Wales player ratings v Fiji (331)
- 29 Sep 07, 05:56 PM
London - Fiji pulled off one of the biggest shocks in World Cup history as they outmuscled and outplayed Wales in Nantes.
Here is my verdict on the performance of the Welsh players - let us know how you thought they played.
Gareth Thomas - There was little he could do to halt the waves of early Fiji attacks but after a couple of bad errors he scored a good try and then made a stunning tackle on Seremaia Bai late on, albeit in vain. 6
Mark Jones - Took his try sharply but struggled to get involved in the game until near the end when he finally came looking for work. 5
Tom Shanklin - Had his hands full with the magnificent Rabeni and although his fine pass put Shane Williams in the clear he was otherwise very quiet. 5
James Hook - A mixed bag for the youngster who struggled physically. He lost his cool badly before half-time with several untypical errors and, although he showed some fine touches as Wales fought back, he was running on empty at the end and he also missed important kicks. 4
Shane Williams - His superb solo try sparked Wales' ultimately fruitless comeback. Before that score he had run his little legs off and had never stopped trying to spark Wales into life. 6
Stephen Jones - He made a fine early break but looked as shell shocked as the rest when Fiji cut loose. Was defensively suspect, kicking away possession when Wales had an overlap was criminal, as was missing one very simple penalty kick. 4
Dwayne Peel - Under pressure going into the game and had a very ropy first half with a couple of shocking passes. A couple of second-half breaks showed his talent but not a surprise when he went off. 4
Gethin Jenkins - The one area Wales had a clear advantage was in the front row and Jenkins scrummaged superbly when given the chance and did his shift defensively. 6
Matthew Rees - The hooker was part of a good front row effort and hit his jumpers in the line-out but he looked outgunned around the park. 5
Chris Horsman - Scrummaged powerfully - see the marvellous pushover try - and that is a tight-head’s primary job, plus he even made the odd tackle. 6
Alun Wyn Jones - Once halted in his tracks by Rabeni but pushed his weight in scrum and did his best to halt the Fijian power runners. 5
Ian Evans - Gave away a silly penalty offside in midfield from a Little kick but belied his lack of game time by playing his part in the scrum and line-outs. He will have happier times with Wales. 5
Colin Charvis - He tackled his heart out and was one of the very few who could live with the Fijians’ physicality, but it was not enough. 6
Martyn Williams - There is no doubt about his footballing ability but his lack of power compared to the muscular Fijian back row was frequently exposed and ultimately his interception try was in vain. When he was turned over in the last play of the match it was painfully emblematic. 5
Alix Popham - His try cancelled out giving away an earlier penalty and, along with Charvis, he led the defence for Wales, rattling Fiji sufficiently to be the victim of some cynical late hits. 6
Replacements:
Mike Phillips - Gave Wales more presence behind the scrum but could do little to reverse the flow of the game. 6
Michael Owen, Duncan Jones and Ian Gough made little impression after coming on with 15 minutes to play. 5
James Standley is a BBC Sport journalist based in London.
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You have over rated everyone apart from Charvis and Gareth Thomas.
No passion, no desire... the Fijians deserved the win.
We were bullied of the park by the much bigger and faster team.
Northern Hemisphere sides.. look and learn.
Bye bye Gareth Jenkins.
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Let us face the facts. The squad is simply not good enough. They must stop believing that they are world beaters and should take a pay cut or lose their jobs like the rest of us have to. They have been in the comfort zone for far too long and should come into the real world.
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Fantastic summation there James. Where would we be without the BBC?
Love and kisses from all at ScrumV
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How about a rating for the coach ;)
Gareth Jenkins = 1
Have to say well done Fiji, deserved to win but Wales oh my god it has to be one of the biggest shockers in recent World Cup history... They played right into the Fijians hands completely clueless.... Have to seriously question the whole tactical strategy going into the game.
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Congrats Fiji--the better and more talented team certainly won.
As for Wales, I think you need to accept that you are now very much a tier 2/3 rugby nation and not simply blame the coach. Be realistic.
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Bit optimistic don't you think?
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Wheres the Fijian player ratings?
To the winner go the column inches!
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We have to be careful about saying how awful Wales played, and that they made a lot of mistakes. Give credit where it is due - Fiji at times were fantastic. Some of their running with the ball and passing was at times breathtaking, and I don't know many teams who would have coped with their opening salvo! What does puzzle me is the comparitive demise of Peel and Hook, who are both a shadow of their former selves. Well done Fiji - back top the drawing board Wales.
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Talent (or a lack of it in this case) cannot replace sheer determination to win. Wales did not have that passion and could not taste victory...sorry boys, you were soundly thrashed.
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The ratings are somewhat low, yes the Welsh were beaten and some mistakes were made but Fiji capitalised on just about every one. The Welsh team are not disgraced, Fiji are not mugs and when they develop even more structure they will be regular world beaters. The world game is changing (for the better) and the 'minnows' are growing teeth. The 1/4 finals are not a right for the home nations and the players should not be villified for not succeeding. I am English and not at all revelling in every Welshman's distress tonight, but for the grace of god England would also be on the way home this weekend. Time to move on but don't cut out too much of what is essentially still a top team in world rugby.
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To all concerned at the union,
Please look no further for the reasons for this defeat than at the coaches.
Our set piece and defense have not been up to standards for some time, and are showing no sign of improvement.
The coaching staff (Forwards and Defence) are novices to coaching and therin lies the problem.
Lastly our head coach shows no grasp of tactics and contributed totally to todays defeat. Who in thier right mind would adopt such a carefree approach against such dangerous runners.
Gareth Jenkins is an honest man, but short of the tactical nous for our talented team to advance. His own words judge me on the World Cup surely will now condemn him to the ranks of the unemployed.
We cannot waste any more time and the whole coaching staff should be removed before they leave todays stadium.
I have never been moved before to suggest anything so radical, but i cannot see any improvements under his stewardship.
If he does not resign you as custodians of the game should take the nescessary steps to remove him from office.
Yours
Mark Davidson (St Albans RFC)
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If Shane Williams hadn't showboated over his try and put the ball under the posts then Wales could have won with a late penalty kick. We never made those stupid mistakes when I was at school!
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This game was about Fiji. Lets face it, they played a superior brand of rugby. When the dust settles, this performance should light the way for how rugby should be played. The "established nations" are too obsessed with winning at all costs.
This was non-stop handling, support, recycling. People expect Northern Hemisphere terms to put together 4 or 5 phases of possession. These guys were putting together 14 and 15 - CONSISTENTLY.
Who wins the World Cup is not important. The way Fiji showed how the game should be played is. Wales did their best but were simply outclassed.
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Harsh. Charvis only a 6? come on now. The only person in the welsh setup to deserve less than 5 is Gareth Jenkins, and he deserves minus 5. Million that is.
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Andrew Scobie wrote:
As for Wales, I think you need to accept that you are now very much a tier 2/3 rugby nation and not simply blame the coach. Be realistic.
---------------
Thing is, that same group of players won the grand slam two and a half years ago. Players' quality doesn't degenerate to that degree in that length of time, so either all the 6N are 2/3 tier rugby nations (which is arguable, given the way they're playing this World Cup), or something is wrong with Wales' current operation. Occam's Razor points at the coach, in this case.
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Were Wales missing their home dvantage. Would it have been better for them to play all their games in France from the start. Did playing at home back fire in the end and ruin their mind set. In the first half they looked bewildered asleep. It almost looked like what are we doing here this is not home.
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What was with all the switching of goal kickers throughout the game? Jones, Hook, Jones, Hook - choose one and stick to him. I mean think of the scenario... Wales get a penalty, Jones & Hook are both thinking - whos taking this one? me? or him? - i mean this indecision must have some effect on the focus required to kick these pressure kicks?
In my opinion, either play Jones or Hook not both.
We lost this game on penalty/conversion kicks. Fiji's kicker looked composed and focused on every kick - well played Fiji, deserved to win.
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Rabeni, what a game, destructive running and i think we have another chiropractor anyone one runs into him remembers it!!!
man of the match? any others candidates you can think of
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Can anyone explain how seemingly every time at the breakdown there were 5 or 6 Fijians and 3 or 4 Welsh ?
That's where we lost it.
Doesn't take a coach on a good salary to work that out does it ?
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Just not big enough, stong enough or clever enough. Interesting to see headline on BBC Rugby is Dai Watkins talking to Larkham about coming to play for the Dragons. Another step backwards for Welsh Rugby and more cash being wasted.
Get shot of the club ownwers and get total control for the WRU. Sack the current WRU executive and start again with some new proven commercial execs: Appoint a new coaching team from the southern hemisphere.
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Congratulations Fiji.
Wales lost it in the opening 10 mins when they had 2 opportunities to score tries and they missed a penalty. Instead of being ahead convincingly, they suddenly found themsevlves having to chase the game. Fantastic comeback from Wales in the second half but if you fail in your kicks you deserve what you get. I don't believe you can play Jones and Hook in the team, both had poor games as did Peel.
I afraid Wales need to look for a new coach and start planning for the next World Cup
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Wales had almost total domination in the tight. Why didn't they put the ball into the corners and trundle it over?
