Hacking off Hackett
Is it me or did the Premier League season appear to start with a reasonable level of respect towards officials? There has even been, glory be, an understanding that referees and their assistants (whilst being short-sighted slapheads to a man of course) are human beings capable of the odd error.
People like Keane, Hodgson, Southgate, Scolari etc have not, so far, resorted to calling for stocks to be reintroduced so that we can all throw rotten vegetables at Alan Wiley as he's pedaled through the street.
Referees have not studied Jackie Chan films to discover how to take out a pursuing mass of Chelsea defenders 'cos they happen to have written one of their names down in their little book.
Of course, I was deceiving myself.
Moyes's aggravation about not getting a pen on Saturday was mildly understandable given it wasn't a great decision, although his reaction was still a bit OTT.
At least he gained a bit of respect back by sitting one row in front of some Stoke fans and shaking them by the hand at the end. Not summat you could ever expect from the absolute master of undermining officialdom - the Glasgow Beetroot himself.
Apparently the FA are going to investigate his comments and see if Sir Alex has said anything untoward. Well he said Keith Hackett told Mark Halsey to rescind the yellow card shown to John Terry - and added that "he would never do that for us".
Great man, Fergie. Knighthood, track record par excellence, three really brilliant teams put together in 19 years...
But sometimes his gob opens and a spew of garbage falls out and you just wish you could slap him round the ears with a bit of rolled-up newspaper.
'He would never do that for us'! It's transparently accusing Hackett of bias. Sir Alex says the bloke pulls strings for Chelsea and Man U get the rough end. I mean it's nonsense.
Terry's challenge should not have received a red card - although it was so lamely cynical from an ethical standpoint he should've walked without being asked. Vidic's two bookings were entirely justified and no-one at Old Trafford has appealed, so they must realise it themselves. So what's he on about?
Of course Fergie's not a fan of Hackett's so maybe it's as much that as anything. Man Utd have also not made the greatest start to a season so it's inevitable the big bosses are going to start pointing fingers anywhere but in the direction of their under-achieving millionaires out on the pitch.
Wenger's team, which has had him purring in his most pleasantly Strasbourg tones after scoring 11 and conceding none in three games, have drawn their game in Kiev 'cos the ref cheated them out of it, not only with the pen but with the lack of injury-time. Never mind that the team was average, eh?
The worst aspect of it all is that that remark - 'He would never do that for us' - is so bloody adolescent. It's straight out of a Harry Enfield sketch.
I can only imagine what it's like on the Man U bus if, for example, Rooney hands out some blackcurrant Chewits and there aren't enough left for the gaffer. I guess he just sprawls over his seat yelling|: "It's not fair! You always give sweeties to Cristiano!"
The FA procedure now is that Fergie has to explain his comments, which kind of begs the question: How stupid are the people running the FA? What's to explain?
He basically said that Hackett favours Chelsea. I don't see how anyone can get away with this sort of petty insult without getting a serious fine (I'd say in this case at least a minute's worth of Fergie's salary). He got away with similar digs at Martin Atkinson and Hackett following the FA Cup defeat to Pompey last year - again, a game United would have won had they taken one of their gazillion chances.
Scolari says he's surprised Terry's red card became yellow, 'cos where he comes from the referee is God. Bit of a worry in that case that so many of his Portugal side seemed to be happy to con God into giving them a decision in 2004 - can't see Deco getting to heaven in that case, can you?
But Big Phil is right. Refs aren't God over here. Neither is the FA. No, unless you live in Tyneside, God is Sir Alex Ferguson. Just ask him.
Now before the Man U bandwagon begins to roll tediously all over this blog, let me be dead clear. You cannot knock Ferguson's record as a manager, or the entertainment his teams have provided over the last 20 years and more.
It's just at 67 years of age you'd think he'd have got over spouting off like a schoolgirl every time a decision - especially a fair decision - goes against him. Why can't he just say "Terry wasn't the last defender, it wasn't serious foul play, it only deserved a yellow card, so the decision is right"?
Respect the ref? Let's start at the top, shall we?
I'm Derek Robson. People call me Robbo. Legend has it I was raised in the furnace and smog of Teesside. Some might say I took the hard road. I like to tell folk I had trials for Middlesbrough, for Hartlepool and for burglary (not guilty). I've always loved sport. My job is to say it as I see it - whether it's in the bar of the Blue Bell or on this blog. You won't find me calling a spade a soil-redistribution implement.
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~48~RS~)
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Much as I thought it was a cynical foul by John Terry, I never thought it was a red card.
What Mark Halsey should have done is book John Terry for the foul and then immediately give him a second booking for his dissenting reaction (even if there wasn't one) and we get the same result, a sending off ;-p
BTW Is it correct that Mark Halsey has been "demoted" to League 2 this weekend?
Regards
Ged
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Halsey is down to do League 2 this weekend and it's something that is a bit of a bee in my bonnet.
Having had a chat with the man himself I know that Hackett does not approve of the "demotion" system if a referee "has a bad game" or in more truthful terms gets a sending off incorrect.
There's usually no improvement on assesments when referees from the select group are demoted and actually there's an increased likelyhood that their marks will go down.
THe system was introduced due to pressure from managers via the chairmen of the PL essentially because they want their scapegoat.
This isnt' just me spouting off personal opinons either, I'm definitiely not the only person who thinks this to be true.
THe unfortunate thing is that whilst admittedly getting a red card incorrect is not the best thing a ref can do, at the same time you will never hear from a pundit that a ref had a good game, but you will if he has made, literally one mistake in a match albet a biggun.
At the same time the whole, "the best ref is one you don't notice" is rubbish (part of the reason you never hear of a ref having a good game). Often the time that a referee will have the best game (based on asessments is when a referee HAS to make the decisions and gets noticed for making them, giving the penalty when it's correct to or walking a player for a bad tackle.
I'm trying not to sound too biased in this, but sometimes you need to give credit where it's due, yes acknowledge when a mistake has been made, but at he same time when something good is done acknowledge that as well.
The same applies to players as well so why not refs.
As part of this respect initiative, does no one think it might not be an idea to have to sort of award for the best refs/assistants, not some kind of big showy event but just a small announcement at the end of the season along with the PFA player of the year or something like that just as a footnote to show that players whilst being the most important part of the game, aren't 100% of it?
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It was most definitely a red card, as Terry blocked a "Goal scoring opportunity with a foul punishable by free kick or penalty".
However, if there's one person who should not be complaining about refereeing bias, it's Ferguson. How many penalties do opposition teams get at Old Trafford each season? I have no statistics nearby, but I'm pretty sure it's less than they get anywhere else. Ferguson is also blessed with the unique ability to order extra time "Until we score". Even Vidic should have received a "Graham Poll-red", if you know what I mean. If Ferguson wants to maintain these perks, he'd better start showing some respect to the refs.
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Was never a red card and Man Utd fans and their boss' whinge is terribly biased
Was Vidic's foul worse than Terry's?
