Time to tell Fergie to ref off!
There weren't many surprises this weekend. Chelsea beating Man U after a pretty laboured performance. Another Blues winner featuring more jersey-tugging than your average Channel Island dairy farm.
Another offside, but then he wasn't interfering with play even though he missed it by millimetres and he wasn't offside anyway.
And of course the obligatory post-match ref-bash from the beaten Ferguson.
Frankly the Beeb get off lightly when the Glasgae Groan won't speak to them. If it's not Wiley's waistline, it's Atkinson's positioning.
Jeff Winter said on the radio that it's time refs got to give an opinion after the match. I agree. And if United get beat, just make sure you get to the mike before Sralex.
In fact if United get beat, just start your press conference in the centre circle, articulating all your answers to Fergie's inevitable criticisms.
Sir Alex vents his spleen at Stamford Bridge
Mike Phelan says Fergie has to make these comments 'cos he wants to improve the standard of refereeing. Ahem. Funny how when decisions go the way of his side the refereeing performance is never mentioned.
The bloke's Wiley wittering hasn't been dealt with yet and he's at it again! If I was at the FA, the Old Trafford stewards would be plumping up the velvet cushions for his knightship in the top tier of the main stand for the rest of the season.
As it is, he's dodged another bullet. The FA treat Fergie like some great bear that sits in their back garden and occasionally crushes the herbaceous borders. Every so often they try to shoo him off but he just turns round, growls and they all rush back inside and draw the curtains.
Of course Fergie's by no means alone in this relentless assault on the officials' abilities.
And the more tiresome Man U fans will point to the fact that his comments were justified. Well maybe. My mate Len - an Arsenal supporter and therefore confidently sat upon football's moral high ground - says that they need to start making football shirts out of Velcro patches.
That way, when Terry gets a piece of Rooney's shirt, he really gets a piece of Rooney's shirt. The ref can see it in his hand. Automatic booking and free kick. (It might also be worth covering the shoulders of centre-forwards and centre-backs alike with anti-climb paint.)
Of course the free-kick which led to the goal was a pretty fair challenge by the admirable Fletcher, but hell-fire, refereeing is a matter of interpretation not fact. And managers always resort to the cause-and-effect line of reasoning.
'If they hadn't have got the throw-in they wouldn't have won the free-kick and the keeper wouldn't have been diving over a dribbling toe-poke and we wouldn't be 1-0 down. And if it weren't for that goal I can't see where the other five would've come from, etc, etc.'
Steve Bruce described the decision by Mr Friend to award a penalty but not send Gomes off as the turning point at Spurs. Funny I thought the turning point was when Bent's weak spot-kick was saved.
In any case, how could Bent be deemed to have been denied a goalscoring opportunity when he was so far down when Gomes touched him that he was virtually grazing. He was going away from goal, any road.
Shearer says it's a penalty. I'm of a mind that it was a blatant dive, but the striker's managed to get a touch from the keeper and the ref's in an impossible position to judge. Rooney and Eduardo got away with similar stunts earlier in the season.
This is how footie is now. Bend the rules to suit your ends. It's not cheating. It's smart. Apparently.
Unless of course your team suffer. Then it's downright villainy. If only the managers were more consistent in their reasoning you wouldn't mind.
But wait, there was one surprise - an almighty surprise. David Haye spent the week shooting his mouth off and talking the talk like some desperately poor man's Ali.
It was marketed as David v Goliath, and David was sure he was going to knock the big man out (forgetting in his arrogance that David had five weighty stones and a blinking great slingshot and not just a fist the size of one of Goliath's molars.)
Haye parades the psoils of victory
Some folks gave him a prayer against Valuev, a man who looks like he's been put together by Fluck and Law and an industrial-sized crane.
Haye tried his best to wind up the Russian, even suggesting the big man smelt a bit off (that'd be the WBO champ, surely) but Valuev rose above it. (Well let's face it he could rise above the average observatory without too much problem).
The 'little' Brit went about the task with plenty of verve, although it was hard not to think of one of them birds that pecks the ticks off rhinos in Africa. But he kept pecking, did Haye, and gradually the Russian assumed more normal proportions. And amazingly, he even hurt the bloke in the last round.
Were it not for the fact that the two competitors were freakishly mismatched, you could easily have nodded off. But Haye deserved it, and proved himself to be a whole lot smarter than all his pre-match blabbering would've suggested.
Of course he's heavyweight champion of the world now. Although in boxing's madcap firmament there are four worlds. What's nice is it means the Klitschkos can have one each and their Mum and Dad don't have to deal with any sibling rivalry.
Don King, whose wild hair seems to be a few storeys less than it used to be, can take a fair share of the blame for this farce.
Are there any other sports, apart from darts, where this happens? Can you imagine it? Of the four world 1500m winners this year, which is the best? Of the four Premier League-winning sides next year (and even then none of them will be Liverpool) which is the best? Nonsense.
But well done Haye. And he's only 29 to boot - so at the current rate in his division he's only got another 16 years at the top. Cash in, son.
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I'm first Drogba was offside so there
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Tiresome. Lol.
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Some folks gave him a prayer against Valuev, a man who looks like he's been put together by Fluck and Law and an industrial-sized crane
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More like the Constructicons form Devastator the most powerful robot - he should rule.
Only he got beat by boxings equivalent of Bumblebee
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Well done david Haye. Superb!!!
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Bit disappointed - a blog about Charltons fall from Premier League contenders to Non-league FA Cup scalp and playing League 1 within just 2 seasons might have been better.
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Seriously though we have no gotten to the point where referees are a protected species.
Interpretation it is then. Well I interpret Robbo not to have a dislike of United (and Pool, and Chelsea etc etc), JDR to be a well rounded unbiased commentator and politicians to be all honest and only on the lookout for whats best for us all.
See how interpretations can be a complete load of horlicks at times?
The referees job is to get it right. If he doesn't then he should be hauled over the coals for it. IN EVERY MATCH.
Do you remember when you were at school and there was one lad who was always pants at footie. He wanted to be good and thought he should be given the same chance as the rest of the lads. Of course he wasn't because he was useless and he was never picked and constantly made fun of. Well these lads went on to grow up and become referees because they still think they know best and can never be wrong.
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Sunday analysis:
Chelsea-Man Utd
Nothing new to say on this one. Yes, it was probably a penalty. Yes, Rooney was onside. Yes, Evans should have been arrested for giving Drogba an epileptic fit. Yes, it was a foul by Drogba on Brown for the goal and he was interfering with play. However... yes, Fergie should shut up and get over it.
Hull v Stoke
Unexpectedly engaging encounter this one. Stoke should possibly have had a pen for the handball if Burnley got one against City, but it's a fiddy-fiddy. Nicky Barmby taking on Aboobilydoobily Faye was almost as comic as Juninho going toe-to-toe with Albert all those years ago. "1970's Football Superstar" Jimmy Bullard looked pretty handy as well. Good to see him back.
West Ham v Everton
Diamanti - why does he not start? Is he coming back from an injury or something? Cahill - should probably have been sent off. How oh how did Everton get anything from this one? That young kid Hines looked good again but could do with learning where the old onion bag is.
Wigan v Fulham
Approximately 5 people saw a goalkeeping masterclass from Kirkland and Schwarzer. Not sure Fulham deserved either the penalty or the free kick leading up to it. Not a bad game though. Commentary very rude about Wigan as a place. They did invent the pie, you know.
Nice one, Haye, by the way. Watched the fight and Valuev looked cumbersome at best. Tick-pecking bird analogy spot on!
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Robbo you are a first class idiot
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I do have to wonder if the ref was lenient on Chelsea after he realized that the yellow he showed Drogba for simulation was wrong and that Evans had indeed planted his studs into Drogba's chest, which should have resulted in a yellow for Evans and possibly, a penalty for Chelsea.
Drogba was sent off (for a second yellow) a few years back for a high foot when he went to trap a high through ball, unaware that a defender was mere feet away. Drogba caught him somewhere in the upper body, got the second yellow and the requisite red. There was really no good argument against it then, and there should not have been yesterday. The unfortunate resultant seizure from our friend Didier went a long way, I'm sure, to guaranteeing the ref would have little sympathy, I'm thinking...
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Bent's dive was just like Rooney's v Arsenal a few weeks back
however he was denied a pen in the first half so you could say that evens itself out
Ferguson continues to be a disgrace - i can't wait to see what the FA hit him with if they ever get round to punishing him for the Wiley outburst.
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adams - just writing about what interested me. Troubles in the shadow of the Valley of Death aren't up there.
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At 2:17pm on 09 Nov 2009, TommyOnion wrote:
Bent's dive was just like Rooney's v Arsenal a few weeks back
however he was denied a pen in the first half so you could say that evens itself out
Ferguson continues to be a disgrace - i can't wait to see what the FA hit him with if they ever get round to punishing him for the Wiley outburst.
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Can this be interpreted as tiresome?
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You've made a rod for your back here, Robbo! Insulting Fergie and mildly mocking the Scouse Reds all in one blog is a bit like shouting, "Why don't you all calm down and have a roast pork butty?" in Jerusalem.
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Gaz
It is IMPOSSIBLE for the ref to get it right every time. And every time United lose - with the possible exception of the Champs League no-show in May, Fergie's aim is unerring. It might be time to have two refs and video technology and a very bloody slow version of the game just to accommodate official perfection.
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#10 - Because he is within his rights to comment on the referees performance and he restricted his comments to that so he can't be punished for it. WIley's fitness was taken as personal but he wil probably claim that fitness and ability to keep up with play is part of performance criteria and therefore fair comment.
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Gaz, I mentioned to the 'more tiresome Man U fans' in the blog. What on earth made you think I was referring to you?
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I know it is impossible Robbo but shouldn't we be doing all in our power to make it as close as possible.
At the minute we are not. Fergie is not alone in his mutterings of course but so what, all of the managers who criticise a ref when he gets a decision wrong are correct in doing so. You don't honestly expect them to do it when it is another team involved though do you.
Surprisingly I have been banging on about 2 refs for years. Remember that Channel 4 show Howl at the Moon from years ago, I was on it saying it then.
The question is... "Is the current standard of refereeing acceptable?"
In my view it isn't and not just for United matches.
Is it in your view?
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At 2:21pm on 09 Nov 2009, Robbo Robson wrote:
Gaz, I mentioned to the 'more tiresome Man U fans' in the blog. What on earth made you think I was referring to you?
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I just have a very high opinion of myself.
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15. At 2:21pm on 09 Nov 2009, adampsb wrote:
WIley's fitness was taken as personal but he wil probably claim that fitness and ability to keep up with play is part of performance criteria and therefore fair comment.
and if he is shown to be perfectly fit and having kept up with play (outran the majority of outfield players, didn't he?) it will be proven unfair comment.
I still don't understand how he hasn't already been dealt with. We all know what was said. He's not denied saying it. The FA gave him time to explain himself, he did, it was unsatisfactory, hence they charged him - just get on and ban him - perhaps they're waiting for any ban to coincide with a Carling Cup fixture ?
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At 2:16pm on 09 Nov 2009, GazUtd wrote:
Do you remember when you were at school and there was one lad who was always pants at footie. He wanted to be good and thought he should be given the same chance as the rest of the lads. Of course he wasn't because he was useless and he was never picked and constantly made fun of. Well these lads went on to grow up and become referees because they still think they know best and can never be wrong.
Very well said Gaz. But then again there were bad tackles all over the place. Ref didnt call half of them but he made sure and called Fletcher's own with which he got the ball. And Brown got a foul in the box, why wasnt there a free kick???
My only consolation was that kick in the chest to Drogba by Evans.......
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Of the four Premier League-winning sides next year (and even then none of them will be Liverpool) which is the best?
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I liked that one. Looks like Beckham could end up with a league title in the USA if things keep up and if he can help Milan make up a 7 point gap he would be the First English player to win the league in 4 differnt countries and one of I would suspect very few people to win 2 seperate league titles in the same season
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If United had won in the same circumstances, I gurantee Robbo would hav done a blog about how SAF's frequent complaints had worked,blah blah nothern accent blah blah. I even saw some plank argue that there was Fergie time! Any road as Obama showed Hillary, its not in winning the big ones, its a delegate (in our case,points). United will have the most and 3 years in a row is NOT delusion.
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GRRRR!!! why robbo why??? i been sat here for the past 2 hours in my towel refreshing the bbc page hopin you would have something nice to say about UTD..but no. droga fouled brown,fletcher is the next roy keane.
and why was there someone brushing their teeth behind the chelsea dug out???? o.O
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I really do think that referees get pressured by the home crowd anywhere they officiate, whether it be Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge, the Emirates etc. So in a case like this, the crowd was pumped up and the ref was inclined to blow against Man U for trivialities. There is little to be done for stuff like this and at the same time, I wondered why the ref called off the match at promptly 95 mins. Wasnt there substitutions in injury time that you have to add on extra for or is it just me....
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I think Utd should get rid of Fletcher as soon as possible...
There's absolutely nothing wrong with him, in fact I think he's an outstanding player, it's just referees seem to always get Fletch's challenges wrong; at least if Scholesy's in midfield taking chunks out of the opposition, then the fouls and free-kicks are justified!
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‘they need to start making football shirts out of Velcro patches’.
Like the Velcro idea. I was thinking that instead of playing in shirts they should play in (painted) skins (only the shirts mind - keep the shorts well and truly on - we don’t need that sort of tugging on MOTD) but then players like Ryan Giggs would be at a disadvantage and seeing Andy Reid with his top off (shudder) nah…might try petitioning the women’s FA instead though…
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Refereeing standards are no better or worse than they've ever been. The only thing is that they have directives to follow such as booking players for taking their shirts off (really!) and we've all now got 700 angles to view the incident from in slow-mo and tear it to pieces.
Either we have to do as Robbo says and introduce video refs or stop whingeing, give the guys some leeway, and get on with it. And Fergie, being the "perfect gent" and a long-standing manager who has been the beneficiary and victim of these decisions for 23 years should know better. He should also be reprimanded for his mouthing off (come on, FA, sort it out), especially when half of Manchester, most of Surrey and a good portion of the Far East hangs on his every word. This man could start a war if he wanted to so should be more careful with his words. I'm sorry Utd fans, but this is true (and not me speaking as a Liverpool fan but as a human being with eyes, ears and a brain, such as it is).
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26. At 2:38pm on 09 Nov 2009, ZEUSFC wrote:
I think Utd should get rid of Fletcher as soon as possible...
There's absolutely nothing wrong with him, in fact I think he's an outstanding player, it's just referees seem to always get Fletch's challenges wrong
looked a foul to me, and the ref. i think fletcher just looks better as the level of quality around him has dropped.
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27. At 2:39pm on 09 Nov 2009, 0ldStafford wrote:
Like the Velcro idea. I was thinking that instead of playing in shirts they should play in (painted) skins (only the shirts mind - keep the shorts well and truly on - we don’t need that sort of tugging on MOTD) but then players like Ryan Giggs would be at a disadvantage and seeing Andy Reid with his top off (shudder) nah…might try petitioning the women’s FA instead though…
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Think you are on to something here. Let the ladies FA do their game a favour and see the viewer-ship sky-rocketing.
Plus, high healed trainers
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Didn't Sepp Blatter in one of his less lucid moments suggest tighter shorts for Ladies football?
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oh look, sepp blatter in disguise. how boring
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Imagine Victoria's Secret as kit supplier instead of Addidas or Nike.
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Ferguson dented the precious egos of the referees with his ill-advised and incorrect attack on Alan Wiley. Now we are seeing the fruits of that.
Watch this season as those debatable 50/50 decisions go against United.
This may sound paranoid, but I believe United are becoming the victims of the ref's association's bruised egos.
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eezy_squeezy: surely they are the victims of their own decision, to make the comment in the first place
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Chelsea-Man Utd. was pretty bad considering they are supposedly the best we have to offer; ditto Hayes-Valuev, and people still complain it is only the refs who are getting worse.
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good point, rab
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we should all feel ashamed at the terrible injustice that ManU constantly must fight - they're always getting the short end of the stick, constantly being robbed by biased/incompetent refs, Fergie always being undeservedly persecuted and punished...i can't go on typing with these tears of rage blinding me!
oh dear, Gaz - just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, eh?
i actually am starting to feel bad for you/adamp as your defense gets flimsier by the minute.
by the way - if you & Fergie would like a lesson on how to react to an own-goal, go ahead and watch Eduardo and Arsenal's first on Sat.
shame on you Robbo - the FA are always right...Ferguson, Alex that is.
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captainlazytim: Yes, to an extent I agree. As soon as Fergie made his comments about Wiley I realised he'd dropped himself and United in it. First off, Wiley was perfectly fit to ref the match, and secondly I think it was more than a touch of sour grapes from SAF.
However, I definitely sense a sea change when it comes to Man Utd and referees. And things like the failure to send off Jamie Carragher at Anfield for a blatant professional foul on Owen or the decision not to penalise Drogba for his judo throw on Brown yesterday only adds to my suspicions.
Sport at the highest levels is a matter of fine margins, and a ref can make all the difference with one or two decisions - whatever his motivation for making them is.
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Oh what fun times we live in.
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don't agree, how does that fit in with Drogba being booked for getting kicked in the chest?
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I heard a rumour that some other teams played this weekend.
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42. At 3:05pm on 09 Nov 2009, tommyb1982 wrote:
I heard a rumour that some other teams played this weekend.
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Nope, not until tonight.
When Birmingham play some mid-table side.
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MUFCTrini,
I think you should elaborate on your comment ...
"My only consolation was that kick in the chest to Drogba by Evans......."
I'm hoping it's a reference that the referee missed blowing for a foul, in Utd's favour - as opposed to a more malevolent undercurrent.
And if it is the former - then surely you are spoiling your own argument by cheering for a referee's mistake?!?
For the record - I like Johnny Evans and hate the way Drogba play acts. But in this case he was quite clearly hurt. Just didn't do himself any favours with the exaggerated writhing.
Yes the referee missed fouls from both sides. But in the main, every referee tries their best. As another posted said, the difference in modern day football is that every slice of action is covered by so many different camera angles. I think the problem is with the players themselves, thinking they can get away with things. I'd rather see a panel of ex-refs AND ex-pros sit every week and review contentious decisions and brandish (or rescind) cards post-match. True, that cannot un-alter the way games have already swung - but I bet it would make the cheats think twice in the long run.
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When Big Sam was our manager he upset more than a few referees and it seems like we are still paying the price even though he is long gone. In several key games against top opponents we have been on the end of:-
1 A penalty at Old Trafford (perfect tackle by Jlloyd on Ronaldo)
2 A disallowed goal against Liverpool (Cahill header - he touched noone)
3 A sending off against Liverpool (two dubious yellows)
4 A penalty against Chelsea (I'll accept that) but a sending off as well - do me a favour.
But as Mr Ferguson says himself, these things even themselves out over a season, so it looks like we only 'owe' Arsenal a penalty or a disallowed goal and everyones happy.
I'm not whinging, I can handle it because I have no choice.
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Of course we should want the best standard of refereeing possible. Atkinson could've been better positioned, yes. But the tug and tussle brigade of centre-back - and to be fair Terry and Carvalho are absolute masters of it and Carra's not far behind (notice how they often fling themselves to the ground in the act of taking out a defender just to make it appear a Lawro style six of one and half-a-dozen of the other challenge) - these fellas know where the ref is. They're not stupid (at least in terms of football nous - I can't really grade JT's CV academically).
If we are going to rule out all these sorts of challenges then we need Video Replays by the score and three extra officials minimum on the pitch. As it is the so-called assistant referees need to butch up - and I don't include the lasses who ran the line this weekend -and actually help as they do in US football when they throw a flag out to indicate foul play.
Refs aren't beyond criticism - but their job is made harder cos telly shows us about ten more angles than the ref has access to - and the players themselves seem unable to miss an opportunity to con the poor bloke. It's the hypocrisy I can't stand.
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45. At 3:10pm on 09 Nov 2009, Beer Women Football Chips wrote:
so it looks like we only 'owe' Arsenal a penalty or a disallowed goal and everyones happy.
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Dont start making excuses already BWFC! You know you are getting hit for 6.
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You're right. It doesn't particularly fit. However, having watched most of United's games this year, it is my opinion that (post Wiley) the referees have been wont to give United anything of a 50/50 nature.
As I said before, my opinion.
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Gaz... touché
BWFC (good name by the way) - you may not be whining, but that's a nice dossier you're building there!
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Robbly O wrote
and the players themselves seem unable to miss an opportunity to con the poor bloke. It's the hypocrisy I can't stand.
but if only those who never cheated were allowed to complain we'd have, well, no complaints. isn't the problem that the game accepts it as a necessary evil?
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Remember when we played footy on the school yard and you would line up all the kids, pick captains and then go through the humilation of choosing the best to worst players?
GazUtd is correct, there would be a kid out there who nobody wanted but I disagree with the comments about them turning into referee's. More than likely they turned into bitter and twisted "Managers", who in essence can never accept defeat, instead they focus on the one defenceless person they can have a go at.
