BBC.co.uk

Ireland v England player ratings

  • Phil Harlow - BBC Sport journalist
  • 24 Feb 07, 05:48 PM

Phil Harlowire_badge.gif eng_badge.gif
Ireland produced a tremendous display to record their best ever win over England in a pulsating encounter at Croke Park.

See if you agree with my ratings for both sides.

IRELAND:

Dempsey - 6: Ran in a simple try, and was brave under the high ball. As Ireland turned on the style in the second half, found himself in the line more and more. An unsung hero in a superb team performance.

Horgan - 7: Gave opposite number David Strettle something of a lesson in the realities of international rugby, and ran some excellent lines off his centres. Took his try well, and caused problems every time he touched the ball.

B O'Driscoll - 7: Showed exactly what Ireland had been missing last week with a classy performance. Ran through his full range of skills with ball in hand, and was his usual dependable presence in defence.

D'Arcy - 7: Quiet early on, but a touch of genius - flicking a terrible pass between his legs to keep the move going - led to Dempsey's opening try. Had the measure of Farrell in defence, and thoroughly enjoyed himself in attack.

Hickie - 6: Always comfortable with ball in hand, Hickie did not get as many chances to impress as some of his colleagues in the back-line but did everything he had to with applomb.

O'Gara - 9: Totally outshone opposite man Jonny Wilkinson, his kicking out of hand pinned England back time and again, while his cross-kick gave Horgan his try on a plate. Add in his faultless goal-kicking, and there is very little to criticise.

Stringer - 6: Some occasionally sloppy service and kicking, but had the luxury of playing behind a dominant pack, and made the most of it. Made one crucial tap tackle on Harry Ellis to stop a potential breakaway dead in its tracks.

Horan - 6: Gave nothing away in the scrum, and was much more evident in the loose than his English counterparts. Showed his kicking skills as well with one punt to touch when Ireland were under pressure.

R Best - 7: Ireland's line-out went like a dream and Best can take full credit for his role in that, as well as for his impressive display in the tight.

Hayes - 7: Another fine display in the Ireland front row. The often criticised prop was in tears during the pre-match anthems, and he converted that emotion into a good all-round display

O'Callaghan - 7: Gave his usual all-action performance, and was a key part in Ireland's forward dominance. His athleticism in the line-out was up to his usual standards.

O'Connell - 9: One of the best performances of the Munster lock's career. Imperious in the line-out, on Irish and English ball, and a menacing, aggressive presence all over the pitch. Totally lived up to his reputation and just pipped O'Gara to the man of the match award.

S Easterby - 7: Did all the unglamorous work often at the bottom of a pile of bodies. England got very little quick ball, and Easterby's presence on the field may well have had something to do with that.

D Wallace - 8: Another outstanding performance from Wallace. Took his first-half try well, driving through three English defenders and was always among the first on hand at every breakdown.

Leamy - 6: Slightly quieter than some of his colleagues in attack, Leamy just got on with the job in hand, which was tackling anything in a white shirt and clearing out every ruck.

Replacements

Flannery - 6: Kept Ireland's momentum going, hitting rucks with enthusiasm and getting ball in hand on a couple of occasions.

Boss - 6: Grabbed an interception try during his few minutes on the field.

Other replacements did not get a chance to earn a mark.

ENGLAND:

Morgan - 6: Defended bravely in difficult conditions early on, but was forced off by a shoulder injury after 30 minutes before he'd really got going.

Lewsey - 5: Some good moments, but needed to rely on his upper body strength on a few occasions to get himself out of tight corners that bad decision-making had got him into. Knocked-on when in the clear in the second half, and simply unable to compete with the significantly taller Horgan for Ireland's third try.

Tindall - 5: With England's backs enjoying little by way of possession, Tindall did not get the chance to shine. Held by O'Driscoll over the line, but his charged-down kick at the start of the second half was just what England didn't want.

Farrell - 4: The former rugby league man was exposed by O'Driscoll and D'Arcy. Seemed out of kilter with his team-mates in defence, and gave away a penalty after getting isolated in possession. Improved after the break, but has it been too much, too soon for the Saracens man?

Strettle - 6: Not the best game to make your international debut in, but the Harlequins youngster can be proud of his display. Showed finishing of the highest class to squeeze in at the corner and did his best not to be bullied by opposite man Horgan.

Wilkinson - 5: Goal-kicking apart, a disappointing display from a player England needed to be firing on all cylinders. Not able to get the backline moving with much fluency, although he was starved of possession for much of the match.

Ellis - 5: Something of a return to the bad old days after a good start to the Six Nations. With his forwards struggling to gain parity, Ellis kicked poorly and found himself scragged on more than one occasion, as well as getting pinged for a crooked feed. A couple of half breaks could not paper over the cracks.

Freshwater - 5: If England were expecting to exploit a supposedly fragile Ireland scrum, they were disappointed. Substituted just after the break, after England's creaking scrum had conceded a penalty.

Chuter - 4: Ireland were all over England's line-out and while it is not just Chuter's fault, the Leicester hooker needs to take his share of the blame. Lacked nothing in effort, but unable to make an impression.

Vickery - 4: Looked to be struggling to keep up with the pace at some stages, while he was part of the scrum that was not at ease with itself. Is he another player rushed (back) into the international set-up too soon?

Deacon - 5: A hard-working display, but nothing to write home about from Deacon. Thoroughly outdone by O'Connell and O'Callaghan.

Grewcock - 5: The veteran lock was sin-binned for a cynical foul at the breakdown with the score at 9-3. When he returned 10 minutes later, the score was 23-3. Not a match to remember for Grewcock.

Worsley - 6: Did plenty of work on the floor, and put in some big hits but could not turn the tide. Nothing to be ashamed about in his performance but will have enjoyed happier days in a white shirt.

Lund - 4: Consistently slower to the breakdown than the outstanding David Wallace, and struggled to make an impact. Looked to have been shaken by his misjudged, and highly dangerous, tackle on Girvan Dempsey for which he should have been sin-binned. Cannot have been surprised to have been taken off at half-time.

Corry - 6: A mixed bag. Did well in the line-out and tackled strongly but gave away penalties, and was almost anonymous in possession.

Replacements:

Tait - 6: Got 50 minutes to impress and made a brave tackle on Shane Horgan early on. Blotted his copy-book with a bad knock-on after being put in the clear by Lewsey's inside pass, but showed some impressive strength when barging potential tacklers out of the way.

White - 5: Shored up the scrum, but conceded an absolutely brainless penalty for stamping just as England were building some momentum at the start of the second half.

Palmer - 5: Made little impression after coming on for Grewcock, although there is little he could have done to change the result.

Rees - 6: One of England's better forwards after replacing Magnus Lund, showing real enthusiasm for work in the tight and out wide.

Perry - 4: Given a couple of minutes at the end, and threw an interception pass to Isaac Boss for Ireland's final try.

Other replacements did not get a chance to earn a mark.


Comments  Post your comment

  • 1.
  • At 08:24 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Ed2003 wrote:

I think you're a bit harsh on the England backs. I thought they actually created about the same as their Irish counterparts. It was just the last pass that was either knocked-on or the forwards not retaining possesion at a break-down which made it seem like there was little penetration.

The English forwards were pretty awful and the Ireland forwards showed a lot of intensity and composure. That's where the game was won and lost.

Well done to Ireland.

  • 2.
  • At 08:42 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • AshFell wrote:

Wake up England selection panel!
Having just witnessed what can only be described as a disgrace full performance isn't it about time we as a nation woke up?
The front 5 are a joke, Freshwater was close to useless, Chuter couldn't throw or scrummage if his life depended on, and Vickery having made next to no appearance's through injury for the last 2 years was terrible, I was fortunate enough to see his 1st proffessional appearance for Glos, and he was binding on the arm even then, you CANNOT teach an old dog new tricks!
Danny Grewcock was his usually terrible self and could scarcely go a game with out a yellow, and i would be intrigued to know what if anything Deacon brings to the English pack?
Corry was also rubbish, why? when we have some of the best young forwards in the world in the premiership do we insist on picking these useless "journey men"?
Although JW is one of the best kickers in the worl he proved today that he has sadly lost all the other abilities that made him the worlds best Fly Half.
And I can only assume that we have all proven Farrell to be a total waste of space all he has shown to be is a bad shadow for Tindall, a man who constantly gives his all!
Dave Strettle had a superb debut but will undoubtedly be dropped for for another journey man who can seem to do no wrong in the eyes of the selectors JR!
And well done Olly Morgan, sadly injured thanks to falling awkwardly from O'Driscolls forgetten disgracefull foul, Olly is the future at 15 for England no question!
Thats it, rant over, bring on the backlash!?

  • 3.
  • At 08:43 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • jamie smith wrote:

England were very poor today. Well done Ireland. To blame Andy Farrell exclusively is wrong. The forwards were never in the game. Faz is big & skillful, but doesn't have the pace to play centre. Stand off is more his position, kicking, offloading & passing his strength, as in league. He never played in the outside backs for Wigan or Great Britain during his league career. Why now for England RU?

  • 4.
  • At 08:45 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • s lawson wrote:

A much heavier pack yet pusged off the ball; huge centres exposed for a lack of pace; tiny wingers exposed for a lack of height. Two scrumhalves who can' pass. England have neither power nor pace nor guile. Answer? A full time squad a la cricket and rethouhgt selection. Jones into the second row for mobility, Rees into the back row, Richards at scrum half, Noon in at centre,Cohen and Sackey on the wings and Ashton out to pasture.

  • 5.
  • At 08:49 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Simon Webber wrote:

As an England fan,I would like to congratulate Ireland on a highly impressive display. They were simply superior to England all over the pitch today. The Irish public also showed true class and sportsmanship in applauding the England team onto the pitch, and giving the utmost respect to the English national anthem. The hysteria which the media attempted to whip up about the Croke Park issue in the days leading up to the game was shown to be ludicrously mis-judged and totally out of step with the feelings of ordinary people. Well done Ireland!

  • 6.
  • At 08:50 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Matt wrote:

Firstly, well done Ireland. You were the better team and deserved the win. But was there really any doubt? You should try to keep your feet on the ground because, lets face it, England aren't the most formidable set up at the moment. I don't think Ireland will be good enough to win the world cup, they need more games against quality opposition like the ABs and France. Also, a little comment for rogisgod: O'Gara had a good game, but you can no way compare him to Wilko on this match. O'Gara had a huge adavantage in being behind a superior back, and having the best centre partnership outside him. If ROG and Wilko switched sides? ROG would be eaten alive.

  • 7.
  • At 08:50 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Gerard Burns wrote:

Apart from one error,when he was unable to release the ball early enough, his long range passes impressed again,including the one that led to Strettle s try. Give credit where it s due please- Guscott. Rememember,Jeremy,you rarely broke sweat let alone ever got your shirt dirty! Farrell has a better Rugby brain than you will ever possess. Ireland deserved to win due to committed team effort.

