A game of two cliches
Having just sat down and watched Match of the Day 2 from Sunday night again, a question occurs, which hopefully someone might be able to answer.
In his analysis of the Newcastle v Sunderland game, Alan Hansen described it as a match in which "no quarter was asked". Al actually didn't get as far as completing the familiar phrase, but it is so well known the shorthand version would do.
But do we really know what the phrase means? I don't. I know it is a phrase used to describe the kind of match in which two sides display even greater than usual commitment, but how did it end up meaning that? What is a quarter in this context?
A quarter of Midget Gems may be neither asked for nor given down at your local sweet shop, but how has this expression become associated with football , and does it apply to other sports where there are quarters? American Football, for example?
Are there other football-related phrases which seem meaningless on the face of it but which everybody understands to mean the same thing?
There is a great book called the Football Lexicon by Leigh and Woodhouse - but quarters, whether they are asked for or given or not, don't get a mention.
As a commentator, I find the language of football pretty interesting and consciously try not to resort to cliché, though sometimes "Oh, what a goal!" just comes out of your mouth before you have the chance to stop it! Actually, sometimes the goal is so good there is not much else to say about it.
One colleague of mine often uses the expression "if my memory serves me correct" when what he actually means is "if my eyesight has not let me down". The reality is that the fact, whatever it may be, is written in front of him in his notes.
One radio commentator frequently says "it goes a long way" when the ball flashes into the penalty area, which, I reckon, is a time-buying device. It gives him a split second to establish exactly who has done what in the subsequent melee.
I would be very interested to know if I use any similar verbal ticks without realising it. As for the old "no quarter asked or given" question, any explanations out there?
I’m Steve Wilson, one of the Match of the Day commentators. This season, I’ll be travelling round the country commentating on the Premier League and the Football League, as well as reporting for Football Focus. It’s shaping up to be an exciting season, culminating in the World Cup. On my blog, I’ll be sharing opinions and anecdotes and I look forward to reading your comments.
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~40~RS~)
Comments
Sign in or register to comment.
Quarter is an old word for mercy (according to the Webster dictionary, "mercy granted to a surrendering foe." A defeated army might have to surrender, but they did not have to ask for or accept mercy ("cry for quarter"); it would have been a show of bravery and pride to accept whatever harsh treatment the enemy then meted out. This saying is found on very old military reports in reference to captured prisoners.
Complain about this comment
So therefore in the footballing context it means that there was no mercy, shown or given, by either side
Complain about this comment
There's a good attempt at explaining it here:
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-giv1.htm
Complain about this comment
good explanation from post No.1,but i thought this was a well known phrase and not only used in a footballing context. I'm kind of suprised that you're not sure where it originates from
Complain about this comment
How is "what a goal!" a cliche? To me that is just expressing an opinion.
Lines like Slide Rule Pass, Threaded Ball and Cross-Come-Shot are football cliches.
Complain about this comment
I think alot of phrases that we understand as cliches have a services background or from Shakespeare and we just don't know it.
Brass monkey weather and a pound of flesh respectively, though I appreciate these aren't necessarily just restricted to sport.
Complain about this comment
Yeah, as previous posters said it means mercy. Compare the folk song, High Barbaree:
Oh quarter oh quarter the pirates then did cry
Blow high blow low and so sailed we
No quarter will we give you but to sink you in the sea
A-sailing all along the coast of high barbaree
Which is pretty much the sentiment Alan Hansen was eruditely referrring to...
Complain about this comment
There is a Led Zeppelin song called No Quarter. Something to do with mercy being shown/ not shown by armies years ago.
Complain about this comment
Pretty shmabolic you did not know what that meant. It is not exactly a saying lost in the mists of time. C- must try harder.
Complain about this comment
What the &%$% does "a yard quicker " mean. It's one we hear often but it has no sense without context.
The most annoying is not exactly cliché but when commentators just recite what others say - "Drogba and Anelka / Gerrard and Lampard can't play together" being an obvious one.
And how many times this season have we heard "Arsenal are not playing their usual free flowing football". Maybe their free-flowing football is not so usual after all!
What about a relegation dogfight. Are there dogfighting leagues with promotions and relegations somewhere?
Still, it was a game of two halves, the boy done good and we are glad to come away with a point.
Complain about this comment
Before being sacked by ITV for "that incident", Ron Atkinson would regularly come out with baffling phrases to describe footballing action.
You can find them at http://www.ronglish.com/ website.
I don't know of any commentator or summarizer since that has used such bizarre phrases.
Complain about this comment
#9 Why are you marking his blog as though you're a teacher? I wouldn't be surprised if you're the same guy who marked Robbos blog, it's just pathetic, we're all human and just because one person knows something doesn't mean we all should do.
Complain about this comment
in this current weather a few people might be saying brass monkey related cliques. this referes to the equipment used to hold canon balls on old ships and when it went below a certain temprature the canon balls would fall off, hence the expression "freeze the balls of a brass monkey"
back on topic i cant think of you over using any clique on MOTD and both my wife and i think you are the best comentator on the program along with Motty. keep up the good work
Complain about this comment
Do you get paid for writing this Steve..?
Complain about this comment
It always makes me chuckle when a commentator says, "The ball dipped at the last minute".
The last minute? What - in the two seconds between it leaving the player's boot and hitting the back of the net?
Football seems to have a language to itself, sometimes it doesn't make perfect sense but that's okay, we know what you're on about.
Complain about this comment
"If a Brazilian had done that, we'd all be raving about it."
Complain about this comment
common phrase I notice is typically in reference to a shot going wide or a heavily weighted pass, "it was always going wide" or "he was never going to reach that." Being an american supporter at first I thought this was a funny unique way to say the shot is wide or the pass is too long but now it is just annoying.
http://www.futink.com
Complain about this comment
Yeah, in a field, somewhere in Hampshire.
Complain about this comment
There is one phrase that makes me shout at the radio when football commentary is on.
Radio 5 Live commentators are always saying "[Insert team name here] are playing from left to right".
They're on the radio!!! Even if you do happen to know the ground, you don't know where the commentators are so it doesn't help.
Complain about this comment
#11
I found Ron to be an entertaining commentator, certainly more so than Jim Beglin for example.
It's just a shame he was somewhat naive about the affect of his language, and remained so even after a visit to people who would be on the negative end of similar comments!
Complain about this comment
I've always what on eearth it means for a team to be "at sixes and sevens". I know it means they are all over the place but where does it come from?
From my knowledge, a six and a seven are right next to each when counting, not all over the place...
Complain about this comment
A couple of other cliches you only hear in relation to football.
"he can still do a job for us" which is usually used when an older play signs for a club towards the end of his career but frankly sounds like there are some low expectations
"we hope to get something ot of the game" which means we really hope we can scrape a draw!
Complain about this comment
"Crucial first 20 minutes"
"The first goal will be crucial"
Switching sports;
"Crucial first 10 overs"
"Crucial last half hour of play"
and into politics;
"Crucial first 100 days" (Obama.)
Complain about this comment
Am I alone in hating over-done commentary and then tiresome, repetitive 'analysis' ? Do we need several people to talk about a game we have seen with our own eyes ?
Doesn't the football or snooker speak for itself ? As for cliches and abuse of the English language by 'experts '....well...BBC, ITV and Sky could do worse than give commentators a refresher grammar course ( e.g. what is an adverb, an adjective etc. ).
Like many others, I record matches , ignore all of the yakkity-yak and watch only the football...with the sound turned down.
Finally, times are hard for ordinary folk and it is a slap in the face to see several blokes ( ok, I know about Gabby Logan ) being handsomely paid to merely talk about football. Get real .
Complain about this comment
Winning manager's interview at full time;
"Alex, Arsene, Rafa, Martin, David......are you happy with the 3 points?"
They never say no..........
Complain about this comment
I think what is most disturbing about this post is that it's a perfect example of why people use cliches -- mainly because they're too lazy to find a better word or expression. In this case, Mr. Wilson asks us, his readers, to uncover the origin of "to give no quarter." Why doesn't he have interest in the language he uses to earn his living to Google the phrase, or -- perish the thought -- pick up a book and divine its meaning?
Complain about this comment
That ronglish website is freakin hilarious
""Tell You What"...Be warned that this landmark phrase can signal the beginning of an extended tirade of pure Ronglish."
Comedy gold
Complain about this comment
And they asked No Quarter...
Led Zeppelin song, I assume it refers to 'mercy' as explained by post one.
Would fit with the lyrics of the song.
Complain about this comment
Thanks for all your erudite replies! Perhaps as an English Language and Literature graduate I should have known that "quarter" meant "mercy" but, to may shame, I did not.
Thanks also for the explanation of brass monkey, excellent!
#13 oke2008 - appreciate your comment.
#14 prestonSpurs - no i do not, your licence fee is safe!
#19 neilh8 - as a former radio commentator I can tell you that if you did not say that you would be inundated with complaints! Some listeners evidently like to create a mental image of what they are hearing - it is all part of what Peter Jones the late great football commentator called "painting pcitures".
#21 AndySymes - "at sixes and sevens" - I refer to the Football Lexicon I mention above - this apparently relates to an expression used by City of London Livery Companies squabbling over their places in the Lord Mayor's parade.
#26 pab1953 - I posted the subject because I thought it might spark an intesting discussion beyond just banging on about who has signed who and so on.
