England ratings v SA (339)
- 14 Sep 07, 10:12 PM
I was at the Stade de France on Friday as England's World Cup campaign was blown to smithereens by a dominant South Africa, who crushed the defending world champions 36-0.
Here's how I rated the individual England players' performances. See what you think and let us know what you made of the performance.
Jason Robinson – Bravura display on his return to full-back. Safe under the high ball, a threat when attacking from deep, one run past four Springboks a reminder of his best days. Pulled hamstring ended his night, but a deserved ovation as he departed. 8
Josh Lewsey – Solid in defence, getting up quickly on Habana, one try-saving tackle on Jaque Fourie stopped further damage in the first half. Little opportunity in attack, and resigned kick into touch late on betrayed his despair at the situation. 6
Jamie Noon – Worked tirelessly in defence, making his fair share of tackles, but hardly had the ball in his hands as it rarely strayed beyond Catt and Farrell until the last quarter. 5
Andy Farrell – One kick charged down but otherwise solid with kicking from hand; ran hard but could not conjure space for those around him. Didn’t have a single chance to show his goalkicking prowess, the subject of so much debate beforehand. 5
Paul Sackey – Got little change out of JP Pietersen, opting to cut back inside on the few occasions he had the ball. Looked hesitant in his running, and not wholly convincing in defence either. 4
Mike Catt – Hasn’t played at 10 in a Test since 1999 and struggled badly. Kicking from hand lacked depth and accuracy, missed several kicks to touch and a straightforward drop-goal attempt when it was 10-0. 4
Shaun Perry – Disappointing. Missed vital tackle on Pietersen in build-up to Boks’ opening try, kicked one out on the full, a couple of loose passes, and did not provide the control at the base of the scrum required. Replaced by Gomarsall at half-time. 3
Andrew Sheridan – Appeared to be imposing himself over Botha at scrum-time, helping win several free-kicks from the Boks, but rarely seen with the ball in hand until a charge in the final quarter. 5
Mark Regan – Tried to vary his throwing at the line-out to avoid the Boks predators, but it was a struggle when he went short or long, resorting to safe option in middle. Toiled manfully but replaced by Chuter before the hour. 5
Matt Stevens – Held his own at scrum-time against Os du Randt, and expended plenty of energy defending round the fringes. Blotted his copybook by conceding a needless penalty at a ruck, which was duly punished by Montgomery. 6
Simon Shaw – A reliable source of possession at the line-out, and put in his fair share of tackles, but unable to make much headway against a dominant Springboks pack. 5
Ben Kay – Got through a pile of work, keeping the line-out functioning reasonably well until the end, but was turned over in possession before Pietersen’s try, and why he opted to try a chip kick when five metres from the line, only he knows. 5
Martin Corry – Toiled manfully as always, making plenty of tackles and taking the ball up when he could, but must have been a dispiriting experience for a proud warrior on his return to the captaincy. 5
Tom Rees – A major learning experience for the 22-year-old, who was powerless to influence proceedings against a dominant Springboks back-row, totally overshadowed by the peerless Juan Smith. Replaced by Moody after 53 minutes. 4
Nick Easter – Grew into the game after a shaky start at the base of the scrum, making yards with a few powerful charges, ploughing through Montgomery on one occasion. But not enough ball on the front foot to work with. 6
Replacements:
George Chuter – Replaced Regan for the last quarter, and put Ben Kay through a gap with one delightful offload. Solid at the set-piece. 6
Perry Freshwater – Only on for Sheridan for the last three minutes.
Steve Borthwick – Came on for Shaw as the last rites were being delivered.
Lewis Moody – Sent on after 53 minutes to try to stem the tide around the fringes but had little impact on proceedings. 5
Andy Gomarsall – Came on at half-time and scragged a couple of times in possession. Tried to keep his forwards going but a thankless task. 5
Peter Richards – Replaced Jamie Noon for a three-minute run-out in his old centre position.
Mathew Tait – Came on for the unfortunate Jason Robinson at full-back, and tried to provide a bit of spark, but kicking game doesn’t look up to the position. 4
Bryn Palmer is the BBC Sport website’s rugby union editor.
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How you can give any of those players higher than a 5 is beyond me. I take it the 8 for Robinson is a poor consolation for getting injured! Another lifeless performance from an England team with no ideas. But who didn't see this coming? Is anybody actually shocked by this result, other than the fact that South Africa could have probably put 50+ on the board against us.
When we get knocked out of the WC by Samoa, I have a gut feeling that things wont change come the Six Nations in 2008.
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England failed to score a single point yet only 4 starting players scored less then 5????????????
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No offence man, since I'm a Scot, but you guys just got murdered. How can you be handing out 5s and 6s? The English guy in the pub on 5-live said it - 'we were lucky to get nil'. The Boks missed enough opportunities to score 60. I think you need to drop at least one point of every score - or how can you rate the Boks? They couldn't all get 10.
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I think that all of the england sxcores are a little high. Robinson was good and unluckly on the hamstring. Shaun Perry's england days should be over agter another appaling performance. but i think the worst person (or people) out there today were the england management. from tyhe beginning, after winning the world cup things were wrong and hopefully today they will finally realise. its time for out with the old and in with the new. after the worls cup england should get rid of all the oap's and start with a fresh young team to build for the next worldcup bewcause this one is over and england has been shamed.
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Way, way too generous......not one of them deserved over 4.....a bad mix of has-beens and never-will-bes, and a frankly embarrassing attempt at defending a World Cup.
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The scores are fair. Picking them apart would be unfair on the players and Ashton who've simply played the hand they were dealt. I lay the blame for the causes of this debacle squarely at the door of the RFU for failing to build on RWC '03. Well played SA. Some hard work required before Samoa. Let's hope the wounded World Champions still have some pride left to play for before they are eventually put out out of their misery. Swing low sweet chariot..
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With the exception possibly of Robinson, I think the ratings are excessively generous in almost every case.
Froggie.
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What a mess! As I started the ball rolling after the last fiasco, thought I'd do it again here...
These scores are too generous. OK so the Springboks look well drilled and have some flair in key positions but England currently have no game plan. We still persist in slow recycled ball, kick badly and too frequently and never get over the gain line. Too often turned over or beaten to the 2nd or third phase.
We need creativity... with a none-too-mobile pack, we need fast ball to decisive runners... I said move Lewsey to fall back, before, now I scream it! He brings solid tackling and links well with the 3/4s. Let Ceuto loose on the wing, where he will run straight, get Sackey off - he's out of his depth, and where was the pace? - and allow Tait a chance at outside centre.
We need the strength of Gormasall linking with the quick thinking of Jonny. I'm still uncertain on inside centre... entertain me!
the forwards... i agree with the TV pundits, get rid of Corry, he's always been too slow for the modern international, bring in Moody with Easter and Rees. And can we have Brian Moore back at hooker?
Hey, we're not going past a qtr final now, so lets see some more dynamic play from the youngsters we have taken. Make the changes England!
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When are England going to move on and when can we see the back of Brian Ashton. Today's performance was a disgrace. Wake up.
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This should come as no surprise. After last saturdays appaling debacle against USA iit was always going to happen.
Now blood the next generation for four years time which is what we should have been doing at this world cup. Its almoat too late again.
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Shame about Robinson's injury. England's best player by miles. Apart from him, the England backs had the cutting edge of a rolling pin.
Can't comment on the forwards. Can't say I noticed them outside of the scrum.
By the way, why did the ref only play advantage for South Africa? Don't accuse me of England bias - I'm Welsh.
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No quible with the scores or comment. To do so would be unfair to th players and Ashton who've simply played the hand they were dealt. I aportion blame for the gap between the 2 sides squarley at the door of the RFU who missed a chance to build on the success of RWC '03. Well played SA. Let's hope the champions have something left in the tank to restore some pride against Samoa before they are eventually put out of their misery. Swing low sweet chariot..
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I agree with the majority of the ratings but was pretty disappointed with Kay and Mark Regan for the lineout shambles. Overall the pack didn't compete in any facet the with 'Boks and with slow ball available and Perry's diabolical decision making it was impossible to gauge whether anybody was up to it from 10 to 13... Sackey looked very shaky in defence...
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Some very generous awards above.How very sad.
How would Sackey get a 4? Was he really as useful as Tom rees???
We should consider the repercussions when we see the result against Samoa.
The last 20 minutes looked like a training game of the probables against the very unlikely.
This is no different than the games against Ireland or Wales in the Six nations.So many players just should not have been there and many of them weren't!
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I feel we need to change our attitude off the pitch. WE ARE STILL WORLD CHAMPIONS, let every other team we play know this. If we go down, we go down fighting!! Reproduce the same kind of energy and intensity in which we had 4/5 years ago. We have fine players in our squad, winners.
Before the moans and groans come, keep the faith!!!
This is the team i would play!
SHERIDAN FR
CHUTER H
STEVENS FR
KAY SR
CORRY SR
REES F
MOODY F
DALAGLIO 8
GOMARSALL SH
WILKO FH CAPTAIN
BARKLEY IC
FARRELL OC
TAIT W
LEWSEY W
ROBINSON FB
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Whitewashed and deservedly so. May have done better against a slow lady's hockey team, but not certain about that. Needs a thorough overhaul of players in all positions, but most of all needs new coach and captain. As a captain Martin Cory is not up to the job and as a coach and manager I wouldn't let Brian Ashton near a school team.
World Champions, not for long. I don't give this lot much chance against Samoa.
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To give Paul Sackey 4 points is excessively generous, I believe. He continually got sucked inside, giving Pietersen more than enough space to make his dangerous runs. Sackey's tackling was atrocious, as were his hesisant runs, which totally lacked conviction or confidence. Why was he not brought off? 2 points, more like it.
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I think you are being kind to Andy Farrell - I have never seen such 'brain dead' kicking from an England player. Why contine to kick long when time after time the Boks returned the ball deep into our own 22. Shaun Perry was also way out of his depth, and exposed by a great scrum half. The game against Samoa looks very 'loseable'!
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I'm surprised with your Andy Farrell score. I think that, because I am feeling generous, I would award him 2.
Jason Robinson was the only player who deserved any plaudits, as most of the rest were dire.
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Whitewashed and deservedly so. Need to go away and learn how to play rugby again.
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Hey this is how it is. England had to deliver, commeth the hour and minute, they failed.
Billed as a big confrontational game, it was all but won before a ball had been kicked.
The gameplan was simple by the south africans. Put high balls up, keep England pined in their own territory and they'll crack.
The battle of the minds and hearts was not present. The south africans were cool, calm, collected, clinical.
