Déjà vu for KO'd Kiwis (269)
- 7 Oct 07, 10:48 AM
Christchur-... I mean Cardiff - Well, well. So lightning does strike twice. And sometimes on the same day.
Not many of us thought France could emulate England’s shock result against Australia and beat the mighty Kiwis. (I have to confess I wrote the first take of this intro about lunchtime and it looked very different.)
Even fewer thought Les Bleus could surge from behind and pull off, if not quite a 1999-esque comeback, then a very good second best.
On a remarkable night in the Millennium Stadium, France again showed that it’s not about what colour shirt you wear, or how many fans you have, or even how you’ve been the world’s best side for the last few years and therefore have a right to win the World Cup because you haven’t won one since 1987.
It’s about belief and passion and spirit. Yes, you need muscles and you need flyers, but all teams have those to some extent. It’s the extra, unquantifiable bit that makes all the difference.
"This New Zealand team is much better than in 1999 so it can’t happen again", they said. "France are out of their depth this time around", they said.
The massed ranks of black-shirted Kiwis came to conquer. They took over the bars of Cardiff before the game and cheered on England as if they were New Zealand B, sensing a sleigh ride through to the final once they had dusted up France.
The pockets of vastly outnumbered Frenchmen were shy at first, but, roused by England’s heroics in Marseille, they dared to dream.
The French team gave them hope, at least before kick-off, by observing the Haka from just under the nostrils of the All Blacks.
But with New Zealand 13-3 up at half-time, the tension seemed to slip off the visiting Kiwi shoulders and thoughts turned to another fun weekend in Paris.
It wasn’t the fairytale French renaissance, a la Twickenham in 1999 when they scored 26 points in 13 glorious minutes, but there’s more to Bernard Laporte’s side than swaggering insousiance and a cavalier attitude. The discipline was good, the defence valiant and, slowly but surely, they chipped away a foothold from which to make their push.
France were further inspired by chorus after chorus of the jaunty “Allez Les Bleus” which is at least more tuneful than “All Blacks, cha, cha, cha”.
But the more they fought back, the more it looked like the underdogs were being cruelly taunted - allowed into their master’s den only to have the door snapped shut on their tail halfway through.
With two minutes left and New Zealand pressing again, it was still hard to believe France would hang on.
But the look of France skipper Raphael Ibanez in the news conference afterwards said it all. He was half-grinning, his eyes glinting, like a naughty schoolboy after a successful scrumping mission into the forbidden orchard.
And the much-maligned Laporte might as well have had “I told you so” tattooed on his high forehead.
All Blacks captain Richie McCaw, by contrast, sported a thousand-yard stare, unable to explain clearly what had just happened, while Kiwi coach Graham Henry wore the frown of the orchard owner.
He used the “all credit to the French” line to bat away questions on his future, his controversial rotation policy and the lack of competitive games so far in this tournament.
“Whatever the fans out there are feeling, I can promise you, the guys in the shed are feeling 10,000 times worse,” chipped in assistant coach Steve Hansen.
Plenty of post-mortems will be conducted - in New Zealand, in Cardiff, on the way back to London - but one thing that seems clear is that this Kiwi side didn’t have enough collective experience of toughing out a victory, even when the chips are down.
Where, for example, was the late drop-goal platform? It might not be pretty, but you do what you have to for a win.
The French triumph in 1999 was arguably the most remarkable match in the sport’s history, while the night that followed, certainly in the pubs I ventured to around Twickenham, matched it, with Kiwis, Frenchmen and anyone else present all mixing in together to celebrate rugby.
This day comes close and has saved me from using the original intro, based on a rant about the clowns who sent France to their World Cup death in Wales. First or second in the group, the schedule should never have allowed it. But it doesn’t matter now.
It's a shame to see the back of the Kiwi fans - they're an amiable bunch - but the hosts will be back fighting on home soil next week and the World Cup has caught alight.
Rob Hodgetts is a BBC Sport journalist based in London.
Comments Post your comment
One of the best strategically-planned games I have ever seen. It finally demonstrates that rugby has grown into being brain-and-heart. Talent is important, but not enough. Can you have too much talent? Yes you can: look at the All Blacks. Can you have too much arrogance? Yes you can: look at the All Blacks. The result of the combination is trying to show the World how to play rugby. The result of the patronising stance is loosing in big games.
As a francophilic argie, I am hoping the Pumas to go on to the finals, when we should meet again with our loved foes Les Bleus.
PS: by the way, what's the excuse for not inviting the Pumas to the Tri Nations now?
Complain about this comment
Gotta say, that was the 4th World Cup Match I've seen played in the Millenium Stadium, and was definately the best. I was sat on the edge of my seat in the last few minutes, surrounded by both French and All Black supporters. I joined in with the chanting for 'Les Bleus' and enjoyed the banter with those around me. Ok, i was wearing my England shirt and had a few comments, but I'm an English man living in Cardiff, it's not often I can wear it without getting the odd jibe.
But the highlight, watching the dejected New Zealand fans, heads in hands, sat on the curb sides of Cardiff, crying into their half drunk pints, and really wanting to forget that Saturday ever existed!!
Complain about this comment
Well France beat New Zealand at Twickenham in our 1999 world cup so we finally got to see it happen in Cardiff! ;)
But that's it now, it shouldn't be allowed to happen again.
Complain about this comment
I cant understand why the all blacks could not have wear their all-black kit?
It's their identity and I am sure it DOES effect team morale positively on the field.
Clash of colors...since when did blue shirts and white shorts clash with all black? I am mystified. Gamesmanship on the part of the French maybe(?)
Does anyone have any explanation?
Complain about this comment
Totally agree with you when you said,
"It’s about belief and passion and spirit. Yes, you need muscles and you need flyers, but all teams have those to some extent. It’s the extra, unquantifiable bit that makes all the difference."
This is when we see sport at its transcendent best. The whole is more than the sum of the parts. We all recognise greatness when we see it. And it's not just about Sport, there are key elements that make life life here!
Could this be why we are seeing rugby become more popular around the world. Its code of ethics, its sportsmanship and absolute demand for out and out team work where complaining to the referee gets you nowhere, really foster the unquantifiable.
Complain about this comment
The All Blacks are, without doubt, a great team, but they have seldom been tested and it comes at a cost, obviously being ousted this early in the competition will be seen as a disaster.
I like them because of their history, fans and greatness of the players. I have no sympathy, absoultely none, for Graham Henry. I lost all respect for him after the 2001 Lions tour in Austarlia, where he took us from the jaws of victory, as close as half time in the second test, to a series defeat, by totally changing the tactics of the team. In a way, this is pay back to him for his smugness and his complacency. I'm sad to see the back of the AB's but not him, in fact good riddance. It looks like, if history repeats itself, like he'll be at the job centre again soon. Lets hope he stays away from the Northern Hemisphere!
Complain about this comment
I think the sight of Sebastian Chabal watching the haka right in front of the Kiwis, his veins about to burst as he inhaled and exhaled like a raging bull, was absolutely awesome!! It showed the french were up for it! seriously though that guy is a beast! (meant in the nicest way!)
Complain about this comment
They choked. In the final twenty minutes there was absolutely no leadership from any of the New Zealand players, and they lacked big game focus and a killer edge.
There is a world of difference between the basketball of the tri nations and a world cup. Intensity, pressure and precision are essential - New Zealand had eleven chances in the last ten minutes where a drop goal would have won them the match. Oh well, theres always 2011.
Complain about this comment
Wonderful, a great advertisement for an honest game in an era of theatricality in the other. Any chance you'll read this post, M'sieu Platini??
Complain about this comment
Am I the only person who thinks NZ got what they deserved for Robinson's assault on Betsen? No media I've seen/read mentions it, but Robinson clearly struck Betsen with the palm of his heel as Betsen tried to rise.
Dirty and dangerous.
Complain about this comment
Nothing I've read this morning mentions it, but Betsen was clearly and deliberately taken out by Robinson's strike with the heel of his hand. A cheap and nasty shot and I hope the citing commitee noticed it.
Complain about this comment
There is no doubt whatsoever that the All Blacks had the best squad of well prepared players with an impressive winning streak running back for some time.So,what happened?
Very simple answer.Confidence is one thing but arrogance is another thing altogether.
It was best displayed in one incident with the All Blacks 13 nil up and looking comfortable on their own 25 yard line, when Carter tries a chip to his wing almost gifting a try to the French.It was done from the point of view that it did not really matter as we can rank it up any time we like.
Well they got what arrogance deserves.Humiliation.
Complain about this comment
Andrew - are you serious? The colour of their kit stopped them from winning? And yes, black shirts could well clash with dark blue. And as France had the choice, it was up to them - no gamesmanship in this - just making their choice. Just a straightforward dusting up by the French of the supremely "God given" All Blacks that we're all meant to bow down to. Well, guess what, they ain't so great and were shown wanting (as always) when it came to the crunch. If I recall, officially the worst All Black performance at the world cup!
Complain about this comment
Personally, as a French supporter I feel the All Blacks were robbed by poor referee decisions. The winning try was clearly offside and it has tarnished for me what should be a sweet moment. The French should not hold their heads high, yet savour what was a lucky win.
Complain about this comment
Actually, Betsen was felled by a knee-blow to the side of the head by a french player, and not by any cheap shots by an All Black.
Besides that, it was a good tactical game and NZ played the price of playing against less talented teams in the earlier stages. When they came up against a more matched opponent, they just did not have the killer instinct to take advantage of the chances they had. I hope the same is not true of SA (I'm South African).
Complain about this comment
vom: no, I think you are wrong and Betsen wasn't deliberately taken out. I was watching the match in France on French TV. If that were true, I think the commentators might have had something to say about it!
Complain about this comment
Regarding the shirts: the normal french strip is blue shirts and blue (not white) shorts.
As an all blue strip is too similar to all black, there was a coin toss for the right to wear first choice colours, which the French won.
Then somebody decided the NZ second strip was also too similar and asked the French to play in white!
The French (quite rightly in my opinion) refused, but as a compromise played in white shorts.
Really somebody running the tournament should have told NZ before the tournament that their proposed second strip was too similar to their first and made them change it. Watching NZ-Scotland game was hard.
Complain about this comment
Monsieur Le Bleu, (No. 13) maybe the pass was forward from Michelak for the try but in the past NZ have had their fair share of favourable ref decisions. I find your derogatory comments towards your team a touch pretentious. France deserved their victory regardless. The foul on Betsen warranted a red card and thus a 14 man AB's for most of the game. The French defence against a 36-phase ruck was simply brilliant. The fact that they turned it over at the end was a true measure of their skill. I'll be shouting for England next week but I would not be disappointed at all if France lifted the trophy.
Complain about this comment
I was at the game. the french broke the kiwi's spirit. the atmosphere was frankly amazing. those french fans are crazy.
Complain about this comment
The AB's usually play in black vs France. This is the first time they have not.
