'Addicted' to Warcraft?
Since our story on World of Warcraft "addiction" was broadcast, I've been contacted by a number of angry gamers - including a BBC colleague - who charge me with painting a tired, cliched picture of their pastime and say "addiction" isn't a word that can be applied to obsessive gamers. So here's how the story came about.
When we started planning our treatment of the Wrath of the Lich King expansion a few days ago, it was going to cover fairly obvious angles - a global gaming phenomenon, with 11 million players from a wide age range, sets out on a new quest, which could reap its owners even greater heaps of gold than they've already accumulated.
Then my colleague Chris Vallance from iPM forwarded me two e-mails his programme had received. They were both from teachers who were deeply worried about the impact that online games were having on some of their teenage students. Each said that they'd seen students become addicted - and that had led to some dropping out of their studies. And once those messages became a topic on the iPM blog, it was World of Warcraft that was being fingered as the main source of concern.
I began to research the topic of Warcraft "addiction" further - and soon messages were flooding in. But the one that convinced me that this was a real story - not just a "games are evil" scare - came from the Tavistock Centre in London.
Dr Richard Graham is a very experienced psychiatrist who has been treating troubled adolescents for many years - the very opposite of a tabloid bandwagon-jumper. But, in very measured terms, he explained that he had been seeing an increasing number of clients for whom addiction to online games - and that meant almost exclusively World of Warcraft - was a real problem.
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He described how the teenagers lived their lives almost exclusively in this virtual world, falling behind with their studies, damaging their health, and failing to engage with their peers in the real world. "One young man described vividly to me a sense that having achieved very high success in the game, when he switched off he felt downgraded." The real world, it seems, does not retain any appeal for some who feel they can achieve more in World of Warcraft.
The young people he meets are putting in quite extraordinary hours "in-game": "Some of my clients will discuss playing for 14 or 16 hours a day without breaks and for those the consequences are very severe." And he pointed out that these were only the people who made it to his consultations - some others never turn up because they don't want to lose time that could be spent online playing the game.
After meeting Dr Graham, I headed down to the store where hundreds were queuing for the midnight launch of "Wrath of the Lich King." There were plenty of people in their 20s and 30s - and even older - who insisted, with some justification, that this was a hobby like any other. A couple who had travelled down from Gateshead to be at the launch laughed at the idea that they were "addicted". If they chose to spend their evenings on a World of Warcraft raid - quite a social experience - rather than down the pub, how did that harm anyone? Good point.
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But there was also a clutch of teenagers, expecting to get the expansion and then stay up half the night playing it. They told me that it wouldn't affect their studies - and their parents were mostly cool about it. For the majority that's probably true, but according to one study 10-15% of players do end up getting addicted.
Dr Graham says part of the problem is that young people now face so many demands at school that games can be an escape: "They experience a heightened sense of reality that is more stimulating than the drudgery of homework." But he stresses that it's no use being a Luddite about online games. "We need to engage with young people to think about these worlds they inhabit as that might help us create more of a dialogue with them when they are running into difficulties."
Blizzard, the makers of World of Warcraft, say the game has been given a "rest" system, which rewards players for taking a break. Paul Sams of Blizzard says parents have also been empowered: "We've put in a robust parental control system so that parents can control how much time their kids play, and when they play and it's all managed."
Millions of people are going to derive hours, days, even months of fun from Wrath of the Lich King. But for a few it will become a dangerously addictive world where they spend far too much of their time. And I don't think it is irresponsible to report that story.
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~29~RS~)
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Thanks for the blog Rory. I "slipped" into the habit at one point last year and what saved me i guess was that i decided to pay per month and not six months at a time. Therefore at the end of my second month when reaching for my credit car i just felt - hold on - this is a waste of money - time - effort - STOP! And so i did.
People say it doesn't effect their studies and directly maybe it doesn't. But with hindsight all those hours i spent playing could have been taken up reading. But it's a fair point to note that it isn't any different to any other hobby. My sister for example would be spending the same amount of time watching T.V. and DVD's as i would have been spending on WoW. And if something WoW is more communal and interactive than just crashing in front of the T.V. every night.
The problem with WoW is that the whole game is engineered to be addictive and to get you in to a headlock. First of all you've got the point and the level system you have to work through - because we're all fallen sinners we are never content so you start the night saying right I'm gonna get to lvl. 52 tonight, then you get there and it's approaching mid-night and your thinking, well i might as well keep going for a bit to see what the lvl. 52 quests are like and hey presto before you know it your deep into lvl. 52 and you just know you've blown your chances of making it to the library by 9am the next morning! The other thing that makes it addictive and gets you in a headlock the the whole Guild thing. If your in a Guild with say a gang of player around lvl. 50 then you can't take a week or two away from the game because when you get back the rest of your Guild will be deep into the lvl. 60s. You just have to keep playing daily to keep up with everyone else. Vicious circle.
A year on and i have been "clean" for 12 months (haha, never thought i'd talk about it in this light). I probably still spend as much time in front of my Mac BUT i now do useful thing like develop websites for voluntary charities and organizations and most importantly writing my PhD!
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Don't get me wrong, the article was very good and to be fair this is more aimed at other such articles, is the point that anything that brings fun to the person, community, and fills some need the person has, can become dangerously addictive.
More time should be looked at the person who is addicted rather than at the source of addiction because unlike substance such as nicotine the addictions source is the person not the product.
I have seen people react the same way to football teams, cards, tv shows, games, video games, books, websites you name it there probably is someone out there or many who are heavily addicted to it.
The reason why games like WoW is targeted by such articles is a lot of people don't understand the appeal, WoW specifically being the most successful of its genre and getting many new players (which tend to get more addicted to their first game, than ones which will follow) , so is an easy scapegoat to blame rather than the person him/herself
But also arguably WoW and other online communities fill a void of friendship and community that can be lacking in many of the addicted lives, and for many even non addicted the community you meet in online games and the like can fill a niche, the fact I have met many a good friend including my current boss though online communities I can honestly say it can be a strong draw, even if the game is only temporary distraction.
I remember seeing the same thing about AD&D when I was younger, and before that I’m pretty sure there was some other fringe pastime that was vilified while ignoring equally addictive mainstream pastimes.
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I don't think I fit the profile of the usual World of Warcraft (WoW) player, but I thought my own experiences might be helpful - I have seen both the bad and good sides of WoW.
I am a married dad of two teenagers, with a full-time high pressure job as a lawyer. In early 2005, I had to have a serious operation which meant I had a month at home laid-up in recovering. I was so bored I asked my wife to get me a PC game so I would have something to do - she chose WoW (the original) much to her lasting regret! I was hooked by the end of the month. Before I go any further, I do not and never have watched TV in the evenings - that is another timesink in itself.
I think I have experienced four stages to the game, only one of which was really dangerous in my view. They are as follows:
1. Levelling the first character to level 60/70(the previous maximum levels). This was huge fun - I made loads of mistakes, but it was fun exploring the game world, dabbling with guilds etc. I faced no time pressure to do things and could play the game at my own pace.
2. Getting to maximum level and joining a "raiding guild". These are large groups of players who team up as raid groups of up to 40 (now reduced to 25) to tackle the tougher dungeons in WoW. This is the dangerous part of WoW so far as addiction is concerned. Flushed with success at reaching maximum level, I was flattered to be invited into a top guild, aiming at raiding on a regular basis. As a dad and husband with a full-time job, I fooled myself into thinking I could do this. The guild initially asked for four nights raiding per week (I negotiated a limit of two), but that was then increased. I neglected my family and was bad-tempered, rushing home from work to be on-line prompt for the raid and snapping at the children. I ended up at the same time slipping behind in the guild and really ticking my family off - and the pressure became too much, so I quit the guild. I did not want the game to impinge on my family life (it never affected work strangely - I never missed work or left work early for WoW - it was family time that I sacrificed rather than work time).
3. I considered deleting the game. What stopped me was hooking up again with a group of "casuals" I had met earlier in the game - dads/mums (yes I have encountered many women who play WoW) in exactly my position - we all faced the same pressures and had decided to opt out of the endgame raiding culture. We would still play at set times - Sunday mornings and maybe one night a week - but there was no "penalty etc" for not turning up "on-line" as there had been in the raiding guilds. We use Skype when we play and we have a laugh. This is the social side of WoW, which can be great fun.
4. As time went on, I levelled up more characters - basically, repeating stage 1 with different classes of characters. Again, there was no time pressure - I could play at my own pace. The difference this time was that all the other dads etc in my casual guild levelled up other characters at the same time, at the same leisurely pace, so we could do quests etc together if we wanted to.
So in summary, stages 1, 3 and 4 have been great fun. Yes, at times my wife does moan, but my son and daughter both now play in the same casual guild and we have a better life balance.
Beware though if you or your loved ones get sucked too far into endgame raiding (stage 2 in my own example). I found that many of the raiders in my guild were complete addicts, either long-term unemployed or students and even those who had given up their jobs and whose marriages had broken up due to the game. A huge number were kids - teenagers who were obviously neglecting their studies. They were "hardcore" - always on-line and always raiding. I found first that I could not compete with them due to lack of time, and then that I did not wish to. My wife gets most of the credit for knocking sense into me.
So if your wife/husband/partner gets hooked on the game, you must not pander to their addiction. Any evening they spend on WoW should be balanced by an evening spent with you/family doing other things. In other words, suggest that they "earn" their WoW time rather than have it as of right. And never allow your kids to have a PC in their bedroom is my advice - many of those kids who were playing all night were doing so in their bedrooms without their parents' knowledge.
I hope the above experience is of interest. In short I have had the game for nearly 3 and a half years. I play less often than I used to but with increased enjoyment when I do. I am really looking forward to exploring the expansion. People just need to enjoy the game, like all good things, in moderation.
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I played a variety of games throughout my teenage years and at university. During my final year I bought World of Warcraft on the day it came out.
The issue of games addiction is one I have real uncertainties about. I play computer games on and off, usually for a couple of hours two or three times a week. On occasion, having just bought a new game or rediscovering an old one, I have played for whole days, sometimes til four or five in the morning, sometimes for a week or so. Many people I know who play games casually show similar behavioural patterns.
Those who play these games are generally intelligent enough to make the obvious comparisions with TV or drinking in the pub - surely no less futile - yet the doubt I have about this argument is that, presuming you recognise both to be fairly futile, why not do something more productive? I certainly feel every so often that if I had made better use of the time I spent gaming I could have learned a new skill or maybe not had so many mornings half asleep at school.
World of Warcraft is unique in its popularity, reasonably so in its online social capacity, but not unique for it's addictiveness. The real challenge is that it is so colossal in size that the addictiveness - usually resolved by completing the game - is long term. As it is a subscription rather than flat fee game it is in the manufacturer's interest to draw out the experience for as long as possible.
There are countless arguments against treating moderate to heavy gaming as an addiction - the relief of drudgery, online friends, harmlessness etc. I just can't help but feel there is a bit more to life than this.
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Yet again the media paints a picture of sad individuals locked into their PC for 12-15 hours every day.
I have a full time job and when I get home I want to relax and chill out. I used to do this by watching TV programmes I didn't really take much interest in, or watching DVDs I'd already seen dozens of time.
How then is World of Warcraft different to watching TV for 2-3 hours (which is the most I can ever manage before going to bed!)?
Well for a start the social aspect. I have met a lot of friends on this game and a lot of colleagues from work play the game together.
Like anything, whether it be films, consoles, tv it is about restraint and responsibility. Set yourself a couple of hours to play and then that's it. Like anything there are always extreme cases, and people who take it far too seriously, but isn't that the same as TV?
Please don't tarnish the gaming community when the reporter probably hasn't even played it
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I think that this is a good article because it is true. But I would like to see more than just computer games being questioned in terms of their potentially detrimental impact upon human health/wellbeing. We need to question much more widely the impact that computers and the internet (so called "networking") are having upon our lives. Most of us probably spend more time talking to a computer (at work alone!) than to other human beings. I would like to see a similar article to this covering the potentially detrimental affects of over-using a "social-networking" site such as Facebook in particular though...
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i am a current world of warcraft subscriber and i just thought id make a comment as to offer the vue of a player
i have been playing W.o.W for just under 2 years now and i agree it can become addictive i am 22 atm and i have played this game for the majority of my time in the past year
but as of teenage kids playing i for one feel its better to have your children playing a computer game rather than going out and joining gangs
or maybe getting hooked on drugs i mean sure it can have bad effects due to lack of sleep but theres a hell of a lot less risks of your children dieng of a warcraft overdose
in a way its better that your children are playing a game where they are meeting people and bieng social on a game i mean it offers a lot in the way of people to talk to in all age ranges
but i dont want to sound pushy for the pro wow scene as a player i will tell the parents this if you feel uncomftable you can go into the account management part of the site and restrict the hours your child plays
i only offer this information as i dont want to say a game that offers a release from the stresses of everyday life if u still feel after limiting your childs play through the site then set them goals outside wow give them incentives to be playing i mean your probably the one paying for this in any case
so just make sure theyre doing things to earn theyre play because when it comes to the payment date your child will be nice to you just make sure that u dont feel as if u have to pay for them to play it is a priveledge not a right
any way il stop going on now thats just my opinion
thanks for reading
dave
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Addiction should be defined here.
If you are putting aside other activities for a game, no matter the cost i.e. Not going out with friends, spending time with the wife etc etc, then you have an addiction.
If however you are playing a game for 4 hours a night instead of watching TV, then I view this as not an addiction but a past time, hobby etc.
Arguabley TV is an addiction as millions of people sit in front of the telly every night watching the BBC. Is that harmful? I don't think so.
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As an emerging - some would say emergent - medium the impact of gaming is still being explored.
Unsurprisingly incumbent media and the pre-gaming generation question the impact gaming is having, while at the same time not question how long people watch TV, read books, go to football matches, sit in the pub, gamble, etc
Gaming needs to be put into contex of the wider social activity spectrum.
Then we can get a sense of its impact.
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This is nothing new - people have been obsessing over games for years http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2008/11/dayintech_1113 but also films, tv, musicals, etc. You only have to look at the conventions and fan communities online and offline. If anything World of Warcraft looks far more social and interactive than the above example (asteroids) so it is a vast improvement. If kids are spending this much time online then it needs to be regulated by their parents.
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Interesting article and I agree with many of the comments other people have posted but thought I would add my own slant. You see I run one of the "guilds" mentioned in these comments and have created and led high end raiding parties to instances in the past.
The Raid culture in wow was what caused me issues, not the guild system. It's important to make it clear that not all guilds are raiding guilds. My guild for example is a group of mature adult gamers from all over Europe who want to play with a group of mature players and ultimately make friends.
We would have regular events from instances to fun challenges, social meetings and more. In fact our guild has worked so well that I've made many friends outside of the game and have visited fellow "guildies" thoughout the UK, Holland, Germany and Belgium. The social side of WoW is fantastic both in and outside of Azeroth.
Sadly though the end-game activities at the time in WoW all required 40 players, these raids could take anything from 6 - 8 hours depending and although immenseley fun they do take their toll. As an IT freelancer working all over the world there was very little to do in the evenings, it was either sit in the hotel bar or find some other sort of entertainment. So raiding was a great option and cheap to boot.
The issues arose however when I would return to the UK and neglect my partner who suffered immense frustration because I'd still want to play at the weekend.
Eventually like anything though I tired of the politics involved in raiding and to be honest like any game after a while you can lose interest. This is what has happened to WoW over the last 12 -18 months and what ultimately saved my relationship.
Blizzard to their credit is trying to change some of the end game to allow the "casual" gamer to also be able to obtain some of the rewards of the "hard core" raider but there is still some work to be done here at present. But, by reducing the numbers required for instances it allows the casual players who can't commit to spending all evening in a 40 man raid to at least see some of the end game content with their friends which, is really all that most casual gamers want.
I still play and I still run the guild and my partner now understands that whereas some people enjoy television, dvd's or even console gaming, I enjoy on line games. It's just a case of finding the right balance, which I think is harder for younger players than older. The game is growing and Blizzards quest for mmporg domination means they must appeal to players of all sorts in order to grow their subscription base that bit further and with competitors constantly emerging (WAR especially) the future should be really interesting.
Now excuse me while I go level my deathknight :)
Jak'arth Zha Xundus
Guild Leader COTM
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Why does the BBC always like taking a swipe at Warcraft? The BBC is showing its disdain and lack of respect for young people. The only way a young person can become addicted to something such as Warcraft is by parental ignorance. The game supplies all the tools to restrict usage that a parent could wish for. You will probably find parents who are involved in gaming to any degree have children who have a lot more self discipline when it comes to gaming, Comment#3 is a shining example that when a parent educates themselves using interactive entertainment they can educate their children better. Again lets stop blaming anyone else other than the parents.
The Buck Stops with them. PERIOD.
I'm a 24 year old Dad and played Warcraft for 2 years when it was released. I was able to realise the pointless waste of energy the game in itself is. My gaming is now limited to my Xbox which I use as a tool to keep myself close with my younger brothers. I feel that thanks to the way society is moving forward with this particular medium it is my responsibility to continue educating myself with where gaming is and where its going as it is inevitable that my son will discover it eventually.
Oh and on a side note its funny how the BBC can't say enough good things about EVE: Online in contrast. Is this because as this page: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7256069.stm states that it is used by people involved in economics which is particularly centred around London. As we all know the BBC is also situated there and I imagine most of the staff are too. They wouldn't take potshots at those who are referred to as "educated" just the rest of the "uneducated" masses that live elsewhere in our nation.
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This is simply an issue of bad parenting.
World of Warcraft is very immersive and incredibly fun to play, which can lead to people wanting to spend a lot of time in it. The emphasis here is on "want" not "need", the difference between a passtime and an addiction. It does not punish people for not playing it, it does not compel people to play it, in fact it does give rewards, as already stated, for taking a break then returning (by logging off, you gain points later, twice as fast).
Certainly, there are some people who may form an addiction around it, but they are no more likely to have such a problem around World of Warcraft than they are any other passtime, be it football, poker, drinking, other video games, whatever. For adults, we expect them to be able to handle themselves, and for children, we expect their parents to handle them.
World of Warcraft includes several features of parental control. It allows a maximum amount of time per day of play. It also constrains play to particular hours, so for instance a child could not play after 10pm.
If these features are not used, it's the parents who are to blame. If they do not know what their children are doing, and their kids' studies and social lives are suffering because they have a hobby that is taking over their life unchecked, it's the parents' negligence that is causing it. They should be able to handle what their children are doing to ensure it doesn't get out of hand. The fact the company provides tools to automate this makes it even easier.
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Through college, I heavily played an MMORPG myself, and I know that in theory, if I had not played so much, I could have had better A-level results.
In practice, however, is an entirely different story. Dr Graham talks about the demands of schoolwork, however the culture within schools has always been a far greater issue.
Bullying and peer pressure is rife, and as another news story today shows, what most kids aspire to is celebrity, an impossible goal. In many areas, there is no real escape from the atmosphere of school, as the sole young people around are either from your school, or have so many ties to others from your school that any problems still carry on through.
MMORPGs offer an escape, a means (along with other internet social activities) to make new friends, away from the problems of the schoolyard. They offer a sense of achievement, and can open up new possibilities to people (consider what you learn in organising and running a guild, for example).
I would argue that, for many teenagers, the problems of MMORPG addiction have as much to do with poor conditions in "the real world" as they do with the games themselves.
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The comments from WoW players attacking this article on here are astonishing!
Would those contributors moaning that WoW is no less productive than going to the pub be equally as offended by an article about alcoholism?
I doubt it, and I can only conclude that those taking offence are either in denial or have an enormous chip on their shoulder.
Why should this kind of obssessive behaviour be immune from journalistic examination?
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I'm not sure if addiction is the right term but spending long hours playing computer games is not new.
I remember spending long nights and weekends playing "Elite" in the late 80's. Again, the idea was to gain status and money and the only way to do that, is to put the time in.
I do remember that leaving my computer was difficult at times because I wanted to achieve a particular goal before ending the session. I just had to put my trust in the "Save" function.
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I've played WoW since the live date, im in my mid 40's and play with a group of friends from real life (yes I do have one).
I probably do exhibit some addictive tendencies towards WoW, in that most evenings I get bored watching TV by 9 and find myself itching to play. This is probably more of a statement on the quality of TV these days than anything.
The parental controls thing is good as far as it goes, but i do wonder how many parents know about it and have the confidence to set it up. Both my sons play and when they were still at school I set these controls up accordingly. These days if they don't do their chores I disconnect the internet :) However as they have developed socially in real life with girlfriends and such like, WoW is becoming a very poor second best.
WoW is definately designed to make you keep playing, take a look at the Achievements system recently introduced, how many players have been trying to get those 100 recipes, or 50 mounts, 25 pets anyone? and so it goes on.
Anyhow, off to work out the talent spec for my Death Knight :)
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Many people are scared of these games because they themselves do not play them so cannot relate to why other people would want to spend time doing it. But we've been here before. Remember when everyone was talking about the "idiot box" or "that damn racket" (aka music the older generation didn't like/understand)?
It's easy to be on one side of the extreme with computer games - either that they're just fun, or that they're evil. In reality it's in the middle. These games can be enormous fun, and they can become an addiction. It's like anything else - drinking, watching TV, listening to certain types of music, etc. In modest amounts there's nothing wrong with it, but an excess is a bad idea.
