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Rory Cellan-Jones

Girls Get Geekier

  • Rory Cellan-Jones
  • 29 Feb 08, 17:41 GMT


Any time I come across software developers or visit an I.T. business, one thing immediately strikes me – where are the women? For all the talk of girl geeks, computing - and technology more generally - is still a very male-dominated business. Even a few months back at a meeting of would-be Facebook application developers – a very young crowd - there must have been ten men for every woman.

But that could be about to change. A new survey out today from a major supermarket (no, I’m not going to name them – but the research looks reasonably sound) suggests that girls may now be better at some computing tasks than boys. The survey of more than a thousand 7-16 year olds found that girls were more likely to know how to create a word document, put a profile on a social network or upload a video onto YouTube. And whereas 10% of the boys said they were not confident with computers, the figure for the girls was just 6%.

I visited Brentside High School in West London today to film a report on this subject – and found an ICT class where the girls seemed at least as clued-up as the boys. They were 13 and 14 year olds who seemed confident about everything from using a spreadsheet to building their own websites.

The teacher herself, Varinder Randhawa, said much had changed since she left university a couple of years ago. “I remember I was one of five girls out of a class of 160,” she told me. “And in the programming classes I was the only one there”. Now, though, she is finding that her female pupils are just as keen on asking questions in class as the boys, and more and more of them are opting to study ICT.

What appears to be happening is that Web 2.0 – the social internet – is breaking down the gender barriers. Girls are more keen on using computers as communication tools, rather than bashing orcs and stealing virtual cars in the games which occupy the boys for so many hours. But in ten years’ time will the girls from Brentside High be competing for jobs as software developers? Let’s hope so.

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I am in high school.
Look at my IT class for another example.
The class do a qualification equivalent to 2 GCSEs, I have finished that and do another that is equivalent to 4.
Next to me, two girls complete a qualification worth 3 (with lots of help and support from me, whether they like it or not!)
The teacher is female, but doesn't know why she teaches ICT, as she is a Business Studies teacher, and Key Skills manager. She can do everything, but is by no means an expert, and regularly calls me over to ghelp her with things.

The rest of the class aren't worth mentioning, they are all a mixture of male and female, and spread across all different grades!

One point though, according to the Head of ICT, more boys than girls study the subject at A level, but girls do much better overall!

I get home, sign into Bebo and see more girls than boys, (but that MIGHT say more about me than who is using the technologies). Girls seem more into sharing their photos than boys, boys seem to adopt the 'can't be bothered' attitude!

Mind you, I had one friend on Facebook, and all I used it for is Scrabulous until very recently, now however I have no friends on Facebook, and all I use it for is playing with the developer tools. (I won a game, and lost a friend!)

And for the record, I AM male and saying that!

  • 2.
  • At 09:13 PM on 29 Feb 2008,
  • Sa'ul wrote:

Seems to be that these results are skewed... programming is a very math intensive pursuit and as we have observed in the past many more boys than girls pursue maths to the highest levels...

Let's get some critical thinking going here guys and not just regurgitate the stats from a supermarket of all places...

  • 3.
  • At 10:26 PM on 29 Feb 2008,
  • Craig wrote:

It should be noted that there is a difference between ICT, primarily taught at school and college, and computing science taught at University. While software development has been made more accessible over the years with the introduction of IDE's (eclipse/visual studio etc) and scripting languages for application style websites(Javascript) there is still a large gap between using word/excel/internet services and development of said systems( incidentally not the full scope for computing science nor software development). Computing science still has the stigma of only being for smart people and computer geeks. However the industry is increasingly looking for more well rounded individuals who can still program at a high level but interact with 'normal' people.

  • 4.
  • At 12:18 AM on 01 Mar 2008,
  • Niall wrote:

An interesting subject that was brought up by the Head of Department when I was at uni was that prior to computers in schools there was a reasonably even male/female balance doing computing courses in maths departments.

As those who had access to computers increased the number of females taking computing courses reduced.
Presumably this being that it is technology so it's a boys thing.

At work just now it is a 8 females to 22 males (Ignoring those doing non-IT roles).

It would be wonderful to see more women in our industry...but are women really that keen on geeking out over code? Given that I suspect a significant number of great coders are borderline Asperger's sufferers - a condition far more common in men than women - there isn't going to be any significant change in the sexual mix of developers.

Of course, women can bring extra skills to the trade and should be encouraged...in particular they're better than most male developers at understanding the needs of end users.

  • 6.
  • At 03:37 AM on 01 Mar 2008,
  • Andrew wrote:

"girls were more likely to know how to create a word document, put a profile on a social network or upload a video onto YouTube"

Honestly, those aren't really great indicators into how many of them are really interested in computers. Those tasks are basically turning into the equivalents of using a phone or being able to use a pen. In other words we're heading toward a society where those tasks are common and everyone knows how to do them.(or at least I think we are) So while they might have been good indicators at how many people are interested in computers 10 years ago, they don't really say much any more.