The only complaint I have about Mr. Akinson's performance related to the time-keeping, if your going to add 3 mins of overtime at Old Trafford due to substitutions then be consistent in other games when a similar scenario is presented.
Mr. Ferguson must learn to accept defeat graciously, a long time has passed since he played on that school yard and I know it was not "fair" when he was always picked last, but get over it, life is not fair but most of us realize this a move on.
Good Blog Robbo. I bet you never got picked last on the old school yard???
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No need for extra officials on the pitch.
Just get a couple of blokes in the dug out a TV screen and the authority to over-rule the ref if he pulls a shocker.
Bar that, let it run.
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tommyb -
It's good to look back at injustice when we have been wolloped 0-4, 0-4 and 1-5
Football - could be moved lower down the list (8th after snooker) unless we pick up a bit.
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eezy_squeezy, you may be right. The subtle psychological effect that has served Utd so well, especially at home, for the last 15 years may now work against them for the rest of SAF's career. His disgraceful, unjust comments about Alan Wiley will not fade in the memory of referees, much as they may strive for impartiality. In the terrible, mud-slinging world of professional football, he unforgettably crossed a line that had never been crossed before.
Therefore I don't think it is paranoia, but I do think it's natural justice.
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oh i forgot to say.
Shine On you Crazy Lot.
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The fight on Saturday night was terrible, you might aswell put on the Benny Hill theme tune and watched Valuev chase him round the ring
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42. At 3:05pm on 09 Nov 2009, tommyb1982 wrote:
I heard a rumour that some other teams played this weekend.
Yes, didn't Boro lose again? Gareth Southgate must be smiling right now. 3rd to 10th in next to no time, at this rate League 1 beckons.
That one must have slipped your mind Robbo.......
(Mind you as a Wolves fan I'm not exactly laughing myself, although we did score three on Saturday lol)
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Haha, I love that mental image of Chelsea claiming squatter's rights at the top of the table DGthe3rd :)
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45. At 3:10pm on 09 Nov 2009, Beer Women Football Chips wrote:
But as Mr Ferguson says himself, these things even themselves out over a season
yet more nonsense from the knighted oaf !!! ;o)
these things absolutely NEVER even themselves out over a season - how could they possibly ?
I mean if you genuinely think, for example, Carragher should have been sent off v Man Utd, (you'd be wrong but let's move past that) how is that evened up at any point in the season?
Does Carragher's questionable sending off v Fulham make even a missed red card v Man Utd? If so who for and how? One presumes United think they would have got a draw or better had Carragher seen red, instead they got nothing and Liverpool got 3 points. Liverpool's subsequent failure at Fulham adds no points to United's total.
It's one of those football cliches that the slightest examination shows up to be a load of old Nani.
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Spitfire -
Love it when we play Arsenal, only trouble is I just can't see us getting anything anymore.
But that is also the reason why I do love it. Sometimes a result comes along that lasts the rest of the season. I live in hope.
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51. At 3:19pm on 09 Nov 2009, Dwilson903 wrote:
Remember when we played footy on the school yard and you would line up all the kids, pick captains and then go through the humilation of choosing the best to worst players?
pound to a penny Gaz was always the last picked
'You can have him...'
'No, we don't want him, you have him, he smells...'
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I wasn't last picked.
There was one fat lad who always was more excited in the showers afterwards who was last picked.
Anyway I was a keeper for the school so was always weird anyway.
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51. At 3:19pm on 09 Nov 2009, Dwilson903 wrote:
Remember when we played footy on the school yard and you would line up all the kids, pick captains and then go through the humilation of choosing the best to worst players?
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Ah school footie. kinda reminds me of my days as the psychotic GK who'd come charging out screaming at the striker in an attempt to stop him scoring because the defenders fancied themselves as strikers and left me to it.
Kinda wished I'd carried on after watching Gomes this wekend.
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Mr. Ferguson must learn to accept defeat graciously, a long time has passed since he played on that school yard and I know it was not "fair" when he was always picked last, but get over it, life is not fair but most of us realize this a move on
Dwilson903
Just shows how bitter some poor folk are. On a purely factual level this is pure nonsense as Ferguson went on to professional football whilst others in his school went on to more so-called ordinary careers. OK, he was hardly Marco Van Basten, but few are...
And it hardly needs mystic Meg to see that you're a bitter Liverpool fan who's chosen to ignore the roof falling in on his own team just to have a (rubbish) pop at Ferguson.
Good luck in the Europa League, son.
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61. At 3:28pm on 09 Nov 2009, Beer Women Football Chips wrote:
Spitfire -
Love it when we play Arsenal, only trouble is I just can't see us getting anything anymore.
But that is also the reason why I do love it. Sometimes a result comes along that lasts the rest of the season. I live in hope.
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I was just pulling your leg mate with the 'going to hit you for 6' blabber. I'll be smiling from ear to ear if we get all 3 points.
Now stop making me nervous.
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David Gilmour almost managed a sensible post, until he started on Ancelotti. The guy is class, DG3, learn to live with that.
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We are not Man U fans....
We are Manchester United fans or Man Utd fans.
Man U is an insult.
If you were a half decent journalist you would know this.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Where is JDR?
No Blue Bell so surely it must get an A+ this week.
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44. At 3:08pm on 09 Nov 2009, celery_schtick wrote:
Good points. However my overall view on stuff is that the refs are usually swayed by home crowds, 9 out of 10 times, calls go for the home team. Reason why Drogba got booked is because he does too much. True he did get a very harsh kick to chest but its the way he writhed on the ground as though it was his last few seconds...way too much
At 3:19pm on 09 Nov 2009, Dwilson903 wrote:
Very wrong. Gaz is correct. They turn out to be refs, not managers. How many refs you see out there are ex players as opposed to managers being ex players. People might say Fergie is bitter and lots of people dont like him but at the end of the day, if you dont have a manager that has passion and fire and willing to argue every point and demands to see perfection everywhere on the field, what do you have- Gareth Southgate?? (Sorry Robbo)
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At 3:35pm on 09 Nov 2009, tommyb1982 wrote:
You going tonight Onion?
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Don't be silly.
That would mean the fire brigade would have to come round to prise him from his armchair.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Can't believe there wasn't a mention about Evans Kung Fu kick on Drobra.
Mr. Ferguson, as Rafa would call him, failed to mention that Evans should be facing a 6 match ban.... 3 for the kick on Drogba and another 3 for the trip on Carvalho. Instead he was let off with one yellow.
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TommyB - I'd prefer it if you showed a minute amount of respect to the current English premier league champions rather than continue your pathetic and bitter tirade against us!
What are you chances of beating Birmingham tonight?
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It never ceases to amaze me how differently the BBC treats Fergie to other managers.
The weekend before (the one with countless red cards / instances of refereeing incompetence) everyone was seemingly complaining about the refs. Benitez, Allardyce, Moyes to name three, in midweek the usually calm and collected Roy Hodgson 'blasted the ref' after the Roma match and this weekend Bruce has been at it too. Wenger came out with some angry comments earlier this season (after the United match), Redknapp, Brown and Hughes have all had their post-match grumbles too. Managers are ALWAYS moaning about refereeing decisions (and let's be fair, quite rightly too).
But no big headlines on the BBC site and certainly no blogs dedicated to it.
Yet then when Ferguson complains (after THREE big decisions go against United) the BBC headline screams 'Ferguson in clear after ref blast' and then of course Robbo (in his usual quest for comments) writes the blog 'Time to tell Fergie to ref off!'.
Why the disparity?
Didn't he have every reason to rant about the (poor) decisions in his post-match interview? Every other manager does - although no other manager gets reported in quite the same way.
But nice work Robbo, I predict 500+ comments for this blog (I'm sure you and Phil McNulty have a competition to see who can get most comments).
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The FA treat Fergie like some great bear that sits in their back garden and occasionally crushes the herbaceous borders. Every so often they try to shoo him off but he just turns round, growls and they all rush back inside and draw the curtains.....
Absolute quality Robbo!!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66036KdvdaE&feature=player_embedded
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captainlazytim
cheers i will bare your suggestions in mind when i submit my next offering.
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76. At 3:38pm on 09 Nov 2009, WaxyGodfather wrote:
TommyB - I'd prefer it if you showed a minute amount of respect to the current English premier league champions rather than continue your pathetic and bitter tirade against us!
who cares what you'd prefer. you are not really a whole person, judging by your previous comments.
ferguson would get more respect if he was more gracious. if you want, you can argue that he wins more because he moans, but don't expect other fans to like his constant whining.
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At 3:43pm on 09 Nov 2009, davidgilmourthe3rd wrote:
captainlazytim
cheers i will bare your suggestions in mind when i submit my next offering
----
I won't.
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76. At 3:38pm on 09 Nov 2009, WaxyGodfather wrote:
TommyB - I'd prefer it if you showed a minute amount of respect to the current English premier league champions rather than continue your pathetic and bitter tirade against us!
What are you chances of beating Birmingham tonight?
Think they are lucky to get a point tonight. Birmingham is in form as of now
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eezy_squeezy
Good guess at my football allegances, but your Miss Marple skills need sharpening. I'm standing up for the referees, after berating them for many years I became one.
I was not the fat kid, I was not the one picked last, I did not smell, I was not the keeper.
In essence we are all sick and tired of Mr. Fergusons antics, his knighthood needs to revoked. The "bear" analogy used by Robbo is very, very accurate and like others commenting on his behavior we only desire that he "Shuts Up"
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DGt3, you probably won't believe this, but i am a Liverpool fan who thinks Wenger is a genius. I don't have a problem with rivalry, but i wish fans could appreciate quality.
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Anyway why is no one talking about the most important news of today if not this year....
Modern Warfare 2 is released at midnight tonight.
Does everyone think it will live up to its predecessor?
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85 you would seen as your own manager is a twit..lol
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no Gaz, but you'd need a mind to try, eh?
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Funny I thought the turning point was when Bent's weak spot-kick was saved.
In any case, how could Bent be deemed to have been denied a goalscoring opportunity when he was so far down when Gomes touched him that he was virtually grazing. He was going away from goal, any road.
-------------------------------------------------------
true...classic case of justice being served when he missed the pen.
it was a carbon copy of Rooney's dive, although maybe the ball was more "within reach" for Bent.
hate to see these given - if for nothing else, then because it discourages keepers from rushing out, which is one of the most exciting moments in football.
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Captlazytim
If i'm not a whole person what am i then? half a person???
What a stupid comment!
It's hardly suprising you are a Liverpool fan who is upset with your current situation and feels the need to lash out over the internet!
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Fergie can't say he's seen a bad ref 'til he sees some of the dross refereeing in League 1 these days.
Poor United fans, eh? They lose a match to a referee's decision. They don't know they're born. Try watching your own football club disintegrate before your eyes like Stockport have done, and go to see them every week expecting to lose. Then you can complain about only being 3rd in the Premiership.
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_ceiling_fan_
For all Robbo's avuncular charm, he, like everyone else in the football 'industry', has an agenda to push. The fact that the agenda appeals to the usual pathetic ABU brigade is a bonus for Robbo and his very busy blog as it adds at least a hundred extra (rabbit) nuggets from muppets like davidgilmour.
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70. At 3:35pm on 09 Nov 2009, tommyb1982 wrote:
You going tonight Onion? I'm really not sure how this one will pan out as they're a miserly lot, those Brummie Blues. If Torres and Gerrard are out we could really do with Aquilani (Aquilanus, surely? How many of him are there?) or Yossi coming out all guns blazing as they are a bugger to break down
Aye, i'm expecting us to emerge victorious, early goal would do us the World of good though. If we show the same commitment to the cause as in Lyon last week i think we'll be ok. A win will put us 5th, 4 points behind the mancs - not bad after a fairly shambolic start to the season.
I can't bring myself to contemplate any other outcome at the mo.
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Btw I am certainly not suggesting every manager doesn't have a tedious pop at officials - of course they do. Ferguson's been in the business for well over 20 years now and he shows no sign of getting any better. I saw UP with the grandkid yesterday and I think Fergie needs to tie some balloons to his house and fly off for a bit.
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73. At 3:37pm on 09 Nov 2009, GazUtd wrote:
At 3:35pm on 09 Nov 2009, tommyb1982 wrote:
You going tonight Onion?
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Don't be silly.
That would mean the fire brigade would have to come round to prise him from his armchair.
HAHA - still bitter about that one, eh Gaz?
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Waxy - you are a hole person...no, just a play on you being a caricature of a typical Man U fan, with the Waxy element included.
Just doesn't seem like you've thought it through. No-one is denying Ferguson's record, but there are very questionable elements to his management, including his reactions to losing games, and his inability to beat the best teams (Barca, Liverpool, Chelsea).
I am a Poolian, but recognise that the reason we are having a bad time is because the manager has made mistakes over players. Not bitterness making me lash out, but the saem thing as Robbe, boredom with the moaning. YOU LOST, MOVE ON.
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At 3:54pm on 09 Nov 2009, Robbo Robson wrote:
I saw UP with the grandkid yesterday
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Surely not.
That flat cap must be very forgiving age wise, you never look old enough.
Is it true what they say Robbo, is the worst thing about having a grandchild that you have to sleep with a granny?
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I'd just like to say how appalled I was with the behaviour of the Man Utd and Chelsea players on Sunday. Arguing with the referee, diving and feigning injury appears to be accepted fayre at the top level.
Along with 300 other sad souls I ook part in a 500 mile sojourn to watch Tooting & Mitcham get beaten 5-0 at Stockport on Saturday. It was great to see the Stockport players applaud the Tooting supporters at the end of the game and the Stockport fans were generous in their appreciation of the efforts of a lower league team. One team in administration, the other endeavouring to climb the pyramid. To me,these matches have far more meaning than watching the overpaid prima donnas (not to mention self-obsessed managers) flouncing around in the Premiership.
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Robbo Robson,
Great, bloody great, Ferguson flying off for a bit, hopefuly never to return, how lovely "peace at last, peace at last".
We can only dream.
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Robbo - SQUIRREL
i like that movie
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Onion - Fair enough. An early goal is the order of the day. Could do with one of the "other" strikers getting it, too. Would give their confidence a real boost. I'm heading off in about half an hour
Waxy - "pathetic and bitter", eh? That's a new one! Considering you're doing so well I'd like to suggest a healthy dose of stopping being grumpy! Would you like a hug?
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92. At 3:52pm on 09 Nov 2009, eezy_squeezy wrote:
_ceiling_fan_
For all Robbo's avuncular charm, he, like everyone else in the football 'industry', has an agenda to push. The fact that the agenda appeals to the usual pathetic ABU brigade is a bonus for Robbo and his very busy blog as it adds at least a hundred extra (rabbit) nuggets from muppets like davidgilmour.
_________________________________________________________________________
ABU brigade? ABULCMCNU brigade (and I've edited that) There is an ABU brigade but it's partly a United invention cos it makes 'em feel special. Mind you it's a good job I didn't do by ANyone But Boro blog cos I'd've sounded like a right moaning minnie.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
We enjoyed Fantastic MR. Fox in our house.(Is that what this blog is now reduced to?)
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Can we get a bit of perspective please - Fergie only said what he did about Wiley, after Wiley had made a comment too Rooney during the game about struggling to keep up. yes it was unfair and probably because we only drew, but there's no smoke without fire.
The ref and particularly the linesman cost United dear yesterday. I struggle to see how anyone can defend the decisons that went against United - Rooney offside, Valencia penalty, Fletcher's "foul", Drogba on Brown and then offside. Yes, every now and then a big decision will go against you that was wrong, but 5 in one game is ridiculous!! The only one Chelsea had to moan about was Evans on Drogba, which should have been ayellow, however he was only defending himself - watch the replay - Drogba is looking at Evans and running straight at him, not even attempting in any way to play the ball! imagine if Evans hadnt stuck out a leg and Drogba ran into him in mid air - could have had a very very serious injury! Drogba got what he deserved, and funnily enough, was clearly not as badly hurt as when he was shown the yellow, he went to go for the ref before remembering to be "hurt".
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I agree SAF shouldn't be so harsh in post match comments. Don't think the goal should have stood though. Drog was fouling Brown, was in offside position when Terry flicked ball on, and his attempt at reaching the ball would have affected VDS's dive. All of this over analysis detracts away from the game which was a good one. Shocked about David Haye, thought he was going to get absolutely Mullahed!
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akabarrington - I'm a County fan and thought you were a credit to your team, and the division. You created a better atmosphere than us, and I can tell you there were some complimentary words spoken about your team, certainly shouldn't have lost by 5 goals.
Also it's a shame our players couldn't swap shirts at the end, the club can only afford 30 for the season with our current financial situation.
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106 - "Mullahed?" Was he fighting Abu Hamza?
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97. At 3:58pm on 09 Nov 2009, GazUtd wrote:
At 3:54pm on 09 Nov 2009, Robbo Robson wrote:
Shame on you Gaz!! What a cheap shot
:)
At 3:57pm on 09 Nov 2009, captainlazytim wrote:
Just doesn't seem like you've thought it through. No-one is denying Ferguson's record, but there are very questionable elements to his management, including his reactions to losing games, and his inability to beat the best teams (Barca, Liverpool, Chelsea).
Very shortsighted sir. At the end of the day, the most consistent performer wins, Chelsea and Liverpool usually wins the battles but only one team wins the war, Manchester United. SAF management tactics are not a problem, and if they are, what would you say about the other managers in the EPL, bar Ancelotti since he is a newcomer??
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" muppets like davidgilmour. "
blimey thats a tad harsh even from a chav
now then lay back, close your eyes ,take deep breaths and relax.
if not open some wine and puff on a cigar.
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Robbo, I agree that Sir Alex should keep his mouth shut about referees now or at least make his comments constructive; call for a change in the current practice of all the burden being on one man, introducing video replays for all goals/penalty decisions etc. What I think is far worse than Sir Alex chatting about the refs is the backchat from players for every decision that goes against them. Refs need to grow a backbone, warn them and then just start carding players that question their decisions. Make all players call the Ref 'Sir' and only allow the Captains to approach him with problems. That would be a start....
On a final note, don't have a go at Man U fans and call them 'tedious' when your blog about it is far from a new position and could perhaps also be called 'tedious.' Fans have every right to be upset when the ref makes a bad decision and it ends up in a goal. On the flip-side, you however perhaps have no right to be so flippant and downright churlish about possibly the greatest/ most successful manager in footballing history. Just a thought...
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Yes by and large the decisions didn't go United's way but you know what, defending Evans just suggests you might just lack the necessary objectivity to comment.
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And the Jihad rolls on ....
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..and on and on...
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"Ferguson in clear after ref blast"
Should think so too! Fergie was spot on in his comments. Thought referees in Scotland were bad but, my god, these English lot really take the biscuit!
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Agree with you #111, although I described (in the blog) 'the more tiresome of United fans' which hardly refers to all of you. Unless you are by your own admission a tad dull. Which I doubt.
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MUFCTrini - i'd say that Rafa is the best tactician, but is being Fergie and Wenger in terms of scouting, and possibly in terms of getting players to play to their potential. This is based on the fact that he often wins big games by being better tactically (all the recent Man U results, for example), but cannot put a quality squad together, for whatever reason.
Wenger is a genius in terms of player development, but i feel he doesn't really have a 'Plan B' if he can't out-football his opponent.
Ferguson wins by having a higher average level of player, creating good team spirit and almost always winning the games he should against smaller teams.
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112. At 4:07pm on 09 Nov 2009, Robbo Robson wrote:
Yes by and large the decisions didn't go United's way but you know what, defending Evans just suggests you might just lack the necessary objectivity to comment
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Robbo, I wasnt defending Evans - I did mention he should have got a yellow, just pointing out it wasnt the vicious "attack" on Drogba that some of our fellow posters would like us to believe. I think the ref made up for it when booking him for getting the ball back off Carvalho anyway.
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There is an ABU brigade but it's partly a United invention cos it makes 'em feel special.
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So where are the "Big Sam eff off" "Hughes eff off" "Megson eff off" etc etc etc blogs?
We're special because we are the biggest.
And because our mummies told us so.
Some of us even went to "special" school.
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When United are on the receiving end of a big decision:
A passing mention to the poor decision; Ferguson blasted for criticizing ref.
When United get a big decision in their favour:
Headline news; The decision analysed from every angle; Opposing manager blasts referee but gains nothing but sympathy (after all, they would surely have won otherwise); Calls for video technology; Robbo leads with it in his blog, claiming referees are scared of Ferguson; outpourings of comments saying 'typical lucky United blah blah blah; 'BeyondThePale' claims the conspiracy goes much higher than the FA; widespread condemnation of referee forces referee to be demoted to Blue Square Premiership; etc
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That Socrates is a smart chap.
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it would have been so much better if carlo pulled out a machine gun and fergie reurned fire with a rocket launcher,just to get the game goin...
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Surely with all Sir Alex has achieved he has the right to have a little chunter every now and then...
...unlike one Phil Brown who finally got us a well deserved win then decided not to speak to the press AGAIN like some spoilt child. I just wish he'd realise we're not truly big time yet and it does us him no favours acting like that.
