Hacked off with the Haka (772)
- 24 Sep 07, 05:15 PM
This may be the quickest and perhaps least professional blog ever to hit the web but there are valid reasons.
Since I had to check my lap-top in with the rest of my luggage, I am left tapping away at one of those internet kiosks where you pile in coins (which are short).
You have to work as furiously as you can, while your time left, your money and possibly your life quietly slip away in the bottom right hand corner of the screen.
I am also encircled by one of the longest check-in queues I have ever seen, consisting almost entirely of All Black supporters - the army of The Dark Lord Henry is on the march again.
They don't sing and aren't drunk. They just stand grim and stony-faced.
Frustrated perhaps at the fact that a family has chosen the front of the queue to re-pack all five of their cases.
Perhaps also that NO ONE IN THIS TOURNAMENT CAN GIVE THEM A PROPER GAME.
You see, that little Ronnie Corbett-esque diversion has just cost me 24 pence and over two minutes of precious time.
So I'll get straight to the point.
The game between New Zealand and Scotland was as close to pointless as you're going to get, a point my colleague Phil Harlow has covered in depth elsewhere on this blog, but there is one thing I would like to raise.
I have said for a while (and heard it said by plenty of others) that the All Blacks should not be allowed to perform the Haka after the anthems.
I love the sight and sound of the Haka but should they always have the final say, psychologically, before kick-off? As if they need it.
They certainly shouldn't get offended if opposing teams choose to face it in their own way, ignore it, throw a blade of grass in the wrong direction or request, as the Welsh did, that they might be allowed to respond with their own anthem.
And they lose any argument they have for doing it on the grounds that it is traditional when they perform their all-new Haka, thankfully without the throat slitting gesture, as they did once again at Murrayfield.
What, so now you're allowed to perform any choreographed routine before the game? I look forward to the Lambada from Andrew Sheridan and George Chuter.
I also look forward to plenty of disagreement from All Black supporters. If they ever get to check-in.
There. Done it. And just before my money ran out - this has cost me six quid.
Ah, there's an hour delay to my flight...
Andrew Cotter is a BBC Sport commentator specialising in rugby union and golf. He is covering Scotland at the World Cup for Radio 5live and you can see the station's full broadcast schedule here.
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No I'm not hacked of with the haka I enjoy watching it. I believe that this rugby tradition should be kept only thing that worries me is that the English might do a morris dance or the Scots a jig around claymores. People like the haka let it continue
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Actually, why do we bother with the anthems, either? They just delay the astart of the game in an effort to crank up the nationalist fervour a bit. frankly, either it's a big gameor it isn't and national anthems aren't going to make, say, Tonga US a big game or stop NZ-Australia from being a big game, so why bother?
Plus England have the most boring, tedious song ever droned as their anthem. I suggest that they practice while all this is going on - they do need it, after all. NZ can do a bit of native dancing to pass the time, but the rest of us have catching up to do.
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Have to agree whole-heartedly about your sentiments over the Haka. The Kiwis can't argue that it's traditional anymore as they have completely changed it. Thankfully they have dropped the repugnant throat-slitting gesture that originally went with this new one!
If the All Blacks are going to rely on the old 'It was how we traditionally challenged our enemies' line perhaps the Scots could have replied in kind. My understanding is that the Scots traditional challenge before battle was to lift their kilts and expose their wedding tackle and then their rear ends to their enemies.
Come to think of it that would have certainly livened up Sunday's meeting!
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How refreshing to read Andrew Cotter's comments re the NZ Haka. It has become an issue that is politically incorrect to criticise.
Whatever the original context for the Haka, it was not intended for the rugby field. It should be respected as a part of that land's culture and no more. Is the Haka performed before NZ play international cricket? Possibly Ireland should take something from Riverdance; that was based on Irish tradition and mythology dating back at least as far as the Haka. What is good for one nation has to be open for all who feel the need to exhibit the national identity. As for NZ, how they play rugby displays their identity.
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Totally agree with you about the Hakka, its a war challenge, to the death, not very sportsmanlike especially the throat slitting.
I suggest the English do a morris dance, the Irish Riverdance and the scottish well line up in their kilts and .........
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At last someone who feels as I do that New Zealand (or anyone else) shouldn’t be allowed the extra advantage of the ‘Haga’ or the extra song to get at your rivals.
It’s very unfair as the rivals just have to stand and watch. If they respond in any way it’s deemed as ‘unsportmanslike’. Crap! NZ and the rest should only be allowed their National Anthem.
Who wants to see grown men behaving like toads anyway!
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I agree. I think the Haka is fabulous to watch if you are a neutral but surely the opposition should have a right of reply?
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You raise a valid point sir. I often wonder if England or any of the other home nations were to respond with a "traditional" dance to haka; then what would it be? I get the feeling the Scotish, Welsh and Irish could probably come up with rousingly celtic and defiant in the face of throat slitting and aggressive grass throwing.
England, however could probably and at a push respond with... the Morris Dance- a load of middle aged men with bells on their knees waving hankies in your face. Don't know about anyone else but it scares the hell out of me...
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I wouldn't want to see the end of the Haka, I have always enjoyed watching it.
I do agree though that they should take no offence at teams responded however they wish. I would like to see more teams walk right up to them, effectivley answering the challenge, rather than just sit back and watch.
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I agree with you on this one... how can you have a "new" traditional item!
Having the last word before the start of the game is a big psychological advantage and one that teams of late have tried to minimise by leaving tracksuits on to watch it...
It is traditional and as such deserves inclusiong, but if it is changed then others should be allowed to modifuy their pre-match routine too... George Chuter and Andrew Sheridon get ready..
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With all due respect, i do not think you know as much about rugby as you claim and even if you do then this blog is a tad controversial and insulting to the NZ. You may know the players rules etc but surely any ex player and genuine rugby lover will know the tradition of the haka is something that goes side the anthems. If you say get rid of the haka, why not get rid of anthems full stop. I love going to watch NZ and the unbelievable rugby aside (which no European teams have produced thus far) the haka is something i have grown to love.
It gets the players and fans fired up, which is quite useful as rugby is a physical game (something which the current English team seem to have forgot)
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I agree entirely with your comments on the Haka. Can anybody tell me just WHY you must respect it? The latest version looks to the neutral to be a very threatening set of gestures that simply deserves any reaction it gets. BTW how many actual Maoris are there in New Zealand squad (as opposed to Samoans, Tongans, Fijians etc.)?
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I agree, I think England should be able to do a Morris dance before each game, it would be great imagine how embarrassed the allblacks would be! Morris dancing is far superior.
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Andrew my commiserations on your travails with the flights.Stay calm breathe deeply and levitate.If nothing else you will be arrested and thrown out of the country. No flight delays when this is the order of the day,methinks.
The Haka is,without question one of the biggest scams in world sport.The All Blacks didn't know a Haka from the hokey cokey until a few years ago when they decide that NZ actually encompassed most of the Southern Pacific Islands and in order to seem authentic and non-poaching they beefed up the haka with the help of a few Maori players in the national squad. There is actual footage of the All Black haka circa 1968 where the New Zealanders are actually laughing at their own ineptitude in performing this All Black "tradition"
Campese had the right idea just go to the other end of the field and continue with your pre match preperations.
Ban the Haka I cry, no doubt in vain.
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Maybe the England team could do the Conga or even better a chorus of "Who are ya Who are ya Who are ya!"
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I agree. I think the Haka is fabulous to watch if you are a neutral but surely the opposition should have a right of reply?
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In days before the massive coverage that international rugby now receives, the haka was a novelty and enjoyed by most when viewed for the first time. We are all now extremely familiar (and jaded) by it. As such it is now employed as a form of intimidation rather than a demonstration of native culture. I agree that the Haka (and its derivatives) need either to be discontinued or only performed on specific ocassions (such as winning the RWC!).
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As a Welshman, I disagree completely with your suggestion that the Haka should be responded to! The AB's have been the dominant force in world rugby for many, many years!! Do you actually think that this is because the Haka has given them such an advantage over the years? I think not!! They have consistently been the best side in the world because of their hunger to beat any side in their way, the intense conditioning and training they get, excellent coaching and fantastic individual talent! The Fijians, Samoans and Tongans perform their own challenge, but are nowhere near as succesful as their neighbours.
It is a great spectable and the only disappointment for me is thhe fact that they now consistently use the "new" Haka instead of the traditional Haka which is a pleasure to see and would be an absolute honour to face!!
Keep it up AB's!!
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Funny how no-one complains about the Samoan, Fijian and Tongan hakas.
Is this because none of these sides is expected to win, so whether they gain a psychological advantage from doing a haka is irrelevant?
Personally, I think opposition sides should be able to respond to the NZ haka. They're demanding we respect their culture, so they should be prepared to respect the culture of (in my case) 70,000 fellow Welshmen and listen to us sing our hearts out.
But then that's the tricky thing about respect, it cuts both ways - to deserve it, you need to earn it.
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I agree with you entirely. Can anybody tell me WHY you should show respect for such a provocative dance?
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What happens when they face Samoa who want to perform their version of it? Will they throw their toys out of the pram then if they don't get the last word.
Not sure about dropping the Haka, but certainly should be anthem or Haka - NOT BOTH!
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With you 100% on this one. Its just another case of NZ getting their way & everyone else being too afraid to stand up to them. Why should the Haka (or any of the other Pacific Island 'dances' for that matter) be performed last, especially away from home.
To make matters worse opposing teams are prevented from doing anything to respond to the challenge that the Haka throws down. Why I wonder ?