The answer is simple. For adults, put aside specific amounts of time to play and don't go over it. For people with children, don't allow the computer or games console to be a right - make it a privilege. If your kids do their homework, eat properly, get a good night's sleep, etc then there shouldn't be a problem.
I agree with earlier comments that children get addicted through bad/indifferent parenting. Mums and dads have to step up to the plate rather than avoid becoming unpopular with their kids.
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First up, I'm not a WoW player. I have, however, played a number of similar online games (Everquest, EQ2, EVE Online, etc.) over the course of the last 5 years, and whole-heartedly agree that there is a point at which computer gaming of this sort develops into an "addiction", having experienced it myself. I use this term because it behaved in a very similar way to a drug addiction; I was routinely and regularly spending time on the game, when I knew that I had more important (university/work) things to be doing, but this didn't matter to me. It nearly cost me my degree, but I stopped myself just in time - for reference, it was far harder than quitting smoking.
Part of the problem that this caused for me was that very few people are prepared to accept or understand this, from doctors to lecturers to colleagues, despite people from each of these groups being understanding towards my peers who were suffering from substance addictions. This creates a kind of stigma around speaking out about the problem of gaming addictions that is harmful to people undergoing them.
That said, I think some people are too quick to categorise individuals as gaming addicts; I would not describe my current playing habits of around 8-9 hours a week to be evidence of such an addiction, and yet some would given that I play on a daily basis.
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Rory, you've made one simple mistake here. If the concern is about young people spending a ridiculous amount of time playing the game, and given that any parent can set the controls of the game to limit and regulate the time spent on it, then this should be an article about poor parenting, not an article about a dangerous computer game. Please stop demonising a genre of entertainment that gives so much harmless pleasure to so many, and address the real causes of any problems that might occur. Your article bordered on sensationalism.
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Computer games are the new rock'n'roll.
By which I mean it's something that the chattering classes are up in arms about because it's a new phenomenom that they don't understand. Of course we all know that what we don't understand must be addictive, detrimental to health and possibly incite people to either sex or murder.
On the other hand, by all accounts, WoW can be stunningly addicitve, though it's never appealed to me.
What we need is to be very, very careful about with this entire situation is tarring all games and all game players with the same brush. Most games do not inspire this level of devotion, and most people realise that gaming is a hobby, a really great hobby, even a lifestyle, but not a replacement for real life.
As with most things in life, there are and will be people that can't handle it and go too far - cf. drugs, sex, alcohol, skydiving, knitting - but these things vary in their consequences. We have to be very sure of what sort of a society we create when we choose to regulate any of these things for the sake of the very few.
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When you talk about addictions i know i could be doing a lot worse things in life than playing warcraft in the evenings. At least when i'm raiding i have to use my brain and think about what i'm doing, rather than just mindlessly watching the TV.
There are a lot of studies about warcraft and other mmorpg's as well that list good things that have come from the game. Like learning abilities such as leadership, teamwork and man management which are very important in the real world.
I do know any addiction is a bad thing but at the same time there are a lot worse things in the world that myself or others could be addicted to. I have met many good people through warcraft and have visited some as far away as australia where they looked after me as well as a family member might.
And its more the people and the socialising i get addicted to rather than the gaming side. But at the same time i do get out regularly to go to sports events and nights out. Its all about balance, and taking everything in moderation.
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At #15 as the article primarily focuses on young peoples addiction then yes we would be offended at a similar article about alcohol.
This article is removing parental responsibility from the factors of game addiction and focusing on the game.
If a similar article did the same thing blaming TV Adverts for alcohol you would probably get a similar response.
Most people again would defend drinking for everyone, even for younger people so long as the parents educated their kids and brought them up to have self discipline with drink.
Again the parents are the only people to blame for their kids behaviour.
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From Jazz to Horror Comics through Rock and Roll to Dungeons and Dragons then Computer Games and now Online Gaming the press has found an ideal target for writing stories like this one. They appeal to a wide readership either horrified by the harm to kid or kids who are offended by the inaccuracies and broad brush descriptions.
Yes I'm one of the people who's enjoyed some (not all) of these and for 20 years found the claims made about them to have little in common with my experience of any of the activities.
Over the years professionals in various fields and concerned pressure groups (some eventually shown to have hidden agendas to push, political campaigns to start rolling or books to promote) have provided studies of the damage figures are quoted levels of addiction, cost or suicide. I wouldn't mind so much but usually the figures start to fall apart when a back of the envelope calculation is carried out.
Take this story as an example: 11 million registered players for World of Warcraft. 10-15% become addicted. That equates to 1.1-1.65million addicts worldwide. I'll leave it to others to draw their own conclusions from those figures but I don't see a horde of Warcraft destroyed souls wandering the streets begging for the £8.99 a month subscription any more than I see a large number of older people whose lives have been ruined by their rock and roll habit from their youth.
Maybe an interesting article would consider the widespread use by journalists of the word addiction. Then place this addiction in the context of a spectrum of addictions from illegal drug use through alcohol and tobacco on to football and people who regularly buy books, magazines and go to their local library. Finally you could look at how journalists are addicts to writing articles about addictions.
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I'm not surprised that this argument has resurfaced again, but the story makes me as weary as the 'are A-levels too easy?' debate that happens every year. I can't blame a reporter for reporting, but equally you can't blame the majority of us (who manage to play WoW and enjoy a balanced life) for getting cheesed when the addictive types give us a bad name.
WoW is fairly accessible, so lots of people will play it and enjoy it. Therefore, numerically, you're bound to find more people for whom playing has become disproportionately important.
I bought WoW a couple of years ago and have bought a copy of the new expansion. However, with this, as with all my hobbies, I will continue to ask myself one simple quesion: Is this activity serving me (i.e. providing a few hours of fun/escapism/social interaction) or am I serving it? As an adult, no one can absolve me of the responsibility to monitor my own behaviour. If I can't maintain a balance then it is not the fault of the people who make the game. Where youngsters are involved then parents need to ask this question on their behalf until they kids are old enough to judge when they are becoming over-absorbed.
Isn't the real problem that too many of us want someone else to take responsibility when we don't/can't control ourselves?
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I like the way all the WoWers are on here claiming they don't have a problem and the game is good and a social experience. Like smoking or drinking, i suppose. Or even talking to people "IRL".
I know someone who plays this for several hours a night every week. He's mentioned that he can't do anything on a couple weekdays in the evenings as he is "raiding". He gets home from work and sits there until midnight (or later) without a break. He playes weekends too. His hours will probably go up considerably for the next couple of weeks until he's got all the new shinies. I imagine this is familiar to lots of people. I find it mind-boggling that someone would do this, but he's a big boy and it's ultimately his choice.
I'm pretty sure that, regardless of the opinions of hardcore WoWers, this sort of behaviour could be classified as a sort of addiction. And before you start on me, I don't own a tv and I play games myself.
Just don't stab me with your pointy hat of solitude +3.
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I have absolutely nothing against gamers; I'm not a gamer myself.
I feel (and I wonder if others agree) that there's a fundamental, if intangible, difference between, for example, playing football and gaming; practicing the piano and gaming; reading and gaming; even going to the pub and gaming.
When you're gaming, to a fairly large extent, the game happens to YOU (though I appreciate the problem-solving involved.) If you're practicing the piano, YOU happen to the piano. If you're playing football, YOU run after the ball. I suppose I'm saying playing football is active, gaming is passive. I think this is significant when considering the question of gaming addiction.
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I'd like to see a more balanced study on the affects of online gaming. Given that we have a youth crime problem, youth alcoholism problem and youth drug problem I find it hard to believe that games don't balance out their influence on the world. Also, there are many different online games, more people don't play warcraft than play warcraft (in this genre) so limiting opinion and study to warcraft is going to give a very small subset of the real picture.
You also omitted the fact that Blizzard added alarms, warnings & frequent messages about excessive online play.
5 years ago it was 'chat rooms are addictive and dangerous'. 12-16 year olds are a vulnerable demographic that seek escapism, maybe we should be studying whats so wrong with the real world that these kids desperately seek to leave it regularly.
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I decided to delete WoW some months back when I realised I was prioritising it over outside social commitments. I haven't looked back since.
I'm a bit embarrassed about the time I spent in the game now, which was fun, agreed, but ultimately nothing more than a huge waste of time.
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All I know is that it has almost wrecked my son's A level chances. My son was addicted to wow. By the time I discovered what he was doing it was almost too late. It is an extremely addictive game and unfortunately some people are far more easily addicted than others. As with addiction to other vices it can depend on your personality and even on your genetic make-up.
Personally I think these games are a 'thief of time' and will have a considerable detremental effect on future society unless the problem is flushed out and discussed in the open. Too many people (often with low self esteem) are finding comfort from living in a virtual world. With these games becoming more and more sophisticated the situation will probably only get worse.
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The idea of addiction to Warcraft is nothing new and has been widely reported. It seems most articles about the game are about a problem that only affects a small number of players written by people who have probably never even played it.
I wrote my honours dissertation about MMORPGs and there are certainly addictive features - the sense of achievement, the social networks formed and the short and long term goals in the game and I don't deny that some people will succum to some form of addiction but the way these articles report about the game they make it sound like everyone that plays it is a teenage junkie. This is a misrepresentation as players of all ages can experience this dependency on the game and its certainly not as serious an addiction as something like drugs or alcohol.
It seems the emerging media is always villianised until it is accepted into the wider mainstream. Similar witchhunts have occured for most forms of the media. Films and television have been the blame for corrupting our society in the past, even books were feared in the past. Now these people are looking at World of Warcraft and other computer games and blaming all of societies problems on them. Its seems WoW is blamed more than other games for these problems as well which I find odd as I think playing a social game which encourages you to think and develop such as Warcraft is far more healthy than sitting staring at the TV.
It would be refreshing to see a writer take a different slant on the game. Like the help WoW has provided for some disabled players who are able to experience free movement in the game, or the fact that it has been used by cancer patients during chemotherapy as its immersive nature helps patients distract themselves from the side-effects better than things like tv and music.
The way all players of Warcraft are tarred with the same brush bothers me. If the writers actually bothered to play the game for a while and talk to some of the players they would see how diverse the player base is. I'm a player and I certainly don't have the time to play for 12 hours in a row and I certainly won't be skipping out on a night out with friends in order to 'get my fix'.
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As a WoW player, I know it's definitely possible for some people to become addicted to the game. Addicted is the right word, despite what some people before me have said, because they re-arrange their whole life around playing the game. For most people, however, this isn't the case - they may have the occasional very long session or regular 2-3 hour sessions but for the most part, that's just as healthy as sitting in front of the television or doing the crosswords.
The thing that springs to my mind, however, is that the same people that are addicted to Warcraft would be addicted to something else if they had to give the game up. At a base price of 9 pounds a month (less if you pay in longer installments) I doubt a WoW addiction is as bad as other things. It's certainly cheaper than gambling, less physically harmful than cocaine or nicotine and less anti-social than alcoholism.
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I had to add my comments as I feel that the article does touch on some important aspects of online gaming.
There is a conflict of responsibilities involved with the gaming companies. As has been pointed out in earlier comments, Blizzard, in this case, has a vested interest in getting gamers addicted to WoW but, to be honest, constant playing doesn't make any difference to them because you are still paying the same subscription whether you play 12 hours a day, 7 days a week as you are if you play 4 hours spread over 3 days.
Parents are much maligned in this case but it is not necessarily their fault either - I am not a parent. I have been playing WoW for years and I don't know how to use the parental controls so how are those parents who have never played the game in their lives supposed to know? It is not xactly marketed as the main selling point...
I don't believe that playing WoW instead of sitting gawping at the TV is harmful. The social aspect of MMOs is, for me anyway, the best part. I hate soloing my characters and if no members of my guild are online, I will log off and do something else.
If a player has more than one account and spends the majority of their waking hours in front of the computer screen then I believe they have a problem. The problem comes when players in the game world are praised to the hilt about their achievements, when in the real world their self esteem might not be the best. They then feel more valued in the game world than the real world and therefore spend more time there.
My final thought is that MMOs are a good way of meeting (online) friends and experienceing teamwork, thinking tactically, problem solving, developing an idea of economics. However, players should also be encouraged to take up physical activity and limit their gameplay (though as soon as the nanny state suddenly interjects with a piece of legislation restricting avalability I am leaving the country)
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It's all about whether you're sensible and in the right mind to know whether you're excessing or not.
I recently started WoW myself just before Halloween. Before I started, I did feel a bit wary of the whole thing - the horror stories, addiction clubs, a video I saw on YouTube showing the life of an Australian boy who spent countess hours raiding whilst his mother was sobbing in the next room about how she'd 'lost her son' etc etc...
But for goddness sake's it's just a game when you get down to it and see the 'world of Azeroth' yourself, and a fun one at that if you play it in moderation.
I started myself because having finished High School, College, a 2 year University course for my HND and securing a steady job in the Computing industry, I now have the time to pick up little hobbies like this to pass the time in the evenings.
Personally, I don't play for more than a few hours a night, I break up my sessions and log straight off for bed at 11 so I'm not so cranky at work the next day!
I think there's been a huge amount of hype over the dangers of this game but in the end it's the player behind the game that makes it this way - it's as addictive as you make it.
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#30 "All I know is that it has almost wrecked my son's A level chances."
No, your son has almost wrecked his A-level chances by playing the game too much.
I made a mess of my first a year at university largely through playing too much online "Quake". But it was my fault for choosing the easy, pleasurable passtime rather than working. Not the game's fault for existing.
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Well either Dr Richard Graham has a very poor understanding of the principles of cause and effect, or more likely the BBC misrepresented his opinions.
You should take a look at some Year 11 kids - it happens in other years too, but it is more noticable in their final year. You can spot the kids that know they're not getting anything out of their exams and don't see the point in being there anymore. They spend their time griefing their teachers and other students because...well, what else is there to do?
If they manage to find something (whether it be WoW or football) that makes them feel like they actually achieved something do you think they'll put more energy into the thing that makes them feel good or the thing that makes them feel like a failure? So why do you expect kids that believe themselves to be failures at school to walk away from their successes in WoW/whatever and spend more time on being a "failure"? Would you?
It's not a case of WoW pulling kids away from their studies, it's a case of schools pushing kids to WoW. If you want to stop the effect then the kids need to feel like they achieve great things at school. Hardly simple, but then again neither is creating something as successful as WoW.
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I think the issue is systematic with everything else in today's society of too much TV, too much lethargy and people to scared to go out into the world due to a perceived idea that they will get hurt. Kids/ teenagers just don't go out and have fun in the great outdoors or kick a ball round the garden as much - their general health suffers.
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It's a shame when people, mostly the target readership of this blog and/or the original report, fail to understand something and are out to demonize it at the first opportunity.
I am a World of Warcraft player for over three years now but I am also currently working a placement in between my second and third years of a Computer Science degree. I have always had steady relationships and a reasonable level of academic performance. I also have a large circle of "real life" friends and healthy relationships with my coworkers.
The flaw with every "non-biased" news source that chooses to comment on the "problem" (I feel like I'm using inverted commas too much but then the article warrants it) is that you enter with the idea that you either play the game or you're an impartial observer.
You talk about your time interacting with those waiting to pick up Wrath of the Lich king as if they were wasting their time. You obviously believe that this isn't just any other hobby which is an opinion which totally poisons everything you write on the topic.
I find it rather peculiar that you have a psychotherapist as a reputable source in spite of the fact that he earns his money from convincing people (call me a pessimist) that there are problems with their lives. This man's livelihood is directly connected to the subject in a way that will blur his viewpoint.
Like many of the commentators above me I agree that the media is just demonizing video games in the exact same way it has done with every major media to date. Have you ever considered that the kids playing these games excessively and tanking their grades simply need better parents to say no?
Quite frankly I would rather my children (when I have them) spent their time on a MMO video game than in front of the television because at least it engages their brain and gives them social exposure.
Then again, I suppose you wouldn't know anything about MMOs. From your writings it's obvious you think they do nothing but turn people into mindless drones.
You're mistaken, that's what happens when you watch too much BBC news.
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I'm an established member of the European Gaming Community and I will say this.
World of Warcraft IS an addiction - and it IS dangerous.
For anyone out there playing more than 2 hours a night (14 hours a week) - i'm sorry, but you ARE addicted.
Shortly after starting World of Warcraft, you realise that the entire point in the game, is to play it NON-STOP.
Yes that's right - the entire point in the game (if you want to progress to the top) - is to have no life.
There is no way to actually progress in any real way, without sacrificing your social life, study, or job.
Anyone who says WoW isn't a problem to teenagers, is wrong.
First hand, I can tell you it is a distraction from study. For people with very little willpower, it is precisely what takes the mind off the problems of essays, University, and study, and precisely the thing that ruins your degree, or A-Levels.
If a person has willpower, and is able to play a few hours per week, and limit it to that - then GOOD.
But sadly most people do not, they have purchased a game, and want to experience it to the full - so they spend ENTIRE WEEKS infront of a PC playing WoW.
I suggest parents take much stricter measures to limit internet access and access to the family PC in future... otherwise we might have a generation of fat useless role-players.
Anyone who says WoW isn't a problem, is WRONG.
Thankyou.
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I think some people need to re-read the article, as the attacks on it are some what misguided.
I definitely agree with the points made about addiction to the game and addiction in general needs highlighting a lot more, as it can come in many guises. The addiction mentioned in the article I think is the tip of the iceberg especially when you take in to account the darker aspects that come with the addiction's extreme side. We've already had stories this year where people have actually killed others for an in-game 'items' (other games if I remember rightly).
I applaud Blizzard for attempting to reassert responsible gaming and in general they do have a win formula, unfortunately for them it does mean more responsibility. With a nigh on 60% market share of online gaming/MMORPG they are the Microsoft of this strand of the industry so naturally they will attract more of the media attention (especially if there is a negative aspect to their product).
The only comfort we can take from those that are addicted is at least they are addicted to a computer game, in terms of health worries it's not as severe as a drug or alcohol addiction, which is what they would be on if they didn't have WoW. Someone with an addiction has it in them to be so, what they are addicted to just depends on what was on offer at any particular time.
As for me, I play WoW, have done for over 3 years now. I'm lucky in that I could never succumb to addition thanks to my job, there are times when I get home and just can't stomach looking at a computer again. My wife plays as well, although slightly less than me so neither of us can afford the time to be hardcore raiders. It is very much a hobby, one that has creative input and a lot of money invested in over the years, occasionally, like tomorrow, I have the day booked off work (holiday needs using up before I loose it) and intend to play all day on the new expansion pack, well not all day as I have a friend's party to go to in the evening. But as I said I'm lucky some aspects of my life get in the way of me becoming addicted, but I could also see I someone could become so and there isn't anyone to really directly blame.
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My ex partner was an avid WOW player and I think his obsession with the game was in part responsible for our break up. I would never have a relationship with a gamer again.
Once gaming interfers with your everyday life, then I think it is a problem - even if you are not techincally addicted. My ex would try to avoid social events, or attend them and sulk because he was missing a raid. He would be unavailable for whole days and evenings while he raided. He would lie about why he hadn't answered phone calls. It affected his work (days off due to 'illness' - i.e. tired after late-night playing).
I tried to understand and take an interest but I could not see the attraction - for anyone, let alone a fully grown man. I did find myself judging him and had little respect left for him when we broke up.
Perhaps he's now with a fellow gamer and it will work out for them. Good luck to them. I'm looking for a man interested in real life...
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@#39
In my opinion, this is the kind of approach that creates some of the biggest problems in addressing real cases of "addiction".
"For anyone out there playing more than 2 hours a night (14 hours a week) - i'm sorry, but you ARE addicted."
Sorry, but you're either incorrect, or your logic is incomplete. I spend more than 14 hours some weeks on the BBC News website, more than that playing various games, and more than that watching television. Yet, I'm sorry, but I don't consider myself addicted to any of them.
The reason why: I'm no more irritable, cranky, or desperate to do any of these things if I haven't had a chance recently. Addiction requires a negative effect from withdrawal, which is not present in everyone meeting your arbitrary 14-hour criteria.
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Anything with the potential to fill a void, provide respite from a life lacking or a life someone's not that happy with can become addictive. Gaming is no different, especially on-line gaming where the emphasis is on multiplayer, with other real people. It's very easy to connect with the other players, working towards common goals with them (questing, item collecting, completing difficult objectives together, levelling up characters) and having fun in the process. With so many people playing there are a lot of potential friendships to be made. It's understandable to see how this safe inconsequential on-line life can appeal and easy to see how someone with an addictive personality could get hooked.
I've been a WoW player since its launch and have had time to open and grow a business which now employs 10 people but then again I, thankfully, don't have an addictive personality so I'm able to balance my pleasurable pastimes (WoW included) with my other commitments.
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MMO games allow for a more varied interaction compared to the linear arcade games you see on the consoles, you are able to run at your own pace & stop when you feel like it unlike arcade games that have fixed dynamics.
I do not think they are addictive though.
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James(number 38)
A couple of points. First of all Dr Graham is a psychiatrist not a psychotherapist. He does not seek out adolescents to treat, they are referred to him by a GP.
