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lacerniagigante

Listed below are comments made by lacerniagigante between Monday, 23rd November 2009 and Tuesday, 1st December 2009.

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The fear of minarets 07:40am on 01 Dec 2009 104. At 06:19am on 01 Dec 2009, democracythreat wrote:

"I reflect that it high time we re-evaluate whether "religious freedom" is a legitimate aspiration in a modern and civilized world. I would happily see religious practice reclassified as a privilege, and not a right. Like driving, if you can't do it responsibly, then you lose the privilege."

Fair, but then banning the minaret (or other religious building for that matter) amounts to banning the motorway to shield us from the danger bad drivers... Just trying to follow your logic (personally, the less religious symbols I see around me, whatever religion, including the silly Christmas frenzy, the happier I am).
The fear of minarets 07:35am on 01 Dec 2009 Banning the minarets rings a bell or two.

Despite the depressive result, I think there are two positive aspects of this vote:

1. religious symbols have to become more private: if you ban minarets, then you must also ban other religious manifestations, including non-Muslim ones, if you don't want to be "unfair",

2. it makes us aware of the amount of closet Nazis hiding behind the mask of "democratic legitimacy" (remember how the Nazis won democratic elections)...

3. it's good this happened in Switzerland and not in some other country, say Spain. As Graham Greene noted some time ago, 500 years of peace and Cuckoo clocks are better left at their dullness, but imagine the economic disaster of destroying the Alhambra mosques to make some right-wingers happy.

4. those "Muslims" so upset now, calling for a Boycott, should take inspiration from this. Instead of going to Geneva/Zürich downtown to binge spend, the Arab sheikhs should go to those 4 villages which still have a minaret to spend their money. Soon you will see that those anti-immigration Swiss (money walks...) will change idea.
The fear of minarets 6:05pm on 30 Nov 2009 "2. At 11:12am on 30 Nov 2009, Gheryando wrote:

Imagine an idyllic Swiss village, surrounded by the glorious Alps, in which its people have lived and have had their ways for hundreds of generations.

Then imagine a minaret in the centre of it."

You remind me of my last trip to Switzerland.

I visited Gruyères, where I took a walk on the main street, towards the high ground and behind a nice swiss cottage the monster appeared!

It wasn't exactly a minaret, but it was as Alien as it could be. In fact, it was Alien's monster.

Strangely, I haven't heard anyone complaining about siting Gieger's museum (Gieger being the artist that has designed the Alien monster).
Europe's top jobs 12:50pm on 28 Nov 2009 FJ, just to back my previous post with some data about a widespread British misunderstanding of the EU's working on which UKIP et alia like to cash, I'm copy-pasting from Eurobarometer report 274:

"When asked to estimate the UK’s net contribution to the EU budget, only 6% of respondents said it was below 3% of GNI (the actual figure is 0.21% (2007)). On average, respondents estimated that the UK transferred, annually, 23% of GNI to the EU. Just under half of respondents (48%) did not or could not answer."

At least, half of respondents admit they don't know. But it is staggering to see that many are proud of their ignorance. You seem to perpetuate this in your arguments by claiming that EU handouts are an essential reason for being or not the EU. Besides being offensive, your comment is completely irrelevant because it means that such members as Sweden, Austria, Denmark, Germany, Netherlands, France should stay out of the union.

In fact, since you seem to be a great Game Theory expert (at least judging from some words "zero-sum", "2 vs. 3 player", etc. you like to use in your lengthy posts), so from a Game Theoretical perspective, if cashing/paying would be the only incentive/non-incentive to join the EU, then the EU could have at most one member.
Europe's top jobs 12:37pm on 28 Nov 2009 4. At 1:59pm on 27 Nov 2009, Freeborn-John wrote:

"1. In a majority of countries, EU subsidies are the main reason for EU membership. The UK, however, is a net contributor to the EU budget, so this is an argument for withdrawal."

Oh dear. You may be freeborn, but you surely are slow in getting it. This net contribution has been debunked many times. Before you regurgitate UKIP myth nonsense, have you looked at the amount of money involved? Britain contributes 15£/person/year.

Compare this with what you pay for local council taxes and then ask yourself whether it's more worthy to put effort in reforming the UK as such, or constantly pulling in and out of the EU as if it were some kind of umbrella you use when it's raining and close when it's dry.

And, assuming for a second that the UKIP fallacies you buy into are true, then Germany should be pulling out of the EU before the UK. And, similarly, Scotland should be pulling out of the UK, etc.
Europe's top jobs 12:09pm on 28 Nov 2009 Dear Gavin, your obsession and one-track mindedness about a perceived Franco-British rift makes your article's paranoia level worth of some British tabloid, rather than the BBC.

Besides making me yearn for Mark Mardell's euroblog, it also fails to inform me about what's going on in Brussels.

I'm used to come here to get some information (not some paranoid Euro/Franco-phobic propaganda), but I'm afraid I'll start looking elsewhere.

As for your fears about the French taking over the City of London. I don't think there will be a rerun of Hastings of any sort.

In fact, the French (with the exception of Charles de Gaulle), if anything have been, among all EU members, the most accommodating to British whimsical attitude: Thatcher owes her "money back" to Giscard d'Estaing's idea of granting Britain a rebate and Blair's failure to join Schengen/Maastricht was supported as much as possible by Sarkozy.