Of course it was
- Keane was further to goal than Jo and had no defender ahead if he got past
- covering defence for United just came past as Keane was on the ground, whereas Terry was not the last man Carvalho was already past Jo when Terry made an attempt to stop him
So why was Terry deserving of a red card YET Vidic escapes for a yellow for a foul which was worse off than Terry's situation
Vidic was lucky that the referee showed him just a yellow for that and also the elbow to the face of Alonso without making a serious attempt to make a legal play for the ball
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#3 Fullofham
Yes, United were almost let off a red card at Anfield if not for Howard Webb getting told it was Vidic's second yellow despite them being only a few minutes between the two fouls. He didn't even realise it was Vidic's second yellow card which is quite embarrassing
and yes bit hypocritical for claiming referees help Chelsea
Was it Chelsea that was helped when Chelsea went to Old Trafford? When Mikel was sent off? When Tevez scored way after injury time ended? When Saha took a swandive and conned the referee of a penalty to make it 2-0?
Or maybe Steve Bennett sending off Mascherano for a soft second bookable offence but can tolerate the loud booming insults from Rooney against Wigan several times and to make it worst can't send Paul Scholes off for a second bookable offence, gives Rooney a soft penalty after Wigan were denied a strong one
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If you think Terry's challenge should not have received a red card, then you are obviously watching the wrong game, and this absurd opinion renders worthless the rest of your comments.
Terry's tackle was the sort of cynical hatchet job which is too prevalent in English football. The Guthrie/Fagan tackle was another. Jo was nowhere near the goal. There was defensive cover. Terry had either (or both) of two reasons - thwarting Jo by foul means, or reacting petulantly to being beaten so easily. The longer term objective is to undermine the confidence of the attacking player, or causing injury which reduces his effectiveness. Well done referee Halsey to spot and penalise it, and shame on the FA for allowing the hatchet-men to prosper. Fergie is obviously bothered that Ronaldo will be the next target.
You accuse Fergie of puerile peevishness; pots and kettles, mate.
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The problem here is that John Terry and the FA have previous.
When JT was sent off at White Hart Lane (I think) for dissent, the FA decided to believe him and not the referee.
Again here, he commits an utterly utterly cynical foul, true cheating in the purest sense, and gets a red card for it, not because he was the last defender but because he was a cheat.
The impression is that as England Captain, JT has been given a cheat's charter. He can do what he likes knowing that there will be no consequences. (Perhaps that is why he chooses to park in disabled bays?)
Ferguson may be a graceless loser who should be permanently charged with bringing the game into disrepute, but he's not wrong in saying that John Terry gets special treatment.
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no one at old trafford appealed against vidic red card?? maybe i'm wrong and the rules have changed but it was my understanding that you cannot appeal against yellow cards unless it's for mistaken identity meaning united cannot appeal against the red card as it was for 2 yellow cards.............anyone provide any clarification?
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What? How thick are som people?!
Vidic's tackle was worse, but under a completely different circumstance or condition.
What would have happened if either didnt foul? Could Lpool have scored, NOPE.
Could Man City?, YES!
I'm not saying Terrys deserved a red card but it is illogical to compare them flatly without even sparing a thought for the situation of the moment and what would have happened had no foul been commited.
To Fullofham,
Yes there is bias towards Man Utd at OT, more than others I suspect, but how dumb can you be to suggest that the lack penalties proves your point.
How many teams constantly has Utds penalty box at OT?
Guess what, if you dont get into Utds penalty area, you've got little chance for a penalty!
And how frequently do teams go to OT and dominate from start to finish?
As for Sir Alex, yes he is a hypocrite.
He's the Paul Scholes of managers so to speak. Wonderful manager, but his hypocrisy (respect refs, etc) is at times as bad as Scholseys tackling.
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Great article Robbo,
As a Gooner my only criticism of God (sorry, Wenger) is his inability to put his hands up and appreciate that the referee has very little to do with the result. Bad decisions are forgotten instantly by the victors, and all too often lamented by the losers. Particularly when they aren't used to losing.
Fergie takes this to a new level, seemingly convinced that he operates on higher moral plane than any other manager. He has earned his place as a legend of the modern game, but lets himself down all too often with his comments and attitude towards decisions made both on and off the pitch.
Terry does seem to think that as England captain he is infallible, and his rugby tackle was a red card regardless of whether or not he was the last man. Even Scolari was surprised by the decision to rescind the red.
Anyway, that is football after all, and after this weekend's fixtures we will have a new set of poor decisions to moan about; with our respective managers leading the line.
Peace.
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The worst thing the Terry decision flags up is the FA's ridiculous rule that they cannot replace a red card even with a yellow card. In my view such a cynical piece of cheating deserved a red, but by completely wiping out the decision, the FA is condoning such actions. How can respect exist for an organisation that repeatedly shows itself to have no common sense at all?
By relegating Halsey to League 2 for the weekend, this has been compounded, and shows it is acceptable for teams like Chelsea to act like this.
But then most people already know this. The Big 4 are allowed to get away with murder, because the idiots that run the national game only care about the money.
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Robbo, I normally like your blogs, but this one's way off the mark and a bit insulting to the greatest manager of this generation. It's quite obvious what he's doing. Like all of us, Ferguson's entitled to his opinions, and if he has ulterior motives for making these opinions public, then so be it. This article reads like you've had a bad day and had nothing else to complain about. Am I close to the mark 'Kevin'?
(I'm not a ManU fan...)
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For once Robbo, I think its you that needs to keep quiet as this is a repetitive post that has been debated to death
Yes, Fergie has a go at officials when things dont go his way - big surprise! I agree, he does spout some rubbish at times but he always has done and always will
At the end of the day, I know I would rather have him on my side than not and you only have to look at his track record (which is not just good, its absolutely outstanding) to know hes doing something right
United will get going again, once Ronaldo and Berba are back fit and playing although the weekends game at Chelsea has suddenly become huge
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Euro Paddy - I completely agree with you
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PS For what its worh - both vidic and terry deserved yellow cards. Red card for Terry was wrong. End of discussion as its getting boring!
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mightySpursToby - #15, ditto
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The point being made is not whether or not John Terry should have been sent off, but that the longest-standing, most experienced manager in the Premiership chose to make the ridiculous comment that 'it'd never happen to us.'
The man is 67 years old. You would have thought he might have moved on from playground stuff, but no.
He may be a great manager, but, in many ways, he is still a baby. Me! Me! What about me? It's not fair! It's not fair!
This is from the manager of the European Cup holders! It's dreadful. Does he really think there's a huge conspiracy against Manchester United? Does he hell - this is pure gamesmanship.
To use the language of Fergie, it's not big and it's not clever.
The man has done wonders for Man U and has shown what faith in a manager can achieve, but the sooner he retires, the better. He's the game's senior manager and the truth is he's bad for football.
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Why are so many people missing the point? Fergie's comments were not a heat-of-the-moment rant or tirade. They were deliberate and calculated and designed to deflect attention away from his under-performing team. Like it or not, it doesn't matter - this is just mind games (obviously working on some people...). Full Stop. End of...
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Agree with BigHairRef. Referee demotion does not help.
I think most bad referee decisions are either simple mistakes or the consequence of fear of getting it wrong. They know they will be vilified by the press and commentators/pundits (including those from the BBC) who should show more respect for people trying to do a difficult job.