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In days before the massive coverage that international rugby now receives, the haka was a novelty and enjoyed by most when viewed for the first time. We are all now extremely familiar (and jaded) by it. As such it is now employed as a form of intimidation rather than a demonstration of native culture. I agree that the Haka (and its derivatives) need either to be discontinued or only performed on specific ocassions (such as winning the RWC!).
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I can see it now, two lines abreast, dressed in coats the colour of blood, muskets aimed. Capt. Lawrence D. shouts his command, "FIRE". It would be the last time we would witness the Haka and maybe England would win. What a thrill that would be.
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I heard that the Aussies get over the haka by reciting "Humpty Dumpty" to themselves at the same cadence as it's delivered. Lost all respect for the All Blacks following on from that "tackle" on O'Driscoll in the Lions tour. Let's hope the Argies beat Ireland, then pit the French against the AB's, and surprise them with a real contest for a change.
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What happens when NZ play Samoa - who gets "last go" at the haka?
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More of a fad than a tradition in the greater scheme of things.NZ are a bit precious about this prematch ritual which has never yet been successfully carried out by their water-polo team.
Quaint fad from the amateur days that has no place in Pro sport.Anyway as most of their team are from the islands surely more apprpriate to do Samoan/Tongan/Fijian jig???
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Its strange that everybody suddenly has a problem with New Zealand doing their 'haka' but nobody has a problem or even mentions Fiji, Samoa and Tonga doing their's (which in my opinion are more agressive than the all blacks)
The haka is a fantastic thing to watch and a great bit of theatre before kick off (I was in the Millenium Stadium back in November and i was absolutely gutted that i didnt see it performed on the pitch, and judging by the chanting so were 75,000 other welsh people)
All this rubbish about it firing them up and intimidating the opposition, as Brian Moore once said 'If you're intimidated by the haka then you shouldn't be out there facing it' (or something along those lines anyway)
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Well said Andrew, the haka's time is past, not least because the All Blacks have become so precious about it. If we must put up with it, why don't opposing teams follow the example of the Irish team of about 20 years ago (captained by Willie Anderson of Argentinian flag-stealing fame) and link arms and walk slowly ever closer to the All Blacks as they go through their ballet-dancing routine. It didn't half wind them up I can tell you.
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Am i glad others feel the same about this soft routine the all blacks do before every game !!
the welsh had the rite idea they wanted to respond with their own nationl anthem but the kiwis threw their teddy out the pram and said they couldnt , so apparently they performed it in the dressin room !
I1d like to see the oppositon turn away and discuss team tactics or warm up the other end of the pitch.
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Get over it. The Haka is part of the international game.
The 'Kamate' haka was better and more parcipitative than the current chant, but it's not our party and we can't cry if we want to.
I am an England man through and through and I wish people would stop whining about the Haka and start concentrating on the fact that our team is a pathetic bunch of hapless schoolgurls compared to the current All-Blacks.
If you want to comment on something, try the absurd design of England's kit, or the fact that most of our best players were knackered out of the tournament before it even started.
Getting at the Haka is like complaining about the mosquitos on holiday - they won't go away and they don't care what one says.
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In spite of the fact that I am British, I believe that the Haka is a tradition that the majority of rugby fans enjoy watching. It adds a different dimension to the game, and is a treat to watch for everybody - neutral, Kiwi or neither. International rugby, as with all sport, is brilliant because of the national pride and the honour of representing your country, a remarkable accomplishment. The National anthems, and the Haka, are in the very spirit of the international game, and with their abolition would go the heart and soul of International rugby, scrapping not only the tradition of national anthems and the Haka, but also the pride and honour which has been deep at the heart of International rugby since its inception.
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how can u get "hacked off" with the haka. its a traditional spectacle that any decent sports fan should relish the opportunity to watch. if u dont want to see it dont watch it.its something to see and something that means a lot to the players performing it, why should they lose out because a minority want rid of it. by the way its not only the all blacks that perform it, the pacific isles, fiji tonga samoa all have some version of a war dance before a game and will they be banned as well. the haka adds to the mystique of the all blacks and goes some way to to make them the lengends they are on the field. o and one last thing the throat slittig gesture has only been performed towards sides that have offended them or ridiculed them like the aussies who made an advert with the all blacks doing the haka with handbags and the throat slit was a response to that not a general threat to all other teams. leave the all blacks and their haka to it.
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but is it really part of the game to give one team an unfair advantage before the game even starts? it is a war dance for heaven sake, designed to intimidate the opponents. it is quite agressive and no matter how tough the players are I for one believe they are affected - if only ever so little - which gives an advantage to the All Blacks.
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Surely the ABs lost any right for the haka to be dutifully and solemnly respected the moment they sold it to Adidas for a TV commercial?
Besides, the AB haka as we know it isn't that "traditional" anyway, it only dates back to about 1986 when Buck Shelford was captain. Before that, it resembled something more like a morris dance.
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Oh come on if the other countries are intimidated by the Haka, they shouldn't be playing. It's all for the spectators now. Besides, when the opponents look like they don't give a monkeys, I hardly think it's going to cause any psychological concern?!
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When I started watching the All Blacks the Haka was not always performed, but it did not spoil my enjoyment of watching these proud and talented rugby players representing their country. I am in agreement with you regarding the Haka and feel the All Blacks get an unfair advantage from it, both in its timing and performance. The Haka stems from a Maori battle dance and there are fewer and fewer Maoris in the present day All Blacks and it is purely used in an attempt to intimidate the opposition. I feel during such a prestigious tournament such as the World Cup neither team should be given or expect any advantage as afforded the All Blacks. If they wish to continue performing the Haka they can do so during "friendly" tours to entertain the occasional supporter.
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I think the article by Andrew Cotter is rather childish. As an englishman I have always enjoyed watching the All Blacks including the Haka as a traditional start to their performance. They are one of the great rugby nations and winning against the All Blacks is a highlight for any team. Long may they start their games with a Haka!!! The northern hemisphere teams need to focus on improving the standard of their rugby so that they can offer a challenge on the pitch that will offer the ultimate response to the Haka; defeat by the oppenents!
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I could not agree more, particularly in a RWC.
For a friendly match, no problem, but it does give them an unfair advantage. I also laugh at those who say that Italy 'disrepected' them by standing in a circle. Good for Italy. I hope all of NZ's other opponents do the same.
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Any challenge to the Haka is taken as an affront to New Zealand culture. Brian O'Driscoll almost had his career ended by merely thrwing blades of grass in the air. After that incident, the days of the Haka being viewed as an iconic moment in sport ended and it is now just a piece of shallow triumphanisn by the worlds greatest rugby playing nation.
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It's a great sight, and I'm aware that many of the All Blacks have some Maori blood, but how many of them, as individuals, live in a truly Maori culture? And, not to risk upsetting our NZ friends out there, how do the ones who are from elsewhere feel about subsuming their own island identity to that of the All Black machine?
The memory of John Timu leading the haka - eyes bulging, veins on his neck popping out, absolutely psyched up - was a fantastic one (must've been, for it to be my defining memory of the Haka so many years after the event) but only someone with no understanding of confrontational situations would say it doesn't give the NZ side an advantage before the ball is even kicked.
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Have it prior to the national anthems....(or in Ireland's case, godawful Ulster eurotrash entry).
While I doubt it gives the AB's any advantage, the decision by NZ to perform any number of "haka's" from cut-throat to tweedleee versions show it to be little more than an attention seeking exercise for television producers. And as for expecting "respect" from the other team for this war-dance - with an "otherwise, we'll really hammer you" implied threat. What a laugh. Get on with the game after the anthems, we pay to see rugby not Come Dancing.
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Remember Richard Cockerill and Norm Hewitt? Interesting from Zinzan Brooke in 2003. Hope I'm allowed to quote on this blog!
"It was Wayne 'Buck' Shelford who reinstilled the importance of the haka. Back in the Sixties and Seventies, there had been a few, what we'd call, 'tupperware' hakas. Buck didn't stand for that. He meant every word of it and he made every word and gesture stick by the way he played the game. He made it much more of a war challenge - which is what it's meant to be. That's why none of us were particularly offended when [England hooker] Richard Cockerill marched up to us and went eyeball to eyeball with Norm Hewitt in 1997. Cockerill was just delivering his own aggressive response."
If this to believed it may have been the pc crowd rather than the all blacks who were 'offended'. The ABs just got more fired up!
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This is an interesting thread. The Haka has to be done prior to any national anthem. Alternatively, if anyone really is perturbed about any unfair psychological advantage with this Haka dance, The All Blacks should camp it up a little with Rave Techno/Trance anthems, so you have a Trance Haka, a Techno Haka, even a drum and base Haka. If this fails to please, then each team member kicks the other team member firmly in the nuts, and then the other team takes their turn. The players with the hardest and most accurate kick, immediately have the psycological edge on their opposite number !!
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I remember in 1989 watching the Irish team led by Anderson confronting the Haka by moving forward arms around each other and approaching the AB's to the point they were face to face. It was brilliant to be there but of course Ireland lost as is usually the case against them. As the AB's did their number the Irish were shouting back at them 'we're going to beat you'. Anderson did something like a jig afterwards to raise the crowd into a frenzy! I like the Haka and respect the AB's but slightly less so than if the team were actually full of New Zealanders as it patently isn't.
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Do you remember when richard cockrill walked right up to them , they didn't like that much . Knees up mother brown would be my reply to it
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All the talk is of the tradition but I thought that the kiwi's only started doing the haka in the late seventies/early eighties so its not exactly like its been around since the start of New Zealand rugby.
If they or anyone else wants to do a haka or the Aussies sing Waltzing Matilda or anything then it should be before the anthems
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its part of rugby just deal with it. the best comeback to the haka was when neil back and co got in their faces during the haka, this should be the case all the time as elite athletes shouldn't lose any advantage through psychological means. they should be focused on the at hand not a dance!