The english forwards neither penetrated the boks half, nor caused any serious concerns and certainly conceeded a woeful number of penalties.
You don't win games being in the wrong half and you don't play catch up rugby from your own half. England didn't threaten and only in the second half did they threaten, but when the game was lost. No this wasn't the jona lomu onslaught faced in South Africa, more the south africans starved and stole possession time and again, leaving England desperate and undecided when they had the ball.
Where was the fight, where was team dynamic. For all the talk of the england football team having to deliver, they talked the talk and walked the walk. Sadly, the england rugby team and fans have a long walk home, wondering how from being on top of the world to 4 years later being nothing, nobody contenders ? ?
forget injuries, on the best day, we put out our best team and there is no excuse for the discusting and woeful performance given. They should just come home now rather than face another humiliating defeat.
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England failed to score a single point yet only 4 players scored less then 5????????????
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Way, way too generous......not one of them deserved over 4.....a bad mix of has-beens and never-will-bes, and a frankly embarrassing attempt at defending a World Cup.
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The scores are fair. Picking them apart would be unfair on the players and Ashton who've simply played the hand they were dealt. I lay the blame for the causes of this debacle squarely at the door of the RFU for failing to build on RWC '03. Well played SA. Some hard work required before Samoa. Let's hope the wounded World Champions still have some pride left to play for before they are eventually put out out of their misery. Swing high sweet low..
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Pretty much agree with you. Was looking forward to Farrell playing 10/12, but seemed to me that apart from one decent kick, he was in league mode and thought he had all the time in the world to kick when he really didn't. Robinson by far the brightest spark, and this from a guy who's retiring. From my short -term memory, cannot think of a forward actually running on to the ball on the burst (nor a back for that matter). Where's the creativity, the quick ball, the surprises? We have to get used to the fact that we are solid second-third division in international rugby at the moment; we are one of those teams we used to brush aside with ease four years ago. World-beaters we are not.
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What can you say. SA were immense. The team gave their all and literlly sweated blood but they were outclassed, outfought, and outthought. I wonder if any other world cup holders have ever been soundly thrashed like this. The only Englishman who looked of real pedigree, (until his sad and career ending injury), was JR. He of no fixed abode.
I read an interview with Martin Johnson recently and he said that whle the English team was preparing for the immediate problems in front of them he would have thought that there was someone who was looking at the overall situation and preparing the next group of replacements. Clearly their wasn't and now the words back and drawing board come to mind!!
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Way, way too generous......not one of them deserved over 4.....a bad mix of has-beens and never-will-bes, and a frankly embarrassing attempt at defending a World Cup.
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This is the most disappointing game that I have ever seen in a world cup match involving England.
Mike Catt was bereft of ideas, Andy Farrell is not good enough to play at international level. The forwards were a complete disaster from the kick off. There was no leadership whatsever. The only person to come out of the game with any credit was Jason Robinson, who probably will not play again. The England management should make drastic changes before England play Samoa and not pick players on reputation.
I am Welsh but I am geniunely concerned that English International rugby is in meltdown mode.
Western Samoa will be very close if this performance is anything to go by.
Second rows kicking when 15 metres from the line, nobody supporting the player jumping for the high ball. Every kickoff and evry drop out being kicked down the centre of the field and immeadiaetly either run or kicked back with interest.
Absolutely shocking, I hope we are not as half bad Saturday or we will concede 60 points.
Get a grip England you cannot be as bad as this again.
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I think these ratings are very generous. They give an average of 5 per player - which would mean that England were ok, when in fact they were terrible.
Then again, perhaps the individual scores are right. That would mean the team is less than the sum of its parts or - which is probably the same thing - the coach's rating was a very large negative number.
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The scores are fair. Picking them apart would be unfair on the players and Ashton who've simply played the hand they were dealt. I lay the blame for the causes of this debacle squarely at the door of the RFU for failing to build on RWC '03. Well played SA. Some hard work required before Samoa. Let's hope the wounded World Champions still have some pride left to play for before they are eventually put out out of their misery. Swing low sweet chariot..
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Brian Ashton - 1
Woeful selection - woeful performance.
Perry surely was a 2 - looked totally and uterly out of his depth.
farrel and Catt - tally ineffectual with no pace
Noon - why was he playing?
robinson - what a blinder - I actually had tears in my eyes when he left the pitch - under the circumstances his greatest performance since the first Lions game 2001.
the decision to replace Moody with Ree said it all - I thought Rees has a pretty good game
I really wished James SD, Geraty, Flood, Cipriani, Tait, Flood, Haskell and even Varndell were around. What a disapointment. Still I'm off to France next week to see the Samoea game and it has more significance now
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Brian Ashton - 1
Woeful selection - woeful performance.
Perry surely was a 2 - looked totally and uterly out of his depth.
farrel and Catt - tally ineffectual with no pace
Noon - why was he playing?
robinson - what a blinder - I actually had tears in my eyes when he left the pitch - under the circumstances his greatest performance since the first Lions game 2001.
the decision to replace Moody with Ree said it all - I thought Rees has a pretty good game
I really wished James SD, Geraty, Flood, Cipriani, Tait, Flood, Haskell and even Varndell were around. What a disapointment. Still I'm off to France next week to see the Samoea game and it has more significance now
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As a Welshwoman not unhappy to see England lose!
Can't comment on the ratings - watched the game in a pub in Cardiff, but it was spoilt by a dodgy satellite somewhere and the picture was more broken up than Brian Ashton's heart probably is!
Hope (no, sure!) Wales can put up a better show against Oz tomorrow....
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With the exception of Robinson, your ratings actually suggest that England had other players on the park. Sorry that was worse than against the US. Absolutley abysmal.
Whatever Ashton does (I guess ritual Sepuku is out of order) he needs to find a spark of genius from somewhere or else the Samoans will roll them as well and to be honest I don't think that squad has it especially with the sad sight of Robinson limping off.
I think if I was a Samoan fan I'd be extending my hotel bookings.
I'd also like to say that if that is Jason Robinson's last game, I'd like to thanks him for the pleasure he's given this rugby fan(A Scots one at that)over the years, He is one of the best the sport has ever seen.
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To give Paul Sackey 4 points is excessively generous, I believe. He continually got drew inside, giving Pietersen more than enough space to make his dangerous runs. Sackey's tackling was atrocious, as were his hesitant runs, which totally lacked conviction or confidence. Why was he not brought off? 2 points, more like it.
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This is the most disappointing game that I have ever seen in a world cup match involving England.
Mike Catt was bereft of ideas, Andy Farrell is not good enough to play at international level. The forwards were a complete disaster from the kick off. There was no leadership whatsever. The only person to come out of the game with any credit was Jason Robinson, who probably will not play again. The England management should make drastic changes before England play Samoa and not pick players on reputation.
I am Welsh but I am geniunely concerned that English International rugby is in meltdown mode.
Western Samoa will be very close if this performance is anything to go by.
Second rows kicking when 15 metres from the line, nobody supporting the player jumping for the high ball. Every kickoff and evry drop out being kicked down the centre of the field and immeadiaetly either run or kicked back with interest.
Absolutely shocking, I hope we are not as half bad Saturday or we will concede 60 points.
Get a grip England you cannot be as bad as this again. Embarrising and I am a Welshman.
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This is the most disappointing game that I have ever seen in a world cup match involving England.
Mike Catt was bereft of ideas, Andy Farrell is not good enough to play at international level. The forwards were a complete disaster from the kick off. There was no leadership whatsever. The only person to come out of the game with any credit was Jason Robinson, who probably will not play again. The England management should make drastic changes before England play Samoa and not pick players on reputation.
I am Welsh but I am geniunely concerned that English International rugby is in meltdown mode.
Western Samoa will be very close if this performance is anything to go by.
Second rows kicking when 15 metres from the line, nobody supporting the player jumping for the high ball. Every kickoff and evry drop out being kicked down the centre of the field and immeadiaetly either run or kicked back with interest.
Absolutely shocking, I hope we are not as half bad Saturday or we will concede 60 points.
Get a grip England you cannot be as bad as this again. Embarrising and I am a Welshman.
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No quible with the scores or comment. To do so would be unfair to th players and Ashton who've simply played the hand they were dealt. I aportion blame for the gap between the 2 sides squarley at the door of the RFU who missed a chance to build on the success of RWC '03. Well played SA. Let's hope the champions have something left in the tank to restore some pride against Samoa before they are eventually put out of their misery. Swing low sweet chariot..
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What a beating
-2 for Farrell, you was terribl
Really 3 is too much for Perry
+1 for each of the front row.
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It is hard to see where England go from here.
They will call for replacements for (at least) Jason Robinson.
But there is so little spark, so little creativity and so little confidence. It's a big ask against Samoa and the Pacific Islanders could well end our World Cup.
But credit to the Boks - they played a very good game of rugby and soundly beat us without getting out of 3rd gear.
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I agree with the majority of the ratings but was pretty disappointed with Kay and Mark Regan for the lineout shambles. Overall the pack didn't compete in any facet the with 'Boks and with slow ball available and Perry's diabolical decision making it was impossible to gauge whether anybody was up to it from 10 to 13... Sackey looked very shaky in defence...
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This should come as no surprise. After last saturdays appaling debacle against USA iit was always going to happen.
Now blood the next generation for four years time which is what we should have been doing at this world cup. Its almoat too late again.
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Somebody needs to tell Andy Farrell that he’s playing Union now, not League. Every kick-off (and he had plenty of those) he kicked deep – as in League – and not once did he kick to a position where his forwards had a chance of retrieving the ball. Can’t blame him for all of England ’s woes, they were pretty useless before he was paid a fortune to come south but things won’t improve whilst they insist on kicking away possession!
Roger Cromwell
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Jason Robinson - big hand- reminder of what England were capable of a while back!
But, doesn't matter what the individual scores were - they got thumped. Time for the 'old farts' and team chairmans to think about how to sort this out. Let's face it, the RFU aren't going to make any money out of shirt sales any time soon!
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I feel we need to change our attitude off the pitch. WE ARE STILL WORLD CHAMPIONS, let every other team we play know this. If we go down, we go down fighting!! Reproduce the same kind of energy and intensity in which we had 4/5 years ago. We have fine players in our squad, winners.
Before the moans and groans come, keep the faith!!!
This is the team i would play!
SHERIDAN FR
CHUTER H
STEVENS FR
KAY SR
CORRY SR
REES F
MOODY F
DALAGLIO 8
GOMARSALL SH
WILKO FH CAPTAIN
BARKLEY IC
FARRELL OC
TAIT W
LEWSEY W
ROBINSON FB
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Way too nice for that display, I'd only salvage Jason Robinson, the only player who appeared to try and win the game, the other 14 had lost as soon as they got off the bus!!