I would like to go further. I think all evidence for disciplinary decisions should be open to public scrutiny. No more private hearings. No more secrecy. Lets see the referee's report. Let's hear how the manager's and players justify their actions.
On Terry's foul, I think people are confusing their idea of justice with what's actually normal custom and practice. If you want to make what Terry did a red card offence, do it before the game so everyone is aware of the consequences of the action, not during it. Terry knew when he impeded Jo and brought him down that the normal punishment for the offence would be a booking. Anything more would be inconsistent with what refs in other games would be awarding and consistency is key.
Finally, I would like "attempting to influence a referee" to be treated in the same way as bringing the game into disrepute. All the managers do it because it works. How can we expect the ref to do a good job when they have so much pressure heaped on them by managers, players, commentators, pundits and fans?
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Robbo got this spot on.
All managers, regardless of the division in which they ply their skills, will want to see their side win. Failure to win (or more to the point, REPEATED failure) could eventually lead to his dismissal. So naturally a manager will throw utter lies about and accusations so as to see his side gain results.
In the case of Fergie, he was angry not because Vidic saw red whereas John Terry's sending off was turned to a yellow, but because as a direct result his attackers would have to face a Chelsea side with John Terry at centre back.
In my opinion Fergie gives a little too much credit to one man! He may well be the England captain and all round decent player but JT is as likely to see himself sent off against Man Utd with the style he often adopts, rather than a more cautious stand-in. I would have thought the chance to play against 10 men in your next match would be relished.
However, it is hypothetical of JT being sent off twice in two League matches.
Ultimately it is embarrassing that a great figure like SAF would make such obviously petty remarks in the hopes of gaining a slight one-match advantage. Again, I question whether he really feels his team are in need of such tricks to win the Prem? Does he not believe his players are capable of winning the competition without resorting to cheating methods?
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You have all missed the point, does nobody remember the 2 sendings off of Scholes and Rooney in the pre-season Amsterdam Tournament?
Scholes' was for 2 yellows and he was given a 1 match PREMIERSHIP ban,
Rooney's was for an alleged elbow that was no more than a fair challenge for the ball - the ref obviously decided to get on the "send off rooney" bandwagon. This is clear from the replays.
Rooney was awarded a ridiculous 3 game PREMIERSHIP ban.
Everyone expected these bans to be rescinded being that it was a pre season friendly, however the FA didn't, which is quite embarassing for the premier league.
That's just one incident that Fergie is referring to when he says "Hackett would never have done that to us".
Everyone knows Vidic got 2 deserved yellows and no-one at OT has been complaining about that at all.
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13 - so we should just ignore fergie and let him get away with it? despite the fact that he's probably the biggest hypocrite in the game, and everybody knows it
it's incredibly annoying because you have a bloke who has produced great teams over the years and united as the biggest team in the league always receive the rub of the green as it were - many people, such as middlesboro fans, might have a case to whinge about that red card appeal after their own experience, but fergie is just as guilty as chelsea at getting preferential treatment
it's just the same as when he whinges about tapping up, which is exactly what he did with berbatov - I guess in some ways the cynical way in which he obtains the player he wants carries a certain amount of respect, but whinging about things like a schoolgirl like robbo says is just plain irritating...i guess arrogance comes with the job
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Crikey, im bored of this so im logging off
To end this discussion. Fergie makes rants because hes a sore loser - thats not a crime. You can choose to ignore them or listen to them.
Terry, Vidic - yellow cards were sufficient
Robbo - next time a more interesting post please!
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Did you really comment on not appealing Vidic' sending off?
I was under the impression that you can't appeal a sending off from 2 yellow cards?
Great journalism once again from the BBC, who let's be honest, all across the board are failing.
Biased news, mis-informed opinions etc
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Surely Fergies comments stem from his years of experience as a winning manager. By putting the media attention on his rather OTT accusations he takes the attention away from his teams misfiring performance, thereby alleviating too much pressure from their shoulders. Whilst the comments may not be good for the game they allow his team to flourish..... and after all thats what he get paid for. Fergie, Wenger, Mourinho have all used this tactic on their way to winning premiership titles.
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If the Ref gives a yellow card to a player when he should have got a red that`s the end of it. The FA cannot change the penalty because it`s "been taken care off"
Same should apply for a Red card unless it`s a case of mistaken identity.
The degree of punishment should be left to the Ref who decides in the context of the game. 3 or 4 borderline fouls can result in a yellow.
2 or 3 borderline fouls followed by a definite yellow/borderline red may persuade the ref to give a straight red.
And that`s where it should end not in a comfy office and out bof context.
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Robbo,
Good blog highlighting the fact that SAF gets away with saying stuff about the officials. The only way i can think that this can be put into context is by using the military system. I myself am in the Royal Navy. Yeah, we have our bosses, we also have regulators (lets call them our referees). If we were at any point to question these guys, we get charged, we get fined, we're told to dress in best uniform and go to the Captain's table, and get punished. Being at the bottom of the food chain of the RN, it happens a lot to my collegues of the same rank, (eg. The new managers), but even if an Officer or Senior Rate, (SAF, Wenger, Scolari, etc..) says something out of the ordinary, they also are punished. This keeps it the same throughout the ranks and there is no favouritism.
I do beleive that the top clubs are maybe getting a bit better treatment than the others, but even so, i think SAF should be fined, punished, etc.. for opening his big gob when he doesn't need to say anything at all.
As with the John Terry Red Card, well maybe it was 35 yds away from goal, but for me the refs decision is final. For those of us that play Sunday League Football, do we have the advantage of TV Replays if we get sent off? No, we have to make do with the refs decision and that is final. I think it should be the same way in the PL. Sent off, pay the fine, have suspension, get on with the game!! There are to many whingers in the game now, and anyway, what does JT care? He'll still get his £120,000 for sitting with his feet up for a couple of weeks!!
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Robbo. Thank you for so eloquently paraphrasing Wengers comments. It just took me less than a minute to find on the bbc Wengers remarks...
-------
Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger:
"The game is a mixture of frustration and relief.
"Frustration because it was agame that should have been over at half-time as we created clear-cut chances.
"It was relief as we were 1-0 down with three minutes to go. Our level dropped in the second half and we didn't create as many chances as we wanted."
-------
Yes the penalty was harsh and yes there wasn't enough injury time played. THese are statements of fact, nothing like what Ferguson has said. You defend Moyes for being annoyed at the decision and not Wenger. Are you just another Xenophobe?
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I think you've missed the point robbo.
Terry's red card was NOT downgraded to a yellow card, because under the FA rules this is not allowed. So basically by rescinding the red card, Hackett is saying Terry's rugby tackle was not even worthy of a yellow. Next we'll have Chelsea appealing that it wasn't even a foul and that they were denied possesion of the ball!
Also I think rugby tackling an opponent IS serious foul play and Terry can have no complaints whatsoever.