  • 8.
  • At 08:50 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • james wrote:

England were well and truely outclassed. Ireland deserved the win.

  • 9.
  • At 08:51 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Kellyizer wrote:

Sorry Ed2003, you simply have just gotten it all wrong.

  • 10.
  • At 08:53 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Kevin wrote:

Agree with many of your ratings, get in Wallace! There's no number beside Corry, though I agree with the description of his game - I'd give him a 6.

Maybe some of the England backs deserved better ratings, but not significantly so - for the little offensive creativity they made of the meagre possession earned by their forwards, they were exposed in too many defensive situations to warrant better ratings, in my opinions - all in all, it wasn't just the Irish dominance in the tight that won the match, it was England's inability to deal with Ireland, player for player, play for play, Ireland had England on their knees for at least 70 minutes of that game.

Excellent summary of Grewcock's performance as well :-D
"score before sin-bin = 9-3.
score on return from sinbin = 23-3" - says it all really!

  • 11.
  • At 08:53 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Denis wrote:

Loved it! What aperformance from Ireland on such a huge stage. O'Connell was immense, also O'Gara and O'Driscoll just has an influence beyond anything he does with ball in hand. It was a great win but we shoudl guard against too much triumphalism. Wilkinson was OK considering he was behid a beaten pack and a scrum half who dodn't quite click today. The pack was hammered - a real cause for concern (if you're English) and the nrewly neacent Worls Cup dreams look very premature. Great nity-gritty performance from Irish back row. Think Farrelll may be a busted flush for England (all that money..) As an Irishman almost proudest of all of the reception for "The Queen" - and then teh stunning rendition of The Soldier's Song. Ireland grows up!!

A great match, a great occasion

  • 12.
  • At 08:53 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Pat wrote:

Wooohooo
Ireland were very good and outclassed England in the Line-out and the breakdown.scrummaging was poor for both sides.
Please can somebody beat France. Cumon england and wales against France.

  • 13.
  • At 08:58 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Paul wrote:

Dont think farrell was that bad, english pack were awfull and never fronted up, changes need to be made, so many needless penalties, julian white stamping and does corry give a penalty a game away for grabbing his opposite number in the lineout!! he's mmeant to be a leader yet has shocking disipline himself!

  • 14.
  • At 09:01 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Andypandy wrote:

England's problem was that their back row was ineffective and Jonny was anonymous - in particular, his direction of the game was poor and his kicking from hand was lacking in ideas.

To give Andy Farrell a worse mark than Jonny is jaundiced - he did nothing wrong apart from giving away one penalty for getting caught in possession. Ireland's famed midfield of Darcy and O'Driscoll were kept out of the game all evening. What has he got to do to get more than 4 out of 10?

  • 15.
  • At 09:04 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Larry wrote:

Unfair on Corry to give him zero!!!
Ireland answered most critics. What style! What composure on a wet day! What unity! What power! What tackling! What passion!What an occasion! What a performance! What a result! What an emotional national anthem and Irelands Call! What respect for the English national anthem!
O'Connell immense! O'Gara class! Horgan soars!
Go Ireland! Bring on the World Cup!

  • 16.
  • At 09:04 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • steve wrote:

Ireland were superb today and all credit to them. I thought the english back three weren't too bad and was especially impressed by tait and hope he gets a run in the centres against France.

Our pack is simply not good enough anymore, it is as simple as that. which of those 8 would get into the side of 2003? only vickory, the rest are just not world class. desperately need richard hill back and maybe give rees a bit of a go. god knows what to do about the second and front rows

  • 17.
  • At 09:07 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • steve wrote:

It's so easy to knock Farrell. He is the one player England have in midfield that fires quick ball out wide.

He is expected to be everything all at once and his team mates must try harder. He is expected to be no.1 defender and attacker.

  • 18.
  • At 09:11 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Nick wrote:

Picking on Farell seems very strange - he passed well, ran straight and had some good tackles - not a great game but similar to the other backs. There seems some resentment among union die hards to seeing a league player come straight into the team, and it is fair to say he is inexperienced, bot not to say that the experiment has failed. Today England were outclassed much more seriously in the forwards, you can't compete if you can't retain your own lineout ball.

  • 19.
  • At 09:13 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Dan wrote:

Agree completely, although mark for wilkinson might be too high, but i think lund/rees makrs should be reversedm frist half i thougth lund played well and was at every breakdown quickly, made about 5 very good tackles, and i thought rees was ineffective and quiet!!!

  • 20.
  • At 09:16 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Millar McDowell wrote:

Well done ireland on a superb win over the "world cup favourites". HA HA. wHAT A JOKE. win 2 matches against a plodding Scotland and played off the park by the much more superior forwards from Italy.

Is this the best england can put out. Bring back andy robinson.

today england were shown the true spirit of a team. not the prima donnas of wilko, farrel,etc. my granny could do more with a rugby ball than corry. and as for the front row- and i thought john hayes was a plodder.

well done ireland. thoroughly deserved

  • 21.
  • At 09:16 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Charlie wrote:

The discussion about Brian Moore masks a deeper seated issue on sport's commentary, and that is that the TV channels recent reliance on ex-players has been in line with the dumbing down on British television in general. If we want to have unbiased, more objective commentary then the TV bosses should bring back the gifted amateur journalist types and leave the has-beens to the after dinner speaking circuit and any blog they wish to create. The brutal truth is that running round a sport's field in the formative adult years of life does not prepare the mind for quick, unbiased analysis. The default, so-to-speak, is to fall back on the changing-room logic which B Moore is now famous for.

  • 22.
  • At 09:18 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Yedbawon wrote:

Farrell was found wanting today but I do not honestly believe anyone else could have played in his palce and salvaged that performance. However the critiscism from the pundits is pure tosh.

All of them however cannot see past the end of their noses to the root of the problem- the pack!

The pack is slow, toothless, unskillful and lacking any mongrel at all. Can any one show me an England forward running with any aggression at the line and making yards? They all trundle forward, fall over or get knocked backwards.

Any rugby team, RL or RU needs a pack to go forward aggressively and dominate the opposition if the team is establish territory and create anything for a backline- Guscott and Moore should teach that on the skills web- site!

The forwards couldn't create anything other than trying to biff and barge their way up field with a maul- which they can be matched with. Ironically the best two or three teams in world rugby at minute have forwards running aggresively off the back of quick rucks RL style!

Me thinks an athletic, aggressive, skilful pack with good passing skills must be picked and stuck with. This lot are past their sell by date.

The character assasination of Faz by the the game's media, pundits and commentators is embarrassing and reminiscent of the kind of garbage written by tabloid journalists trying to oust the latest/ last/ current England soccer team manager.

If they want the best of Farrell, stick him at stand-off. He'll organise, boss the game and he can kick penalities too- which means he can do two more things better than Wilkinson.

  • 23.
  • At 09:20 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Scotty wrote:

A well deserved win by the Irish, in various ways they have been getting better over the last few years and this day they put it all together. It was going to happen some time.

As an Aussie I knew they were on the upsurge when, although they lost to NZ when they played them they did not look out of thier depth (as they had done before).

As for England all this approbrium for Farrell is, as my London freinds would say "bang out of order". Some of the passes he did today were superb, including the one leading to Strettle's try. His defence was OK as well, but lets be honest Tindall/Farrell vs O'Driscoll/Darcy is a mismatch if ever I saw one. Tindall, Strettle, Morgan, Lewsey fought like hell and can be proud of thier effort, if not thier execution. The forwards were found out big time; end of story. It's all very well to say you will "dominate" set pieces with strength, when technique is lacking. O'Connell ruled the lineout -the Irish loosies rules the park.

  • 24.
  • At 09:20 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Tom Henderson wrote:

I'm absolutely shocked nothing has been mentioned with regard to the referee. Ireland deserved their win, but the referee ruined the game. Grewcock gets sin binned for his usual stupidity yet the Irish get away with elbowing Johnny in the head, kneeing him on the floor and Horgan's running forearm into Strettle's face was a sickener. The referee's incompetance was nearly matched by England who seem unable to grasp the rules of the sport. Vickery's persistant causing of the scrum to collapse (which the referee didn't punish) was a prime example. I'm certain it would be difficult to concede more penalties for basic errors if they actually wanted to. The England team is in a shambolic state and there will be no quick fix, things won't improve before the world cup - in 2011!

  • 25.
  • At 09:22 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Ed2003 wrote:

Good call on Richard Hill, Steve.

What a difference in skill and intensity between Back, Dallaglio, Hill and Lund, Corry, Worsley. It's the back row that is costing us quick and tidy ball game after game.

I really don't think that we need to make massive changes to the back line.

  • 26.
  • At 09:23 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Frank wrote:

Ireland were brilliant I think they could win the world cup

  • 27.
  • At 09:25 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Paul wrote:

Well done the Irish rugby supporting public for their magnificent applause as England ran onto the Croker Park pitch and their equally magnificent response to the playing of God Save the Queen - wonderful, and heart warming.

As for the match: I believe England lost through a lack of charismatic on-field leadership, something Ireland had in abundance. Even if they could not have outplayed this brilliant Irish side, leadership may have avoided such a heavy defeat.

  • 28.
  • At 09:28 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Curran wrote:

You need to have a few players in any rugby team who can frighten the other side with their speed, if nothing else it changes the pattern of marking and makes room for other players, that's the way NZ think and that's how the England coaches should be thinking, today England only had Strettle with any sort of a spark. Lewsey isn't quick, deceptive or even hard to put down. Farrell should be shown the door as an expensive mistake, they'll want him back in league, let's face it he's still playing league, that's all there is to his game, he certainly doesn't belong on the same pitch as a centre like O'Driscoll. Tindall doesn't look fit, if he is fit and that's him at his biggest and best he shouldn't be in the squad either.

  • 29.
  • At 09:30 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Happydownunder wrote:

Mesmerising display, did Ireland proud. Sydney morning streets full of happy Irish people wandering around in a daze, if only we could bottle that intensity we could start to believe in world cups, Full credit to EOS, might quieten down a lot of the critics on this site! Great to see the respect from the anthems after all the hype.

  • 30.
  • At 09:32 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Tim Kelly wrote:

I think each of the Irish back row should have gotten 8, they were all immense in defense and attack.

O'Driscoll deserves an 8 as well, as always looked dangerous, but was especially dogged in defence, not giving the English midfield any time or room.

  • 31.
  • At 09:35 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Michael wrote:

Ireland forwards were immense. As I said yesterday, if Ireland's forwards compete then the backs will overrun England. The forwards more than competed, they demolished England's pack.
Where will England go from here? Ashton will probably make a couple of changes to the pack (Freshwater, Grewcock and Corry out).
I'd still like to see Tait in as a centre, Cueto back on the wing now that he's fit and Lewsey or Robinson at full back.

