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Matt Slater - BBC Sport

Listed below are comments made by Matt Slater - BBC Sport between Friday, 30th October 2009 and Wednesday, 18th November 2009.

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Triesman on trial as England expects 5:09pm on 18 Nov 2009 TommyO, I haven't read Foul but it's on my list. I've met Andrew J a couple of times and he is tremendous fun. He does stuff for Private Eye now and has his own website, which can always be relied upon for a funny story about Warner.

http://www.transparencyinsport.org/

I think he also knows Triesman from back in their student politico days.

You're right, Thom, Jack Warner is usually pretty close to wherever there are huge amounts of money washing around.
Triesman on trial as England expects 11:50am on 18 Nov 2009 Hi Jordan D, yep, you're absolutely right about Brazil and Kentaro, the Harlem Globe Trotters of world football don't play 'home' matches anymore, do they? Can't be right that. And it was the Trinidad trip I had in mind. Not that it appears to have done us much good at the moment. I stress "appears", though. Warner is playing a canny game.

LABSAB9, I agree. DB gets a lot of grief but you can't fault his willingness to pitch in for old Blighty when asked. Did a great turn in Singapore for the Olympics, too.

rjaggar, can't disagree with any of that. I was trying to strike a balance between holding Triesman et al to account for the mistakes that have been made, whilst pointing out that those mistakes haven't been as disastrous as the papers (and us) have reported, and then throwing the debate forward to the bit that really matters - the next 12 months.

Thoughtsonfootball, I share your concerns. When I think about the "golden decade of sport" we've been promised (and I have welcomed) it is the World Cup that SHOULD be the easiest to deliver and least bother. I think the Olympics will be great and get very annoyed with some of the nimbyish/defeatist nonsense I read about 2012, but I can understand where that comes from. I don't agree with it but I do see how people might think the Olympics are too expensive/irritating/big/only for London/whatever. But I don't buy that at all for the World Cup. When you think about the main criticisms of the Olympics none of those apply to the World Cup. The goodies will be spread around the country and the costs are relatively small, certainly in terms of public finance. We also know we can stage big global football events, we do it most weekends, and it is by far the most popular sport in the UK and abroad. My fear is that our luck cannot last: Olympics, Commonwealths, rugby world cups, Ryder Cups, Champs League, Cricket World Cup etc Is it too much to ask that we'll get a football World Cup too? Particularly when we know the the best technical bid doesn't always win?
Triesman on trial as England expects 5:44pm on 17 Nov 2009 OK, I'll give you that, Lucas is better than Jo.

Lee Holden, you're right, it is depressing. But it's all part of the game, I'm afraid. One small thing, though, I'm not sure if Becks is actually being paid £100k for the trip. The way I've heard it is that £150k is being spent on getting him there but that money is going on chartering a plane for him and his security staff, plus all the usual expenses and insurance costs. I also believe that the charter company are putting up most of that money...a good advert, I suppose.
Triesman on trial as England expects 4:16pm on 17 Nov 2009 What was the other one, BeyondThePale? Was it Lucas-related? Cheap shot, I know, but he isn't very good, is he?

dmrichkt, in a perfect world we wouldn't have to. But this is Warner's world and unfortunately he commands at least one and perhaps three World Cup votes. The funny thing about JW, though, is that I can see him voting for us in the end. All this moaning is just part of the process with him. His vote(s) will be up for grabs right up until the last minute. And then it will get very exciting if his "first" choice gets knocked out in the first round. We'll then see where his allegiance really lies.
What we can learn from Rooney, Dan Rooney 11:52am on 11 Nov 2009 Right, a new day and all that, I'll do 30 mins worth of replies, this time from bottom up.

captainlazytim (93) - Aren't you judging Obama's presidency a little early there? And I'm sure you're judging his impact on African-Americans' engagement with politics too soon. Fair comment on positive discrimination and final point.

ukray (92) - You and others are badly missing the point here. Sport/football is supposed to be meritocratic. In theory, most British males could have become footballers if they had the required athleticism, work ethic, luck etc If one section of society is over-represented in the football player population, good luck to them. Football management, however, is a closed shop. It is, by and large, open only to ex-footballers. Do you see the difference?

Odarroch (91) - Thanks, and I agree about coloured, pretty sure it is not the preferred term for the black community anymore either.