With regards to Vidic, United didn't appeal beacuse they had no grounds to, either of the yellows could have been reds anyway. I don't think Ferguson was referring to this when he said 'Hackett would never have done that for us'.
unbiased cov fan
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PompeyMilhouse,
Youy RN analogy is interresting, but unless things have changed dramatically in the last 10 years, you're living in La-La land. When I left the mob in '99, those you describe as 'bottom-of-the-food-chain' were saying, doing and getting-away-with things that were unheard of only a few years before. It's a changing world my friend, more tolerant and liberal - even in the Navy. Good or bad? That's another debate I guess...
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calling for stocks to be reintroduced so that we can all throw rotten vegetables at Alan Wiley as he's pedaled through the street.
------------
this sentence shows a lack of understanding of what stocks are, stocks dont have pedals
But otherwise the gist here is quite correct, fergie needs to grow up. He got away free last season against portsmouth were others wouldnt have, he should really have the book thrown at him for this one, and if not him his players who most likely need to a book to re learn how to read
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Vidic's tackle worse than Terry's - what a load of cobblers. Terry rugby tackled Jo. He tried to trip him and then grabbed him around the waist. It was two yellow cards;-) Vidic's first was a trip but a cynical one. Some may be getting confused with his second yellow when going for a header. Which again was not as bad because he was going for the ball - it was more a mistimed header.
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Robbo you don't know what you're talking about.You say a lot of rubbish.Are you sure you're not a chelsea fan?Terry should have been dismissed,i mean the guy is doing a rugby tackle in a football match.you don't need to see any cameras for that!
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Mind you Robbo likes his rugby doesn't he? Maybe harks back to the old days of the middle ages when it was allowed;-)
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Right first off is Fergie being hypocritical?
Yes of course he is, the FA have smoothed things out for Man Utd many a time.
Not only that but the "big 4" bias is simply staggering. Every week they get away with fouls and get decisions go for them if an opposition player so much as blows on them.
Did Terry deserve to be sent off?
I say yes, cynical foul, he clearly did not know that Carvalho was just further back (but still over 20 yards away Chelsea fans still doesn't mean he would have gotten to Jo). To prevent a goal scoring opportunity it doesn't have to be the last man, I think running in on goal with one defender having to run in from the side is a clear goalscoring opportunity.
Should Halsley have been demoted to League Two?
NO, NO, NO lets get one thing right here, he got the decision right! Irrespective of the punishment he should only be demoted for a shockingly bad decision, the decision was correct even if you don't agree with the punishment therefore he should not be punished.
Would this have happened for any team outside the "big 4"?
Again no, look at last year Reading vs Sunderland, Reading were given a goal that didn't cross the line, next week the ref was still in the premiership and there are more examples of this. Look at what happened to Alialdiere for Boro, he had a better case but got an EXTRA ban for wasting the FA's time.
Should Terry have gotten off scot free?
Er no the rules clearly state that the FA cannot reduce a red card to a yellow card. Therefore in order for the FA to completely let Terry off they have to say that it was not even worthy of a yellow card. So rugby tackling someone who would have a clear run on goal (remember Carvalho was off to the side) is not worthy of a yellow card now?
We have seen it with countless players before where they got an undeserved straight red and the FA have said that they can do nothing, except if your John Terry apparently.
Finally look at his reaction afterwards, first he refuses to leave the pitch straight away and stands arguing with the ref then when he FINALLY leaves he makes a mocking 3-1 gesture to the crowd. If this were any other player BOTH of those incidents would warrant EXTRA bans but not John Terry he gets let off scot free.
He is a disgusting individual off the field and a dirty cheat on it, great England Captain material!
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EuroPaddy,
Thanks for the comments? That is of course how it is supposed to be. I am currently in Iraq, workig with the Army and i can tell you that anything said out of order is jumped on. Classed as insubordination and they 'Do' you out here for it. Its different for the RN but this is our job, as it is the managers to manage a team. If we get something wrong, it's not blamed on our bosses, it's blamed on us. We don't go around saying that it was someone else that got it wrong or we failed because so and so couldn't do this or that. If we did, we would forever be in front of the CO, getting fined, etc.
It should be the same for the managers. If the team loses, it's not because of the managers, it's the players. They play the game, they win or lose, they're the ones that get sent off. I am a Pompey supporter and i can admit when Pompey have played badly. If i was the manager and we lost i would say we were bad, i wouldn't blame the ref. Yeah, they do make some bad decisions, but they're human and everyone makes bad ones sometimes. At the end of the day as the slogan goes, No Ref, No Game. Lets lay off them for a bit and blame the players that can't be bothered to run around for 90 mins getting paid what i earn in 6 years.
It sounds harsh but i would love to be paid that amount for serving the country and saving their asses when things go wrong!!
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To Fullofham
"Ferguson is also blessed with the unique ability to order extra time "Until we score"
The other team is also allowed to score as well during this extra time, just that it doesn't happen very often !
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PompeyMilhouse,
I wasn't trying to wind you up - just saying it as I see it. Btw, are you allowed to tell me where you are and what you're doing? I mean, I could be a Russian spy or something...
Just take things in context. In this country, people today can say and do things that they wouldn't have got away with 10 years ago. That's a fact. And it's the same in all of our society, the armed forces included. For example, 20 years ago an AB calling his CPO by first name would have been insubordinate - today it's commonplace. Just as it's commonplace (and therefore accepted) for football managers to wash their dirty laundry in public.
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i think a lot of people are misrepresent how the comment was said in the first place!
he propbably meant that with the Man Utd reputation any appeal would be seen cynicaly
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Hang on. All too prevelant in English football?!?!? How many times do you see an Italian defender scythe through a striker on the halfway line, knowing full well at worst he will get is a yellow card. Better to do it near the centre circle less likely to get a red card that way.
That sort of defending has been around for years. Don't start pointing fingers at English defenders, they aren't intelligent enough to have thought of it.
Also to compare the Guthrie tackle to the Terry one is comical. One was malicious intent to hurt a player (Ben Thatcher style) the other was to prevent a goal scoring opportunity, hardly intent to cause serious harm.
I think some people need to pull their heads out of their biased points of view and realise that sometimes even their rivals get the raw end of the deal.
Guthrie red, fair enough, Vidic two yellows, fair enough, Terry red, harsh! Well done FA for getting it right.
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Europaddy,
I know you were't trying to wind me up.
Yeah it is easier in the forces than what it was 20 years ago...there is however a rule in force with regards to how you call your seniors. An AB still has to call a CPO 'Chief'. The rules states that out of sight of senior Officers, if that Senior Rate is happy with it, you can do first name terms up to 2 ranks above your current rank. This for us is Petty Officer.
I can tell you that i am serving in Iraq, helping on Op Telic, but not much more than that i am afraid. Yes, it seems wierd that the RN are on land with the Army and RAF, but it's now a tri-service environment out here and Afghan!! Thing is it's too hot and i miss the sea! And Fratton Park!!! Not long till i'm home for good though.
I do however think that the FA has to really start cracking down on things that managers say. I was appauled when SAF decided to blame the ref after the FA Cup match when they lost to us. Does he not think that he would get more respect by saying, 'Yeah we were rubbish and Portsmouth fully deserved to win the tie and we wish them luck for the rest of the tournament'?