In fact it has done exactly that, if you don't wish to take part then don't. I repeat that I am not paid for doing the blog, I do it because I enjoy it ---- most of the time.
Complain about this comment
sorry about the typos above - reply in haste repent at leisure.
Complain about this comment
This is ever so slightly off topic, but you'll understand where I'm coming from, I hope:
In Ireland we have a commentator called Micheal O Muircheartaigh for Gaelic Games, who doesn't exactly resort to cliche's, but rather creates entire works of prose whilst delivering play by play commentary; a classic example being:
"Pat Fox has it on his hurl and is motoring well now ... but here comes Joe Rabbitte hot on his tail ...... I've seen it all now, a Rabbitte chasing a Fox around Croke Park!"
(more can be found on his wikipedia page)
The man is a national icon and rightly so, known as the Voice of Gaelic Games. Granted that the more local nature of Irish sport allows for a more intimate commentary, but still, wouldn't it be great if the Beeb could have their commentators go off into their own little world whilst keeping us all well informed on the action!?
Complain about this comment
Thanks for the "sixes and sevens" clarification, Steve. It's one that's always puzzled me and I've found many an explanation but they usually regard risk, not disorganisation.
Complain about this comment
"To be honest" - if they don't say that first are they lying ?
And why are defenders always described as "big" ? eg Big John Terry , Big Rio etc.
Another strange saying is "a must win game" - do you play some games you don't have to win ?
Complain about this comment
to #10 - relegation dogfight is another military reference. The airforce were involved in dogfights which are basically plane vs plane and all but every man for himself.
I must admit I like football language! Although it seems I may be a minority...
"Always going wide" is a good one, always puts me in mind of "couldn't hit a cow's rump with a banjo" for the more PC commentators...
Complain about this comment
"6 pointer" is always used too especially when relating to relegation (spot the Leeds fan! haha!) - the fact that you only get 3 points for winning doesn't seem to stop it being used end of every season over and over! And yes, I know its because you get 3 and it stops your rival getting 3, but meh
Complain about this comment
"it was going in as soon as it left his boot"
Like Mr Cech or Mr Friedel wouldn't have anything to say about it?
Complain about this comment
Why do all pundits use the term "for me"...?
Complain about this comment
The cliche that drives me to distraction is when a commentator says after a slightly unusual set-piece, "That's one from the training ground". Where the hell else do you think they practised it?
Complain about this comment
"Six of one, half a dozen of the other...."
"it was handbags..."
Complain about this comment
Im not so bothered about the use of cliches in football, its the awful puns that football journalists come up with that bug me.
One that always sticks in my head, after pennant had given liverpool the lead against chelsea a few years back the sky caption at half time said "Jermaine Man".
Complain about this comment
My most annoying point is when 'keepers punch or palm a ball wide for a corner, or back out into play, and the commentator , obviously bereft of anything sensible to say, comes out with "What a great save!"
It is obvious to anyone with eyes in their head that the ball had NOT,in fact, been saved-ie the 'keeper had a hold of it.
Time after time, during the course of a game, commentators make the same, or similar comments, and I find it v annoying.
Complain about this comment
The one I hate the most is "absolutely top drawer".
But maybe that's just because Andy Gray says it, and he's an idiot.
Complain about this comment
Also, anything where the player is referred to as "son"...again this seems to be Gray's speciality.
Complain about this comment
archie mcpherson
wwwwwoooooooooaaaaaafffffffffffff!!!!!!!!!
Complain about this comment
What the hell is "the rub of the green" and a"stonewall " penalty, ?!?!
Complain about this comment
One of my favourites is when a pundit is talking about the league and refers to "the so-called big four".
Alan Brazil did so the other day on the radio, but got slightly mixed up, and said "the so-called top four".
Complain about this comment
I find the use of cliches far less annoying than pieces of writing like this where even some basic research would have answered any questions you might have had. The fact you're in a position to write for such a large audience and don't understand the meaning of words - that are not so archaic as you make them seem - is shocking.
Complain about this comment
What about Jamie Redknapp and his over use of the word 'literally'.
I literally want to throttle him!
Complain about this comment
Do I really subsidise this site with my license fee to read nonsense like this? What on earth did you think quarter was? A measurement? Seriously, you need some further education.
Complain about this comment
Steve
Its good to get a fresh set of vocals on the commentary.
Please avoid 'fresh legs' and any over analysis or meaningless stat like
'If my memory serve me right - thats the only the fourth time a one-eyed centre back with red hair has scored the winner in the FA cup semi final.
Complain about this comment
In response to post 21:
If someone is at sixes and sevens then they are in a quandary; they don't quite know what to do next. The saying originates from a situation in 1327 and relates to the Guilds of Tradesmen in the City of London. The Merchant Taylors and the Skinners were founded within a few days of each other, five other Guilds having already received their charters. The age of each Guild dictated its position in the Lord Mayor's procession. The Merchant Taylors and the Skinners argued for fifty years as to which should go sixth in the procession. In the end, in 1494, Sir Robert Billesden, the current Lord Mayor, decreed that they should take it in turns to go sixth and seventh.
An alternative explanation that the saying has something to do with throwing dice is much less likely, and far less romantic.
Complain about this comment
good blog steve, and yes it has sparked off decent debate. its just a shame there are some out there who are overly critical.
on the cliche front, you often hear that the defending team must 'win the second ball'. Its quality that we can all nod our heads in agreement upon hearing these phrases however!
Complain about this comment
I get tired of hearing the inanae chatter from the likes of John Motson and David Pleat who not only bore us to tears with drivel but constantly use the term ebb and flow
Complain about this comment
#19, seriously? It doesn't matter where in the stand the commentators are, they are letting you know how the action will be relayed from their perspective.
Complain about this comment
Funniest bit of commentary by Motson, a couple of years ago during a particularly boring England friendly as I recall....
"Eriksson adjusting his glasses there....[long pause]....his spectacles".
Complain about this comment
The cliche that all commentators seem to use is that of describing tackles as 'challenges'.
When did a tackle become a 'challenge'? The word tackle is in the Laws of the Game. So why not use it?
Is it the fad with using 'nice sounding' words to describe things? Like passed away for died.
If it is a tackle call it that. Two players jumping to head the ball - fair enough to call that a challenge if you wish.
Complain about this comment
thanks you bringing to mind Andy Gray. the one thing that ruins FIFA '09 "open your top draw and pop that one in"!!!! WHAT
all said and done (pun intended) John Madden of NFL fame is the worst for cliques
Complain about this comment
The 'corridor of uncertainty' and/or the 'mixer' are two particular favourites of mine, even though the former was stolen from cricket
Complain about this comment
#21
The phrase apparently refers to civic parades in the old days. Everybody had to line up in order of seniority. When two people dis agreed about the order and resorted to squabbling, this was referred to "being at sixes and sevens".
Also, in the days of Robin Hood, when chaps would fight with quarter-staffs. Holding a quarter-staff meant one hand at the mid-point and the other between there and the end. A quarter-staff is a pole rather like a Boy Scout's staff. There is not a lot you can do with two hands, but it can become more effective one-handed, ie no quarter.
In games played where the slope of the pitch can have an effect, they toss for ends and play a half each way. Therefore "a level playing-field" is a meaningless cliche.
Complain about this comment
# 33: I have NEVER heard Rio Ferdinand referred to as "Big Rio"!
I am assuming #49 is on a wind-up. If not, I really pity you...
#45: The 'stonewall' penalty - absolutely annoys me too, especially the various versions of it - stonecold penalty, stonewall penalty....
One that I havent heard for a while - educated foot - as in "that lad, he's spraying the ball around the park with his educated left foot"
Personally, I love football cliches! It's quite funny the way pundits and commentators can completely murder the English language to describe a game of football...
Great article!
Complain about this comment
Rub of the green puts me in mind of lawn bowls where the way the grass is lying will affect the way your ball rolls... snooker too with the baize!
Complain about this comment
you're a football writer! how can you not know what quarter means? i thought shakespeare got forced down everyone's throats... obviously not. and 'if my memory serves me correctly" means 'my eyes are working'? HOW??? it means if i remember correctly, not 'i think i just saw that' - so is he wrong, or you? why have you just written a blog to tell us you can't write? SORT IT OUT
Complain about this comment
A cliche I can't stand is "two minuties of time" - as if there were two minutes of place, two minutes of dimension, etc and it needed to be qualified by saying two minuties of time. Just two minutes will do, especially as a journalist you need to speak in soundbites, more so towards the end of the match.
Also, sometimes commentators shift allegiances so quickly - a dominant team might have had 10 attempts and plenty of posession, and the other team one shot from which they socre, and yet as soon as they score, the commentator claims it was always clear who would score first, and how the team with one chance deserved something out of the game!
Complain about this comment
"He finished that with great aplomb" - now forgive me for questioning the intellect of the regular commentator here, but if you can find one commentator who actually knows what 'aplomb' means, i'll ... well, I'll, just.
However, if you want to hear real 'guff' commentating, there is nobody to surpass good old Sid Wadell on the darts - he needs to see a Harley street specialist the amount of utter bilge that comes out of him
Complain about this comment
Jim Beglin always annoys me with his cliches. His favourites are
"that was meat and drink for the goalkeeper"
and whenever a player heads the ball down, and it bounces over the bar
"well as a young lad your always told to head the ball down"
Complain about this comment
"He headed it too well"
When someone gets too much on his header and heads it wide.