The French jersey and shorts I remember from 1987 (Cup final) the 1994 tour and the 1999 game involved a lighter navy blue jersey and white shorts.
Yes the AB's alternative strip "the grey teeshirt" should not have been accepted. Our traditional alternate strip was a white shirt and black shorts (better would be black and white hoops).
Complain about this comment
"As a francophilic argie, I am hoping the Pumas to go on to the finals, when we should meet again with our loved foes Les Bleus."
:-)
Ok. We accept the challenge, amigo mio. Con mucho gusto !
Saludos de s-o de Francia
Complain about this comment
I'm sorry, Andrew are you serious... The colour of the all blacks shirt is the reason for the loss!!.
As an Englishman, i did find it strange cheering for the French.. hopefuly not again.. Bring it on Le Bleu
Complain about this comment
Did anyone see the "FORWARD PASS" on the game winning try France scored?So blatently obvious to any rugby fan- i cannot believe none of the officials saw that.
Complain about this comment
"As a francophilic argie, I am hoping the Pumas to go on to the finals, when we should meet again with our loved foes Les Bleus."
:-)
Ok. We accept the challenge, amigo mio. Con mucho gusto !
Saludos de s-o de Francia
Complain about this comment
As for what people see and what others do not. Or people want to believe or don't want to believe. It was either a foul by Robinson on Betsen which people saw, or it was something else. Which leads one to ask, why do some see that in what happened if it did not, or why do they say they believe it happened if they did not actually see it themselves.
Complain about this comment
Betsen certainly taken out with a cheap shot. How many penalties will Mccaw need to concede in a game before the ref shows him a card. Carter the worlds best 10??? NO. McCallister should surely have started at 10 as Carter didnt look fit. Shame really the world cup needs a strong Southern Hemisphere. Oh and Wales.
Complain about this comment
Fantastic game... First half I was sure that the ABs were just going to walk away with it. They never pressed their advantage which I think it did show arrogance. They should have killed the game. They did not. The french were immense in the second half. They did not foul throughout their dogged defense. They ran at the ABs... right in their faces. Tempered aggression and a fantastic display. Yes the try involved one (maybe two!?) forward passes but I was dancing and screaming like a madman. Fantastic. It makes the tri-nations treatment of the pumas all the more absurd.
Complain about this comment
I agree that Betsen was knocked out accidently by his own player and that the winning try should not have been allowed for a forward pass. Also, the actual difference was the fact the All Blacks did not score their conversion after their last try - When the conversion was taken a French player clearly ran to close down the conversion attempt / put the kicker off before the kicker began to run. Should this have been re-taken? A second reason why France should not have won.
But overall, excessive team rotation previously in the tournament, bad refereeing (interesting that - an Englishman refereeing a game that decides which team plays his own country) and the usual choking paid for New Zealand.
Surely the All Blacks can no longer be considered favourites for a tournament again?!
Complain about this comment
The colour of the shirt matters not if you are the favourite for the rugby world cup - and is a pretty tame excuse for losing against a determined French side. Well done Les Bleus!!
Complain about this comment
New Zealand never replaced umanga, and never managed to settle on a starting 15 ever since the lions series!
Also can anyone tell me why when New Zealand were camped in France's 22 towards the end no one stepped back and dropped a goal!?
Complain about this comment
Rob Hodgetts must have been at a different game. We saw loads more French supporters in Cardiff than Kiwis - whether those who travelled from France or non French people like me who supported them on the night.
Complain about this comment
Couldn't happen to nicer guys!
And they come prepared with every excuse from forward passes, to bad ref calls, to wrong AB jerseys. How about this: We didn't get over the line when it mattered, the other team was........good?
Au revoir. One plane for the players, one for the excuses. At least they upheld their RWC tradition.
Allez les Bleus!
Swing Low, baby!
Complain about this comment
The colour of the shirt matters not if you are the favourite for the rugby world cup - and is a pretty tame excuse for losing against a determined French side. Well done Les Bleus!!
Complain about this comment
Here's my master plan for the AB's to lift the trophy in 2011:
1) win every game for the next 4 years.
2) do a haka in front of each of the other teams as they get of the plane.
3) perform an exhibition match against Japan, running in 13 superbly entertaining tries.
4) award yourselves the trophy on aesthetic grounds.
5) leave the other teams to fight it out for second place.
The advantage of my plan is it avoids all the untidiness of a conventional worldcup: injuries, dodgy refereeing decisions and sudden inexplicable losses of form. (See England's 2003 campaign for examples).
Complain about this comment
The All Blacks are fast becoming more of a marketing brand than a rugby nation. The regular choking is pathetic for the self confessed greatest rugby nation on earth. Also interesting to see that after two years of witterings about "the ABs have two first choice teams" they still couldn't find a centre partnership that worked! Who carries the can for that?
Maybe if they spent less time working on their haka (step forward Ali Williams and Byron Kelleher), they'd have more energy to focus on building a winning mentality.
The days of the northern hemisphere having to bow down to the southern hemisphere were ended by England in 2003 and, Woodward's appallingly mismanaged Lions tour aside, have continued now. Let's hope the Argies join the Six Nations - leave the Tri Nations to stew in their own self love!!
Come on Scotland!!
Complain about this comment
If a team and a nation complains that they lost because of the colour of their strip they should be ASHAMED of themselves.
So should all teams bow down to the 'All Blacks' demands to wear their first strip if the strips clash. In terms of fairness and competition they shouldn't even be allowed to perform the Haka.
I think many a Kiwi will be embarassed of the way some of their fellow countrymen have reacted to losing.
In essence, France were the better side just like NZ were beaten by better sides in '91, '95, '99 and '03.
Complain about this comment
Do the BBC pay Zinzan Brooke for his rugby columns? I hope not. His analysis is so thin you could floss your teeth with it. And that's ignoring the rather tiresome anti English bias. Somebody tear up his contract. David
Complain about this comment
Why has nobody mentioned that the second French try had an obvious forward pass in it (to Michalak)? The reply showed clearly that he was at least level when ball left hand and several meters in front when he caught it. Brave French fightback but in the end the All Blacks were robbed by a poor refereeing decision...
Complain about this comment
"(interesting that - an Englishman refereeing a game that decides which team plays his own country)"
Wayne Barnes has been pretty evenhanded, unlike Chris White in the opening game and the usual ineptitude of Kaplan. I'm not English, either.
I would also like to point out that the fourth official who had to determine whether or not to award Georgia a try which would have taken them into the lead against the Irish in the last minute of the game - and, if so, almost guarantee that France and Argentina would go through before either had had to play Ireland - was Argentinean. He was professional enough to make the call as he saw it.
Casting asperations on the professionalism of referees when it comes to national interests really only comes into it when your team loses, though. It also has the effect of making the questioner look like a sore loser. Such is sport.
Complain about this comment
The All Blacks should have gone for the drop goal ! Why they kept bashing and bashing away for the last 20 is a mystery ! 3 Points and we would have won ! But then we attempt a 50 metre drop ....WAY TOO LATE ! The French try is a disgrace to the refereeing standards ! I am appalled by their gross negligence !
We are now set for a very BORING remaining WORLD CUP !
Complain about this comment
The All Blacks should have gone for the drop goal ! Why they kept bashing and bashing away for the last 20 is a mystery ! 3 Points and we would have won ! But then we attempt a 50 metre drop ....WAY TOO LATE ! The French try is a disgrace to the refereeing standards ! I am appalled by their gross negligence !
We are now set for a very BORING remaining WORLD CUP !
Complain about this comment
Wow, as a Kiwi I didn't realise how much people thought the All Blacks were a bunch of arrogant players - especially the attitude that they want to 'teach the world Rugby'. I think maybe people over here don't realise how we see the game.
It's like Football in Brazil, it's not about winning, it's about winning with style. And the reason we've been the innovaters of attacking rugby is because we love to play expansively and with passion, and have fun. That's why 20,000 out of NZ's 4 million made the trip over - how's that compare to the Barmy Army or French fans?
But the French out passioned the AB's, and that is always great to see. A harsh reminder of that final ingrediant we forgot. They wanted to win and we just wanted to not lose, because that means facing all of New Zealand - not just rugby fans - the whole country. They've been chooking on that preassure since 1999. Think this sounds overdramatic? checkout stuff.co.nz - and read the New Zealand media response, 'Our Darkest Hour Ever!', 'Our Gods fall to earth', 'All Blacks plead for Mercy'.
So go easy on any kiwis you see. Rugby fan or not, we are in mourning.
Complain about this comment
Lary, did anyone see the "FORWARD PASS" before the NZ try...Like Lee said, Well done Les Bleus!!! England vs France will be a great match! So good, the northern hemisphere is not dead!
Complain about this comment
Yes, there was contact with Betsen as he rose after being felled initially.
One forward (or flat)pass does not a loss make. NZ have always been the master of the flat (or forward!) pass, so now may not be the correct time to point fingers.
Graham Henry does not seem to care either because "at 61 he is comfortable" (BBC quote), surely this is the worst manner in which to accept that his stewardship of what should have been a cup winning squad was shown ultimately to be all mouth and no trousers" (much like the Aus challenge to England yesterday.)
Fantastic tournament may it last forever!
Complain about this comment
Awesome match - it was fantastic seeing two upsets in one day! The French really took the game to the Kiwis, refusing to be outmuscled by a team that's not only massively talented but also hugely physical.
I was convinced that NZ would grab the trophy this year (possibly in a final against Argentina), but I secretly wanted the French to stick it to them! By the end of the game I was even more on edge than during England's match.
France went for it from the off, and forced NZ to try to find top gear. On the day, the Kiwis couldn't find it - and with a below-par Dan Carter (who obviously hadn't properly recovered from injury) having to go off, they lost the kicking machine and cool head that might have given them that drop goal option.
I would like to defend the Kiwis against the claims of arrogance on their part - to my mind, they've always been confident. I don't think they went into this game complacent - it was the Aussies who were guilty of that in the run-up to their match against England. You could tell just by the occasional cut to the Kiwi bench that it wasn't arrogance that fired the team... the intensity on their faces as France began get more points on the board said everything, but it just didn't happen for them.
The French are going to be a tough ask for us next weekend. I was delighted with the way England fronted up the the Aussies - especially with that speed to the breakdown that has been shockingly absent in the past three years. But I can't get too hopeful off the back of just one decent performance, and we still lack that cutting edge from some of the backs (if only we had two Jason Robinsons!).
Ooh, and whoever said 'We need a strong Southern hemisphere' - funny how things change, eh? Wasn't everyone worrying about the strength of the Northern hemisphere sides just a week ago?
