Relyin' on Ryan
So if you were a professional footballer would you have voted for Giggsy as player of the season? Nah. Any right thinking person would've plumped for Gerrard or Vidic.
But the PFA award is always an odd one.
First of all the pros cast their votes in February, which is really a bit ridiculous considering the nub of the season hasn't arrived yet. If you ask petrol-heads who the best driver of the F1 season is, they'll tell you Jenson Button. Might not be by the end of the year though, eh? (Not that I could give a fig about all that vroom vroom capering... Give it five years and I think they can get shot of the drivers altogether and we'll just have Ross Brawn and Flavio Briatore with little remote control gizmos in their hands. Life-sized Scalextric, in other words.)
The other thing about the PFA Award is that the opinion of critics and journos has nowt to do with it. Personally I think this is less a Player of the Year Award and more a lifetime achievement gong for Giggs. (Much like the BAFTA French and Saunders got though, personally, on the comedy stakes, even Giggsy pips them lasses). Paul Scholes would be in the running too were it not for the fact when you play against him you're occasionally the victim of a 'challenge' akin to being assaulted by a maniacal ginger squid.
At 35 a mazy left-winger should be developing a beer-belly in his posh bar in Ayia Napa not cruising around the midfield picking out passes and scoring vital goals (all right, make that goal, singular).
But allied to Ryan's enduring ability are the things he's not doing. He's not marrying girl band divas and mouthing obscenities at the boys in blue. He's not getting into little fracas in lounge bars at half-three in the morning. He's not phoning up knee-jerk shock-jocks to defend himself - although thumbs up to Lamps for that. Can't say I'm a great one for checking me facts meself but as far as Lampard's private arrangements are concerned that's his business and some opinionated no-mark shouldn't be using the contents of some column-filling claptrap to give his listeners something to blab on about.
Mind you, Ryan's not rising to the bait of some no-mark numpties on some East End terraces either - and while I have a lot of sympathy for Frank and Terry it's best to let your feet rather than your victorious fists do the talking when you're on a football field.
Also, you don't see Giggsy plummeting to the turf like a poster boy for the movie Platoon either.
In other words, Giggs just gets on with it and keeps his head down. And if his fellow pros think that's worth a great deal then that's a pretty good indication that the vast majority of footballers in this country respect a decent and top quality player.
And while we are on the subject of good behaviour I think it's only fair to commend Mr Redknapp for his pretty restrained post-match interview on Saturday. I was expecting an absolute tirade against the Well Wide Webb but 'Arry, whilst being very clear that the ref had a 'mare, didn't slag the bloke off personally. It was the worst decision since 'we wuz Rob-bed' Styles penalised JLloyd Samuel for having the audacity to challenge El Tumblero da Gello in the box in September. I'm not sure why Carrick thought it okay to appeal to the ref after Gomes saved well at his feet but nevertheless it wasn't a difficult decision... I mean How 'ard can it be?
Furthermore 'Arry was quick to point out that his team were blinking hopeless after that and surely that's more important. Yes the penalty kick changed the game but Spurs were still 2-1 up. Their defence crumbled like the last Weetabix in the packet and while the keeper was brilliant in the first half it was Heurelho Gormless revisited in the second.
And United keep doing this at the mo - home to Villa, away to Sunderland, home to Spurs... they keep looking like they've lost it and then they pull it out. It's like watching Norman Wisdom carrying a Ming vase down a slippery flight of stairs at the mo. Except it's far better entertainment.
And I don't think Liverpool fans should entirely give up hope. I mean look where United's next game is, eh? The Riverside! We'll be bussing in the discarded turf from Wembley in the hope that a squeaky-bummed Fergie'll play the best 14-year olds he can find.
Liverpool will win their last four games so after defeat at the Boro where else can United throw it away?
Well, I expect the upcoming controversial refereeing decision at Old Trafford this Wednesday will inspire Arsenal to some sort of revenge on 16 May. Arshavin's 6-goal salvo could put things right back into the melting pot, don't you think?
It's fantasy, surely, but we're beginning to put our faith in magic down at the Blue Bell.
The pall of gloom has lifted. There's nowt to lose now. It's very likely we'll go down so let's have a bloody good go and see what happens. In fact, we're almost looking forward to it, to be honest. Sunderland and Hull are still well wobbly.
And Tony Thompson found a kettle chip that looked like Gareth Southgate yesterday evening. 'It's a sign!' he cried. But on closer inspection we realised that quite a lot of kettle chips look like our Gareth, and there was definitely a Fergie (paprika flavoured, you see) and a Peter Beardsley in there too. Nevertheless, the chip in question will remain uneaten until the season is utterly over. Up the Boro.
I'm Derek Robson. People call me Robbo. Legend has it I was raised in the furnace and smog of Teesside. Some might say I took the hard road. I like to tell folk I had trials for Middlesbrough, for Hartlepool and for burglary (not guilty). I've always loved sport. My job is to say it as I see it - whether it's in the bar of the Blue Bell or on this blog. You won't find me calling a spade a soil-redistribution implement.
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~17~RS~)
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
HAHA great blog as always
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I don't understand all the fuss about Webb's decision in terms of questioning his refereeing. People watching on telly had a much better view of the incident. There's a shock.
It seemed to me that Webb's the best part of 25 yards away when he makes the decision and some numpty on TV's assertion that "the direction of the ball" should have told him what he needed to know is a nonsense. Watch it again, Gomes gets the ball but he doesn't change the direction of it all that much after Carrick's iffy first touch.
Wrong decision? Yes. Was it a huge mistake from Webb, all things considered? Not from where I'm sitting.
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About time Giggsy got an award.not only is he one of the most consistant players in the Premiership,he is in my opinion one of the most underated players.Shame he's not English though.Imagine an England team with Giggs Beckham Scholes and Nicky Butt all in their prime.That would be quite something would'nt it!
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thats weak moderators... very weak.
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The facts are (as Rafa would say) his fellow Professional Footballers made the decision....end of story. I realise it's difficult being a Boro fan, but that's no excuse for a c**p blog like that...and that's another fact.
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Great blog Robbo however Ian Welby your post is near to being asked for moderation considering your view on Howard webb. He has actually given the title to may utd, I can not take anything away from the other goals that they scored or spurs shocking defending but united were never in the game untill that point. I think that All refs need to know that they cant make decisions like that. He needs a game in the championship to prove himself, the fact that he was 25 yrds away means that he was in a bad position to see the infringment.....bad refing then as he was in the wrong spot.
Robbo, please i beg you do the liverbird a favour next week and pull that smile off the ever teetering tinky winky of a man called ferguson. Cheers.
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Haha this is just a string of words followed by links to other stories!
Robbo, you have sold your soul (not that you ever had much of one anyway).
Good luck playing against Fergie next season (Y)
Darren Ferguson.
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Biased of course but I can't see where the decision was as iffy as everyone is making it sound. There was no obvious touch by Gomes in real time. In slow mo maybe but in real time it looked liek a penalty and Gomes obviously made contact with Carrick; he did not dive.
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I would not argue that Giggs has had a great career but as has been said has he started enough games or had a good enough season to justify it. In my opinion carrick, who wasn't even nominated, or gerrard should have got the award. I am not saying Giggs doesn't deserve an award but it should be a lifetime achievement award not player of the season award as quite simply he hasn't been even nearly the best player in the premiership this year. he has played very consistantly but barley gets into the united starting line up.
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Lat game of last season was Mike riley so shut up mightysoprano.
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Oops it was actuall Steve Bennett :).
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12. At 6:03pm on 27 Apr 2009, mightysoprano wrote
"Webb is the ref who has consistently given Man Utd dodgy decisions in their favour"
Your having a laugh. Liverpool got more than a bit of help from the referee aginst Hull, a Mascherano dive for the freekick, a dodgy sending off after a foul by Skrtel and a goal with the help of a handball. And that's a fact!
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Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, Red Devil Yardie!!!! YOu can always rely on some United fan to try and re-imagine the facts before your and everyone else's very eyes that Gomes got more than a fingertip on the ball and it was a horrible decision and United were very very fortunate to get it. And I'm supposed to be a WUM!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
All credit to Giggs, 25 and still in the First team, that makes player of the year for me, He has started as Much as Tevez and Nani if not more.
However sounds like Liverpool supporters are falling on their swords especially when I read the bumf from mightysoprano : Webb for you info has already sent off 2 players this season.
You are being dishonest if on your first view you didn't at least think penalty. Your guys needed constant sending offs this season to beat teams, Man Utd included and you still can't win the league. Your manager knows only how to win Cup not leagues, and I suppose what is really galling for you is how once again you threw it all away. You should change the Anfield hymn from You will never walk alone to the Bee Gees, Don't throw it all away!
Now grow up and get over yourself. Webb has played more for Liverpool that for Man Utd. FACT!
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typo on the 25 should have been 42, Giggs after all is the answer to life!
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At Mighty Soprano
Some 'facts' for you:
1. Steve Bennett was the referee in the Wigan v Man Utd game last season, not Howard Webb
2. Howard Webb has sent off Nemanja Vidic and Cristiano Ronaldo this season
3.You're a paranoid idiot- but unfortunately many people are taking too much notice of hysterical idiots like you.
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Webbs decision aside, at least real footie fans can again reflect on the feckless Man U home support who go all quiet and bitter when their side is on the back end of a walloping...liverpool, villa (for a while), everton and spurs (again for a while).
No wonder Man U need a good bench; the crowd is bloody hopeless. Can't wait to see them getting even quieter as Fergie enters his swansong doddery "Mr Grace" period at Old Trafford
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Is there a single messageboard or blog left on the internet that hasn't been infested with Liverpool fans moaning about conspiracies or bribery or whatever.
Face it, United win the league evey year by playing attractive attacking football when they are at their best and still winning when they are cack.
Oh, and Robbo, I lol'd. Not as much as I will when Boro are relegated mind you but lol'ing at your blog is a big step for me, I'll even tell my therapist, he'll be impressed.
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I've had a crazy thought that they should rename this award "Player of the Season" and vote on it in June as at the moment it is player of the year and seems to be voted on just past the turn of the year so is not relevant to the seasonal nature of football. Having said that, then Giggs only starting 12 league games this season is kind of irrelevant as the window we are looking at is 1st Jan 08 to 31st Dec 08.
Still nice to see that professionals can respect all that Giggs has done in his career even if not many can emulate it, especially the behaviour and manners exemplified by the Welsh Wizard.
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Robbo,
the gelled tumbler tumbles, but the upright Welbeck is brought down and costs Man U. the FA Cup final berth. They lose a trophy, lose making history (quintuple???). In the end it all evens out!!
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I have to ask, do you Manchester United fans have specially designed replica shirts to accomadate the key in the back ?
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ah come off it, Mambo Hammer you will be dancing the Salsa now that tricky Zola is your boss, till next September when he resigns for Chelsea :-) I mean he wouldn't dare stay with a little club like the hammers would he?
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sorry to say this but in my opinion you are a disgrace to journalism ,you just show biasing on the highest level even if webb made a mistake from 25 yards cant you atleast talk about all other decisions made this week in the league in your blog. it looks like what happened in kc stadium skipped your mind.you are a great journalist that we all respect. just always balance your act by stating the obvious when you are on line then when you are with your mates at the pub you do otherwise
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This Robbo guy talks rubbish end of
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"Nevertheless, the chip in question will remain uneaten until the season is utterly over."
The way that's worded suggests that in just under a months time someone will be eating this now 4-week old crisp... Really?
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I think its a disgrace that Ryan Giggs has won the award. Its purely out of sentiment. Oh poor Ryan has been here so long lets give it to him. Awwwwww!
Please, hes started 12 games this season, if that had been any other player who had only started 12 games they would have overlooked him. Ok, granted, Giggs has been good in the few games he has played, but 12 decent games and a handful of appearances from the bench is no basis for winning player of the year award. Especially when players like Ronaldo, Vidic and Gerrard must be pretty cheesed off because they've played far more games and been better and more consistent than Giggs this season.
Sentiment. It should have no place in football.
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Luton town fan here: What makes me laugh about the penalty descision isnt the blatant wrongness of it (and we can all see that) but the fact that liverpool fans are up in arms about it.