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To 'exileinwales',
Footage may exist of 60's vintage All Blacks making a poor attempt at the Ka Mate haka - the one which is known as 'the All Blacks haka' - but you can't start the time-line here just because that's as far as your knowledge takes you.
More 'footage' - grainy, black-and-white film - also exists from the opening years of the 20th century, a time when, one could argue, the seeds were sown for southern hemisphere dominance of the game as Victorian and Edwardian class sensibilities cemented the game as a middle-class sport in Europe, while post-colonial strength and psyche handed the Kiwis a very, very fair advantage.
I take it from your snide comment that 'they decide that NZ encompassed most of the Southern Pacific Islands' that you are highly versed in our nation's post-war history.
Or not, in fact.
After WW2 the British - that is, the English plus two other countries that they decided were part of their green and pleasent land - could not buy enough New Zealand produce, including both raw materials (yes, we treat the sheep very, very well before we export them...and don't get me started on the dairy products) and our manufactured goods too.
Unfortunately we couldn't lay our hands on enough good keen manpower to keep up with the Brits' orders, so folk from the islands (Samoa, Tonga, Cook Islands etc) were called in, just as the Aussies, Brits, Americans, Canadians, and...well...pretty much every other white post-colonial country did after the war from various parts of the world.
So one could argue that Fisher and Paykel washing machines are in some small way responsible for the number of NEW ZEALANDERS of Pacific Island-stock (just as Queen Elizabeth II is English and not German, these lads on the team are very much Kiwis, bro) who grace the national rugby team.
The Maori have been about for 900-odd years in Aotearoa and the Ka Mate haka is just one of the more poetic of these 'war dances' that have been a part of their tribal combat tradition for at least a millennia.
The New Zealand Army often performs a haka - created especially, only a few years ago - and accompanying ceremonies when taking over or handing over a peacekeeping base, attending memorial services, welcoming peers from elsewhere and so forth. This is not for their own self gratification, it's not to be showey, it's certainly not to give anybody a pyschological advantage.
It's tradition, and it's a damned good one.
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when NZ are away from home, they should do their anthem and then the haka before the home side has their anthem.
if NZ are at home then they can do it after - throat slitting and all.
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Stop whinging. The Haka is fun. It is even better TV. Which is why the ABs eyes pop out of their heads and spittle runs down their chins. It looks good. But it is a threat to no one. Daniel Carter is not going to roast your entrails. Not that guy. Coming back from his manicure?
As an aside, do you think Adidas minds every time the Haka is on TV?
But to be fair, the traditional AB Haka is THE Haka. It is part of rugby tradition. I am sure someone came up with this new one to show the new breed of ABs are 'relevent', 'involved'. In other words very PC. Therefore, its got to go.
And if someone wants to ignore it, ignore it. Who cares? It still makes good TV. And it's still fun.
And if someone wants a rejoinder, well, if it is reasonable, and someone has at least two brain cells and does not include any throat cut gestures, go for it. This is all supposed to be fun. Right?
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When they have two hakas (e.g. Samoa v. NZ) don't they perform it together? I'm sure I've seen something like that, with 30 crazed south pacific monsters ending up right in each others faces. That's quite fun.
And #18... "levitate"?!
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For goodness sake, can we retain just some sense of tradition and spectacle. The Haka is a fantastic spectacle and something that opposing teams should just face in a resolute manner. What better way to respond to the Haka than to crunch in to the first tackle and shake the bones of the first All Black that gets the ball. This is how Rugby people should respond; not with bleating and whinging. By the way I am English with no connection to New Zealand, other than a love for their incredible brand of Rugby. SUMO.
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I think the haka is just an easy target and critising it ignores the real problem, which is why the Northern Hemisphere is (to put it bluntly) so much worse at rugby than the Southern Hemisphere.
It is not as if we are playing a different sport, and in terms of conditioning and training, any gap has long since been eliminated (note the ready transfer of coaches between Hemispheres).
However, this World Cup has clearly shown that a significant "something" remains outwith the possession of the teams of the Six Nations.
I am certainly not in a position to propose what that is, but I would argue that it is mental rather than physical.
It is widely accepted that most teams (especially in Northern Hemisphere) afford the ABs too much respect and often have lost the match before they realise they might be worthy of more. I think much of that comes down to the lack of passion in the game up here compared to what is so evident in a lusty rendition of the haka.
Although, the players and the coaches will no doubt deny this, I think rugby is still viewed as a social pursuit here (even by those paid to play it). Players aren't held accountable in the way that they are in the Southern Hemisphere. Coaches are happy to judge (and be judged) in terms of "performances" rather than results.
Everything seems so very incremental, rather than the very binary win/lose scenario that sport actually entails.
The ABs clearly see the haka as a key component in their winning mentality, and it is about time that those in the North found their own "haka" and redressed the imbalance that currently exists (and has forever existed) in World Rugby.
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Oooh, a tricky one. This is where rugby starts to tread on the toes of national politics.
First off, I'm a Welshman who's going to move to NZ in a few months - I have family there and many, many friends. I am also, politically, of a slight liberal slant (the reason I tell you that will become clear)
The Haka that everyone knows, Ka Mate, is not a challenge, but a celebration of life over death composed by Te Rauparaha, and dates back to about 1810.
The one everyone got in a tizz about is Kapa o Pango, and is a modern composition. In other words, it has little real heritage, and was written including the lines 'Silver Fern / All Blacks! / Silver Fern / All Blacks!'
The reason that is is politically charged is that NZ culture is essentially a dichotomy, such as you see nowhere else. I love the place dearly, next to my own beautiful Cymru, but it has some strange quirks.
For instance, bi-lingual government websites do not make up for the fact that Maori descendents still make up the bottom rung of the NZ social ladder. As I said, I'm left liberal, but there is a great amount of overly liberal handwringing in NZ.
Yes, it could be worse, but what you get, at least to my eyes, is an overly patronising situation whereby the whites (Pākehā) appropriate sections of Maori culture and then congratulate themselves on their integration.
For instance - to play for the NZ Maori team (and even this rule is not hard and fast) you have to be 1/16th Maori. (The 1/16th rule stands in other parts of public life too, by the way). By that rationale, I could play international rugby for Wales, England, Ireland, Germany and Scotland, and that's just me.
So you see - a loaded argument. I don't want to see the haka done away with, but it also irritates me that they get a little precious about it from time to time. After all, it is just a dance.
I personally think it'd be worthwhile having Max Boyce doing a striptease whilst they're doing it, but that's just me :)
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Isn't the answer, to appease both sides, to do the Haka before the National anthems?
1. The crowd get to see their spectacle
2. The tradition is maintained
3. The All Blacks don't get that psychological advantage immediately prior to kick off
Don't get rid of it, but start all international games straight after the hymns by advancing the dancing
(Ahem)
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Many people have pointed out that the principle of equality would work to England's disadvantage because we would have to respond to the haka with morris dancing.
I know England rugby supporters have every right to feel defeatist, but let's not be too quick to conclude that when it comes to dancing we have nothing acceptable to offer either.
I believe the floral dance is very old. But, if that's not to all tastes, what about the Lambeth Walk? Fairly traditional, I'd say. Or, perhaps not as old but certainly traditional at weddings ... the still-popular "twist".
I think we could even make a case for that unnamed, undefined, self-conscious shuffle with occasional random arm movement that most Englishmen have done at night clubs for the past few decades.
More recently, the famous David Brent dance is haka-like in certain respects and might worry the All Blacks.
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How many more times will people who have no idea post comments about something they know nothing about? If they took the time to watch a match between NZ and Samoa, or NZ vs Tonga, or Samoa vs Tonga, or vs Fiji, they would see an extrememly appropriate response to a Haka - another one. DONE AT THE SAME TIME. Ok, so other teams don't have one - I would love it if the Celtic Nations came up with something from their long and proud history that they felt represented them and their past and future, people and culture. That would be spectacular I'm sure.
The Welsh last year decided to try and sing their anthem twice? What's that about? If they want to, of course they can, but an appropriate response to the Haka would have been singing it directly at the face of the All Blacks as they did the Haka - by choosing to effectively try and upstage the Haka is of course going to cause offense because it is a deliberate slap in the face akin to insulting your own family members to you. Bad example, but the only one I could think of.
The English are a little stuck though as they only seem to have Morris Dancers available to them to represent them. Bad luck!!
To those who feel that the Haka or others like it have no place in professional sport, they are free to go and watch soccer.
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Nice work Andrew - I couldn't agree more.
Now, I'm as much a traditionalist as the next man and I reckon this sort of thing adds colour, soul and spectacle to sport, which is, after all, supposed to be entertainment.
And having been lucky enough to report from the New Zealand v Tonga game in Bristol at the 1999 World Cup, there's no doubt the hairs on the back of my neck sprang to attention as 30 giants performed a war dance simultaneously.
Seeing and hearing it live, in a small ground - what a buzz!
But I can't help thinking that these days the All Blacks (mainly, but you'd have to include Tonga, Samoa, Fiji if you were ever to do anything about it) get a massive psychological boost from it, while the other side is expected to stand there politely and take it.
That's like giving Tiger Woods a couple of shots head start.
Sure, part of sport is about mental strength and being able to phase out any "gamesmanship" by the opposition, but this doesn't seem very fair.
And I agree with all those who brought up the "new" Haka argument or said that until relatively recently most of the side didn't know the first thing about it. Kind of quashes the "tradition" line then, doesn't it!
So maybe we need a compromise. Maybe it should come before the anthems.
I'd hate to see it go. But then I'd hate to think the All Blacks need any more help to win this World Cup.