Also, you're 10% and 6% figure means absolutely nothing. What exactly feeling confident with computers means will quite likely vary wildly from person to person.

Don't get me wrong, things are changing, I think. But as far as I can tell your statistics and single case study don't really show this.

Hi,

I am a 19 year old guy, and have been successfully freelancing as web developer for about 6 months now - I started "geeking out" when I was about 13, and am entirely self-taught.

The UK IT curriculum is designed to teach people how to do the menial "office drone" tasks, and my experience shows it heavily discourages any experimentation or outside learning - I was accused of cheating because my work for "creating a website" was too professional.

My experience of the industry as a whole is that women are much more predominant in the "design technologies" and it is almost exclusively men in the "heavy technologies" (programming).

If the UK continues to discourage innovation in IT the skills shortage can only get worse.

I am going on to study Computer Science at Liverpool uni next year.

Hi,

I am a 19 year old guy, and have been successfully freelancing as web developer for about 6 months now - I started "geeking out" when I was about 13, and am entirely self-taught.

The UK IT curriculum is designed to teach people how to do the menial "office drone" tasks, and my experience shows it heavily discourages any experimentation or outside learning - I was accused of cheating because my work for "creating a website" was too professional.

My experience of the industry as a whole is that women are much more predominant in the "design technologies" and it is almost exclusively men in the "heavy technologies" (programming).

If the UK continues to discourage innovation in IT the skills shortage can only get worse.

I am going on to study Computer Science at Liverpool uni next year.

  • 9.
  • At 05:52 AM on 01 Mar 2008,
  • nagyelme M. wrote:

re Girls Get Geekier - Beg to differ from the conclusions drawn....

I think that the assumption that uploading videos or computer literacy has a strong correlation with becoming a software developer is entirely mistaken. Tenacity and a curiosity in how things work inside are much more important factors. Teenage girls are more socially motivated, that is why they are more adept at using computers. But a software developer or engineer has to have the ambition of an applied scientist. Females reading this may be taken aback, but the fact of the matter remains - women always had and continue to have little interest in technology and science for its own sake. Now if someone can provide me a reasonable explanation why that is so (other than blaming men for keeping them down) i'd be really interested to know.

  • 10.
  • At 07:17 AM on 01 Mar 2008,
  • Matthew wrote:

There's a massive difference between being able to use a word processor, or frequenting social networking sites to becoming a software developer.

There's also a very clear connection between boys who "bash orcs" and "steal virtual cars" and boys who become software developers.

My observations concerning the fairer sex and IT, is that although women could be equally as talented, if not more so, the interest is often simply not there.

A desire to "get under the hood" and tinker is an absolute prerequisite.

Socially, males are far more prone to "tinkering" than women are, whether that extends to actual physicality and genetics, I really don't know.

  • 11.
  • At 08:21 AM on 01 Mar 2008,
  • Sean wrote:

I am a network manager at a 'bullish' secondary school in Yeovil. It has been my observation that the use of technology is driven and learnt becuase of 'an end result'.
Girls on the whole focus mostly on communication technologies, MSN, Yahoo etc and spend many hours creating a portrayed 'image' on Bebo, Facebook and alike. It is 'fashion' and expected.
People of my generation (40ish)barely remember the introduction of a computer a school, let alone the internet, but for students today it represents a tool, nothing more - like the telephone for us.
A 'stand alone' PC to a student is a broken PC!
So does this make girls more adept then boys? Maybe.........in the creation of their social networking sites they are exposed to various technologies from photo editing to web creation - here lies the crux of the issue. Where as using such tools may seem amazing to older generations, to the younger generation it's as base as pressing the digits on your mobile phone.
You may spend 80k on a brand new car, know how to drive it, use it's features and maybe even change a wheel, but does that mean you want to become a mechanic? For most the answer is probably not.
The use of PCs is no different.
I have an amazing technician, she's 23 and has a natural aptitude for 'IT', hardware, sofware, networking, cabling etc and he was a complete 'misfit' as school. She is now doing a degree in computer science which covers everything from project management to coding; I have no doubt in my mind she will move on to earn a good income. If you ask her if her school helped to influence her decision in moving to IT, she will laugh and answer 'No'.
The education sector on the whole is lacking - in most part, and apologies for using a wide brush, this is down to staff who are to old to want to learn new tricks. In time and through natural wastage, older IT inept staff will be replaced by younger, better trained, more dymanic staff who will be able to carry the torch for both sexes and show them the oppertunities that IT presents because they will actually understand themselves!

  • 12.
  • At 10:27 AM on 01 Mar 2008,
  • Piers wrote:

Software development is a world away from creating a word document. Isn't it true as a general rule that men tend to be more logical in their thinking. That's why a room full of programmers will be dominated by males. However, of course there are exceptions. Also as far as the IT world is concerned there's a magnitude of diverse roles. In which there are many far more suitable for females.