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...well, what can you say to that? that was about as comprehensive as it gets! If I said this anywhere near the England camp even now I'd probably deservedly get shot down, but maybe we should CUT OUR LOSSES, throw the game vs Samoa (or just "play to our full potential" like today, the outcome would be the same) and look forward to the 6 nations, where excuses of needing an experienced side won't limit us to putting out a side with only one or two people able to make a line break, run a supporting line, or, god forbid, make an offload in the tackle to keep the ball moving. Let's just finally all get on the same page and realise this was never going to go the way of the optimistic English fan. There is no light at the end of this WC (what an appropriate acronym for English fans eh?) tunnel, but there could be a silver lining to the experience. I'm guessing that a few players that played in this campaign will feature again (those who are south of the 30yr border) and will use this result as much as all the others to mount a comeback over the next few years.
Time to look forward and cut our losses, I say. On the plus side,we should be able to overcome any hangover from this worldcup right quick... we SHOULD be able to...
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I feel we need to change our attitude off the pitch. WE ARE STILL WORLD CHAMPIONS, let every other team we play know this. If we go down, we go down fighting!! Reproduce the same kind of energy and intensity in which we had 4/5 years ago. We have fine players in our squad, winners.
Before the moans and groans come, keep the faith!!!
This is the team i would play!
SHERIDAN FR
CHUTER H
STEVENS FR
KAY SR
CORRY SR
REES F
MOODY F
DALAGLIO 8
GOMARSALL SH
WILKO FH CAPTAIN
BARKLEY IC
FARRELL OC
TAIT W
LEWSEY W
ROBINSON FB
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Pretty much agree with you. Was looking forward to Farrell playing 10/12, but seemed to me that apart from one decent kick, he was in league mode and thought he had all the time in the world to kick when he really didn't. Robinson by far the brightest spark, and this from a guy who's retiring. From my short -term memory, cannot think of a forward actually running on to the ball on the burst (nor a back for that matter). Where's the creativity, the quick ball, the surprises? We have to get used to the fact that we are solid second-third division in international rugby at the moment; we are one of those teams we used to brush aside with ease four years ago. World-beaters we are not.
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Hard to argue with this unfortunately - I've never been impressed with Perry at scrum half but tonight he was non-existent...
All the old problems of slow ball excaberated by the lack of confidence England showed with ball in hand. On this form I wonder if we can qualify from the group!
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How can you give rees a 4? he was hung out to dry by the backrow selection - easter and corry never got to the break down in time to help him. We'd have been better off replacing corry with moody.
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Whitewashed and deservedly so. Need to go away and learn how to play rugby again.
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The players must have been listening to the ITV commentary: almost sufficient excuse for such a dispirited, unintelligent display.
Eighty minutes of ignorance, errors and misunderstanding from the commercial channel: please will the BBC put some decent cash into their bid for the next tournament and spare us this unprofessional rubbish.
South Africa played pretty well.
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Pretty much agree with you. Was looking forward to Farrell playing 10/12, but seemed to me that apart from one decent kick, he was in league mode and thought he had all the time in the world to kick when he really didn't. Robinson by far the brightest spark, and this from a guy who's retiring. From my short -term memory, cannot think of a forward actually running on to the ball on the burst (nor a back for that matter). Where's the creativity, the quick ball, the surprises? We have to get used to the fact that we are solid second-third division in international rugby at the moment; we are one of those teams we used to brush aside with ease four years ago. World-beaters we are not.
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To give Paul Sackey 4 points is excessively generous, I believe. He continually got sucked inside, giving Pietersen more than enough space to make his dangerous runs. Sackey's tackling was atrocious, as were his hesisant runs, which totally lacked conviction or confidence. Why was he not brought off? 2 points, more like it.
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A total embarrasment , Robinson an 8 , the rest 1 each , 4 and 5 way to generous a rating !!!
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Who is responsible for this debacle? Who allowed a seriously under prepared English national side enter the World Cup? What I saw tonight was embarassing. Did the powers that be sit back on the sucess of our World Cup win four years ago assuming the game would not move on? The game in the Southern Hemisphere is phenominal, did no one see this development?
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Brian Ashton - 1
Woeful selection - woeful performance.
Perry surely was a 2 - looked totally and uterly out of his depth.
farrel and Catt - tally ineffectual with no pace
Noon - why was he playing?
robinson - what a blinder - I actually had tears in my eyes when he left the pitch - under the circumstances his greatest performance since the first Lions game 2001.
the decision to replace Moody with Ree said it all - I thought Rees has a pretty good game
I really wished James SD, Geraty, Flood, Cipriani, Tait, Flood, Haskell and even Varndell were around. What a disapointment. Still I'm off to France next week to see the Samoea game and it has more significance now
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Very generous with some of those ratings Sir. I thought Corry was absolutely awful and i'm sure his Win/Loss record as a captain is reflective of the poor, single minded, unenthusiastic approach that he uses.
Ben Kay needs to attend some Psycology classes to unearth just why he thinks that he is an acute world class kicker with the uncanny nack of being able to slot little grubber kicks that equal to Tries.
The RFU needs to do something with its structure, as does the northern hemisphere. Perhaps they should colaborate with the Welsh, Irish, Scottish, French and Italian Unions to get sothing similar to the Super 14 going on, which will result in more top players playing together week in week out, as well as playing club rugby. They really need to get sorted.
Got to give some major Props to Jason Robinson though, he gave it all even though the players around him seemed dis-interested lethargic and confused to whether they were playing Rugby or watching a fine BBC Sitcom (Well, maybe thats what the South Africans thought they were playing). Robinson is a hearty lion in which cannot be replaced, its a shame his highly distinguished career ended on such a low note, he will be missed.
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This is the most disappointing game that I have ever seen in a world cup match involving England.
Mike Catt was bereft of ideas, Andy Farrell is not good enough to play at international level. The forwards were a complete disaster from the kick off. There was no leadership whatsever. The only person to come out of the game with any credit was Jason Robinson, who probably will not play again. The England management should make drastic changes before England play Samoa and not pick players on reputation.
I am Welsh but I am geniunely concerned that English International rugby is in meltdown mode.
Western Samoa will be very close if this performance is anything to go by.
Second rows kicking when 15 metres from the line, nobody supporting the player jumping for the high ball. Every kickoff and evry drop out being kicked down the centre of the field and immeadiaetly either run or kicked back with interest.
Absolutely shocking, I hope we are not as half bad Saturday or we will concede 60 points.
Get a grip England you cannot be as bad as this again.
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Where was the game plan?
Where were the basic skills?
Where was the passion?
It is the lack of urgency which most depresses the average England fan. Josh Lewsey`s body language as he halfheartedly sidefooted that ball into touch towards the end of the match spoke volumes. He was ashamed of his own team.
If it is a set ploy to allow a second row like Kay to appear on the end of a threequarter move then why would he aimlessly punt the ball straight into the arms of a defender? Apparently Plan A involved running into a green wall and aimlessly recycling the ball....there appeared to be no Plan B.
Some chap from Stratford Upon Avon once wrote "something is rotten in the state of Denmark".....I think that this is the case with `Team England`. A country with our playing resources might well lose to South Africa but they should at least give the appearance of believing that they have a chance. When the only true resistance comes from the efforts of one man (even one as admirable as Robinson) then the `team` is finished. Without true team spirit we are nothing.
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England had clear vision for 3-4 years. Result a win in the 2003 World Cup. Super fit individuals, expert skill training, professional efforts to be the fastest, strongest most skillful individuals and team. Competing for places. Training as a team together to get possession, cross the gain line,to suck in defenders, weaken opposition defence then instant attack into weak areas. Win by improving 100s of areas as individuals and in teamwork. Great vision fully funded by RFU. Result national pride and a huge growth in English rugby. RFU success. Was the lesson learnt?
What a contrast 2004-7. RFU remove the vision and funds. Individuals fight for turf and egos. No working together aiming to create a winning team. Result a national team and RFU to pity. Each player tried hard. They were sent out just not equipped as individuals or with teamwork and strategy. Now the result hurts, losers losing badly. Empty seats and falling player numbers. RFU flops.
Has the lesson been learnt? In the real world a dynamic leadership would take over. Turn potential into success.
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This is the most disappointing game that I have ever seen in a world cup match involving England.
Mike Catt was bereft of ideas, Andy Farrell is not good enough to play at international level. The forwards were a complete disaster from the kick off. There was no leadership whatsever. The only person to come out of the game with any credit was Jason Robinson, who probably will not play again. The England management should make drastic changes before England play Samoa and not pick players on reputation.
I am Welsh but I am geniunely concerned that English International rugby is in meltdown mode.
Western Samoa will be very close if this performance is anything to go by.
Second rows kicking when 15 metres from the line, nobody supporting the player jumping for the high ball. Every kickoff and evry drop out being kicked down the centre of the field and immeadiaetly either run or kicked back with interest.
Absolutely shocking, I hope we are not as half bad Saturday or we will concede 60 points.
Get a grip England you cannot be as bad as this again. Embarrising and I am a Welshman.
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Outplayed in every department bar fullback. But also well and truly beaten up without sight of a single bloodied Boks shirt.
We need to change to an all red strip cos the white shows us up for what we are - bleeding lightweights.
Inspite of this, someone needs to point out to the French ref that he is supposed to referee both sides.
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Ok so England lost. But by God I expected at least 15 points. There is no way in hell Samoa will come away from either of their next two games with zero points. We may not get out of the group!
So sad to see Billy Wiz's body finally give in when his heart was still in it. Shame nobody else showed up and performed this evening. I suspect that was the last time we will see him on the pitch.
As for England...well not suprised really. Have to say it was the old heads who at least contested today. The younger players were frankly out of their depth. They tried but just weren't good enough - plain and simple. SA played as well as they needed to without giving up any points. Their confidence should be sky high. They are capable of a lot more, and no doubt we will see it.
England's premiership clubs maybe some of the richest in the world, but they are not helping the national team's cause. The southern hemisphere teams are loving it. A flood of their players come over in between world cups to earn some pound sterling and return just in time for the next WC. In the mean time they take up critical places in positions and squads all over the country that should be filled with young English talent. Same applies to football. La Liga in Spain was the most glamorous league in the world in the 80's....where did that get them? The English premiership (football) as fallen into the same trap. Can anyone name 20 English under-21 players who are solid 1st choice players in the premiership? Sure we have the best players in the world playing in the best league, but HOW MANY ARE ENGLISH? 60% if you're lucky.