Rovers Return (90) - V good. And as I've said a few times now, I look forward to a time when this will all seem like a bad dream.

the78sum (89 and 88) - As Odarroch has pointed out, I think it's mixed race these days. As for your bigger point, no, obviously I can't give you any concrete examples (and neither can anybody else) as that would be illegal under existing equality in workplace legislation. So you don't need to take anything back. What I will say, however, is that the likes of Paul Davis, Les Ferdinand, Andy Preece, Viv Anderson, Andy Cole, Paul Ince, John Barnes, Keith Alexander, Earl Barrett and many more are on all the record talking about how hard it is to even get an interview, the sense that their managerial aspirations weren't encouraged as they were for white counterparts and a feeling that white ex-players were being fast-tracked into decent jobs that they could only dream about.

zeusfc (87) - Nice try but you're not following your own reasoning through to its logical conclusion. Why, if all other things are equal, aren't one in four jobs going to a black candidate? Your understanding of statistical probability seems a little shaky, I'd stay out of casinos if I were you.

wordsofwisdom (86) - Who is "brushing aside" inconvenient facts with "trivial acknowledgements", you or me? So a "high percentage" of black players are foreign, are they? OK, fair enough, but you have seen the England squad for the last decade, haven't you? And these black foreign players all go home, do they? What like Gianfranco Zola and Roberto Martinez? As for the "great many" I spoke to Chris Powell, Keith Alexander, Bobby Barnes, Hope Powell, Heather Rabatts and Paul Ince in person (Alexander and Ince are on the video), I also spoke to Kick it Out and consulted Dr Sue Bridgewater at the University of Warwick (where the FA does much of its coaching courses). She was very helpful with stats and interviews but does not seem to have published these any where on the web. She quotes the likes of Viv Anderson, Andy Preece, Brendan Batson, Paul Davis, Garth Crooks, Jason Lee, Earl Barrett. Is that enough for you? As for your final comment, gnothi seauton, my friend. I could say exactly the same thing about your refusal to acknowledge there is anything unusual about the huge disparity between the number of potential black managers (ie players) and the actual number of black managers.

luke (85) - The key thing to look at here is not the overall black population but the number of black footballers, as you or I are unlikely to get a job in football management without having been a footballer first.

rob (84) - I think and hope you are probably right.

ricardo johnson (83) - You make some interesting and sobering points. Thanks for posting. I'm particularly pleased you have taken the time to define "racism" properly. The distinction you make between racism and prejudice has certainly always been my understanding of it too.

haydn (82) - OK and you're more than entitled to that view. I share your desire for a society where the best person always gets the job. But I think we both know that doesn't happen, in football or anywhere else. I have simply tried to raise an issue that people in the black community are concerned about and ask what's happening, if anything, and can anything be done about it. I don't those kind of questions hurt at all.

That's more than enough on a day off. I will just leave you with a couple other bits of research I've just done now as I think they are pertinent to a number of criticisms this blog has received.

First, the average age of managers in the Premier League is 51. No real surprise there, it's the top of the tree and you would expect managers there to be more experienced. But in League Two, it's 46. Five years younger. So those guys were finishing their playing careers only a decade ago. And none of those managers, in either league, played in goal, a position not widely played by black footballers. So something to ponder.
What we can learn from Rooney, Dan Rooney 00:32am on 11 Nov 2009 Right, where was I?

Shammyowens (1) – Thanks and you’re right about Sir Les and Andy Cole is now at Huddersfield. I can’t speak for Ian Wright but the former pair have expressed frustration about a relative lack of opportunities to top managerial/coaching positions in the past.

Chocolateboxkid (2) – Can honestly say that the first I knew of The Guardian piece was after this was written, but it was a piece by Matthew Syed in The Times (and Paddy Barclay’s response to it) that planted the seed for my look at the subject. To answer your final question, Warwick Uni (where the FA does many of its coaching courses) says last year ago 20% of its Uefa B graduates were black and this year it was 12.5%.

NeonMoongod (3) – I think we agree, don’t we? But surely we haven’t become so sensitive about this issue that we can’t say there are black people and white people? I like your last paragraph, though.

Dss (4) – Yes, fair point. But even if half the black players in English football were non-British the discrepancy between black managers and black footballers would be pretty stark. And what it is stop non-British black players from becoming managers (like Gullit and Tigana, for example)? After all, the leagues are full of non-Brit white managers, many of whom played here.

