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niclaramartin

Listed below are comments made by niclaramartin between Saturday, 3rd January 2009 and Sunday, 19th July 2009.

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Points of View Message Boards 8: More Numbers 1:12pm on 19 Jul 2009 Copied from the messageboard.....
"An example of the hit rate of the Green Room.
At this time (Sunday lunchtime) the posting rate on the LAST page of The Green Room thread is..
31 minutes ago
27 minutes ago
27 minutes ago
26 minutes ago
23 minutes ago
19 minutes ago
18 minutes ago
11 minutes ago
7 minutes ago
4 minutes ago
Just now
Just now

Now, let's look at the hit rate of another thread on Television Board...
Have picked the Dimbleby Thread as it has quite a few hits (others above it had NIL or very few postings, so I am trying to be fair here)
Last page of THAT thread, for IT'S hit rate...
Yesterday
Yesterday
Yesterday
Yesterday
23 Hours ago
23 hours ago
22 hours ago
21 hours ago
20 hours ago
1 hour ago
1 hour ago
1 hour ago
1 hour ago
11 minutes ago
2 minutes ago
So, I think that shows conclusively that a CHAT thread such as the Green Room (even on a Sunday at lunchtime) is getting far quicker hits than a thread which is receiving quite a good hit rate. (On the front page the Dimbleby thread was receiving the fifth highest number of comments, so WELL above average post rate)
I discounted the thread complaining about the state of the messageboards, (which *surprisingly* has received quite a lot of hits, but is not about TELEVISION), and chose the third highest thread relating to television, which I felt was being fair to the argument - by choosing a thread WELL ABOVE the average hit rate. EVEN choosing the Dimbleby thread you can see the complete difference in posting style/rate of a "normal" POV Television thread, and a CHAT thread."

No comment to make ON THIS blog.
Points of View Message Boards 8: More Numbers 12:28pm on 19 Jul 2009 Forgot to put the quotation marks around my second comment above, to indicate that I COPIED it from the message board.
Points of View Message Boards 8: More Numbers 12:26pm on 19 Jul 2009 Coming to his second argument, regarding the fact that WE were discussing the changes PRIOR to the changes and that THOSE postings would have pushed the hits up BEFORE his changes (and the figures he published), I think he forgets that there were probably only about a dozen of us, really "discussing" HIS "improvements" with him, (and that quite a lot of THAT discussion took place on his 6 or 7 Blogs - at HIS insistence). So, although it looked as if we were swamping the boards to discuss the changes (thereby giving a high PI), THAT was NOT the case. The discussion was SPLIT between the two places (messageboards AND blogs), and so, yes, I was typing a LOT of comments, but, by no stretch of the imagination were they confined to the message boards. WE discussed the "improvements" with Nick in both spheres (messageboards AND blogs).
However, once the facts were disclosed on the POV Television Board, THOSE posters (and there were a lot - some of whom have now left), did not go onto Nick's blog. THEY complained ON the Television threads regarding the "improvements".
SO, the situation is that Nick says OUR discussions forced the PI numbers UP prior to the changes, when in fact WE split our discussion (and PIs BETWEEN the message boards AND the blogs). BUT, AFTER the changes, the huge bulk of Posters to the Television board, ONLY posted on the messageboards (most saying that they didn't even know that there HAD BEEN a "discussion" PRIOR to the changes). THEIR comments would affect the PIs AFTER the changes, and were not split between the messageboards AND the blogs.
Points of View Message Boards 8: More Numbers 12:24pm on 19 Jul 2009 Thank you cricket... Just copying my response, from the messageboard thread, here in case Sarah closes the thread over on the messageboard, so that you can still discuss MY thoughts.