Have they forgotten that Hull were playing well against them untill Mascherano fell over his own feet, the ref awarded a freekick wrongly which led directly to Liverpools opening goal.
All teams get descisions going for them and against them over the course of the season (Manchester United denide a stonewall penalty against everton the other week for example) and for fans of any team to complain about it is a bit childish really.
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spurs fan here and quite frankly, the game was an irrelevance to us as Harry clearly hates the Europa Cup/League/UEFA cup/whatever the trained chimps at UEFA are calling it now. i also dont care who wins the premier league in the slightest as spurs dont contest the league of 4. having said that, i went apoplectic at the decision. its embarassign how a ref can get somethign so wrong when no one needed tv replays but whats more disturbing is the hypocrisy and double standards shown by alex ferguson. didnt he and his little chum carlos queiroz scathe a damning attack on a a ref calling him "a robber" when a ref had the audacity to award a visiting team a pen? this sort of abuse is why howard webb then felt the need to cheat. seems ferguson is happy to take this dcecision though. anyone who says well utd scroed 5 in the end anyway didnt watch the game. they simply werent in it until they got given a goal.
having said all that, lads, that was one hell of an implosion!
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Everyone here is saying that the pen turned the game around for united, maybe it did,but why isn't anyone questioning palacios's challenge on ronlado.It was lucky he jumped out of it because it was a bone breaking tackle.It was a straight sending off,and it happened before any goal had been scored so if palacios had been shown a red then spurs wouldn't have scored at all.
So for me things just evened out in a way atleast by that pen (which by the
wasn't as awful a decision as everyone is making it out to be).
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Giggs is 35 that is pension age. look at what he has done this season and watch he is still brilliant. Slower but brilliant.
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#8
no way, man utd were coming back at spurs when webb gave that decision, and altho i admit it may have sped up the process (of man u winning), spurs were dropping back into their half for a while until then
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o, and props to giggsy. to say he is player of the season is laughable but any man with a career as good as giggsy's deserves some kind of perosnal acolade.
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No one's mentioned that Arsenal's first goal was blatantly offside and up until that point the Boro were holding them easily. In fact were it not for the fact that we were denied an obvious throw-in about fifteen minutes before they scored their second we might very well have won the game 2-1. It's a disgrace.
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30. At 7:23pm on 27 Apr 2009, Jack92TR wrote:
This Robbo guy talks rubbish end of
--------------------------------------
I don't really understand this blog sometimes.
I think that Robbo writes a great blog and is usually very funny, his blog is the one that I look out for every week and in my opinion is the best football writer on the bbc.But all that ever happens is that Robbo makes a little joke about a certain club and their fans go bonkers(Man U for example in this blog).Insults are hurled about from all directions and somehow Robbo is said to be nicer to some teams and harsher to others- which makes no sense as I have heard nearly every team in the Premiership made fun of.Some people should just lighten up and laugh a little, even if it is at your own club's expense.
Thank for another great blog Robbo and I look forward to your next one!
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well since you didnt really mention it in your blog robbo, please may we be exscused?
and over the course of a season, it all balances out... altho it will need to pretty quick for you guys...
congrats giggs as well, great player, and im proud to say whilst my brother wanted giggs to go and beckham to stay all those years ago, i think im justified by this model pro
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Great Blog Again Robbo.. This one is pure masterclass. Giggs should be in the running for the award, but winning it is another question. Mind you I am a big utd fan and a huge fan of giggsy. But my money was on vidic. Immense season from him. Instead of Ferdinand in the nominees, it should have been fat frank as well.
As for the penalty... Carrick changed the path of the ball first before Gomes had his fingertips to it. Not a penalty by the book but can't blame the referee for giving it.
And loads of utd haters on the boards slating webb. Remind the haters that Webb sent off vidic and ronaldo off this season. And we didn't get a much blatant penalty in the FA cup semis...Strange that no journalists picked on that......Bias from BBC again as it was on the most maligned MOTD
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they were making it out as though it was player of uniteds season and how giggs got it is just ridiculous. an award like that is for a player who has been good all season yet giggs has played only a fraction of the games but still gets it?
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robbo.these are the previous winners of the pfa player of the year award. they normally get it right. this year is the worst they got it without any shadow of a doubt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PFA_Players'_Player_of_the_Year
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http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9347/palacios.gif -Robbo Have a look.
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#39 LOL Robbos own comment referred to moderators....classic! Would love to know what you said....
Penalty might not have been a penalty but I've seen worse decisions given at Anfield for Liverpool, erm wonder what team has had the most penalties this year in the league?
But the award for Best Reasons we Got Beat 2009 go to:
SPURS.....players, managers and fans using the excuse that Utd were gifted a penalty meaning they were now only winning 2-1. then could not stop those bigger boys coming up the pitch and scoring 4 more goals. Boo hoo hoo. Not fair, people picking on little ickle Spurs is it?
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#40
Spot on. I think you understand this blog well enough.
Certain bog brains can't get their simple minds around the fact this is supposed to make you laugh above all else. I'm pretty sure that's the reason most people read Robbo's blog.
Funny how the twisted knickers each week usually belong to Liverpool or United fans, or quite often both. Persecution complexes or what.
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Another chelsea-bashing article by the BBC
nice one robbo
try and be a bit less man utd-goggled in your next blog
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Ha, that's the best ever, and Robbo all over. His comment has been "referred to the moderators"- in his own blog!! Political correctness run amok.
As for Giggsy, well maybe he was very good but not really blazingly brilliant this year, but he really does have to win the award before he retires, he's just pure class. My favorite moment was a free kick he took at Lille a couple of seasons ago- they should have run that Kipling poem "If" at the bottom of the screen as he coolly placed the ball in the net while bedlam surrounded him- it was just so Ryan Giggs. There are a lot of talented footballers these days, even some who might have the skills and speed he had when he was younger, but for footballing brains he still takes the cake for me.
As for Saturday's game- forget whinging about Howard Webb, it was really all about Rooney, who was just unbelievable. I really think only two players in the world, Rooney and Gerrard (and re the latter it hurts to say) have that ablity to take a game by the scruff and turn it around.
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I'm surprised there's no mention of a fellow Boro lad, John McDermott, in your blog, who picked up the PFA Merit Award for his services to football. A one-club man, just like Giggs, who never got the chance to play in the top division (he should have done as he was most certainly the best right back outside the Premiership in the mid to late-nineties). Well done Sir John, Grimsby Town legend. UTM
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Agree with most of what you said Robbo, bit of a meaningless award as it doesn't reflect reality, and after all who wants role models nowadays? The press just hate people like Becks, Giggsy, even Charlton (apart from the flap jokes of course, actually I think it used to give him an unfair advantage in the box 'cos if the wind caught it in the right direction it could completely unsight the keeper...deadly) but no, we want to hate people! Give us a roasting story any day!
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I love the comment from a liverpool fan about the referee "he has practically given the title to United"
Now I know its a long time since liverpool fans were close to winning the title, 19 years (Sounds so great, i will say it again) nineteen years, but come on!
If you want to see real dodgy penalties, go on youtube and pick any game at Anfield in the 80's where dalgish is attacking the Kop.
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Even though I'm an Arsenal fan, I must say that Giggs has been superb down the years except for that GOAL in the FA cup semi final replay in 1999 does it seem that LONG AGO now?
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"Well, I expect the upcoming controversial refereeing decision at Old Trafford this Wednesday"
Class, pure class. Are you running a sweepstake on how many minutes of added time they'll need to get their important goal? Or do you think the Porto lesson might sink in and they'll quit before Arsenal get too many?
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Personally it makes me proud that a British player has won this award especially, when you consider two of our top teams are virtually foriegn, I mean where would Arsenal and Liverpool be without them. Come on Ancelotti, get down to the Bridge and let's have an Italian team in the Prem!.....where have all the Germans gone? Just think back a few years and the Wehrmacht were undisputed masters of the beautiful game, Brazilians notwithstanding....I blame Angela Merkal, I mean how can any bunch of storm troopers keep their self respect...sorry not very PC that bit, probably get moderated
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Robbo, you seem to mention Carrick wanting a penalty but replays are hardly conclusive, esp when you watch it in slow mo, what about King in the Carling cup final where he applauded the referee getting the wrong decisions against Ronaldo (when King fouled him in the box) or what about our (none) penalty against Everton, why didn't they take up so many column inches? It's a joke, Liverpool got a free kick from a dive yesterday and they scored and Lucas handballed in the build up to Kuyts goal, if you took out the "bad" goals Liverpool should've drew 1-1 and we should've won 4-2 yet that isn't mentioned...
I want Boro to go up but I don't want you getting points against us, I can't see us getting past Arsenal but obviously I hope we do but i'd gladly give up the CL trophy if it meant Liverpool not winning the league.
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P.s. I love that your comment is being moderated! Ahh the BBC...
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First off not a united fan so don't judge but they were denied a clear pen in the fa cup semi, wouldn't have deserved to win but it was a penalty, palacios was lucky that for once ronaldo decided not to stand in the way of a tackle, and thirdly no it was not a pen but from his point of view (webbs that is) given in those circumstances i think 9/10 that any ref would give that. Normally you can tell by the way the ball changes direction (it did not) players reactions, hmm lets see one teams gonna say penalty other team will say no penalty and surprise they both did. Webb got two major incidents wrong in that game and both would have resulted in a different outcome, spurs were lucky to have 11 men and united were lucky to get a penalty end of
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#57 I agree - whats that all about!
Enjoyed the blog - I think that MFC can be saved by the also poor teams around them. NUFC were lucky to get a point tonight and the barcodes (best fans in the world) were walking out of the groud with 5mins and extra time to play!!
United got lucky with the decision at the weekend but it cuts both ways. Harry got lucky there last year when the 'gelled tumbler' was felled.
Keep in the good work Robbo.
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He deserves a knighthood and he shall get one.
SirRyanGiggs.com - Launched today! An online petition... Wouldn't it be great to see Sir Ryan Giggs on the team sheet next season!!!
Over 3000 signatures is the first few hours speak volumes... The world is speaking at a phenomenal rate... forward and promote SirRyanGiggs.com to all your friends and family...add it to your facebook status, twitter accounts, email to all your hotmail contacts etc... Lets make this news worthy!
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Not sure why I've been moderated, boys n girls. It's probably a Chelsea/ManU/Liverpool/whoever-else-I've-even-so-much-as-mentioned-with-anything-other-than-fawning-praise conspiracy. (I jest, people).
#45 - quite right, shocking horizontal star jump by Palacios. There's a Keanesque recklessness to the lad.
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I love all these "Fact" comments, tis football lads, no such thing as "fact", just opinion, Giggs got the award for his career, not this season...er...fact? nah..just opinion. Was never a pen, not in a million.. still just an opinion tho. And we (Liverpool) got a couple decent decision go our way on the weekend, so can't grumble too much, you know, except for them donkeys spurs throwing away a perfectly good 2-0 lead. It ain't over tho is it, Manyoo look capable of throwing this away for sure.
Great blog Robbo.
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Total respect for Giggsy, but I said when the nominations came out that they were wrong (the whole system is wrong regardless)
This was a belated award for a player everyone has respect for, but in terms of 'player of the year' it was pretty daft - my vote would've been on Vidic
Personally I think Mark Schwarzer should've been on there
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I had no idea boro were so low, if they get relegated it wont seem right...
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Hmmmmm
Will I refer that libelous insinuation about Keane being reckless?
Nah
Robbie Keane probably doesn't care that you are referring to him in that way!
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Robbo,
Have you got a ghost-writer in? "Looking forward to it"...This doesn't sound like you mate. Maybe the Bluebell has had a lock-in 'till the end of the season and you can't get out.
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Istanbul2005:
"Great blog Robbo however Ian Welby your post is near to being asked for moderation considering your view on Howard webb. He has actually given the title to may utd,"
So nothing to do with Liverpool drawing 7 games at home this season against teams they should have done better against? Tell you what, if your had have won 2 of those games - you'd be top and very probably champions at the end of the season.
Jeepers. Some Liverpool fans.
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52. At 8:57pm on 27 Apr 2009, apublicsectorpension wrote:
"I love the comment from a liverpool fan about the referee "he has practically given the title to United"
Now I know its a long time since liverpool fans were close to winning the title, 19 years (Sounds so great, i will say it again) nineteen years, but come on!