Complain about this comment
The ABs should have been 14 after 5 minutes. When watching the game live, the corner of my eye caught Betsen lying on the floor and being wacked by AB #4. My immediate reaction was "what the hell?" but then play continued for a few seconds. None of the replays shown afterwards (at least on TV5 Monde) showed the incident as they stopped to the tackle sequence. Except the very last replay where you see the AB fist close to Betsen's head. But you need to look for a few seconds past the tackling phase to see that. Defenite red card so please ABs fan stop crying about a bl--dy forward pass.
Complain about this comment
In response to Melvin(Comment 28), you are allowed to charge a conversion kick down, but not a penalty kick! maybe you're getting confused between the two?
The main reason New Zealand lost was that the referee allowed France to ruck the ball in accordance with the laws of the game. For years now Richie McCaw has been on the wrong side of an opposition ruck, and has been free to wreak havoc with the protection of over-protective and over-indulgent referees who refuse to believe McCaw is capable of foul play! Yesterday when lying on the wrong side McCaw was effiently rucked out of the way and after 3 or 4 occassions when sets of studs were deployed to dissuade him, he was then to be found on the right side of the ruck, and guess what???? all of a sudden the turnover ball that NZ use to devastatting effect was no where to be seen. Put simply when NZ's plan A didn't supply any ball, they didn't have a plan B and were reduced to employing the pick and drive which tne kiwi press, in particular, have been castigating england for over the past 4 years, and let us pause for a second to enjoy the delicious irony of that statement!!!!!
Complain about this comment
When push came to shove. When the pressure was on for the All Blacks in the dying minutes, they showed how they were not able to deal with the high intensity situation. Foot by foot they advanced, until commiting a simple knock-on and other such simple mistakes. This plus the fact that we caught the huge lock, Chris Jack, playing fullback on the opposite side of the pitch. Thus demonstrating that when push came to shove, the All Blacks were not all the team they were cracked-up to be.
Complain about this comment
I am surprised by the SH guys claiming there were forward passes. Their interpretation of a forward pass allows the ball to travel forward providing the ball carrier passed the ball in a sidewards or backwards direction i e the body shape of the player determines whether or not it was a forward pass. The officilas thought the body shape was ok.
Complain about this comment
However, the All Blacks did not play to their full potential although they did display some brilliant rugby at times. Well dome France, they played really well in the 2nd half with a cast iron defence and some good running, but even they must admit that they were helped tremendously by a really poor referee who seemed to be very one-sided (in favour of France) in his decisions.
England must be very relieved as they would have been totally destroyed by New Zealand, but are capable of beating France.
Complain about this comment
The time has come for us to look at the "League" rule of 5 attempts at a driving and "ball-holding" kind of play.I can picture the time when a heavy powerful well-trained eight will take possesion anywhere on the field and carry the ball,even the length of the field,to score!!!
How would W`m Webb Ellis ,in Menton,re-act to that? No wonder he chose la patrie des Bleus for his resting place!
Complain about this comment
Betsen was caught in the head by his own players knee as he got up having been floored by an All Black (a double hit!) ouch!
NZ were clearly the better team and anyone who understands rugby will understand that - 176 tackles for French to 39 for NZ? 100% line out wins for NZ plus about 1/3 of the French ball, a disintegrating French scrum, NZ retaining possession at will.
Thankfully, however, the better team does not always win. Good luck to the French I hope they go all the way.
I just hope we don't have more upsets and an England v Argentina final - 12 passes for the entire match (6 of which are knocked on) and 850 kicks with England winning 12-9. Three Johnny pings and a droppie! What an advertisment for Rugby that would be.
Complain about this comment
Hey Guys, I think we need a new Post were we could comment about our old remarks on the ‘supremacy’ of the Southern hemisphere, how things changed since then…
Complain about this comment
Sorry, but was this result fixed to rejuvenate European rugby in the face of the dominant trio from the Southern Hemisphere?
Complain about this comment
Ah well....the old adage rings true. You can't beat the southern hemisphere teams, you can only score more points than them!
Complain about this comment
finally two northern hemisphere sides, in france and england have learnt to attack the breakdown in the same manner as the SH teams, pile in with no intension of staying on your feet.george smith was completely nullified by mad dog lewis moody.
australian whingers and NZ whiners can now go home.
Complain about this comment
Sorry, but was this result fixed to rejuvenate European rugby in the face of the dominant trio from the Southern Hemisphere?
Complain about this comment
The winning try came from a forward pass, that makes it even better. NZ have been getting away with forward passes for years.
Anyway back to the match; not a surprise, when it came to guts and heart, the Small Blacks were wanting, AGAIN!! As good as they are, they just don't understand how to win ugly. They had numerous opportunities for drop goals, didn't take them. Ah well, there's always 4 years time.
As for the kits, the IRB are going to have to get their act in order. Follow the example of the Football World Cup; 1 team in a dark kit, the other in a white/light kit, not all countries will have colour TV. France always used to play in blue shirts, white shorts and red socks, what happened? And NZ away kiy should be All White, not grey and black. Please,IRB no more colour clashes.
Complain about this comment
I feel that it is good for rugby that the All Blacks lost last night. It was a good gmae to watch, however, the All Blacks did not play to their full potential although they did display some brilliant rugby at times. Well done France, who played really well in the 2nd half with a cast iron defence and some good running, but even they must admit that they were helped tremendously by a really poor referee who seemed to be very one-sided (in favour of France) in his decisions.
England must be very relieved as they would have been totally destroyed by New Zealand, but are capable of beating France.
Complain about this comment
Absolutley delighted to see the arrogant New Zealanders and Australians dumped out of the world cup beofre the semis. Hopefully they can share the same plane back down under and reduce their costs's. Southern hemisphere, you were pathetic.
Complain about this comment
Rugby is the loser when poor decision making by the referee determines the outcome.
Complain about this comment
That's it folks! Done it again! I am French and love rugby. I just couldn't go to sleep last night. The game was awesome, I was moving around like a maniac in the house during the game, scaring my wife in the process. The feeling is great. Post-match analysis come and talk about a forward pass (just about but hey, look at the Kiwis nasty tactics throughout), the French who would have won only because Kiwis missed their conversion...Lots of ifs, just the one result. The mediatic fever, the French challenge to the Hakka, the strategy applied on both sides, the skills display: I say France wan, it could habe been the over way. How come the players are fairplay but the bloggers are acidic in defeat? Enjoy the game, that's why we spend several hundred pounds on tickets or postpone visits to hospitalised gransparents.
Complain about this comment
As a New Zealander, I am numb. Surely one should not blame the (english) ref but McAlisters sending off was a joke, and that turned the game. The french got away with hands in the ruck, offsides, and THAT pass, yet was all over the All Blacks, in particular McCaw. Seeing the British media fail to ackwoledge the refs shocking game, even consider McAlisters penalty as 'blatant' shows the incompetence of your media, as well as your refs. His performance ranks up there with Darrell Hair in the Pakistan test, and the ref in the England Portugal game in the football world cup. Refs should be accountable, hopefully we don't see any more Wayne Barnes, especially involving NZ. Didn't the ref in the Chelsea v Liverpool match admit after the game he got a penalty wrong? Would appreciate seeing the same honesty here, We were robbed. In 1999 we were beaten by a more passionate team, 2003 by a better team, but this time we didnt stand a chance. Surprised we kept it this close. But at the end of the day, its only a game.
I cannot understand why so many English fans are taking such a spiteful pleasure in the All Blacks unfortunate exit from the Cup. The All Blacks have dominated the sport for the majority of the last century, and have given the game the global popularity it deserves. After 2003 and Englands victory, many feared the game would die, because that style is so boring to watch. In the commercial age entertainment value is what will determine the success of the sport. In order to make the game more exciting refs need to focus more on offsides and hands in rucks, to assist the attacking side. South Africas rush defense would have to finally be scrutinised (sorry Habana) and the attacking side would then have more space. Penalties should be 2 and drop goals worth 1. In fact i hate to say it, but Union could learn a few things from League.
Go the French!!!
Complain about this comment
got say the all blacks were DONE big time the french got away with alot but THAT forward pass was a disgrace it was so clear for all to see clearly teams can only beat them when they get an unfair decision against them i will say that the french stuck in there and good luck to them i hope they beat the english
Complain about this comment
Quite whining about the ref. Refs make judement decissions and that's life. Every school boy is told to play to the ref. You see what he allows and you try what you can. The Southern Hemisphere have ruled in that ares for a long time and committed just as many infringements that were not picked up. But when you win you worry less about the ref.
You make your own luck. If you rely on the ref you will lose. And guess what?
Complain about this comment
Au revior to the arrogant All Blacks. The tears come out only at the end, and only at their loss. At anyone else's loss I don't think there would be an ounce of empathy. So perhaps the better team lost, but they had their opportunities and either could not, or would not, take them. They must have been saving the last minute drop goal for the semi-final.
Full credit to France. They went out and played terrific defence. And enough with the ball to take care of business. The best 10 on the pitch was good old Freddie (I never said that before becasue he beat my teams before).
Allez les Bleus.
Swing Low, baby.
Best RWC yet.
Complain about this comment
Forget about that haka nonsense,opposing teams fall over laughing after watching those antics,just play the game!
Complain about this comment
Hello everyone from Italy.
I think Audioq (NR 52) got it right: New Zealand played the better rugby; France played the better game. With more determination and a bit of luck they won, so very good on them.
Good for rugby too? I am not so sure of this for three reasons:
1) Already, shrewd but modest XV De France grabbed the last 6N from beautiful but idealistic Ireland, if it gets the RWC in same way it will not be a great advert to Our Loved Game;
2) Not recognising this, french fans can be very bad winners not to mention their eponymous reputation as bad loosers. What a pity that here Mr X (NR 60) needed to remind us this sad lack of sportmanship;
3) The excited French media and politicians are marketing rugby to its last bits with, for example, giant posters and tv stress for Chabal, a very ordinary flanker with a funny haircut.
Where does all this leaves us?
Let me tell you, I see the Italian soccer attitude coming and that is ugly.
The All Blacks have spent decades building their egregious reputation, with very fine play and attitude. Let us hope that the french will try to do the same for their coveted first RWC at home.
Complain about this comment
Arrogance lost the All Blacks the game today.....come on cross field kicks and chip overs in their own 22...!!!!!!!
Complain about this comment
I think people confuse confidence with arrogance. NZ have never appeared arrogant to me, their fans maybe but the ABs have always seemed quiet achievers. The Aussies (of which I am one) are regularly arrogant and at the moment with little to back it up.
I enjoyed both games. There was no cheating and I thought the Refs did a pretty decent job and let the games flow. The best teams on the day won, no doubt driven by the desire to beat the favourites. I am glad the era of one team dominating globally is ending, it is boring. I've stopped going to the cricket here because test matches wrapped up inside three days is not sporting entertainment.
Well done to both England and France but a bet on the Argentine to win the WC could be worth a go.
