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Juggler

Listed below are comments made by Juggler between Monday, 24th November 2008 and Tuesday, 9th December 2008.

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Obamanomics 9:49pm on 09 Dec 2008 Derek, doesn't it bother you that you come on here every day and get laughed at by people that clearly understand economics vs you who thinks intelligent wit is to spout nonesense and cheap jibes?

I am sure you want to be taken seriously, why else post on here right? Maybe start reading a bit about what we are talking about. You may.. just may be able to try and defend your beloved Labour party.
I say this because it must make you feel a bit bad that you are arguing against people who clearly have done their homework.
But then something tells me this isn't the first instance in your life where this has happened.
Obamanomics 9:30pm on 09 Dec 2008 Oh and finally, Nick do you suggest that we follow an American model? I thought your mates at NuLabour told us they got us into this mess in the first place? And now we must look at them for answers? This surely doesn't make sense even to the simplest of souls?
Obamanomics 9:26pm on 09 Dec 2008 Isn't it funny how people that come on here defending Labour never, ever come up with reasons why Brown's dealing of the economic crisis is the right way? No. What they do is come on here and maon about the 80s, about mean Tories, and how any bias from Nick is paranoia by a Tory blogging mob. Well the blog here is open for everyone to respond, so feel free Labour bloggers to do the same. The difference between the reactions is that at least the 'opposition' weighs in with sound arguments. The defenders? Well they post a one line, maybe two if we are lucky, about how bad it will be under a Tory government. Well let me see, can it get any worse? For people with long memories (and I myself am under 40 but I can read back) the situation now must be quite familiar. A Labour government who has spent the kitty and is now trying to cling on to power. We have a biased media backing him up and polls that are all over the shop. In the meantime, European leaders are less interested in claiming a "world saviour" persona, and more interested in getting out of the recession. Sadly for us, they of course also managed to save during the boom and are more likely to get out of this sooner than the UK will. So we are back to the 70s. UK is the poor man of Europe yet again and a deficit that would make any sane person cry.
5 more years of Brown to me will be unacceptable and I will emigrate (and happily so). I simply see no other option if I want to spend the time with a young family in a country where I feel kids can grow up the way they should.

As for Nick, well I am sure he took a well deerved break. Maybe he even switched off his mobile to stop the calls from number 10. I am not at all surprised this is the kind of blog we get. Nick hasn't really been his usual self for a while (almost to the day that Campbell and Mandy came back). Of course from the outside, Europe thinks we are mad. Well we are certainly being governed by what only can be described as a madhouse.
I worry, I really do. But if this goes on, then I (and quite a few people I know who are thinking the same thing) am off.
Serious questions to answer 6:28pm on 03 Dec 2008 Nick that last sentence, I am sure you are winding us up and want the page impressions. There can be no other explanation otherwise. Unless you suggest that this is entirely justified to stop leaks? In which case, I probably won't bother reading your blg anymore.
The sanctity of the Commons 6:17pm on 29 Nov 2008 And Charles, do you ever take a break from being on here? Don't answer that. We all know you don't. (And I still scroll over your posts don't worry).
The sanctity of the Commons 6:16pm on 29 Nov 2008 The funnist thing about this thread is the labour supporters trying to defend this and pretend there is an excuse for this. That amuses me no end.
Nick you are in a difficult position. On one hand you have HQ on the phone, on the other you have us shouting at you.

