve Herrmann ridiculous.
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These changes are unacceptable. When I am abroad, as I often am, I want to see my local weather and local news on the main page. Why would I want to see the weather in London? I also like to see Radio 4 listings, not the world service.
Finally, I don't mind if a video clip isn't available outside the UK. The general public are not stupid and we understand copyright.
You should sort this out, or like a lot of people, I'll change my home page to something more useful.
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What I am about to write is not that different to what many above have (more eloquently!) already said, HOWEVER I do believe that the only way to force change is for more voices to join the protest. This will (hopefully) move the powers-that-be to have a change of heart and go back to a system which suited the needs of all - whether in the UK or abroad - and I have just spent the last hour and a half ploughing through the existing comments, registering and writing my own comment.
I am an ex-pat, having moved from the UK in 1997, but with very strong ties to "home" (family and friends there, still owning a property, paying taxes, having investments and a pension there). I have had the BBC Homepage as my personal homepage, both at home and work, for quite a few years, and was completely dismayed when I logged on yesterday, to see that it had switched to an international version, without giving me the option to select my location using the postcode feature. The international news stories interest me far less than UK domestic stories - I want to keep in touch with home! I also loved having the UK terrestrial TV channels on my customised page, as I am able to view the free-to-view channels using satellite here.
I can understand why certain people have a problem with ex-pats wanting, or being already able, to view BBC content that UK viewers have to pay a licence fee for, but I am convinced that charging a fee to enable the iPlayer for viewers oversees would be not just solve this issue, but would also be acceptable and warmly-welcomed by the swathes of ex-pats (and other interested nationalities). It could also provide a whole new source of (much-needed?!) income for the Beeb.
PLEASE PLEASE listen to all these comments BBC. We don't want to have to go elsewhere. We appreciate your standards of journalism and broadcasting and we want you to continue to be the best. You need to think who you are doing this for though.........US!
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As an international user, like 298 (Tarquin), I am no longer able to watch videos like OddBox, but also photo series like in "Day in Pictures". I get a window with a blue bar and no photos.
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The Silence from Steve Herrman to the (so far)319 comments 95% of which are complaints is deafening.
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I can understand the rationale - but looking at this from the perspective of a UK license payer who is currently working abroad it's a really retrograde step.
You say that all the information is still available, but whereas it was available in one place now I have to go to a number of places. It's less easy to use - even the Politics section has been moved away from the main homepage options and hidden in the UK section.
Surely the purpose of the BBC is to focus on British license payers ? The primary focus should be the UK version which everyone should have access to. If non-UK citizens want to look elsewhere on the news site for content then they can do so. But why make it more difficult for UK citizens ?????
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I'm an ex-pat with strong ties to the UK through family and friends. A discussion topic with many of them, when talking on the telephone, would be stories published on BBC News Online. It was also a regular topic of conversation with my recently passed away father, who was house-bound for the last few years. I'm sure I'm not alone in this phenomenon.
I've also tested the site via a UK proxy and the idea that the news and editorial content (forgetting copyrighted audio/video) is still available, just via a different route, is farcical to say the least...disingenuous at best.
So, yes, you can say that these changes are needed to make the site run properly, but in doing so you have taken away its soul...the reason why many people, abroad and in the UK, found it worthwhile to use. You now have a better running site with a worse user experience...congratulations.
P.S. For those people complaining that ex-pats/foreigners shouldnt have a say in this because we don't pay a license fee...well many of us fund the BBC through cable subscriptions, and lets not forget those lovely ads that we have to put up with on all pages and non-copyrighted video content.
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I commute between UK & Belgium = I pay UK licence and I pay specifically extra for BBC on cable in Belgium. The international version is annoying with the ads etc but was liveable with the UK switch helping to reduce the inconvenience. Now,No videos, No I-player and no links to UK domestic TV and Radio services from home page. Definitely worse and harder to use in last few days
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I'm really annoyed about this. As an ex ex-pat now in the UK having the international version was one way of cushioning myself from the banality of UK news. Of course I can do this by simply accessing Al Jazeera or something similar but I enjoyed feeling the bbc valued this option too. I also worry that a mixed front page will creep towards dominant UK fodder... worrying timing, isn't it Big Brother season again!?
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I'm sure this comment will not be posted, however I am so irritated by the high-handed manner in which the BBC have imposed this change on me that I actually registered in order to make my views known.
I am English but living in Sweden. I want to see the UK news as it is shown in the UK, and fail to see why this choice has been taken away. Viewers have had the choice of 'international' or 'UK' content for the two years I've been abroad, why are there suddenly 'technical issues' about providing this choice?
Please, BBC, don't ignore the comments on this page and change back to giving viewers the choice.
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As a British citizen currently living in Dublin, I read a lot of international websites specifically to find out how the world looks from that country's perspective. So I'm not looking for "international content", I'm looking for the news from different, local viewpoints. The BBC is diluting its identity by trying to be all things to all people - a kind of British CNN. Not my cup of tea at all. I've been finding the Guardian a better resource recently for the British perspective, and this change to the BBC website just makes that all the clearer.
(Someone earlier mentioned that the BBC broadcasts free of charge to Ireland. This is true - at least, we receive it through our Sky subscription - but we are still unable to access the iPlayer. I would willingly pay a fee for this service.)
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Like several others here I have been so annoyed by this change that I have registered specifically so that I can complain. Just because I am not in the UK, does not mean I have any less interest in what is going on there both on tv/radio and in the news; quite the opposite in fact!! If I want an international perspective on the news I can read Dagens Nyheter and Svenska Dagbladet; I want to know what I'm missing on TV and what's happening in the UK at a glance and I want to know the weather in my home town - not London, the only option in the UK for the international version!!!