Cheers
Birdie
Complain about this comment
As an Irishman living in Canterbury,Nz. I can offer an interesting view on yesterdays quarter final. Yes, the nation is in shock. It is very much a case of deja vu. The head of Henry is already prepared and questions on forward passes, hands in the ruck,unfair sin binning are the main topics of conversation across the land this morning.
The ref did not have a good game but for all that happend in the game the All Blacks still had plenty of time to come back when France took the lead with over 10 minutes left in the game. The movement which resulted in over 25 phases of play did not result in a score and while the French defended well( if marginally offside at times) the fact is the All Blacks never tried to set up for a drop goal in that period.Most northern hemisphere sides would have taken the 3 points. The French turned over the ball and when the All blacks regained possession they were at the half way line, the attemped drop goal was just too far out for McAlister.
In my opinion, this shows very poor decision making at a very critical stage. Were the All Blacks arrogant enough to think that they were going to score a try when a drop goal would have been enough?
I do think that the All Blacks have played some of the best rugby in the world over the last four years. The squad boasts some of the best players the game has seen but they lack a leader in the mould of John Eales and (though it pains me to say it as an Irishman) Martin Johnson. McCaw is one of the worlds best players on his day but I feel the burden of captaincy does not rest well on his shoulders. In those last ten minutes the All blacks needed someone with a very cool head to call the shots. Well you know what they are saying here, bring back Todd Blackadder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Complain about this comment
Well, maybe the French pass was forward, but the line referee denied France two obvious offsides.
Besides the NZ forgot that France won a trench war in the past...and lost against Blitkrieg ; so it was a mistake just to occupy French side waiting for a penalty to happen as the french were extremely cautious during the second half. Laporte strategy and changes was much more brilliant than his opponent's : Chabal entry galvanizing the public and the team, and clever Michalak having had time to observe AB play and coming in obviously with an idea about a hole in the defense, which he exploited very shortly after his entry.
The French were also more opportunistc, perturbing the AB conversion : the 2 points proved precious at the end. Alltogether not the best team in the world but the one deserving to win.
Complain about this comment
No one's said anything abt the forward pass that won it 4 the french.or the pass in the sa fiji game that almost resulted in try but was stopped by a great tackle by jp.the refereeing sucks
Complain about this comment
Disappointed to see so much inane comment about the shirts - if you are into fashion go visit another blog and not waste readers time here please.
ABs are the greatest rugby nation on earth - Ok they lost last night - even the greatest teams in the world lose occasionally - criticism of Graham Henry is unjustified - just look at his amazing winning record in charge of the ABs - all us northern hemisphere fans are now slagging the southern hemisphere teams off even though they are miles ahead of us in this game - the freak results yesterday do not change that fact - this RWC has shown us that the 6 Ns sides have been caught up by the minnows, past by the argies and are trailing badly behind the trinations. The fact that two 6 nations teams have made it through to the semis will stall a much needed revamp of northern hemisphere rugby- finally I was disappointed to see two of the most exciting rugby playing nations in the world play that type of rugby where was the champagne? - Like the wales fiji game
Complain about this comment
Totally agree with you when you said,
"It’s about belief and passion and spirit. Yes, you need muscles and you need flyers, but all teams have those to some extent. It’s the extra, unquantifiable bit that makes all the difference."
This is when we see sport at its transcendent best. The whole is more than the sum of the parts. We all recognise greatness when we see it. And it's not just about Sport, there are key elements that make life life here!
Could this be why we are seeing rugby become more popular around the world. Its code of ethics, its sportsmanship and absolute demand for out and out team work where complaining to the referee gets you nowhere, really foster the unquantifiable.
Complain about this comment
A french pass forward?? Did anyone see the Tri-nations, Did anyone see the England v Austrailia match...
Australia, New Zealand and South Africa are the best at getting away with forward passes and Im finally glad that it has gone the northern hemisphere way for once. Congratulations to France and I look forward to the England game against you!.
Complain about this comment
Well, maybe the French pass was forward, but the line referee denied France two obvious offsides.
Besides the NZ forgot that France won a trench war in the past...and lost against Blitkrieg ; so it was a mistake just to occupy French side waiting for a penalty to happen as the french were extremely cautious during the second half. Laporte strategy and changes was much more brilliant than his opponent's : Chabal entry galvanizing the public and the team, and clever Michalak having had time to observe AB play and coming in obviously with an idea about a hole in the defense, which he exploited very shortly after his entry.
The French were also more opportunistc, perturbing the AB conversion : the 2 points proved precious at the end. Alltogether not the best team in the world but the one deserving to win.
Complain about this comment
I for one would have bet money on this kind of result. When a technically strong team that desparately needs to wins meets a near perfect team that has been lulled into beliveing they are unbeatable anything could happen. And it did. And, I believe, it is good for rugby.
What is not good for Rugby is the haka. First because it is juvenile (worthy of a bunch of fraternity boys) and boring (once would have been enough, making a habit out of a joke kind of wears out the punch line doesn't it?) Second because if and when you loose it makes you look twice as stupid.
They may now go ahead and blame it on the English referee. Cry on. May be the Kiwis have been hanging at the same "taberne" with the Argie football fans...This aint Football.
Complain about this comment
Well, maybe the French pass was forward, but the line referee denied France two obvious offsides.
Besides the NZ forgot that France won a trench war in the past...and lost against Blitkrieg ; so it was a mistake just to occupy French side waiting for a penalty to happen as the french were extremely cautious during the second half. Laporte strategy and changes was much more brilliant than his opponent's : Chabal entry galvanizing the public and the team, and clever Michalak having had time to observe AB play and coming in obviously with an idea about a hole in the defense, which he exploited very shortly after his entry.
The French were also more opportunistc, perturbing the AB conversion : the 2 points proved precious at the end. Alltogether not the best team in the world but the one deserving to win.
Complain about this comment
To paul of Comment 61: You argue that the ABs have "given the game the popularity it deserves". What a load of cobblers! The game has grown over the last 20 years without New Zealand winning the World Cup. All they have contributed is a preciousness about the colour of their shirts and a strange morris dance at the start of each match. Since England won in 2003, far from "dying", it has received a massive boost in interest worldwide. "In the commercial age" (as you say), it is to Europe that most players are gravitating. Where are most of the senior ABs and Aussies going to earn their pensions after this tournament? How many foreign players are heading to the centre of the rugby universe (NZ) "in this commercial age"? Rugby might be the only thing Kiwis are good at but they have to realize that NZ is not the only thing that matters in rugby.
Complain about this comment
Hahahaha lovely to hear all you SH people bleating on about a forward pass. Have you ever seen super12/14 its often a bit like american football with the ball so obviously passed forward time and time again. I am sure your All Black brand will survive but for now watch and learn !
Complain about this comment
no 61... please explain what was wrong with the yellow card?
he blocked a player coming through, blatantly.... this is penalty at the very least... and a yellow card here... why beacuse it was totally obvious and crude....
why do you think we revel in your misery... beacuse you guys are so damn cocky.... you choked here....
you give out about wilkinson or whoever dropping a goal... why oh why didn't ye do that yesterday... beacuse you're one dimensional... you had a platform for what seemed like hours, and you just hammered away at the line... that was stupidity and arrogance...
anyways... defense beats attack on this occasion, the best defense in world rugby beat ye... there was no answer for it... all your ball handling skills counted for nowt... carter is definately overrated... that was his game... he fluffed it... screw the lions tour... more and more that was down to an inept performance from the lions... you were flattered.
this is a fantastic RWC... the highest ranking teams have been made look like fools... the lowly teams don't have chance to go up the rankings cause they get no chance to play the 1st - 8th place teams... which is rubbish, and when they do, they can't access their players
SA today were appalling... fiji played rugby the way it should be played.. 800,000 country puts it up to a 47 mil country... shocking
Complain about this comment
SOOKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Complain about this comment
It was definately a forward pass from the French. But if there is ONE team that has gotten away with tries from forward pass it is the All Blacks.
@Hernan..I've got two reasons the Puma's should not take part in the tri-nations..First one..tri means three..so that won't work. Second one: Argentina might beat the boks. Can't have any of that ;-)
Complain about this comment
Interesting to see many people pointing out a forward pass in France's winning try.
However I've regularly seen forward passes allowed in Super 14 seemingly in the interests of running rugby.
You can't have it all ways NZ.
Complain about this comment
Ah...What could Andrew Mehrtens have done for the AB's in those last ghastly mintues?
Complain about this comment
Michael (comment 58), there were a lot of poor decisions made on the pitch on saturday, most of them by the team in silver and black.
take a look at the match stats: 71% possession to New Zealand, 63% territory. France made 178 tackles to New Zealand's 36. (official RWC website match stats)
There should only have been one winner. If a team dominates to such an extent, the opposition would expect to lose by a cricket score.
For all that possession and the NZ back's reputation, there were only two line breaks. France managed one.
Time for the AB's to look closer to home for their excuses
Complain about this comment
It seems a real shame that 17 of France's 20 points came from just two crap referee decisions.
First 3 for a penalty and then a converted try when NZ was down to 14 men - all because Luke McAllister had someone run into the back of him when McAllister or the French player concerned had no chance of getting to the ball first anyway. And then another 7 points towards the end from a blatant forward pass.
Take away those two crap ref moments, and it only leaves the penalty France got towards the end of the 1st half.
I understand that somewhere in Italy a toilet block is named after a South American football referee who had a howler during their game with South Korea in 2002 World Cup.... maybe the english referee may find himself similarly honoured with an ablutions block somewhere in New Zealand in the near future.
Complain about this comment
Interesting to see many people pointing out a forward pass in France's winning try.
However I've regularly seen forward passes allowed in Super 14 seemingly in the interests of running rugby.
You can't have it all ways NZ.
Complain about this comment
It seems a real shame that 17 of France's 20 points came from just two crap referee decisions.
First 3 for a penalty and then a converted try when NZ was down to 14 men - all because Luke McAllister had someone run into the back of him when McAllister or the French player concerned had no chance of getting to the ball first anyway. And then another 7 points towards the end from a blatant forward pass.
Take away those two crap ref moments, and it only leaves the penalty France got towards the end of the 1st half.
I understand that somewhere in Italy a toilet block is named after a South American football referee who had a howler during their game with South Korea in 2002 World Cup.... maybe the english referee may find himself similarly honoured with an ablutions block somewhere in New Zealand in the near future.
Complain about this comment
blah blah blah. Blame the ref!!!
The truth is, you should have finished the game off but didn't and allowed the French to get back into it.
I enjoy watching the all blacks play, especially as an englishman, but you cant blame the ref because of your teams inability to win a match when it really matters. The truth is that in the KO stages, pretty rugby doesn't always win and Graham Henry has leant this the hard way. NZ are the best team and for the world cup's sake should be in the last 4 but no team has the devine right to be there. Well done France. You showed desire, flair and some real heart. You earn't the right to be in the semi final. There's always 2012 aye!