They showed themselves the way - once - but didn't do it again!
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Where are all the Welsh rugby supporters now who clambered for gareth jenkins to be made Welsh coach. He should never have had the job, he was useless when he went with the Lions and yet we still went for him.
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Remember the hue and cry and all the bleating when Gareth Jenkins did not get the coaches job the previous time he applied for it - maybe now the WRU's decision stands tall.
There is a lot of confusion over his selection policies, the tactics employed by the team he puts out on the field as well as his man management - the extra time given to Steven Jones to recover from his injury whilst banishing Gavin Henson back to the Ospreys being a prime example.
We will probably see the solidarity of the players - as we did over the departure of Mike Ruddock, yet this will not disguise the true feelings throughout the squad.
Alfie says that they will be travelling home "proud Welshmen", yet the pride in just pulling on the Welsh jersy does not seem to be there any more.
Maybe the introduction of substitutes for "token" honours has devalued the winning of an international cap.
I remember following the Welsh team of the 70's - real heroes whom the fans held in awe. And remember being lucky enough to meet many of the stars of that era at the time. Mountains of men, who would turn everyones' heads when they walked into a room. Men with a passion for their chosen sport, men with huge hearts who would have lay down and died for Wales on the rugby field.
Has that breed gone forever?
Too often these days I see players not commiting to the tackle wholeheartedly, or hacking at a loose ball on the floor instead of going down on it.
Why is this?
This is not true of every player, but alas from the die hard Welsh supporters point of view you will see examples of this in every game.
I feel, that Gareth Jenkins and his backroom staff have now passed their "sell by date", as he wished to be judged on the team's World Cup performances. So who next?
If you are going to replace Jenkins with another Welshman, then I feel there are not many candidates who would want to take on the mantle whilst being greeted and embraced by the Welsh public.
Phil Davies? Still young in the job I feel.
Lyn Jones? Now we are getting closer.
Personally, I wonder whether too many bridges have been burnt to approach Mr. Ruddock again, (the outsider for the job when he actually landed it). Apart from capturing the Grand Slam he instilled a pride in wearing the jersey that has not often been seen since he left the post.
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Another patronising blog.
Cliches are us.dot.com
Presumably you are paid to write this stuff so why use all those old cliches?
And? where are the ratings for the Fijians?
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"The way Fiji showed how the game should be played is."
High tackle after high tackle!!! Living offside, a number of late tackles (many high) and lets not forget the knee to Stephen Jones' chest. Yeah, well done Fiji, you really showed us how to play the game.
The referees in this world cup have been way too lenient in their rulings against the south sea island teams.
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The notion that Wales is a 'tier 2/3' rugby nation is complete rubbish. Granted there has been a considerable drop of standards between two different coaching regimes, but Wales did win the Grand Slam a little over 2 years ago, against two of the finest teams in world rugby.
What happened today was very sad but to be expected. The curent players were selected from reputation and past form with no other players to challenge them. This is the eternal problem for Wales; lack of strength in depth and a domestic game that is relying increasingly on foriegn imports, much like the English premiership.
Jenkins must go as he's managed to destroy any kind of game Wales had, and the old heads need to retire and the grass-roots scouting to begin once more so that the Gibbs and Quinnells of tomorrow can be found again
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"Wales v Fiji player ratings". Where's the Fiji ratings? Misleading blog title to say the least.
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Am I the only one was disgusted, not enthralled by Fiji? I lost count of the incidents that amounted to pure thuggery. They late tackled Popham and Peel out of the game. Wales are the only northern hemisphere side who can, on their day, play entertaining rugby. Unfortunately it's never for a whole game, and our lack of size has been shown up badly. Time for one of the Quinnell boys to have a son or two isn't it?!
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There is no excuse for Wales' performance today we did not have the cutting edge that was needed to win with the game, a new strategy and new blood is needed and also a new coach, I was all for Gareth Jenkins taking over the Welsh squad before RAZOR but now I believe I was wrong,in my opinion the only person to take Wales forward now is JONATHON DAVIES.
I await all the criticism.
Glenn from Treorchy
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it is disappointing that 2 hours after the game that Gareth Jenkins has not resigned. And when he goes he needs to taken the entire welsh set up with him. They have forgotten what the game is about - they think it is all about power and money and not winning rugby matches. A day of shame.
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players must take some blame but the blame really lays with the coach. gareth jenkins should resign asp. how can someone who picks a lock who has ben out for 9 months over a lock who is playing the rugby of his carrer deserves to keep his job i just dont know and the same goes for picking a out of form scrum half over a big powerful scrum half have the cheek to expect to keep his job wru should offer ruddock what ever he wants to come home
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It's painful that though inept at a lot of areas of the game we did come back and were ahead, we just can't keep hold of possession, even if playing badly. We went back in our shell trying to control the game and Fiji took over showing us exactly how to control possession and make ground. All we tried to do was that ridiculous holding of the ball at the back of the ruck which stops the game and allows defences to reorganise. It's really embarrasing that even through all the bulging biceps and tight shirts and 'best conditioning ever' we were bullied by Fiji. I'm only online so I don't have to suffer alone.
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I've lived abroad now for 12 years, when I left Gareth Jenkins and the Llanelli crowd were very average considering they had some of the best talent in Wales and the money from the WRU to keep them afloat. With all those resources Jenkins was AVERAGE at club level. Why on earth did the WRU committe think he was going to be better at International level. Were they thinking that if your from Llanelli then you must be good !!!!!!!!!
Let's be honest we needed coaches from outside of Wales to bring some fresh ideas in, from memory even Ruddock had some experience coaching overseas. There is no doubt in my mind he benefited from the foundation set by the NZ/AUS team.
Wales has got to realize that the people who run the union at player level were average players themselves.
In business there would have been mass changes years ago, thinking outside the "box" even would have come into it.
My message to the WRU stop taking the easy option and employing people that you are comfortable with and who won't rock the boat. The boat has sank it needs rebuilding with timber from overseas !!!!!!!!
A disappointed exile
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Sad way for Gareth Thomas, Martyn Williams and Gareth Thomas to finish their international career but the better side won
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What a shambles. What has happended to the 200 5 Grand Slam winners? Fiji deserved to win. We lack real ball carriers in the back row and a cutting edge in midfield. The Jones Hook combination doesn't work, the new coach has to stick one of them at 10. As an Osperys fan I can't wait to have all the boys back for the Magners League. Off to drown me sorrows.
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A feature of this world cup campaign for Wales have been the woeful starts followed by a rallying 2nd period (on the whole).
If the present management team cannot motivate the players and instruct them on strategy in the build up to the games then I'm afraid they must be collectively culled! The only concern i have with this approach is that apart from Phil Davies (and he himself is not sure if he's ready?)there is no other Welsh candidate for the chalice. Any know what Graham Henry or Scott Johnson are doing at the moment?
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The plain truth is we didn't deserve to progress through to the QFs.
I don't agree with an earlier comment about a lack of talent. We do have the players to make an impact on any side in the world.
We showed in the Grand Slam season what we can do, but we didn't progress from there for all kinds of reasons - some of which, I guess, we'll never get to fully understand (Ruddock's departure; Alfie's Svrum V appearance et al).
The nucleus of that side is still there and are still capable of playing that Grand Slam style of rugby.
We've seen flashes of it at times throughout the RWC, but we needed 80 minutes in each and every game. What truly mystifies me is why we've only started playing rugby in the second half of all the matches.
In each match we've looked stiffled, unsure, hesitant and frankly scared at times during the first half. In the second half there is an almost total reversal and we look sharp, quick in thought and movement and capable of scoring tries almost at will.
We've not sustained that for 80 mins. Will Greenwood suggested something suitably stirring was said at half-time today - why wait until half-time?!?!?!!!
We have the players, we have the ability, we haven't performed to the level we set ourselves in the Grand Slam season.
Why?
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Haven't stopped laughing yet! Maybe this will stop 'Alfie' from his ridiculous try celebrations - looking pretty silly now isn't it.
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Wales redeemed themsleves off and on but overall Fiji outclassed them and well done to them!
Now the Welsh will have to redirect their Rugby passion, and support anyone who plays against England... LOL
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Well, a tragic result for Welsh Rugby but a great result for International Rugby; more teams are competitive in this world cup than ever before (well apart from against the Kiwis ...).
I wonder how the Italians are going to go against Scotland?
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If Wales had put their tries in closer to the post when they had the chance Jones or Hook may of got a their conversion. Wales seem to believe they could just always score more tries, no more what. The only times apart from the interception was when Fiji was down to 14 men.
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The result was not a surprise.
Is the ratings scale from 0 to 10 or from 4 to 6?
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Fiji are the deserved winners. Let's congratulate them. They never know when to stop. I was watching the game with the great Barry John who was in awe that the Fijians did not simply play the ball dead in the last few seconds but instead tried to run it.
Well done Fiji.
