The wonder of Wilko
- 3 Feb 07, 08:50 PM
Twickenham - It can be very hard not to use hyperbole when writing about Jonny Wilkinson at the best of times, and having just watched his display against Scotland I’m not even going to try.
So, which word plucked from the gushing end of the semantic spectrum shall we use to describe the return of the perfect 10 (sorry Dan, but Wilko was here first).
Remarkable? Not even close.
Incredible? Getting there I suppose.
Astonishing? Ball-park I guess, but somehow still too, well, limp really.
How about miraculous?
I don’t think he can walk on water, but after Saturday’s display in England’s win at Twickenham I’m thinking of seeing what the bookies will offer me on that.
OK, it was only an average Scottish team and the English pack laid the foundations with a welcome return to something like their dominating best.
But Wilkinson was playing his first game for England for 1,169 days, he is just into his 10th comeback from injury and had played little more than 40 minutes since lacerating a kidney.
And how does he ease himself back?
He scores a Calcutta Cup record of 27 points, comprising seven kicks out of nine, a cheeky drop-goal and a try, and puts in at least one thumping tackle to remind us further of those distant days before his body called a time out.
OK, the rugby gods were smiling when the TMO decided he had not been in touch for his try, but it’s about time they gave him a break.
The Scotland match had many talking points for the struggling world champions - the opening chapter of Brian Ashton’s reign, the debut of Andy Farrell, Phil Vickery’s first game since being appointed long-term captain and the return of Jason Robinson from international retirement among them.
But Jonny’s return dwarfed all of them, and the rapturous reception he got from the England faithful when he went off after 73 minutes illustrated that perfectly.
He had been so keen to get back in the thick of things initially, he was about to kick off when he realised the rest of the team were locked in a huddle 20 yards away and had to run over sheepishly to join them.
But maybe he should have just got started without them - it was the sort of day when he could have pulled it off.
Having waxed lyrical I suppose we need to come back to earth and remind ourselves that it is only one match and the long journey back to the top has only just started.
But for now, let’s just salute the greatest comeback since Lazarus decided to give that breathing lark another crack.
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Personally I was happy with Harry Ellis. We all know the quality of Wilko and it was really a case of seeing if he was as good as we all remember.
The performance of Ellis seems to show we now have a good quality scrum half to link with.
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Well done Jonny - good kicking out of hand, pretty good passing and great place kicking. Good to see the old flexibility back - nice step around the Scots for the try (who cares if it wasn't - it deserved it).
England played well but, if we are to be honest here, Scotland are pretty third rate and lost to a very average Australian side in the Autumn.
Nice to see Big Phil back as well.
Cheers
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An England team playing with energy and conviction. The pack worked hard, some ball recycling was slow, but the error rate was much lower than in the autumn and 2006 Six nations. Scotland became tired too soon before the final whistle. England have much to do before the World Cup begins; let's hope there are no long term injuries caused to key English players before that competition starts...
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A slightly exagerated article, but not that far from the truth.
His performance was enhanced by the quite shockingly lackluster performance from the Scots.
His goalkicking is the main thing England lacked in his absence. His return will undoubtedly herald a new dawn for English rugby and hopefully a return to the mighty world cup winning days.
How sick must Robinson feel now, and to think if he was in charge he wouldn't have played. No wonder it was time for him to go and his appointment still baffles me.
Long live a healthy Jonny!!
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One word...legend
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I bow to the genius of Wilko but let's remember that Bude boy Phil Vickery displayed great leadership in holding the team together when we were going through yet another mini crisis in the first half, in recent matches that may have been enough to make us fold. Harry Ellis played a blinder and for me was Man Of The Match. He raised the tempo of Englands game in the way that we had come to expect of our World Cup winning side. OK we were a bit rusty but that's something we can work on and who knows there may still be time to restore our match winning ways. We are as good as any other team in the rest of the world when we believe.
Leicester and Cornwall xx
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A good game but take away the returning stars what else did we have. A good one off performance by a scrum half and full back who stuggled early on and the usual pack who held there own. living in Wales and being English is not wasy but the welsh have often thought they were returning to greatness after beating Outer Mongolia 100 points to nil, so we need to keep a lid on things and realise one swallow does not make a summer. it is going to be hard to get out of the World Cup group but that is what we must do. Beating an average Scotland team is good but a real test will be Ireland in their own back yard and then a trip to Wales.
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Enfin!
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Truly a fabulous performance. It wasn't just good because he came back from injury, but it was good because it was like he was never gone. Wow is all I can say. I also think Harry Ellis was another level to the rest of the rubbish we had before.
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The best thing about Jonny was his own reaction to his outstanding performance.
Didn't acknowledge the crowd during the standing ovation he received when substituted - humility, the game is bigger than him.
Thanked evrybody for supporting him in the after match interview - said how much he still owed everyone who showed faith in him - humility.
Was chomping at the bit to get away and analyse the game in order to make improvements - professionalism.
What a brilliant example to our youngsters who normally are fed the inane rantings from our overpaid, egotistical and mercenary footballers.
Good on you, Jonny!!
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The legend fly half has comeback! I wonder how good Jonny Wikinson is with a stick of willow, and a Kookaburra in his hand? mmmmmm......
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The legend fly half has comeback! I wonder how good Jonny Wikinson is with a stick of willow, and a Kookaburra in his hand? mmmmmm......
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What a game. It wasn't perfect by any means and at times it looked like Scotland could take a result from the game but even when it looked like victory was inevitable, England didn't become complacent like they had over the last year or two and won convincingly. Great to have Wilkinson back, his standing ovation was thoroughly deserved.
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I agree, Brian Ashton's introduction has seen a huge change in team ethos, they looked like they thought they could actually win the game. Fantastic start, and really, this being their first game together, they can only get better. Pride is a double edged sword, but I was happy to feel it again today, come on England.
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Was there anyone else on the pitch? Following the BBC's coverage, it was hard to tell. Yes JW had a good match for a comeback, and he's a fine player, but did we need it rammed down our throats every 10 seconds?
Man of the Match? Not sure about that, what about Ellis, who had a blinder of a game?
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Finally. That's a bit more like it really. Absolutely amazing by Wilko, but all credit to Harry Ellis. A Blinder of a match from him I thought. Well done boys. Has been a good weekend all round for England. We manage to beat Oz in the cricket, our rugby U21's and Saxons won, as well as our brilliant Ladies team beating Scotland 60-0. Class!
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Great to see England Winning again. Well done lads. Wilkinson will help us keep the World Cup!!!!!!!!!!!
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We looked confident as a team. The boy wonder was back and the lift that gave the squad was transferred to the pitch. The pack was awesome and full of running at the end (the Scots were broken), the backs looked like they could break down defences with guile instead of brawn and we have that priceless commodity back - a world class kicker. No longer will teams be able to get away with infringing anywhere in their own half. It should open up the field and we now have a coherent backline to exploit the resultant gaps.
People say that we shouldn't read too much into this game, but who cares what Keith Wood thinks! ENGLAND ARE BACK!!!!
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Wilko played fantastic for someone who has been trying to recover from 10 injuries and 2 years of darkness. I salute him.
Better player than Dan Carter when both are on top form. By a mile in my opinion. Farrell and Ellis played well too. Vickery good as captain. As a Sale fan, nice to see JR come back and score 2 tries.
P.S. England for Grand Slam if not Triple Crown. Us vs France will be a toughie.
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I now see the wisdom of what Rob Andrew said about JW, that he hasn't peaked yet, and he hasn't. He is now certainly stronger than he was a few years ago. The guy is talented and very courageous, and although he played a fantastic match (his kicking was excellent, his hands were fast and accurate, he linked well, and his tackling was really solid) its great to see him being modest (about himself and the teams performance.) It was also great to see Jason Robinson's tries but England did struggle at points in the match against a Scotland team that just could not match England up front and in the penetration of their back play. Now pride is restored (a massive relief to a lot of us English) we need to go to the next level. Harry Ellis was great, so was Tindall, and AF showed signs of what he will be given time, not to mention what Vickery and the pack did. But Wilko was the star and he is an inspirational figure for us. And I just wish him and the team well.
GO ENGLAND!!!!JUST DO IT!!!
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I now see the wisdom of what Rob Andrew said about JW, that he hasn't peaked yet, and he hasn't. He is now certainly stronger than he was a few years ago. The guy is talented and very courageous, and although he played a fantastic match (his kicking was excellent, his hands were fast and accurate, he linked well, and his tackling was really solid) its great to see him being modest (about himself and the teams performance.) It was also great to see Jason Robinson's tries but England did struggle at points in the match against a Scotland team that just could not match England up front and in the penetration of their back play. Now pride is restored (a massive relief to a lot of us English) we need to go to the next level. Harry Ellis was great, so was Tindall, and AF showed signs of what he will be given time, not to mention what Vickery and the pack did. But Wilko was the star and he is an inspirational figure for us. And I just wish him and the team well.