But what annoys him is that he lost to a smaller club, a team put together, on what would now be classed as a shoestring budget, and is a bad loser!!
My brothers support Man U and i was brought up by them telling me to support Man U. They even took me to Old Trafford, but as i have got older, i am so glad that i don't support them as they think that because they are a 'Big Club' then they should have all decisions going their way.
After all i believe it was Man U that started all this aggro towards the ref a few years back when Roy Keane played for them, and others followed suit.
As for JT and Rio Ferdinand both being up for the England Captaincy, they are NOT good role models to anyone and i think it should've been Stevie G as he wears the heart on his chest with pride everytime he plays.
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Sigh...
I take it Stevenson wrote this?
Look, what Ferguson said was nothing compared to what he and Carlos said after the Portsmouth game.
Why all the fuss?
The BBC ran a piece the other day stating that - under the rules - the decision effectively couldn't be turned over. It has been, and that stinks.
Obviously the timing makes things even more suspicious: Hackett is clearly getting his own back for Ferguson's comments after the FA cup defeat (did us out of another potential treble, think about that).
The referee has been shown no respect by his own peers, he's been demoted and his decision has been overturned. Again, this stinks to high heaven.
Terry, as stated in the above piece, deserved to go. It was as cynical a foul as they come, from a team that hardly need an unfair advantage to win a game.
The man parks his Bently in disabled spots for heaven's sake, he also spits on players in CL finals, what more do you need to know?!
But yeah, Fergy is the bad guy.
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PompeyMilhouse, shouldn't you be catching terrorists, rather than blogging?
You must be pretty happy about Pompey result last night? Barring a disaster that's them into the group stages now. But you must agree, Portsmouth v Benfica just doesn't sound right...
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Should be but am stuck at a desk job!! Am well happy with the result as are all the PFC Supporters out on tour!!
It doesn't sound right but it does sound good!! I might be putting a few quid on them getting to the final when i get back!!
Why not? Stranger things have happened!! (Winning the FA Cup!!)
I would say Pompey v Villa final!! Lets get the English teams through!! Apart from Man U who i hope go out after the group stages!
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The terry tackle may not have been a straight red in the eyes of the law. However, it typifies the problem with JT attitude. He gets beat by the man fair and square yet he can not take this and rugby tackles him.
This is another example of Terry/Chelsea thinking they can take the law into their own hands akin to their moaning constantly at referees about decisions that go against them.
The red card should have stood as the referees interpretation should be final only to be reviewed if it was missed during the game. This will result in more power to the ref and therefore they will receive more respect from players.
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Correct me if I'm wrong here.
But a straight red card cannot be demoted to a yellow on appeal. So, to get Terry's ban lifted they had to prove that the foul did not warrant a yellow card to get the decision reversed.
Terry's foul was at least a yellow card, so how do they justify the decision?
I hope, on this basis, Lewis Hamilton's penalty he suffered in Bulgaria gets reversed. By the same rules, a pit lane run through pentalty cannot be appealed against, but because of the lap it was on it was turned into a 25 second penalty.
On the same basis, Hamilton should get off the hook.
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I'm sorry #13? Because Fergie is an all-time great manager, we should allow him to undermine referee's and intimidate officials for future games?? In case the next team he plays might get a result against him??
What a load of codswallop! I, as a non-league player and league 2 supporter am fed-up of the treatment of refs at the highest level, which in turn leads to the abuse of refs at all levels - even by parents at schoolboy matches.
The worst example recently was when David Moyes, who was sent-off for abusing the ref, was told his punishment should be reduced because "actually it should have been a penalty". ARE THESE PEOPLE STUPID? DON'T THEY UNDERSTAND THE POINT??!!
The referee needs to be respected, right or wrong. The FA needs to back them 100%.
A referee should only be demoted after observing his performance over a number of games - not made a scapegoat for a single bad (?!) decision.
btw, is the premiership the only important league? If Halsey is such a bad ref, what have the league 2 teams done to deserve him???
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In other news I was pleasantly surprised at Scolari - he didn't seem to have a problem with it, maybe he's into appearing nice as pie in the media and then being exactly like mourinho (win is a win mentality) in private but I was at least fooled into having a positive impression of a Chelsea manager for once
as for JT - the idea of him or any chelsea player fronting a 'respect' campaign is ridiculous, if he openly admitted that he had been a very naughty boy in the past then I might give him a bit more of a go, but oh no, it's just a problem in the game as a whole - hence why chelsea were the only big 4 in at the wrong end of the fair play league last year..
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Another of Fergie's annoying utterances is his complaint about big crowds getting decisions such as Liverpool last week and Arsenal last season.
He seems to forget who gets the highest crowds for half of their matches.
In case this is another of his misunderstood rants, I would just add that the implication is that Man U are not really as good as it would seem.
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#15 mightySpursToby
Perhaps your forgetting that Vidic didnt get a straight red card, he got 2 yellow cards which were deserved as 1 was for a professional foul(as last man as well) and the other was for a clear leading elbow againstXabi Alonso!!! You say he shouldnt have been red carded when in realtiy he could well have recieved 2 red cards!!
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45 - for clarity, Terry was sent off for serious foul play - using excessive force or brutality
yes you cannot downgrade a red to a yellow, or vice versa
however 'serious foul play' is a sending off offence - if you are guilty of it, you receive a straight red - the FA have decided he wasn't - however any reasonable person would say that was a cautionable offence and it was worthy of a yellow, but you cannot downgrade the offence he was sent off for, so no yellow is available, so therefore he is cleared, and no one will bother to suggest giving him a retrospective caution, except us
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Irrespective of the opinion in this piece, it's amazing how many facts you got wrong Robbo....
1) Vidic was sent off for two yellow cards. There is no appeal for such a dismissal, irrespective of whether "they realise it themselves"
2) Terry was not sent off for denying a goalscoring opportunity. If you actually read any of the reports (even the ones on the BBC website - do you bother to read your colleague's articles, or just make everything up yourself?) you'd know that Terry was sent off for "serious foul play" - in which case the presence of a covering defender is irrelevant.
It's also surprising how little has been written about Chelsea surrounding the referee (again) and Terry refusing to leave the field of play. So much for the 'respect' agenda - from the club most obviously in need of adhering to it.
Ferguson's comments are unfortunate, and shouldn't be tolerated - if he actually made them, unlike the recent example where no-one could actually find any evidence of him saying it, despite being reported in all the media
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"Vidic's two bookings were entirely justified"
Robbo,
Did you watch that game? Probably not by the sounds of it. Vidic should have walked after the first offence!!
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I thought we were meant to be respecting the referees? Not much of an example when the FA can't respect their own employees decisions? If the FA won't back the ref's decision, why should we expect the managers and players to? Just so we are clear, JT is now allowed to haul down any player he pleases? By the way, how is Vidic's appeal going?
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Tarquin-
I see you have totally missed the point!
As stated "it may not have been a straight red inthe eyes of the law".
That we continually undermine referees by taking away their power. Referees with no power will not get respect. Its not that difficult to comprehend!
The laws of the game constantly change because players are constantly finding loopholes. Common sense is required, it?s a game of football not a caught of law, please.