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The Haka is a Maori tradition, it was traditionally done before battle, hence why it has been adopted by New Zealand sports teams. It is important to preform overseas as it is calling to the ancestors to help and watch over the battle.
There is no 'one' Haka with different iwi and hapu (tribes and sub-tribes) having their own, however,the traditional All Blacks Haka is the most famous and well known.
I am sorry that so many of you feel hard done by watching the Haka and think it gives NZ an unfair advantage but think of it this way it exerts a lot of energy, therefore the All Blacks are actually playing a slightly longer game than the opposite team, and secondly it is a popular spectacle.
If nothing else, the Haka should stay in respect to the Maori culture of New Zealand. Finally, given New Zealand has one of the least inspiring anthems ever we need the Haka.
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We should just show it up for what it is... perhaps the english boys could do some morris dancing while they do it, the irish a quick jig... We shouldn't dignify it by bothering to watch let them prance about if they want but they shouldn't get special treatment.
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Have to say that the haka makes watching the ABs a special occasion but I think that opposite teams should front up or encircle them to psyche them out. Why single out the ABs, what about 'Irelands Call'???
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Well said Andrew! All of these dances/challenges should be done in the dressing room or during the warm up if it means so much to the All Blacks and the Pacific Islanders. It's a modern professional game and the Haka and its cousins are a relic of a bygone quaint era. Get shot of them and get over it. The only fun to be had is watching these burly he-men from NZ spit the dummy out if anyone 'disrespects' their war dance. Willie Anderson had the right idea in 1989! But that's all past, bin it and stop crying.
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What a lot of fuss about nothing. That is what it is after all.
I was under the impression that Rugby was a tough game played by tough men. If you are scared off by a little arm waving, grunting and tongue showing how will you have the nerve to actually tackle your opponent?
I am really indifferent to the Haka especially the version performed by the AB. I have watched a "traditional" Haka while on holiday in NZ and it was far more intimidating than what you see on the Rugby field.
If the AB feels that they must keep this then why not allow others to respond or are they afraid of being intimidated. Personally I would like to see Scotland bring on some pipers to deafen their opponents; it may give them a better chance of actually winning something.
But really this is all a big fuss over nothing. AB, dry your eyes and get on with life!
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Yeah, get rid of it. Why should NZ (or any other team) get special treatment? Same treatment for all please. What's hard to understand about that?
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Are we all so far behind the All Blacks that the only way we can get back at them is to whine about the Haka???
Why not try and beat them on the field, now thats a novel idea, dont you think?
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The Haka is traditional. Doing a Haka doesn't just apply to rugby as many sports people from New Zealand chose to do it. The basketball team does I know that not sure about others though. Its part of our tradition and nobody can deny its part of the rugby tradition.
No one complained about it when we lost the last four world cups did they? It didn't help us much then.
We have no problems with replies, in Australia they sing waltzing matilida during the haka, its their choice.
And to prove we don't do it just to get the "upper hand" when wales didn't want us doing it we did it in the changing rooms, it is a part of the players to do it for themselves.
The day the haka is gone we will all truly know rugby have lost its uniqueness, and become something like soccer, American football, or baseball. Super commercialized, overly professional, and more importantly BORING.
But from the standard of play of northern hemisphere teams this year maybe that is what they want.
Rugby is the important thing, the 8 minutes on the field. Forget about everything around it.
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As a Brit living in NZ, I believe that both sides of the argument have value. The Haka is a great way to challenge the opposition, so then why don't the other teams reply in kind? I would love to see England do the Morris Dance, the Scots doing the Gay Gordon, the Irish with Riverdance, the Argentines with the Tango perhaps, and so on...
What is really annoying, is that the ABs get to do 2 songs and a dance - after all their anthem is the same song sung twice, once in English and once in Maori. It is bad enough listening to that bloody awful 'God Save the Queen' - who is after all also the Queen of NZ, Oz, Wales, Scotland and part of Ireland! Change the English anthem, allow every team to do a 'cultural heritage' piece and cut out the 2nd songs - especially that twit who walks round singing 'Waltzing Matilda'!
As for Jason, mate, I have found Kiwis to be some of the most arrogant people ever - I should know, I married one :-)
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The Haka!
Does it give an advantage to the AB's,or does it encourage their opponents (who ever they are)
to try even harder to beat them?
We comment on this "because" it is the AB's!
Would we even bother if was (and no disrespect intended) Portugal?
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What a lot of fuss about nothing. That is what it is after all.
I was under the impression that Rugby was a tough game played by tough men. If you are scared off by a little arm waving, grunting and tongue showing how will you have the nerve to actually tackle your opponent?
I am really indifferent to the Haka especially the version performed by the AB. I have watched a "traditional" Haka while on holiday in NZ and it was far more intimidating than what you see on the Rugby field.
If the AB feels that they must keep this then why not allow others to respond or are they afraid of being intimidated. Personally I would like to see Scotland bring on some pipers to deafen their opponents; it may give them a better chance of actually winning something.
But really this is all a big fuss over nothing. AB, dry your eyes and get on with life!
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Are we all so far behind the All Blacks that the only way we can get back at them is to whine about the Haka???
Why not try and beat them on the field, now thats a novel idea, dont you think?
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hmmmm....interesting comments...would like too know how many have been posted by whinging bloody poms, i mean if the queen wnats to come and shake the players hands prior to a match i bet you would all be happy to see it. Rugby as a sport is just taking on a greater world audience, and lets face it people its not from Johnny Wilkinson kicking drop goals to win matches, it is a result of the style of rugby that the all blacks play and the culture they bring to the sport. I ask you would you be complaining if your beloved England weren not playing like a third devision team from New Zealand. Prisoners of Modern Britain stop yah whinging and enjoy some of the greatest rugby ever seen and also the culture that is rugby and the world cup.
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When the Brits get rid of the royal family we will consider stopping the Haka. Then again the Haka is an older and prouder tradition, so we'll keep it even when the Royals are finally dismissed. The correct response to the Haka is to extend your pakeha tongue out toward the ground in front of your opponents and prepare to get your backsides whipped!!
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Let the Haka continue, it is part of the International game and a sight to behold.
But answer me this.....why do the English team use 'God Save the Queen' as their National Anthem. It is not , it is a British national anthem hijacked by the English. Let them derive their own and let them not steal our collective nations anthem. I leave the room when this is played for the English team, it is an insult to the anthem.
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I dont think the haka should be banned, it's one of the things you look forward too when watching NZ.
I do agree however that teams should be aloud to retaliate, morris dancing is far scarier then the haka. The irish could do river dancing, the welsh some sort of sheep herding, and the scottish can wear their kilts and do what we're all thinking.......
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The haka has been performed by the All Blacks for as long as they have been playing rugby. It's an accepted tradition. As many have already pointed out the watching crowds have been disappointed when it hasn't been allowed. I love it and proud to be a kiwi when I see it. I'm obviously biased.
I don't have any problems with opposing teams performing their own (short) dance/ritual/etc if that would help them prepare for the game.
However, I suspect a lot of the negative noise about this is driven by jealousy. Where is the same noise about the other pacific island teams routines?
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Bored of the Haka, bored of the insulted kiwis. What ever happened to the Haka of the 80's when they stood in a semi circle? Now it looks like a terrace of football fans with little or no form.
Shut up, get on with playing, lose to Australia, then go home and mope.
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The main arguement here is "do the AB's get an added advantage if they are allowed an extra anthem - traditional or not!" The answer has to be yes, even if the advantage is very slight.
The next question then has to be "so what do we do? Stop it or allow a right of reply ......and then there's who should go first?"
I have to say that watching Tonga and Samoa doing there own versions at their match in the RWC almost seemed like watching pantomime. So maybe the answer should be to stop it all together.
However, whilst rather enjoying the idea of the traditional Scottish reply involving the raising of kilts, personally, as an Englishman I long for the day when an English team replies to the Hakka by the entire team clenching their right fist and raising it in a fierce upward jesture until the bicep hits the left hand's downturned palm, whilst politely shouting "Up Yours!!!!"
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The last time the pre-kick off challenge issue was discussed by the IRB, prior to the last world cup it was suggested that nations such as Fiji, Samoa and Tonga should be prevented from performing their challenges. This was because the haka they perform do not actually exist in their cultures and they have been put together specifically with Rugby in mind. I believe they definitely made the right choice in keeping them. In my view the traditional performance of kamate prior to kick off is as sacred as when the Maori battalion performed it prior to going over the top in Cassino. You obviously wrote this blog to get a reaction and yes we are precious about it in NZ, but you obviously have no idea how patriotic and galvanised haka makes us feel in NZ. It might be a new phenomenon as some point out but wouldn't England like something more than a slave song introducd in 1988 when they finally broke their try drought of 2 and half years. Take it away, ban it if you will. We will still do it in the dressing room ... The world will just be a poorer place.
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I have read the threads with interest, and noted the points on both sides and have found myself falling down on the anti-haka brigade.
I should then hasten to add my reasons why, which are three fold;
There are the traditionalists who believe that the all blacks have been doing it for so long that the precedent has already been set, so there. Absolutely right, we all want to see the haka, but as has been rightly pointed out, there is nothing to stop them doing it before the anthems, or doing it within a circle.
Then there are those who insist on the historical/colonial factor, that the Kiwis have the right due to the past. This is rugby, not football, the spirit of rugby has it's origins in amateur sport. It has honour, dignity and respect. The haka has all three elements in itself when viewed in isolation, but when done in front of the opposition loses some of all three. The argument also loses its impact when one realises that the all blacks weren't the first to perform the haka.