Secondly, you are right that I have no direct experience of playing MMOs but I do have a son who plays Warcraft, and manages to keep it within sensible limits so that it does not prevent him from studying or having a social life. And I think I've made it clear in the post that for millions of people it's just as valid as any other hobby.
Finally, I completely agree that it's up to parents to learn more about games so that they can have an informed discussion with their children about them.
By the way, the volume and quality of responses to this post have been fantastic. Thanks to all for engaging in the debate.
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I feel that an element of balance need be brought to the argument here. Addiction is the wrong word to use. It would be more correct to say that certain gamer demographs "Prefer" WoW to the real world.
Allow me to elaborate. I once ran a computer store in Glasgow. As well as laptops and desktops, the store also sold games, including predecessors of the current WoW. There was a specific group within the gaming comunity who took a particular interest in WoW. Everyone not part of this group knows someone who is. At primary school, he was the one who was ostracized from all of the social groups. At high school he had no friends and was often called a creep. Were he at school today, he would have a new and less provocative lable. He (or indeed, She) would be reffered to as having "Special Needs."
More often than not, this person has an Autism-related condition, ranging from the very mild to severe and complex. Socially awkward and often uncomprehending of suble communication such as eye contact, these "Wierdos" are banashed from social circles and treaded with scorn and derision by there peers.
In WoW however, they find release. In a world where they can indulge their fantasy and become what they cannot in the real world, is it any surprise that they choose to reside in the comparative safety of cyberspace safe from those that would inflict pain upon them.
I do not condone spending days at a time locked in a world that is essentially pretend. It is an external stimulus that allows them to feel in control, not really that different from an alcoholic finding solace. It is not healthy to waste vast tracts of time a la Matrix, but untill we as a culture learn to offer our weak a little more tolerance and teach our children to celebrate our differences rather than deride them, then people will continue to hide from the real world.
If you disagree with anything I have said, please post in reply, but before you do so, think back to your childhood and adolecence. Were you welcomed by your peers or shunned. More importantly, how did you treat those around you?
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Every big online game gets this: Everquest was called Evercrack. Its a joke - i've played WOW since the start and i've seen friends play way too much wow for months, but then just stop. I've stopped for 3 months and only went back to it when i've been bored. More people are addicted to TV (i watch about 4 hours a week). It's the personality of the person that is addicted to anything more then anything else, so if people are addicted to "A" game, then its better then them turning to drugs or drink. When i hear about people mugging old ladies to pay for their account, then i will put it under the title "Addiction"...
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Interesting points being made in the comments and from the article.
I am 43, Ive been playing online games since about 2002, some heavily like WoW, prior to that I played sport for 15 years with the same level of "enthuasiasm" (addiction).
This game has all the elements that will attract addicts - immersive, self rewarding, self esteem generation and escapism.
Yes there are parental controls but frankly with the poor parenting about these days I doubt these are effectively policed, and yes I can see teenagers that I play with obviously becoming addicted.
But.....the brutal facts are that if it wasnt this online game, it would be something else as I believe that this issue really stems from personality make up and peer and parental control.
I personally play too much, why? Because I enjoy it and frankly the output of television these days has sunk to lows that make very little of it attractive to watch.
Facts are this is a brilliant product - I think many companies would dance in the streets at the prospect of having 11m customers worldwide, and we can knock it in impact terms but the issue of reducing addiction to it lies 110% with the player/their parents, not the game.
I will be skipping the exciting east enders tonight - and will be embarking on the ship to Northrend to battle against the scourge of undead there - because lets face it ......the story line is FAR more credible !!!
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i think that it is important not to have a knee jerk reaction on either side to articles like this.
The cases of addiction are extreme but unfortunately they do occur.
I have been playing different games including WoW for the last few years and have come across people who have allowed the game to take an unhealthy hold of their life. I spoke to one guy recently who had been stealing from their parents to pay for a "gold seller" to send them gold in game.
At the moment I play Lord of the Rings Online, which as it suggests is set in Tolkien's middle earth. I play a couple of nights a week and limit myself to that. At the end of the day it should be a hobby and nothing else.
I feel I should mention that I am 27, am happily married, have a good social life and a good job. To me the game is a type of relaxation and my wife has no issue with this.
I guess perhaps if you are coming to these games when you are past school age then perhaps its easier to get things in perspective. But hey, there will always be an obsessive aspect to teenage life. I am a youthworker in my spare time and some of our teens seem to have an unhealthy appetite for celeb gossip, big brother etc.
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Basically, it's very simple: If you find yourself neglecting your family and ignoring your friends to sit in front to a computer every night of the week, then you need to ask yourself some serious questions.
It doesn't matter how awesome Quake is....
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I'm also a World of Warcraft play, and i do think it's right to acknowledge that addiction can be an issue.
I would take point though with the posters which say '2 hours or more a night and your addicted'. It should be judged against other pastimes and use of time. There are millions which spend evenings doing nothing but watching television, for many hours a night. Or reading, or down the pub. Addiction? Or simply lesiure time?
I personally set strict rules for myself. No playing beyond 10pm at night, and at least a few nights off a week and try not to play too much at weekends.
I make time for wife as much as possible, and always put her first over the game. As it should be.
I'm a responsible adult. I enjoy the game, just as in the past it might have been model railways or collecting stamps.
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I think the coverage of this angle is very pertinent and relevant. There are many who like to get on their high horse about bad-mouthing a hobby. In the majority of cases, any hobby/pastime or passion has no impact on the individiual. However simply looking at gambling, smoking, drinking, shopping and sex addictions shows that a simple pleasure/vice (depends on your view) can often become a real problem for a minority. When individuals start to become consumed by their passion & interest to the detriment of other things (health, family, education, finance) to a point that it changes behaviours and personality then that is a sign of an addiction.
I think the World of Warcraft following is fascinating and it's great to see something which has created such a worldwide community. Some of the World of Warcraft afficionados just need to be aware that some of their community may be more obsessed and addicted than others creating problems away from game.
It's only going to be a minority of people, but it's a very real problem. Just putting a £1 bet on the Grand National is fine for 99% of the country, but for 1% it's part of, or can stimulate a lot of other problems.
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MMOs most certainly can be addictive and anyone saying otherwise is in a rather cliched fashion truly in denial.
I've myself been addicted to MMOs, originally Ultima Online and then Dark Age of Camelot for a total of around 9 years.
But it's irrelevant, because unlike drugs, it's a controllable, primarily non-harmful addiction and the real story here should be the amount of people who are susceptible to addiction of some kind in the first place, for if it were not World of Warcraft you can guarantee many of these people would be addicted to watching TV, addicted to going down the pub, addicted to reading and this is where MMOs deserve the least scorn for being such a pasttime someone can get addicted to - it at least encourages social interation, it includes physical interaction with the computer and it involves putting your mind to work.
MMOs most certainly do offer rich social interactions, more so than say, talking on the phone or texting because multiple people are involved and they have goal based tasks. Furthermore they can teach leadership, they can teach problem solving, they can even teach patience. I'd argue that they can sometimes even help people finanacially, £8.99 a month is a hell of a lot cheaper entertainment than even two cinema trips, one pub trip or 2 movie rentals for example.
So do I regret my time as an MMO addict? No, not at all, I learnt so much talking to peers with similar interests, who perhaps worked in fields that interested me. I learnt so much about leadership, endurance and time management that frankly due to my online gaming addiction I came out a far better person than if say, just sat watching the television or spending my life drinking my money away at the pub.
Do I miss it? Kind of but I've also learnt balance, I now play Warhammer online but with a maximum of a few hours a week because I haveother interests. I now study at postgraduate level and for professional qualifications as a hobby and I do believe if I hadn't learnt patience to perform tough goal based tasks from MMOs I'd never have otherwise had the mindset to do this and be so succesful.
We must accept that MMOs are addictive, accept that some people are always going to be addicted to something or other to the point they take it too far (i.e. refuse to get a job) but simultaneously realise that this is not a problem with games, but a problem with some small minority of people as is the with many things. We must also accept that for those who aren't in this absolute tiny minority where they crave something to the point it's detrimental to them that we'll see the reverse effect- people who are much more well rounded individuals, with perhaps a better footing in life than those who do "normal" things such as spending their free time getting drunk or consuming non-interactive often simply mind rotting entertainment such as TV and books.
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Someone once said "that 1 in every 10,000 people are Psychopaths". Imagine how many play WOW - that's more worrying.
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I've never been a WoW fan... I have, however, been into EVE online, Final Fantasy online etc. Do I think they're addictive? Perhaps not. I don't think how much people use them is particularly healthy though...
The thing is, you play your MMORPG and your character learns skills, finds equipment, completes quests, but what do YOU do? We can talk about the social benefits (as many people have) but you can't tell me it's as social as actually finding a passtime where you go meet people face to face and make new friends.
Like I said, I've spent my time on MMORPG's, but they offered me nothing more than lost evenings and weekends... MMORPG's are not exclusive in this though, all computer games are! I can remember first playing Final Fantasy 7 when it was released so many years ago and losing days to it! In hindsight I don't think I'd take that approach again. Yes, I enjoyed them, much like I enjoy a good book or a film, but I don't feel they have the SUBSTANCE that a well written book has...
Of course I'm not saying teenagers should shun games for the more traditional adolescent pursuits of drinking and sexual discovery, but maybe they should temper their virtual discoveries with real ones... learn real skills, even if they're things that maybe have no real application career wise... take up Karate, flower arranging, ballroom dancing, Salsa, the piano, boxing, gymnastics. Self esteem can be built in a million ways, but confidence you build in a computer game can never be taken elsewhere other than the game.
And before people start saying I don't know what I'm talking about I've been that low self esteem computer game addict. I've searched for new beginnings in worlds that don't exist. I decided to throw my comfort zone in the bin though and now I'm a 28 year old drummer with a high pressure but highly rewarding job. I guarantee that no matter how much people love their virtual lives, they'll love their real lives even more once they start living them...
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Very fair article, I played WoW on the free 14 day trial and I can see the very more-ish aspect of the game "just one more quest", and while I wasn't overly immersed, my studies would have curtailed any addiction, without a doubt.
You don't claim anything contentious, the personal observations of an expert in the field are hard to ignore but are also based on his personal findings. Swings and roundabouts.
What I must criticise, however (and this is my only gripe), the "study" you referenced, quoting WoW addiction at "between 10 - 15%" has been widely discredited. The female psychologist (her name escapes me) admitted that she carried out very little research and only observed a forum of players, thus her figures are very raw 'guestimates' and she also admitted that the figure is probably more likely 1-3%, defending herself by claiming that it highlights the scale of the issue as 0.1% of the current WoW community being addicted would still be massive amount of people.
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This has been going on for a long time, I play games too and I hate how fanboys start screaming anti-game bias at the first sign of criticism. It's nice to see someone in the media brave enough to go against the violent defensive tirades from these people. It's sad how it's become their life so much that criticism against it is viewed as an attack on them personally.
One thing it certainly ties in with is the growing obesity epidemic in the UK, this short video slideshow is very true to life from what I have seen of internet addicts: www.tinyurl.com/warcrap
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Just bought the game, can anyone tell me how to beat the dwarf viking on the forest level?
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Mastering the endgame in Warcraft takes significant amounts of time from every week.
Being in a guild that is achieving server first, second or third kills of raid bossess will require at least three nights a week attendance of 4 hours a piece. These will be planned in advance and repeated failure to attend will result in removal from the guild.
Gathreing the in game money \ materials to be prepared enough to attempt a successful nights raiding will take at least another 4 hours out of the week.. most likely more. Repeated failure to prepare for raids will result in removal from the guild.
Reading the tactics and mechanics for new raids and character progression will eat in to 2 hours or more a week. Repeatedly not knowing the tactics or your class mechanics will result in removal from the guild.
End Game raiding is more like a job than a hobby.
For many many people this isn't representative of the game they play.. it's a bit of light relief with social networking thrown in for good mix. To these people talk of addiction is met with derision.. and rightly so. However for many more this is representative of what they do every week. To thise people it is an addiction they dont notice and they need to realise that the only way to win warcraft is to quit warcraft.
Google "wow detox"
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Dear Lord, why does every journalist that covers online gaming go for the same "you didn't realise how addictive and terrible an mmo is" angle. What about the people who manage to connect with people through the games. If these kids that do get addicted didn't latch on to Warcraft then they'd be addicted to something else that causes their grades to slip and worries their parents. That's another thing, WHAT ARE THESE CHILDREN'S PARENTS DOING?!?!?! They just sit by and say "oh no my child is addicted" and send them to a "professional" to deal with their child so they don't have to. Imagine that, a parent having to stop their child from doing something fun. Imagine if they threw a tantrum, oh no, i'll just sent them to a doctor and have them take care of it all for me so I can get back to watching 4 hours of soaps every night and whatever else the TV guide tells me to watch.
I really wish some journalist out there would do an article about online games that doesn't spit out the same buzz phrases every time: addictive, evil, social lepers.
Didn't they used to say the exact same thing about Dungeons and Dragons a few decades ago? and did it cause the apocalypse, no because every generation will have something that most of society considers "it's downfall" so learn from the past and get over it.
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Firstly, I find that the game itself to be a boring grind. Click this character, press a few buttons, watch it die, skin it and loot it... Repeat, repeat, repeat.
There are many things to get addicted to, and for me WoW isn't one of them. But I can tell you now, if I was walking through Birmingham on a Saturday evening, and bumped into 20 people addicted to WoW, or 20 people addicted to alcohol, I know which group I'd feel safer and more content in the company of.
I don't think dedicating huge amounts of time to a subscription game where you cannot get any fiscal or physical reward of any kind is particularly beneficial or healthy, and I'd much prefer to buy a game of 15 - 20 hours length with a complete story mode than WoW's more fluid, subscription based system with a story that never really ends. However, out of everything you could possibly get addicted to, WoW really is low in the scheme of things when it comes to being dangerous or unhealthy.
Lets be fair Rory. Would you prefer your teenage son in the house for 3 hours a night playing WoW and chatting with his friends who play on it, or sat in a park leaning promiscuity too young with a bottle of cheap cider?
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A balanced report on World of warcraft but what needs looking at is what is so addictive about world of warcraft? There are other on line communities playing games but no other one seems to have the problems that this one does.
In my experience it is the college and uni aged young people that get in the worst trouble with W o W.
My son and his friend both became addicted to WoW and I do not use the term loosley, I believe that addicted is a very over used term but they both withdrew totally from society, gave up studies and refused to get jobs. My son would only go out of the house to go to his friends house to sit in his room playing often through the night, as he had no income he started stealing to cover both the costs of playing and his day to day expenses. At home I tried to disconnect his internet when we went to bed so he could not access the computer during the night but he would come into our bedroom when we were asleep to reconnect to the entry point in our bedroom, we cut the wire to his room in the end and he stole a new lead from a local shop and broke into our bedroom when we were out to reconnect, I removed internet access from the house for some time so that none of us could access the internet so we saw very little of him he came home only rarely and spent all his time at "friends" who were also playing. He stopped washing and started smoking canabis and dabbling in other drugs. If the subject of the game was mentioned he became violent towards me and my husband. The levels of aggression he showed if he was interupted whilst playing were seriously scary he is over 6ft and he would behave like he was possessed. He would play until he fell asleep still clutching his keyboard and wake up roll over and start playing again.
His friend spent as long as he could stay awake on line playing sometimes playing for 40 hours before falling asleep with the keyboard on his lap. He wouldn't leave the room to eat and became medically underweight, he urinated into bottles as he wouldn't leave the room to go to the bathroom and eventually became ill from undereating, lack of daylight and developed agoraphobia.
My son was "saved" from WoW by the friends sister, she was an attractive girl and for some reason wanted to go out with him and after a few months of trying she persuaded him to go out with her and he became more interested in her than the game but he has had a few relapses when things are not going well in life for him. He uses it in the way an alchoholic might use drink, when he can't cope he goes back to WoW.
This experience has damaged both boys and although they have both started to recover they are not truly recovered yet and many relationships within both families have been badly damaged probably permanently.
I know some people can play these games safely and have the sense to see when they have a problem but a high percentage of young people who start playing World of Warcraft seem to develop problems, and these are not at all like someone who spends too much time infront of the tv or who has a hobby.
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Interesting article, but i dont think you have really covered the benefits of playing WoW.
I read an article in a IT Industry journal talking about how virtual worlds are being used to train a future leaders.
For example in WoW there is the organisational skill of grouping with other player to achieve and complete objectives which cannot otherwise be complete on your own. The social skills and communication skills, the learning and problem solving and perserverance to achieve success can be likened to any other role in business and life. Infact businesses are hiring people WoW players as managers as they have demonstrated the skills of managing large groups of individuals.
Is a student addicted to learning / reading information? Is an athlete addicted to physical training? Is a business person addicted to working long hours? No because society has a positive view on this. Do these activities cause harm to people? Yes is some way, athelete over train, burn out. Business stress of over working causes harm to families and some people commit suicide.
For me WoW is escapeism, i play it to take a break from normal life. I play it with my real life friends and family and randon people. Does it do me any harm? could i use my time more constructively? maybe, maybe not. Could i stop playing WoW easily yes. I stopped for about 6 months, but i kept playing other computer games. Wow isnt addictive, computer gaming is addictive.
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The argument i don't get is the one about "restructuring our life arround WoW" means your addicted. Surely thats what i and others do when they play sport, we train in the evenings and thus have to rearrange our social lives around it. We have matches on saturdays, thus we can't go out on friday night. We can't eat certain foods because it would hamper our ability on the pitch.
And there are endless examples of rearranging ones life around a certain activity, it doesn't mean its an addictive activity, it just means that you have to do things at an organised time so it suits others and you do certain things so that you don't let the side down.
#58 i think you have to shield slam then execute, not sure though :)
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I've been playing WoW since it's European release and I have to say my experience in the game has been very similar to those of Commenter number 3- I ended up neglecting my partner due to the large amount of time I spent raiding. Our relationship at the time wasn't perfect, and I think with hindsight I used the game as a way to avoid dealing with our problems, but in the end our relationship suffered even more, to the point where it was a case of either sacrificing my relationship or stop raiding. I am extremely glad I chose the latter.
WoW is a great game and I still thoroughly enjoy it, and I've met some brilliant friends through playing it, but it can be very dangerous in that it can swallow up huge amount of time you should be spending doing something else (studying for example) whilst simultaneously giving you a false sense that you've 'achieved' something (levelled up, beat a raid boss, etc).
So, yeah. WoW can be very addictive, but not all players are addicted to WoW. I am looking forward to playing WOTLK, but I definitely won't be devoting as much time to it as I did previously.
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#63 http://gigaom.com/2008/05/27/analyzing-mmo-battles-to-build-a-better-workforce/ citing a harvard paper.
And there is one by IBM on a similair topic as well.
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@ comment 46, I'm quite concerned by your posting, to relate 11million people who Play WoW and the countless other millions who play video games (MMO or Footie Manager) to social rejects and to suggest that they suffer with an Autism-related condition, seems very ignorant. Evidently I can't speak for the other 10,999,999 but I know that whilst at school and now I wasn't the socially awkward type you have described. I'm also a winter sports enthuiast and a rugby player through school, university and currently. WoW is a hobby, escapism if you will, but little more than one of many past times with which I spend my oftern limited free time.
If people were a little more self disciplined or practised a little more self control they could curb their excessive habbits, like discuss how United are doing all day every day >:))
I would like to see your evidence for the link with Autism, what with your medical degree and all...
I'm slightly offended that you dont condone what 11million people chose to do with their spare time, personally I don't care less how you chose to spend yours.
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Well I'm another one into "WoW", 31 years old and in a decent job - It can be addictive at times and you do have to balance it with "Real" life. I do find it a good way to socialise with friends who I can't always see though, so there are benefits - it is a community after all rather than a mindless single-player game.
The thing that strikes me most of all though is that I'd rather have teenagers playing WoW, generally being pleasant people in most cases than being drunken yobs on the street stabbing people.
The reason many kids get into gaming is because parents would rather them do this than be outside in the ever-degrading society we have in this country. If it means a few chubby teenagers rather than skinny, white-tracksuit, cap wearing yobs hanging around outside the local shops with a can of special brew (no doubt intimidating old ladies) then I'm all for it.
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"As an emerging - some would say emergent - medium the impact of gaming is still being explored. "
Darren, video games have been with us for 30 years now. My first ever machine was an Atari 2600, which I had in 1989, aged 7. It was released originally in 1977. We have literally, entire generations of people now brought up playing and enjoying video games. Everyone under 30 will have owned at least one machine, be it a Game Boy, NES, SNES, Mega Drive/Genesis, Playstation.
140,000,000 PS2's have been sold since it was released in 2001, and before than 102,000,000 original Playstation machines.
There have been movies based on video games now for 15 years, as well as video game themed films for 25 years (WarGames) and films made to promote video games (The Wizard) for 18 years.
This year more is going to be spent on video games than on films and music combined.
Just how long does gaming have to be around, and how successful does it have to be before you'll no longer consider gaming as "emergent"
If gaming is emergent, the BBC is a low budget plucky little broadcasting upstart...