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Incidentally, I have long wondered about the use of the word 'cynical' when used to describe tackles in football ever since that old sage James Hill coined it back in 1902 or so.
To be cynical is the same as a sneer, what this has to do with tackling I will never know, it is an idea or a thought not an action.
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The problem in these situations is that we must be able to analyse the events without taking into effect our like/dislike for the protagonist.
In this case John Terry.
Is he an unpleasant nasty piece of work? Yes.
Was it a red card?
On reflection, probably Not.
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It doesn't matter that he wasn't the last man as the red card was given for serious foul play. Given that he cynically rugby tackled a player to stop them froom scoring i'm pretty certain that is serious foul play. The ref gave it and as far as i am aware stood by his decision after the game so why is hackett over-ruling?
Secondly if you seriously think that Ferguson was simply throwing his toys out of the pram your not the brightest button in the box my friend. More likely is that he's assessed the situation and decided to firstly draw attention away from his sides recent performances. Secondly it will influence the referee on sunday (whether in utds favour or not we will have to wait and see). Everyone knows Fergie plays mind games so why is it when he starts doing it everyone claims he's childish and spoilt?
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I don't think there is a problem at all with Wenger and Fergie challenging the refs, as Scolari said the refs are treated like God, by that he meant they're not allowed to be questioned and that is not right at all.
Hackett is a clown and everyone knows it. The fact that he rescinded Terry's straight red is the perfect example. And people saying that it was only a yellow are failing to see what really happened in the challenge.
It's got nothing to do with him not being the last man, and it taking place in the centre circle, it's to do with the fact that Terry rugby tackled the guy in the middle of a football match. Vidic made his foul intentionally just as Terry did but didn't resort to taking the player out, he stuck his leg out and barely touched him, as I recall Keane was it it, actually dived over his leg to avoid getting crunched, plus he wasn't the last man. And as for his 2nd yellow, as Fergie rightly said after the game, Skrtl was making those kind of challenges on our front men all game, so why does Vidic get a yellow for it when we don't even get a free kick? The referee should answer to that, not insinuating that the ref is bias, but simply giving Fergie and the rest of us a good reason and explanation for his dodgy decisions.
So how that red card was cancelled is beyond me, and new laws need to come into the game where referees need to explain themselves for every decison they make, and all this new "respect" campaign for refs needs to be shown to the players as well as managers also.
Refs are not gods!
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55 gavin_cox
unfortunately respect must be earnt - the line of taking the ref's decision as final when he is blatantly wrong is to me a foolish one, we all know of examples of a ref having a 'mare - it is a simple reality and will rile the fans and the pundits, nobody wants to see a wrong decision (bar obvious exceptions)
the referee needs to be respected to stop teams like chelsea doing what they do - however what i feel they should have done is rather than remove the telescreens from the dugouts, they shouldve given them to another official who can advise the referee - then there would be no argument - stop chelsea whinging about it and then book them for protesting if they do
to me the ref saying "fair cop, i got it wrong" and setting it right once in a while smacks of far more authority than when they give an awful decision and have to defend themselves from a weak position for the rest of the game and afterwards will then be subjected to retrospective analysis by the FA, which will undermine them
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On the more significant matter of Chewits, there was an advert in the 80s showing a dinosaur eating loads of skyscrapers, didn't the voiceover say something about Barrow in Furness bus depot, or is it just me being daft?
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I am a United fan, and we are not all whinging about this decision as some seem to think. Fergie is playing his mind games as usual it has nothing to do with what he actually believes. The most surprising thing is that after so many years so many people still get wound up by the master of media manipulation! Reporters, managers and opposition fans should just stop biting, cos as long as you do Fergie will keep chucking his lines out.
On a secondary note regarding the Terry challenge. As the rules stand the foul was not a red card offence, however personally I would like to see all challenges that take cynicism to that level punished with a red card. It is something you see a lot in the Italian Serie A, teams will commit men heavily at set pieces then leave one man back (who hasn't been booked) who will foul his opponent at the first sign of a break. By not being more severe on this level of cynical behaviour we run the risk of losing what for me makes English football so great to watch, the pace of our games. By punishing these tackles with yellow cards we may end up slowing our game down to the sort of pace you see in Italy.
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WIGHT88
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7YOXn32nmM
No mention of Barrow, unless there's a different ad...
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Ofcourse Terry shouls have been red carded - he deliberatley stopped his opponent with an arm around his waist - OFF OFF OFF ! - No If's or buts. You don't appear to know the rules of the game sir !
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Firstly, I believe Vidic deserved to be dismissed, so lets get past that. I believe Terry also deserved to be sent off for serious foul play. But even if Halsey was wrong and it wasnt justified, what right to the FA have to completely undermine a referee and wave his decision? Not much respect for referees there.....
Also, wrong decisions happen all the time (and sometimes even lead to goals that shouldnt have been allowed to stand). You just have to accept it like any other club would, and GET ON WITH THE GAME. Typical Chelski...
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Each day we are treated to yet another gem from the "Victor Meldrew" clone that is Alex Ferguson....Nothing is beyond the pale when it's suits him......He continually undermines the game of football at every level by his unbalanced views on the match officials...and his blatant hypocritical comments when it comes to criticising other managers and teams......I along with many who love the game will breath a huge sigh of relief when he finally shuffles over the horizon.....
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Referees are biased - but in favour of Manchester United (and the other Big Bore teams).
And its time and again, year in, year out.
Don't believe me? Ask the fans of every other team in the land.
Whenever Wenger / Ferguson / Scolari / Benitez go on about officials it just makes me laugh.
Truly pathetic.
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I'm sorry but even if I wasn't a United fan I think I'm old enough now to take a non partisan stance on incidents like this.
Terry should and was sent off, the same people blathering on about respect for ref's totally disrespected the ref and overturned his decision.
Why? Hackett has it in for Ferguson after the pompey fa cup debacle.
Ferguson spoke the truth, and considering we're just about the play Chelsea you cannot blame him for his mild outburst.
End of.
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Letting JT come out of this situation like an angel shows how stupid the F.A. has become these days.
Indeed mark Halsey made a mistake but the cynicism of the foul would draw a mistake out of any well meaning soccer disciplinarian.
Cant the F.A. use special discretion in such a unique situation? Shame indeed.
I do wonder what sort of example JT sets to upcoming youngsters. He nicks refs cards from under their noses and howls at them for doing their job. Yet he walks scot-free time and again.
As for fergie, Shut Up!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
As Jose Mourinho once said, "There is no pressure on United. If they play well, they win. If they don't play well, they will get a penalty and still win." And time after time, I've witnessed the above, in addition to fergie's watch-tapping antics if United aren't ahead. Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal get nowhere near as many decisions their way as United do, and for Ferguson to claim they're victimised is a joke. They even got away with a dubious medical for a certain Bulgarian that would have seen other clubs punished.
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Terry's challenge was a caculated proffesional foul as far as i'm concerned, Jo did him up like a kipper and Terry knew exactly what he was doing, and if he hadn't held him back it could have been a clear goal scoring opportunity.