"Thanks for posting THAT wee nugget from Nick. I definitely find "interacting" with Nick by NOT speaking to him, much better than actually trying to discuss ANYTHING with him directly on his blogs"
"Coming back to Nick's comment about the flaw in my argument regarding The Green Room and OUR posting hits being higher during the "improvement" discussions, thereby forcing the PIs UP, I disagree with his answer.
He says that he doesn't think that the Green Room has affected the number of hits, but we know that to be untrue. If you give people a thread such as this, where we write quite long and (hopefully) well-thought out postings, you will get FAR fewer postings, than you would if you allow people a CHAT thread. You simply have to look at the speed with which the "regulars" respond to each other, on the Green Room to see the hit rate. A quick "How is the weather near you" is going to be quicker to compose and post than the ones we are writing, (especially if we are looking for links etc to support our arguments). So, NO, Nick I do not support your argument that the Green Room will not have affected the PIs.
I'll discuss the second part in my next posting (so as not to have too long a response)"
Points of View Message Boards 8: More Numbers 9:08pm on 17 Jul 2009 I'm not entering into THIS discussion with Nick HERE. I am over on the Messageboards where Messageboarders should be allowed to discuss their boards. I am only copying posts on THIS topic from the board over to here, without even bothering to read the comments on THIS blog.
"With regard to this new attitude Nick (and Rowan and Sarah) have developed towards quality and acceptable style of comments, I have been wondering for a wee while WHY they introduced the Green Room, when we have been told consistently SINCE Points Askew closed that there were lots of CHAT forums elsewhere and that BBC were not going to provide THAT aspect of messageboarding. They used the argument that the Graf Report encouraged them to only do things which could not be found elsewhere on the worldwide web. They wanted us to focus on COMMENTING and not CHATTING. And, then, along comes Nick and Rowan and Sarah, and lo and behold we ARE allowed to chat.
BUT, having seen Nick's skills in fudging the statistics, it now becomes obvious WHY we ARE being allowed a CHAT forum within BBC POV Messageboards. They keep the PIs up....... for now.
Now, what's the betting that in six months from now, when Nick has distanced himself TOTALLY from the "improvements" debacle, that a directive comes out that we MAY NOT CHAT, and that the Green Room will be closed. "
Points of View Message Boards 8: More Numbers 8:48pm on 17 Jul 2009 Said that I wouldn't post over here, but Sarah is closing threads on OUR messageboards over there, so I have posted a new discussion on BBC's treatment of it's messageboarders which I expect will also be closed. I decided to post THE FOLLOWING part of one of my postings here, as no doubt Sarah will continue with the scourge of the messageboards.
"For the record, having read his figures, something which is not being addressed is the quick-fire commenting on the Green Room Thread, which by itself, must be contributing quite a lot to Nick's Board "hits". Any "chat" thread will always produce lots of activity, and the Green Room is no exception. By my recollection, there was no Green Room thread, (or anything similar last April!!!!!)
www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mb...

I can't find the link to Rowan's previous Green Room thread, but, it was started after November I think, and it too had thousands of hits.
SO, if Nick is choosing to present figures on the basis of April 08 and April 09 (a bit cheeky that), then the two Green Room threads are contributing quite a lot to the ethos of quick-fire (and often) posting which we see (but only really on those sort of threads). Posters can see for themselves that the number of posters/quality of postings/diversity of postings have DECREASED, SINCE NICK'S IMPROVEMENTS.
Also, as a result of Nick's consultation with us, we have been banging in loads of comments (clever that, to use OUR own arguments AGAINST his "improvements" to count in his argument that the PIs have hardly dropped. For the record, Nick, I don't know about the others, but I have never posted as much as I was during your "open dialogue". So, if you level the playing ground, by acknowledging that the BBC board has been receiving a lot more hits than it usually got, partly due to the volume of comments AGAINST the "improvements", and also, acknowledge that the Green Room Chat threads are receiving well-above normal commenting (due to the chatting aspect and the quick-fire chatty commenting), then Nick's "hits" would not be anything like as acceptable. Funny that we kept being told that we are not a CHAT forum , BUT I bet Nick is VERY thankful for the Green Room.
As I say, cheeky way to present figures (so that you can give the best picture possible of the "improvements")
Suppose I WILL HAVE to copy this comment over to his blog, so that it is kept somewhere as Sarah will no doubt continue with the scourge of Messageboards by CLOSING this thread on BBC'S TREATMENT OF MESSAGEBOARDERS"

And, I have to say, Nick DIDN'T close THIS blog for posting IMMEDIATELY (as I said he would). NO, we have until Monday. Whoopdedooooo So full discussion of the statistics. (doh smiley) Or, just what we have become accustomed to.
Points of View Message Board 6: November Numbers 1:38pm on 02 Apr 2009 Russ

Excellent points. I said that I wouldn't comment on Nick's blogs again, BUT, having read your postings, I felt I must congratulate you on well-reasoned and well-presented arguments.