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To make grand assumptions about what the readers want to see based on their IP digits is an error of judgement. It's obvious that there are lots of UK readers whose PCs go through international servers or are oversees on business. Why force us to faff around like this?
Bad call!
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Another side effect of this botched implementation of IP apartheid appeared late yesterday evening on the blogging threads.
The BBC blogs now all load with the old blooging model with IE8 detecting errors on every page [is some javascript not found, perhaps], the Preview option missing and the URL changing after posting as partially described in my #84 on the New ways into blogs thread. Fellow posters on the Blether with Brian blog have confirmed that this has not happened to the UK posters.
Is "auntie" planning to remove our ability to converse with our compatriots, I wonder?
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
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"All the same content is available"
NOT TRUE
- Where are the UK based topics for have your say.
- Where is the ability to focus on my UK postcode (Yes, I have one AND pay a UK license Fee).
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Like others, I have felt compelled to register to express my annoyance at this change. As an ex-pat in Holland for two years and Denmark for five before that, the BBC news page has been my home page and first stop for UK news every morning. It has been a superb service that I greatly appreciate (and note, as an English user abroad, I would happily pay to access iPlayer video content - why is this not being tried as a revenue stream?!!). If I cannot see UK news straight up and am only offered the international page (and it really isn't enough that you have provided the 'News from the UK' section) when I visit the BBC news site then I will be changing my home page.
So my questions to the editors are these: in light of the fact that there have been 330 overwhelmingly negative comments in less than two days, what are you going to do about it? Will you revoke the changes and continue with a site that users abroad want?
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I'm in the UK and use AOL as my ISP . It appears if I use the AOL browser (my usual preference) it treats me as if I'm outside the UK and I can't get into the business or UK tabs on the left of the "news front page" . But if I use the I.E. browser it treats me as if I'm in the UK and it offers the "world" tab and all other tabs are working .
??????
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I would like to add my voice to those who think this is a very poor change. I am one of the UK-based people whose access is via the US (due to working for a US company) and I always used to change to the UK page BECAUSE I AM IN THE UK. Can't the BBC understand this? And my brother is British but lives in the US. Why shouldn't he be able to access the UK news? This whoile charade is a big joke.
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Why not go the whole hog - like some other sites - and assume that because my IP address is in Germany that I want to read everything in German !!
You see - it could be worse (not much) !!
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As a brit abroad for 8 months of the year, I find this change disappointing too - I want to see UK news first and foremost and will have to consider usng another news site.
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A very bad move indeed. I'm not even abroad, and I get the International version (I think our work servers all happen to be an internal network, with the link to the Internet being located abroad). When I'm genuinely abroad I'd switch to the UK version, seeing as I'm generally more interested in the news back home. There's no real excuse here. If you're finding it difficult to maintain two versions and a simple switch I'm surprised you manage to keep the site up at all - it shouldn't be remotely difficult.
Another backward step from the BBC, following not too far on from the dreadful weather forecast page changes that no longer show everything quickly and simply, and the removal of the "what's on" page as an obvious place to see what's being broadcast.
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Just to throw this into the pot ... are the BBC not opening themselves up for legal action?
I mean you are in the UK, you pay your licence fee (for all those whinging on about that), your ISP/ network provides you with an non-UK IP address.
The BBC shows you the International web site (which they obviously want to go down the paid subscription route)
Are the BBC now not failing in carring out their Charter?
This is definatly not a user experince change, if so publish the results of the focus groups.
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Oh, I forgot to add a complaint about the most odious aspect of all - the BBC are now deciding what version I want to see, not myself.
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Is it at all possible for the BBC to generate a URL for the individually customised version of the BBC Homepage, which can then be transferred across to other machines. A user could configure their homepage on a desktop then send the desktop URL link across to their laptop so that the site appearance is identical on each machine without having to 'mess around' with preferences on the second (and subsequent machines).
Thanks.
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Just a note on "licence fee payer"
It does not mean what it says according to the BBC Trust. Heres what they say.
In the BBC's Royal Charter it states that
"...reference to a "licence fee payer" is not to be taken literally but
includes, not only a person to whom a TV licence is issued...but also
(so far as is sensible in the context) any other person in the UK who
watches, listens to or uses any BBC service, or may wish to do so in the
future".
Curiously a TV License is not issue to a person. I have two!!
However the point is 'persons' 'in the UK' and 'listens' (so radio is included)
Its rather like 'taxpayer'
I think along with Gregg Dyke think this sort of language is nonsense and we ought to give it up and say BBC Services Users in the UK which is what it means.
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Are the BBC now dictating what browser I have to use in the UK if I wish to receive everything because of my preference to AOL ?
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I've just now discovered that the BBC Homepage (the UK version set for Liverpool for weather & local news)has gone. I currently live outside the UK. The ability to customize according to preferences was a long admired feature of the site and let me see most of what I wanted to see directly from the start page. I am very disappointed in the changes. A backward step indeed.
The blog states, "You'll still be able to get to popular indexes like England, Scotland and Magazine by following the UK link on the section navigation at the left of the front page." I do not see any such navigation aids on the new homepage. I miss the connection the old homepage gave me to family, friends and just local stories.
These comments will not persuade those who made these decisions to relent. "The button is going." I'm surprised the editors blog ommitted, "like it or lump it".
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I've found out something else that blows...
if (as it's claimed) we can still see the UK news by hitting the UK subsection... this then means we can't see the scrolling news headlines.
Also why is UK the 7th option on the list.
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Please change it back!!!