  • 32.
  • At 09:35 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Dannny wrote:

I think saying that farrell played well is wrong, he made poor decision after poor decision and wasn't incisvie with his running, didn't make any notable breaks!! As wilko played fairly poorly, again doesn;t look like he is gonna det the world alight again, i think england's best option for the world cup is pray hodgson is fit, hodgson 10, wilko 12, and also I think cueto should be brought back into the team sharpish, his scoring record is sensational and move lewsey to full back cos he isnt getting in the games on the wing!!!

  • 33.
  • At 09:36 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • carter wrote:

when we won the world cup worsley, grewcock, corry and freshwater were all nearer their peak than they are now. that shows how we haven't replaced the likes of johnno, hill, back, big lol etc. we haven't moved on. we were completely outplayed upfront. they murdered us at the line out and forced us into how many errors?? blaming farrell is hilarious. how many line breaks did his opposite man (the much hyped darcy) make? faz has a great rugby brain and fast hands. perfect for any good o-centre to play off. writing wilko is hilarious too. if he'd been the Irish 10, behind that pack display, he'd have been untouchable.

  • 34.
  • At 09:40 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Keo in Melbourne wrote:

If wilko switched with ROG he would have been eaten alive? another hypothetical situation. What a load of complete clap-trap, and to be expected. Hardly worth commenting on, but I couldn't help myself. ROG has been playing brilliant rugby for the last 3 years while wilko has been nursing endless injuries, really good rugby players dont get injured as much as he does, Wilko is foolish to think that he can tackle bigger men, thats why he keeps getting smashed up. ROG was unsurpassed today, and played a better all-round game than wilko has ever played. simple as that. Kicked everything to perfection, controlled the match, and created an amazing try. What has wilkinson done in the six nations this year? even the try he scored wasn't a try. He was exposed as a one dimensional player that has been overhyped, sounds like the english premiership (he is the Rugby equivalent to Beckham). Great win for Ireland, and bring on the world cup. B

  • 35.
  • At 09:41 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Andy Tee wrote:

Art - who's using the family brain cell this weekend?

  • 36.
  • At 09:47 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Defoe8 wrote:

Today proved that England are a 1 man team, you keep JW quiet and you'll easily beat England.

It was obv that JW had not recovered from his hamstring injury and was thus useless today. Even when he was fit, he has lost the pace, skill and ability to skin players that made him one of the best fly halfs in rugby.

The English rugby team and English football team have one thing in common - they're both useless!!

  • 37.
  • At 09:51 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • simon wrote:

Art u r an idiot, he has had far more than 1 good game, he did smash the hell out of you in 2003 so dont be stupid now. But well played Ireland, far better team on the day..however you wont get near the world cup I'm afraid. France, NZ and South Africa will murder you.

I happened to be next to one very one eyed Scot during the match who told me he didnt care about Scotlands result as long as Ireland won even though we beat Scotland as well. Tell me...is this a general Scottish mentality or just a eye eyed idiot!

  • 38.
  • At 09:55 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • adam o connor wrote:

wheeerrrrrrrrrrrrs jonny?

  • 39.
  • At 09:55 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • tony wrote:

As an English fan I would like to congratulate the Irish team on a convincing win. It now looks almost certain that they will pick up another triple crown which will I suppose be fair. I think the French are in a different league to the home nations and I fear for the thrashing they will give England if we are as poor in Paris.

However, any hopes I had of an England win were destroyed when I saw the England team selection - Ireland fully exposed the shortcomings in the England selection and for this they must take the credit for doing the homework on their opposition but I feel the result was flattering to Ireland because Ashton chose a team that was not up to the job.

As for England where do they go now? Unfortunately time has run out on us to get together a team capable of even mounting a half decent defence of the WC in France and that is a tragedy.

Farrell was exposed today but I still think it was right to play him. He needs experience and there is only one way to get that. Grewcock - please give him a brain transplant someone. Time and time again his indiscipline lets down hit country. Ellis - I can think of only 1 game where he has played well.

Not much wrong with your player ratings but I think rating 9 for O Gara and 5 for Wilkinson is a bit excessive. Wilko was limited today because he was playing behind a creaking pack and the reverse is true for ROG. Switch the players around and the result wouldn't have changed a tiny bit.

The only negative point to me today was Keith Wood. The man annoys me every time he opens his mouth and is so one eyed it is unbelievable. Any Irish who complain about Brian Moore should take a look at Wood with his at times almost hilarious lack of objection. As a player he was top class but as a pundit he is bottom of the pile.

  • 40.
  • At 09:55 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • mcd wrote:

I have to say - as an England fan i am honoured to have seen the way Ireland handled the game today. The Irish fans were amazing and gave the utmost respect to the visiting players. The run out onto the pitch and anthems were fantastic. Ireland for the RWC 2007. I will be behind them 100%.

As disappointed as i am - an awesome display.

  • 41.
  • At 09:58 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • willy wrote:

a great day for the "entire ireland" truly historic on and off the pitch

  • 42.
  • At 10:00 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Denis wrote:

Comments for 27. Largely I agree - the ref was useless. missed endless Vickey binding probs, pulling down. Right about Horgan's elbow, not so sure about the knee on Wilikinson being deliberate, but, for God's sake, what about Lund's shocking hit on an airborne Dempsey. One of the biggets threats/risks to the wonderful game of RU is inconsistent, sometimes stupid/blind refereeing. Get the principles right: straight put-in, watch for tightheads driving in / binding, defenders pulling in attackers in loose play...

  • 43.
  • At 10:00 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • maxime wrote:

just stop looking in the past and talking about Wilko !!
He is NOT the future of the english team, just a good foot player.
He made today many individual mistakes.
Why can't english fans admit they have to build a new team ? I just can't understand that. 2003 is over, wake up!
A french supporter.

  • 44.
  • At 10:05 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Callum wrote:

At the end of the day, England simply aren't good enough. Time and time again they get built up as being potential this and potential that, but when push comes to shove they can't hack it against a better, hungrier opposition. The forwards are a joke considering how many good forwards haven't been selected. Why is simon shaw not in the team? The backs have no flair and guile. Its just embarrassing now.

  • 45.
  • At 10:05 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • PatC wrote:

nah - Corry deserves a 0 - not least for the 'opinion' he delivers in the Grauniad. England outclassed - again. How many times has 4 in a row been mentioned, cos I am too drunck to read the posts?

  • 46.
  • At 10:06 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • AlexT wrote:

Not sure what's gone wrong with England. A year and half ago, they had a pack which got the better of New Zealand, with no sparkle and creativity in the backs.

Today the backs played OK - not great, but the pack was bullied and out muscled. The front five were especially poor - when can we have Stevens back?

I thought Strettle played very well for a debut. Farrell was again, OK but nothing more. I think Antony Allen is more of an attacking threat.

  • 47.
  • At 10:08 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Breda Bower wrote:

I lived in Dublin in the 60s Croake Park was where we went every Sunday. Before the Stands were Built we met on 'hill 16' with our packed lunch and watched the match.
I cried tonight when I saw the England and the Irish teams come through the tunnell. I was so proud that the spectators were so respectful when the teams entered and the national anthems were played. I am Irish but have lived in England for over 40 years, but tonight is so great for me.

  • 48.
  • At 10:12 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • old hoss wrote:

so in the space of one game is jw crap.Art get get alife . if you've ever played behind a pack thats not worth its weight in dog bisquits and living on scraps then controle is virtually impossible.
world cup winners ireland,doubtfull.england no chance
france maybe.nz deffo if they dont choke.

  • 49.
  • At 10:15 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • ta2625 wrote:

Every comment I hear about Jonny Wilkinson being crap annoys me - it shows a distinct lack of understanding of rugby. Any fly half in English rugby would have had a hard time out there with the quality and amount of ball presented to him.

I'm not saying he had the best game - he didn't - some poor decision making cost us but this is purely indicative of lack of match practice not the players quality. Maybe now the six nations is lost Flood should be given a chance but Wilkinson is an asset and shouldn't be written off

Also the centre debate - We haven't seen enough of Farrel to really make a judgement - rugby is such a team game that the performance of every player affects the other - if England's forwards start firing and the backs start moving forward and he still looks out of place then yes drop him, but until then he needs a chance.

Just look at the french side, their centres are much the same mould as Farrel and Tindall yet their back three hits the line with such pace and they bring their flankers into the line so hard that they create oppourtunities everywhere.

Fair play to Ireland they played really well and showed their true potential. I'd love to see an Ireland New Zealand world cup final.

  • 50.
  • At 10:17 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Stephen wrote:

Yeah .... bring on the world cup ireland. Just like this year's Grand Slam.

  • 51.
  • At 10:18 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Nick wrote:

In response to a number of post. England selection is as good as it is going to get. Lets face it the players just aren't in England even at club level these days.
As for somebody here trying to say that Wilko is miles ahead of ROG. You have got to be kidding. ROG may not be as good a place kicker as W but he definitely is a more complete player than Wilko is or has been in the past.
I think this display has highlighted a number of things. That Englands displays in the past couple of games were nothing to get carried away with. This England side is still a very bad side. Italy and Scotland always have the potential to make a day hard for the others but only if they play at their best and the opposition play at their worst. Another thing this result proved and the result of Italy and Scotland has proved too how bad the current Australian side is. Their only good result against Scotland has been shown up for what it was. Nothing. On current form I believe that a full strenght Ireland are the only team in the world who could be competitive with the All Blacks, of course that's at full strenght.

  • 52.
  • At 10:19 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Paul Nickels wrote:

Ireland deserved to win they played with real fire.But please can we be spared the awful commentary from Eddie Butler! His irritaing asides and dislike of Brian Moore spoiled an exhilarating match.

  • 53.
  • At 10:19 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • leo wrote:

I think that ireland played brilliantly and o'connel in particular had a great game. I agree with most of the ratings but i think most people are being too harsh on jonny wilkinson. Ellis didn't have a good game today so 'wilko' had nothing to work with and the england forwards were pretty terrible. Ireland would have beaten france had o driscoll and stringer had been playing and the captain really showed that on the pitch. 100% effort all the way and ireland can win the world cup!

  • 54.
  • At 10:20 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Mark wrote:

Hi guys in the north

have just watched a tremendous Ireland performance Im a kiwi and from my perspective I think Ireland
will be a worry to Henry and our boys more than France.
As for England well wot can I say ARGHHHHHHH!!!!!!there were only 2 players that were worth anything on the day Young David Strettle played his heart out and Andy farrell u guys pot him but the score would have been higher had he not put the brakes on the famed Irish pair.Sure his decisions were sometimes alien but give him a break hes just joined
the squad .As for the England coach
BAD BAD BAD decision should have expanded the idea of an International coach NEW fresh approach New ideas New way forward
England have got All the talent they need but are still stuck in the VICTORIAN days.Cmon England we want u all to be competative down here not just a few of u.