We must stem the tide of foreign players....its not hurting English rugby. Its killing it.
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This is the most disappointing game that I have ever seen in a world cup match involving England.
Mike Catt was bereft of ideas, Andy Farrell is not good enough to play at international level. The forwards were a complete disaster from the kick off. There was no leadership whatsever. The only person to come out of the game with any credit was Jason Robinson, who probably will not play again. The England management should make drastic changes before England play Samoa and not pick players on reputation.
I am Welsh but I am geniunely concerned that English International rugby is in meltdown mode.
Western Samoa will be very close if this performance is anything to go by.
Second rows kicking when 15 metres from the line, nobody supporting the player jumping for the high ball. Every kickoff and evry drop out being kicked down the centre of the field and immeadiaetly either run or kicked back with interest.
Absolutely shocking, I hope we are not as half bad Saturday or we will concede 60 points.
Get a grip England you cannot be as bad as this again. Embarrising and I am a Welshman.
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You are very wrong, and on a catastrphic scale. 2 men you haven't given half the respect they needed tonight are Tom Rees, the only man who got to pretty much every breakdown, but unable to impose himself due to our other incompetant backrow forwards.
Another man you have FAILED to give enough credit to is Lewis Moody, who really did change things in the last 20 when he was brought on. the breakdown was more aggressive, and we managed to retain our own ball!
[underline/]Martin Corry needs to go.[/underline/]
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...well, what can you say to that? that was about as comprehensive as it gets! If I said this anywhere near the England camp even now I'd probably deservedly get shot down, but maybe we should CUT OUR LOSSES, throw the game vs Samoa (or just "play to our full potential" like today, the outcome would be the same) and look forward to the 6 nations, where excuses of needing an experienced side won't limit us to putting out a side with only one or two people able to make a line break, run a supporting line, or, god forbid, make an offload in the tackle to keep the ball moving. Let's just finally all get on the same page and realise this was never going to go the way of the optimistic English fan. There is no light at the end of this WC (what an appropriate acronym for English fans eh?) tunnel, but there could be a silver lining to the experience. I'm guessing that a few players that played in this campaign will feature again (those who are south of the 30yr border) and will use this result as much as all the others to mount a comeback over the next few years.
Time to look forward and cut our losses, I say. On the plus side,we should be able to overcome any hangover from this worldcup right quick... we SHOULD be able to...
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Sounds about right. "Scrum-time" is one of the most modish, senseless and lame cliches going. "In the scrums..."?
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no-one scores NIL POINTS, oh dear
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My only hope was that BA was hiding his best players as a strategic play. To advance second means Wales or Australia whom we should be able to beat with all the best players playing
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What an awful way for Jason Robinson to end his career, was the only englishman with any courage, creativity or skill in that performance.
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It's really hard to write this. My emotions are high.
I have been with the England team through good times and bad over the last 13 years but it's been a long time since I've felt as bad as i do right now.
I watched every agonising second of this debacle in a Soho bar next to a group of Boks.
After the game I had to shake the hand of every one of them - they kicked our ass.
That's all I can really say.
England - you've gave me nothing tonight.
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How can you give any of the players anything above 2 or 3??
I'm not trying to take anything away from a great Springbok squad, but not scoring a single point in the match and you're giving guys scores of 5 or 6 - do they just have to turn up to get these marks? Because that's all they did.
I suggest getting a little realistic - it was shambolic and I'd give just about everyone (outside of Robinson, Easter and Gommersall) minus points without losing sleep.
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It's really hard to write this. My emotions are high.
I have been with the England team through good times and bad over the last 13 years but it's been a long time since I've felt as bad as i do right now.
I watched every agonising second of this debacle in a Soho bar next to a group of Boks.
After the game I had to shake the hand of every one of them - they kicked our ass.
That's all I can really say.
England - you gave me nothing tonight.
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England were always on the back foot. Lacked pace at the breakdown, ball wasnt recycled quick enough by the forwards, and we didnt keep the ball in hand long enough to build momentum going forward. Worst England performance ive seen!
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absolutely shocking performance by England, one of the few times i have actually been ashamed of this team, and certainly probably the only time i have ever walked out on a match.
i saw very few sparks in what looked like a team completely lacking any type of idea in how to play international rugby and once again any breaks were ruined by poor basic skills and no ability to finish a move.
I am utterly appalled by this performance, and the only reassurance is that the players themselves will be immensly disappointed in their performance.
Lets only hope that the build up to the next WC has an infinitly better structure, without the waste of time Robinson proved to be.
At least we can only get better....
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How Rees can be rated lower than Corry and Easter really makes me think if we were watching the same game. Rees was constantly the first player to the breakdown only to be faced by three or four South African's and no support from the other two back rowers. I would like to see Richy McCaw or George Smith play with Easter and Corry and do much better than Rees did.
Easter was missing for the whole game except for one pop out of the tackle. He was driven backwards or didnt make any ground, as was Corry, on numerous occasions.
What should be said is that its a criminal offence that English coaches continually keep Corry and other slow undynamic back-row players on the pitch and take off quick players that break the gain line and get around the pitch. Moody should have come on for Corry or Easter and then at least Rees may have had some support.
How Brian Ashton must be cursing his decision not to take Haskell and Ward-Smith.
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How could we roll over so easily?
We have wasted an opportunity to 'blood' the nucleus of the 2011 squad with similar results to whay could be expected of those young guns
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Sat and watched for the whole game without hardly a stir of optimism at England's performance - never felt like this in 40 years of watching !Would be great to be able to argue with at least some of the ratings but sadly no can do ! Alarming lack of pace in all areas when compared with their Bok counterparts . Sadly it was the same story with England's creativity or lack of it . Put simply , they were controlled for the entire match by a bunch of guys who looked as though they relished the challenge and enjoyed putting their game plan into action . England played as much as they were allowed and note one important fact -the Boks discipline was such that they did not concede one penalty that was within goal kicking range ! Hard to recall a more dominant display since Scotland's 10 - 68 loss to S.A. - Murrayfield , I think 1997 ? Where next for Ashton's not so merry men ? Wish I was smart enough to know the answer to that one ! Jonny would have helped but cannot see how he could have stopped the bleeding . Gommers to start - sorry Shaun - Nightmare !! Rees and Moody also for 80 mins please - plus anyone with some pace ! Rest of the forwards need some fresh ideas - sheer brute force alone is just not enough ! Critical ? I guess so but tinged with a little honesty ! Regroup - rethink and at best - look forward to being knocked out in the quarters I fear - will be chuffed to bits if I am wrong ( as wife says I always am ! )
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Don't agree with any of those ratings?
How could you rate Sheridan & Regan the same? Sheridan had an top game - held his own - only him & J.R looked international standard. Regan was atrocious.
Likewise Shaw & Kay? Shaw wasn't great but kay was truly woeful - worst player on the pitch, even more than Perry.
Thought Sackey looked lively when he got the ball & did nothing wrong in defence or attack. Did more than Catt, Farrell & Noon together.
Agree with Rees - not sure what people are rating him on - can only be his age. He was completely anonymous bar losing turnovers & being driven backwards.
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For a team that failed to score a single point and never really looked dangerous these ratings are generous.
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Outplayed in every department bar fullback. But also well and truly beaten up without sight of a single bloodied Boks shirt.
We need to change to an all red strip cos the white shows us up for what we are - bleeding lightweights.
Inspite of this, someone needs to point out to the French ref that he is supposed to referee both sides.
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.... didnt see the game.....
wouldnt mind getting england later on in the draw!
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For a team that failed to score a single point and never really looked dangerous these ratings are generous.
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we should be totally ashamed of the performance. I'm loathe to criticise Ashton, I don't think he's ever had the time or resources to mount a creditable defence of the title, but I think he has reverted to conservatism just when our only hope is all out adventure. I thought Rees had been dealt a bum hand ever since I saw the team sheet - Corry and Easter just didn't offer him any support at the breakdown. To me he was the best England forward on the park - he tried hard and got to the break down - is it any wonder he suffered when he was competing against 2-3 boks on the front foot. Having said that credit must go to Sheridan and Stevens who did all that can be asked of them (Sheridan destroyed his opposite number) and we turned the bok scrum over.
I think the first time Lewsey received the ball from a team mate was in the 71st minute
The one thing to take from this game is we don't know how good the bocks are - they were not tested - we really were that bad and getting out of the pool stages now looks tricky!
Part of me is thinking a failure here might force the RFU to act and put in place the structures required to build a decent team again - but I'm not sure if they know how. I'm pretty sure we need to reduce the number of games our top guys play. never mind the quantity, lets feel the quality
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Well Done to the Boks!
How can you rate any of the English side over 4 when they were dismal??
Like the score said "ZERO" and thats the only score that team deserved!
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Well Done to the Boks!
How can you rate any of the English side over 4 when they were dismal??
Like the score said "ZERO" and thats the only score that team deserved!
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absolutely shocking performance by England, one of the few times i have actually been ashamed of this team, and certainly probably the only time i have ever walked out on a match.
i saw very few sparks in what looked like a team completely lacking any type of idea in how to play international rugby and once again any breaks were ruined by poor basic skills and no ability to finish a move.
I am utterly appalled by this performance, and the only reassurance is that the players themselves will be immensly disappointed in their performance.
Lets only hope that the build up to the next WC has an infinitly better structure, without the waste of time Robinson proved to be.
At least we can only get better....
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Embarrassing performance. I don't think anyone expected England to win but to not even make the scoreboard was beyond belief. To their credit, South Africa were clinical in their assault, but England gave far too much away and made it too easy for SA. The only player that stepped up to the plate, and put in the extra effort required when playing the third best team in the world, was Jason Robinson. A few did their jobs to the best of their abilities but others seriously didn't even perform the basics. Do they cover kicking in training? I bet even Portugal would fancy their chances against England at the moment!
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I watched in the USA paid $30 for the privilege and even took time off work to ensure I didnt miss a thing. What a waste of time. None of them deserve more than a 3 except for Robinson who played with his heart and soul so I agree with your 8 rating for him. I would give Sackey zero. He ambled along had no defence and looked out of his depth (or was it scared). Unfortunately I have no magic formula for success. Maybe losing to Samoa would be the best thing to allow us to start afresh and build for the future
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How could we roll over so easily?