GO ENGLAND!!!!JUST DO IT!!!
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Wonderful performance from Wilkinson, but I too must applaud the finest performance yet from young Harry Ellis. He finally is allowed the space to play the game he is capable of doing. Well done lad, not looking as lost as at the Trevi fountains last year!
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I now see the wisdom of what Rob Andrew said about JW, that he hasn't peaked yet, and he hasn't. He is now certainly stronger than he was a few years ago. The guy is talented and very courageous, and although he played a fantastic match (his kicking was excellent, his hands were fast and accurate, he linked well, and his tackling was really solid) its great to see him being modest (about himself and the teams performance.) It was also great to see Jason Robinson's tries but England did struggle at points in the match against a Scotland team that just could not match England up front and in the penetration of their back play. Now pride is restored (a massive relief to a lot of us English) we need to go to the next level. Harry Ellis was great, so was Tindall, and AF showed signs of what he will be given time, not to mention what Vickery and the pack did. But Wilko was the star and he is an inspirational figure for us. And I just wish him and the team well.
GO ENGLAND!!!!JUST DO IT!!!
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Jonny Wilkinson has endured more than any professional sportsman of the modern era (Beckham, Henson, Flintoff Etc.) over the last 3 years. To do what he did today was phenomenal. No Discussion. Name me another played in world sport who has achived anything similar? Dead simple - there aint none. I take exception to EJ Morgan and as a fellow Englishman living in Wales I know of the blinkered journalism we are exposed to. Yes, Ellis was Man of the Match, but sport is also about Human interest. JW is the most compelling sports story of the year. Aged Journeymen? Who exactly? Jason Robinson who scored a brace?
Long live Big Phil and bring on the world cup!
Chops in Llanharry
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Whether Charlie Hodgson is fit or not I think this ends any debate about who should be fly half.
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What an inspiration to everyone especially youngsters like me!!!Hope this is another new era for England. Overall what a display from the England team, carry it on!!!!
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Sure England won but the game lacked flair and imagination and pace. Scotland were abysmal.
Jonny Wilkinson is not the messiah and he's not the world's best no. 10 (that is Dan Carter)
Wilkinson and the rest of the English team just looked good because Scotland were poor...there needs to be some perspective.
The real test will be when England play some real opposition.
As for keeping the World Cup ...the next step would be beating any of the other teams in the 6 nations before even thinking of the Southern Hemisphere sides.
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Congratulations to the Engalnd team.
Well done Jonny in playing a good game, lets not forget there are another 14 palyers on the pitch, but once again Jonny was as always the legend that he is & inspired the rest of the team to play well. lets keep up the good work & show the rest of the world why we are the champions and lets retain the trophy in France later this year.
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For one individual to shine it still takes a team to provide the platform and behind that a fully functional organisation. England were like a dysfunctional business last year, sapping each others morale, and the responsibility for that usually lies at the head. Playing people to their strengths by keeping them in their correct position helps too !
Nick
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For one individual to shine it still takes a team to provide the platform and behind that a fully functional organisation. England were like a dysfunctional business last year, sapping each others morale, and the responsibility for that usually lies at the head. Playing people to their strengths by keeping them in their correct position helps too !
Nick
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once again england were predictable, and played boring rugby. they excelled as scotland were poor. hope they are still taking bets that england wont make it out of the group stages.
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Brilliant to see England back to something like reasonable form. A little confidence can work wonders. Let's hope that we build from here for the Tests ahead and strong showing in RWC.
Perhaps tonight though we could spare a thought for Andy Robinson. How many of those lost games would have been won if we could only kick a few goals and have Robinson to finish off a few moves? Suddenly Vickery,Farrell et al are fit. No wonder we look like a team. All we need is Richard Hill back and we can start to dream.
On top off that we get a dubious try when against the ABs it was the other way.
No wonder Napoleon wanted lucky commanders.
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harry ellis had a stunner of a game, he seemed to be able to run through the scottish back line at will.
and of course johnny - he had an incredible match and i agree, Scotland cant come out of a game like that complaining that someone's leg hit the ground a split second before the ball did, they were completely outplayed
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I though Wilkinson played a blinder today as did Ellis, but I think the statement that: "Better player than Dan Carter when both are on top form. By a mile in my opinion." Is a bit too far, although I love Wilkinson and think he is the best england 10 is a very long time, this one performance has blinded us, Dan Carter is simply brilliant, you just watch the 2nd test of the Lions tour, or maybe the last time England played NZ are Carter was sublime, and Wilkinson wasn't that great today, the first 40 minutes, going forward with ball in hand he did little and wasn't really incisive, but got better in the 2nd half, I still think Wilkinson is brilliant, but Carter is in a class of his own!
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it WAS a brilliant return to action by a man who lets face it has only played 40 minutes of top class rugby this season! yes the rest of the team , particularly the forwards, were back to the sort of form that won us the world cup, the last time we saw mr wilkinson pull on that white jersey. Why is it that we just can't enjoy the fact that we have regained the calcutta cup and made the first, all important step towards a grand slam and could we be actually be back in the contest for the webb ellis cup?
it was just nice to see an England team with some urgency and bite and i believe that jonny and harry ellis were at the heart of this, long may they continue to show this type of form
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After the talk about lucky coaches, maybe Brian Ashton's fortunate streak began when the Six Nations fixtures were decided - matches against Scotland and Italy are the perfect opportunity for a new team and a new midfield to blend together. A great start - some quick ball from the rucks, the first scrum half to do some "sniping" round the scrum since a the Dawson of three years ago and a goal kicker who can hit the ball between those stick things - all suggest better things when the team get used to each other. The rest of the tournament is something to be looked forward to for England supporters.
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I agree with dave.
There needs to be a reality check.
I dread to think what the headlines will be like tomorrow but I guess you've got to milk it while you can.
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Dave, the reason for the positivity, overpositivity as you see it, is that over the last 12-18 months England fans have been subjected to utter rubbish.
I agree today's performance was far from perfect but you could see glimpses of the 2003 team. Admittedly the 2003 team were showing these glimpses a couple of years before 2003 so this team has to accelerate the process to world beaters compared to the 2003 team but after today's performance I don't think semis is out of question in the WC.
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Surprisingly good, yes, but i think you are going over the top. But i agree, theres nobody who deserves it more than Jonny Wilkinson, the man is an example to us all
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As a Scot,humiliated as we may be as a nation, I'd just like to add my praise to the England team for today's performance. Esprcially Jonny. What a star!
That makes me proud to be British!
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In every result, you will get the frenzied and blinkered fans (comes from elation of winning)and also the doubters and cynics, or just plain bitter. Agreed, Scotland were not the best opposition to rest a world cup retaining comment on, but it was a massive improvement of anything that we have produced in the last 3 years and has a lot of promise for the future. So enjoy it for what is is, be excited about the next game and give credit where it is due. JW and HE were fantastic, backed by the rest of, what we can hopefully and finally call a "team". This result will make any opposition team at least a little bit wary now and thats a good thing.
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Just like the good old days.
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In every result, you will get the frenzied and blinkered fans (comes from elation of winning)and also the doubters and cynics, or just plain bitter. Agreed, Scotland were not the best opposition to rest a world cup retaining comment on, but it was a massive improvement of anything that we have produced in the last 3 years and has a lot of promise for the future. So enjoy it for what it is, be excited about the next game and give credit where it is due. JW and HE were fantastic, backed by the rest of, what we can hopefully and finally call a "team". This result will make any opposition team at least a little bit wary now and thats a good thing.
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OK, we won and its great to see things are on track to building (yes BUILDING) our team back to being a force to be reckoned with. But I have to agree with Dave (No.32) to an extent. Let's take a page out of Mr. Wilkinson's book and learn some humility. Nationalism's all well and good but sportsmanship is great. For all the praise we heap on his shoulders no one seems to be trying to follow Jonny's example.
Maybe humility isn't the term I'm looking for. Reality check? Picture England against New Zealand... A full strength South Africa... Or, dare I say it, an on-fire Ireland in 2 weeks time. Or even a good French team with enough time to prepare. Sure we can give them a damn good game, but until we actually beat them, let's not hype ourselves up so much that if the downfall comes (and I'm praying along with every other Englishman that it doesn't) then it's not as devastating as being coached by A. Robinson (harsh words, I know, but its a good reminder).