The final reason is that, as has been pointed out, why shouldn't the English resort to Morris dancers, the Irish to Lord of the Dance style routines, the Scots a Braveheart ensemble complete with traditional sword (the name of which escapes me). In fact, why not wheel out the Gullotine when the French play?
The absurdity of the above suggestions is deliberate, I for one don't one to see the game descend into an America eye-candy fest.
The haka IS an important part of the game, but performed before the kick off is (however minor, as I believe it is) an unfair pyschological advantage and thus against the true spirit of the game.
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What a ridiculous world we live in! People using political correctness to outhwart the political correctness behind the tradition of the Haka. Who cares if the have the last say and outdo the opposition on the prematch festivities.
Although the Haka may not traditionally be meant as a challenge it has taken that role in world rugby. I'd much rather England, or whoever is playing against them, responded by winning the game than with a teary eyed rendition of God save the queen from Lawrence Dallaglio.
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The biggest issue I have with the Haka is just how precious the kiwi's have become about it, and more so in the past 3 or 4 years. its almost like some sort of catholic ceremony now, where your mother tells you off if you talk during mass.
For a call to battle, they seem very scared to let anyone respond to it. If anyone does anything against it, they moan for days afterwads about it being disrespectful. You can't ignore it a la Italy at the start of the rwc, you can't face it down because thats disrespectful. It is apparently more important than the home teams own anthem,fair play to wales for forcing them to do it in the changing room. What exactly are you supposed to do while they are prancing around in what has become a giant ad for adidas. O'Driscoll dropped a fern leaf in response following some bad advise and they were so angry they tried to insert him in the ground like a flag pole during the lions.
At least the aussies have a bit of a laugh when you watch rugby with them; kiwis are just becoming like that frigid maiden aunt that never lets you have any fun whenever they are around.
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Tradition is no absolute justification for anything. We are lead to believe female genital mutilation is traditional; doesn't make it right. I'm glad to see so many comments criticizing the AB's and many New Zealanders' arrogant attitude towards the haka. About time.
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Well like all things in life( with the exception of English rugby) .The haka has "evolved."Thats why it isnt what it was years ago.Its been changed,analysed,made better.Perhaps if English rugby had undergone the same process,then perhaps it wouldnt look like the throwback that it is.
Take out the haka and then whats left? Boring anthems. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz."God save the queen".zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. The haka adds to the pagentry which rugby has.And lets not forget that most of the pacific nations have their own version of the haka.Clearly you have no understanding of the sentiments of these nations and their perfoming of it.If the haka is banned then so should the singing "Swing low,sweet chariot".Id like to see that happen.NH is grasping at straws at the moment.And if further confirmation is needed about the popularity of the haka.look no further than USA.THey love it
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I have read the threads with interest, and noted the points on both sides and have found myself falling down on the anti-haka brigade.
I should then hasten to add my reasons why, which are three fold;
There are the traditionalists who believe that the all blacks have been doing it for so long that the precedent has already been set, so there. Absolutely right, we all want to see the haka, but as has been rightly pointed out, there is nothing to stop them doing it before the anthems, or doing it within a circle. Or, hey, before the spectators..
Then there are those who insist on the historical/colonial factor, that the Kiwis have the right due to the past. This is rugby, not football, the spirit of rugby has it's origins in amateur sport. It has honour, dignity and respect. The haka has all three elements in itself when viewed in isolation, but when done in front of the opposition loses some of all three. The argument also loses its impact when one realises that the all blacks weren't the first to perform the haka.
The final reason is that, as has been pointed out, why shouldn't the English resort to Morris dancers, the Irish to Lord of the Dance style routines, the Scots a Braveheart ensemble complete with traditional sword (the name of which escapes me). In fact, why not wheel out the Gullotine when the French play?
The absurdity of the above suggestions is deliberate, I for one don't one to see the game descend into an America eye-candy fest.
The haka IS an important part of the game, but performed before the kick off is (however minor, as I believe it is) an unfair pyschological advantage and thus against the true spirit of the game.
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Remember when Willie Anderson walked some of the Irish team into the middle of it at Landsdowne Road - it didn't go down too well
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Let the Haka stay, it was around on the rugby field long before any one of us were alive. The Haka may have changed lately but that does not mean it's not "traditional"..many years ago the All Blacks did a very comical Haka that was preformed facing the crowd with the blokes laughing as they did it-didn't seem to bother anyone then.
Scotland showed up in an away style strip against the All Blacks..does this suggest it was a home game for the All Blacks?...if so then let the host do their thing....if not then let your guests do their own thing as well.
World cup year and the scotish team turn up with some no hopers...shame on you scotland. Show some gut's and get stuck in. Your failure to field your best against a truely testing side was more disgusting then any song and dance.
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Let the Haka stay, it was around on the rugby field long before any one of us were alive. The Haka may have changed lately but that does not mean it's not "traditional"..many years ago the All Blacks did a very comical Haka that was preformed facing the crowd with the blokes laughing as they did it-didn't seem to bother anyone then.
Scotland showed up in an away style strip against the All Blacks..does this suggest it was a home game for the All Blacks?...if so then let the host do their thing....if not then let your guests do their own thing as well.
World cup year and the scotish team turn up with some no hopers...shame on you scotland. Show some gut's and get stuck in. Your failure to field your best against a truely testing side was more disgusting then any song and dance.
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Tradition is no absolute justification for anything. We are lead to believe female genital mutilation is traditional; doesn't make it right. I'm glad to see so many comments criticizing the AB's and many New Zealanders' arrogant attitude towards the haka. About time.
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If they want to perform the Haka, then fine. But to demand that other teams dont reply and "respect" it is petulance in the extreme. The Haka today is simply a marketing gimmick, performed mostly by Fijians/Tongans and white European heritage players, completely negating the point of showing of NZ Maori culture, think Tim Westwood on the rugby field...
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I am not a Kiwi but lived there for many years, even played rugby there decades ago. I get a kick out of the haka, but I always cringe when Kiwis and AB fans get precious about it, especially in someone else's ground. The Wales face-off was probably the good result -- If you can't be even-handed about it on the pitch, i.e. accept a response to your challenge, then do it in the changing room. If AB fans miss it, then they can petition the NZRFU and the Maori experts to come up with an even-handed solution. But the idea that NZ should have the one-and-only say is puerile.
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There is actually a little-known 'Welsh haka' - no doubt some careful googling will produce a video clip...
Personally i love the haka, although i can see the argument against it. I guess i just like the way it's become a tradition and as a neutral it does stir the blood.
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If you cant face a challenge on the pitch from any pacific nation then you may as well pack your bags and go home. Haka or no Haka, the result will be the same, complaining about it just makes you look like bad sports.
I notice there were no complaints about the Haka at the last world cup? Perhaps thats because you actually played rugby?
Dry your eyes nancy boys.
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I love the Haka. But I honestly believe it should be that OR the anthem and they should perform it in place of the anthem, whether that is first or second.
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Haka......kids love it !
I say let it be. The all blacks are so sensitive over it, if a team were to demand a retort NZ would probably walk off the pitch.
I would just like to see a team walk into the middle of them and eye ball their opposite numbers until it all kicks off.
As for morris dancing they need not - England are already shocking the world with their lack of rugby skills........
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Who are you exactly? The Haka has been around for years and is an integral part of the game and attracts interest from those who might not normally watch rugby. A very misguided piece of writing.
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Like all rugby fans I grew up with and loved watching the Haka.
None of what I said was prompted by the fact that 'We can't beat the All Blacks on the pitch so let's have a go at The Haka' My country has never beaten New Zealand and I have always been full of total admiration for the way they play the game (and jealousy for the talents of Ali Williams and his Scottish parentage.)I am certainly not deluded enough to think that if New Zealand didn't get the psychological lift of doing it just before kick-off then suddenly other sides might be able to beat them. But any psychological edge, no matter how small, should not be allowed. That's why home sides get to have their anthem second. In that respect, every game for The All Blacks is a home game.
So my problems are firstly the timing of it - immediately before kick-off.
Secondly the fact that the New Zealand side can be so sensitive as to be offended by the manner in which some opposing teams have chosen to meet it.
And thirdly, that they can start doing a new version of the Haka. If the defence is tradition (and that's a good defence - tradition is wonderful in rugby and sport as a whole)then how can you change it?
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Who are you exactly? The Haka has been around for years and is an integral part of the game and attracts interest from those who might not normally watch rugby. A very misguided piece of writing.
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ban it? NO!!! but give every country the right to reply - yes!
its a magnificent spectacle when Samoa, Tonga, Fiji or New Zealand meet in the World Cup with both countries having their war dances before kick-off. surley Scotland (along with other nations) could find something equally inspiring before games? (so long as it aint embarrasing)
what really anoys me though is the fact that all the pacific nations are allowed their war dances - yet rumour is that last time round the IRB denied scotland the right to have our national anthem played on an instument that is as much - if not more - a part of scotland as the haka is new zealand. and the result is, well, terible! no disrepect to whoever recorded our anthem for the WC, im sure they are great musicians, but it just doesnt sound right played by a brass band. So while New Zealand perform their haka before every game - scotland arent even allowed to have our anthem played the way we like it? a disgraceful example of double standards by the IRB.
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In response to the English national anthem - at least it's over with quickly and we don't have several droning verses. Personally I'd rather hear Jerusalem as it's much more stiring.
Perhaps in response to the Haka we should form two lines of men, one stood, one kneeling, wait for them to finish and 'shoot' them with our 'muskets'? That was traditional too! ;-)
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Leave the HAKA ALONE, its tradition, and a pleasure to watch unlike the rugby crap us brits seem to flap on about and as for that glass player wilkinson who falls down injured everytime anybody so much as looks in his diretion and its a game of rugby not soccer ,the object is to score tries not kicking goals like beckham. from an Englishman whose ticked right off with EXCUSES for trying to take any enjoyment out of this beautiful game,if the English teams did a haka it would most probibly be THE HOKEY COKEY.