Bullyboyblue (5) – Fair comment, you clearly know more about Ince’s Blackburn tenure than I do. But my memory of it is that he didn’t have a great deal to spend, started well, then lost Santa Cruz and Dunne, fell out with Bentley (not the first or last) and wheels came off. I remember thinking at the time, however, that he was under the microscope from the beginning and the mood turned against him pretty quickly. He feels this way too. And let’s not forget, he came with a great CV and is back doing a great job at MK again.

Rabster (6) – You’re right, I haven’t “actively consulted” lots of black ex-players but Kick it Out, the PFA and Warwick Uni have and I’ve spoken to them. Trust me, it is not just me who thinks the 3% - 23% gap is suspiciously wide. And I spoke to plenty of people at the Black List event at Wembley and I can promise you this issue is a major talking point for Afro-Caribbean people involved in football.

GreenGunner (7) – Yes, of course it has. I acknowledge the point in the piece. But black players have suddenly appeared on the scene, they have been growing in number since the late ‘70s. Those early pioneers are now far too old for starting out in management, as are most of those followed in early 80s. The fact is that first-time managers are now in their late 30s/early 40s so don’t tell me there isn’t a decent-sized pool of black managerial talent out there.

Adampsb (8) – According to the 2001 census, the black, or African-Caribbean, community makes up 2% of British population. The total ethnic minority population is about 8%. But I’m not sure this has much to do with what we’re talking about as football managers are not, by and large, recruited from the wider population. They are almost exclusively ex-footballers, so that is the crucial population to look at.

Rob Gray (9) – I’m not sure I understand your point. Are you saying that we shouldn’t talk about black managers when there are managers working in England from all over the world? If yes, why aren’t more of those managers black? As I said in the piece, I don’t the answer, I’m only asking.

Isacki (10) and (15) – Agreed. That’s why I lost my temper. We haven’t spoken since. And I’m glad to see somebody has got the connection between the total player population and the pool of talent from which managers are selected.

Norman Brownside (11) – Interesting. That is what I’ve been hearing too.

Stracepipe (12) – Why is it interesting that I object to being called a racist? I don’t consider myself to have racist views and was greatly annoyed when somebody with an agenda to shoot down a perfectly reasonable sports news story decided to play the race card and make threats about future access to players at his club. And what does your point about Oliver Brett have to do with anything? I’m glad you appear to agree with the main thrust of this piece but I’m sorry, I can’t account for why black players are over-represented in the football leagues in relation to their numbers in the overall population. I’m no sociologist or sports scientist, so I’ll pass on that one. But we’re talking about something very different here. Why black players aren’t following their white counterparts into management in similar numbers. And where do you get off making my arguments for me and then accusing me of racism because of it?!?

PulpGrape (13) – You’re right, it shouldn’t matter. I say it in the piece and so does Ince in the video. And I look forward to the day when we can say your second point with conviction. But to suggest I’m being racist and then accuse me of propagating PC propaganda shows a complete misunderstanding of the term racist.

Marshooetheimp (14) – News to me, if there was. Last time we did this was 2007 to my knowledge. And you know what? Nothing has changed in two years.

The78sum (16) – You’re right, that ain’t rocket science, and nothing I have written above contradicts your argument. I also agree things will look a lot different in a few years time. But would I be so relaxed about the future if I was, let’s say, a 37-year-old black footballer wondering what to do next?

Ghisared (17) – Good question and not one I’m particularly well qualified to answer. My guess would be that prospective managers from the black community would look up to the likes of Capello, Fergie, Mourinho and Wenger too, why wouldn’t they? But a black role model would resonate on a different level, the connection in terms of obstacles overcome would be stronger. I think this is probably part of the ethnic minority experience in societies that have, in the past, exhibited aggression/resistance towards you. White Anglo-Saxons don’t really need to “separate themselves” in a largely white Anglo-Saxon society (and yes, I know this is changing rapidly) but other communities might feel they need to shout about/ring-fence their achievements a little bit in order to make themselves heard.

Bellion- wonderland (18) – I’ve already answered this misconception that we should be thinking about the number of black players in 70/80s – it’s time to think more about the 90s. And why aren’t you asking the obvious question about why there are “nations that don’t produce many coaches”? Why do you think so many African nations are managed by Europeans? As for Ince playing the race card, I don’t he has. And I don’t think Barnes has either, certainly not in terms of his sacking. He was pretty upset he didn’t get any interviews after Celtic, though. As for Cole, he now appears to have changed his mind and I can assure you there are far more black ex-players who would love a crack at management but believe, for whatever reason, it won’t happen for them.