Ah well was lovely to silence the Stoke faithful. Not 'meat and drink' to your boys now eh? What a ridiculous turn of phrase.
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Reading many of these posts, I'm struck by, on the one hand, the defence of the integrity and the difficult job they do, of the referees, and on the other hand, the comments as in maybe SAF and United are only reaping the whirlwind of previous encounters with refs, and being on the right side of decisions.
Which begs the question that if the refs have integrity, why are people suggesting that refs are as it were, hitting back? It's either integrity earning respect or it isn't.
And how come SAF's ok to make this latest attack, which is absolutely justified, and which obviously the refs don't feel they have an argument about, but not ok when the refs don't think it's justified.
Where's respect then? If you're right it's not a problem but if you are wrong, it's disrespectful.
Truly flawed argument here in my opinion.
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Truly flawed argument here in my opinion.
-----
When passion, bias and compulsion are involved you can never have anything but.
Oh, and Robbo, he's always the start of it.
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117. At 4:11pm on 09 Nov 2009, captainlazytim wrote:
Absolutely spot on!!! Have no arguments with you on this one but however I would like to point out Fergie is also a top tactician who gambles a lot and is not afraid of doing things out of the ordinary ie. signing Owen, bringing on Macheda at the right times etc
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blimey the blog has been invaded by an army from 606 under different screenames.
maybe the beeb will make greater haste in the new ID System to incorporate one name = one account to access all services then we will all know who the muppets or nuggets really are. should be easy peezy nace and squeezy.
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126. At 4:17pm on 09 Nov 2009, MUFCTrini wrote:
117. At 4:11pm on 09 Nov 2009, captainlazytim wrote:
Absolutely spot on!!! Have no arguments with you on this one but however I would like to point out Fergie is also a top tactician who gambles a lot
what with that, his anger management issues and his drinking he really should seek help...
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ahh 606..the good old days...where is the SirJackTruEst.1979?..he allways had a good view on things..lol
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127. At 4:19pm on 09 Nov 2009, davidgilmourthe3rd wrote:
blimey the blog has been invaded by an army from 606 under different screenames.
indeed - anyone would think Man Utd lost at the weekend the way it's kicked off here
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Ok, Photoshop class finished (during which I got a telling off from teacher for seeming writing an essay instead of using photoshop.)
Anyway I'm off to mock up a pic of Robbo in bed with Rafa while Arsene is voyeuring through the window and Fergie is beating up a ref in the corner of the room.
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DG3 nice and squeezy does it
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do asda's sell nail clippers?
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131. At 4:23pm on 09 Nov 2009, GazUtd wrote:
Anyway I'm off to mock up a pic of Robbo in bed with Rafa while Arsene is voyeuring through the window and Fergie is beating up a ref in the corner of the room.
regular porn just isn't enough for some people...
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I noticed in the Chelsea v Man Utd game that the board went up for 5 minutes injury time, in that time a substitution was made, but the ref blew for full time after 5 minutes and 3 seconds.
The 30 extra seconds definitely wasn't added on (is it actually a rule?). Did Ferguson notice or mention that?
(apologies if already commented upon, in a rush before i leave work!)
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Not a bad effort Robbo although you seem to have peeved many of your usually loyal followers. I happen to agree with you though.
If this blog proves anything its that people just find it hard to be rational and objective about their own team. Someone made a good post on the last blog saying that when a team is winning, any slags are insults from the fans is easily passed off as just a bit of banter but fast forward a few games until a decisin goes against them and suddenly its all bitterness.
Your correct in your assessment that it would be easier to take these managers seriously if they could even show a hint of objectivity but they cant and they forget all too easily decisions that have gone their way previously.
I think a measure of technology should be introduced or at least more referees/assistants. The old "linesmen" are supposed to be assistants now but football has never really incorporated this effectively. The assistant referees are still basically just looking for offsides and are rarely consulted in the big decisions. Relying on one man to do everything and be in the right place with the right angle everytime is a bit naive and will inneviteably lead to mistakes. Sports like NFL and Rugby have a much more integrated role between officials and I think this is more effective and in the event that theres still a real refusal to use technology than further input from assistants and having more officials should be neccessary.
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128. At 4:20pm on 09 Nov 2009, TommyOnion wrote:
126. At 4:17pm on 09 Nov 2009, MUFCTrini wrote:
what with that, his anger management issues and his drinking he really should seek help...
Now why would you go there?? I dont believe a mid table club like yours can afford to make such a comment because clearly a sober person like Rafa does not know how to assemble a proper team that is not based on 2 injury prone players.
Tsk tsk tsk bitter bitter bitter
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it was a joke, you great lemon
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Joe, do you watch rugby? League or union?
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C'mon Robbo, it's in everyone's nature to complain about bad refereeing decisions. If thousands of people do it at home why shouldn't managers be able to? Obviously accept the failures of your own team (before you say the only thing Manchester United failed to do was score, besides that it was a great performance, especially as everyone was writing us off), but if a major refereeing decision that video replays can clearly show was wrong significantly affects the game then the manager has a right to complain. Referees shouldn't be immune from criticism - they have to earn it on the pitch.
Some matter less than others but if Boro are in the playoff final at 0-0 and suddenly the opposition team gets a 90th minute extremely dodgy penalty which is clearly a dive, your keeper gets sent off and they score the resulting penalty and go to the Premier League, despite Middlesborough playing a lot better and being denied the chance to go ahead by the ref, you have every right to complain. And as should your manager, he should represent his players and his fans. I reckon every time a manager makes a complaint it puts all these stubborn football associations under more pressure to introduce video technology and the like. The longer football gets away without any sort of video technology the longer we'll have to have these big old debates.
Also, despite what a lot of people say it wouldn't be particularly hard to implement. You could literally have an extra official sitting in front of a replay telly linked up with a headset to the ref to tell him what's happened and what he should do. Won't take longer than all the controversy that we get for decisions at the moment.
I'd actually happily not benefit from dodgy decisions if it meant my team didn't have to suffer from them. Makes a win a lot more satisfying and actually deserved, gives less for the other fans to complain about and generally makes the game a lot fairer.
What do you think?
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JDR Good read bloke. Excellent point with the refs. The assistant linesmen should really be used a lot more with decision making instead of just offside calls alone. But I doubt this will happen.
Gaz,
Very disturbing image. Just about to go order lunch but I have to wait another hour for my stomach to settle
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JDR, that's me you're quoting there. I've made it now!
If you're going to start checking important decisions, how about checking every single little decision? The problem is that an NFL game lasts about 3 hours when it should last 4 x 15 minute quarters (i.e. an hour and a bit with short breaks for bagels and twinkies, whatever they are).
For professional fouls, penalties and "did it cross the line?" incidents, I see no problem. But where do you draw the line?
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brownbeartim wrote:
you however perhaps have no right to be so flippant and downright churlish about possibly the greatest/ most successful manager in footballing history. Just a thought...
----------------------------------------------------------
that's a thought allright - a very sad one.
this idea that Fergie is beyond reproach due to his impressive CV is troubling. i don't care who you are or where you've been - if your behaviour stinks, you should be held accountable.
by your reasoning, we should look the other way as a successful businessman spits on a beggar as he passes by... hasn't he earned the right to?
as for "greatest manager" in history... nice use of hyperbole!
i very much liked what you said about players' treatment of refs, though.
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143. At 4:35pm on 09 Nov 2009, DenistheGenius wrote:
"....by your reasoning, we should look the other way as a successful businessman spits on a beggar as he passes by... hasn't he earned the right to?"
Denis... quality analogy! We are choosy beggars aren't we?
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they should allow 3 challenges per match, for any offence, like they do in a set of tennis
the challenge can only be made by the managers and they aren't allowed a TV screen in the dug-outs
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127,
If that was aimed at me, I'm terribly sorry. Didn't know this was a closed shop.
I am already on this account, but added "viva" to my username in a spot of fun-filled frolicking with others on 606 the other day.
So anyway, your opinion on my argument, or is it not worth it?
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ohh its bllooomin great bein a Gooner.
the negativity is all but vanquished.
scoreing goals, from all positions ( includeing wicked deflections )
sitting second with a game in hand
and sitting back with this bottle of nuet st george, new job on wednesday.
picking the six numbers on sats roll over lottery alas the wrong ones.
and now waiting for Gaz's picture fest. can you make them semi clad please i want something left to my imagination cheers. plus i might be having steak for tea.
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Onion... what about a little headset and mic? Don't pick on "beleaguered" Phil Broon!
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139. At 4:32pm on 09 Nov 2009, captainlazytim wrote:
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I watch both but alot more Rugby Union than League.
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142. At 4:34pm on 09 Nov 2009, tommyb1982 wrote:
I wouldnt stop the game at every opportunity but in NFL and to a lesser extent Rugby, if the officials see a foul the flag it and the ref can then choose to stop the game and consult with them.
Assistant referees in football dont do this enough. They arent really consultant and dont look to get involved in big decisions. They primarily just control touchline issues. Additional eyes on the field and decision makers is naturally going to give the refs an easier job. Refs behind the goals for penalty box incidents would be a good idea rather than relying on a single ref to be covering everything round the field. Basically just a better support system for refs. More eyes and more angles will result in better decisions.
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148. At 4:41pm on 09 Nov 2009, tommyb1982 wrote:
Onion... what about a little headset and mic
what about it?
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142. At 4:34pm on 09 Nov 2009, tommyb1982 wrote:
... and twinkies, whatever they are).
Twinkies are a fictitious candy product only shown in American Film and TV programmes to confuse the rest of the world. (They were first introduced in the film 'Die Hard' to remove the cliched doughnut from the overweight cop)
Is this off topic?
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So to summarise Robbo in 3 sentences:
Robbo has a dig at Rafa, Mancs laugh, Scousers get mardy, Gunners laugh.
Robbo has a dig at SAF, Mancs get mardy, Scousers laugh, Gunners laugh.
Robbo has a dig at Newcastle, everyone laughs.
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Feel Steve was a little off the mark with his idea that Gomes should have been sent off as stopped goal scoring opportunity. Having watched Darren Bent for the last few years, it is obvious that with this bloke their is no such thing as a goal scoring opportunity!! Another of his games to be filed in the "My Missus could have done better" catogory!!
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Tommy - you said no tv's in the dugout. Would they be allowed a little headset and mic or would that be breaking the rules as well? Pay attention, man.
JDR - maybe, but I am yet to be convinced, and we won't really know until it is tried which is the real issue. They work in rugby after a lot of honing of the rules, but they made test match cricket interminably slow (some would ask if it could have got any slower, I realise) and disrupted the play to a farcical extent. I suppose it depends how complex the rules of each game are, and if it works in rugby it can work anywhere, so involved are the rules.
SouthernFairy - thank you. Every day's a school day!
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Derek, nice blog mate... always a fan as well you know sir. I didn't read it but it looked like young Joseph was even in favour of this one... A success...
I would just like to say, that often Liverpool followers on this blog appear to be the more petulent... today that has changed? An air of bitterness has swept in from Surrey and it proves what i have always thought... You are as bad as each other.
A lot of schtick being given to TommyB... unfairly. He is one of the rarest of gods creatures, a level headed and fair liverpool fan...
I hate Manu and Scouserpool oh so very much... And Chelsea deserved the win at the weekend. I hear many times how you make you own luck, and that united play on till the end... If they did not do it, then you can't complain...
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" I think a measure of technology should be introduced or at least more referees/assistants. The old "linesmen" are supposed to be assistants now but football has never really incorporated this effectively. The assistant referees are still basically just looking for offsides and are rarely consulted in the big decisions. Relying on one man to do everything and be in the right place with the right angle everytime is a bit naive and will inneviteably lead to mistakes. Sports like NFL and Rugby have a much more integrated role between officials and I think this is more effective and in the event that theres still a real refusal to use technology than further input from assistants and having more officials should be neccessary. "
Spot On.
and to Viva_eastlancsmanc
go ahead mate this is not a closed shop all are welcome here
127 ? hmmm i just might use them 3 on my lotto ticket could be a good omen. I was merely commenting on an invasion of " the more tiresome Man U fans " many of which along with pool surporters seem to engage in tribal warfare at any given opportunity on 606.
and as i say its very relaxing being a gooner these days.
Its also very relaxing on this blog as well as its not just about footy and if you stick around you will see what i mean. We have a very moderate moderation team and there is much to learn from sticking around.
The same could be said of phil's if only he would despense with the pre-moderated stuff.
anyways , have fun.
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He he he he... like the bit about United !
http://jonnyontheball.blogspot.com/
... mind you maybe that is because I'm a Chelsea man...
Love it...
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154. At 4:52pm on 09 Nov 2009, tommyb1982 wrote:
Tommy - you said no tv's in the dugout. Would they be allowed a little headset and mic or would that be breaking the rules as well?
nope - they watch the game, if they want to challenge a refs decision they've got 20 seconds (4th official can monitor this) to do so. They can do it by chucking a yellow flag on the pitch - like the officials in NFL.
If they get it right on the TV replay they keep their 3 challenges and so forth.
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154. At 4:52pm on 09 Nov 2009, tommyb1982 wrote:
SouthernFairy - thank you. Every day's a school day!
No need to thank me, it was all a lie. (Apart from there being an overweight cop in Die Hard, which is a great film).
Is this now off topic?
ps. I'd like to point out I have nothing against overweight cops, they are doing a good job, even if a little slower than a normal cop.
pps. I think I've gone too far.
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Alderhot have Kevin Dillon as our new manger... I think this is a good appointment, he was number 2 for Coppel for a long time and know his stuff... i think a team doing well like ours in our legue will be a great challenge for the guy... Good luck to the man...
(Yes if you look hard enough you will another 88 teams in the football league underneath the top 4)
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Hey Derek Robson. People call you Robbo.. or they may call you whatever. Till they don't take you seriously, suggest stay away from SIR Alex Ferguson.. He is called SIR for a reason!
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SouthernFairy - Would Alan Wiley be allowed to be a cop?
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154. At 4:52pm on 09 Nov 2009, tommyb1982 wrote:
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The system would no doubt need testing but if you consider the most contentious issue - the penalty box. Having an assistant or two behind the goal whos sole job is to view penalty box incidents would be a big help. The ref cant be in a great position every time so if theres a penalty shout one of the assistants raises a flag if they think its a penalty and if not play goes on. There will still be human error of course but essentially its the same decision the ref makes from a superior angle and you can always garauntee they will be in a good spot. Likewise for ball crossing the line incidents. Outside the box there will still be decisions but in general seldom ones with as big a potential impact. I dont feel this would slow the game down much more. I think most would agree that the refs do have a difficult job and need additional support. The assistant ref concept hasnt really been fully incorporated.
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Re video, I've noticed lately there's more and more people calling for the use of video technology.
This may help with goalline decissions, but in other cases the technology might just churn up even more arguements.
Some issues will still be down to interpretation, fouls, diving etc. A perfect example of this would be Chelsea's goal yesterday, was Drogba offside/onside or intefering with play or not? I´m sure most of us here has seen this incident, with the benifit of slo-mo etc, Yet still opinion on what happened is divided.
Will video tech really make the game better? I´m not sure yet.
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* 161. At 5:02pm on 09 Nov 2009, Sunny wrote:
Hey Derek Robson. People call you Robbo.. or they may call you whatever. Till they don't take you seriously, suggest stay away from SIR Alex Ferguson.. He is called SIR for a reason!
________
What's to take seriously? It's a light hearted waffle/rant by a fictional character (not a flame, just saying :P).
Now SIR Bobby Robson. There's a bloke who garnered respect.
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RBA - cheers mate! I can take it though. I'm well 'ard!
Sunny/Weassel - there's always Sir Alan Stamford or Sir Fred Goodwin though!
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hese things absolutely NEVER even themselves out over a season - how could they possibly ?
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Because Utd may have a similar situation where one of their players are not red-carded and get a draw or win that they may not otherwise have got so yes it can even itself out and while Fulham winning did not add any points to our total it made sure that Liverpool lost the ground that they had made up when we lost at Anfield teh previous week.
So yes it can even itself up over a season as some decisions that should go your way won't but others that shouldn't go your way will and it is often the latter than can be the most decisive
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I'm sure in the Liverpool v Man Utd game a couple of weeks ago Man Utd were denied a penalty on the grounds that Carragher took the ball before taking out Carrick. Using the same logic Fletcher's challenge on Cole was fair as was Jonny Evans' challenge on Drogba. Both took the ball first and therefore the follow through doesn't matter. The only mistake Evans made was aiming too low and not taking Drogba's head off.
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I just wish "Sralex" would swap his chewing gum for gobstoppers.
I too am getting increasingly bored and annoyed with his childish rantings. He makes Rafa Benitez look positively serene by comparison.
As someone already pointed out, its funny how he never has a problem with the match officials, as long as his side are winning.
His seriously bad attitude is the one reason I could never respect him, no matter how many trophies he's won.
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151. At 4:43pm on 09 Nov 2009, SouthernFairy wrote:
142. At 4:34pm on 09 Nov 2009, tommyb1982 wrote:
... and twinkies, whatever they are).
Twinkies are a fictitious candy product only shown in American Film and TV programmes to confuse the rest of the world. (They were first introduced in the film 'Die Hard' to remove the cliched doughnut from the overweight cop)
-----
Twinkies are real. I remember them being advertised in Marvel comic books from America that I used to read in the 1970's as a young child.
Here is evidence of their existence-
http://www.hostesscakes.com/twinkies.asp
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The thing about Rugbys officials is that they all work in unison and one the benifits are the incidents of the ball which in football go unseen and thus unpunished.
obviously football is far faster game and as such perhaps additional linesmen are needed so they cover half the ground they try and do at the momment in order to keep up with play properly and effectivly.
the idea of two refs on the field is not on, so for his benifit video replays would be of benifit, would it really take that long to confirm wether there was contact when awarding a pen or free kick in a dangerous position plus this would be added time on ( most mancs would love that bit ) specially af and would help to quieten him down a tad.
with respect we have moved on since the old days, there is far to much money involved now and so much at stake for all clubs wether they be at the top or the bottom, to be on the wrong end of a refs decision due to his incorrect positioning or lack of fitness is one thing to be cheated out of a result by actors and divers is another and it is the latter that needs addressing and fast!
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exactly correct on the ref criticism and fergie- thats just footy and some feel they are more deserving. perhaps justified given their records, however, the blinders do seem to pop up at the most appropriate times, don't they? as for fergie i think he is doing this to draw the attention away from the problems in the team, much like mourinho did w/ chelsea, but in a different way...even though they are young i can see arsenal taking the title this year. w/out the silly mistake everybody saw what happened against manu and i doubt that will happen again. if they take the points from chelsea i think they will do it esp if chelsea lose points during ACN as expected...finally, hargreaves could be the savior for manu and play spoiler to the other two- boy do they need that kind of class at the moment...
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167. At 5:10pm on 09 Nov 2009, adampsb wrote:
hese things absolutely NEVER even themselves out over a season - how could they possibly ?
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Because Utd may have a similar situation where one of their players are not red-carded and get a draw or win that they may not otherwise have got so yes it can even itself out and while Fulham winning did not add any points to our total it made sure that Liverpool lost the ground that they had made up when we lost at Anfield teh previous week.
except it didn't
we got 3 points and denied Man Utd any, had United got a draw following Carragher's sending off - which is what most complainants seemed to be inferring, they'd have got a point, Liverpool would have got a point.
Achieving a point or none at Fulham a week later has no bearing on this.
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Right, I'm off to the match (or, more immediately, the pub). See you jokers later when I will doubtless post something I'll regret
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I think the Velcro idea is a Rip off
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168. At 5:10pm on 09 Nov 2009, ColchesterFC wrote:
I'm sure in the Liverpool v Man Utd game a couple of weeks ago Man Utd were denied a penalty on the grounds that Carragher took the ball before taking out Carrick. Using the same logic Fletcher's challenge on Cole was fair as was Jonny Evans' challenge on Drogba. Both took the ball first and therefore the follow through doesn't matter. The only mistake Evans made was aiming too low and not taking Drogba's head off.
It's not about applying logic to 2 instances weeks apart though, is it? It's about a referee making a decision in a split second based upon what they see in front of them.
Drogba's leg wobble is still making me laugh, btw.
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Robbo, this a a bad blog, i have no complain about what sir alex done, chelseas goal should notof been a goal, i think you would do the same thing if a team scored a goal against ur teamm and that goal shoukd of not been a goal, we all can see you just hate alex fergusan, just like your other blog, can't u be fair?
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Can I just say (guess I will) this blog is a testament to how genius a manger AF is.
The defending champions had a mid field unbecoming of a champion. Dont you honestly think Fletcher was just ordinary (dont know what people are on about, he is no Hargereaves/Scholes), Carrick rubbish, Valencia cant fill the gaping hole left by the gelled tumbler (had only one moment / just one chance in the whole match).
Now, instead of getting into the individual performances (or lack thereof) of the United players (or of Chelsea players for that matter who had the man of the match in Anelka BTW) all and sundry are on about the ref. And that is how you protect your players.
The ref had a poor game but he was even handed.