  • 13.
  • At 10:43 AM on 01 Mar 2008,
  • David Morgan wrote:

In my school we have a general opinion from the students that stems from their parents which is 'I dont need IT'. Although we are making links with local companies we could always do with more help. If there are any companies out there that might offer students some experience of IT in the work place could you please leave ideas.

  • 14.
  • At 11:34 AM on 01 Mar 2008,
  • Simon Kheptich wrote:

Given that Ada Lovelace (1815-1852) is credited with being the first computer programmer, it hardly seems in doubt that women have the ability. But software development tends to be a solitary pursuit with more interaction with machines than with human beings. Showing that women have an interest in the social uses of computers isn't any kind of proof that there will be a surge of female software developers, rather the opposite. It implies that they will go into professions that make use of computers, which doesn't narrow the options much these days. I think the software industry would benefit from more women but it is hard to change the existing culture.

  • 15.
  • At 12:22 PM on 01 Mar 2008,
  • David Howell wrote:

I suspect Web 2.0 is indeed having such an effect - but then again Facebook Apps is about as Web 2.0 as one could ask for and if THAT is a male-oriented crowd, it's clear we're some years from the sea change.

  • 16.
  • At 12:22 PM on 01 Mar 2008,
  • Hoover wrote:

Boys are only capable of "bashing orcs and stealing virtual cars", while girls "communicate".

I'm disppointed to see you succumbing to anti-male sentiment, Rory. But it doesn't surprise me to find it on this website.

This sort of prejudice from the BBC and other liberal media causes major damage. One article on its own can be ignored. But the steady drip-drip of reports suggesting that boys and men are worth less eventually makes them believe they are indeed worth less.

Doubtless you won't agree. It would take a considerable effort to rotate your thinking 180 degrees and understand another perspective. I'm sure you mean well when you write approvingly of "breaking down the gender barriers".

If you get the chance, I'd recommend Googling for a 2006 Newsweek article called "the trouble with boys". It's a good starting point, and might lead you to discovering the work of the respected psychologist William Pollack, what the Bill Gates Foundation is doing, and Michael Gurian's work.

  • 17.
  • At 12:30 PM on 01 Mar 2008,
  • Nick Ellwood wrote:

Women in IT? There used to be lots of them!

When I joined the IT department of a large company in 1979 the male/female ratio was somewhere about 40/60 (more women than men). Between then and when I left in the mid nineties the place became more and more male dominated. Basically what happened was that far from the exciting career they'd expected, many of the women just found the whole business very, very BORING. Sensibly, they decided there's more to life than sitting in front of a computer screen.

In our experience ICT literate women outnumber men in the more creative and visual professions within computing such as Graphic Design, Web Design and Animation - approximately 10-1. On your point of girls and the social internet I think you would agree all these professions have a significant communication element in them.

Whereas men vastly outnumber women in the more logical and pragmatic professions within computing such as IT Support, Software Development and Training - approximately 15-1. So on your point of boys being occupied by playing and competing in games, how successful they are comes down to understanding the rules within the game engine - a more logical element.

I guess it boils down to (as it always seems to with the sexes) the differences in the representation of the left hand side and the right hand side of the brain - we all play to our strengths!

  • 19.
  • At 04:37 PM on 01 Mar 2008,
  • Sarah wrote:

The examples of producing word documents and uploading videos have little to do with computing jobs such as programming, so the survey is pretty meaningless.
I am currently studying electronic engineering and part of the course includes a class in programming, and while I excel in and enjoy maths nd physics, I find programming the most intensly boring thing I have ever done...
To me it seems you'd need a very one track mind to cope with it at a professional level, something possessed by mainly men, the top programmer in our class talks of only cars and computers
But remember the first programmer was a woman!

  • 20.
  • At 04:57 PM on 01 Mar 2008,
  • Jon wrote:

I work as a software developer for an internet company. We have a very large team, with around 150 programmers, of which maybe three or four are women. I tend to agree with what Matthew wrote above, that most women just aren't interested in programming, any more than they are with car engines or electronic circuitry.

Having said that, when I was at university a few years back, there was large contingent of Chinese students on my computer science course. I noticed that while amongst the western students the percentage of women was probably about 2%, amongst the Chinese it rose to about 30%, which made me wonder if the tendency for women to avoid technical fields isn't at least partly cultural.

Computers and the internet are still very much dominated by men on the technical side of things and at one time men vastly outnumbered women also in internet use. Howevever as the Internet has been used increasingly as a market place and somewhere to shop and compare prices then women have become very significant users of the internet as they often find it convenient to shop online when they have very busy lives.

Although more women than before are involved in programming and web development, and certainly like myself in online business, I think this remains more male dominated but not so much as before. This is a good thing because women bring a different perspective to things like web design.

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