Ugly win a thing of beauty (372)
- 14 Oct 07, 11:55 PM
Paris - Big sporting occasions can mess with people's minds. On Saturday night, as my brains were being blown out by the Marseillaise, I found myself making the sign of the cross and I very nearly cried.
When I tell you that I’m not sure I believe in God and that I blub about once every 10 years, usually when watching The Champ, you get some idea of the mind-bending atmosphere that was swirling round the Stade de France as England beat the World Cup hosts.
The scenes after the final whistle will live long in the memory: French fans disappearing from the ground as quickly as bath water being sucked down a plughole; England fans roaring along to Oasis’ Wonderwall; the tears of Sebastien Chabal.
Seeing a grown man weep is never nice. Seeing dear old "Sea Bass" weep was like walking in on your dad doing the vacuuming in one of your mum’s saucy negligees.
He who dares, Rodney, he who dares…that was the motto of the massed ranks of England supporters who had taken a punt and turned up on spec, hoping desperately to see their side shatter French dreams and march towards the final.
For the brave many, gaining entry to the match was as easy as shooting fish in a barrel. Row upon row of All Black fans waved surplus tickets as we made our way to the ground, all holding out for a silver lining to a miserable World Cup campaign.
A couple of mates set off from England at 5am and managed to blag their way in for free, a wild bet paying handsome dividends. If they had not spent the whole day singing I’ve Got a Golden Ticket, everything would have been just about perfect.
As for the game…well, what lovely, lovely boys those England lads are. Brutes, bullies, bludgeons, but lovely, lovely boys nevertheless.
I’m normally an aesthete when it comes to sport – give me Seve Ballesteros over Tiger Woods and John McEnroe over Pete Sampras any day of the week.
But there are occasions, and Saturday night was one of them, when I roll up the sleeves, rub the hands together and greedily gobble up a filthy victory.
England’s latest miracle amounted to more than just winning ugly. It was, if you will allow me to stretch a metaphor to snapping point, winning Pat Butcher – a growling, smoking, slattern of a victory, with varicose veins galore and gravel in its guts.
I imagine those Antipodeans bemoaning the manner of England’s semi-final win over France are the sort of people who like their crumpet blonde, buffed and brainless.
Not for them the joys of ‘The Grower’ - a man or woman lacking in looks but who, after 80 minutes of chat, suddenly becomes eminently attractive. It’s called personality - and in sport it goes a long way.
Hold on one second. I’ve just re-read that and you must now be thinking I’d like a nibble on The Butcher. I must stress that I wouldn’t, although at 4am on Sunday morning…
…aaah, Saturday night and Sunday morning. Not, thank heavens, the carnage of Marseille but a ruddy good knees-up nonetheless.
While the locals seemingly evaporated into thin air, Piaf’s "Je Ne Regrette Rien" drifting eerily through the door of the occasional bar, England’s fans trundled on into the night - bewitched, bewildered and bemused. And, for the most part, staggeringly drunk.
The LFMs (licence fee moaners) will be pleased to learn that I awoke on Sunday in a very pokey hotel room surrounded by four other men. That’s what you call saving the public’s pennies and that is what you call some unwelcome spooning.
The morning after the night before, the mantra remained the same: "England are in the World Cup final. How on earth did that happen?”
For Tommy and I, who thought England might not make it out of the group stages, the trip, which has been rattling along in fifth gear since their quarter-final win, has now shifted into hyperspace.
For the French, the party is over. The scene on Sunday afternoon as the Eiffel Tower’s giant scoreboard flashed France 9-14 England over and over again, each blink a little stab into Gallic hearts, was both painful and poignant.
So it’s South Africa in the final and what perfect symmetry it would be if England could avenge last month’s rather depressing defeat.
The Springboks may have won their dire semi-final with Argentina quite comfortably but there is a sense they have been travelling in the opposite direction to England since September’s group encounter.
Rattled by Tonga and very nearly rumbled by Fiji, they look far from unbeatable. England, on the other hand, have finally found that happy knack of winning, by hook or by crook.
Beg, steal or borrow in order to get here for the final. Be brave with regard to tickets and prepared to hold your nerve. It’s going to be the father, son and the holy ghost of all parties. Tommy and I will be going – make sure you are there too.
Ben Dirs is a BBC Sport journalist travelling around France in a camper van with Tom Fordyce. Click here to search for all of Tom and Ben's blog videos.
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This blog has been a pleasure to read!
Don't let the license fee whingers get you down! Get drunk some more! Lets see some photos of you chugging 1930s champagne while eating Beluga Caviar off of the belly button of a burlesque dancer's finely toned abs! I DEMAND MOAR!
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I will savour SA victory cause u guys will know uve been beaten BEAUTIFULLY. VIVE EXCITING RUGBY... Not your boring mindless "we have a front row and a kicker" style. SA will meet u on all levels and more.
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Ugly is never beautiful, but it can be (and in England's case is) effective.
For the sake of the game I hope the boks win on Saturday, but I have a horrible suspicion that on Sunday England fans will be singing
"We're s**t but we won the cup"
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i think you're grossly underestimated the south african team. its got quality stamped all over it. sure england were outstanding against lacklustre france and the hopeless wallabies, but penalty goals and scrums alone will not be enough to stop the springbok juggernaut. PS. south africa's got habana too!!!
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Ermm... Jacques, England actually scored more tries than the opposition v France. If France, Australia, NZ could swap positions with England they would. Furthermore, if England win (here's hoping), who cares what you think? In fact even if they lose, who cares? So wind your neck in and go suck on some sweet grapes. Go England!!!
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Ben, your blog is certainly more enjoyable than Ingerlund's knockout stage play... Although I find your crumpet comment very, very odd indeed... Lets say we of a Southern persuasion are actually seeking a more all encompassing, beautiful but classy morsel with brains and speed of thought and subtlety and humour, rather than the one dimensional, but admittedly sublimely booted fare sought by certain Northern Hemisphere natives.... Well done to England for knocking out two of the heavyweights with a gameplan to suit the situation, I can't support them in the final though, leaving the unpaletable thought of cheering the Saffies for the first time ever, but I saw more rugby played in the final 15 minutes of their 'dire' semi than the 80 coma inducing minutes, to a neutral, in the one the night before... believe me, whilst great for fans with a vested interest to cheer on their team to a surprise final, for the rest of us can only serve to kill the game we love and pray it isn't allowed to hold and taint the Web Ellis for the next four years.. Go Bokkies
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England, defending world Cup Chamigoons. Nxt week Boks vs Wilkinson.
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These people coming on here saying we only have a front row and a kicker - I only saw one try scored on Saturday night. Now who was that by again - England.
Great blog, boys!
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As a neutral, the SA vs Arg semi final was a damn sight more entertaining than the France game. Not forgetting that they absolutely anhilated you once already, i fail to see how you can be this over confident....South Africa are unbeaten for a very good reason, and they score tries, lots of tries, i hope the final will be entertaining and the score line reflects a more exciting game than we have seen previously.
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Jacques Malaprade: did you not notice the difference between the scores was the try we scored? It was fun watching the french play the 'typical english' way.
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it seems to me that producing mindless, jingoistic nonsense is a bit like rugby and cricket - the Brits invented it and have been producing it for a long time, but others - particularly those from the ex-colonies - have taken it up with a will and have overtaken us.
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Go South Africa!!
I wouldnt actually mind England winning, except that we would have to hear about it endlessly for the next 3 or 6 months, or probably even longer.
England fans are sooo boring. Just like their rugby team really!
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south africa scored 3 (or 4) tries against Argentina but every single one was counter attack from a poor mistake or the Argies trying to do too much and showing their lack of big game experience, England have shown that they have cool heads and beter decision making, I didnt see south africa create anything apart from the disallowed try.
The final will not be for the purists and the french will feel even more vindicated in their criticism of the English style. Fine, I hope it brings them consolation.
Argentina made so many mistakes last night, their lineout was woefull and they turned the ball over like there was no tomorrow, south africa will not get the same oppurtunities next week.
I think if England win it will be close, tense and ultimately could come down to a drop goal!
Is it ugly? Depends on your value system, all I know is that in 20 years all that will be remembered is that, incredibly, England defended their crown.
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What a final! Great story in itself! Can't see how we can call the Other Semi dire though mate, I'm sure it was every bit as spine tinglingly nerve shredding as our own for fans of the teams involved. Can we roll SA over? Yes... but the margins for error just keep getting smaller and smaller with our gameplan and the calibre oppo we're playing. Not so fussed about the group game result, I'm not sure who that'll help more actually, but I just can't shake the feeling that SA had the perfect preceeding game vs Argentina (can't call Arg a 'warm up' game these days!) for the similarity in styles. Despite what Jacques seems to suggest - SA, like Aus, ain't particularly creative themselves... but boy do they spank you for 7 if you make the slightest mistake. Habana in silky flow has got to be one of Sights To See in the World Cup... so I'm hoping i don't! If we get a couple of scores on the board early on then i think things will get interesting, but if we fall behind by a ways I fear we'll suffer from the same limitations as the Argentines and just not quite have the gameplan to claw it back. I just can't see SA going through one of their curiously distracted half hours against us, not in the Final. There's nowt wrong with the way we or Arg play - Arg did it just as well but to infinitely more applause for their grit and discipline from some of our SH cousins than we've enjoyed - it's bruisingly effective, but it IS limited. And that's the thing about limitations innit? They do rather limit you somewhat. We'll stick with what's got us to the Final, and rightly so, and hope another heroic display of guts and nerve bring us home. Fantastic game in prospect. Sod the try count -what makes sport good for the true neutral isn't tries or basketball scores, it's the drama of not knowing who's going to win, and this England team have been the soap opera of the RWC... possibly of ANY RWC if we pull it off. God help my heart if we're within touching distance going into the last 10.
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goodness, even the French are jumping on the bandwagon of anti-English. Don't suppose they remember that they also played in the game on Saturday. Can't blame us for everything! What were we supposed to do, not tackle? Not kick the points when penalties were given for fouls conceded under great pressure? Not take the opportunities to score when they come? Anyone saying their team wouldn't is deluding themselves.