Complain about this comment
Five minutes on Google would ahve found you the answers to your questions. I believe the technique is called research, you and your colleagues might like to try it some time as the inane and inaccurate nonsense that you lot spew forth every weekend is so tiresome that I watch with the sound off.
Complain about this comment
people on this discussion need to stop calling them 'cliques'.
Complain about this comment
I was watching a match on the internet the other night with just the commentator. It seemed very strange, almost eerie. I concluded that I preferred the now standard arrangement of a commentator plus an analyst. Dependent on the quality of both however.
My preferred analyst is David Pleat. I consider him to be to be concise and informative and essentially honest and impartial. Sadly however too many of the commentators like the sound of their own voice and rather stick to the commentary of the match want to impress with a raft of superflous and unnecessary chat, information and statistics. Basically BORING.
Worst offenders being, er, all of them. One of the worst was ( much improved ) Clive Tyldesley. He used to think of himself as a bit of a Jack Dee stand up at one time I think. Always the droll, as he thought, comment. Just the commentary Clive, forget the jokes.
But cliches? Football is full of them.
Every game is now MASSIVE. And - ' he will be disappointed with that '. Meaning, ' what a plonker - how on earth did a highly paid pro miss a sitter like that ?'
The least said about the BBC pundits the better. More like the ' old boys' club.
But not confined to football, my most irritating cliche is ' in the mix '.
And delusional managers.' We would have won 3-0, (after losing 5-0 ) if we had defended better '. Really? So whose fault is that then? And ' We are looking for a result'. I though every game ended in a result? And solid defending has now become 'parking the bus in front of goal'.
But then those in and connected with football have never exactly been University graduates in English grammar have they?
Complain about this comment
@ 37.
I blame David Beckham for the rise and rise of 'for me'. I'm sure it was hardly ever heard until he went to Real Madrid. Spanish people say 'para mi' a lot and this translation seems to have crept in to beckham's lexicon and now everyone else in football.
For me, lawro is the werst offender (by the way).
Complain about this comment
Yes Steve how DARE you spark conversation on a blog by asking questions instead of just looking them up?
It seems quite simple to me - if you don't like the topic stop wasting your time reading and then replying to it. Go and make youself feel superior somewhere else.
Personally I think David Pleat has a tendancy to talk complete rubbish (no offence intended) or to state the bleeding obvious.
I love most cliches (game of two halves etc), having its own language makes football unique and I think is part of the reason many people love it.
I also would love to know where 'stonewall penalty comes from though. Any ideas anyone?
Complain about this comment
skilful black players are always termed 'unpredictable', but surely if their always unpredictable doesn't that make them predictable?
Complain about this comment
Good commentator? Barry Davies.
Worst cliche. ' At this moment in time'. You mean this moment can occur outside of time and/or a moment isn't connected with time?
What is meant of course is, ' at this moment ' or ' at this time '.
Perhaps a very bad cliche should be described as a Kinnearism?
Complain about this comment
Some of the criticisms on here are incredible.
Of course Steve could have researched it if he wanted to, but he was posting it as a topic for people to discuss and debate. Some of the patronising responses will probably make him think twice about doing that in the future.
Give the commentators a break. We all have our favourites and ones that we don't like. But believe me as somebody who did a little bit of radio commentary a few years ago - it is very difficult. It's not always possible to analyse and prepare everything perfectly, you just have to react to what goes on in the game. You have a split second to come up with an explanation.
I personally think the standard on the BBC is pretty good, some of the Five Live guys are especially excellent.
And I generally enjoy Steve's blogs. But if I don't I just move on. I don't here and pretend to be some great scholar and criticise him.
Some people just love to moan.
Complain about this comment
I can't understand why there are so many people complaining about this blog and the apparent lack of commentators education.
How boring would this blog have been if Steve Wilson simply put; "I always wondered what 'no quarter asked or given meant', but I went on Google and found out and now I know."
I can also pretty much guarantee that there are phrases and words in usage that people will not have heard before, and as such not know the definition.
Personally I thought this was an interesting blog, and I've learnt some things from it and also re-affirmed knowledge
Complain about this comment
I think #67 might be off his meds, sorry Steve on his behalf!
Sparking a debate and asking questions to give your readership a chance to show their own knowledge is a million times better than google-ing the answer so leave the stroppy lad to spit his dummy. Probably bored at home unable to get to school due to the snow so has no other children to validate his existance by laughing at his disruptive influence.
Phew, that took some typing! *gets down off soapbox*
Either way, top one Steve. Nothing wrong with giving some of us who have loads of useless facts and knowledge to share a chance to share them!
Complain about this comment
Nice article Steve - refreshing and different and debate-stimulating - all articles should be!
I always love the descriptions of turf-skimmers/daisey cutter balls - Sean Lock did an excellent piece on other terms that could be used such as 'worm murder/groundy-rolly-goal/molescuffer'! Although you don't tend to hear them that often recently.
Another one for me is 'the shot cannons back of the WOODWORK'? Please clarify for me, as I may be just a little wanting for knowledge in this relatively niche area but, are the goals actually made of wood (still)? Surely not with the amount of relative flexibility in the crossbar from a thumping drive; 'the crossbar is still shaking from that effort'? Presumed they were reinforced plastic/metal composite? (Somewhat piccy, but it's something that I'm wondering about now).
One that I don't really like, but is massively subjective dependent upon your taste preference is; 'that's an absolute PEACH of a goal.' Peaches are okay, don't get me wrong - but they're probably not most peoples favourites? Maybe they are - I dunno! :)
Also, references to 'SWEEPING balls' - are we watching Fantasia here? Not sure the balls actually clean/collect/clear anything along their route. :)
On the whole though, I like the cliches. As long as they are not too overly used - I agree cetain commentators stick to them more than others and it can be frustrating - but on the whole it gives the game and the commentary a certain level of character that would be a shame to miss out on. Particularly in the age where comparatively prohibitive television rights for 3:00pm games means so many people rely on radio commentary, such occasional use of cliches can bring an otherwise drab game to life or make you wonder how eccentric/random can one commentator be (ahem - Stuart Hall - so unique!).
Before I cease the tangential raving...can anyone tell me where 'Derby' comes from - as in, 'the North London Derby' this weekend? Obviously I am aware of the horse race (its only 2 miles from me) but looking at dictionary definitions they seem to link either to that horse race OR to a felt, stiff brimmed hat?! Unless this was something to do with the period of the origin of the word to mean a game where lots of people would turn out (and the average person would therefore wear a ''derby'? Can anyone help here?
Complain about this comment
Commentary wise we have a big disagreement in my house every time the snooker is on... I quite enjoy the musings of Virgo, Taylor, Thorne and Griffiths but the wife hates them. In particular she thinks John Virgo never talks anything but total poop-deck (the way we swear around our young daughter!)
Just the way it is I guess, some people think it enhances a game having an insight and observations from respected former pro's, some people should just mute the TV or give me back the remote and go make my coffee! Who's with me? hahaha
Complain about this comment
#77 - some excellent ones in there! Woodwork is from the fact that goals used to made of wood I would guess, but then you had probably guessed that yourself. But sweeping ball is grand and PEACH is fantastic! Anyone any idea's on that one? Also pearler is used (although a lot more at parks level where I am) and I don't have a jar'o'glue about that one either!
Complain about this comment
Nice one Steve; light the touch-paper and stand well back
Complain about this comment
#80
Cheers - the whole 'blue touch paper' thing was the other I was going to mention but forgot!
What is that all about? Think I heard an explanation way back don't remember it - although I'm sure if someone comes up with the same explanation I'd remember it!
***
#79
Cheers too! :)
:)
Complain about this comment
Headed goals always seem to fall into two categories: bullet or glancing. I used to hate this, but I find a bizarre pleasure in hearing the phrases trotted out.
Complain about this comment
RE: #77
Quite a few old footballing expressions have held out since the early days.
I still hear and read reporters who use the expression "turned on a sixpence", and, of course, since we went metric, should we really be referring to the game as having a six-yard box etc etc.
Just to digress slightly from English expressions that have gone on to become football expressions, are there many that BEGAN in football and are now used in every day life? I understand "Back to Square One" stems from football radio commentary.
To end, I dabbled with radio journalism twice in the Chasetown FA Cup run of 2005. I was reporting for Radio WM for the Chasetown v Blyth Spartans replay and I was so excited at Chasetown's winner through Karl Edwards that I said, "The cross came from the left wing, I have no idea who from, and, frankly, I don't care!" :)
Complain about this comment
72. At 4:15pm on 06 Feb 2009, jay842 wrote:
skilful black players are always termed 'unpredictable', but surely if their always unpredictable doesn't that make them predictable?
__________________________
Can we then agree (or agree to disagree) that these skilful black players you speak of are 'predictably unpredictable'?
I actually hadn't noticed that they are 'always' given this description, but I daresay you're right about this.
Complain about this comment
"Nice one Steve; light the touch-paper and stand well back"
OR, expose your ignorance asking a question an english lit graduate should be able to answer in his sleep...
this is ridiculous! one of the staple phrases of football commentary, and the guy has no idea what it means - and devotes a whole column to asking it...
that said - these phrases are to the enrichment of all commentary. they turn it from a description into a language far more potent and descriptive than if would be otherwise. 'breaks/rides the tackle' is a lovely phrase. as is 'goalmouth scramble' - alliterative and conjures up the image perfectly.
for all that, the commentators need to have a grasp and understanding of the language they speak.