I recall seeing Kevin Horlock get sent off for city for aggressive walking, and that was never overruled. The inconsistancy of the FA is a major problem. Whatever the referee's decision is during the game should stand and they all equal out over the course of a season. It's one rule for one, and one rule for the other.
I dislike Fergie immensely but even I see his point.
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23. At 09:23am on 19 Sep 2008, mightySpursToby wrote:
"Terry, Vidic - yellow cards were sufficient"
Are you real? Vidic off for FIRST offence, Terry yellow - no doubt!
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These last few comments are just showing me how Man U fans have tunnel vision that their team does no wrong!!
Should Terry of been red carded? Definately.
BUT.....
The FA have cancelled out the Red Card and now he can play against Man U. There is nothing that anyone can do about it!!
Should Vidic of been Yellow carded twice?
Definately.
The FA have stood by this and he misses the match, but guaranteed he won't of learnt his lesson and will do it again!!
Think he may turn out to be the foreign version of Joey Barton!!
To be honest, after SAF comments i would happily like to see JT score the winning goal in injury time that SAF has been tapping his watch at the ref to add on!!
And before anyone says anything...I don't like JT as a person or a player, but it would just be amusing to a neutral!
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There needs to be a system implemented where if an appeal is unsuccessful then the initial ban is doubled, if this was the case I doubt JT would have even appealed.
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Tarquin-
As you must surely appreciate in order to be refereeing a premiership game a ref has developed through a structure that has enabled him to progress to the top level of the refereeing pyramid. Surely if a ref is constantly having ?having a ?mare? he would never reach the top, which is the same for players.
Are you suggesting that referees are picked at will and have to ?earn respect? over a period of games?
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The initial point was that removing power from the referees results in there being no respect from players. Does one feel that the decision by the FA will make JT show more respect on the pitch???
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As a man utd fan i am bais but i understand what fergie is saying...Terrys Red was never a red but under FA rules you cant down grade a red card to a yellow the only way for Terry to get off was to say that he should not of been booked for the rugby tackle on Jo. Terrys was a Yellow card tackle but the ref gave a harsh red but for hackett to say that the tackle didnt even warrent a yellow is just silly.
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Correct me if I'm wrong. But in the case of an appealed dismissal, such as that of John Terry's this week. Any straight red card shown to a player cannot be downgraded to a yellow card.
Thus, for an appeal to be successful the defendant must prove to the committee that their offence was such that it did not even merit a caution.
I have heard this rule mentioned several times in the past. Though I can't actually find written evidence of it. If this is the case, then surely JT's red card could not have been rescinded.
Blatantly, taking down an opposing player (ie. Jo), by grabbing him around the mid-rif and hauling him to the ground to prevent him steaming through on goal is worthy of a yellow card at least. Yes, I am aware he wasn't the last man, but it was still a cynical foul. Which deserved to be punished. Perhaps not with a dismissal, but at least with something.
Now, I do not like John Terry, in fact I can think of fewer players I dislike more..... Ashley Cole, that's it. But I'm more interested in the particulars of the rules here than being biased against JT.
Also, you could guarantee that if the Hull or Stoke centre-half had been dismissed for a similar offence, they'd still be suspended this weekend.
Any thoughts?
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Vidic reacted late due to slightly bad positioning and therefore mistimed a standard tackle, which he then decided not to pull out of.
This resulted in a deliberate trip on Keane, with Vidic as the last man, this was a professional foul and should have been a straight red card, and off you go Nemanja.
Terry, Howver, committed a much worse offence in my view.
Technically, was he the defender closest to his own goal? No.
Technically, did he seriously endanger the opposition player? No.
But Terry displayed such serious and cynical petulance, unsportsmanlike conduct, and arrogance (not to mention his later dissent to the referee), that his actions were correctly interpreted by Mark Halsey as 'serious foul play'. The sanction for serious fould play is a red card.
He also incorprated a rugby tackle into a game of football and the FA have now set a precedent that rugby tackling and dissent are permitted in Premier League football.
They have made a mockery of their own 'respect' agenda and a rod for their own back when it comes to punishing rugby tackles, shirt pulling and raised hands.
Both Vidic and Terry should have received straight red cards. The fact that Vidic received only a second yellow and that Terry had his card rescinded is a disgrace. Ally these to the lack of further punishment for Guthrie's assault and the predictable dominance of the big four and the Premier League becomes a hideous, corrupt sideshow.
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the guy who wrote this is definetly no Man U fan or a fan of alex mocking a man thats been the manager in english football for a long time but you go on about respecting the ref ok then John Terry shouldnt of had his red card overturned i think a rugby tackle serious foul play so i think a red card was right
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We can bat and forth whether JT deserved a red card all day - my point is that Ferguson chooses to interpret the decision to rescind the card as evidence of the authorities somehow spiting him. It's so bloody juvenile. I don't like Terry much either, but that's nothing to do with it. WE could argue about Vidic's intentions but not that the red card wasn't deserved - and it could have been a straight red, yes.
It would just be good if Taggart could stay out of such things cos it's nowt to do with him.
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Great article Robbo, absolutely Spot on.
I can't believe all these fans that disagree with it.
It was a soft red card. It got rescinded get over it.
All these people sprouting how it was DEFINITELY a red card, obviously have no idea about football (or the english language). You can make an argument that he should have been sent off, but its not definitive - you can easily make an argument for why it should not have been.
Vidic's challenge was much more clear cut (attacker closer to the goal, vidic clearly last man), so was even more deserving of a red card.
You can't knock Fergies record, but honestly, he could grow up a bit.
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Hackett is a clown who gets paid a lot of money for doing very little.... Does the FA want to charge me with something now?? Question 1: Did Terry deserve to be booked for his challenge? In all honesty yes he did so regardless of the colour of the card the referee was correct in booking him although to most people the red card was harsh. In granting the successful appeal the FA and Hackett have made a mockery of what they were supposed to be trying to achieve and Terry should also have been charged for failure to leave the pitch in a reasonable time after being sent off which in itself constitutes a 3 match ban doesnt it? Question 2: Is Sir Alex the only manager ever to criticise the FA and Hackett? No he most certainly isnt is he.. Wenger recieved no punishment for demanding that Taylor be banned for life after the birmingham game!! Question 3: How come no one has managed to answer the pre season red card that rooney got last year that everyone was expecting the FA to quash but they upheld it as a way of having a pop at Sir Alex?? There are very few of you on here with a damned clue what you are talking about which explains the OT penalty issue some idiot brought up a short time ago (you need to be in the penalty area in order to get a penalty and in view of the fact United were not given two stonewall penalties on wednesday and not given another obvious one against pompey last year in the FA cup, the two most memorable that spring to mind, might i suggest that before you make such statements a little research may help).. To finish.... mugs
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alex ferguson - or any other manager for that manner - does not have a moral obligation to only make comments that are completely fair, unbiased and unquestionable. it's a competition, of COURSE his comments will reflect his loyalties and allegiances. he wants his team to win so he can say ridiculous things to glorify them if he wants. he has no incentive to praise other teams or agree with decisions against united. he can say what he wants and you can disagree but really, he doesn't care. it's a competition and he wants united to be on top in every aspect, and his comments reflect this. everyone is biased, they're paid to be after all.
to achieve the things that fergie has, you need to be driven and unstoppably strong-willed. it got him where he is today and i wouldn't expect him to suddenly start saying "you know, chaps, actually i'm wrong, ok?"
no. his stubborn refusal to accept being anything but the best has been the source of his - and united's - success.