I am a UK expat living in the middle east and when I go on to the BBC website it is to get a British take on what is happening in the world. I do the same when it comes to television news - as I cannot watch BBC News 24 (only BBC World) I choose to watch SKY news. If the BBC website continues like this I may start using the SKY news website.
I do not want to have to make twice as many selections just to get to UK Politics or Scottish news. My version of the previous site was UK version that I chose...I wish to still have that choice.
It never bothered me that iPlayer services were not available to overseas users (although I would of course take advantage of these given the option) so fail to see the point of this change.
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Absolutely appalling decision. I am a UK licence payer viewing a UK news website from a UK address but because my ISP is American I have to wade through a lot of nonsense about Madonna's babies and stories about Iran etc. before I can get to the key stories about the UK. And, worse still, this new version seems to be full of java bugs and runtime errors
I pay the same licence fee as everyone else. Why should I recieve a second rate service?
I can't customise the bbc news page, only the bbc.co.uk page, and I already have enough bookmarks before having to create half a dozen new ones to replicate the old BBC News homepage.
When I log on I want an upfront summary of all the key stories affecting me, as a UK citizen, taxpayer and licence fee payer, but its seems the BBC cares not for that basic right and in future I will have to go to SkyNews and filter out the Murdoch bias to get it
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Add me as another expat who thinks this is a dismal and disappointing decision. Like many other commenters, I go to the BBC News website not purely to see UK news, but to see it *from a UK perspective*. (Anyone who doesn't understand the distinction should read Glaistig's excellent comment (No. 42).) I also share a lot of the irritation expressed in previous comments about the BBC's willingness to take a decision like this without any consultation whatsoever with the website's readers.
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Thanks for all your comments. I hope you have spotted that I posted replies yesterday to the main points you've raised - they are under my original post above. In the meantime, we've had some problems with video and the ticker - we're sorry about that - they weren't related to the changes, and they should now be fixed.
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Steve, you may have *replied* to the points raised, but you haven't really *addressed* them. If you were having technical issues with the two different versions of the site, why did you not get your techies to sit down and figure out a new way which would work, but would still allow the choice for international users?
At the moment, I pay a company 6 pounds per month for UK VPN access to allow me to view the UK version of the news website and iPlayer content. I would be more than happy to instead pay this to the BBC *if I were given the opportunity to*. But at the moment, you give me no choice!!!
Please, please, please put things back the way they were, at least until your technical guys can figure out a better way to fix the technical issues.
For once, PLEASE LISTEN TO YOUR USERS!
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If it ain't broke don't fix it! I would imagine that 99% of the oveseas users know that they could not access programmes to view, so what? which seems to be your biggest problem with the UK international version. I had BBC set to my homepage so at a glance everytime I switch on the information about where I was in the UK was displayed. No we have 'navigate' to find out all the info we used to get infront of us, like local news and how the weather is. Silly little thing i know but it was the ONLY reason I had BBC set as my homepage. Being English and proud of it I want to see things from a British perspective and not the revised version of events given to the international audience. Have the decsision makers never been overseas or to places like OZ The British sense of humour, the British sense of understatement all there for me each time I connected to the internet. Now its all gone like today I don't want to see a picture of some nobody in Tehran. I want the humour or what's on BBC TV to greet me. So thanks a lot to the person or people whomade such a BAB BAD BAD descision and like all other corperations and government bodies there will never be any going back or saying sorry we made a mistake because you know better and no one else matters. So after nearly 10 years of the BBC being my home page it is goodbye.
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There have been 345 posts - 346 if I get this one approved in time - in the less-than 48 hours since this 'BETA' test began - there are almost 345 (or 346) complaints.
I can only assume this is a BETA test, because it should not be a full production version - it is appalling. It appears to have not been thought through at all, but merely implemented as a 'good idea'. The reasons behind the change do not match the level of disruption and dissatisfaction caused by it.
What is the purpose of these blogs? No response from the BBC, nor from the blog author, Steve Herrmann. Come on, your customers are shouting their discontent. Say something! Explain or offer compromise. Where is the discussion?
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Put the button back please.
If you are dumb enough to select the UK version (with the glorious UK version button)and then become confused because the audio/video that you are seeing is in English then I don't think that the internet is for you.
I am English and I live abroad. I do not get confused by very much at all. Especially not the internet. Although, I did search around for the wonderful, wonderful button for about 5 minutes this morning because I was not interested in a really dull piece of African news that had blighted the home page. More Blighty, less blighted. (Sorry, best I could do with a couple of mins to spare).
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"The international version will have links to all the UK sections"
The uk and business link on the left hand side of the page through the AOL browser don't work at all !
Nothing has been addressed on this matter .
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ok - my #350 was a bit late - I've now read the responses from Steve Herrmann, but I'm afraid that is all it is - a response, but not an explanation.
There must be another way - this way is a blanket approach, putting everyone in the same basket. The BBC News website was the best website, by far, and I don't fancy the prospect of having to switch to Sky News, but at least I get UK news from a UK perspective there.
It is the British Broadcasting Corporation, isn't it, or am I looking at a different BBC?
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While fully aware of the rights issues in particular for TV, this change is certainly an error as far as I'm concerned. Living abroad, I was previously able to get UK news, Cornwall news, BBC Cornwall and national radio from the home page. As a teacher I have told hundreds of students that the BBC site was the perfect way to get easy access to information and news about Britain. Just because we're abroad doesn't mean we want international news to be given priority. If we want news about France we can use a French site. As you say, the content is still there somwhere, but it just requires a few extra clicks. Hardly progress, when before it was possible to personalise the site. The BBC website should provide an opportunity to spread the face of Britain around the world. At the moment you appear to be taking coals to Newcastle, instead of taking Newcastle United into Europe, if you see what I mean...