Complain about this comment
Re: #24 - you are not alone. If you watch some of the older sports TV coverage, you'll notice that the commentators said a lot less back then than they do now because the action spoke for itself. I think Richie Benaud said that this was one of his golden rules - sometimes less is more. I wish that more TV commentators these days followed that advice.
As for #78, I agree with your wife about John Virgo!
Complain about this comment
Not really a cliche but the use of the superlative when there are only two teams playing I find incredibly irritating.
This is not confined to football commentators, you are likely to hear it in almost all sports.
Are they simply ignorant or just lazy?
Complain about this comment
'Slide rule pass' - now don't get me wrong, but when was the last time you saw one of them?, and the footballers of today are surely too young to have ever seen one. Should update it to a "Casio N50 calculator function 15 pass"
"He cut through the defence like a knife through butter" - now pardon me, but I keep my butter in the fridge and there ain't nothing that the commentator says that could be more wrong than that one.
and what about, 'turn on a sixpence' - turn on the light or the kettle yes, but a sixpence !!!
Maybe I have some kind of Sid Wadell fixation, but commentaries would be a lot more colourful if they brought the language back down to earth where the regular fans reside. Forget the cliches and start using the language of the pub vault, where a lot of the fans would watch the match on TV.
"Tevez again, running around like a blue armed fly" - talking of which, does anybody know where that came from?
I can't really beech though because I have been watching the football for the last 12 or so years in Thailand, so I have been spared the likes of Andy Gray thankfully.
Personally think we should try to come up with an original saying of our own for Steve to use on all of his commentaries and see if it gets adopted into the mainstream - anybody have any starters for ten?
Complain about this comment
Where on earth does "early doors" come from? I believe it was Ron Atkinson who introduced it and others now use it but what does it mean?
I also wonder why managers don't take a look at the fixture list and, if they're scheduled to play one of the"big 4", ask the FA to change the fixture to another day. How many times have you heard a manager, or player, say after a game, "on another day we would have won that game".
Hansen, Lawrenson and particularly Shearer have all "seen them given" when asked about contentious decisions. These guys are paid, quite hansomely i'm sure, to give their opinions and yet they come up with that!
Martin Tyler's insistence on shouting the surname of any player who has an attempt at goal. Andy Gray constantly reminding us, "i have to say", David Pleats attempts at pronouncing names such as "Shimbomba".
In spite of all of the above, i keep coming back for more.
Complain about this comment
The most ingratiating and almost obsequious cringe making commentaries and interviews I find however is in athletics and tennis. ( Sue Barker ) The exceptions being the terrific Michael Johnson and Mc Enroe. Especially with the the long distance runners and especially Paula Ratcliffe. Some of the unimaginative and repetitive questions and comments begger belief.
But remember the great 'Coleman balls '.
Such as I remember, when an athlete at an Olympics made a break down the back straight for the finish, DC said , ' there's no turning back now'.
Complain about this comment
how about every player who scores the adjective has the same letter i.e. Rooney rams it in or Lampard lumps it in to the goal or again Berbatov bungs it home. it would make me laugh
Complain about this comment
bpwmanu wrote:
"Tevez again, running around like a blue armed fly"
It's a blue arsed fly. And as anyone familiar with flies knows. that's what they have. Except the green ones of course.
'turn on a sixpence' , means to turn in a small circumference not on or off.
And of course as anyone familiar with the catering profession knows butter kept in the fridge is more easily cut with a Knife. Even a blunt one.
Complain about this comment
"Riding their luck" always sounds like a strange get-out phrase. Visions of horses being geed up in the final furlongs of the grand national don't really go with footy. When used in an unrelenting goal-mouth bombardment, you can excuse the poor commentator, who is reaching for any old words while inwardly sure that a goal is bound to happen any minute. But when used by a summariser? No excuse. You've had time to think about it.
Complain about this comment
The ones that kills me, they make the pitch bigger, or the pitch is very big. I thought the pitch was a standard legal size so I just get confused when I hear both of these.
Incidently since the article was written Ronglish site can't be accessed, not enough band width ( of pitch), apparently his football park is smaller than all the others. Oh and number 93? better your luck than your missus.
Complain about this comment
Don't let us let the print journos escape cliche criticism.
Football managers must have become birds at times when they 'swoop' for a player they have bought. Do they perch on the stand roof I wonder?
And angry managers/players never seem to reply to criticism, they 'hit back' or ' roar '.
And I wonder if a player ever gets blistered feet after he has worked his socks off?
Complain about this comment
Re 71
Hear, Hear,
football language while lacking grammatical prowess is nonetheless hugely entertaining; i for one would like to have Chris Kamara narrating my daily life: 'Oh...hes done it! !Unbelievable scenes! hes managed to get the bus to work!! And the Driver has change!!! back to you...'
(Off topic but....Hear Hear? Explanation anybody?)
Complain about this comment
Some people really need to get out more!!
Isn't this supposed to be a forum for discussing the beautiful game, not moaning like a bunch of....
I personally love watching the game with the sound on, can't think why anyone would want to watch a silent match...
In reference to the Gaelic Games commentator - I remember a commentator from quite a few years back describing a Ryan Giggs run and cross for Mark Hughes to score from as "Like a mini trying to catch a Porsche...and there's the Rolls Royce waiting in the middle!"
Mark Hughes a Rolls Royce? A damn fine striker, but never as beautiful as a Roller!!
Recently there's been a mass influx of articles/reporters using "Wotte" to replace "what a..." Highly original!! Now if only they were refering to a win.......
Complain about this comment
I've skipped a few posts between #70 and the 90s so forgive me if I cover anything that has already been said!
I've noticed that commentators/pundits/analysts are increasingly using the words 'absolute' or 'absolutely' to start off a sentence which grammatically doesn't require the need for the said words. Just watch Soccer Saturday every week and count how many times they say it.... it has always amused me.
Another thing from SS.... Jeff Stelling's use of the word 'squeak' for example "...and now to the game at Ewood. Do Blackburn have a squeak of a chance of getting something in the dying minutes?" Where did this come from!
Also I heard in one game when Don Goodman was co-commentator... "...and they owe him a grat of debtitude for saving them." lol!
Stonewall has only really crept in over the last 10 years or so I seem to remember.... I guess it means that a stonewall is perceived to be a sure fire thing, i.e. set in stone, meaning the penalty was certain and fully justified.... a stonewaller. I also remember Alan Hansen calling an FA Cup tie a few years back as a potential 'potato skin' for one of the bigger sides.... Lineker pulled him up on it straight away saying he'd only ever heard it being called a 'banana skin'!
I agree Clive Tyledsley is the most annoying commentator.... his jokes are never funny and he says THE most obvious things that don't need to be pointed out.
Motty is a legend in his own way..... it amuses me the way he says 'Drogbarrr'.
Martin Tyler and Peter Brackley are the best commentators imo.... Peter Brackley always reminds me of Serie A, he would be good on the BBC.
Andy Gray comes out with some stuff too.... "Sen....sational!" ...and from the 2000 FA Cup semi final between Chelsea and Newcastle when Rob Lee crosses for their equaliser "...and Rob Lee, not even given a numbahh!" ...always makes me laugh because he says it in reference to Lee's omission from Gullit's squad listings at the beginning of that season.
A cliche Alan Shearer has used a number of times is "If you don't buy a ticket, you won't win the raffle."
Lawro has used '..absolutely no hope for them" a few times.... whenever me or my brother say this in a normal conversation we say it in Lawro's accent!
The other one is Andy Townsend saying 'Time and time again" at least once or twice in each programme he does!
Complain about this comment
Comfortable on the ball
2 banks of four
Straight out of the top drawer
put in a good shift
worked his socks off
That'll hurt in the morning
heading toward row Z
Complain about this comment
ESPN's Derek Rae always enjoys calling out first,middle and last names after a spectacular play e.g Ivan Ramiro Cordoba.
Complain about this comment
Print journalists are the best.
Each season sees a "wantaway striker" issuing a "come and get me plea" for a club to "swoop", only to find his own club issuing "a hands-off warning". The striker wants to leave because, of course, "he's become a target for the boo-boys".
Marvellous.
Complain about this comment
A fair amount of vitriol here from a number of first time posters (who have clearly taken time off from their day jobs as dedicated and gifted linguists, etymologists and lexiconographers).
We are honoured by your attention to the lowly blog, but seriously, is it really worth the effort?!
I'd just say it's just a bit embarrassing for Steve that he hadn't worked it out and leave it there...
Complain about this comment
The classic footballing cliche is the mangled simile "As sick as a parrot," coined by Danny Blanchflower one Wednesday evening on Sportsnight way back when. It makes me "sick as a DOG" every time I hear it.
Other cliches that grate are:
"Set out their stall"
"Early doors" (What the F@*K does that really mean!? You can use the F word on the BBC now, because I heard it this morning on "Breakfast")
Every time a pundit or footballer pluralises a club or player, eg "the Beckhams of this world," "the Chelseas, Liverpools et al"
Complain about this comment
Potential banana skin
Complain about this comment
If this was a boxing match, the fight would've been stopped in the first round
Complain about this comment
One thing I never understood was why
Scottish football analysts,commentators etc say "tonight in goals is Gomes". Goal is a singular word so surely it should be "tonight in goal is Gomes". One classic from DerekDougan many years ago was "the ball should have went into the net". They don't make them like that anymore. Oh yes they do - Chris Waddle - Love you Chris.