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Lets face it, it was the result we all feared. Fiji were dynamic, physically stronger and with a clear game plan! Wales were terrible and thats being polite. A lot of experienced players let us down today and so did Gareth Jenkins and his management team. Its going to take a very special 'new' coach to turn the tide on where we are in World rygby terms at the moment. The worrying thing is that we might be in the 2nd tier World Cup next time with Georgia and Japan. By the way well done Fiji you deserved the win.
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Tiger_mad (post 18) Leicester fan by any chance? I agree, Rabeni would be my man of the match.
Mike (post 25) title duly amended.
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We have overrated everyone, we were simply not good enough, Jones (10) and Hook (12) simply do not work together, we need to start picking younger players, who have the HWYL to win, maybe a new managerial set up as well?
Fiji wantd to prove a point today, and the did. Wales just went through the motions.
I do not look forward to the SIX NATIONS.
Glenn Treorchy
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Lets not get to tied up with player ratings. My biggest disbelief of the day is that it is now 2 hours since Wales has suffered one of its worst losses ever and Gareth Jenkins has yet to resign. Well done Jenkins on single handedly ruining Welsh rugby!
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I have a feeling that if a man in a red shirt was running with a rugby ball, Colin Charvis would follow him into hell. For me, he was easily the best supporting forward on the Welsh team.
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Bit harsh I feel, Wales played some damn fine rugby to pull that back and at 25 - 23 there was little to chose. Wales' only negative to me was playing to the Fuji strengths open play, ball in hand.
It's unfortunate there has to be any loser, that was one of the best Rugby matches I have seen in over 30 years watching the game, thank you both sides.
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Firstly well done Fiji. Congratulations and good luck in the quarters.
Wales soundly thrashed?? We scored 5 tries to four. Poor kicks at goal cost us the match. But more importantly poor tactics played into the Fijians hands. We know of the South sea Islanders physicality, it has always been thus. However you combat it with the correct tactics.
Gareth Jenkins asked to be judged on the world cup. A coach can't make the players great but he can help them gel and perform above the sum of their parts. Jenkins' Welsh teams are performing below the sum of their parts. That's his responsibilty. Also he has consistently picked Peel, who is a talented player, but is clearly out of form and has been for a while. He needed to be dropped for his own good. Poor decisions, poor performances. A very sad way to say goodbye to Alfie. He deserved better.
Again Congrats to Fiji, For the neutral it is a fantastic result for the World Cup. Poor consolation for me.
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I must be in a minority of one - but how anyone can cite Colin Charvis as Wales top performer is beyond me. I know we were bad but not that bad!
The problem is that once again the "name" players in the team eg Thomas, Peel, Jones , Charvis failed to show up and Gareth Jenkins ( coach) is simply second rate!
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If we'd kicked our penalties and conversions we would have ultimately won by a handful of points and everyone would have sportingly praised plucky Fiji to the skies.
What this game demonstrated is the raw power of the southern hemisphere teams compared to the Home Nations - sadly it begs the question as to how long the likes of Shane Williams can still continue to thrive in this game that seems to require players to be a minimum of 16 stone and well over six feet in height - it will start to get very boring!
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Why didn't williams run under the posts then Walves would have been able to kick the last penelty!!!!
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England beat tonga by playing a very structured game and keeping hold of the ball. When they didnt they got hurt.
From what I saw when Wales kept things tight they did well, but then when the ball got out there were turnovers and fiji had the ball and space to use it. Their gameplan just wasnt good enough.
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Fiji played well and the right team won!
As a nation we need to stop finding excuses! We didnt preform at all well the tactics were wrong to many missed tackles playing both hook and jones at 10 and 12 is not the answer play 1 or the other not both! Wales never looked like the team they are. End of the day they are professionals and shouldn't make that many mistakes. If i did that many mistakes in my job i would be down the job centre. Fact is Wales were poor and made to look like week rugby nation!
I do think it about time for Gareth Jenkins to take his leave! He should of gone after the 6 nations it was the english game that saved him! That game is probley the cause for this!
We didn't preform well in the 6 nations and won 1 game against a second rate english team (all tho it hurts to say)got complacent. We needed to take a look at welsh rugby and start again. Offer Steve Hansen what he wants. Get him back to shape us up and play the rugby we used to play!
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WALES STILL DID WELL TO LOSE BY ONLY 4 POINTS, JUST REMEMBER THAT!
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I completely agree with Phil Bennets comments about GJ. Tactically Wales have been abysmal. To me it seems Wales are playing to a fixed game plan which will only ever change at half time. We need to look at what is right in front of us and be able to adapt quickly. True, we have come up with the right ideas in the second halfs but sometimes (today) it is just too late.
Oh, and the scores. Melon deserved more.
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We all thought in the pub when Martyn Williams scored that we were home and dry - it appears that the players thought the same - Fiji were awesome and were physically to strong. Ratings just about right although I would have subbed Peel at half time - he had a shocker, and why does Shanklin play with blinkers, Hook is to lightweight to play centre and thanks for the last ditch tackle Gareth but goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
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I dont think any blame can be made to the referree - it is after all the losing side who complain about the ref . Wales campaign started badly when they thought there 3rd team could beat England they have been on the back foot every since. Also this may be the reality check that they need for far too long they have been living in the glory days of the 70's. it is time to forget that era all together things have moved on vastly since then - All the Grand slam of 2005 was just a blip on the landscape due to France and Ireland not having a very good season and playing England at home.
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Can't believe I'm saying this but I am watching the X-Factor to feel better.
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charvis - 6
usually instrumental in any Wales game, non-existant in this one! we lost, say no more...
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Wales cannot make decisions on or off the field! The coaching staff played Ian Evans instead of Gough in order to challenge the Fiji line out. How many of their lines out did he challenge or win? - none in my reckoning. His tackling also was nowhere as fierce as Goughy who really hits his opponent hard.
Again Wales were dominant in the scrum so, with a penalty near the Fiji line Alfie opts for a kick at goal instead - a wasted opportunity.
Stephen Jones obviously off form with his kicking so he takes most of the kicks and misses 3 conversions.
In total, bad decisions cost us 10 points which could have won us the match!
Having said all that the ref's decisions left a lot to be desired - I lost count of the number of Fijian high tackles which weren't penalised not counting the Fijian kick which should have resulted in a red card, which could have changed the whole outcome of the match
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Its the same every match. A world beating performance by Wales for 20 mins but the rest of the match was Fiji's. Why can't we play that well for a full game???? Its not a lack of talent, so it has to be poor tactics / coaching? So sad to see world class potential unfulfilled.
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Wales didnt play brilliant today, but as for Fiji, how many high tackles can 1 player commit and not get carded? How many (very) late tackels were carried out without the referee so much as batt an eyelid? And dont get started on the offsides!! there is no excuse for wales' playing form today, they wernt up to the mark, but Fiji were foul players. The referees need to stop being so soft on unfair play. The referee needs to be questioned about all the offences listed above!
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I'm fed up waiting for a another Golden Era to come along.
Lets give rugby league a chance in Wales - lets get behind the Celtic Crusaders. At least they delivered the goods this season!
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let's give fiji some credit for a excellent display which would of accounted for many so called "big teams". but when will referees start penalising these "plucky" south sea islanders for their blatantly illegal tackling? if wales had committed half of the fouls fiji had they would of been down to 13 men for most of the game. they get away with it time and time again because it's "part of their game". but there's no getting away from the appalling tactics wales set out with. they tried to play loose and wide against a sevens specialist team when a tight forward display with a strong set piece, witness pophams fist half try, would have been the ticket to the quarter finals. we played ino their hands. thankyou mr. jenkins and good night.
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It's about time our players went to the gym because we are losing the physical battle in almost every position.Technically we have some gifted players but its an athletes game just look at the all blacks there forwards play like backs its like 15 men playing like sevens and this is how we need to improve.Best luck Fiji they scored the tries, we didn't simple as that.
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Can someone please tell me what on earth has happened to Northern Hemisphere rugby?
They have not learned, that modern rugby is won in open spaces, quick off loads and big men running hard and fast.
The new rules will expose the lack of coaching quality which encourages individual players to express themselves without fear of having this natural instinct coached out of them.
The Southern Hemisphere minnows have really made you guys sit up and take notice.
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Wow!
Brilliant performance by the Fijians. They absolutely hammered the Welsh newspapers and proved them oh so wrong! What a slap in the face for those who belittled them prior to the math.
Just goes to show what a small island nation, with a fraction of financial resources can achieve with sheer determination.
Yes, they lack discipline, yes they were at times, rought; but Wales weren't angels on the field either. The yellow card was purely (and quite unfairly) issued for self defense. Anyone who thinks otherwise, is a fool.
I wish Fiji all the best and they now have 1 extra fan who will cheer for them when they play against South Africa.
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There are many excuses the welsh can use. the truth of it is they re not a team, 15 players playing for the sake of it with no enthusiasm pride or honour.
Look at argentina, tonga, samoa, italy, they are not the best players in the world but they are proving to be the best teams, with the best collective spiret and passion.
I am english it goes for england as well.
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let's face it the players have been toghether that tad to long. wales have to admit they need more depth and strength in the squad. get rid of jenkins and bring in someone with experiencee. fiji were clearly more dynamic and broke the gain line every time
shane williams needs to be put on the bench to give him a kick up the backside.
just a suggestion but phillips for inside centre?