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http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/3226/rrbed.jpg
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except it didn't
we got 3 points and denied Man Utd any, had United got a draw following Carragher's sending off - which is what most complainants seemed to be inferring, they'd have got a point, Liverpool would have got a point.
Achieving a point or none at Fulham a week later has no bearing on this.
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Yes it does as the gap before United played Liverpool was 7 points. It then narrowed to 4 and then aas Utd won and Liverpool lost went back to 7 so yes it does have a bearing and did even itself out as the gap remained 7 points so teh loss at anfield wasn't as significant as it could have been had you won as now if you beat Birmingham the gap will be 4 points instead of 1.
Statistical proof that things even themselves out over the season
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Twinkies
are Tellytubbys even i know that.
also according to certain areas within the arts and entertainment industry they are young persons normaly male who make up the majority of the chavs surporters base.
however i would like to state dance and trance music is mustard and is a great night out as well.
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Robbo:
Long time reader, and first time blogger. Pundist need to lighten up when they read your posts. People are entitled to their opinions, but they shouldn't misconstrue yours. Sometimes the truth hurts.........even for Liverpool fans as of late.
Southern Fairy:
Twinkies did not make their theatrical debut in Die Hard. Ghostbusters came out way before that, and I'm sure that's not the first either.
Twinkies are very real...........and they are among.
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Yes, Twinkies are real. If you have ever seen the movie MILK depicting the life of "Harvey Milk" his assailant Dan White used the Twinkie defence to get a 1st degree muder charge reduced to manslaughter. Apparently White consumed a lot of twinkies, driving up his sugar levels and thus pushing him over the edge.
I'm full of useless information.
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you however perhaps have no right to be so flippant and downright churlish about possibly the greatest/ most successful manager in footballing history. Just a thought...
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that's a thought allright - a very sad one.
this idea that Fergie is beyond reproach due to his impressive CV is troubling. i don't care who you are or where you've been - if your behaviour stinks, you should be held accountable.
by your reasoning, we should look the other way as a successful businessman spits on a beggar as he passes by... hasn't he earned the right to?
as for "greatest manager" in history... nice use of hyperbole!
i very much liked what you said about players' treatment of refs, though.
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DenistheGenius, I get your point but I don't think you got mine. I don't think that he shouldn't be above the law or beyond recrimination, no-one should. My problem is with Robbo (and others on this board) personally attacking possibly the greatest/most successful manager in the world using childish, degrading comments. I don't believe he is right to question the ref but neither would I tell him to shove his wine bottle up his $*$% or float off for a break in his makebelieve balloon, I think that is very disrespectful.
By the way, using the word greatest is not a hyperbole, who else has won more titles than him in such a top league? It is possible that you measure 'greatest' by other criteria which is why I caveated it with the words 'most successful.'
Loved the businessman/tramp analogy by the way, very creative. ;)
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"Of the four Premier League-winning sides next year (and even then none of them will be Liverpool) which is the best?"
Good question. We should have a play-off between randomly chosen three and Liverpool, who qualify by having won a league many years ago.
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" therefore the follow through doesn't matter. "
if your own your own id agree but in company it can have devastating affects on ones moral, self esteem and promotional prospects and bang goes the chance of pulling that bird as well.
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178 Spot on there Spit mate.
Also Arsenal are flying high yet are still managing to stay under the media´s rader. (Fine by me)
And why aren´t we all having a great big laugh at Man City, surely after the last few weeks results some bloggers need to be putting the boot in.
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180. At 5:23pm on 09 Nov 2009, adampsb wrote:
Yes it does as the gap before United played Liverpool was 7 points. It then narrowed to 4 and then aas Utd won and Liverpool lost went back to 7 so yes it does have a bearing and did even itself out as the gap remained 7 points so teh loss at anfield wasn't as significant as it could have been had you won as now if you beat Birmingham the gap will be 4 points instead of 1.
Statistical proof that things even themselves out over the season
how ironic that United like you suffer a missed point ?
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Think Arsenal need all the help they can get to stay under the radar and come May, lift the trophy. Rafa slating AF and AF slating everyone, Chelsea losing ground coz the african players were away and Drogba get injured (nothing life threatening mind, I am no cruel being, just want him to spend more time with his son so he may get sense beaten into him), Villa doing whatever they do to stay clear of the top of the board and Manchester City providing us with something to smile every weekend.
Thats about it. Did I miss any team?
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Attila The Hun and Hitler have all gone down in history. It does not mean we like them.
Mr. Ferguson's rants are jepordizing his "legend" status.
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Rooney saying "12 men". Couldn't Rooney have said, "We are not yet used to playing with only 11 men". It would have been truthful and avoided the caution too.
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Late in they day to finally get on here, but just had to ask whether you actually watch football Robbo, or whether you - like Cheryl Cole - just listen to the views of those around you to help you form your ill judged opinions?
You may not like Sir Alex, but he was right in what he said. The goal shouldn't have stood, for two separate fouls from a freekick which shouldn't have been given.
And in this day and age, with the money associated with the sport, the standards should be far better than they are. Rugby, Cricket, Tennis and even Hockey all use technology combined with an allowance of appeals for each side to query decisions.
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If it had been the other way round and a Chelsea player had made the Fletcher tackle on a Man Utd player and Utd had scored from it would Sralex or the Utd fans honestly still feel the same, I very much doubt it.
I was more concerned with Andy Gray’s usual bias against Chelsea, or maybe it’s just the fact that he’s just afraid to criticise Utd.
Evans tackle was one of the worst you’ll see this season and Andy Gray just laughed and said that must have hurt Drogba a little bit, but he’ll be alright in a minute.
Valencia was also lucky not to be sent off for his flying two footed flying tackle against Lampard. I thought if you became airborne it was supposed to be an automatic red, as in the other game yesterday, once again Gray said nothing.
The man had to defend himself in his autobiography about his dislike of Chelsea and apparently nothing has changed.
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94. Robbo Robson
"Btw I am certainly not suggesting every manager doesn't have a tedious pop at officials - of course they do."
My point precisely...
You don't dedicate blogs to those managers (using phrases like 'ref-bashing', 'inevitable criticism') and you don't invent analogies about bears and nicknames like 'Glaswegian Groan', do you? It's all a bit desperate in my opinion.
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If the decision had been wrong, most would admit it. Chelsea deserved nothing more than a draw from the game, if even that.
Lampard should have given a penalty away from an obvious handball as he tried to jump and block the cross from O'Shea. To say the ref was even-handed is just laughable.
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H2H
as a twinky would say its to tight to call. a bigger gap is whats needed.
BeyondThePale : nice pic so Robbo's a twinky then
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195. At 5:45pm on 09 Nov 2009, GenesisRed wrote:
To say the ref was even-handed is just laughable.
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Lets just do a simple exercise.
Do united fans think there were any decisions that should have gone Chelsea's way, that the ref got wrong ?
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interesting how you see it fine to critisice feguson but dont like him critiscing other people. i agree with phelan referees are the only ones the can't critisice in professional football.
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'Some folks gave him a prayer against Valuev, a man who looks like he's been put together by Fluck and Law and an industrial-sized crane'
Very funny Robbo, this bit made me chuckle for minutes!
Ferguson would be PM if Man U, as an economic, social and cultural institution was actually more valuable to Britain's prestige than Man U fans's perceive. SAF is beginning to loose the plot. Age and 'relative' failure related deterioation to his common sense is kicking in and he is no longer respected 'universally' but rather by just a bunch of over-zealous (red)devils supporters and a few FA chiefs utterley terrified by him.
I agreee refs have made some disastorous decisions this season and before but the decsion to penalise Fletcher which led to the goal is far from the worst of these decisions. I'm glad Ferguson is being rediculed for his comments but even happier that Benitez is keeping his gob shut for a change. To insult Ferguson is worse than insulting the queen or even the pope these days.
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“If the decision had been wrong, most would admit it. Chelsea deserved nothing more than a draw from the game, if even that.
Lampard should have given a penalty away from an obvious handball as he tried to jump and block the cross from O'Shea. To say the ref was even-handed is just laughable.”
Cech had one save to make, so how does that equate to Chelsea not even deserving a draw. Possession wise 51 – 49%, United’s possession in general wasn’t around the 18 yard box, which is why they failed to create so few clear cut chances.
The replays showed Lampard turned his back and it didn’t even hit his arm.
The Terry one should have been a penalty, but then again Utd could have ended the game with 9 men-bottom line the ref was very poor yesterday.
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Lampard was outside the box anyway, so whether it hit his arm or not - a penalty could only have been given under 'Old Trafford' rules.
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168. At 5:10pm on 09 Nov 2009, ColchesterFC wrote:
I'm sure in the Liverpool v Man Utd game a couple of weeks ago Man Utd were denied a penalty on the grounds that Carragher took the ball before taking out Carrick. Using the same logic Fletcher's challenge on Cole was fair as was Jonny Evans' challenge on Drogba. Both took the ball first and therefore the follow through doesn't matter. The only mistake Evans made was aiming too low and not taking Drogba's head off.
Can someone point out to me where in the Laws of the Game there is anything about 'getting the ball'? The issue of getting the ball is a complete irrelevance, and it's amazing how many people go on about it all the time. A tackle may be penalised if it is 'careless, reckless or using excessive force'; basically, if you take out the man after getting the ball, then you've fouled him. And yesterday Fletcher very definitely took out the man after he got the ball. So it was right to award a free-kick - not so sure about the actual goal, though...
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As a Merseysider, not a Red, I am often annoyed by the excuses from old Sir Alex.
In this case though I agree with him. I feel somewhat annoyed as to the limitation of free speech within the rules of the FA, and would like to thing that both managers and officials should be able to express opinions freely. With criticism comes improvement - if complaints aren't aired then why should any effort be made to rectify the situation.
Referees should be asked to explain their game-changing decisions, perhaps privately, but it should be released to the press to encourage debate. If they get it wrong then so be it.
Perhaps the decision to send off (or not) a player should always be explained when this judgement is often critical and inconsistent
Why should people care about getting it right when there is no responsibility associated with the role.
Look at it the other way, a Manager makes a statement saying a goal was clearly offside where evidence shows otherwise, this being spotted by the ref or linesman (not assistant refs in my opinion, most seem to dodge decision making). The ref should be able to say publicly that it was disallowed because Player D was interfering with play as he was in the goalkeepers way, or went for the ball, whilst in an offside position.
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Re Managers' complaints - the Beeb is partly to blame.Firstly, why do they insist on interviewing players who have trouble making up a sentence and secondly why don't they insist that Managers see replays before they comment or better still scrap the post match interviews altogether; Hansen and Co always give reasoned analysis
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#_ceiling_fan_ , Think your taking it all a bit personal. Robbo slates everyone, that´s what he does.
To say he writes bad things about SAF just to get extra comments is also a bit wide of the mark (similar to Utd´s shooting yesterday 8-p) His blog "Benitez on the brink?" had 802 posts, and a blog about Gareth Southgate, "Bye Bye Pinocchio" got over 1000 posts.
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Fergie can never accept that his team was not up it.
A bad refereeing decision can give him the game like the winning goal in UTD vs City, and he's happy as larry - the ref is a decent bloke, but something goes against him and he has to have a go.
I think that the only thing that is going to shut him up is if the FA strip Man U of points every time he or his players make complaints like that.
Rafa was berated and belittled by just about everyone because of his 'rant' last season. Didnt sound like a rant to me, it was more like a detailed dossier questioning the FAs lack of punishment for Sir Alex's complaints. Funny thing about it was that the spotlight was then shone on Rafa while Fergie's comments carry on unabateed.
Indeed Fergie is not the only manager to do this, Rafa, Mourhino (in his time), Wenger et al are all guilty to some degree, but Fergie really does take the biscuit.
If managers were docked three points every time they complained about refereeing decisions, I think that Man U would be threatened with relegation right now.
Its time to seriously enforce the fact that the referee's decision in final and has to be accepted. If there is question over a decision, it should be made behind closed doors and should be between the FA, the referee and the Manager after the game.
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By the start of the second half both sides had given up playing football and had started a shameless display of play-acting in the hope the referee would win the game for them. They all were also fouling each other virtually every time two players came within 5 yards of each other, obviously in an effort to give the referee ample opportunity to make the call.
If you do that, then you deserve whatever the referee decides. I have much more sympathy with complaints when one side gets fouled off the park when trying to play football, like Arsenal sometimes. In this case, and in the Liverpool game, both teams were useless; And both teams left it up to the referee; And both teams should have no complaints.
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Who cares really?
The game was one of the worst played in the Prem this year and only got interesting when things kicked off in the last fifteen minutes, and even then not for footballing reasons.
Of course Slurgie complains about the ref - is this a surprise!? We should have a blog about why the so-called two best teams in England showed zero quality on the pitch.
Quite funny to see ManU fans going on about some conspiracy against them though.
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180. At 5:23pm on 09 Nov 2009, adampsb wrote:
except it didn't
we got 3 points and denied Man Utd any, had United got a draw following Carragher's sending off - which is what most complainants seemed to be inferring, they'd have got a point, Liverpool would have got a point.
Achieving a point or none at Fulham a week later has no bearing on this.
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Yes it does as the gap before United played Liverpool was 7 points. It then narrowed to 4 and then aas Utd won and Liverpool lost went back to 7 so yes it does have a bearing and did even itself out as the gap remained 7 points so teh loss at anfield wasn't as significant as it could have been had you won as now if you beat Birmingham the gap will be 4 points instead of 1.
Statistical proof that things even themselves out over the season
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so what your saying is that Liverpool lost to Fulham, because decisions went in Uniteds favour? I dont quite get your logic here. Liverpool lost to Fulham because Fulham were the better team. Nothing to do with luck/decisions evening them selves out over a season.
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206. At 6:19pm on 09 Nov 2009, redmacuser wrote:
Its time to seriously enforce the fact that the referee's decision in final and has to be accepted. If there is question over a decision, it should be made behind closed doors and should be between the FA, the referee and the Manager after the game.
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In order for the Refs getting respected again, they have to make better decisions. I know it is very difficult when all they have is a split second and 1 angle ov vision, we at home have multiple angled slow motion.
So the logical solution would be to assist them with the same technology with which we see more.
Seriously, will the game be any slower if they went along minding their own business on the filed unless and only if a wrong decision is spotted by the video ref. He can direct the on filed ref to push the game back to the point of foul, losing perhaps some seconds.
With someone with authority having a closer look, watch the play acting and cheating disappear before our eyes.
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ive been meaning to ask, robbo - is that red sleeved hand emerging from your guiness to punch you in the chin a sneaky reference to when you dj'd for stevie G's birthday party?
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oh well man u have won one double already.
not only will af escape any sanctions ( for this incident anyways )
lil roon also gets out of jail as well.
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and on the big debate today - twinkies definitely exist as i hav seen video footge of them. thry are the unltimate snaack; King sized twinkies make ideal normal-sized twinkies for giants. Normal sized twinkies make ideal king-sized twinkies for dwarfs, as well as fun-sized ones for giants. FUN-sized twinkies ideal normal sized twinkies for midgets. for scotsmen there is te deepfried twinkie and for H2H there is the SpaceTwinkie. a rare banana filled twinkie was seen in orbit over nova scotia. a friend of mine says he once saw a twinkie that looked like wee jimmy crankie. freaked him out.
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Can anyone explain how Rooney gets away with his comments to the cameras?
Wait, ManU player, England's great hope for international glory, media darling (albeit an ugly one)...
Never mind.
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203. At 6:09pm on 09 Nov 2009, why-o-why wrote
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Like your thoughts. How can improvement be made if mistakes are completely overlooked! Its like you making a big mistake - costing a customer money for example. This customer is really unhappy, and rightly so, so complains about you and your company in say a local paper. Your boss then completely ignores this complaint and gives you full backing, and actually punishes the customer for complaining! Does it sound ludicrous? yes, and this is essentially what is happening with referees!!
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I believe there is a Twinkie somewhere in central America that looks just like the Virgin Mary. A small shrine has been setup and thousands flock to it every year hoping for divine inspiration - or dessert.
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But i do not say, man utd are out of it, they will win the cup, remember last season, wearn't livepool 7 points head of man utd? and liverpool won double againts man utd and who won the cup? man utd, so i do not say man utd are out of it, they are back to thier good form, man utd played thier best perfomance this season even tho they lost against chelsea because of a referee decision
and don't you guys thing robbo is against man utd and sir alex, last time he also done a blog against them and when did he ever done a blog for man utd?
seriusoly Robbo if your going tofo a blog , be fair next time.
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Blogski, I once saw a Jimmy Crankie, that was enough to freak me out.
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Some fair points Robbo.
SAF is getting boring by doing it *all* the time these days.
Yes, the goal shouldn't have been allowed - but that happens every week to many teams and it happens to every team many weeks.
Yes, that free kick shouldn't have been given - but there were other occasions in the game when free kicks that should have been given weren't.
It's all part of the game, the ref made mistakes, we lost, but he wasn't Chelsea's 12th man. There'll be games when we're outplayed and we still win because of dodgy decisions.
It's part of the game, comment on it (without the rant), then move on.
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i occasionally enjoy having a twinkie for breakfast... it's puffy and sweet, oozes a substance devoid of benefit to man, but couldn't hurt you if it tried, and it's called Gaz (bucketofish!)
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214. At 6:41pm on 09 Nov 2009, CousinKev wrote:
Can anyone explain how Rooney gets away with his comments to the cameras?
Wait, ManU player, England's great hope for international glory, media darling (albeit an ugly one)...
Never mind.
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The fact that both Fergie and Rooney have both only been NFA'd and warned, respectively, should indicate, even to your clearly biased mind, that the FA also think Atkinsons performance was entirely unsatisfactory.
These situations are the only time when they take such prompt action to appease the injured party, in this case United.
What are the odds that that was Atkinsons last game in the prem for a while?
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Two things - I do not support either Man U and Chelsea
1. Did I imagine Johny Bruce Lee Evans kick in the chest of Drogba which should have been a penalty which would have left the result at 1-0 and for once 50 meter board champion had a reason to go down, albeit he could have done without the flat on his back hip hop moves. Didn't here Sir A moan about the yellow Drogba got for being assaulted
2. Managers and players are reaping the rewards of their own cheating. I am ref and I used to be able to make reasonable calls on fouls in the box but nowadays whether it be 4 yr olds or 54 yr olds they all drop to the floor under the slightest of pressure, every time someone falls over it must have been a foul etc, this is all caused by the so called Professionals who are ruining the game with their cheating and moaning.
I now live in the USA and even American Football is retreating from it's use of video evidence during games - because the constant stopping and starting every 30 seconds is boring as hell.
The game of Football is all about events which take split second events, whether it be players or refs, and that is what makes it so exciting to watch and play, if the game moves to video replays then three things will happen
The game will take 3 hours not 1.5
The cheats will have to stop cheating or they will be caught
If the cheating stops then the judgment calls by refs will be much easier to make...
But wait perhaps constant video "challenges" and 6 refs for a year will sort them out and we can then go back to normal
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" Can anyone explain how Rooney gets away with his comments to the cameras? "
yes i can.
he is englands ambassador for the world cup bid in 4025, by then every hotel in manchester should be full of unemployed grannys looking to sue a celebrity for being well balled in a hotel corridor.
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221. At 6:54pm on 09 Nov 2009, onewelshunited wrote:
The fact that both Fergie and Rooney have both only been NFA'd and warned, respectively, should indicate, even to your clearly biased mind, that the FA also think Atkinsons performance was entirely unsatisfactory.
No, that's the conclusion your "clearly biased mind' has come to. For most observers the ref was poor, but did not intentionally favour any one team. The FA may think Atkinson's performance was unsatisfactory in that regard, but does not change the fact that Rooney's comments are indeed of the nature which question the integrity of the referee, not his performance.
So explain why he should get off scot free for it.
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224. At 7:00pm on 09 Nov 2009, CousinKev wrote:
221. At 6:54pm on 09 Nov 2009, onewelshunited wrote:
The fact that both Fergie and Rooney have both only been NFA'd and warned, respectively, should indicate, even to your clearly biased mind, that the FA also think Atkinsons performance was entirely unsatisfactory.
No, that's the conclusion your "clearly biased mind' has come to. For most observers the ref was poor, but did not intentionally favour any one team. The FA may think Atkinson's performance was unsatisfactory in that regard, but does not change the fact that Rooney's comments are indeed of the nature which question the integrity of the referee, not his performance.
So explain why he should get off scot free for it.
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I just did, they will always try and appease the wronged party. I agree Rooney's 'signing' was out of order but the reason he will get away with it is because United were disadvantaged by Atkinsons bad performance, Chelsea were not, the FA will brush it under the carpet and Atkinson will get his but* kicked, hence the decisions on Rooney and Fergie.
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"stay away from SIR Alex Ferguson.. He is called SIR for a reason!"
Sclerosis Induced Redness?
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Blimey ... Fergie junior's been sacked from Peterborough.
Disgraceful really given he's gotten back to back promotions for that club.
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First off, let me get one thing off my chest. Twinkies are VERY real. I lived in the states for 3 years, and I tried one. Once. I swear to God, it felt like I was shot up with pure sugar.....