If you want to see real dodgy penalties, go on youtube and pick any game at Anfield in the 80's where dalgish is attacking the Kop."
Good to see what you spend your time doing, my friend. But it is true that at the end of the season we'll know that we could and should have won the title. And to a previous post-er, how long did it take for Dame Alex to win anything at Utd? Please enlighten me?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
maniacal ginger squid
--------------
Right, I've got one of my flatmates a new nickname!
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Thank you Robbo for your prophecies.
On your recent track record, See Arsenal in final of CL while United will win easily on 16th May.
What odds Boro not scoring again this season?
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Good blog, had to have a chuckle at Robbo's comment being moderated, even funnier when it's not the first time it's happened either.
While Ryan is a top player and professional, I must join others in suggesting he received the award out of sentiment rather than performances (although he has played well). Surely Vidic or (as much as this pains me to say it) Gerrard were more deserving.
Some people seem to forget that, being human, even referees make mistakes sometimes. When these mistakes occur in the bigger games they're magnified and blown completely out of proportion, sparking accusations of referees favouring some teams over others. Yes, they are paid a lot of money (I presume) and they do have extensive training, so they should be able to get the majority of decisions correct. And I believe they do this quite well, considering millions of eyes are watching them and millions of pounds rest on their decision.
One aspect that really must improve is the quality of offside decisions. Linesman really have one job to do in a game and that is indicate whether a player is offside or not; a referee should be able to decide which team should get a throw-in or a goal kick / corner fairly accurately by himself.
Note to everybody: Typing "fact" after a statement does not make it factual - fact.
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i reckon in 30 years of watching football, Giggs is the most over-rated player i've ever seen.
on his day he's good to watch, but the number of poor crosses, passes, shots is shabby at best.
definitely a boob by the PFA...whatever next.
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Yep the ref had a mare all right, at 0 - 0 Wilson Palacios should have got a straight red for that two footed lunge at Ronaldo
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Robbo moderated on his own site! And I thought I led a pretty wierd life!
"Crumbled like the last weetabix out of the pack." Robbo: King Of The Similies. Genius!!
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It really wasn't that bad a decision. Someone said "he was 25 yards away, that's bad refereeing"... Surely 25 yards really isn't that far? Anyway the distance isn't an issue, it is just the unfortunate fact (for Spurs anyway) that from where he was standing, there was at least one player, possibly two who may have been obscuring his vision. Also, from where he was it would be pretty hard to tell the ball has deviated - it only changed its course by about, i dunno, 30 degrees or so, it's not like it shot away at a right angle.
Simply put, in real time and from where he's standing it looks like the right decision. Carrick does get taken out too - he doesn't dive, he probably even thinks he has been fouled, and it's just unfortunate really.
That said, you're right, they were still winning and I think it sums Spurs up that they just gave up from then onwards. They haven't got enough players who are determined enough to keep going, who have a strong enough character to say "OK, bad decision, let's get on with it and still win". I didn't see United players' heads drop when Darren Bent got lucky after he completely missed his header and it just dropped to him (for the first goal) or Modric mis-hit his shot for the second. They got on with it and kept trying, and got the right result. It's called effort, determination, desire, drive... call it what you want, but it's what separates the good teams from the not so good. Why is it "lucky" teams like United, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool seem to get so many late goals?
Oh, and if one more pundit describes a penalty decision as "stonewall" I think I'm going to write to the F.A to ask them to ban the word. It means absolutely nothing, please say obvious or blatant, but not stone bleeding wall!!!
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http://www.answers.com/topic/stonewall
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funny how both England and Liverpool are a more potent attacking force when Gerrard's not playing, isn't it? ...
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Arshavin's 6-goal salvo could put things right back into the melting pot, don't you think
I know he is good but, scoring 6 goals from the stand will be a bit special as he is cup-tied for the Champions League.
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Clever Bolg Robbo. I assume you get paid based on the number of responses? Stirring up the Spurs penalty and Giggs award were a banker then. They've both been done to death elsewhere, with enormous response from the sad ABU brigades.
But seriously, can you research some appropriate medication to give to Liverpool fans, if and when Utd win the title! The quivering bitterness from them as they see the Red Devils equal there title count is getting beyond what we normally expect. Some of them really need your help!
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re # 40
I also agree that Robbo blog is "sometimes" quite funny and it is natural if he has a dig at any given club. problem is that more often than not, some teams or individuals get a lot more of a "mention" than others.
need proof? go through the past 10-20 blogs of Robbo and you would almost always find some mention of SAF or the so-called Gelled-tumbler or other members of United squad.It is as if "if you dont have anything else to say, just have a go at Ronny or Rooney or...."
I guess Liverpool fans might have similar experience too..
as for the Penalty: It wasnot clear-cut penalty but neither was it a blatant mistake. The ref. could have given the decision either way and in any case he would have received a lot of stick from the other team. so as for Mr. Webb, it was a lose-lose situation. there have been a lot of similar accidents in many matches all over the world where a penalty has been given or waved-away for exact same type of challenge so to call it anything other than a "debatable decision" is wide off the mark.
Finally as my second favorite team is Spurs (some of my familly members are life-time supporters) I feel for the Spurs and their fans, but to me it looked from the start of the 2nd half that Spurs were intending just to sit back and defend their 2-0 lead and frankly speaking this is a big mistake if you are playing United (or liverpool for that matter).just ask Villa fans.
They invited the United on-slaught and therefore cannot complain too much about what they got. the 1st goal would have arrived penalty or no penalty.
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#79. New to Robbo's blog I take it.
Its a league game on 16th of May. ;)
On Giggs getting the gong: Player of the year, NOT.
Player of the last 18 years? Most definitely.
I have a take on improving the standard of Refereeing in EPL.
The FAs around the world could buy and sell referees, just like players.
That way EPL will end up with not only some of the best players but Refs as well!
Any takers?
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#72 carefreecours
disagree with your comments about linesmen and offsides, even tho the standard could be higher. You try looking in 2 different directions at the moment a ball is played, lets say from just inside the attacking half to near the penalty area, its only a split second to see and judge. As a former club linesman in a much lower league, I was to proud to receive a league award at the end of the season, even tho I took c**p from my own teams defenders, but then, even they congratulated me.
#76 jellery, Agree entirely with your first para. Then maybe there is a time for some form of video replay,most sports do have it in some form cricket,RU, RL, NFL, NHL. Provided the time taken to review is minimal, say 1 min at most, the correct decision can be reached, you have only 2 or 3 chances to appeal, if you win you retain you chances to appeal, if you lose, you lose
C U in the P&G
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Re. Howard Webb's decision.
Just because a keeper touches the ball does it mean that if he takes a player out after that, that it's not a foul?
No.
Therefore, penalty.
End of.
Great decision.
(And I'm a Baggie not a Red before anyone asks!)
Great Escape Part II :)
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robbo i agree that giggs hasnt ben the standout performer this season, at least not the only one, but isnt the award for player of the YEAR, not season?
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This argument is stale now, but I want to put in my tuppenceworth anyway. I believe the penalty decision was the right one, as was the yellow card. Having watched the replays it looks like the 'keeper got a touch on the ball, but not enough to divert it to safety. Carrick was after it and in my mind there's no doubt in my mind he would have been first to it had the keeper's follow-through not taken him out.
The angle would have been tighter, but it was still a clear goalscoring opportunity which he was denied by being felled. I believe the ref made his decision on this basis and IMO he made the right one.
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PaniniBandit, that's exactly my point (should have read all the way down to the end of the thread before posting!).
Nice to see some proper fans of the game who aren't blinded by partisanship.
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It wasn't a penalty at all. He got the ball, and this is supposed to be a contact sport. But it wasn't the first time a referee made an incorrect decision, and it won't be the last either. Besides, even if the penalty wasn't given, Man Utd would still have won the game because Spurs were complete garbage in the 2nd half. So this whole penalty debate is meaningless really (and i'm a liverpool fan).
Every team in the EPL has their share of dodgy decisions go against them, but they also have their share go FOR them. These things happen. I'll freely admit that we've had quite a few go in our favour this season. But so have Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, everyone really. It's football. It's what happens. If we had all this super duper technology that meant incorrect decisions were impossible, what on earth would we talk about with the lads down the pub? There'd be no controversy in the game! It would become too clinical and boring.
And with regard to the destination of the title, i hate to say it but i think Man Utd will win it. The only really tough games they've got left are Man City and Arsenal. So we need those guys to do us a favour! But at the end of the day, if we'd have beaten the poorer teams at Anfield instead of drawn against them, we wouldn't have to rely on other teams at this stage of the season as we'd be miles ahead by now. So, while this season has been a definite success for us in the EPL (we're usually out of the title race by January!), we'll only have ourselves to blame if we don't win the league.
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22. At 6:40pm on 27 Apr 2009, Subterranean wrote:
At Mighty Soprano
Some 'facts' for you:
1. Steve Bennett was the referee in the Wigan v Man Utd game last season, not Howard Webb - ok, fair enough, not only is Webb biased towards Utd but so too is Bennett and the ref who gave Utd a pen when J LLloyd-Samuel tackled Ronaldo cleanly.. Just admit it - Utd get favoured because Gill is Chief Exec at the FA - FACT - would you upset your boss?
2. Howard Webb has sent off Nemanja Vidic and Cristiano Ronaldo this season - only because he had to - even biased refs have to sometimes appear to be partial otherwise it would be too obvious wouldn't it?
3.You're a paranoid idiot- but unfortunately many people are taking too much notice of hysterical idiots like you. - I think it's time you woke up - look what happened in Italy with Juve - don't kid yourself that our game is clean because it's not..
FACT - but for poor refereeing decisions Liverpool would be champs .
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Firsly Giggs, that man deserves every award he can get, true legend. Secondly I agree Webb was awfull. How Palacios was still on the pitch after his attempted assassination of Ronaldo I dont know. I wonder if Tottenham would still have scored two goals with only ten men. hmmm.
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Great blog as usual Robbo.
It's a pity it always seems to attract a significant amount of those without a sense of humour!
Explain?
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WHY IS EVERYONE MOANING ABOUT THE PENALTY IF GORMEZ GOT ANTHING ON THAT BALL IT WAS A SKIM OF THE END OF THE GLOVE THAT NO WAY CHANGED THE DIRECTION OFF THE BALL SO TOUGH PIT GET OVER ITS PIT AN NO TITLE HAS BEEN HANDED TO US WE ARE JUST BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE SO AGAIN TOUGH PIT!
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By the way Robbo I found a twiglet that was the image of Peter Crouch (erm.. but anything long and thin is anyway)
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'The other thing about the PFA Award is that the opinion of critics and journos has nowt to do with it.'
How awful!! You critics and journos really do have a vastly inflated sense of your own worth. I'd much rather listen to the opinions of those who play the game professionally than jealous, boozed-up hacks who, if the accuracy of their reports and diatribes are anything to go by, don't actually watch much of the matches and the game in general that they write about.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
"Ian Welby your post is near to being asked for moderation considering your view on Howard webb"
Why? For not thinking the man should get lynched? Pull the other one.
Yes, the decision was wrong. Yes, it changed the game. But he wasn't well positioned to make the call and the linesman is too far away and on the wrong side of the players too. I agree that with either replay technology or the second set of linesmen that's been suggested it would most likely have got overturned, but that's life. United might have ended up losing, they mighta scraped a draw or they might still have gone on to win the title.
Let's not start calling the moderators down because somebody had the temerity to disagree with you.
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As a neutral fan, I would say to the Pool Reds on here, get a grip, you're way over the top, you have played very well at times, but, just like CFC, inconsistent with poor draws against lower teams, who had discovered how to keep you at bay.
As for MU fans, dont gloat to much if you win, even your wins at times have been a struggle, and its only recently that CR and DB decided to take part fully in a game, compare that to the non stop of running of Rooney and Tevez
Remember football is a great game whether you are a neutral or fanatical, EPL or CH, C1, or C2.
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79. At 04:58am on 28 Apr 2009, lorus59 wrote:
Arshavin's 6-goal salvo could put things right back into the melting pot, don't you think
I know he is good but, scoring 6 goals from the stand will be a bit special as he is cup-tied for the Champions League.