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I think Gareth Thomas summed it up when we criticise the boys, "if you want to criticise get on the park and see if you can do it". Let's face it, these boys played their hearts out but, as in 1991 and 1999 with Samoa, we are not street smart and showed far too much respect to teams we should blow away.
Any coach will tell you that you support a team that has lost and we should thank the boys for their efforts, they are feeling far worse than us tonight!!!
Good effort boys but I think we had more in us, scarily I think we could have troubled the South Africans.
Come on Wales Six Nations winners 2007/08.
Cymru am byth.
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am just really hurt.heart broken..was shocked.was expevting wales to face s.africa.wales played with no heart.i agree with peoples comments wales have to stop dreaming and start playing real rugby.where is the passion.i know it was a hard game for them but we should have concentarted on keeping the ball.and defending.hook isnt enough..he wont win a world cup for us yet maybe in a few years..but what can i say after watching that match and being welsh.am ashamed.and now my non welsh friends moslty english and irsih are giving me stick.just wanna thank the welsh team..broke my heart today
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First of all, well done to the Fantastic Fijians and I wish them the best of against South Africa.
Second, good ratings!
Third, what a shambles. Every eight years an Island team has beaten us.
1991 - Samoa
1999 - Samoa
2007 - Fiji
I'm fed up of it and Gareth Jenkins has to go. I'm not blaming all on him but lets be realistic. We lost 6 times in 2 years with ruddock. i dont even think we've won 6 times in 2 years since jenkins took charge.
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this result just goes to prove 4 things:
1) the coach is clueless with regards to international rugby;
2)Welsh rugby is in a mess and the WRU should be looking at their positions as well as the coaching staff;
3) the home nations are miles behind the modern game - we all need to look at how southern hemisphere sides play the game with pace, power and precision, not sticking it up our jumpers or throwing it about aimlessly; and
4) the world cup is a glorified tri nations, it just gives SA, Aus and NZ a chance to show how far ahead of us they are.
ATB, Fed Up Welshman fuelled by strongbow......
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OK, we got beat, but I'm still wondering how Fiji finished with more than 13 players! A few of our players are going to have sore necks tomorrow, for sure, and ringing ears to boot.
Fiji played much more like we did in 2005 - so why can't we do it anymore? Is it being coached out of us? With the supremacy in the tight, doesn't take Einstein to realise a bit of England style up the jumper to take the sting out of the opposition was in order. AND - take the points when on offer! Fiji did - and won by 4 of the precious things! We scored some fantastic tries, but once Peel went off, the back-line movement evaporated. He didn't have one of his better games, but Philips was worse. And unless Pophame finally succumbed to some of the outrageous 'hits' targeted at him, why the hell was he subbed?
As for Gareth Jenkins - you've been judged. Good bye.
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I have to say, Wales' backs can string together some lovely play and they are a pleasure to watch - proper class team play - that I just don't see from England who pass deep with plenty of sideways movement with very little headway made(and I'm an England fan). However, the time when Wales were able to show their skills was when they were opposite 14 men.
I don't think you can argue the issue against the Southern hemisphere island teams all being 16+ stones being a boring game.
Forwards that look like backs and vice versa creates speed and flexibility.
As the commentators said - this was the best game I have seen in the competition. Edge of the seat stuff.
No point whining about late tackles, heavy body blows, that's for the match officials to police. All the other teams have had to deal with it.
It seems ironic that people are whingeing about the physicality of the game but haven't passed comment about Jones (10) taking out Fiji's Nicky Little, when he was standing with his leg trapped in between the bodies. Jones took him out, cynically, and a key player for Fiji might be out of the tourament. It achieved nothing in the game. A needless piece of poor behaviour. I watched a Samoan pull out of taking Wilkinson's head off for the sake of it - good sport. Jones take note.
Scotland keep it up!
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Look it was a fantastic game. Wales came back strongly when Fiji went a man down. But Fiji made too much ground in the midfield area and turned the ball over too much; they overpowered Wales who also stopped thinking when they got over the try line.
England took the fitness up a notch 4 years ago but the Southern hemisphere nations particularly NZ/SA have moved it on. Wales looked too small. You need to be big fast and skillful and Wales don't have enough of these requirements through the team. Fiji did and they won although they were dirty at times. As an Englishman I wanted to see Wales do well but it is good for World Rugby that Fiji won.
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What a game for the neutrals. welsh fans seem to be a credit to their nation with the way the are dealing with what must be a massive dissapointment.
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Anybody fancy some qfs tickets. Booked a private jet to go to marsaille to watch Wales and now get no return from my money ! Will the WRU refund me ? Where did it go all wrong ? After 10 mins I felt good after our big pack dominated. But lets look at the bigger picture.
1. Ruddock is doing quite well in the Guiness Rugby League without his new NZ stars.
2. Henson is enjoying being at home.
3. Gareth Thomas has 100 caps but a big black mark against his name as the captain that failed to reach the QFs.
4. Gareth Jenkins will resign !
So surely we'll still have the same problem at the end. A board that don't know how to run a company. Don't blaim the players, coach blaim the WRU !!!!
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A useful Wales build up game for 2011.
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We have to sort out the 10-12 pastnership if we ever want to win important matches..
Fiji deserved it and looked dangerous everytime they got the ball..
If they sort out their set pieces, they could trouble SA!
We need something new!
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"Fiji the way the game should be played." "Fiji the way the world should be."Lets give kudos where kudos are due.You must remember that when Fiji gets on the field they put heart and soul combined with there passion and flare for the game.Fijians play the game in the true sprit of the game and when the game is over they celebrate and move on to the next kill.There is a sayiny that Fijians have "mai na mai"."Come and keep coming."Some of you sound like sour grapes, complaining about the refrees and calling Fijians thugs ,the truth is we are worriers and we go on the field to win every battle fair and square and that was the end result.the Southern Hemisphere rules. Please wake up and smell the coffee that FIJI,SAMOA, and TONGA stand as tall as all of the teams in the Northern Hemisphere.we pacific islanders are proud of our heritage and toughness.The pacific gave you Lima the "chiropractor"
for the last 5 world cups,we now bring you Rabeni "The bone crasher"
BEWARE THE PACIFIC PARTY HAS JUST BEGAN". VINAKA FIJI,MALO SAMOA,MALOLELE TONGA
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Thank you Wales for giving Fiji the opportunity to reach the 1/4s after 20 years. Perhaps, next will be yours.
Congatulations to the Fijians. C'mmon you can be proud of your Lord Jesus and your country. We are with you all along....Fiji...Fiji..Fiji!!
Do it again against the Boks!
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i give shane williams 2, great try but his arrogant 'show boating' when scoring, fired up fiji and we got our just desserts.
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We have to sort out the 10-12 pastnership if we ever want to win important matches..
Fiji deserved it and looked dangerous everytime they got the ball..
If they sort out their set pieces, they could trouble SA!
We need something new!
Shane Williams - the best
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In the first 2 games Wales only turned up for the second half and against Oz - well, Oz took their foot off the pedal. In this game they just plain forgot to turn up. Absolutely no pride. Whatever happened to Welsh pride? I still have it and at 62 years of age would have committed myself on the field far more than these overpaid plokers on the pitch and I would have done it for free and for my country. It really is Gareth Thomas's problem. He got rid of Ruddock - a very good coach and instead we got second best and a captain who resembles Delaglio... run 3 paces and fall over to present the ball - one of the Mogodon Men. Get rid of the lot of them and start again is my advice and after playing this superb game for more than 45 years (gave up 7 years ago) I DO know what I am talking about.
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So Wales are out of the 2007 rugby world cup, yet again we have under-achieved.
Ok it was a great game to watch, but we never looked like we were going to get a place in the last eight.
Where do we go now? sack the coach, drop some of the players.
I think we should look at the people who are running the WRU, until we get the right people running the game in Wales we are not going to get a world class team.
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popham and garvis were the only ones hitting fiji nearly hard enough and popham should get a higher rating for all the punishment he took for doing what the rest of the team should have been doing.
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Bye bye and good riddence to Gareth Jenkins.Please come back Mike Ruddock all is forgiven.you are the only coach which turned our nearly men in to Winners
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good boys may god bles u all.
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please god do the decent thing & go -- the whole coching team needs to go. WRU bowed to pressure & sacked Graham HENRY as he was 'no good' -- who is he with now -- oh yes New Zealand -- their no hopers aren't they????
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What a game. The Welsh rankings are what they are. They did not win. Where are the Fiji rankings?
Fiji now represents all the Pacific Island teams for the rest of the cup.
Go Fiji.
Imagine what the caliber of play would be if the Pacific Islands had the budgets of the big six in the north and big three in the south.
It is a fact that island players give up a huge amount putting their professional career at risk for a pittance in pay, playing for their countries.
Imagine The All Blacks and Australia without the Samoan, Tongan and Fijian players. If the big bucks were there and the same recognition that playing for the All Blacks holds, how good would the island teams be?
Once again, great game Fiji, you deserve it.