I'm so happy we're in the final. All the bitterness that comes from the South (ie. southerly from Dover) is really green eyed jealousy. Nothing more, nothing less. I for one am glad you're jealous... means we have something you want... a place in the final. I'm looking forward to what should be a good game next week. The toughest challenge yet.
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Sorry I must of missed this exciting brand of rugby that SA played yesterday! Bar Brian Habana the SA attacking options mirror that of England.....
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Guys, and girls, on this blog. It's going to be a long enough week's waiting without all this petty squabbling about who's the best team, who deserves it and all that colonial rubbish. If the past few weeks have taught us anything it's that form is irrelevant and it's about who turns up on the day. If England turn up for the third weekend running then they can win, and deserve to, but if the final summit is one too far let's celebrate what we have achieved, be gracious losers (like the French were) and not turn on our team...
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Great modern-culture metaphor Ben ... an EastEnders icon is far less jingoistic than the "Bulldog Spirit"(and keeps the Beeb paymasters happy no doubt!)
As a former Beeb worker I've been really impressed at the risqué nature of some of yours and Tom's entries and the fact that the blogs don't feel too moderated (even if you are filtering out all the posts where antipodean ire is reduced to calling us c's and threatening refs with retributive assasinations!)
There has still been a plethora of whining and whinging - again the French who have had more cause maybe to be angry given it's their world cup, have seemingly been more magnanimous and gracious in defeat than a vocal minority of antipodeans (and a few sour, disgruntled Celts).
I'm sure there's enough frenchmen who can speak-write enough english to make their feelings felt here - but even their own media has been sanguine. So let's shake that nation by the hand, give old Sea Bass a hug and if you can buy them a couple of Pastis or Vin de Table I'll be happy to subsidise it with my Licence Fee.
And to the Antipodean factions (and please note it is just a vocal faction not a majority) ... the ones who'll support anyone but England and go on about the fact that the Northern Hemisphere have ruined the "beautiful" game. Please, please play in your own league or something and invent a new game you can be great at ... or possibly just stick to Netball ;-)
In the meantime roll on the Saffas!
Allez les ros bifs!
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I'm still chuckling at Babbo's comment haha I like that. I'll be passing it off as mine down the pub in a bit haha
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Jacques - obviously a bitter, frenchman who cannot accept his team were beaten by a superior team (self visions of grandeur -like the french football team)
This is the same boring pointless argument of 4 years ago when the ~
Auzzies whinged that all we had was JW for kicking our points, then other than the early try all their points were kicked!
We also scored in the same fasion albeit in a different sequence, with one exception, 26 seconds to go JW with a sublime drop goal
RESULT
England World Cup Champions
Every single player from every single team would have taken the style of victory 4 years ago and IF we prevail on Saturday no matter what they say (whinge about) in public they would again because this is what they are all here for, to win
SO STOP THE WHINGING AND ENJOY THE TOURNAMENT AND LOOK FORWARD TO ANOTHER 4 YEARS OF ENGLAND AS CHAMPIONS!!
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Jacques...... remind me who did SA beat in Qtr and semi's on route.....oh yes Fiji that titaninc team of the south pacific and an Argentinian team full of passion and a few good players..... seems the only decent game so far from SA was against England! Cant see it being repeated, once bitten twice shy!
Go England!
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Interesting that two teams from the same group are in the final.
I thought the SA/Eng group was the toughest group. Tonga and Samoa are big physical sides - virtually NZ B or C teams. Ironically it probably helped England to have some tough matches as compared to NZs group (Scot, Italy etc!)
More thought needed for the next RWC when it comes to groups.
Antway, a good victory. Didn't expect Eng to get to the final, so will have to grovel to get the time off work!
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Well lets deal with a couple of points from all the England haters out there. Winning ugly? Our guys are still in France, Welsh, Irish, Scots, back home playing for their own clubs. So called superb all blacks and Australia back home too. I'd rather win ugly and be in the final than be back home with all the above mentioned sad fans.
Comment number 3 above SA the beautiful game my ass. You obviously didn't watch the endless kicking by your side last night and two interception tries and a mistake turnover do not constitute beautiful rugby. The occasion got to Argentina and their big names under performed, but not before they had seriously dented your scrummaging pride.
Two wide margin wins on tour against our 4th team and a 36 0 drubbing of our woefully under performing team earlier in the tournament quite rightly have SA favourites, but I didn't see anything last night that would cause me sleepless nights worrying of another hiding. We have come along way in 4 weeks and sure it is is going to need a super human effort to beat the Boks but as the last 2 games show we have the ability so go on boys win ugly and be proud making history.
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The bookies favour SA to win and rugby as a spectator sport needs either an SA win or an England win with open and entertaining rugby(wouldn't that be nice!). That is a neutral's view but I do understand the nationalistic viewpoint that a boring game producing a win is better than a flowing loss.
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I saw a dire semi-final on Saturday night not Sunday. There were a lot of teams in the competition who could have beaten France when they were playing that badly. England managed to win only by a small margin after spending a long time behind.
That sort of game is not going to inspire anyone to want to play rugby. Like Ewen, I too hope for the sake of the game that the Springboks win next Saturday. Unlike him, I believe they will.
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Just to say that is one of the funniest things I have read in a long time...BRILLIANT Mr Dirs!!!
Personally speaking, this World Cup is better then 2003, cos we expected to win then, whereas on paper before the 2007 competition we didn't have a chance...so I am really enjoying the nerve jangling exploits of our red and white heroes....C'mon boys!!!
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Errrr mate it werent wonderwall, it was dont look back in anger man
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south africa play good attacking rugby and at the same time are able to defend. so england i'm afraid will be well beaten. there's only so much you can do with a dependence on winning through kicking. even if wilkinson does kick well, sa will score tries and so england's lack of score trying ability will be exposed
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Anyone fall asleep watching south africa last night, did they play any rugby? They didnt create one attacking moment, just lived off Argentinas mistakes. God it was boring
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That photo is of my friends and me!!
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England won in 2003 with a 'machine-like' performance (call it ugly rugby if you will) and they are seriously in line to do it again. Fair play to them.
The point is, win or lose in the final, England are on top of the world again but are we then going to see the same shambolic England inter-RWC as we saw from 03 to 07?
Do England have the unique ability to lift themselves for this particular tournament in a way that the All Blacks can only dream of only to go back into their shells again until the next time?
...and finally, is it good for rugby?
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Sour Grapes all round for the anti english mob. Its all about winning, doesnt matter by how much or how you do it, YOU WIN.
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Having watched the Argies take on and for most of it dominate the boks, I wonder (fingers crossed)if this is the underdogs tournament (albeit my argument ends with the Argie defeat). Argentina gifted all tries, they controlled the scrum, won the loose, were average in the line out......all areas where England WILL be better than the Argies......come on England lets take it to the Boks face to face.....hope Habanna gets an early run and feels what hitting a ruck and being counter rucked is like ;)
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Nothing wrong with dressing up in womens underwear for the housework in South Africa apparently....As the nation starts the turn the cogs and resemble a workforce today thoughts wonder to how many "big screens" can be erected in one night to be accompanied by kebab vans and some polish boys sells cases of beers. Saturday feels a long way away right now....bring it on.
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Ben, your and Tom's blogs continue to be a highlight of my day, any chance you can keep them going when you get back? :) Maybe the Beeb can keep you in that campervan tootling around Britain?
One thing that is really heartening about our situation is that, for once, an English sporting team seems to have developed a killer instinct and self-belief, (albeit with a wonderful continued humility) which goes against our national psyche. About blooming time! I know other people have said it in the last few days, but England football team, please take note of some decent sports psychology (oh, and please stick with Gareth Barry.)
All that said, I'm still preparing myself for a double disappointment next weekend, I'm not sure I can dare to dream that the England boys and Lewis can pull it off next weekend!
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Hello? Hello? Anyone out there capable of just enjoying the rubgy, instead of wasting energy on vitriolic nonsense?
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Winners win and losers make excuses. It’s also an international final which will make it a very tight game, when two teams are giving it their all to win.
I’m sure the rules of rugby will be changed again to suit the southern hemisphere teams due to them constantly moaning and their influence on the game. It makes a mockery of a sport when its most basic rules are constantly being disputed, because teams refuse to adapt and simply cry until they get their own way.
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What's all this crap about playing ugly? To anybody who understands the game England have played some decent stuff in the last few games. I think this style thing is usual nonsense to cover up the inadequacies of some of the teams no longer in the tournament.
The game requires forwards (remember them Australia), backs, guts, a gameplan that's flexible and above all decision-making (All Blacks take note). 'Style' is but one attribute with many different meanings.
I will concede that defences have been very good which has limited some of the try-making opportunities. However, if we continue to get cynical killing of the ball which denies a try (remember again Australia)which does not carry a fuller penalty and if we continue to award 3 points for a drop goal rather than 2 points then its not surprising.
And what is so ugly watching a scrum being decimated and going backwards. Since when was rugby invented for handbag-carrying players?
And what was so stylish for the All Blacks to spend about ten minutes (at least) for a rotating forward to move an inch at a time against France?
The game has got a lot quicker since I played but the same basic rules apply to win. As for the England-France game, who cannot deny it was compelling from a dramatic perspective?
Let's face it, this tournament would have been pretty boring without the England story. What a great final in prospect with such symmetry.
Oh - and it looks pretty official that the original group containing the finalists was the hardest by some distance.
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The comments in this blog have been spot on.
It was not a game of beauty, nor yet a game of young soldiers, merely veterans showing the youngest how to play.
In the future, however, all that will stand testament to time is the score and that's what it's all about!
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Guys guys guys... a "dire" semi-final win over Argentina? Which game were you watching on Saturday night? I watched both semis, and while neither was a classic I found myself annoyed after the Eng-Fra game... because of how "dire" that win was for England... But that's subjective.
14-9 against France?
or 37-13 against and Argentina team that beat the French 5 times in their last 6 games, quite a few of them in France?
Bias is ok and all, but that is dangerously close to denial.
Also it says very little about next Saturday. Jonny alone make England a great team, therefore the 36-0 only gives the Boks a psychological advantage.