_________________________________________________________________________
This I know. I was hoping the Russian rapier would be bagging this half-dozen in the League game in mid May not the Chumps League tomorrow.
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Can think of dozens of players more worthy than Giggs to take the player of the year award (can think of several from his club !!!). Put him in a Hall of Fame? Yes. Give him the Gary Speed Award for Longevity? Yes. Player of the Year? Never.
As for Webb. That's the Pedersen penalty against United he never gave, the Sunderland/Newcastle one he got wrong and now this one, the worst of the lot. OK, so he was a fair distance away = all the more reason not to give it. Just how bad a player does he think Michael Carrick is? Look at where the ball goes as he tries to take it round the keeper, Howard? Of course the keeper got a major touch on the ball. Terrible decision.
Whether Spurs would have spinelessly capitulated anyway is another matter.
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As a United fan, I'm quite happy for Robbo to have a dig. It was a dodgy penalty and I have no doubt that in our remaining 7 or 8 highly scrutinised high pressure games, there will be further bad decisions. And if thats going to happen, I'd rather they all went in our favour!
Liverpool got away with it against Hull, Everton benefitted last weekend. I suppose the key is that when the ref does throw you a lifeline, you need to take advantage.
So here's to hoping that in a few weeks time, the talk is of United dodgy 2nd goal in their title clinching victory over Hull or Arsenal. Beacuase I know if liverpool win it on a Anfield penalty it will not bother them in the slightest.
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94. At 09:18am on 28 Apr 2009, Rupert P Matley wrote:
'The other thing about the PFA Award is that the opinion of critics and journos has nowt to do with it.'
How awful!! You critics and journos really do have a vastly inflated sense of your own worth. I'd much rather listen to the opinions of those who play the game professionally than jealous, boozed-up hacks who, if the accuracy of their reports and diatribes are anything to go by, don't actually watch much of the matches and the game in general that they write about.
________________________________________________________________________
Ermmm. 1) That was the point of the comment, Rupert! That the players get to vote for who they like and it's nowt to do with me. And that's a good thing.
2) I'd rather listen to the opinions of some boozed-up hacks than the utter lack of opinion of some former players who are too close to the current bunch to actually really say what's what.
3) That's the first time any one's ever written the phrase 'How awful!!!!' on this blog. Are you one of the famous five, Rupert?
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Well said #100. I do wish that Man U fans would stop revising history. It was a dodgy pen. Gomes got to the ball way before he contacted Carrick. A fair tackle.
And I wish Liverpool fans would stop, ermm, revising history. United scored 4 times after that. If you need a scapegoat, blame the scatty Spurs defence. Wazza had more time and space than the flippin' cosmos out there.
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Robbo - the fact that United scored a further 4 doesn't wash over the fact that an appaling refereeing decision gave them a lifeline into a match they were losing and didn't look like getting back into.
They may well have done, of course. Spurs do have a shocking record at OT after all.
but it clearly changed the match
Also - fascinating the way the officials were able to spot the ball going over the Spurs line by a matter of centimetres (correctly, i thought)and yet when Spurs stuck it over the United line by 2 yards a few season back no-one saw it, don't you think?
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"Nevertheless, the chip in question will remain uneaten until the season is utterly over."
Is that the chip you have on your shoulder Robbo, or a new one?
For a man who's biased towards Man United, Webb doesn't half send off a lot of our players. If that's his support I'd rather he not bother! As has been pointed out elsewhere, it's easy to comment on what a bad decision it was when you've seen it hundreds of times in slow motion, from several different angles. I was surrounded by Spurs fans when Carrick went into the box, and every single one of them was cursing Gomes for diving in. It's only when they saw the third replay that they all changed their tune.
People going on at referees like this just puts more pressure on them, and increases the likelihood of mistakes in the future. The season is not decided on one fixture, it's decided over the course of a season. And over the course of this season, United have been the best side in England. Take the bitter glasses off for a second, and you'll see that.
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I believe that most of the comments on the Ryan Giggs award are missing a vital point, the PFA vote on a calendar year, February to February, so the award is really incorrectly titled "player of the season". I have no real opinion on who won it, but I do think that Ryan is a true professional and baybe does deserve an award or two. On another issue, I always enjoy Robbo's blogs, I don't take what he say's as factual, surely it's not meant to be, but it is amusing and entertains me. Reading the responses and the endless bitterness between rival supporters is quite laughable its all opinion and no one will win an augument in this way.
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Yet more proof of how poor and inconsistent Howard Webb is. Luckily we got the benefit of his poor decision on saturday, but many times we have been on the wrong end of a Webb decision.
However, all these Liverpool (not Tottenham note) fans saying Utd were never in the game until then, I ask you to watch the game sober! at the start of the second half we were battering spurs and a goal was only a matter of time. Yes it came from a dodgy penalty, but penalty or not we would have won the game!
And to Mighty Soprano who wrote "FACT - but for poor refereeing decisions Liverpool would be champs . "...I believe were it not for dodgy refereeing decisions Liverpool would be sixth.
one further point as well on the inconcistency of Howard Webb, how come Liverpool got 6 minutes of added on time, yet for Utd V Spurs a second half with 4 seperate subs, 5 goals and a 2 minute injury to Bent only produced 3 minutes???
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104.
United haven't won the title yet.
And as for the penalty, I and I bet countless thousands of others called it a good bit of keeping from the live footage. Look at where the ball went. That was not a tough decision to give. Webb cocked it up.
Webb has sent off 2 United players this season.
One was Vidic for two bookables, when he should have red carded him for the first. The second yellow was possibly a red card as well as he clattered Alonso and was nowhere near the ball. He then had to be reminded by Giggs among others to actually produce the red card !!!!
The other was Ronaldo. Booked for hacking down SWP. He sarcastically applauded Webb's decision, for which he should have been shown a second yellow and sent off right there. He wasn't. Ronaldo then got himself booked a second time and sent off for the most blatant handball you'll ever see.
Hardly a ref desperate to send off Utd players.
Next?
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#88 "and this is supposed to be a contact sport"
NO IT ISN'T! Rugby is a contact sport, American football is a contact sport.....football is not supposed to be a contact sport, if it was then no fouls would ever get given and it would be a free for all.
Think it through.
I like the argument that regardless of whether Gomez touched the ball it was still a foul, players who go through someone to get the ball normally have a foul given against them regardless of if the tip of a toe on the ball.
That being said, and as a United fan, i'm sticking with "no penalty" quite why everyone insists on having a massive argument as if it's the only dodgy decision this season is beyond me. Particularly when United were denied a blatent pen at Wembley, and if my memory serves, the Gelled Tumbler has been BOOKED twice where penalties for diving, when in fact, penalties should have been given.
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105. At 10:04am on 28 Apr 2009, Bazzas4 wrote:
I believe that most of the comments on the Ryan Giggs award are missing a vital point, the PFA vote on a calendar year, February to February
I dunno where you buy your calendars !!!
regardless of whether it's Jan-Dec, Feb-Feb, Aug-May
Giggs has not been the player of the year/season. It's a sentimental nod from his fellow pros and good luck to him. Clearly diminishes the worth of the honour though. It's supposed to be about the best player.
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I didn't say he was desperate to send off United players. He's not desperate to send off any players. He's a guy doing his job to the best of his ability, who happened to make a mistake. You lot are the paranoid idiots screaming conspiracy, not me. We could swap dodgy decisions all day. There was one in the FA Cup semi-final, where we should have had a penalty. We didn't, fair enough. These things happen. Personally I would have loved United to win the Cup, but this year it wasn't to be.
And no, United haven't won the title yet. I don't recall saying that they had. But they are three points clear in the table, having played a game less, and that's a position they deserve to have based on the performances all season, and not just the last two weeks. Hopefully we'll win the league by more than three points, and put an end to this "one game wins the title" nonsense. Liverpool have got themselves to blame for not being top of the league - they've drawn against too many inferior teams. That's a fact, and any moaning about United decisions is either partisan paranoia, or a plain misunderstanding of the nature of the game.
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108 - football is a contact sport I'm afraid. You can go shoulder to shoulder with someone, you just can't hack them down. Rugby and American football are also contact sports but if you punched someone you would be in trouble. They are just different sports with different rules.
TommyOnions - if Liverpool ever get to Wembley again, maybe you could whistle up Barnes and Grobelaar a release a single titled 'the Anfield Rant'. Chances are you've got a long summer of moaning ahead of you sunshine...
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89. At 08:44am on 28 Apr 2009, mightysoprano wrote:
FACT - but for poor refereeing decisions Liverpool would be champs .
------------------------------
Actually NO! Not a fact, the fact is but for poor defence and poor striking and poor transfers in summer and January, Liverpool would be champs. They are not yet! Might not ever be as Benny Tez is going to have to break up his strongest team.
But for poor referring decisions Man Utd would be in the FA cup. Next year they will win everything if they can hold onto Tevez.
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I have sympathy for the ref - yes he got the decision wrong but it was by no means as obvious and clear cut as people like to think (after 15 slow motion replays).
As for criticising Carrick for appealing, are you honestly suggesting that Carrick would have noticed whether or not Gomes managed to get a fingertip to the ball? Carrick did not dive - he was clobbered by Gomes. Do you really think he would be aware of the slightest touch from the keeper whilst he went A over T? When players are brought down in the box they appeal, and rightly so. It is for the ref to decide whether or not it was a foul.
And for the love of God, can so-called journalists PLEASE comment on that woeful 'tackle' from Palacios! I can scarcely remember a straight red card more richly deserved. You criticise Carrick for being so nasty as to appeal for being brought down but no criticism for attempted assault?????? If that man escapes a ban there is no justice in the beautiful game. And yes, it was 0-0 when Spurs should have been down to ten men - another fact that all 'journalists' have chosen to ignore.
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The part about the blog I really agreed with was the bit about French and Saunders. I heard them thanking their agent in the BAFTA speech and - really - that's who should have won the gong. You might argue that Saunders can write, if you liked Absolutely Fabulous, but Dawn French is an utter talent-free zone. Look at me I'm fat and funny and I'm your best friend !!! Awful.
As to the rest, Webb should never have given that penalty. Man U are a debt-fuelled monster of a club who need no help from referees; they've had enough from city traders, funding raids on Spurs for our best players. I am in the unusual position of wanting Arsenal to win 5-0 this week, which might trigger a delicious fiscal implosion.
And Bendter was impeding the goalie, never mind off-side! Not such an easy spot as the Webb travesty, but galling to say the least.
(Alliadiere - ??? - should have scored though.)
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110. At 10:17am on 28 Apr 2009, reasoneddebate wrote:
I didn't say he was desperate to send off United players. He's not desperate to send off any players.
No, you said
"For a man who's biased towards Man United, Webb doesn't half send off a lot of our players"
whereas in fact he's sent off 2 of your players and showed himself to be reluctant to dismiss either. No wonder you're not screaming conspiracy !!! Though i haven't heard anyone else screaming it either.
and as for
"And no, United haven't won the title yet. I don't recall saying that they had"
i would say this is a little chicken counting, don't you think?
"And over the course of this season, United have been the best side in England."
You may well be proven right, of course but it's not done and dusted yet.
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anyone got a link where I can that peno again please?
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The FA couldnt organise a prayer in a mosque. If they were in charge of horse racing they would declare the winner half way through the race.
Why cant they organise for the PFA player of the year to take place during the last 2 weeks of the season?? If an election can be decided in several hours whats the problem with the ditherrers at the FA?
To give Giggs the vote because he played well for a short while and scored a cracker was haphazard to say the least and fellow pro`s voted based on his career not his season. The award is for the season not a lifetime.
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"whereas in fact he's sent off 2 of your players and showed himself to be reluctant to dismiss either. No wonder you're not screaming conspiracy !!!"
If he's so biased towards us, why not send off Palacios?
""And no, United haven't won the title yet. I don't recall saying that they had"
i would say this is a little chicken counting, don't you think?"
In what way is it counting my chickens to say that we haven't won the League yet? We haven't. I firmly believe that we will, but that's called optimism, not chicken counting.
My point is one of an absolute middle ground. Referees make mistakes. It will happen. Webb may make more or fewer than most (I wouldn't like to say, not really dwelling on incorrect decisions as much as you), but to say that he favours one team is ridiculous. Good and bad decisions are made for and against every single team in the league. Difference is, people only remember the bad ones that go for United. It's called the confirmation bias, look it up.