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I am located in the UK, but my employer uses a US web proxy, which means that I no longer get the UK version of the BBC pages.
It used to be possible to choose which version I used, even when accessing the site from abroad, but this choice seems to have been taken away. Was this intentional ? It is definitely not an improvement.
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Badly thought out, and the response is typical of the BBC attitude of they are right, and you are all wrong.
Did anyone actually consider server/user location with this move?
Would be interesting to see what the answer is to that.
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Thank you BBC or AOL tech for listening to me . The BBC news site is now fully functional on the AOL Browser .
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347. At 11:08am on 12 Jun 2009, Steve Herrmann (BBC) wrote:
"Thanks for all your comments. I hope you have spotted that I posted replies yesterday to the main points you've raised - they are under my original post above. In the meantime, we've had some problems with video and the ticker - we're sorry about that - they weren't related to the changes, and they should now be fixed."
Steve, sorry but your comment is the most arrogant thing I've read in years, how many comments do the BBC need to receive before they'll admit that they got this horribly wrong - do questions have to be asked in Parliament?... As I said, this is just total arrogance now, an unwillingness to admit that someone messed up...
Revert the changes and then go off and think the problems through, the simple/easy solution has been shown (spectacularly) incorrect.
I can only guess that the BBC is actually trying to drive people away from the BBC's web presence!
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Some specific instances of where the UK and International versions made a significant difference was on Euro-election night. On the UK version, there was an up-to-date summary of UK results on the front page, on the International version it was just European level results. Similarly, the expenses scandal tended to lead on the UK version and was relegated in the International version. These have a big editorial impact on what and how you read the news, even if you are also reading other UK papers on-line too.
Though if you're really going international, it would be very welcome to have all the Champions League football results in the sports section, and not just those involving UK teams.
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Have you ever thought of those people who work in UK in multinational companies. Most of often their proxy servers are located in countries outside UK e.g USA , Germany etc. And if you are using the location of IP address as the logic to determine where user is coming from then these users are always treated as International and shown the WORLD default page instead of the preferred UK front page and not able to use things like iPlayer as you mentioned.
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I'm curious if there is a number of complaints which you consider when implementing decisions without consultation? I understand that people will only post if they are unhappy, but do you reconsider after 100 replies? 200? 300?...
The point about helping functionality is obviously disproved if we the users are finding our functionality diminished. Too often the BBC decides what it wants to describe as "interaction", "participation" and "democracy" and it's a voxpop or voting on Britain's Greatest Mushroom or somesuch. People are trying to interact here, but the response seems to be
"We listened. We told you the same thing again. After that, we'll ignore you."
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I am a British expat living in Canada & I use the BBC News site SPECIFICALLY to get UK news with a UK perspective.
I highly valued the ability to see exactly the same content as UK residents even if there were some issues with unavailable videos (don't get me started on that!)
Since the dawn of the World Wide Web, it has been an invaluable tool for experiencing the perspectives of other countries and in my case a very welcome link to my home country.
This automatic, non-optional, adjustment of content based on a users location is, in my opinion, seriously damaging the value of the WORLD WIDE Web.
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Although you have repeated and asserted many times
"And, to repeat what I said in my original post, all the same content will be available as now so you'll still be able to get both UK and international news wherever you are."
but you are forgetting the fact that I've to make 2 extra clicks to reach to same default news page which I could do previously just by starting my browser or clicking Home page button in my browser
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I live in Germany full-time now, but previously travelled back and forth between the UK and Germany. I had two years of being a UK licence fee payer and had to put up with zero access to services I had paid for, during my visits to Germany.
If I came out for longer than a week, I missed TV programmes I watched regularly because they had gone from iPlayer. This may seem like a minor moan, but it was extremely annoying at the time!
I really resent being told what I can and cannot access, based on my IP address. I've never used the International version previously and had my laptop set up to the UK version of the site so that I could automatically log in to it.
You are taking away our choice without our prior knowledge and without our consent. That's pretty dictatorial, BBC.
I loathe the advertising on the international site, I truly detest watching the same darned thirty second advert before every single news item (of the ones I can actually access...cheers for that).
The BBC is no longer my news source of choice, as of now. Not that I suspect you'll give a rat's hindquarters!
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"We really do NEED to make these changes to allow the site to work better, so we will try our best to work through and resolve the issues you are raising".
You don't NEED to make these changes as we, your customers have been perfectly happy with what we had as is it abundantly clear from all our comments above. My home page, previously with all the BBC Links I needed on one page has disappeared and I cannot bring it back to the level I previously had. It strikes me that this is change for changes sake.
Your site is NOT working better - it is working worse. 357 mostly negative complaints with many who would not like the change and could not be bothered to write.
I used (note past tense) the BBC Homepage as MY Home Page as it was before "My BBC". All I wanted to use on the site was there for me. Now I cannot see my local home news, my local home (Cornwall)weather, My local (Cornish)sport - My Football Team News (Plymouth Argyle), English Rugby, Radio stations listings I want to listen to (Radio 4, 5Live Radio Cornwall) etc etc etc.
This is not an improvement, and it doesn't need to be made. What you do NEED to do is to put the Home Page Option back where it was. If this was a public meeting you'd be hounded out the hall.
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I agree with so many posts on here, including the latest one I've read (williamsdyyz).
When abroad I'm primarily interested in going to the BBC news page to view the news from a UK perspective, not from a world perspective. This is a major use case that a large number of people use the BBC news page that is being ignored because it's too tricky to maintain.
Please reconsider. This isn't just a would-like, it's a must have.