LEAVE IT ALONE and all the other hakas as well there BRILLIANT
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RE KiwiMark no 56
You should practise what you preach my friend about history. You may well be clued up about yours, but it does not sound like you know much about Europe at the start of the Twentieth century, or what little you do know is about England, and think this applies to the whole of the Northern Hemisphere.
Anyway, to correct you from a Welsh point of view, I dont think you would have found too many "Victorian or Edwardian Middle Class" coal miners, steelworkers or farmers in the South Wales valleys at that time.
Not very good at playing rugby now we may be, but we were never Middle Class Elitist Snobs as you ignorantly say.
Regards
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The HAKA was ok when you only saw NZ once a year on tele but now the novelty has gone out of it.
Give it up.
And while we are at it start introducing the Football rules - if you require medical attention - you ahve to leave the field until the referee allows you back on!
If there is a scrum or a lineout and a hooker or prop is off the field then it is a free kick to the opposition!
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Its up to the other nations to come up with a proper response rather than moaning about it. if the kiwis want to waste energy dancing let them. the haka is throwing down a challenge and that's it. there is no advantage in it. it could even work against them because it could inspire the other team to take it up. Don't ignore it embrace it, teams that try and pretend its not happening end up looking stupid and the blade of grass thing was "thinking too much" about it. didn't that backfire spectacularly?? its basically up to the rest to pick up the gauntlet and stuff it back up them, stop moaning!
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Well being an NZder it’s more a national sense of pride than the anthem for a lot of true sport people. I think you need to take your head out of your ass stop being manipulated from your media. The Haka is a challenge to your opponent and honestly I think most NZders and players would rather see a challenge back the only people who think that is disrespectful are you and your media. Ozie challenges it by forming a line a singing walsing matilda. If you want to disrespect it on the field do it, but all you do is motivate the team to annihilate you even more and show that you just ballsed out and how much fear you have in playing the All Blacks to start with.
There would be no psychological effect if you didn’t fear them to start with and what kind of bullshit argument is that you should be maxed out on psychological effect as soon as you take the field you’re playing for your country dam it. Don’t NH people have any pride? When I’ve put on the black shirt on for others sports I feel 10 feet tall and couldn’t feel any more amped and ready to go.
The anti Haka brigade is just trying to hide the true reason from themselves why their side is not winning. At the moment the IRB shouldn’t be reducing the world cup down to 16 teams, it should be 4 teams and give the final token spot to a playoff between pumas and the winner of the 6N to make up numbers.
THE ALL BLACKS DON”T WIN BECAUSE OF THE HAKA. The win because they are simply far better team than NH teams and until NH stop denying that and can get it through their heads they need to improve or they will continue to be cannon fodder 9/10 games they play.
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For all the "indignant down under" brigade, who have started talking down to the "ignorant of the haka's value (cultural or otherwise)" debaters, nobody has suggested it should be banned, so chill.
The game of rugby itself should be above all this, hence the debate that it should be performed in a different setting. The debate has been around since the World Cup started, regardless of who won every four years.
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Just for a little bit of perspective...
Does anyone remember the game between Wales and New Zealand a few years ago? The All-Blacks "allowed" the Welsh is sing their anthem last. However, it turned out later that they felt it had just been a favour. When the Welsh planned to do the same at the next match (both of these games where in Wales), the All-Blacks declined to do the haka on the basis that if they did not get their own way and perform it last, they would not do it.
What gives the All-Blacks the right to perform the haka just before kick-off? Absolutely nothing. The home team should have the chance to sing their anthem/perform their dance just before kick-off. That would be much fairer.
I personally feel the haka should be scrapped. The cultural heritage line is rubbish (not performing the haka is hardly a slight to the culture of the Maori) and I find the haka boring repetitive and cringe-worthy. However I do accept others feel differently.
My main problem is the fact that because no-one has stood up to them before, the New Zealand team bosses feel they have the god-given right to perform last. That is plainly false. Keep the haka, but don't make it so sacrosanct.
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Well being an NZder it’s more a national sense of pride than the anthem for a lot of true sport people. I think you need to take your head out of your ass stop being manipulated from your media. The Haka is a challenge to your opponent and honestly I think most NZders and players would rather see a challenge back the only people who think that is disrespectful are you and your media. Ozie challenges it by forming a line a singing walsing matilda. If you want to disrespect it on the field do it, but all you do is motivate the team to annihilate you even more and show that you just ballsed out and how much fear you have in playing the All Blacks to start with.
There would be no psychological effect if you didn’t fear them to start with and what kind of bullshit argument is that you should be maxed out on psychological effect as soon as you take the field you’re playing for your country dam it. Don’t NH people have any pride? When I’ve put on the black shirt on for others sports I feel 10 feet tall and couldn’t feel any more amped and ready to go.
The anti Haka brigade is just trying to hide the true reason from themselves why their side is not winning. At the moment the IRB shouldn’t be reducing the world cup down to 16 teams, it should be 4 teams and give the final token spot to a playoff between pumas and the winner of the 6N to make up numbers.
THE ALL BLACKS DON”T WIN BECAUSE OF THE HAKA. The win because they are simply far better team than NH teams and until NH stop denying that and can get it through their heads they need to improve or they will continue to be cannon fodder 9/10 games they play.
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to see a white european descendent performing The Haka for the AB's is simply embarrassing. That Williams guy (the lock) goes way over the top and looks simply ridiculous and foolish. Its a maori war challenge for gods sake not a disco dance for posh NZ boys from Auckland. Watch the Kiwis League team (all direct maori descendents) do the Haka - that is quality as opposed to dan carter looking all 'im hard'!! Ridiculous!! Its a pity that everytime the BBC show edited highlights of the Kiwis on Grandstand they rather conveniently edit out The Haka from the programme as though it remains the exclusive property of the posh white boys from auckland!! Give us a break.
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Tonga, Fiji, Samoa all do haka, you don't seem too concerned at them! The reason you don't like it is that the All Blacks beat you so badly 99 times out of 100 and you think this adds to the edge. What rubbish. Other teams should take inspiration from it and use it, its a challenge! In New Zealand school teams perform a haka before the game. I still remember mine and it makes me feel proud. Its part of our culture.
You don't like it when your teams get mulched.
GO BLACK! KIA KAHA!!
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In response to the English national anthem - at least it's over with quickly and we don't have several droning verses. Personally I'd rather hear Jerusalem as it's much more stiring.
Perhaps in response to the Haka we should form two lines of men, one stood, one kneeling, wait for them to finish and 'shoot' them with our 'muskets'? That was traditional too! ;-)
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In 2005 I think that the welsh responded to the Haka by singing Guide Me O Thou Great Redeemer. Personally I thought that it was a fitting response being the vocal equivalent in welsh rugby. The song has an iconic staus amongst the fans and it was well received...
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The response of any team faced with the AB Haka should be to shoot 3 of them out of hand thus making the game more even; with the possibility of an upset more likely but not guaranteed!
Haka or no Haka is just so much tosh.
Concentrating on beating them over 80 mins is far more important.
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OK, here it is...
22 Englishmen line up in formation. Tap their feet twice and clap.
Tap their feet twice and clap.
Boom-Boom-Clap
Boom-Boom-Clap
WE WILL, WE WILL, ROCK YOU!!
WE WILL, WE WILL, ROCK YOU!!
i know you're singing it ;);)
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Sorry fellas, but serious questions have to be asked if people who are intimidated by the Haka are being selected to play rugby for their country.
Next thing you'll be telling me that international rugby players will wet themselves and jump to one side just because the other fellas are wearing black jerseys and have a bit of a reputation.
Oh, wait.......
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Guys...some of the comments on here are silly imo. "repungent throat slitting"? Get over yourself. The Haka is one of the spectacles of rugby and to see it go would be a sad day for world rugby. As mentioned, no one complains about Tonga's version, or the other pacific islands.
Get over yourselves and just enjoy it!
And Andrew Cotter, you wasted your time and money on a childish whine :)
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Personally I love the Haka. I'm a Scot, watched the game, felt proud of the performance and think the performed well given the fact that everything in NZ focuses on the national game of Rugby.
That aside, personally I wouldn't want to face a Haka at any point before a game. If I was captaining an opposing team I would say just tot off to the other end of the pitch and ignore it. Pass the ball around among yourselves. It's not disrespectful not to face it in the same way as it is not disrespectful to perform it. It's all about the rugby on the field of play and simply doing what you think it good preparation for it.
just my tuppence worth!
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Well, I'm not hacked off with the Haka. But must say its the McDonald's of the Rugby Haka World. I love to see the true grit and honesty shown by Fiji, Tonga and Samoa when they perform theirs before the game. But the All Blacks has more of a brand name, organisation and a fake professional feel to it I find it pointless. Before I get slated by Nzers. I understand the spiritual, and traditional values of the Haka.
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Like all rugby fans I grew up with and loved watching the Haka.
None of what I said was prompted by the fact that 'We can't beat the All Blacks on the pitch so let's have a go at The Haka' My country has never beaten New Zealand and I have always been full of total admiration for the way they play the game (and jealousy for the talents of Ali Williams and his Scottish parentage.)I am certainly not deluded enough to think that if New Zealand didn't get the psychological lift of doing it just before kick-off then suddenly other sides might be able to beat them. But any psychological edge, no matter how small, should not be allowed. That's why home sides get to have their anthem second. In that respect, every game for The All Blacks is a home game.
So my problems are firstly the timing of it - immediately before kick-off.