Any and every England fan has faith in their team just like every other sports fan around the globe. Trouble is that everyone around the globe is dying to make us eat our words of belief and support for our team.
We beat Scotland and took back the C Cup (no, that's not a pun) and we can be proud, but only as proud as the most humble sportsman who put his body on the line to get us there (unfortunately for all the anglophobes the spotlight again shines on Wilko). If we get beaten, I do not want to find myself among the masses who make countless excuses instead of simply admitting that the other team played the game better (maybe not more fairly, maybe not prettier, but that doesn't always constitute better) and therefore got the win. NB: "We play to win at all costs" used to be an England ethos, and it can easily be turned against us when we lose and some people start rattling off excuses. When we start winning the big games again, what I'm most looking forward to is turning to all the nay-sayers and calmly stating: "I told you so."
Until then, I'm behind my team all the way and say we should follow the example set by our sporting greats and even current sportsmen and just take things "one game at a time".
...Still though, I'd be so psyched if we could get back on track by winning the 6N! GO ENGLAND!!!
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dave, in some ways ur right, but the man deserves some credit. the original, and still the best. lets hope the same occurs when we play a good team, like italy!
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Ellis marginally man of match but dont get carried away, Italy looked poor against France, tomorrow is the key, if Ireland win then I look forward to the Ireland France game as the decider
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We can't get too excited as we beat Wales by the same type of margin at the beginning of the last 6N.
Italy next week will not be easy. Only when we have played Ireland and Wales away, and France at home will we truly know where Ashton has taken us.
Win all those and nobody can doubt us, but I'm not marching off to the bookies on today's showing. C+ for ability/achievement, A for effort. Both will need to be A if we are going to beat some of the world's better sides.
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I think moderation on both sides of the respective pesimists and optimists who have commented thus far is required. Of course England will face considerably stiffer tests over the coming weeks and months, Scotland were good in small patches but generally quite poor. However, English fans should be able to demonstrate their pride and passion in not just the win, but the nature of the performance of all players, given the dire performances and morale over the previous 18 months!
As for Johnny - I agree with the posting by Chops, it is a remarkable accomplishment of human endeavour and pure strength of mind to come back at all from the abyss of over 2 years of pretty much constant injury.
Well done England - let's take it to the next level now!
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Yes, Jonnie played brilliantly.
Otherwise, the Scots' performance was so pathetic in all phases that its difficult to judge how England will now go forward in the the VI nations: Whatever his qualities, he can't carry a side that should have laid on a century against their opponents yesterday.
So let's not just order Jonny's own double-decker bus yet for the celebrations!
There's already enough euphoria over the England XI's latest annhilation of Australia!
The English are supposedly well known for their reserve. I'm afraid it is a quality that deserts them at the glimpse of a not very impressive win.
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Dave - likely prediction come the world cup - New Zealand choke. The kiwi's always get carried away and then can't follow through. NZ gave up the world cup in 1991 and have given it up everytime since. The Aussies will get to a semi and no more. As for the Ashes - their ours again next time round. I love aussie/ kiwi bashing as much as you love pomme baiting.
England may not win the world cup, but something Bernard Laporte said gave me an insight - "Wilkinson is English rugby's Zidane". In other words he is someone capable (minus the headbutt!) of turning the course of a game and a tournment, like a Campese or a Lomu or a Carter of course.
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Lads, you are not on the planet at all. As great as it is to see Jonny back in the pocket, one swallow does not make a summer. Scotland were awful. We'll put manners on ye in Croker.
What have ye outside the boy Wilko, hardly anything to keep Drico and Darce awake, thats certain! Did Josh Lewsey even touch the ball today?
Good to have England back because it only enhances the competition overall but theres a long way to go yet folks!
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What should always be welcome in sport - surely the most democratic of activities - is the free flow of discussion relating to the game, and the willingness of blogs such as these to accept contributors with all shades of opinions properly expressed.
It is therefore sincerely hoped that this site, which is subject to moderation, will see fit to accept my post. It would otherwise seem very unsporting
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The game today was the opportunity the team needed to regain the confidence they know they require to be world beaters. The talent and vast experience of players like PV, JW, MT and JR is what will cement this side together. We should all remember this is an almost new shaped side and as such will not be yet at the level they will need to be for the RWC, but that said it was a steady solid performance on which to build. Great to see JW doing what he does best, mixing it with the big guys and sitting them on their a..r..s..e..s.
lOOKING FORWARD TO MORE OF THE SAME!!
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I sooo glad to see that there are still those pesimistic people out there, good god people you sound like a bunch of spurs fans!! Try and give some credit for a change...
Maybe Scotland weren't that great, but you still have to take your chances and win the game (or has that changed since i last looked???)
For jonny to come back after 3 years and score 27 points is fantastic. Great performances from the rest of the team as well, we might actually have a chance of winning something this year.
So once we've won the 6 nations (its called optimism/glass half full) I hope im the first person to say i told you so
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ok from a scottish point of view, have to admit JW was pretty good for someone who hasnt played for 3 years, however how harry ellis didnt get man of the match is a joke! furthermore the fact that JW's try was given defeats the whole point of having such a system in place, the tmo should never be given such responsibiities again! However the worst of it was having to listen to Brian Moores rants for 2 hours, in the 1st half dan parks placed pin point kicks into the corners and got slated by moore for apparent "lack of options", however in the 2nd half when the same was done by JW he couldnt contain his praise, i can admit england deserved to win and scotland were poor but having to listen moore was painful, surely the BBC can adopt a little less bias commentary position, and whoever said JW is by a mile better than dan Carter must have been brainwashsed by moore's tedious rants!
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What a bunch of coaches we all are! Can we not enjoy a game of rugby for what it was - a good game. As far as JW is concerned - he brought something to the England setup that has been missing - stability and a goal kicking machine. Yes he showed vision and that will no doubt develop further - but the big thing was - you infringe - we score 3 points - simple.
England have lost far too many points off of the back of missed free kicks and the opposition feeling free to infringe within 30-40m of their line as they felf CH would miss - no more with Wilco.
I hope this is the start of something - let's see what happens tomorrow but the Irish Pack best perform for I feel England will test them and any infringment under preassure will be punished with 3 points. Here's hoping ;o)
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"Just like the good old days"
Would that be the days 1987- 2001?...Oh no your talking about 2002 and 2003...yeah wow the long lasting period of English dominance. I feel for England it seems only a few people realise that this overbloated sense of "We are the best" or "We can compete with any other team" has whats lead to 18 years of shite in the Cricket, nothing in the football and one world cup win in the Rugby. Id love to see a competitive England after being bored off my socks by this summers cricket. But please its hard to improve if your not truely honest.
P.S Wilkinson better then Carter? Oh please if you want your fly half kicking from hand all day inbetween goal shots then maybe. Speed, incisivness running ability and creativity, the elements for exciting fast paced rugby? Not a chance in the world.
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Good to see the usual mix of elation, hyperbole, criticism, expectation, insults, praise etc etc. I am sure that all true rugby fans around the world were delighted to see Jonny back on the field and playing like his old self. Sure there were other players on the field performing well (especially Ellis) but at the end of the day we all like fairy tales with happy endings and JW just provided that. On more than one occasion I cringed and held my breath as Jonny got stuck in and I’m sure that we all breathed a sigh of relief when he walked off the field unaided for once and to a well-deserved standing ovation. It was a pleasure to see so many sporting Scots standing applauding him too.
I am a huge fan of JW, he is certainly a world-class No 10 with an amazing rugby brain and would no doubt be one of the first named in any World VX, however… there is no escaping the fact that Dan Carter is the more capable and exciting runner. You’d put money on JW kicking a difficult penalty but you’d but a greater amount on DC breaking through a solid defence.
At the end of the day… rugby was the winner.
Ian M.
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Interesting comments about indicators for world cup;
Far too early to get carried away , after 1 home win against the 2nd weakest team in the tourno.
However, as for W-cup then I believe we will easily get to the QF and meet Oz if we are 2nd in group and Wales if we win (probably) - but Semi vs France if we top group an win QF and NZ if 2nd and win should be top of our ambitions.
I would rate the teams as following
NZ - miles ahead
France - with home advantage 2nd
Then a whole range of teams who could do well in third pool of teams
Ireland - just edging the chasing pack
Aus, SA,England - Big squads, lots of depth, tend to overachieve in big tournaments
Argentina / Wales - could up their game and beat any of the 4 teams in the pool above.