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Living in Belgium I had the choice of selecting either the international edition or the UK edition, my browser was programmed to select the UK edition.
Now I have the 'take-it or leave-it' choice.
I wonder what's next!
Secgen
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#347. Steve Herrmann (BBC) wrote:
'Thanks for all your comments. I hope you have spotted that I posted replies yesterday to the main points you've raised - they are under my original post above.'
Yes, I spotted your update but it is not really a reply and neither does it offer any solutions - only a further attempt to justify this badly thought out unilateral decision.
In that update you say :-
'And, to repeat what I said in my original post, all the same content will be available as now so you'll still be able to get both UK and international news wherever you are.'
This is just not true. There are many parts of the BBC web site (some pointed out by me and some by others) where there are no apparent links.
I can understand that the license fee funded BBC cannot spend money for the benefit of those that don't contribute but there is no need to do so. The previous method functioned perfectly well. Besides which, it is affecting many who do pay to support the BBC.
The reason for doing it (so people did not get confused by links to content restricted material that did not work) seems a little contrived. People are not that daft or easily confused.
I have never seen a BLOG where the comments are so universally on one side and yet the BBC still seeks to justify its decision.
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As a London worker who accesses the site via a Dutch IP address, I very much regret the changes and, judging from the comments above, am in a large majority. I have a feeling that (being an IT Manager myself) no user feedback was obtained before the changes were proposed and implemented. I get the impression that a direction was designed and pushed through without a great deal of thought from the user's point of view and only examined from a technical point of view. A very poor way to implement a system, in my opinion, and one that does no credit to the BBC name.
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#368: "I have never seen a BLOG where the comments are so universally on one side and yet the BBC still seeks to justify its decision."
Neither have I. I have on my desk at work two machines, one UK-based and one US-based. I work for a US company. Even now changing my bookmark to the UK page, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/default.stm, it's different to the UK-based front page.
There has been no explanation of why the change is necessary other than "it makes it easy for us". It's bound to be easy to provide something which your users don't want. But you (or your technical bods) are employed to provide something which your users do want.
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As a UK resident I liked the ability to see the international perspective too, and yes I do agree that the 'official' response, borders on arrogance too, regrettably a common form of response on BBC blogs these days. Depriving ex-pats of the ability to select UK Local news is really bad.
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I'm another expat chiming in to complain about this change. Not that it's going to make the slightest bit of difference.
Why even bother allowing people to comment if all you're going to do is ignore the - 100% negative - criticism and steamroller the changes through anyway?
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How ridiculous - the BBC news website is used by ex-pats around the world to keep updated on affairs back home. Making the relevant content less accessible will simply drive such people to use other UK news sites - such as that provided by The Guardian. Not a good move BBC.
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Communication - that's something that a broadcaster should be able to do.
The trouble is that the BBC restricts communication. This move is just an example of the ongoing restrictions being imposed by OUR state broadcaster. We own it, after all. Another recent restriction involved the culling of message boards under the 'Points Of View' banner as well as restrictions on what can be discussed in their remaining boards.
Our broadcaster - paid for by our money. Yet the corporation does not listen to us. Their so-called experts know everything. We (the ones who provide the money) know nothing.
This amount of protest won't achieve anything. They've made their decision and we'll just have to put up with it.
It's all going very well, isn't it Steve?
Hmph!
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To Steve Herrmann (#347):
You simply haven't addressed the number 1 complaint of people on this thread, which is that it is now no longer possible to see a spread of both UK and international stories assessed for their newsworthiness to a UK audience.
Why on earth not? How "technically challenging" could it really be to provide this?
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Like the 370 or so people before me, I think that this is quite appalling, and is a genuine inconvenience for the great many ex-pats like me, who have been enjoying the UK homepage happily for as long we have been using the internet. How many complaints do you have to receive before you consider acting on them? Perhaps you could sack that expensive Mr. Ross and put a tiny fraction of the savings to employing a few more technicians to run your website.
My wish-list in brief:
- give us back our UK homepage.
- improve the quality of the Radio 4 stream (live and on-demand), which has become extremely patchy since the switch from the basic but reliable old Real Player version.
- offer a paid subscription, ad-free option for all those people abroad who want to enjoy the website and R4 (no TV content, beyond the current basic news items). We would be quite happy to give a little money back to Auntie for the invaluable service she currently gives us for free.
- and PM as a podcast.
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This is quite annoying to be honest. I come to the BBC News website to get a UK perspective on news, with a main focus on the UK. I liked the fact I could choose a UK and International version (mostly chose the former). Now I am forced to wade through links and menus to get to the same information, just because I haven't got a UK based IP.
It's a bit like BBC News 24 where the UK version has a lot more in depth news on the UK than the International version (as I have the opportunity to watch both).
This is becoming irritating and will make me look to other sites for news.
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#347 Steve Herrmann (BBC)
"we've had some problems with video and the ticker - we're sorry about that - they weren't related to the changes, and they should now be fixed" &
PS to my #329
The changes you refer to seem to have included fixing the standard blog template, so that it no longer causes an error in IE8. I am grateful that you apparently don't intend to extend this IP apartheid to the blogosphere, but still very concerned that, as others have stated, removal of choice does not mean improvement or even continuation of service.
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I'm adding a comment on behalf of my children aged 8 and 11. Although being half Italian and our having lived in Italy now for 6 of those years and our feeling 'at home' here, there's an innate interest for them in Newsround, news presented for children in an intelligent trustworthy and understandable way. They'd like the page back the way it was, that's all with quck access to their news, sport, weather etc.