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RE my comment #57, I didn't realise links could be clickable tile someone else did it above... weird how it apparently doesn't recognise "www" like most online email...
anyway, the correct link then (fingers crossed) is:
http://www.tinyurl.com/warcrap/
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"Leeeeerroyyyyyyy"
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I was hoping someone would highlight the dangers of WoW sooner rather than later.
I have to agree with Dunhoping's comments as I fit into that category (have an active social life, young family and work in a demanding IT job during the day).
I was introduced to WoW through work incidently, overhearing some colleagues talking about an aspect of WoW, I was mesmerized and wanted to know what it was that had them so excited (like kids in a toy store).
Like Dunhoping I got hooked, went through the cycle of being a "n00b" and then eventually becoming an active member in a number ranked raiding guild on my server.
The guild was great, we were hardcore about raiding but had a good internal structure and social order, being mostly adult players there were many moments of comedy and Monty Python esque verbal kung-fu going on (I just made that up).
But it all got too much, started affecting my personal life and I actually found myself addicted at the end of 2 years of playing WoW.
I had to make the decision and I did, deleting my characters and closing my subscription - this worked, for over a year I was very content and found other things to do (taking up trackday racing etc) however WoW has a way of getting you back.
Some of my real life friends had returned to WoW and formed a social guild, a no pressure environment where the emphasis was on fooling about as much as possible but without the drama of being in a rigid military like guild.
And I am still here, I enjoy WoW but not for the game (evident in the fact that I have only one level 70 character), I enjoy the social aspect. It's nice to come home from work, make some time after seeing to the kids and logging onto Ventrilo (voice communication) to join into some random Monty Python style conversation about monkeys invading our guild leaders bedroom followed by an hour in the game to try out some player-vs-player fun or do the odd heroic dungeon quest while we talk about the days affairs on the voice chat system.
But I will not be getting the expansion, at least not yet.
One thing I found is taking a break from WoW has greatly changed my perspective and I think part of the problem is that the players simply do not detach from WoW.
Were they to do that, even if it was for a few months, they would loose that sense of urgency and desire to carry on playing.
WoW is very cleverly engineered, as a product its executed very well and I seriously doubt even the likes of Warhammer will put a dent in the game sales and popularity.
But on the flip side you can see the machinations at play in WoW - designed to hook the player in very deeply, especially so in the materialistic greed system that is present in the game.
It's all about the gear in WoW, this is highlighted visually by Blizzard (the authors of WoW), each item looks unique and is colourful in a way that it helps difrentiate one player from another but it also creates a system where your forever playing to upgrade your items for the "next best ones".
Now WoW truely is for all types of gamers, there was a time in WoW where if you were not in a guild, you only saw 50% of the game however with the new content, may game improvements and so forth, WoW really does appeal to any type of person.
You have two sides to it now:
One half of the community is made up of an adult audiance, usually professional people who play for the social aspect (the ability to form friendships with people all over the globe is enticing).
On the other half you have the hardcore Xbox/PS3 generation - purely about materialistic rewards who want to be "no 1" even if it means the fame only lasts 1 day at the cost of 2 weeks of hardcore gaming with no sleep.
WoW will most likely still be around long after the human race has ceased to exist hehe
Adios,
Finkletitbot - yes my gnome has pink hair
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For the people wondering why it's World Of Warcraft that keeps coming up in BBC addiction pieces, it's worth pointing out that WoW is a PC-only game, and therefore does't require you to pay a TV licence to play. Just saying.
Less sarcastically, I think a major issue in the perception of games addiction is how games as a whole are covered by mainstream outlets such as the BBC- it's very rare you see games seeing any sort of coverage- even positive coverage- that doesn't start "Gamer geeks are delighted that..." or "Thousands of gaming addicts decended upon...".
This not only diminishes the artform itself (you don't hear Gary Lineker opening MOTD with "Evening, hooligans!", do you? BBC Four announcers referring to their viewers as snobs?) but also, if it actually exists and isn't just a lack of dicipline, the notion of games addiction, which leads to sensationalist, kneejerk journalism like the vast majority of these kind of pieces, ludicrously low amounts of time compared to other hobbies spent gaming being considered an "addiction" (for instance, two hours- the length of most films, or the time it takes to watch most sporting events on Satellite) and most importantly, a lack of help and attention to real problems.
What doesn't help is that the BBC isn't doing proper games coverage- and what little there is, even now, is still hidden in Technology and not where it should be, in Entertainment. The last time the BBC made a games show, it was only ever shown on the website and not publicised.
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@70
1. This isn't online e-mail
2. In response to your original e-mail, you'll find those images are from the South Park episode "Make Love Not Warcraft" which actually goes into the levels of obsession some people have with the game, which in SOME cases start to become unhealthy... But I'll think you'll find that happens to all kinds of people in all kinds of situations, about all kinds of things.
Oh, and to further add to the discussion of the South Park episode. It was actually made in collaboration with the makers of World of Warcraft, who are fully aware of their passionate fans sometimes over zealous love of their games.
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A lot of people arguing against this article seem to be doing so from a very personal viewpoint - "I don't consider myself to be addicted, therefore I'm not and you're making this addiction story up to be sensationalist". One question is, if a game isn't such an important part of someone's life, why do people need to defend their playing it, or it against other games, so vehemently?
Unfortunately, there's nothing at all made up about addiction to computer gaming. People have died because the computer game has been more important than eating, drinking, sleeping and going to the toilet. The last widely reported occasion I know of was a Korean male playing a sci-fi RTS game, but I remember similar occurences with Everquest as well. I played EVE for a long time and there were a number of people who always seemed to be there, regardless of what time of day it was.
Just because something is not "the norm", does not make it an ignorable problem. I remember from my days seriously playing MMOGs (mainly EVE) that it can very easily take up far more of your time than you intended it to, or, indeed, realise it does.
I never got deep enough into any MMO for long enough to get absorbed in the way that I know a lot of people have, but it can still control your life, which isn't really a healthy thing whether you want to call it an "addiction" or not.
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I belive that your report is extremely inaccurate and wish for you to remove it.
I am personally a 15 year old whos plays this game and am not addicted and i am predicted an A* in many of my subjects including maths,english and science.
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My gnome has pink hair and pigtails as well.
It's the only way to go when you're killing a big nasty orc or rotting undead!
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Actually, thats something I'm truely curious about...
Video gaming is massive in this country, £4.64bn spent on it this year. Why does the BBC not seem to deem this huge audience deserving of some of the licence fee?
Well, if you're in Scotland and were able to watch videogaiden, but what about the rest of the country? Wheres the Gaming section in Entertainment (not technology!) on the BBC News site? Music and films have plenty of coverage... Wheres the gaming equivalent of click?
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I read your article and the associated comments with interest. I am a 40 something working Mother, who also has an interest in gaming (I got pretty involved with Morrowind). As a Mother of 2 boys, I understand only too well the lure of the technologically enhanced virtual world.
I accept, to a point, the arguments about this being a 'parenting' problem - wresting a 12 year old off the Wii to go to bed on a school-night is testament to the abandoning of an 'easy life' choice.
However, as a wife of a husband who became 'addicted' to a game a few years ago, gaming can have very real and very damaging effects. As some of the other commentators here have stated, it is often the families of gamers who are most affected. I agree that as a hobby, playing video games (on or off-line) is harmless and safe - but it is when that game becomes the main focus of your life, or at least interferes with natural communication and interaction between others in your family or friendship group that problems occur.
People are wrong to generalise that all gaming is 'bad', or that all gamers are 'addicted' - but responsible game developers should be aware that these gaming environments CAN have an extremely detrimental affect on the mental health and well-being of certain individuals.
Quite what is done about this I don't know - but I do know the monumental effort it took to break my husband of this damaging addiction - and bring him back to his family. His work did not suffer, but his family did - he can now see just how difficult this time was for the rest of us.
I also accept that this 'addiction' was in response to external pressures and escapism was at it's heart, much like an alcoholic drinks to achieve 'numbness' or to escape.
Again, gamers - just because you are not addicted, please remember that there are others out there whose work, relationships and family are suffering because of games like World of Warcraft.
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I think the article is right in saying WoW is a game which is very easy to get addicted to but I think its wrong to assume that this is a new issue. I'm in my second year of university and wasn't playing WoW when I did my gcses or alevels yet there were other things that I got distracted by and spent many hours on instead of working, i.e youtube, facebook and myspace. I even spent ridiculous amounts of time playing freecell just to avoid revising.
I think its nieve to think that if WoW ceased to exist suddenly all teenagers would spend their time studying. There have always been distractions and things that teenagers have become addicted to.
Its important to point out that WoW can be played in a very healthy way as well as an unhealthy way. There is a huge difference in playing a couple of nights a week for a few hours as I do compared to some of the people I've spoken to who literally only have WoW.
WoW is a friendly and fun game but as with most things is only good in moderation.
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"People have died because the computer game has been more important than eating, drinking, sleeping and going to the toilet."
And far more people have died because they've decided to climb over train tracks... What should we do about those evil trains?
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I don't think it is unreasonable for journalists to be writing about this issue. True, some present a more balanced and retional perspective than others, but that doesn't mean we should seek to curtail discussion and dismiss these writers as alarmists.
The debate about videogames addition is an interesting one; I myself am a fan of many games and have found myself on occasssion playing for far longer than I intended - driven by a compulsion that is to some extent beyond my ability to control. I have never played Warcraft - neither it's graphics, gameplay, storyline or community hold a great deal of interest for me. But I do have a younger brother who plays - and the effects are clear.
Often, I will ask my brother if he wants to go out and go bowling, or something similar; and these suggestions are usually met with strong resistance, occasionally anger. When I manage to persuade him to leave the game and come out, however, he inevitably enjoys the change of activity and we have a great time. In fact, he frequently seems to be relived to have done something other than play W.o.W.
I do, however, feel that the debate surrounding video game addiction is really missing the point. By considering it in isolation, journalists, educationalists, bloggers and many others are failing to appreciate it for what it is - part of a wide ranging and systematic problem with a society in which young people derive a greater sense of prupose and accomplishment from escapist activities than the do from 'real' life. By way of example, I shall refer to the game I spent longer playing than any other: Oblivion.
Some reasons why Oblivion is better than real life:
1. In Oblivion I am a homeowner. (In real life I rent a single room in a house full of strangers).
2. In Oblivion, my employment is personally and financially rewarding, varied, and I'm good at it. (None of these apply in real life).
3. In Oblivion I can talk to anyone I meet, and I'm a respected member of my community. (In London I feel isolated, I've never met my neighbours and am not a part of any 'community').
This is, admittedly, a somewhat facetious example - but I hope it illustrates a point - the problem is not with videogames. It is with a socuiety in which an increasingly large number of young people feel isolated, unfulfiled and unable to improve their circumstances. While this remains the case, more and more people will fall into additions of all kinds, and it is this, not videogames that should attract the attention of our government, media and education system.
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#75 - "One question is, if a game isn't such an important part of someone's life, why do people need to defend their playing it, or it against other games, so vehemently?"
Who says it's not an important part of someone's life? Why should it not be an important part of life?
It's a hobby, one that very often involves forming lasting relationships with other people, and one that is certainly more active than slouching in front of the television.
What if I were to start accusing anyone that like to watch more than an hour of football twice a week of addiction?
I mean, they take time out from social engagements to go to matches, which takes them away from social engagements and real life!
And those terrible, nerdy, isolated book readers! Some of them reading every night! Not able to go to sleep without their fix!
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#81 epic! hahaha
People who play wow are stereotyped far too much and this needs to change in my opinion.
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@57, evilkitty1:
"I hate how fanboys start screaming anti-game bias at the first sign of criticism."
This is not something exclusive to gamers- start digging into places where fans of more specialist music, film and sport hang out and you'll find the same thing- remember the Emos marching on the Daily Mail? Anonymous vs. Scientology?
The only difference is that it's very rare anti-game criticism is anything other than sensationalist nonsense (nobody making sensible criticism, and there has been some, has seen the same reaction) and criticism of games tends to be in the mainstream, whereas criticism of other forms tends not to get the same publicity.
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WoW was not the first MMO to see this type of thing. I played Everquest the original MMO that really started it all (well just after Ultima). Everquest gained the nickname by users of Evercrack...says it all really.
The main thing about why you get addicted is two fold - the social side in which you make good friends and chat/talk/play together and secondly the greed factor.
The greed factor is in essence driven from wanting your character which you have invested months to have the 'cool stuff' other have. In a sad way you want others to aspire to be as 'cool' as you - this means to have the best items (armor, swords, spells whatever).
It all sounds very sad but the way in which your time becomes dominated by seeking new treasure to 'better' in game means you are constantly striving to achieve goals which in turn make you 'cooler' to the dooodz that live in these worlds.
It's playground mentality gone mad.
I never bought WoW as i spent 5 years playing everquest and only just escaped with my career intact. i would wake early to log in and trade, i would leave work early to get home for a raid, i would scan websites all day at work about the latest cool stuff to get and tactics to try to get the cool stuff.
It sounds so very sad when i write it all out now but when you are obsessed you never look up.
My wife thought i was crazy at the time and to be honest i look back now and agree with her.
End of the day we all have adicted personalities to a lessor or greater degree. i sadly found i had a hugely addicted personality to a silly 3D world that took over my life and made me forget about eating.
After writing this down i now feel better...perhaps this is the last step in my self help plan looking back at a time when i never knew what i was getting into until it was too late.
Now just to stop myself buying a PC that will run these games - partly why i run a rubbish laptop now :)
I'm 39years old by the way and yes i know i sound very sad after reading the above...
I was an Evercrack addicted - always will be...
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People have addictive natures.
Things are addictive - alcohol, drugs, exercise, food, work etc
The problem sits with the individual and not that to which they are addicted.
There's seems to be a streak of puritianism that makes an issue of addiction to games or drugs an issue and not that of addiction to exercise, food or work.
Book worms from years ago...those teens who spent their whole life reading, trainspotters...avid chess players...same thing as these WoW addicts really.
Rubbish game though imho.
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Everyone has an addiction, even the writer of this blog will have one. Do you go home, after a hard day's work, eat your dinner then sit down from 8pm to 11pm every night and watch TV? your addicted.
What about those people who go to the gym for 2 hours 6 days a week, they are addicted.
All those people who watch, drink, eat, sleep and talk football? They are addicted.
I think this is just a stereotypical knee jerk reaction by the BBC and those Nanny groups. The vast majority of WoW players play it because they enjoy playing, enjoy the social aspect of it. Where is the social aspect of TV? reading? Or even watching a football match (unless you call yelling abuse at the player social).
Maybe if one of these research/psychologist groups decided to do some proper research into what causes addiction to certain things instead of focusing on the Horror of the moment, then maybe we will get some proper, real life results. But, naturally, this wont happen because the media like to blow things out of proportion and cast a shadow over anything that suddenly becomes popular.
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@ 74
Thanks for enlightening us all over the obviously confusing question of whether this blog is in fact email... ~slow clap~
I was just using that as an example, forums and stuff usually do the same thing with www too, I was just surprised at such a basic thing being missing that's all. I also knew it was from South Park etc, that doesn't make it any less true in fact it's a fairly rare example of Truth in Television!
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I enjoy playing "old fashioned" role playing games (D&D though not that 4th Edition rubbish...... Warhammer, Everquest etc) a couple of times a week. We all start at a certain time, finish at a certain time and there is plenty of human to human interaction.
However, I do know someone who used to roleplay, who once used up his entire two week holiday to play WoW. The only time he emerged from his room was to use the bathroom (I hope he showered each day, but cannot confirm that).
Much as I agree there are far worse things in life, I worry about anyone who can spend fourteen solid days in front of a computer screen playing one game. When confronted by concerned friends, he just announced he had levelled his two characters over 70th level (or something similar) and was noticed by everyone else to struggle with natural light. I rarely see this friend now as he goes to work, comes home, then turns on the computer.
Many of my none "geeky" friends ask if I play such games and I refuse to as I am afraid that as I am single with few committments, I will fall into the trap of running to my computer once arriving home and staying there until it was time to me to go back to work.
I will happily buy any game that has a beginning, middle and more importantly an end!!
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@ Peterrockwell
Having read the article and the comments in detail, my conclusion is that WoW players are irritated that, yet again, WoW is being blamed for addiction, problems with school work etc in such a sweeping manner. Also, very few comments "attack" the article as you claim.
Obviously everything should be open to journalistic examination but your response of "I can only conclude that those taking offence are either in denial or have an enormous chip on their shoulder" does seem to be missing the point. The WoW-er point of view is that yes, there are some people who will develop an addiction to the game but, of the 11 million users, how many genuinely have a problem? this article does make it sound like all WoW-ers have issues.
Firstly, the addiction issue - yes, those who are addicted need help, but it is the minority. And one has to wonder, if they weren't playing WoW would they have no addiction, or would they just be addicted to something else... perhaps something that could actually kill them...
Secondly, this article does imply that all children who play have problems in school as a result of WoW. Again, this is a misrepresentation of Wow - it does have time management facilities so that a parent (or the child/teen themselves) can set a time limit for gaming. Obviously, any child playing a game until 5am in unhealthy, but how do their parents not know that they are? surely the parents are at fault here, not Wow?
Finally, this is where i come clean. I am 27 and a casual WoW-er. i play for around 2 hours most days, but i also have other hobbies and i hold down a very good job. I am in a guild with other 20/30 somethings, some of whom let their kids play. Every child that i have met through WoW knows when they have to stop playing. And what about the benefits? other than making friends and building social skills (yes, really!) WoW is great at teaching you to think more strategically, to be more goal oriented, to work as a team, to analyse situations and identify the most efficient way of solving a quest... I don't know about you, but when i am recruiting staff, these are all things that make it onto my list of required skills.
I do strongly believe in everything in moderation and that should include WoW, but lets try to keep this in perspective. It's just a GAME!
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@81 & 83
By trying to belittle the point, you are proving it. Why is it that gamers get so defensive about how "harmless" it is as a hobby? I'm not belittling WoW players, I'm saying that some people - be they WoW, EVE, EQ, Starcraft or any other game, players, take things too far.
Exactly the same applies to people who train athletically to the point where it costs them friendships, relationships and families - it's not healthy and probably an addiction then, as well. There's nothing special or specific about computer games here other than that unlike sports training or something similar, someone in the privacy of their own home is less likely to have the signs of a problem detected.
The train argument is utterly spurious and irrelevant.
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#85 I do agree a bit with you there, it's wrong that there's never any criticism of other things - but I still think this point is valid.
I consider football on the same level as Warcrack really, it's just another thing pandering to animalistic pack thinking (sheep effect) and greed really.
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@93: You're right, other things are criticised. Just not (or rarely) by the BBC, or other major news media players.
Like I say though, sensible criticism generally sees acceptance, and that's what matters.
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@92
er... i think it was meant to be a joke and not a serious argument.
My advice to people is to lighten up. Like most addicts, the only thing that WoW addicts hurt is themselves. If they can't admit they have a problem then they can't be sorted out. I know hundreds of WoW players and only very few have such a problem.
Let's get some perspective here!.
Why not focus on real problems like getting kids off the streets and interacting socially?
Perhaps they should play WoW?
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Where do you get off telling people what to do with their lives? There are people addicted to all kinds of things, why don't you do a piece on them - or better yet, why doesn't the BBC keep it's personal opinions to itself & focus on actual NEWS.
Now get back to glorifying Pete Doherty or Amy Winehouse.
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Oh and when I say never criticism of other things I mean other "hobbies"... I don't think in all my life growing up in the UK seeing and reading BBC I've ever seen a documentary or article about the negative aspects of football, where violence and even deaths keep occurring over again, it's disappointing and I think people that play games ("gamers" sounds so childish) are an easier target and the media is too scared of sheep backlash and negative "ratings"...
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Well there are plenty more evil and addictive forms of entertainment out there.
High School Musical for example.....
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Main Character: Baltaur, Tauren Shaman. Server: Azjol-Nerub.
Game Time: Over 200 Days!!!
I played for over 200 full days on my main in just 2 years and this was not unusual for people in my guild (many achieved much more or were too ashamed to say)
I clocked that during my first 2 years at university when I could manage 50 hours a week gaming and not have it effect my social life or my studies. How people hold down a job and play at an end-game level (professional/raiding guild) is another story however. This game costs people dearly but dam its fun being UBER!!!!!
p.s. Baltaur was deleted over a year ago due to work/social commitments (these rank higer to me than a game, for many they do not)
RIP Baltaur hahahaha!!!!!!!!
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@62
I sympathise with the problems you've had with your son, but your comments read like WoW got your son addicted to drugs and such like.
WoW was merely a catalyst to those issues, if WoW wasn't around it would have been something else that caused them. I'm sorry to say your son has deeper problems it just so happens that this game is his self medication to solve or at least calm those problems.
Sorry but comments like "high percentage of young people who start playing World of Warcraft seem to develop problems" are off the cuff, unsubstatiated and can cause more harm than good. Let's not forget the company that owns this product also has employees it needs to pay, if we burn WoW at the stake due to knee jerk reactions, what's next on our list as a society.
These issues definately need highlighting and more information provided to hopefully avoid or at least find out early on if people will be susepticle to the sort of troubles that have afflicated poster 62's son.