  • 55.
  • At 10:21 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • EMBL wrote:

Re post 8

Wilkinson's kicking from hand and ball is generally excellent. His defensive play is also excellent. However ROG's kicking (from hand and ball) on current form is at least as good. What sets ROG apart from Wilkinson is his playmaking. Wilkinson does not have the running game that O'Gara has and I am not confident he ever will.

O'Gara and Carter are the two form fly-halfs in the world.

I never felt England were in the game today - and after the Italy game I didnt expect much of them. As an Irishman, I spent most of the second half thinking of that last minute against France - ARGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

  • 56.
  • At 10:24 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • bluey wrote:

Felt a bit sorry for England in the end. They're really letting themselves down by not sorting out this club vs. country row, and I thought the occasion merited a better English side than the one we saw. If England could at least sort out their pack that'd be a start.

As regards the hoopla surrounding the national anthems, it was all a load of nonsense stirred up by the Irish media. I'm Irish and, although I now live in England, it was pretty obvious that the anthems and the teams would be well respected.

And by the way, let's not get carried away too much by the result. It was a surprisingly poor English side and there's no evidence yet that Ireland are good enough to win a world cup, especially with New Zealand in the form they're in.

  • 57.
  • At 10:25 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • andrew hannah wrote:

Right. ireland totally outclassed us but. True the back row was poor the england of old won games due to speed at the breakdowns, players were being isolated due to the forwards not being fast enough. Would be good when moody is bak. yeah farrell wasnt amazing but y is everyone expecting him to do wonders in his 3rd game to be honest he was the most solid of the backs today,, he hasnt shone yet.. but he hasnt really done anything wrong?! agree.

Julian white needs to start he is an imense scrummager. so heres my starting line up if all were fit what u think??

1 Julian white
2 George Chuter (thompson serious injury)
3 Phil vickery
4 Lewis decon
5 Ben kay
6 joe worsley
7 lewis moody
8 martin corry

9 harry ellis
10 jonny
11 robinson
12 farrell
13 tait (we need some pace farrell is the strong head tait the pace)
14 cueto
15 lewsey

  • 58.
  • At 10:27 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • ORP wrote:

What a brilliant occasion - Croke Park is awesome!!!
Great to see the Ulstermen on at the end - but not before time!!!
BBC website commentary attributed the conversion to Boss' try to ROG - when it was actually Paddy Wallace who scored the final three points.
Well done to all.

  • 59.
  • At 10:27 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • NP wrote:

Ireland are a seriously good team at the moment, and everything came right today. World cup though? - dream on. The first twenty and last five minutes against France are what happen when they take their eye off the ball. France are the only team that I can see even remotely challenging the ABs.
I agree about the England recylced has-beens. Its a sorry state of affairs when Worsely looks good in comparison to the rest. However, teams around the world would be delighted if we wrote JW off. Yes he is overhyped, yes he's been rushed back too soon, yes he may never be quite the same again, but if he can now stay fit he's is light years ahead of Hodgson or anyone else seen in a England number 10 shirt.

  • 60.
  • At 10:29 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Sarah wrote:

To TOM HENDERSON

'Horgan's running forearm into Strettle's face was a sickener''


To be fair, you must remember that it was evident from that incident that Strettle was a newcomer. Horgan may have been wrong to elbow him in the face but Strettle was in his way as ROG kicked the ball ahead.

Horgan had every right to push Strettle aside as he was just standing there rather dozily.


To England, fair play for a good match and an unfortunte loss. I think the team is in a bit of a pickle but Jonny Wilkinson could have done so much more with a stronger and more together team behind him - He is still a world-class kicker although Ronan O'Gara did outshine him today

To Ireland, I am just so proud. Fair play after the frustrating and loose game against Wales and an unfortunate game against France

  • 61.
  • At 10:29 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Adam wrote:

England were utterly shambolic, most of those England players did a half-arse job, full credit to the Irish for staying silent during the English anthem.

  • 62.
  • At 10:29 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • joe wrote:

Well Ireland dismantled us i just find it ironic hoe this time 3 year ago we dismantled Ireland by pretty much score. Aslo Ashton saying tht all the players played badly makes achange from Robinson excues of the matches last year when we played badly. I aslo found it amsuing how sum people were trying 2 compare Farrell to Greenwood , greenwood had pace farrel does not. Lets now blood the young lads like Allen , Tait and Cipriani

  • 63.
  • At 10:31 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Andy F wrote:

Do you not think that the scoreline was a bit flattering? A bit of slight of hand from Stringer resulted in Grewcock getting sent off, leading to the 2 tries which sealed the game. As for "completely outshone" he kicked into touch. That's it. A good performance, but O'Gara was definately not spectacular.

  • 64.
  • At 10:31 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • disgruntled Cornishman wrote:

Who writes these pathetic reviews - have they ever played the game?

It is pointless even reviewing the performances of the backs (other than defensive performances) when the forwards have caved in and capitulated as completely as England's did today.

England's front row is a problem, Vickery does not scrummage well - he works hard around the field, but that is a 'secondary' duty.

England's back row is very pedestrian and provides very little 'go forward ball'but it's very hard to do that if you're having to stay bound in to the scrum to stop it rolling backward because of the front row's inadequacy.

England's line out has a very vulnerable look to it too, and as for Grewcock - how much sin bin and sent off time has he spent in his long international career. Is he unsackable? I'm a Bath member but he is a nightmare.

Sort the pack out, they were also turned inside out by Italy, and when we've done that perhaps we can get a balanced view on how good (or not) England's backs are.

  • 65.
  • At 10:32 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Will wrote:

Ireland were very very good today, ROG included, but I think the comparisons with, and criticism of Wilko are unfair. He did not have a great game by his standard, but he is still the only other fly half in the world fit to lace Carter's boots. Hook is potentially there too, but ROG is not. His game is hugely reliant on kicking which was perfect tonight for two reasons. First the conditions required it, second his pack had England's on a plate.
Farrel was poor, I thought he would step up tonight but he looks dreadfully slow off the mark, his passing and kicking skills are very good, but I dont think he can make up for his lack of pace.
Strettle was a psoitive tonight, looks to be a good find.
In the pack I think Rees should take Lund's shirt, hes more dynamic.
And please can we replace slow-motion Corry, he doesnt put work in at breakdowns and is so slow on the ball. Lineout work was gd before tonight, but we must have a more threatening ball carrier at 8, Easter? Lol?

  • 66.
  • At 10:33 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • mark b wrote:

Couldn't agree more with old hoss! There is no shortage of talent or skill in the English side but I'm dismayed with the lack of passion that the English team have compared to the Italians and the Irish. If only Wales could've beaten France!

  • 67.
  • At 10:35 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • huge wrote:

As an Ireland fan living and working in England I was 10 feet tall for the last 73 minutes of that match.
Immense double tackles, supreme line-out and a marauding back row supported by ball playing brutes in the tight five.
The omission of Robinson wasn't a factor - kicks found touch (unlike the France game) backs had go forward ball and Easterby, Wallace and Leamy made the english back row look subetteo versions of themselves. No blame on Wilko or Farrel - you can be as talented as you like without ball or space.
How many contact situations did Ireland rule? Tight and loose!

I know a pinch of salt required in terms of Irish world cup terms but when did they last beat England 4 times on the bounce?!
Echo previous comments about the respect shown to Enlgand - marked contrast to booing kicks at Murrayfield.
Murphy vs Dempesy debate is now settled for me too.. Stringer one remains wide open!

  • 68.
  • At 10:36 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • pete wrote:

farrell was ok again, wilkinson was mmmm, strettle was the only player in the england side who even knew where the line was, what is corry,chuter,vickery and white doing in the squad?. the back line to me looks fine its the forwards that need sorting out. strettle need to play in the next match too, he`s the only one that even looked like scoring

  • 69.
  • At 10:37 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Angela Wixted wrote:

Ireland wanted this one. They played with passion and focus. Ireland had a problem with the ref against the French. These things happen. To quote all the Lads in Califorina it was a great day.

Congratulations Ireland.

  • 70.
  • At 10:38 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Blind Bob wrote:

Wales to win WC

  • 71.
  • At 10:40 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Blind Bob wrote:

Wales to win WC

  • 72.
  • At 10:42 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Troff wrote:

Very well played Ireland. You were magnificent and your challenge now is to play to that intensity in every game leading up to the world cup. If you play like that on a regular basis, you will blow away every northern hemisphere team and have a WC final with the AB's. I really didn't think the front row was up to international standard but I've been proven wrong today and its the English pack that needs major surgery.

From an English point of view, today was a major reality check and while we're not as bad as in the Autumn, we're not in the same league as the best teams. However, the World Cup draw has been very favourable (we can't meet NZ, France, Ireland or Argentina until the SF), so if the pack can be sorted out, we still have a chance of a respectable defence (although progression beyond the SF is out of the question). Strettle showed some promise and Tate must be given a go in the centre. We need another '8' until Ward-Smith is fit but I can't think of a likely candidate.

  • 73.
  • At 10:42 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • biscuit wrote:

well done the Irish; tons of respect for the whole day, anthems etc. You deserved to win but why do we english seem so unable to raise our game above talking and endless newpaper interviews ? Time for young bloods, do away with the old guard. What did JW achieve today ? thought he was uninspired, good in parts. Freshwater, Vickery Deacon & Lund not to mention Corry need a dose of reality and to be dropped; Grewcock tho' much maligned and a bit of a liability is one of our better forwards and should be kept. Is this the same Ellis who played against Scotland ?

  • 74.
  • At 10:46 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Irishman in England wrote:

In reply to 27 Tom Henderson...

Lets not be daft and start talking about the referee here and your comment about horgan's 'running forearm into strettle's face' is outrageous! strettle was taught a lesson, if you deliberately get in the way of a train at full speed its gonna hurt and you deserve it! thought the referee was ok, not great, but didn't make that many terrible decisions (other than lund's horrific challenge on dempsey in the air and was it chuter's nasty stamp which you conveniently forgot to mention! but there will always be some mistakes in a game)

also as far as one or two people on here go who were saying ireland were no good and particularly that they were overhyped, i suggest you go downstairs find your hat and eat it! i agree that wilko was given no chance to perform today as he got little ball outside his 22 and when he did was constantly rushed but he is still a class act and a FAR better player than hodgson will ever be...also farrell is a good rugby player and doesn't deserve the stick he's got after performing respectably against a formidable midfield pairing

hopefully those who doubt O'Gara's ability will now have finally seen him play and keep their mouth shut as he is pure class.

still the vast majority of both english and irish fans have taken this game in good spirit and accepted it for what it was which is very refreshing to see so cheers and good luck to england against france!

  • 75.
  • At 10:46 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • NP wrote:

P.S ... seen in an England number 10 shirt, RECENTLY.

  • 76.
  • At 10:49 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Zack wrote:

honestly, i felt that Strettle was impressive.

  • 77.
  • At 10:50 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Chris wrote:

when will ashton grow up and drop Corry. He has been less than anonymous in the last few games and is almost working against the development of english rugby. If Ashton is determined to pick the old guard then at least pick someone decent.