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"Any coach will tell you to support a team that has lost"
Yeah that is what a losing coach would say ha ha .....Do you think the Aussie Public would get behind their team if teh lose? Do you think teh NZ public would do the same ha ha Never.
"Judge me on the World Cup" Well you aren't good enough to coach Wales.
Phil Bennett said " I certainly don't want to see someone coming in from New Zealand and spending two or three years here on £400,000 a year" Well there is no one else to step up to the Plate. If you want to be the best you have to get the best people for the job. And if its from NZ fine if its from Australia Fine. Their players are coming over here to get between £250-£374,000 a year so get some of their coaches
Who may times have we heard " we played some real rugby in the 2nd half and really pushed them.....Hmmmm yeh cool now if you hadn't given away some many points in the first half ?!?!?!
And to answer the Question...What going on with NH rugby.....Would it have anything to do with the 1 or 2 (or 6-7) SH players in your teams?
I read that the NZ prop has said that playing in the NH will extend his playing career buy 4-5 yrs. Does that mean its not as hard as the SH style/Comp?
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The Wales Fiji game was an even contest in terms of territory and possession. Despite the great running rugby we witnessed, the game was decided by the team with the best goal kicker. Jones' flawed kicking techique was exposed. Hooke missed from in front of the posts. Fiji missed virtually nothing. You can analyse various other aspects of the game as much as you like but the bottom line is that Wales would have won by about 10 points with a steady goal kicker.
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Be you Welsh or English to many of our top sides have a large number of overseas players great for Club Rugby but not for our National sides and Rugby isn't alone here.
Hard luck Wales but it could have been us just as easily.
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Bye Bye MR Jenkins and take the squad with you what a shambles >Bring back Mike Ruddock he is the only Coach which gave the boys the X factor and a will to Win and get shot of the nearly men Image
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I resign!
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Great game of rugby! Well done Fiji!
Yet again we have the northern hemisphere team beaten by a bigger and quicker southern hemisphere one. Its not just a problem for Wales but for all the 6 nations teams. We all need to look at a better 'club' structure or we will never compete with the big boys let alone the supposed minnows.
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In response to posting 37. Graham Henry and Scott Johnson are doing a lot better than us. I was completely dispondent about the score to day. Wales deserved what they got. Time for change now. out with the old and get some new blood into the side ready for 2011 and reinstate mr Ruddock.He knew what he was doing. He's a very nice man honest my son and myself had our photo taken with him a year ago at my sons school.WRU please bring him back because i too was one of the guilty party who asked for Gippo to be assigned the head coaching job i feel a complete prate now.
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The tactics that Wales adopted typified the poor leadership we have at the moment. Fiji played 20 minutes of both halves as a typical 7 a side game, Wales found themselves drawn into it.
Whilst it was obvious that the one area we dominated was up front we decided ( coaches decided) take them on in a running game, haven't they noticed that Fiji are a wonderful 7's team?
Take a look at the English coaching squad, they have scoured the world finding experts in all areas, all Wales did was scoure Llanelli.
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Congratulations to Fiji! They outplayed Wales and the final score shouldn't have been that close.
The real reason Wales lost, however, is not; reasonably good players playing without intelligence or apparently without a game plan; poor coaching from coaches who are not up to it; nor the fact that Fiji were more committed on the day! No, the real reason we lost is playing in 'poncey' white socks. Bring back red socks and we'll be on the winning trail!
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I wish I was neutral watching this game, as I am sure it was absolutely fantastic. Unfortunately I am a passionate Welsh supporter, who possibly has little idea about the intricacies of Rugby, but even I was screaming at the TV screen pleading with Wales to kick those early penalties and I was fuming when Martyn Williams touched down about 15 yards outside the posts. My observations were belittled at the time by my fellow spectators, but it proved true. Missing the conversion of Martyn Williams try consequently meant that the last minute penalty had to be run as opposed to a more probable penalty kick. Both the early non kicking of penalties and that amateur mistake in not going under the post by Martyn Williams cost Wales the win and I for one am gutted. And why oh why oh why did the kickers keep alternating. I 100% hate criticising my beloved Wales but there were school boy errors on the pitch today which should have no place in a professional sport. I am so gutted.
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A good game for the neutrals but disappointed that we lacked on-pitch thinking and a 'streetwise' approach. If dominant at set pieces, make the most of it, rather than throwing the ball around in front of a side who love to do just that. Take 3 points every time, touch down as near to the posts as you can and have a capt who constantly harasses the ref about high and late/borderline tackles (in the style of Johnson in Eng's past).
Whilst I question many aspects of the coaching approach, I do not believe a witch hunt of GJ will help matters. We have to realise that Wales have not declined massively, we were never in the top 4 of world rugby (not in the last 20yrs at least). Our Grand Slam is treated as an all-conquering spell but we scraped past Eng & Fra and hardly went on to conquer the southern hemisphere and domiinate world rugby did we? We love the game in Wales, but talk of Hwyl and Henson will not bring a world cup home. We have to fundamentally address how we play the game at club and regional level and build strength in depth rather than looking for the next messiah.
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There we go. There was nothing unexpected in this game other than the fact that Fiji played from the 1st to the 80th minute. It's probably best that Wales lose in this kind of close match, rather than them getting to a quarter final where they were to be slaughtered by South Africa.
Fiji were very physical often overstepping the mark, but the stark reality is Wales weren't physical enough. The players can go strutting around in tight tops, posing for nobody in particular, but they looked like boys against the robust Fijians., too afraid to front up to them.
We don't even have a world class goalkicker to get us out of trouble. Stephen Jones struggles from anywhere outside the 22 and Hook isn't consistent. Gavin Henson doesn't kick does he?
Hook might be raved about for his ability to make a break every six months and his timing of the pass but really he isn't a fraction of the player that the third choice fly half of New Zealand is.
Anyway at least Gareth Jenkins and his "processes to be successful and win games" are going. Aren't they?
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Some of you are very harsh. Wales fought back with real bravery and flair. It was a thrill to watch, and only two teams can do that. Shane's try will live forever,a nd Martryn Williams and Popham played like lions agaisnt a great back row ANF Little. It takes two to tango, and this was a fine contest. The best team one and I'm sorry for Walrs, but they went out with real honour.
Yours an Irishman, who nly hopesz he will have as much to be proud of as the Welsh, come tommorrow!
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Wales have never looked good in this cup along with all the Northern hemisphere teams. Wales were poor thanks to awesome Fiji rugby. Look learn this is how we play in the Southern hemisphere! Fiji has shown that excluding smaller sides from the cup is ludicrous. U Welsh should start acknoweldging that u were simply beaten by a better side and that it really isnt a major WC upset shock win for Fiji. They were always gonna win it. Well done Fiji and I'll be gettin into that kava for u guys!!
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Maybe the WRU might consider "The Special One", Jose Mourhino as their next coach. Pity he is a soccer coach but maybe he would turn their fortune around as he did for Chelsea. LOL. but for now its party time here in Fiji!
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Shocked and appalled right now but not entirely surprised as we have been threatening to throw it all away in every match of this tournament so far. You cannot succeed at international level by only playing well for the second half (or part thereof!) - in every interview with Jenkins or with the players following all of the games they have accepted this (though apparently not enough to change it...)
I agree that referees should come down harder on illegal tackling. While it is not an excuse for losing today the reality is that we would have playing against a maximum of 13 men for most of the game.
Hook and Jones should not be playing together. Both can be great fly halves (not that you would believe it on today's performance) but we need a proper centre - one that can tackle and has the strength to break them that would have made all the difference today.
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Maybe the WRU might consider "The Special One", Jose Mourhino as their next coach. Pity he is a soccer coach but maybe he would turn their fortune around as he did for Chelsea. LOL. but for now its party time here in Fiji!
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Far too much blame is being laid at G Jenkins' door. Yes, Wales have looked two dimensional, but that doesn't really explain why they fail to turn up for 2/3 of most matches. In a way i'm glad wales have lost; in England's case their 'success' in reaching the quarter finals will paper over the serious cracks in their national setup.
We have no rights to complain: we are a rugby-obsessed nation which time and again are failing to create teams to compete at the highest level. Fiji has a tiny population, a severe lack of finance, yet has generated more players of serious international class within my short lifetime than wales has. We are failing our youngsters by hyping the few. One poster mentioned James Hook as a player who isn't performing to previous standrards. For goodness sake, he's only been playing regional rugby for a year..
One can only hope that a radical rethink of the regional system and please, a good coach. is a rebuilding of bridges in ruddock's direction too much to ask?
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Get rid of all the morons at the millenium statium and the clowns on the field today and start again. These overpaid idiots have embarrassed the nation since they sacked Ruddock and dropped Cockbain and Henson. played 20 won 6
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It must be hard being Welsh. But even harder being part of the Welsh rugby set up!
Since Ruddock left the Welsh fans and media have never got off the backs of the rugby team. There has been so little support of the team, its pathetic.
I almost get the impression that media and some fans couldn't wait for the team to get beat so they could go on the rampage!
Some of the comments that have been posted after the defeat is bordering on hatred for the team.