Now, to business. Yes, the ref was awful, but like it has been pointed out, bad decisions are made all the time. It's just it's only when a big team is involved do we hear about it. The referee is only human after all, and we all make mistakes (except Gaz, because he's "special"). I can think of so many times in the last 6 months where the referee was awful, the big one sticking in my mind was at Old Trafford earlier in the season, but until the FA, FIFA and UEFA all get their act together and bring in video replays, this is something that will never change.
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Lord Fergie of Govan was spot on in his criticism of the referee on Sunday. Fergie maybe doesn't deliver his criticism of referees with the diplomacy lily-livered, soft Southerners would like but he is generally right more times than he is wrong. When many of his critics, blatantly motivated by jealousy, have done for English football what the Scotsman has then, maybe, they should be allowed to criticise!
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By the way Gaz, no insult intended..... It was your words after all.
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" CHELSEA
Injury hits Chelsea defender Cole "
slightly of subject i know but is it not meaningless International Week?
watch the list grow, and then as if by magic all are fit and well to resume playing for thier respective clubs.
so much for cappello being his own man.
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Last season - after 12 games, United were 8 points behind Chelsea, who made an equally good start under Scolari. 5 points this early is nothing - especially when come january Chelsea's 2 best players will be in Africa! Although it does coincide nicely with a very easy run of fixtures for Chelsea! hmmmm. Just one for the conspiracy theorists there. lol.
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227, I agree Star they wouldn´t have been there if it wasn´t for him, and what did they realistically expect after moving up the leagues so quickly.
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Daft idea, I can see Drogba already, pulling off his own velcro patch and rolling round the pitch in a velcro spasm like he's just had his Inguinal ripped out!
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224. At 7:00pm on 09 Nov 2009, CousinKev wrote:
221. At 6:54pm on 09 Nov 2009, onewelshunited wrote:
The fact that both Fergie and Rooney have both only been NFA'd and warned, respectively, should indicate, even to your clearly biased mind, that the FA also think Atkinsons performance was entirely unsatisfactory.
No, that's the conclusion your "clearly biased mind' has come to. For most observers the ref was poor, but did not intentionally favour any one team. The FA may think Atkinson's performance was unsatisfactory in that regard, but does not change the fact that Rooney's comments are indeed of the nature which question the integrity of the referee, not his performance.
So explain why he should get off scot free for it.
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I just did, they will always try and appease the wronged party. I agree Rooney's 'signing' was out of order but the reason he will get away with it is because United were disadvantaged by Atkinsons bad performance, Chelsea were not, the FA will brush it under the carpet and Atkinson will get his but* kicked, hence the decisions on Rooney and Fergie.
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That makes no sense at all (the FA action, not your explanation). The rules clearly state that you can comment on a ref's performance but not make any personal attacks on their character - which is exactly what saying '12 men' is. Nothing in the rules say it is ok to do this if the ref had a shocker. As you said, if the FA think the ref was poor, he will be punished - objective punishment. The same should apply to Rooney - he broke the rules, hence, should be punished.
Though if you are just saying the FA are pathetic, we agree.
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At 7:12pm on 09 Nov 2009, BrizzleGooner wrote:
By the way Gaz, no insult intended..... It was your words after all.
None taken Brizzle.
You are among the group of sensible Gooners (now there's an oxymoron) with H2H and Spitfire or Starfire.
I can never remember which one of them is a Gooner and which a Spurs fan. So I am sure to have insulted at least one of them anyway.
No need to remind everyone who is not a member of the sensible Gooners.
Anyway there's only about 4.5 hours to go until Modern Warfare 2!!!
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233. At 7:18pm on 09 Nov 2009, Holloway2Holland wrote:
227, I agree Star they wouldn´t have been there if it wasn´t for him, and what did they realistically expect after moving up the leagues so quickly.
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It's just nuts, even sillier than the decision to get rid of Southgate.
I mean, Peterborough are only 4 points from safety AND they've won twice as many games as Keano's lot.
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235:CozKev
Both, the FA are pathetic and I reckon a deal has been done, hence no punishment for Rooney, Fergie won't make an official complaint, Atkinson will be sent back to school and the FA will overlook Rooneys direspectful 'lip read'.
Jobs Done eh! Oh how the wheels of corruption rumble on. Bit like the Chavs having the transfer ban lifted just in time for Crimbo shopping.
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But i do not say, man utd are out of it, they will win the cup, remember last season, wearn't livepool 7 points head of man utd? and liverpool won double againts man utd and who won the cup? man utd, so i do not say man utd are out of it, they are back to thier good form, man utd played thier best perfomance this season even tho they lost against chelsea because of a referee decision
and don't you guys thing robbo is against man utd and sir alex, last time he also done a blog against them and when did he ever done a blog for man utd?
seriusoly Robbo if your going tofo a blog , be fair next time.
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I too am eagerly awaiting the release of Modern Warfare 2, and I have even bought a new mouse to go with it. Problem is, I'll have to wait until tomorrow to play it. Need to be in bed early for work. Plus, I need to have a few beers tonight whilst watching the Battle of Middle League.
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238: onewelshunited
Jobs Done eh! Oh how the wheels of corruption rumble on. Bit like the Chavs having the transfer ban lifted just in time for Crimbo shopping.
Ah yes, they rumble on well for those who have the grease.
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tibet is high up by accident becos the bottom dropped off of it and it flung itslef to the skies, but now its rebounding and one day will be lower than death Valley, and i dont mean charlton; it wont go that low.
in the same way, port vale and man U will swap places in the fullness of time and the milton keynsians will flock to vale park in serch of glory. this process is under way wit manu "its between us nd chelsea" hahaha in 3rd and the vale alredy up to 13th in the 2nd div.
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sensible Gooner here:
or did you accidently on purpose leave me of the list.
if so, no hard fellings twinky.
i can handle rejection.
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At 7:30pm on 09 Nov 2009, BrizzleGooner wrote:
I too am eagerly awaiting the release of Modern Warfare 2, and I have even bought a new mouse to go with it. Problem is, I'll have to wait until tomorrow to play it. Need to be in bed early for work. Plus, I need to have a few beers tonight whilst watching the Battle of Middle League.
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You are immediately removed from the sensible list if you are a PC gamer!!
PS3 - only way to go!!
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“Bit like the Chavs having the transfer ban lifted just in time for Crimbo shopping.
Ah yes, they rumble on well for those who have the grease. “
That’s a bit rich considering the ban is illegal as it contravenes EU law and Chelsea apparently cleared the transfer with the French FA, EUFA and the Premier League.
At the moment Chelsea have got off with zilch, they have exercised their right of appeal, which any club is entitled to do. Rather than getting off with anything they appear to have been victimised. To say it’s corrupt is completely wrong.
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At 7:33pm on 09 Nov 2009, davidgilmourthe3rd wrote:
sensible Gooner here:
or did you accidently on purpose leave me of the list.
if so, no hard fellings twinky.
i can handle rejection.
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I stuck up for you the other day DG3 and I can't be sticking up for a Gooner twice in a week, I couldn't live with myself.
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Joe - was asking because there is a big difference between the NFL, tennis and rugby uses of technology, and the Aussie-France game in Paris had quite a lot of trouble with the technology on saturday.
Also, no-one is really mentioning the massive problem. How do you implement the same standard of 'video refereeing' at every game, when there may be twice as many cameras at OT as there are at the Reebok, let alone in League One?
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dg3 #243 - you stop barely short of shouting "dont go, I can change"
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"Rather than getting off with anything they appear to have been victimised."
Time to get those tiny violins ready.
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Captain Dirk!
Now that surely warrants a blog of its own.
Or at least a few hundred Star Trek references.
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At 7:43pm on 09 Nov 2009, BeyondThePale wrote:
"Rather than getting off with anything they appear to have been victimised."
Time to get those tiny violins ready.
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Shouldn't be a problem for you BTP, you have direct access to the tiny violin factory don't you. Discount on bulk orders for Scousers.
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It's like that (Gobsh*te) Phones4U advert:
You need more than 50 friends to get the best deals.
Bought a new mouse to play Modern Warfare?
NO.
Just a little fun, Gaz. Wish i had a PS3, GT5 looks unbelievable.
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Man Utd. are the greatest team on earth.
There? Am I a sensible gooner again now?
(I didn't really mean that. Obviously.)
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"Discount on bulk orders for Scousers."
No need for discount with £45m of Euromillions money.
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Car racing games... Pah!!
I only like shooting things.
It's either a hangover from the old Irish days or I pretend that Denis or Onion are on the end of that .50 cal.
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When are the BBC going to admit that 'Robbo Robson' is a fictional facade they created in order to air unproffessional, partisan views.
I don't know why i keep reading it, its the type of nonsense your mate who doesn't know much about football sprouts.
I'll stick to Jonathon Pearce, Paul Fletcher, Tim Vickery and Chris Charles. All infinitely more interesting and humorous than this drivel.
Bye Robbo.
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I have more than 50 friends. It's just a shame that 49 of them are in my head.
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is Modern Warfare along the same lines as " Rome " or " Total War Alexander " leaving aside of course the obvious in respect of the centurys passed between the two.
and just where do i get the cheats to overturn some bloomin barbarian who has but a handfull of men but seems to cut my legions to pieces everytime i confront the man.
Ive thrown everything at him, from burning pigs to a very serious calvary assault, it seems his dam chariots have something to do with it who ever he is he makes Alexander pale into insignificance on the battlefield also it is apparent I would not have made a good Ceasar but i cant be great at everything.
also he frequently renages on peace pacts as the schemming hairy geezer does a deal one min then next he pops up and attacks my legions.
he's doing this right now as we speak.
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Bye pit, thanks for your input.
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245. At 7:39pm on 09 Nov 2009, greenmarkfo wrote:
“Bit like the Chavs having the transfer ban lifted just in time for Crimbo shopping.
Ah yes, they rumble on well for those who have the grease. “
That’s a bit rich considering the ban is illegal as it contravenes EU law and Chelsea apparently cleared the transfer with the French FA, EUFA and the Premier League.
At the moment Chelsea have got off with zilch, they have exercised their right of appeal, which any club is entitled to do. Rather than getting off with anything they appear to have been victimised. To say it’s corrupt is completely wrong.
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When I mean't corruption I actually meant more the nepotistic "back scratching" type rather than the "let's carve up the Russian oil fields between us Mafia dudes" type.................Not that that should make a Chav feel any better of course....:-)
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what is the point of the mouth-breathing donkey-flanges who come on here and say, and i quote: "256. At 7:49pm on 09 Nov 2009, pitroddieloon wrote:
When are the BBC going to admit that 'Robbo Robson' is a fictional facade they created in order to air unproffessional, partisan views.
I don't know why i keep reading it, its the type of nonsense your mate who doesn't know much about football sprouts."
Don't then...fork off.
Gaz, i tend to end up as cannon fodder on that sort of thing. Endless regeneration followed by a couple of seconds of walking around, shoot a rock, fall asleep.
I like football games. No-one beats Liverpool when i'm in charge (oh, no, now i'm sad)
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When is the FA going to realise that the players, managers and quite frankly the fans are never going to respect the referee if all they earn is our contempt as a result of shocking decisions, an apparent inability (or laziness / Pride) to utilise the other match officials when they miss incidents because they are not well positioned?
You can't expect a passionate footballer to simply roll over and take what the ref says when their misjudgment causes games to have a different outcome than it should have, not because of a lack of effort or skill, but because of a bad decision.
I'm not berating all refs or all decisions, but the game is played at such a pace that they cannot possibly referee the game effectively without help. This is evidenced every single week with refs dropping clangers left right & centre.
Quite frankly, the FA are doing their best to protect refs because they cannot admit to their own inadequacies to ensure their referees and match officials do their job properly. So when the most successful manager of all time gives his opinion, he should not be fined or censored, but the FA should take a good look inside at their own hypocrisy.
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pit - dont go before i've said this:
"football sprouts"
hahaha
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Don't worry captain, Cannon Fodder was a great game. Although you are right on one other thing as well. On a video game is the only way Liverpool are going to win anything. (Coming from a gooner, I know that sounds a little sarcastic.)
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256 Nanki Pu sings I've got a little list and none of them will be missed.
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Spot on Robbo. Instead of having Fergie sit at the top of the stands, I'd have him sit at home without a telephone or TV. He really is tiresome.
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Brizzle - we could still finish top of the league, with good discipline, and that means Europe. Well, the fair play league, and the Inter-Toto.
Gentleman - i personally respect the refs more than SAF. They have a tough job, are expected to be in the same physical shape as people who are given 100 times the assets an training resources, do a good job and then get the blame for the shortcomings of the managers.
Man U were the team with less quality, and the beauty of football is that teams with less quality can win, but on that day Chelsea's quality told.
The same stuff came out after the Liverpool game, people blaming the ref when Man U lost because Rafa got the midfield right and Fergie thought Scholes and Carrick were good enough, which they weren't.
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ah the evening shift of antipodeans and pople with jobs has arrived
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It was a great weekend of football wasn't it. Gunners won, United lost. If only Orient had scored the extra goal it would have been perfect.
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When is the FA going to realise that the players, managers and quite frankly the fans are never going to respect the referee if all they earn is our contempt as a result of shocking decisions
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The problem is, in my opinion anyway, shocking decisions only seem to be given against my team.
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oi, blog, i can spend quite a lot of work-time here, y'know. it's practically a second job
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ah the evening shift of antipodeans and pople with jobs has arrived
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Some of us have to sleep blog.
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right im gone av fun u guys.
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It had to happen, didn´t it. Benitez scores against L´pool.
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The United fans seem to have left early today.
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I guess they've all become Birmingham fans for 90 minutes.
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Nah some of us still here, while monitoring Pool getting a stuffing, of course.
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Not sure 1-1 will do Rafa's credibility any good, mind you every point counts when your in a relegation dog-fight........LOL
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oops 2-1 to Brum
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The ref should do Liverpool a favour and send off Lucas.
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205. Holloway2Holland
I'm not taking it personal mate, I think I made a fair point. Ferguson is not the only manager who criticises refs - they're all at it. And yeah, I do have a sense of humour (honest guv) and I do accept that Robbo's blogs are all about preying on easy targets - it's just normally his blogs are funny as opposed this, which seems like a character assassination with a bit of boxing thrown in at the end! Fergie is not the big bad wolf (he's the pantomime villain).
ps - talking about one blog having 802 posts and another having over 1000 doesn't really prove anything. It just depends how talkative the usual suspects are late at night! :)
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ceiling fan, at least Robbo is speaking the truth.
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281, ceiling_fan, OK mate fair play.
You´re probably right about the posts too, most of them are off topic anyway, unless the topic is Man Utd/L,pool/SAF/Rafa.
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no, Fergie's not the only one to criticise refs - just the most blatantly derogatory/defamatory.
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284. At 9:06pm on 09 Nov 2009, DenistheGenius wrote:
no, Fergie's not the only one to criticise refs - just the most blatantly derogatory/defamatory.
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And truthful.................you seemed to have missed that!
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oh, he always tells the truth, eh?
good one! just like Wazza is an "honest footballer"
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I hate SAF's moaning about refs as well.
The problem is that a lot of the time, much as I hate to admit it, he's right.
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286.
As is Stevie G, of night club fame, and Drog who has an oscar?
or is there a point to that comment?
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don't you think any manager who berates officials during/after a match often has grounds to feel hard done by? so when this manager makes a complete *ss of himself by shifting the blame for losing from himself and his players, how does his "truthfulness" mitigate his ugly behaviour?
if John Terry or Wayne Rooney chase the ref 60 yards downfield looking like they're about to assault him, they are "right" to do so if the decision was poor?
are you following me?
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And so the referee debate continues...........
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What a dive. 4.2 difficulty on that one. Should liven up discussion in here I'd say.
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wow. nice dive you Ngog-good cheat!
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So just watched Ngog blatantly dive. Worse than Rooney or Eduardo. Disgusting.
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No doubt all four of them are honest footballers and believe they play the game honestly, but do they? I suggest not, partly because the pressure on them to succeed, both individually and as part of a team, is too great. I guess their egos and desire to win is also a factor.
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Tom Daley would have won the Olympic gold with that.
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290
take it a step further and you will get to "if someone has a genuine grievence then should it not be aired.....even if the great unwashed already have made their minds up about his comments, due to his having a reputation for complaining fuelled by the media who are seeking to sell stories out of nothing, mainly because they know he is a.succesful b. usually right and in any case just like to knock United"
And because of these things he is a liar and all his players are dishonest, whereas their rivals are candidates for sinthood.......get real Denis, he can't be wrong all the time just because you don't like him.
65 mins.......must be time for the usual suspects to get on the Rafa roundabout...........anyone seen Veronin?
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One thing which Alex Ferguson's continual rants against football referees might achieve is what John McEnroe's continual rants against line judges and umpires in the 1970s and 1980s led to - a rise in officating standards, and the introduction of technology to aid decision-making.
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should read 'sainthood' lol must be a malaopropism or something like that.
My typing is slow Stevie G has now equalised back to 1 point then?
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Post 7 - if the commentary was rude about Wigan as a place then maybe the Beeb's very own Stuart Maconie could redress the balance. I mean, he seems amiable, like.
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oh my, and St. Stephen does it again... what a diving clinic we're seeing!
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247 Tim, don't you fret about instant replays and video technology at the Reebok, we'll put a man in every corner with a Polaroid, hang the expense.
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onewelsh:
a) i never said he's always correct or always incorrect in his views of decisions, just that it's never "right" to behave like he does.
b) you didn't answer my question(s) in any way...evasive tactics?
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Denis
Being the consumate politician I answered it with another, my question to you was just 'because you don't always go about putting your grievence in a universally acceptable manner, does that mean your grievence is any less valid or you should be accorded any less recognition, just because your manner grates on others?'
Of course you can ignore my first claim above as the reality is I didn't know what the hell you were on about.....:-))
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BTP, I was going to complain about your comment at 288 but you didn't type anything. Plug your keyboard in and take the beer bottle off yer mouse.
Brum have played really well the last two weeks, it's another worrying sign for us Bolton supporters!
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Well nearly an upset tonight, but Liverpool just couldn't score the winner.
So once enough time passes that he can pretend he came home from the game will Onion be on villifying Ngog for being a diver?
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I doubt it. The red shirt he was wearing was the wrong shirt for that.
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It's no good Trotter, you'll have to come over and bring a team of cheerleaders with you. It seems some sort of distraction is needed.
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Well nearly an upset tonight, but Liverpool just couldn't score the winner.
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Subtle Gaz.
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Technically, they couldn't score the equaliser, either.
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A draw doesn´t do the `pool much good, doesn´t help Gaz´s SAVE RAFA campaign either.
Not sure about that penalty he seemed to Ngog down without being touched (alledgedly).
Nevermind L´pool fans, it´s not the end of the world......................................There´s always next year.
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Nev's a Red and Onion.
It is not necessarily that a decision for Fulham benefits United directly it is more to say that teams will generally get an equal amount of dubious decisons go against them and go for them so generally it evens itself up (even if you are Hull & Birmingham who are getting dodgy penalties awarded against them recently)
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Its just been announced Peterborough have sacked Darren Ferguson
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Not sure if there will be a next year for Rafa though.
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Robbo - another WUM piece but it has ensured a good response, as you hoped no doubt?
Have to comment on the Evans Drogba thing; not a pleasant encounter obviously, but anyone who has played the game will tell you the way Drogba was 'homing-in' on Evans, indicated he was attempting to intimidate him, or worse! - Evans, still a relatively inexperienced player, probably thought it was the latter and was seeking to defend himself.
Or a bit like the old Man City winger Mike Summerbee, he 'got his retaliation first'!
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313. At 10:21pm on 09 Nov 2009, redpreacherman wrote:
Its just been announced Peterborough have sacked Darren Ferguson
Bit late with that preach, check,227,233.
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Hi ho, hi ho it's off to work we go.
Before I go though... I'm not happy about you united supporters, not a single response to any of my posts this morning.
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I must have been wide asleep at the keyboard to miss that H2H. Mea Culpa
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318, no prob´s my man, wide asleep is my constant state of mind.
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Never mind Bo, there's nothing as fickle as fate unless it's a United supporter.
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"Home and opposition fans will soon be able to sit together at Nottingham Forest's City Ground as part of a pioneering new scheme."
Blimey! Can't see this taking off at Liverpool v United games, reckon there will be three types of red on the terraces, most of the fans would need to be strait-jacketed before being let in.
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321 I'm not even sure it will work at the City Ground. At least they are going to try it at the family end.
As far as Anfield or OT is concerned I fear in the misquoted words of that old song "Blood, blood, glorious blood"
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Preach, you shouldn't be looking at the cheerleaders but blimey, those Dallas lasses, you gotta love American "sport"! I'm sure Bolton has a crack team of pie eaters in training somewhere in the deepest bowels of the Reebok. That skimpy clobber is enough justification for the underground heating system.