Basically
QF 1 SA V Aus
QF 2 NZ v Ire/ Arg
QF 3 Eng Wales
QF 4 France v Scot
SF 1 SA/Aus v NZ
SF 2 Eng France
Final NZ v France
Only way this won't hppen is if NZ bottle semi - see 2003 or France don't wein group - Arg + Ire both v. tough - but Home ad means hosts virtually always overachieve.
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It is clear to me that without JW for the last 3 years the England set up were lost at sea. Today he showed that he is, as always the guy who controls the game from behind the tight. He commands respect from the opposition and by his shear presence and ability earns it. For me Jonny had nothing to prove, it was all about him proving to himself that he still can take to the stage with a group of top international players and perform, and that he did to a level that is far beyond the reach of most players. Lets hope that this is the start of a long injury free journey to A place where we have not yet seen any player in an England shirt, THE BEST RUGBY UNION PLAYER IN THE WORLD AT 10..
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England still have France and Ireland to contend with, I wouldn't get too hyped up yet.
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james, wa wa wa.. When have you ever heard anybody in the England rugby team saying " we re the best"? Whats that? oh sorry.. you haven t. Absolute honesty over every performance is all that will come out of the England dressing room; when its crap they ll be the first ones to admit it. Who are these people your talking about, the wizards? I agree, the uk press are full of bollocks, the BBC commentary was sickening in the Scotland match in their praise of England; but don t suggest the players carry that overblow opinion onto the pitch with them. The media don t wear the white shirt.The lack of recent success doesn t come down to the tabloids and it certainly doesn t come down to archaic Victorian imperial sentiment, god i m sick of that argument.I m sure nobody in the cricket team is kissing their own butts recently either, probably due to the amount of crap in the vicinity. (i m not counting overpaid buntymen footballers). By the way, i m sure i saw speed, incisive running and creativity as well as excellent kicking in Wilkinson s performance.
you seemed to have led me on a counter rant. well done.
I only wanted to say, Ellis played a blinder!
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james, wa wa wa.. When have you ever heard anybody in the England rugby team saying " we re the best"? Whats that? oh sorry.. you haven t. Absolute honesty over every performance is all that will come out of the England dressing room; when its crap they ll be the first ones to admit it. Who are these people your talking about, the wizards? I agree, the uk press are full of bollocks, the BBC commentary was sickening in the Scotland match in their praise of England; but don t suggest the players carry that overblow opinion onto the pitch with them. The media don t wear the white shirt.The lack of recent success doesn t come down to the tabloids and it certainly doesn t come down to archaic Victorian imperial sentiment, god i m sick of that argument.I m sure nobody in the cricket team is kissing their own butts recently either, probably due to the amount of crap in the vicinity. (i m not counting overpaid buntymen footballers). By the way, i m sure i saw speed, incisive running and creativity as well as excellent kicking in Wilkinson s performance.
you seemed to have led me on a counter rant. well done.
I only wanted to say, Ellis played a blinder!
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Ok, so some people appear to be getting carried away in the eyes of others. However I'd like to point out that it has been a long time since anybody following England has had cause to be optimistic.
Although England's performance today was at times lacklustre, that's to be expected when you take their form running up to the game into consideration.
If you look at the current England team on paper you can't help but feel a little excitement and hold the belief that, if they avoid injuries to key players, England are capable of once again finding their form and becoming a force in world rugby once more.
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Today the Wilko comeback spurred me to travel to the only place in Dallas, USA that was showing the game. He was clearly an inspiration to the England team - and one of the main reasons for this is because he can consistently put points on the board. Just statistically I wonder how many more of the last 30 Internationals England would have won this past three years with him playing - the comparisons with Dan Carter are not relevent - this is not about debating World fifteens -its about England winning.
The impact of Wilkinson on the team is simple - they actually believe they can win the game and they will win more now!
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Wilko - did what he did best today, kick o and kick o lets kick! He gets the job done, England win, fair enough! But by god its boring, but that is how they won the world cup I suppose!!!
Even a Welsh Celt like me can appreciate how well he did today. However him being given that try is scary indeed. Is it fair he got special treatment?? It is scary to think in this day and age decisions such as that are being given. Obviously this isnt Jonnys fault but he is not above the rules of the game!
Also people are getting too excited. Jonny is only a man afterall. There is still a long way to go. Plus there is nothing to be proud about when England revert back to the old idea that their success is basically relaying on Jonny. Lets hope for Englands sake he keeps fit and lets hope for Englands future they get out of that thinking fast and appreciate other new blood i.e Ellis! He was Man of the match today!
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Ahhhh it's my sister above - how random I finds you here!
Some of the rugby today reminded me of a poor standard school game - it was static and quite unpleasant on the eye.
Scotland were not just awful - they were a disgrace. We are all well aware the palate of the Scot is accustomed to the odd tipple - but some of the forwards could easily have passed as drinking a bottle of the ol' famous grouse before kick off today.
Watch tomorrow's game - I can assure you it will be far more worth it.
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Ahhhh it's my sister above - how random I finds you here!
Some of the rugby today reminded me of a poor standard school game - it was static and quite unpleasant on the eye.
Scotland were not just awful - they were a disgrace. We are all well aware the palate of the Scot is accustomed to the odd tipple - but some of the forwards could easily have passed as drinking a bottle of the ol' famous grouse before kick off today.
Watch tomorrow's game - I can assure you it will be far more worth it.
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Ahhhh it's my sister above - how random I finds you here!
Some of the rugby today reminded me of a poor standard school game - it was static and quite unpleasant on the eye.
Scotland were not just awful - they were a disgrace. We are all well aware the palate of the Scot is accustomed to the odd tipple - but some of the forwards could easily have passed as drinking a bottle of the ol' famous grouse before kick off today.
Watch tomorrow's game - I can assure you it will be far more worth it.
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I'm so happy not only to see JW come back a great personal achivement for him, but also he played a good game. I cant imagine one of those multi-millionaire footballers playing so well when they comeback from their broken toenail trauma.
All rugby fans should applaud JW's achivement (for the most part I think they are). I dont really care who is the "best 10" in world, if Dan Carter was Scottish would it change things ?...probably not, its a team that's on the pitch (thats why they have numbers on their shirts).
What I do care about, is an England team that are showing the signs of fighting to retain the world cup. There were a lot of positives to build on, rather than the Robinson era of negatives to cringe about.
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Ahhhh it's my sister above - how random I finds you here!
Some of the rugby today reminded me of a poor standard school game - it was static and quite unpleasant on the eye.
Scotland were not just awful - they were a disgrace. We are all well aware the palate of the Scot is accustomed to the odd tipple - but some of the forwards could easily have passed as drinking a bottle of the ol' famous grouse before kick off today.
Watch tomorrow's game - I can assure you it will be far more worth it.
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much is being made of JONNY,S FOOT possibly being in touchwhen his try was given but nobody has said much about the england forward who was impeded during the lineout that lead to scotlands first try.These are the breaks in rugby, you take the rough with the smooth!Well done the lads!
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These last two posts show just a hint of jealousy or nerves! Well done Jonny.....a genuine and professional role model for English sport.
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No we shouldn't get carried away because overall that was a good england performance in that we have scrapped out the result.
If (touch wood) J Wilkinson remains fit he can score us some vital points. The rest of the team seems to have gone up a level and to beat the auld enemy is by no means an easy feat.
Well done but lets err on the side of caution and not put too much pressure on JW.
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i thought i'd give you my ten-penny worth. As a Welshman it was good to see Johnny Wilkinson back, one of the previous comments was it was like he'd never left. yes - true. how ever, the opponents weren't exactly good competition, i don't want to Pee on any ones chips here, but a true test of your revitalised team will be against a much more competative side like Ireland and dare I say Wales. But well done Johnny, good to see you. Even a well done to Harry Ellis who decided to play yesterday, instead of complaining to the Ref every ruck, maul, scrum etc etc.
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Fairly pissed off 'cos the 6 nations w/e hasn't been shown here in Oz, loads of very sensible comments. No one is currently suggesting England will/can win the WC, but after NZ who may implode given the expectations and a home advantage for France everyone can beat each other on a given day. England would have won most of their games in the past 3 yrs with JW at the helm, no argument and we would be looking forward with enthusiasm. Great move appointing Ashton, Farrell will grow into the role and there are still players to come into form. it's not all bad at all!
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Well done England, It was great and uplifting to see us play well.It has been truly dissapointing to have had such a poor run and hopefully this has been an end to that.
Scotland did not play well and we played good running Rugby which was a pleasure to watch, Jonny was excellent and made a huge difference to us.