Complain about this comment
'Football is a game of two halves" - is it a cliche indeed?
I wonder that nobody says that sometimes football is a game of four halves too. It's still not a cliche.
Complain about this comment
#103
From AskOxford - http://www.askoxford.com/worldofwords/wordfrom/idioms/
"Early doors"
early doors early on, especially in a game or contest. British informal
Apparently this expression arose with reference to a period of admission to a music hall ending some time before the start of the performance and giving a better choice of seats.
This is a good subject for a blog because we all have our favourite (or most vexing) turns of phrase, but I'm still a bit surprised you didn't just look the original expression up, Steve. We could still have talked about the subject, y'know...
Complain about this comment
Oh, and I wish that before any commentator is allowed to make their first broadcast they have to sit in a classroom and have the difference between irony and coincidence explained to them...
Complain about this comment
Love clichés, absolutely love 'em.
They should be embraced and treasured. Not just for the fascinating history and origin many of them have. But also for the fact that, despite many of them being nonsensical, they are short hand forms of communication. It is often elegant and most impressive that we instantly know what 'someone is getting at' when they use them.
I suspect many posters here secretly love these much maligned phrases too ; )
Complain about this comment
Steve, you have my mercy (or is that quarter?), I'm an English Language graduate and if I do not instantly know the etmology of a word I'm lambasted!
Complain about this comment
When was "3 points for a win" introduced? A "relegation six-pointer" sounds right, but I don't remember a "relegation four-pointer".
Complain about this comment
#85 Juninhowept - I think if you are going to pull up people like Steve on his knowledge of the english language you may want to check the meaning of a word like 'alliterative' before applying it to goalmouth scramble...
Some more top drawer efforts coming out here tho - some of them not so much cliches but still great phrases with little meaning... Perhaps if I had mastered 'turning on a sixpence' I would be playing at a higher level these days!
So Steve - what do you think to the suggestion earlier of starting your own? It could catch on... All being well you could even end up with it reaching as far as 'back to square 1' from the original FA Cup final radio broadcast... well maybe not but surely your friends on here can find you one better than anything that Alan Shearer spouts? Awesome player - rubbish pundit!
Complain about this comment
What about a " cynical " foul ? A phrase used by every single commentator, none of whom know what " cynical " actually means.
Complain about this comment
One that really irritates me is when someone "hails" the performance/ability of a player. What the hell is that all about?
Complain about this comment
I think people are being a bit hard on you about the 'no quarter' thing Steve as they are getting it wrong! Quarter has come to mean mercy but it is actually an old naval saying stemming from the part of the ship known as the quarterdeck. When boarded in battle the officers of the losing side might ask for 'quarter', literally meaning the chance to end the battle and return to the quarterdeck, the part of the ship where the officers could be found when on duty.
Complain about this comment
Great blog, and some great posts. A thoroughly enjoyable read.
After a while, I just had John Cleese in my mind saying "I hit the ball and there it was in the back of the net."
Football and cliches are a match made in heaven in my book, and I'm obviously not alone. The memorable 'small boys in the park, jumpers for goalposts' catchphrase bought to us by Paul Whitehouse struck a chord with many because it was just the type of guff that some analysts trot out.
So Steve, perhaps you should adopt a couple, just as your own personal signature. JM had his sheepskin coat, you could have a couple of funny cliches. I'm sure that the guys here will help you choose...
My own personal fav is 'Row Z'. Cracks me up every time.
Complain about this comment
Go to Youtube and ask "Hot for Words", she might be able to find out for you
Complain about this comment
#62, you need to work on your own reading comprehension before teeing off on Steve. He was making a joke about a colleague who says "if my memory serves me..." when in fact he is reading off a sheet of notes, not relying on his memory at all. Clearer?
Feel free to apologize to Steve...
Complain about this comment
Brass monkeys: despite what the poster above said, it's nothing to do with naval ships and piles of cannonballs. In fact, it's one of those phrases with dozens of purported explanations, but nobody knows where its real origin.
Complain about this comment
before launching an attack on steve and his fellow commentators spare a thought for hugh john's and his (not so) immortal words at the end of the 1966 world cup final:
"Here's Hurst, he might make it three. He has! He has... so that's it. That is IT!"
Complain about this comment
what about the following
eye of the needle pass
killer ball
oh, you beauty (andy gray - it's not a woman)
it's unbelievable Jeff (chris kamara)
Complain about this comment
the term 'gained a yard of pace' is in reference to cricket, where, depending on the pace of the bowler, the wicket keeper stands closer to, or further away from, the wicket.
as the bowler gets quicker, the wicketkeeper stand further away - hence the term, gained a yard of pace
Complain about this comment
#120 czetie -
Sorry mate, think you are way off. I had heard that before too, and its an awesome saying! Any of these 'dozens of explanations' either make as much sense or just fit so well?
Complain about this comment
Good grief, having just google-d the phrase I could be here for hours looking at that one! Plenty of people disputing the cannonball theory (thats not John Grishams new book is it?) but no-one seems to be offering a decent alternative... Really interesting for anyone else who is bored!
Complain about this comment
24 - What I yearn for is to have the match streamed with minimal commentary (actually the comments from people like Paul Merson would do me) and to have subtitles for the chants.
Living in Australia I only get to see a couple of matches live a season, and was lucky enough to be at Old Trafford for the Man U Chelsea game. The banter from the crowd was fantastic - you get none of this on the TV.
I watched the Liverpool Chelsea game on a big screen back in Australia - afterwards the blogs from the Liverpool fans kept referring to the great atmosphere - but almost nothing of this came over in the transmission.
Complain about this comment
stick to commentary, this is pointless
Complain about this comment
#120
as this is the replaying of information i have heard regarding the explanation of the "brass monkey" expression, if it has offended you i must say
"Oh, I'm sorry, sir. I'm anispeptic, frasmotic, even compunctuous to have caused you such pericombobulation."
Complain about this comment
oh and where did the expression "2 pennies worth" come from
Complain about this comment
Could I recommend Brewers Dictionary of Phrase and Fable. It's a rich source of the origins of sayings used in the English language.
This and Webster's Dictionary, as mentioned by jonners6 in #1, as well as any good Oxford volume of quotations, should be on the bookshelf of any serious writer or correspondent.
Complain about this comment
I have to say my favourite cliche is "an inch either side of the goalkeeper and that would have been a goal". They may as well say, "if that shot was hit at the goal and the keeper didn't save it would have been a goal".
Complain about this comment
The phrase "a game of two halves" came about in the 18thC when, after the industrial revolution, trains allowed schools to travel around the country and play against eachother.
However, because at the time there was no F.A. and therefore no set rules, schools had their own individual sets of rules. When the schools then played eachother, they played the first half under one school's set of rules, and the second half under the other set of rules, hence the phrase "a game of two halves." Now, however, it has been adapted and as we all know it means when there is a different dominant team in each half.
Complain about this comment
When watching Champions League games, my son and I try to predict at what time the commentator will utter his first boxing analogy and how many he will come up with in the course of the game - phrases such as 'up against the ropes' 'thrown in the towel' 'if this was a boxing match, the referee would have stopped it by now' 'ahead on points' etc (which, incidentally, could be regarded as a cliche for 'I can't think of anymore examples'.)
Complain about this comment
At the end of the day, it was a must win game against a team that's very strong on paper. We knuckled down, stepped up to the plate, pulled our socks up and faced the music.
There are no easy games out there. Full credit to the opposition though, they dug deep and at times we were at sixes and sevens.
I'd have been as sick as a parrot, and on another day things could've been different. It was a stonewall penalty and there are no easy games.
Complain about this comment
Not so much a commentator's cliche, but a piece of advice often shouted to another player in park football when the ball is rolling towards him:
"Kick it!"
William Webb Ellis obviously either ignored or didn't receive that piece of advice.
Complain about this comment
The one i cant stand is the plurualising?(is that a word) of players names, I.E, This is when you want your Gerrard's,Lampard's etc to step up, There is only 1 player with that name on the pitch so why make out there are more???
Complain about this comment
Personalities play a part. Let's not pretend that every sentence we utter in our lives is unique. We're far more tolerant of commentators/pundits we like, and pounce on anything that someone we dont like says. for instance, Garth crooks has taken a bashing on some posts, but i love how seriously he takes it all!
However i cant stand mark bright. i have no idea why someone who cannot speak coherently is allowed on tv. i'm sure off air he's a lovely guy, but he speaks so quickly on air he's always tripping over his words! They stopped him presenting pretty quickly, but they really should have got rid of him.
David Pleat is the worst however, and has been for many years. apart from obviously saying everyones name wrong, he mixes up his cliches and metaphors, and as for his attempts at humour...
Here are a couple of dead certs on footy focus: Les Ferdinand will constantly say "without a shadow of a doubt", and Mark Lawrenson will say every team (apart from any really stranded at the bottom) will be "fine".
Complain about this comment
Hey Steve,
Great blog because it's different to the usual debates fuelled by the past week's incidents. Offers a longer term debate. To add my own part I would like to agree with the numerous 'posters' who have been grumbling about David Pleat and Ron Atkinson. I tend to find that The ITV commentary tends to favour the 'bigger clubs'; Manchester United seem to get mentioned regardless of who is playing. The commentary seemed more slanted towards Liverpool than Everton (not saying Everton are smaller than Liverpool eh Rafa?!) but there always seems to be that edge towards the more lucrative clubs or players. When Tottenham played ManUre in the last round of the cup they opened with all talk of Utd, including an interview with Christiano the winker Ronaldo, and metioned very little f the opposition.