Secondly the fact that the New Zealand side can be so sensitive as to be offended by the manner in which some opposing teams have chosen to meet it.
And thirdly, that they can start doing a new version of the Haka. If the defence is tradition (and that's a good defence - tradition is wonderful in rugby and sport as a whole)then how can you change it?
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If the kiwis (and those from seemingly any other island within 1,000 miles who constitute a significant proportion of their team) want to prance around before a game, that's fine - it hasn't helped them for the last 20 years has it?
What I do object to is their childish, petulant demands that the whole world "respects" them. Grow up guys. You play great rugby, and acting like a bunch of over-sensitive infants who feel that the World Cup is theirs by right just demeans you. Dish it out, but can't take it - sort it out!
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Whether or not it provides an advantage is surely down to how the side 'facing' the Haka reacts? You have to allow yourself to be intimidated remember, and I don't believe that any of the players in RWC are up for that.
It's a challenge, plain & simple - face up to it, use it to fire yourself up and prove a point. And if you're not up to it, then why are you on the pitch?
I'd have given a b0llock to be out there and face up to the Haka delivered with the sort of passion the AB's give it nowadays.
Keep it going - it was the highlight of Sunday's 'spectacle'!
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Well being an NZder it’s more a national sense of pride than the anthem for a lot of true sport people. I think you need to take your head out of your ass stop being manipulated from your media. The Haka is a challenge to your opponent and honestly I think most NZders and players would rather see a challenge back the only people who think that is disrespectful are you and your media. Ozie challenges it by forming a line a singing walsing matilda. If you want to disrespect it on the field do it, but all you do is motivate the team to annihilate you even more and show that you just balls out and how much fear you have in playing the All Blacks to start with.
There would be no psychological effect if you didn’t fear them to start with and what kind of bullshit argument is that you should be maxed out on psychological effect as soon as you take the field you’re playing for your country dam it. Don’t NH people have any pride? When I’ve put on the black shirt on for others sports I feel 10 feet tall and couldn’t feel any more amped and ready to go.
The anti Haka brigade is just trying to hide the true reason from themselves why their side is not winning. At the moment the IRB shouldn’t be reducing the world cup down to 16 teams, it should be 4 teams and give the final token spot to a playoff between pumas and the winner of the 6N to make up numbers.
THE ALL BLACKS DON”T WIN BECAUSE OF THE HAKA. The win because they are simply far better team than NH teams and until NH stop denying that and can get it through their heads they need to improve or they will continue to be cannon fodder 9/10 games they play.
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The Haka should stay after the anthems as it always has its a tradition that should never end!!
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I am an Englishman who has lived in NZ for 20 odd years and who has the greatest respect for NZ rugby. The fact that there is now some controversy over the performance of the Haka should not detract from the fact that, compared to other nations, NZ have maintained a consistently magnificent standard of rugby throughout the years.
As regards the Haka, my view is that it should be seen as part of the drama of the international stage. Yes, the Kiwis do get very precious when other teams don't give it the respect they feel it deserves, but that is because they feel that disrepect to the Haka means disrepect to the All Blacks themselves.
You can have great fun here in NZ by bagging the Haka and the All Blacks (in jest) and then standing by and watching as this normally wonderfully easygoing and friendly people turn into one-eyed fanatics. They take their rugby very, very seriously indeed here.
Kiwis should lighten up about other teams' reactions to the Haka and if everyone else wants to get in on the act then fine. Let England perform the Anglo-Saxon Death Chant of Maldon or Scotland bare their essentials. It all adds to the drama.
But should the Haka be banned ? Definitely not, just seen as part of the game.
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Sorry fellas, but serious questions have to be asked if people who are intimidated by the Haka are being selected to play rugby for their country.
Next thing you'll be telling me that international rugby players will wet themselves and jump to one side just because the other fellas are wearing black jerseys and have a bit of a reputation.
Oh, wait.......
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1) If your team can't face the challenge of the haka they clearly can't face the challenge of the AB's. Deal with it and harden up!
2) Facing the haka is probably as uplifting as doing it. Don't whinge like a bunch of little girls, embrace it, face the All Blacks and tell them to bring it on. Ours is not a gentle game. Are you men or boys?
3) With all your complaining why is it that so much of the media coverage of the world cup is the men in black and their little dance??
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Re comment 52, Declan,
In your view what exactly is a New Zealander? Are they a certain race or colour.
NZ is not the largely white bastion that many ignorant Europeans believe. Don't judge us by your own standards.
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Guys...some of the comments on here are silly imo. "repungent throat slitting"? Get over yourself. The Haka is one of the spectacles of rugby and to see it go would be a sad day for world rugby. As mentioned, no one complains about Tonga's version, or the other pacific islands.
Get over yourselves and just enjoy it!
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The daft thing is that the Haka is supposed to be a Maori challeng but a large percentage of the New Zealand rugby team are of European descent,what right do they have to peform this ritual anyway???
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The Haka should stay after the anthems as it always has its a tradition that should never end!!
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The haka is part of the new zealand culture, much like the other island nations. Its not New Zealands fault that other countries do not take there heritage seriously, i'm sure that if someone like australia fully welcomed the aboriginal culture before all the convicts came that they too would have a version of a challenge, maybe more countries too.
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I am disappointed to see that this issue of the Haka has raised it's ugly head again.
Yes I am a kiwi and as such I have been brought up with the Haka. Arguements that because the Haka has changed it is no longer traditional are laughable. The essense of the Haka is that it is a challenge it doesn't matter what form it comes in. The NZ Haka has become part of what rugby is........many not rugby followers may watch a game to see the Haka and that can't be a bad thing.
Lastly and probably my main point, many of this columns readers mention the unfair pyschological advantage the AB's get by performing it before the game.....My answer is simply this....If you think that you need to do a dance to get fired up and motivated to play for your country in a test match....then you shouldn't be playing for your country.......
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Couldn't agree more. Yes the Haka is a great spectacle, but why should another team dictate anything at Murryfield, the millenium stadium, or indeed any stadium that is not their own.
The Welsh not allowing the Haka was great, it's time other nations stood up to the AB's and told them where to shove the Haka. Bring back the days of the Irish marching into the centre of the Haka as it's getting performed, the Welsh belting out the anthem at full voice.
Yes the AB's are the best team in the world and we should respect the so called traditional Haka, although having seen it performed before the era of Buck and the mid 80's team, it was nothing but a little show, part of the entertainment, which the players themsleves seemed embarressed to perform, check out any of the you tube footage. So this passionate 'tradition' is all rubbish. let the AB's perform it at home last and let them bow to their hosts wishes while touring.
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There is nothing wrong or beneficial about the HAKA, i was recently at an event where Sean Fitzpatrick spoke about the origins of this and it was more about preparing for battle rather than a challenge, regardless if it has been changed it is still a rugby tradition and not just a NZ thing, perhaps it should stay and the stuffy folks should GO?
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I think you need to go away and do some proper research about what a haka means, which is what you probably should have done before you wrote this article. There has never been one haka, there are many, and they can be created so your point about tradition is ignorant and wrong.
Also the other team can respond to the challenge - surely you have watched NZ play Samoa before, since you are such an authority on the game. But singing a song is not a challenge and neither is singing an anthem - its an anthem! So do your response then - there's no problem.
There is an accepted way to face the haka, but if you chose to ignore that then so be it, and all the better to NZ - do you understand what that means if you do that Mr Authority?
And once again there is a lot of comment above about NZ being made up of many different cultures - correct it is! Go away and do some research about the current make up of NZ society and the forces of immigration at play in that part of the world, then write your comments on here. Ignorance - and a large chip on most of your shoulders. Do you here NZ complaining that 13 of the Samoan team were born in NZ but are now playing for Samoa?
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Dear Dale -Comment 89
I have to argue with your claim that the All Blacks “systematically poaching of island talent for the All Blacks”.
You site
Rokocoko
Sivivatu
Collins
Masoe
Toeava
So’oialo
Lauaki
Sivivatu’s family moved to New Zealand in his teens, the rest all came when they were about 5 years old. I’ve stated this else where on this site but it is worth repeating because you must have missed it.
The New Zealand Rugby Union does not have the uncanny foresight to spot an All Black at the age of 5, which is about the age these players were moved to New Zealand by their families. Nobody has that level of foresight.
Please stop insulting these men by saying, in effect; that they are not “New Zealander” enough to play for the All Blacks. They are naturalised New Zealanders. Their families moved to New Zealand, they grew up in New Zealand, and these players have achieved the hard fought for position of being able to play for New Zealand, in the black jersey, through their dedication and talent.
Scotland has 12 foreign born players: Dan Parks (Australia), Nathan Hines (Australia), John Barclay (Hong Kong) and seven English: Craig Smith, Gavin Kerr, Andrew Henderson, Rob Dewey, Simon Webster, Hugo Southwell, and Jim Hamilton. Would you waste your time claiming Scotland poaches players, or these players aren’t Scottish enough? I didn’t think so.
And as for the Haka: there is a traditional response available to teams put out by the All Black performance of the Haka, out-play them! Of course this would involve the “home countries” being committed to out-playing a Southern Hemisphere team, which is something they seem utterly unwilling to do so far in this competition no matter what the cost.
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Oh come on - remember the semi final in `91 of Scotland vs the ABs? (Or maybe it was the 3rd place play-off - could someone enlighten me?) Anyway, John Jeffrey just grinned at them all the way through it as though he was enjoying a bit of pantomime, didn't look remotely intimidated.
Though I do think they should perform it before the anthems - a bit of "Gwlad gwlad..." would be a nice reply for example.