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Hi
I am an EQ2 player, and playing this has brought joy to my life.
And by this, I mean I met my H2B in the game. Yes a real-life romance!
So yes the online gaming world does have some problems, the community style of online gaming can also bring great benefits!
M
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@95 - the thing that pays for my gaming habit is the railway industry, so the jibe hits a bit close to home. However, I agree that I'd far rather have kids playing games than playing chicken with or throwing stones at trains. >1000 tons of freight train versus about 120 pounds of human = not pretty at all.
The reason WoW gets singled out, I think, is because it's the obvious target right now. It's a global phenomenon and as such people can relate to it. Prior to that it was very much Everquest that was the target and, as has been said on many occasions, before computer games something else was destroying society. The Daily Mail classes will find a new target eventually!
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I wouldn't deny that computer games can be temporarily addictive. I've seen a lot of people at various points get hooked on various games. I've never seen anyone fail to get over then, generally when life threw up something more interesting or when they suddenly decided that they were bored. All those people declaring that they were once hooked but managed to free themselves aren't as they think, the exceptions, they're one version of the normal cases.
WoW is more interesting that previous games, is better designed, more interactive and keeps your attention for longer. It is inevitably going to have the result of making a number of its players want to play it to the exclusion of everything else. That's not always healthy, especially if they have work, exams and marriages to look after. But it's not a magic feature of online games. It's a feature of providing any absorbing activity that can be done without stopping.
As a teenager I was like that for a while about reading; I would secretly stay up half the night, would become bad-tempered about having to stop for meals and family events, would take my book to school and read it under the table, would neglect my homework and hate the idea of real life intruding. It didn't last long, fortunately, but it had exactly the same features as WoW "addiction". Looking back, I don't blame the books for being interesting, I recognise that there were tough things about being a teenager and books were a good way to avoid them for a while., untlil the pressure eased or other things came along to keep my interest.
My son (16) plays WoW on the PC in his bedroom. I suspect that he plays a lot more than 2 hours a night. He spends most of his otherwise unoccupied free time playing. But he is completely unconcerned about being taken away from it for weekends or even several weeks holiday; he's interested in other activities with us and with his friends, he can be called downstairs for dinner or to do something with us without any resistance, he doesn't stay up late and he's doing 5 A levels without any sign of homework neglected or grades slipping, and he seems to get through a fair number of books as well.
Under those circumstances I don't think that it's my job to tell him how he should be spending his free time. If playing Wow is more fun for him than anything else at the moment, that's fine. Monitoring one's child's wellbeing is obviously the most important role of a parent. Deciding how they should spend their time (for a teenager at least) isn't.
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Is WOW addictive? Of course it is! Why else would it have 11 million players?
As someone who worked in the games industry for 11 years, I always dreamed of coming up with that game that would hook a few million players and make me a fortune. And that's exactly what Blizzard have done. Addictiveness is a positive in games, it's what keeps players playing, it's what makes the game "good".
The questions here are really "how addicted are some people?" and "how detrimental is that addiction?" We are all addicted to something, be it Eastenders, going the gym, a couple of pints and ruby on a Saturday or whatever. It's all just varying degrees of addiction.
It's only when that addiction starts to take over your life that it becomes an actual problem. Yes there are people who can fit in 20+ hours a week of gaming and it does them no harm, their life goes on as normal. But, as with everything, there are people who will let their addiction take over their lives - they will miss school / work to play, they will forego eating properly, they won't bathe and so on - they will esentially become your stereotypical addict.
Maybe these people need help. Maybe we should just leave them to it - they aren't hurting anyone, afterall. Who knows?
Oh, and my addiction? Liverpool F.C., but I can give them up anytime I want.... honest. I'll just watch one more game, then I'll stop. Just one more game to tide me over. Just one. Honest.
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From 103 "It's a feature of providing any absorbing activity that can be done without stopping. "
Exactly, excellent point.
Someone actually told me about a person they know whom is by current popular definition 'addicted' to the news....
How about journalists and psychiatrists who are addcited to find new 'addictions'?
It's all panic,part of what I rather loosely and flippantly term a 'yuppie dilemma'.
@97 BBC News has made documentaries regarding football hooligans in the past.
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Interesting how this blog topic has generated a lot more posts than any other (combined?)
Maybe its time the BBC rethought its treatment of gaming, and should give it more prominence in the future. A promotion to entertainment, rather than technology, maybe a dedicated gaming blog, and more reports on the mainstream news might be considered overdue?
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I was first introduced to MMORPG's in September 2003 when Star Wars Galaxies was first released in the UK. Being a longtime confessed Star Wars nut for the best part of 30+ years and partial to playing computer games (10yr old boy + Space Invaders = hours of zapping fun!) this seemed too perfect to be true. A computer game where I get to control my chosen character (I had a Wookiee) to do whatever I liked! Needless to say that combination also became a wee bit obsessive too! Like a previous poster has mentioned, it didn't effect my work as I never called in sick just to get online, but my free time was monopolised by online time.
In November 2005 I defected and came over to WoW (thanks to SOE for messing with SWG!) and have been playing ever since. After an initial period of this new quest based system of levelling your characters it grew on me and I've loved everything about it. However I've come to realise that everything in moderation makes it a far more enjoyable experience.
My fianceé is one of many WoW widows out there, but we have an arrangement that doesn't effect our time together, and I still manage to get some online time each week. I am in a high end raiding guild and I'm one of about 6 guild raiding mages. But we're not under any pressure to attend X amount of raids per week/month so I just sign up when I can, which is maybe 2 or 3 times a month.
The social aspect of the guild is great as it doesn't limit itself to just gametime. We've also got our own website and there have also been social events arranged where members local to each other meet up for drinks/BBQ etc.
WoW is a fantastic MMO and over 11million subscribers can't be wrong! But everything in moderation peeps!
Leeeeeeeeeeeroooooooyyyyyyyy!! ;op
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Is wow addictive? In my opinion no more so than any other game, or any other pastime for that matter - and far less harmful. I would rather feel the urge to log on to wow for a few hours than, say, feel the urge to go to the pub for four pints.
I am a 32yo bloke who thoroughly enjoys some good ole' gaming time. Not much, a couple of hours a night during the week and practically never at weekends. Not only that, but now that my circle of friend have all 'grown up' and moved all over the world, online games - and especially MMO's are a great medium for staying in touch. I 'see' and talk to my friends most nights, even if only for half an hour to say hello. I cant envisage how we would have maintained this level of contact without something like this.
That said, I do know how it feels - the subtle & sinister draw of a game you're really into. It becomes very important. I have to say i'm quite glad that the internet and online games werent around when I was at school. I can well imagine they are quite a distraction for some (and most certainly would have been for me).
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@100
yes my son probably would have had some sort of problem but to lose such a large part of his youth to this game seems sad, and I do not blame the game for him getting into drugs but if he had had a normal social life with real people not virtual friends then he would have been exposed to a much wider range of behaviours and may have made different choices in life, especially when it came to working as he would not have been tied to the pc and would have worked as most of his former friends did. He would have more friends now because he would not have lost touch with so many of the old friends and might have made some new friends instead of virtual friends.
I do not want WoW banned or burned at the stake I just think there need to be some safeguards in place to stop vulnerable people throwing their lives away for a period of years often.
I am glad that having breaks will now earn rewards but I think these breaks should be of a suitable length for the gamer to calm down get some rest or do some normal activity. I think there is a need for research into the nature of the addiction to these games because my son's reactions and that of other people I know of who have had problems with WoW have been so over the top when taken away from the game that it is more than grumpy or angry. He was violent and destructive when stopped from playing and have heard of many other cases where families have been amazed by the reactions of a normally pleasant natured individual when stopped from playing WoW.
I still think that a worryingly high number of young people get addicted to this game from anecdotal evidence that whenever WoW is mentioned amongst a group of people who enjoy gaming they always know someone who spent months or years lost to the real world playing WoW.
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I think this article is a little misleading.
You have interviewed one person about addicts in the game. How many people is he talking about.
100? 1000? 2000? 5000?
I would think it is the lowest of these. Given in Europe there is probably 2 million players (maybe more I have no clue as these numbers are not made public) but the number of addicts accounts for what worst 0.25% of the playing numbers and this is a huge over estimate I should think.
What is the number of people addicted to other hobbys? Probably about the same proportion.
Gamers are always painted as weird by the main stream media. Now doubt some of us are a little "different" from the "normal" people at the bbc. But wouldn't it be a dull world if we all conformed to that vision.
I am a WoW gamer.
An addict?
I dont think so. I manage to hold down a full time job as a Financail Controller at a multi billion pound company. I read at least 1 book a week. Continue to keep up to date with the technical things I need to know for my profession. I meet up with friends (many made through the MMO's I have played).
Most of the people in my guild have full time jobs, some are married, some have children, we have members from Norway, Finland, France, Spain, Egypt, Germany and all parts of the UK. Interacting with these people has taught me much over the years.
I just spend my time NOT watching TV. I would not even have a TV Licence if it wasnt required by law as the only TV I watch is on demands via my cable box. I watch no BBC channels at all. Is this the reason the bbc is determined to slam these games?
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I have an addiction - sometime i just get lost in a world of fantasy, i ignore my family and friends. I spend hours doing it without realising i've wasted so much time. And i do it at least 2-4 hours a day. My addiction is called "reading", yes i like to read books.
Now all the people saying - "why are you defending the game and taking it personally, you must be addicted" - Do you read? Do you have an addiction? Try and come up with a logical defence to the silly accusation with out it sounding personal? 11,000,000,000 people play (or have played) wow - so extreme cases are bound to happen. I wonder how many people have read something and then re-enacted it in real life, maybe we should ban reading?
As soon as people realise this is the next form or general entertainment the better as games are now out selling CD's and DVD's.
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Of all the things to get obsessed abouto n the internet (use your imagination)
mucking about pretending to be an elf isnt one that automatically comes into my mind
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Being a bit of a WoW-nut, i can see both sides to this argument.
I am a huge fan of the game, and- i openly admit- have dedicated a bit too much time to it in the past. Last year and the beginning of this year, it would not have been uncommon for me to dedicate perhaps 40+ hours per week to playing (though i no longer play as much as that now). No matter what you say, it does get addictive to a point, as others have said.
"I'll just finish this quest line", or "I'll just get to level 60, then i'll go to bed" i would innocently say. There was definitely a sense of achievement when you felled that stubborn enemy, or acquired that sought-after weapon.
Before you know it, it's the wee hours of the morning. It was only when you started to faint from lack of food and sleep that you realised just how long you had been playing, especially while on annual leave or at the weekends. So yes, the game is certain very engrossing and immersive.
However, it never interfered with my work life. I never "pulled a sickie", and still had time for friends outside the virtual world.
And what else would you normally be doing on a wet Tuesday evening? Watching TV? Drinking copiously in the pub? I fail to see how minding your own business playing a game is any worse of a vice than other things you could be doing.
Also, people do tend to forget that there is a very social side to the game. Where else could you be in a group of 5 people from 5 different parts of Europe, getting along like a house on fire aiming for a common goal. perhaps the Eurocrats in Brussels could do with a little of that spirit? In fact, because most of my guild members are Polish, i have even learned a few Polish words and phrases, and surely that must be a great thing educationally.
There is also a real sense of "community" in some of the guilds. People are willing to give up their own time and hard earned gold to help others, for no other reason than to be kind. I see no harm in that part of the human spirit shining through.
So, all in all, this really isn't the demonic spawn of a failing, craving society that people make it out to be. Immersive? Yes. addictive? It certainly can be. But let's be honest- it's not exactly crack cocaine and robbing old ladies in the street. So lets all take a step back and see the game for what it really is: people from around the world, different cultures, backgrounds and nationalities all having fun together.
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Is it any surprise that us gamers are a defensive bunch when we seemed to get blamed for every wrong in the world.
What we have to remember that journalists are out to make as much of a story as possible, even this blog is guilty of it.
First up look at that title 'Addicted' to WOW, that automatically has negative connotations for a lot of people. Those people will have decided before reading the blog that games are a bad thing and that this is going to prove their point because they are addictive.
I have re-read the article many times and have yet to see any facts in it.
Sections like " They were both from teachers who were deeply worried about the impact that online games were having on some of their teenage students. Each said that they'd seen students become addicted - and that had led to some dropping out of their studies."
How EXACTLY do these teachers know that WOW is to blame for the kids falling behind in their studies?
Then we have the psychiatrist Dr Richard Graham who appears to have little problem discussing what people are coming to him to discuss. What particularly caught my eye was
"And he pointed out that these were only the people who made it to his consultations - some others never turn up because they don't want to lose time that could be spent online playing the game."
Again if they didn't turn up HOW does he know that it's because they were too busy playing WOW??? Does he ring every single one, every single time?
Finally I just want to end on the last comment by the author of the blog himself:
"Millions of people are going to derive hours, days, even months of fun from Wrath of the Lich King. But for a few it will become a dangerously addictive world where they spend far too much of their time. And I don't think it is irresponsible to report that story."
What STORY it's a little soon for people to be addicted to an expansion that came out a midnight!
This is what's wrong with the BBC nowadays, everything seems to be conjecture and supposition. Nowhere have we been offered proof, just the tale that 2 yes a whole 2 teachers were a little concerned and a psychiatrist has some patients that are addicted to the game (notice no numbers once again!). What about the 100s of kids who forgo their studies to put all of their effort into becoming a footballer or a pop star, I have never seen any BBC articles about that.
This has done nothing but state the obvious - that a past-time can become addictive, if it were any other past-time it would not get a mention but games are big business now, so please blogger don't act like your doing a public service here, your using what is blatantly obvious to everyone in the world for a little self publicity. If you hadn't written it like you were on the side of the gamer but then uncovered some huge conspiracy I wouldn't have bother commenting but since you did I felt I had to point out the huge flaws in this article.
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I suppose people are scared of what they don't understand.
People generally from around 40 ish and under aren't scared of video games, over 40's ish are. But even that depends on the games, my 60+ parents LOVE Buzz, Singstar and Wii Sports for example.
Obviously the BBC's recent agenda seems to be about video game addiction, which like I've said, is addictive like anything else is/can be. It depends on the personality of the person playing. Games can be designed to make you think "Just one more..." but ultimately its the will power to say no thats the issue, not the game itself.
I don't however understand what the reason is for this addiction agenda. What is being suggested here? Is WoW the new Gateway drug? I know many find WoW very more-ish, but its hardly the cocaine of video gaming!
@89
Whose truth is that South Park episode though? I certainly know 2 people who that very thing happened to (gaining weight and losing health playing WoW), but as I have probably 200+ acquitances, that equates to less than 1% of everyone I know, saddled to the fact that they were already overweight and took 0 exercise.
For children they might find WoW more addictive (why anyone would find the incessent grind of WoW addictive is beyond me) but it depends on the child's age. Its designed for 12 and over, and any young teenager is ultimately under parental control and parental responsibility. Anyone younger playing and thats just irresponsible parenting.
A debate about content on the internet and video games is taking place right now in Westminster Hall. Its no co-incidence that the BBC decided to run this story about WoW, with this spin of addiction today of all days.
Whats the suggestion with this story BBC? Even more government control over what we can or can't do? Even more nanny state work for parents who are unable to be a parent after getting pregnant?
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@109
"normal social life"
"real people not virtual"
"different choices in life"
"new friends instead of virtual friends."
"normal activity"
I think we have the root of the problem as far as this article is concerned. Why do you view playing games as abnormal? Why can't WoW be considered a "normal" activity? Why can't the people you know online be considered "real" friends?
While I'm not going to make any comment on how you've handled the matter of your son, it seems that you- and indeed a lot of people- are less upset at someone having a harmful hobby as an unpopular one- and this attitude tends to push vulnerable people further away.
As an example, I personally prefer basketball to football- as there is no basketball on mainstream TV, nor does it see newspaper coverage, there isn't a team nearby and I'm the only person I know in real life interested in it, as a result all my coverage, all my discussion comes via the internet- I cannot go to the pub and watch there, and if I could, I'd have nobody to talk about it with.
How is this different? Do I have a basketball addiction? Am I abnormal? Would I be making "different choices in life", and have a "normal social life" if I liked a "normal activity" like football?
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Rory, you may have noticed there are a lot of intelligent well written replies on here, which are tearing your "2 teachers and a psychiatrist" apart.
The problem Rory, as you've made clear yourself, is that there seems to be a social stigma attached to video games by the 40+ ish age bracket, or those that think getting wasted in a night club and waking up with someone you don't know is more fun than using a game to socialise with your friends.
This blog really has been scraping so many barrels recently. Surely its time for the BBC Technology blog to actually have some technology journalists involved, not people who've been given the job because the BBC didn't have anything else for them to do at the time.
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MMORPGs can all be addictive, choosing WoW to pick on is silly.
I play LOTRO along with my husband most evenings and it is a very sociable environment, if i have no friends online i will log off and find something else to do.
I have met several of the friends i have made online in real life and my sister in law met her husband playing EQ2. The social aspect is the biggest draw for me and most of the people i play with and you get to play/talk with people from all over the world.
Most of the people i meet on the game are 25-40 years old and all work.
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I have owned a computer store since 1990 and have seen many young lads (it's nearly always a male thing) lose their teenage years to computer game addiction. I could usually spot them immediately they entered the store via the pale complexion, the vacant look and the complete lack of any social skills.
I've lost count of the number of worried parents who would contact me as a last resort , looking for inspiration to tempt their reclusive son away from games via some similar computer related route.
Nothing seems to work and generally most seemed to grow out of it by the time they reached 20. Unfortunately though I have seen a fair few slip into mental illness.
Although I still own the store I made every effort to keep my children away from computer games. Unfortunately one son has succomed to the temptation, and I am well aware of the typical behaviour; the lack of communication, the all night WoWC sessions online, the total lack of ambition, the aggressive behaviour when disturbed.
I just hope and prey he will be one of the lucky ones who grow out of it.
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I always think it's dangerous to talk about 'addictions' when we're dealing with things people do for amusement or entertainment. When someone refers to an addiction, I always conjure up an image of someone being so dependant on an activity that they cannot physically function without a daily 'fix'. Drug users, smokers and alcoholics have this problem, they cannot imagine getting through the day without pandering to their relevant addiction, because their body actually needs it to survive. Their is a big difference between consuming something that alters your body, and doing something you find entertaining that has no physical effects.
I understand that video gaming constantly can lead to health problems, but it is not the game itself that is causing health problems, it's the lack of exercise, good nutrition and so on that is doing the damage. This is quite the contrast with drug addicts, alcoholics and so forth who are regularly damaging their body because of their addiction.
It also disappoints me to see educated people claiming that WoW nearly cost them their GCSEs, A levels or degrees. Playing a game instead of doing your work is not a sign of addiction, it's a sign that you don't find your work interesting enough. Whilst I was at university I frequently found myself playing Football Manager instead of doing university work, I didn't do this because I was addicted, I did it because I didn't enjoy working over playing, and I knew I could get away with the bare minimum amount of work and still get a respectable 2:1. Yes I could probably have got a 1st had I worked harder, but I don't use games as an excuse, it was because I was too bone idle to work harder, games were just the way I used my time instead.
I would never see gaming as an addiction, I see it as a hobby, if someone decides to ignore their responsibilities for the sake of a hobby, it is always going to be dangerous, regardless of the hobby. In such cases it is a problem of the individual, not the hobby itself. Would you class reading a book as a dangerous activity? We often talk about something being a 'page-turner'. This actually means that the book is so good you can't put it down until you know what happens next. No one is going to come on and say reading is dangerous, and can be addictive, yet that is essentially what all authors aspire to, making their book so good you don't want to put it down. We don't consider this an addiction because reading as perceived as a good activity and can be educational. The only reason people take issue with gaming is because they see it as a fruitless exercise, but that is genrally the case with any hobby. It isn't fruitless to the individual enjoying it, because it is a way to keep that individual entertained and relaxed. If we constantly spent our time trying to do challenging and 'useful' activities we'd be exhausted by the time we got through school.
As a final sign off, a hobby is not an addiction, it is a form of entertainment. If a person gets so caught up in that form of entertainment that they can't see when to stop, or when they need to deal with other responsibilities, it is a problem with their attitude and upbringing, not the fault of the hobby itself.
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MMORPG's (and not just WoW) can be very enjoyable, and can extend to a social experience with friends. Moreover, they can legitamitely be excused as time spent gaming rather than other diversionary activity, eg. watching the quite frankly boring television on offer to most of us.
The point the author has not pointed out is the dedication which the game requires. Before you can really enjoy the game, WoW especially requires extremely long hours of monotonous 'grinding' out xp. In order to compete on an even footing players have to spend a quite frankly ludicrous amount of time gathering resources and levelling skills and simlpy travelling from one zone to another. Guild runs often involve hours of dedicated game time which peer pressure make inescapable.
In short this kind of game construct is designed to hook people into the game and demand that they play for minimum amounts of time, often extending into double figures of hours, weeks, months, years etc. This is because they require minimum returns on your monthly subscriptions.
As someone who is currently trying to complete a Masters degree, games such as WoW can be a terrible distraction from study. Quite frankly I feel I would of failed me GCSE's and A-Levels if MMORPG's where around when I was taking them!