The bbc's coverage of football seems a lot less biased than this, do you think its because ITV are selling themselves to the most fans possible?
Its a funny old game...
Complain about this comment
As already said, "Give no quarter" or "No quarter will be given, or taken" are military terms used to say "no mercy". It's been used by the British army for hundreds of years. So, it makes sense it being used to describe a football game, albeit a little loosely.
There are a few however that either infuriate me or baffle me. The old adage of "Sick as a parrot" makes no sense whatsoever and I've always wondered it's meaning. Commentators and pundits are getting worse with their poor use of the English language and overused metaphors. Clive "Picking his pocket" Tyldsley being a prime example. Or Jamie Redknapp failing to grasp the meaning of the term "literally". I know their sportsman and not scholars, but they at least should refrain from using words they don't understand. Also, I have yet to come across an 'expert' who understands the meaning of irony. A player scoring against his old club is not 'ironic', nor is a player scoring against a team in sequence after a long goal drought.
Alan Shearer is getting better as a pundit, but he doesn't have any cutting edge or bring up any new points. Also, Martin Keown has nothing interesting to say, Lee Dixon seems to purely be a bringer of bad news while Mark Bright is often incoherent. They've had Graham Murty on Focus a few times and he looks more terrified of the cameras then anything else. Even Graeme Le Saux, a fairly well spoken and intelligent man, contributes little. There's a huge lack of 'experts' saying something new of original. Maybe the BBC could hire Eamonn Dumphy to make things more interesting.
Also, the poor language is annoying. When Leonardo (at the last world cup) speaks fluent English he puts the British born pundits to shame. Somebody sort it out, please?
Complain about this comment
I think Nigel Blackwell (he of Half Man Half Biscuit fame) said it best in the song 'Keeping Two Chevrons Apart"
Apart from on commentary,
Where else on Earth,
Can you hear the word 'Aplomb' being used?
Motty uses it, suprisingly often :oD
Complain about this comment
Oh, I love this...
Re: 139
When LeSaux'sLeftFootedHandshake wrote...
"Also, the poor language is annoying."
... I wonder if he'd proofread his own post?
"I know their sportsman and not scholars,"
Sorry, I thoroughly agree with the rest of your post, but couldn't resist pointing that one out ;o)
Complain about this comment
How about the phrase 'very average' to mean poor. As a Boro fan, I'd be delighted if we reached the 'dizzy heights' (oops, I've found another one) of average, we'd get a nose bleed (there I go again)
Complain about this comment
Can anybody tell me why 'deflections' in football are invariably 'wicked deflections', yet in cricket, they are only 'slight'.
Complain about this comment
"Oh, I love this...
Re: 139
When LeSaux'sLeftFootedHandshake wrote...
"Also, the poor language is annoying."
... I wonder if he'd proofread his own post?
"I know their sportsman and not scholars,"
Sorry, I thoroughly agree with the rest of your post, but couldn't resist pointing that one out ;o)"
***
Yeah, thanks for that. Guess I got stung. Should be "they're sportsman..."
Thank you for your vigilance, Rob. It's a tough job, but someone has to do it.
Complain about this comment
Talk about cliches in football? Lawro's predictions on this very website are the worst. In fact, I got so tired of their predictability, I emailed the Beeb recently to point out how predictable they were:
0-0: Lawro doesn't like this score, as it puts people off MOTD. Although not as much as Alan Shearer's presence. So he rations its use to half a dozen results a season. Which is about a fifth of the normal amount for a league. It comes out when a "proper footballing side, Gary" who "can lack a cutting edge up front, Gary" (Lawro "struggles to see where their goals are going to come from, Gary") play a team who are "a big physical presence, Gary" and "so solid defensively, Gary". Unless either team are currently in the top four (see 2-0, 0-2).
1-0, 0-1: Lawro doesn't like these ones either. They sounds boring. Predictable even. Reserved for two types of matches. On the one hand, those between teams currently residing in the lower half of the table who (unsurprisingly given their league position) are having a bad run. This game will be predicted as "a scrappy win with little for the neutral". A home win is the default position, but 1-0 will become 0-1 for any of the reasons 2-1 becomes 1-2 (see below). On the other hand, Everton's home games against Man Utd, Chelsea or Arsenal will finish with a single goal. Later, on MOTD, Lawro will sigh and say, "on another day, Gary, they could've scored 5 or 6, the number of chances they created". But such goal tallies are never predicted...
1-1: Lawro's warming up now but don't get excited. 1-1 will only be used in certain circumstances: Games between the "Big Four", local derbys (except the manchester derby, because Man Utd always win 2-0 or 0-2) or a recently departed manager returning to his old club with his new club.
2-0 or 0-2: Lawro's favourite score. Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool win all their games 2-0 or 0-2, unless they are playing each other or Everton who are "so solid defensively, Gary", so it'll only be 1-0... Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool will never win, home or away, anywhere other than Everton by scoring one goal and not conceding any. That is a Lawro prediction fact. 2-0 and 0-2 are also used for the other "big teams" (usually villa, spurs, everton, newcastle) when they play newly promoted sides. Lawro will later illuminate how this has happened with the following dazzling insight: the winning team had "too much quality for them, Gary" or, if slightly exasperated, were "just better footballers, Gary".
2-1, 1-2: For traditionally mid-table teams playing each other: Spurs, Manchester City, Villa, Newcastle, Blackburn, Bolton, Wigan, Fulham, Portsmouth, West Ham, Middlesbrough etc etc etc. If the away team are more than 5 places above the home team, or have a new manager, or have had "two or three wins on the bounce now, Gary" (even against lower or non- league opposition in a cup and those who will be "lucky to avoid the drop, Gary" because they "are in big big trouble, Gary"), or have made a significant signing, that home win will turn to an away win...
2-2: This is a special scoreline. Really special. It is only ever predicted for those games which involve the four clubs who "play attacking football, Gary" but "leave themselves so open at the back, Gary": Spurs, West Ham, Newcastle and Manchester City. In the world of Lawro's predicitions, no other clubs are capable of scoring and conceding two goals in the same game. It simply cannot happen.
Other scores: There will never be more than 4 goals in any football match. That is a fact.
Complain about this comment
Good point of Lawro's predictions. I wish just once he would say "Oh f___ it!" and just go nuts. Even if it's just on the final day. I remember a few years ago when someone on this board correctly predicted that Liverpool would beat Birmingham 7-1 away in the FA Cup, which is a fair stretch but a redeemed one. I'm pretty sure Lawrensen's prediction would have been 2-0 with a comment on how Birmingham would fight hard, but that Liverpool would have too much class for them.........Gary.
Complain about this comment
Steve, how about seeing if you can fit "up there with the floodlights/seagulls" for a shot that is way over the bar, or describing a shot that is really wide as a "corner flag worrier" - my best efforts so far unfortunately :(
Many thanks for posting the topic though - I used it today as the core discussion for my English class with my Thai students - possibly would have worked better had it not been 28 girls and only 3 lads in class, but saved me having to do any work :)
Homework is for them to note down any sayings the Thai commentators have; May be interesting to note whether any of the cliches have made it across the waters, or, then again, maybe it won't, but it's all water under the bridge for me, living in a glass house, saving nine.
#128 - loved the Black Adder reference ;)
Complain about this comment
I can't believe I've just wasted 2 minutes of my day reading an entire blog by a 'reporter' who is basically using hundeds of words asking what 'quarter' means.
I can only conclude he is having a laugh and stringing us along...except there is no punchline.
Please God don't tell me Steve is getting paid for this?
I don't know what else to say, I'm astounded.
I hope BBC bosses show Mr Wilson no quarter when his contract comes up for renewal.
Complain about this comment
#148
"I hope BBC bosses show Mr. Wilson no quarter when his contract comes up for renewal"
Forgive me for my pedantics, but are you trying to infer that the BBC pay their employees in the US currency as opposed to in pounds sterling?
Complain about this comment
obdurate now who uses that in real life
well documented another phrase that seems to be taught on the training ground.
cliches on the whole are good fun use as many as you can as long as the intention is ironic!
Complain about this comment
I feel sorry for Steve Wilson. The comments explaining the real meaning of 'giving quarter' say enough. Steve Coppell was so often ridiculed for being a 'graduate' footballer. All this seems to show the lack of education and wisdom throughout football. There is no real reason for it and football would benefit from having it...Reading seem to be doing well with it right now!
Complain about this comment
one that amazes me is when a commentator says "he struck it too clean", "he hit that too well", or "he couldn't have got any closer" when a player misses by the narrowest of margins. well obviously he could, it might have actually hit the target! apart from that one that irritates, most of the others just make me laugh
Complain about this comment
I'm surprised no-one's mentioned these yet - a couple of my favourites:
1) "He'll take this with his favourite left foot..." How many left feet does a professional footballer have to choose from?
2) In a similar vein..."back heel" - since when was anyone's heel at the front of their foot?
Complain about this comment
The quarter thing is used in the film Rob Roy before they swordfight, referring to the fact that neither side will be able to ask for a reprieve, or give it to the other. The first response/explanation is the best.