Frankly It is that that worries me the most, boy have we missed him and to leave him out of the side for any reason would be a concern and the effect on the England team is there for the world to see.
I fear Jonny is going to come under some intense physical pressure in the next few games.
We shall have to wait and see.
Good Luck England in their forthcoming games especially against the French.
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Well done England, It was great and uplifting to see us play well.It has been truly dissapointing to have had such a poor run and hopefully this has been an end to that.
Scotland did not play well and we played good running Rugby which was a pleasure to watch, Jonny was excellent and made a huge difference to us.
Frankly It is that that worries me the most, boy have we missed him and to leave him out of the side for any reason would be a concern and the effect on the England team is there for the world to see.
I fear Jonny is going to come under some intense physical pressure in the next few games.
We shall have to wait and see.
Good Luck England in their forthcoming games especially against the French.
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Well done England, It was great and uplifting to see us play well.It has been truly dissapointing to have had such a poor run and hopefully this has been an end to that.
Scotland did not play well and we played good running Rugby which was a pleasure to watch, Jonny was excellent and made a huge difference to us.
Frankly It is that that worries me the most, boy have we missed him and to leave him out of the side for any reason would be a concern and the effect on the England team is there for the world to see.
I fear Jonny is going to come under some intense physical pressure in the next few games.
We shall have to wait and see.
Good Luck England in their forthcoming games especially against the French.
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Well done England, It was great and uplifting to see us play well.It has been truly dissapointing to have had such a poor run and hopefully this has been an end to that.
Scotland did not play well and we played good running Rugby which was a pleasure to watch, Jonny was excellent and made a huge difference to us.
Frankly It is that that worries me the most, boy have we missed him and to leave him out of the side for any reason would be a concern and the effect on the England team is there for the world to see.
I fear Jonny is going to come under some intense physical pressure in the next few games.
We shall have to wait and see.
Good Luck England in their forthcoming games especially against the French.
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thanks jonny for my hangover this morning. it's the best for a while. can't wait to see you doing the business at croke park!
is not dallagio still in the picture?
graystoke
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To be fair, england did dominate. Wilkson kicked good and the englidh pack rumbled well. It was a different story last year when scotland could show the likes of jason white, but oh well. before england can be recognised they need to get rid of that arogant Gusgott. he is rediculous. honestly, good in his time but now he is hated. Time will tell how this new enlish team is, france will put the, back in place. Although i hate Ellis, he is quality
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A couple of points before we let ourselves get carried away:
If the opposition score 20 points in any of our remaining games, we would lose them.
We were playing against a nation which has 8,000 male players to chose from.....we have 180,000!
Agreed that the commentary was appalling, but then it is well known that BBC is a misnomer for EBC.
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Footballer's should take note!
In his post match interview Wilkinson said he was happy to get through the game without an injury....
Half his lip was missing!
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The thing with Jonny is that you always expect him to slot the kicks, whereas with Charlie Hodgson the thought was always 'well, it would be nice if you could get this one'. It just shows the difference between an consistent goalkicker and an inconsistent one. Would Charlie have knocked the two touchline conversions and the penalty from just inside his own half? I know thats only 7 points, but against Ireland and Wales 7 points could make all the difference. In the two years, we've lost too many matches by small margins because we havent made the kicks (11-9 vs Wales, 17-18 vs France, 18-12 vs Scotland, 24-28 (I think) vs Ireland spring to mind)
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It wasn't bad all in all and as a fan of England have had precious little to be happy about in England's recent performances.
Great to see JW back in harness, not 'cos the English media have decided he's the messaih of English rugby, but because he's had a s*** run of injuries and he fared well in his return game.
Certainly, one swallow does not a summer make but anybody seeing the first swallow of summer can't helped but be bouyed somewhat by the whole team's performance.
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Let's not forget the change of manager for England - did you read Andy Robinson's piece yesterday on why he wouldn't pick Jonny Wilkinson???
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Great performance by Wilko, and for once an English sportsmen can talk the talk and walk the walk.
The rest of the England team were mediocre and had it not been for Wilkinson's kicking, the scoreline wouldn't have flattered the performance.
Reading some of the Sunday newspapers this morning, I can see the now predicatble English media are already jumping on the World Cup bandwagon stating that they can win it. Made me chuckle as England are still worlds away from the level that NZ are setting.
Truth be told, the England team are a mediocre side without Wilkinson.
Some posters on this board ought to take a good look at yourselves. If Scotland had scored an 'illegal' try, then there would be an uprorar, but because it was England you have that 'we'll let that one go because he deserved it' attitude.
It was a good Wilkinson performance against an average Scotland side and would have been much closer without Wilkinson's points tally.
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There were far too many mistakes and silly bits if ill discipline from England. I would like to see Brian Ashton really work on getting rid of those from the game.
The side that won the world cup was highly discplined, and wouldn't have given so many penalties and so much possesion.
A great win, great relief, but a long way to go on the road to recovery
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Charlie who??!
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finally england play well but are scotland any good well they are but not as strong as france or ireland.this was not one of englands harder tasks but they deserve praise especially jonny what a true great!
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Dave, Ian and co: I didn't think Scotland were "humiliated". It's very hard for any side to look good when their pack is under the cosh. You really missed Jason White. On the positive side I would put Cusiter, Parks and Paterson.
Cusiter because his service under pressure is so good. If it was a bit slow from time to time I'd be more inclined to credit the English defence than blame him.
Parks for an educated boot that put Robinson under pressure. Never sneer at the ability to pin a side in its own 22!
Paterson for sheer class and courage. Didn't show much in attack because there weren't that many chances, but if he made a defensive error I didn't see it (though my vision of the last 20 mins was a bit blurry!)
If you can do something about the pack the world will look very different.
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As a Scot I was pretty disappointed in our performance at Twickenham but I was pleased to see Johnny Wilkinson get back in the groove. He is an excellent ambassador for the sport and is not in the least arrogant, a true professional. England are still boring, of course, and arent on the same planet as the mighty All Blacks who are descended from Scots!
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It was a game for Heros, Jonny and Harry stepped up to the mark. Still a long long way to go before we reach the true potential of the team, I'd be happy to see two England players busting a gut to support Harry whenever he breaks - and actually getting there - Jonny did it once and scored a cracking try (on another day it may have been disallowed but it was a beautiful bit of Rugby). Not sure if Ashton has the time or will be given the authority to bring individuals and the team back to their best in time for the WC but we owe it to the players to give him the chance.
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Gemma at 69 seems to be contradicting herself a bit. If we were relying on Johnny then why are you appreciating the fact Ellis was the best player on the park :/
Anyway. An 'easy' victory against the Italians and hopefully we can carry renewed confidence into the Irish match. The type of game we played today was perfect, let the forwards rampage (with a bit more discipline please!) and pray that Johnny et al can keep their three-quarters at bay. 'If' we were to win that then maybe we could actually begin to think about the unthinkable
P.S. Was it me or did Corry look so so much better without the captaincy hanging over him?
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This article and some of the responses are prime examples of why other British nations detest England winning at any sporting event.
This arrogance will never win England any fans even when their performance deserves it - and this performance was nothing to gloat about.
If that is the best that England can offer then I will watch the World Cup with great anticipation. The top teams (of which I really don't think England currently are one of) will tear through this England team with ease if Scotland are able to inflict this damage.
There is no denying Scotland were poor but what does it say about England when the scoreline still flattered their performance? Furthermore, questions have to be asked of the video replay judge after awarding a try to Wilkinson? Was this guy drunk, on drugs, being payed a backhander or simply just incompetent? Although it probably wouldn't have changed the eventual outcome, it could have given Scotland some hope and made for a better end to the game.
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Dave's post 31 is not right, he's probably a wounded scot with a huge chip on his shoulder, like most of them have towards the English. Maybe it's because we don't pay them enough attention, and sometimes forget they are there. Dave's a sore loser, Jonny Wilkinson first international game in an England jumper in 3 years, and he scores 27 individual points, and creams the ball all around the field and in between the sticks. Dave, if you like stirring things up, wait until you get that wooden spoon. At least then you'll look the part.
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A short and impossibly biased list of modern day sporting superstars allowing for the recently retired:
England: Wilkinson, Flintoff (yes, despite the shambles). Debatable: Rooney, Owen, Beckham, Pietersen, Johnson rtd
Ireland: O'Driscoll
N.Ire: Clarke
Scotland:
Wales:
France: Zidane rtd, Henry
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I am pleased.
Very pleased.
One victory and the English media and many English fans think they are fantastic.
Again.
The fall, which will come soon, will now be all the harder.
And that will be a lot of fun to watch!