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sweet jesus
saying "And over the course of this season, United have been the best side in England" is chicken counting
the season isn't over,
is it?
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and seeing as you keep whining on about it - i haven't said Webb was bias towards Man Utd once
that's called paranoia
go look it up
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"Ok, granted, Giggs has been good in the few games he has played, but 12 decent games and a handful of appearances from the bench is no basis for winning player of the year award."
And strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
But a legend is a legend.
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Don't the PFA awards concentrate on the whole year, rather than the season? I think that's how it works. Giggs had a pretty decent end to last season, scoring the goal that settled the league (at Wigan) and then the winning penalty in the Champions League final.
And another thing:
"It was the worst decision since 'we wuz Rob-bed' Styles penalised JLloyd Samuel for having the audacity to challenge El Tumblero da Gello in the box in September"
Erm... are you trying to rewrite history? You're always moaning about bad decision and now you're trying to tell us that there have been no refereeing mistakes since September! And naturally, not that you're resorting to clichés, but the only ones to get the bad decision are United...
I know that by acknowledging the fact that United get bad decisions too would offend a large percentage of your fan-base but what about the week before, at the FA Cup semi-final, when United were denied a penalty by a referee who obviously reads the papers too much?
Also, the decision in the United v Bolton match was a joke but what about United's next home match v West Brom? In a goalless first half Rooney had a goal disallowed for breathing on a defender... you probably don't remember it since the press (and blogs) didn't make a big song and dance about it (then again, United did go on to win 4-0). United get bad decision too, it's just they tend not to get reported or blogged to death.
Funny blog but sometimes you read like you're on 'Journalist X Factor' ("please like me, please like me, here's another Ronaldo diving joke! vote for me!").
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No the season isn't over yet, but to amend: over the course of the season thus far, United have been the better team. Apologies if my original omission of those two words caused you such confusion, but I thought my point was self-evident, even in the face of extreme pedantry.
And my original post was aimed at those who believe there is some kind of conspiracy. As you replied to it, I would assume that you in some way objected to my assertion that refereeing in this country is a remarkably bias-free affair, particularly when you look at some of the corruption in Eastern Europe, South America, and even Portugal. If we agree on that, then there is nothing more to talk about.
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perhaps the fact i never mentioned the word 'bias' might have given you clue
you certainly need one !
;o)
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Key for me as a United fan is the fact we played something like we expect from a United team for 45 mins which will give us the confidence to keep playing like that going ahead. We aint played anything like that since Fulham in the Cup and that was a long time ago. Maybe we won't need Macheba on the bench anymore.
All this talk from Mr Wenger going into the semi, well we can't off picked a better time to score 5 goals in 45 mins. The whining, particularly from the scousers is becoming very boring. Last week we were being laughed at for loosing a game on a ref's decision, now everyone's having a pop because we got one debatable decision.
Here's a question - would Carrick have got to the ball if Gomes hadn't brought him down. In my mind yes he would and you do that anywhere on the field it's a foul. Considering Livepool should never had had that free kick for their first goal to it lends no credibility to all the souse moaning. Not like it's the first time to. If we'd have had the decisions livepool have had this year we'd have won the prem by now!
Anway - Giggsy's PFA - deserved? We'll ummm? No one really stands out do they? It's usually the outstanding player from the team that wins the prem hence Ronaldo last two years. How Ronaldo can make it this year I don't know? Love the bloke but he's got nowhere near the heights of the last two years. That is probably. So that's the duff decision for me. The duffer is if we do win the league you'd have to largely blame Wayne Rooney and where is he in the voting? Then you'd either have to give it to Vidic, Van Der Sar or Giggs. These awards generally go to an attacking players so yes i think the players just about got it right in a roundabout way. Two of the best players ever in premieship history - Giggs and Scholes so were half way there now.
Final two comments - I don't care what anyone says if we win the premiership it will be a magical achievement for us for many reasons, the scousers can vent their fury but they know they'll get it back tenfold so my advice to them is quit the jabber.
Lastly our kids look pretty good don't they? I hope Fergie will give them the chance and not sign a big name - they just need experience now like the class of 94 were allowed, there's also a Brazilian kid called Possebon who's only played once who looks the real deal. Future bright - it's Red!
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I think the penalty decision is a bit of a red herring. These things happen, refs are human, not perfect, and all of us with the benefit of a good angle of vision on the TV and countless repeats to chew over need to get a perspective on that.
What I'm really wondering is what was said in the Spurs dressing room at half time. I'm guessing that Harry didn't go over the fact that we caught United with two goals relatively against the run of play, even though United didn't seem to be playing well. I'm guessing he paid no heed to the particular peculiarities of this fixture where fate decides that where Spurs lead, they must at least be pegged back, if not bettered by United by fair means or foul (I'm talking last minute goals, good goals ruled out and 5 goal second half performances from the brink of 2 or 3 goal deficits). Was there even any minor discussion on whether a 2 goal lead might be a good one to defend, with a few more men behind the ball...hmmmm
Which brings me to comment #114 - bit unfair on the lass French, Kentspur. I for one would have been happy to see her in white defending the goal at Old Trafford...couldn't have done much worse.
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I was going to comment on the penalty - since the anti-United crowd are all baying and flapping their feathers in glee but apparently not noticed that Rafa has nipped in and Scouse-tinted them - but it seems vertigo_timbo has beaten me to the punch.
I feel the major point is this: a foul in the context of a penalty is a defending player gaining an unfair advantage over an attacking player. Did Gomes gain an unfair advantage? With our wonderous 20-20 hindsight, we should be able to see this fairly clearly: yes, he did.
My own best position was always goalkeeper, and had I been in goal, I would've picked myself up off the turf with all the nervousness of a devout Catholic hearing the voice of his priest behind him in the hotel room of a prostitute.
The fact is, if Carrick somehow magically leaps over the hands dragging him down, the slight, tiny touch Gomes got on the ball is irrelevant. Carrick almost certainly goes on and scores, insofar as we can guess at what didn't happen. Under the rules of the game, a goalscoring oppurtunity has been denied.
Funny, but that's pretty much the definition of the criteria for a penalty these days.
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"saying 'And over the course of this season, United have been the best side in England' is chicken counting
"the season isn't over,
"is it?"
Excuse me, would you like a finer comb with which to split hairs? "Over the course of this season" is not, I'm afraid, "Over this entire season which by the way is over even though it's not."
*hands you the award for most silly unmoderated post on this blog*
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Actually you stated that Webb was "reluctant" to send off Vidic and Ronaldo. Reluctance being defined as an unwillingness to do something. I would argue that he is not reluctant or eager to send any player off. He simply does so if he believes such an action is warranted.
Frankly, I tire of this. I usually don't respond to WUMs, and I now remember why. Despite your resorting to immature jibes, I hope you enjoy the rest of your season, whoever you may support. And I hope your team finish it by only playing in games where every decision is made correctly. And next time your team get a dodgy decision for them, bear this conversation in mind.
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I would have thought the referee coming out after the match and admitting he got the penalty decision wrong would help some of you...
guess not
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I am not a ManUtd fan, but I think that fans of teams like Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal should take a good long look at their teams as the only thing that has influenced the title race is the fact that their teams have drawn too many games!
ManUtd have lost 4 games up unto now (during recent years that would have lost them the title).
Liverpool have only lost 2 games but have drawn too many (11? maybe)
If Liverpool had converted those draws against the likes of Stoke (twice?) then all this talk of Referees making a difference would not exist!!!
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and also ManUtd record at home is by far the best, the old adage of not losing at home, rings true
Man Utd W15 D1 L1
Liverpool W10 D7 L0
Chelsea W9 D6 L2
Arsenal W10 D5 L2
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re 126 Watchthatman
I have harboured a profound, possibly irrational loathing of 'cuddly Dawn' for decades and was never likely to get the chance to actually make a comment on it as I restrict myself to football and boxing chat. Robbo's mention was an opportunity too good to miss.
If only he'd say something about Alan Carr......
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ok, i meant that the old adage of "Winning at home"
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didgispoonerta - its no big surprise that United have lost more games beacuse invariably they play a far more open way than Liverpool do. Liverpool employ 2 "holding" midfielders nearly every game and only one out and out striker.
Liverpool may well have converted some of those draws into wins but Rafas cautious nature came into play. Chasing 3 points might have meant throwing away one.
As for the comments on the penalty? Webb made a mistake, simple as that. Okay we can all see that he shouldnt have given a penalty from our armchairs/slomo/multiple angles/replays but Webb had one shot. He isnt the first and wont be the last to get a pen wrong.
Did it hand United the title? That kind ofquestion isnt deserving of an answer.
Were United out of the game? At halftime they were but if you actually watch the game you'll see that United were swarming all over Spurs as soon as the 2nd half started. It was only a matter of time before they scored, only a matter of time before Spurs collapsed like a house of cards.
I also notice there is a distinct lack of comment in relation to Palacios attempted career ender on Ronaldo.
Contact or no contact the player should have been red carded. This was when the score was at 0-0. But hey that wouldnt suit the anti-United arguments would it?
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Re 131. digispoonerta
Fair point, although all of this hysteria because Man Utd had a decision go their way is also a red herring.
Liverpool have been awarded more penalties than anyone else this season (by a distance) and have had more players sent off against them than anyone else this season (by a distance). I thought some of the decisions on their match against Hull at the weekend were very favourable too. So from a neutral perspective I don't think that Utd being top of the league is due to beneficial refereeing (although reading this blog you'd think that was the case).
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I can't believe some Utd fans are trying to justify the penalty decision. Come on, just hold your hands up and admit you got a very lucky decision. Its nothing to be ashamed off. It happens to everyone, it was just a shocking decision. Gomes took the ball then the player, simple. All this 50/50, debatable, no it was never a penalty. and for those saying, the ref was too far away, or there were people blocking his view, simple matter is if he isn't sure, he isn't suppose to give the penalty. Anyways, ranting on there, my point was that you got a lucky decision, but who cares, did it change the outcome of the game, maybe, did it change the outcome of the season, i highly doubt it. Liverpool have had there fair share of lucky decisions too.
Also to point out the muppets moaning that Robbo talks about Utd and Liverpool etc more than any other teams... well surely that is because they are the most popular teams, with the most supporters, and with the most media coverage. If he constantly talked about Boro and the Geordies all you Big 4 supporters would be moaning that your not getting enough coverage. as i said MUPPETS!!
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On the Palacios challenge - which no one can condone - can anyone recall a player being sent off for an attempted tackle that completely missed everything - ball, player, row Z?
Man U fans citing that as a refereeing 'mistake' are reaching more ineffectually than our defensive midfielder...
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Why Robbo are you commending Redknapp for his dignified post-match interview?
"It (the penalty) turned the game in their favour without a doubt. At that stage I couldn't see us getting beat. It was a gift which wasn't deserved. It was a terrible decision. Howard (Webb) is supposed to be our best ref, but if he's the best I'd hate to see the worst."
If Ferguson, Wenger or Benitez has said that you'd accuse them of being whingers.
Also, there's an argument that while the penalty undoubtedly helped United, it didn't CHANGE the game. Spurs were still winning 2-1 and still had a lead to defend. The shape of the game didn't change. Yet Man United cut through them FOUR more times. To blame those four goals on 'feeling sorry for ourselves' is a bit lame.
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@ccfcjayjay:
Justify the decision? Really?
So if your team - whoever that may be - gets a penalty from a goalscoring oppurtunity denied by foul play, will you call it "lucky"?
Just askin'.
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Come come, socrates
we've all seen enough football to know that goals (or ref's decisions) change matches. They lift crowds, players, give confidence, belief, make others nervy. The longer United went without scoring the more frustration would have set in amongst players/supporters.
After they scored it, fair play, they annihilated Spurs but they needed a catalyst and Webb gave it to them. Phelan & Rooney both said how crucial that first goal was post match.
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Some go your way, others don't. The referees don't have a chance; they are scrutinised week in week out by people with an endless amount of time and replays at their disposal. They are bound to be errors, as the Spurs game and FA cup semi-final prooves- we all make mistakes. A lot of time is wasted debating "what ifs" but, at the end of the day, the records will show a 5-2 home win and that Everton will contest the FA cup final in May- you win some you lose some. There's no point complaining endlessly, you just have to believe that over the course of the season they will even themselves out.