Change IS good but not for the sake of it. BBC is the point of reference to which we go as a family and turn to thankfully we have a doubt about other news sources, so Editors be complimented that most of us who are actually intelligent enough to adjust homepages etc., but who still feel moved to comment because feel so strongly and that we appreciate the liberty to hopefully make changes ourselves through our voices on a public service such as this. Sadly there's no such freedom here any more.
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I'm in the UK but I always looked at the international edition of the site as this news is far more interesting than the usual UK biased version (there's lots going on in the world that UK citizens miss, no wonder we are an insular and xenophobic society). Please reverse this change for change sake and take us back to the site we know and love.
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Steve, your update on the 11th of June finished with...
"We really do need to make these changes to allow the site to work better, so we will try our best to work through and resolve the issues you are raising. Thanks again for the feedback, it is appreciated."
"...to allow the site to work better..." Is that the only consideration? Shouldn't the customer, the one viewing content, be more important? Clearly, people here don't agree with what you've done.
Your reason is just not acceptable.
Hmph again!
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Surely anyone overseas visiting the BBC News site must realistically expect to see UK content? It makes more sense for those who want international content to bookmark the international pages, as you suggest should instead be done for UK news. This is a ridiculous change, particularly for an ostensibly "British Broadcasting" company.
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"All the same content will be available". I come to the BBC for a UK version of events and now I have to skip through god knows how many little links and search through pages to get at what was easily available before. Yet another case of change for the sake of it. You've taken a world class website and have made it just that little bit worse. Congratulations, you must be very proud.
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Using the BBC server in the uK, but the server is based in Germany. Now, clicking on the UK page does not display local (to Derby) news, sports or weather.
Please change it back!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I access the BBC news page from my mobile. I prefer to use Opera Mini when doing this for 2 reasons:
1. It's far quicker and uses less bandwidth when browsing, due to its use of servers that compress the data
2. If I use the phone's inbuilt browser, BBC websites automatically redirect me to WAP versions of the pages (with far less content), which is very frustrating.
I'm in the UK and accessing the site for a UK viewpoint of the news. This doesn't mean I'm not interested in International news, or only want to hear about UK-based news. However, the Opera Mini servers are in Norway. The changes mean that I now have to view the version geared towards International readers.
I think this change hasn't been fully thought out yet. I hope that you can restore the previous version until you iron out the bugs that everyone above is experiencing.
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I don't believe it !!! My AOL browser problem has returned ......Can't get the business or uk link from the International News page ...... :-(
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#350 SHLA2UK
"What is the purpose of these blogs? No response from the BBC, nor from the blog author, Steve Herrmann. Come on, your customers are shouting their discontent. Say something! Explain or offer compromise. Where is the discussion?" &
#361 b0ethius
"I'm curious if there is a number of complaints which you consider when implementing decisions without consultation? I understand that people will only post if they are unhappy, but do you reconsider after 100 replies? 200? 300?..."
If past experience is anything to go by, do not expect any admission of a mistake or reversion to the old model any time soon. The previous version of these blog threads was implemented with a major flaw in handling characters outside the ASCII 128 set, including the special characters for the GBP and EUR characters. More than a year on, the technically minded can now include £££s in their posts but the EUR symbol remains a distant dream. Instead of fixing what was broken, they came up with the current New Look For BBC Blogs, which prompted much discussion of what more is wrong with it, but of action has there been none.
Plus ça change....
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
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#390. From your post it seems that these blogs are basically a way of allowing us, the users, to let off steam harmlessly, without the chance of any response or action from the Beeb. Isn't modern technology wonderful.
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Ah yes, so anyone accessing BBC News from within the UK using Opera Mini now also can't see the UK version. That is quite a lot of people Mr Herrmann.
But does any of this matter to you? Right now, it appears not.
As an IT professional myself, I suspect that what happened here was that some group of developers asked for permission to make this change because it would make their life easier and they bamboozled you with some overly-technical PowerPoint presentation and you agreed.
Well, I suggest you go back to these developers and tell them that what they have come up with is not good enough and that they need to think of something more intelligent.
In the meantime, please revert the changes...
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Love the Beeb. Hate this idea.
Please reconsider.
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This is my 2nd post to this blog so probably doesn't count as an additional complaint about the new, unimproved international homepage.
The comments have been overwhelmingly negative but I fear there will be no change.
The editor passes the buck to his colleague,"The only significant exception is the main feature of the homepage (which differs between the UK and the rest of the world). Anyone abroad investing a few moments customising their homepage can set up a 'UK-flavoured' international page for themselves - not to mention one aligned more with their personal tastes and interests. Do you want the latest tennis results? Technology news? Great - we can do that too."
It would be nice if they could just put the button back, too.
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why should internationals view the site anyway?
it should all be behind a login screen for licence payers only regardless of where they might be?
that would be the fair and just system?
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It used to be so simple from Down Under: Click the bookmark, and UK version popped up; read UK news and overseas headlines AND customised specific county and sport headlines. Oh, and the weather details for where we once lived. I really don't want a 'UK-flavoured' international page. An improvement? Yeah, right...
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So it's just gone 14:00hrs (BST) on day two of these changes, the blog is knocking on 400 comments - the vast majority of which, from both within and outside the UK, are complaints - yet the BBC still hasn't either reverted the changes or come up with a better explanation of why "We [the BBC] really do need to make these changes to allow the site to work better".
When will the BBC admit that they messed up, there is no shame in admitting a wrong doing, in fact much faith would be resorted in doing so I suspect...