But as for leaks, when Peston was told several things during the Corfu enquiry that were backing up Rothshild's claims or when you and Peston both were told that the 18.5% VAT idea were dropped, weren't they not leaks? Or is it okay to leak if it is coming from Labour but not if the leak falls in teh hand of the Tories? Brown, as many mentioned, lived on leaks before he unfortunatly managed to get a job in the government. But as everything with Gordon: Do as I say, don't do as I do. The BBC as a news organisation is dead. I have actually started watching ITN. If I want to watch state sanctioned news, I will move to Zimbabwe thank you.
End of Thatcher's tax incentives 9:10pm on 25 Nov 2008 Scandinavian tinge? Robert are you ill? This country can only DREAM to be anything like those countries. You also cannot compare the UK with Scandinavia. First and foremost it doesn't have a chancellor wasting billions on waste. It has higher taxes (like the rest of Northern Europe) which pays for schooling and hospitals (that are of good standard) I should know, I enjoyed the greats of the North of Europe for a long time.
Don't for a minute try and make us think we are now moving to a model (a very successful one) like they operate there. This is a move back to Old Labour. The poor man of Europe. Hence in 1970s we were seen as that and the rest of Europe moved on. We had to have the 80s to catch up and they have managed to save in the boom where we went out and spent the lot.
Peston when I se you on telly I am surprised I cannot see Campbell with his hand in your face moving your lips because you may as well admit you are not biased at all?
Darling's big gamble 8:49pm on 25 Nov 2008 Amazing. The Spectator article someone posted before is spot on. Repeat the fact the Tories will do nothing (a lie, but then this is Brown and Campbell orchestrating this) and some fools will believe you. Cooper (fix your hair love) didn't defend the budget on newsnight, no she spent the entire interview pointing (how common) to the Tory saying that THEY would do nothing. I wanted Good Old Vince to lay into her more but he is not a man to score purely political points. The tide however is that amongst many people I know, there is a sense that they will not be voting Labour. And these are working class to higher earners. Brown is the main issue. Apart from his appaling record (which I kindly explained to a group of them) he is off putting to voters. The question is, what will the Tories do. They have heavyweights like Clarke and Hague who should step up and weigh into the debate. There are still people that make apologies for the government without understanding basic economics. Some actually believe it is a natural cycle. Again I worked in Europe a lot and the governments of the Netherlands, Germany hell even Spain all manage to introduce fiscal stimuli because they managed to hold on to a surplus in the boom. The Dutch announce when there is money left over (that happens there) and explain to their people that it will go into their savings. They are prudent. Not Brown. No matter who is at the helm there, they stick to a spending and saving plan.
That is why those countries will recover and this country won't.

But Brown has it easy. He has messed up enough so the Tories if they win, will get into trouble and if Brown wins (and I am off to another country) he has 5 years to raise tax and then drop them again before an election takes place.

Brown is not in it for you and me, he is in it because he wants to keep the job. We are talking about a man that has spent ten years trying to get Blair (how I miss him! Unbelievaby) out of the top seat so you don't think he will let something like a recession and the largest debt in peace time hold him back do you?
Why do you think he brought Mandeleson back? And Campbell and that God awful Derek Draper? (well they are all awful).

When Mandelson was messing up the Lions tour in 2005, the players nicknamed him Sebastian (after Little Britain's character). He hated it and was always the butt of the joke. This man is now yet again powerful in the British government.
The BBC I think has been the worst disapointment for me. I am a staunch defender of it but have been so completely let down by their coverage. They really have run scared since the kelly case (and let's not mention the fact alistair Campbell still has the audacity to show his face) and are incapable of even appearing biased.

So. A tory government in 2010? Well if I were the BBC I'd be scared.
Darling's big gamble 9:32pm on 24 Nov 2008 50- Oh I can't give you the year but it was well before I was born (in fact before most here were born). Certainly Brown's reputation for prudence was largely based on the healthy economy he inherited in 1997. The funny thing is I discuss these matters with friends. Some are very clearly Labour voters and the sad thing is there is no reasoning with them when you point out just how much their government has messed up. You can explain that a large part of the crisis is Brown's work and through his failings and it doesn't register. You can argue that the ecomomy was in greatshape in1997, that there was a big surplus and Britain has Europe's largest pension fund. It won' t matter. I am not Tory or Lib Dem, I will vote on who I think is right for that time but I am staggered at the sheer stupidity of some people whose only argument is to dig Thatcher up. You think this is how the rest of Europe chose their governments? By looking back?
No. An obsession with the Thatcher years, and an obsession with who is a toff and who isn't is stagnating any progress we as a society have to make. Do I care about what the damage will be? Well in the short term yes. In the long term no as I will be moving abroad with my husband in a few years.
But this country is going to be very bad for a long time. Back to being the sick man of Europe. And this after again a Labour government. You had your 11 year party, now the bill has arrived and no one can pay. You can keep your biased BBC, your spin and lies and your PM that thinks he can get away by lying to us all.

One more thing. The USA kicked out a president that had brought the country to its knees financially. That courted the large spenders in the city and that started an illegal war. We were all rejoicing here. But will we kick out our own government who did all this and more?

Well I am not sure people are clever enough to understand the level of debt Brown has gotten us into.
Pre-Budget report reaction 9:21pm on 24 Nov 2008 "And some people are so stupid they can't even tell the difference between a question mark and an apostrophe!!!!

So we will excuse your economic and political ignorance." Bill that is an HTML fault when you copy and paste (as I posted it somewhere else). But good to see you yourself offer really constructive criticism. Oh wait.. you can't. Because as usual with you lot it's the: Oh yeah well at least Brown isn't a Tory! as if that is of course a constructive debate. Grow up and when you can debate with the adults, maybe tell us what you think has happened to get where we are now. One tip: I lived and worked in Europe, you know where they have governments who managed to retain a surplus in the good years!

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