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323, Trotter, I´ve noticed on tv that some of the teams in the fizzy pop divisions, but the "sport" is not in the same league as the U.S. "talent"
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I reckon there must be a disclaimer on the tickets that you enter at your own risk, otherwise I can see some serious H&S claims being filed if it all goes Pete Tong.
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Trotter I take off me specs, then it don't matter.
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Re 324
323, Trotter, I´ve noticed on tv that some of the teams in the fizzy pop divisions have cheerleaders, but the "sport" is not in the same league as the U.S. "talent"
That´s better.
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Fergie isn't ranting for your entertainment, so where do you get off? You must have a ridiculoudsly small football brain to choose the aftermath of Sunday's match to criticise SAF's comments on referees. Did you even see the game?
And this is how you make your living. Unbelievable.
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What is entertainment?
There was once a great player named Cantona
who changed his name to Dantona.
His brain it does work at lightening speed
and now he is known as Daytona.
Wait for it
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EricDantona wrote:
Fergie isn't ranting for your entertainment, so where do you get off?
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Fergie's not in the entertainment biz?
what's his raquet then? solving world hunger? nuclear disarmament?
as Robbo is also in the entertainment biz, i'd say he has every right, mate.
all you Mancs missing the forest for the trees here? consider it Robbo's SAF "lifetime achievement" award for unparalleled bickering at and manipulation of referees.
congrads Fergie! you're in a class (ha!) of your own.
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#328
It's on the back of every other whinge that I'm having a pop. If it was a one-off you might be able to understand - and to be fair he did point out that his team couldn't score and that was their fault. I just wish he'd wind his neck in sometimes.
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327 H2H, you know there's an endless blog waiting to be opened on that very subject and Denis has just chipped in with his own angle on it.
As stated often enough I think it's all about the money, a business and especially so at the upper end of all so called "sports".
Of course it's the entertainment business that we're on about so cheerleaders, oversized mascots, marching bands, instant updates on portable electronic devices, replays on ginormous video screens etc etc, all add to the entertainment experience.
Sport includes hunting, fishing, coarsing and what's the other one (?), I forget but all these other things are just games!
It must have been great watching a medieval joust with one knight wearing our colours and us all cheering him on before complaining bitterly how his horse was just back from a fetlock injury and his lance got snapped cause some bugger interfered with it and then stopping at the stocks on the way home from Ye Olde Inne to lob rotten fruit at the village idiot!
This is still where we're at, great fun isn't it. Especially now we have Robbo and the the internet instead of a town crier!
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Anfield has a new Hero.
Come on Scousers, hands up who is ashamed of Ngog.
I watched the game here with a couple of LIverpool fans and they didnt seem to mind very much with the penalty. The failure to 'win' the game seem to hurt them more.
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Jack Charlton was fond of shooting, that may be the other one.
I've spent many a happy hour at Ye Olde Trip to Jerusalem, and I believe in years past there were stocks to be found outside.
When you are talking mass media and spectator sports, you are talking money and big business. But, largely thanks to Sky, money is being pumped into games like netball, squash and even contact sports like Tae Kwondo and they too are all becoming much more successful and much more like a business.
If it hasn't happened already the time is coming when the dividing line sport, games and business will be indistinguishable. I hope I've spelled that right at this time of night.
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Just heard that Fergie's lad already turned down two job offers, he's allegedly waiting to see how things pan out at Anfield.
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You're getting predictable now Robbo - By the way every time i hear and see the tenor in the 'Go Compare' advert it reminds me Mr Benitez. @go Compare# Go Compare#### Bet its in your head right now - lol
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Chucklin' here, just read the final comments at the end of the previous blog.
After 801 comments, the last post was adam proclaiming the soon-to-be immortal words "new blog's up chaps" and there it ended...everybody scurrying on to a new topic with one click of Prof. Robbo's digit! Awesome!
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I think almost everyone is missing the point here. Sir Alex gets hit with a punishment for his Alan Wiley comments, and what happens the game immediately after that? He has a pop at a referee again. He's not stupid - he judges he's unlikely to be punished twice, especially when he has a slightly better case on the basis of the incident in question, so he just does it. But think for a minute - is there any other profession besides football manager in which you could be punished one week for publicly insulting a fellow professional's performance, then do exactly the same thing the following week, knowing that there is a good chance that everyone just chooses to ignore it this time around? What sort of example does that set? Whether he was correct or not is besides the point - it's just unacceptable behaviour, whoever is doing it. There is clearly no sense of right or wrong at the top of the premier league, and that's appalling.
I'm very proud to support a club in League one with a manager who'd never make such comments - he'd just say something like "that's the way it goes" - perhaps because he knows he's not as able to influence with his comments as SAF is, or would get in trouble for saying more, but either way I'd say that it makes him a far better role model to leaders than SAF is. And it's not just SAF, it's Benitez, it used to be Mourinho, it has been Wenger (he's been luckier lately, so hasn't said so much - and I'd always rather hear him say he didn't see an incident than criticise one he had seen and didn't like). The more powerful the club, the more leeway the manager feels he has to criticise. That's just wrong, and should be called as such.
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WaxyGodfather wrote:
We are not Man U fans....
We are Manchester United fans or Man Utd fans.
Man U is an insult.
If you were a half decent journalist you would know this.
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I totally agree with you Waxy! Man U is an insult and a disgrace to premier league...... Made my day, as it came from a Man U supporter
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You just have to look at the players that either have played or are playing under his management. Bruce, Keane, Giggs, Rooney... just to name a few, never accept a referee's decision without whinging about it. Now I am not saying players from other teams don't do this but they don't do it with the same consistency.
Ferguson's total disrespect for referees is passed on to the players that play under him. They seem to have this hard done by expression whenever a decision goes against them. Watch in future games... especially Giggs.
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I don’t know why so many people are complaining about the standard of referees. Everyone know they are not, and never will be, perfect so what’s the point of expecting them to be. Could they be better? Possibly but hell might freeze over and I might become the last man on earth and have my pick of the lasses! The likes of SAF, Benitez et al being on their backs immediately after a game, I’m sure, doesn’t help matters and with no right of reply, they can never defend themselves, hardly a fair contest.
All managers, coaches etc. should be banned from making any kind of comment about the referees immediately after a game. To do so should instigate an automatic ban and fine. That should shut them up. My mum always told me to take a deep breath before having a go at someone – act in haste, repent at leisure or some such saying. Let them have their rants but make sure they cannot occur within 24 hours of the game. That way people with wiser counsel may have given them a cooler, more considered, perspective. I know I’ve watched a few games from the stand and blasted the blind b@st@rd in black throughout then gone home and seen a replay only to realise the referee hasn’t done that bad a job after all. Hell, I even watch games on the TV and scream at the screen only to be proven wrong seconds later when a replay from a different angle shows the decision to be perfectly legit - none of these privileges are available to the referee – and nobody ever seems to remember the amount of times they themselves get it wrong and the referee gets it right throughout a game.
As the powers that be do not want to use technology to make decisions during the game (something bullsh!t about keeping all levels of the game on the same plane and not slowing the game down) then perhaps they should think of doing so after and retrospectively ban the Drogbas of this world two/three matches for every dive not picked up by the officials during the game and you can add three/four matches for the snide jabs to the back of the head, studs down the back of the leg, elbows in the jaw etc. committed by all and sundry when the referees’ looking the other way. That way the game could be cleaned up no end and may even cut out some of the blatant cheating that goes on. I’m sure managers would be none too pleased if their stars continually get themselves a ban when in the past they had been getting away with it.
How are kids going to respect a referee’s decisions if they see their idols abusing them every time they watch a game and why should the players be expected to do so if their boss is continually taking a swipe and getting away with it?
Sorry, I’m starting to rant myself but you get the drift.
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@340 I think I am making the same point. The professionals (not all mind you but a fair majority) do not respect the referees. Managers, players even pundits. If the FA do not do something about it nothing will change including the standard of the referees.
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Where'd the 'Pool contingent go all of a sudden?
Oh ....
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Hungoverafter drowning their sorrows. It is early.
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See my comment in my blog, if you have the time
Thanks
http://jonnyontheball.blogspot.com/2009/04/refereesand-respect.html
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It was clear, it was not a penalty, even if that works against us," added Benitez.
"There have been many times this season that we have not been awarded penalties we should have had. I have asked Ngog and he said maybe it wasn't a penalty, either
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Did someone say that these things do not even themselves up over a season because apparently
THEY DO
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At 06:02am on 10 Nov 2009, arrrrgh wrote:
My mum always told me to take a deep breath before having a go at someone – act in haste, repent at leisure or some such saying. Let them have their rants but make sure they cannot occur within 24 hours of the game.
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My dad always told me "Before you criticise a man, walk a mile in his shoes". That way when you do criticise him you're a mile away and he can't chase you because you have his shoes.
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Robbo - this was a truley terrible read.
I usually enjoy this, but seriously this was awful.
I hear all this rubbish about Fergie, he has acheieved more than anyone else in the game, how can he be rubbished for complaining about TERRIBLE decisions??
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....and retrospectively ban the Drogbas of this world two/three matches for every dive not picked up by the officials during the game....
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I agree with all that you said arrrrgh(hope I spelt your name right). The problem I have with the solution is, if a referee books a player for simulation he only issues a yellow card so I don't see how you can ban a player in retrospect. Perhaps they should upgrade the diving offense to a sending off. And that should apply wherever it occurs on the pitch, not just in the penalty area.
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Looking good for Spurs this morning, presently in the top 4 and we're 30 odd mill in the black :P
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I hear all this rubbish about Fergie, he has acheieved more than anyone else in the game, how can he be rubbished for complaining about TERRIBLE decisions??
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Not sure I agree with your logic sam, just because he has achieved so much (and I agree that he has... biting my tongue while saying that) does not make him immune to a good ol' rubbishing when he deserves it. And he does deserve it.
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Good ol' Harry eh Spitfire.. what a manager.
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ooops sorry... starfire that shouold be
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Trotter- you're right that is funny that everyone jumped ship on the last blog. I preferred tha last blog, so perhaps we should all go back to it. I've just posted there a long analysis, placed in socio-historical perspective, of the roots of the Liverpool vs Man U rivalry, with particular reference to sectarian differences. I did my PhD on it.
#348. You wouldn't say that if your dad was Krusty the Clown. Are you going to the Exeter game? Noone will be playing. This is a fantastically confusing headline http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/e/exeter_city/8309790.stm
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I just went across there blog but didn't see any long analysis.
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@348 Your dad is smarter than my mum!
@349 Just because you have won a load of honours doesn't mean you cannot become a tool when the media sticks a microphone in front of your face.
@350 Perhaps they could do what they do in rugby league and put the offender 'on report' so that the video review guys can take a closer look and up the ante if the referee was proved to be 100%. If wrong rescind the yellow. If unclear the yellow stands.
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Not sure I agree with your logic sam, just because he has achieved so much (and I agree that he has... biting my tongue while saying that) does not make him immune to a good ol' rubbishing when he deserves it. And he does deserve it.
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Okay fair enough he does like to have a rant - but are you saying to me that Fletchers tackle was worthy of a freekick?
Decisions like that cost games - and ultimately that cost us potentially vital points.
We aren't playing well at the momemnt and to try and fight for a draw was a big enough ask against in form Chelsea.
I just think that the standards of refs is starting to noticably slip.
I'm not biast though - last night i watched the liverpool game, what the ref was playing at awarding the penalty i do not know!
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"i personally respect the refs more than SAF. They have a tough job"
Poor little referees - well, if they're not up to the job, because naturally they don't have many sets of eyes to see everything that goes on, then maybe they should accept help in the form of people sitting with cameras. The "assistants" are of little use, and too easily affected by the baying crowd standing metres from them. Also, the referees clearly like to feel like they run the show, and don't like to listen to advice from their assistants.
"Man U were the team with less quality, and the beauty of football is that teams with less quality can win, but on that day Chelsea's quality told"
Seriously? The player with the most quality on the pitch was Rooney, who did the best things in the game.
Incidentally, watching Terry celebrate his goal, you could see guilt and embarrassment written all over his chavvy face.
And of course congrats to Liverpool on their well earned draw.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Decisions like that cost games - and ultimately that cost us potentially vital points.
We aren't playing well at the momemnt and to try and fight for a draw was a big enough ask against in form Chelsea.
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I agree they do but are you telling me United have never been given a dodgy decision that resulted in them getting the points?
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Covered in jam no doubt
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I like the idea of a retrospective use of video evidence,however we then end up with Eduardo banned one minute and lifted the next.If an independent panel can make the decision and it remains then I agree.
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.... and too easily affected by the baying crowd standing metres from them ...
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Especially when playing at OT.
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I think you are like me blog, live a pretty sad life
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Credit to Rafa and McLeish post-match - especially McLeish who, heaven help us, said that bad decisions like that happen in football sometimes and you've just got to take them on the chin. Halle-flaming-lujah. Are you watching, Ferguson?
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I agree they do but are you telling me United have never been given a dodgy decision that resulted in them getting the points?
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Of course they have, i guess its the way football works - my only point was the way Robbo has hit in to Fergi (as everyone seems to these days)
I think most people would complain if your side was digging deep to try and earn ( probably a deserved point )against the stand out side in your league, and then a bad decision - or string of bad decisions cost you the game?
Did any decsion go uniteds way in that game? :S
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353. At 09:27am on 10 Nov 2009, BojanglesOfOz wrote:
Good ol' Harry eh Spitfire.. what a manager.
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Truth be told I was quite happy when we had Martin Jol. We missed out on 4th place by a whisker, gave us back to back 5th place finishes which is the best we've done in the prem, he brought back Euopean football for us and took us on some good cup runs.
Ramos got us silverware, yes but dismantaled a good team while doing so while Harry cleared up his mess and missed out on Europe by a whisker last year.
Hmm, maybe I should change my name to Messhersmitt, to avoid this who's the Arsenal supporter and who's the Spurs guy confusion that's been going on.
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Oh and Ngog banned for 5 games, I reckon. It is slightly different to Eduardo who was touched by a loose thread that had frayed off Boruc's glove and so had to go down. Unless Birmingham had someone called Thin Air playing for them, Ngog threw himself on the floor.
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...however we then end up with Eduardo banned one minute and lifted the next...
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Like I said in an earlier post jack, how can you retrospectively suspend a player for diving when the offense on the pitch is only a yellow card.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
jacks - no right of appeal is the answer, a bit authoritarian maybe but desperate times.... also, I've never understood why there is some much time between some decisions being made and the ban starting cut that out and have the ban starting by the next match then everyone knows where they stand.
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331. Robbo Robson
"It's on the back of every other whinge that I'm having a pop. If it was a one-off you might be able to understand... I just wish he'd wind his neck in sometimes."
Ah right, so you chose to write this article slagging off Fergie because he is a repeat offender? So presumably when Redknapp, Benitez, Allardyce, Wenger, Hughes et al complain about referees for only the second time in their career you will jump on that too? I presume you'll condemn McLeish for his 'ref blast' last night? How dare he stick up for his team and point out a refereeing mistake. And as for Strachan... he's NEVER complained about referee decisions has he?
Normally I enjoy your blogs (even the anti-United stuff) but this blog is the equivalent of selling out.
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I still think sacking harry was west ham's biggest mistake
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#369
I've just seen that Robbo, he made Darren Bent's dive look like a convincing foul in comparison. Mind, that Thin Air's been a sturdy CB for many terams for many a year now.
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367. At 09:46am on 10 Nov 2009, sam gerrard wrote:
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I think Robbos point is that Ferguson is a bit quick to point to bad decisions costing his side points. In reality Utd get plenty of decisions for them and when the ref gets in wrong in favour of Utd Ferguson never has much to say about it. I think Ferguson has often made the ref the scapegoat in the past for covering up his own sides poor performance aswell.
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blog - I tend to remember Mourinho being the master of misdirection. Him and SAF would give Derren Brown a run for his money.
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#365. Bo - mine's sdder than yours mate you're in Oz; Im in Essex.
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Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh, are you saying they hypnotize the ref with their mad eyes? My dad was a hypnotist and he
NEVER ABUSED ME EVER.
NOT EVER.
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369. At 09:48am on 10 Nov 2009, Robbo Robson wrote:
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I dont think there should be any distinction here. A dive is a dive. If you start analysing things in terms of whether sock fibres actually made contact the point is completely missed. The reason the ban was overturned was because they were afraid of setting a dangerous precedent.
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At 09:52am on 10 Nov 2009, JoeDavisRoach wrote:
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I do see where your coming from, as our performance has been far below what it should be, I do think SAF should button it on occasions, but I still firmly believe that somethings needs to be done to improve the decisions refs make.
whether it be in our favour or against us, its not right for people to cheat there way to the win.
I still firmly think that we should have had a point at the bridge.
Many of the neutrals love to get there teeth stuck in to SAF but to be fair, there is only one sir Alex
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Joe - ah but what kind of sock fibres are we talking about here?
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JDR it is a precedent they need to set.
blog - if your dad was a ref was he Italian? Pierluigi Collina? Don't know what he does whilst not on the pitch though but if everyone was as good as him we would not have anything to say on this blog - about refereeing that is.
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I just wish the refs were more like those in the Spanish league they seem to have no fear of big names or big teams. Beckham for instance had to learn that abuse to the refs quickly results in you getting your marching orders. I would love to see refs do that to Fergie every time he swore at them.
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Seeing as JDR is here,can I just comment on your position on the use of technology.Would you have a video ref in communication with the main official in game or to use as a reference point(eg was X offside in the build up)?In terms of diving,is it a professional foul therefore a straight red card offence,whether applied retrospectively or not.With no appeal.
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384. At 10:01am on 10 Nov 2009, windwild9 wrote:
I just wish the refs were more like those in the Spanish league they seem to have no fear of big names or big teams. Beckham for instance had to learn that abuse to the refs quickly results in you getting your marching orders. I would love to see refs do that to Fergie every time he swore at them.
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Seems fair if they can give Arsene marching orders for booting a drinks bottle towards his own dug out in irritation.
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373. At 09:50am on 10 Nov 2009, _ceiling_fan_ wrote:
331. Robbo Robson
"It's on the back of every other whinge that I'm having a pop. If it was a one-off you might be able to understand... I just wish he'd wind his neck in sometimes."
Ah right, so you chose to write this article slagging off Fergie because he is a repeat offender? So presumably when Redknapp, Benitez, Allardyce, Wenger, Hughes et al complain about referees for only the second time in their career you will jump on that too? I presume you'll condemn McLeish for his 'ref blast' last night? How dare he stick up for his team and point out a refereeing mistake. And as for Strachan... he's NEVER complained about referee decisions has he?
Normally I enjoy your blogs (even the anti-United stuff) but this blog is the equivalent of selling out.
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Give it a rest, mate. The argument that everyone else does it is really not that strong. Besides which I regularly have a pop at others (including Bruce in this article) - as for Strachan the way things have gone so far I'm sure he'll be tearing the ref off a strip soon - and he shouldn't. McLeish said the ref made a bad decision, but that that was football. Didn't see him collaring a fourth official or doing a red-faced rain dance particularly, did you? I think the point is that Fergie's outrage is more apparent cos United don't lose very often - and his dicky fits tend to coincidence with those games that they do badly in.
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376. At 09:52am on 10 Nov 2009, JoeDavisRoach wrote:
367. At 09:46am on 10 Nov 2009, sam gerrard wrote:
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I think Robbos point is that Ferguson is a bit quick to point to bad decisions costing his side points. In reality Utd get plenty of decisions for them and when the ref gets in wrong in favour of Utd Ferguson never has much to say about it. I think Ferguson has often made the ref the scapegoat in the past for covering up his own sides poor performance aswell.
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A momentous day, Joe! I AGREE WITH EVERY WORD YOU'VE WRITTEN. QUick start another argument or we're in trouble.
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#388
I think it might be snowing in Hell as I type :O
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I never thought I'd see the day. First time I make a comment after reading the blog for so long and this happens!
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Isnt it funny how no-one at the beeb is complaining about refereeing decisions when liverpool were AGAIN let off the hook by an awful refereeing call...yet all this fuss about Sir Alex when he complains about a legitimate greivance.
BIASED BIASED BBC. jog on!
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Robbo - nothing hides the fact this was a terrible read.
your just writting about what every other mucker is saying about the man?
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Are you justifying the refs decisions on Sunday??
If you were the manager on the day - would you of quietly shuffled off to the dressing room??...
Or what about that great decision last night for Ngog to earn a penalty??
:s
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Of the four Premier League-winning sides next year (and even then none of them will be Liverpool)
quality!
i wont write too much as there already 400 responses, but this was one of your best articles. fergie IS a hypocrite (as are wenger, bruce, curbishley, allardyce, mourinho, redknapp, benitez, brown, oneill, and a few others.) fergie is the worst though. if he wasnt successful the press and fa would not fear him.
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Thats the problem - he IS sucessful..isn't that the point?
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391. At 10:18am on 10 Nov 2009, Croftalicious wrote:
Isnt it funny how no-one at the beeb is complaining about refereeing decisions when liverpool were AGAIN let off the hook by an awful refereeing call...yet all this fuss about Sir Alex when he complains about a legitimate greivance.
BIASED BIASED BBC. jog on!