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Day three and nearly 400 comments, over 90% of them negative. The latest stupidity I've noticed. I can no longer have Radio 4 on the international Home Page, showing me what's on. Instead, whether I like it or not I have the World Service. You know, Steve, it's not a good idea to give your audience choice and then take it away because the BBC knows better than its audience. But I still have London for my Home Page weather. It's nice to know it's sunny there even if I can't have anything else customised to the UK. I do hope you're listening to this global howl of protest at what has been decided on our behalf.
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#395
"why should internationals view the site anyway?"
Why shouldn't they, the BBC is both a national and international broadcaster - in it's international roll (the BBC World Service) it's the official voice of the UK. Also many of the 'internationals' (as you call them) who are having problems are not even outside the UK and are paying the licence fee, it's just that their ISP or work-place IP numbers are! Or were you just talking about streaming-media, video and radio streaming, if so many have said that they are quite intelligent enough to realise why they can't access such content outside the UK.
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395. bookhimdano wrote:
'why should internationals view the site anyway?'
I am not sure I entirely agree with you (the BBC also needs to present a news face to the world) - but you have a point.
However, as you will have seen from the comments above, there are many that are from UK license payers / residents who just happen to be abroad for part of the time or who use non-UK web servers.
I would have no problem at all with a limited news service that could be extended to the full UK service behind a login that identified license payers.
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OK 2nd post on this.
Having just read quite a few of the comments, I now realise that not only do I not get the combination of news that I used to, not only do I have to use more keystrokes to get to things such as UK politics, but I no longer get the rolling news headlines because I've had the misfortunate to be forced to choose swap the old "UK news with the big international stuff" homepage for the "Second class UK news" homepage
A really bad, ill-thought out and guaranteed to annoy decision. Are you really trying to drive people away from the BBC news website deliberately (which is pretty stupid) or accidentally (which is errr.. also pretty stupid).
Change for the better is good - I've no problem with that, and change for the better is guaranteed not to please 100% of the readership. But change with no obvious advantage to your customers is really crazy.
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Simple solution. I've changed my homepage to Sky News.
I'm currently outside the UK, but want to see UK News. I was able to previously set this, but apparently now the BBC have decided as I'm away I need to fiddle about with extra links.
Sky don't force this on me, so I'll go to them from now on.
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This change is a great way of hiding from overseas visitors exactly what content we're not allowed to see due to 'rights issues' - was the real motive here to cut down on complaints about unviewable video etc?
Instead of hiding the issue, I think the BBC should have to explain WHY each piece of content isn't available, in detail!
Just the other day I was looking at the BBC F1 site & noticed a video interview with Nelson Piquet about his steering wheel - Not available outside of the UK. WHY? Surely ESPN can't have North American rights to interviewing F1 drivers about steering wheels??
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Absolutely disappointing. I usually, as an International BBC reader, mostly read the international section. But I occasionally visit the UK section to read the UK News. Now this has being taken away. What makes you think that restricting the contents of the UK News or vice versa will make your readers happy? I know it is all done for the money - and this has already started with a near-constant ads on every video content with which I have no much problem - but you should have known that, thanks to the internet today, that News can be accessed free. For UK News, there are on-line versions of the Guardian and the Independent for which the News is updated just like in the BBC. I am really disappointed with this, and thinking of switching to another News organisation, and there are many of them.
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This is such a terrible idea. The original blog entry claimed this change would be doing us a favour. Forcing us to the International setup would remove the links to videos files that we couldn't watch. This was all too confusing for us. Well guess what - we all dealt with that just fine - just as we deal with it on other sites just as MSNBC, CNN, ABCNEWS e.t.c. They all have country base video on their sites - we understand that as user's and its not a big deal. We know how the BBC funding works!
This was a pointless change that did not need to happen - and has just infuritated many of your customers. Put the radio button back and let us decide which links we click on - just like your competitors out there.
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A very poor development. I work in Europe Monday to Friday and look at the BBC News website several times a day. I do not want to only get an International version when I am in Europe. I am a BBC licence payer and want to see the UK version of the site.
I appreciate sometimes I am prevented from seeing videos as I am overseas, but I used to get this in the UK at some companies as their servers were overseas and BBC assumed I was as well.
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I hope you will keep a low graphics version for those with a slow connection or traffic-limited service. People living in rural areas abroad are unlikely to have access to broadband or even a dial-up service (I used to use a mobile-phone type modem). Any advertising you carry will affect these people's access to your service.
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I have seen this comment 43...
Why not:
1) news.bbc.co.uk - gives the UK version.
2) news.bbc.com - gives the international version
Seems to be a great, simple idea.
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Yesterday I was sure that I would be making just the one comment, but I have to say that today I am heartened by the number of people who agree with me!But sadly, I believe that the BBC will go ahead as planned regardless of what we think because that is what they do. What a shame. It's their loss.
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I live outside the UK, but I still have a vote.
This kind of change is quite typical - cut out those living abroad.
For example we can not buy BBC1 or BBC2, we just get the chance to buy BBC World, or BBC Prime, which believe me, are not very good. When will the BBC actually learn that most other nationalities can get their home TV channels anywhere, but not Brits, unless you live in Ireland, Belgium or The Netherlands (not sure about other places)
Now they are making it harder for Brits who live in other countries to see the news we want to see on the BBC web site. We get to see adverts from whoever and we even get to see adverts before film content that we are not allowed to see.
The BBC has an obligation to inform voters, perhaps it should learn where those voters are.
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I have just read through all the comments.
Would someone responsible for the BBC News website or Steve Herrmann give an indication how many negative comments would prompt a reverse of this decision?
500 negative comments? 1,500?? 2,000???
I would say Negative to Positive running at 95% negative.
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So many complaints.........surely something wrong with your market research?
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It amazes me how every decision you take you get wrong. Please let us have the option again of UK or International version.