  • 78.
  • At 10:52 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Les Fisher wrote:

England were totally outclassed by a much superior pack. The England forwards should take most of the blame. Backs cannot operate without good ball and today they always seemed to be receiving under pressure or not at all.
The vitriol and remarks about Andy Farrell are ridiculous - he seemed one of the few English players trying to get things going. He cannot help it if he was surrounded by some donkeys and butterfingers. Some commentators, especially Guscott, seem to have been biding their time and barely keeping their anti-league prejudices under control. Guscott, himself, must be one of the most overated centres England have had, who had a few spectacular and lucky moments, but most of the time could always be relied upon not to pass if individual glory was a possiblity. No, today England were failed by their forwards and that is what needs urgent attention. Well done Ireland.

  • 79.
  • At 10:54 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Les Fisher wrote:

England were totally outclassed by a much superior pack. The England forwards should take most of the blame. Backs cannot operate without good ball and today they always seemed to be receiving under pressure or not at all.
The vitriol and remarks about Andy Farrell are ridiculous - he seemed one of the few English players trying to get things going. He cannot help it if he was surrounded by some donkeys and butterfingers. Some commentators, especially Guscott, seem to have been biding their time and barely keeping their anti-league prejudices under control. Guscott, himself, must be one of the most overated centres England have had, who had a few spectacular and lucky moments, but most of the time could always be relied upon not to pass if individual glory was a possiblity. No, today England were failed by their forwards and that is what needs urgent attention. Well done Ireland.

  • 80.
  • At 10:54 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Barry In Greece wrote:

I think all the pundits got it wrong today it wasn't BOD and Darcy running rings round Farrell. It was the Irish Pack who were supurb. Nobody would have guessed that England would be outscrummaged and beaten and out muscled. The Irish pack were immense. Freshwater and Vickery are poor scrummagers. Bring on Sheridan and Stevens. Yes drop the captain he is not good enough. Better 2nd row and back row combinations are required. Stick with Tait, Strettle Wikinson and Farrell. Lewsey at Fullback.

The English back line did ok with the amount of possesion they had.

  • 81.
  • At 10:54 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • andy wrote:

i think the english are been overly critical on there team and i think its being very disrespectful to ireland. 3 weeks ago after beating scotland there was talk of retaining the world cup. this has been a wake up call for them. i dont believe that ashton has his selection right yet but they are getting there. fact of the matter is they got beaten by one of the best teams in the world!

  • 82.
  • At 10:56 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Nick wrote:

God we're getting like football, slamming all our players!

First of all we lost to a good, organised side. Full credit to Ireland.

Leave off Farrell. Holding on - why were we running out of our 22 and where was the support?

In my opinion we can't criticise the backs if they hardly get any decent ball. They got one decent bit of ball all night after decent go forward from our forwards (comprehensively outplayed - again) and we scored a good try. Enough said.

At the end of the day chaps who on earth can we bring in? I'd swap Rees for Lund and bring in Palmer for one of the second rows. Hopefully Stevens can come back in at prop soon. Other than that I think we've got the right set of players - I think we've got to accept, esp in the forwards, we're not very good at the mo, although the forwards do need a fire being lit under them.

  • 83.
  • At 10:58 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Bruce - Queensland Aussie wrote:

Great win again over the proms again Ireland, you guys are entering a new era in International Rugby and every success to you.
Having beat the Australians and South Africans, also not looking anyway out of depth against the All-Blacks the writting was On The Wall for England. I don't think English forward could have done anything on the day even if they had trained with the Irish pack and coaches for the week!!! England was just not up to it, extreme sad to see such a rapid decline in the English standard of play.

Croke Park looks like the Best Ground in that part of the world

  • 84.
  • At 11:00 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • nicholas wrote:

There's no doubt that England's performance was disappointing. Most of the players had an average game, and some had a poor game. There was no player who rose to the occasion. As we saw against Italy England can't always rely on Jonny to play as amazing as we know he can. Again today he wasn't at his best and as we saw in the second half against Italy the England team was torn. It is unbalanced and changes need to be made. The team also has to put this defeat behind them and keep confidence otherwise England will finish as badly as they did last year. I for one don't wish to see the English team get torn apart by France again.

  • 85.
  • At 11:01 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • imrama wrote:

* At 10:17 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
* Stephen wrote:

Yeah .... bring on the world cup ireland. Just like this year's Grand Slam.


nobody likes a sore loser:)

Wilkinson is only as good as the forwards in front of him. He is a brilliant place kicker but without the likes of Johnson, Dallaglio, Hill and back in front of him, we saw today he is an average player in open play.

  • 86.
  • At 11:02 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • adrian wrote:

as an englishman, i congratulate ireland on their magnificent display and on that form even nz would find it difficult against them. i would personally like to compliment the irish fans for their reception and respect shown to our boys during the national anthem. i will be supporting ye during the world cup. well done ireland!

  • 87.
  • At 11:04 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Bruce - Queensland Aussie wrote:

Great win again over the proms Ireland, you guys are entering a new era in International Rugby and every success to you.
Having beat the Australians and South Africans, also not looking anyway out of depth against the All-Blacks the writting was On The Wall for England. I don't think the English forwards could have done anything on the day even if they had trained with the Irish pack and coaches for the week!!! England was just not up to it, extreme sad to see such a rapid decline in the English standard of play.

Croke Park looks like the Best Ground in that part of the world

  • 88.
  • At 11:13 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • john Palmer wrote:

What's happened Honest Tim? You were going to win?

  • 89.
  • At 11:15 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • john Palmer wrote:

What's happened Honest Tim? You were going to win?

  • 90.
  • At 11:22 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • brian wrote:

Massive congratulations to ireland.
It is difficult to imagine the pressure that the Irish team were under today. To display such determination on such a (world) stage is a remarkable advert for the game.
I also have to congratulate the entire match crowd, the restraint and support that they displayed was amazzing.

  • 91.
  • At 11:34 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • GirveTheSwerve wrote:

Agree with most of those ratings, but I do believe that Girven Dempsey produced a particularly excellent fullback display, thoroughly making a fool of me as I had been wearing my throat dry telling mates that it should have been Geordan Murphy in there today.

As an aside, although I am thoroughly proud of what was a thunderous Irish performance, it still worries me that we have failed to beat Les Bleus in 5 matches now. The WC final might just be a step too far.

Let's hope not.

  • 92.
  • At 11:35 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • nearo wrote:

Just a note note to the BBC; The coverage of both games at Croke
Park has been amazing. I have watched many a gaelic game with RTE over the years. But it has taken the BBC to show it off in its full beauty. Well done
A great day for both nations

  • 93.
  • At 11:37 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Leo wrote:

I feel so proud to be an irishman today. There was no trouble and what a match! Ireland even dominated in the scrums (our achilles's heel). I think if we play like this we can give any team a good game and have the potential to win the world cup.

Before this match i thought O'Gara was an average out half but after seeing his maestro performance i would say he is definetely the second best, if not the best( Carter has never really had to play on the backfoot cause of the team around him) out-half in world rugby. Wilkinson i thought had a good game though he just lacked a bit of creativity and control in attack.

As for Farrell he is a solid player and smart no doubt but at Test level you need to be able to make breaks which he can't. I think England should consider Ollie Smith at 13 because a couple of years ago he outplayed O'Drisscoll against Leinster and is a genuine threat with pace.

I think Horgan and Leamy did not deserve their low marks they were both contenders for man of the match in my opinion particularly Leamy. I thought the new guys Morgan and Strettle did very well considering the pressure they had to deal with.

  • 94.
  • At 11:37 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Kate wrote:

Can i just say the ref was a total waste of time today, harsh on both teams and then ridiculously not noticing things again on both sides, i mean binding on the arm in the scrum, how can you not see that if your standing in front of them and watching out for it?????specsavers anyone?.
However that is no excuse and I think Englands whole way of thinking is still at that world cup in 2003.
We need to update the side and bring our attitudes up to the modern day. Most other teams have got over 2003, and have modernised. As much as ill always support England, changes seriously need to be made. It was bad luck that our first 2 6nations matches were against, lets say less competitive sides( at the time, I thought Italy were better today, not kicking the damn ball every 3 seconds), if we'd started against France or Ireland we would of had our heads in the game and might of pulled something out of the bag, instead of struggling.
All credit to Ireland though, they were most definately the better team, and deserved their win.
Also Brian Moore is not half as bad as Keith Wood, god i wish we could just watcha game of rugby without silly comments.


My advice is change the total front row, bring back Matt Stevens when hes fit, we need better, fresher players.

  • 95.
  • At 11:44 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • sam wrote:

i rekon poeople are waking up to how bad a player grewcock is. fine he might be able to do a second rows job but he is a nut case and shudnt be anywer near a national team. he is seen as an inforcer but any good enforcer dusnt get caught. dunno wot deacon does, farrel is a big lad....

  • 96.
  • At 11:46 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Jeremy Wilson wrote:

Although Farrell didn't have a particualrly good game he was far from being the worst England player. He seems to be being picked on as an easy target by some ignorant commentators. The forwards as a whole were poor, England's kicking was dreadful and Tindall continues to be a waste of space.

  • 97.
  • At 11:47 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • collie21 wrote:

You know what? I had friends text me from home saying the margin wasn't big enough. Their comments had nout to do with Rugby but plenty to do with the crap that came from people saying the Irish had choked, or were crap or whatever. I don't think we will win the WC but I know the meaning of choke. It is not what happened against the French, it's what happened in the English game against the Irish. They were awful. The English got punished by an overated Irish side because the English played terribly. The Irish played well. World Champions my arse. We beat you straight after, we beat you today and we will beat you again in the WC. Does it stick in your throat? Choke park for ever.

  • 98.
  • At 11:49 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • whambamtha... wrote:


anyone heard from honest tim?

come on ireland!!!!!!well done,well deserved result!!!for the recent messages about englands performance you shouldnt be so hard on england,they have just come out of the worst proformances ever recorded in the nation,they are still yet to learn the ways of modern international rugby but with ashton it will be a faster proccess.i beleive the problem with their recent games is that they will just give a young player 1 cap and put them under tremendious amount of pressure to proform.what i beleive they should do is to stick with strettle and morgan for their starting line up and to develope them so they can go onto be world class player because they have it in them but just a lack of experience.also dont depend on the players to proform,depend on the team.
i am an irish fan and i would just like to say that both english and irish fans and players today showed great sportsman ship and i will hope to see a greater relationship come between ireland and england after todays game.
lorcan

  • 100.
  • At 11:53 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • sam wrote:

i rekon poeople are waking up to how bad a player grewcock is. fine he might be able to do a second rows job but he is a nut case and shudnt be anywer near a national team. he is seen as an inforcer but any good enforcer dusnt get caught. dunno wot deacon does, farrel is a big lad....