Let's give the poor Referee a break- could you do it?
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That penalty decision... well it looked a penalty in real time. If it had been an outfield player sliding in and nicking the ball in much the same way as Gomes managed, then chance are that a penalty would have been given anyway.
Attitudes change in football and probably more years ago than I care to remember, forwards would have jumped over a goalkeeper trying to save at their feet for fear of injuring them. It used to be called sportsmanship. Nowadays, its all about winning dodgy penalties.
Any other team but Man U would not have provoked such a response, and I doubt if it was a title awarding decision; Liverpool can cock up their own chances without any outside help!
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ok, i said at the time that it wasn't a penalty, fair enough these things do happen, but to say that it didn't affect the game is actually not looking at things objectively (by the way i'm not a Spurs fan either).
As a team, if you get a decision like that given against you then your mind set is changed as you feel angry and annoyed that it happened, so for 5-10 mins you usually are not objective and calm. In those 5-10 minutes ManUtd i think scored another 2 goals so yes that decision did change that period, i think that ManU would have won it 3-2 but i don't think that they would have run away with it like they did in the end.
Your mindset shouldn't be change like that but by human nature it does, just like going a goal down with a few minutes left of a cup final changes your mindset and everything goes out the windows to get the equaliser!!!
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what a surprise to see this blog jump on the same wagon, humming the same moronic tune. It would be nice once in a while to see a pundit or commentator not just bow to the perceived wisdom of whoever gets there first.
That Gomes got the smallest of touches on the ball (inconclusive from the replays i've seen), after Carrick touched the ball past him, doesn't really prevent it from being a foul and a penalty, just as a studs up challenge that takes man and a bit of ball doesn't stop it being a foul anywhere else on the pitch. Unless its against Ronaldo of course.
It was certainly not the disgusting, appalling decision scouse fans and ABUs have hammed it up to be. Certainly in the light of their own numerous dodgy penalties and decisions going their way for the entire season. The indignation on 606 and here was and is always sweet to hear and read. But it is getting quite tedious.
Enjoy another potless season, bitter kopites
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Eat your hats all you haters. Fact remains, Ryan Giggs is he player you all wish you had!
Congratulations ( soon to be ) Sir Giggs, you're phenomenal
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Why not have a Premiership Hall of Fame, like many American Sports have?
Giggs could be inducted into that and we could have a Gerrard, Ireland or Vidic as the Player of the year like they ought to be. Paying tribute to someone's career-long efforts is considerably different to who has been the best player in the Prem this season and so this award undermines the value of the PFA Player of the year trophy.
Also, Carrick appealed because he fell over in the box at Old Trafford in a Man U shirt. They are well aware that debatable decions at Old Trafford will go their way 95% of the time. It has proven that Howard Webb is as easily influenced as the rest of the so-called "lesser" referees.
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Man u is a victim of media hype on wrong refree descisions as obviously refs now hesistate to give them a well deserved fouls in recent games. Referee errors are part of the excitement of the game and every club has benefited from it more than once.
If this current campaign against United continues, it means each time United is on the pitch, its 11 against 14 with the match officials.
Giggs derserved that award, no doubts about that.
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141. TommyOnion
I don't argue with that, but like Redknapp you're over-simplifying matters somewhat.
After the penalty Spurs still had a lead to defend but they couldn't do so (they were undone by a brilliant one-touch passing move). Even then they were still on level terms and a point would represent a fantastic result for them, but they were undone by another excellent goal. United went on to score a further two goals. Five in total, four after the poor penalty decision.
It's very easy to come up with an argument saying that but for the penalty Spurs would have won 2-0 but it doesn't take in to account United's brilliant second half performance. Even without the penalty, who is to say they wouldn't go on to get three points? After all, they blew Spurs away in that fifteen minute period (in which Spurs were still very much in the game).
It's very easy to manufacture arguments based on refereeing. For example, Liverpool at the weekend... The first half was goalless and Liverpool looked woeful, then Mascherano tripped over himself on the stroke of half-time and Liverpool scored from the free-kick. It was a terrible decision (but I suppose decisions never look quite so terrible when they occur outside the box do they?). Then yet another red-card went in Liverpool's favour (no arguments btw, it's just what is it about Liverpool and red cards?) and then there was a hand-ball from Lucas in the build up to their second goal. So really, using the over-simplistic logic you like to apply when it's your rivals, it should have finished 1-1.
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As i stated yesterday, the period voted for is February to February? And in that period Ryan Giggs has picked up five winners medals. CL, PL, CS, WCC and CC, and has had huge amount to do with United winning those trophies in that period. I think that is reason enough to give him the award.
If it was player of the season and voted for after all the trophies are handed out then you'd have to say it would be between Gerrard and Vidic.
If it was all done on sympathy then John Terry would've gotten it for the CL heartbreak.
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www.futurefootballcoaches.com
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Robbo you make me laugh mate, you really are a WUM. I read several Devils admit it was a dubious peno before you still say "I do wish that Man U fans would stop revising history."
I was up the opposite end of the pitch and it was deffo a pen! ;o)
In all seriousness, who cares?! We shoulda had one last week in the FA Cup, and where was the uproar from good ol'Droopy...I mean 'Arry then? Still, it either was or wasn't given and thats that, we have to take these things and move on.
On the Giggs note I'd like to remind you that it is not player of the season! It is player of the year!
Hmm, lets see what Giggs had done in that time....
Vice captained his team to a glorious double and his 10th title with some stunning performances in the league and various cups.
Scored the goal that won the league!
Scored the winning penalty in Moscow!
Was crowned World Champion.
Scored in every Premier league since inception.
Converted himself from world class (but aged) winger into world class CM.
Was a credit to himself and football in general in stark contrast to the Baby Bentley Brigade.
He doesn't deserve it does he?! Idiots!!!
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is anyone else just reading ALL these comments and just laughing. I have been, just enjoy the blog for what it is.
Robbo - i like your blog, it makes me smile. keep up the good work
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I'm sorry but you cannot say a guy who's played a handful of games between Feb to Feb is deserving of the award. Anyone who's played maybe half the games at most would have to have been World footballer of the year standard to even be considered for the PFA player of the season award. Yes Giggs has deserved recognition for his career, but this is not the right award to honour him with.
Maybe we FIFA should award the 2008/2009 Golden boot award to Michael Owen, not because he's scored the most goals this season, but simply because he's scored a lot of goals in his career....
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I really dont think Liverpool will win all their last four games of the season!
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Giggs is a legend, but there is no way he has been player of the season, he shouldn't even have been in the running. Maybe it's about time they gave a 'lifetime achievement award', so that a player who has played less than a third of a season can get some credit without making a mockery of the other awards.
...A very poor penalty decision was actually the most minor bit of incompetence that Mr. Webb showed during the match, his failure to book (or possibly send off) Ronaldo for hacking a player from behind, and not booking Rafael or Evra for dragging back Lennon and Modric every time they were beaten for pace is what should be looked into, as these are incidents that every ref, player, manager and fan know are automatic cards, especially as he had unobstructed views of these fouls.
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8. At 5:51pm on 27 Apr 2009, Istanbul2005_4eva wrote:
Great blog Robbo however Ian Welby your post is near to being asked for moderation considering your view on Howard webb. He has actually given the title to may utd,
Don't be silly. What has given us the title is us being better than you over the games we've played so far. 3 points better in fact. Nice to see you're fighting to the end though!
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Robbo - some genuinely funny nuggets scattered through your blog, as usual. It amazes me how so many responding to you just don't get this, preferring to sound off instead (without a scintilla of humour), thinking that you have some sort of genuine vendetta against everything that is not Boro or Robbo related! Is mickey-taking a dying art? I blame the parents.
I remember your guest appearances on weekend radio doing this very thing - giving 'colourful' opinions on all matters sporting. Very funny then too. Keep up the good work.
From a 'wobbly' Sunderland fan.
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Im a Man Utd fan, and i agree it shouldnt have been a penalty on saturday, but having said that, Spurs were still 2-1 up at that point.
Man Utd simply took advantage of Spurs feeling sorry for themselves having it go against them, which lets be honest, they should have been more proffesional than that, so they only have themselves to blame. These things happen in football, which they should know, and be able to react to.
But no one can take it away from Man Utd at how outstanding we were during the play that followed the penalty, even if spurs hadnt crumbled under the desicion, i still think we would have went on to win.
As for Giggs getting player of the YEAR award, its the right choice, given that its an award for the best player over the course of the whole of 2008, not the season. Last year Giggs was simply brilliant and by far one of the most consistant player in the Prem.
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I don't really think anyone who has posted on this blog is in a fit position to say the wrong person won this award. Ignoring the fact that the voting takes place in Feb (ridiculously), what could possibly be fairer than being voted by fellow players (none from your own club).
Giggs deserves this award - there have been no players head and shoulders above the others (like Ronaldo last 2 years) and Giggs has been instrumental in key games for United - see Chelsea at home and West Ham away for example.
He will no doubt start against Arsenal tomorrow too.
As for the penalty decision - GET OVER IT! There are bad decisions made all the time in sport. Refs are not robots, nor are they in any way biased. I think scoring 5-2 is a pretty convincing scoreline if only one of the goals is dodgy!
And as for Fergie having double standards - I think you'll find he admitted it wasn't a pen. Something Manuel Benitez would never do.
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Well said Robbo Robson.
Absolutely disgraceful decisions by both Howard Webb and those footballers voting for Giggsy as PFA player of the year. This great game of ours is being ruined by conscious or subconscious refereeing bias and by misplaced sentiment. Surely Gomes should have been red-carded and Gary Neville player of the year?
Digusted,
Nottingham.
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A lot of the posts are correct - we have only ourselves to blame for not turning those draws into wins - then again, Torres has only played half a season and had he been fit he would have made the difference.
Liverpool fans - we will win the league next season (forget this season - even if we win every game 5-0 our hard work will be undone by some dodgy decision going yet again in Utd's favour) by fair means.
We have been the best and most entertaining team this season evidenced by the fact that we are top scorers and have had most shots.
Just imagine if Torres had been fit all season and the refs didn't give such bad decisions in Utd's favour - we would be 10 points plus clear now..
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so the penalty united got on saturday was the worst dodgy penalty decision you've seen since, ooh let me see, oh yeah that's right, since united's last dodgy penalty
you could get a job for the BBC with that kind of take on the world
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As a Stoke fan i'm disappointed that Rory Delap has not been mentioned in the past few blogs Robbo - Can you please mention him next time!
While you're at it you could lambast every other team in the country who now seem to have taken our very own tactic and use it themselves. Its a disgrace the amount of teams that now think they can use the long throw, just where the hell do they get off?
There are a few Man U fans who seem to think that it wasn't that bad of decision - I think as decisions go its on a par with going to Mexico and attempting to set a new world record for rolling around in the most pig poo ever!
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Is there anything more predictable than someone like Feel_The_Magic (158) coming on each week, telling Robbo what a funny guy he is and then berating everyone else for having a sense of humour bypass!!!!
These blogs are written to be provocative to get people interacting. It's their whole point. That's why each week Robbo pokes fun at the usual suspects, deliberately winding people up. For example, do you really believe he thinks that Webb's poor decision was the worst decision since Bolton conceded a penalty at OT in September? Of course not, but he knew it would provoke responses. I bet he and other bloggers on the beeb have some kind of bet going on who gets most comments each week!
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Why are there SO many Utd fans who still think it was a penalty???
The WHOLE WORLD knows it was a BIG mistake by Mr. Webb by now!!!
C'mon, be humble guys! :-)
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It's funny because Carrick's penalty on Saturday was as much of a penalty as the one that Man U fans were crying about the previous week against Everton that wasn't awarded.
Basically, when a United player falls over in the box, they want a penalty, whether it's the correct decision or not.
I wonder what the ref is like tomorrow night in the Thjeatre of dreams. Hope he can handle himself
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Liverpool fans are so biased, no decision in United's favour is ever considered a fair one and no decision in L'pools favour is suspect. Folks these things even themselves out over time. Liverpool were famous for getting penalties, esp late ones, at Anfield during their decade of dominance - it is a fact that the teams at the top of the league get more pens; reason? They attack more; they are generally quicker than the average player; they have more skillful playersl; and their players are a little bit more inclined to tumble in the area with a bit of contact.