Why do you folks keep on doing this to yourself?
Jock
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Come on Alan, I'm an Irishman, and even though oppressed for 800 years and all that I've gotta take my hat off to Jonny.
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Can't help but agree with the above post. Sure, it was an impressive performance - but like others have said, it was against a stodgy, pedestrian Scottish side, and frankly anything would be better than the tripe England have produced in the last year or so. Secondly, the tactics were effective - but oh-so reminiscent of their 'ball up the jumper' rolling maul antics which soon stagnated. The call-up of some 'old faces' echoes this. Your solid forward platform was key - but I wonder what will happen if that advantage disappears?
Either way, a solid performance, good luck against the Irish!
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jockface mackinnon: Why, to keep you happy of course! Why else? (Goes and hides behind sofa. grin.)
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Mr Wilkinson should be an ambassador for sport, not like the self opinionated, highly paid footballers we have. A credit to the nation thats what he is...........
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I realise that blogs like this are a good arena for opposing opinions but we seem to be seeing the extremes!
Yes, Scotland didn't play as well as they should, or could, have. England need to win by that sort of margin against better sides than that before anglophiles will begrudgingly admit that they have started to find their form again.
Yes, there were infringements on both sides that went unnoticed - everyone that's moaning about the try that wasn't should lambast the TMO, not Jonny or England - his moral stance and work ethic is such that he would never be happy taking the credit for something that never was.
Bottom line - there were some bloody good players putting in some damn good performances yesterday but there was, as always, room for improvement. English fans have unfortunately got used to their team just turning up for the last 3 years; yesterday they actually played some rugby and it was a long time coming. As for JW, the guy had managed to stay focused and hungry enough to walk back on the pitch as if he'd never been away, despite the "drought of 1000 days" - the man's a credit to rugby and all it stands for - it's about time the Gods smiled on him for a while - how about the anglophiles out there apply some sportsmanship and let us get excited about it? No, I didn't think so, but it was worth the ask! :0)
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The BBC commentators almost wet themselves every time an English player touched the ball biased or what !! as for "jw's" try. what try?
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We all feel very happy at Jonny's "miraculous" return; but lets not forget that NONE of it would happen at all if it wasn't for Harry Ellis. He is now stepping up and into Dawson's boots, and whilst he does a different job, he looked great. We finally have some world beating half-backs. I can't wait for the world cup, because everyone thought that we were going to be rubbish due to the post victory retirements. However the whole team has proved that we can now dominate in the forwards like we used to and have the backs to follow up there work. I just hope that we can do it against bigger and better teams, its only going to get harder in this competition.
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Superhuman performance from Jonny Wilkinson and fantastic to watch.
I think we should have a whip round and buy a very large roll of cotton wool so we can preserve him for the rest of the six nations and the world cup!
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scotland nothing..........england world champs at this very moment. so close the lid on your laptop mate and go have a cup of tea
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was a great game but people seem to forgetting the hard work put in by the pack to win good ball and suck in scottish defenders, farrel was great imo and can't wait to see him against harder opposition. people say the english are being once more built up for a fall but the truth is we have always had the players and result in the the H cup prove it. are league is strong and competitive with top players coming from teams throught the league unlike ireland with players manly comming from leinster and munster. before bonding was a problem but the new simpler common sence rugby england seem to playin now that shouldn't be a big problem.
come on england
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So that victory still only makes it 2 wins in the last 10 for England....oh yes what an astonishing record. I think we should just calm down quite a bit considering one of our tries was from a lucky break when lamont missed the ball...and another try was given when it wasnt even a try. Considering that if these hadn't happened, the scoreline would have been totally different at a crucial time in the game, and we were very static for many periods of the game, When scotland brought on some dynamism in the midfield, it obviously immediately exposed our failings and we merely benefited from playing a scotland team that were well under-par. We are still extremely vulnerable and this hype and excitement is only going to come back and slap us in the face.
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I think the main thing that stood out for me was the amount of hits he took. He was in the thick of it at almost every phase.
Lets be honest here how many of us were worried during the first half, if he was going to last the game.
Good luck to the lad and by god what a game he played. If you look at the game again and watch him giving out instructions to the back line, he was reading the game as though it was a teenager reading a Noddy and Big ears book.
I'm a Springbok fan but watching that game, was a brilliant game to watch and a nice warm up game for the team.
I didn't Harry Ellis coming into that game but I take my hat off to him, as he had a blinder of a game. He was thinking the whole game and his concentration never wandered.
Damn the England team nearly had me singing Sweet Chariots.
Good Luck England and Mr Ashton well done for having the guts to select a side that you did as it paid off.
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You can say anything you like about Jonny Wilkinson but what cannot be denied is his single minded determination to be the best.
I think many of the pundits (e.g. Jeremy Guscott) are ultimately under achievers. I think that Mr. Guscott had more natural talent than Jonny but achieved far less, largely because he was not as dedicated.
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Can we all just get a grip please? Yes I am Scottish and was highly disappointed with our performance yesterday but England only put proper ground between them and us in the 2nd half.
In the first they were indisciplined, lacked ideas and apart from Wilkinson, ran flat and were slow to move the ball. Scotland lacked ideas, fitness, pace and power and deserved to lose.
Wilko's try was not a try and the TMO needs to be demoted a long way. England can't be complacent - they'll need to play much better to beat the French or Irish.
And yes, Dan Carter is still the best number 10 in world rugby - sorry guys!
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Love it - as usual we get accused of over blowing how things are and we get the usual kiwi/ aussie know it alls appearing telling us how crap we are and how we always fail. Yes I know the Ashes was a whitewash, but boys face reality you lost in 2005 and I suspect when England regain themselves you will lose the urn to the pommes in 2009. I don't think you lot realise how much has changed in this country sporting wise since the mid-90s. We are alot more setup mentally and logistically to regularly come back as a nation in a lot of sports. 2003/ 2005 and every Olympic games since 2000 are just the start of a resurgence in English and British sport which has found a voice - and expect to have to take a lot more stick when we do come and beat you home and away.
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Stop going on abt johnny wilkinson! hes not that great - and a team isnt built on one player as most english fans seem to think. personally didnt think he deserved the man of the match - harry ellis should have got that - hes one to watch....
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As an Englishman, yesterday I received two valuable and timely lessons. The one bestowed upon me pride the other shame.
Humility. Thank you Mr Wilkinson and thank you the Scottish Team, who said not a word of complaint about that try.
Arrogance. Thank you Mr Moore. Is there no-one who can fill the shoes of Bill McLaren? I suppose not, a true gentlemen who always gave credit where it was due, especially when it wasn’t Scotland
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Here we go again one win against a Scotland team ,that quite frankly didnt get off the bus and suddenly the World Cup is there for the winning.I will make a predition now that England will beat Italy and then lose the next three games unless of course they get Jonker as a referee again and Donal Courtney as the TMO.How George Chuter was never shown a yellow card in that game is beyond belief consistantly over the ball and hardley penalised and he wasnt alone.
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Two things to put in perspective. Firstly Wilkinson had a point to prove and did it - that alone can make you perform amazingly. Secondly Harry Ellis did really well, but that is only one performance. I have seen him put in a number of dire ones for both England and Leicester.
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Miraculous indeed, not many people could get away with such a try with video referees. On the other hand some fantastic kicking something that the English team has been missing. Can't forget the brilliant performance that Ellis had in getting the ball out to Wilkinson, and the pack in securing the ball before that. We should probably wait until England face a bigger challenge than Scotland before heralding Wilkinson the messiah of English rugby. Glad to see he's back however, hopefully he'll be fit for the last match against us Welsh.
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I havent seen anything like it. Even a few Kilted Scots were applauding here when he finally left the pitch. From Legend bar in Kuala Lumpur.
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Wilko and Harry Ellis they where the stars of that game, let's hope they can keep this team spirit and hope lasting all the way through the six nations.
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I havent seen anything like it. Even a few Kilted Scots were applauding here when he finally left the pitch. From Legend bar in Kuala Lumpur. Dare I say it, It felt like the second coming.
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Has anyone noticed that whenever England is awarded a dodgy try (re. Jonnie's fluke awarded by the TMO), the losing head Coach (Haddon in this case) jumps up and down? Even AR for all his faults kept a dignified silence over such things. Never mind eh, the other nations will always rip into us whatever we do. A good starting point for England to build with creditable performances from more that one player on the pitch - as I said, SOMETHING TO BUILD FROM.
Some of my fellow Englishmen who are predicting 6 Nations and World Cup wins are pure idiots who only serve to inflame anti-Engilshness in other nations. Learn some humility, idiots, learn from JW
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Jock post 99...