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I agree with tomthepom. No matter what happens, couldn't ask for anything more than England reaching the final twice in a row, so even if they lose, I'll still be proud of my team.
Let's not write SA off just yet-good team and they do have the ability. We shall just have to wait and see...
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i dont quite understand how you can boast about how england scored the only try when it was a pretty flukey one at that. Lucky bounce and unlikely slip of the french player and that was it, apart from that england hardly looked like scoring a try.
At the same time the french failed to take their multiple chances to put the game out of englands hands while they outplayed england for most of the first half and large parts of the second. If you dont do that you dont deserve the win.
England have definately shown a lot of spirit but it has been a bit overly exagerated by other teams lack of ability to show up on the day and finish them off when they could have.
For rugby's sake i hope the saffers win as much as it pains me to go for them! But congrats to england for punching well above their weight so far.
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never in my sporting memory has a team of ramshackled underdogs done the impossible, why not basque in the glory that thus far is a remarkable achievement. we will fight them on the beaches is the cry, and saturday will be no different, stop bemoaning the ugly game and sing the national anthem with pride. come on england
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This World Cup hasn't been the most entertaining, but it has still managed to keep everyone enthralled with it's twists and turns. England have made it to the final, even though Australia, New Zealand and France stood in the way. Stop the criticism and get behind the team that could well be writing history as the only side to be consectutive world cup champs. Whether they get their through skil and performance or sheer luck, I do not care.
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Tomthepom
Agreed! Worth remembering that after next weekend England have done well to get this far. While we are talking about entertaining rugby, sure NZ play great and are a joy to watch, but then so is Japan (They run a lot and their forwards punch above their weight) and has any body seen USA play Canada? Well that’s pretty entertaining (always plenty of "rucks")but that is not what the WC is about it's about winning, for my money SA probably going to do it, but England will make it very hard, as for France I have a lot of French friends spent 4 years in Germany with the French army (Baden)My heart goes out to you and you will recover very quickly I am sure, good wishes to all
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The 2 teams in the final are the 2 teams that have played the right gameplan in the right game. I suppose we could've gone out and tried to outplay the Aussies with attractive flowing rugby, but would we be here now, unlikely. It doesn't say much for the teams who lost to us, if they can't even beat a team with just a front row and a kicker. That is, after all, just 4 players. Also, before all the bitter folk start cheering on the Boks, didn't about 80% of their tries last night come from Argentina turnovers, surely that reflects more on poor play by Argentina than good play by the Boks.
I'd like to think that come Saturday, those boys in white with the word "Champions" stamped all over them, will not be so generous.
COME ON ENGLAND!!!
P.S. I was at the trophy parade in London all those years ago and remember John Inverdale saying that the only thing better than beating the Aussies in their own World Cup, would be to beat the French in their own World Cup! John Inverdale, how right you were...how right you were!!!
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England are in a win-win situation. Lose on Saturday and they've done brilliantly to get there, win and they are miraculous. All the pressure is on South Africa. It'll be tight and nasty and I'm going to love it.
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Well done to England for "winning ugly". Can someone now explain why Scotland on beating Italy playing the same were so "heavily criticized?
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SWING-LOW!!! SWEET CHARIOT!!!...
Why does this week take so long to pass? I think England have the better chance of winning because they've rediscovered they're winning form and their whole pack is unstoppable. Forget the Bokkies' juggernaut, its now time to hype up england's instead.
C'MON!!!!
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I'll be in France for the final on Saturday and I will be proud to support England, not only because it is my second home but the team have shown such courage. Ensemble, ils ont du cran et de la chaleur du sang. However, I do hope they sort their lineout out before the weekend. Also, Josh Lewsey will be a big loss.
As for Habana, (Max #5) he is very fast but over-rated, one dimensional, over-padded and usually offside. And as for Percy Poser Montgomery! Well, Will Greenwood had some lovely comments about him on Saturday.
I was going to say that we should not lose the spirit of this blog and the RWC by reducing it to throwing silly insults - but I seem to be doing it myself now.
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all the boring rugby comments that are being thrown around are motivated by one thing.. jealousy, that we are the world cup holders and we are in the final.. we have had to beat better teams to get here and regardless of whether we lose or not will have had a better tournament than the vast majority of the southern hemisphere arrogant chokers and celtic windbag chip on shoulders!! england has always been the greatest country on earth, and always will, whether we are crap at sport ot not..cmmmmmon england
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“Kill the game we love”. Well if you love it and know it so well you’ll be aware it is the ultimate team-game for players of all shapes and sizes. The laws of the game are there for all to see and abide by, and surely it is the team who adapt best to the laws who prosper, be that by honest means or otherwise. At the end of the day it is results that count – not artistic merit. England –v- Australia, I thought both teams played rugby but only one winner. NZ?? What can you say? They need to win. Very refreshing to see Corry et-al to earlier say- basically we were crap. No blame on Refs, match balls, weather, teams playing against us, etc, etc.
Bit rich of AB’s to shout of about virtue of free flowing Super14’s, then winge and whine about a couple of forward passes. Has O’Brien (a Kiwi) said: It happens- live with it. Don’t think the ref stopped them slotting over a match winning drop goal in the last 15 when they had all the possession, did he?? What would ALL other teams do in that situation……….play open running ‘beautiful rugby?? Wake up!
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Max (reply 5),
I think that you missed what Ben was saying; I doubt that any of us underestimate how good the SAs are, but England's Rugby and team spirit have improved so that we are winning games that no one thought we had any right to win, whereas South Africa seem to have been going backwards struggling to finish games they should have cruised through.
You can only beat what is in front of you and frankly I am rather insulted you call France and Australia lackluster and woeful. You seem to be attributing the English victories to the poorness of the opposing side, I ask you now how much did English forward power have to do with making them look poor? Quite a lot with Australia, because they are one of the best sides in the world infact before the WC started they were rated as the second best rugby nation in the world and were playing some very attractive games.
I'm assuming you are going to be supporting SA on saturday so I thought I'd just remind you that you only edged out Australia in the Tri Nations cup using Penalties and Drop goals so it is a good winning tactic and is capable of putting SA out of the cup.
Moving on... English rugby is both ugly and beautiful, the problem is that instead of flowing moves in the backs the english have most of their technicality tied up in a clever kicking game and forward skill. Yes forward skill! If you have ever played in a forward pack then you will know that lineouts, scums, rucks, mauls are not just a matter of brute strength, but also requires clever use of body angles, body placement and a hell of a lot of unspoken communication and teamwork in the mayhem surrounding you. It doesn't look pretty, but I assure you that a group of forwards working hard up the center of the field are showing just as much skill and team work as a group of backs throwing long passes and changing the angle of attack.
Fancy battle plans can lead to famous victories, but they can also lead to a horrific defeat. The English are a part of Britain and Britain won many battles and wars, by using steady sensible tried and tested tactics. We are one of the more reserved and concervative nations in the world and I'll be damned if I will see my national team play any other way just to please some neutrals. We don't care what you think of our Rugby, it works and it has beaten flair more times than not.
So sirs it is a dual; the field of battle is Paris, bring your best 22 men and let the last side standing be declared The Champions. May the best Englishmen win!
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What's the difference between the Southern Hemisphere and a 747?
The 747 stops whining when it lands.
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If all those people think exciting rugby is all about scoring tries, then they do not understand the game. Resolute defence, big tackles, try saving tackles, two big packs going head to head, kicks that gain yards or points, its all good. Even my sister, who for her sins lives with a scotsman, told me she was jumping round the room Saturday night, and you could count the number of rugby games she has watched on one hand. I doubt if many of the whingers commenting will be English supporters, certainly not from the reaction that went round The Cricketers Pub in Bedford on Saturday night, which is a rugby pub strangely!!
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Benders, apparently Jason Leonard is going to play Pat Butcher in panto this year.
As an England fan, I hope of course we win on Sat, but our backs have got their work cut out. The boks finishing looks hot.
Need another big game up front...
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You know the worse thing about England winning the Rugby World Cup next weekend?
There won't be many more blogs to read from our Ben and Tom.
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It may be ugly but it's effective and as an Englishman who's fed up of the "it's not the winning it's the taking part that counts" mentality that is being pedalled in schools I'm glad to see an England team that it's winning whatever it takes!! Neither game was pretty at the weekend but the amount of screaming at Steve Walsh (why that man is allowed to ref a semi I'll never know) by the South African's whenever there was an infingement was appalling this is Rugby not Football boys just play your game and let the ref do his job!! Like many people have commented a large number of SA scores last night were argie errors which they wont get against England!!
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As an irish fan, I have to admit i will be throwing my support behind England come the 20th. Who would've believed it? Answer: The England camp. No-one else. Magnificent! It wasn't pretty, but it was all heart! 80 mins away from glory. Think on this:
If England win;
First team to win consecutive RWCs.
First team to lose in the pool stages and win the tournament.
First team to zero out in a pool game and win the tournament.
HISTORY IN THE MAKING!!
Go England!!
David Brodie #50, the reasons Scotland were so heavily criticised against Italy were: Scotland failed to score TRIES against a weakened Italy (Scotland 1st Team), and England deserve the plaudits because they have fielded their strongest side in every game and chickened out of none, despite the South Africa drubbing or turnaround between games. The Scotland coach was a disgrace after the NZ debacle! Well done Brian Ashton and England, against all odds! make the 6Ns proud!
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All of those people complaining about "lack of style" have obviously never crossed the white line, never played the game. These England players will be having the time of their lives, because playing the way that they're playing is seriously enjoyable - absolutely 100% full on rugby, no quarter given. For players, that's what the game is about, and that is why they play.
Sure, watching a winger take out another winger on the outside in a run to the line is a thing of beauty, but it is one aspect only of this great game. This RWC has proved that real rugby is still alive and kicking at the top level, as opposed to the candy floss stuff played in the SH, which was created for a TV audience of non-players, and which does not hold up once real yard by yard pressure comes on.
It will be fascinating to see how SA play if England can put the squeeze on them from the first whistle on Saturday.