Complain about this comment
I think it about time that the antiodean rugby coutries stopped crowing about their rugby prowess. How often have they said that England are the most arrogant country playing. They promote themselves so highly - even the New Zealand press men, according to John Inverdale, were bragging that England's victory over Australia would guarantee New Zealand a ticket to the final. I hope that both teams were able to read the reports of their respective matches in the in-flight complimentary newspapers on their way home to the southern hemisphere. They have another four years to reflect on their right to brag. I hope that the British press will be a bit more supportive now.
Complain about this comment
Good game france but I hope the ref know that he has to come to NZ at some time.
Complain about this comment
Awesome defensive game by France and an amazing press response by Europe (and yes that includes the UK). Isn't it amazing that a country so devoted to rugby as NZ is able to turn around, toast the French for a great game and great tournament and carry on. No mention of any questionable refereeing calls, no yelling at the ref or taking dives. No howling press and no whining calls of "we was robbed". Perhaps there are a number of rugby-playing nations (and their press) who should take note of that and hold their breath, and tongues, in the next two weeks of great rugby.
Complain about this comment
1) learn to stop believeing your own hype. Respect the opposition more and you won't throw games away
2) Take your chances. Don't go running off blind alleys, because your the mighty ABs
3) Don't fall on excuses. Forward pass, granted. How many times have NZ got away with that? Don't blame the kit, the ref, the stadium, the coach. Deliver on the pitch
4) Understand that showing humility in defeat makes you nobler and you gain the respect of the rugby world. Whining about it won't start.
5) Employ Gareth jenkins or Abdy Robinson. Oops, sorry I can't hold it back anymore, else I'll choke... :)
Complain about this comment
Wayne Barnes - lawyer and referee.
Hope he was better at being a lawyer because his referee skills suck, all blacks got robbed last night.
Complain about this comment
I fail to see why everyone, (at least everyone south of the equator), keeps knocking northern hemisphere rugby as boring. Power, good scrums, will power and sheer guts have always been a major part of the game. Just because they prefer to play there own type of game in their own little mini-league does not make the northern game invalid. And I haven't met anyone, (at least anyone who is unbiased), who found England's or France's victories boring. Those who do should confine themselves to watching Sevens. It's a bit like comparing 20/20 cricket with a real nitty, gritty test match. The only question now is whether Argentina should allow the losers from the tri-nations to play with them!!
Complain about this comment
What a tall poppy syndrome wall! The All Blacks lost ONE GAME.
Southern hemisphere rugby is not dead at all! To repeat, the Wallabies and All Blacks lost ONE game each despite winning practically every other game they've played for the past three years. And aren't Argentina and South Africa also a part of the Southern hemisphere? funny that.
Everyone here saying the All Blacks are arrogant have obviously never had a conversation with ANY of them. There's a difference between the players and the image the media creates.
So leave the All Blacks alone, they're going to get enough from NZ as it is.
As a New Zealander I am gutted, but isn't this good for the game? Good on Argentina I say and GO SOUTH AFRICA!!!
Complain about this comment
C'mon kiwis, stop whinging about the ref, you're starting to sound like the English. The fact is we lost it on the day and it wasn't the ref's fault. Just take it like grown-ups and enjoy the remaining games.
That said, if Johnny Wilkinson kicks the winning points of this RWC I think it'll be one very low swinging chariot. Let's remember, Webb Ellis picked up the ball and ran with it.
Complain about this comment
With regard to the refereeing, I thought Barnes did a reasonable job. Yes he missed forward pass but none of the other officals caught it either. And there really is a certain irony about a forward pass being involved when New Zealand have gotten away with scores from supposed "flat passes" for years now.
McAlister clearly deserved to be binned for a cynical take out of Jauzion and anybody who says different needs to look closely at the incident again. He doesn't just stand his ground as he claims. He actually moves quite deliberately to put his shoulder into Jauzion as he runs onto the kick. The thing is that it was totally unnecessary. Jauzion wouldn't have got to the ball as it was already covered. Obviously McAlister couldn't have known that when making his decision but that's beside the point. In fact if the referee had thought Jauzion was definitely going to score a try from the kick through he would have most likely awarded a penalty try as well as the sin-bin. Coming a minute of so after a deliberately collapse of a French maul that was moving very close to the line the referee's patience had run out with New Zealand. He clearly mentioned both incidents when he produced the card.
I know its hard when your team loses but Kiwi fans would do themselves a lot of favours if they were more gracious about the defeat. A little look at their own team's flaws first might help. Simply put New Zealand thought they were already in the semi-final when leading 13-0 after 30 minutes and lost their focus. Some of their moves even before the first half was over were crazy such as Carter's cross kick inside his own 22. Then once they were put under pressure they had no alternative plan. And then having gone ahead again after the French comeback they failed to close the game out. Finally their leadership on the pitch fell apart in the final minutes. How could they have not attepted a drop goal when close in is beyond me.
Even so it should have never come to that in the end. A little more composure during the game and New Zealand would have won handsomely. Kiwi fans should think about that first before casting blame around.
And one last thing (sorry for the long post). Can we please put the shirt debate to rest once and for all. France won the toss for shirt. They chose to wear their own dark blue and therefore New Zealand had to change. End of story. New Zealand have no god given right to wear the black jersey. Its this sort of arrogance that makes people dislike them. Perhaps by 2011 they will have learned a little humility and can win the trophy on home soil.
Complain about this comment
'Crap' ref decisions happen, every team suffers from them at some point - c'est la vie. The forward pass should've been spotted by the touch judge, surely?
I feel that if NZ were as good as their build up (and the last 4 years) suggested they should have put the game away regardless of referee decisions?
Who cares how you win, as long as you do and by the rules? I don't think Kiwis are saying, "we got knocked out, never mind we played beautiful rugby". If the All Blacks weren't so high and mighty maybe they'd have gone for a 3 point drop goal and got the lead. It may not be pretty, but who is no longer in the WC?
Another observation of NZ rugby, there are very few highly charged atmospheres at games club or provincial. No bus loads of away fans following their teams (I admit NZ roads make that hard), no chants or songs, how many times did the Marseillese(sp, sorry) ring out? That kind of empassioned following has to be worth a few points at least?
Complain about this comment
The ref maybe simply missed the "forward pass" that resulted in France's otherwise superb try and as all youngsters are taught - you play to the whistle. It still gave the All Blacks over 10 minutes to get the 3 points they needed. Why they waited till pretty much the last minute for McAlister to try a drop-goal from the halfway line I'll never know.
Paul (61) you said "After 2003 and Englands victory, many feared the game would die, because that style is so boring to watch." - who are the "many"? I'm English and so may be biased but the 2003 RWC final was one of the least boring matches ever! A try a piece, Wilkinson and Flatley scoring penalties under huge pressure and then a 100th minute drop goal - how is that boring?! If anything, it did the complete opposite of your comment and brought a huge new following to the game which is why this world cup has had the biggest following ever.
Complain about this comment
The replay clearly shows Betsen was knocked out accidentily, when his head hit the knee of his fellow frenchman.
Whilst there may have been a forward pass, and perhaps an unwarranted yellow card, with 71% possession, and 64% territorial advantage to the All Blacks, they had ample opportunity...if they were good enough...to win the game. The fact is they were not good enough due to the superb french defence. France made 125 more tackles than the All Blacks and thoroughly deserve their victory.
New Zealand may claim to have the best players, and the greatest team on the planet...but the greatest team under pressure they are not. With so much possession they seemed bereft of ideas, a drop goal attempt from inside the 22m as opposed to the half way line would have been a good one!! Saturdays All Black team, with Johnny Wilkinson at Fly Half would not have lost that game.
There is a difference in being confident in your teams ability and being arrogant, I don't think you can call the All Black or Wallaby fans arrogant, yes they support their team, expect them to win, and back them in every situation...but isn't that what a fan does?
Complain about this comment
Yeah, it's the referee's fault: he also forbade the Blacks to try drop goals when they were in the French 22's, and his assistants were leaning on the poles to tilt them so that the Blacks would miss the kicks?
Learn the rules of Rugby (the French did the hard way: rmemeber the 5-Nations tournaments of 20 years ago), and what is a forward pass and the momentum of a player: what counts is the position at the start.
And for the sin-bin, McAllister knew what Jauzion was able to do with the ball if he could catch it, given his speed, direction and strength. Hence the obstruction and a well deserved yellow card.
Winning or losing test matches does not count, nor friendly games like against England, the Cup does!!!
Complain about this comment
James....it's not "like football in Brazil" at all, mate. The Brazilians I've met are n't at all arrogant about football.On the contrary, they're interested in the game worldwide without needing to continually assert their own superiority. Maybe that's because Brazil has actually demonstrated how good they are when it matters.Incidentally, they seem to be pretty good losers to, from my experience.Not really much of a comparison,then...have a good flight home.
Complain about this comment
Honestly, you'd think someone had died. The evening news yesterday devoted 30 minutes to the story and there's now to be an enquiry. Enquiry into what? They lost a rugby match. As a Pom living in NZ I keep reminding people that it's only a game and no-one actually died. Here in NZ they honestly believed that they just needed to turn up and the cup would be theirs. They've had 4 years preparation, a reconditioning programme, players taken out of club rugby etc etc so in their minds, turn up, play a few warm up matches (easiest group in the tournament) and stroll through the next rounds. Henry's head is already on the block, McCaw will survey as he's 'captain fantastic' but, with so many AB's set to move to Europe in the next couple of years and therefore disqualified for playing for the ABs it'll be interesting to see where they go from here. I'm the only happy person in the office today - England won!!!
Complain about this comment
Clearly, AB was victimised by poor refereeing by an nothern hemis bloke.TQ France for bringing back the boredoom to the game. If rugby is a donkey, French team is the hind.....Disgrace to the beauty of the game.
Complain about this comment
both sets of players and coaches fronted the media and answered questions - why shouldnt the ref have to? He may have perfectly valid explanations for all the decisions he made but I'd certainly love to hear his interpretation of hands in the ruck, offside at the break-down and forward passes. I'd also like someone to praise him for the way he let the players ruck. finally! I suspect though, that he made 3 or 4 critical errors that had a huge impact on a close game. Wonder what his bosses thought of his performance? wont it be interesting to see if he gets a semi final or final. Well done France though - awesome tactical game plan and execution. regardless of the forward pass or dubious sin-bining, both tries were from great rugby
Complain about this comment
1. Re post #40: "We are now set for a very BORING remaining WORLD CUP !"
Indeed. Watching England beat the odds to overcome a much more fancied Australian side, South Africa given the fright of their lives by Fiji, and Argentina front up to beat yet another of the traditional "big 8" nations... that's boring as sin.
Whatever *shall* the inferior rest of the world do without the mighty All Blacks to show us how the game is to be played?
2. "In order to make the game more exciting refs need to focus more on offsides and hands in rucks, to assist the attacking side. South Africas rush defense would have to finally be scrutinised (sorry Habana) and the attacking side would then have more space. Penalties should be 2 and drop goals worth 1."