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It is comedy, Liverpool are FINE when its them...
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thats my point...i feel sorry for fergie. yes he does shout his mouth off, yet on the occasions that he's done it this year its been warranted...the liverpool game noone with eyes can tell me carragher DIDNT pull owen down, and the unfit wiley was often miles behind the game, and sunday united were undone by their own poor finishing (which he admitted) and an awful refereeing call...cue: BBC headlines: "Fergies at it again!" "Ref off!"...ridiculous.
im not a united fan, my allegiance is far far far lower than that, but this kind of reporting really irritates me!
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ahhh, the terrible beauty that is football
We absolutely battered them last night but Birmingham continue to be a bogey side for us. Disappointed with the injuries, disappointed with the lack of composure in the final 20 mins of the match, we were too desperate to force another goal but overall created enough chances to win 2 or 3 games. Most of all though disappointed with Ngog's dive. It didn't look like it live but having seen it subsequently there's no defence. It's a shame for the lad, he had a good first half and scored a cracking volley. Let's hope it was a one off, I wouldn't want him to get a Ronaldo/Rooney reputation for diving.
Finally - bit of credit to Birmingham, they defended like their lives depended on it and Jerome will never score a better goal than that if he lives to be a hundred.
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396. At 10:27am on 10 Nov 2009, Croftalicious wrote:
"and the unfit wiley was often miles behind the game"
I meant to put "unfit" in quote marks! like so! typo bad! :P
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385. At 10:05am on 10 Nov 2009, jacksofbuxton wrote:
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I think theres a genuine danger with technology that it could actually slow the game down too much so it would have to be utilised and implemented effectively. Having one or even two video refs able to check key decisions such as offside/onside goals, penalty claims, red card offenses etc would definately lead to better decisions but you would have to expect an element of the game slowing down. The underlying theme seems to be most people in favour of getting decisions right and giving refs more support so there would need to be an element of sacrifice. The same arguments were offered in rugby - that tv match officials would slow the game down. It did to an extent but the decisions made improved and nearly everyone would agree that the sacrifice was worth it.
Given the pace of football today, the influence of the crowds and the amount of conning and sometimes even player/manager intimidation of refs I think mistakes and bottling calls is inneviteable. Its not really a case of refs "getting better" its more a case of the system needing to be better. It unrealistic to expect refs to get round the field at high tempo making every split second decision correctly. Most players and managers seem to be willing to sarifice the flow of the game in order to get better decisions so I think video refs in a certain capactity (largely penalty box incidents) would be helpful.
In regard to the bans for diving and setting a precedent for it - In clear cases it should definately be the case. The problem is there are relatively few clear cases. You have players going down at the slightest touch or tug of the shirt. Technically its a "foul" but in reality its a dive because the contact was so minimal that it didnt warrant going to ground. How do you go about trying to police this. Its difficult and the starting point from UEFA seems to be innocent until proven to a very high standar of guilt (when arguably with footballers it should be vice versa). Even in cases where a player does "dive" he can claim he slipped or fell and didnt intend to look for a penalty. Its a massive can of worms to open so I can see the relectance but it probably is time they started getting firm. The problem is so rife in the game that I would almost prefer players to be banned for a game even in cases where the incident is marginal purely because I think it would lead to a quicker eradication of the problem whereby players are far more reluctant to go down unneccearily or to try and con the ref. When you start arguing about contact of bootlaces and sock fibres justifying going to ground the purpose is defeated. By overturning Eduardos ban UEFA essentially said no he didnt dive when everyone knows he did.
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And wolrd peace has suddenly broken out as two giant warriors have finally reached an accord and agreed to lay down their arms.
Thank you President Obama for ending the JDR / Robbo war. Have a Nobel Peace Prize for your efforts
Now solve the Gaz vs Onion war
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At 10:27am on 10 Nov 2009, Croftalicious wrote:
thats my point...i feel sorry for fergie. yes he does shout his mouth off, yet on the occasions that he's done it this year its been warranted...the liverpool game noone with eyes can tell me carragher DIDNT pull owen down, and the unfit wiley was often miles behind the game, and sunday united were undone by their own poor finishing (which he admitted) and an awful refereeing call...cue: BBC headlines: "Fergies at it again!" "Ref off!"...ridiculous.
im not a united fan, my allegiance is far far far lower than that, but this kind of reporting really irritates me!
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Exactly - you only take out the bad parts of Fergie and make a 'article' about them.
As a united fan, hands up - it was our poor finishing against Chelsea and we didn't even turn up against Liverpool.
But refs decsions win games!!
one minuite all i hear is that refs give united extra time and make biast decisions for UTD. The next minuite Robbo and co are slaying in to the SAF for debating TERRIBLE decsions that are made against us.
Make your mind up! Liverpool have won what 1 game in 8-9??
Can you please write an article on this next time Robbo?
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Croft - I do not think anyone is really saying the rants cannot be backed up by evidence - most can and are proven to be errors - the problem is SAF/Wenger/Benitez & co should not be slagging off the referee in the media. It does their reputations (if they have any) no good and is not good for the game. They should vent their frustrations behind closed doors to the people that matter - the FA. You do not hear the refs ranting to the press after every game about the behaviour, or lack of it, of the players, managers, coaches and, in Red Nevs case, even the subs so why should SAF & co be given free rein.
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I do have a lot of sympathy with referees(I was a club linesman a long time ago).They are the people who make the decisions. They cannot always be perfect, but then name one player( or even a manager) who is perfect.
A referee has only 2 pairs of eyes including the linesman. We have several pairs of eyes eg camera angles.
Lets say Walton was 5yds to his right, rather than being almost behind Carlsey and Ngog, he then might not have given the pen last night. The ref is not always going to be in the right place.
Now if SAF and others want to improve the situation rather than complaining about every single decision when you lose, would he suggest the NFL route of the coach being able to appeal a decision,using a video replay. You have 3 chances to appeal, if succesful you retain the appeal, if unsuccesful you lose. If such a system was ever introduced, I'm sure SAF and his other gobby protege mangers, and others would lose all their appeals within minutes
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I find all the posts about Ngog to be slightly unfair considering Drogba dives week in week out and never EVER gets punished for it. We've had a flurry of yellow cards for diving this season, some correct some incorrect but none for Drogba whos been doing it for however many seasons he's been at Chelsea. Even Ronaldo got a few yellows for diving while he was at Utd but Drogba, no he's apparently untouchable in more ways than one. He was it at again against Utd this weekend diving to the ground at the faintest of touches from Brown and Evans. Do Chelsea have some special dispensation for cheating or something? They get away with EVERYTHING. The FA, UEFA, FIFA, how much money are these people being paid off?
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JDR - your last paragraph sums up my feelings in that you may get some of these things wrong but if banning a few innocents are the only consequences of eradicating the appalling behaviour prevalent in the game today then Machiavelli was right.
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387. At 10:08am on 10 Nov 2009, Robbo Robson wrote:
"Give it a rest, mate. The argument that everyone else does it is really not that strong."
Why not? Everyone else DOES do it - you admitted it in an earlier comment. Not everyone else get whole blogs dedicated to it though.
"Besides which I regularly have a pop at others (including Bruce in this article)"
Yes you do, but 'having a pop at others' is what you do best and it's usually very funny (even anti-United ones). But this blog wasn't really just 'having a pop', was it? And mentioning Steve Bruce's name in one line buried deep in a hatchet job of another manager (sorry, the Glasgae Groan) is hardly the same.
"McLeish said the ref made a bad decision, but that that was football. Didn't see him collaring a fourth official or doing a red-faced rain dance particularly, did you?"
Ah right, so you can moan about refereeing decisions but so long as you do it in a civilised, calm manner it's okay? That's where Ferguson must be going wrong. I remember earlier this season Wenger described a decision as 'Old Traffordish' but because he did it in a softly spoken voice it barely warranted a passing mention (no hysterical 'Wenger Slam's Ref' headlines on the BBC). For me, that's far worse than Ferguson going purple-faced when a decision goes against his team. (Incidentally, as a United fan, I love it that we've got a bad loser as manager!)
Without wanting to come across all JDR on you (who btw speaks a lot more sense than most on these blogs), I suggest you get back to writing your normal style of blog, having 'pops' at all and sundry, instead of chasing comments.
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Everyone spotted the dive by Ngog, but I thought that Brum had been on the wrong end of several 'dubious' decisions prior to that.
The one that most springs to mind is the 'final' tackle from behind that put McFadden on his arse right under the referees nose and he got nothing.
Clearly aggrieved after being on the end of a series of challenges he then makes his own bad tackle and rightly receives a booking.
His manager could see that he had lost it, and probably had no option but to replace him with McSheffry.
I have no doubt that this was all lost in the bigger context of the match, but these are the type of bad decisions that us smaller clubs get all the time. They add up, and they cost points, but we are classed as whingers if we mention them. So I thought I would mention it on behalf of the Birmingham fans.
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Joe,I quite agree with you over the time issue but if managers keep telling us "They only want the correct decision made" then they will have to put up with the break in the game.As for diving,players can be clever at going down but if a stiff penalty (no pun intended)is put in place will it prevent the more obvious and ludicrous dives such as last night?
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im not a united fan, my allegiance is far far far lower than that,
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Which club - Man City or Liverpool
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Look this is rediculous. A bloke says something about another one, and the second bloke is already away off and doesn't even hear it. Who cares? If I was a ref, and really bad one, I would let Fergie say what he wants. So what? It's not like he is hurting anyone is it? If people are offended, they should remember the salaries, the amount of money involved and the fact that names never hurt anyone. Apart from the fact that a lot of criticism is deserved.
2: Haye v The big bloke? Did you see the weigh in? Vaulev has zero muscle and conditioning, There was not way he was going to win against Haye whose physical condition was just superb. It's like trying to get a Donkey race Sea the Stars, it's a non runner. over 10 15 or 100 rounds Haye was the only 'boxer' on show.
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You've got it totally wrong about Ferguson Robbo,he's quite entitled to comment every week if he feels it necessary,the standard of refereeing in the E.P.L.this season must be bordering on the worst in Europe,and when you look at last nights episode at Liverpool you really must ask the question of why a referee is'nt punished for failing to do his job properly,like a player is when he gets yellow or red cards,there is no excuse for Atkinson who is incidentally a FİFA referee but there again that does'nt mean anything after the performance of the Norwegian who refereed the Chelsea-Barcelona semi last season.I can't believe that Peter Walton actually saw that penalty incident last night,because if he did he wants putting back in the Championship for the rest of the season.As for Ferguson yes he does go on a bit but with justification because when you analize what he's said he's right, he will get his just punishment for the Wiley criticism which was totally unjustified and rightly so.When you manage any club and your judged on your teams performances so should a referee be on his,and that should be done independently,not by who oversees them.You don't notice a good referee unfortunately the E.P.L.is very short of them.
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What is tiresome is not Fergie 'ranting' about the ref. It is the media describing every word he says as a rant in the first place.
Because I watched the so-called rant myself, and he was in fact perfectly calm, just a bit disappointed.
He blamed his own teams failing for not having won - which is another thing he regularly does, unless you're blinded by the media spin which claims the opposite. But rightly pointed out that it wasn't a free-kick, and that Drogba pulled Brown down.
Note: He did NOT claim that Drogba was off side. This is yet another point made up by people in the media si they can point out he was wrong. Either that or they wrote their story about the match before it had even finished.
So, what are you trying to tell us Robbo? Are we simply not allowed to mention game changing mistakes which the refs make? And why not? We bang on for long enough when a player or manager does the same. Fergie went too far with 'fitness-gate', I'm sure we can all agree. But to suggest that people in the game can't point out a referees mistake is ludicrous. They're supposed to be respected, not worshipped!
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we shud have won Man U by a greater margin if drogba lived to his billings, poor him, must now be blown off with a bazuka before a referee gets a call in his favour. That fella is up there with the bests of Hollywood. Thumbs up JDR, u've really succeeded in creating a handful of ignorant robbo slayers, well done Son, and u've ironically jumped ships..woohoo, welcome to the "cracking blog, robbo" bandwagon. i'm loving every piece of this. step forward Derek Robson,kneel Son... by the power invested on me by RBA,Trotter,spitfire,Gaz...even JDR..hmm(shudders), i hearby dub thee a knight...Arise Sir Derek Robson!
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plf said the standard of refereeing in the E.P.L.this season must be bordering on the worst in Europe
Would strongly disagree with this comment, I watch a lot of Bundesliga games and they can be equally good and bad. Again we are only criticising when it goes against your club. Do we ever applaud the good decisions eg the advantage rule, trouble is when we lose the ball we complain to the ref for playing advantage. The ref cant win
Bring back P-L Collina, now there is a man with respect
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harsh to critics the ref for that pen last night, from the angle he was at for all the World that looked a pen
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411. At 11:10am on 10 Nov 2009, premier league fan wrote:
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This sums it up perfectly - the media ( which does include the BBC i.e Robbo ) have painted a picture of SAF that he wrongly complains, the points he makes are 99% correct and he as a manager is just after answers.
He blames his own teams performance when its right to do so.
As you rightly said, the standard of refereing is THE worst in europe!!
shockingly bad decisions are made on a weekly basis.
If you want to close the door on the fact this is true Robson then by all means.
Last night at Liverpool just sums it up for me really.
The ref obviously didn't have his eye on the ball - his reaction was simply ' a player went down in the box ' = Penalty.
I feel for the Birmingham lads who put the effort in, and then defended like dogs for the rest of the game - shame they couldn't hold out (or do i mean its a shame that the ref is to blame again?)
And what a shame for that moment of stupidness to cancel out such a great strike.
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Collina got respect because he was consistent and made very few mistakes. Our FIFA listed refs such as Marriner and Atwell make loads. In fact why wasn't Attwell demoted to the BSQ when he gave that goal that hit the corner flag against Watford last season?
The fact that he was stepped up to the Premier League following it justifies everything Fergie, Wenger or Benitez says about refs at the moment
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TommyOnion wrote:
harsh to critics the ref for that pen last night, from the angle he was at for all the World that looked a pen
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tehn he needs to improve his positioning during play wouldn't you say
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The grass is always greener. Worst refs in Europe my @rse. Based on a comprehensive study of all the leagues no doubt.
Too many people round here with only one eye open.
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416. At 11:23am on 10 Nov 2009, sam gerrard wrote:
The ref obviously didn't have his eye on the ball - his reaction was simply ' a player went down in the box ' = Penalty.
actually Sam, i'd say the opposite, the fact the defender didn't get the ball - i.e. there was no deviation to it's path, would have swayed the ref into thinking it was a pen.
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418. At 11:27am on 10 Nov 2009, adampsb wrote:
tehn he needs to improve his positioning during play wouldn't you say
No, it's a live, flowing game of sport, he can't be in the perfect position to see everything all the time.
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In fact - looking at it again here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ttlkk4dKM8 his positioning is pretty good, the only thing that obscures the moment of 'contact' is the dive made in the attempted tackle by the Birmingham defender.
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Unless C. Ronaldo falls out with Guti because of the bottle of Old Spice and comes back to United in January, Chelsea will just run away with it.
This is because Arsenal 'one of the big 4 but not as big as the other 2'as usual won't survive the winter, I can't wait to see the 'sleek passing football' on a dodgy pitch in Bolton/Stoke/Sunderland/etc... in January. You are right they're a patronising bunch those Arsenal fans, they're so good they don't even need to win to look smug, if I was a glory hunter I would choose another team.
What were the odds before the fight for a Haye win?
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What were the odds before the fight for a Haye win?
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Both 10/11 at the start.
Valuev was favourite after the final bell.
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sam gerrard - pathetique, don't know why robbo bothered replying to your juvenile attempts at typing
i mean really, this below is just pointless.
294. At 9:36pm on 09 Nov 2009, THE_FEN_DEVIL wrote:
So just watched Ngog blatantly dive. Worse than Rooney or Eduardo. Disgusting.
and fergie should shut up. alan sugar is a success, doesn't mean he's not a massive a$$
JDR, notice you haven't answered my question - it is the reason technology won't happen soon.
N'Gog, for all that i'm glad he is finally doing something, cheated yesterday to win a pen. Having said that, if Lee 'White Orc' Carsley came for me i'd probably cower as well.
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425. At 11:40am on 10 Nov 2009, captainlazytim wrote:
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what is the question? Must have missed it.
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420. At 11:29am on 10 Nov 2009, TommyOnion wrote:
If you look at the refs positioning then it is quite clear that he was in a great position to see there was no contact, even my younger sister could of made a better decision.
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At 11:40am on 10 Nov 2009, captainlazytim wrote:
Have you watched any EPL games recently, i'm guessing you are just another one of these rodents that are blind to see the terrible decisions the refs are making these days.
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The issue is how do you make sure the technology is applied equally in every game, even at Prem level. Maybe twice as many camera's at OT as at The Boleyn, for example. And them down the leagues, as well?
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Just synchronise the camera to Fergies glasses and every decision will be correct
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428. At 11:55am on 10 Nov 2009, captainlazytim wrote:
The issue is how do you make sure the technology is applied equally in every game, even at Prem level. Maybe twice as many camera's at OT as at The Boleyn, for example. And them down the leagues, as well?
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Im sure a solution can be found. I mean the more cameras the better but a balance could be found and if certain additional cameras were needed in grounds they could be installed. The argument would seem to be because there are more cameras in OT then more correct decisions will be made there which isnt fair?
A certain standard level shouldnt be too hard to acheive and its all for the greater good anyway.
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So what happens in grass roots football then? Do the refs have links to local CCTV cameras? Any change you make should be applicable all the way through football. Leave it as is, they make mistakes, it evens itself out over a season. Ferguson is bitter because they lost the game, if the reverse were true he'd have said nothing, his agenda has nothing to do with improving refereeing like Phelan said. He is simply shifting focus from his team's poor performance, and allotting blame. I half wonder if he is trying to win favourable decisions from referees in the future with these tactics of intimidation? Before anyone jumps on that, it's no bad thing, he's doing his thing and it's worked for years, most fans would say they get more than their share of contentious decisions in their favour.
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409. At 11:01am on 10 Nov 2009, adampsb wrote:
im not a united fan, my allegiance is far far far lower than that,
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Which club - Man City or Liverpool
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luton mate! ;-) haha!!
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428. At 11:55am on 10 Nov 2009, captainlazytim wrote:
The issue is how do you make sure the technology is applied equally in every game, even at Prem level. Maybe twice as many camera's at OT as at The Boleyn, for example. And them down the leagues, as well?
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they argued about that when rugby started to consider using TV replays...the number of live television feeds at all the stadiums in the premiership will offer plenty of angles, and it doesnt take much to put a man with a camera at specific places around a football groud. this season, more so than any other in recent memory, has highlighted how dinosaurish UEFA et all are being about the use of technology in football. it hasnt hampered rugby, NFL, Tennis, Taekwondo, Horse Racing...why should it hamper football? AND it would alleviate pressure on referees, so they can be more relaxed and as such, will be able to make hard decisions in clearer mind...win win??
or will UEFA/FIFA keep living in the dark ages?? probably.
and as far as retrospective punishment on cheating: they use that in rugby too...AND it works...so why should football be different? jonny evans assaults drogba: 3 match ban, drogba dives 4/5 times a game: 2/3 match ban, SAF gets up close and personal with the 4th official: 2/3game ban, referees make blinding errors eg. fletcher deserved a penalty and got booked for diving: rescind yellow card.
people make mistakes, its human, but referees seem immune to chastisement for their mistakes. why? they shouldn't be, the same as players/managers etc arent, look at rafa's somewhat precarious position atm (though of course its down to the injury 'crisis' of 2 players out...nice one BBC!) he's expected to get results...liverpool have won 1 in eight, (and that was helped by an unfathomable refereeing decision...) and he's facing alot of pressure as a result.
I think referees who make awful calls, or those who make consistent incorrect calls, should be suitably punished.
and also: Wayne Rooney is a legend! "12 men"...? he was right, but of course, he was punished...i bet the ref wont be!
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Has anyone here actually ever done any reffing? I have, and its really really difficult. The refs do a much better job than you would. Sometimes you can't see what has happened whatever your positioning because unlike my dad Collina I dont have eyes in the side of my head. And all 11 players have 2 legs each that tend to get in the way. But you still have to make a decision. "I'm really not sure" is not an acceptable reffing decision. There's got to be a greater role for the 4th Official and the use of refferals, as in cricket, for at least some incidents eg goal line stuff; penalty dives, the kind of thing that won't break the flow of a game (and I know often these decisions inevitably do). Either that or insist on amputations - one legged players would give the ref much better sight-lines.
Add to that enormous pressure from partisan know-alls at the side, amongst whom I'd include most of the posters here, and I'm not sure why anyone bothers reffing ever. I quit when I started to doubt I could stop myself from hitting spectators. It's easy to forget that: no ref= no game. You only need refs any way because at a professional level Noone (plays for Exter City) is going to tell the truth. The players know what happened best of all but if they foul, they're hardly going to do a 1950s cricketting gentleman and walk off the pitch, are they now?