I'm increasingly starting to believe what my dad said about press conferences and interviews being pointless exercises in cliche and footballing bluster. Everyone is so terrified of the media that no-one is really prepared to criticise anyone else for fear of their comments being blown up out of all proportion. As a result, the media are forced to turn metaphorical mole-hills into mountains, and the smallest comment now is turned into a headline. It's a vicious circle.
Stop talking to these footballers and managers, and let's just discuss what happened on the pitch and imagine what they might be thinking. It'll be far more entertaining than what they are told to say by their spin doctors.
Complain about this comment
Andy-Bloody-Gray
Everytime the ball flies, dribbles or bounces into the net...
"I told ya, I told ya! What did I say?" followed by a steaming heap of bostful diatribe about how he pointed out the bleeding obvious 2 minutes before.
This kind of veers away from cliche usage but while we're talking football talk, what about David "what am I doing commentating football matches" Pleat? He constantly mumbles or mispronounces footballers' names. How does he still have a job?
Complain about this comment
ORIGIN OF STONEWALL PENALTY
The origin of this phrase is an example of an ignorant mistake made by an ex-footballer-pundit that was simply copied by other pundits, and crucially, Jeff Stelling of Sky Sports, and also crucially, crossed channels to gain, if that is the right word, general usage.
The mistake - as far as I can surmise - is to take the golf term 'stone-dead', given to a stroke that falls so close the hole that it almost impossible to miss the next (at which point the stroke, a putt, is conceded to the striker by his or her opponent), and (mis-)apply it to an infringement in a football match that should result in a penalty award. The common denominator is 'certainty:' certain holing of the putt; certain penalty.
One day, someone such as Charlie Nicholas on the Sky Soccer Saturday panel, in trying to convey such a certainty, came out with, 'it's a stone-wall penalty, Jeff' by mistake.
An unlikely explanation?
I haven't heard of a better one, and because the phrase makes no sense whatsoever, a stone wall being, well, a wall made of stone, and therefore is a complete non-fit as a suitable metaphor here, this is the only logical explanation my poor suffering brain can produce.
If anyone has a more accurate explanation, I'd love you to post it here, because I'm writing a book on the language of football at the mo. and intend to include this daft, stupid, thoroughly irritating, cack-mouthed blunder therein.
RRR
Complain about this comment
there's so many....... some might have been mentioned but some annoying ones are:
"shoot on sight"- fairly new this, usually about Frank Lampard.
"damage limitation"- seems another new one we hear very often now.
"two banks of four" - 4-4-2 formation
but for me David Pleat is by far the most annoying commentator, he feels the need to over explain everything and give an in depth look at most players history, players names he gets wrong is annoying too.
"drogbaa" is his worst effort.
Complain about this comment
Brass monkeys - as stated no-one is quite sure where it comes from but the cannonballs has been ruled out. Basically there is and never was a brass item called a monkey for storing cannonballs. However ships for a while did have a small gun used for signalling, made of different metals in extreme cold it may contract at different rates and fall apart. Cold enough indeed to freeze the two mounting points off, indeed cold enough to freeze the ears off a brass monkey. Seems to have changed to balls in the 19th century because A) people are crude and B) even then no-one knew where it came from so felt free to change it.
Feel free to correct me.
I had assumed a yard of pace refered to the distanced travelled by two people over a set point of time. The quicker would have travelled a yard more, and so have a yard more pace?
The "six-pointer" is a good one though, when it was points for a win did anyone say "four pointer"?
Complain about this comment
Great article, I love hearing sports cliches, if people have such problems with commentators indulging in cliches what about the rest of the media, public, and of course politicians who all spout cliches at the 'drop of a hat'?.
People in glasshouses and all that !!.
Complain about this comment
maybe not a cliche but the one expression i hate is when footballers and managers say:
'at the end of the day'
meaning: we were absolute sh*te but we scraped through
Complain about this comment
Cliche plays left wing-back for Arsenal, I love it when the commentators pronounce his name like he is a hackneyed phrase.
Complain about this comment
Sitting down to watch match of the day 2 and I wasn't shocked to see the north east derby second.
What I was shocked to see was after the build up by Adrian, we seen a very short match will the minimal thrown together.
It never showed the passion, the hard hitting tackles, the arguments... everything that you would expect to find in a derby match.
Even then, in post match analysis, the only thing the BBC did was laugh at Steven Taylor, which they did last time also.
I've noticed the amount of bias in the BBC when it comes to the top four, but I thought this would have been different with a derby... but it didn't.
I'm really annoyed with the BBC because I don't want to pay for this.
Complain about this comment
The manager of FA cup underdogs always say "We are just going to go out and enjoy the day". This means LOSE. Dont say you're going to enjoy it. Sound like a day at the seaside.
Complain about this comment
Bring back the cliches! It would be better than the Ingham or one of his clones shouting "send him off", "the FA should ban him", "disgraceful behaviour", "send him off again", "dreadful tackle", "dived","send him off", "play-acting", "send him off", "send him off", "I hate footballers"....
Complain about this comment
My pet hate is 4-4-2. That's only 10 players no wonder my team loses every week
Complain about this comment
I know general educational standards have dropped. The evidence is all around, and most obvious on the BBC website which, if it were a candidate for the 11+ a few years back would fail.
However, for Steve Wilson to parade his ignorance in a blog sets a new low.
Can anyone explain the process by which the BBC employs wordsmiths who are illiterate and ignorant?
Complain about this comment
To #166
I can tell you exactly why pal, just to annoy you...
Jog on numpty! Do you have nothing better to do?
Did you pass your 11+? Can you run and be responsible for the upkeep of a website amongst the most visited in the world? Or are you criticising just to feel important?
Complain about this comment
I think the most important phrase needed in this case is:
"What the hell was the point of this blog?!"
or perhaps:
"Thanks very much, theres 3 minutes of my life I will never get back. Hope you're proud of yourself?"
...............jeeez!
Complain about this comment
I have a soft-spot for the (mis)application of English, and have been frequently 'taken to task' (?) by American colleagues for doing it on purpose. Equally, their own lexicon, sporting or otherwise, leaves me scratching my head. It's fun when I watch games of football or (especially) cricket with them, as I have to translate both the commentary and most of the time my own mutterings.
I forgive the commentators for trying to make things interesting, even if they are only successful part of the time (ITV excepted...inexcuseable). I'll give them the benefit of the doubt given the speed of the game. However, I cannot allow studio pundits the same quarter, since they've got more time to think about it.
Complain about this comment
Are goalkeepers trained to "stand up" and "make themselves big"...or does it just come naturally?
Complain about this comment
Having just spent two minutes reading this blog I am outraged. How I dare I take up TWO MINUTES of my valuable time?
Don’t I know that there are only an infinite amount of pages on the internet? Who do I think I am taking up a WHOLE one?
Don’t I know that a blog is no place to try to start a discussion, worse still a light-hearted one?
I know I say that I do not get paid for doing this blog, but there must be some residual cost to posting it on the web and if I am not reimbursed that proportion of my licence fee within 5 working days I shall be writing to my MP to demand that I never be allowed to blog again.
I await my reply with interest, and may I assure myself that if I ever have the misfortune to meet me in person I shall give myself no quarter at all whether it is asked for or not.
Complain about this comment
NO QUARTER ASKED, NO QUARTER GIVEN
You're all wrong. This was said by Sam Allardice to Mark Hughes when Hughes offered £6M for Sam's goalie who Sam valued at £8M.
Complain about this comment
My personal bugbear has always been constantly mentioning when the "big" centre halves come up for a corner. Surely they *always* come up for a corner, and mostly there's a close-up of them running up the pitch anyway. "For me", completely redundant.
@77
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_derby
-> seemingly not definitive, but some interesting theories
Complain about this comment
Not a cliche but David Pleat drives me nuts with his inablilty to pronounce players names (or should that be his ability to mispronounce.) e.g Yossi Benyanoon
Complain about this comment
You should hear my mate reading the lineup for his beloved Liverpool...
Benny Onion (Yossi Benayoun)
Eggnog (David Ngog)
... and for months I was convinced Lucas was his surname, and his full name was "Thatuselessgob%*!£e Lucas"
:o)
Complain about this comment
Steve, I don't think you use any verbal ticks, nor for that matter verbal crosses. But you may have verbal tics.
Complain about this comment
#71, #156 "stonewall penalty"
A case of mistaken identity with "stone-dead", which means certain, definite.
To stonewall means to refuse to answer or to buy time in order to cause delay, or to stand your ground.
Some semi-literate footballer or media personality has then got the two words mixed up.
The phrase should be "That is a stone-dead penalty".
#96 "Hear, hear"
This means "Listen (to this person)".
Complain about this comment
Jonners6 is 100% correct on that one.
There is a good example in modern history of the use of "no quarter spared" which occured during the Jacobite rebellion of 1745 during which Bonnie Prince Charlie tried to win the British crown.
In an attempt to destroy the rebellion the British government told the army commander to ensure that the above principal was applied after the battle which resulted in the massacre of 1000s of wounded troops on the battlefield of Culloden Moor.
It is not known if any Quarter was asked.
Complain about this comment
For the people crying about the quality of the article, give the man a break and lighten up! It's a harmless topic about footballing cliches for us to discuss in a light-hearted manner. If you don't like it, go and listen to the radio, I'm sure there's someone who'll say something out of line so you can whinge to Ofcom about it.