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Seems to me that the southern Hemisphere has sold it's soul to the USA and been poisoned by that American belief that for sport to be good and beautiful it must involve lots of running around like headless chickens, scoring freely at both ends of the pitch until the whistle blows and the team that happems to be in front at that point wins. If that's how you like your rugby, then watch RL, the most sterile and mindless form of rugby known to man. The whole essence of rugby union is based on the fact that you have a pack of forwards who are there to win and retain ball. If you can't get the ball off them, you'll lose, it's as simple as that. If you put out a front row consisting of Yellow Jersey'ed jelly babies, you'll lose. Remember the old adage, Forwards win games, backs determine by how many. If our forwards negate your forwards then we will win, but that, to a rugby purist, doesn't mean that the win won't be exciting, enthralling and absorbing as Saturday nights game was to rugby enthusiasts of any country who had the slightest understanding of the roots and ethos of the game. Personally I don't give a flying fig if we only beat the 'Boks 3 - 0 'cos it'll probably mean that it's been the mother of all forward battles that will have kept us on the edge of our seats for 80 minutes.
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Has anyone noticed the dignity with which Australia, France and Argentina have accepted their defeats? This is a marked contract to those whining Kiwis!
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It doesn't matter that the England try was flukey - an opportunity presented itself and it was taken. After all that's just how SA won their semi.
I had a sneaking hope before the World Cup that we might do better than our recent results had indicated. We had great players but they needed to spend some time together. They are now playing for each other as well as their country and that is what has helped them get through.
Win or lose on saturday I will be so proud of our boys.
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Personally I think England never won Saturday's game... France just lost.
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A victory for SA in the final
would be a victory for rugby itself. They have been thus far the best team in the tournament, and the only unbeaten one. They have scored 33 tries (to England's pathetic 12), and played quality rugby, which makes them eminently more watchable than England. Of course, the English would take 3-0 wins forever without thinking about the consequences for the game. And whilst we Welsh could do with a few 3-0 wins, we are still proud that we scored 23 tries ourselves in four matches and occasionally played some wonderful rugby. Winning, however, is important, but I would wish that winners did it in style, because that is what rugby needs.
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Well, congrats to England from France (Biarritz !).
You deserved to win even if it was very tight. I think you kept your cool and composure even when your forwards got tired.
Do not pay any attention to negative comments like Jacques' ones. His behaviour does not represent at all the way french fans have reacted to this defeat. We are very sad but everybody recognises England's merits over here. No problem whatsoever. Your boys have done the job even if the your team is not as brillant as it used to be 4 years ago (but you had the strongest team in the world back then, no doubt about that !).
The only frustration comes from the fact we do not play our style of rugby anymore and from lame ass Laporte's tactics. Many french rugby fans knew what kind of scenario to expect. It is no surpise whatsoever. We cannot play against defensive teams. We do not know anymore what to do with the ball. Laporte has tried to make us play the english way for several years now but we will never match England at this sort of game. It is not our culture.
There were many situations where you could see 3-4 french players on the wings against only one-two english players. But would we play there ? No ! Thanks again Laporte.
Regarding the final, it's gonna be a very tough game. The only worry for England is that this SA team knows how to make the ball run quickly and takes advantage of every opportunity.
But who knows what's gonna happen with the great spirit the England squad are showing right now.
Good luck and well done England.
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Much as I feel compelled to doff my cap at England's spirit and savvyness as they prepare to take their well deserved place in the final, I would rather endure Pat Butcher hoovering in the buff than an England win. This grumpy stance is due to all the ‘fans’ coming out of the woodwork again after 4 years of welcome hibernation.
Already this morning I’ve heard “Why do people keep talking about the forwards when Johnny scores all the points”. I might go home soon before I hear “That Jim Rozenthal really knows his stuff”. I’m all for celebrating sporting success for any of the home nations, but can a law be passed this week send people to jail if they claim to be a huge rugby fan but can’t name more than two players in the team of the jersey they are wearing?
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I for one am immensely proud of England whatever happens against SA this Saturday, the boys have defended OUR crown with Pride and Passion, what more can we ask.
I genuinely feel for the French, but admire their largely magnanimous attitude in defeat, a mutual respect there I feel. Less can be said from many of our other competitors, I actually find some of the anti English sentiment on these pages quite astonishing….
Nobody likes us but we don’t care!
As another poster said last week…. This isn’t sevens, it isn’t touch rugby, and it certainly isn’t league….. so may the best team win RWC2007, the uglier and grumpier the better!
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If New Zealand or Australia had reached the RWC final and had the chance to win the cup by scoring 5 penalties to South Africa's 2 goals, does anyone really think either team would play supposedly beautiful rugby? There's only one answer to that and all the petty carping about the limitations of the current England team cannot hide that fact. At least the Aussies accepted they were beaten by a better team and that's why their record in competitive rugby is infinitely better than the Auto Erotics whose ability to rewrite the history of rugby as a fantasy knocks Stalinist revisionists into a cocked hat. Colin Meads in his illustrious career was interested in one thing and one thing only - winning the game. When Don Clarke kicked his 6 penalties to beat the 4-try British Lions by a point, nobody in the SH was shouting the odds about beautiful rugby. All we're witnessing at the moment is the bitterness of losers: if the Boks win on Saturday by playing ugly, good luck to them because, at heart, rugby is an ugly game. If we wanted it otherwise then we'd all be traipsing off to Wembley and the like to watch the Drogbas and Didas of this world fall over like Andy Haden. I don't do jingoism or hubris and neither should anyone else unless they like bitter taste of failure that is most frequently their reward. Rugby is a game where respect should be shown in equal measure to the officials and the opposition and if it isn't, the game's not worth playing. England has profited in part by the poor tactics of the opposition at this competition which has seen the team best suited to win this RWC go out. That's not the fault of the English, they have still had to go on and win their matches where others who had chances aplenty did not have the mental resolve to see it through. I hope the French get the chance to lift the trophy in 2011 because the players were let down by dopey selections and even more dopey tactics this time around.
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I seem to be somewhat confused. I though the whole point of the competitive sports is to win within the rules of the game. If you want "style" read a fashion magazine, sport is about winning. The whinging about "style" seems to be done by the losing sides' fans, who should really consider that not being able to lose gracefully is also "ugly".
Lastly, personally what I find really ugly is to watch players constantly kicking off on the pitch, which I have seen twice now in SA vs Fiji and SA vs Argentina. Is that part of the "style" and the beautiful game that they are meant to be playing?
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Can't help thinking that at least some of the 'Neutral' bent who are grumpily demanding a balanced, free flowing try-fest for the Good Of The Game are in their heart of hearts actually wanting SA to slaughter us 36-0 again and for there to be many lingering camera shots of England fans in tears come the end. I also wouldn't mind betting that if SA were to beat England in the same manner and scoreline as England beat France there won't be anywhere near the same vitriol on these pages from the 'Neutrals' as if we rolled SA over the same way. Seige mentality? You betcha! We get virtually nil credit for our guts and nerve and every team we've beaten has beaten themselves (and could actually have been rolled over by a bunch of grannies0 if you believe some of the comments you read here.
Funny thing Neutrality. It's unfair to disqualify all comments from fans of losing teams on the grounds of sour grapes... but with the bitterness of some of the diatribes on these pages from fans of losing teams it's hard work not to as a rule.
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I am a South African living in London and I love the excitement surrounding the game. I am surprised at the utter conviction of the English press that England will be victorious. I am crossing all my fingers and toes for the Springboks and I hope for a very decisive defeat of England. Long live the Springboks! Nothing would be better to see John Smit lift that cup and the English press eating some humble pie.
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Dan K......you are an idiot.
How can you criticise the Boks for questioning some of Walsh's decisions when england constantly do so no matter the ref or opposition. case of double standards.
Why did they have 2 Englsih touch judges and an English TMO for a game which decided a finalist to play England?
England once again are being arrogant, pompous and heading for a mighty fall against probably the best team in the world right now. Better forwards, backs and centre pairing and a scrum half that is head and shoulders above any other. England are a one man team (and not a World class player at that) and his kicking has been second class throughout (although he can blame the balls all he wants).
Every other rugby playing nation and true rugby supporter will be looking for a SA win on Saturday as they play a more fluent, attacking and dynamic game. It will be a black day for rugby should England win this (doubtful) and perhaps it will show "Ingerlund" that against a good team they are lightweights.
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I am a South African living in London and I love the excitement surrounding the game. I am surprised at the utter conviction of the English press that England will be victorious. I am crossing all my fingers and toes for the Springboks and I hope for a very decisive defeat of England. Long live the Springboks! Nothing would be better to see John Smit lift that cup and the English press eating some humble pie.
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Everyone goes on endlessly about Jonny Wilkinson being the only good thing in the England side, and I'm not disputing that he is a fantastic player and we are a better side when he's in. But for all his undoubted ability on Saturday he wasn't slotting penalties from 55m, he was taking them from close to the posts after France infringed under pressure. Now I may have celebrated pretty hard but I don't recall Wilkinson making several 60m runs to set up these kicks, instead England were in that position because they tackled hard across the field, stole ball at the breakdown and recycled well, gradually working up to a good field position. One man cannot do that! As for it being boring, I defy you to find an English or Frenchmen who was able to turn away during the last 10 minutes. So stop complaining, we worked hard and got to the final, you didn't.
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First, let me just say that i love the blog! been addicted to it. :-P
I think France has not played well on Saturday night; hence i'm dissapointed with not qualifying but not devastated.
England has played better than France, sure, but they were far from being at the top too, and there is a lot of space for improvement if they want to beat SouthAfr on the 20th.
That being said, I think both country should be happy they restore North Hemisphere reputation after what we've been put through at pool stage.
Good luck for next saturday. The World Cup has been great, whoever takes it next week.
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Re post 2 from Jacques - you probably have not had the advantage of information that I have, but via Ben's masterly Cricket Blogs this year, I feel I have come to know a bit about Mr Dirs Senior. All I can say is, you REALLY shouldn't have said that.
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Last night's match was "dire"?? What game were you watching Ben? Think you might have been watching reruns of the previous night. (From the sounds of things, the commentators were). The Boks were outstanding last night, and Argentina only made mistakes because of the pressure being applied. True, the quarter final wasn't a high point, but it reminds me a lot of the 2003 Wales v England quarter. You could have interpreted that as "losing momentum" or, alternatively, a good wakeup call. I know which way I'd interpret it.
