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G0recki

Listed below are comments made by G0recki between Monday, 27th April 2009 and Monday, 27th April 2009.

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Children in detention at Yarl's Wood 6:33pm on 27 Apr 2009 It is an immigration issue. These people have harmed no-one, yet they are being treated like criminals. We can see the hostility towards migrants in some of the comments. These are the people who create the culture that justifies the appalling behaviour of the immigration officers. The only reason it has gone unnoticed in the past is because of this anti-immigrant sentiment. If a British child had been treated this way we would have been unanimously up in arms.
Children in detention at Yarl's Wood 5:50pm on 27 Apr 2009 I think jmdeee when he said "people who abuse children should be prosecuted" meant the immigration officers, not the illegal immigrant parents.

Side-point: Would the police investigate alleged criminal activity by immigration officers, or given the potential conflict of interest would it fall to the remit of the IPCC? Whatever your opinion on illegal immigration, I would hope we all agree that officials need to obey the law whilst upholding it. This affair adds of the wider debate about police accountability and trust.
Children in detention at Yarl's Wood 4:44pm on 27 Apr 2009 ManOfKent1

But my problem with illegal migration is that migration is illegal! I can argue for freedom of movement much better here. Also my family and friends are here, and I don't feel it is overcrowded where I live, so I'm happy here and don't want to leave.

But I'm not the one who wants restrictions on migration. You are. So suggesting that I migrate is rather contradictory.
Children in detention at Yarl's Wood 4:24pm on 27 Apr 2009 Thanks for replying, Hanny-Banany.

First, legal immigrants. I reject the distinction between legal and illegal immigration. So illegal immigrants become legal immigrants. So the perpetrators become the victims, and the perpetrators disappear. It is logically impossible for them to be victims.

Second, people in the UK. I can imagine that residents in areas that experience high levels of immigration would see their quality of life decrease. However I don't think they are victims. While they may see the roads becoming overcrowded, schools and hospitals oversubscribed, their liberty has not been infringed. Of course even if we closed our borders, this still happens due to internal migration. The north-to-south "brain drain" has contributed to overcrowding in the South-East, yet it would be unthinkable to limit this freedom of movement. If quality of life deteriorates too much, I support the right of people to move. This is of course the main (possibly only?) reason why migration of all forms occurs.

Thirdly, the children of illegal immigrants. Same answer to the first, really. Their parents actions shouldn't be illegal. That is my point.
Children in detention at Yarl's Wood 3:49pm on 27 Apr 2009 ManOfKent1

As you and your straw man know, I of course can't take responsibility for every currently illegal immigrant, just like you and I can't take responsibility for every legal citizen of this country. Unless we want to live under totalitarianism, humans need to be trusted to be reasonably autonomous. Foreign folk are no less autonomous.

I don't know how you can claim all illegal immigrants are unable to support their children. However I would agree it would be easier to support them if they were granted citizenship, so that they could work here legally, contribute to the economy, pay taxes and ensure that they aren't exploited by traffickers and unscrupulous employers.

All countries have a finite amount of space. Like I said in comment 13, if you feel this particular country is overcrowded, I support your right to move wherever you would feel more comfortable.
Children in detention at Yarl's Wood 2:58pm on 27 Apr 2009 Hanny-Banany, re "there are many victims of illegal immigration"

Who?

The only victims I can think of are the illegal immigrants themselves.
Children in detention at Yarl's Wood 2:51pm on 27 Apr 2009 Neilho

I most certainly don't see complete freedom of movement completely beneficial. But I do see it as completely fundamental. Free speech gives us the freedom to say non-beneficial things, however that does not mean we should be restricted in what we are permitted to say (I also reject the incitement to hatred laws). I don't doubt that public services and benefits would need to be reformed, and that you would need to earn the right to receive them, and this would therefore necessitate some form of administered citizenship (we need this anyway in order to collect taxes and allocate ballots). However citizenship should be available to all, no questions asked.

Shorter: Freedom of movement trumps public services.
Children in detention at Yarl's Wood 2:22pm on 27 Apr 2009 ProfessorPepper, re "the selfish desire of immigrants to come here without proper permission"

But they would not be granted permission, therefore are forced to act illegally. If wanting to make the most of your life is selfish, I guess we all are. It is also selfish desire that has created this insistence on granting permission to enter a country, purely for the convenience of its lucky citizens. However it is only this selfish desire that has direct victims.
Children in detention at Yarl's Wood 1:55pm on 27 Apr 2009 midori_no_saru

I reject the 'middle' option. Freedom of movement should be a human right. By placing any controls on migration, we divide people into eligible and ineligible, legal and illegal. However if these 'criminals' have done something wrong, show me their victim. We criminalise people on the arbitrary basis of where they were born for our convenience. While technically not racist, it has the same effect: discrimination and segregation on the basis of the circumstances of a person's birth. The effects of limiting migration are just as immoral as racial discrimination.

It is understandably emotive to hear of children being harmed by our government. But the broader picture is just as bad; we* shouldn't treat adults like this either.

It is understandable that immigrants prefer this country. We were incredibly lucky to be born here, and I suspect you would feel a great deal of injustice if you were forced to move to somewhere you do not wish to be for the convenience of others. If you feel this country has become overcrowded, I fully support your fundamental right to improve your life and move somewhere you feel happier.

* By the way, who do you include in your broad term 'we'? People from your street, your town, your county, England, Britain, Europe? Why?
Children in detention at Yarl's Wood 12:56pm on 27 Apr 2009 What a depressing situation. What have these children done to deserve such horrid treatment by our government? Their 'crime' is being born into unfortunate circumstances. Actually, it is the people who create these immoral migration laws for our own convenience who lack morality. By demanding the government to get 'tough' on these people, we are creating these inhumane outcomes. There is no just way of controlling migration.

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