Having said that, I recently switched from WoW to Warhammer and whilst not as rich as wow the game is much easier to dip in and out of. So far, I'm managing to balance work, study and MMO!
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I'm a 44 year old man who has been playing WoW for about 3.5 years. I stood in line with 100 other enthusiasts for two hours before midnight last night to get my copy of WotLK. Obviously, I'm a big fan of the game.
I have serious problems about articles of this nature for a couple reasons. First of all, the uncited "study" claiming 10-15% of WoW players become "addicted". Whose study was this? What are their credentials? What is their definition of "addiction". That's just poor journalism.
Second, the anecdotal observations of teachers and psychologists do not substantiate that there is a problem. In fact, it is a logical fallacy called an appeal to inappropriate authority. Again, poor journalism.
Finally, if you get any group of people of sufficient size engaging in any sort of behavior - WoW, driving, writing blogs for the BBC - you are certain to find some subset of that group whose actions are unhealthy in some way.
I can't legitimately denigrate the entire BBC because of this Mr Cellan-Jones' poor journalism, just as I can't denigrate driving motor vehicles because some people *DO* drink and drive. Likewise, Mr Cellan-Jones cannot fairly assert there is anything "responsible" about citing anonymous studies and collecting anecdotal "evidence" to suggest that WoW (or computer games in general) is any more harmful than any other passtime.
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It's very interesting and there's a lot to be said for both sides
I think one thing I picked up on was mentioning that parents don't understand it and feel distant from their kids (or something along hose lines). but HONESTLY how many parents ACTIVELY pay attention to what their kids are playing and try to take part. There's been a lot in the news recently about the Byron report, and enforcing stricter age limits on games, and clearly this has come about partly because parents don't pay attention to what games they are even buying for their kids, they don't look at what the game contains.
in my personal example, i have been playing games since about age 8, and am now 24, and in those 16 years i can't think of more than half a dozen occasions where my parents have paid any attention to either the types of games I'm playing or the amount of time I spend playing them, except maybe for the odd comment along the lines of 'you spend too muh time playing games', but not actually doing anything about it, and my parents are by no means negligent parents, they have raised me well but just seem to have turned a blind eye as far as gaming is concerned
another thing is the issue of people spending time playing the game and not spending time with real life friends. But what if some of these players are kids that don't make friends easily, who are maybe left out at school and don't have many real life friends - they can come online and play world of warcraft and meet people with similar interests and chat while they play
as far as studying goes, i think that could be a problem, i know i have been guilty myself of playing video games (not just WoW but all sorts) when i should be studying. however, this is an area where parents should be stepping in. if you make the decision to have children you should be committed to raising them properly, and if you can't take a little time out of our day to check up on them, make sure they are getting their homework done before playing games for example, then i question your decision to have kids in the first place.
another issue is that maybe they choose games over school work, because schools aren't making learning fun enough. i know its never going to be as much fun as flashing lights and explosions etc, but teachers need to do something to grab kids attention and imagination
it would be interesting to see exactly how many warcaft players actually DO meet the criteria for addiction, but i would imagine that this report is somewhat biased and it is not as bad as they make out, while there may be some worrying cases, i wouldn't be too sure that it was a majority. i play warcraft myself some times, as do a handful of my friends and none of us is addicted
another point i'd like to make is that surely playing warcraft or any other video games, is surely more constructive than for example just watching tv or dvds, as at least it keeps the mind active in some way, it might not be better than for example taking part in sports, but not everyone enjoys sport, i for example have always been terrible at most sports, i think partly due to poor depth perception, and while i now enjoy a friendly kickabout with friends some times, i HATED the sort of organised sport we were forced to do at school
also, you can't deny that spending time on warcraft is MUCH better use of kids time that sitting on street corners or in bus shelters drinking alcopops, smoking, hassling old folks, stealing cars and stabbing and shooting each other, which if the media is to be believed is what most of them are doing these days
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And I'd also like to add that during the first 2.5 years I was playing WoW I was also pursuing my BS in Business Administration with an emphasis in Information Systems and even playing daily for extended periods while at university, I still managed to graduate magna cum laude.
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I would just like to say that i am 16 comming on 17 and i play WoW at the very end bosses of the previous expansion. I have all epic gear. However, I also just did my gcse's and got 4 A* 4 A and 2 B. I am staying on in 6th form to do 3sciences and maths. I got these results by stopping myself playing wow. Now, i am back on however i dont even spend 2 hours a day on it. I think it is very unfair to put people into a sterotypical "WoW player" group. In my year around 15 other people play it and they also got good grades. One more thing, we are too young to go to the pub so instead we spend most of our evening doing stuff together in the real world, not azeroth.
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I'm what would be called a social gamer of WOW. I've been playing now for over 18 months, and I really enjoy the game.
For me it plays an important part of my live, partly because when I was at school I was bullied so much I now suffer from PTSD. I have a real problem making friends in the real world, and WOW helps me a lot.
My husband also plays WOW, and frequently of an evening we will be sitting three feet away from each other, chatting online to each other, and thoroughly enjoying it.
I'm in a social guild (which I helped create). There are some real friends online, who know about my issues and are willing to give me the space I need, and there are others who accept me as my online character, and are happy at that. I can't say any of that is true in the real world. I also find that I can interact with people I know in the real world better in their online persona than I can in real life.
Yes, people can get addicted, and in rare cases this can have fatal consequences, but it can also be a force of good in the world. I personally know of a number of other people who have issues dealing with the real world (some people with mild autism and others with aspergers) who can find more understanding from people online that from people in the real world.
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Also 10 to 15 % of people addicted means that approximately 1.43 million people in the world are addicted. Firstly, who did this "research". Did it include the full 11 million players or just a small sample of around 100. secondly, can you define addiced? What is the differance between someone watching the football every night for 3 hours and someone playing wow every night for 3 hours
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I would disagree with those who say that the confidence you build playing one of these games (in my case EQII, Lvl 80 Fury) can't be carried over into rl. Since becoming the joint leader of a guild, I have helped organise what are basically training sessions for new members, lower level raids for those whose toons are still in the early stages, handled some minor disciplinary problems, and generally found myself taking on the kind of responsibilities I usually shun in rl. And guess what? Now I am taking my in-game attitude to responsibility into rl, and its paid off really well! But if I hadn't had my online experiences, I would never have had the confidence to do the same in rl.
I think I have also become more sociable off-line too, thanks to the large and varied crowd of in-game friends I have now. Since speaking about my gaming at work, I've discovered a whole new crowd of colleagues here who also game, and we frequently chat at work or online. So yes, I think I can say EQII has improved my life!
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In a medical sense, addiction is the dependance of a certain substance to function normally. People who have a lot of caffeine don't get a boost in the mornings, they need their caffeine to get back to normal running.
An addictive substance is something that is addictive to everyone, not just a very small minority of people who have obsessive personalities who will most likely get obsessed with anything they enjoy doing. I wish we would stop talking about hobbies and activities as being dangerous and addictive, and start looking at how we cope with people who have addictive and compulsive personalities, as this is where the problem is. If you target any activity, people with compulsive and obsessive behaviour will no doubt find some other activity that then becomes a so-called 'addiction', because they don't want to do anything else.
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Hi peej2k6(comment 117)
You may have noticed that some way back I also commented on the quality of debate on this post - from both sides of the argument.
Sorry you're not enjoying this blog - though I notice you spend a lot of time here and often contribute to the discussion.
I see my job as covering technology for a general audience - not just talking to an in-crowd who are already very informed about the subject.
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What I find funny is the list of people posting here who claim that they aren't addicted even though they play for 4 hours a night. Now no matter what you are doing..that's an addiction. If you were gambling for 4 hours or playing golf for 4 hours a day every day then you would be an addict. WOW is no different.
As an ex WOW addict, the fact is there are at least 10-15% of players that are addicted. If you don't believe me, try and join a high end raiding guild. They usually insist for you to raid at least 4 times a week and on top of that you have to spend the other nights collecting gear or money to support your raiding nights. Anyone in a guild like that is addicted..they might not believe it..but they are. There are a lot of guilds like this, and i mean a lot.
The question is why is WOW different from other games...IMO the answer is simple. WOW runs in realtime which means the WOW world keeps going even when you are not playing. So when you aren't playing, you are wondering what you would be doing/could be doing/should be doing, so even when you aren't playing you are thinking about playing. This means you login at every opportunity and the concept of missing a night's raid to be with family/friends in the real world just doesn't cross your mind. "What if the item I want drops or the boss we've been trying to kill suddenly drops..i can't miss that"....another night down the drain.
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There have been a lot of interesting points made on this blog.
I have three sons (all treated much the same) yet only one has become addicted to wow. Blaming the parents period is not quite fair.
My loose definition of addiction would be doing something on a regular basis that is detrimental to your own well being whether you are aware of it or not. It might be every hour, day, week etc.
Yes, I would prefer my son to be addicted to wow rather than alcohol or drugs but it does not stop me being concerned about him.
Reading this blog I think a lot of people are just kidding themselves that they are not addicted, when in truth they are.
I like the story about dieters who had to record for a week what they had eaten. Most of them did not loose any weight.
They were then given the amounts they recorded and guess what? They all lost weight.
Maybe they were just forgetful!
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I curse the day this wretched game was bought for my son two years ago. All his spare time is filled with playing it. He misses family meals, never has time to discuss any aspects of his school work and rushes homework so that he can continue to play WOW. He insists on playing until the early hours of the morning and school holidays consist of nothing but playing WOW on the PC. It is always a chore to get him to give up for an hour for a dentist or optician appointment.
Yes, I should discontinue paying his subscription, but I cannot bear to think of the aggressive and violent way he will react to this action. The real life battle goes on.....
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For me, the test of whether it's an addiction or not should be to take it away, and see how that person reacts.
The problem is that you have a teenager has two aspects to their life, much like an adult, the work and the recreational. What an adult gains from work is a healthy social life (chances are you enjoy your work) and money. Now look at the teenager's potential situation: has few or no friends. Has subjects that seem to have no use in the real world (the education system has failed in this regard by not stimulating interest through the use of real-world example - maths could so easily get more people on board if they spent more time on economics). Now, where do they go? WoW, or any other game. Instant gratification. The attributes needed to succeed in game are the flipside of what you do need in life. You do not need a) good social skills b) money c) intelligence d) any sort of background e) a smart appearance or way of carrying yourself. These problems dissassipate. And unlike the schooling, which is short-sighted in that it often doesn't explain the relevance of the subject, gaming provides instant gratification. There are things that require you to work towards XP, but require little skill - again, an easy way to get people on board. Feel like you've achieved something, when in reality you have done little work at all. It's a hollow alternative to academic studies.
My own situation is this: I'm 18, performed alright in my GCSEs (3 As, 6 Bs, 1 C, 2 Ds) but have bucked up since and now have three As and one B at AS level (including one subject were I scored 300/300), and am doing an extra exam for one subject. I was addicted to the PS2 back in the day. Now I'm addicted to the PC, but it's alright, because I can combine it with my studies. Several of my friends who didn't go sxith form now play either WoW or XBOX 360 (one regularly plays till 6 in the morning)...they're all normal guys. As long as you combine it with your normal life it's no worse than TV. The difference is that the possibilities in game are limitless, and can be individualised for maximum pleasure. This is what ruins it.
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To Bossuk,
Just because someone does something for 4 hours a night does not make it an addiction. Most people work 9-5 jobs, are they addicted to work because they spend so much time there? I think not.
As I've already tried to get across, we should stop using the term 'addiction' when talking about hobbies, it is not an addiction to spend a lot of time doing something. It is an addiction when you cannot physically function without it. People aren't suddenly going to become ill because they cannot play Warcraft.
You have every right to think that someone else's hobby is a waste of time, I certainly think that about a lot of things. I enjoy football, chess, gaming, watching films; I've spent time volunteering, I've spent time at University as an undergraduate and a post-graduate. I imagine all of these activities take up a large amount of time, that's what people are supposed to do, fill up their day with things they enjoy.
Yes, people need to understand that they have responsibilities and learn to focus on those first, before entertaining themselves. This is a problem with how they are brought up and the discipline their parents instill in them, spending time doing something you enjoy is not an addiction and we should stop calling it such.
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To McGalpharm ,
I'm sorry but are you comparing having to go to work everyday to a game. Not really much of a comparison is it. Most people don't go to work because they are addicted, they go so they can pay the bills.
And most serious wow players are addicted when they can't go without one of their raid without thinking about what they are missing out on. That fits your lack of functioning quite well. Take you away from your raid night and you will spend a large part of your evening thinking about what you are not doing, just as a smoker wants a cigarette and a gambler wants his pack of cards when they don't have them.
If you can do all of the things on your list regularly then it is physically impossible that you are also playing every night for 4 hours so you probably don't fall into the list of addictees(unless you play till 3 in the morning every night..in which case you are definetly addicted).
I've been there, seen it, done it, led a guild, led raids, played till the early hours, so i reckon i know addicts when i meet them..and in wow you meet them every day.
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So are you also saying that people who go to work don't spend any time thinking about how they'd spend their day if they didn't have to work? There is a very big difference between spending time thinking about what you would like to be doing, and physically needing a cigarette because your body will not function properly without it.
I wasn't actually comparing gaming to working, I was actually ridiculing the statement that spending 4 hours a day doing something is an addiction. You are addicted to something when you cannot function without it, you might well get obsessed with a game, but I very much doubt you can get addicted to it unless you are of a certain mental state in which I believe you would get addicted to pretty much anything you enjoyed doing.
There have probably been occasions when I have spent more than 4 hours in a day devoted to any of my hobbies, it does not constitute an addiction. If it does, I'm addicted to a lot of things.
I agree that there can be problems when an individual becomes obsessed with something, if they can't be bothered to deal with any of their chores or go to work. But in most cases I'd argue that it's because people have no respect for the other responsibilities they have, as opposed to being 'addicted' to a game. My brother didn't fail his degree because of gaming, he never touches online games, he failed because he couldn't be bothered putting the work in. I passed all my courses by putting the work in when required, even though there were plenty of things I'd much rather be doing, it's because I respected the value of my qualifications, not because I found it enjoyable. This is what parents should be instilling in their children.
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I play Lineage 2 before that Asherons call both are MMORPG, some days I play 2 hours others not at all and then dependent on whos about in world spend the whole weekend playing. Before that helped run a UK based Game service for BT that was another 5 years.
The people i have got to know and the understanding of the world i live in far outways a night infront of the TV.
But then again it could be said that followers of football are just as mindless in falling into addiction of the game.
This is just a lot of free advertising at the expence of the beeb licence payers.
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When I first started playing WOW I had just finishing a job and thus had plenty of free time to get online. Add to this that it was the british winter (December-March) and well it was either TV or pc. Many of my friends had traveled back home for christmass. Needless to say I leveled up to 70 in no time at all, (Which may be the reason I no longer play).
The reson however WOW is so playable is that is seemingly endless for most gamers since the endless amount of hours requiered to reach high end level raiding or pvp alternative. Also the guilding environment create a social group all aiming towards achieving a goal.
WOW however is not as simple as many may think. It actually involves time to prepare your character to reach certain abilities which will help you overcome ceratin aspects of the world. You need to dedicate time to assist others to be able to help you achieve objectives. Even if you are a pvp player in the WOW environment you still need to invest time into enhancing your character through completing quests, missions etc
I admit to having played over a month period purely pvp with my character, of at least 6 hours a day up to 12, just to earn honor to deck my character out with the best pvp gear. Obviously I must have been addicted. And at the end of all this honor farming I did feel some achievement.
Thankfully, my guild disolved and I just started a new job and as such did not have the time to dedicate to this game so just cancelled my subscription (After saying a few goodbyes to several memer sof the guild).
However, the main reasons behind the success of WOW is that it appeals to so many people on so many levels. Just that those playing the game must play in moderation and realise there is a world outside of WOW.
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Maybe the UK govt should think about forcing Blizzard Entertainment to put a monthly limit on the amount of hours gamers can play, say 250 (which would be more than 8 hours a day every day of the month - surely enough for anyone who's not dangerously addicted). This has already been applied in South Korea after a gamer died after 50 hours gaming with few breaks - see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4137782.stm.
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Before I reply and expand to a few other posts, I would like to clarify something I said in my initial comment (@14. At 12:21pm on 13 Nov).
I said that if it were not for MMORPGs, I could have in theory scored higher in my A-levels. What must be clarified is that, in practice, I am dead certain that if it were not for MMORPGs, I would have actually scored far worse, and indeed may not be around to this day. School was terrible and damaged my mental health greatly, yet MMORPGs helped me to survive it, make friends, meet my first two partners, and prepared me for an active and productive life away at university.
Like a lot of things in life, I had to choose the lesser of two evils.
@55. At 1:44pm on 13 Nov 2008, Plimft wrote:
"Of course I'm not saying teenagers should shun games for the more traditional adolescent pursuits of drinking and sexual discovery, but maybe they should temper their virtual discoveries with real ones... learn real skills, even if they're things that maybe have no real application career wise... take up Karate, flower arranging, ballroom dancing, Salsa, the piano, boxing, gymnastics. Self esteem can be built in a million ways, but confidence you build in a computer game can never be taken elsewhere other than the game."
The activities that Plimft suggests are physically active, extroverted activities, which very much misses the point! I shall return to why this difference is important later, but suffice to say, the options they believe as the only way to gain 'real' confidence are clearly inappropriate.
To give a personal example, the online friendships I formed playing MMOs gave me the confidence and self-assurance to then form amazingly close bonds of friendship with people when I went away to university. It was ironically these friendships, granted through skills learnt thanks to MMOs, which resulted in a lack of time to play MMOs - when you address the underlying environmental issues, MMOs become less of a problem.
There is a lot of "real-world", practical skills that can be acquired through the game itself, but one should also take into account those which can be acquired through the wider community around the game. many players get involved in organising physical meets, and tell other players how they went about this. My experience through this resulted in my successful organising of many an event for student societies.
@82. At 2:29pm on 13 Nov 2008, YimLord wrote:
"...the problem is not with videogames. It is with a socuiety in which an increasingly large number of young people feel isolated, unfulfiled and unable to improve their circumstances. While this remains the case, more and more people will fall into additions of all kinds, and it is this, not videogames that should attract the attention of our government, media and education system."
Yimlord here really has got it spot on. Although I am sure there are some who are truly addicted through no fault of environment or circumstance, the vast majority of people with any addition have it because of these. The addiction is often a symptom of greater underlying issues, and I hope Dr Graham understands this and also looks to address anything he can find there.
Finally...
@87. At 2:36pm on 13 Nov 2008, yuppiedilemma wrote:
"Book worms from years ago...those teens who spent their whole life reading, trainspotters...avid chess players...same thing as these WoW addicts really."
yuppiedilemma has hit upon the real reason why these stories keep coming to light. The story isn't addiction, which is commonplace and seen regularly with alcohol, gambling, drugs, smoking, and violence, but rather the issue is the effected demographic. MMORPG 'addicts' are likely to be more introverted and bright (simply because of the access barrier), the sort of people who used to take up those very hobbies yuppiedilemma lists. In many respects, MMOs have freed them, and offered a greater range of options for their spare time.
I do, however, think that a single aspect of MMORPGs is extremely dangerous, and at the heart of people's self-neglect whilst playing... The lack of a pause button!
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I just wish to build on number 46's post.
The people who are considered "creeps", "weirdos", etc. and left out/not allowed into social groups may play MMOs because not being in a social group leaves them little to do, at least socially. Sure there may be other people like them, but they also do the same and the topics they discuss are the games themselves and therefore to be in that social group the individual has to play the game.
I say this from experience, as I didn't fit into any social groups apart from the "gaming" group, which compelled me to play the game (which I won't mention) more. Sure I found individual activities to do such as running and swimming, but it was a lot easier to do lots of gaming than physical activities, not that it's really possible to do, say 5 hours of any of them without lots of training and skill.
People may also say "you could do something like play a musical instrument". The problem is not everybody is skilled enough to do such hobbies. Gaming can require little skill, so therefore is easier to take up. That's not say gaming can't be challenging, as many games have both very easy mindless tasks, such as grinding, but also more difficult tasks that require thought, such as puzzles, often in the same game.
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While the arguement people play games to much is valid, the reasoning is totally obsered.
People often point the finger of blame at the game designers, saying "My child is addicted, it is your fault". This is, in my opinon, pathetic parenting. If I suspected my child was playing a game to much I would stop them, I would take the computer, uninstall the game and give it back, maybe even deny them internet access. I remember reading an artical a little while back of a parent who said "I tried to take the computer off my child but he was kicking and screaming so much i gave it back". Ridiculous! What kind of a parent are you if when your child becomes upset, simply because they want something, you then cave in and give it to them?
Another thing is parents adults focus to much on a childs education, saying things like "my child plays to many games, he isnt doing so well in school". What about there physical health? sitting at a computer for hours a day is not good for a growing child. What about there social skills? if they just stay inside all day they will not know how to interact with people. While i have heard people saying "oh but i talk to people in game" it is extreamly different to talking to someone in real life, and i know this from experiance.