Let's change the entire game to a style which, surprise surprise, is a perfect fit for the way NZ play it. What a jolly good idea! Should we hand any team which traditionally performs a haka a 10-point start on the scoreboard (to match the psychological edge it gives them) while we're at it? (Oh, let's make it 15 if they're from New Zealand)
3. "I hope the ref know that he has to come to NZ at some time."
So referees shouldn't rule against NZ, regardless of right or wrong, for fear of what their fans could do? Marvellous, very mature attitude there, chump.
Listen to yourselves, NZ fans. And you wonder why there's such schadenfreude at your (otherwise wonderful) rugby nation's continued failings at World Cups.....
Complain about this comment
I am a kiwi & live in NZ - and we are not in mourning as the press will have the world believe. Shocked yes..but the majority of us were prepared for it. No matter how good the team.
Yes there were some tough calls by the ref, but so what, there are in many games. There were mistakes made that shouldn't have been made on both sides - but at the end of the day, its a game. NZ TOTALLY changed their tactics and playing style why we don't know?? The Froggies stood up to the podium & took the game on! Good on them. The blacks should have known it was a different team to what they played here in Christchurch 5 months ago....I was there in 1999 & again in 2003. You would think that NZ would learn but no...oh well.
This has been 1 of the best WC's yet - a tournament for the underdogs! Tonga, Georgia, Portugal, Argentina & Fiji. How awesome would it be if Argentina took it all the way?!!
Complain about this comment
France deserved the win, they played their heart out, as Argentina did in the openning match of the RWC, fw pass, referee, bad calls are no excuse for a team that is suppose to dominate international rugby, the AB are going home because they failed to deliver, winners ( and champions ) have killer instincts, they win the tough matches, the AB lack that instinct...they are not as good as they think...well done France.
Complain about this comment
"wont it be interesting to see if he gets a semi final or final."
England are in one of the semifinals, so I suspect the organisers are more likely to call on officials from countries not involved in them. Unfortunately this means Steve Walsh might get a game!
Complain about this comment
read on only if you are a disgruntled Kiwi
Apart from feeling gutted and disgusted off the humiliating defeat of us NZers (not All Blacks as the French put it) , a few questions or thoughts just kept bombarding my head straight after this humiliating loss.
I am sure these kind of questions puzzled us all …but I will feel restless until I find answers to at least these…
Did the coach ensure that All Blacks were prepared to accept the fact that a few decisions would go against them? Was there any risk analysis performed by the coach? Did the coach take enough measures to counter the unexpected or the worst case scenarios?
– If so, the team miserably failed to adapt/change the tactics as they definitely didn't step it up a notch?
- If not, isn't it a good enough reason to blame the coach for the humiliating defeat.
Did the pressure of being the favourites did it?- If so, is the "team" prepared to handle this as one unit? And most importantly, isn't this what choking is all about????. Who's to be blamed for this? And how do the real champions handle this?
Complain about this comment
You can't always predict the outcome of a game, but there are a few things you can predict...
1. No matter who wins, the losers will blame the referee. Referees are human, they make mistakes...it's swings and roundabouts.
2. A victory by any NH team over a SH team is seen as a justification of NH rugby. How about not looking at an occasional game, but at trends. I suspect that the trend would reveal that the majority of games are won by SH teams.
3. Any time England wins a game they are once again world beaters, world champions...despite three years of woeful performances. That being said they deserved to win yesterday.
4. If England or France win the WC we will see the true meaning of arrogance and those of us who are neither English or French, might very well wish that the AB's had won the cup.
Vamos los Pumas!!!!
Complain about this comment
"I don't think you can call the All Black or Wallaby fans arrogant, yes they support their team, expect them to win, and back them in every situation...but isn't that what a fan does?"
A fanatic (in the fundamentalist sense), yes. A genuine sports fan? That's a different breed of animal, one that will keep quite for the other team's anthem / kicks, applaud just as warmly when they score as when their own side do, and take it on the chin when their team loses, while acknowledging the victors' laurels.
As an Irishman, I used to think English fans were unsufferable... then I went online and ran into Australians and New Zealanders. Obviously it's not be a genuine reflection of the population, but unfortunately the most unpleasant ones are also the most vociferous - after a while, it wears you down, y'know?
Complain about this comment
Where have all the posts gone saying that the NH is in crisis?
What people failed to notice is that in the last 4 years teams have been taking each other's scalps quite regularly. Nobody is dominating like we saw 10 years ago and my hope is they never will again.
The pundits and press seemed to have turned a blind eye to what was obvious to me in their praise of the SH. Australia were bloody awful in the first half against Japan, they ignored the fact that they were gifted a try by a poor Welsh team, who also missed 3 easy kicks. SA were a lucky bounce away from losing to Tonga, NZ were error prone and uninspired against Scotland B. Yet every blog and match report was telling us these teams were unbeatable. As someone who watched the games as well as reading the match reports these results were no great surprise to me.
Complain about this comment
Well done France they desevred the win as the AB weren't smart enough.
If rugby is to move forward the standard of reffing has got to improve. If McAlistar was sent to the bin why wasn't the 2 frenchman also sent to the bin when they did the same thing, also the offside at the breakdown you can not stand at the side you must be behind the feet which wasn't noticed by the TG when he is only 2 metres away, same goes for hands in the ruck. How can one team not be penilized in a half, are they only watching 1 team. I think this ref had been listerning to S Jones for to long.
At the end of the day we lost when we had the winning of the game infront of us.
Sad to think that the game I love has turned into a contest where the ref is 33% of the out come.
Complain about this comment
I think it all comes down to playing for the shirt. At the end of the day New Zealand turned up at this world cup with over one third of their players born outside of New Zealand. Whilst that talent may win you plaudits most of the year, when the pressure is on and you are playing for your contry's survival it has to mean more than just rugby. Michael Jones (perhaps New Zealand's greatest ever) makes it clear in all he says and does that his first love is Samoa- and that really says it all. Is it any different for the other islanders now playing for New Zealand? It is hard to imagine a prouder nation than France. When they play the players are avenging the blood of their children lost in the revolution (if you do not believe me learn the check out the words of Le Marselaisse). The All Blacks are certainly the most talented team in the world but they were nervous - I would be if I was carrying someone elses history. England fronted up on Saturday because they were said to be hated. That is an insult not just to the squad but the families and villages from where they come from. If the AB's are "hated" then an Islander will rightlky consider it an affront to the squad but does it cast a stain on his culture, his family, his very way of life? Until NZ realise that World Cups are not just about talent but that they are also about belief and fighting for your country these "upsets" will happen to them again.
Complain about this comment
French forward pass? Seems that many thought it would take a miracle for any team to beat the All Blacks at this tournament. Now they're out in the quarterfinals. It was the Hand of God!
Complain about this comment
32
Darn right mate
A forward pass is a forward pass and the ref missing it cost us the game
Just as much was the wrongful dismissal of Luke M to the sin bin in which time the French scored 10 points..
When a ref has that kind of influence on a game its not fiction it fact.. The best team lost because of a great French defensive effort and poor refereeing..the latter should not have occurred..
Did I hear this was the refs first big game?? if it was it should not have been
All we can do now is wait 4 years and cheer for whoever
I hope the French or the Argies win it
Complain about this comment
Well, due to my daughter's early arrival, I had to give up my tickets to the famous (or infamous) NZ v FRA match. At the end of the day, blame only lies with Henry. His selection was a head scratcher, at best. In the run up, Mauger was the backline's calming presence when Carter misfired and Howlett lent a hand as well when inserted; neither saw the game day roster. Truly believe Henry and staff looked past this one for the semis and it bit them in the arse...BIG TIME!
Complain about this comment
In the end it came to the conversion attempts. France converted both their tries and the All Blacks just one.
By the way the French are now surely 'the' bogey team of the world's best in both versions of the better brands of football (forget the American one). In the soccer version they are the nemesis of the 'always the favourites' Brazilians - since 1986. And in rugby they have the measure of the All Blacks - surely the most underachieving world cup 'favourite' team of any sport.
Complain about this comment
France the perfect team?
Wayne Barnes couldnt award NZ any penalties the entire second half.
Why on earth was a guy, with 11 test matches behind him, refereeing such an important game?
I will be surprised if Wayne Barnes continues any further in the tournament.
Complain about this comment
THE ALL BLACKS HAVE NEVER WON THE WORLD CUP
Let's be clear about a simple fact that seems to evade all commentators and blogs. The all blacks have never won a properly contested RWC because the first RWC that all commentators seem to contest they won EXCLUDED arguably the best side in the world, South Africa due to the sports boycott. Therefore the RWC, in my view, can really only be considered a contest after South Africa joined the fray. And ever since NZ have never won it. So to say they are consistently the best side in the world is to play to their egos as they have never produced when it matters.
Sorry New Zealand but you guys are below par when it comes to rugby!
Complain about this comment
forward pass, unjust sinbinning, French killed the ball at the breakdown, Great French defense and lack of AB passion = upset
Complain about this comment
Nippa
4 of the 30 man AB squad were born offshore not one third. Collins tried hard as always (the wingers were closed out of the game). But don't let facts get in the way of your opinion.
As for Michael Jiones etc, if he was
playing as he did in 1987, the AB's would have won in 2007.
Complain about this comment
Why oh why is everyone so shocked that the AB's lost?? As an ardent AB fan I have been saying for the last 4 years that they wouldn't win the cup because Graham Heny was the coach. Should have got rid of him ages ago. Everyone keeps quoting the statistic that they have won 43 of their last 48 games or something like that. Yes there have been many wins but no one seemed to worry what kind of wins they were. Alot of them we were lucky to win or we won but the AB's didn't play well or with passion. I have seen alot of games where we won but they showed no magic and played quite boringly. As good a player as he is McCaw should not be captain -I never see him rouse the troops when we are down. The AB's have never been same since Sean Fitzpatrick retired. As for the France game why did the AB's play those tactics -just kicking all the time in the first 15-20 minutes. Where did that come from?? They haven't played like that for ages. And why was Robinson in the team??
Anyway for the good of the game I hope France or Argentina wins the cup.
Complain about this comment
This was a game wrested away from the All Blacks by an inept refereeing display - not just Barnes but his touchies as well and by a colossal French defensive effort.
Sadly for me, the game was lost when Luke McAlister, was unjustly yellow carded, making the remaining 14 all Blacks grapple with the seemingly induced frenchmen who played like "P" freaks.
In that ensuing melee the All Black backline was decimated and left rudderless.
Any proper analysis of the game must accept that the first half was acceptable from a NZ point of view.
That the second half performance of the NZ forwards was exemplary, but that the back display was what effectively cost us the game.
Why were the backs so inept ? Undoubtedly the impact of poor refereeing.