The gist of my moderated posting was that Fergie seems "irrational" and "annoying" in order to "pressurise" refs the next time; they know they'll be "pilloried" in the press for any mistorks so they will be more inclined to give the "benefit of any doubt". It's not "honourable" but it probably works. If every manager did it, people would start switching off. Thank god he doesn't talk to the bbc.So I agree with Robbo someone should "switch him off" but not in the "manner of the mafia".
Hope this doesn't offend any mafiosi who may be reading.
I think I was modded for not putting "cheat" into quotes, as per the bbc headline http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/b/birmingham_city/8351713.stm
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
In fairness blogdignag,I think most people accept referees are in an impossible position(easy scapegoat) and do their very best.(I,for one,would love to see Chris Kamara have a go.Then he might belt up)I would suggest that using technology as an aid would help them,reduce the opportunity for "not our fault the ref didn't...."excuses.It may not be possible,but let's give it a go.
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sam - enough to know that it isn't called the EPL. Why? You think somehow that 'these days' referees get it all wrong, that the standards are dropping fast. Has it ever occured to you that it is merely coverage that improves, and that the refs are in better shape than ever? Do you ever think on the relationship between money and pressure?
No, you don't. You'd rather make a giant, sweeping statement, backed up by no facts or stats, to whine about. I am not blind, but if it would save me having to read the purile drivel you've splashed over this normally interesting discussion.
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....The argument would seem to be because there are more cameras in OT then more correct decisions will be made there which isnt fair?
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Are you suggesting Joe, that more correct decisions are made at OT?
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Wayne Rooney made it personal though didn't he, publicly slating the referees performance. The ref didn't go public in saying Rooney was rubbish today. To carry on the mob theme, never let them know you;re upset.
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Jacks - I don't think most people do accept that; but I agree that with such high stakes technology can play a greater role. A robot instead of Alan Hansen, for instance, would be a great improvement.
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I thought Alan Hansen was a robot.
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437. At 12:20pm on 10 Nov 2009, BojanglesOfOz wrote:
....The argument would seem to be because there are more cameras in OT then more correct decisions will be made there which isnt fair?
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Are you suggesting Joe, that more correct decisions are made at OT?
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No just that is there are more cameras at OT, a hypothetical video ref would have more angles to choose from and thus be in a position to make better decisions.
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I can't post what I think of Alan"list of nouns" Hansen without being modded.And as for"Lawro"....
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yet, in the heat of the moment, when you feel aggreived, rightly or wrongly, its difficult to control your emotions. i know that he's an X-1000-pound-a-week footballer, and a new dad etc: but Rooney had as much right to speak out about his particular aggreivence as anyone else, and he was obviously worked up by it, so him saying that was understandable: wrong, and unprofessional i agree, but true nonetheless; and, as such, justifiable.
also: "whole heartedly agree with captainlazytim in post 436". it IS coverage that improves: now all that the football world need to do is learn to implement that coverage for the betterment of the game, and stop being so ridiculous about it. of course its unrealistic to implement it at grassroots, what sport has that? none, at all. but in the higher levels of the game it should be available. with the money and resources football has continuing to ignore technological advantages IS ridiculous. it wont miraculously solve 'wrong decisions' as who is to say that the TV officials' view of the incident is perfect? but it will certainly help.
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#434 its a fair cop
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I cant imagine the fans wanting to wait for judges to examine video's before a decision is given. It works OK in the cricket but cricket is a slow paced game to begin with.
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Joe - it has affected tennis, if you watched Wimbledon last year you'll remember a backlog causing one semi-final to have Hawkeye, and one not to, which is unfair. As Stevat says, it isn't realistic to roll out at all levels.
It is a bit silly to compare to NFL, as someone already pointed out, as the game has the breaks built in, and even in rugby there is a lot less importance on the flow of the game.
Finally, it has damaged rugby, and the refereeing. Clear tries are denied because the ref cannot make a decision, asks for a TV ref to help, and then there is no angle (mauling over the try-line as an example). Interestingly, most of the time the call is bounced back to the ref, who is forced to make the decision he should have made originally.
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Croft - Referees should not be immune to chastisement but they should not be getting it from the likes of SAF!
The argument about not bringing in technology because you cannot do it at the grass roots level is bunkum. Most of the games I've played are lucky to get one official never mind three and I did not see many fourth officials down the Hackney Marches on a Sunday in my time (probably a good idea as I doubt they would have made it home in one piece).
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It's been many a long year since the Hacney Marshes arrrrgh. I had almost forgotten them.
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447. At 12:32pm on 10 Nov 2009, arrrrgh wrote:
Croft - Referees should not be immune to chastisement but they should not be getting it from the likes of SAF!
The argument about not bringing in technology because you cannot do it at the grass roots level is bunkum. Most of the games I've played are lucky to get one official never mind three and I did not see many fourth officials down the Hackney Marches on a Sunday in my time (probably a good idea as I doubt they would have made it home in one piece).
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Indeed. When my sister used to play for a local ladies team the ref would more often than not have to ask one or two of the fitter dads if they could be linesmen.
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I still do not understand why it is OK for any professional involved in the sport to slag off the officials of the game that is paying their wages. No matter how crap or unfair you think the decisions have been you are being paid a fortune by that sport and should keep your mouth shut and let others do the talking. It is a thing called RESPECT, a thing which virtually no footballer seems to possess nowadays.
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arrrrgh - i know, and i understand that. but I can only remember one incident of refereeing stupidity that was publicly bemoaned by the governing body: 3 yellow cards? = idiot!
so if the FA isnt going to give them a roasting...who will? these incidents (unfairly?) affect games, so they have to be minimised.
captainlazytim: i agreed with your last post then you go and blatantly contradict me? harsh! :P haha. grass roots rugby refereeing, in particular, I always found to be decent, if not good, sunday league football as well, as there is less pressure on the officials, and they have only their own mind to make up, and as such are more relaxed about making the calls. Of course, as the stakes rise, so does the pressure, and the need for a second opinion: that is why tv officials are important, its unfair for one man to have to take all the pressure, but at the same time: they are professional too, so they shouldnt be allowed to make many mistakes. If the pressure was alleviated for particularly tough calls, or important calls, then where is the problem?
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Starfire - Then in SAF's opinion they would probably do a better job than Mr. Riley though you do not have to run as far on the line.
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Croft - you've never played sunday league footie, have you?
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44. At 3:08pm on 09 Nov 2009, celery_schtick wrote:
I'd rather see a panel of ex-refs AND ex-pros sit every week and review contentious decisions and brandish (or rescind) cards post-match.
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As long as it doesn't involve Graham Poll. I intensely resent that any part of my TV license fee is already paid to that egocentric, attention-seeking ex-incompetent "ref".
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443. At 12:29pm on 10 Nov 2009, Croftalicious wrote:
First, Crofty, Rooney has as much right as any other player to express himself on the pitch - none. He should do it professionally, and not criticise others for his shortcomings.
Second, it isn't about the Marshes, but Leagues One and Two, professional football. How are already cash-strapped clubs going to be abole to afford to implement this. It isn't realistic to have the footage available at even Championship level.
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Captain,the premier league generates enormous revenue.They can give some of it back to the four divisions.
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captainlazytim: i agreed with your last post then you go and blatantly contradict me? harsh! :P haha. grass roots rugby refereeing, in particular, I always found to be decent, if not good
It wasn't personal, i just felt you'd missed the gist. I've watched far too much local sport, and the refs are normally appaling to a level you wouldn't believe, especially if they have a connection to one of the teams, which is often the case.
Second, if you think there isn't as much pressure at that level, look at the number of refs who are physically and verbally assaulted. They are at risk, where top refs have Police and stewards around.
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Maybe there are too many camera's at the football. Way back when (maybe camera's were not invented then) before games were televised there was rarely a comment made about referees by players or managers. I would go so far as to say referees are better today than they were way back.
Every decision ref's make today are scrutenised from a dozen different camera angles. Of course mistakes are made, like the Ngog dive but I have t say when I first saw the incident I thought it was a penalty. And the camera angle it was first seen from was similar to that of the referee's. After seeing it from a different angle it became apparent that it was a dive.
Perhaps the and answer would be to only have the one camera at the game.
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456. At 12:55pm on 10 Nov 2009, jacksofbuxton wrote:
Captain,the premier league generates enormous revenue.They can give some of it back to the four divisions.
that's the dream, jacks, but you only have to look at the tax-sheets to see how clubs feel about 'helping out those below'. Twill never 'appen.
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True,captain,true...
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captainlazytim: wouldn't it be up to the FA to provide the technology? or at least subsidies the poorer clubs who cant afford it? They're the ones who supply the refs afterall! and the actual video technology is available at all stadiums, there are TV cameras (even Luton have them!) all there needs to be is someway/where to view the screens and be in touch with the ref, and thats not break-the-bank stuff.
and blogdignag: no, I havent played sunday league football in a while, since school infact...wow...thats gone quick! but I watch all my housemates games, and have ran the line a couple of times for them. im not going to say i've never flagged for a wrong decision, but I certainly haven't born witness to any match-altering errors. I do play ametuer rugby however, and am very rarely contentious about refereeing decisions. and trust me, theres alot more cheating in one rugby game from the tight 5's, then in 20 football games!
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I agree with the points on reffing - it is not easy, and as long as a ref gets the majority of decisions right, they're doing well.
If you want to make the game as fair as possible, the players have a much bigger responsibility. If they cut out the cheating, then they might be in a position to whine at the ref.
Take the diving and play-acting; it's absolutely ridiculous, and it doesn't really happen in other sports to the same extent - apart from wrestling.
How about sending players off when they dive? If you can get sent off for deliberately stopping a goal-scoring chance, you should be sent off for deliberately cheating to make one.
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Half decent blog Robbo, I do think it was an obvious choice though and one that will keep popping up until Sir Alex retires, I just hope there's not another 'Who deserves to play for England next year' type blog appearing in the near future as they have already been tried and tested and raise the same arguments.
To all of the bloggers who think that Premiership refs are poor compared to their European counterparts, you are wrong believe me. I like Italian footy, I know its a little drab lately but then I'm a Wednesday fan so it comes with the nature. But an incident still sticks in my mind from a few weeks back in Serie A during Lazio Vs Sampdoria, this is off the Italian footy site and it involved the 'in form' Pazzini on a one and one with Lazio's Goalie:
"Pazzini was fortunate to remain conscious when he was accidentally punched in the face by Muslera, visibly breaking his nose. It was a bizarre incident, as the striker seemed to get to the ball first, but rather than a penalty the referee awarded a goal kick."
Pazzini's still wearing his face mask I think, or at least he was up until a week ago, my point is what would have been said if that was instead during a top 4 premiership game? Would Sir Alex have bitten his lip? I think not. Is premiership refereeing better than Italy and Spains? Nope, everyone makes mistakes. Refereeing is not an easy job, they sometimes get it wrong and they should be slapped by the FA if they make a big, obvious error, but certain managers just slate the ref everytime they lose and questioning their fitness is a poor example of a professional manager.
They think its poor in the premiership? I might even invite the handful of premiership dugout cheifs to come and watch my sunday league team play this weekend and see their reactions to the ref's decisions then, they'd lose their voices!
Which might mean no blog next week
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aahhh Sunday league football where noone (the Exeter player) complains about the ref after a game as they have exacted revenge long before then.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
How about sending players off when they dive?
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Wholeheartedly agree strange. The send off should be applied to a dive anywhere on the pitch too, not just the penalty area.
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Second, if you think there isn't as much pressure at that level, look at the number of refs who are physically and verbally assaulted. They are at risk, where top refs have Police and stewards around.
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i havent personally ever seen this happen. im not saying it doesn't though, and i suppose i hadnt thought about it. but if we're talking about pressure in terms of money...which is what the football world is now about, as almost all professional sport is now about for that matter, and perspective then the higher echelons have alot more riding on them.
random example: do you remember that mastercard advert when the guy was treated good by some, and rubbish by others? then turned out he was a referee? spotlight refs decisions have much more riding on them, and more people see them, than lower league referees. thats more what i meant :D
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No, Bo (thanks for practically quoting me), the answer is to be a professional. I believe that the fundamental issue is that Rooney, Gerrard, Fergie, whoever you want to name, is a footballing genius, or close to that in comparison with anyone else.
Sadly, this means sacrificing their education. Footballers are the problem, with their belief that the ability they have physically makes them superior. In reality they are more like Hitler's dream army, all inbred and strong, sacrificing brain in exchange for muscles. You only have to watch how Rooney or Drogba behaves to see that passion is another way of saying 'socially and mentally under-developed'
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Bloga, your post #803 in the previous blog just serves as further evidence of what's been suspected all along, you truly are the Wolfgang Amadeus Motzart of the blog!
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Is it about time that the BBC find someone who IS NOT an ABU. I am getting sick of reading and listening to BBC journalist that like nothing better than slagging off United, even do Ferguson couldn't have been anymore right, it was a penatly on Valencia, Rooney was clearly on-side and it was never a free kick on Cole and Drogba both fouled Brown and was off-side it isn't too much to ask that United get at least one of the decisions is it????
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496: Why are you still trotting along the previous blog?
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who referred 470 to the mods? i dont think that there was anything there thats was inappropriate or inaccurate?
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471 he's in the past you're seeing the future. 496?
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Valencia conceded a penalty? Which United is ABU for then? My team was United before yours, that mean everyone hates all United clubs.
As it is in that game Man U seemed to get plenty of decisions go their way, you could argue they were slightly unlucky in that they weren't key - but Ancelotti isn't going to point out the occasions his players were incorrectly flagged offside because he won the game.
The argument that a lot is riding on these decisions is rubbish from a sporting point of view. A decision in an under 11's game is no less important than one in a Premier League game. The captain is right here in my opinion, all sense of sporting endeavour, honesty and good old fashioned graft seems to have been lost to an elect bunch of highly paid, pampered, often socially inept egotists.
The only pure form of football left is internationals now for me, roll on the World Cup.
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463. At 1:04pm on 10 Nov 2009, Owls_Geezer wrote:
Perfect, Owl, reminds me of SCHUMACHER, the unequivocal proof refereeing wasn't better back when
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all my sensible comments get deleted yet again.
oh well that happens in blogworld and i just have to deal with it.
rock on mods.
now sits and thinks. hmmmmm
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
432. At 12:11pm on 10 Nov 2009, Croftalicious wrote:
409. At 11:01am on 10 Nov 2009, adampsb wrote:
im not a united fan, my allegiance is far far far lower than that,
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Which club - Man City or Liverpool
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luton mate! ;-) haha!!
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arrrrgh
Are you Jeff Winter in disguise?
They're higher than those 2 in the league of teams that Utd fans like
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Thanks captain
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@ #477
You're an idiot!!!
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Spit, we were just winding up proceedings over there, shutting off the lights and locking the door!
In other news, the Queen has allegedly summoned SAF to the Palace, word is she's going to strip him of his knighthood if he doesn't stop moaning about the conspiracy against his team. She and her advisers reckon the conspiracy is a good one and should not be interfered with in this way.
She's even thinking of launching a RESPECT campaign which will partially (amongst other objectives) help divert attention away from the incompetence of referees!
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#477 Barry Craven is a financial services professional spelt with a W
STUPID BANKER
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another spot on blog Robbo!there will always be if and buts in the game,how far do we want technology to go!let SAF blow his rag-he will anyway,so what
"My mate Len - says that they need to start making football shirts out of Velcro patches". an honest opinion as every corner ,free kick whatever there is always someone on the deck!or is it due to the fact that the groundsman forget that patch when preparing the pitch?
Ronaldo and Drogba are saints as far as I am concerned-watching Ngog go down last night to a Carsley tackle!! was simply too much,cannot understand how he got away with it!
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Barry, you admitted spelling SAF wrong on purpose but the rest? I had to use an online translator before I realised once I could make out what you were trying to say it was terrible blogging.
I know people mock the Sun and Mirror readers on here but you are surely a daily sport fan
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"the NFL route of the coach being able to appeal a decision,using a video replay. You have 3 chances to appeal, if succesful you retain the appeal, if unsuccesful you lose."
exactly. It's already in place in numerous other major sports in this country, and there's a reason for it. Defending the referee because he can't get his positioning right all the time is just silly, because although it's fair enough, its not acceptable for it to come down to that when the result of each of these decisions is worth millions.
We don't pay to watch the referee decide the course of the game, we pay to see the players do that. A good referee will be incidental, and although they should continue to do what they do now, they should be SUPPORTED by technology.
If the FA want to support them, they would be far better served on this route than the silly "you can't shout at our guys" rubbish they peddle now.
And neither is a few games at a lower league punishment enough - because in the end no one cares except them. And in their defence, they can only be so good. They'll never compete with instant replays, so combine the too.
Just like writing this blog (does it avoid commenting on the travesties going in Liverpool's favour for the second week in a row? Check), it's not rocket science clearly.
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446. At 12:32pm on 10 Nov 2009, captainlazytim wrote:
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Id have to disagree there. I think the feedback in rugby has been overwhelmingly positive and has led to better decisions in awarding/disallowing tries overall. In mauling where there is no clear grounding if the tv official cant see it from various angles its unlikely the ref did.
My comparison with nfl was more to do with integration of assistant refs as opposed to tv replays. In NFL there are lots of sets of eyes watching for infringements and if there is one they alert the main ref immediately. In football this doesnt happen enough in my view. They tried it to an extent making linesmen assistant referees but it has worked all that well and further assistance is needed.
Personally I think TV technology could be introduced in limited capacity at the start and not cause a huge change. What change that does arise would probably be worth it if decisions were significantly improved.
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481. At 1:37pm on 10 Nov 2009, TrotterUSA wrote:
Spit, we were just winding up proceedings over there, shutting off the lights and locking the door!
In other news, the Queen has allegedly summoned SAF to the Palace, word is she's going to strip him of his knighthood if he doesn't stop moaning about the conspiracy against his team. She and her advisers reckon the conspiracy is a good one and should not be interfered with in this way.
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That is plausible. Of course we all know that Her Majesty is an avid Arsenal fan.
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5 games? Rubbish, you're saying it's worse than violent conduct?!
One game would suffice (possibly up to three, but only if the FA follow through with a ruling that lets refs show red to divers in the box), first time offender, been found out and should learn from the humiliation he is going to receive over the coming weeks.
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why are people so scared of change? If a change makes things better, how can that be a bad thing?
Just because refereeing has always been susceptible to personal bias, and the decision making often erratic and inconsistent isn't reason enough to maintain it.
As for the rubbish that they'd be nothing to talk about, there's a whole game to talk about rather than the bad decisions. Of course, that might put bloggers out of a job, but there's always a positive side to everything.
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Joe - the NFL is a moot point (GenesisRed) because of the lack of flow to the game. Before the video-ref the man on the spot would make a decision based on instincts.
I'm not really arguing, we are both on the same page, but football is resistant to change for a reason, and i feel we've a long way to go, in terms of other things to try, before we can throw our hands up and say 'that's it, we need the cameras'. As i've said, if the players and managers cared that much they could make his job 100 times easier by being honest sportsmen. How hypocritical is it for Rooney, or Drog, or anyone else, to dive one week and complain about being cheated the next? I actually hate footballers that do moan for this reason: do they think i've forgotten last week already?
Genesis -
Just like writing this blog (does it avoid commenting on the travesties going in Liverpool's favour for the second week in a row? Check), it's not rocket science clearly.
aah, you almost had the big-boy pants, just couldn't resist, could you?
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#469.
Trotter - cheers mate, i thought it was you. it's all a bit of a laugh isn't it? i struggle to take anything seriously here. i try sometimes.
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why resist when it feels good?
anyway, the NFL is just one example. Over here it's already used in Tennis, Rugby, Cricket (not the requests, but the technology) and Hockey (virtually identical to but faster than Football, but with sticks). And it works. Would it take longer to deal with than the arguments that follow the godawful decisions? Not really. We can see in seconds on video replays what the truth is, and those 6th referees or whatever would be reviewing the big decisions anyway and just tell the ref who can call the game back if necessary).
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Funny how Fletcher had the audacity to say Arsene Wenger is the one who influences referees.
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485. At 1:47pm on 10 Nov 2009, GenesisRed wrote:
Just like writing this blog (does it avoid commenting on the travesties going in Liverpool's favour for the second week in a row? Check), it's not rocket science clearly.
Two sendings off at Fulham = in our favour?
some people are weird
i'm all for technology being introduced though and retrospective bannings for diving and upgrading it to a red card offence if seen by the ref.
However, Ngog's actions were no worse than Rooney's v Arsenal or Bent's v Spurs at the weekend, or indeed Drogba's on any of the many occasions he flings himself to the floor.
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2 interesting pieces of news-
Gus Poyet is now mananger of Brighton and I think will continue teh good work he did at Spurs and Leeds
Callum Davenport is being prosecuted for allegedly slapping his sister one as he tried to stop her boyfriend stabbing him in the legs while she attacked her own mother.
So in addition to being in the hospital and having his career ended after being crippled for life he could end up doing porridge in teh clink for protecting himself and his mother from his sister and her boyfriend.
Messsed up or what?
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