We have wasted an opportunity to 'blood' the nucleus of the 2011 squad with similar results to thos expected of those young guns
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Sheridan 8
1 of the few to compete Vs his number. Fought hard, tailed off near end. Top game
Regan 4
Real let down. Anonymous in loose, throwing awful, 1 of many to look like he’d rather be elsewhere
Stevens 6
Front-row wasnt bad. Silly pens, not effective as Sheridan but good
Kay 3
Horrendous. How'd he stay on? Moody then Borthwick should’ve replaced him. Dropped ball, sideways runs, lost lineouts, what was that kick?
Shaw 6
OK. Watched him close. Couldnt fault effort, lots of unseen work /good hits. Needed /expected more, but far better than Kay
Corry 6
He’ll get stick no doubt but in top 4 or 5 for effort. Symbols lack of flair/cluelessness. Dropped ball, lost turnovers to backs yet still best of 4-8, sums it up
Rees 4
Really disappointing. Watched USA game again - though 1 of the better ones, only 2 or 3 moments of note from him. Even less today. Slow to breakdowns, lost turnovers, largely anonymous. I’d have kept him on but can see why B.A didn't
Easter 5
Interesting. Like 20/20 today – does he sum up lack of quality in domestic game? Impresses highly at club level, deserves chance but brings nothing from that to internationals. Where were the running lines? Pick & go’s? Drives? Far better in 2nd-half, but lost alarming turnovers. Like cricketers – maybe proven internationals are better than top club players
Perry 4
Awful again. In June, not in my top 8 S/Hs. Brilliant in all 3 warm-up’s but back to old today. Masterclass by DuPreez. Clueless kicking -far far too slow. Though, who else is there?
Catt 5
Anonymous for fly-half. Not a 10 ok, but didn’t attempt the right tactics. Where were testing kicks to Monty? Kicks behind Pieterson? Exploting inexperienced centres? What he did was ok but but it was more what he didn’t do
Sackey 6.5
Given no ball. When he looked ok. Good not great in defence and attack. Looked V lively, but left with no support, handing off 3 men. Deserves next start
Farrell 4.5
No better /worse than men either side of him. Aimless kicking, poor passing, slow running. Even strength never helped him. He’d struggle in League now
Noon 4
Epitomy of failings. Given little to work with & not as bad as Kay. But have you ever known a centre so lacking in any handling skills? Flair? Side step? Pace? It’s just endless “head down run into them.” Lost as many turnovers as was supposed to win. Tackling ok, but when opposition run at you for 80 mins even that'll fail as it did. Could be blessing if JSD, Cipriani, Erinle comes in
Lewsey 6
Not a winger. Should’ve moved up line. 1 top tackle. All he did, he did fine but that took 30 secs of 80 mins
Robinson 9
Head & shoulders over anyone. Almost S.A V Jason Robinson. Only WC player whose standards, effort, fitness, ability hasn't dropped. Hope it's not it. 1 of the best sportsmen I’ve seen in my life. Oh for 15 of him
Chuter 4
See Regan
Moody 5
Disappointing in small time on. Expected to see him everywhere. Lot to prove but didn’t see him once.
Gomarsall 7
Big improvement on Perry, but no guarantee he’ll not be awful next game. Better kicking & urgency & deserves a start.
Tait 5
I just don’t see the same in Tait that everyone else seems to. Did little wrong tonight & I know he’s never had a run in his club position (whatever that actually is) but still looks a bit short of class at this level in all his cameos’. Lacks a little strength, drops balls, cannot kick & loses turnover too much even when out of position. Still deserves a start at 13 but have seen nothing to suggest he’s our long term centre.
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Sheridan 8
1 of the few to compete Vs his number. Fought hard, tailed off near end. Top game
Regan 4
Real let down. Anonymous in loose, throwing awful, 1 of many to look like he’d rather be elsewhere
Stevens 6
Front-row wasnt bad. Silly pens, not effective as Sheridan but good
Kay 3
Horrendous. How'd he stay on? Moody then Borthwick should’ve replaced him. Dropped ball, sideways runs, lost lineouts, what was that kick?
Shaw 6
OK. Watched him close. Couldnt fault effort, lots of unseen work /good hits. Needed /expected more, but far better than Kay
Corry 6
He’ll get stick no doubt but in top 4 or 5 for effort. Symbols lack of flair/cluelessness. Dropped ball, lost turnovers to backs yet still best of 4-8, sums it up
Rees 4
Really disappointing. Watched USA game again - though 1 of the better ones, only 2 or 3 moments of note from him. Even less today. Slow to breakdowns, lost turnovers, largely anonymous. I’d have kept him on but can see why B.A didn't
Easter 5
Interesting. Like 20/20 today – does he sum up lack of quality in domestic game? Impresses highly at club level, deserves chance but brings nothing from that to internationals. Where were the running lines? Pick & go’s? Drives? Far better in 2nd-half, but lost alarming turnovers. Like cricketers – maybe proven internationals are better than top club players
Perry 4
Awful again. In June, not in my top 8 S/Hs. Brilliant in all 3 warm-up’s but back to old today. Masterclass by DuPreez. Clueless kicking -far far too slow. Though, who else is there?
Catt 5
Anonymous for fly-half. Not a 10 ok, but didn’t attempt the right tactics. Where were testing kicks to Monty? Kicks behind Pieterson? Exploting inexperienced centres? What he did was ok but but it was more what he didn’t do
Sackey 6.5
Given no ball. When he looked ok. Good not great in defence and attack. Looked V lively, but left with no support, handing off 3 men. Deserves next start
Farrell 4.5
No better /worse than men either side of him. Aimless kicking, poor passing, slow running. Even strength never helped him. He’d struggle in League now
Noon 4
Epitomy of failings. Given little to work with & not as bad as Kay. But have you ever known a centre so lacking in any handling skills? Flair? Side step? Pace? It’s just endless “head down run into them.” Lost as many turnovers as was supposed to win. Tackling ok, but when opposition run at you for 80 mins even that'll fail as it did. Could be blessing if JSD, Cipriani, Erinle comes in
Lewsey 6
Not a winger. Should’ve moved up line. 1 top tackle. All he did, he did fine but that took 30 secs of 80 mins
Robinson 9
Head & shoulders over anyone. Almost S.A V Jason Robinson. Only WC player whose standards, effort, fitness, ability hasn't dropped. Hope it's not it. 1 of the best sportsmen I’ve seen in my life. Oh for 15 of him
Chuter 4
See Regan
Moody 5
Disappointing in small time on. Expected to see him everywhere. Lot to prove but didn’t see him once.
Gomarsall 7
Big improvement on Perry, but no guarantee he’ll not be awful next game. Better kicking & urgency & deserves a start.
Tait 5
I just don’t see the same in Tait that everyone else seems to. Did little wrong tonight & I know he’s never had a run in his club position (whatever that actually is) but still looks a bit short of class at this level in all his cameos’. Lacks a little strength, drops balls, cannot kick & loses turnover too much even when out of position. Still deserves a start at 13 but have seen nothing to suggest he’s our long term centre.
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Sheridan 8
1 of the few to compete Vs his number. Fought hard, tailed off near end. Top game
Regan 4
Real let down. Anonymous in loose, throwing awful, 1 of many to look like he’d rather be elsewhere
Stevens 6
Front-row wasnt bad. Silly pens, not effective as Sheridan but good
Kay 3
Horrendous. How'd he stay on? Moody then Borthwick should’ve replaced him. Dropped ball, sideways runs, lost lineouts, what was that kick?
Shaw 6
OK. Watched him close. Couldnt fault effort, lots of unseen work /good hits. Needed /expected more, but far better than Kay
Corry 6
He’ll get stick no doubt but in top 4 or 5 for effort. Symbols lack of flair/cluelessness. Dropped ball, lost turnovers to backs yet still best of 4-8, sums it up
Rees 4
Really disappointing. Watched USA game again - though 1 of the better ones, only 2 or 3 moments of note from him. Even less today. Slow to breakdowns, lost turnovers, largely anonymous. I’d have kept him on but can see why B.A didn't
Easter 5
Interesting. Like 20/20 today – does he sum up lack of quality in domestic game? Impresses highly at club level, deserves chance but brings nothing from that to internationals. Where were the running lines? Pick & go’s? Drives? Far better in 2nd-half, but lost alarming turnovers. Like cricketers – maybe proven internationals are better than top club players
Perry 4
Awful again. In June, not in my top 8 S/Hs. Brilliant in all 3 warm-up’s but back to old today. Masterclass by DuPreez. Clueless kicking -far far too slow. Though, who else is there?
Catt 5
Anonymous for fly-half. Not a 10 ok, but didn’t attempt the right tactics. Where were testing kicks to Monty? Kicks behind Pieterson? Exploting inexperienced centres? What he did was ok but but it was more what he didn’t do
Sackey 6.5
Given no ball. When he looked ok. Good not great in defence and attack. Looked V lively, but left with no support, handing off 3 men. Deserves next start
Farrell 4.5
No better /worse than men either side of him. Aimless kicking, poor passing, slow running. Even strength never helped him. He’d struggle in League now
Noon 4
Epitomy of failings. Given little to work with & not as bad as Kay. But have you ever known a centre so lacking in any handling skills? Flair? Side step? Pace? It’s just endless “head down run into them.” Lost as many turnovers as was supposed to win. Tackling ok, but when opposition run at you for 80 mins even that'll fail as it did. Could be blessing if JSD, Cipriani, Erinle comes in
Lewsey 6
Not a winger. Should’ve moved up line. 1 top tackle. All he did, he did fine but that took 30 secs of 80 mins
Robinson 9
Head & shoulders over anyone. Almost S.A V Jason Robinson. Only WC player whose standards, effort, fitness, ability hasn't dropped. Hope it's not it. 1 of the best sportsmen I’ve seen in my life. Oh for 15 of him
Chuter 4
See Regan
Moody 5
Disappointing in small time on. Expected to see him everywhere. Lot to prove but didn’t see him once.
Gomarsall 7
Big improvement on Perry, but no guarantee he’ll not be awful next game. Better kicking & urgency & deserves a start.
Tait 5
I just don’t see the same in Tait that everyone else seems to. Did little wrong tonight & I know he’s never had a run in his club position (whatever that actually is) but still looks a bit short of class at this level in all his cameos’. Lacks a little strength, drops balls, cannot kick & loses turnover too much even when out of position. Still deserves a start at 13 but have seen nothing to suggest he’s our long term centre.