My fellow kiwis can crow all they like about Graham Henry's great failure, but that is a short sighted and reactionary response to this most unpalatable of results.
I continue to have a suspicion that when it comes to the world cup tournaments, much is done to disempower New Zealand rugby.
Ultimately this will be to the detriment of the game.
This window on the glory that is rugby deserves much better than refereeing incompetence and skewed results based on such poor refereeing.
However, as they say, the result is now in the book and will stand to the shame of this tournament. The All Blacks were not beaten by a better side. They were beaten by inept officials and Al Qaeda tactics plauyed by the French.
Complain about this comment
# 121
'Therefore in your view it can only be considered a rugby world cup when south africa joined'. I'm not disputing South Africa had a good team back then but who can tell if they would have won, some good teams have been knocked out early here, New Zealand could only beat who they were up against, and they did that convincingly.
New Zealand below par when it comes to rugby? Your right in terms of World Cup Quarter and Semi Finals - which of course are the most important games.
But don't forget they havn't lost to a Northern Hemisphere side (combined or otherwise) since 2003, and have won 43 of the last 49 tests....still not a bad side...and surely above par...
Complain about this comment
# 121
'Therefore in your view it can only be considered a rugby world cup when south africa joined'. I'm not disputing South Africa had a good team back then but who can tell if they would have won, some good teams have been knocked out early here, New Zealand could only beat who they were up against, and they did that convincingly.
New Zealand below par when it comes to rugby? Your right in terms of World Cup Quarter and Semi Finals - which of course are the most important games.
But don't forget they havn't lost to a Northern Hemisphere side (combined or otherwise) since 2003, and have won 43 of the last 49 tests....still not a bad side...and surely above par...
Complain about this comment
Great weekend of rugby.
Poor display from the referees.
Teams can blame the ref for losses but in the end it really is something they need to live with until the Rugby Referee body take ownership of their men and maybe they should start disciplinary action such as is taken against players when they make stupid decisions. Self regulation and the belief you cannot be challenged will only bring the game down - or it goes stupid and everything (forward pass rule included) gets thrown to the video guys.
Now that would be a sad day indeed.
As a kiwi its hard to take the defeat but now I guess its time to support Argentina to a 1st world cup victory :-)
Complain about this comment
New Zealand should get a team that can handle pressure. The All Blacks are magic when on tour, but they can't handle the big occasion. They should have put the game beyond reach before the end of the 1st half. Then they wouldn't have to be looking for lame excuses. A big northern hemisphere conspiracy !! Grow up or go see a psychologist.
Complain about this comment
>>>>"However, as they say, the result is now in the book and will stand to the shame of this tournament. The All Blacks were not beaten by a better side. They were beaten by inept officials and Al Qaeda tactics played by the French."
I have a three year old daughter. She demonstrates far more maturity than these so called "fans" of NZ rugby.
I have spent the last 3 years working alongside Kiwis. Lovely people, but when it comes to the rugby, unspeakably arrogant. "It's our tournament. We'll walk it." Now I have the joy of watching their preening team (with their beach muscles and poodle-perm haircuts) meekly melting into the background.
That's bad enough, but could have been tempered by an ability to lose with dignity. But then we encounter posts like the one above. Total denial. It's anybody's fault but theirs. What next? NZ dumped out due to Global Warming.
Pathetic. A cautionary tale - a nation desperate for heroes places all it's identity in the outcome of a fifteen man game. Get a life. You were pumped by the French. End of.
Complain about this comment
Comment from Hernan,
If the Tri Nations are so far up their own arses let the Pumas join the 6 Nations and base themselves in Spain as has been rumoured.
We lost last night but would welcome them to Murrayfield anytime.
Let's hope Scotland face them in Argentina this Summer as world champions !
Vamonos muchachos.
Complain about this comment
I don't actually think NZ played that badly, but it certainly wasn't the fault of the ref that they lost
Carter is the best in the world, contrary to other posts, but he was not fit and limped off. Nick Evans was looking dangerous but also went off, leaving the tempremental Luke McCalister to call the shots for that all important last 10. Without their key playmakers NZ had no ideas and reverted to England style stuff it up the jumper, except they didn't go for a drop goal.
Talking of McCalister his yellow card looked harsh from one angle, but from another you see him take a glance at Jauzion.
Also the forward pass was a difficult call because it was a short pass and was difficult to judge if you weren't level with it
Complain about this comment
It was great to see the southern hemisphere teams get what they deserved on Saturday. I'm sick of continually hearing how good they are. They may have the skills but they don't have any bottle. When the going got tough on Saturday Carter, Collins, Oliver, Kelleher were all on the sidelines. No heart and no bottle.
They need to change their Tri-Nations as it is no good for them. They get carried away playing each other and telling themselves how superior they are to everyone else. They need more varied competition. Maybe they should give their tournament a bit credibility and invite Argentina to join. Better still get Tonga and Fiji in there. Maybe then the best players for Island countires would stay with their native country and we would truly have more top games!!
Either way it was good to see the arrogant bottlers lose. Long may it continue
Complain about this comment
Re #127 Martin Hine,
I wouldnt say the refereeing was inept at all. McCaw has been playing offside in rucks for years. At last a referee saw it and was quick to penalise him.
McCallister was rightly yellow carded, as Traille could very easily have scored the touchdown try. McCallister did move to block him, no doubt.
The pass for the 2nd French try was forward, we all agree. But first reflect that it was done at breakneck speed, (And so v. difficult for the referees to see) and secondly tell me how many times do the AB's get away with forward passes to go on and score tries? OFTEN - I can rememeber two or three already in this World Cup, including close thing against France.
NZ failed again to play to their potential, once the pressure got too much. The NZ players lost the match, and it wasnt because of refereeing.
The French courage and heart was a joy to behold. Don't understand what you mean by Al Qaeda tactics at all. Clearly the tactic was to kick for territory for 60 minutes, and then start to run the ball.
Tri-Nations teams seem to me to play rugby to score tries, and not to win matches where bonus points dont count.
Complain about this comment
I watched the game as a semi neutral observer - as an England fan I hoped for a French win on the grounds that France are more familiar opponents and have less of a "hoodoo" over England than do the ABs. The result, although pleasing, felt hollow. The match officials seemed to be the only people in the stadium who did not see that huge forward pass. Traille looked more like a quarter-back than a fly half with that one.
Now Graham Henry and his players are going home to take some terrible stick. Yes, this and that went wrong, could have been done better/differently, should x or y have played, do they play better in black blah, blah...everyone's an expert afterwards. The cold fact of the matter is that NZ are out of the RWC due to a blunder by the match officials, pure and simple. (That sinbinning was really harsh too). It is a sad day when a team loses such an important game because 3 officials make a mess of it. You cannot blame Henry and his team for that.
Were France better? No (they played well though). Were they unbelievably lucky? Yes.
Complain about this comment
The ref . . . the shirts . . . lord almighty, to think the word whingeing usually goes with Pom!
Richie McCaw inadvertently hit the nail on the head - "They didn't let us play our game."
It doesn't matter whether you have (or think you have) the best game in the world if, when you meet an opponent who decides not to let you play that game, you're too thick or arrogant to have a plan B.
It's the same malaise that has Kiwis on here crying about still being obviously the best team in the world. The results show that's clearly untrue - whenever it's really mattered, the ABs don't have what it takes, and heart and intelligence are just as much a part of a top team's requirements as the skills that allow you to hammer Portugal.
Perhaps if they were to now rethink the greedy, incestuous world of the Tri-Nations, they might learn how to play against and cope with a wider variety of opponents. Bringing in Argentina and the islands would mean more regular exposure to teams that put their heart and soul on the line to beat you, something which the All Blacks very obviously currently can't handle.
Complain about this comment
It was a day where every thing did not go to plan. The French played out of their skins. But it must be said that how did a rookie ref be in charge of the most important quater-final, while the worlds best ref (Jonathen Kaplin) was doing the sideline. The All Blacks had control of the game until the ref had a brain explosion and sent Luke Mcalister to the sin bin for a marginally late charge down.
Then he missed a blatent forward pass that lead to France scoring the winning try.
This was just part of the reason why France won. The All Blacks were not ready for a game this tuff, which you must wonder there mental state.
Any way its a France - England semi fianl.
Good Luck to Argentina!!!!!
Complain about this comment
Fantastic game but just a shame NZ had to go outso early. Was a game fit for the final.
Unfortunately there is no doubt but that NZ blew it. Although Barnes was desperately poor, NZ should really have won by 20 with all the possession they had. They seemed to lose direction after CArter and Henry went off and not having Mauger there to come on was a huge mistake. He's a great player who has been hugely influential for NZ;I just could not understand the logic in leaving him out. Luke MCAlister, a fine player, is not a test class 10. Also felt Chris Jack and Howlett should have started.
France as soon as they shed their crazy kicking game were a different team and if they play like that again they will be in the final. I feel they will match England up front but will have too much out wide.
Complain about this comment
Conspiracy theories!
Biased referees!
Blatent off-sides!
Arrogant players!
North / South divides!
At the end of the day the underdogs won - and that is exciting for most of us. Upset in the World Cup stops the predictability, adds to the atmosphere and encourages the "minnows" to try harder. It is about the winner on the day - not about how great a team has been for the last 4 years that counts. You play the referee - you play hard and fair - and if you lose you do so with magnanimity.
I have been impressed by the "lesser" teams who have played with passion and some skill. The world game is opening up in this professional era and this must be good for rugby - rather than being restricted to a select 8 and an extended 12 nations. It would be great if the mould were broken and Argentina managed to get through to a final or even win. I am sure that the "Quad Nations" would be better for an extra team - the "Five Nations" benefited from becoming the "Six Nations".
So to those who lost in the quarters - go home with some pride at taking part, build again for the next time, have no long press-fed post-mortems and enjoy the game.
Alasdair
Complain about this comment
Fantastic game but just a shame NZ had to go outso early. Was a game fit for the final.
Unfortunately there is no doubt but that NZ blew it. Although Barnes was desperately poor, NZ should really have won by 20 with all the possession they had. They seemed to lose direction after CArter and Henry went off and not having Mauger there to come on was a huge mistake. He's a great player who has been hugely influential for NZ;I just could not understand the logic in leaving him out. Luke MCAlister, a fine player, is not a test class 10. Also felt Chris Jack and Howlett should have started.
France as soon as they shed their crazy kicking game were a different team and if they play like that again they will be in the final. I feel they will match England up front but will have too much out wide.
Complain about this comment
Ref was pro NZ? Cobblers.
I would have shown McCaw yellow after the first three rucks - seeing as how he lay on wrong side of each them.
We are all sick of being told they are the bestest, biggest, strongest side ever. Well, in the last 20 minutes they bottled it. No one to blame but themselves.
Complain about this comment
How can you possibly say McAlister did not deserve to be sent off, look at the replay then next time you get a chance a fraction of a second before McAlister shoulders into Jauzion he hunches it up ready for the impact. Now if he did not mean to do it then he would not have readied himself would he?