  • 101.
  • At 11:58 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • ross wrote:

i think we've just seen how behind england are!!!

while i think (maybe hope) they can still have a successfull world cup they need to sort many things out.

the forwards, who are we kidding yes many play well in the premiership but since austraila in the AI's wat 2 year ago when have they lived up 2 there bill, i think many are there on reputation. vickery esp looked off the pace

  • 102.
  • At 12:02 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • eoin wrote:

Contrary to what kate has said I think the ref was very fair throughout. It must be that age old case of blaming the referee for your own inadequacies. Some English bitterness perhaps.

  • 103.
  • At 12:04 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • joe wrote:

Don't be harsh on the English. They ran into a far superior side. When Wales lose to the All Blacks, everyone "expects" it. When Argentina loses to the Wallabies, everyone "expects" it. Every team in both the nothern and southern hemispheres should start "expecting" to lose to this Irish side. That's the reality. I said this before. The All Blacks are the measure of rugby superiority. Right now, which team would they least like to face on a French pitch?

This Irish side is special. Like it or not.

  • 104.
  • At 12:08 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Andrew K wrote:

Irishman agreeing that Keith Wood a dull commenter. Philip Matthews infinitely more interesting.

  • 105.
  • At 12:09 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Duella Pause wrote:

What a great tribute to Ireland that the crowd was its usual self, passion and dignity overiding any nonsense the press had hyped all week.
Wonderful for them that their team played England off the park. England wont want to go back to the Croke for one historical reason 43-13. I wish the front 5 hadn't bothered to go there today, they damaged the grass! As for the next 3 only Worsley looked like a rugby player until Rees came on.
To make a comment on the attacking skills of the girls in the backs would be wasteful, they just didnt get ball of quality and if they did any back row support arrived a long after Wallace Easterby and co. From a defensive perspective they were in all kinds of trouble and thats worrying. Because they will be doing a lot more of it. England can foret victory against France but Wales will be a stern test, they have shown enough to say that they have a game in their somewhere and thats probably enough to beat England on this showing.
Ireland should go on to do well in the World Cup and with France they pose the best the world has to offer against the All Blacks

  • 106.
  • At 12:10 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Enda wrote:

I would thank the English team for a sporting game, hard but fair im sure you'd agree, their fans were exemplorary also.

Makes the game against France even more painful, England were domiated physically today more than anything else.

I was wrong on most of my earlier comments about this Irish team(C'mon hands up!, im not the only doubter) we have a good team, although we are not World Cup contenders by any crazy stretch of the imagination.

  • 107.
  • At 12:11 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Kia Rose wrote:

Well I enjoyed the match - especially as I am Irish.

Have come away from all three 6N matches saying how good John Hayes was. This is not family bias (he comes from Bruff which is v. close to my dad's home town). But before this season I really didn't rate him.

Always knew the back row were real terriers - of the pit bull variety! But before the tournament started EVERYONE said Ireland would be v. good shame they had no decent front row. Well that not very decent front row looks pretty damn good compared to a lot of what else is on show.

ROG - do you remember when he missed that last minute penalty in the HC Final a few years ago. He bottled that. He also grew up that day. He has become a very good sound reliable o-h since. His place kicking is great, his touch kicking is better than most and he has learnt how to boss a game. That was probably the most valuable penalty kick ever missed.

Stringer v Boss - it's a difficult one to call, but in WC year, every team needs plenty of cover and this is a level of cover many coaches would be happy with.

Dempsey - much safer than Murphy, but I was disappointed Murphy was not in the squad for today, great impact player, GM, but England were so poor he wasn't needed.

Sorry England, it really is back to the drawing board. Should have been done three and a half years ago. Now is too late for this year. But it beggars belief that with the number of registered players in the country that after a drubbing like today the coach says that none of the fifteen played up to international standard.

The WC will be very difficult for Ireland - look at the draw, in the same group as France and Argentina, second place to play prob NZ, therefore MUST win group.

On the other hand, first half against Aus. in the autumn was awesome. And the displays they put together against NZ in the summer were very impressive, enough I should think to make NZ take them seriously in a competition where NZ have not performed to potential.

Watched France against Wales - v dull second half, yawn. But what has Laporte done to Gallic flair? He has coached it out of them imo. Real shame for neutrals watching France. Also really dangerous, so much easier to play against the plan than the flair.

Well done Italy - so pleased for you all. Wales propping up the table! Who would have thought it a few weeks ago?

Three w/es gone and the best matches have involved Ireland. Says something.

Website said 81,600 in Croker today. Where were the other 700? Reliably informed tickets going for 1500euro each today. But today was a good day for Ireland, not just the win or the manner in which it was done, but for the behaviour of the crowd during GSTQ. All we need now is to get a Thomond style silence for the place kicks - too much noise during those.

  • 108.
  • At 12:19 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Dave wrote:

i think people are missing the point on Moore, isn't he at least supposed to be impartial as the co-commentator?

Keith Wood is in the studio with Guscot giving the English point of view and is there to be asked for the Irish opinion. Moore is totally biased in every single game I have ever seen. Usually he calls everything for england and when he is wrong says 'oh, it's a mans game' or something similar, it's a farce having him on the team for the BBC.

He is completely unable to be anything but a fan with a mike and not even a decent fan like a lot of the people posting above.

  • 109.
  • At 12:23 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • colin wrote:

Well done ireland, makes last weeks performance all the more fustrating though! England were very poor today but it was a game ireland were always going to win. some of the comments about rog and jw are been made with the heart rather than the head i feel. the two no. tens are completely different in their styles of rugby, but both outstanding in their own right. the biggest difference is jw poses more of a treat taking on defenders and tackles miles better than rog. but rog is a much better play maker simple as that. wouldnt tade him for any one(well ok cater). houdini at no. ten for england today wouldnt have affected the result. ps on elbow incident shrettle was commiting a professional foul blocking horgans path, and so deserved a little "direction". comon england and sort your shit out and do a job on france for us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

  • 110.
  • At 12:23 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • jim wrote:

i fairness to the english, no team that they put out there today would have won that match. john hayes' tears during the anthems spoke volumes for what this occasion meant to ireland as a nation. nothing could have beaten such raw emotion.

  • 111.
  • At 12:27 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Richard W wrote:

A thoroughly enjoyable game of rugby, spoilt only by one Englishman - Brian Moore!

  • 112.
  • At 12:28 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Mark wrote:

What sets Ireland apart is that they play with the equivalent of 5 back-row forwards... Wallace, Easterby and Leamy were outstanding but D'Arcy and O'Driscoll continue to demonstrate the impact centres can have when they are quick in at the breakdown. Beautiful to watch such all-round players in action.

  • 113.
  • At 12:31 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • squib wrote:

simon (comment 40), france will murder ireland....did you even watch the france - ireland match? fair enough ireland underperformed but the passion was there and france stole the game in the last minute... now in perspective, ireland murdered england and deserved to win by 30 points they so soundly beat them by... and you think art is an idiot?!

  • 114.
  • At 12:32 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • londonwelsh89 wrote:

Well done Ireland today on a deserved win; payback for the times that england have done the reverse to you! I personally feel ireland are going very strong and will be semi-finalists at least at the world cup assuming they win their group; if they dont they get the ABs in the 1/4s! However I still feel that england were quite hard done by some of the refereeing at the scrums: every time england got into the irish half they usually knocked on or made a mistake, resulting in scrums. John Hayes was like a Jack in the Box: he popped up and collapsed at virtually every scrum, and the ref usually gave this AGAINST the english. The resulting penalties could have made the game very different. Horgan was very lucky stay on the field and not get a straight red for his altercation on Strettle. However, apart from these, Ireland convincingly played england off the park, and proved what many of us have suspected for a while-that JW is 1-dimensional and only good behind a dominant pack! Certainly O'gara played much better than him. Wales couldn't give you the result you needed, but at least they played a lot better! And scotland were just comical...France still to take the slam, ireland 2nd, england 3rd, wales 4th, italy 5th, scotland 6th is my final prediction, with the bottom three on points difference. Ireland still need to actually win something other than a triple crown though to be reckoned real world-beaters, especially since this group have been together so long. Lets just hope they stay lucky with injuries and the core of the team stays intact, because the replacements are nothing on the 1st team

  • 115.
  • At 12:33 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Joel wrote:

Farrell had a solid game and made an overall positive contibution. Wilko and Tindall did little to set the world shaking bt are avoiding any flack! Faz is a very promising part of England's world cup defence, and needs more support. Ireland's dominance in the loose forwards was the difference today. They played exceptionally!

Look, JWs good but he's no Dan Carter and as an Ulster and Ireland supporter i can admit that, namely because Dan Carter is in a league of his own. It's true that ROG had a good game due mainly to his forwards, but he did play well. JW may be good too, but he's not that good! it is a team game of 15 players and if England are depending on him then no wonder they got destroyed.

Rugby games are one and lost in the forwards and the backs decide by how much and this was evident today. The bigger English pack where bullied about the pitch by a great irish pack! However, i dont see why Easterby is getting so much credit as he didnt do much and shouldnt have been starting in the first place! Neil Best should be on instead of him easily, but obviously Eddie O'Sullivan doesn't watch Ulster games as last Friday night he was absolutely amazing! Man of the match twice in the Autumn but he doesnt get to play now? Someone please explain!!!

If it wasnt for that slip up last week Ireland would have the Grandslam in the bag! Think we have a good shot for second in the world cup and at the moment England are struggling to get out of the group stages!!!

P.S The Ulster players from Northern Ireland have to put up with a foreign national anthem every irish game, get over it!

  • 117.
  • At 12:36 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • sam daniels wrote:

england can still win the six nations, but today was a big wake up call to Ashton, and just reminds us all how far off the 2003 world cup team we still are. england need to sure up there forward play and carry the ball better

  • 118.
  • At 12:44 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • JOHN O wrote:

So it’s one thing to get beat, it’s another to get beaten up. Congrats to Ireland on a fabulous performance, we can take nothing away from them. England’s performance however, is another matter. Surely we have to ask how the fundamentals have changed so quickly, with the history involved at this venue, England were in for a nightmare before they left the changing room and yet they didn’t seem prepared!! Yes every team gives up big plays & oppositions will always score but, what happens next is the key ingredient. Remember when…where is the unity, the team huddle, who is calling the side together and marshalling the troops, who leads by example and commands respect, today no one. 15 men standing under the posts looking lost? Was it that many years ago that Martin Johnson horrified the Irish by deliberately taking the wrong end of the pitch and then some? So, we’ve changed coaches and brought in trainers…last time I checked they didn’t play on Saturdays. Isn’t it obvious, this isn’t rocket science; the game is won on the field and I’m sorry if I am old school, but the fundamentals are the fundamentals and today the England team looked timid, insecure and in need of leadership. On field leadership. Oh brother where art thou?

  • 119.
  • At 12:46 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Dan wrote:

Well you can't rely on the Welsh for anything. They had their chance against France and failed to do the job properly.