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The haka is part of the new zealand culture, much like the other island nations. Its not New Zealands fault that other countries do not take there heritage seriously, i'm sure that if someone like australia fully welcomed the aboriginal culture before all the convicts came that they too would have a version of a challenge, maybe more countries too.
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The haka is part of the new zealand culture, much like the other island nations. Its not New Zealands fault that other countries do not take there heritage seriously, i'm sure that if someone like australia fully welcomed the aboriginal culture before all the convicts came that they too would have a version of a challenge, maybe more countries too.
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Glasshouses and stones, Dale (89), Glasshouses and stones...
Where do H Paul, P Freshwater, M Stevens, S Abbot hail from? Somewhere in the Home Counties? I think not...
While Sivivatu is indeed a recent arrival to NZ, the others spent most of their childhoods in NZ and as immigrants and naturalised citizens have the right to play for NZ.
It's odd how this "poaching" debate only refers to players who're not Causcasian. I don't recall a fuss over Steve Devine playing for the All Blacks when, IMO, he had no right to, having represented an Australian side.
As for the Haka- it adds something to the atmosphere but I agree with the majority of posters: NZers have no right to be precious about it when other countries have no similar tradition.
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Maybe it should just be assumed that the Sipi Tau, Siva Tau and Cibi all fall under what he's complaining about instead of failing to address the basic premise of his argument by introducing strawmen about how the blog is motivated by jealousy.
Any claims of "culture" are quite frankly ludicrous, yes it's a cultural icon, but it is not one that belongs to white European descendants who worked so hard to marginalize the Maori in modern New Zealand society.
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I have no issues with the Haka as a spectacle I just wish the All Blacks would stop being so damn precious about it. Press reports about teams ‘disrespecting’it quite frankly bore me. The Haka suffered near fatal injuries for me last autumn when the AB’s sold their ‘challenge’ to sky before the Welsh game cos boo hoo the Welsh wanted them to do it before the anthems. And died a death, when they ‘sold’ it to addidas for commercial gain.
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The Kiwis are all direct Maori descendents? What a load of bollocks, much like a lot of the other comments on this blog. I'm Scottish and I absolutely loved seeing the Haka at Murrayfield. This point has been made repeatedly but nobody whines about the Pacific nations' hakas nor do you hear the opposition league teams complain about the Kiwis haka. When the ABs or the Pacific teams play each other the hakas are performed simultaneously and the spectacle is twice as impressive. Most of the fuss about the haka is created by media that have nothing better to write about or are trying to avoid discussing the dismal state of 6 nations rugby at present (barring France every few games). And besides, noone has ever tried to stop other teams responding to the Haka (ie the Aussies singing Waltzing Matilda which is just ridiculous but their choice) apart from in Wales, which stemmed from the belief that the anthems and the haka are two different rituals...agree or disagree with that but the whole thing is blown up by irresponsible and poorly informed journos.
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What I don't understand is, why is NZ's culture more important than any other? Let them keep their Haka if they will, but let other teams decide what they want to do, without interference from NZ' whiners.
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I love the Haka. But I honestly believe it should be that OR the anthem and they should perform it in place of the anthem, whether that is first or second.
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Have been surprised how few AB comments there have been to this. For me there are 2 very clear points:
- the haka should stay and be challenged
- I would consider the loss of any body part to be a small price to pay to see another great RWC tradition continue - that of the AB's choking and watching another nation lift the world cup.
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Ban the Haka totally, whether the odious All Blacks or any other South Sea nation - it is an inappropriate, offensive piece of gamesmanship, and a war cry has no place on a field of sporting endeavour. Let the New Zealanders play the game without cheating too.
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I'm thoroughly sick of the Haka and all the preciousness (is that a word) around it, get rid of it. Sing the national anthems and then straight into the game.
And before anyone gets on my case, I'm a kiwi & part maori.
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What a lot of whingeing uninformed posters you have here! There are far too many points to correct, but a few easy ones:
1. The haka (the generic term for a Maori challenge) is the tradition being spoken of, not the particular haka of Te Rauparaha which is performed much more frequently than the recent Kapa O Pango haka written specifically for the All Blacks.
2. The NZ league team (The Kiwis) comprises New Zealanders of many ethnic backgrounds, not all "direct Maori descendants" as stated by "darran mather".
3. If an opposing team wants to disregard the haka then they are perfectly entitled to do so, it is the media that beats up the "disrespect the haka" story afterwards. SA and Australian teams regularly keep their tracksuits on while observing the haka, personally I think they are disrespecting their own Jersey in that case.
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As a Rugby fan I love the NZ Haka and believe it should continue, however I believe this 'Traditional Challange' gives the AB an edge.
I would like to see the teams be able to cross over the half way line and stare down there respective AB opposite number as once England did.
This would lead to a much more intense game!
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does anyone seriously believe that the haka gives the all blacks an advantage? i mean surely a team of professional rugby players, who know all about the haka and have mostly faced it before are going to be completely unfazed by it, perhaps even fired up by it themselves. the all blacks always beat everyone because their style of play (offloads, support play and sheer strength) is streets ahead of anyone else, its not to do with the haka. its almost like saying teams get scared by the opposition anthems! its a bit of entertainment to introduce the game, dont take it so seriously!
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People are going on about the Haka being traditional. Well rugby was traditionally an amateur sport, but is now professional. Times change, and I have seen the future!! CHEERLEADERS!! They could do the Haka with their pom poms, Riverdance for Ireland and the can can for France, that way nobody is frightened by 15 men sticking their tongues out, and the players get to see pretty girls prancing in front of them, maybe it would get the blood flowing. God knows Ireland needs something different to the dirge that is Ireland's Call
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I like the Haka (as indeed I enjoy the "War dances" of the Pacific island nations) and think it should be kept as a tradition of the pre-match ceremonies. But how to respond? Wales a few years back decided to meet the challenge by having an opera singer belt out a hymn (a very Welsh solution). I have no problem with this myself, but we missed an opportunity. Lets meet it next time with the Welsh team belting out "Bread of Heaven" dressed in full national cotume - stove hat and all!!
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Good blog is one that generates so much response - This is a genuine question - so the many Kiwis who have responded in this thread with such aggressive words, please dont get upset - Do NZ league teams both do a Haka before league and cup games? - Just interested - if it is a warrior tradition before a battle, it would seem logical to conclude that each team would have their own version. My opinion is it is fine to keep it - any opposition professional rugby player worth his salt would take inspiration from it.
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Forget the Haka why do New Zealand have a team made up of players from around the southern seas?
Shouldn't they be forced to change from being New Zealand to a South Seas island team?
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NZ might not always rule world rugby but it seems they always want to run world rugby. Even the RWC logo with the stripey rugby ball bears quite some resemblance to the silver fern.
I have no beef with NZ as a nation or its people. However I do have a problem with the haka - and no it's nothing to do with the NZ-argument that other countries might use it as an 'excuse' for getting resoundingly beaten. The fact that the original haka is no longer performed and it has become far more aggressive in the pro-era, plus the fact it is no longer a novelty, probably weakens the case for keeping it.
Congratulations to Mr Cotter for putting over his opinion which many of us have agreed with. I too dislike the haka (and indeed any of the other pre-match routines from FIJ, TGA and SAM). Why should some countries always get indulged whilst others are expected to just keep quiet and reluctantly smile and politely clap these rituals?
Why do they still get indulged in this day and age? Because NZ always want to run rugby and the petty jealousies of the old five nations towards one another means that we are never able to stand in unison and challenge them at IRB level.
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Mark Nordhoff Comment 134.
It is good that you question how the All Blacks have the right to perform the Haka. It is not a matter of what families the players spring from, but rather how the performers respect the Haka.
All members of the All Blacks can publicly perform the Haka, as the traditional performance of either Haka before a match is considered a worthy use of the dance. The All Blacks for their part, are simply custodians of the Haka, and must in their performance not disrespect the Haka. This obligation not to disrespect the Haka is the reason it is performed just prior to the beginning of the game, as that is the traditionally appropriate time for its performance.
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Speaking,as an ex pat Englishman
who has lived in NZ for about 25 years,i'm sick of the sight of the bloody thing, as one man famously said you get a Haka at the opening of a public convienience over here.
Chris
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The same old chestnut aye?!?! Every year you poms have a whinge about the haka. Despite the cultural considerations which I will not get into here the haka is great for rugby. It is unique and would diminish the sport in theyes of many neutrals/non-rugby people. Just get over it and do your talking on the field. Extra advantage etc etc, what a load of rubbish!
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It makes me laugh to see non Maori or Islander males with their pale skin, small tongues and squinty eyes trying to fit in with their Indigenous mates in chanting a war taunt that was originally aimed at them. Leave it in I say, it's fun but please zoom in on the 'all whites' when they pull faces.
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Sorry but I disagree!
It isn't political correctness talking here, just good manners. The Haka is a tradition of New Zealand. If the South Africans wanted to Zulu dance before their games, people, particularly the BBC, would be falling overthemselves to accomadate them.
The haka is awesome sight, and as for the AB's having the upper hand after performing it. I also dont agree. After watching the Haka, I am so pumped I would like nothing more than to smash Jerry Collins, or Chris Jack or whatever All Black that got in the way (I played scrum half by the way). The Haka, for me, is just as useful as it is for the AB's.
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Alot of the people complaining about the haka come across as very bitter. Your team (whichever that is)probably isn't performing well and you want to express anger at this fact. You should concentrate on the things that would improve your teams performance. Getting rid of the haka, or making the All Blacks perform it before the home sides anthem, will not make your team any better.
And to the writer of the blog. If you're going to write something like this, I would suggest you not do so just after your team has been on the receiving end of a humiliating 40-0 drubbing by a lack-lustre All Black team. It would look less like sour grapes.