I don't think Britain should be too worried about what the French can do to it. In fact, the source of Britain's current economic failure is not somewhere across the Channel, but somewhere across the Ocean. But, of course, blinded as usual by misplaced patriotism and a hereditary hate for things French, Britain's fate seems to be that of rejecting any good with usual knee-jerk reaction and the saga will go on...
Franco-German power 10:02pm on 26 Nov 2009 22. At 7:19pm on 25 Nov 2009, Freeborn-John wrote:

"The UK has significantly outgrown France and Germany over the last 20 years and has outperformed the Eurozone in each year of its existence other than this one."

You're a pathological case John! Don't you understand yet what Tony Blair knew all the way? Britain's economic growth in the nulabour decade or so (quite far from 20 years, mind you, remember 1992-95... the British economy was not precisely booming then) was based on fake money injection, via home-purchase loans and credit. This is the economic equivalent of hot air. It's all gone now, flushed down the pipes of economic history. Despite attempts by the City fat cats to recover some lost ground it doesn't look that the party is going to start soon enough. The UK taxpayer is now also stuck with a 20K debt per head on average. To understand this figure: 20K x 60M = 1.2 Trillion GBP of personal debt!!!

(More precise, and worse, figures for you to enjoy on http://www.creditaction.org.uk/debt-statistics.html)

Now you should subtract that from the growth in the last 20 years, and you'll realise the shabby state in which nulab's policies (building on the thatcherite ones) has gotten you into.

If British voters decide to leave the EU, as you seem to be wishing, the EU member states will be all too happy for this good riddance. The problem is that the EU cannot kick the UK out of the union. And most likely the UK government, with its staggering debt and inefficient economy, will stay stuck onto the Franco-German backbone for some time against the wishes of its electorate (not a first for a country known for disregarding the will of its people, e.g. Iraq war).
Franco-German power 9:32pm on 26 Nov 2009 2. At 2:11pm on 25 Nov 2009, Freeborn-John wrote:

"The consideration for the UK (alone) is rather different. We are not only are an important European power in our own right (we will be the most populous European country by 2050, and the largest European economy well before that), but we have a solid and trusted relationship with the USA that allows us an avenue for exerting an influence on world affairs which neither France nor Germany can aspire to."

Interesting.

You must have very solid data sources (is it a crystal ball or a cards that you're reading from?).

Can you give me a single example where the UK has influenced any of the US decisions in the last 65 years (basically since the UK has become a de facto vassal state the USA)?

As for the real world, it does look like Britain has a booming population, but its economy is falling down the ladder quite quickly and its not clear whether the boom in people will be enough to compensate.

I remember you predicting (crystal balls?) last year on this forum how the Eurozone was doomed and the UK would swiftly recover from the financial turmoil.

While your arguments are endearing, you systematically fail to note in your "analysis" that while Germany (and to some extent France and other EU countries like Holland, Italy and Spain to name a few) have a solidly diversified economy, Britain suffers from the Dutch syndrome whereby its once excellent industry has been completely dismantled, its agriculture is virtually non-existent (you hear about it only when the UK moans about the CPA) and it still relies on the discredited "financial sector". If the current trends continue, the UK will soon be the 4th, not the 3rd, economy in the EU behind Italy, which makes its relative population boom a liability rather than an asset.

Between a crystal ball and a wishful thinking session, I suggest you have a look at real world data as well: http://tinyurl.com/yk2cjsa and http://tinyurl.com/ydzj48t

Enjoy.
EU opts for Belgian leader 5:45pm on 23 Nov 2009 1. At 11:41pm on 19 Nov 2009, Freeborn-John wrote:

"But if, as seems likely, the UK renegotiates power back from the EU in the next 5 years then it is Van Rumpoy that will be on the other side of the negotiating table."

Ha ha ha! Do you still believe what Cameron says, after the latest U-turn. Dave must be laughing, at the naivety of the British electorate, that will crown him in 6 months time.

Of course, the renegotiating and power back will all be gone by then. The only way Britain can win power back (whatever that means) is to split entirely from the EU. But this amounts to economical (and political) suicide, because the UK is not Switzerland nor Norway and cannot afford to "just follow" what the EU dictates.

So just in case you wanted to live in a country that has won power back from Europe you should maybe immigrate to Canada, the USA, Australia or New Zealand which have all won their power back from Europe. And if you know Portuguese/Spanish you can try Latin America.
EU back to the future? 5:33pm on 23 Nov 2009 "It should be said that Van Rompuy does not arrive empty-handed. He is an effective mediator but he is not a communicator who can sell where Europe stands."

This is good, actually. Europe is quality design, it doesn't need selling. All it needs is representation, and not someone who will use their position to vaingloriously boost their ego.

What you call a Blair-like figure, would be doing a good selling job. Remember how Blair has been "selling England"? It's all gone and ended up in tears.

"The key for the French and Germans was not to have a Blair-like figure who might overshadow them. The laws of power have not changed by the signing of a treaty."

Of course the French and Germans lead the EU. As long as member countries will have such a heavy say they will do. Who do you expect to lead the EU? Luxembourg and Malta? Or Poland and Greece? Or the UK and Turkey?

Well, Turkey is not a member, but the UK could come forward and start working. I'm sure it will be considered more seriously if got down to some doing... rather than just trying to some "selling"...

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