I am 19 and at university, and i play world of warcraft, and yet I have a good network of friends, I am doing very well with my studies and I am in reasonable health. I started playing WoW when i was about 16 when i started sixth form, and yes i will admit, when i started i played it far to much, but it soon subsided when the initial excitement of the game subsided, and also when my parents mentioned to me i was playing it to much. I listened to them.
People reading that i listened to my parents may say "but my child doesnt", i would say "so what"? You are the parent, it is YOUR responsibility to care and look out for your child. I dont care how much your child kicks and screams, i dont care how it may upset you seeing it, at the end of the day you know best, not your child, so you HAVE to put your foot down.
People are far to keen to brand computer games as "bad" as people can wind up playing a lot, but to be honest, i think this is the same for most things, to much of one thing is bad. There are people who i see down at my universitys gym, who are there 24/7. They are on my course and yet i rarely see them in lectures. I know people who will sleep for 16hrs a day, i would say that is bad for you to. You can do to much of anything.
I wish people would just STOP blaming the game and the designers, blame the parents/the individual, and help them, pointing fingers does nothing.
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The question is why people aren't using the allure of WoW to help them realise what drives the teenagers.
WoW creates a system of task-reward.
-You are given a large vision of what you are looking to accomplish. Your guild or raid leader expresses this vision to you so you're excited about it (Who wants to do the same thing over and over again [wiping] until you get it perfect?).
- Each person has a role based on their talents. Every role is seen as important, though some more important than others.
-Individual tasks are distributed to people. Responsibilities are clearly defined. You know when you fail and when you improve.
-Progress is praised, but more is expected.
-Encouragement is given to complete the task and improve individual talents. When spirits are low, successful guild/raid leaders inspire.
In the end, the reward is really minimal, but important to them.
Oftentimes this idea of teamwork, having to rely on others to accomplish things, is overlooked.
There are few leisure activities, outside of physical pursuits, where groups of people work together to accomplish a set of incremental goals.
As to the comment about autistic people playing WoW. There are definately people you will meet in WoW where you know they are the anti-social type in real life, but WoW allows them to express themselves in a social setting without fear of embarassment. This is not everyone though. It is not even a large part of the population.
I have a large network of real life friends (50-100 students in a group I participate with), but it is much easier to get my guild together in WoW than it is for me to consistently get a group of friends together because of everyones' busy schedules. A lot of the reason for structuring your life around raids comes from commitment to the group of people you are working with. I still often miss raids for real life events though.
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In reference to the people who do not eat, sleep, bathe, or take care of bodily functions while playing, that is some sort of sickness of the mind.
Raid's generally have time built into them to take care of the pressing situations in life. Our guild even has people disappear for a time to put their children into bed or deal with their misbehaving child. They are like 'commercial breaks' in the gameplay. No one likes to interrupt their TV show during the time action is happening, they wait until the commercials.
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Attention Gamers!
Well now, here we are, wherever that is...?
Blue or Red pill...?
There was once a rabbit hole...
Followers of Matrix Sciences I decided to make an offer.
These make believe interludes into imagination are, ok, I guess...
I will ask just one thing, are you ready? Do you think you are qualified?
Have you used anything others do not believe in?
I have been brought back once more to see if any others are out there in cyberland...
You see there are qualifications and tests. Many have tried, few survived, and only a very few of those decided they wanted to continue.
I have known many who designed the games being played. Several never got their games out, too dangerous the regulators said...
Of the many, only two have ever made it. One of those became internationally famous...
Has anyone experienced real virtual reality? Hmmm?
What if I were to tell you that you don't even need machines of any kind to experience it?
Would it be of interest if an offer was made to make a game real...?
What would you do? How would you act? In what way could you win?
There is such a game as few have ever attempted to play. Problem is, it is real!
If you have what it takes to qualify, then survive, you will be rewarded beyond your imagination...a pitiful concept, imagination. Very limited, perverse, and dogmatic...
If you accept this challenge, you will be tested. Physically, mentally, and spiritually! It is most common to pass the physical...however, almost all fail the mental. There are several of the so called great ones who wander the roads, babbling to themselves...A test deturmines if you are mentally strong enough and tests without harm.
The spiritual test allows only one failure which you might not survive. It's kind of like being uncreated, so to speak...
The strength of your soul/life is found in the other two tests and gives a good indication of ones worthiness to continue.
Even so, you will be trained in the Art of Psychic/spiritual Warfare, basic training. It is then up to you to improvise, adapt, and overcome.
Think of yourself as becoming a novice avenging angel...?
So if the psychology, psychiatry, and rules don't seem to quite make it anymore, you might be right!
This is my offer, the same as has been made through out time.
Guess
What ?
Your move.
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Played for two years I not unlike many others have done the "ooh look its 6am in the morning" thing whilst playing time and time again. A lot of the trauma actually caused by this game and other online games like is the actual length it takes to complete an instance the first installment of WOW had 3hr instances for 6 man parties this got totally overhauled in Burning Crusade where Blizzard actually took note of its gamers and created 1hr instances this took a lot of the "addictive" issues from the game. However Blizzard also created 6hr raid instances at the same time and planned for more in Lich King. Thank fully I no longer play as I realised just how mentally and physically ill the game was making me. If I ever play an online game again there would have to be a huge difference in game play.
Many of these online games are made in Korea and have the korean masochistic endurance attitude thread through them.
Also many reports on addiction always do no report the amount of money gold farmers in the game are making from the game, I mention this as the relevance is the top players on certain servers are being contracted to "farm" for gold and items for real life money... its not all play some can actually end up working 12hrs a day...
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How come no one is ever "addicted" to TV?
People spend just as much time watching it as they do playing Video games...kids are just as likely to have spent the night sitting up watching TV as they are playing WoW.
Yet no one really bothers to talk about that.
Perhaps it is simply the midset that what you don't understand makes you fearful and thus you start using emotive language, such as addiction.
Whereas TV we are all accustomed to, and when a child watches too much TV or doesn't get enough sleep because they are watching too much TV, it is something we understand and we just call it what it is...bad parenting.
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"#140
Maybe the UK govt should think about forcing Blizzard Entertainment to put a monthly limit on the amount of hours gamers can play, say 250 (which would be more than 8 hours a day every day of the month - surely enough for anyone who's not dangerously addicted). This has already been applied in South Korea after a gamer died after 50 hours gaming with few breaks - see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4137782.stm."
Come on there is already a parenting system there where u can regulate how much someone plays If your bringing in a limit for gaming hours there is no reason a limit should not be brought in for TV.
I would love to hear from the author of this topic in the comments and see what he thinks about the comments from all these people.
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i understand the factors in which people are talking... ie it is or is not addictive. but to say that it is equal to watching tv is rubbish!
when watching the tv there is a vast amount of channels to watch, not all playing the 100th re run of eastenders!! also... anyone saying its safer than letting your children out needs to think seriously about what effect that has. having grown up, as a teenager i spent most my time hanging around on the streets and have never overdosed or joined a gang as stated in past comments. surely these are social problems to be resolved than to hide from!!?? as to the issue of comparing it to drugs... drugs are illegal (or at least age restricted) therefore can we not blame the individual for those issues?? obviously not, so therefore if you have a potentialy addictive thing (in this instance a game) should nothing be done to restrict or to monitor.
in conclusion... if the game does have a monitoring system in place then parents need to take charge of their childrens
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@132 How is blaming the parents not fair?
You have stated yourself that you are concerned. Who bought the game did he buy it himself or did you buy it for him. Who pays for the subscription or the internet.
Before the game was purchased (I'm sure you knew it was going to be bought before hand) did you read up on the internet on the various aspects including this perceived addiction possibility?
Secondly if he is spending too much time on the game with him living under your roof, you have the responsibility to curtail it by whatever means. Either by using the built in controls, cancelling the subscription or disconnecting his internet. to name but a few.
Which leads me to:
@133
"I curse the day this wretched game was bought for my son two years ago."
Your curse the day the game was bought for him?? Did you educate yourself before buying this game for him to enable you to watch for the early signs for him slipping into such a mentality?
"All his spare time is filled with playing it. He misses family meals, never has time to discuss any aspects of his school work and rushes homework so that he can continue to play WOW". Where is the discipline? Its your house, he should play by your rules. Again have you a clue at all as to how to use the control features? Ever thought of disconnecting the internet after a certain time and locking the modem somewhere he can't get at it? Make him earn the right to play it!
"It is always a chore to get him to give up for an hour for a dentist or optician appointment.
Yes, I should discontinue paying his subscription, but I cannot bear to think of the aggressive and violent way he will react to this action. The real life battle goes on....."
I'll be really blunt here and say that you sound like a walkover. Yes discontinue his subscription. Saying its a chore to get him to do something? Lord almighty because nobody ever said that parenting was easy. Its damn hardwork you get out what you put in. Like I say your child lives under your roof. Its parents like you who are afraid to discipline their children properly that have society the way it is today.
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I'm a 28 year old professional, with a fiance and a 9 year old son.
I've played World of Warcraft for over 4 years now (With about a 12 month gap in the middle).
In that time I've met hundreds of other players, if not thousands, and very few of them should come under the category of 'addicted'. Several of them definitely should, but nowhere near the 10%-15% suggested.
The main culprits for being addicted are the younger players (aged 17 and below), they seem to spend more time playing than others, probably due to the lack of social / family commitments.
For example the Guild, which I help to administer, has around 300 members. And our main focus is social activities.
Out of those 300, I'd say 1 or 2 of them do play too much. Online no matter what time of day, or which day of the week.
And again, they're the younger members.
Blizzard built parental controls into the core of the game, but VERY few people use them.
Children will do what children do.
If I left my son to watch cartoons, eat chocolate and drink fizzy pop, he'd do it all day everyday.
He get's to do that sometimes, but not all the time. Gaming is no different. Parental responsibility is key.
PARENTS;
Either, use the parental controls (they're built into most games these days). Or, old fashioned but it still works, just tell your kids 'NO'.
The average person I've met in WoW is also employed, usually has a partner, has more than the average level of education, and is more than capable of understanding the complexities of a game as easy to play but difficult to master as this one.
The other aspect is the "What should they be doing instead" question:
I usually spend a few hours, on most nights, playing the game, so that would average around 10-14 hours per week.
I spend that time chatting to, and grouping with freinds, some of whom I've met in real life, and consider real-world freinds.
If I was to watch the same amount of TV, I'd only just be able to manage to watch the Uk's 3 main soap operas?
If I was to spend the same amount of time in the pub, is that better?
If I was to spend that amount of time reading (which I also do), am I 'addicted' to it?
Listening to music?
Watching Football?
Excercising?
I also spend 40 hours per week at work, and I can swear that I'm not addicted to that!
Everything is fine, in moderation.
And, given that even my TV licence costs more than the £9 per month subscription, It's a bargain considering how much other forms of entertainment cost.
Yes, 'some' people get addicted.
If they weren't addicted to WoW, they'd be addicted to something else though. It's a problem with the individual not the thign they're addicted to.
People who don't play / like computer games can't understand why we'd want to do the same things, over and over again, for several hours per week, for years on end?
I guess it's because alot of us are married, and/or have kids, and are happy with that sort of life.
I'm not just defending WoW, the same applies to all forms of entertainment, but computer games are being a particularly bad rap at the moment.
In fact... I've just spent 20 minutes typing on this blog... Maybe I'm becoming addicted to blogging.
Smyth - Munqui Tribe - DarkSpear(EU)
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A former classmate and a friend of a friend first his job to WoW, constantly phoning in sick so he could play it and had to have his meals brought to him at his computer by his wife as he was constantly raiding to get his epic gear.
His wife attempted to engage with him more by signing up for the game herself, even though she had no interest in it, but that didn't really work out.
When she eventually demanded that he spent more time with her and their two young children and less with the game he became violent towards her.
Thus ended their marriage.
On the happy side, he managed did manage to get his complete epic set eventually.
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Easiest solution? I'm assuming the characters will have some kind of intelligence quotiant? When registering for the game, ask the player for his age and level of education and for boosts in intelligence, have them sit some rudimentary exams. They don't have to be anything particularly overwhelming, but if the quest for on-line gaming is to offer a realistic character in fantastical surroundings then it should reflect the person playing. Besides which, if it is an addiction, you would assume they would do anything to ensure its continuation. You could even incorporate Wii Fit style health checks.
In fairness though, absolutely anyone can become psychologically addicted to any activity, all it takes is the right person and the right set of circumstances. Rock 'n' Roll was destined to destroy the younger generation and subsequently anything of interest has been tipped to do the same.
All will be well.
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ok i made a post a while back and after reading a lot of these new posts i am amased at the offers in views displayed
as for new players starting out wow if your doing research i would reccomend this game above others i mean it does offer a lot of social aspects
i can agree with one of the earlier posts from a wow player about wow feeling a lot safer than irl(thats in real life) for all none gamers i was another of the attacked in school because i was a quiet shy person and ive found with wow it not only makes u feel comftable playing but it also can boost your confidence a lot
i mean my self for example last year i would have been hardly the type to stand infront of a group of people and talk but because of this game i now do
as for people saying doing it 4 hours a day is an addiction i am one of the crowd that just after i left my job (due to payment issues not wow!) found myself playing a lot more i became one of the "addicted" i was playing for 98 hours a week average thats 14 hours a day
tbh if u are playing as much as that congratulations on getting to lvl 80 :p but you should distance your self from warcraft a little i had the same problem finding things to do as i dont keep many friends close as of trust issues
as for the girlfriend thing my other half plays wow and we have a healthy relationship and couldnt be happier we are able to give each other space yet be there if needed in all aspects of the relationship
i dont feel that people who play wow are addicted the 2 most successful raid guilds ive been in 1 was run by an ict manager and the other was run by some one in the army neither seemed to suffer from any job loss or issues from playing wow most of the players i know that are on as much as i am are all happy in friendships work related matters and relationships
please dont think that every1 who plays wow is an addicted fan who doesnt care for theyre own well bieng as a lot of people i know are nice people who dont diserve to be tarred with this brush
i dunno either to end this comment with a leeeeeeeeeeeeeroy! or a more commonly known
bump!
hehe thanks for reading
dave
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I have reciently stopped playing, recognising that I was spending too much time in the game. I was a serial leveler, and not overly proficient at the endgame. I made a lot of friends around Europe on the game. Although in life itself, you get the nasty people too, and the game makers like thier cash too, and do little about it. I work with people who play the game too, one of them lost a marriage through it! So basically if you are obsessive or prone to addiction, stay away from the game. Everyone else enjoy the fun.
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I have been playing WoW for nearly 3 years. Until the release of WotLK i was in an end game raiding guild (Raiding BT & MH). To get to that level of the game you have to show quite a bit of commitment, you have to spend quite a lot of time researching the raid encounters and trawling through websites for hints and tips to maximize your playing style. The thing is until they released the final patch dungeon Sunwell plateau I had killed all bar 4 of the bosses available and I did this raiding only 2 days a week in a guild designed for people like me who are mature, in full time employment and have families. I have been in a relationship with my girlfriend for nearly 8 years and she understands that it is my hobby to do this 2 times a week. She lets me play without getting annoyed at me for spending time on the computer and in return I am understanding when she wants to do her hobbies.
People who play this every day for hours on end need to take a look at thier lives because there really is no need to play it that much and still achieve the goals set out before you in game.
On the other side of the coin, husbands, wives, girlfriends, teachers etc who moan about someone they care about or are responsible for playing WoW too much should take a look at themselves and realise if they supported the WoW player more instead of moaning they might acctually want top spend more time out of the game enjoying life with them.
Just remember it's a hobby and unless you are chinese it's not a job.
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@141
I can't quite see how you can describe flower arranging or playing the piano as physical extroverted pursuits, but I do know what you're trying to say, and I concede the point.
I guess I just know how I was when I loved computer games and regularly immersed myself in them pretty much to the exclusion of everything else... The thing is, I wasn't a confident person and despite building the ability to converse with people quite easily in games, it was never something that carried into 'real' life for me.
I can't comment on things such as event planning, group management etc as not being a WoW player, I haven't seen these in action or seen how they are relevant to real life. But if some good can come from playing, then again I'm conceding a point, that can only be a good thing.
I guess the most important thing I can say, and perhaps a few other people would fare well to take heed here, is that we're not all the same. I don't see the value anymore of living in a fantastical world with no (perceived) benefit. That being said, just as many people could very much look across my life and hobbies, and struggle to see meaning or reason, arguing there's no 'point' to the things I'd do... Don't know how I'd feel in that instance, but I know I wouldn't be best pleased!
In conclusion then. I'm not particularly convinced there's a great deal of benefit to playing WoW 8 hours a day, but then, I don't need to be convinced! I do, however, value new ways to learn different skills, and it Warcraft does that, then it can't be all bad.
Just as an aside, I think there's a very interesting debate that could rage regarding the perhaps 'tribal' behaviour of these raiding guilds...
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#134 EuanMcArthur said - "What an adult gains from work is a healthy social life (chances are you enjoy your work) and money."
Chances are you enjoy your work?
If you're lucky, there are millions that don't. And frankly, if you're getting your social life from work then there's probably something wrong with you. Most people have friends outside of work, school friends, family friends, people you met in the pub, people you met through the internet (quite common these days), people you meet through hobby groups.
Work is an odd place to meet friends, and other than exceptional cases it leads to fairly shallow friendships, always constrained by power relationships and office politics.
Nothing wrong with internet buddies, I've had some fine nights out with mine.
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"A couple who had travelled down from Gateshead to be at the launch laughed at the idea that they were "addicted". If they chose to spend their evenings on a World of Warcraft raid - quite a social experience - rather than down the pub, how did that harm anyone? Good point."
Umm.. anyone heard of alcoholism? Bad choice of analogy. Just because you can brand it as 'social' doesn't mean it's not an addiction, nor does it mean that it doesn't harm anyone. Harming your own prospects by spending a disproportionate amount of time immersed in a virtual world counts.
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I play wow and have for 3 years and i never got behind on any work, i used to get home then study and as a reward play wow for ~ 5hours and no one seen anything negative about my grades they went up!
Also just because players are not face to face with other people doesn't mean they aren't socializing as players talk to each other while in-game, and many find a girlfriend/boyfriend in doing so.
I have always thought of game 'addiction' or any 'addiction' as a way to get around doing thing you don't really enjoy but these 'addicts' still manage to go out and do things they want to, even go to the pubs with friends which many of my friends who are so-called 'addicts' did.
If parents actually reward teenagers with a few hours of games then homework etc. will be done, but instead parents decide they will let there kids do what they like and even buy 18 rated games for under 15's!!!
Instead of instantly blaming games/TV/Radio or anything else for anything that happens (or doesn't, eg homework) take a deeper look into their lives and see what is happening in it and you might just find that a teenager that stole a car because he was playing or watching media that is rated above his age as a parent/guardian/relative bought him the latest game without looking at the recommend age and advise.
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Why are people having a go at WoW or any MMO it's just a game that millions of people all over the world enjoy. Yes some get addicted to much, but if it wasn't WoW or any other MMO it would be something else, but those with shyness, inability to interact with others in the real world, disabilities or something else. It allows them people to forget all their troubles and just have fun. The way most players on WoW interact with each other and the game is what makes WoW the best game I have ever played, what makes it so fantastic is that every character has someone else controlling it, where on other normal games is that once you've worked out how to win the game is easy and boring, most MMO's especially WoW is different, WoW is chaotic and great fun, what works well one day will may not and in some cases will not work another day if you get noobs in your group. If you don't like MMO's don't play, just don't moan about us you noobs (who can’t even play pong because it’s to hard), look I have just put a labelled on all you who are having a go and I have not ever met you, is that fair no. So why should you do it against us. If some kids are playing this or any game to much their parents should stop them, or what are the parents doing to allow them to play anything too much. I am married and 40 years old WoW is just a fun interacting game, which lets me relax and forget about work and hassles for a few hours once the kid is in bed, I have fun chat with friends. Some do go over the top and get to addicted but there is going to be some idiots in every hobby or activity in the world. If it wasn’t an MMO it could well be something stupid and illegal or dangerous. 99.9% of WoW players play it because it’s a fun game, nothing else, we know when we are doing it to much and stop when we do. We know it’s not real and it’s a bunch of pixels moving around a VDU with sound effects. Well my Pally is real because she talks to me, just kidding ?. Some have said the blizz (Blizzard) rewards you for having a break ? well yes and no. When you have one character having a break you just play another one. In WoW you have levels and goals you want to reach and achieve and yes I have played it a bit longer then I intended at times when I have needed match sticks to keep my eyes open lol, but that is rare and the wife will stop me or let me know. It’s just a fun game nough said.
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Lots of great comments and a good debate going on here.
My contribution? We should let people do as they please in life whether it's gaming, tv-watching, or book reading. Who am I to tell anyone to limit the amount of gaming they do?
And if parents feel their children's gaming is getting out of hand, then communicate with them - and in some cases, we should never be afraid to seek help.
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Like every excess..even excessively play videogames affects negatively the individual.
People that follows fanatically fashion, sports or music, people that devote all their life to work and make money,people that follows rules dictated by the catholic church and let someone else play with their own lives..and as someone else posted before alchool...drugs... our society is made of addictions and abuses.
If someone decided that online comunities are much better than real life society..well I can't blame them...I'm probably one of them ( and I'm a proud gamer fyi).