These are the facts my scouse amigos - no conspiracy, no favour from the refs. The refs are useless in the prem so they will make errors. The likes of Ronaldo, Torres, Stevie G, Drog etc don't help by tumbling but luckily there are guys like Rooney, Tevez, Kuyt etc who are more inclined to stay on thier feet and get a shot in than tumble so it's not all bad.
Liverpool fans are such terrible losers, they can never take a United victory at face value, there always has to be a reason why it was undeserved. You know what I did when Everton dumped us out of the cup and ended the quintuple dream? I shook my head and said "jeesh we were cr*p there, and Everton deserve a moment in the sun, ah well". The penalty decision didn't bother me, Berba's penalty taking on the other hand.........................
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Satirical blogs are lost on some people...
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67. At 10:52pm on 27 Apr 2009, hebephrenic wrote:
So nothing to do with Liverpool drawing 7 games at home this season against teams they should have done better against? Tell you what, if your had have won 2 of those games - you'd be top and very probably champions at the end of the season.
======================================================================
Well, if it weren't for a poor refereeing decision in at least one of those [v's Stoke] which went AGAINST us we'd still be above you on goal difference with your game against Arsenal to come.......
;)
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Ok, maybe not cause that would have been 2 extra points :-/ Durr!!
It weren't a penalty & that's that! You got lucky in a game you were never on top of up to that point! You needed a little 'extra' help & got it & after that, Spurs collapsed & you benefited.
Giggs has been a great player over the years but 12 games/performances a season does not make. Vidic i could understand [even if El Nino made him look 2nd rate]
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okey, we understand ..... Liverpool hate Manchester United ..... Manchester United hate Liverpool.... What a surprise ....
Football is an emotive game and fans of opposing sides will never agree that such and such was/wasn't a penalty .... such and such has had the majority of the decision etc.....
I don't think that Blogs need to be clogged up with all this rubbish. Just agree to disagree and get on with it.
Giggs getting the award was a bit harsh for this season, but as people say these things even themselves out. At some point during his career i think he hasn't got the award when maybe he should of, so getting it when maybe people don't think he should of evens things out abit.
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Mightysoprano
Perhaps if Liverpool weren't such a two man team they might win the league! Its not much of a team if the only reason they dont win leagues is because of one player missing some games!
As for apparently dodgy decisions going in United's favour isnt there a rule amongst referee's that Carragher can do what ever he likes to opponents in the Liverpool penalty area and get away with it?
I think you will find that every team has dodgy decisions going for them during the season, no more than any others!
You must only watch Liverpool games if you think that they are the most entertaining side in the Premier League! I can think of a few teams that are far more entertaining and dont employ 2 defensive midfielders in their team!
Liverpool have only scored five more goals than United and United have a game in hand, it could well be that United will be the top scorers by the actual end of the season so that would blow that comment of yours out of the water!
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Mightysoprano....just imagine? Just imagine what? A United side with a fully fit Ronaldo from the start, a returning Hargo, a Berbatov with a pre-season under his belt, the young'uns with 12 months more experience.
A fully fit Rio etc etc etc. Im sure you get my drift.
Plus if you really believe its dodgy decisions that have potentially let United win the PL then you are deluded and give genuine Liverpool fans a bad name.
I sincerely hope the genuine Liverpool fans give you what for.
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Oh by the way Soprano...scoring lots of goals does not by definition make you the most entertaining. Maybe if you had scored at Barcas rate but as it is you average something like 0.2 goals a game more than United. Big deal!
Plus i would ask the fans who sat through 11 draws how entertained they were. Granted the Chelsea and Everton games were very entertaining but you didnt win either of them did you?
Just ask Newcastle what they got for being alleged entertainers in 95/96 ad 96/97.
The best team over 38 games wins the league, as simple as that. If Liverpool win it this year that will be the case ( Playing against 10 men on half a dozen occasions and numerous penalties aside!)
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It weren't a penalty & that's that! You got lucky in a game you were never on top of up to that point! You needed a little 'extra' help & got it & after that, Spurs collapsed & you benefited.
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Wheres this myth come from? We were absolutley destroying Spurs after half time, they were sitting back and you felt it is when rather than if the goals would come. Penalty or no penalty we would have scored at least the 3 required to win the game
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Sorry meant Arsenal not Everton!
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This is getting silly, one or two decisions from a referee make no difference one way or another, its like a team who get relegated blame a penalty in the last 10 minutes of the last game of the season sent them down.
NO ... the absolute tripe you played for 99.9% of the season is why you didn't stay up!!!
The same goes for the title, if you cannot get more points during a season than the team in first place you don't win the trophy. The season is 38? games long!! Not 1 game
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Howard Webb's decision was a bad one - but no worse than many others made all over the country each weekend that didn't get the scrutiny that comes with the premiership being at stake.
Liverpool have had plenty of decisions in their favour this season and quite a few against them, as have united. Simply mentioning one or two at random and blaming the destination of the title on them is totally meaningless.
The table doesn't lie.
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its like a team who get relegated blame a penalty in the last 10 minutes of the last game of the season sent them down.
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Or Neil Warnock and Sheffield Utd blaming there entire season on Carlos Tevez.
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I have calculated that if I were to print off all the back and forths between Liverpool and Man Utd fans posted this season and pasted the pages together, it would be able to go round the solar system three times AND still have enough left over to fully cover Ant McPartlin's forehead.
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kevthered83
couldn't agree more!!! But discussing that would be going off the subject a bit and the moderators might get ya :-) LOL
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Oh and to post 145:
"Inconclusive"???? You either need to get your eyes tested or get your TV cleaned. Gomes' touch is there for all to see, even the Man U fans have not debated that fact once on this blog.
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Ok everyone lets try and get the posting on this blog up to 300, that would be some sort of record surely.....
Robbo ... maybe you can post something about ManUtd, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal don't deserve to be in the top 4 and that if you look at the season as a whole and sprout of some stats that show Middlesborough should've been champions 10 games ago, with the Barcodes 2nd and that in fact ManUtd and Liverpool will be in the relegation muckheap (don't worry about West Brom because it doesn't matter which way you look at the stats, they're going down!!!)
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Unfortunately, Howard Webb shares the same vision, ability to keep up with play, and unwavering consistency as Djimi Traore. However, much of this criticism is unjustified: Imagine refereeing a Premiership game looking the wrong way through a pair of binoculars - this is the situation the ill-fated Mr Webb finds himself in. I suggest we immediately forgive this latest transgression and concentrate on persecuting the man for failing to red-card Gomes.
Disgusted,
Nottingham
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Ok ..... how did we get to the decision that Gomes should have had a red card???
Carrick had just arrived in the area, if you are saying that Gomes got him instead of the ball then Carrick has touched it in a direction not towards goal (as you can see from the path of the ball) AND as far as i can make out there was a couple of Spurs defenders there or there abouts.
If he had got past Gomes there was still at least 2 opposition players in his way before he could even get a shot on target!!!
I am not saying that i agree that it was a penalty (because i'm not sure it was) but to then blow it out of proportion and then send the keeper of is really pushing the boat out IMO.
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Judie Rudie - just remind me again please - which team has the best record in the "big 4 league"? Which team has lost only 2 games this season ? Which team thrashed Utd 4-1 in front of their own "fans" most of whom had given up when they went 3-1 down and deserted the team as usual? Check your Facts then revert. Neutrals all agree that we have been the best team this season.
We have had a remarkable season bearing in mind our squad - in net terms - costs nowhere near as much as Utd's. As for being a two man team: any team would miss Torres and Gerrard - Utd have been lucky with injuries this season.
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by the way ... i am not slagging off the referee ... and i can see why he gave the penalty but red card ... get serious!!!
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Brilliant blog.
Giggsy - he's won it 10 times & torn you apart for years, legend. Trly deserved.
Penalty? Maybe not, who cares.
Champions.
ps. You're all idiots.
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mightysoprano .... i'm a neutral and i don't agree ....
In the big games (Arsenal, Chelsea, ManUtd) they have played great .... tactically they have been sound and won the games fair and square, but too many times they have been found wanting against the lower sides who decide to be more tactically defensive. Now you can slag off the likes of Stoke etc... for doing this, but they are fighting for every point they can get to stay up. They are not going to try and play a expansive attacking game and leave themselves open.
If Liverpool do not have the tactical knowhow to beat these sides then they shouldn't win the league.
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Lucky with injuries!! You obviously don't look outside your Liverpool box United have had loads of injuries all over the place and yet it didn't affect the fact they are top! If they had either Gerrard or Torres and they missed 3/4 of the season they would still be top! United dont just rely on 1 or 2 players they rely on the whole team!
If you want facts let me ask you one thing who has won the most games this season?
The league isn't won on who loses most games and isn't a mini league of who has the best record against the "big four" its over the whole season and against all the teams in that league!
Neutrals wouldnt agree that Liverpool have been the best team this season and the league reflects that and if Liverpool dont win the league how can a team that won nothing be regarded as the team of the season?
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It was not a penalty, Gomes got the ball. But a few points here for the moaners...
-Turning point of the game was NOT the penalty. United were on the ascendency from the moment Tevez came on and Rooney went on the left, which changed the structure of the team. The turning point of the game was Tevez coming on for Nani and Rooney exploiting Spurs' left flank.
-Therefore, it's a safe bet that United would have gone on to beat Spurs anyway given the way they were playing.
-After the penalty, Spurs were still 2-1 up. If they can't hold a 2-1 lead because they are still smarting about a refereeing decision then Spurs need to sort their mentality out. If they played as well as they did in the first half they could have prevented conceding more goals.
-Wellbeck denied a clear penalty in FA Cup against Everton. Not all decisions go in United's favour.
So get over it.
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Yet another person moaning about the penalty we got and ignoring this http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9347/palacios.gif ever happened.
That was a clear red card and happened in the 8th? minute - Do you honestly believe that Spurs would have ever been 2-0 up had Palacios got the red that the tackle deserved?
As for the rest of the blog it wasn't too bad in all fairness, just wish that not everyone commenting on the United vs Spurs game would moan about the pen and disregard the blatant red card Spurs should have had.
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162. mightysoprano
"even if we win every game 5-0 our hard work will be undone by some dodgy decision going yet again in Utd's favour"
Which team have been awarded the most penalties this season? Liverpool, by a distance. (As for European nights at Anfield, Liverpool may as well be awarded a penalty in the warm-up to get it out of the way).
Which team has had most red cards given to opposition players? Liverpool, by a distance. Eight in total, two of which were rescinded (Lampard, Friedel), a further two of which were unanimously thought as harsh (Adebayor, Valencia).
And yes the penalty United were awarded against Spurs was poor but what about Mascherano tripping himself up for Liverpool's first on Saturday? And Lucas's handball? If you really think that United being top is due to 'poor decisions' (and presumably their dominance over the past two decades has been down to referees as well?) then you're very deluded and VERY bitter.
As for Liverpool being, in your words, "the best and most entertaining team this season", that defies belief. Benitez's team has been dull for the most part this season... indeed his reluctance to play attacking football will probably ultimately cost them given all of those draws at home in matches they should have been cruising. But all of a sudden, two 4-4's in a row (both of which Benitez was forced to abandon his defensive principals and chase the game) and you really believe you're the most entertaining team in the league?!! Dream on.
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But all of a sudden, two 4-4's in a row (both of which Benitez was forced to abandon his defensive principals and chase the game) and you really believe you're the most entertaining team in the league?!! Dream on.
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Well said
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As i posted earlier the reason Liverpool are not top of the league is the folloing stats:
Manchester United W24 D5
Liverpool W21 D11
So if they had converted 3 of those draws to have won 24 then they would be 3 points ahead having played 1 more game. Liverpool have a slightly better goal difference but still the same if they hadn't drawn as many they would be top by the mile.
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mightysoprano looking over previous posts from you, you have said
"that watching Liverpool was like watching the old Wimbledon play even they didn't play as many long balls!"
and "Not only is our squad weaker than the other two mentioned (Utd. and Chelsea) but we (liverpool) are not positive enough to win the league- would the other two really have been as defensive at Stoke and played with one striker (kuyt) who is not really a striker"
It doesnt look to me that even you believe the drivel you have been posting! Either that or as most Liverpool "fans" you have a REALLY short memory!!