The main reason for the defeat today was that Fiji were awesome. Wales have loved throwing the ball around, but this time it didn't pay off. Well done Fiji indeed.
The coach Jenkins never stood a chance. Poor bloke. I assume now he will be driven out of the game and perhaps Wales if you read some posts! But that will be good for him.
Well done again to Fiji. I will just ssit back and watch Welsh rugby continue to rip itself apart.
Oh well.
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GO GO GO FIJI
YOU LOVE YA RUGBY
GO GO GO FIJI
WE'RE ALL WELSH TEACH ME
FIJI FIJI FIJI
NORTH LOOK SOUTH
SEA SEE FIJI
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Physically the Welsh are to small for international rugby. Playing a school boy size winger like Shane Williams is laughable at this level. Nice try and effort but outclassed and he is one of the strongest players
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well done fiji! wales! what a humiliation ,we where totally overwhelmed in the first half (again),and failed to capitalise on the resurgence in the second half!
gareth jenkins cannot possibly remain ,he is dammed from his own mouth eg. "judge me on the world cup"? "we must learn lessons"(when)? "we will improve going forward" (once again when)??
we did not even learn from mistakes today ie; continually using the long kick-off ,and missing touch kicks ,therefore inviting fiji to run back at us which they did ,obviously believing all their prayers had been answered!!
this is the saddest day in welsh rugby for many a decade,
rickwill of carmarthen
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Hats off to Fiji, totally deserved the win, especially with their team, support and turn-over play. Totally out played Wales with their heart and conviction, you could easily see they wanted it more than us from the outset.
I really can't put my finger on what is currently wrong with the current squad and to be honest I wouldn't know where to start. We are very passionate about our nations most supported sport and we have 3 million great coaches but in reality 98% don't have a bloody clue about man management and how to get the best out of a team of professional sports men, so lets leave this to the guys who are paid handsomely to do the job. I am the worse Welsh fan when we lose but I don't look for blame and knee jerk reaction. However I don't believe the current managment team can take us any further, they have had their chance!
Another excuse we seem to be using on a match-by-match basis in this world cup is "we're a small nation and don't have the strength and deepth to compete with the Southern Hempishere - what a load of b0**0%k!. This world cup has proved how far the previous whipping boys, amateur sides such as Tonga, Samoa and Fiji have developed in the last 10 years. The current squad has had it too easy for the past 2 years, just because we we're fortunate to win the Grandslam they seem to think they can use this as an excuse. I would stick with 75% of the current squad but they need a good kick up the backside. I would also introduce a scheme where they only get paid for matches won + bonus payments, for those matches they lose this should be feed back into the regions and district leagues for the clubs to develop the talent required for the future and not to pay stupid sums of money to oversea players who are coming to the end of their rugby career. The justification they say for these type of players being introduced are to attract crowds - at the end of the day we all know how passionate we are and we don't require these scenrios to turn up and watch our teams play a competitive game of rugby.
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Why on earth would Ruddock want to come back ?? The job is a complete Poisoned Chalice.
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It must be hard being Welsh. But even harder being part of the Welsh rugby set up!
Since Ruddock left the Welsh fans and media have never got off the backs of the rugby team. There has been so little support of the team, its pathetic.
I almost get the impression that media and some fans couldn't wait for the team to get beat so they could go on the rampage!
Some of the comments that have been posted after the defeat is bordering on hatred for the team.
The main reason for the defeat today was that Fiji were awesome. Wales have loved throwing the ball around, but this time it didn't pay off. Well done Fiji indeed.
The coach Jenkins never stood a chance. Poor bloke. I assume now he will be driven out of the game and perhaps Wales if you read some posts! But that will be good for him.
Well done again to Fiji. I will just ssit back and watch Welsh rugby continue to rip itself apart.
Oh well.
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Oh Fiji you beaut! We're still celebrating in Fiji! Fiji went into the game more hungry for the ball and at the end it paid off! Now, wasn't that a forward pass that led to a Welsh try when Fiji were down to 14 men? Oh Nicky you so fine, you so fine you blow my mind! I hope you recover for the game against SA... Otherwise bring on Isa Nacewa! And yes, Fiji I love you; full speed! Go nuts, Go nuts, Go nuts!
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well done fiji! wales! what a humiliation ,we where totally overwhelmed in the first half (again),and failed to capitalise on the resurgence in the second half!
gareth jenkins cannot possibly remain ,he is dammed from his own mouth eg. "judge me on the world cup"? "we must learn lessons"(when)? "we will improve going forward" (once again when)??
we did not even learn from mistakes today ie; continually using the long kick-off ,and missing touch kicks ,therefore inviting fiji to run back at us which they did ,obviously believing all their prayers had been answered!!
this is the saddest day in welsh rugby for many a decade,
rickwill of carmarthen
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Feel completely, completely gutted. Empty. What a great game though. Too many errors on our behalf - why sack the coach though Fair enough - I seriously think it was just one of those things. Give the turk some slack. Well done Fiji, all the way from Dolgellau....
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Why on earth would Ruddock want to come back ?? The job is a complete Poisoned Chalice.
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Sacking Gareth Jenkins would be a waste of the experience he has now gained.
Wales and Fiji put on a tremendous display of exciting rugby and Wales came within inches [several times] of winning by a reasonable margin.
Stop whingeing and get behind the team.
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How did that happen ? One man in a welsh jersey earns more than the whole Fiji team put together, sack them all and it might help ! How can a tiny island nation of just under a million beat Wales, how because wales are woefull under Jenkins he has to go, along with the rest of them. Im just glad i left to live in in New Zealand 7 years ago where i can at least pretend to support a decent rugby team.
Would the last person to leave Wales please turn out the lights... Im of for a cry now.
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We had a great coach with vision this squad decided they were better than their coach. The WRU were weak and Ruddock was forced to resign. It seems to em he stood up the these so called professionals and paid the price. How long can we be expected to put up with empty promises. We lost the game in the first 15 mins through bad decision making 3 tries and missed penalties would have put Wales out of sight.
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Well, I thought Wales played quite well overall and were lacking mainly in the kicking - that lost them the game.
However, having watched the England game the night before and hearing the usual call for Tonga under the 'anyone but England' stuck record, I can't help but smile and acknowledge the karma!!
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Fiji did not exactly play an awesome game.The Wales played BAD and with badluck and the referee was lenient.Well one must remember Fiji also suffered at the hands of the match referee in 1999 world cup. Remember, Paddy O'Brien! Any it's all over now.Congratulation Fiji!! MY COUNTRY. Vinaka.
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Well, I thought Wales played quite well overall and were lacking mainly in the kicking - that lost them the game.
However, having watched the England game the night before and hearing the usual call for Tonga under the 'anyone but England' stuck record, I can't help but smile and acknowledge the karma!!
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Well, I've never read so much negativity in all my born days.
What you have witnessed today was a really exceptional game, one of the best ever.
Michael Lynagh capped it all in his commentary by saying it was the best he had ever witnessed, period.
Our boys played their heart's out today and not let's forget that. The Fijian's did as well.Their display of 'seven a side' in the last few minutes of the game was exceptional. As for sacking the coach and certain players, well I think you are all wrong. Considering the performance of the other 'home' teams, France included, I think we have a squad capable of many things including many future Grand Slams. The youngsters in our team today, James Hook included, will help to build for the future. We can't expect it all to happen in 2 years after all. We have a system in place that will build for the future.
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I started supporting Wales in 1959 at the age of 7 when I began playing rugby. I stopped in 2005 when we got rid of a coach who had got us our first Grand Slam for 25 years and I, and all the other supporters, were not considered important enough for anyone to explain to us what was going on.
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People complaining about Gareth's coaching and questioning the 'tactical strategy going into the game'??? Do you really know what you're talking about?
I saw one of the best games in my life today. I saw 30 men, fit and skilled men. I saw a game of rugby as it should be. I'm gutted we came out with fewer points than Fiji, but it doesn't make us loosers in my eyes!
Leave Jenkins alone - don't let the press lead you like lambs into pushing him out. We need stability and if he has the confidence of the team, he should stay.
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what can i say please please to all loyal supporters. stop buying rugby tickets to watch a team that is just not worth the money the wru are ripping the guts out of welsh rugby supporters who spend their hard earned cash to be let down time and time again by gareth jenkins and the rest of the coaching team mostly pickering.
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We have a wonderful Welsh squad but an underperforming Welsh team. There is a failure to place the right players in the right positions.
The main problem today was the one the Fijians actually announced in advance – our weakness at 10 and 12, in playing Jones and Hook together int hese positions. The three-quarters are not functioning correctly. This failure to put the right people in the right places is a coaching failure.
Then, as everyone has noticed, we are not performing in the first half and then have to catch up – or not.
That is the fault of the coach and the captain.
In fact, we do not have to do much to get all this right, and get back to what we were doing in 2005.
Get Ryan Jones fit… The pack is mix and match and pretty good all the way through, starting and bench. Popham and Wiliams are sensational. Charvis is still a giant, but the second row were a bit lost today.
SO… , get the links between pack and backs right.