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I think anyone with half a brain could see that England weren't going to be able to defend their crown. Why then did Ashton insist on bringing a load of 30 somethings who won't be around in 4 years when we could make a (potentially realistic) challenge. Of the starting 22 today you could only realistically say that Rees, Sheridan, Stevens and Tait will be around come the next world cup. What a shame that the coach is not a man with the vision to build for the future. Regardless of whether we make it out of the group or get battered by NZ in the quarters, the coach will be unable to take a single positive from this campaign as he won't even have blooded a crop of talented youngsters with the hunger to succeed in future tournaments.
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I thought the English game was naive at best. They were outplayed in EVERY facet of the game, perhaps except for the occasional scrum. If this is the best group of players available, then there is something very wrong with the coaching! The England defence was almost non-existent with gaps everywhere. There was no pace in the England game and what ball they got they squandered by kicking away. There will be many thousands -if not millions- of English heartily ashamed tonight :-((
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I don't agree with the Tom Rees statement.
Brian Ashton brought moody on to provide some pace and momentum into the team,
but he took of one of two players who were providing that, Rees. He should have taken Corry off, Corry being his old boring self, no flair, no pace, just a bit of brutality which is easily matched by any man with a bit of muscle.
Get Farrell and Catt off the team now, i don't care what any one can say, they are too slow and old to be international players. Get Corry out, find a hooker that can throw the ball in straight, with accuracy, and actually think tactically rather than what looks flash and cool. At the first few line-outs you keep it simple and call it safe.
We need to scrap this World Cup, there is no hope for England in the most positive of situations, and i am forever an optimist. Think about 2011, think about developing with the new younger set of players, and for god's sake, get back Clive Woodward! :)
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Obviously having problems with the website due to multiple posts.
Basically, agree with the majority of posts...ratings are too generous for a team that failed to score a point and rarely, if ever, looked dangerous.
I am an Irishman and can't help but wonder if a similar fate awaits us...
Still, if England do get out of the pool stage, whoever they meet in the quarters must be licking their chops!!!
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We were never going to defend our crown at this world cup - so why not take the youngsters? Losing I can take, if we lose playing well and particularly with good young players who have some potential. But losing by a whitewash, playing with zero imagination and no cutting edge, with a squad of thirty year-olds, is beyind pointless. Such a shame Ashton lost his bottle after 6N - if we'd lost to the Boks with Geraghty, Flood, Haskell, Sinbad et al I wouldn't feel nearly so let down.
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I watched the game in New Zealand - a nation that gives compliments to foreign rugby players grudgingly.People here were full of praise for Jason Robinson and not just because he was the only England player of true international class that played against SA.He played well to deal with all those aerial balls and to provide the only cutting edge in attack that England possess. If his injury is serious he will be missed.
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we do not learn in anything we do in sport in our country, the fact is they are paid to perform & they dont its an embrasment. they need to stand up and be counted now
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Sad to say the team today looked like Robinson was back in charge.
It is time to stop putting faith in old old heads and people who cant convert from league. We should be good enough so that we dont need the likes of Farrell.
How can we have 2 sides in the euro cup final and not be competing internationally. It is time to blood the kids. Get rid of Corry, he cannot lead and lacks any charisma on the pitch.
Scores ridiculous apart from good old Jason - he tried despite being 33 - but sums up the ridiculous situation that we are relying on him.
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Not pleasant viewing, added to the French calamity a big down for NH rugby. Its easy to criticise the RFU but its the clubs who are driving the need for non-nationals, and its the over-reliance on these that is ruining English (and French) rugby. This also has a knock-on effect on the Celtic nations who are forced into the same to remain competitive in the Heineken. A massive reduction in the grants from the RFU to clubs who persist in recruiting these players, not the increase that seems to have been negotiated to replace the Long-form agreement.
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Start building the side to win 2011.
No more old and bold players. They were great and were part of a Team.
We need to build a Team and should have started from the next match following the last cup final.
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strange, no comments from any S Africans??? Filtered out by the democracy perhaps, anyway good idea to change the shirts from red on a white background. won't show the bleeding disgrace so much.
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I'll applaud and embellish a comment above: England, 50 million people, trillions of pounds, 200 years of rugby. New Zealand, 4 million people, a blip on the economic radar, 100 years of rugby. PLEASE get them on the pitch together -- it's what the RFU needs to wake up to their abysmal management, in case 0-36 to SA and the looming loss to Samoa won't be enough.
These misguided chaps wrapping themselves in the Big Red Rose and twaddling on about 2003 are of the same mindset as those at RFU who captained this woeful ship onto the rocks
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This is the first England game I've watched in 2 years - now that I'm living in Australia. I went to ALL England matches in 2003 and knew we would win every single game - each player then believed and had the ability but mostly they played as one team, not 15 frightened school boys. I've not seen such an inept performance since the 1987 WC against Wales. There was no believe, no guts, no one wanted to be there. They were a bunch of scared rabbits. Who let Perry wear an England shirt?! He looked like someone from the down the pub had jumped over the fence and ran on for a laugh. Get rid of Corry - he's past it, never really was in form in his life was he? Get rid of all of them. The only decent player was Robinson. As for Sackey - I've heard a lot about a Sackey but it couldn't be the same bloke that turned up tonight could it? How can you rate any of the England players above 3? They were rubbish. Wake up England! 2003 ended in 2003! Sack the management first - talk about useless.
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How on earth did Shaun Perry score a single point? I live in Sydney so havent seen a lot of him but so slow is his delivery it was like going back to the Dark Ages. He really was totally out of his depth, even against the USA. Does no one in England watch Southern Hemisphere rugby anymore? England gave me my greatest rugby moment 4 years ago & I'll be at the Final again but fortunately with a bunch of Kiwis!
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I don't understand how you could give these players higher then 5, their performance was really not what the england nation expected. My father is SAn and my mother is English, today I stood with my father.
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I agree with other posters, the ratings are too high, mostly. I think the only players to come out of this with any credit are Robinson and Gomarsall. Robinson was the only player to make a break and the amount of high balls he took convincingly stopped us from being on the end of an even bigger beating. When Gomarsall came on, he got us going forward, ok, it didn't produce any points, but the very fact he seemed to be interested in getting some quick ball to the backs (perry was so so so slow, and because of that, our backs didn't have a chance) In my opinion Perry should never play for us again... I can't ever remember seeing him have a good game for england, he might be a great club player, but he isn't good enough for this. I hate the way England rugby has gone since 2003. This squad is a squad of a nation desperate not to lose the cup, rather than desperate to win it. They said that as inspiration before, Ashton used "Rumble in the Jungle"... I think this very thing sends out the wrong message, we are admitting to ourselves that we are underdogs... this is wrong, we should be going into it with the attitude that we are the best. Corry should never be England captain again, he wasn't a success when he was captain before, and I don't care about the fact that he shouted at the team at half time... so he should have. He doesn't justify his place in the team based on his own performance, and thus he shouldnt be in the team, let alone captain. I don't blame Farrell...He clearly hasn't had enough time playing Union...I get the impression the england coaches he was their "wildcard". I think he deserves another chance, but after he has played at club level for a bit. I think its a joke that at the kick-offs we have a no12 who kicks long every time (why) He isn't used to the union style kick-off... and they said catt couldn't place kick, and thus I'm guessing kick-offs because he has been protecting his old back...why is he in the team????? His kicking from hand was terrible! We should have players such as: Cipriani, Haskell, Geraghty etc should be in the squad at least. When I saw the squad before the world cup, it was clear that this was a squad picked by a coach scared of losing the cup. We have exciting talent, but we are too scared to use it! I am actually thinking I would rather we lose to Samoa and Tonga and fail to get out of the group, so that it really makes the RFU, and english rugby as a whole sit up. Or of course we could get through the group, I think we will beat Samoa and Tonga, but then we will get put out by Australia... know what i would prefer...
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No comments from any South Africans?
I think there is any need to comment, the scoreboard says it all. Personally I think the Boks "toyed" with England in the second half, why risk injury to your players when its obvious your opponent has been thoroughly beaten and poses no threat...England were out-played, out-matched and over-rated for this world cup...'till next time boys :)
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Yeahhhhhhhh only just got back home from a south african friendly pub!!! wonderful score line, it proves that the bokke still have some of their old '95 flair. But I get the feeling that we only played in third gear, it would be nice to see what damage the boks could do if they unleashed all their potential in a propper match, maybe a South Africa v Australia/new zealand final? But anyway my comiserations to the england team, Brian Ashton needs to start from the bottom and sack all the current players, sure olddies like Jason Robinson have talent but his injury proves that he may have passed his "Best Before Date". And what is with those ratings, is it some kind of english tounge in cheek humour or are they serious ratings?
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No comments from any South Africans?
I do not think there is any need to comment, the scoreboard says it all. Personally I think the Boks "toyed" with England in the second half, why risk injury to your players when its obvious your opponent has been thoroughly beaten and poses no threat...England were out-played, out-matched and over-rated for this world cup...'till next time boys :)
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Extremely generous scores out of ten. Remember the old Max Boyce routine about how Wales thought a passing train whistle was the full time whistle, and left the field....and ten minutes later England scored???? The Boks brought on their B team, and played to avoid injury for the last 30 minutes, and STILL England couldn't score.
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I live in the States and am glad I didnt take time off work and pay for pay per view to watch the game. Surely you need to compare the way that the game is played successfully in the other hemisphere and learn from them? Cos they're all competitive and we are not. You can't win without power and pace and you don't get that with players such as Corry, Catt and the like. And if you're saying that Robinson was our only player then what state of affairs is the England game in? It really is a time for a rehaul. This may mean losing games in the six nations but someone has to have the bottle to realise rugby is a game for young men. As they say over here....'you cant make chicken salad out of chicken s.....'. So BA, you need to cut a bunch of slow loyal old men into the abyss, and lose with the young ones before you can win again in the future. And if you dont want to do that BA, then you are not a leader, and not a coach.
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The biggest disappointment was that despite being deserved losers on the day the vast majority of SA points came from basic mistakes by England- giving away penalties when we have the ball!, not rolling away, scrum offences in the opposition 22, not throwing in straight, not making touch (surely Catt's last game!!- Farrell took an age to kick it, but he made touch) ...
Plus- when England made a mistake the ball went quickly towards the England Line. When SA made a mistake they recovered well and supported each other.
Got to work on:
1. restarts- kick high and give the forwards a chance to contest the ball- we just gave it to the opposition!
2. ruck ball- use it fast. Dont wait for one of our forwards to infringe and lose the ball!
3. backs - how about running onto the ball? and trying a few different lines? What do they do in training?
..only Samoa and Tonga to go- so we will have 4 or 5+ more injured players.