Man-for-man SA is stronger in every department and, after a superb display last night against a gutsy Argentina, clearly the one thing they DO have is momentum. Remember this was the team that DESTROYED france - a French team that England managed to beat after the rugby equivalent of a 0-0 bore draw won on penalties). Our backline, guided by Eddie Jones, has been putting together moves that Tait, Hipkiss and co could only dream of. Percy is making his kicks. Habana is unstoppable and, for anyone who hasn't watched last season's Super 14 final, has bucket loads of BMT when the pressure is on. If the Boks play like they did last night it'll be a try fest.
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will the petty comments about england's "boring" victories please cease. i'm irish and i'm very very impressed with england's rugby team at the moment. most irish fans would take a place in the wc final and beating australia and especially france even in a so called "boring" way. In my opion the england france game was a fascinating battle of wills between 2 strong sides. the english scrum dominated and the tackling was ferocious and in my view that looks fantastic to see. congrats to england for their strength of character and team spirit- I hope ireland can do the same. To be honest i dont really like sa and their dirty tactics so i will be shouting for england even if it means another 4 years of "we are the best"- lol. it is true that if the english win it again, that they are the best and no amount of whinging from nz or australia or france etc etc about boring rugby can dispute that. in my eyes whoever manages to get to the final are the 2 best teams. stop slating english rugby and stop accusing them of arrogance. on the negative side england will need to do more than just kick for drop goals as sa are a different story.
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I'm a NZer but well done England! No one gave you a chance a few weeks ago and now you're in the final. What's more you showed NZ the way to close down sides. Not very exciting but effective - most Kiwis would have settled for that scoreline against France.
Also shows the central role of the fly-half. Wilkinson has shone out despite some missed kicks whereas Barnes from OZ and Dan Carter (albeit partly due to injury) had off-days when it counted.
Here's another thought. The world rankings currently give SH sides a better ranking than they should - one reason for this is that too often lately the NH sides have come Down Under with weakened sides due to "club commitments". Is there any chance of changing this? Otherwise, the SH sides are not getting enough competitive action with the NH between RWCs.
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On behalf of the LFM I continue to protest about this dreary rubbish. I keep stumbling across these mindless blogs when following up threads which might be about rugby.
On behalf of grumpies everywhere I hope that blogs disappear whence they came.
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It's funny that so many of you "purists" enjoyed the South Africa v Argentina game more last night. Did anyone notice that the Argies completely lost the ability to catch the ball? Two intecept tries and one from a knock-on, classy fellas. Habana is quality, no argument there - but if you fail to appreciate an England performance with barely an error in sight then you cannot consider yourself true fans of the game.
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Any one else see a resemblance between the Greece team that won the football in 2004 and the english team currently winning at the mo? They both may be as boring as hell..but only i thing matters...thats winning. If England wanna win this Cueto must play out side Hipkiss...bye bye super lightweight Tait. As For SA, there not going in reverse, since England they're just playing in third gear...I won 200 on them last night cos I bet they'd have 2 or more intercept tries..people might say they were lucky, others know they're clinical finishers.
I said it when it happened, Joe "the gimp" Worsleys tackle was a World Cup winning tackle on Clerc, hit Steyn and Pietersen in defense and this may just come true. Can someone explain why nobody has noticed how bad Easter is, hes about 2 stone overweight - and gives away penalties like it's fun - lack of a better alternative - LD looks his age...
On another note,I said NZ would never win this world cup cos they'd have to beat France, Oz and SA to do it and I was right...anyone else notice who can still do this though? Thank God NZ are out, Hope for a good game next Saturday (but if its entertaining it probably means England lost).Wilkinson is a legend, Come on SA!!!! And you cant win a world cup bye fluke, whoever steps up to the mark deserves it!
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So what if we play ugly I just wish our footie team would do the same.Who won the last footie world cup?Oh yes that dynamic,stylish team Italy.Who cares about style etc.Its about winning and England are winning.Good on dads army and captian Mainwaring who selected them.Roll on saturday.
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I see a lot of talk about ugly Rugby. As previously stated , it all depends if you have played and understand the game.
As an ex rugby player, the ankle tap by Joe Worsley was every bit as beautiful as a player running the full length of the field to score.
It was a player at full stretch saving a certain 5 points which is every bit as good as scoring 5 points.
Rugby isn't just about scoring tries, it's about technique, team play and players pushing themselves to their physical limts, which is what England did against Australia and France.
WHEN IT MATTERED !
I am not going to knock SA as they are an awesome team as well and are deservedly in the final. It will be a tremendous match, England will have an even bigger point to prove after the 36-0 defeat and SA know it.
I a proud of England and what they have achieved and will be one of the proudest and happiest men on this earth if they win the final on Saturday.
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please can somebody explain to me how france produce some of the finest wines,when there seems to be an abbundance of sour grapes in their country..
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"for rugby's sake hope SA win". lets be honest if the country you support won 3-0 in the direst game imaginable, would you really care? No, you are World champions and nothing else matters. The Kiwi's would probably tear their right arm off for any kind of World Cup win at the moment.
As for the entertaining Boks, was to kick, kick and kick again against England or was i watching a different game? It was only inabaility to handle the SA kicks and our appalling efforts at trying to do the same. It could have been a whole lot different yesterday if Argentina hadn't coughed the ball up so many times. Their forwards definitely had the upper hand early on.
Anyway roll on Saturday, 3-0 to England!!
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Alot of the comments about 'flair' rugby are very interesting. Teams play with 'flair' when the oppo misses tackles or when they have a comfortable cushion of points. The thing is that it is all about winning and flair is risky - Argentina tried to spread the ball wide a couple of time last night and took risks - which resulted in minus 14 points. In test meatch, meaningful rugby, you can't afford these mistakes - and it is exactly that pressure and tension which creates a match worth watching - not tries scored from 80 yards with 4 forward passes....in pressure games all teams play the same - if they don't then why did Aus, NZ, France etc not score 4 tries each and win their games? Spare me the vitriol, the tight, hard graft games with passionate defences and people hitting contact at 90 mph are what rugby is about. Good luck everyone.
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I'm sick of hearing of the fluky England try...
Gomarsall's box kick was of the highest standard, Traille hesitated, Lewsey didn't
Ultimately the difference between the two sides
Let's hope it's a tense final. To re-quote Johnno before the French game, England have to live with SA for 60 minutes, then hope to kill them off.
Time for Robbo to go out in a blaze of glory?
Arise Sir Brian?
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so what if it isnt pretty
we scored more tries than france, would have scored more than oz if they had tried to compete in the scrums, and lets not forget, the only reason SA beat fiji was because they used their scrum to overpower fiji in the last quarter, other wise they were out.
england, masters of pressure rugby, absorbing it and creating it.
and another plus, very much appreciating the words of support from our celtic neighbours, another example of rugby supporters knowing their stuff
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For me the comments about 'ugly rugby' and 'entertaining' comes straight out of "The Sun" guide to Rugby Union...anyone who knows anything about rugby would understand that it's not all about Tries and running around - ask the All Blacks!
A wise man once said about Golf "You can hit the green in one or two shots, but if you cannot putt you will loose"....same with rugby "if you don't have a kicker...you will loose" - ask the Aussies!
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Ugly is the only word, we are rubbish and much better, more entertaining teams are out. Like in the last RWC we have got lucky, we probably bored our opponents into submission with our style of play. If there's any justice SA will beat us again but I'm not so sure, ugly our game may be but it's effective.Why we continue to hero-worship Wilkinson is also a mystery to me, he misses as many as he gets and with some other kicker our win over France would likely have been more comfortable. It's time for more rule changes in rugby to favour teams that try to score tries at the expense of teams playing like England who's game centres around defence and kicking. Fortunately, most other teams don't try to copy our style with the exception of Scotland. They tried it against Argentine and lost the game as a result because they couldn't do it as well as we do. This RWC has seen many memorable games, sadly none so far has involved England. Let's hope that the final will be different but I have my doubts, unless SA thump us like last time.
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It's going to be sooooooooooooo booooooooooooooooooring being world champs again , oh dear drink those sour grapes and munch that humble pie
SA ,that front row is going to get marmalised OS du rant lokked like he wanted to be back on his farm , the 8 was ponderous and the 10 is a club player , that blond lad in the centre is good but he will be sent down a chanel to be boshed ,throw them triple miss passes if you dare
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South Africa only score from other teams mistakes. Habana apart, England are actually the far more creative team and look to attack more than the boks who are great at pressurising, intimidating and long range kicking but nothing else. It will be a tight game. I'm suprised more of the neutrals aren't behind the underdogs on this one - particularly six nations sides.
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I'm French and I watched the game in an Australian pub in China (yes yes!).
I must say that I was angry against the strategic choice to reconduct the same technique that we used with NZ to play England. My opinion is that France has got a serious problem of management since 1999.
Anyway, i'd like to say that, for a Frenchman, i'll be supporting England. Why ? Because, for the first time in my life, I saw british fans comings to me (after the game) and congrats our team, showing respect. You see, it doesn't take much to see that: repect each of the teams, wheter they win or not, and enjoy the spirit of rugby.
Come on England, keep the Cup so that we'll have our revenge in 2011 lol.
See ya all!
A bloddy Frenchman in China
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What impressed me most with the Boks last night was:
- their lineout. Both on their throw and against the Argies. They cleaned up in that department. The stats speak volumes: 18/19 won on their throw, stole 7 off the Argies.
- their turnover at the breakdown. Their backrow were awesome. In fact all their front 8 in the loose.
It was from this hard grafting forward play that their dominance was established. Helped greatly by the catalogue of mistakes by the Argies, which gifted the Boks 3 of their tries. Throw in Habana's exquiste touch and you had a fine performance against a good though perhaps knackered Argentine team.
So, what does it all mean? It means that SA are the team to beat. They play intelligent savvy rugby, and unlike their SH counterparts have never seemed to deny that everything emanates from the front 8, and if 3 points are on offer, take them. And their backs are opportunitistic.............. Is that a criticism???!