What to do? We desperately need a specialist No. 12. Probably drop Stephen Jones and, horrible thought, Dwayne Peel; put Hook at 10, Henson at 12 with Shanklin; keep Mark Jones and Shane Williams on the wings; and Gareth Thomas at full back.
It is a question of balance, of slight adjustments, but the mix of power and skill has gone wrong, as has the knowledge of how to play the first twenty minutes of a game. Grand Slam in 2008? Not impossible by any means.
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Congratulations to Fuji on a well deserved win, I am not at all suprised by their victory as they would have done their homework on Wales and would have targetted this game.
Their homework would have been made easier by looking at tapes of Llanelli play over the last few years and the last games Wales have played. Gareth Jenkins' strategies are stagnated and cumbersome There seems to be a plan A but nothing else. Probably the reason why most Scarlets fans were glad to see the introduction of Phil Davies as coach.
Maybe we should invite the Fuji coaching staff over to Wales and ask them how to play the game. As their team performs with passion and desire and makes rugby interesting and pleasurable to watch.
Well Done Fuji, I'm off down the shops to buy your contries rugby top and some Kava.
Good luck against South Africa.
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The Welsh players were acting as though they were celebrities and not professionals as they are expected to be. Gareth Thomas is one of 'the' reasons why Welsh Rugby have plummited from the dizzy heights of 2005 Grand Slam Champions they once were. The players are still living on their name rather than show 100% commitment, concentration and passion that is needed and expected. I rate Steven Jones, yet if we took our kicks we would have won the game and this is not the first time I have said this about a Wales game. Nicky Little showed that goal kicking is the fine line between succeeding and crashing out of world cups. obviously credit to Fiji but the difference in calibre, Wales should have, as Will Greenwood stated during the game, got 50 points over on Fiji. Gareth Jenkins did not want people to judge him on his pre-world cup warm up games and rather be judged on the world cup; judging him on the world cup performance Gareth Jenkins should walk away now. I believe The ratings were fairly reasonable except for overating Gareth Thomas and under rating Martin Williams.
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as a Scot i expected Wales to be up for the match all the way through but they seemed to relax a bit on the basis that the game was won. they also tried to play Fiji at what appeared to be a big 7s game which, having watched Island teams is not a very good idea! however, it was a good exiting game (unlike Scotland/Italy which was simply nerve wracking for me)and the best team did win. as my team have done many a time, its is back to the drawing board for Wales. let's see who we pull out of the hat later today but i suspect it might be Argentina.
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well i cannot wait to read the sunday newspapers for sure. 6 wins in 20 games for GJ? two against canada (no shock), one pacific islanders (exhibition team), Japan (expected), england (were in a blip too), and argentina (ok one decent win but still a friendly). he's had a 6 nations and a world cup to prove himself and clearly he's not the man for the job! why has he claimed he wants to continue the job??? to win a friendly game or two? he's wasting his time, he won't win the country back winning a friendly. enough is enough, no more excuses or time is needed...i hope he is gone by the end of the week! i'm all for southern hemisphere coaches coming back, and maybe henson.
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To be entirely mate i think that your ratings are toal utter rubish, the game was a truely great one, though as a welshman, im extreamly dissapointed and pretty gobsmackeed not to get out of the group stages, we were treated to some awsum rugby. The game wasa true classic for any newcomer or neuatral to rugby. Despite this there were a couple of key moments in the game probly the last of these was
*Marten Williams not going Under The Posts At the end for wale's final try ultimatly cost us the game,
Also to have a hat trick of kicks to hit the post kinda indicates that lady luck Just wasnt with us today. But thats the way it goes and its gonna be whipping time for the welsh players from the press i oity them but at the end of the day we didnt qualify in what no matter how you look at it was amoung the easiest groups in the tournematnt, at the biggest stage we fluffed it. :(
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If any one wants cheering up, have a look on ebay. loads of tickets on theer for the Qf match next week, advertised as Wales v South Africa!!!
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Desire.
Fiji wanted it more and we luv them in Fiji. When we are able to hold our scrum we will win these games on a regular basis.
Go you good thin go.
Sorry Wales but you just did not have that same desire for 80 mins of the game. So you did not deserve to win.
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I too am glad Wales lost. No sense in prolonging an awful World Cup campaign. GJ has to go, there's no question. Players are responsible for bad performances too, but we havent looked like a real threat throughout the campaign. It's been a disater for GJ, he thought he had the tools for the job, but even scarlet supporters will tell you that he had taken them as far as he could and should have been replaced let alone promoted to the national team. No hope of bringing back Ruddock, he would simply tell the WRU where to go!!
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"The only times apart from the interception was when Fiji was down to 14 men." - I just love proving people wrong. The Wales tries times were recorded as 34, 45, 48, 51 and 73. Yes, that does indeed make 3 of the 5 tries against a 15 man Fiji. This corresponds with the statistic that the sin-binning took place at 40 minutes. So, Rossy, I suggest you check the stats on www.rugbyworldcup.com before foolishly getting it wrong. Damn my pedantic nature...always correcting.
Too bad I couldn't correct Gareth Jenkins in his selection for today. All the same, Fiji played amazing today. Fully deserved their win. They were very physical and apart from select Welsh players, always had the upper hand in this area. In the loose, Fiji consistently broke the gain line with ball in hand which was extremely impressive to watch. But when you look at the stats;
- Wales scored more tries;
- Wales didn't lose a set-piece;
- Wales had better territory and an even share of possession.
- Fiji gave away MORE penalties;
- Wales spent more time in Fiji's 22 than Fiji did in Wales';
- Wales didn't have a sin-binning;
- Wales only made 3 handling errors to Fiji's 7.
So, I repeat "When you look at the stats", How the hell have Wales lost this match? There's a number of reasons. S Jones and Hook simply didn't function, and both of them bottled it on vital kicks. Tactically, Wales played into Fiji's strengths by not keeping it tight where we were clearly better than Fiji. Slinging it wide only created space for Fiji when they eventually would turn the ball over (5 times in total). And lastly, passion. Fiji had passion flowing out of every fibre in their bodies, and it was not invisible to the eye. Either Wales passion was invisible, or it wasn't there. I couldn't see it, all I could see was fear. Wales were afraid; Jenkins had probably told them that they should just go out there and play their game and quality will tell. Well quality did tell, and it wasn't Wales showing it. The Welsh players thought they had a divine right to win the match, that they would eventually just turn it around and crush Fiji. The Welsh players were scared stiff that it might not happen. When Wales took the lead, it was like they were relieved, like as if they thought it was over. Well it wasn't, and full respect to Fiji, they played right until the end. Most teams would've crumbled after a last 70+ minute try. Not Fiji. Good luck against South Africa. I'm going to enjoy having no distractions for my first week of lectures in University (maybe the only good thing that Gareth Jenkins has achieved in his farcical reign).
Massive post, I apologise. Can't talk to my English flatmates about this though. Needed it off the ol' chest.
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Wales played good game but Fiji was better jst like last test match they played where Fiji was hosted in a very cold cond in Wales...This was Fijis day..go Fiji go
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D'ont blame the players they are obviouslsly devistated. Under Gareth Jenkins they have been shackled to a
game plan that as seen them transformed from Grand Slam winners to also ran's.
Yes judge him on this World Cup preformance. He must take full responsibility.
His score out of 10,a very poor 1
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I dont particularly enjoy any match of rugby where wales gets thrashed by a 'would be' rugby side. the sad fact is that as rugby gets more popular wales will fade.. we've lost our chance once to often..
as for the team - shame on them all.. never knew that we were short of testies before in wales..
they all deserve a good slap. as for the coach - makes clive woodward seem clever!
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Anyone else recognise similarities between this South Sea Island nightmare and that vs Somoa in RWC99 - the manner of defeat was spookily similar so any talk of learning lessons doesn't ignite hope in my book - over the past 25 years Wales has stubbornly shown itself incapable of learning anything from humbling defeats or of organising a professional sport. On top of that the WRU ("Worst Run Union") contrived to sack the only successful coach we've had in this otherwise ignominious era (there's player power for you Alfie!).
And now... Yep, GJ is off again, not apologising to the poor, long suffering Welsh fans for his team's abject, headless-chickens performance, but promising to "understand (to be fair he has scaled back from 'learn') lessons". And this while having the gall to say he wants to stay on!
4 clear reasons he shouldn't:
1) He's had the 2005 Grand Slam group as the basis of his squad - a squad talented enough to have reached a RWC QF at least (e.g. the 1991 squad that went out after losing pool matches to Aus & W Somoa wasn't a patch on this one).
2) While GJ's overall record stinks - 6 from 20 is abyssmal - it's the blowing of so many advantages at this RWC that is so unforgiveable. Our pool was no "Group of Death" - even Eng have done it tough by comparison to us, and we even had 2 matches at the Millennium! Should we feel embarrassed...? No, humiliated.
3) The WRU allowed GJ to select his support team (unlike Ruddock was allowed, incidentally). Talk about giving a man enough rope. Rowland Phillips - a defence coach...??? Call in Trades Descriptions - even that (unlike the rest of us today) "proud Welshman" Alfie (who, incidentally, played like he was 100 rather than winning his 100th cap)said at the end that our defence wasn't up to standard. Durr, really Alf!?!