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I find the above article sarcastic, cheap and totally without the humour the writer so obviously and pathetically intended.
We have seen enough on TV during the last seven days to convince even the most ardent supporter of respect and discipline that the majority of referee's are incompetent and unable to read the game as it happens.
The real problem lies with the total lack of recourse following poor decision making. Since when did a referee get fined £5000. Since when did a company, the football club, having been the subject of a financially debilitating decision, take legal recourse to recover both points and lost income.
Those who state that it levels itself out over a season are to say the least, Stupid ! Whilst the Ostrich like Blazers bury their heads into the sand their knobbly knee naive whistle blowers run around week after week playing headmasters in a multi million pound business they hardly understand and in essence costing the industry both prestige and serious money.
Four grown men incapable of calculating the TIME is quite beyond comprehension. Terry having his red card rescinded, again, beyond any sensible reasoning, it is a farce and were it not so financially serious, laughable.
When one considers punishments handed out to the likes of Luton, Bournemouth and Rotherham, whilst players who could buy and sell those clubs get away with a five grand fine for criminal assault, then it is time for some very serious changes at the top of the game. The whole administration is morally bankrupt and most certainly incompetent, requiring root and branch pruning to say the very least.
The technology is there to sort out the bad decision making, it is quick and 90% efficient and should be brought into play at the earliest. Why leave it to the television companies, which by their timing is too late and causes further resentment. Video replay is fast becoming a necessity and the sooner the better.
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I also think everyone here is biased to some degree which ever way you look at it.
All anyone?s asks for is consistency from the refs and the FA.
Let me take you back to earlier on in the year when Aliadiere got a red card after aiming a 'slap' at Mascherano and on having his appeal rejected got an extra match ban for appealing. Then there?s Viera's 6 match ban for spitting. Both classed as violent conduct but an assault with the legs is justifiable.
What's all that about? Reversing JT's red card has just made a mockery of a ref?s decision as the FA clearly are not showing continuous consistency.
It also shows a difference in opinion to the rules of the game which need to be defined correctly and consistently across the board.
Surely we should take lead from other sports and introduce a 3rd/4th official who can look at these situations and decide there and then what should be done which would then put an end to controversy, talk of biasedness and what's right or wrong.
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Robbo,
Great blog, very accurate on all accounts. Mr. Ferguson has been a legend for a long, long time and you can not doubt his legacy, but in essence I'm sick and tired of this garbage. You watch Ferguson on the sidelines and his team are strugling and then the anger rises, the berating starts, Utd did not get a throw-in and its the end of the world. Is it all about manipulation? Or is Mr. Ferguson trying to find a Blackcurrent Chewit under the seat on the coach? Because in reality he has found plenty of Chewit's (Mendes scoring from 40 yards at Old Trafford. How many penalty kicks at Old Trafoord for opposing teams in the last 10 years?).
Yes, RESPECT starts at the top. The Terry sending off has been recinded, bloody live with it!!
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in response to post 79.
"If a Hull city or Stoke Defender committed the tackle they wouldn't be playing this week"
I as a Boro fan can 100% agree with that statement, and not only would they not be playing this week they would have had their bans extended for a "Frivolous" appeal see the case of Aliadiare last term.
The F.A are there for one reason and one reason only. to keep the big four happy.
As for Fergie never getting any favours from the F.A????? nuff said.....
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I'm disappointed in Ferguson's remarks about Hackett, I think anyone who talks of referee's being biased are just talking drivel, the great Sir Alex being no exeption.
However, some people seem to be acting like it's the only time it's ever happened, weakly using the new respect campaign to 'disgrace' him.
Even some people who say Terry should not have had a red concede that it is their is some argument there to say it should of been, even after seeing replay after replay. So why is Halsey being demoted to League 2? Tim Lovejoy on 606 radio was saying "surely common sense has prevailed", I just can't agree.
When seeing Terry bringing Jo down in the manner he did, I can certainly understand why Halsey thought he should be off, and I can't see why Hackett didn't come to this conclusion either?
He may be ok to judge the charade on the slow-mo, but who's to say Hackett himself wouldn't of given a red at the time?
I think it was serious foul play, (which in the law is a straight red) as I think diving in the box to try and win a penalty, is serious foul play (which although doesn't warrant a straight red these days, I think it should do). An action, I believe, doesn't need to be just 'dangerous' to come under this scope, but serious 'cheating' should aswell; and I believe John Terry's challenge was a perfect combination of both.
If you want to talk about respecting referee's, as you say Robbo, lets start from the top, and unlike you, I mean the very top.
Let's start by the FA respecting their own referee's decisions, before expecting the players to do the same.
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I can't believe some of the stuff I am reading on here today. How on earth can the FA be there to keep the big four happy? That is such a ridiculous and laughable comment with no substance.
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As a qualified referee the rules state there are seven ways to be sent off, JT was sent off for blocking an obvious goal scoring oppotunity.
Now when Jo was fouled he was closer to the half way line than the 22 yard mark of the 'D' and there were two Chelsea defenders in front of him. Not an obvious goal scoring oppotunity. Therefore the red card was rescinded.
The FA couldn't change charge because there is nothing he can be charged for. Violent conduct isn't an option, the foul was cynical but not violent. Serious foul play can't be used because it wasn't a serious challenge, as said before it was cynical but not enough to to warrant a serious foul.
However this challenge does come under the yellow card quota of 'Unsporting Behavior' as he unsportingly hauled Jo to the ground, it wasn't serious foul play or violent conduct.
Therefore his appeal was successfull because the referee didn't follow the rules as specified in the referee's handbook, not because Chelsea can carry weight over the FA.
Those people who don't believe me, buy a handbook for referees they generally help determine the rules of football in a simple way. Maybe Alex Ferguson should invest some money in buying one, it may save him a lot of money from the fines the FA are going to hand him for his big gob.
Good article as always Robbo.
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What the decision to overturn Mark Halsey's red card does seem to do, even if those nincompoops at the FA did not intend it, is to make a mockery of the Respect Campaign
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and yes I know it was a nominally independent panel that overturned the decision but the FA will still get the blame in the eyes of most people (me included)
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"Respect the ref? Let's start at the top, shall we? "
not just the FA but FIFA and UEFA as well
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What is this blog about i cant be bothered to read all of robbo's talk
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Blueboy1889 - I understood that the reason Halsey reported for Terry being sent off was for Serious Foul Play. I also understood the argument he and Hackett had was because the match report contained this reason. Hackett felt it could not be supported and Halsey refused to budge.
Good blog Robbo, huge debate. I am always amazed how different people see things differently. Though most agree with you view on Fergie, his comments were calculated and I believe he would not have made them if they weren't playing Chelsea next. Give him due respect, Man U avoided defeat.
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