They certainly look like world champions, and though as an Englishman, I would love to see England lift the cup, ugly and/or with the rub of the green, it's a very, very big ask. It would be amazing if England could lift themselves for a 3rd game in a row.
Even before the end of the tournament, a chin-chin to the Frenchies for organising the best RWC thus far.
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I didn't even finish reading this blog it was so boring. About as boring as the English play the game. Go the Boks, at least they play the game the way it should be. He who dares wins, England NEVER dare, they play percentage, ugly ugly rugby which is why the game is frowned apon so much in the North. Rugby is loved in the Southern Hemisphere because they know how to play it down there. A classic rugby call from the crowds in New Zealand is 'pass it Don't Kick it'. Sure NZ lost but at least they do it playing the way it should be. Thats why so many fans from all countries love watching them and why the Aussie Rugby Boss was right, everyone truly does hate the English rugby team.
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Taki Blog 97. Why waste so much energy hating another nation's rugby team? Why not get a life instead?
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I think Tali is a bit like an overwrought pop star, starting to believe his own publicity. (Rugby is frowned on in the north")?!! Where on earth does he get that from. Well carry on mate, now we know anyone from the SH is deluded.
Anyway, I have just had a revelation! I can now see the English plan in all its machiavellian glory, (I think that's how you spell it). Lose pathetically to SA in the pool match because we know we will meet them in the final when they will be grossly overconfident. I'm impressed Brian even Sir Clive, that master of planning couldn't have thought that one through.
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Great blogs. Can you really maintain the standard all week ? Here's a challenge: find a decent fish and chips in Paris - other than at the Alcazar which is too expensive for the BBC and is owned by Conran anyway. Good hunting.
PS Does anyone know what Chabal is supposed to have done ?
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england rugby deserves a huge pat on the back by the nation and the rugby world!! we may play a less open style to that of the all blacks etc but a world cup is about winning!! i thnik the france semi was one of the best matches i ever watched. finals and semi-finals are never the best to watch for rugby purist - there's too much at stake! - sometimes it's about the endeavour and the never say die attitude in fighting for your team and country and not just putting on a good show with some fancy rugby!!!! england were never going to play wide expansive running rugby - anyone who expected that clearly doesn't know much about the game!! for a start we don't have the midfield in catt and tait to run the ball so you use the best tatics you've got which is a brutal pack, great set piece and some abrasive runners with jonny and catty pulling the strings for field position. to beat SA england must kick well out of hand and win the battle for territory - SA will give penalties away so its just a case of camping in their half and putting pressure on at the set piece and winning the battle on the floor - moody vs berger is key!!!
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Hmmm, I'm a football (round ball!) player but watched both semis. I have to say that the semi with the higher score wasn't the better spectacle. There was a bit of running, tries mainly following unforced errors and an awful lot of - to use football terminology - HOOF! Haven't seen so much aimless kicking since watching a mate's pub side; and certainly loads more than my women's side!
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Q: What would you call the 7th/8th place play off if there was one?
A: The Bledisloe Cup.
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I'm shocked you all thought the game was ugly! I loved it!! was on the edge of my seat for most of the second half. With the way the match was played, and the teams involved, did everyone expect a clear win? Both teams played with determination I was hoping to see, and up until that final whistle, I still wouldn't have wanted to put money on the outcome. Unlucky for France, but pleased England are through. Can't wait for the final, lets see if the team have learned from last time
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Do England actually know what the try line is for?
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The (happily unlikely) event of England winning the RWC next Saturday would be a complete disaster for the future of the game.
It would mean that rugby will inevitably go down the road of professional soccer; i.e. all teams are too scared of losing to actually go out and play the game with a minimum degree of creativity.
This formula of totally negative rugby has already “earned” England a WC. As a result, the “it’s-only-about-winning” mentality has infected other erstwhile exciting teams. Even France on Saturday forgot to play ball-in-hand attacking rugby until it was too late to save the game, or should I say to save the result. The game, as such, was beyond redemption for the purposes of a sporting spectacle for any save the most myopically jingoistic Ingerland supporters.
For the sake of entertaining rugby:
GO BOKKIES!!!
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Jeffers - are you a rugby fan? Do you only watch rugby during the world cup? There are so many elements to rugby but at the end of the day the reason you play in the World Cup is to win. I really don't understand why people keep carping on about how boring and bad England are. They can only beat the teams that are put in front of them. If throwing the ball around like a basket-ball game is the best way of playing then why are there no teams in the final who play like that? South Africa have always put a premium on solid and tight forward play and then releasing their backs when they have solid field position. If the defending team gives away penalties to stop you scoring should you not kick at goal? Do you really think that at the knock-out stages of the World Cup that teams should fling the ball about with wanton abandon? That's how you get knocked out in tight games.
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I am happy for england and they did really deserve to get to the final by grinding out results and they were brilliant in the scrum, ruck etc but realistically they must up their game if they want to beat sa. to big al who said they would have scored more tries v australia if they had tried to compete in the scrum. england didnt get any try v oz- that's the point. and only one try against france is nothing to shout about. praise england for their hard earned victories, yes- but they must also appreciate the fact that they need to score more tries.
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As a Namibian-born, South Africa-raised British citizen of German descent (phew): Well done England, you are doing a Germany in what has been the best world cup ever. Now for the final - may the best team win. Which will probably be the boks, though I won't risk any money on it.
But it's all so bloody marvellous, eh?
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Graeme (68)
Remember Sid Going's AB's? David Kirk's side? Pinetree et al? They ALL played ugly until the opposition 8 were beaten, and only then did the backs see the ball. I don't recall Kiwis moaning about ugly then - just smug faces. These teams knew how to WIN and it was a pleasure to watch their efficiency even if one was rooting for the opposition. WINNING is something the AB's have forgotten how to do. Against the French who were out on their feet for the last 20 mins of the semi-final, 2 drops would have done it and quite possibly opened up the French for tries in the final ten. All we saw was a brainless and clueless AB team unable to close out a game. If you prefer "Strictly Come Dancing" rugby, go and watch League.
By the way, as your first step from hubris towards humility, I would suggest toning down the hokey-cokey until the AB's win something worthwhile.
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Basically, I think South Africa v England is a dream final.
It gives England the chance to avenge the earlier defeat, and South Africa the chance to finally shut the English up.
One thing is certain, South Africa are not as good as they think they are.
Their tries yesterday were as a result of errors by the Argies, and they did not look that good up front.
I take England to win it by 5-9 points.
World Cup qtr and semis are normally ugly affairs whatever game you play.
I do sense abit of 'bok' tension coming from this Blog !
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Fantastic article but please, PLEASE check your grammar.
It should have read: "For Tommy and me..." not the howlingly incorrect
"For Tommy and I..."
Of course, none of us is perfect, but as a BBC journalist you should know the rules!
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Can I please ask why is it that when England beat France we get told that France played badly and England didn't deserve to win. However, when SA beat Argentina (scoring every try from a Argentina mistake) its beautiful rugby.
As far as I can tell the SA tactics are either give it to Monty to kick it away (very poorly) or give it to Habana to make a straight, predictable (albeit very fast) run.
We are a different team to that of the 14th Sept, we will give them a run for their money this time.
Come on England!!!
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Re. 99
Chabal has been cited because he showed his feminine side. Crying is against the rules, apparently.
Dangerous tackle on Simon Shaw. I did not see it, did you?
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I'm a bit surprised by some of the comments.
If England are dragging the game backwards then it is only because our backs are less than convincing playing an expansive game. If we had backs of the calibre of Carling/Guscott and the Underwoods I'm sure we would only too pleased to dance in the tries.
And if England are so limited and forced into playing ugly, then surely it is up to the opposition to do something about it. If we are so predictable then it must be oh so easy to beat us. If we've only got half a team then think what we would be like with a whole team.
Looking forward to next week's game and us beating the South Africans 70-0 with Matthew Tait running in five tries. Failing that, 3-0 will do fine.
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Both England and South Africa - though most of the latter's fans will certainly deny it, they are so proud - are lucky to have reached the final. But that doesn't matter. I expect a full-on blood-curdling and highly physical game. The stuff about England being boring is just nonsense, especially with regard to the reborn team of the last three weeks.
May the Best Team win...and may the best team be...ENGLAND!!
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Kiwis: FACE THE FACTS -
The New Zealand Rugby Union is on a witch-hunt to smoke out the referee who analysed the World Cup quarter-final for the NZ Herald.
High-performance refereeing manager Keith Lawrence has written to all 25 of his squad saying they should own up immediately or face the consequences of contributing to the "Refereeing the ref" article in Thursday's sports section.
The referee asked not to be identified because he was fearful of censure from the NZRU.
He gave English referee Wayne Barnes a 7/10 mark for the way he controlled the match - won 20-18 by France - identified some missed decisions, and said he would have sent two more All Blacks off.
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"England are actually the far more creative team and look to attack more than the boks who are great at pressurising"
Mr delusional. Like the players.
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St George at #43 wrote
" ... stop bemoaning the ugly game and sing the national anthem with pride. come on england."
Eh, ... so what "national anthem" would that be?
I wasn't aware that England had one.
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"Arise Sir Brian?"
The only knighting will be the goodnights to England
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Hi guys,
Got back to Blighty after the rumble at Le Stade on Saturday night, first chance to check out the blogs.
The atmosphere Saturday was phenomenal, just being part of that was extraordinary... mingling with all and sundry, sharing experiences, consoling the French, and drinking the fizz; it all amounted to nothing short of superb...
Re. the game itself, well, it's about which team scores more than the other, whether it's done 'pretty' or 'ugly' it doesn't matter. I did wonder if England had done enough in the game to 'deserve' being the winners... the answer has to be 'Yes' as they took the opportunities (eventually) that presented themselves...
It seems to me that there are a lot of 'bitter' people out there having a 'go' at England - why? Because their team didn't make it to the final, and for a team that was written-off - even before the tournament started; and especially after the drubbing at the hands of the Boks - they have done incredibly well.
So here's to a nail-biting final, and I wish I could be there... you never know it might just happen...