Don't you think that after waiting for 3 years for undoubtedly one of the best fly halves ever to return to our squad, getting a manager who knows what he's doing, and actually winning, aren't we allowed to be a bit happy?
Sure, it was only a mediocre Scotland side..but we still won..which to be honest, we probably wouldn't have done a year ago.
So why dont you let us have our glory, even if its only for a week or two.
And lets face it, if your not English, then youre scareed that Jonny's back, maybe even better than he was before.
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Got to love these boards. hyperbole followed by baiting. it was a decent performance by England. They set a benchmark. Yes they won ugly but they won! A lot of the things that have were missing in the autumn there was leadership, lots of talking and an inside centre who actually looked to ship the ball rather than run down a blind alley. ilkinson made his kicks which is a crucial part of all successful international rugby teams not just the english! The All Blacks win games because Carter is metronomic, Ireland win games because of O'Gara and so on. I have read some of the other discussions and the other supporters are just as passionate and in some deluded as the English so why is that only the English are considered arrogant!
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An amazing display by Wilkinson and Ellis - and Farrell outside Wilko seemed to give the team some structure. They weren't anywhere near as flat as they were in the autumn - proving Farrell's Rugby brain - even at such an early stage in his career within Union - is working wonders. I thought Tindall had a powerful, dynamic game too.
I agree, England were given far too much space by the Scots, and this somewhat allowed Ellis to shine... but you can only put away what's in front of you and England did that with aplomb. I was a little dissapointed we conceded 20 points though.
One thought about Wilkinson - with him losing 3 years of his career; is he going to be able to carry on at such a high standard way into his 30's? Here's hoping!
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1st things 1st all teams get lucky sometimes! I don't emember too many (non english) posters getting irate when England were denied a perfectly good try against the All Blacks in November and would there be quite so much discussion if the only piece of controversy had the Scots try been the only thing that the officials had missed OR if the referee/touch judge penalised the Scotsman who took Lewsey out to stop a certain try in the 1st half? Realistically England were decent, they set a benchmark for a minimum performance! They can and I hope will play better than this. A lot of the things that have been missing from Englands game in the autumn were present yesterday The scrum functioned , there was leadership all over the pitch, Farrell had a good if unremarkable game and did the basics well, having a real openside proved to be a good idea (Mr Robinson) and paid dividends, Worsley did his bit. In short England still have work to do but it was a good start
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Post 97 trevor
Well I am not a jock. All I said was as usual the hype is over the top-you get one win and all of a sudden you will win the WC, and all is good.
I made no mention of JW at all, but I will stand by my claim that you will not come close to winning the WC. That my Engliash friend is not hype, its a fact.
You and the English press should try the same!
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There can be no doubt that Wilkinson's performance yesterday was nothing short of incredible and i would like to congratulate him on his emphatic return to form.
However, the standard of rugby displayed by both teams yesterday was at times quite appauling. While it might be okay to take some comfort in the fact that England have their first win under their belt and managed to dispose of the Scots quite easily in the end it must be pointed out that they are by no means showing any signs of their world cup winning form. England might look impressive against a team like Scotland but put them on the pitch in Croke Park or Stade de France against quality opposition and i think we'll see where this team really stand.
The Six Nations competition this year will be a two horse race between Ireland and France and anyone who believes otherwise is in need of a reality check.
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Oh dear James, you've got the inhabitants of Russet House upset at us.......again!
Seriously though, great to see JW back again and in good form AND a scrum-half that looks as if someone might be able to fill the void there after Dawson.
Still worries me though though that no-one else around at number 10 worth mentioning at the mo.
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Post 97 trevor
Well I am not a jock. All I said was as usual the hype is over the top-you get one win and all of a sudden you will win the WC, and all is good.
I made no mention of JW at all, but I will stand by my claim that you will not come close to winning the WC. That my Engliash friend is not hype, its a fact.
You and the English press should try the same!
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There can be no doubt that Wilkinson's performance yesterday was nothing short of incredible and i would like to congratulate him on his emphatic return to form.
However, the standard of rugby displayed by both teams yesterday was at times quite appauling. While it might be okay to take some comfort in the fact that England have their first win under their belt and managed to dispose of the Scots quite easily in the end it must be pointed out that they are by no means showing any signs of their world cup winning form. England might look impressive against a team like Scotland but put them on the pitch in Croke Park or Stade de France against quality opposition and i think we'll see where this team really stand.
The Six Nations competition this year will be a two horse race between Ireland and France and anyone who believes otherwise is in need of a reality check.
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Reply to 83.
45 years watching England on the BBC and we have never had an English commentator. A Scot for 40 odd years an now a Welshman. Loose the chip!
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Ok, I am scottish and I think England totally deserved to win.
They were the better team in the forwards. However I have to point out that if wilkinson wasnt playing Scotland would have won.
The display by Jonny was awesome, he controlled the game well(few loose kicks and passes but its been a while).
Without him however england are a poor team. It shows by the results over the past three years.
When he retires England wont have a player good enough to take over.
And as for that Try, the fourth official should not be allowed to officiate any other games this year. My 7 month old niece could have called that better. And my Wife who has no idea of the rules of Rugby or anny other sport for that matter even could tell his not only his foot but his shin and knee was scraping the ground prior to the ball going down.
Just point out this isnt sour grapes and i think scotland just didnt play well enough!!
And phil from bristol thanks for being probably being one of the few English that understands how much hype is made about future chances by one result. Thats why the other nations get worked up. Media coverage is so biased and over hyped.
Every major tournament in every sporting event the media make out that the English team is going to wipe the floor with all the opposition. It just doesnt happen. And i believe the players get sick of it too having to constantly try not letting down the nation, i feel for them
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Very well done Jonny. Anyone will think youve been training for the last few years instead of being injured! yesterdays game was amazing! keep it up!!
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JW is a good 10 and does not merit this deificiation by the media. he is one of a team of 22, no less no more and is honest enough to say this himself.
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Well i was really looking forward to the game, a new coach, old faces back in the team and young blood to give us the boost. And i wasnt dissapointed. Yes there were moments that we looked a little shaky but as a feet finding game it couldnt have gone much better.
Simple things like playing players where they play for club played off, take note for future reference Mr Robinson.
Phil Vickery's appointment as captain is a sound decision, i never thought Martin Corry had it in him to be honest, the perferct example being last year against Scotland, we needed the captain to pull the forwards together but he just seemed unable too, compare that to Phil weathering the storm and bringing us out kicking and screaming was fantastic to watch yesterday.
Harry Ellis in my eyes was by far and away man of the match, yes Johnny was amazing but that performance cant be allowed to overshadow a good performance by the entire team. I know it wasnt perfect but after 8 straight losses that was a damn good comeback.
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What a load of garbage. England fans get wound up by an uninspiring victory in any sport. Wilkinson hits a couple of drop goals against an injury ravaged Scotland and he's described as 'miraculous'. However, to put it in perspective you're not going to win the Six Nations, or the Rugby World Cup, and you never won the Ashes or the FIFA World Cup so I suppose you're as well enjoying the moment, as English sport is a genuinely grim affair.
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Why, oh why, as a Scottish Licence payer do I have to suffer from the inane comments from such a biased summariser as Brian Moore. I am not a sore loser, England were the better team, even with the blind Irish television judge. But to have to listen to Moore is just excruciating. Can I have a refund on my licence please?
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i see the link to complain about the comments but where is the option to complain about the article itself?!
miraculous? ridiculous.
yes, he made a great return to the squad, and i am glad he is back in the game and fit again (and yes i'm a scot!) but please get a grip - is this england getting nervy about the world cup already?! don't worry i'm sure you still have a chance even if he isn't fit come the time...
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Well done England, please BBC can you find some decent commentators, these two yesterday were diabolical, all they did was argue with each other, Oh how we miss Bill McLaren.
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From the slo-mo shots after he popped a conversion/drop goal/penalty, to Brian Moore & Eddie Butler's commentary, the BBC's commentary was deeply homoerotic towards Mr Wilkinson. He played well too.
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Come on people, wilkinson played a lot? yes, but he is far from being this god you are portraying him as.The guy did distribute the ball well thru the backline and and all, he did gave that quick pass to robinson for the try (and had a couple of nice hits as usual, he's the best tackling flyhalf to me), and - as usual - had his drop goal.Now, let's be real, england were facing a weak scottish defence, apart from Cusiter and Paterson (this game must have reminded the auld days when he used to carry scotland on his back! at least he had Cusiter to help him out) the scottish side really didn't play to their full potential.