What hope now of England beating the French? I'll certainly be cheering you on.

Thank goodness that the world is finally waking up the sorry state of rugby commentary when the deplorable duo (the Brian and Eddie show) are on air. Bring back some realism. If you get the chance to hear the BBC commentary again, listen out for Brian Moore just as Issac Boss makes his intercept. Professional? Unbiased?

Congratulations to Ireland, now bring on the the Scots and Italians!

Come on England, you can take the French!

  • 120.
  • At 12:52 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • LJ wrote:

Firstly, well done to ireland for an outstanding display of rugby. A thoroughly deserved win.
Ashton is still trying to weed out the weaknesses in the team. The potential of a good team is there but needs to be developed. The main weakness is the english pack. Vickery and worsley are the two world class players that appeared in todays pack. The rest are near to useless at international rugby. Todays performance shows that we need thompson back for the line-outs, andrew sheridan for the scrums. We also need a decent second row and no 8.
Farrall is still new to ru and has done extremely well in the transition. I agree with the switch to stand-off but he should definately be kept in the team.
People are too harsh on ashton. He has had 3 games as coach, all in the six nations, and should not be expected to automatically turn to fortunes around. There should not have been much expectation after the autumn internationals yet people moan for something that takes time.

  • 121.
  • At 12:53 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • David wrote:

Thought Ellis did o.k. considering he was playing behind a well beaten pack. Strettle was the only positive, he certainly provides a spark and I hope he keeps his place v France.

Vickery doesn't look fit to me and is only getting in the side as Ashton rushed him back as captain.
Freshwater and Chuter have got to go. Would also like to see Rees in the back row for the next game.

Farrel/Tindall combo isn't working either, Tait or Allen must be considered for France.

Well played Ireland, a well deserved victory.

  • 122.
  • At 12:55 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Bwalker wrote:

''I'm afraid. France, NZ and South Africa will murder you''

simon commenting on ireland.
new zealand are the only team soundly able to beat anybody.france did not convincingly beat ireland it was dead even til the end without brian o driscoll & stringer its a big difference.if u hav drico and darcy together its a different story and they wud of beaten france.as for south africa and australia , they were beaten by ireland well a few months back

  • 123.
  • At 12:56 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Bwalker wrote:

''I'm afraid. France, NZ and South Africa will murder you''

simon commenting on ireland.
new zealand are the only team soundly able to beat anybody.france did not convincingly beat ireland it was dead even til the end without brian o driscoll & stringer its a big difference.if u hav drico and darcy together its a different story and they wud of beaten france.as for south africa and australia , they were beaten by ireland well a few months back

  • 124.
  • At 01:03 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Steve P wrote:

Comment No.7 about Farrell being better than Guscott!! What are you on? It's time you borrowed someones videos (as you obviously have not seen Guscott play, EVER.) and take a look at what Jerry Guscott was like as a player. Having said that, I bet Guscott would do a better job today than Farrell. Good grief!

  • 125.
  • At 01:16 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Guy Carpenter wrote:

Ireland - total respect and bloody well played . Dear ed2003 scotland probably thought the odd handling error wasn't the end of the world! Also hope i'm not alone in thinking the BBC late night coverage of Scotland V Italy was short to the point of ill mannered! Italy won their 1st away game (sorry scotland ) but it deserved more than a " it happened " entry .

  • 126.
  • At 01:27 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • PATRICK wrote:

i just thought ireland were better all over the field on the day.
o'gara at last seems to have the
mental strength for the big occasion,
but lets not get carried away just yet. we didn't play too well against
the welsh and they weren't at the races in the first half against the french.so its difficult to judge how good ireland really are. historically
we,ve been a nation of underdogs. ready to except defeat and suprised
when we win. so what they need to take them to semi finals of the world cup is arrogance which nations like the germans english and americans have in abundance.they don't hope to win they expect to win.so come on ireland start to believe you can win your next two
games against scotland and italy
as the advert goes believe !!
as for england they need to make themselves horrible to play against.thats why all the celtic nations feared and respected them down the years.

  • 127.
  • At 01:37 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Ruairi wrote:

Lucky it was raining;. would have been twice as many in the dry. darce and Bod would have scored a rake each.

england were lucky to get off so lightly.

  • 128.
  • At 01:43 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Abu wrote:

To Goodie. Give it ten year and it wont be a foriegn anthem for you.

  • 129.
  • At 01:44 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • David C wrote:

Better team won - no question. Ireland played better but they also played the ref better - reminiscent of England 4 years ago (Wallace and Easterby are nearly the equal of Back and Hill in the dark arts and that is high praise indeed from an englishman). What do England do? Recall Olly Barkley at 12, start Lewsey at 15 and recall Cohen on the wing. Look how effective Lamont and Horgan have been to see the impact Cohen could have!
The no9 jersey is still a big worry for England and I would start Perry next time out. As for the forwards, Stevens must come in as soon as he is fit and Palmer and Chris Jones need to play at Lock. I would also suggest (with great reluctance as Corry works so hard for his country) that Worsley plays at 8 with Lund at 6 and Rees at 7.

  • 130.
  • At 01:51 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Connal wrote:

I think that today Engand fans have been very decent about the Irish effort today - it was quite a heave. But Irish rugby plays some great stuff when their at it. I do remember some cretin on here last week though saying Ireland were lucky to win last year - they weren't and today confirms the superiority - David Wallace is the constant great in the Irish side

  • 131.
  • At 02:00 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Richie wrote:

''But well played Ireland, far better team on the day..however you wont get near the world cup I'm afraid. France, NZ and South Africa will murder you.''

Ye like SA murdered us in the Autumn. And like France did 2 weeks ago. Scored a last minute try, hardly murdered us. And if I recall we ran NZ pretty close over the summer. Probably the best game they've had in a while.

  • 132.
  • At 02:02 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Derek Fallon wrote:

Having been at the game all I can say is England were toatlly out-psyched by the Irish public respecting the english anthem and also a long standing ovation for the english team running out onto the pitch. The Irish public wanted its team to do its talking on the pitch and how they did that. Just an awesome display. So utterly proud to be Irish for lots of reasons today.

  • 133.
  • At 02:03 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • fonda cox wrote:


what if the irish pack were to strangle new zealand like that - would carter get as much quick ball? as all the english fans have quipped in dear jonny's defence; an out-half can only be effective as the forwards allow him to be...

  • 134.
  • At 02:32 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Tosh wrote:

team for france

15 - robinson (if fit, ceuto if not)
14 - strettle
13 - lewsey
12 - catt/barkley
11 - cohen
10 - wilkinson
9 - ellis

1 - white
2 - mears
3 - vickery
4 - jones
5 - grewcock
6 - worseley
7 - moody
8 - hill

dont really care about subs, so long as there is no tindall or farrell

  • 135.
  • At 02:57 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • John Ackerley wrote:

Very well done to Ireland, what a great atmosphere and a superb advertisement for Rugby Football and the passion that a game such as this can create. Big respect for the whole crowd in the way that the anthem was respected and I hope that you can now go on and win the Championship, such a shame that BOD was not available for the French game!! I am actually an Englishman and an England fan but sometimes you have to admit that you have been stuffed by a far superior team and that was the case in point today. It seems that far too many of Brian Ashton's selections have not come off as there are several players who were out there today in an England shirt who are either not ready for international Rugby Union or are simply going through the motions. Harsh, maybe, but the reality is that we now need to be building towards the World Cup in 2011 and can forget France in autumn for any success other than possible QF.

  • 136.
  • At 03:07 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Luke Swan wrote:

England is a disgrace to the jursey. I''m a big bath fan but after danny crewcock got himself sent off AGAIN! I don't think he should ever play for England again he's a disgrace to all of England. I used to say "give him a chance" and "it's his hard style of play" but he might of well have give Ireland there first two tries.

The whole England pack was poor from start to finish. As for the back line, apart from strette,
(who to, I doubted his abiity to play international rugby I apologize he had a good game) was out ran and over powered.

I love rugby and I love England Rugby more but tonight I am not to happy to be an Enlgand supporter.

I recored the game because I was working but I was so disgraced by Englands performance I deicided to hit the pub after the 60th minute mark (horgans try)

1. Freshwater- Got Bitched in the scrum and never turned up in the loose. 3

2. Chuter- Not much he could do apart from Throw the lineouts as best as he could (apart from martin Johnson MR 2 covering them!) 4

3. Victery got away with alot that the ref did not spot and was quite franly lucky he did 4

4. As I said earlier grewcock is a disgrace- 0

5. Deacon did not do to badldy but needs to shrapen up his line out. 6

6. Worsely again showed he cannot repeat his club form at internatioal level. 6

7. Lund- put in a stupid tackle which he should of been sent of for. 5

8. Corry did ok apart from having to fill grewcocks place. 6

9. Elis was arguealbe England best player always willing to try the gap and ask questions of the Irish. 8

10. Limited by the lack of possesion and still not the Wilkinson of old. 7

11. Strettle was rather good considering it was his fisrst game good try. 7

12. Farrell kicked when he should of past and visa via. 6

13. Tindell showed a good rush defence but not to much attacking skill. 7

14. Lewsey did not do much but defend (lack of possion or a drop in form?) 6

15. Ollie morgaqn was quite good till he injuried himself. 7

It would take me too long to go on about the subs or the Irish team

I feel sick to call myself a English rugby fan after that and I don't care what anyother blogger thinks England were a disgrace.

  • 137.
  • At 03:11 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Benjamin wrote:

Realistically, respect for the English anthem is the bare minimum I would expect (and reciprocally provide for the opposition – HQ is always silent for both ‘The Soldiers Song' and ‘Flower of Scotland’) from a knowledgeable Irish rugby crowd but what has that go to do with the 21st century?

In rugby terms, how Stringer stays on the pitch is beyond me but the majority of the Irish team played very well today. Well done.

  • 138.
  • At 03:25 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Colin Hickey wrote:

One simple thing gave Ireland the win. The Irish forwards dominated their opposition in all areas not just the lineout. Without forwards getting stuck in for the hard yards and cycling the ball back quickly the English backs could do nothing.
The one time England did do this Strettle scored. The difference was that it was the only time the English forwards really played.
I think the England front eight need a real shake up, Worsley and Rees being the only two England forwards I thought anything good of.

To your debate on Johnny, simply put he's the best sniping place kicker around. If you give away a penalty inside his range it's normally the same as giving England 3 points. Don't be too hard on the guy he's just got back in the squad.

The rest of the backs can't really be spoken of as they weren't in the game. Sure they get most of the points on the board but today was a study in why you have to have strong forwards.
You can be the best back row in the game if you don't get the ball you're next to useless, whether you come from league or a union background.

As to Ireland winning the world cup this summer, I think we're close to the form we need to be on, but I think not close enough. If we had treated the French to the same dish we fed England then maybe we could be more confident of that dream coming true.