The point here is...there's so much to worry about in this world rather than worry about us players...if someone dies of hunger on the streets nobody cares, if someone dies playing online games it goes straight on the newspapers..oh snap...
I agree to a certain extend about the parents responsibility on this...parents should give the chance to their kids to discover the world that surround them, I'm talking about books,music or movies that not only entertain but stimulate conscience and sense of fairness and moderation.
The truth is..it's hard to find parents that know how to educate their child and give the good example ( and I'm aware that even that sometimes it's not enough).
Limitate the playtime of a gamer won't save the gamer...it sort the issue out temporarely..but on a long term the issue is still there... sometimes parents just need to talk to their children and try to understand the children point of view. Again we're talking about videogames when the real issue is the real life behind the game...
My two cents..
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wow what a lot of posts. and some good ones. rory - i do hope you've read with an open mind.
backing up gothnet above...
fact is most people don't enjoy work - let's get real here in a system that encourages people to be continually ambitious and is simply a pyramid not everyone will achieve. that's a mathematical fact not a point of view or ideological argument.
personally i enjoy work but for one hell of a long time didn't.
further those who make their main friendships via work are frankly rather odd for the reasons gothnet posts about. if i were a psychiatrist i'd be more concerned why they no longer have good friends from school or uni days than i'd be about the odd obsessive/compulsive type getting a bit keen on playing Warcraft.
there's a real pyschological/sociological aspect to this whole debate...why do we portray people like gamers so badly? is it fear of the new? is there an under current of orwellian type programming/social condtioning going on?
i don't want to take this off topic but the we needs to stop perpetuating sensationalist concerns regarding people mostly just having fun.
160 said "Harming your own prospects by spending a disproportionate amount of time immersed in a virtual world counts."
Well there isn't prospects for all, that's the society we live in. Would be be better off discussing how to provide more prospects than demonising relatively harmless methods of escape?
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More of the British belief in a 'Nanny' State.
Complete and utter disregard for human rights lobied for government legislation. I know this isnt law yet but how long until World of Warcraft is regulated?
But oh no, Labor does not care about Childs rights because it does not affect them. Take the mosquito. If Adults could hear it, It would made illegal. But oh no, Kids are the scrapegoat of the law.
Labor also wants to connect with Children. The only way they will 'connect' with me is the pen connecting to the voting paper that says Conservative.
Honestly, I feel though I have less human rights than the average citizen of the PRC
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It's terribly easy to get into a very heated debate over issues that people feel passionately about. Sadly, this usually prompts the usual mudslinging responses and comments about 'fanboys'... the whole point of this is to create debate and it's inevitable that both standpoints will be represented!! I have to say I don't see many postings here that suggest exteremist fan responses etc - what I do see are, in the main, reasoned and intelligent responses. This should be giving us an interesting insight into the demographic of the game players of WoW!!
But I digress... I'd like to build on the comments made in posting 144. Looking at the bigger picture, there are some very positive aspects that we can take from MMORPGs. As an educator, I and many of my colleagues are struck by the way that the gaming industry has successfully created immersive environments that engage and retain the attention of adults and children alike. Research is already happening in these areas, but it will be a great move forwards in education if we can analyse the facets of the game structure, quest and rewards systems, story arcs etc and find a way to apply these to create meaningful and engaging learning contexts. Inevitably there will be resistance to these ideas, especially from those who are unaware of the potential these environments can offer. Exciting and successful teaching for language courses, medicine etc already exist in SecondLife, but at present this is aimed at adult education.
I'm a relatively new player to WoW - I subscribed as part of my research but am now a keen player. It must be said that WoW caters for a variety of tastes and interests. For me there will never be much of a draw as far as raiding, epic gear etc is concerned. In my case the attraction is twofold - the environment and the social aspect.
The diversity of environments in-world is astonishing - from barren wastelands and rainforests to volcanic craters and fijords - it's stunning! Mindboggling really when you think it all derives from 0s and 1s! The orchestral score is impressive - the quests are varied and interesting. Some ask what we get out of doing this and query that it's an unproductive waste of time. I'm an avid reader and a musician too - I could pursue either of those of an evening too, but the end result is the same: I've enjoyed myself, I've relaxed, I've enjoyed some timeout from everyday stresses having some ME time. Perhaps there is no tangible product as a result which some people seem to demand there should be - but what could be more important than allowing myself some time for relaxation and enjoyment - such a crucial factor in today's high pressure society...
In WoW I belong to a social guild - we're not interested in raiding and there's very much a family feel to the group. Those I play regularly with include: a clinical researcher, a tyre fitter, a school girl, a university lecturer, a couple of BBC employees and a professional musician with albums available in highstreet shops! I'm struggling to think of many other opportunities I would have in life where I could meet such a diverse group of people in the same place! This really is at the crux of the game's appeal for me. Without the social element I'm not sure whether I'd play the game. There are some evenings where our play is very focused - yet another attempt at Tempest Keep etc. But there are other days when hard days at work mean people in the group want to unwind and have a natter - often little gets 'achieved' in-game on those occasions - but it doesn't matter.
There are social players, hardcore raiders, educated, uneducated, professional, student unemployed, popular people, social misfits, those for whom the game takes over a disproportionate part of their life, and of course testosterone fuelled teengagers who think there's nothing more entertaining than griefing other players - BUT... in a game with 11 million players, just like any other walk of life, you will a huge diversity of people.
As a former teacher, I would say to parents that the game itself offers more benefits than it does drawbacks. I would not be concerned about pupils of mine who were playing the game, indeed it tended in my experience to attract the more intelligent pupils anyway. What I would be careful about is limiting the time spent on the game and ensuring it's part of a balanced lifestyle / activities. This is your responsibility as a parent to be helping your child make appropriate choices - not the responsibility of Blizzard. As a child I was allowed to play computer games - but the time spent doing so was monitored and limited. No discussion and no argument. Sadly, I agree with comments that overuse in school children / students is all too often a result of lack of engagement and interest in their schooling... Brings me back to my original comment that we need to harness this phenomenon and apply it for academic purposes!
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rory:
i have never played the "warcraft" game and i am not addicted to it either....
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I know this blog is old so I doubt anyone is still reading this, but...
Me and my partner are both heavy gamers and WoW isn't the first game we've got addicted to. I've been playing MMORPGs since my early 20's and I'm very glad they didn't exist prior to that since I'm sure my education would have suffered for it.
The problem is, we have a young son now. Things are fine so far and we never let our gaming get in the way of family life and we always wait until he is asleep before playing. But I can't help feeling, with two gaming geeks for parents, what chance has he got but to grow up into a gamer himself?
In one sense, I'm looking forward to him being old enough to share this hobby with his parents and I know he'll enjoy and get pleasure from it. I'm also optimistic that, as old-time gamers, we have sufficient experience to know what to expect, how to manage our time and where to draw the line.
But I'm also dreading the day when it goes too far and the arguments start because he won't stop playing. I want him to enjoy games, but I can't bear to see his childhood wasted through excessive play.
I've chatted in-game with many young teenagers and the way that they talk about their parents is often alarming. Parents are the enemy. I've heard young lads talk about hating their parents, about killing them, calling them names that are truly shocking. It breaks my heart.
Even though me and my partner both like games and understand the culture, I know that at some point I will have to restrict my son's game time and I am in fear of how he will react. I plan to introduce controls from the start so that he never has a chance to become addicted and I just hope that we have the parenting skills to handle it in a positive way.
I feel there is very little help for parents when it comes to children and computer games. I would love some guidance on the best way to prevent children from becoming addicted and how to deal with them when they do but there is no guidance, only blame for "bad parenting" and "evil games". If an old game-lover like me could use some advice then it must be far worse for parents who don't have the first clue about games. Some of the stories are really scaring me.
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Just to chime in, I've been playing world of warcraft for 3 years now. I'm not obsessed with reaching the highest levels or ranks. I take my time, enjoy the social aspect and help the noobies get acclimatized, it gives me a warm glow. If I've got something better to do in the real world I won't play, similarly if there's nothing on the telly and I've got some free time and haven't got a book on the go I'll log on and have a couple of hours fun. Also a stern look from my girlfriend is more than enough to dissuade me logging on, computer fan she ain't!
My little brother had been watching me playing and had decided he wanted to give it a go. First thing I did was tell our parents and talked them through setting up all of the parental controls. World of warcraft is now seen as only something he can play if he's done his homework, cleaned his room ect. Fair enough he goes on it more at weekends but that's mixed in with taking the dogs for a walk in the woods and other activities.
My point is that there is a lot built in to World of Warcraft and other MMORPG's to tailor it to suite your needs. Just lately a link to parental controls has been put on the loader trying to make it more visible but maybe there should maybe be something on the box, highlighting parents to this service because most children probably get it and then dissappear for weeks only resurfacing to go to the toilet and eat.
I've never known anyones parent to read the box or instruction manual of a game. I wouldn't suggest moving a computer into a childs bedroom either, it's better to keep it in the living room so you can monitor their time on it. The buck stops at the parents and family, the tools are available it's just that they don't get used nearly enough.
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My 17 year old son has been addicted to online gaming for 2 years now. He dropped out of school nearly 2 years ago suffering from severe anxiety/social phobia and took his online gaming to a new level from then onwards. He was doing extremely well at school and predicted to get all A's and A*'s in his GCSEs and would have been expected to continue his education through to degree level. We have spent many hours seeking help from phychiatrists and other health professionals to get the help we need but have made little or no progress. His addiction gets worse by the day - at present he is spending all night online, then sleeps all day, rising at 5pm to get straight online again. He doesn't wash, eat properly or have any interaction with his parents or siblings. This has all but destroyed our family life (we have 3 other children) and every single member of our family has been seriously affected. We have seen what was a wonderful, loving son and brother turn into someone who can be violent, manipulative and desperate in his behaviour. We are continuing to try to get the right sort of help for our son but do feel compelled to warn other parents of the serious dangers of these online games.
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This is just another sad article trying to demonize MMORPGs. Sure, if they get out of hand, they can cause problems in your life. Yes, they can redoubtably be "addictive", but you can't define addiction this way in the same sense you would a heroin addict. However, you can take absolutely anything and make it addictive. Why just MMORPGs? Why not Halo3? I know many people who play 8 hours a day. Does that mean they're addicts? No. It means they have more fun playing it than they do doing other things. What about people who obsessively train for sporting events? They do it for the "glory", don't they? Not to mention it doesn't benefit them in the real world whatsoever after. Why not write an article about them?
I have been gaming since I was old enough to understand how, my parents bought us a computer at a very early age (back when a 386 cost $3000-4000, ha). I have grown up completely normally. I have been part of "in" social circles my entire life, and have never had social issues. That's strange, though, because it's not unusual for me to play a game, including World of Warcraft, for 4-12 hours in a day.
I have a full-time career, girlfriend, house, vehicle, dog, and a plethora of other "normal" things and responsibilities in my life, and none of them are neglected.
I feel there isn't much more I can point out considering the massive influx of mail I'm sure you've already received.
I thought it was cute how you had to point out that you thought it wasn't irresponsible to touch on a topic as serious as this. That's an awfully defensive closing. I guess all of those emails pouring in hurt your feelings.
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I dont think playing WoW poses any threat or danger. Playing WoW something one should not to be afraid of. It is just a matter of control and living a balanced life. There is no such thing as WOW addiction. Its a matter of CHOICE. Choosing to play WoW.
Let me share this.
http://www.2articles.com/story/wow-gold-saves-the-day-how-rmt-helped-a-starving-student
In this article I have seen both the bad and good sides of WoW.
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All of the wow players that are commenting this artictle by saying "I keep it under control, I am casual" are not honest, mostly with themselves.
I have been playing wow for around 2 years. I have been gaming for around 20 years (since Amstrad).
I love gaming, but what happened to me while playing wow has no comparison.
I use to play even for 12 hours straight with a cool new game but after a while (few weeks) this would eventually go away.
Then if no new game in my hands I would re-visit some of my favourites and play a couple of hours every day, or maybe not play at all for a couple of months.
When playing wow, which is maybe the greatest game I put my hands on, there is no end, you can literally play for ever (see "achievements", "new gear", "content", "lore"). This game is designed so that you constantly have something to do.
The problem is not that I take time from my sleep to play (trying to be ok with my wife, kid and work). The problem is that when you close your eyes you think of it. When you are at work you and have 5 minutes to spare you read "mmo-champion" and check the latest forum posts. When you go for a beer with 'IRL' friends that you play wow with the only topic you have is wow. This game is an obsession and I dont think I am the example of weak person.
I have a friend that when his wife was going to the hospital to deliver his baby and he received the phonecall, he didnt leave the game "before seeing the loot of the Sunwell boss they had just downed".
Another one played wow all night before getting married because he was too "nervous".
I repeat that it is a great game and I would recommend it to everyone but the "objectives" and the "content" are that huge that you feel un-satisfied no matter how many hours you have just played.
I have met tons of people in this game and I have not yet see the "casual" type. There are no casual wow gamers. People above are just dis-honest with themselves. Even these that are not "hardcore raiders" are heavily addicted. They return every freaking day to accomplish a new objective or "level" a new character.
This is the second day of my wow-break. I have cancelled my subscription with the target of not playing 6 months.
I will try other games (not on-line ones for this period)and try to un-hook a bit, but I am sure I am not going to get the gaming experience of wow.
Sorry for my english (not a native english speaker)
Cheers,
Dimitris
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@ Dimitris - If all you have said is true - if i change the subject from WOW to Football am addicted to football as well as wow, as i check football forums in work as well as wow, i talk to RLF about football as well as wow, sometimes i play football in real life sometimes i play football games and sometimes i go and watch my team play football. Also i lay awake sometimes at night thinking about football, am sure am not the only one, maybe we should stop football as well. Or maybe you look at them both for what they are leisure activities - good luck with your wow break if you feel you need it. Personally i would rather play wow or football then watch the Telly or read newspapers or junk mags.
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i can honestly say that for the longest time i was addicted to wow and i was well known as a "power leveller" - before the days of guides and paying for help i was known for my ability to just grind my way endlessly through levels. usually getting from level 1-30 in about 10 hours and so on but then one day something just clicked in my head and i thought "why am i doing this?"
result: i took 3 months out of wow (no withdrawl symptoms or anything) during which time i focused on my physical health, social life and my job.
I do still play wow but nowhere near as much as i used to. I never feel that urge for "just another 10 minutes more" but that said, i do understand how and why people do get addicted to it. I have some good friends who i have met through wow who live 150miles north from me and i go to see them on a semi regular basis. they were once "hardcore players" like me but like me they dont generally feel the urge to play constantly. i can happily go a few weeks without even opening the game up.
I would personally say that more needs to be done to combat or at least identify the reasons WHY kids, and even adults, are happy to spend more time in games than in the real world.
for me it was the effects of money and popularity on "my generation" (im 24)
i never had much money, im no exactly a brad pitt lookalike and i never was the athletic type with the exception of martial arts and climbing...
so i entered a world online where none of that mattered, where all that mattered was how you treated others. Sure you would get the odd player who was just a complete waste of cyber-oxygen but generally in online games its a case of you can be nice to people and people will be nice to you which would put you in a good mood so you would be nice to more people... it goes on and on...
Best of luck to Dimitris and all the others that are stepping away from their characters into the bright shining light of the real world. Its not all pretty and there are no achievement points for learning that rare and elusive [Recipe: Lasagne] but it has its good points...
p.s. If you do happen to learn to cook lasagne... its my favourite food *hint*
^_^
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i can say with no remorese that i would firmly fit the 'addicted' catagory or wow gamers, i spend many an hour a night playing warcraft, sometimes until 2-3 in the morning. I know that this can be seen as 'bad' an frowned upon, but idont think at any point it has hindered me, my family or my social life as a whole. Even before warcraft came into my life (for which it has been for the best part of 5 years, barring the odd absence through bordom/lack of money), i spent my time sociaising round mates houses playng on computers, going home and still staying up until 2-3 am, its my way of life, i cope with 6 hours of sleep a night no problem what so ever, it has always been this way, and without wow, i would still be the same, even without computer games, the likely-hood is that i would spend the same time watching tv/films.
Warcraft is a time dump for me, im 26, happily married, with a 3yo son and expecting another child in april, the last expansion came out when my son was born... quite litterally the month after he was born, and even tho i knew it would impeed my playing time, i still managed to get on, i still managed to fulfil many of my online goals in the game, some i sacrificed, and even knowing i had/have an addiction to the game, not at any point did i decide that my sons feeding time could wait, that the wife would take over the duties, we as most, took turns, joined in together, i wouldnt miss any of that for the world, same as i wouldnt miss raids. Maybe i was lucky in the guild, maybe i have a very good son, whatever it maybe, the 2 never realy get in the way.
I still socialise, even more so i would say nowadays, even though i technially do more hardcore 'stuff' in game than ever before, i do know that sometimes i have annoyed the wife with the amount of time played on the game, but its never reached crisis point.
my slant on it all is that when i get back from work at 6pm, my son is in a very regular sleeping pattern, something not designed to fit around my wow time, its a faimily trait, a 7pm watershed. my 1st thought when getting home is to see my boy, nothing in the world beats coming home and being greated by your son/daughter (all parents will know this feeling... its great aint it :D). the wife and i take turns each nite of the week taking him to bed, when its the wifes turn i will undoubtedly turn wow on, because it is a time sink, i would other-wise sit and watch tv, or a movie, both equally as moronic from my pov than wow is to the non-player.
on weekends, we have our family time, and yes sometimes during that i will play wow, but you see here is what i dont see anyone getting, my son loves spiderman (or any comic book hero for that matter), and he watches him repeatedly, film, cartoon.. anything, the wife and i are quie frankly sick of spiderman, so when its on, the wife will pick up a book. now it comes to me, i either sit there, twiddle my thumbs, watch spiderman for the umpteenth time or as i usually do, stick wow on and fill my 'free time'. i never neglect my son, i drop eveything at a moments notice to go tend to his needs.
i have great friends i have only ever met online, i have seen their pics on socoal netwoking sites, n i have heard their voices on countless VoiP programmes (skype/vent/teamspeak...) and i class these people as very close, some of which have dedicated and willing helped me with real money to keep my time up if for 1 reason or another i struggle for the cash that month. these people are of varying social standing, many without children and yet all are happy to accept that mid fight i may go afk, i dont get judged, i dont get penalties. they all accept and encourage away time, son/wife/mates coming round n taking u away from their time.. this is not a special guild deisgned around me, im a fringe player if anything, but i manage to fulfill all demands in life and in game and keep myself headstrong whilst puttingin 5-6 hours a night, yes a night, as i have done for years (whichin that time i managed to secure a job, get a GF/wife, get married and copulte, non at the expense of the other.
i find the social aspect of the game brilliant, i love to level a toon, or rather 2 specific ones coz im too stubborn to branch out and try a new class lol, but i log on mainly to speak to the people i like, the friends i have made i talk to on msn/facebook with regularity and we connect not just on wow, but on other aspects.
i will limit my childs time if he ever does, and its a good thing that you can, and i feel you hould, butas an adult, if he were to play wow as much as me, in my house, 1. i can keep tabs on him,he is likely to be playing when i do, and ill make sure im on atleast the same server as him. 2. id rather wow or any other mmorpg than him out, like i was in my teenage years, on the street, drinking and making a neusance of myself.
3. he could be out taking drugs also, another thing that would be extreamly hard given him being at home with me in my house under 'control'
drugs/alcohol are the worries for my son, the things i will try to keep him off (even though i have done and do myself), wow, and mmorpg's alike will not be my major concern.
the pro's of the game far outweigh the cons in my opinion and exerience
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It's got to the point where admiting you play WoW is kinda like admiting that you watch Porn. Its something you have to keep to yourself in polite company.
The thing is, its a very good game, it's rediculously big, has massive replayability and you can play with friends.
I started playing when a big group of friends did, there were about 12 of us that all were good friends beforehand, or at least knew each other fairly well, so it was fun playing and chatting at the same time. Most of the guys have stopped playing now, but I still do. You might say I'm addicted, I sometimes joke that I am, I would be emotional if someone deleted my character for example, but I know where to draw the line. It doesn't interfer with my social life or work life, and I go weeks without playing sometimes because I just get a bit bored.
There are however alot of people that take it too far. You can see them in game, with the best possible items etc. They also seem to be socially stunted, they have their own little language of abrievations, and anyone who asks what they mean is branded a 'noob' or something along those lines with equally undecipherable txt style speak.
They come out with some insane comments like, (and this is pretty much copied and pasted from the in game chat) 'LF SP or Lock 4 heroic UB'.
What the hell does that mean?
Some of the big guilds have online application forms you have to fill in to join them! I mean come on! It's a game!!!!
They get really angry when it comes to the player verses player battles too. The language used is enough to put me off sometimes, and I've got a sense of humour that can be a bit of an aquired taste.
There's alot alot of elitism from some people, you get abused for not having the best kit or not knowing what happens in every dungeon.
There is definatly a problem with some people, but then it's mainly a social problem, not everyone who plays WoW ends up like them. Just like not everyone who drinks is an alcoholic. Most of us are normal people, who enjoy the game but don't let it take over our lives. The extreme ones umongst us give us all a bad name, and are part of the reason alot of people don't like the game.
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