And, I loved your analogy on Martin's blog, to the Newspaper circulation and Letters Page. Simple, but, killer.
Points of View Message Board 5: Summary of Meeting With POV programme and BBC Vision 10:49am on 04 Feb 2009 With thanks to jtemplar for finding this article in the Guardian, where Nick REALLY seems to be telling us what is going to happen.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/pda/2009/feb/03/bbc-web20?showallcomments=true

If this article is factual, there really is nothing more to be said to Nick, but PLENTY to be said elsewhere (as Jem suggested).
Points Of View Message Board 3: Football or Rugby? 1:06pm on 06 Jan 2009 Not going to join in with Nick on this blog any more, but thought I would point you guys in the direction of the following link (dated October 2007)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2007/10/how_much_blogging.html

Message 29 in particular is saying what we have said about blogs.
Points Of View Message Board 3: Football or Rugby? 11:36am on 03 Jan 2009 Happy New Year everyone (well the three of us contributing to this blog - sorry Nick, not exactly setting the boards alight is it)

You say.....

"I'm trying to keep an open mind. But at the moment I'm afraid I rather agree with WombatDeath who says:

...there are much better tools (blogs, market research etc) which can - and presumably are - employed to gather feedback in a more focussed and less chaotic manner"

I think, what we messageboards have said over and over, is that the response to the vast majority of blogs, is, unbelievable poor. A quick skim over previous blogs shows a HUGE number of blogs (which as I say, must have taken time to create), receiving NIL/NONE/ZERO/ZILCH/NADA/NOTHING in the way of comments. I would say that is a sign of a VERY VERY poor tool for receiving feedback.

The problem is that BBC have NEVER developed a rapport with THEIR messageboarders, where they could tap in on the massive number of posters who visit the messageboards, as opposed to the far smaller number of posters to blogs.

In other words, BBC are the ones who are NOT utilising the thoughts of their viewers properly.

As you have seen from these blogs you simply had to say "Messageboards" and you had a huge influx of postings (I don't think you were prepared for that, given that you hid the link away on an obscure board).

I think what you will now find is that the messageboarders WILL NOT be coming over to your blogs, as they have tasted it, and do not like it, much preferring their messageboards, so why would they wish to contribute to YOUR blog, when they can't stand blogs (I don't think I am exaggerating the hatred of blogs for messageboarders).

So, BBC COULD, if they focused some threads, receive phenominal input from viewers/messageboarders (at minimal cost, unlike market research), and far more responses than you will EVER get to blogs.

Therefore, I totally disagree with you and Wombatdeath. For the simple reason that the messageboards are where the viewers are/ receive massive input (too much for BBC to handle I think)/ they are very vocal in commenting/and BBC HAVE NOT worked out how to utilise this massive group of viewers to furnish information, seemingly determined to force messageboarders over to YOUR blogs and away from OUR messageboards.

As I say, I think these three blogs have shown the strength of feeling/love of messageboards. The three blogs also show that messageboarders will not be coming over to talk to you on YOUR blogs (they hate the whole concept and layout). If BBC would set up a subsection on the messageboard and ask for focused responses to set questions (overseen by a staff member/market researcher, the way blogs have a single author, then I am certain BBC would receive amazingly good responses). Try it for a while and see how it goes.

As for myself, this is my last posting to blogs, because, like the other messageboarders, I really DO NOT like them. I detest the layout, the scrolling up and down, the lack of definition between posters, the poor response - waiting for ONE person (the author to come back) meaning that the blog stalls (unlike messageboards which continually move along), and .......... well just EVERYTHING.

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