  • 139.
  • At 03:59 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Johnny Clash wrote:

Stop moaning about the Irish pack making Ronan OG look good. This is rugby. Forward dominance is crucial. Very few no. 10s can play off a bad platform - Jonathan Davies was one. Look at how Robert Jones performed in the 1989 Lions, given a decent pack at last.

England had an astonishing pack up to 2003, which obviously made their backs' lives easier. Doesn't mean Wilkinson was over-rated, does it?

Anyway, now you're in your post-golden years phase, perhaps you understand how us Welsh fans feel!

At last, common ground.

  • 140.
  • At 04:02 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Willybach wrote:

Great performance from the Irish...

Ireland, surely have one of the most balanced, dynamic back rows in world rugby at present. O'Gara's definitely in the top 3 flyhalves...the centre partnership has gotta be right up there too, D'arcy has been a thorn in every side hes come up against this season. O'Connell was Irelands Jonhson today, immense presence. The hooker Best and the second rows combined well in the lineouts..if you had to nit-pick the irish selections at present, youd have to say that perhaps Boss is a better player than Stringer...

England...well, where to begin? I dunno, and im Welsh so perhaps take my opinions on the matter with a pinch of salt...but the English pack is in SERIOUS trouble (hows that for obvious statement of the year?) and lets not overlook the ages of these guys...they have to be replaced sooner rather than later...i think Grewcock is 32, Vickery plays like a 42 year-old, good player in his day but injury has ravaged him. Corry is 32 maybe older. We keep hearing about youngsters who should be getting picked for england, and recently Ollie Morgan and that Strettle (sp?) have proved that they can hack it with the big boys...so maybe its time to bight the bullet, get thumped a few more times with a young developing squad rather than recalling players who have had their best days.

  • 141.
  • At 04:04 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Blind Bob wrote:

Wales to win WC

  • 142.
  • At 04:31 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Joe wrote:

Ireland-23 France-18

The score of the group game.

Ireland-19 New Zealand-18

The score of the final.


  • 143.
  • At 04:39 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Joe wrote:

Willybach

Are you kidding me? Stringer's game was sublime. He's superb for that backline. Immdiate Ball! No messin' involved! O'Gara and O'Driscoll are the heads of this Hydra. Let the All Blacks try to chop off one or the other while the little man serves up perfect ball.

  • 144.
  • At 04:42 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • el craic wrote:

Yes Indeed...As EOS spoke about his out-half being as good as anything around? oh and God forbid that jonny might get his shirt dirty. To think there was a post here yesterday doubting our No.10. All you cynics and you mimics wasting all our precious time. Nice one Ronan!

  • 145.
  • At 04:53 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Pedrito wrote:

First of all, absolutely delighted by Ireland's performance today. They played with passion, commitment and focus and were rewarded for their efforts. If only we had played this way against France two weeks ago.

Secondly, let us not get carried away and start predicting a WC final appearance. Stay confident and focussed and take it one game at a time.

Third, to the many English fans who are acknowledging the Irish performance, thank you. To those English fans who blame the referee or whatever else...as someone else said, no one likes a sore loser. Give credit where credit is due. You were beaten by the better team on the day.

Finally, I believe Ireland can compete with any team in the NH, including the France. The last two years have basically seen the Irish beat themselves. We have shown that we can compete with them, now we just need to prove it where and when it counts in the RWC.

  • 146.
  • At 05:02 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • gareth wrote:

England didn't play well but the critism of Wilkinson, Farrell and Tindall is unfair. The forwards were awful and didn't provide the backs with a platform. Lewsey had another poor game and should be dropped for a Robinson/ Strettle combination.

  • 147.
  • At 05:04 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Dubian wrote:

As an Irishman living abroad I have never felt as proud as I did yesterday when I watched the match in Croke Park. What an advertisement for sport in Ireland. I am a passionate Irish rugby supporter (flew home to Dublin 2 weeks ago to be at the France match and will be flying to Edinburgh in less than 2 weeks' time to hopefully see the lads win the Triple Crown) and the hairs were standing on the back of my neck when the national anthems were being played. However, one thing I noticed here in Dubai was when God Save the Queen was being belted out by the Irish Army Band not one English supporter stood up in respect. Totally different story when our anthems were being belted out. And to see the passion in John Hayes, well it set the tone. The sense of inevitability was there.

I think the most rounded and reflective comment posted so far from an Irish point is Kia Rosa's - we are at best a RWC semi final team at this moment. Remember we have to beat Argentina AND France to win our group. Second place and we have NZ in Cardiff (providing of course Scotland can do us a favour?!?!?). Let's not get carried away with all this talk of the RWC - we haven't even won the Triple Crown yet and the elusive GS has slipped us by for another year. Once we have a few of them under our belt then I think we can start comparing ourselves on a consistent basis with the Southern Hemisphere teams (and France). We remain the second best team in the Northern Hemisphere and we will have to overcome huge obstacles and physcological issues (i.e. NZ) to progress past the QF stage in this competition.

However all that aside, let's all deservedly bask in the glory of a comprehensive victory - I was at the drubbing we received in 2003 (GS decider) so it was nice to be on the other end this time. Martin Johnston had some very decent things to say about our progress recently in The Times (compared us to where they were after that match) - let's hope he is right but let's finish one job first and not dwell too much on the next.

Well done lads - another very proud night being an Irishman abroad.

  • 148.
  • At 05:09 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Tony McNamara wrote:

I listened to the radio broadcast via the web, and extend congratulations and thanks for a coverage that was superb, truly almost like being there in person, and and as an Irish epxat so appreciated here in Perth Australia.
I know that on the day Ireland were totally dominant but really I don't think England players are as poor as perhaps they are being painted. Tactics need to be changed, players need to be allowed to express their individual flair; perhaps a little less coaching and a little more passion.

  • 149.
  • At 05:10 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • paul mc allister wrote:

as ian irish fan i was quite surpirsed at the lack of heart england played with. i was expecting a good game close came with ireland to just come out on top, but was not expecting the drubing that ireland handed out. i have been unimpressed with farrell so far after so much was made about his switching of codes while in reality he has been poor in all englands games. if england play like this in the world cup then they have no hope in retaining their crown and it will be with out a dout the most embarising title defence ever.

  • 150.
  • At 05:18 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • jcintokyo wrote:

I agree with Tim Kelly - also think Hickie and Horgan deserve 8 too.

What a match! The emotion during the anthems, the passion and ruthlessness of the Irish players (ok so Shaggy's elbow went flailing but can someone explain to me when it became ok to tackle someone in mid air?!!?)

I never thought we'd put 40 over on anyone, especially in such miserable conditions! I'm glad it was yesterday - absolutely fitting! And fair play to the supporters too - there wasn't a dry eye in Croker or in Paddy Foley's in Tokyo!

C'mon Ireland for the championship (c'mon England, let's see a backlash against France!!!)

  • 151.
  • At 05:33 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • James wrote:

The ratings on the Irish team were harsh. The ratings on the English team were generous. I'm disappointed the English lost, but given the fact my mothers Irish this occasion turned out well. I'm sure the Irish wish that they played France with the same intensity, because they surely would have won. Regardless of whether Ireland win the 6N, I'm sure they're World Cup contenders. This was just an emotive occasion from my point of view, one that was respectful and brief, but it's gone now, and the better team one on the day. England were outclassed. You just can't argue with that scoreline!

One thing I do have a problem with, is English saying that they're almost "suprised" the Irish could handle such an occasion. As if the Irish can't respect foreign customs, or a foreign anthem (which ultimately GSTQ is). Considering the occasion, you'd have thought the English would be less patronising. Regardless of that though, I consider it a massive part of a healing process. Not that anything will take away from the fact the Irish/Scots/Welsh will always want to beat us :P.

I was also never under doubt that the Irish would disrespect GSTQ. There are many ways to protest in a democracy without being insulting.

PS. Anyone or any team who dismisses the Irish will do so at their own peril. This is a quality side, one even the kiwis will be wary of. They play like clockwork when they get their ass in gear. They would have crushed the French had they started with the same intensity they did against England. Regardless of the 6N result, if they work themselves up, they will be a match for any team come the World Cup.

  • 152.
  • At 05:57 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • LL wrote:

Ireland played out of their skins.

Watch out the rest of the world we are bringing the world cup home to Ireland.

  • 153.
  • At 06:11 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • jcintokyo wrote:

Willybach - have to disagreee. Ok so Stringer with tired legs might not have made that run but he certainly would have seen the opportunity. And the tackles he put in, my particular favourite being his ankle tap! (I have fond memories of one of those stopping Robinson a couple of years back!) He also kept Ellis quiet.

He punches above his weight all the time and he's worth 3 times his weight on the pitch! Do you ever wonder why he always stands between O'Connell and O'Callaghan for the anthems? It's to make himself look even smaller so he won't be noticed for the threat he is!!!

  • 154.
  • At 06:13 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Dr Adrien Youell wrote:

England seemed to have feet and brains of lead. The Irish passed balls out the line from scrum and lineout. Whenever an Englishman got the ball an Irishman was slap in front of him and when the English kicked they consistently found an Irish player - not a white shirt.

I cannot help feeling the Irish were intelligent. The English team did not play as a team or certainly not international rugby. The crowd were not threatening, that was not the reason.

  • 155.
  • At 06:20 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • tom wrote:

I'm not an avid rugby fan, but I reckon this first real test of the 'Ashton Era' revival has shown just how much work he has left to do! Back in contention for the RWC...? Ha Ha Ha

Well done the Irish! You really kicked that English butt good 'n' hard!

  • 156.
  • At 06:50 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Sean wrote:

YOu can blame Grewcock all you want for getting sin binned, but calls for him to be removed from the team altogether are stupid. He's been the form 2nd row for the past 2 seasons and I can't think of another lock who provides his grit and strength. Deacon needs to go, he's had his chances and has always looked outclassed. Tom Palmer and Alex Brown should be given chances to prove their worth. Lund and Ellis were particularly dissapointing, as was Shaun Perry for the few minutes he was on. Give Pete Richards more game time or at least bring in Paul Hodgson! Richards was one of our best performers on the Australia tour and Hodgson has been consistently outstanding for London Irish. England still need to find a good balance in the back row. One positive that can be taken from the game was David Strettle's performance, hope he gets to start the next game.

  • 157.
  • At 06:53 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Jim wrote:

Best thing about watching the match was Brian Moore having to commentate through it all - not that I mind - just that it was quite funny.

Only pity is that Ireland wanted to wallop England so badly when France was the team to beat in terms of World Cup preparation.

Ireland have the squad but they need to play the bench more and make those final mental steps they still seem to lack to beat the very best.

Beating England is great for the Irish schoolboy inherited mentality -and it showed up the true state of the England team (didn't Farrell make Strettle's try?). But Ireland need to crack on - this is the best team in our lifetime and beating the south sea islanders is the real task? They are good enough but can they do it ?