And whilst you're at it you still have not ever given an adequate reason why those of us who are Expats cant get iplayer programmes. I have access to BBC here in belgium so why cant i watch it online?
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this sucks, change it back. i'm a UK citizen living outside the UK and I want UK news from a UK perspective. i don't give a monkey's who the new president Uzbekistan is - give me back my UK news!
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The assumption about usage is not correct - I log in from overseas, but initially I always look at UK news (and of course, the monitor!). I was apparently in a minority by setting my location! I also use the BBC to see more international news than Canadian broadcasters see fit to provide. It's another click to get to the initial target - no problems.
As for filtering content to exclude so much for overseas users, that I do have problems with. I would gladly pay a license fee to get full BBC coverage.
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If the BBC do go for authentication of License Payers they they are putting their neck in another noose :-
a) If the DONT provide all content then they are discriminating against verified license payers.
b) If they DO provide all content then they could fall foul of regional based copyright agreements.
Go back to what we had before where people may not have been happy with some blocked content but, at least, they understood and accepted it.
This is a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
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#412: I don't believe there was any market research. This change was made purely for the advertising, and the "you don't understand video availability" was a cop-out excuse. If that was *really* the reason, it would be perfectly possible to put an extra box under the left-hand menu with a suitable message: "Your IP address is [x.x.x.x] which is allocated to [country]. This means that we can't serve some video content to you because it appears you are outside the UK"
Mr Herrmann, prove me wrong.
Incidentally, although I have a US address here, I've seen no advertising at all. Does AdBlock Plus have anything to do with this?
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You'll be pleased to know that Steve's 'Twitter' site (venting my disapporval of twitter won't help at the minute) says:
"Checking feedback on the changes to our editions switching. Many preferred it before. Seeing how we can address concerns"
That was about 6 hours ago. You'd think he could log on to say something like "we're trying to get a fix, we'll let you know Monday," but silence just adds to the anger of people.
http://twitter.com/Steve_Herrmann
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I'm joining the minority. Part of this is because I have created many web sites - my most well-known is [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator] the free career choice test - and I know that multiple sites mean problems when the content is dynamic. Also, the downside - starting at international rather than national - is not a big one given the ability to transfer with one click.
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Actually, you can watch all the video clips on MSNBC, CNN and so on if you are outside the US. My partner is American and from our home in Germany he has free access to all the clips online. Our IP address is German.
There are firms who for a large chunk of money will buy you a PO Box address in the UK and obtain a Sky box and card for you so that you can watch UK TV in Germany and other European countries if you are so minded. (No, we haven't chosen to go down that route).
I'm still furious at the BBC for having made such a high-handed decision, seemingly without any research having been conducted amongst site users or canvassing of general opinion.
As to those who comment that we expats should go back to the UK...well, why should I? My partner works for the US army and has done since retiring from the USAF in 1995, he's been out here in Germany since 1991 and is very settled here. So long as he has a job here, this is home. Where we choose to go after that depends on any number of factors - access to the BBC as I know and appreciate it is not really one of them!
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"Checking feedback on the changes to our editions switching. Many preferred it before. Seeing how we can address concerns"
"Many"!? No Steve. Almost all.
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The decision to prevent me from having a UK view of the news on the home page is probably one of the most stupid things you could actually have come up with. The old way of letting ME decide what view I wanted with a simple radio button seemed like the perfect option but obviously you people at the BBC think you know what I want better than I do...
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One more thought from me (just in case someone is listening!)
I'm an expat. Living abroad has given me a new appreciation for the quality of output from the BBC.
I would gladly pay the license fee if I could get access to ALL the BBC output - TV, Radio, Online. I doubt I'm the only one looking for a way to give the BBC money...
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Hi Steve
Like many of the commenters here, I travel a lot on business. I was in LA last week and was not surprised to get the International version of the site. However, not being able to get a UK-based news/sport offering on my return is extremely frustrating. For one, if I could toggle my settings back the UK, I could watch today's Andy Murray match at Queens. I can only get live text. I could watch News 24 live, instead of a one-minute World News update.
So to say the content offering is the same isn't quite true.
What do I have to do to have my PC show a UK news/sport website again?
J
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This would be a much better service without the flash video. I never play the videos, I don't want the videos. If I wanted video, I'd turn the TV on. I just want the news, in English, in an almost unbiased form. Unlike many people apparently, I can read and actually find its the best way to absorb information. I'm also allergic to young women's voices, so I can stand the BBC news broadcasts.
Pre-moderated = Heavily censored to fit your editorial bias, despite your protestations.
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I appreciate why the changes have been made but I'm sorry, I really don't think they take into account many of your international users! I live abroad for a large part of the year and can get my International news anywhere. Being able to log into my BBC Homepage UK version every day to see my local weather, Radio &TV listings and national or local news right there in front of me gave me a vital link to home. No I'm faced with another homogenous website (yes I have done all the customisation I can) that doesn't provide what I'm looking for.
Back to clicking through various links on various websites that I don't have time for.....
By the way, I would happily pay a subscription fee to get all BBC content including full i-player, advertisement free, outside the UK.
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Just another protesting voice in the wilderness. Yet another expat who still has home/family/license etc in the UK.
I ALWAYS had the homepage set to the UK edition (probably why you thought no-one was using the button - I only did once). I want to see what's going on at home. I can get "international" news from anywhwere.
My frontpage had Local News (Shropshire), blogs from Peston and Robinson etc on it, none of which are available on the international front page.
Change it back, please.
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the next thing you need to change about the website is the search function: it's awful! no means of searching by date, never get the same set of answers twice... really needs a revamp!
Love the site otherwise though!
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