Not exactly what i would call the most exciting team to watch this season by your own admission!
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192. At 3:51pm on 28 Apr 2009, jelee_uk wrote:
It was not a penalty, Gomes got the ball. But a few points here for the moaners...
-Turning point of the game was NOT the penalty......
at this point i realised you knew nothing about football so didnt bother read the rest.
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I'm thinking of planting a massive line of Leylandii somewhere between Manc-land and Merseyside - failing that I'll write one blog for L'pool fans and one for United's then we can all pretend we're always right...
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Liverpool fans can pretend, but we all know who's really right ;)
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Dearest Digispoonerta,
Gomes deserved early doors in the shower, not for that one result-altering gaffe where he disgracefully only got four and a half digits to the ball instead of five, but for the twelve major catastrophic blunders he has contributed to the team this season. Our prized professional footballers realise that twelve performances of note can have a huge impact upon one's team. So let's award Ryan the silver candle holder, Heurelho the card of shame, and as an added bonus this is a perfect opportunity to crucify Mr Webb.
Disgusted,
Nottingham
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allow me to be impartial for a moment and analyse the united v spurs game...
spurs wanted it so much more in the first 45 minutes and just about deserved their two goals, united were wasteful and nani was dire.
at half time man utd's world class manager was allowed to earn his wage and duly delivered. removing nani was a no brainer (the boy possibly needs a season or so at a struggling premier league side to adjust) but i'd hate to have been on the receiving end of the team 'talk' he must have dished out in those fifteen minutes - berba came looking whiter than his normal vampire-ish self!
i dont remember a tottenham chance of note in the next 45 minutes and united could have scored three or four more on their day. tevez, and later scholes' introduction, was the difference.
you could argue all day long about the questionable penalty but if you're honest you have to accept united would have scored several minutes later anyway. anyone still in doubt as to the significance of the penalty should watch the palacios challenge in the 8th minute. im sure every united fan in the country breathed a sigh of relief (as did i) when they saw ronaldo manage to hurdle the diving tackle as we've seen legs broken over similar incedents in the past. a red card in 8 minutes would have seriously impeded spurs ambitions for the game and i was surprised to see the spurs midfield inforcer stay on the pitch.
a final point, player of the YEAR award. for 2008. not the current season. player of the current season would perhaps have to be gerrard but giggs won the accolade through his efforts guiding united to a premier league and champions league trophy last may as well as a handful of impressive performances against united's strongest opponants this year.
i think it's difficult to argue with what i've said. the season looks to be drawing to a thrilling close. let's hope the scousers can pick up maximum points in their remaining games to take the premier league down to the final day!
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The blog's headed "Relyin on Ryan"
So I can only assume the postings that have been removed didn't talk about the Man U - Spurs game then? They actually commented on Gigg's award?
Giggs has played exceptionally well this season and just 'cos he's at the tail end of his career, I don't think this is a sympathy vote or career award at all. He's deserved it. Sure, there's other players who had a shout but someone's gotta pick up the award, right?
Sir Alex
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In the wake of Giggs' PFA success I am currently downloading a copy of 'Saving Private Ryan', which I'm led to believe is a feature-length documentary detailing SAF's relationship with a bashful, young Giggs about to turn his back on the game at the age of 14. This due to his coy and withdrawn nature being at odds with the football limelight.
I have already downloaded and viewed a copy of the sequel 'Shaving Ryan's Privates' which bewilderingly did not portray Giggs as shy at all. Can anyone clear up this contradiction? I certainly agree with Robbo Robson when he quoted that: "Giggs just gets on with it and keeps his head down", but is this any sort of behavior for a high profile footballer in the public eye?
Disgusted,
Nottingham
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I love how Ryan Giggs was so proud of his Mancunian roots that he took his mothers maiden name and renounced his Englishness. To play for Wales.
For that reason, he deserves to win the PFA Player of the Year. Well done Mr Wilson.
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to all the united fans stop arguing with the scousers cause there is no point in it.There is one set of rules when it comes to their games and another set of rules when it comes to our games.
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LOL at robbo's lil comment, yer giggs probably hasnt been the best player this season but then again its other "pro's" that have voted for him, as for some of the comments going around about him, true he has not played many but i remember when man united played chelsea where he made chelseas midfield look like complete muppets the suppose world class prime players of ballack and lampard looking extremely average against a 35 year old welsh winger playing in the centre, now thats comedy. He should really have got something like outstanding contribution to football or something but meh what can you do. And btw mancs and scousers, your both wrong and your both deluded :)
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Thank-you again Robbo, enlightened and provocatively insightful but how the heck (I've often pondered) does anybody get a life time achievement award when they're still alive? Unless of course they've made a declaration that they have no plans to achieve 'owt else no matter how long there is to go before they pull that last breath. Now, in Giggsy's case, he's only 35. 21 years from now when he's the same age as Stanley Matthews was when he hung up his boots, and he's stepping on the field for his 3,000th appearance in a Man U shirt in the Champs league final versus Boro, perhaps then we can call it a lifetime achievement, perhaps. And, if we throw in the Charity Shield, the quintuple possibility is alive and well. Good for him and good for all them as voted for him!
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#10 The referee clearly got it wrong - Gomes got a clear touch on the ball and it wasn't Gomes who made contact with Carrick, it was Carrick who made contact with Gomes by falling over the goalie's outstretched arm. And yes, you're biased.
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#205 What Englishness did Ryan Giggs renounce, exactly? Playing for England Schoolboys? He was born in Cardiff and spent his early childhood there. He took his mother's maiden when his parents split up.
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So if he played for England Schoolboys THEN decided to play for Wales when he could have played for England (and many people, including me, wish he had done) what do you call this?
The fact remains, he chose his nationality to be Welsh, not English.
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Ryan Giggs was never eligible to play for the full Wales team. Both his parents are Welsh and none of his grandparents were English. Qualification for playing for England Schoolboys isn't based on nationality but residence, ie where you live. Giggs lived in England when he was selected for England Schoolboys.
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The bloke was born in Wales to welsh parents and wasn't eligible to play for England. He played for England schoolboys 'cos he went to an English school.
However, he treated playing for Wales like a chore as his record of appearances in 'friendlies' shows.
None of which changes the fact he shouldn't have been near the Footballer of the Year award this year.
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Sorry, I mean Ryan Giggs was never eligible to play for the full ENGLAND team.
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Hi Robbo,
Great blog as always. Personally I have always thought of Ryan Giggs as a model professional and have no problem with him winning the PFA, even if this hasn't been his best season.
Incidentally, are you really Red Robbo, coz I'm sure he planted British Leylandii in a lot of trouble some years ago!
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I think Robbo could blog on something completely random, absolutley nothing to do with football and it would still turn into a United v Liverpool debate.
Get over yourselves ladies.
The penalty decision was wrong, even the ref's admited it now. But the fact that Liverpool fans are up in arms about it is nothing short of a joke.
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Ah, sorry then feller's, so he HAD to play for Wales?
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kenny_burns_kneecap
I know ..... Gomes has been a joke for most of the season reminds me of the old joke:
"What does Gomes and Dracula have in common?"
"They don't like crosses!" ....... baddom tish!!!!!
Anyway, if your giving out awards then The Wembly groundsman should get a Gold at the next Chelsea Flower Show. SAF for dance move of the year (FA Cup Semi touchline) .... i'm sure we can think up more!!!
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Utd given the title by one refereeing decision? Hardly think so.
Decisions go for and against teams all the time. Referees can be inconsistent, just like players can. They arent perfect. Ive watched plenty of games this season where decisions have gone for and against Utd.
For example, as a Utd fan, the penalty against Bolton? Not a penalty in my eyes. One game in particular that stands out however was Utd v Chelsea at OT. One of the worst refereed games i have seen in my life when there should have been about 3 less players on the pitch and if the linesmen were wearing their specs it would have been about 5-0.
If we are going to bring up history then yea, Utd were denied a clear penalty in the FA-Cup semis. It wasnt called, so there. Unlucky, but thats football for you.
Against Spurs, Palacios was lucky to still be on the pitch in my opinion and i doubt spurs would still have scored 2 with 10 men... The penalty was a 50-50 decision wrongly called. Did it help Utd back into the game? maybe it did, but there was no penalty to put utd back in the games against villa or sunderland was there? spurs defending was shocking and so they lost. end of.
as for all the liverpool fans, maybe a few more home wins instead of draws against weaker teams and you wouldn't need to complain about these decisions because you would be first. Even then im sure you would complain anyway. I remember a certain mr gerrard getting a penalty against atletico madrid earlier in the season that was more of a blatant red card for amatuer dramatics that had larger implications than utd against spurs? thats just football for ya.
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Would Liverpool fans admit this wrongly given penalty was not the decisive scene of the game if ManU would have won 8:2?
Was 5:2 not high enough?
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I still blame the parents.
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Dearest Digispoonerta (218)
With further regard to the dubious PFA award to Giggs:
Jokes aside, and to be brutally honest and fair, I think we should ALL put our prejudices to one side and, as candid and honest sports lovers, we should acknowledge that Steven Gerrard is the one that deserves silverware on his mantelpiece.
I suggest he be awarded a Lonsdale belt, for his magnificent performance in last December's bout versus Marcus McGee at The Lounge Club, Southport. It is also fitting that his two accomplices be similarly rewarded, particularly for their unselfish teamwork and focused belligerence.
Disgusted,
Nottingham
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I still think it is a travesty that Mark Schwarzer was not shortlisted this year.
He has been by far the standout 'keeper of the season.
Yes, Van der sar didnt concede for however many games / hours etc, but i am sure that any keeper worth their salt would find it hard to let goals in with that back 4 in front of him, Vidic especially!
And what about big fat frank??
Old lumpalard must surely be worth a mention? Although i am not his biggest fan, he is one of the most consistent players in the Prem.
Ryan Giggs winning that award is a smack in the face for all of the other players that have grafted for 50 games or so.
You never know though, if a player can win for playing a mere 12 games, there is hope for me yet!!!!
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Dearest palace_mark (223)
Point very well made. Predominantly the observation that Lampard should have been considered for the PFA award. This, particularly because the midfield powerhouse has maintained his supreme levels of performance throughout the aftermath of a very public breakdown in his personal relationship.
I also agree with Robbo Robson that Lampard should be applauded for defending himself on radio.
I for one, lay the blame firmly at the feet of his ex-fiancee and the mother of his two children, Elen Rives. How dare this woman suddenly blame Frank's perpetual philandering for their split; every man and his dog has known for years that Frank is second to none in getting from box to box.
Disgusted,
Nottingham
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Two things:
Which is more ridiculous: Giggs, for the player he is and the accolades he's got, never won the PFA, or that he's won it this year, whne probably a couple others are more deserving?! Yeah, Robbo, you get it now?!
Second, I was thinking about the graciousness of Harry as well! so, that's agood point.
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#kenny_burns_kneecap ....
Award for the person looking most like the Nodding dog from the Churchill Adverts goes to....... Harry Redknapp ..... oh yes!!!!
The award for the most rediculous face when being fouled award goes to...... Christiano Ronaldo!!
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I don't care for Giggs. He was rubbish for Wales and plays for the most odious team in the world.
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He has NEVER played for Liverpool! What are you talking about?
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Re ; %
I saw Ryan Giggs as a schoolboy playing for England at Wembley when he called himself Ryan Wilson. If he'd opted to play for England he'd have more caps than Beckham ( who btw only started a little over 1/2 of the games he played in - unlike Bobby Moore ) and England might have been genuine contenders. I can't remember the last time we had an effective left- sided attacking player.
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That should read Re:5
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At 5:40pm on 27 Apr 2009, loudLovelyrita wrote:
.Imagine an England team with Giggs Beckham Scholes and Nicky Butt all in their prime.That would be quite something would'nt it!
NO Butt was rubbish
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Re: 229, "If he had opted to play for England", when will people get it through their skulls that Giggs could never have opted to play for England. The only other country he could have opted to play for was Sierra Leone - and that actually is a FACT. He played for English Schoolboys as he was at school in England - and that also is a FACT.
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