The match was won by Laporte, pure and simple, he was the one who identified the areas where France could win and the team pulled it off.
Complain about this comment
I feel sorry for the All Black fans, as they are truly passionate rugby supporters. Maybe NZ can break the cycle of peaking between World Cups if they revert to a policy of selecting only New Zealanders. Surely they used to win more before they started stealing all the best Samoa, Fiji and Tongan talent?
Complain about this comment
it is quite clear that the referee in this game had a bit of a shocker with the french try. two quite clear forward passes that neither he nor his touch judges managed to pick up. In fact from my view of the i felt the referee failed to take full control of an erractic game, unlike so many his counterparts have succesfully done in this tournament. having said this the game was not ultimately lost by a 'couple of forward passes' but in the lack of leadership within the NZ team. in the dying moments of the game they had more than enough possesion to score some form of points and with the talent they had on the pitch this should not hav been a problem. but in reality they just looked lost and unsure of what to do. they lacked the ability to close out a game that England demonstrated so well against Australia.
if there was a world tournamnet played like a league new zealand would win ever time but when it comes down to the one-off matches played in a world cup u can throw form away and it comes down to pure guts and determination, which in my opinion is the beauty of rugby. yeah its nice to watch ridiculous trys scored in the super 14 but i couldn't get enough of the intense battle in the scrum in the England game. in such one-off matches if ur in the game with 20 mins to go it doesn't matter if u've got McCaw at 7 collins at 8, carter at 10, anyone can win a game........
come-on Argentina!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Complain about this comment
If you watch the build up to the second New Zealand try there was a clear forward pass very early on (on about the NZ 10 metre line) so there's no point in complaining about forward passes. I thought that Wayne Barnes generally had a good time - he rightly penalised McCaw for being off his feet at the tackle and ruck (which he usually gets away with) and, for all of Murray Mexted's protestations, he rightly showed the yellow card to MacAllister.
Complain about this comment
Fantastic game but just a shame NZ had to go outso early. Was a game fit for the final.
Unfortunately there is no doubt but that NZ blew it. Although Barnes was desperately poor, NZ should really have won by 20 with all the possession they had. They seemed to lose direction after CArter and Henry went off and not having Mauger there to come on was a huge mistake. He's a great player who has been hugely influential for NZ;I just could not understand the logic in leaving him out. Luke MCAlister, a fine player, is not a test class 10. Also felt Chris Jack and Howlett should have started.
France as soon as they shed their crazy kicking game were a different team and if they play like that again they will be in the final. I feel they will match England up front but will have too much out wide.
Complain about this comment
What a game and what a tournament. I was present for the Cardiff match and right from the outset, when the French totally fronted up the Haka, I knew what the French tactic was. Pure and simple - get in the faces of the All Blacks. Don't let them play you, play them. Too many teams have sat back and let the AB's play. The Haka is a traditional challenge, it also makes for great TV, which in turn helps the game. I should imagine it must be quite something to see this from an opposing side. The French totally used this to make a clear statement when they fronted up the Haka so, so well, which they translated into great play on Saturday night.
What great defence from the French even though they missed many tackles. Michalak and Chabal set the game on fire again when they came on. Sure the pass was forward from Michalak, but then so were a few AB and French passes before hand, but this one mattered. It seemed the French backs were offside or rather ‘flat’ most of the 2nd half, giving the AB's no space, however, the AB's needed to adapt to the game and chip kick etc! It is well noted that the AB’s should have had a drop kick policy, but after Carter came off, that option seemed to not have been thought about. Carter was under an injury cloud before the game and maybe shouldn’t have played as he was off form and he felt it.
As a note on the kit, how would the English like it if they had to turn out in off-green? We’re the called the All Blacks because of the kit, not the All Greys. I love the analysis and the banter, but it seems the English are full of vitriol about the All Blacks, yet the French are full of fun for the game. French fans are also great fun and just love the game. So for me Alez les Bleus and well done! I love the All Blacks and Rugby and always will. We as NZ'ers are feeling the pain and it is a lumpy throat that says (again), lets see you all in 4 years.
Complain about this comment
I would love to have been watching this with that nasty guy Zinzan Brooke. For years he has been on this website taunting Northern Hemisphere rugby. All the comments after Ireland went out angered me massively - where are the antipodeans now? Same place as Ireland, Wales and Scotland: HOME. There will be a northern hemisphere team in the final whilst the tri-nations may not feature at all.
Also stop making excuses. At least the Irish just said we were bad - not good enough. Simple.
There is no doubt that NZ are incredible team on their day and in my opinion Ireland are too but sometimes great teams don't show up and don't deserve to win.
Don't make excuses - forward pass yes but if any team should be on the wrong end of a forward pass decision it is NZ. For too long NZ have got away with murder in many aspects of the game.
Complain about this comment
New Zealand do not have a strong record in the RWC, so why is everybody being so presumtious?
To blame the referee for a defeat is very poor indeed, and to make personal jibes about his nationality is just weak. There were four officials in that match, so to lambast Wayne in that way is really poor and devoid of any sort of sense.
I bet the ref's nationality wasn't a problem BEFORE the match - it's just now that he has (allegedly) single-handedly plotted New Zealand's demise in favour of the French that he was doing it because he's English. If you think that his national team was the first thing on his mind when he went out there at the Millennium Stadium, then you will have been very far wrong.
I don't know about anybody else, but I'm English and would have preferred to face New Zealand next week, rather than a fired-up French side in front of their home crowd.
Furthermore, if Barnes is *SOLELY* responsible for NZ's downfall, then why has Graham Henry had to step down?
Why can't NZ show some humility and say 'thanks for having us, we had a great time - next time you might not be so lucky' and be on their way?
An example should be taken from how Fiji conducted themselves when knocked out. They played with heart and pride and when they lost, they held their heads high and got a fantastic ovation from all who watched them. NZ would have received the same farewell if they'd shown some dignity - people recognise they played some of the best rugby in the tournament and would congratulate them for that if only they received it with a smile on their faces.
I love watching New Zealand, and I think they're fantastic. But I think they'd be a lot more fantastic if they were a little more humble. Strength and greatness are even greater when teams take a loss like real men.
Complain about this comment
As someone who desperatly wanted the All Blacks to win (loved to have seen them destroy england in the semi) Saturday night was a huge disapointment.
firstly Dan Carter was clearly not fit. huge game and he was rushed back, but not ready. Just look at how many of his kicks for touch that did not find touch and let France come back. It was a great pity as he is a wonderful player but we have not been able to see the best of him in this tournament.
Seconly, the yellow card was deserved. LM decided that the french boy may score and that 3points and a sin bin would be better than 7 points. In that he got it wrong, 10 points against. That is the gamble you take but he knew what he was doing.
Thirdly. The second french try was clearly a forward pass. None of this hard to see c**p. The touch judge was 5 or 10 meters away almost in a line with the play. In a game like this it so often comes down to decisons like this and it is a pity as major games should not be decided by bad decisions.
Why did the All Blacks not go for a drop goal in the last 5 mins. well, firstly look at the Irish experience in the last 6 nations. 2 point ahead kickable pen with 2 or 3 mins left. I was shouting at the tv to put it in the corner and keep it there, game over. they went for the points, got them and the french went up the pitch and scored a converted try to win the game. My guess is that the All Blacks wanted a try (natutrally), but they also did not want to drop goal with 3 or 4 mins left as it would leave the french time to do the same thing. Their prob was that they lost the ball with 2.30 left and the french punted it up the pitch after a little time wasting, leaving a drop goal as only option from half way. If they had the ball in the last two minutes in the 22 they would have taken it, but it did not work like that, these things happen in sport.
great disapointment to see both the AB's and Aus go home but these things happen. Lets just hope france play as well on Saturday, (and that the choker Michalak does not play and miss pen after pen again). France SA final would be good, but lets face it anything could well happen, but lets hope the french teach the english another rugby lesson as they do every 2 years in france.
Complain about this comment
All Blacks got what they deserved again.
Is it just me or would anyone else like to see the opposition do a silly dance too - maybe like Eric and Ernie - before the match?
Complain about this comment
I am an English supporter who loves rugby. I had no expectation of enjoying anything in this world cup other than the spectacle of the best game ever invented, but this weekend has thrilled me as much as the 2003 final, the passion is back.
I have spent two days cheering for England, then France and then Scotland. I now read in bloggs all over Scots hailing the English, French congratulating les ros bouef. This incredible tournament has shown there is an understanding and appreciation between the northern hemisphere teams and fans and even a camaraderie which transcends the normal rivalry that appears not to be present among the tri-nations.
The AB's may carp about refereeing decisions but that just makes them sore losers. Show me a team in this tournament that has not similarly suffered. You have to deal with it and get on.
I am now looking forward to a final that will definately feature a northern hemisphere team (and how I would have loved Scotland to be among them). Be they blue or (please God) white I shall be cheering them on, assuming of course my nerves hold out next weekend.
Complain about this comment
As a french fan, of course I'm overwhelmed by this game ; I knew it could happen in 99, but this time I must confess I wouldn't have bet a dime.
All hypocrisy aside, I would like to say to kiwis that I do feel sorry for them, that whatever Saturday's result, they are the greatest team in the world, and one of the best ever. They are to rugby what Brazil is to football ; they epitomize the game, and are a joy to watch. IMHO, their only weakness is mental, they lack the killer instinct (exactly as Brazil in football). As for France, well, we truly are not the best team in the world, but from now on, we know that in the future, whenever NZ faces France, on the eve of the game, nightmares will come to haunt them. Exactly as when Brazil faces France in football, by the way. And that is an incredible achievement.
Complain about this comment
As previously mentioned, from a young age you are taught to play to the ref.
IMO Luke Macalister (sp sorry) did give a shove within the 5 metre zone and therefore a yellow card was inevitable. This is not to detract from the fact that he is an awesome player and I look forward to him joining Sale.
The ABs should get some tips from Fiji when it comes to playing with 14 men - they seemed to do OK!
As an avid English fan, although I was cheering for the French, I would have preferred a NZ semi as I feel playing France in France is going to be alot tougher than if we had been playing the team that knocked out France in France.
Will be at the final and cheering on whichever NH team gets there!
Complain about this comment
Forgive me for sounding cynical, but why do I get the feeling that the name of the winner for the 2007 Rugby World Competition has already been etched on the cup?
Complain about this comment
It'a amusing how every NZ fan who goes on about the forward pass costing them the game forgets to mention that it was 60m away from the line and that NZ then went on to miss several key tackles. Sure it was a bad call by the ref for missing it but it was also absolutely appalling defense by NZ, even if the pass had been backward you wouldn't have been able to stop the French scoring that try.
Attempt to blame the refereeing all you want but NZ weren't the vastly superior rugby team everyones made them out to be.
Complain about this comment