Keep up the good work, Steve. If the blog has sparked 150+ responses you must be doing something right.
Complain about this comment
The Dutch commentator on the West Ham v Man Utd game has just said that Ronaldo has both scored a belter, and that West Ham looked bereft?, 'belter' and 'beref't to describe a goal?, I will 'keep my ears pealed' for more cliches!.
Complain about this comment
Great debate.
Top 3 most hated from me....
1. Nobody says YES anymore.
"Do you think united deserved the win?"
"ABSOLUTELY".
Implication seems to be that YES isn't enough - ABSOLUTELY is sort of 'yes squared'. Also has a sort of intellectual subtext - like yes is for ordinary people, but absolutely makes you clever.
2. "If Hull had been offered a point before the game, they'd have taken it". Huh??? How does that work??
"Tell you what Phil, how about we call it a point apiece, call the game off, and just go down the pub?!"
"Great idea Mr Motson, I don't like playing football that much anyway".
3. The "business end of the season" / result mattering more than the performance etc. Since when did the performance ever matter more than the result? Equally, the 3 points on offer in the first game of the season are surely just as valuable as the 3 points from the last one???
Finally, a word of praise for the glorious Stuart Hall. To use another one: "Different class". :)
Complain about this comment
And one more tired one that I just heard from Andy Gray..... United are "asking a lot of questions" of West Ham, who apparently are "not coming up with answers"!!
Eh??? !!
Complain about this comment
Look, for me personally, at the end of the day I'm over the moon when the commentators resort to cliche. It's only football stadia where the atmosphere is electric (obviously not including the riverside here) especially early doors when the home side are pumping long ball to the back stick (long balls? aren't they all round?)
as to turning on a sixpence they can't really say turn on a 5p piece because to me it doesn't sound as if the particular player is as skillful, although 5ps are actually smaller than an old tanner.
One of my old faves was he can land the ball on a bathmat from 50yds, unbeliveable!
Complain about this comment
why do commentators say "denied by the crossbar" like it got in the way
Complain about this comment
#181 good post, better than the actual blog
Complain about this comment
the 2 that make me laugh everytime are
he has that ability to hang in the air
or less often heard ( in fact only twice )
he has that ability that every full back needs which is the ability to make time stand still for a moment
Complain about this comment
On me ed son (not pele)
Lollipopped him to death
Back stick parker
Pens
ooh hate these,
What we really need is for players to be merged with Business managers can you imagine some of the latest buzz words / interviews that would appear.
Young Wayne saying that he misjudged his scoreboard changing opportunity because he was downstreaming about using his next 50% off voucher whilst grazing with his filly.
Arsene saying that if it had not been for a malfunction in his optical focusing equipment he might have managed to provide a reasoned response to your enquiry.
Bon chance mes amis
Complain about this comment
Funny! what a great blog Steve,
I for one love all the cliches, it's what makes the commentary interesting, although there are some commentators that 'rub me up the wrong way' Andy Gray especially! but for me the best ones are the slip of the tongue where your floundering pundit is aimlessly searching for a word or two to end the sentence before handing back control of the mike to the studio, for instance where else but from Chris Kamara would you get classics like 'They're fightin' like... err.... like beavers Jeff' ...classic.
And who could forget the immortal 'It's a game of two halves' I think it was Jimmy Hill who first coined it in the 80s when he was describing a match of two very contrasting halves from boring to edge of the seat, I'm wondering if he actually realised the obvious connotation I can just imagine Saint and Greavsie sniggering at him!
Complain about this comment
"They're an honest bunch of lads"
Huh? Does great skill come with great dishonesty? I remember this being used a lot to describe the technically poor Watford side who played a bit in 2006/07. Even Boothroyd said it at some point. Is that a less blunt way of saying that the only thing they have going for them is that they're not liars?
"If you'd said before the game that we would have won, I would have taken your hand off"
Bit harsh. I understand it, but it's poorly worded and has connotations of psychotic behaviour.
Complain about this comment
Slightly off-topic, but in Scotland there was a legendary commentator, Arthur Montford, who would seemingly invent new words to describe the action. For example;
"And there's a stramash in the penalty area"
No idea what a stramash is. Know what he meant though.
Complain about this comment
This is a great article and has brought up alot of heated debate but I must say I love some of the rediculous commentary and cliches used without it football would be a bit flat I especially love Kev Keegans "hes rolling around like a dead man ".
I live in South Korea at the moment and certainly miss the commentary on the beeb .Korean commentary is just annoying often they will use nicknames for the players ala crouchie or just pronounce them totally wrong or with a suh on the end like giggsuh tevezsuh .
For a long distance shot or a bad miss they always use wayward shoot-----ting it really grates after a while.As for the American lad who is going on about English commentary has he ever listened to American soccher commentary its disastrous .
Complain about this comment
Fair play, this really does show how inward looking and culture-less the world of football can be! The "no quater" phrase is of military origin, refering to the practice of taken prisoners (or not). It has commonly come to be applied to any contest, especially sport (the modern day state of warfare) which is especially brutal/ highly contested.
Complain about this comment
"a match in which no quarter was asked" It most certainly was not. Now France v Ireland on Saturday in the 6 nations, that was "a match in which no quarter was asked"
Oh and the "what a goal" comment from StJamesPark, of course it is a Cliché, is it referring to the actual Goal or the shot at Goal? IE "What a goal" Look at how it is painted and how neat the net has been hung, you see Cliché.
Complain about this comment
#59
I like your thinking but quarter has nothing to do with a Quarter Staff. It's a term that relates to the "quartering" of a person as part of the medieval practise of Trial by Ordeal. This is the way William Wallace is tortured in Braveheart.
A suspect was hung, drawn and quartered. The hanging and drawing (removing internal organs) would continue until the suspect confessed. This would then lead to them being quartered (chopped into 4), which was considered merciful as it put an end to the ordeal.
Complain about this comment
Not a cliche but surely most over-used adjective on Match of the Day....unbelievable.
When Shearer and Hansen are together you get it about 7 times per program....makes me want to strangle them.
Complain about this comment
" Early doors"
Please shoot anyone that uses it.
Complain about this comment
ref the "quarter"
Surely it is more to do with accomadation than the braveheart punishment.
The captured prisoners would ask for quarter(s) somewhere to shelter.
It doesnt make sense if you use the Braveheart meaning that someone stated.
A captured prisoner isnt going to ask to be chopped in four now are they?
Complain about this comment
Not strictly a cliche, but I can't stand it when pundits/commentators comment on their lack of understanding of the offside rule. For example:
"Is he interfering with play there?"
"There's definite daylight"
"What does first/second phase mean?"
"They seem to change the rule every year. No-one understands it anymore!"
How can a tv company employ an expert who doesn't even know the rules of the game?
Complain about this comment
"tics", not "ticks"
He hit it too well
Complain about this comment
Hi Pot-Kettle,
I appreciate your point. However, you've answered your own question by adding (s). I'm talking about quarter, you're talking about quarters. For your explanation to be correct the expression would have to be "Quarters were neither asked for nor given".
Another point to make here would be that the term "quarter" would already be in existence by the time prisoners were asking for accommodation. In medieval Europe you weren't taken prisoner after a battle, you were enslaved. Prison was somewhere to keep the important captives while negotiating a ransom for their release. They would not have asked for quarters as this would have been provided in order to protect the captors assets.
Complain about this comment
Neither of those phrases have anything to do with football, if you dont have something useuful to write then dont bother.
Complain about this comment
Both would provide a better explanation to Alan Hansen's comments about the Tyne Wear derby than Steve Wilson's assumption. What footballing purpose has your last post achieved?
Complain about this comment
“[Give] no quarter” - Oxford English Dictionary, though clearly not infallible, does not mention being hung, drawn, and quartered and instead goes with:
(1) quarter from quarterhouse
(2) quarter from Shakespearian “relations”
(3) a derivation of (1) between the Dutch and Spaniards
“A game of two halves”
An acquaintance, while refereeing a school game, completely botched the timing of the first half giving rise to their new phrase...
“It was a game of two-thirds and one-third”.
Complain about this comment
Any phrase followed by "for a big man." As if being big precludes being fast or agile. You never hear an NBA star being called "very fast, for a big man."
Complain about this comment
Could you please ask all commentators to stop using the infuriating phrase "just about did enough to...." when the player clearly and very simply did enough , not "just about , enough"
Ferdinand heads the ball off the line and the commentator informs us he "just about did enough to head it clear" No he Bl***y well didn't. Had he "just about" done enough he would have failed to head it clear
Complain about this comment
RE: STONEWALL PENALTY
We'll probably never know who first coined the phrase 'stonewall
penalty'. The earliest reference I have found is this from The Independent in November 1999. Pat Nevin is talking about the 1986 England v Scotland game:
‘I should have gone down because it was a stonewall penalty but I tried to stay on my feet’.
However, I don't think that whoever said it first got it confused with 'stone dead' as some previous posts have suggested. I think he meant to say 'stone cold', a popular (American) expression meaning absolute or absolutely, complete or completely, perfect or perfectly i.e. ‘he’s a stone cold killer' or 'he's stone cold crazy' (also shortened to just 'stone' i.e. 'she's a stone fox').
I'm afraid we're stuck with it now - it's usage is too widespread. When the incorrect meaning of a word is used by the majority of people, then that becomes the meaning.
Complain about this comment
View these comments in RSS