4) And finally, I believe in holding a man to his word. GJ asked to be judged at the RWC - and that the minimum goal was a QF place. We've put up with humiliations in Murrayfield, Brisbane and Twickenham for Judgement Day only for it to be the most hounding experience of all...
Go Gareth, go and let Wales, somehow, find the will, skills and foresight to rebuild for RWC 2011 under a new coaching regime with the single clear, minimum goal of a QF place in NZ.
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Have to say as a neutral it was an awesome on the edge of your seat match. Similar to the England-Australia final 2003.
However the M R 6 nations win was a win but not consolidated by Wales after that. The previous 6 nations win over England 3rd team! somehow generated a perception in Wales that Wales are world beaters. Never really understood why beating England seems to get Wales fired up to actually play but unable to take this to other games.
It is time time for Wales to get over this blinkered beating England and everything is ok and start concentrating on sourcing the right WRU executives, coaches and players with a vision to beat any team and have a bit more desire than only getting to the quarters as stated by Mr Jenkins.
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Not sure about the player ratings - perhaps most a bit generous. Cogratulations to both teams for a terrific game, though. Perhaps if the Wales team spent a little less time with arrogant celebrations after scoring & a little more time on the basics they might get improved results.
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As an England fan, am so sad that Wales lost today, and so pleased that Scotland scraped through. After all, you guys always support us so much, and helpfully remind us not to be so arrogant when we say that, while we realise we aren't actually very good, we might just scrape a win over Australia if they play badly and we have luck, conditions etc go in our favour...but we'll still probably lose.
Oh dear, sorry, this is probably a thread I shouldn't be commenting on as it's about Wales, the BBC is England-centric and everyone is biased in favour of Engl....zzzzz....oh sorry, just nodded off.
Right, sarcasm over - thought Wales looked good in patches and probably didn't have a lot going for them in terms of conditions, decisions etc and on another day could have won. Just like England could have lost yesterday - but should we as northern hemisphere teams not be a bit worried about the balance of the game being so heavily weighted in favour of club as opposed to country? Shouldn't we but also be pleased that so-called 'weaker' nations really can take on the more established nations and have a decent shot at winning - isn't that good for the health of the game?
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well well is over at last.fiji well done they were the better team today be far.skill passion and hart.three things wales never had.we are well over payed and over rated as a team.
i just can't unterstand the game plan at all here.i am a rugby coach in calgary canada.and just spent four monthes in nz on a course.how can the coaching team we had go into a game with no idea whats so ever.why wait for them to come to you before the tackle.why not the inside pass to a ball carrier.this proplem has been there for a bloody long time.i am sorry for this but also very glad .lets start again from level one basics and see were it will take us
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Popham - give him a medal! OR 2.
Outstanding, in my opinion - played with real passion and fire.......... after those very bad hits( typical oz ref).
This man is a damn hero !
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well well is over at last.fiji well done they were the better team today be far.skill passion and hart.three things wales never had.we are well over payed and over rated as a team.
i just can't unterstand the game plan at all here.i am a rugby coach in calgary canada.and just spent four monthes in nz on a course.how can the coaching team we had go into a game with no idea whats so ever.why wait for them to come to you before the tackle.why not the inside pass to a ball carrier.this proplem has been there for a bloody long time.i am sorry for this but also very glad .lets start again from level one basics and see were it will take us
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as always - blame the coach.
i am not saying Gareth Jenkins is the best coach in the world etc, but every time its the coachs fault apparently.
the players are the ones who play the game. they are very responsible also. wales show glimpses of top flight rugby, but theres no credit to the coach when it occurs! of course not! but when something bad happens, bam - we need to point the finger at someone, since we are disappointed fans.
the media reaction and the welsh publics general reaction to welsh rugby is pretty disgusting. stop expecting a win in every match, start backing your boys, and maybe they will have the self belief to improve.
dan jenkins - cymro
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Disappointed to see Wales going home yet again from this tournament. Certain players had a poor game all round, the captaincy, coaching and game plan must be questionable? Why the game plan remained the same throughout ceases to amaze me. I aint no rugby boff but I think the coach needs to bow out with salt on his tail. Bring back Ruddock as coach and let him choose someone with a rugby brain as skipper that can see what is right option and what is wrong on the pitch. Congrats Fiji. Welcome home Wales you all deserve a long holiday now in Barry Island.
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As a neutral I thought it was a very entertaining game , far better than the dreadful dour Scotland/ Italy effort.
I cannot understand why Wales played into Fiji's hands by trying to match them in an open running game. That is Fiji's speciality.
Fiji are a rough hard team but anyone who thinks that Wales played like a pack of pristine clean angels was wearing red tinted glasses.
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Fiji were outgunned at the scrum, but their lineouts and rucks/mauls were great. So Wales faced a big fast team that had a fair amount of possession. We all thought Wales were going to shut Fiji out in the set pieces...but that just did not happen.
The Fiji team played with a lot of heart and passion. Wales played well but could not hold out a very determined bunch of players. A fantastic game...a credit to rugby.
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Fiji was simply terrific. Wales underestimated Fiji and paid the price dearly. They could have kicked a few penalties in the opening minutes and opened up the gap but they went for the scrums and lineouts and came out second best. The whole budget for the Fiji team including the coach is about $600,000 Fijian yearly. Just imagine what the Fijians, Samoans and Tongans would do to teams like NZ, Australia, England, and South Africa if they had half the funding these big teams have. NZ would probably lose to Romania if it wasn't for the Tongans, Fijians and Samoans in the All Blacks.
Well done Fiji. You have made us proud.
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As a neutral I thought it was a very entertaining game , far better than the dreadful dour Scotland/ Italy effort.
I cannot understand why Wales played into Fiji's hands by trying to match them in an open running game. That is Fiji's speciality.
Fiji are a rough hard team but anyone who thinks that Wales played like a pack of pristine clean angels was wearing red tinted glasses.
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No surprise. I am a Welsh expat in HK and couldn't face being dissapointed 'live' so went to bed instead.
The writing was on the wall from the very first game with Canada, actually, Wales have not 'performed' since Ruddock and Griffiths left; Our loss, Worcester's gain.
I hope the WRU has the guts to make the changes necessary, and look in the mirror as well.
Hope the Welsh supporters are able to sell those very expensive QF tickets.
The rebuilding must start now for the next World Cup, it will be a painful few seasons. At least RWC2011 will be in my time zone!
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I am an English expat in Hong Kong at the HKFC and tonight was brilliant. I reckon Hong Kong could of beaten Wales. If England had lost to Tonga the Welsh would of celebrated. WELL DONE FIJI, I AM HAVING A BEER IN YOUR HONOUR! ALl the welshies have given me enough stick this World Cup. Face it you are not New Zealand (despite how you market yourselfs) and England are better than you! BRILLIANT FIJI!
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I am left wondering what the object of the game of rugby is? SP teams play it like it is some form of tribal battle with the main objective to intimidate opponents.The referee could have chosen to uphold tackling laws and reined in the physical excesses of Fiji. You could give Stephen Jones 100 goes at hitting the posts and he would not manage three!
Genetically Wales does not produce the brick outhouses of the SP islanders. They can run and pass but lack the ability to rule at set piece, so after the cleanest of push-overs Wales tried to play loose and perished.Whoever thinks kicking to open field is a 'tactic'needs correcting.GJ please go gracefully.
Wales won all aspects of the game except kicking and turn-overs. Why do we play 2 outside halves? There are specialist 12s in the country?
Thanks for trying team - time for all true supporters to come to the aid of the country and SHUT UP. WRU should sort this out in private. Bad enough to lose but then to gut ourselves in public? - unnecessary.
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I have read that some considered this game one of the best they have seen - well I found it to be a harrowing experience - its 4 oclock in the morning and I cannot sleep because I cannot get this game out of my head.
I fully agree that Jenkins must go. The replacement must be someone who can build a team - teamwork is the key - building a team around Alun wyn jones and hook bringing in young talent and looking ahead to 2011.
Congratulations to Fiji
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Well what can I say? As proud Welshman I celebrated my 34th birthday today with Wales being knocked out of the 2007 World cup. Sitting here writing this message, after reflecting what has happened. I am not surprised Wales has been knocked out. As this has not been the first time welsh supporters have been disappointed. For years we have built ourselves up to believing that our international rugby team is much better than what it is.
The current Welsh side has some great players and the core of the team have been around for as some years and I truly belief that on its day we can beat most of the top 5 sides. Since the 2005 grand slam we have slipped back in terms of players and coaches. The current Welsh coaches are a young set of international coaches and that apart from Gareth Jenkins & Nigel Davies are the only coaches to have worked in the Magners league. But where do we go from here, we have a habit of sacking coaches before they finish their contracts. We have had Southern Hemisphere coaches in the past which have showed that can improve Welsh rugby. But I think we need a blend of Welsh and Southern hemisphere coaches to help us play the rugby that suits us and give us the tactical awareness that would help.
After the current Northern Hemisphere performance, I think that a British
Super league is inevitable as none of the British countries have dazzled the 2007 RWC.