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Sorry Bryn but were you watching the same England team as I was. Dont get me wrong. Any defeat for the world champions at this World cup, six nations or friendly match is among my highlights of any year
England are rubbish, You know it, majority of fans know it and God bless him Brian Ashton, who would make anybody's perfect grandfather, knows it too but is too polite a man to admit it.
I wish we in Ireland had players of the vision of Martin Corry, the ramrod that is Jamie Noon, the kicking ability of Andy Farrell, the titanic Simon Shaw, big ears Borthwick, not forgetting those titans of the front row- Sheridan and Stevens. Least we forget wee George goatee Chuter- he frightens me as much as he frightens the opposition.
Blessed are those who have won a previous world cup and think they can do it with basically the same men now 4 years older, slower, have made advances in their technical knowledge and are basically CRAP.
soar Eire
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To even make any comparison between the world cup winning team and this world cup squad is a joke. Fans and media alike need to let go of the 2003 glory and start a fresh. Any fool can see that whatever we had in the last WC has well and truly left us, its time to move on and stop relying on old hands. Here's to a Samoan thrashing...at least it may hereld a new beginning!
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Too many foreigners in the Guiness premiership, teams not wanting to lose rather that wanting to win (if you see what I mean), too many coaches scared of getting rid of players obviously past it and praying to the 13-code gods for a saviour...
You guys seriously need to ditch Corry, Dallaglio,Regan, Easter (think he's about 30 anyway), Kay, Perry, Catt, Farrell, Noon, Sackey...mind you, as a welshman, i'd hardly be crying if that lot were fielded against us come the six nations.
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Seeing that England was playing against 16 men, the Ref was really very ONE EYED in a lot of his decisions against England. The Boks got off with a lot of offside play and coming in from the side of the ruck that England was being pinged for all the time! Was the Ref French? The Ref was the result of the one sided score! Just a note, I am a New Zealander by the way!
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Pride? How can any of them have any pride when they are forced to wear that new rugby strip, befitting more of a syncronised swimming team that an ex world chapion rugby club!!! :-)
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Englands main problem is that after the RWC 2003 they failed to see the intervening 3-4 years as a building process to the next workd cup and instead used it as a way to blood promising youngsters (tait, allen, haskell, flood, morgan) and then put them to the back of the line at the earliest sign of weakness. Then instead putting players in the team that failed to make the grade at their peak (shaw, corry, reagan) or players that are past their sell by date and need to be put back on the shelf (dallaglio, kay). One thing that frustrated me more than most as a England fan is that Brian Ashton has completely betrayed his ethos of free flowing rugby portrayed by so many of the teams he had previously coached, and has instead installed a system that attempts at best to be efficient at the set piece. We have fallen so far behind the Southern hemisphere countries that it will take a revolution in English rugby to reverse the decline.
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Has any sport seen such a fall from grace of it's defending champions?
In four years the England side has gone from the best in the world to third rate. It's not a lull in form, it's a collapse...an implosion.
Their humiliation at the hands of the Boks underlines it all. Management is a disgrace and the most the pundits can get excited about is an ex-league player who has been in the game over ten years already. To make us even more of a laughing stock, why the hell is Mike Catt even in the squad? How can you field him at fly-half against the Boks?
I honestly think the man in the pub couldn't do a worse job.
Reality checks are needed along the entire vertical.
An utter embarrassment.
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I live in Japan and got up at 3:30am to prepare to watch this. Why did I bother? I expected us to lose but in such abject fashion? We did not compete anywhere on the pitch. We all know our backs are a shower at the moment but the forwards were pathetic too. After thsi World Cup our domestic game needs looking t again and this time put the youngsters into the Engfland team and keep them there. Who will replace Ashton?
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Sad to be a Pom in NZ today. What a pathetic performance (jason Robinson excepted) from an unfit, unorganised, slow,flabby and most uninspiring bunch. Where have all the athletes gone?
I wonder how the heck we won the last World Cup - couldn't believe it then and this proves everyone else must have lost it !
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A disgraceful performance. Robinson can hold his head up high and deserved the ovation when he left the field, but the clowns around him don't deserve anything.Even when we got into a reasonable position we took the worng options or fumled a simple pass. Is this the best that England have. As I live in Australia I hope they don't make the quarter finals. The Aussies will be out for revenge from 4 years ago and it will be a humiliating experience for us poms to go through. The South Africans aren't that good, we even rolled thier scrum a couple of times, but we just made them look good
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I really am lost for words. Jason Robinson is the only player who can face himself in the mirror after this shambles. Unfortunately, he was surrounded by complete incompetence in all areas. I could mention 14 other players but Sackey! Can anybody tell me why he is wearing an England shirt. Clueless with absolutely no pace whatsoever. Utter disgrace apart from Robinson. Thanks for all you have done
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Completely agree with Chris (above). I live abroad also and got up in the middle of the night for that rubbish. The worst performance by Any English team in ANY sport that I can remember. This match should be known forthwith as South Africa vs Jason Robinson. The other 14 may as well have not been on the pitch. So Sad to see Robinson hobbling off.
Does anyone seriously want to to see us qualify from this group and then be anihilated by the Aussies? We are like a lame race horse - end the misery!
As someone posted earlier. We need to go away and learn how to play rugby.
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Oh dear, good only for a laugh, the ratings are certainly generous - would not be rated as high here in the southern hemisphere. We do take our sport seriously though!! Its a shame the defending champions have become minnows - have they undertaken any preparation? Did'nt look to athletic to us, beer must be too good!.
Once saw the Driffield Third team play like that.
Chin Up Chaps
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I think this was a bad performance as any one but chris oxford above suggesting on giving up shouldn't be considered an england fan as that is not the english way of playing we never give up.
Also i live abroad and stayedup untill 5 am to watch this robinson vs south africa show.
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I know we have injuries and suspensions but the managenment has given every indication that they didn't have a plan A, let alone a plan B or C.
No.8, scrum-half, fly-half and inside centre are such vital positions but we still seem to be filling these positions with players who are not up to it, out of position or passed their best.
If we are going to get hammered using our mature players then why not bring in the youngsters so they can get experience before the next world cup?
Come on guys sort it out!!!
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Were England ever going to win this World Cup? No. So why didn't we bring a squad for the future. A squad that could grow and gain experience. It is very much a British disease not to give youth a chance and vital experience. What are we so affraid of. Players like Catt & the Lion Hearted Lawrence are legends but what do they hold beyond this World Cup? There were too many players in their 30's on the edge of retirement. A player like Flood would have gained so much from this tournament. The RFU need to take a long hard look at themselves, stick their hands up and admitt that they have ruined the sport in England. We should have built on our success from 2003 but we have gone backwards at an alarming rate. Didn't Will Carling call the RFU 56 Old Farts? How correct. Get the pompous board out. It is the 21st century and it is time to run the sport as needs be. There is only one answer and that is bring in Sir Clive to run the whole show. WOODWOOD FOR RFU PRESIDENT. Get rid of the dead wood from the team and the RFU. We have to be carefull or in 40 years we are going to be like those fairy footballers and 2003 will be our 1966. God help us.
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before the team was announced i was praying they wouldnt have a midfield of catt, farrel, noon. low and behold... so, so, so one dimentional,predictable, uninventive. does anyone no if hipkiss is still ill? cosidering he's a player who's actually dynamic, surely ashton has thought to start him if fit. if not, surely he's not going to start farrel again?? laughed out loud when i read someone's earlier post of their ideal starting line up, which had farrell at OC!!! my god. GET THE BRAIN DEAD MIDFIELD OUT
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As a Scot I tend to enjoy watching England lose, but prefer a sneaky 2 or 3 pointer. I think the premiership has a lot to blame for England's poor performance.
Week in week (outfar more games than Super 14, NPC or Currie Cup) they play a poor version of rugby league, for the spectators, with big straight running body builders, mainly from the Southern Hemisphere players, any sense of ball and player vision thoroughly coached out of them.
Cut the league/play off or produce a selective district system where the best players can be drafted from any club in the region. Move away from business men running the clubs. Start picking players who can play their positions, not just run straight, i.e. props who can scrummage - how Sheridan is not penalised off the park is beyond me?
Dito for all the home nations in fact!
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Engalnd lost end of story bring on the NZ and Aussies
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Dear oh Dear Oh Dear
As a SA supporter I cringed for the English supporters at the stadium. They are the only aspect of English rugby worth any praise.I have never seen the likes of Farrell at even junior school level. Accolades for Robinson - not likely. Average at best.
Can the chariot swing any lower?
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England were appaling, what happened to their mighty pack, any natural talent seems to have be coached out of them. Their reliance on the 'rolling maul' a major factor in the last world cup is now old hat, all the other teams seem to do it better, use the backs once in a while please!. M Catt at number 10 had a shocker, the management should have made a change at that position after Catt's 1st half performance, which was riddled with mistakes. This might be a one off, but I'm sure the guy will be feeling low on self esteem and might be a liability in future games, look what happened to G Henson after the last Lions tour!
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As an Irishman living in S Africa, and who hardly knows these English players,I have to say that they didn't look as if they were even trying, with one or two exceptions. Most looked decidedly jaded and unfit. But worst of all was the lack of ideas and the persistence with failed tactics.
Is there a Northern team with even a remote chance of beating a Southern Hemisphere team? I'd be astounded after watching both France and England.
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I have never seen an England team play so badly and not even compete, they were 2nd best all over the field. Better luck in 4 years eh?
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As a Pom living in NZ this was embarrassing - besides Jason Robinson, I wouldn't give any of them any points.
If you watch Southern Hemisphere rugby regularly, it is clear that South Africa and the All Blacks are streets ahead of the northern hemisphere teams. In the last 4 years they have taken the game to a different level - they are very athletic and superfit - even the forwards. England are pedestrian in comparison. There may be a load of money in club rugby to attract ex and past-it All Blacks, but the northern hemisphere international teams need to urgently change the style of play and attract more athletic players - otherwise this debacle will happen time and time again.
Not Happy!!!!!!!
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At least Robinson looked like he was trying.
Most of the rest were awful and as for Farrell.........
It was very generous of the England scrum half ( the name escapes me as he was so bad) to wait until the opposition were all back in place before passing out of a ruck.
I am a Scot, and even I was embarrased.
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Here I am in South America (Colombia)trying to introduce the locals to rugby (English) and this is the campaign I choose!A debacle from start to finish. The only relatively pleasing performance was Señor Robinson-thank you and good luck;I seriously hope it's not final;you have brought us great joy over the years.