Phantomgorilla (19) – Good points, well made. Thanks for taking the time to actually read the piece.

Paul Hyde (20) – Sounds interesting and I can’t say I’m surprised. I think an old mate of mine did something similar at university on black rugby players.

Conky (21) – You’re asking all the right questions. All I can say is that a great many black ex-players feel they aren’t being given a fair chance at management/coaching. Most of them shy away from putting this down to out-and-out racism (correctly in my view) and blame old-fashioned career expectations, the reasonably understandable desire for people in power to appoint people they are most comfortable with or an unwillingness to take a chance on a new guy. The numbers would appear to bear this out.

Captainlazytim (22) – I don’t get it. Are saying having I asked the black community what they think? If yes, then, no, I haven’t asked each and every one of them. But I’ve asked a few and there is an overwhelming consensus: they’re annoyed about the disparity. As for your comment about me being a closet racist, I’m not sure what I can say (is this when I should bleat ‘but some of my best friends are black?!?). Fair enough if you don’t like affirmative action policies, I’m not sure I really like them either. But then I’m an idealist and sometimes society needs a kick in the pants. I believe this is what the Rooney rule has done for the NFL.

I’m starting to glaze over a bit now and I think I’ve answered most of the recurring questions.

I always knew this piece would provoke some heated debate and there’s nothing with that. I just wish we could all be a bit more honest and open-minded about issues like this because the sooner we learn to talk about them sensibly the sooner we can consign them to the past.

Anyway, thanks for reading/commenting.
What we can learn from Rooney, Dan Rooney 7:02pm on 10 Nov 2009 Evening all, just spent an hour of my life replying to your comments only to lose everything when I accidently hit 'back'. Must go home now, it's been a long day, but will re-post my replies as this blog has clearly sparked a lot of debate, much of it quite depressing.
Cycling's problematic pursuit of equality 11:47pm on 31 Oct 2009 Evening all, lots of great comments made in last 24 hours, a few final thoughts from me while I watch MOTD:

sportingnonsense (16) - Good shout re: Steven Burke, makes sense. Lizzie A, however, told me herself that she fancies the omnium and thinks that it suits her perfectly. Nothing wrong with a bit of self-confidence.

portodelpicassco (17) - I disagree with your first point but agree about AC.

buymeespresso (18) - You're welcome. If the author of a blog doesn't reply to comments it's not a blog. It's a feature/column with a message board attached.

riley ives (19/20) - Yep, I agree. They've lost the balance between the disciplines. Not good.

srminton (21) - Good point.

hughesinho (22) - Daft point.

asdfg101 (23) - Can't disagree with any of that. But am I being naive in thinking that the UCI would have sounded the IOC out about levelling things up WITHOUT going over 10 medals?

antagony (24) - Thank you, you've saved me making exactly the same point/argument. The Olympic movement should be taking a lead on this....letting women's ski jumping into the Winter Games would be a good start. For me it's a similar debate to equal prize money at Wimbledon. It might not make competitive or economic sense but it IS the right thing to do and will, in time, get you the result you're looking for, more depth and quality on the women's side.

noorwich (25) - Yep, you're right. It must be a balance. To use boxing as an example, there is no point going straight to eight weight divisions each. The depth on the women's side just isn't there yet and the boxing federation knew it, asking for five divisions and accepting three.

akaeyeeinstein (26) - I don't think anybody is suggesting that men and women should compete against each other. There's men's competition and women's competition. Two different things, with their own pros and cons, and both equally deserving of their place at an Olympics.

reaper of souls (27) - Yes, that's the balance/evolution thing again. I just think the IOC should be taking a lead on this issue, not waiting for others to act first.

megaspur (28) - Well spotted.