Anyway, this "Wilko fever" just outshines the performance of fine english palyers like Ellis (man of the match to me),Lund, vickery and Tindall.
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Simply breathtaking. I really forgot how good he was to watch, he entertained yesterday. The whole squad put on a performance the England have not had for at least two years.
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Despite Jonny Wilkinson's comeback, England are Still light years behind the the Allblacks. Scotland are a speck of dust compared to the Allblacks so it will be interesting to see how Jonny Wilikinson will fair against the best team in the world.
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Despite Jonny Wilkinson's comeback, England are Still light years behind the the Allblacks. Scotland are a speck of dust compared to the Allblacks so it will be interesting to see how Jonny Wilikinson will fair against the best team in the world.
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Yesterday's game was the first England match I've watched in a long time - wanted to see how the new coach did (change should have been made long ago!) and primarily to see Jonny's first match back after going thro so many hellish injuries. I wasn't dissappointed - he and the team's effort were brilliant. Oh, sure there's a very long way to go, and there were some pretty daft decisions in both team's favour, but how can you not admire a man who comes back after so long, after so little time on the field and yet he plays like that! Not just the kicking, his total involvement, tackling (much to my husband's dismay in case of injury!), calling the shots and - imo the turning point of the game - the drop goal so soon after Scotland had scored - completely drained the opposition at a crucial time. Now that's class. And for those who say the game shouldn't rely on one man and his kicking ability - I guess Jonny would be the first to say that the team has to get him into those positions so that he can be effective. Perhaps some of the other number 10s who want to claim that place should put in the hours of practice and level of commitment he does - then maybe England would have more to choose from. I was once again able to feel proud of a team that started well on the road to building themselves into a winning force. OK - there's a long way to go, but let's hope for England and rugby in general's sake that Jonny stays fit - both need him, his work ethic, his professionalism and his complete humility.
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May be a liitle over the top - but don't forget the confidence that Jonny brings to the rest of the team. I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned Brian Ashton's part in the success. By and large, he is working with the same players but his input will have been instrumental in their belief and confidence in themselves as they stepped onto the turf. These rofessional players were as fit and skilful in the Autumn as they are now - but something's made a difference.... and don't for a minute think that he put Wilkinson and Farrell in the team unless he knew what they were capable of. Go Brian!
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Great performance Jonny. i think harry ellis deserved man of the match though.
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Don't forget, Jonny's try was not a try, and Jason's 2nd was a freakish mistake, if it weren't for those, it would have been 28-20. England will have to do alot better against the likes of Ireland and France if they want to do well.
Ellis and Wilkinson were awesome, get rid of Di Rollo for Scotland, he's mince!
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Good performance, not vintage but a great step forward. These first two weeks are all about gaining confidence to play good rugby. Scotland's creativity lacked and Harry Ellis ran them ragged. Very impressed with Harry, Jonny was solid but expected and from that platform the rest of the team finally look rejuvinated. Big Phil and Joe were awesome up front for a deserving win. Against France or Ireland we'll have to be better but yesterday was special for JW,the ovation he recieved was spine tingling.
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Harry Ellis came good after a slow start and Jonny's performance was remarkable, but let's leave the exaggerations and the ridiculous hype to the media: this was a hot-and-cold display from England against an uninspiring Scotland side. Ireland, Wales and France would have properly stuffed Scotland yesterday.
It was a promising start but Ireland, Wales and France all played better than Enlgand this weekend.
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Good performance, not vintage but a great step forward. These first two weeks are all about gaining confidence to play good rugby. Scotland's creativity lacked and Harry Ellis ran them ragged. Very impressed with Harry, Jonny was solid but expected and from that platform the rest of the team finally look rejuvinated. Big Phil and Joe were awesome up front for a deserving win. Against France or Ireland we'll have to be better but yesterday was special for JW,the ovation he recieved was spine tingling.
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Very interesting to note Andy Robinson's pre match comments that JW wasn't ready! Still making bad errors even after vacating the head coach role!
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What a game!!! it's great to have Jonny back in the team!! he is amazing!! It was a great team work too!! I loved watching it! Go England!
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Wasn't it just the nicest change to see some kicks go over?! I mean, when 'the one' himself was playing before all 9 of his horrific (both for him and us) injuries, we took thoses monstrous, 50m kicks for granted- 3 points in the bag, thankyou very much. The Twickenham faithful, in recent years, have almost come to expect that Hodgson (a very fine attacking player, if at club level) will get a goal-kicking percentage of, at best, 30%. But now.... how the tables have turned. I just hope the pressure of expectancy won't get to Wilkinson for the rest of the tournament.
The good thing, also, was the fact that he wasn't under any pressure throughout the game because of the superb performance delivered by leicester's harry ellis, for he kept the scottish guessing. It didn't always go straight back to Johnny for the easy in-the-pocet drop goal. A few sniping runs here and there, made sure that they had to be on their toes for scrambling back, consequently giving You-Know-Who all the time in the world to strut his stuff, and orchestrate the game, along with Farrell, very well, with improvements, inevitably, still to come. The scrum half is what made the game for me.
Keep it up England, but let's not get cocky now, after all, it was Scotland! (who unfortunately, at best, will scrape a win against Italy).
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Let's be happy about the result and the fact that the team is rolling again.
Being happy does not mean bragging, assuming future victories or firing out crass managerial-type predictions about the rest of the 6N and WC. Enjoy the winning feeling but keep humble! So many feather-headed chumps in England never learn the value of modesty and focus.
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Great to see Johnny back, and Im Irish! I don't agree with the comment that Wilko is better than Carter. Carter is, like the All Blacks, miles ahead of anyone else, simple as. About the match, not trying to piss on yer parade here, but Scotland aren't the greatest team in the world, teaming with mediocrity yet they still notched 20 points up on ye. Wilkos try was blatantly not a try, but you get those lucky calls every now again, which my team got today, admitedly. If Wilko hadn't scored and Lamont hadn't dropped that ball in the Scots try area, it would have been alot closer. Still though, first week formalities are over with, Ireland France next week, then Ireland England promise to be immense!! Can't wait!
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Let's be happy about the result and the fact that the team is rolling again.
Being happy does not mean bragging, assuming future victories or firing out crass managerial-type predictions about the rest of the 6N and WC. Enjoy the winning feeling but keep humble! So many feather-headed chumps in England never learn the value of modesty and focus.
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Post 135 - Paul said
"The Six Nations competition this year will be a two horse race between Ireland and France and anyone who believes otherwise is in need of a reality check."
Would have agreed with you mate, up to todays terrific game at Cardiff where I thought the structure of the Irish was seriously threatened by with what I thought an inspirationally gutsy Welsh performance.
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Back from the brink?
It's slightly frustrating to see a small minority of people knocking the performace yesterday. Whilst it wasn't as convincing as some people think it's certainly a step in the right direction considering what has gone on in the past 18 months.
I think it's certainly worth considering the following points:
1) Great Performance? Lets not kid ourselves, Scotland were poor even in there supposed strong areas such as the line out. We also let a very soft try at the death.
2) A number of people have critised Jonny's performance and making comparisons with Dan Carter.
I agree Dan Carter is arguably the best fly half in the world at present. But has he really been in comparble pressure situations that Wilkinson has? No, and this really is the telling difference between the two. Only the World Cup will really tell, and if both meet one another at one of the stages of the competition. It's worth noting one has the edge over the other, experience.
3) Jonny's Return. Do not underestimate the pschological effect of such a compelling performance both on the individual and the team. Note AF's comments in both the Daily Mail and Telegraph.
When the boy is on song he does give England a 10 to 12 point advantage and makes teams think twice about infringing.
4) The All Blacks. Personally I love watching them play the game, it is a great sight to watch when they are on song. However, they are the biggest chokers in World Rugby!!! How many times have they either come into a World Cup as favourites or peaked too soon and then failed to get even to the final. Australia always seem to find the magic formula more often than not and should not be as readily dismissed as we all think.
All in all it was a good performance yesterday but there is still along way to go before the end of the Tournment. It would take a miracle for us to get anywhere near a WC Final in Paris, but hey maybe, just maybe, the waters may have just started to part with the return of the prodigal son yesterday afternoon.
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Remarkable comeback by JW, but surprised to see the head-on-tackles, with head unprotected, as before. As Hadden pointed out, two close calls/decisions the other way & a 28-20 win would have been abysmal. England's failure to cross the Scots line in the first 15 mins. will requires Ashton's attention, where punts to the corner would have yielded more points. Ellis at last brings S. hemisphere style to scrum 1/2. Huge platform on which to build - but we've miles to go yet.
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