The responsibilty lies with the RFU;where is the investment? where are the new players? Why was advantage not taken 4 years ago to motivate an interest? what chance is there now? I want England to win in style but failing that, some passion for their country is essential
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I am so depressed. I watched the match live in Kabul with South African commentary. It was dreadful losing but listening to the gloating was almost as bad. England have gone backwards at such a rapid rate of Knotts that they face the real possibility of not qualifying for the last Eight. On the evidence thus far it would be well deserved.
South Africa did not play particularly well! We handed them probably 20 plus points through our own mistakes. All the Boks did was kick the ball deep into England territory and wait for the inevitable mistakes. They did not have to wait long.
The backs were simply dreadful, Robinson, Lewsey and Farrell apart. The front row dominated in the scrums but along with the locks failed to make any impact in the loose. The line outs were a shambles and the back row was anonymous.
Ratings:
Robinson 5. Englands Best player. Fearless and safe under the ball and made a few breaks reminiscent of better times for English Rugby. A Sad end to an outstanding career when forced off through injury.
Lewsey 4. Sound in defence but rarely given the opportunity to attack as he never got the ball.
Noon 2. Decidedly one dimensional and not a particularly good dimension. Sad to see a bad injury but at least it means he wont be selected next week!
Farrell 4. Big in defence and kicked well. Made a few thrusts and offloaded well but a general lack of support at sp[eed from depth meant that when he did offload the supporting player failed to make the most of it.
Sackey 1. Poor defensively. ran around like a headless chicken in attack and never once tried to take his man on the outside. Frequently out of position and his opposite number Peterson scored 2 tries - need I say more.
Catt 1. Failed to impose himself on the match, kicked poorly, missed a simple drop goal from 30 metres directly in front of the posts. Distribution poor, tackling non-existant.
Perry 1. Laboured pass, poor kicking and dreadful decision making. England took one against the head and wheeled right and he went left against the wheel kicking directly into touch. His opposite number was Man of the Match.Clueless!
Sheridan 4. Imposed himself in the scrum and supported well in the lineout. Made one surging run in the second half but too little too late.
Regan 1. Poor throwing at the line out and not as aggressive as on the tour to SA he failed to make any impression in the loose.
Stevens 4. Gave away a stupid penalty but played well in the loose and scrum.
Shaw 3. Secure line out ball and pushed hisheart out in the scrum. Tackled manfully but failed to make any impression on a resolute SA defence.
Kaye 2. Any lock that kicks when he has a man outside him deserves to be dropped - particularly when the execution is so poor. Stuffed in the line out but tackled manfully. Must learn that the shortest distance to the line is a straight one parallel to the touch line. Locks should not run sideways!
Corry 2. Depressingly one paced and lacking dynamism. Corry worked hard and did his best. It's just that his best is no longer good enough.
Rees 2. A huge learning experience for a young man who was part of a back row comprehensively outplayed by the Boks. He will be all the better for the experience and will become a World Class player with time.
Easter 2. Made a couple of strong surges late on but the game was already won. Appeared to struggle early on and had no impact at the line out.
Replacements:
Moody 3. At least demonstrated some dynamism for the brief time he was on.
Gommersall 3. Kicked well and tried hard to get England moving forward. A thankless task coming on with the game already lost.
Tait - Not on long enough but not a Full Back!
Freshwater - Didn't notice him sneak on with a couple of minutes left.
Borthwick - Not on long enough, should have replaced Kaye earlier.
Richards - Not on long enough.
Chuter - Not on long enough.
Coaching Staff 1. If there was a game plan the side failed to execute it. The Coaching Team does not appear to have had any impact on the style of play. Replacements made no impact. Selection of players out of position is ludicrous. Some of those selected do not merit selection.
Team for next week: God knows but assuming replacements are sought for Robinson and Noon perhaps:
15 Lewsey
14 Cueto
13 Hipkiss
12 Barkley
11 Tait
10 Wilkinson
9 Richards
1 Sheridan
2 Chuter
3 Stevens
4 Shaw
5 Borthwick
6 Moody
7 Rees
8 Easter
16 Gommersall
17 Farrell
18 Flood (Called up to replace Noon)
19 Freshwater
20 Mears
21 Corry
22 Worsley
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Though not a great fan of the oval ball game, watching last night was an embarrassment. The Boks were a team. England appeared simply to put what seemed like 14 old blokes and only one real player on the park. Only one Englishman was worth the shirt and his hamstring went under the incessant demands he placed upon it.
Jason Robinson take a bow lad and YOU can come home with YOUR head held high. No more to say really.
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Mark, I like your team and that is what I would probably opt for. However, is it just me or do you think it is too "lightweight" for suh a physical challenge as Samoa? I might opt for Farrel instea of Barkley (no doubt Wilko will get injured and we will probably need him to come on!). Plus, Dallagio instead of Rees?
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Therein lies the problem with English Rugby. To even suggest that Farrell defended and kicked well highlights the difference between the hemispheres. Until the North accepts without exception that these performances are unacceptable and excuses not sought, will they become competitive.
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Guys - the ratings are fair - The boks were just better - Dont forget Twickers just a few years ago - I paid 50 quid to see my team loose 53-3. The boks woke up, got rid of Rudy and Corne, found some talent and made a plan. England just brought back the old boys from retirement. Viva Samoa, and the lightness of vertigo.
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why the hell do people keep calling for tait at wing... its not misguided or illadvised... its stupid... look at last nights game... Paul Sackey, one of the most prolific wingers in English club rugby and european club rugby and he was totally out of his depth and people want to put Tait in?? for christ sake can people start thinking before they right...
lets be sensible while we're reshuffling the deck please... for example...
1. Sheridan
2. Regan (dodgy in the line time to time but chuter is a full fledged liability)
3. Stevens
4. Kay
5. Shaw
6. Moody
7. Rees
8. Easter
9. Perry (he'll redeem himself)
10. Wilkinson
11. Robinson (if not crippled, sackey if not but only cos no-one else)
12. Barkley
13. Tait
14. Cueto (world class WINGER... read my lips WIIIIING...GEEEEEERRRR for more information read "I am not an God Damn fullback")
15. Lewsey (for more information read "I am a world class fullback, play me in the right position since im doing the job anyway")
i dont see the point in living in the past anymore... yes before some of you point out robinson and co on the team sheet... to those i say i am clearly working a reshuffle purely within the confines of this 30 squad personally id have nick abendy-howeveryouspellit... cipriani... we have some awesome talent at home in the
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it was nice to see england's true colors.
england doesn't stand a chance... they might get lucky again in about 70 years. (kind of like soccer - i know it has been 41-)
england... you should be used to this.... you suck at sports.
stop living in the past, realize your true capabilities , which are almost none.
36 - 0 (what a joke, world champions? yeah sure you are LOL)
maybe the english should start looking at easier sports to compete in... ping pong
it was a good day for rugby fans yesterday
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What Can I say, The team does not need critism it needs help, Martin Johnson plz listen to country and become manager, do something quick we are the best team in the world we need to show it, we have been here before, and come back i will never give up on the team
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What Can I say, The team does not need critism it needs help, Martin Johnson plz listen to country and become manager, do something quick we are the best team in the world we need to show it, we have been here before, and come back i will never give up on the team
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O.K. so Farrel should not have continued with his long kick offs. But what did 'captain' Cory or 'experienced' Catt do to stop him? Either he totally ignored them - in which case he could have had kicking duties taken away from him, or we have striking evidence of weak leadership and a total lack of communication between the players on the field. The result was very little backing up, forwards going into rucks in 'ones' and no off loads as there was hardly ever anyone there to off load to!
Do memebers of the England team actually like each other? They don't seem to talk to each other on the field and they don't support each other on the field. Look how our football team's fortunes change when this happens.
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What Can I say, The team does not need critism it needs help, Martin Johnson plz listen to country and become manager, do something quick we are the best team in the world we need to show it, we have been here before, and come back i will never give up on the team
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England were clueless. Robinson deserved a 6 or 7 at best, but no-one else should be above a 5.
Everything was summed up in a first half incident - England win a scrum against the head in SA's half, the scrum has wheeled perfectly for quick ball to be spread out wide with SA not lined up in defence and Perry decides to go blind and the ball is kicked away. Stuart Barnes got it right (for once) in commentary - England have done nothing for four years, apart from bask in the glory of that win over Aus.
Shameful stuff.
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Last nights performance was totally inept, without insipiration, and was the result of really poor planning and team management. Jason Robinson was the only England player to demonstrate the calm confidence required and his was the only good performance in the circumstances.
Lets salvage some respectibility. Farrell is not up to standard. Noon and Sackey are outclassed. Perry is awful. Regan did not do the job effectively. Vickery is not in sufficient form to justify a starting place. Corry is not versatile enough for a back-row forward. Dallaglio has had his day.
That said, replace the injured Noon and Robinson. Also replace Wilkinson if he is less than 100% fit. Call up Flood and Geraghty as replacements. Replace Vickery with White (as an injury replacement hopefully - I am sure it can be worked out). My starting 15 would be:
15 Lewsey
14 Cueto
13 Hipkiss
12 Barkley
11 Tait
10 Geraghty
9 Gomersall
8 Easter
7 Rees
6 Moody
5 Kay
4 Shaw
3 Sheridan
2 Chuter
1 White
16 Richards
17 Freshwater
18 Corry
19 Worsley
20 Catt
21 Flood
22 Noon
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it was nice to see england's true colors.
england doesn't stand a chance... they might get lucky again in about 70 years. (kind of like soccer - i know it has been 41-)
england... you should be used to this.... you suck at sports.
stop living in the past, realize your true capabilities , which are almost none.
36 - 0 (what a joke, world champions? yeah sure you are LOL)
maybe the english should start looking at easier sports to compete in... ping pong
it was a good day for rugby fans yesterday
36 - 0
36 - 0
36 - 0
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Just a re-run of our recent performances.
The team is too old, but I am not too sure about the youngsters coming on. Tait is a good example - has he had a good game for England yet?
Too many foreign players in the Premiership - we are a big nation but our young players are not getting a chance when you can recruit Kiwis and South Pacific Islanders. Suppose trade laws prevent us restricting imports.
Catt - too old.
Farrell - experiment failed.
All our forwards - just not up to it.
Ponderous, no pace, no idea.
Robinson - I knew him at League, and knew he would be brilliant at Union.
Pity he didn't come when he was 21.
Ashton - experiment failed. But who to replace him? Woodward again?
Can't say that I am optimistic for the future.
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Well gents what i can't understand this morning is that the daily newspapers have been covering thier sports pages on the Chance of England retaining the World Cup BUT 2day there is not a letter, word or photo of their game v SA. I wonder why
Paul
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