So Tom and Ben, I didn't manage to find you in the 'village' (I assume it was the one just outside the RER station), so couldn't buy you the beer I promised... but keep up the good work, and enjoy your week in Paris... the atmosphere will start building, rising to a crescendo on Saturday night...
So all the best
Cheers
Paul C
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Isn't there something quite magnificent in watching a Team of "no-hopers" turning themselves into World Beaters through a sheer "never say die" spirit and do it by playing to their strengths? It is that which has enthralled me and I am lost in admiration for their spirit.Its exactly the same spirit and approach which has got the Scotland Football Team to where they are in the Euro Qualifiers - and my admiration for them is also immense.yet strangely)but perhaps unsuprisingly)their win in Paris against an infinitely more talented French Team playing football at a level of about 6 grades higher than the Scots who scored 1 goal from thei only attempt on goal rightly was greeted with cries of admiration.
Yet for displaying exactly the same sot of virtues the England Rugby Team is pilloried.
I have no doubt that to beat S.Africa we shall have to score some tries and it may very well be that in the end the Boks all round armoury will prove too strong for us but if England do win the Cup no sporting triumph will have been more
hardly earned or moe richly deserved as an award to a efusal to lie down and be walked all over.
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I would like to ask how we, the rugby enthusiasts, can get Argentina to play in the 7 nations next year. They deserve recognition for their amazing progress.
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As a neutral Welshman - I didn't know that was possible when talking about England until this world cup! - I couldn't give a monkey's about fast/slow, open/tight, creative/dour rugby, I just want a good match. Grieves me to say it but England's last two games have been the most compelling and rivetting matches I've seen for a long time. They did EXACTLY what they had to do to win. If they do the same thing next saturday - well this Taff will doff my cap to them.
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Ibanez,
If I'm not mistaken, we won 1-0 on try count as well. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good argument!!
Did anyone know that France has beaten England once in the World Cup - 3rd/4th place play-off in South Africa against 2 SFs and a QF now
I'm still grinning....
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All this and y'all fail to note that the Argentinians SCORED against South Africa...I don't seem to recall the English doing so.....still, tomorrow is supposedly another day.....
And we shouldn't forget the third place playoff...the French have a point to prove too.....I reckon that match will be a really interesting encounter....remember too, both matches are 'revenge' matches of sorts....doesn't auger for great classic rugby....but let's see. Loved the journal ye have done too..shows an interesting angle to some English tourists today....bad planning, blaming others (toulouse and the signposts....bad planning guys...do better homework for next time!!) still, a fun read.
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Once again England have gritted out another fine victory.
However I hope the Springboks win the world cup on Saturday.
They have shown more enterprise behind the scrum and do not depend on ferocious defensive tackling in the three quarters with no invention behind the scrum.
England have shown amazing defensive characteristics and once again the boot of Johnny wilkinson have seen them through to the final.
Is this the way forward for Rugby Union in general. I hope not. If all the teams had played the way England have played then what a dour World cup this would have been.
So common on the Springboks and show England the way Rugby should be played.
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I'm honestly disappointed at having to watch SA and ENG again. Eng had their chance, now we the fans have to endure another spanking because somehow England seems to have been resuscitated for the last few games. Sure all of SA's wins haven't been pretty or even convincing but it sure has been exciting matches. I just hope the SA roar will drown out the English snore.
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What is the problem with all these blokes complaining about south africa only scoring off of Argentinian errors? Hell at least they score tries.
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as the SA coach said the previous results have no bearing, especially no the summer tour wich hardly featured a 1st string side! i think that since our 36-0 drumming we have worked on the strategy of a good defence then building on that! which is a great tactic, if you stop your opponents from scoring points it means you can slowly build your lead on penalty's a drop goals, which i think still makes for a thrilling contest, aka England vs France & Australia, which have been thrilling! and i cant help but admire this approach that England have taken!
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I have to laugh at all the non-English and non-SA supporters who sprout on and on about boring play, lack of tries, etc. The simple truth is that every one of you (NZ, Aus, French, et al) would have preferred your sides to have won games by penalties and drop goals alone, if it meant a Rugby World Cup Final appearance.
I, as an Englishman, have immense pride for the way BA and the boys have turned this tournament around, and hope for an exciting game, with or without tries, and ultimately, an England win.
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to all those antipodeans who endlessly go on about 'boring England' and 'Total Rugby', there is a game that would appease your needs... its called RUGBY LEAGUE.
And if thats want you want to play then please get on with it, but don't criticise our use of forward pressure which, the last time i checked, was an integral part of the union code.
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As an Irishman I would like to congratulate the English rugby team on a fantastic display of guts and determination. They thoroughly deserve to be in the final and I feel they could and should go on to win against SA.
However, I am disappointed in some of the comments I have heard and read about the style used to get England to the final. As far as I’m concerned this is just petty jealousy from those posters whose teams have not made it as far.
To the Irish, Welsh, Scottish, Australian and New Zealand supporters falling into this category of whiners, I would like you to see the list below. The teams in upper case were the losers of each game and I dare any fan of one of these teams to respond to my post saying the following sentence: “I would be unhappy if my team had WON this game by a 14-9 scoreline playing the same quality and style of rugby as England did against France”:
IRELAND vs France (Pool)
WALES vs Fiji (Quarter Final)
SCOTLAND vs Argentina (Quarter Final)
AUSTRALIA vs England (Quarter Final)
NEW ZEALAND vs France (Quarter Final)
Any takers? Thought not. Any losing fan would have been DELIGHTED to have won the game in the same fashion and by the same score, rather then swallow an ignominious dumping out of the RWC. Those people simply have to get used to the idea that however unpalatable it is for them to accept, ENGLAND are in the final due to their skills and determination, rather than their team. As one posted suggested earlier, all of England and France was totally and utterly rapt watching the semi-final game (As was this Irishman) and as it was their semi-final, I think they’d be quite right not to give a damn what anyone else thinks.
You will notice that France do not figure in my comment. Well, the truth is – although I’m no great fan of French rugby – I felt the players and fans carried themselves with pride and dignity and showed a great deal of magnanimity towards the English after the game. I’m sure they would have been very happy to have beaten England 14-9, as would the Saffers if that were to be the score next Saturday.
England could be World Champions again in less than a week. If that’s the case, some people will just have to get used to it. Even if England don’t win, personally I think they have more guts, skill and courage than they have been given credit for.
So whiners, whine away. But don’t whine to me because I will just laugh in your face and tell you exactly what you are.
Go England.
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This blog has been a pleasure to read throughout the entire RWC, I take my hat off to you both.
I'm going to be one of many fans, that will be making their way across the channel on Friday to watch what looks to be one of the most exciting sporting events in years, and have every confidence that regardless of the result... it will be one of the most memorable days of my life.
One last step lads.
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Alas the Argentines lost their nerve last night and cracked. SA are a very good well-rounded team but didn't impress that much last night. As others have said almost all their scores were from Argentinean mistakes. At times all the play was from the boys in blue and white. They must be allowed to join the Tri-Nations now.
Habana, however, is awesome, given the space and that's the key - can England contain him?
Who will win? I hope it's England but they are going to need to be on top form to contain the Boks. It doesn't have to be a wide-open running game to be nail-bitingly tense and exciting. Personally I would prefer the Welsh to be there, but given the choice, C'MON ENGLAND!!
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Why all the hate? Just because you all predicted that England would flop and now you are all out and we are still in. I've just spent two years in SA and watched alot of Super 14 and tri-nations rugby, i must say i was shocked, the atmosphere (and the rugby)was better at the Varsity game between Mancheter uni and Manchester Met. I found the game on saturday amazing, if you don't like it, watch League. My the best team win on the weekend, but even if it is not England, i wont be whinging like the suck pig you all seem to imitate.
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I think Benedict Bannister got it spot on. As an England fan I want them to win, but the Boks are a very good side and will be hard to beat. And if they win, good luck to them.
And please all 'neutrals' don't judge England on the basis of the stupid bias and myopia of our media.
Those fans who understand the game are unlikely to moan about ugly rugby. And the only ones that do are trying to create an atmosphere where England change their tactics. This criticism worked once for the Aussies, England tried to play a more expansive game and lost.
If you want pretty rugby go and watch sevens.
This has been a brillant world cup, seems a real shame to let the naysayers try and spoil it.
Oh, great blog boys.
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Graeme (#67), your comments are insulting and pointless. What would you have the England team & fans do? Should the team accept that they're not the most gifted at free-flowing rugby & deliberately lose "for the good of the game"? Or should they play to their strengths and have a go? And should the fans not get behind their team just because some people don't like it? Ridiculous! As for us not being able to see ourselves as others do, we are well aware of your opinions thankyou. We shall carry on being English (what choice do we have really?), and you are free to carry on moaning and wishing your team was in the final. BTW, no more disparaging comments about RL please, it's a totally different game with its own merits.
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in all the talk of boring, boring England, haven't you forgotten Lewseys' excellent try? Gomersall's kick was perfectly judged and certainly full of 'van der Westhuizenesque' opportunism. The Argies were no contest for the Boks, and if you can pass the ball on a silver plate to Robbo on saturday (like the blues did to the Boks backs last night) we'll be laughing.
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England, despite their 'success', based on their supposed status are the most boring team on the planet!
If they win on Saturday, there'll be lots of early risers come Sunday, who drifted off early the night before.....
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England have every right (as every sports person/team has)to play to the best of it's ability and in a manner that maximises its chance of winning. However, they must also ask themselves this question. When every team has adopted their blue print and the sport becomes less exciting to watch and sponsors and TV audiences dwindle - will they accept pay cuts at Bath, Leicester, Wasps etc ?
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So England are in the final. Even for a loyal Englishman this is a suprise.
People may say that the team has got there through boring rugby. Through attrition. So what? As a former member of the front row union you know what you job is - to help the team win. It is an insult to the team and particularly the forwards to call it boring rugby. Playing to your strengths is sensible. Playing in the pack is hard and unforgiving work. Just because Australia and France could not match England up front should not take away from the acheivements of the England squad.
South Africa though are a different matter. It will be tougher against a stronger team such as them. You may see and expanded game because of this.