Hi_its_me (29) - Thanks and you're welcome. I agree with all of that!

tricky463 (30) - That's more like it! Let's clear some space in the schedule/village by getting rid of those sports that don't really need to be at the Olympics.

westmeadboy (31) - I think you're missing the point. Yes, in most sports, the best man will beat the best woman. So what? Why can't women compete on a more level playing field against other women? Why isn't that a valid contest? The bottom line is that women just aren't encouraged to take part in sport in the same way men are, and that's not right, fair or particularly good for society. The Olympics is the perfect forum to address this by setting a good example in terms of equality and creating role models for women to follow.

super_stevie_f (32) - Yep, I fear you might be right. And that is certainly what Hugh Porter told me last week. Who knows, though. The Olympic omnium might develop into something really special in time. I just wish they had kept at least one other distance event in there too.

Right, that really is it from me. Thanks for reading.
Cycling's problematic pursuit of equality 9:05pm on 30 Oct 2009 Some more replies:

lairdtim (5) - Yes, the individual pursuit and the 1500m are good comparisons. Definitely one for the traditionalists.

sportingnonsense (6) - I think your arithmetic is probably correct and more medals could have been added on the women's side without increasing the overall head count by a significant amount. After all, the IOC has allowed boxing to add two more medals overall (the three women's events, minus one men's division) providing the total number of boxers remained the same. I also agree that there should be a better balance between the sprints and the distance events, particularly as the omnium is very probably an event you have to concentrate all your energies on. I think the UCI is hoping it will emerge as a blue riband event in the velodrome a bit like athletics' decathlon: the winner will be recognised as the world's best all-rounder. I don't know. Only time will tell.

pariscyclist (7) - Good knowledge! 500 makes complete sense and reminds me that these problems have been brewing for the UCI for a while. Under pressure (from the manufacturers, sponsors, media, IOC etc) to freshen things up/keep the Games "relevant" they have added MTB and BMX in recent Games but have now run into what looks like an 18-medal limit, which ties UCI in third place with gymnastics and wrestling but still a long way behind the IAAF's 47 medals and Fina's 46. That doesn't sound like a fair reflection of cycling's growing popularity around the globe to me. And let's not forget that MTB is booming and will no doubt be wondering when it's going to get more medals.

chrislee_88 (8) - I like the madison too but only after I got to see it live. I don't think it really works on TV, not for the general sports fan anyway. Likewise the points race. And the scratch is like the distance events on the track...a bit dull. This, however, is no reason to scrap them. The Olympics are full of sports that don't exactly pack them in or attract massive telly audiences. That is often part of their four-yearly charm.

vcfsantos (9) - Thanks and I think you're right about Wiggo and Romero, who must now be a serious contender for the road time-trial.

jharrison5 (10) - Yes, I was thinking about that too. I don't know why the female pursuiters do four laps less...seems a bit odd in this day and age. But I guess the team pursuit being for only three riders, not four, is because of some concern about the depth of women's track cycling. And I suppose if that's the case then it makes sense the three riders would only do 12 laps (four-ish on the front each?) not 16. All seems very old-fashioned to me, though.

Gavelaa (11) - Erm...quite.

Willspray (12) - Bingo! I was wondering how long it would take for somebody to raise this point. I agree with you completely. Deciding which sports those are, however, is a different blog.

NormanNippy (13) - I'm hoping you're talking about the UCI/IOC and not the rest of us! If I'm right, yes, you could well be on to something there.

Good night all and thanks for reading
Cycling's problematic pursuit of equality 5:37pm on 30 Oct 2009 Evening all, a few quick replies from me before I head for home.

freddawlanen - I think you'd be on to something there with almost any other sport but track cycling is a bit of an exception. The programme has actually been criticised for being a bit light - 10 events over 5 days - particularly as most hosts have to build a new velodrome. Of course, this isn't completely the UCI's fault, it had to give up 2 events to get BMX in last time, and it has tried to stretch the programme so riders can double/triple up. So time isn't really a problem in the velodrome, especially if you compare the Olympic schedule to the World one. In fact, some have suggested that is why the UCI went for the omnium...it can run over five days and fill the gaps.

But on the broader point, I think the IOC would say they can't let one sport add a few medals/athletes because they would then have to say yes to every sport, and trust me, every sport wants more events.

Markp23 - Yep, you're absolutely right about those new events for athletics. I think that demonstrates the gulf in influence between the IAAF and the UCI. And thanks very much for so politely and subtly pointing out my misspelling of Armitstead. And is it definitely Lizzie not Liz? I've seen and heard both and she certainly answers to Liz.

Ian_the_chopper - Absolutely. I'd say we have excellent chances in all the new women's events. Not all bad at all!

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