Either way I hope England go on and win.
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The key to England's success for me has been our abysmal performances over the last 4 years since winning the last world cup. Every other major nation has spent those 4 years slagging us off, and telling us just how poor we really are, partly correctly, but partly through plain jealousy. And the SA result did nothing but vindicate them.
I saw a couple of comments that said England are only in the final because Aus and France didn't play to the best of their ability, and I would wholeheartedly agree. But why is that? A fluke or conincedence? I think not. Its because England didn't let them play well, and that they were so scared of being shown up by an England team that they had spent 4 years belittling and putting down that they couldn't mentally play well.
I don't think even the most die hard England fan could say England are the best team in this world cup, probably not even in the 5 teams if we are honest, but the more you goad a wounded animal, in this case wounded pride, the harder it will fight back.
SA, if you want to win the final, your best bet is to stop moaning about how bad England have been, and start giving them the respect that the World cup champions deserve. Don't give us any more ammunition to embarrass you with!
Personally I hope SA play pretty rugby in the final as they and NZ/Aus seem to find so important, because that way everyone will surely be happy. SA and the other Southern hem teams will have seen the great game of rugby played as it 'should be' and England will have another nice shiny trophy to look at for the next 4 years!
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This coming Saturday .. I am going to Penarth ..very close to Cardiff to see my daughter .. and probably every high street store you could mention.. However i will have to find a pub for the final... DO YOU THINK I'M SAFE ??
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As a fanatical Welshman I just wanted to say good luck to England.
England performing on the world stage is a vindication of the 6 Nations, the Heineken Cup and Northern Hemisphere Rugby as a whole. I want to play the world champions in a meaningful match every year!
People critising the English game plan are so naive. England have had a look at where their strengths lie and made sure they played to them. If other team can't counter that then they don't deserve to win.
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The key point about England in this World Cup is that they do not have a strong team. To have got to the final at all is an amazing backs-against-the-wall effort.
When England win the final (and they will) it will be the greatest achievement in World Rugby history (never to be repeated again). A triumph of the heart.
True champions win even when they are playing badly (something Australia did for many years)... and England are true Champions.
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Who was it said "defence wins World cups"?? All the rubbish comments about winning ugly pale into insignificance if you consider how defensively astute teams now are; you have to take your points whenever and however they are offered, be it from the boot or turnover and interception tries. SA and England reached the final by taking their points when the chance was offered. You can't win the World Cup if your not in the final!!
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During England's progress towards the final I have heard and read so much of how boring our rugby has been (and yes I am English). I've heard so much about how we are 'killing the game' and how the southern hemisphere teams play such 'beautiful' rugby. I would love us to win by playing wonderful, flowing, aesthetically pleasing rugby but I would maintain that our rugby does have a certain beauty. Beauty in that it is functional. Functional in that it has thus far got us to the final. There is no point in playing 'flowing' rugby if it means you don't win. Rugby is not art...it is sport (and yes sport can be beautiful). The point is to win. Wallowing in the poetry of always coming so close and not quite making it (but always being true to the spirit of the game) is always a second choice behind winnning in an ugly fashion.
South Africa in the final will possibly be the hardest test of the whole tournament and whilst not convinced of our imminent victory, if the last 3 or 4 weeks have taught me anything it is that in this game nothing is impossible and that we will just have to wait and see. Go on England.
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Just a quick repost to Jacques Malaprade comments on exciting rugby.....Am I the only person who is totally feed up with the mindless jingoism of the average southern hemisphere rugby fan.
Where do they get off, we've had it from NZ fans for years, when everyone knows they have no bottle. The Australians are well..Australian, whilst the Southern Hemispheres C team - SA, have only ever one the thing at home and that took Nelson Mandela to deliver the team talk!
As an ex forward I can say with much pride, that England do play 'the beautiful' game, could there be a more beautiful sight than seeing the Australian front row being ground into the dirt?
SA will find that they are playing a different team to the one that took to the pitch a few weeks ago, a team that seems to have discovered its aura of invincibility.
Come next Saturday, the question will be asked of the SA front row 'what have you got up front lads' and after the way Argentina pack pushed them about last night, I think the answer will be 'not a lot'
So as a Welshman, I am praying that England stuff SA, in the hope that the big mouthed arrogant gits from the Southern Hemisphere, might just shut up for a couple of years.
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Some fo the comments on the board are typical of the Southern Hemisphere arrogance. I think all England Rugby fans are amazed that we made it to Semis let alone the final.
Yes, we have not played flowing rugby, and yes we may have had a lucky bounce here and there.. but we played the way we thought we would win the game and we did win.
Clearly South Africa are favourites for Saturday but England getting to the final is an outstanding defence of the World Cup.
So bring it on... and if England do manage to win on Sunday - I hope you South African fans will be gracious in defeat - as I hope the English fans are if you boys win - as long as the match is clean and you dont poison us the night before !!!
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As a bitter Irishman it agrieves me to say it but you've got to take your hat off to England pulling a final place off.
I'm sure everyone who has been knocked out to date will take the same line, Yea, but...'
It's not a strong arguement that everyone hates the English and only a reasonable one about not wanting to see a c**p side in the final but hey, ho...
Good luck at the weekend, I do expect you will need it for this one.
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Unbelievable to hear people going on about 'the beutiful game' etc. The main thing about the World Cup is not necessarily how good you are but how you handle the pressure otherwise you might as well not bother having a world cup. There were some serious words after the 36-0 and the boys came out fighting like no other team has ever done. Yes we've had to win ugly at times but what you have seen on that pitch is a lesson in determination and guts the like of which you will never again see. Fair play to most real fans though I think they have taken it on the chin as we would have done. You will always have the bitterness from some, but from most you will hope your own teams learn by it. We will need every ounce of the collective spirit, guts and determination that we have recently shown to have any chance of winning but one thing is on our side, I don't think we will fear losing. The pressure is on the SpringBoks lets see how they handle it.
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Here we go again! Could these blogs please be restricted to people who understand the game of Rugby Union!
Any team in the WORLD would love to be where England are now given the state they were in six weeks ago.
All this nonsense about beautiful Rugby! It is an intense physical sport that has many facets and many ways of winning. If you want beauty - go watch a ballet - (or an OIK-Ball {soccer} match!)
England deserve to be in the final because they played the best tactically for each team at each KO game.
However, SA are much smarter than other opposition - notice how they backed off on mauls and got penalties? No other team worked that out. Habanna looks the real danger man, but the scrum looks able to be dominated OZZ stylie. It will be a fascinating final, with whichever team loses taking it gracefully if they are truly world class.
BTW - another facet in ALL sports is working out how to "play" the ref - England seems to be getting quite good at that!
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I am Irish living in Scotland, so neutrality never comes into it when discussing England. However, England is in the final and the other nations are not.
Yes, the English style is mind-numbingly dull, but it works. This side is similar to the 91 team, except they are nowhere near as good, backs and forwards. However, if they try to play any other way except "up the jumper", they will be thrashed. Yes, it was a lucky try, but the bounce of the ball in rugby is part of the game and it works for and against both teams (Easter would not have lost control of a round ball at the 5 metre scrum)
France should have thrown the ball about on Saturday for more than ten minutes. They were moving the English pack around the field, but then they stopped and decided to attack up front. That was easy for England to defend and win turnovers.
Whether this style will be good enough to win, Saturday will tell. It is the only way to win for England. It is not beautiful, but I would have settled for the same passion from the Ireland team, as Ashton's team has shown.
For those blinkered Englishmen, Sunday's match had much more attacking play from both teams. Yes, the Saffers did score from 4 mistakes, but 3 of them were from deep inside their own half. (lucky tries work both ways) Turnovers are part of the game and add so much excitement. Even in my distant past, the opportunity of attacking from a stolen possession was the greatest part of the game - it still is.
Let us hope we have a great final. It will be nervous for all Englishmen, but let them realise that it is best for the game if it is won with style and let us blinkered non-Englishmen recognise that if the rose is triumphant, it will because that team scores more points than the opposition.
Still, c'mon the Boks!!!
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Regards which Oasis song was played on Saturday night - you're both right. It was Wonderwall first, then a Beatles song (can't remember which), then Don't Look Back In Anger.
Don't know what they played next as I was too busy singing Jerusalem in the lloos!
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Can england become the Mighty Ducks of the rwc and beat the team that trounced them in the early stages in the final? Probably not, although, according to the rest of the world we wouldn't have beaten Tonga, oz or France.
Also, England's style may not be aesthetically pleasing but the last two games have been in the balance right up to the final minute. i much prefered watching a game with suspense and drama, like england-france, than SA mauling of Argentina. it was game over by the 39th minute!
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England are in the final, the game on saturday was played on a knife edge!!
the Game on Sunday was more open only because it was littered with mistakes and defencive frailties. The SA defense is no longer un crossable in Atrgentina took there chances they could of won easily. England will not make the mistakes Argentina did and look like creating chances game on game. Bring them on and Jonny will send the Saffies home tail between there legs the writing is on the wall!!!
Great blogging ben!!!much better than the cricket.
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God these SH gits are really getting on my tits with the constant snipping and whinging about this ugly rugby. Who gives a monkey's (would rather write something else but would like this to be posted) how we win as long as we win.
Anyway real reason for this post, not sure if anyone can help but would love to go to the game on Saturday but don't fancy going on my own and can;t find anyone with spare cash / wife allowance. Me and 3 mates made the trip to Marseille for the Aussie game so that's wiped them out.
If anyone can help or are in the same position and would like to team up to buy tickets, travel to France etc please let me know. Brief info - I am married, 2 kids, straight and big big rugby fan.
Any suggestions people???????
Bring on the Boks, they can go the same way as the Aussies and Frogs.
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And another thing - it is wrong to say that at this rate all teams will end up playing like England. They won't because they can't. Each country has its own strengths, France tried to play like England and they lost - don't expect to see them trying that again, they'll soon be back to their usual style and long may that last. NZ will always play their way, same with Australia. When they have the right set of players & coaches, they'll win, it's simple. We shouldn't try to "socially engineer" the sport, it will find its own way and the cream will always rise to the top. Eventually.
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